WEBVTT - Snowball - Episode 6: Stakeout 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.836 Pushkin. 0:00:20.236 --> 0:00:26.476 This episode contains occasional course language. 0:00:27.076 --> 0:00:27.596 Here we go. 0:00:28.516 --> 0:00:31.516 Oh man, it's like game day for a sportsperson that's 0:00:31.556 --> 0:00:35.236 been training for ages, but only as thirty seconds on 0:00:35.236 --> 0:00:39.676 the field to kind of prove themselves. My brother, Simon 0:00:39.716 --> 0:00:43.236 and I are in our ridiculous American muscle car. After 0:00:43.316 --> 0:00:46.276 months of investigating, today might be the day I come 0:00:46.316 --> 0:00:49.836 face to face with Leslie Minuchian. You know how sometimes 0:00:49.836 --> 0:00:53.156 people say that they have butterflies in their stomach, Well, 0:00:53.516 --> 0:00:56.596 I reckon minds more like bats flying out of a cave, 0:00:56.756 --> 0:01:00.036 all heaps of them at once. The trail has led 0:01:00.076 --> 0:01:04.116 me to this small Californian town called San Luis Obispo. 0:01:04.476 --> 0:01:07.156 Leslie was spotted restocking shelves in a supermarket here in 0:01:07.156 --> 0:01:09.556 the last year or so. So we're on our way 0:01:09.596 --> 0:01:13.516 to that supermarket. All right, microphones in the incognito position 0:01:13.756 --> 0:01:15.916 down in the center of the car, sitting in between 0:01:15.956 --> 0:01:17.076 Simon and I. 0:01:16.756 --> 0:01:17.756 Hope you guys can hear us. 0:01:17.796 --> 0:01:21.036 Okay, all the people have been speaking to from her past, 0:01:21.276 --> 0:01:24.556 they all say Leslie won't talk. But I've traveled across 0:01:24.596 --> 0:01:27.076 the world to be here, and I've just got to 0:01:27.076 --> 0:01:30.996 get Leslie's side of this story. We're pulling into the 0:01:31.036 --> 0:01:36.316 workplace that Leslie's at we're about to be at, and 0:01:37.796 --> 0:01:39.956 she could be in the traffic around us as we 0:01:40.036 --> 0:01:42.596 drive around. At this stage, we just want to scoop 0:01:42.636 --> 0:01:45.676 the place out and confirm Leslie still works here. Then 0:01:45.796 --> 0:01:48.596 we'll figure out how I approach her. Before we've made 0:01:48.596 --> 0:01:51.516 a plan. We really don't want to be spotted. Now, 0:01:51.556 --> 0:01:56.876 we play the incognito waiting game. We sit for a 0:01:56.916 --> 0:02:00.836 while hoping to spot Leslie. Young supermarket staff walk through 0:02:00.876 --> 0:02:03.356 the car park to start their shift. This guy's going 0:02:03.356 --> 0:02:06.876 in there wearing his apron. So I wonder if there's 0:02:06.916 --> 0:02:13.436 a uniform like from your uniform, right, yeah, true mufty, Yeah, 0:02:14.556 --> 0:02:17.316 you're not in casual, Just wear what you want. It 0:02:17.396 --> 0:02:20.356 feels like everything around us is in slow motion. We're 0:02:20.396 --> 0:02:24.156 on high alert, sitting up like merecats, looking around the Savannah. 0:02:24.276 --> 0:02:27.596 Simon's pointing to a black car pulling up. Oh man, 0:02:29.156 --> 0:02:32.156 oh wow, we could be on here. I honestly think 0:02:32.156 --> 0:02:32.876 we could be on here. 0:02:33.436 --> 0:02:37.476 A female black hair can imagine her kind of driving 0:02:37.516 --> 0:02:38.236 a car like that. 0:02:41.356 --> 0:02:42.516 That honestly looks like her. 0:02:42.556 --> 0:02:54.876 Bro, that's that's Minuchi in mate. She's hopping out. 0:02:58.956 --> 0:03:03.836 No, it's not her. As we sit here, it seems 0:03:03.876 --> 0:03:09.916 like everybody could be who we're looking for it. She 0:03:09.956 --> 0:03:13.516 doesn't looked too far off yet, though it's close Leslie. 