1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. This is a 2 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: story about well, it's a story about a bunch of stories, 3 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: wild stories, stories too wild for mainstream storytelling. Stories the 4 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: corporate studios wouldn't dare tell stories the algorithms will suppress. 5 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: These are stories about the most interesting musicians for music history. 6 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: And there's stories about musicians and true crime. These are 7 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: Disgraceland stories. And this is a revealing look into the 8 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: lives and transgressions of the musicians that we love, which 9 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: means that it's a story about great music. Unlike that music. 10 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: I've played few at the top of the show that 11 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from my 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: melotron called Brubeck and MK one. I played you that 13 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: loop because I can't afford the rights to whatever the 14 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: hell it is that is number one on the charts today. 15 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: And why would I play you that specific slice of 16 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: modern cheese if I could afford it, Because today is 17 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: the day that I take you behind the scenes of 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: the upcoming season of Disgraceland. On this episode, we preview 19 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: our stories on Lady Gaga, MIAs Apoda and the Gets, 20 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders and more. I'm Jake Brennan in this as 21 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: a special behind the scenes look into the next season 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: of Disgraceland. All right, guys, I'm trying something new today. 23 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: In the past, we used to only release twenty four 24 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: episodes per year, and we could have seasons of Disgraceland 25 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: in four. Each season, i'd make an announcement and reveal 26 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: which artists we were recovering, and we'd all discuss online 27 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: all those cases, and you know which other artists you 28 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: guys wanted covered in upcoming seasons. But ever since we 29 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: evolved our release schedule a couple of years ago to 30 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: being always on, there really aren't any seasons anymore. It's 31 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: kind of just one big, ongoing season, which, if I'm 32 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: being honest, kind of took from me one of the 33 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: things that I really liked about Disgraceland, which was having 34 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: the space to announce and discuss the upcoming subjects. So 35 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna do here today, and we're gonna 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: do it four times a year, every quarter. But it's 37 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: gonna be more than an announcement. It's going to be 38 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: a behind the scenes look at the show, a discussion 39 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: on the artists and the crimes and the production of 40 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: the stories that we put together. This conversation is going 41 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: to happen at first between Zeth and I, and then 42 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: we're going to bring in all of you as well, 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: and we're going to give you a peek into how 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: we choose these subjects. Now, you can also help you 45 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: a part of this selection process us in more of 46 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: a formal way on Patreon, and as we get into 47 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: the formal selection of these artists throughout the year, we'll 48 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: give you guys who aren't Patreon All access members. Well, 49 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: like I said, we'll give you a peek into that 50 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: process right here in these behind the scenes episodes. So 51 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: let's get started and let me bring you back to 52 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Hollywood nineteen seventy five. Down on Sunset Boulevard, Latchkey, kids 53 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: from the suburbs were gravitating to Rodney's English Disco, ground 54 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: zero for all things glam and glitter and best of 55 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: all transgressive. Carrie Chrome climbed out of the car and 56 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: slammed the door shut and watched as the strangers who'd 57 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: given her a lift drove off into the distance. She 58 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: had no idea how she'd get back home, but who cared. 59 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: She wasn't going back there This was the place, and 60 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: these were her people. The girls who looked like boys 61 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: and boys who looked like earls. The Rooster Hare, the 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: rhyin stones, the sequins and platform heels, all of its soundtrack, 63 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: not by Captain and Taneil or the Fucking Eagles, but 64 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: by the New York Dolls, t Rex the Sweet, and 65 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: that pre eminent badass of leather clad rock and roll 66 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: Susie Quattro. Carrie took it all in and for the 67 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: first time in a long time, she felt at ease. 68 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: But it wasn't enough to simply be there in the crowd. 69 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: Carrie Crome would be an active participant. She wanted to 70 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: be the one to write the songs of tomorrow, the 71 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: ones local legend DJ Chucky Starr would spin for this 72 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: glamorous crowd. It was a crowd that, on any given 73 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: night included everyone from Robert and Bonzo of led Zeppelin, 74 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: to Ray and Dave at the Kinks, to the once 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: boy King himself, Elvis Presley, who knows she could run 76 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: into Iggy Pop or Elton John and slip them a 77 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: page of her lyrics, and maybe even David Bowie himself. 78 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: But it wasn't Bowie or Iggy or Elton, a Carrie 79 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: met when she went to Hollywood. Instead, she was introduced 80 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: to another songwriter, a music producer, a man named Kim Folly. 81 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: Foley's resume was scattershot but impressive. He'd written for Warren Zevon, 82 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: Alice Cooper and The Birds, and produced songs by Gene 83 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 1: Vincent and Jonathan Richmond. But what really mattered to Carrie 84 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: was that he seemed genuinely interested in her songs. He 85 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: said she had real talent and that with his guidance, 86 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: she could be somebody somebody else. And so on her 87 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: fourteenth birthday, Carrie Chrome signed a contract with the thirty 88 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: six year old Kim Foley. All Right, that is a 89 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: live excerpt from our upcoming episode on the Runaways. In 90 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: Kim Folly. The Runaways was, of course, jone Jet and 91 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: Leader Ford's first band. I mentioned jon Jet and leader 92 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: Ford by name because they went on to have prominent 93 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: careers after The Runaways. Now, covering the Runaways is something 94 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: that I've been planning on doing since I started Disgraced 95 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: Land back in twenty eighteen, but I always shied away 96 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: from it because of how dark the subject matter is, 97 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: and I kind of had this other idea, a fun 98 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: way to cover this story. I know people who knew 99 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: Kim Fowley, who worked with him, and I always got 100 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: this weird feedback that he was a vampire, and I 101 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: thought it would be funny to produce a show that 102 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: literally cast Kim Foley as some sort of actual, real 103 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: life Hollywood vampire. But the subject matter here is too real, 104 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: it's too raw, it's too fucked up that taking that 105 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: tone would have been a mistake. This is one of 106 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: the first all female rock groups of consequence, and because 107 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: of that alone, there's a lot to be celebrated in 108 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: this story. But there's a darkness here that is just gross. 