WEBVTT - SpaceX Soars On Third Trading Day, Seals Cursor Takeover 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:20.640 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.480 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. SpaceX continues to rocket, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.080 eclipsing Amazon in value this as it lands it's sixty 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.160 billion dollar takeover of Cursor, plus Anthropic meets with US 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.320 officials to resolve a national security dispute with the Trump 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.879 administration over its most advanced AI models and Sequoia partner 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.800 SpaceX investor and AI thinker Sean maguire, on set in 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.120 San Francisco, is to go deep on the Cursor deal 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.480 and Orbital Data centers. Tuesday, June sixteenth, twenty twenty six, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.120 SpaceX its third day of trading in the public markets, 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.800 and it continues to soar. It's all about valuation in 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.760 the here and now. We are currently on track for 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.960 SpaceX to eclipse Amazon in market value. It's been a 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.160 volatile session. One point, the stock up seventeen percent and 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:16.319 in just a brief moment, eclipse Microsoft in terms of 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.080 its market value in the moment. Indeed, but here's the thing. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.000 When you think about SpaceX's relative value too Microsoft or Amazon, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.720 there's a catalyst in the news cycle, and that is 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.080 it will move forward with a sixty billion dollar deal 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.160 for Cursor in the AI coding space. Let's get the 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.520 details on that deal with Blimbox and Attasha Mascarinus, who 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.280 covers AI and venture and here with us in SF 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.720 Let's start with the details the structure. There's also the 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.240 idea that in April they had the right to acquire 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.400 a Cursor just days after the going public they. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.120 Are exactly, I mean, in April weys our first of 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.600 its kind announcement an agreement to have the option to acquire. 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.360 Now we have the news that they are moving ahead 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.040 with the agreement and they will plan to acquire Cursor. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.240 It's going to be for that price tag that we expected, 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.920 a sixty billion dollar implied valuation, and the Cursor investors 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:09.760 will be getting stock as a. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:11.120 Result of it, SpaceX stock. 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:12.560 Sorry, SpaceX stock as a result of it. 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:13.119 Exactly. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.600 So there's a big question here about like, well, who 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.760 wins on the Cursor side. Cursor has been active in 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.440 raising money in recent years. They had a lot of momentum. 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:25.360 You have a pretty good understanding of who's on the 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:26.079 cat table there. 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:27.679 Yeah, I mean, this has been one of the most 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.720 explosive AI companies outside of open an Anthropic. If you 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.320 ask me this is the number one other company I've 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.679 been focused on for the past year. We think about 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.200 the biggest winners from this deal when the deal does close, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.920 which is expecting in a few months, it's actually some 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.480 of the same investors for SpaceX. Unsurprisingly, two of the 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.960 biggest investors in Cursor are Thrive Capital and Injuries and 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.080 Horowitz and you know last week we heard them celebrate 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.720 as well when it came to the SpaceX IPO. And 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.880 so Thrive is expected to have a stake worth north 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.880 of ten billion according to sources. When we think about 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.080 the SpaceX and Cursor combination, and Andresa, you know, heading 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.760 into this, had about six billion worth of stake in Cursor, 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.440 and so another kind. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.760 Of they already reported that, you know, for Indreeson on 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.360 the SPACEXIPO, this would be the biggest payoff in the 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.480 in the firm's history. Let's go to the AI bit 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.720 of it. I think Elon Musk has been pretty honest 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:25.600 that in the coding space XAI had been behind your anthropics, 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.440 your open AI is even what is SpaceX doing with Cursor? 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:30.400 What's the plan here? 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.040 Yeah, I mean people forget that SpaceX actually merging with 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.800 XAI is still a recent move. Yeah, I mean the 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.800 ink is still you know, drying on that one. But yeah, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.400 I mean, listen, it's the same goal. Elon wants to 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.120 strengthen their AI talent Cursor. I mean, when I was 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.920 first writing about Cursor, they were bringing on people to 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.160 their office for two weeks before they made an acquisition, 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.240 before they made a hiring offer, and so they really 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.000 spent a huge amount of time in recruiting the best 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.920 AI talent in samp and Cisco, building a very unique 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.320 kind of culture. And now Elon Musk is getting you know, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.480 that highly vetted talent as he looks to make SpaceX 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.960 ANAI company, and so there's a lot of interest in 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.240 the talent. We'll see if all people do come on 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.480 as a result of the acquisition, but it's hundreds of 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.520 employees joining the spacexta. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.640 And even before spacexxai closed there was high turnover at XAI. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.240 They had people departing from the founding group, et cetera. 