0:03:13.956 --> 0:03:16.556 There's only one more thing to do. I need to 0:03:16.596 --> 0:03:19.156 go into the supermarket and see if I can see her. 0:03:19.676 --> 0:03:23.156 I'm just going to brave a full incognito mode look 0:03:23.236 --> 0:03:28.596 around in the supermarket. Why because I want to confirm 0:03:28.636 --> 0:03:30.956 that she is there. I reckon I can do it 0:03:30.996 --> 0:03:34.956 without being spotted. It's risky. I don't want to talk 0:03:34.996 --> 0:03:38.316 to Leslie actually inside where she works. I don't want 0:03:38.356 --> 0:03:41.436 to create a scene at her workplace, and if she 0:03:41.516 --> 0:03:43.796 sees me, she might sneak off through a back entrance 0:03:43.916 --> 0:03:49.156 or something. Okay, here we go walking through the car park. 0:03:52.876 --> 0:03:55.116 Maybe the New Zealand accent will give me a wife, 0:03:55.236 --> 0:03:58.316 so I should sort of keep it a little low. 0:03:59.476 --> 0:04:01.436 This might be crazy risky, but I'm going to go 0:04:02.476 --> 0:04:09.636 even deeper into the supermarket. Hell man, this is this 0:04:09.756 --> 0:04:12.276 is some hectic stuff. I'm in the shampoo aisle. 0:04:13.716 --> 0:04:18.716 Oh okay, if the heart is racing, I'm going down 0:04:18.756 --> 0:04:21.916 the kind of main aisle now I'm going to peel out. 0:04:22.716 --> 0:04:28.716 Couldn't spot her behind the cashiers is looking further down. 0:04:28.756 --> 0:04:32.036 Oh my gosh, there she is. Absolutely that's her. She's 0:04:32.076 --> 0:04:37.996 working in the customer service aisle, and I reckon I 0:04:38.076 --> 0:04:40.036 might be able to get a long shot. 0:04:41.836 --> 0:04:42.196 All right. 0:04:44.716 --> 0:04:46.796 When I come out of the supermarket, Simon is off 0:04:46.836 --> 0:04:49.076 in the car watching the other entrance. I want to 0:04:49.156 --> 0:04:51.596 check if I'm right. I sent you a little screenshot 0:04:51.676 --> 0:04:53.796 and have a look at it, and you tell me 0:04:53.796 --> 0:04:54.516 if that's her or not. 0:04:55.516 --> 0:04:57.516 And as one hundred percent I just saw I didn't 0:04:57.516 --> 0:04:58.396 even have to look towards. 0:05:01.036 --> 0:05:03.116 Now that we know that Leslie's in there, we just 0:05:03.196 --> 0:05:04.956 have to be able to spot her when she leaves. 0:05:05.676 --> 0:05:08.236 I've spent so long hearing from all these people who 0:05:08.236 --> 0:05:11.796 say that they've been calm by Leslie. Today I finally 0:05:11.796 --> 0:05:14.036 got a shot at asking her about all this stuff, 0:05:14.516 --> 0:05:19.436 what really happened in Tahoe, San Diego, Hawaii and with 0:05:19.476 --> 0:05:22.316 my family in New Zealand. But I might only have 0:05:22.396 --> 0:05:24.996 one shot at talking to Leslie, so I need to 0:05:25.036 --> 0:05:29.036 be prepared, cool and calm. We retreat away from the 0:05:29.036 --> 0:05:32.516 car park to finalize our plan. Then it's all on. 0:05:34.236 --> 0:05:37.836 Welcome to Unravel Season four. I'm Olly WADA's and this 0:05:38.276 --> 0:05:38.956 is Snowball. 0:05:52.316 --> 0:05:55.276 It's been ten years now since I last saw Leslie Manukin. 0:05:56.596 --> 0:05:58.596 It took me most of these ten years to get 0:05:58.636 --> 0:06:01.636 past the destruction and lies that women left a new week. 0:06:02.876 --> 0:06:06.116 When my investigation led me to California, my brother gave 0:06:06.156 --> 0:06:08.676 me this letter for Cameron, the guy you heard from 0:06:08.756 --> 0:06:10.876 last year episode who owned phenomenal restaurant. 