109 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: It's not something that I necessarily wanted to have my 110 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: head submerged into during weeks of research. Oh I passed 111 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: it off to our colleagues, Zeth Lundy here and had 112 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: him do it. Zeth, you actually researched and wrote this story, 113 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: so give us a peek into the darkness. But first 114 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: of all, how you do, my man. 115 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: I'm doing great. I'm glad to be out of the 116 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: darkness and in the light with you right now, and 117 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: just looking at this slate of subjects we have coming 118 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: up this year. I'm just really excited for the stories 119 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: we're gonna tell. 120 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, I'm pumped too. I feel like this year 121 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: I made a conscious effort to really focus on female 122 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: artists as much as we can. And there's always been 123 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: this gender imbalance in our story episode subjects, because the 124 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: best stories that we tell are the ones that they're 125 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: reckoning stories, their stories about an artist behaving very badly 126 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: and doing a bunch of transgressive true crime, etc. Just 127 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: on balance for music history, there's not a lot of 128 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: women who fit that bill. There are some, and we've 129 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: covered them all, I think, or most of them, but 130 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: we kind of found a way to tell stories about 131 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: more female artists that are at least transgressive. They're involved 132 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: in transgressions, things have been happened, things have happened to them, 133 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: which gets us into the story, and it just allowed 134 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: us to kind of up the quantity of female artists 135 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that we can cover. And you're definitely going to see 136 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: that in twenty twenty six. But back to the Runaway Zeth, 137 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: give me a one sentence description on this runaway story. 138 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: I think this is a story about the transformative power 139 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: of rock and roll, like how you can use it 140 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 2: to literally become somebody else, to escape the dullness of 141 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 2: everyday life. But it's also about the flip side of that, 142 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: the price that you have to pay for that kind 143 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: of escape, the manipulation and exploitation that is often at 144 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: the center of. 145 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: The music business. Like I said when I was seeing 146 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: this story up, there's a lot of exploitation. You just 147 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: mentioned exploitation, and we focused solely on that and the 148 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: grossness of it. And I'll just say, there's a quote 149 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: in this story from a writer not from Rolling Stone. 150 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: He goes on to be the editor of Rolling Stone. 151 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: They're real serious, dude. I'm not going to burn his 152 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: name here. And what he says in a review of 153 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: a live runaway show about the band is Honestly, if 154 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: I were writing this script for a Hollywood movie and 155 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: I turned in this quote to depict the schewe rock 156 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: guy from the nineteen seventies, it would get rejected because 157 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: it's too over the top. It's hard to believe that 158 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: it was even printed and it was printed by it 159 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: Was it printed by Cream at the times that or 160 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: was it printed by Crawdaddy. I think it was Crawdaddy. 161 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 1: Actually know that I say. 162 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 2: The even grosser thing, though, Jake, is that the more 163 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 2: you dig into the research on this, that wasn't like 164 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 2: an exception to the norm. That was like the that 165 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: rock critics wrote at the time, and the way that 166 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: women were were looked at and objectified, and it makes 167 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: it even skeasier that they were all underage. 168 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we haven't mentioned that yet, I don't think, 169 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: but you know, she was carry Chrome was fourteen years 170 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: old when this was going on, and the other members 171 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: of the band were like fifteen, sixteen, sixteen. Yeah, it 172 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: just just it's unbelievable. It's truly shocking. It's truly revealing 173 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: and revelatory and gross and just disgusting. So there's there's 174 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: that which is criminal enough, right, and when we get 175 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: into those crimes sex crimes, yep, but it's not the 176 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: whole story. Give me more of the true crime backstory 177 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: here to the Runways. 178 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 2: I mean, you touched on another aspect of it, the 179 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: in that reading from the script, which is this, you know, 180 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: the transgressive, slash like illegal nature of the scene that 181 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: they came out of, which was a scene where teenagers 182 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: were partying with adult rock stars at clubs in La 183 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: all the time, and then there's a there's a major 184 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: bust in England when the entire band is arrested and 185 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: thrown in jail, and then there's the life of crime 186 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: that one member of the Runaways was forced to live 187 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: later on when the band broke. 188 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: Up, which is really sad. 189 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: It is very sad because all she wanted was for 190 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: the band to continue on forever, Yeah, and for that 191 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: to be her thing, and then it was taken away 192 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: from her and she had a really hard time coping 193 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: with that. 194 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking bummer. We're sort of unintentional 195 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: music historians. We never really set out for this job, 196 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: and we come to these stories with a ton of knowledge, 197 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: both specific and general. And I knew the Runaway story loosely. 198 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: I'd never read a book on the Runaways. I never 199 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: I haven't seen the movie with. 200 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: I didn't watch it either. 