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.760 Bloe miss and attached Miss Garinus on the Cursor deal. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.039 Let's get more in SpaceX's surging valuation in the public markets. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.320 Bloomberg Equities reported common Rhinikey joins us with the latest, 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.719 so right now on track to eclipse Amazon. You and 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.760 I have been talking all morning about price to sales ratios, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.040 and then there's the volatility in the session itself. Explain 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:43.360 it all. 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.120 Yeah, So there are two things that are really important here. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.360 The first one is that we have really low float 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.960 actually trading for SpaceX. We know it is about five 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.000 percent or less than five percent of total shares became 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.320 available in the io. That can make trading very volatile interday, 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.200 and it can elevate stock prices because there's just not 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.560 that much float on the market. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.520 So that can elevate the stock price. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.760 But then the total shares outstanding, even ones that are 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.200 locked up right now, is what's used to calculate the 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.720 market cap, so it can sort of elevate things there. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.240 The second thing you brought up price to sales. This 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.160 is so important to think about. So SpaceX at about 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:23.159 two point seven trillion valuation right now, it's alongside Amazon 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.960 and Microsoft. But the total amount of revenue that SpaceX 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.440 is bringing in tells a very different story. So last 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.960 year in twenty twenty five, SpaceX had about nineteen billion 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.560 dollars in revenue and Microsoft, in comparison, had two hundred 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.960 and eighty one billion dollars in sales, So that's a 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.880 huge difference. It's about fifteen times more than SpaceX, even 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.800 though they're valued right now based on market cap at 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:48.080 a roughly the same. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.600 It's come Rhini case SpaceX up for a third day 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.120 a lot to factor in. Thank you, Franklin Templeton BACKSPACEX 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.880 long before it's IPO. Really interesting private public market and 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.599 esther in the tech space here in the Bay Aria 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.000 Sarah Rahi Franklin Timmeton, portfolio managers with us. It's so 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:07.159 great to have you on the program. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:08.360 Great, thank you for having me. 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.800 Timing is everything right. Let's start with the Cursor deal, 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.040 if we may. So, we knew that this could happen 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.719 because they had the right to acquire Cursor. They stayed 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.680 in April, but they've moved very quickly, you know since 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.279 since the IPO on Thursday Friday. What is it that 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.000 you think SpaceX gets with Cursor? What do you think 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:26.800 they intend to do? 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.440 Yeah, you know, the company has been very clear that 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.880 they want to have a role in the AI space 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.039 and that they want to be one of the competitors 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.640 within that space. And so with GROC they have the 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.080 opportunity here and now with the Cursor team, as you 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.839 were just talking about earlier, they acquihire a team here 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.960 that they can ultimately come in and potentially give them 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.359 a chance with the competitors in the space. So I 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.359 think it's brilliant. You have the successful IPO and the 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.800 ability to come in and do this deal right on 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.120 day three now. 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.400 So pretty big aquire, Pretty big acquire. 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:01.640 I mean the mechanics of that I find really interesting 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.600 because SpaceX's valuation, actually it's valuation today relative to Friday, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.680 it's a bit of an advantage right in an all 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.520 stock deal. How do you feel about it? You know, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:16.360 the mechanism a sixty billion dollar deal right now in 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.800 how that impacts the stock as an existing investor. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.200 Yeah, look, we were already we knew this was going 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.440 to come, right, and so the fact that it's coming 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.520 now it makes sense. With the fact that this IPO 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.560 was very successful. I mean, they've done a fantastic job. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.000 The Bankersterer, Goldman, Morgan Stanley did a great job bringing 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.560 this to the public markets. It actually opens up the 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.720 public markets for other deals to come and so it 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.680 makes a lot of sense for them to do this 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.640 cursor deal here now and ultimately take advantage of their 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:43.239 stock price. 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.240 Do you mind if we talk a little bit about 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:50.760 Franklin Tumbledton's history with SpaceX. You know, maybe viewers of 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.680 Bloomberg Tech will be a little bit more familiar of 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.080 kind of like the mutual funds and private growth teamams 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.800 participating in a lot of the themes we cover. Franklin 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.640 Tumbleton's name that comes up, but just how you got 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.800 in and the journey now to being a public holding 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:05.040 in the. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.600 Funds, Yeah, definitely. So I am. 