1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,236 --> 00:00:26,476 Speaker 2: This episode contains occasional course language. 3 00:00:27,076 --> 00:00:27,596 Speaker 3: Here we go. 4 00:00:28,516 --> 00:00:31,516 Speaker 4: Oh man, it's like game day for a sportsperson that's 5 00:00:31,556 --> 00:00:35,236 Speaker 4: been training for ages, but only as thirty seconds on 6 00:00:35,236 --> 00:00:39,676 Speaker 4: the field to kind of prove themselves. My brother, Simon 7 00:00:39,716 --> 00:00:43,236 Speaker 4: and I are in our ridiculous American muscle car. After 8 00:00:43,316 --> 00:00:46,276 Speaker 4: months of investigating, today might be the day I come 9 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:49,836 Speaker 4: face to face with Leslie Minuchian. You know how sometimes 10 00:00:49,836 --> 00:00:53,156 Speaker 4: people say that they have butterflies in their stomach, Well, 11 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:56,596 Speaker 4: I reckon minds more like bats flying out of a cave, 12 00:00:56,756 --> 00:01:00,036 Speaker 4: all heaps of them at once. The trail has led 13 00:01:00,076 --> 00:01:04,116 Speaker 4: me to this small Californian town called San Luis Obispo. 14 00:01:04,476 --> 00:01:07,156 Speaker 4: Leslie was spotted restocking shelves in a supermarket here in 15 00:01:07,156 --> 00:01:09,556 Speaker 4: the last year or so. So we're on our way 16 00:01:09,596 --> 00:01:13,516 Speaker 4: to that supermarket. All right, microphones in the incognito position 17 00:01:13,756 --> 00:01:15,916 Speaker 4: down in the center of the car, sitting in between 18 00:01:15,956 --> 00:01:17,076 Speaker 4: Simon and I. 19 00:01:16,756 --> 00:01:17,756 Speaker 2: Hope you guys can hear us. 20 00:01:17,796 --> 00:01:21,036 Speaker 4: Okay, all the people have been speaking to from her past, 21 00:01:21,276 --> 00:01:24,556 Speaker 4: they all say Leslie won't talk. But I've traveled across 22 00:01:24,596 --> 00:01:27,076 Speaker 4: the world to be here, and I've just got to 23 00:01:27,076 --> 00:01:30,996 Speaker 4: get Leslie's side of this story. We're pulling into the 24 00:01:31,036 --> 00:01:36,316 Speaker 4: workplace that Leslie's at we're about to be at, and 25 00:01:37,796 --> 00:01:39,956 Speaker 4: she could be in the traffic around us as we 26 00:01:40,036 --> 00:01:42,596 Speaker 4: drive around. At this stage, we just want to scoop 27 00:01:42,636 --> 00:01:45,676 Speaker 4: the place out and confirm Leslie still works here. Then 28 00:01:45,796 --> 00:01:48,596 Speaker 4: we'll figure out how I approach her. Before we've made 29 00:01:48,596 --> 00:01:51,516 Speaker 4: a plan. We really don't want to be spotted. Now, 30 00:01:51,556 --> 00:01:56,876 Speaker 4: we play the incognito waiting game. We sit for a 31 00:01:56,916 --> 00:02:00,836 Speaker 4: while hoping to spot Leslie. Young supermarket staff walk through 32 00:02:00,876 --> 00:02:03,356 Speaker 4: the car park to start their shift. This guy's going 33 00:02:03,356 --> 00:02:06,876 Speaker 4: in there wearing his apron. So I wonder if there's 34 00:02:06,916 --> 00:02:13,436 Speaker 4: a uniform like from your uniform, right, yeah, true mufty, Yeah, 35 00:02:14,556 --> 00:02:17,316 Speaker 4: you're not in casual, Just wear what you want. It 36 00:02:17,396 --> 00:02:20,356 Speaker 4: feels like everything around us is in slow motion. We're 37 00:02:20,396 --> 00:02:24,156 Speaker 4: on high alert, sitting up like merecats, looking around the Savannah. 38 00:02:24,276 --> 00:02:27,596 Speaker 4: Simon's pointing to a black car pulling up. Oh man, 39 00:02:29,156 --> 00:02:32,156 Speaker 4: oh wow, we could be on here. I honestly think 40 00:02:32,156 --> 00:02:32,876 Speaker 4: we could be on here. 41 00:02:33,436 --> 00:02:37,476 Speaker 2: A female black hair can imagine her kind of driving 42 00:02:37,516 --> 00:02:38,236 Speaker 2: a car like that. 43 00:02:41,356 --> 00:02:42,516 Speaker 4: That honestly looks like her. 44 00:02:42,556 --> 00:02:54,876 Speaker 2: Bro, that's that's Minuchi in mate. She's hopping out. 45 00:02:58,956 --> 00:03:03,836 Speaker 4: No, it's not her. As we sit here, it seems 46 00:03:03,876 --> 00:03:09,916 Speaker 4: like everybody could be who we're looking for it. She 47 00:03:09,956 --> 00:03:13,516 Speaker 4: doesn't looked too far off yet, though it's close Leslie. 48 00:03:13,956 --> 00:03:16,556 Speaker 4: There's only one more thing to do. I need to 49 00:03:16,596 --> 00:03:19,156 Speaker 4: go into the supermarket and see if I can see her. 50 00:03:19,676 --> 00:03:23,156 Speaker 4: I'm just going to brave a full incognito mode look 51 00:03:23,236 --> 00:03:28,596 Speaker 4: around in the supermarket. Why because I want to confirm 52 00:03:28,636 --> 00:03:30,956 Speaker 4: that she is there. I reckon I can do it 53 00:03:30,996 --> 00:03:34,956 Speaker 4: without being spotted. It's risky. I don't want to talk 54 00:03:34,996 --> 00:03:38,316 Speaker 4: to Leslie actually inside where she works. I don't want 55 00:03:38,356 --> 00:03:41,436 Speaker 4: to create a scene at her workplace, and if she 56 00:03:41,516 --> 00:03:43,796 Speaker 4: sees me, she might sneak off through a back entrance 57 00:03:43,916 --> 00:03:49,156 Speaker 4: or something. Okay, here we go walking through the car park. 58 00:03:52,876 --> 00:03:55,116 Speaker 4: Maybe the New Zealand accent will give me a wife, 59 00:03:55,236 --> 00:03:58,316 Speaker 4: so I should sort of keep it a little low. 60 00:03:59,476 --> 00:04:01,436 Speaker 4: This might be crazy risky, but I'm going to go 61 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:09,636 Speaker 4: even deeper into the supermarket. Hell man, this is this 62 00:04:09,756 --> 00:04:12,276 Speaker 4: is some hectic stuff. I'm in the shampoo aisle. 63 00:04:13,716 --> 00:04:18,716 Speaker 5: Oh okay, if the heart is racing, I'm going down 64 00:04:18,756 --> 00:04:21,916 Speaker 5: the kind of main aisle now I'm going to peel out. 65 00:04:22,716 --> 00:04:28,716 Speaker 5: Couldn't spot her behind the cashiers is looking further down. 66 00:04:28,756 --> 00:04:32,036 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, there she is. Absolutely that's her. She's 67 00:04:32,076 --> 00:04:37,996 Speaker 5: working in the customer service aisle, and I reckon I 68 00:04:38,076 --> 00:04:40,036 Speaker 5: might be able to get a long shot. 69 00:04:41,836 --> 00:04:42,196 Speaker 2: All right. 70 00:04:44,716 --> 00:04:46,796 Speaker 4: When I come out of the supermarket, Simon is off 71 00:04:46,836 --> 00:04:49,076 Speaker 4: in the car watching the other entrance. I want to 72 00:04:49,156 --> 00:04:51,596 Speaker 4: check if I'm right. I sent you a little screenshot 73 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:53,796 Speaker 4: and have a look at it, and you tell me 74 00:04:53,796 --> 00:04:54,516 Speaker 4: if that's her or not. 75 00:04:55,516 --> 00:04:57,516 Speaker 2: And as one hundred percent I just saw I didn't 76 00:04:57,516 --> 00:04:58,396 Speaker 2: even have to look towards. 77 00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:03,116 Speaker 4: Now that we know that Leslie's in there, we just 78 00:05:03,196 --> 00:05:04,956 Speaker 4: have to be able to spot her when she leaves. 79 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:08,236 Speaker 4: I've spent so long hearing from all these people who 80 00:05:08,236 --> 00:05:11,796 Speaker 4: say that they've been calm by Leslie. Today I finally 81 00:05:11,796 --> 00:05:14,036 Speaker 4: got a shot at asking her about all this stuff, 82 00:05:14,516 --> 00:05:19,436 Speaker 4: what really happened in Tahoe, San Diego, Hawaii and with 83 00:05:19,476 --> 00:05:22,316 Speaker 4: my family in New Zealand. But I might only have 84 00:05:22,396 --> 00:05:24,996 Speaker 4: one shot at talking to Leslie, so I need to 85 00:05:25,036 --> 00:05:29,036 Speaker 4: be prepared, cool and calm. We retreat away from the 86 00:05:29,036 --> 00:05:32,516 Speaker 4: car park to finalize our plan. Then it's all on. 87 00:05:34,236 --> 00:05:37,836 Speaker 4: Welcome to Unravel Season four. I'm Olly WADA's and this 88 00:05:38,276 --> 00:05:38,956 Speaker 4: is Snowball. 89 00:05:52,316 --> 00:05:55,276 Speaker 1: It's been ten years now since I last saw Leslie Manukin. 90 00:05:56,596 --> 00:05:58,596 Speaker 1: It took me most of these ten years to get 91 00:05:58,636 --> 00:06:01,636 Speaker 1: past the destruction and lies that women left a new week. 92 00:06:02,876 --> 00:06:06,116 Speaker 4: When my investigation led me to California, my brother gave 93 00:06:06,156 --> 00:06:08,676 Speaker 4: me this letter for Cameron, the guy you heard from 94 00:06:08,756 --> 00:06:10,876 Speaker 4: last year episode who owned phenomenal restaurant. 