0:06:13.476 --> 0:06:16.276 I don't know you other than we share a terrible 0:06:16.316 --> 0:06:20.236 experience at the hands of Leslie Minuchiin. It takes a 0:06:20.276 --> 0:06:25.756 while to get through it, but you will. Perversely, it 0:06:25.796 --> 0:06:28.836 will help you knowing there are many more victims. It's 0:06:28.876 --> 0:06:31.116 not such a lonely place when you think it's just you. 0:06:33.676 --> 0:06:36.036 For a long time, I wanted to believe that it 0:06:36.076 --> 0:06:39.516 was just me. That Leslie desperately wanted to start a 0:06:39.556 --> 0:06:43.076 new life in New Zealand, and she felt compelled to 0:06:43.116 --> 0:06:47.596 do anything to stay here. This was the emotional side 0:06:47.636 --> 0:06:52.476 of the equation I believe Leslie plays on. Even after 0:06:52.516 --> 0:06:56.316 I saw the evidence, she still played on my emotions 0:06:56.516 --> 0:07:01.436 with cute names and crap. Given your relationship with her, 0:07:02.236 --> 0:07:04.956 you too would have heard all the stories about how 0:07:04.996 --> 0:07:07.956 she has been a victim of different people. And there 0:07:07.956 --> 0:07:11.236 will be a multitude of the stories, but I'm sure 0:07:11.316 --> 0:07:17.876 they'll all be falling down now exposed as lies. I 0:07:17.956 --> 0:07:21.076 really hope that you're okay and can get yourself sorted 0:07:21.196 --> 0:07:27.556 and back on your feet. Best regards, Greg Wards. 0:07:29.476 --> 0:07:32.076 That's just part of the letter in the full thing. 0:07:32.316 --> 0:07:35.476 Greg also suggested to Cameron that Leslie could be busted 0:07:35.476 --> 0:07:38.076 for what she had done, but it seems like the 0:07:38.116 --> 0:07:40.396 only thing that's actually going to catch up with her 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:44.276 is me. I think I've learned a lot about how 0:07:44.356 --> 0:07:47.556 Leslie operates, but I'm no pro at this kind of thing. 0:07:47.916 --> 0:07:50.476 I normally stick to coming up with dumb radio talkback 0:07:50.516 --> 0:07:55.996 topics before I try to talk one on one with Leslie. 0:07:56.196 --> 0:07:57.596 I want some expert help. 0:07:58.436 --> 0:08:03.196 I'm Maria Kadikova. I am an author, psychologist and a 0:08:03.236 --> 0:08:04.356 professional poker player. 0:08:04.396 --> 0:08:08.636 Now Maria Konnikova, aside from having a name combining two 0:08:08.716 --> 0:08:11.796 Russian tennis players, knows what I might be up against 0:08:12.036 --> 0:08:15.756 and more. She's a doctor of psychology and she spent 0:08:15.916 --> 0:08:18.796 three years interviewing conn artists for her book called The 0:08:18.876 --> 0:08:23.356 Confidence Game. Maria says con artists aren't just liars. 0:08:24.196 --> 0:08:28.396 The term actually means confidence artist and it comes from confidence, 0:08:28.516 --> 0:08:31.236 not in the sense of how confident you are, but 0:08:31.316 --> 0:08:35.516 in the sense of confidence as in trust. It's not 0:08:35.636 --> 0:08:38.196 enough to just kind of commit fraud, for instance, lasts 0:08:38.196 --> 0:08:40.516 of people commit fraud and aren't just criminals, they're not 0:08:40.596 --> 0:08:43.796 con artists. And it's not enough to just kind of 0:08:43.836 --> 0:08:46.116 lie to someone you're just a liar. Then you're still 0:08:46.156 --> 0:08:48.556 not a con artist. So you need to satisfy all 0:08:48.596 --> 0:08:50.516 of those things. You need to gain someone's trust and 0:08:50.516 --> 0:08:54.756 take advantage of it for the express purpose of getting 0:08:54.796 --> 0:08:57.476 something that you want that they're not aware of. 0:08:58.076 --> 0:09:00.956 That does seem to apply to Leslie's past. She definitely 0:09:00.956 --> 0:09:03.716 had some plans going on in the background. I also 0:09:03.796 --> 0:09:07.076 ask Maria for some tactics that might get Leslie talking. 0:09:07.116 --> 0:09:11.116 Stroke Kerr ego. That's actually my number one piece of advice. 0:09:11.596 --> 0:09:14.116 The reason that con artists were willing to talk to me, 0:09:14.276 --> 0:09:17.436 even knowing exactly what I was doing, knowing that I 0:09:17.556 --> 0:09:22.036 was writing about them, was because they're very egotistical. They're narcissists. 