201 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes it's good to not watch the biopics because 202 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: you don't want to fall in the same storytellingyway. But 203 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: I knew enough. I knew enough about the Runaways. I 204 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: knew a lot about the Runaways. But as is always 205 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: the case, we try on our episodes to dig revealing 206 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: facts out of the research that you guys might not 207 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: know even if you are music historians yourself or music fans. 208 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: So Zeth, give us. Give us one sort of like 209 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: truly revealing kind of Oh man, I didn't know that 210 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: fact or anecdote from this story. 211 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 2: This one's kind of funny actually, the fact that Robert 212 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: Plant of led Zeppelin was responsible for this arrest in England. 213 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: I mean it was responsible in a way. I won't 214 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: burn it here, but jone Jet definitely blamed him for 215 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: what happens, and you can hear all about that in the. 216 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: Episode, and you got to take the context. I'm not 217 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: going to burn the story here either, but the context 218 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: is super rich because the Runaways, you know, even though 219 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: they had a moment, there's still they're still an obscure band, 220 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: and they're paling around with Robert Plant, who's literally the 221 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: biggest rock star on the planet at the time. So 222 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: the sort of like fame and power imbalance here, and 223 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: to think that Robert Plant is responsible for what happens 224 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: to them in this situation is super annoying from jone 225 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: Jet's perspective. Absolutely all right, So check that out. That's 226 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: this Runaways episode is one of the first ones we're 227 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: gonna be releasing in twenty twenty six. I'm excited for 228 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: you guys to hear it. I'm excited for you to 229 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: hear all the episodes we're releasing. We're you know, kind 230 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: of looking at this seasonally, even though we're always on 231 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: so you know, seasonally, we're talking about I guess, you know, 232 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: ten twelve episodes per season. I don't even know what 233 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: season we're on right now. It's like at twenty seven 234 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: or something insane like that, something like that. Anyhow, we're 235 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: gonna get back with the rest of the episodes and 236 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: talk more about it and dive a little bit more 237 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: behind the scenes right after this. Okay, Zeth Lundy, If 238 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: I were to ask you which modern day female artists 239 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: is the subject of one of the most thatshit crazy 240 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that you could actually conjure up, which female 241 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: artist would you guess that was? 242 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: There's one in the upcoming mini episode of The Runaways. 243 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: The Runaways mini episode about jon Jet and a church 244 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: that worships her supposedly. But even better than that, maybe 245 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: that one about Beyonce and jay Z being like leaders 246 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: of the Illuminati. There's all kinds of hidden symbolism in 247 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: her work. 248 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: That's not a conspiracy theory, that's actually true. 249 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: So I'm glad we settled that here. 250 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: No need to even talk about that. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, 251 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: don't clip that. No, it's not Beyonce though, that is 252 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: crazy and that that would actually make for a good episode. 253 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. 254 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: I have a hard time with conspiracy theorists who are 255 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: just like I have friends like this. There's obviously you 256 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: can't avoid these folks online who are just they're just 257 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: always diving deeper into whatever the fucking YouTube portal wormhole is, 258 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: but they're really like at most an inch deep on 259 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: the actual research. You know what I mean, Right, You 260 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Yeah, I do. One crazy source 261 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: does not make for a legitimate conspiracy theory. So on 262 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: the one hand, I'm super annoyed by that. On the 263 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: other hand, I'm equally annoyed by people who are just 264 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: like who won't entertain any conspiracies because the pattern from 265 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: history is so obvious that yesterday's conspiracies end up being 266 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: today's historical record. It's happened over and over again, and 267 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: I've talked about it so much so I'm not gonna 268 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: do more of that. So I have these like twin annoyances. 269 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: Right on the one hand, that can piracy theorists annoy 270 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: the ship out of me. On the other hand, the 271 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: people who just dismiss conspiracies annoy the ship out of me. 272 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: Almost even more so. Those people always more annoying to me. Yeah, 273 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: because it indicates a lack of curiosity, which to me 274 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: is is right up there with like one of the 275 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: most unattractive qualities a person can have is to just 276 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: be to not be curious. I can't stand that. It's 277 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: so boring. It's like, what are we gonna do? Just 278 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: make small talk at the fucking kids football game? Or 279 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, what are we doing? 280 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: I can't stand it. So okay, so hold on, I 281 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: have a point here. There's a middle. There is a 282 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: There is a middle that we don't explore enough where 283 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: we should be able to look at conspiracies objectively and 284 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: and try to pull apart whether or not they're true, 285 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: and damn the ship out of them if they're if 286 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: they're false, you know, and and to me, what is 287 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: more interesting than the than the getting piece of it? 288 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: Then the judgment piece of it. What's more interesting to 289 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: me is like, why do these conspiracy theories take root? 290 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: What is the root of it? Is it just for 291 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: clicks or is it based in some sort of uh, 292 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: some sort of cultural insecurity or fear or whatever. So 293 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: the why of the conspiracy, even if the conspiracy is false, 294 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: is as interesting to me, almost as interesting as if 295 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: the conspiracy were true. Okay, So that's where I'm coming 296 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: from with this story that we're going to do on 297 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 1: one of the biggest female artists in pop music history 298 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: who's still rocking right now. And my dog Dusty is 299 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: a big fan, as you can hear, she's a big 300 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: fan of Lady Gaga. All right, Okay, Okay, this conspiracy 301 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: theory is completely messed up. And again let's let's just 302 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: be super clear. I'm not saying that this conspiracy theory 303 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: about Lady Gaga is true. We're simply looking into the 304 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: theory in this episode. We're looking into why it's sprung out. 305 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: We're looking into what the backstory is. And the backstory 306 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: is incredible, and I'm a little shocked at how underreported 307 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: this story is. I think if Lady Gaga was like 308 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: twenty percent less famous, this would be a much bigger story. 