95 00:06:13,476 --> 00:06:16,276 Speaker 1: I don't know you other than we share a terrible 96 00:06:16,316 --> 00:06:20,236 Speaker 1: experience at the hands of Leslie Minuchiin. It takes a 97 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:25,756 Speaker 1: while to get through it, but you will. Perversely, it 98 00:06:25,796 --> 00:06:28,836 Speaker 1: will help you knowing there are many more victims. It's 99 00:06:28,876 --> 00:06:31,116 Speaker 1: not such a lonely place when you think it's just you. 100 00:06:33,676 --> 00:06:36,036 Speaker 1: For a long time, I wanted to believe that it 101 00:06:36,076 --> 00:06:39,516 Speaker 1: was just me. That Leslie desperately wanted to start a 102 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:43,076 Speaker 1: new life in New Zealand, and she felt compelled to 103 00:06:43,116 --> 00:06:47,596 Speaker 1: do anything to stay here. This was the emotional side 104 00:06:47,636 --> 00:06:52,476 Speaker 1: of the equation I believe Leslie plays on. Even after 105 00:06:52,516 --> 00:06:56,316 Speaker 1: I saw the evidence, she still played on my emotions 106 00:06:56,516 --> 00:07:01,436 Speaker 1: with cute names and crap. Given your relationship with her, 107 00:07:02,236 --> 00:07:04,956 Speaker 1: you too would have heard all the stories about how 108 00:07:04,996 --> 00:07:07,956 Speaker 1: she has been a victim of different people. And there 109 00:07:07,956 --> 00:07:11,236 Speaker 1: will be a multitude of the stories, but I'm sure 110 00:07:11,316 --> 00:07:17,876 Speaker 1: they'll all be falling down now exposed as lies. I 111 00:07:17,956 --> 00:07:21,076 Speaker 1: really hope that you're okay and can get yourself sorted 112 00:07:21,196 --> 00:07:27,556 Speaker 1: and back on your feet. Best regards, Greg Wards. 113 00:07:29,476 --> 00:07:32,076 Speaker 4: That's just part of the letter in the full thing. 114 00:07:32,316 --> 00:07:35,476 Speaker 4: Greg also suggested to Cameron that Leslie could be busted 115 00:07:35,476 --> 00:07:38,076 Speaker 4: for what she had done, but it seems like the 116 00:07:38,116 --> 00:07:40,396 Speaker 4: only thing that's actually going to catch up with her 117 00:07:41,076 --> 00:07:44,276 Speaker 4: is me. I think I've learned a lot about how 118 00:07:44,356 --> 00:07:47,556 Speaker 4: Leslie operates, but I'm no pro at this kind of thing. 119 00:07:47,916 --> 00:07:50,476 Speaker 4: I normally stick to coming up with dumb radio talkback 120 00:07:50,516 --> 00:07:55,996 Speaker 4: topics before I try to talk one on one with Leslie. 121 00:07:56,196 --> 00:07:57,596 Speaker 4: I want some expert help. 122 00:07:58,436 --> 00:08:03,196 Speaker 6: I'm Maria Kadikova. I am an author, psychologist and a 123 00:08:03,236 --> 00:08:04,356 Speaker 6: professional poker player. 124 00:08:04,396 --> 00:08:08,636 Speaker 4: Now Maria Konnikova, aside from having a name combining two 125 00:08:08,716 --> 00:08:11,796 Speaker 4: Russian tennis players, knows what I might be up against 126 00:08:12,036 --> 00:08:15,756 Speaker 4: and more. She's a doctor of psychology and she spent 127 00:08:15,916 --> 00:08:18,796 Speaker 4: three years interviewing conn artists for her book called The 128 00:08:18,876 --> 00:08:23,356 Speaker 4: Confidence Game. Maria says con artists aren't just liars. 129 00:08:24,196 --> 00:08:28,396 Speaker 6: The term actually means confidence artist and it comes from confidence, 130 00:08:28,516 --> 00:08:31,236 Speaker 6: not in the sense of how confident you are, but 131 00:08:31,316 --> 00:08:35,516 Speaker 6: in the sense of confidence as in trust. It's not 132 00:08:35,636 --> 00:08:38,196 Speaker 6: enough to just kind of commit fraud, for instance, lasts 133 00:08:38,196 --> 00:08:40,516 Speaker 6: of people commit fraud and aren't just criminals, they're not 134 00:08:40,596 --> 00:08:43,796 Speaker 6: con artists. And it's not enough to just kind of 135 00:08:43,836 --> 00:08:46,116 Speaker 6: lie to someone you're just a liar. Then you're still 136 00:08:46,156 --> 00:08:48,556 Speaker 6: not a con artist. So you need to satisfy all 137 00:08:48,596 --> 00:08:50,516 Speaker 6: of those things. You need to gain someone's trust and 138 00:08:50,516 --> 00:08:54,756 Speaker 6: take advantage of it for the express purpose of getting 139 00:08:54,796 --> 00:08:57,476 Speaker 6: something that you want that they're not aware of. 140 00:08:58,076 --> 00:09:00,956 Speaker 4: That does seem to apply to Leslie's past. She definitely 141 00:09:00,956 --> 00:09:03,716 Speaker 4: had some plans going on in the background. I also 142 00:09:03,796 --> 00:09:07,076 Speaker 4: ask Maria for some tactics that might get Leslie talking. 143 00:09:07,116 --> 00:09:11,116 Speaker 6: Stroke Kerr ego. That's actually my number one piece of advice. 144 00:09:11,596 --> 00:09:14,116 Speaker 6: The reason that con artists were willing to talk to me, 145 00:09:14,276 --> 00:09:17,436 Speaker 6: even knowing exactly what I was doing, knowing that I 146 00:09:17,556 --> 00:09:22,036 Speaker 6: was writing about them, was because they're very egotistical. They're narcissists. 147 00:09:22,116 --> 00:09:24,756 Speaker 6: They love being the center of attention, and they're proud 148 00:09:24,756 --> 00:09:28,396 Speaker 6: of what they do. So don't be confrontational. Instead say 149 00:09:28,436 --> 00:09:31,316 Speaker 6: you know, I realize you're a good person. I know 150 00:09:32,156 --> 00:09:34,556 Speaker 6: use their own tactics on them. They stroke your ego. 151 00:09:34,596 --> 00:09:36,196 Speaker 6: That's how they get to you, So do it right 152 00:09:36,196 --> 00:09:38,076 Speaker 6: back to them. 153 00:09:38,756 --> 00:09:39,676 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 154 00:09:41,436 --> 00:09:44,396 Speaker 4: So if Lislie is anything like the con artists Maria 155 00:09:44,396 --> 00:09:46,796 Speaker 4: has spoken to, I need to look out for flattery 156 00:09:47,276 --> 00:09:51,236 Speaker 4: for her and from her. Now I have that swirling 157 00:09:51,276 --> 00:09:54,236 Speaker 4: around in my brain, along with trying to be friendly 158 00:09:54,356 --> 00:09:57,996 Speaker 4: enough to keep Leslie talking while also being firm enough 159 00:09:58,036 --> 00:10:02,076 Speaker 4: to get some answers no worries. That's not the only 160 00:10:02,236 --> 00:10:05,636 Speaker 4: challenge I'm facing on our ricky. Earlier, we found another 161 00:10:05,676 --> 00:10:09,796 Speaker 4: potential issue. The supermarket has two entrances, and Leslie could 162 00:10:09,916 --> 00:10:12,876 Speaker 4: leave from either of them, so we plan to split up. 163 00:10:13,356 --> 00:10:15,516 Speaker 4: Simon will drive to the other side of the car park. 164 00:10:15,836 --> 00:10:18,476 Speaker 4: If he sees Leslie, he'll stay in the car. I 165 00:10:18,476 --> 00:10:21,276 Speaker 4: don't want her to feel outnumbered. We drive over to 166 00:10:21,276 --> 00:10:23,956 Speaker 4: the supermarket. We get there around the time we think 167 00:10:24,036 --> 00:10:29,356 Speaker 4: Leslie's shift might end. Heybro, are you in position? Yeah? 168 00:10:29,436 --> 00:10:33,236 Speaker 2: I'm just like a clear view. 169 00:10:33,676 --> 00:10:36,756 Speaker 4: So now we wait. As we sit there, some dudes 170 00:10:36,796 --> 00:10:39,396 Speaker 4: go past. That give me some confidence we're blending in 171 00:10:39,756 --> 00:10:43,996 Speaker 4: So funny because some guys just drove past similar muscle 172 00:10:44,036 --> 00:10:46,236 Speaker 4: car with baseball caps on and I even thought it 173 00:10:46,276 --> 00:10:49,636 Speaker 4: was me driving past. It's amazing. As the minutes tick by, 174 00:10:50,076 --> 00:10:54,916 Speaker 4: I start getting cold feet. I could have just stayed 175 00:10:54,916 --> 00:10:58,076 Speaker 4: at home. I didn't need to be doing this. It's 176 00:10:58,116 --> 00:11:02,636 Speaker 4: twelve years ago. Everything's fine. It's gone and making life 177 00:11:02,636 --> 00:11:06,476 Speaker 4: difficult for yourself wards. But I pulled myself together. I 178 00:11:06,556 --> 00:11:08,916 Speaker 4: call Simon back to check him. Have you got a 179 00:11:08,916 --> 00:11:10,396 Speaker 4: good spot on that second door. 180 00:11:12,916 --> 00:11:15,636 Speaker 2: I'll just phone ready to greasy button of Centers. 181 00:11:15,996 --> 00:11:16,476 Speaker 1: I see it. 182 00:11:16,956 --> 00:11:21,316 Speaker 4: Okay, we're ready, but I'm feeling jumpy. I feel like 183 00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:24,596 Speaker 4: I just need to keep talking. We're in the best 184 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:27,196 Speaker 4: possible park, the closest one to each of the two 185 00:11:27,356 --> 00:11:31,556 Speaker 4: entrances to this strip mall. It's one level kind of 186 00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:38,436 Speaker 4: regional shopping center that you might expect in Bellarat, Geelong, Hamilton. 187 00:11:39,276 --> 00:11:42,476 Speaker 4: And now we're just playing the waiting game for her 188 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:45,636 Speaker 4: to come out so I can have a chat. Hopefully 189 00:11:45,716 --> 00:11:49,316 Speaker 4: staff leave through this entrance as well. We did drive 190 00:11:49,356 --> 00:11:55,076 Speaker 4: around the back a Simon hey Man's talking just in 191 00:11:55,156 --> 00:12:00,316 Speaker 4: front of your brown the middle street as halfway. 192 00:12:01,756 --> 00:12:09,356 Speaker 7: Okay, I see her, I see her. I'm running to 193 00:12:09,436 --> 00:12:11,676 Speaker 7: it while she's getting in a car. She's getting in 194 00:12:11,756 --> 00:12:13,556 Speaker 7: a car damn it, damnit. 195 00:12:17,516 --> 00:12:19,276 Speaker 4: As I get up to Leslie's car, I hear the 196 00:12:19,316 --> 00:12:23,276 Speaker 4: engine start. She's about to drive away. I try knocking 197 00:12:23,276 --> 00:12:27,636 Speaker 4: on her window and she opens the door just a crack. Hey, Leslie, 198 00:12:27,756 --> 00:12:30,156 Speaker 4: it's Ollie Ward's Hey. 199 00:12:30,196 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 3: What's good? 200 00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:31,636 Speaker 4: Hey, how are you doing? 