0:09:22.116 --> 0:09:24.756 They love being the center of attention, and they're proud 0:09:24.756 --> 0:09:28.396 of what they do. So don't be confrontational. Instead say 0:09:28.436 --> 0:09:31.316 you know, I realize you're a good person. I know 0:09:32.156 --> 0:09:34.556 use their own tactics on them. They stroke your ego. 0:09:34.596 --> 0:09:36.196 That's how they get to you, So do it right 0:09:36.196 --> 0:09:38.076 back to them. 0:09:38.756 --> 0:09:39.676 We'll be right back. 0:09:41.436 --> 0:09:44.396 So if Lislie is anything like the con artists Maria 0:09:44.396 --> 0:09:46.796 has spoken to, I need to look out for flattery 0:09:47.276 --> 0:09:51.236 for her and from her. Now I have that swirling 0:09:51.276 --> 0:09:54.236 around in my brain, along with trying to be friendly 0:09:54.356 --> 0:09:57.996 enough to keep Leslie talking while also being firm enough 0:09:58.036 --> 0:10:02.076 to get some answers no worries. That's not the only 0:10:02.236 --> 0:10:05.636 challenge I'm facing on our ricky. Earlier, we found another 0:10:05.676 --> 0:10:09.796 potential issue. The supermarket has two entrances, and Leslie could 0:10:09.916 --> 0:10:12.876 leave from either of them, so we plan to split up. 0:10:13.356 --> 0:10:15.516 Simon will drive to the other side of the car park. 0:10:15.836 --> 0:10:18.476 If he sees Leslie, he'll stay in the car. I 0:10:18.476 --> 0:10:21.276 don't want her to feel outnumbered. We drive over to 0:10:21.276 --> 0:10:23.956 the supermarket. We get there around the time we think 0:10:24.036 --> 0:10:29.356 Leslie's shift might end. Heybro, are you in position? Yeah? 0:10:29.436 --> 0:10:33.236 I'm just like a clear view. 0:10:33.676 --> 0:10:36.756 So now we wait. As we sit there, some dudes 0:10:36.796 --> 0:10:39.396 go past. That give me some confidence we're blending in 0:10:39.756 --> 0:10:43.996 So funny because some guys just drove past similar muscle 0:10:44.036 --> 0:10:46.236 car with baseball caps on and I even thought it 0:10:46.276 --> 0:10:49.636 was me driving past. It's amazing. As the minutes tick by, 0:10:50.076 --> 0:10:54.916 I start getting cold feet. I could have just stayed 0:10:54.916 --> 0:10:58.076 at home. I didn't need to be doing this. It's 0:10:58.116 --> 0:11:02.636 twelve years ago. Everything's fine. It's gone and making life 0:11:02.636 --> 0:11:06.476 difficult for yourself wards. But I pulled myself together. I 0:11:06.556 --> 0:11:08.916 call Simon back to check him. Have you got a 0:11:08.916 --> 0:11:10.396 good spot on that second door. 0:11:12.916 --> 0:11:15.636 I'll just phone ready to greasy button of Centers. 0:11:15.996 --> 0:11:16.476 I see it. 0:11:16.956 --> 0:11:21.316 Okay, we're ready, but I'm feeling jumpy. I feel like 0:11:21.436 --> 0:11:24.596 I just need to keep talking. We're in the best 0:11:24.596 --> 0:11:27.196 possible park, the closest one to each of the two 0:11:27.356 --> 0:11:31.556 entrances to this strip mall. It's one level kind of 0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:38.436 regional shopping center that you might expect in Bellarat, Geelong, Hamilton. 0:11:39.276 --> 0:11:42.476 And now we're just playing the waiting game for her 0:11:42.516 --> 0:11:45.636 to come out so I can have a chat. Hopefully 0:11:45.716 --> 0:11:49.316 staff leave through this entrance as well. We did drive 0:11:49.356 --> 0:11:55.076 around the back a Simon hey Man's talking just in 0:11:55.156 --> 0:12:00.316 front of your brown the middle street as halfway. 0:12:01.756 --> 0:12:09.356 Okay, I see her, I see her. I'm running to 0:12:09.436 --> 0:12:11.676 it while she's getting in a car. She's getting in 0:12:11.756 --> 0:12:13.556 a car damn it, damnit. 