309 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: Okay, but well, wait a minute, hold on, I don't 310 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: even know what this is all about. What's the story, 311 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:28,239 Speaker 2: what's the theory here? 312 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: All right? Okay, all right, I don't even know where 313 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: to start. 314 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 2: You're like Joe Pesci and leath the Weapon three or two? Okay, okay, okay, 315 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: all right, all right, okay. 316 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: There have been online always these rumors about about Lady 317 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: Gaga's origin story, where she came from as an artist. Okay. 318 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: There's a woman named Yana Morgana, and she had a daughter, 319 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: Lena Morgana, and Lena was Lena Morgana was friends with 320 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: Lady Gaga back when Lady Gaga was starting out, and 321 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: Yata Morgana claims that Gaga stole her whole trip from 322 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: her daughter, Lena Morgana. Her Lady Gaga stole her musical style, 323 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: her fashion, basically her entire artistic persona. Is the claim, 324 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: not my claim, not my claim, to be clear, But 325 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm interested in this claim because back in two thousand 326 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: and eight, at just nineteen years old, Lina Morgana killed 327 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: herself Lady Gaga's friend. Okay. Now, there are people who 328 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: don't believe that Lena Morgana killed herself. They actually believe 329 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: that Lady Gaga killed Lina Morgana, And to be clear, 330 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: I don't think that happened. I do not believe that, 331 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: but this story won't die. It's a Reddit circus. There's 332 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: a ton of wormholes. They're very big, and I'm fascinated. Again, 333 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: I don't believe Lady Gaga killed anybody, but I remain 334 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: open to the possibility that anything is possible, and I'm 335 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: going to dive into the subject and see where it 336 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: leads me. And we're either going to find out if 337 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: it's true. Again, I don't think we're going to find 338 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: out that it's true, right, or we're going to reveal 339 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: We're going to reveal why the conspiracy is a conspiracy 340 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: and where it came from, and the fascinating details around 341 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: the conspiracy are what's honestly most interesting to me. There 342 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: are some crazy similarities here and there are you know, 343 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: when you look at what these people are claiming, they're 344 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: actually not just it's not like this isn't like flat 345 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: earth stuff, you know, it's actually it's rooted in How 346 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: do I say this without sounding like a conspiracy theorist? 347 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: See this is difficult, which is in part why I 348 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: like it. The theory is rooted in some truths. Okay, 349 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: that does not mean that the theory is true. There's 350 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: two different things. And I want to objectively look at 351 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: this and find out why this type of theory could 352 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: even take root. And we're gonna do it all, of course, 353 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: by doing what we do while giving our own biographical 354 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: take on Lady Gaga as an artist. Lady Gaga is 355 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. As an artist. There's a lot of 356 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: her music that I like. I don't consider myself a fan. 357 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm not, but you know, I hear stuff now and 358 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: then I'm like, that's It's fucking great. As a person, 359 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: She's always interested me because she's incredibly talented beyond I 360 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: mean as an entertainer. You know what I'm saying. Oh yeah, 361 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: of course I don't like Barbara Streisand's music, But Barbara 362 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: Streisand comes on screen and I just go, oh shit, yeah, 363 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm watching this. This is great. Yeah, you know what 364 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean. And then I spend twenty minutes trying to 365 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: figure out if it's Barbara Streisan or Bette Midler because 366 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: I was confused to in my head you have to 367 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: think those things from when you're a kid, where you 368 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: just like you mix people up. You mix them up 369 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: when you're five years old, and you can't stop mixing 370 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: them up. Yeah, of course, of course I had a 371 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: theory when I was a little kid. I remember I 372 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: went to a new school in the fourth grade and 373 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: it was connected to this barberstriis In and Bette Midler thing. 374 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: I would group celebrities in my head. I would get 375 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: them confused because they were similar to me for whatever reason. 376 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: And then I went to this new school and I 377 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: started to notice that these these kids looked just like 378 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: kids at my old school. This is fourth grade, and 379 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: I started to think, like, maybe we're just like breeds 380 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: of dogs, you know, or maybe we're just like, you know, 381 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: we're all kind of like, you know, you get your 382 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: Boxers and get your Cocker Spaniels, and they're different dogs, 383 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: different people, they all kind of look alike, you know 384 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: what I mean, you know. And then it kind of 385 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: evolved into like, well maybe that's what are That's that's 386 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: you know what the supreme being who runs the algorithm 387 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: has created just little little cohorts of people who all 388 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: look the same and do the same thing anyhow, way 389 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: off track, I don't actually believe that. People, is that 390 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: this story that Gaga star reminds me of a couple 391 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: of our past episodes, like the Nirvana episode. You know, 392 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: talk about behind the scenes, it's the purpose of this 393 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: the Nirvana episode. When I went into the research, I 394 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: went into the research thinking, yeah, okay, there's a possibility 395 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: that the Soaked and Bleach stuff and Courtney Love had 396 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: something to do, which is you know, I was open 397 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: to it, right right, And then I did the research 398 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: and I was completely closed to it. It just didn't happen. People. 399 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I saw Soaked and Bleach. I've seen it. 400 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: We have we have, uh literally a dossier of supposedly 401 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: incriminating evidence on Courtney Love that isn't actually incriminating. There's 402 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: too there's too much. And every time I talk about 403 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: this it pisses people off and I get angry letters. 