201 00:12:31,756 --> 00:12:32,676 Speaker 3: My god, how are you? 202 00:12:33,076 --> 00:12:34,636 Speaker 4: I'm good. I've got to let you know I'm recording 203 00:12:34,676 --> 00:12:38,516 Speaker 4: this because I'm making a bit of a documentary about 204 00:12:38,916 --> 00:12:41,996 Speaker 4: everything that happens with you and our family, and I 205 00:12:42,036 --> 00:12:44,236 Speaker 4: would love to get your side of the story. 206 00:12:44,716 --> 00:12:47,836 Speaker 3: Wow, okay, well right now, it's not a good time. 207 00:12:48,116 --> 00:12:49,076 Speaker 3: I'm super sorry. 208 00:12:49,476 --> 00:12:52,916 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you can just really quickly tell me in 209 00:12:52,956 --> 00:12:56,836 Speaker 4: thirty seconds, even like I just really wanted to know 210 00:12:56,836 --> 00:12:59,276 Speaker 4: because I never got to see you again, like about 211 00:12:59,276 --> 00:13:00,596 Speaker 4: everything that happened in New Zealand. 212 00:13:03,196 --> 00:13:06,196 Speaker 8: Well, obviously, you know, I'm sure you've heard your parent's side, 213 00:13:06,196 --> 00:13:07,356 Speaker 8: in your brother's. 214 00:13:06,996 --> 00:13:08,756 Speaker 4: Side, and I would love to hear your side. 215 00:13:08,756 --> 00:13:11,956 Speaker 8: Honestly, I would love to give you I would love 216 00:13:11,996 --> 00:13:14,076 Speaker 8: to talk to you seriously. This would but right now 217 00:13:14,156 --> 00:13:17,196 Speaker 8: is honestly, like, honestly not the best time to do this. 218 00:13:19,676 --> 00:13:21,316 Speaker 8: I don't even know what to actually say. You totally 219 00:13:21,356 --> 00:13:22,036 Speaker 8: caught me off guard. 220 00:13:22,236 --> 00:13:22,476 Speaker 5: I know. 221 00:13:22,716 --> 00:13:25,476 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, it's really weird, totally you, it's totainly me. 222 00:13:25,556 --> 00:13:27,516 Speaker 8: What do you mean, It's like, that's just your personality, 223 00:13:27,556 --> 00:13:29,996 Speaker 8: that's how you always have been, just to go get her, 224 00:13:30,036 --> 00:13:31,956 Speaker 8: and you know, you like to get to the bottom 225 00:13:31,956 --> 00:13:34,076 Speaker 8: of stuff and get the story. 226 00:13:34,116 --> 00:13:35,116 Speaker 3: And I appreciate that. 227 00:13:36,476 --> 00:13:38,956 Speaker 4: There is that flattery. The psych Maria told me to 228 00:13:38,996 --> 00:13:43,036 Speaker 4: look out for. Leslie's opened the door less than Arma's length. 229 00:13:43,436 --> 00:13:46,476 Speaker 4: Her engines running, So I just try to keep her talking. 230 00:13:47,916 --> 00:13:49,916 Speaker 3: But I do have somewhere to go. Is there a 231 00:13:49,956 --> 00:13:51,356 Speaker 3: time that we can How are you here? 232 00:13:52,396 --> 00:13:54,796 Speaker 4: I mean, I can catch up with you later today 233 00:13:55,036 --> 00:13:58,916 Speaker 4: or anything, or how about tomorrow? Tomorrow is great, And 234 00:13:59,076 --> 00:14:01,836 Speaker 4: you know, I really do just want to hear your 235 00:14:01,876 --> 00:14:02,596 Speaker 4: side of the story. 236 00:14:02,636 --> 00:14:05,116 Speaker 8: And Allie, I totally believe you, one hundred percent, and 237 00:14:05,156 --> 00:14:07,156 Speaker 8: I would love to tell my side of the story 238 00:14:07,156 --> 00:14:10,636 Speaker 8: because I think I was unfair in some ways, for sure, 239 00:14:11,956 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 8: but I think that everything could have been handled in 240 00:14:14,076 --> 00:14:16,436 Speaker 8: a completely different, different way. And I'll start with that 241 00:14:16,516 --> 00:14:18,836 Speaker 8: and maybe we can elaborate a little bit more tomorrow. 242 00:14:19,156 --> 00:14:21,836 Speaker 4: That sounds like some sort of admission that Leslie knows 243 00:14:21,956 --> 00:14:25,596 Speaker 4: she's made some bad decisions. But it's vague. She seems 244 00:14:25,676 --> 00:14:28,076 Speaker 4: keen to meet up tomorrow and go through things, which 245 00:14:28,116 --> 00:14:30,956 Speaker 4: is surprising me. She even gives me her number, no 246 00:14:30,956 --> 00:14:31,796 Speaker 4: grab a number. 247 00:14:31,636 --> 00:14:34,516 Speaker 3: Or something, you know, not a problem name for night. 248 00:14:34,596 --> 00:14:36,836 Speaker 4: Okay, hang on, I'll just take this down. But I 249 00:14:36,836 --> 00:14:38,956 Speaker 4: don't want to count on that happening, so I quickly 250 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:40,996 Speaker 4: ask another question. I know, you see that you kind 251 00:14:40,996 --> 00:14:44,076 Speaker 4: of felt like it was unfair from both sides or anything. 252 00:14:44,076 --> 00:14:46,156 Speaker 4: If you could elaborate at least a little. 253 00:14:45,916 --> 00:14:51,356 Speaker 3: Bit, Well, I just feel that, I just feel that 254 00:14:51,476 --> 00:14:52,236 Speaker 3: we should. 255 00:14:51,956 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 8: Have all been able to sit down and have an 256 00:14:54,956 --> 00:14:58,996 Speaker 8: adult conversation and to be really honest, Ali, I blame 257 00:14:58,996 --> 00:15:01,756 Speaker 8: your brother a little bit for not kind of kind 258 00:15:01,756 --> 00:15:04,476 Speaker 8: of stepping up and kind of pulling your parents and 259 00:15:04,476 --> 00:15:07,236 Speaker 8: I together as one and letting us sit down and 260 00:15:07,276 --> 00:15:10,916 Speaker 8: actually have a conversation about why I did some of 261 00:15:10,956 --> 00:15:12,956 Speaker 8: the things I did to make things happen. 262 00:15:13,196 --> 00:15:14,636 Speaker 3: You know, you know my. 263 00:15:14,636 --> 00:15:19,116 Speaker 8: Intent was never hurt anybody, of course, But yeah, there's 264 00:15:19,396 --> 00:15:22,356 Speaker 8: a lot could I could say, but go ahead, just 265 00:15:22,476 --> 00:15:23,836 Speaker 8: like you. 266 00:15:23,836 --> 00:15:25,996 Speaker 4: Never came back. I mean, it was twelve years ago, 267 00:15:26,036 --> 00:15:27,756 Speaker 4: and did you think about it? 268 00:15:27,876 --> 00:15:29,236 Speaker 3: Your brother never once called me. 269 00:15:29,836 --> 00:15:32,436 Speaker 4: He never once called you after not after. 270 00:15:32,476 --> 00:15:34,756 Speaker 8: The initial couple months of us kind of going back 271 00:15:34,796 --> 00:15:38,036 Speaker 8: and forth and him kind of asking me questions about 272 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:43,636 Speaker 8: what happened, I got paperwork asking for an annulment and. 273 00:15:45,316 --> 00:15:46,516 Speaker 3: Never never could from again. 274 00:15:47,116 --> 00:15:49,116 Speaker 4: What about the business stuff? I mean, I'm interested as 275 00:15:49,156 --> 00:15:50,476 Speaker 4: to what happened at the Dragonfly. 276 00:15:51,556 --> 00:15:57,276 Speaker 8: Well, you know, the Dragonfly was kind of a yeah, 277 00:15:57,276 --> 00:16:01,476 Speaker 8: it was kind of one of those situations where you know, 278 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:04,196 Speaker 8: I I did the best I could. I got in 279 00:16:04,236 --> 00:16:07,196 Speaker 8: over my head, got Greg got in over his head. 280 00:16:08,076 --> 00:16:10,716 Speaker 8: I didn't do my due diligence like I should have either, 281 00:16:10,996 --> 00:16:13,836 Speaker 8: So you know, I was a big, big fault at that. 282 00:16:14,196 --> 00:16:16,796 Speaker 8: But again I didn't have the support that I needed, 283 00:16:16,836 --> 00:16:19,836 Speaker 8: the back support to see what we can do to 284 00:16:19,996 --> 00:16:22,756 Speaker 8: make this better. You know, my my only reaction to 285 00:16:22,796 --> 00:16:24,476 Speaker 8: the whole situation is let me go home to mom 286 00:16:24,516 --> 00:16:26,996 Speaker 8: and dad, sit down, talk to them, see what we 287 00:16:27,036 --> 00:16:28,876 Speaker 8: can do about it. But then the second I got 288 00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:31,436 Speaker 8: back to America, it was you. 289 00:16:31,316 --> 00:16:34,316 Speaker 3: Did this, this, this, this, this, this, instead of we 290 00:16:34,356 --> 00:16:34,796 Speaker 3: all did it. 291 00:16:34,836 --> 00:16:37,276 Speaker 8: We all made the decisions together, and we we all 292 00:16:38,396 --> 00:16:41,436 Speaker 8: I'm not to say to blame, but I just think 293 00:16:41,476 --> 00:16:44,676 Speaker 8: from an adult situation, I don't think it was handled 294 00:16:44,716 --> 00:16:45,996 Speaker 8: the way it could have been. 295 00:16:46,116 --> 00:16:48,516 Speaker 3: That's all that I didn't like. 296 00:16:48,556 --> 00:16:51,156 Speaker 8: I said, it wasn't to go there and screw your 297 00:16:51,196 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 8: parents over, and screw Greg over, screw myself over. 298 00:16:54,156 --> 00:16:54,316 Speaker 3: You know. 299 00:16:54,356 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 8: I came back with nothing too, you know, and I 300 00:16:56,516 --> 00:17:00,156 Speaker 8: had to start from scratch, you know. But your brother 301 00:17:00,276 --> 00:17:04,396 Speaker 8: never once tried to try to pull us all in. 302 00:17:04,476 --> 00:17:07,676 Speaker 8: He never came here, nothing, nothing. So what was I 303 00:17:07,716 --> 00:17:08,516 Speaker 8: really supposed to do? 304 00:17:08,596 --> 00:17:10,796 Speaker 4: All right? She's doing a pretty good job of making 305 00:17:10,796 --> 00:17:13,156 Speaker 4: things sound like it was just a failed business venture 306 00:17:13,396 --> 00:17:16,676 Speaker 4: a failed marriage. But Lesley doesn't know how long I've 307 00:17:16,716 --> 00:17:19,236 Speaker 4: been working on this. The documents people have given me 308 00:17:19,596 --> 00:17:24,596 Speaker 4: evidence of possible fraud, fake bank statements, court documents, police reports, 309 00:17:24,836 --> 00:17:27,676 Speaker 4: even a fake lawyer. She doesn't know that I know 310 00:17:27,716 --> 00:17:30,356 Speaker 4: all of that stuff, but I think it's on her mind. 311 00:17:30,396 --> 00:17:35,996 Speaker 8: I think I feel that maybe some of the the 312 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:39,556 Speaker 8: ways that I went about trying to get the loans 313 00:17:39,556 --> 00:17:41,556 Speaker 8: and stuff maybe weren't totally kosher. 