0:12:17.516 --> 0:12:19.276 As I get up to Leslie's car, I hear the 0:12:19.316 --> 0:12:23.276 engine start. She's about to drive away. I try knocking 0:12:23.276 --> 0:12:27.636 on her window and she opens the door just a crack. Hey, Leslie, 0:12:27.756 --> 0:12:30.156 it's Ollie Ward's Hey. 0:12:30.196 --> 0:12:30.636 What's good? 0:12:30.756 --> 0:12:31.636 Hey, how are you doing? 0:12:31.756 --> 0:12:32.676 My god, how are you? 0:12:33.076 --> 0:12:34.636 I'm good. I've got to let you know I'm recording 0:12:34.676 --> 0:12:38.516 this because I'm making a bit of a documentary about 0:12:38.916 --> 0:12:41.996 everything that happens with you and our family, and I 0:12:42.036 --> 0:12:44.236 would love to get your side of the story. 0:12:44.716 --> 0:12:47.836 Wow, okay, well right now, it's not a good time. 0:12:48.116 --> 0:12:49.076 I'm super sorry. 0:12:49.476 --> 0:12:52.916 Yeah, if you can just really quickly tell me in 0:12:52.956 --> 0:12:56.836 thirty seconds, even like I just really wanted to know 0:12:56.836 --> 0:12:59.276 because I never got to see you again, like about 0:12:59.276 --> 0:13:00.596 everything that happened in New Zealand. 0:13:03.196 --> 0:13:06.196 Well, obviously, you know, I'm sure you've heard your parent's side, 0:13:06.196 --> 0:13:07.356 in your brother's. 0:13:06.996 --> 0:13:08.756 Side, and I would love to hear your side. 0:13:08.756 --> 0:13:11.956 Honestly, I would love to give you I would love 0:13:11.996 --> 0:13:14.076 to talk to you seriously. This would but right now 0:13:14.156 --> 0:13:17.196 is honestly, like, honestly not the best time to do this. 0:13:19.676 --> 0:13:21.316 I don't even know what to actually say. You totally 0:13:21.356 --> 0:13:22.036 caught me off guard. 0:13:22.236 --> 0:13:22.476 I know. 0:13:22.716 --> 0:13:25.476 I'm sorry, it's really weird, totally you, it's totainly me. 0:13:25.556 --> 0:13:27.516 What do you mean, It's like, that's just your personality, 0:13:27.556 --> 0:13:29.996 that's how you always have been, just to go get her, 0:13:30.036 --> 0:13:31.956 and you know, you like to get to the bottom 0:13:31.956 --> 0:13:34.076 of stuff and get the story. 0:13:34.116 --> 0:13:35.116 And I appreciate that. 0:13:36.476 --> 0:13:38.956 There is that flattery. The psych Maria told me to 0:13:38.996 --> 0:13:43.036 look out for. Leslie's opened the door less than Arma's length. 0:13:43.436 --> 0:13:46.476 Her engines running, So I just try to keep her talking. 0:13:47.916 --> 0:13:49.916 But I do have somewhere to go. Is there a 0:13:49.956 --> 0:13:51.356 time that we can How are you here? 0:13:52.396 --> 0:13:54.796 I mean, I can catch up with you later today 0:13:55.036 --> 0:13:58.916 or anything, or how about tomorrow? Tomorrow is great, And 0:13:59.076 --> 0:14:01.836 you know, I really do just want to hear your 0:14:01.876 --> 0:14:02.596 side of the story. 0:14:02.636 --> 0:14:05.116 And Allie, I totally believe you, one hundred percent, and 0:14:05.156 --> 0:14:07.156 I would love to tell my side of the story 0:14:07.156 --> 0:14:10.636 because I think I was unfair in some ways, for sure, 0:14:11.956 --> 0:14:13.996 but I think that everything could have been handled in 0:14:14.076 --> 0:14:16.436 a completely different, different way. And I'll start with that 0:14:16.516 --> 0:14:18.836 and maybe we can elaborate a little bit more tomorrow. 0:14:19.156 --> 0:14:21.836 That sounds like some sort of admission that Leslie knows 0:14:21.956 --> 0:14:25.596 she's made some bad decisions. But it's vague. She seems 0:14:25.676 --> 0:14:28.076 keen to meet up tomorrow and go through things, which 0:14:28.116 --> 0:14:30.956 is surprising me. She even gives me her number, no 0:14:30.956 --> 0:14:31.796 grab a number. 