404 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: But I don't care. I believe it in my core. 405 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: I don't believe Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobaine, and and 406 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: if I did believe it, I would say it. But 407 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: the research doesn't point to that. And so I came 408 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: out of that episode just feeling like I felt. Now. Conversely, 409 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: I went into the Mamas and Papa's Charles Manson story 410 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: and yeah, I was I didn't believe that Charles Manson 411 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: was a CIA asset. And then I came out of 412 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: that research and I one hundred percent now believe that 413 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: Charles Manson was a CIA asset. I believe in the 414 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: MK ultra theory because the research supports it. That's what 415 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: I love about this job. You know, this is getting 416 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: to a new place in our thinking based on the facts. Zeth, 417 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: do you have examples of this from your research? I'm curious. 418 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: We never literally never asked you this question before, and 419 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: we talked, Sure you haven't every day? 420 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure you do. Let me know, Well, 421 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 2: the first one that comes to mind is certainly the 422 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: entire Wu Tang season that I researched and wrote. That 423 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: ten episode season I knew a little bit about. I 424 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: knew that the FBI had a file on them, just 425 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: like the FBI has files on so many other musicians 426 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: over here since the days of Jimmy Hendrix. 427 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: Right. 428 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was shocked first of all to find 429 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: out how deep it went that the FEDS were literally 430 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: classifying the WU Tang Clan as a what they call 431 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: a two point eighty one f which is a major 432 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: criminal organization like they were the mafia, right. And then 433 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 2: on top of that, there was this wild reporting from 434 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: the Village Voice about one of the group's members being 435 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 2: an FBI informant during that time. So obviously all that 436 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: was kind of turned what I knew about this whole 437 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 2: thing on its head, and it was incredible fodder for storytelling. 438 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: And then the second one that comes to mind would 439 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 2: be the one that I just recently researched and wrote, 440 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: which is about how Johnny Thunders died, which is coming 441 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: out next week. 442 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get to that in just a second. 443 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: The Wu Tang thing, I don't want to make this political, 444 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: and I hope people don't take this as being political. 445 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: The file on Wu Tang Clan is it's ridiculous that 446 00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: the government effort to surveil and watch Route clan is ridiculous, 447 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: was ridiculous. It's a giant waste of money. Even if 448 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: they were up to no good, it shouldn't have risen 449 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: it shouldn't have rose to the level of the federal government, 450 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: right And this, to me is just an example of 451 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: what happens when you have you have people in positions 452 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: of power who are just fucking bored and need something 453 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: to do. You know what I'm saying, Like like literally, 454 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: that's what this is. You know, Like how about at 455 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: the time, dude, like looking into I don't know the 456 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: ben Laden's there's some shit you might have, you know 457 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: what I mean. And it just strikes me as as 458 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: what happens when bureaucracy gets too fucking big and resources 459 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: are misallocated. Because it's not like people sitting around the time, 460 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: like the government is sitting around talking about conspiracy theories. 461 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: The federal government, the FBI is sitting around like going, oh, 462 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: let's get those hip hop guys. You know what I mean. 463 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: It's some person who's bored trying to make a name 464 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: for themselves, right. You know, well you shouldn't have that 465 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: person bored on payroll in the first place, and this 466 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen. And it's just it continues to go on 467 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: and it's frustrating and aggravating, Unlike the Johnny Thunders story, 468 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: which we have coming up, which I think is the Yeah, 469 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: that's the first episode that's coming up next week, Yeah, 470 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: next week, and this one's connected to another, another myth. 471 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to say conspiracy. I will say myth, 472 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: and we'll tell you about it in a second. Right 473 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: after this, we'll be right back after this. We're we're, 474 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: We're all right, Zeth Lundy, We are back and listen. 475 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: There's a large contingent of music history nerds like ourselves 476 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: who believe that Johnny Thunders from the New York Dolls 477 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: was murdered. That came out wrong. Music history nerds like 478 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: ourselves who believe that, not necessarily saying we believe that, 479 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: but we heard about this and we wanted to dig 480 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: into it, and we wanted to figure out, Okay, is 481 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: this true? Is this not true? So, without giving away 482 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: the whole story, what can you tell us about the 483 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: New York Dolls, Johnny Thunders and his death. That's number one, 484 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: Number two about your approach to writing this story. 485 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: Okay, So, Johnny Thunders was found dead in a hotel 486 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: room in New Orleans in nineteen ninety one. He was 487 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 2: thirty eight. He struggled with addiction his whole life. So 488 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 2: the cops basically took one look at the scene and 489 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 2: said dead junkie. Case closed. But there were all these 490 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 2: other factors surrounding the last day and night of his life, 491 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 2: like he had literally just flown into town. I think 492 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: he was in Europe or Asia before that touring. He 493 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: flew into town that day. He met some local people 494 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: that he didn't know. They went out, they partied. Some 495 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: weird shit happened before and after his body was found. 496 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: And because of this, and because the cops refused to 497 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 2: look into any of this weird shit, people like Dede Ramone, 498 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: who knew Johnny Well, began disseminating this counter narrative that 499 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: he was didn't overdose, but that he was in fact 500 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: murdered and the cops needed to look into this. And 501 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 2: so I went into the research like excited to dig 502 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: into this counter narrative because there's a lot of stuff 503 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: out there about it from legit legit sourcing. So that's 504 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: how I ended up writing this as I wrote it 505 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 2: from the perspective that this counter narrative, this theory could 506 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: be valid, And of course the fun part is how 507 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: where it goes and how it ends, which is totally surprising, 508 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 2: I think, and I think the listeners are really digging. 