314 00:17:41,916 --> 00:17:44,276 Speaker 4: Yeah, can you explain that? And what do you mean 315 00:17:44,316 --> 00:17:44,516 Speaker 4: by that? 316 00:17:45,156 --> 00:17:48,276 Speaker 8: Well, what I mean by that is like I could 317 00:17:48,356 --> 00:17:51,636 Speaker 8: have revealed my finances more instead of not. 318 00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:54,036 Speaker 3: I didn't reveal them the way I should have, you know. 319 00:17:54,276 --> 00:17:56,436 Speaker 3: But so that was kind of on me. 320 00:17:56,996 --> 00:18:01,356 Speaker 4: Describing everything is not totally kosher seems like an understatement. 321 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:05,116 Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean really, I don't really honestly know 322 00:18:05,156 --> 00:18:07,956 Speaker 8: what else is much more to say, but that, you know. 323 00:18:08,116 --> 00:18:11,596 Speaker 8: I mean, like I said, I came back here and 324 00:18:11,636 --> 00:18:14,396 Speaker 8: it was a lot of just a lot of phone calls, 325 00:18:14,396 --> 00:18:16,196 Speaker 8: a lot of blame, a lot of well, you know, 326 00:18:16,636 --> 00:18:19,676 Speaker 8: send me. I asked so many times, Allie to get 327 00:18:19,836 --> 00:18:22,476 Speaker 8: paperwork to send stuff to me. All I received was 328 00:18:22,516 --> 00:18:25,476 Speaker 8: some paperwork saying that, you know, I needed to sign 329 00:18:25,556 --> 00:18:28,036 Speaker 8: over the business, which I did immediately. I signed everything 330 00:18:28,076 --> 00:18:30,676 Speaker 8: over everything that they needed I did, you know, right 331 00:18:30,716 --> 00:18:33,356 Speaker 8: from the start. I didn't try to not do that, 332 00:18:33,716 --> 00:18:38,156 Speaker 8: but the fact that your brother never came here, like yeah, 333 00:18:39,116 --> 00:18:41,796 Speaker 8: to try and even sit down with me and my 334 00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:43,996 Speaker 8: parents and like, let me show you my side, let 335 00:18:44,036 --> 00:18:46,116 Speaker 8: me you know, like I'm not I can't come back 336 00:18:46,116 --> 00:18:47,796 Speaker 8: there because you guys already told me if I stepped 337 00:18:47,796 --> 00:18:50,276 Speaker 8: foot in your country, I was going to jail. So 338 00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:54,156 Speaker 8: how could I possibly come and fight my side? 339 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:59,436 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I appreciate this as upsetting for you obviously, 340 00:18:59,636 --> 00:19:00,116 Speaker 4: you know, but. 341 00:19:00,276 --> 00:19:03,676 Speaker 8: End upsetting For the last oh years, Allie, I never 342 00:19:03,756 --> 00:19:04,476 Speaker 8: got closure. 343 00:19:05,596 --> 00:19:07,916 Speaker 3: I never got to say goodbye to your brother. I 344 00:19:08,116 --> 00:19:10,236 Speaker 3: truly loved him, So. 345 00:19:12,196 --> 00:19:15,436 Speaker 4: Anyways, what would be the closure that you would want? 346 00:19:16,116 --> 00:19:20,356 Speaker 9: It's too late now, I don't I just would have 347 00:19:20,396 --> 00:19:25,156 Speaker 9: loved to have said goodbye and sorry for any mistakes 348 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:28,036 Speaker 9: I made or bad decisions I made, and I would 349 00:19:28,076 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 9: have loved to have I would have loved to for 350 00:19:32,156 --> 00:19:33,876 Speaker 9: him to have just a little harder. 351 00:19:34,916 --> 00:19:37,996 Speaker 4: I'm feeling a bit rattled. I didn't expect Lesley to 352 00:19:37,996 --> 00:19:40,756 Speaker 4: start crying or to even vaguely concede that she had 353 00:19:40,836 --> 00:19:44,196 Speaker 4: made bad decisions. But the biggest shock is who she 354 00:19:44,236 --> 00:19:46,956 Speaker 4: thinks was at fault. I thought maybe Mum and Dad 355 00:19:46,956 --> 00:19:50,636 Speaker 4: would copy it. Instead, she's saying Greg should have tried 356 00:19:50,676 --> 00:19:51,316 Speaker 4: to win her back. 357 00:19:51,716 --> 00:19:54,596 Speaker 8: I would have loved to have had an adult conversation 358 00:19:54,676 --> 00:19:56,356 Speaker 8: and sit down and go through all the numbers, have 359 00:19:56,476 --> 00:20:00,036 Speaker 8: the bank guy there, everything. I even offered to do that, 360 00:20:00,196 --> 00:20:01,876 Speaker 8: you know, and then all of a sudden, it was 361 00:20:01,956 --> 00:20:02,796 Speaker 8: don't come back here. 362 00:20:03,036 --> 00:20:04,676 Speaker 3: And that's what I was told over and over. 363 00:20:05,276 --> 00:20:07,836 Speaker 4: I have to stop myself from challenging Leslie on that 364 00:20:08,316 --> 00:20:10,996 Speaker 4: she could hit the gas at any second. What I 365 00:20:11,076 --> 00:20:13,396 Speaker 4: really want to do is ask her about some of 366 00:20:13,436 --> 00:20:15,676 Speaker 4: the things that might be hard for her to explain. 367 00:20:16,356 --> 00:20:17,396 Speaker 4: What about the trust fund? 368 00:20:17,996 --> 00:20:18,636 Speaker 3: What about it? 369 00:20:18,756 --> 00:20:21,596 Speaker 4: Like, so you know, I just it's it seems like 370 00:20:22,756 --> 00:20:24,476 Speaker 4: do you still have it or I do not? 371 00:20:24,996 --> 00:20:25,516 Speaker 3: No, I do not. 372 00:20:25,956 --> 00:20:29,156 Speaker 4: As Leslie speaks, I'm listening and frantically tapping at my 373 00:20:29,156 --> 00:20:31,436 Speaker 4: phone to bring up some of that evidence that I've got. 374 00:20:31,516 --> 00:20:34,276 Speaker 4: I just want to show you just a document that 375 00:20:34,436 --> 00:20:37,236 Speaker 4: I that I've recovered on my phone. I have the 376 00:20:37,276 --> 00:20:40,356 Speaker 4: documents that convinced Kiwi Bank to hand over a one 377 00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:44,196 Speaker 4: point five million dollar loan, the loan my parents guaranteed, 378 00:20:44,716 --> 00:20:47,156 Speaker 4: thinking that Leslie was putting her trust fund on the 379 00:20:47,196 --> 00:20:49,276 Speaker 4: line alongside them. Like I said, I've been doing a 380 00:20:49,436 --> 00:20:51,516 Speaker 4: fair bit of digging around just to try and understand 381 00:20:51,556 --> 00:20:56,476 Speaker 4: everything that happened. And so I'm just showing you this 382 00:20:57,076 --> 00:20:58,996 Speaker 4: thing on my phone right now, which is a Bank 383 00:20:59,036 --> 00:21:01,396 Speaker 4: of America statement. Can you have a look at that 384 00:21:01,436 --> 00:21:02,276 Speaker 4: and tell me what it is? 385 00:21:03,236 --> 00:21:08,396 Speaker 3: Okay, from my trust fund, Colonial trust? Yeah, what about it? 386 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:12,196 Speaker 4: Well, it's a bit weird because the the numbers kind 387 00:21:12,196 --> 00:21:13,756 Speaker 4: of trail off on a little bit of an angle. 388 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:17,396 Speaker 4: So that's okay, So you had about five million in there. 389 00:21:17,356 --> 00:21:19,596 Speaker 3: Right, Okay, Yeah, that's what it says. 390 00:21:20,356 --> 00:21:22,716 Speaker 4: But it's just a bit weird because then the number 391 00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:26,396 Speaker 4: trails off on a little angle down on the side here, 392 00:21:27,596 --> 00:21:31,236 Speaker 4: and if you actually add these four numbers. With these 393 00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:33,796 Speaker 4: four numbers, it's some starting balance, money in, money out 394 00:21:33,796 --> 00:21:36,356 Speaker 4: closing balance. It's actually wrong by about six hundred and 395 00:21:36,396 --> 00:21:37,236 Speaker 4: sixteen dollars. 396 00:21:37,476 --> 00:21:39,916 Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay, that. 397 00:21:39,876 --> 00:21:42,196 Speaker 4: Seems a bit weird for a bank statement, right, yeah, 398 00:21:42,196 --> 00:21:45,156 Speaker 4: it sure does. And because the other thing is I 399 00:21:45,316 --> 00:21:50,276 Speaker 4: found that statement, but I also found this Barclay bank 400 00:21:50,316 --> 00:21:53,996 Speaker 4: statement which was a joint account between you and Greg, 401 00:21:54,396 --> 00:21:58,196 Speaker 4: which looks really similar like it's it's got you know, 402 00:21:58,516 --> 00:22:01,276 Speaker 4: the same things, money in, money out, closing balance, the 403 00:22:01,356 --> 00:22:04,996 Speaker 4: formats the same the you know, Dad. 404 00:22:04,716 --> 00:22:09,476 Speaker 8: Had said something about this too many years ago, something 405 00:22:09,516 --> 00:22:10,516 Speaker 8: about banks tampens. 