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.680 I work on a team, the Franklin Equity team at 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.120 Franklin Templeton and here. Over a decade ago, we decided 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.800 that it was time for us to invest in private companies, 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.440 not only through our mutual funds, but also we have 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:21.680 dedicated venture. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:22.960 Vehicles within our group. 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.680 And the reasons we did this was, as you've been 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.960 talking about, the companies have been staying These companies have 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.240 been staying private longer, so a lot of the value 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.800 creation was happening within the private markets. Well, we have 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.120 we have, we are based in Silicon Valley, we have 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.560 the same capabilities, and so we decided we should not 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.280 only take advantage of that and generate the returns and 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.400 bring those to our shareholders, but also the insights that 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.600 you get from investing in these companies, both from just 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.680 investing in the companies and themselves and a successful IPO 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.960 here you saw with SpaceX, or just the insights and 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.000 is disruption coming to some of our existing holdings, and 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.360 how do we think about the market leaders in the 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.679 space and whether or not whether or not these private 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.959 companies will overtake them. So those insights our analysts benefit 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.520 from that. So this is something you know with SpaceX. 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.200 We knew them when they were doing reusable rockets for 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.800 cargo ships, but knowing them over time. Our team met 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.720 with Elon in twenty sixteen, I mean even prior to 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.000 that with Tesla, right, but with Elon on SpaceX and 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.680 understanding what he was going to do here, having that faith, 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.160 and then learning from him about AI, infrastructure, defense, space, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:32.440 the space economy. 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.120 It's been an incredible journey for us. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.560 You make a lot of interesting points about how things 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.520 have changed. The story started with reusability and the economics 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.599 of reusability, and now it's something very different. If you 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.080 just got on the TAM and the perspectives, but also 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.240 like the public market investor view, like what is the 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.640 proxy that you look at? I think we're in a 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.160 space now where we're moving outside the mag seven Yes, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:55.800 but like if it was in the software space, you go, okay, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.280 this is a private company where I see a proxy 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.440 in the public market SpaceX. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:01.440 We don't have anything like it. 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.840 And look, it's been a huge discussion on what industry, 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.320 how is gigs going to classify this? Is it going 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.040 to be in the telecom industry, is it going to 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.280 be in industrials. We started out thinking it would be 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.600 an industrial entity and what our share investor is going 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.920 to be selling to buy this, but ultimately you ended 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.280 up it's now classified under communications. And look, our analyst 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.480 covering it has to understand AI has been working very 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.680 closely with our tech team, has to understand defense, has 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.560 to understand space. A new economy here, and we're all 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.760 still just learning more and more about that. I mean, 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:35.000 it's a new frontier. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:36.760 Let's bring it back to the news of the day 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.000 in the Cursor deal. You know a lot of people 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.920 will focus on this the very sort of specific upfront 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.559 coding story, but there is a story with the models themselves, 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.800 and I just wonder how much you assign value to 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.080 GROC and the future opportunity of GROC over At Franklin. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.720 Templeton, Yeah, look, you don't. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.720 The way we think about it is just starlink alone 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.600 brings a lot of value for SpaceX and a lot 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.400 of their endeavors with an AI. A big part of 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.120 it is funding some of that and you know cash 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.000 generation from cash generation, and look, Elon has talked about 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.960 this from day one. Gwinn talks about it. They want 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.839 to go to Mars. They're doing everything in their power 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.400 to make us multiplanetary. That Their goal here is to 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.960 get there, whether it's GROCK and AI AI infrastructure. You 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.440 saw them doing deals with anthropic generating revenue here. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:25.559 Today to get to that goal. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.240 Anything that can get them on that path I think 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:29.360 is the right move for them. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.520 Sarah Rahi, Franklin, Templeton, Davy On, Bloomberg Tech. It's so 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.800 great to have you here in Essa. Thank you very much. 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.000 An update on the story brought yesterday in Video's bond sale, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.040 the AI chip Giant sold twenty five billion dollars in 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.960 investment grade debt, making it one of the largest corporate 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.560 bond deals of the year. Investor demand was strong, with 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.439 orders topping eighty five billion dollars according to sources, and 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.920 video joins companies like Alphabet and Amazon flooding debt markets 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.720 with hundreds of billions of dollars of issuance as they 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:03.280 build data centers, another infrastructure needed for AI's rapid expansion. Okay, 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.360 coming up anthrop it meets with US officials is IT 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.520 tries to resolve a national security dispute with the Trump 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.840 administration over it's most advanced AI models. We have more 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.120 on that next, this is Bloomberg Tech. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.160 There are some players who are more trustworthy than others. 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.720 What I think needs to happen is that the trustworthy 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.600 actors need to need to get together and put the 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.600 untrustworthy actors in a position where they kind of have 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.880 to adopt the same standards. With a lot of experience, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.760 I've learned that there are some folks who don't do 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.680 the right thing on their own. But if there's a 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.440 majority of the industry that's doing the right thing, then 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.840 I think the rest of the industry is kind of 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.600 they're left in a position where there's not much they 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.760 can do that then come along. 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.360 That was Anthropic CEO Dario Ammo Day they're in late April, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.760 weighing in on accountability in the AA industry and now 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.360 and topics, trying to work through a growing dispute with 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.920 the Trump administration about concerns on foreign access to its 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.479 most advanced air models, which led to the company temporarily 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:16.520 suspending global access. Senior technical staff met with Commerce Department 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.080 officials on Monday, as talks continued as Mike Sheppard joins 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.800 us from DC, Sheep bring us up to speed. What 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:23.440 do we need to know? 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.040 Well, what we need to know is this that there 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.960 so far is very little public sign of progress and 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.319 discussions between the government and Anthropic. The senior technical step, 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.840 as you said, did sit down with US officials, but 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.640 there has really been no evidence of a breakthrough, no 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.560 evidence of really what remedies the company might need to 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.640 pursue with the government's behest to solve this security issue, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.960 and we don't even really have a fully clear picture 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.400 from the US government side of what that is. The 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.920 company has pointed to this jail break concern the idea 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.679 that Garbrails on its Feeble five system could somehow be evaded, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:09.080 empowering that software into something that approaches the cyber security 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.520 capabilities of Mythos, and all of this is unfolding at 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.920 this time of great urgency in the AI race. For 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.480 the US, of course, the question is will it maintain 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.120 its lead over China, and Anthropic, of course, is one 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.280 of the top developers, plays such a crucial role in that. 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.440 And then just add to it all the billions, if 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.920 not trillions of dollars in capex that we are seeing 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.840 poured toward this sector by different companies, not only Anthropic 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:40.320 but the public tradedly publicly traded ventures as well, the SPACEXIPO. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.040 So much of that money is going to support the 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.520 infrastructure needed to run top flight models like Mythos and Fable, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.080 which right now are off the market. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.120 The COMMAS Department put in an export control Friday which 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.280 basically blocked foreign national access to Mythos and Fable, and 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.120 Anthropics response was like, well, in that case, we'll take 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.920 it offline for every because we can't on a case 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.880 by case basis check user status and many of their 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.920 own employees are foreign nationals. But there is something broader 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:15.720 here in Anthropic and industry's relationship with the administration. Where 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.920 do we stand in that the litigation, the designation on 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:20.840 supply chain risk. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.880 Well, this is just the latest flare up between Anthropic 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.960 and the administration really since the start of the year. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.000 You're referring, of course, to the dispute right now with 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.080 the Pentagon over the company's ability to continue providing the 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.920 military with access to its sophisticated AI tools. There's a 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.200 clog gov AI tool that was approved for classified use 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.120 by the military and in fact have been deployed as 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:51.080 part of the US war effort against Iran. Now, the Pentagon, 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.920 in this dispute with the company, has really fixed on 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:58.040 what Anthropic has demanded as two conditions of being able 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.080 to continue its Pentagon work, and that is it once 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:06.760 guarantees that there will be no surveillance supported by CLAUDE 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.560 and that there will be no fully autonomous weaponry. Now 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.720 the government says that, look, we won't do either of 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.920 those things. Those extra conditions are way too much, and 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.000 that just presages a lasting few between these two sides 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.320 unless they can reach some sort of an agreement here. 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.560 And begs Mike Shephard, thank you very much. As Washington 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.240 wrestles with AI security concerns at home, the technology is 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.040 also taking center stage at the g seventh summit in France, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.480 where global leaders and AI tech executives and meeting this week. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.000 Manibas Tyler Kendall joins us like from Evion France. And 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.720 there's the story on the Bloomberg this morning about how 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.960 US Western allies are now taking into account this Commerce 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.960 Department decision with Anthropic. How's that playing out on the ground. 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.200 Well, And I actually had the chance to catch up 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.360 with the spokesperson for France's Foreign Ministry who told me 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.800 that the Trump and Administration's moves here that you've been 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.399 outlining just underscore the need for European allies to have 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.440 what he called, quote strategic autonomy when it comes to tech. 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.399 It is no doubt going to be a focus here 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.000 on the ground as these world leaders, including President Trump, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:17.520 are going to be in the same room with some 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.360 of these top tech CEOs, including from Anthropic as well 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.200 as Open AI. And in fact, earlier today Bloomberg News 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.200 was able to obtain a draft statement related to this 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.359 meeting that is set to take place tomorrow, which says, 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.280 in part that the leaders are expected to pledge to 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:38.200 quote further discuss emerging opportunities and potential risks arising from AI, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.720 notably in the financial sector. It is definitely going to 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.000 be a theme here going forward. At G seven official 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.960 tells me that that meeting tomorrow will also focus on 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.600 potential regulations that all of these G seven allies could 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.640 come together on, as well as respecting individual countries regulations 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.560 when it comes to the tech and ed Another thread 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.000 that we're watching very closely here is that just yesterday 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.800 President Trump threatened a one hundred percent tieriff on France 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.080 over the use of its digital services tax. This has 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.439 been something that the Trump administration has long lobbied criticism 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.240 against European allies about. I had the chance to ask 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.640 the French spokesperson about this. He did confirm that there 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.840 are ongoing discussions about the DST, but he said that 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.800 this is not a moment for quote antagonism. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.400 Most Tyler Kendall and Avian France the G seven, thank 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.240 you very much. Another story we're watching in AI open 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.600 AI's losses ballooned last year as the company poured money 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.720 into the AI race. The Financial Times reports the chat 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.240 GBT maker spent more than thirty four billion dollars on research, 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.800 marketing and other expenses. In twenty twenty five, driving an 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.280 eightfold increase in net losses. Open Ai did not comment 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:50.040 on the Financial Times report. Data briggs Is Data Summit 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.840 twenty twenty six is underway in San Francisco, as the 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.399 software maker competes with Snowflake and Google. It's launching new 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:01.439 enterprise AI products including Genie one, Gentic co worker for 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.439 business teams, and Unity AI gateway that helps businesses control 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.680 their costs. Talent is proving the biggest expense for them, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.520 but the companies yet to tap the public markets this 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.280 year amid other blockbuster tech listings. Is what CEO Ali 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:16.520 Gazi told us yesterday. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.320 So well, you know, we're not We've not said that 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.399 we're doing any fundraise. I know that there's you know, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.200 rumors about this, but we're always talking to investors. Why well, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.960 we're investing heavily into these new product categories. We just 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.200 launching a completely new product for ours that's called Customer 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.119 Lake which is an area of marketing, so we're you know, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.920 targeting marketing folks, which is not an area where we. 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.199 Used to be active. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:41.679 You know. 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.200 Two months ago we launched a security product called lake Watch. 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:46.639 And we're getting into a security space. 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.120 You know, it takes resources to get into these spaces 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.240 and all of these products that I mentioned, we're building 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.360 it agentic first, so it's like they start with agents 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:56.359 from the ground up. 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.400 We're not boulting it on. That requires that. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.960 You have AI researchers, as we all know, AI researchers 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:03.040 you know, don't come cheap. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.000 So all this requires funding. 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.639 So we're always in talk with investers, you know, to 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.240 be able to just be aggressive and expand and launch 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.040 new products, do research, you know, go to more. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.399 Regions, be available in every part of the world. 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.960 So you know, that's that's that's why we're you know, 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:18.800 require capital. 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.119 Allie, let's let's end it here. Earlier this month you 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.880 told me, you know, Data Bricks in the end will 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.280 be a public company. You want to be a public company, 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.840 but that you think this is just a terrible year 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.439 to go public. Do you stand by that. Has anything 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.960 changed in your mind in the last two weeks. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:37.840