509 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of the stories reminded me of 510 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: a little bit of the sit in Nancy story where 511 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: there was always this sort of like burbling in the 512 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: scene about what actually happened and who was responsible and 513 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't really documented, and I thought, oh, this is 514 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: similar again. I don't want to burn it here, but 515 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating. Johnny Thunders is just quite literally the 516 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: most rock and roll guy of all time, and the 517 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: myth around his death he should have a myth surrounding 518 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: his death, for sure, shoul. So we're going to get 519 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: into that, and it's hard to talk about here without burning. 520 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: And one thing, a little more behind the scenes thing 521 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: that I'm storygling with with this episode is what we're 522 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: going to do with the music. Because when we talk 523 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: about punk artists or metal artists, or even rock or 524 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: hard rock, there's a tendency and I learned this in 525 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: the Guns N' Roses episode production to you know, use 526 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: music that is that that sounds similar to what the 527 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: artist was making. And for whatever reason, heavy music or 528 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: at least like yeah, just just heavy guitar oriented music 529 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: does not sound good in our production with vo it 530 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: just doesn't work. Whereas electronic music, hip hop music, dominated beat, 531 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: beat type music sounds fantastic. So it's like, like, we guys, 532 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: we always try to do this thing where, you know, 533 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: we've learned our lesson where we take the artists that 534 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about and we try to put them through 535 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: the Massive Attack machine, which is, you know, okay, take So, 536 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: so take the right way to score a Metallica episode 537 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: is not to try to make music that sounds like Metallica. 538 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: It's to take Metallica's influence and run it through the 539 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: influence of Massive Attack. To always Massive Attack, because Massive 540 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: Attack has this like super vibey electronic menace to it 541 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: and it's just served us well. So there's no way 542 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: we can make New York Dolls Johnny Thunder's style music work. 543 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I had this idea, like we should 544 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: do something. You know, we've already kind of taken the 545 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: New York Dolls music and run it through the Massive 546 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: Attack thing in the New York Dolls episode. This is 547 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: going to be part two. Johnny Thunders so thinking we 548 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: should take New Orleans music because Johnny Thunders dies in 549 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: New Orleans. 550 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: Yea, we should take like, you know, he wanted to 551 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 2: make a New Orleans record too. 552 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: He wanted to take a make a New Orleans record 553 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: to take you alentusson Doctor John that kind of New 554 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: Orleans vibe and treat it with that menacing, massive attack 555 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: thing for this for this episode, I think that could 556 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: be cool, right, yeah for sure? Yeah, all right, well man, 557 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: we'll fuck with that somehow. Or we could just use 558 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers sound of music and pissed 559 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders off. 560 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 2: People will get that joke when they hear the episode. 561 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, there's a heavy Tom Petty five and the 562 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: Johnny thunders episode. That's not good all right. 563 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: Uh. 564 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: Murder is at the heart of all the episodes that 565 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: we've discussed so far. One of the most requested episodes 566 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: we've had since the show started was to do something 567 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: on MIAs A Patta from the gets. I've alwayshed away 568 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: from this story, similar to the Runaway story for a 569 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: bunch of different reasons. We decided this year was the 570 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: year we're going to tell the Miya Zapata story. Now, guys, 571 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: what often happens is Beth and I aren't being lazy. 572 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: We'll have editorial meetings around each episode where we'll get 573 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: together and talk about, uh, you know what we know 574 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: just you know, without any research, what we know of 575 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: the artists, what we know of the crime, certain themes 576 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: we might want to explore, things we know we want mentioned, 577 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: and then we'll go off into the research and we'll 578 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: pull it all together. And we used to meet after 579 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: the research before recording. We don't even really do that anymore. 580 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: We're just kind of we got it so dialed in. 581 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: We haven't yet had that meeting on me as a 582 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: PATA in the Gifts, and we figured that we'll do 583 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: some of the editorial work, behind the scenes work here 584 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: for you guys. Zesth. So you know we're going to 585 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: have to do a call about this this week. And 586 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: I said, no, wait, let's don't burn it. Let's do it. 587 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: Let's do it when we tape this thing. So give 588 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: me your questions on me as a Potter. We'll try 589 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: to work our way through this real quick. 590 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: Well, this is I'm just going to brain dump what 591 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: I'm thinking here based on the research I've done. There's 592 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 2: an obvious way to tell the story, right, and that's 593 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 2: with me as a pod is brutal, shocking murder. You 594 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 2: know what happened right after Stephanie Sargent of seven year 595 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 2: Bitch died and then right before Kurt Cobain. But in 596 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 2: a way it has this the bigger ripple effect in 597 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 2: the nucleus of that music scene, the indie scene in Seattle. 598 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 2: First of all, it tragically happened ray after the Gets 599 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: went down to La met with Atlantic Records, and Atlantic 600 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: was basically like, we're going to give you guys a deal. 601 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 2: And then in the wake of this, a lot of 602 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: bands in their circle broke up. There was a lot 603 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 2: of paranoia and suspicion because all these guys in their 604 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 2: in their crews and their bands were being brought in 605 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 2: by the cops for questioning. 606 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, the investigation focused on her friends at first, 607 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: who are all musicians in the Seattle music scene or 608 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: connected to the Seattle music scene. That they weren't musicians. 