406 00:22:10,596 --> 00:22:11,996 Speaker 3: Is this what he was referring to? 407 00:22:12,636 --> 00:22:16,196 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean even the barcode is the same on 408 00:22:16,236 --> 00:22:16,996 Speaker 4: the two statements. 409 00:22:17,716 --> 00:22:20,356 Speaker 8: I believe I remember him saying something about that. And no, 410 00:22:20,476 --> 00:22:27,556 Speaker 8: I don't have an explanation for that. Okay, I don't 411 00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:28,236 Speaker 8: know what to tell you. 412 00:22:28,796 --> 00:22:32,596 Speaker 4: We've heard how Leslie always has a story, but with 413 00:22:32,716 --> 00:22:35,836 Speaker 4: those documents on my screen right in front of her, 414 00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:39,316 Speaker 4: she doesn't know what to say, those are the ones. 415 00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:42,196 Speaker 3: I just forwarded. I didn't write. Those were forwarded to. 416 00:22:43,516 --> 00:22:46,596 Speaker 4: The from you to Kiwibank to Kiwi Bank. 417 00:22:46,636 --> 00:22:48,076 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I remember those. 418 00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:51,836 Speaker 4: But do you think it's a bit fishy that that 419 00:22:52,396 --> 00:22:54,076 Speaker 4: statement looks the same as the other one and it 420 00:22:54,116 --> 00:22:56,116 Speaker 4: was forwarded from you to I haven't really. 421 00:22:55,956 --> 00:22:57,756 Speaker 8: Looked at him looked at him, but if you want 422 00:22:57,796 --> 00:22:59,276 Speaker 8: to send him to me, I mean, I can give 423 00:22:59,276 --> 00:23:02,076 Speaker 8: you an answer right now. But yeah, it kind of 424 00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:06,036 Speaker 8: looks sishy, but I don't know like what to say. 425 00:23:06,356 --> 00:23:10,076 Speaker 4: Okay, cool, Okay. Leslie specifically is that she was just 426 00:23:10,316 --> 00:23:13,556 Speaker 4: forwarding things on to Kiwibank. I know who sent them 427 00:23:13,556 --> 00:23:17,916 Speaker 4: to her. It was her old mate, Eric t Weiss Esquire. 428 00:23:18,476 --> 00:23:20,716 Speaker 4: He's the lawyer Leslie would use for her bank headmin 429 00:23:21,116 --> 00:23:24,356 Speaker 4: as well as her supposed book and movie deal. The guy, 430 00:23:24,436 --> 00:23:27,916 Speaker 4: we're pretty damn sure doesn't exist. I want to ask 431 00:23:27,916 --> 00:23:31,676 Speaker 4: about Eric, but I want to start gently. Can you 432 00:23:31,676 --> 00:23:33,996 Speaker 4: tell me about your lawyer, Eric t Weiss? 433 00:23:34,076 --> 00:23:35,236 Speaker 3: Okay, what about him? 434 00:23:35,516 --> 00:23:36,196 Speaker 4: What's his deal? 435 00:23:37,236 --> 00:23:39,956 Speaker 3: He's just my attorney, that's all. I mean. 436 00:23:40,996 --> 00:23:43,036 Speaker 8: I haven't talked to him in a few years. But yeah, 437 00:23:43,236 --> 00:23:44,276 Speaker 8: that's that's about it. 438 00:23:44,316 --> 00:23:44,556 Speaker 3: Why. 439 00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:47,036 Speaker 4: I tried to look up a lawyer called Eric t 440 00:23:47,156 --> 00:23:49,116 Speaker 4: Weiss and I noticed that you're one he. 441 00:23:49,156 --> 00:23:51,356 Speaker 3: Hit Los Angeles. 442 00:23:51,396 --> 00:23:53,716 Speaker 4: Uh huh, Okay, could you put me in touch with him? 443 00:23:53,756 --> 00:23:55,236 Speaker 4: Do you think sure? 444 00:23:55,276 --> 00:23:56,476 Speaker 3: I mean if I have his phone numbers? 445 00:23:56,476 --> 00:23:57,876 Speaker 8: So, like I said, I haven't talked to him in 446 00:23:57,916 --> 00:23:58,996 Speaker 8: a couple of years, but I can give you the 447 00:23:59,076 --> 00:23:59,956 Speaker 8: last known number for him. 448 00:23:59,996 --> 00:24:01,436 Speaker 3: I'd be happy to no problem. 449 00:24:01,596 --> 00:24:04,956 Speaker 4: Leslie's sticking with her story about Eric, so I'm thinking 450 00:24:05,196 --> 00:24:09,196 Speaker 4: I can roll with this. So Eric t Weiss, he 451 00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:13,476 Speaker 4: it was helping you. You were writing a book, right, mm hmmm. 452 00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:15,476 Speaker 4: And what ended up happening with that? 453 00:24:16,556 --> 00:24:19,236 Speaker 3: Never got published? Actually? Yeah? 454 00:24:19,276 --> 00:24:21,036 Speaker 4: And what was that? The story of your life? 455 00:24:21,236 --> 00:24:22,116 Speaker 3: Story of my life? 456 00:24:22,556 --> 00:24:26,396 Speaker 4: H Can you tell me about what happened with it? 457 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:28,436 Speaker 3: No, it just never got published. 458 00:24:28,436 --> 00:24:31,396 Speaker 8: We we actually sent it out to a few publishers 459 00:24:31,476 --> 00:24:34,876 Speaker 8: and I think about ten or twelve just got you know, 460 00:24:35,636 --> 00:24:38,196 Speaker 8: it's it's a chance you take. I don't know, like 461 00:24:38,396 --> 00:24:38,956 Speaker 8: what to say? 462 00:24:39,316 --> 00:24:42,676 Speaker 4: Okay? Cool? And just on the letter that was sent 463 00:24:42,796 --> 00:24:47,676 Speaker 4: from Eric t Weiss to Kiwibank. Along with these statements 464 00:24:48,316 --> 00:24:50,796 Speaker 4: in the email, it gave a phone number for Kiwibanks 465 00:24:50,836 --> 00:24:54,436 Speaker 4: to call if they had any questions, and that was 466 00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:58,196 Speaker 4: actually the number for your parents place in California, What 467 00:24:58,236 --> 00:24:58,836 Speaker 4: do you make of that. 468 00:24:59,596 --> 00:25:00,596 Speaker 3: It was the same phone number? 469 00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:06,556 Speaker 8: No, I don't know, uh uh why and so why 470 00:25:06,596 --> 00:25:07,876 Speaker 8: did kiwibank. 471 00:25:07,476 --> 00:25:08,556 Speaker 3: Not call and verify? 472 00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:11,196 Speaker 4: They did, and they spoke to somebody, So I was 473 00:25:11,236 --> 00:25:12,876 Speaker 4: wondering who they would have spoken to that. 474 00:25:13,356 --> 00:25:14,236 Speaker 3: It can't be possible. 475 00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:16,556 Speaker 8: There's no way that my parents would like pretend to 476 00:25:16,596 --> 00:25:18,956 Speaker 8: be somebody, if that's what you're trying to say. 477 00:25:19,116 --> 00:25:22,156 Speaker 4: That number is still in the white pages listed for 478 00:25:22,236 --> 00:25:26,436 Speaker 4: Lesley's parents. I'm just asking the questions, you know, So 479 00:25:26,636 --> 00:25:29,516 Speaker 4: I'm just trying, can I see that or that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, sir, 480 00:25:30,876 --> 00:25:31,556 Speaker 4: because that's. 481 00:25:31,436 --> 00:25:35,356 Speaker 8: Super weird to have a to have my parents' address 482 00:25:35,356 --> 00:25:41,116 Speaker 8: as Eric's contact information. And it's also the bank advisor 483 00:25:41,276 --> 00:25:44,036 Speaker 8: actually spoke with Eric on three different occasions when I 484 00:25:44,076 --> 00:25:46,796 Speaker 8: was sitting in his office, the bank guy that gave 485 00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:49,876 Speaker 8: us a loan, so he would have had the number, 486 00:25:50,036 --> 00:25:51,396 Speaker 8: the direct number. 487 00:25:51,516 --> 00:25:54,196 Speaker 4: You mean he spoke with the Eric ts. 488 00:25:53,876 --> 00:25:56,556 Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, he had to have, I mean to you know, 489 00:25:56,636 --> 00:25:59,596 Speaker 8: get all the financing and get all the approvals and all. 490 00:25:59,396 --> 00:26:00,516 Speaker 3: That kind of stuff, you know. 491 00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:03,636 Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly, and it wasn't just like coming from me, 492 00:26:03,996 --> 00:26:05,836 Speaker 8: like he had to get He had to verify all 493 00:26:05,836 --> 00:26:08,276 Speaker 8: the information. I mean, we went through like a ten 494 00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:12,076 Speaker 8: to twelve days period work. He had to basically take 495 00:26:12,116 --> 00:26:16,156 Speaker 8: all the information and verify it, make sure everything was 496 00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:17,876 Speaker 8: like kosher, you know what I mean. 497 00:26:17,916 --> 00:26:19,916 Speaker 4: So just a second ago, she was saying she could 498 00:26:19,916 --> 00:26:22,876 Speaker 4: have revealed her finances more, but now she's saying everything 499 00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:25,516 Speaker 4: was kosher. I just showed you that the statement that 500 00:26:25,596 --> 00:26:28,636 Speaker 4: he used to show that didn't even add up. 501 00:26:29,076 --> 00:26:31,316 Speaker 8: I understand, Yeah, I know, I see what you're saying. 