0:14:31.636 --> 0:14:34.516 Or something, you know, not a problem name for night. 0:14:34.596 --> 0:14:36.836 Okay, hang on, I'll just take this down. But I 0:14:36.836 --> 0:14:38.956 don't want to count on that happening, so I quickly 0:14:38.996 --> 0:14:40.996 ask another question. I know, you see that you kind 0:14:40.996 --> 0:14:44.076 of felt like it was unfair from both sides or anything. 0:14:44.076 --> 0:14:46.156 If you could elaborate at least a little. 0:14:45.916 --> 0:14:51.356 Bit, Well, I just feel that, I just feel that 0:14:51.476 --> 0:14:52.236 we should. 0:14:51.956 --> 0:14:54.916 Have all been able to sit down and have an 0:14:54.956 --> 0:14:58.996 adult conversation and to be really honest, Ali, I blame 0:14:58.996 --> 0:15:01.756 your brother a little bit for not kind of kind 0:15:01.756 --> 0:15:04.476 of stepping up and kind of pulling your parents and 0:15:04.476 --> 0:15:07.236 I together as one and letting us sit down and 0:15:07.276 --> 0:15:10.916 actually have a conversation about why I did some of 0:15:10.956 --> 0:15:12.956 the things I did to make things happen. 0:15:13.196 --> 0:15:14.636 You know, you know my. 0:15:14.636 --> 0:15:19.116 Intent was never hurt anybody, of course, But yeah, there's 0:15:19.396 --> 0:15:22.356 a lot could I could say, but go ahead, just 0:15:22.476 --> 0:15:23.836 like you. 0:15:23.836 --> 0:15:25.996 Never came back. I mean, it was twelve years ago, 0:15:26.036 --> 0:15:27.756 and did you think about it? 0:15:27.876 --> 0:15:29.236 Your brother never once called me. 0:15:29.836 --> 0:15:32.436 He never once called you after not after. 0:15:32.476 --> 0:15:34.756 The initial couple months of us kind of going back 0:15:34.796 --> 0:15:38.036 and forth and him kind of asking me questions about 0:15:38.076 --> 0:15:43.636 what happened, I got paperwork asking for an annulment and. 0:15:45.316 --> 0:15:46.516 Never never could from again. 0:15:47.116 --> 0:15:49.116 What about the business stuff? I mean, I'm interested as 0:15:49.156 --> 0:15:50.476 to what happened at the Dragonfly. 0:15:51.556 --> 0:15:57.276 Well, you know, the Dragonfly was kind of a yeah, 0:15:57.276 --> 0:16:01.476 it was kind of one of those situations where you know, 0:16:01.596 --> 0:16:04.196 I I did the best I could. I got in 0:16:04.236 --> 0:16:07.196 over my head, got Greg got in over his head. 0:16:08.076 --> 0:16:10.716 I didn't do my due diligence like I should have either, 0:16:10.996 --> 0:16:13.836 So you know, I was a big, big fault at that. 0:16:14.196 --> 0:16:16.796 But again I didn't have the support that I needed, 0:16:16.836 --> 0:16:19.836 the back support to see what we can do to 0:16:19.996 --> 0:16:22.756 make this better. You know, my my only reaction to 0:16:22.796 --> 0:16:24.476 the whole situation is let me go home to mom 0:16:24.516 --> 0:16:26.996 and dad, sit down, talk to them, see what we 0:16:27.036 --> 0:16:28.876 can do about it. But then the second I got 0:16:28.956 --> 0:16:31.436 back to America, it was you. 0:16:31.316 --> 0:16:34.316 Did this, this, this, this, this, this, instead of we 0:16:34.356 --> 0:16:34.796 all did it. 0:16:34.836 --> 0:16:37.276 We all made the decisions together, and we we all 0:16:38.396 --> 0:16:41.436 I'm not to say to blame, but I just think 0:16:41.476 --> 0:16:44.676 from an adult situation, I don't think it was handled 0:16:44.716 --> 0:16:45.996 the way it could have been. 0:16:46.116 --> 0:16:48.516 That's all that I didn't like. 0:16:48.556 --> 0:16:51.156 I said, it wasn't to go there and screw your 0:16:51.196 --> 0:16:54.076 parents over, and screw Greg over, screw myself over. 0:16:54.156 --> 0:16:54.316 You know. 0:16:54.356 --> 0:16:56.476 I came back with nothing too, you know, and I 0:16:56.516 --> 