609 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: And it should be mentioned this is nineteen ninety three, 610 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: this is the height of the grunge explosion, and me 611 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: as a potter from the Gets was not like any 612 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: just any old band. They were like a real band 613 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: in the scene. They were friends with you know, Soundguard 614 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: and mud Honey, Yes, all those folks. So it's you know, 615 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: that's the backdrop here. 616 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that. Context, and so I think 617 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 2: everyone kind of thought that it was somebody that they knew. 618 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 2: And then when the murderer was I mean the murder 619 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 2: was was wasn't caught for like ten years, and so 620 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 2: when he finally was, it took everybody by surprise because 621 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 2: they figured it was someone that that that MEA had known, 622 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 2: someone that they all new. And there's this random dude 623 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 2: who like split for Florida after it happened. This takes 624 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 2: place in the very early years of DNA helping to 625 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 2: solve a crime. 626 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 627 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was taken at the crime scene, stored for 628 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 2: years until it was able to be analyzed and added 629 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 2: to the FBIS database. Now that all said, the other 630 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 2: thing I wanted to point out Jake was that the 631 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 2: drummer for the band for the Gets, Steve Moriarty. He 632 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 2: just published a new book recently about the band and 633 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 2: about Mia, and his primary motivation was that he was 634 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: sick of hearing about MIA's murder. He was sick of 635 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: having the tabloid nature of the crime overshadow the excellence 636 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 2: of the group and Mia herself, and so he barely 637 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: even touches on the murder in the book. It's more 638 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 2: about her and about them, And so I think what 639 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 2: I want to do with this episode, and that's this 640 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: is what I want to talk to you about, is 641 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: strike this balance between what is our bread and butter here, 642 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 2: which is music and true crime, but also do it 643 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 2: in a way that we're not sensationalizing it and that 644 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 2: we're truly memorializing her for who she was. You know, 645 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 2: so if like any of the guys in the gets 646 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 2: happened to hear this episode, they would be like, oh, yeah, 647 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 2: like these guys got it, they got it right. 648 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Because there is a documentary on her and 649 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: there's like, you know, three of those sort of like 650 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: you know, forty eight hours TV true crime things id TV, 651 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: and I don't want to do anything like any of that. 652 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: And I haven't seen the doc. You have seen the 653 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: doc cause so you know, we need our own point 654 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: of view on this that I want to take. And 655 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: she's a fascinating character and I'm sure this will be 656 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: in the book you're talking about because she was kind 657 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: of like a double kid. She was a rich kid 658 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: who or you know, at least you know, very upper 659 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: middle class who grew up in that world of you know, 660 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,479 Speaker 1: tennis clubs, and whatever, and then. 661 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: Her mom was like a TV high ranking TV executive 662 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 2: who lived in like a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park. 663 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: I think, yeah. And then she ends up going to 664 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: Seattle and lives sort of the I don't want to 665 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: say grunge lifestyle, but the rock and roll kind of 666 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 1: like like she lived it. I mean it was real. Yeah, 667 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: and there's a you know, people will be like, oh, 668 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: you're faking it or that's bullshit, that's you know, people 669 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: are who they are. It doesn't matter where they come from, right, 670 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: you could be whoever the fuck you want. And I 671 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: mean that's the point of this Runaways episode too. But 672 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: there's an interesting psychology there which would be cool to 673 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: crack into, ye and to treat the rape and the 674 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 1: murder with the sensitivity that it deserves. There's some really 675 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: interesting things, guys. So normally when we would do this, 676 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: I would point out to Zeth, like, Okay, here's some 677 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: things that I know about this that I want represented 678 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: in this if I'm not writing it. The medical examiner. 679 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: So when she was killed, she was so badly abused 680 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: that in just the body, they didn't know who she was. 681 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: And it took a couple of days and the medical 682 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: examiner was a fan of the gets and that's how 683 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: the body was recognized. Like he actually was like, oh, 684 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: it was somebody who worked in the medical examiner's office. 685 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: If I remember incorrectly, he was like, oh, oh god, 686 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: I know who this is. 687 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 2: Oh I didn't haven't even turned that up in my 688 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: research yet. That's fascinating. I'd look into that. 689 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: I think that's a scene for sure. Maybe it opens 690 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: with something like that, and there's just there has to 691 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,439 Speaker 1: be something like the theme. I don't know what themes 692 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: we're going to get into, but it could be the 693 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,720 Speaker 1: theme or just a sub theme of the community rallying 694 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: around her afterward. Because they did, they raised their own money, 695 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: they hired a private investigator. I'm sure all that is covered, 696 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, ad nauseum, because it's obvious, but it needs 697 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: to be mentioned. And then the other thing is I 698 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 1: think sonically, what I want to do with it. They say. 699 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 1: What I've read anyways, is that she was walking down 700 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: the street like two am before she was attacked, and 701 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: she didn't hear the killer coming because she had headphones on, 702 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: and that's how the killer was able to get the 703 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: drop on her. I think it would be cool if 704 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: we do something in this episode where remember remember like 705 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: old school sony headphones, like the little orange you know, 706 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: cushiony things, and it's it doesn't seem to happen anymore 707 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: with earbuds, but back then you could really hear when 708 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: somebody was like pumping music. You know, if you're somebody's 709 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: walking by these headphones, you could like hear them. You 710 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: hear the bleed. We should do that in sonically, like 711 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: make that audio device part of the score is that 712 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: that headphone bleed and try to do like a hitchcocky 713 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 1: and thing with that during the during the the lead 714 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: up to the death. And I don't want to dramatize 715 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: the death beyond that. I really I think your instincts 716 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: are den on. We want to we want to make 717 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: the spot her yep, yep. All right, so that's gonna 718 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: be the me is a PoTA episode. 