502 00:26:31,356 --> 00:26:34,876 Speaker 8: But I'm also saying that the bank that gave Greg 503 00:26:34,876 --> 00:26:38,516 Speaker 8: and I the loan, he verified all that information, not 504 00:26:38,756 --> 00:26:41,156 Speaker 8: just through me, like he had to call all of 505 00:26:41,196 --> 00:26:44,476 Speaker 8: the financial institutions in order to verify those funds in 506 00:26:44,556 --> 00:26:45,436 Speaker 8: order to give us alone. 507 00:26:45,756 --> 00:26:48,716 Speaker 4: I want to steer things over to Lesley's parents, Bitty 508 00:26:48,836 --> 00:26:50,876 Speaker 4: and Andrew. Okay, I'd love to have a chat to 509 00:26:50,916 --> 00:26:52,716 Speaker 4: them about what they know about everything as well. If 510 00:26:52,796 --> 00:26:53,916 Speaker 4: would that be okay, I don't know. 511 00:26:53,956 --> 00:26:55,076 Speaker 3: I mean, I'll have to ask him. 512 00:26:55,116 --> 00:26:57,276 Speaker 8: I'll be happy to I mean, you know, I mean, 513 00:26:57,316 --> 00:26:59,156 Speaker 8: it's been a long time, and I'm sure they wouldn't 514 00:26:59,156 --> 00:27:00,756 Speaker 8: have a problem with it. They always liked you, they 515 00:27:00,796 --> 00:27:03,836 Speaker 8: always liked Greg, I mean, you know, and they were 516 00:27:03,876 --> 00:27:06,476 Speaker 8: sad that, you know, stuff happened the way they did. 517 00:27:06,676 --> 00:27:08,876 Speaker 4: There's more I could ask about her parents, but I 518 00:27:08,916 --> 00:27:12,476 Speaker 4: really those questions can be easy to deflect, and before 519 00:27:12,556 --> 00:27:15,076 Speaker 4: Leslie baals, I want to keep hitting as many topics 520 00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:17,356 Speaker 4: as I can. You told me all about your trust 521 00:27:17,356 --> 00:27:21,116 Speaker 4: fund and your bar and Hawaii and all of that stuff, 522 00:27:21,596 --> 00:27:23,596 Speaker 4: Like what was the deal with all that? 523 00:27:24,276 --> 00:27:26,036 Speaker 3: True? That was true? 524 00:27:26,156 --> 00:27:28,036 Speaker 8: I mean I had my bar in Hawaii, at my 525 00:27:28,076 --> 00:27:30,316 Speaker 8: bar in salth Lake Tayle, I owned a restaurant up 526 00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:31,436 Speaker 8: here in Pastor Robless. 527 00:27:31,436 --> 00:27:33,156 Speaker 3: I mean, none of that was lies. 528 00:27:33,676 --> 00:27:36,276 Speaker 4: Interesting, she feels the need to specify none of that 529 00:27:36,516 --> 00:27:38,996 Speaker 4: was lies. Now that she's brought up some of her 530 00:27:38,996 --> 00:27:43,836 Speaker 4: past businesses, I ask about them. Starting with Hawaii, Lizli 531 00:27:43,876 --> 00:27:46,436 Speaker 4: says her problems there happened because she's a mainlander. 532 00:27:46,476 --> 00:27:47,236 Speaker 3: If you do a lot of. 533 00:27:47,236 --> 00:27:50,276 Speaker 8: Research on Hawaii Ali, you'll know what it's like to 534 00:27:50,356 --> 00:27:52,716 Speaker 8: be a howie and go over to those islands and 535 00:27:52,756 --> 00:27:56,996 Speaker 8: try and be successful there with the local Hawaiian people. 536 00:27:57,036 --> 00:27:59,196 Speaker 8: And you can pretty much ask anybody that you'll get 537 00:27:59,236 --> 00:28:02,956 Speaker 8: the same story. So like Hawaii is a very gnarly place. 538 00:28:03,076 --> 00:28:10,676 Speaker 8: It's you can't go there and kind of I guess, 539 00:28:11,236 --> 00:28:13,396 Speaker 8: look at me type of person, which I did. You 540 00:28:13,436 --> 00:28:16,236 Speaker 8: know that the story I told you completely true, And 541 00:28:16,276 --> 00:28:18,036 Speaker 8: it's happened to several other people. 542 00:28:18,796 --> 00:28:21,476 Speaker 4: If I remember rightly, some people kind of like came. 543 00:28:21,796 --> 00:28:24,316 Speaker 4: You told me that they came to like sort of 544 00:28:24,356 --> 00:28:26,316 Speaker 4: break into your place, broke. 545 00:28:26,156 --> 00:28:26,676 Speaker 3: Into my house. 546 00:28:26,916 --> 00:28:30,036 Speaker 8: Police reports are even over there on that broke into 547 00:28:30,076 --> 00:28:30,516 Speaker 8: my house. 548 00:28:30,636 --> 00:28:34,396 Speaker 3: I head under the bed. I've had a lot of trauma. 549 00:28:34,516 --> 00:28:37,556 Speaker 4: You mentioned there was a police report. I've actually got 550 00:28:37,556 --> 00:28:41,676 Speaker 4: a police report from that you filed there about the 551 00:28:41,716 --> 00:28:44,676 Speaker 4: place getting broken into and a ring being stolen and 552 00:28:44,756 --> 00:28:47,276 Speaker 4: you found a knife on your pillow case. So are 553 00:28:47,276 --> 00:28:49,516 Speaker 4: you saying that that was a different incident or. 554 00:28:49,676 --> 00:28:50,796 Speaker 3: That's one of the incidents. 555 00:28:51,236 --> 00:28:53,756 Speaker 8: I'm not really sure. Actually how many reports the police 556 00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:58,396 Speaker 8: actually filed. I'm actually really surprised that one was even there. So, yeah, 557 00:28:58,436 --> 00:29:00,676 Speaker 8: there were several incidences where I called the police more 558 00:29:00,676 --> 00:29:04,116 Speaker 8: than once, Holly, more than once, begging for support, begging 559 00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:07,956 Speaker 8: for them to actually, you know, take care of the 560 00:29:08,036 --> 00:29:13,236 Speaker 8: situation as far as that that situation was concerned, and 561 00:29:13,276 --> 00:29:16,836 Speaker 8: none of that, you know, really matters. Now. I guess 562 00:29:17,236 --> 00:29:20,916 Speaker 8: kind of grown, you know, grown to accept that those 563 00:29:20,956 --> 00:29:22,436 Speaker 8: were the things that were supposed to happen to me, 564 00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:24,396 Speaker 8: you know, same with New Zealand. 565 00:29:25,876 --> 00:29:28,116 Speaker 3: But life is life, you know. 566 00:29:28,156 --> 00:29:30,876 Speaker 8: And you got to you got to move forward from 567 00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:34,276 Speaker 8: it and and learn from your mistakes and try to 568 00:29:34,276 --> 00:29:36,596 Speaker 8: be a better person. And that's what I'm trying to 569 00:29:36,636 --> 00:29:41,116 Speaker 8: do in my life. And I'm really sorry that Greg 570 00:29:41,156 --> 00:29:43,916 Speaker 8: and I never got the closure, you know, but I 571 00:29:43,956 --> 00:29:46,996 Speaker 8: really do wish that he would have given me that 572 00:29:47,476 --> 00:29:50,156 Speaker 8: at least and came and talked to me and asked 573 00:29:50,156 --> 00:29:51,436 Speaker 8: me the story instead of you. 574 00:29:52,316 --> 00:29:53,356 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm glad to see you. 575 00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:58,476 Speaker 4: But as Leslie becomes philosophical with life is life to 576 00:29:58,556 --> 00:30:01,396 Speaker 4: be honest, for a moment, I'm kind of with her. 577 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,556 Speaker 4: Her sort of shit happens attitude is pretty disarming when 578 00:30:05,596 --> 00:30:07,876 Speaker 4: it's off the cuff in the car park. But then 579 00:30:08,116 --> 00:30:11,196 Speaker 4: I remember, I've heard a lot of allegations from a 580 00:30:11,236 --> 00:30:13,836 Speaker 4: lot of people. I need to ask her about them. Yeah, 581 00:30:13,876 --> 00:30:16,276 Speaker 4: I mean, there's just lots of questions I have around 582 00:30:16,836 --> 00:30:20,556 Speaker 4: you know, people have said that you've sort of forged 583 00:30:20,716 --> 00:30:25,236 Speaker 4: checks in the past and signed other people's checks for them. 584 00:30:25,436 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 4: Have you ever done that? 585 00:30:26,276 --> 00:30:28,756 Speaker 3: Wow? Sign other people's checks for them? Oh, I would 586 00:30:28,796 --> 00:30:29,716 Speaker 3: love to know who said that. 587 00:30:29,796 --> 00:30:32,156 Speaker 4: Now, And that's when I start to get into a 588 00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:36,116 Speaker 4: sort of allegation response ping pong. Starting with this stuff 589 00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:40,876 Speaker 4: about checks. Firstly, the Brazilian curfer called Georges, who told 590 00:30:40,916 --> 00:30:43,676 Speaker 4: the cops Leslie had stolen his checkbook and charged up 591 00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:44,516 Speaker 4: thirteen grand. 592 00:30:44,956 --> 00:30:45,916 Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. 593 00:30:46,236 --> 00:30:48,356 Speaker 8: I'd have no idea what he's talking about on that, 594 00:30:48,476 --> 00:30:50,276 Speaker 8: But for him to say I stole a checkbook now, 595 00:30:50,716 --> 00:30:52,676 Speaker 8: he actually stole money from me on a surfboard. 596 00:30:52,996 --> 00:30:55,916 Speaker 4: She refers to Georges by his nickname Joker Joe. 597 00:30:55,876 --> 00:30:57,996 Speaker 8: Didn't even have any money, so I don't even know 598 00:30:58,036 --> 00:31:00,356 Speaker 8: what he's talking about as far as checks are concerned. 599 00:31:00,916 --> 00:31:03,636 Speaker 4: Georges stands by what he told the cops and says 600 00:31:03,676 --> 00:31:07,676 Speaker 4: he never took anything from Leslie. There was also the 601 00:31:07,716 --> 00:31:10,756 Speaker 4: other guy in Hawaii, Scott, who told the police Leslie 602 00:31:10,796 --> 00:31:12,836 Speaker 4: had stolen his credit card and checks. 