0:17:00.156 had to start from scratch, you know. But your brother 0:17:00.276 --> 0:17:04.396 never once tried to try to pull us all in. 0:17:04.476 --> 0:17:07.676 He never came here, nothing, nothing. So what was I 0:17:07.716 --> 0:17:08.516 really supposed to do? 0:17:08.596 --> 0:17:10.796 All right? She's doing a pretty good job of making 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:13.156 things sound like it was just a failed business venture 0:17:13.396 --> 0:17:16.676 a failed marriage. But Lesley doesn't know how long I've 0:17:16.716 --> 0:17:19.236 been working on this. The documents people have given me 0:17:19.596 --> 0:17:24.596 evidence of possible fraud, fake bank statements, court documents, police reports, 0:17:24.836 --> 0:17:27.676 even a fake lawyer. She doesn't know that I know 0:17:27.716 --> 0:17:30.356 all of that stuff, but I think it's on her mind. 0:17:30.396 --> 0:17:35.996 I think I feel that maybe some of the the 0:17:37.356 --> 0:17:39.556 ways that I went about trying to get the loans 0:17:39.556 --> 0:17:41.556 and stuff maybe weren't totally kosher. 0:17:41.916 --> 0:17:44.276 Yeah, can you explain that? And what do you mean 0:17:44.316 --> 0:17:44.516 by that? 0:17:45.156 --> 0:17:48.276 Well, what I mean by that is like I could 0:17:48.356 --> 0:17:51.636 have revealed my finances more instead of not. 0:17:51.916 --> 0:17:54.036 I didn't reveal them the way I should have, you know. 0:17:54.276 --> 0:17:56.436 But so that was kind of on me. 0:17:56.996 --> 0:18:01.356 Describing everything is not totally kosher seems like an understatement. 0:18:00.916 --> 0:18:05.116 But yeah, I mean really, I don't really honestly know 0:18:05.156 --> 0:18:07.956 what else is much more to say, but that, you know. 0:18:08.116 --> 0:18:11.596 I mean, like I said, I came back here and 0:18:11.636 --> 0:18:14.396 it was a lot of just a lot of phone calls, 0:18:14.396 --> 0:18:16.196 a lot of blame, a lot of well, you know, 0:18:16.636 --> 0:18:19.676 send me. I asked so many times, Allie to get 0:18:19.836 --> 0:18:22.476 paperwork to send stuff to me. All I received was 0:18:22.516 --> 0:18:25.476 some paperwork saying that, you know, I needed to sign 0:18:25.556 --> 0:18:28.036 over the business, which I did immediately. I signed everything 0:18:28.076 --> 0:18:30.676 over everything that they needed I did, you know, right 0:18:30.716 --> 0:18:33.356 from the start. I didn't try to not do that, 0:18:33.716 --> 0:18:38.156 but the fact that your brother never came here, like yeah, 0:18:39.116 --> 0:18:41.796 to try and even sit down with me and my 0:18:41.916 --> 0:18:43.996 parents and like, let me show you my side, let 0:18:44.036 --> 0:18:46.116 me you know, like I'm not I can't come back 0:18:46.116 --> 0:18:47.796 there because you guys already told me if I stepped 0:18:47.796 --> 0:18:50.276 foot in your country, I was going to jail. So 0:18:50.796 --> 0:18:54.156 how could I possibly come and fight my side? 0:18:54.876 --> 0:18:59.436 Yeah, and I appreciate this as upsetting for you obviously, 0:18:59.636 --> 0:19:00.116 you know, but. 0:19:00.276 --> 0:19:03.676 End upsetting For the last oh years, Allie, I never 0:19:03.756 --> 0:19:04.476 got closure. 0:19:05.596 --> 0:19:07.916 I never got to say goodbye to your brother. I 0:19:08.116 --> 0:19:10.236 truly loved him, So. 0:19:12.196 --> 0:19:15.436 Anyways, what would be the closure that you would want? 0:19:16.116 --> 0:19:20.356 It's too late now, I don't I just would have 0:19:20.396 --> 0:19:25.156 loved to have said goodbye and sorry for any mistakes 0:19:25.236 --> 0:19:28.036 I made or bad decisions I made, and I would 0:19:28.076 --> 0:19:32.036 have loved to have I would have loved to for 0:19:32.156 --> 0:19:33.876 him to have just a little harder. 