719 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 2: Great, that's that's all great for me to go on. 720 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: Perfect, all right, dope, guys, if you have any other 721 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: thoughts on how we should treat this gets episode, get 722 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: at us because we get a little time before we 723 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: get into the production and let us know six one 724 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: seven nine oh six six six three eight voicemail and 725 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: text at Disgrace Lamppod on the socials or Disgrace Lampod 726 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com on email. We'd love your input 727 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: and we'd love to include some of it if it's 728 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: if it's relevant, makes sense for the story we decide 729 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: we want to tell. All right, we're gonna take a 730 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: quick break back right for this. All right, guys, we 731 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,399 Speaker 1: are back. Thanks for hanging with us in this sort 732 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: of I know behind the scenes look at disgrace Land, 733 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: I don't know what we're calling this, but that sounds 734 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: good enough to me. I meant to get at us 735 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: with any thoughts you have on any of these episodes 736 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: as we're in pre production, if you want to lend 737 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: your voice and lend your take, happy to hear it. 738 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: In addition to the Runaways, Lady, Johnny Thunders, and Mia Zapata, 739 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 1: next season, we're also releasing episodes on Hunter S. Thompson, 740 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: which will be our last public release of a non 741 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 1: music subject in Disgraceland. That experiment will officially be over. 742 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: We're going to do a second episode on Inexcess because 743 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: there's this way more there that we need to tell. 744 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,320 Speaker 1: Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders and Pete Dhugherty from The 745 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: Libertines that those are all coming up in this next 746 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 1: season of Disgrace. And finally we have this new concept 747 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: that we're going to try out in Disgraceland as well 748 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: this year. I've long been obsessed with murder ballads. You 749 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: guys who know me, you know this, and I wanted 750 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: to do this show forever, and we're going to look 751 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: at one. It's a slightly askew look at music and 752 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 1: true crime. It's not from the perspective necessarily of the artist, 753 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: but it's from the perspective of the song. And much 754 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: like we did in the Derek and the Dominoes episode 755 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: with the Law and Family murder, we're going to look 756 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: at in these, you know, at least one Disgraceland episode 757 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: per month or so, we will look at one song 758 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: that was either inspired by our true crime or inspired 759 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: a true crime, and we'll look at the killer connected 760 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: to that. So I think Talking Heads in the Son 761 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: of Sam or Cookeye Billy Cook and Jim Morrison, or 762 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: Charles Manson and Helter Skelter. We probably won't do that 763 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: because we've done a lot of Manson content, but just 764 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: there's this is endless fodder. This is unofficially being called 765 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: dead notes, and these these will be like special features 766 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: in Disgraceland that you guys are gonna get. All right, guys, listen, 767 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: get us your subjects that you want us to cover 768 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: six one seven nine oh six six six three eight 769 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 1: voicemail texts at Gracelandpod on the social disgracelandpod at gmail 770 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: dot com. Email let us know which artists you want 771 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: us to cover. You guys are good at it, even 772 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: doing it forever, keep doing it and we'll talk more 773 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: about it in here. Also doing this thing over in Patreon, 774 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: which if you're part of our ten dollars tier, you're 775 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: going to in addition to getting this film should be 776 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: played loud our new video podcast every month, you're also 777 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: going to gain access to service these special twice yearly 778 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: roundtables where we get on a zoom together and we 779 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: formally discuss which episodes we're going to cover and we 780 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: choose them, select them or select a large handful of them, 781 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: so that way you will have you'll be guaranteed to 782 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: have direct influence on the show, and some of that 783 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: we'll take some of that content we create in during 784 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: that process, and some of it will be reflected in 785 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: these in these behind the scenes episodes that we're rolling 786 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: out for you guys. So that's another way for you 787 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: to be involved. Appreciate the involvement. Love the community we 788 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: have guys. Thank you so much, Zeth. Thanks for your time, man. 789 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: I know it's a busy time of year. Appreciate you 790 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 1: digging in time. Guys. Thank you so much again. Thanks 791 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: for supporting us on Patreon, on Apple Podcasts, just being 792 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: fans of the show. Love you guys. Have a great 793 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: day talk So all right, guys, thanks for rolling with 794 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: us on a special episode of Disgraceland. Question of the 795 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: Week this week is obvious What artists, which subjects do 796 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: you want us to cover next? Get at a six 797 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: one seven nine oh six six sixty three eight, voicemail 798 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: and text. We'll dive deep into it in this week's 799 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: after party. Get into some specifics, guys. If you're listening 800 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts, make sure you have auto downloads turned on. 801 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: Six one seven nine oh six six six three eight, 802 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: voicemail texts at disgracelam pod on the socials. Here comes 803 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: from credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and is 804 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: produced in partnership with bub Elvis. Credits for this episode 805 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: can be found on the show notes page at disgracelampod 806 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: dot com. Rate and review the show and follow us 807 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook at disgracelampod and on 808 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: YouTube at YouTube dot com slash at disgracelampod, Rock a 809 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: Roller He the bed Down Man.