603 00:31:13,076 --> 00:31:16,876 Speaker 8: If he's who I believe, he is, older, gentleman with 604 00:31:16,956 --> 00:31:22,116 Speaker 8: gray hair. He actually gave me a credit card when 605 00:31:22,156 --> 00:31:24,116 Speaker 8: I was over there in Hawaii, and this is this 606 00:31:24,196 --> 00:31:27,276 Speaker 8: is true story. He gave me a credit card to 607 00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:29,956 Speaker 8: buy supplies for the restaurant, and I went and I 608 00:31:29,996 --> 00:31:31,716 Speaker 8: bought supplies for the restaurant. 609 00:31:32,116 --> 00:31:32,956 Speaker 3: Would not sleep with. 610 00:31:32,956 --> 00:31:34,796 Speaker 8: Him, So then he turned around and called the police 611 00:31:34,836 --> 00:31:36,636 Speaker 8: and said I stole the credit card and bought the 612 00:31:36,716 --> 00:31:37,156 Speaker 8: girl with it. 613 00:31:37,796 --> 00:31:41,236 Speaker 3: That is exactly what happened. Checks were ever involved. He 614 00:31:41,316 --> 00:31:42,596 Speaker 3: never wrote me a check, nothing. 615 00:31:42,916 --> 00:31:45,476 Speaker 4: So what about Tahoe where it seems like there was 616 00:31:45,516 --> 00:31:48,676 Speaker 4: some disputes with the landlord of her bar over unpaid rent. 617 00:31:49,116 --> 00:31:51,076 Speaker 3: I have no clue that would buy you between my 618 00:31:51,156 --> 00:31:53,956 Speaker 3: dad and him. I don't know. My name wasn't listed 619 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:54,836 Speaker 3: on that was it? 620 00:31:55,636 --> 00:31:57,556 Speaker 4: Yes? It is, Yeah, I have no clue. 621 00:31:57,676 --> 00:31:59,276 Speaker 3: Never went to court up there ever once. 622 00:31:59,596 --> 00:32:02,396 Speaker 8: So I got in trouble for a traffic violation up there, 623 00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:02,996 Speaker 8: but that's it. 624 00:32:03,476 --> 00:32:05,356 Speaker 4: I figure it might be harder for her to explain 625 00:32:05,396 --> 00:32:07,476 Speaker 4: what happened when she got hit with charges related to 626 00:32:07,556 --> 00:32:11,436 Speaker 4: check fraud. What about in San Diego and Oceanside No. 627 00:32:11,636 --> 00:32:13,196 Speaker 4: Two thousand and three. 628 00:32:13,116 --> 00:32:14,356 Speaker 3: No, I think I had some charge. 629 00:32:14,396 --> 00:32:17,156 Speaker 8: There was some bank situation, but it got dropped. It 630 00:32:17,196 --> 00:32:19,756 Speaker 8: was nothing that I did wrong, It was nothing illegal. 631 00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:23,236 Speaker 4: You ended up pleading guilty to a misdemeanor for that. 632 00:32:23,596 --> 00:32:26,396 Speaker 4: It was a burglary charge after six felony counts. 633 00:32:26,516 --> 00:32:28,756 Speaker 3: I did not admit guilt to that charge. 634 00:32:28,796 --> 00:32:33,636 Speaker 8: Actually, actually the charges got dropped on that situation because 635 00:32:33,836 --> 00:32:35,716 Speaker 8: it was a checking account that it was open in 636 00:32:35,756 --> 00:32:38,916 Speaker 8: my name and it was just a miscommunication. That was 637 00:32:38,956 --> 00:32:41,356 Speaker 8: a long time ago. I can't give you exactly the details, 638 00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:43,956 Speaker 8: but no, I didn't go to jail for that. I 639 00:32:43,956 --> 00:32:46,676 Speaker 8: didn't get a felony for that either. It was suspended 640 00:32:46,716 --> 00:32:48,876 Speaker 8: because the charges got dropped. So if you did dig 641 00:32:48,916 --> 00:32:50,716 Speaker 8: a little bit further, it would not that there's nothing 642 00:32:50,716 --> 00:32:51,436 Speaker 8: on my record for. 643 00:32:51,396 --> 00:32:54,116 Speaker 4: That at all. Actually, she pleaded guilty to one of 644 00:32:54,156 --> 00:32:57,036 Speaker 4: those charges. But I press on. I want to know 645 00:32:57,076 --> 00:33:01,036 Speaker 4: about Cameron, the phenomenal owner from last episode. Did Leslie 646 00:33:01,076 --> 00:33:02,076 Speaker 4: forge his checks? 647 00:33:02,676 --> 00:33:05,516 Speaker 3: No? Absolutely not. And if he's saying that, then he 648 00:33:05,516 --> 00:33:07,356 Speaker 3: can come and tell me that to my face. 649 00:33:09,116 --> 00:33:11,036 Speaker 4: It's hard to nail down the details on these things 650 00:33:11,116 --> 00:33:13,876 Speaker 4: while I'm just lingering next to her car. I want 651 00:33:13,876 --> 00:33:15,836 Speaker 4: to make sure Leslie feels like she'll get a fair 652 00:33:15,916 --> 00:33:17,276 Speaker 4: hearing when we meet tomorrow. 653 00:33:18,556 --> 00:33:20,236 Speaker 8: So if you want to meet, if you want to 654 00:33:20,276 --> 00:33:22,076 Speaker 8: meet me, or give me a ring and we can 655 00:33:22,116 --> 00:33:24,276 Speaker 8: maybe go have coffee or something and finish us up. 656 00:33:24,516 --> 00:33:25,596 Speaker 3: I will do that for sure. 657 00:33:25,676 --> 00:33:27,756 Speaker 4: That would be great. I would really appreciate that. And 658 00:33:27,796 --> 00:33:29,516 Speaker 4: then you know, you'd be I'll be able to show 659 00:33:29,516 --> 00:33:30,636 Speaker 4: you some of the stuff I've got and you can 660 00:33:30,676 --> 00:33:31,196 Speaker 4: take me through it. 661 00:33:31,356 --> 00:33:33,596 Speaker 3: That would be fine. I'd be happy to do that, really, Ellie. 662 00:33:34,036 --> 00:33:36,276 Speaker 4: All right, Leslie, oh, shake your hand. I'm sorry to 663 00:33:36,476 --> 00:33:38,196 Speaker 4: bail you off on your way out of Okay. 664 00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:42,116 Speaker 3: No, you know what, I'm not shocked. I'm not shocked 665 00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:42,396 Speaker 3: at all. 666 00:33:42,516 --> 00:33:45,236 Speaker 8: Really actually thinking about you the other day, Yeah, I was, 667 00:33:45,276 --> 00:33:47,076 Speaker 8: I don't know, You've kind of popped in my head 668 00:33:47,316 --> 00:33:49,516 Speaker 8: a few days ago, maybe about a week ago or so, 669 00:33:49,796 --> 00:33:51,316 Speaker 8: and I was kind of wondering how you were doing 670 00:33:51,316 --> 00:33:53,396 Speaker 8: and how far you went with your life and stuff, 671 00:33:53,436 --> 00:33:55,636 Speaker 8: and you know, I think often of New Zealand. 672 00:33:55,756 --> 00:33:58,476 Speaker 3: And yeah, so I'm not shocked at all, and I'm 673 00:33:58,516 --> 00:33:58,916 Speaker 3: not mad. 674 00:33:59,036 --> 00:34:01,756 Speaker 8: So you know, there's a lot of things in my life, Ali, 675 00:34:01,876 --> 00:34:03,996 Speaker 8: that I've done that I'm super proud of, and there's 676 00:34:03,996 --> 00:34:05,796 Speaker 8: some stuff that I've done that I'm not either. But 677 00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:08,316 Speaker 8: I think all of us have, you know, And one 678 00:34:08,796 --> 00:34:11,316 Speaker 8: is one one of my biggest regrets is not being 679 00:34:11,356 --> 00:34:14,156 Speaker 8: able to go back to New Zealand and settle stuff 680 00:34:14,196 --> 00:34:16,916 Speaker 8: the way an adult should be able to have the 681 00:34:16,956 --> 00:34:17,796 Speaker 8: opportunity to do. 682 00:34:18,036 --> 00:34:20,156 Speaker 4: It occurs to me that I've asked about stuff from 683 00:34:20,196 --> 00:34:22,476 Speaker 4: the past, But what does she think of what I'm 684 00:34:22,516 --> 00:34:26,036 Speaker 4: doing here? I'm making a podcast which is about everything 685 00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:28,396 Speaker 4: with you and my family. And then obviously I've been 686 00:34:28,436 --> 00:34:30,876 Speaker 4: sort of, you know, looking into what's been happening with 687 00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:33,796 Speaker 4: you over the last you know, twenty odd years or so. 688 00:34:33,796 --> 00:34:34,916 Speaker 4: So what do you think of that? 689 00:34:35,436 --> 00:34:37,676 Speaker 8: I think that if that's something you want to do, 690 00:34:37,756 --> 00:34:39,796 Speaker 8: go for it. You know, I'm not insulted. 691 00:34:39,876 --> 00:34:45,596 Speaker 3: I'm not intimidated by it at all. You know, you 692 00:34:45,636 --> 00:34:47,996 Speaker 3: do what you want to do. Okay. I'm honestly, I 693 00:34:47,996 --> 00:34:48,596 Speaker 3: have nothing to. 694 00:34:48,596 --> 00:34:51,356 Speaker 8: Hide, and I will be as upfront with you as 695 00:34:51,396 --> 00:34:54,036 Speaker 8: I possibly can, with what I can remember and with 696 00:34:54,556 --> 00:34:55,316 Speaker 8: the knowledge I have. 697 00:34:55,556 --> 00:34:56,836 Speaker 3: Okay, I will. 698 00:34:56,636 --> 00:34:58,476 Speaker 4: Give you that a cool thing you might like as 699 00:34:58,476 --> 00:35:00,676 Speaker 4: I've approached Alyssa Milano to play the role of you. 700 00:35:00,876 --> 00:35:04,436 Speaker 3: Oh you did really? Ah, thank you, that's pretty funny. 701 00:35:06,076 --> 00:35:06,436 Speaker 3: Thank you. 702 00:35:06,676 --> 00:35:09,196 Speaker 4: Okay, let's talk tomorrow. Okay, thank you. 703 00:35:09,196 --> 00:35:11,276 Speaker 3: You guys. Have a good one, okay, all right, take 704 00:35:11,316 --> 00:35:13,996 Speaker 3: care for okay, thank you to take care. 705 00:35:15,756 --> 00:35:16,636 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 706 00:35:22,036 --> 00:35:27,796 Speaker 4: Wow. Man, she's good. I even feel like I believe her. 707 00:35:28,236 --> 00:35:31,476 Speaker 4: I'm walking. I've been looking at these statements and you know, 708 00:35:31,836 --> 00:35:37,596 Speaker 4: forgeries and everything for like quite literally months, and in 709 00:35:37,636 --> 00:35:44,116 Speaker 4: that conversation, I'm standing here like, Okay, well that seems legit. 