0:19:34.916 --> 0:19:37.996 I'm feeling a bit rattled. I didn't expect Lesley to 0:19:37.996 --> 0:19:40.756 start crying or to even vaguely concede that she had 0:19:40.836 --> 0:19:44.196 made bad decisions. But the biggest shock is who she 0:19:44.236 --> 0:19:46.956 thinks was at fault. I thought maybe Mum and Dad 0:19:46.956 --> 0:19:50.636 would copy it. Instead, she's saying Greg should have tried 0:19:50.676 --> 0:19:51.316 to win her back. 0:19:51.716 --> 0:19:54.596 I would have loved to have had an adult conversation 0:19:54.676 --> 0:19:56.356 and sit down and go through all the numbers, have 0:19:56.476 --> 0:20:00.036 the bank guy there, everything. I even offered to do that, 0:20:00.196 --> 0:20:01.876 you know, and then all of a sudden, it was 0:20:01.956 --> 0:20:02.796 don't come back here. 0:20:03.036 --> 0:20:04.676 And that's what I was told over and over. 0:20:05.276 --> 0:20:07.836 I have to stop myself from challenging Leslie on that 0:20:08.316 --> 0:20:10.996 she could hit the gas at any second. What I 0:20:11.076 --> 0:20:13.396 really want to do is ask her about some of 0:20:13.436 --> 0:20:15.676 the things that might be hard for her to explain. 0:20:16.356 --> 0:20:17.396 What about the trust fund? 0:20:17.996 --> 0:20:18.636 What about it? 0:20:18.756 --> 0:20:21.596 Like, so you know, I just it's it seems like 0:20:22.756 --> 0:20:24.476 do you still have it or I do not? 0:20:24.996 --> 0:20:25.516 No, I do not. 0:20:25.956 --> 0:20:29.156 As Leslie speaks, I'm listening and frantically tapping at my 0:20:29.156 --> 0:20:31.436 phone to bring up some of that evidence that I've got. 0:20:31.516 --> 0:20:34.276 I just want to show you just a document that 0:20:34.436 --> 0:20:37.236 I that I've recovered on my phone. I have the 0:20:37.276 --> 0:20:40.356 documents that convinced Kiwi Bank to hand over a one 0:20:40.396 --> 0:20:44.196 point five million dollar loan, the loan my parents guaranteed, 0:20:44.716 --> 0:20:47.156 thinking that Leslie was putting her trust fund on the 0:20:47.196 --> 0:20:49.276 line alongside them. Like I said, I've been doing a 0:20:49.436 --> 0:20:51.516 fair bit of digging around just to try and understand 0:20:51.556 --> 0:20:56.476 everything that happened. And so I'm just showing you this 0:20:57.076 --> 0:20:58.996 thing on my phone right now, which is a Bank 0:20:59.036 --> 0:21:01.396 of America statement. Can you have a look at that 0:21:01.436 --> 0:21:02.276 and tell me what it is? 0:21:03.236 --> 0:21:08.396 Okay, from my trust fund, Colonial trust? Yeah, what about it? 0:21:08.916 --> 0:21:12.196 Well, it's a bit weird because the the numbers kind 0:21:12.196 --> 0:21:13.756 of trail off on a little bit of an angle. 0:21:13.876 --> 0:21:17.396 So that's okay, So you had about five million in there. 0:21:17.356 --> 0:21:19.596 Right, Okay, Yeah, that's what it says. 0:21:20.356 --> 0:21:22.716 But it's just a bit weird because then the number 0:21:22.876 --> 0:21:26.396 trails off on a little angle down on the side here, 0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:31.236 and if you actually add these four numbers. With these 0:21:31.236 --> 0:21:33.796 four numbers, it's some starting balance, money in, money out 0:21:33.796 --> 0:21:36.356 closing balance. It's actually wrong by about six hundred and 0:21:36.396 --> 0:21:37.236 sixteen dollars. 0:21:37.476 --> 0:21:39.916 Oh wow, Okay, that. 0:21:39.876 --> 0:21:42.196 Seems a bit weird for a bank statement, right, yeah, 0:21:42.196 --> 0:21:45.156 it sure does. And because the other thing is I 0:21:45.316 --> 0:21:50.276 found that statement, but I also found this Barclay bank 0:21:50.316 --> 0:21:53.996 statement which was a joint account between you and Greg, 0:21:54.396 --> 0:21:58.196