710 00:35:45,636 --> 00:35:48,196 Speaker 4: And I really hope that Leslie will meet with me 711 00:35:48,276 --> 00:35:53,516 Speaker 4: tomorrow to talk through some of the stuff. Oh man, 712 00:35:53,556 --> 00:35:57,396 Speaker 4: here's Simon. Do you want to jump out of the 713 00:35:57,436 --> 00:36:04,676 Speaker 4: car in a weird way? I was just saying, she's 714 00:36:04,796 --> 00:36:05,676 Speaker 4: very convincing. 715 00:36:06,436 --> 00:36:07,196 Speaker 2: Are you flipped now? 716 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:12,796 Speaker 4: She's very convincing, cool as ice. She did cry at 717 00:36:12,796 --> 00:36:17,076 Speaker 4: one point, and she said that she really loved Greg 718 00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:20,836 Speaker 4: and she was really disappointed he didn't fight for her. 719 00:36:22,036 --> 00:36:22,436 Speaker 3: Yeah. 720 00:36:22,636 --> 00:36:25,076 Speaker 2: I mean, I can't really comment on that because I 721 00:36:25,116 --> 00:36:26,716 Speaker 2: don't know what to believe for it. We've just spent 722 00:36:26,756 --> 00:36:29,396 Speaker 2: the last four or five days of people just showing 723 00:36:29,476 --> 00:36:31,836 Speaker 2: us fake, fake, fake stuff that she did, so it's 724 00:36:31,916 --> 00:36:33,476 Speaker 2: hard to really believe anything she says. 725 00:36:33,676 --> 00:36:34,596 Speaker 4: But I don't know, Like. 726 00:36:35,356 --> 00:36:37,996 Speaker 2: She was with Greg for a couple of years, you know, 727 00:36:38,436 --> 00:36:41,556 Speaker 2: so I'm sure she has feelings for him. It's probably 728 00:36:41,556 --> 00:36:42,556 Speaker 2: impossible not to, you know. 729 00:36:43,196 --> 00:36:49,316 Speaker 4: I'm just amazed at how friendly. She was, and she 730 00:36:49,356 --> 00:36:51,156 Speaker 4: was giving, and she had a lot of nice things 731 00:36:51,196 --> 00:36:54,756 Speaker 4: to say about me, And she was even at the 732 00:36:54,836 --> 00:36:57,196 Speaker 4: end there saying, ah, I was thinking of you just 733 00:36:57,236 --> 00:37:03,076 Speaker 4: the other day, and you know that. Her big disappointment 734 00:37:03,156 --> 00:37:04,796 Speaker 4: is she can't come back to New Zealand now because 735 00:37:04,836 --> 00:37:06,716 Speaker 4: Dad told her that she would be arrested. 736 00:37:08,076 --> 00:37:10,356 Speaker 2: Because she committed fraud. 737 00:37:11,076 --> 00:37:13,356 Speaker 4: The thing is, when I was showing her stuff and 738 00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:16,156 Speaker 4: she's like, you know, she was doing the shaggy wasn't me? 739 00:37:17,116 --> 00:37:19,276 Speaker 4: You know, I'm like, but I caught you in the 740 00:37:19,476 --> 00:37:23,036 Speaker 4: fake bank statement. Wasn't me? And what do you say 741 00:37:23,036 --> 00:37:28,916 Speaker 4: to that? At this point? Yeah, just one second party. 742 00:37:28,956 --> 00:37:30,036 Speaker 4: I'm gonna be sure no one else is on the 743 00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:34,476 Speaker 4: internet that night, Simon and I call Greg. It could 744 00:37:34,476 --> 00:37:36,396 Speaker 4: be tough for him to hear, but we want to 745 00:37:36,396 --> 00:37:37,836 Speaker 4: play him some of what Leslie said. 746 00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:42,436 Speaker 3: I never got clothes, I never got to say goodbye 747 00:37:42,476 --> 00:37:43,036 Speaker 3: to your brother. 748 00:37:43,476 --> 00:37:44,636 Speaker 4: I truly loved him. 749 00:37:45,716 --> 00:37:49,316 Speaker 3: So anyways, do. 750 00:37:49,276 --> 00:37:54,796 Speaker 4: You think that's real, real feelings? 751 00:37:57,916 --> 00:38:03,716 Speaker 10: I'd like to think so. But in little Yeah Partami says, yeah, 752 00:38:04,076 --> 00:38:08,636 Speaker 10: but I don't know the fact she had formed before 753 00:38:08,676 --> 00:38:16,876 Speaker 10: I was around. Nah, how do you explain so many 754 00:38:16,996 --> 00:38:20,996 Speaker 10: victims like you know what, was it just one mistake 755 00:38:21,156 --> 00:38:25,476 Speaker 10: or is she just like a fucking serial offender? And 756 00:38:26,276 --> 00:38:29,596 Speaker 10: it's hard not to see how she's not. It goes 757 00:38:29,636 --> 00:38:31,756 Speaker 10: back to what she just said in the car. There 758 00:38:32,356 --> 00:38:35,556 Speaker 10: never got closure. I truly loved your brother. I reckon 759 00:38:35,596 --> 00:38:42,396 Speaker 10: that's all bullshit if there's a pattern of her doing 760 00:38:42,396 --> 00:38:46,276 Speaker 10: this to many people, because there's nothing unique about me 761 00:38:46,996 --> 00:38:47,676 Speaker 10: in that respect. 762 00:38:48,756 --> 00:38:52,236 Speaker 4: Greg isn't completely without sympathy for Leslie, but for the 763 00:38:52,276 --> 00:38:56,196 Speaker 4: most part, his sympathies lie elsewhere. We've beaped out Cameron's 764 00:38:56,236 --> 00:38:57,116 Speaker 4: real name here. 765 00:38:57,436 --> 00:39:00,796 Speaker 10: So I'd imagine she's having a pretty shit night. But 766 00:39:00,876 --> 00:39:03,956 Speaker 10: for me, it's just a little bit about other people too. 767 00:39:03,996 --> 00:39:06,716 Speaker 10: You know, it's not just about me. I guess what 768 00:39:06,756 --> 00:39:10,596 Speaker 10: I mean by that is, you know is what what 769 00:39:10,636 --> 00:39:14,436 Speaker 10: would say? What would the Brazilian guy and Brazil say 770 00:39:14,476 --> 00:39:17,116 Speaker 10: and all these other people? You know, I would just 771 00:39:17,116 --> 00:39:19,556 Speaker 10: be like, fuck, she said. 772 00:39:19,356 --> 00:39:24,516 Speaker 4: The same ship to me too, Greg, Like I said 773 00:39:24,556 --> 00:39:28,676 Speaker 4: last night, Bro, you've been super brave just even entertaining 774 00:39:28,756 --> 00:39:32,156 Speaker 4: this thing. You've been honest and put yourself out there, 775 00:39:32,156 --> 00:39:33,756 Speaker 4: wore your heart on your sleeve, bro, And you're the 776 00:39:33,756 --> 00:39:37,636 Speaker 4: one that's actually worn this arguably harder than Mum and 777 00:39:37,716 --> 00:39:40,836 Speaker 4: dad even So mate, good on your brother. 778 00:39:40,996 --> 00:39:46,436 Speaker 10: I love you, yeah, I mean you guys, yeah, just 779 00:39:52,756 --> 00:39:54,356 Speaker 10: I think it's pretty amazing what you guys have done. 780 00:39:54,436 --> 00:39:56,156 Speaker 10: And you guys have done this for us right as well, 781 00:39:56,236 --> 00:40:01,276 Speaker 10: so you know, right back at you to Today was 782 00:40:01,316 --> 00:40:06,996 Speaker 10: a big day, man, that's a big day. 783 00:40:08,556 --> 00:40:13,436 Speaker 4: Yeah, bro, big day. I don't know what to make 784 00:40:13,476 --> 00:40:18,196 Speaker 4: of it all yet. Leslie was as cool as a 785 00:40:18,236 --> 00:40:21,516 Speaker 4: cucumber in a couple of ice cubes. But I know 786 00:40:21,676 --> 00:40:24,436 Speaker 4: lots of what she said melts away when I show 787 00:40:24,476 --> 00:40:28,836 Speaker 4: her evidence. If she shows up tomorrow, maybe she'll admit 788 00:40:28,956 --> 00:40:35,276 Speaker 4: more next episode. So I sent Leslie a text suggesting 789 00:40:35,316 --> 00:40:37,756 Speaker 4: that we meet up at the Starbucks near the supermarket 790 00:40:37,796 --> 00:40:41,036 Speaker 4: she works at, and she's just sent me a text back. 791 00:40:41,236 --> 00:40:47,036 Speaker 4: So here it is, hi, Ollie, and good morning. It 792 00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:49,276 Speaker 4: was really good to see you too. In the meantime, 793 00:40:49,356 --> 00:40:52,676 Speaker 4: you understand Simon, and I start thinking about what Leslie's 794 00:40:52,716 --> 00:40:54,516 Speaker 4: life must be really like. 795 00:40:55,036 --> 00:40:59,836 Speaker 2: This kind of existence must be traumatic and fucking sad 796 00:40:59,916 --> 00:41:01,036 Speaker 2: and just tolerable. 797 00:41:01,836 --> 00:41:05,156 Speaker 11: I'll need some help to understand that they're motivated in 798 00:41:05,916 --> 00:41:09,636 Speaker 11: the sense of power over other people, control over other 799 00:41:09,676 --> 00:41:13,636 Speaker 11: people's lives and over ninety percent of cases, true connartists 800 00:41:13,716 --> 00:41:16,796 Speaker 11: are repeat offenders and give them the opportunity to go straight, 801 00:41:16,876 --> 00:41:17,396 Speaker 11: so to speak. 802 00:41:17,436 --> 00:41:18,116 Speaker 3: They don't take it. 803 00:41:19,396 --> 00:41:57,516 Speaker 4: That's next time for the final chapter of Snowball. Binge 804 00:41:57,556 --> 00:42:02,116 Speaker 4: episodes of deep Cover presents Snowball early and ad free 805 00:42:02,236 --> 00:42:05,996 Speaker 4: with a Pushkin Plus subscription. Fine Pushkin Plus on the 806 00:42:05,996 --> 00:42:10,276 Speaker 4: deep Cover show page in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin 807 00:42:10,556 --> 00:42:15,196 Speaker 4: dot fm slash Plus. Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad 808 00:42:15,236 --> 00:42:19,756 Speaker 4: free episodes, full audio books, and exclusive binges of other 809 00:42:19,876 --> 00:42:22,236 Speaker 4: true crime podcasts throughout the year.