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Speaker 1: This world will not kill my son, like I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do everything in my power to ensure that he

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Speaker 1: is safe, to ensure that I try to shift systems

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Speaker 1: and communities so that he is safe and not just him,

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Speaker 1: everybody like him.

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Speaker 2: What's going on, Emily Abadi?

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Speaker 1: Here?

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Speaker 3: You are listening to episode two hundred and twenty five,

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Speaker 3: A Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I connect with

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Speaker 3: everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts and industry

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Speaker 3: CEOs about their highest ties, toughest moments, and everything in between.

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Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life, and my goal

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Speaker 3: through these discussions is to empower you to better navigate

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Speaker 3: yours and move with intention so that you can stride

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Speaker 3: towards your own big potential and of course, have some

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Speaker 3: fun along the way. For episode two hundred and twenty five,

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Speaker 3: I am chatting with Alison Mariella Desier. She's the new

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Speaker 3: author of Running Wallet Black, as well as a disruptor

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Speaker 3: and a mother. In today's episode, she talks about being

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Speaker 3: in a really dark place before picking up running, using

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Speaker 3: drugs and trying to numb the pain of her depression,

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Speaker 3: and how doing that, how choosing sport reminded her of

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Speaker 3: what it was like to feel again really powerful imagery. There,

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Speaker 3: Alison talks about starting a running movement in Harlem called

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Speaker 3: Harlem Run, with a goal to make running more inclusive

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Speaker 3: and welcoming to people of color. She also chats with

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Speaker 3: me about what it felt like to be at the

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Speaker 3: forefront of media attention for her efforts, despite knowing that

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Speaker 3: so many people that looked like her felt othered in

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Speaker 3: the space. Alison really opens up about so many topics here,

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Speaker 3: from what it feels like to be a black mother

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Speaker 3: raising a black sun in today's world, her feelings about

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Speaker 3: the establishment of the running industry's Diversity Coalition, and ultimately,

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Speaker 3: Alison just really challenges us all to level up, right,

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Speaker 3: to level up, to create the community that we want

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Speaker 3: to see, to be a part of the conversation, to

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Speaker 3: be a part of the change so that ideally we

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Speaker 3: can all run free. Really really happy to have had

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to sit down with Alison. If you're like me,

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Speaker 3: you've probably seen her name a whole bunch over the

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Speaker 3: last few weeks in your podcast feeds. It is important

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Speaker 3: for me that this episode, that this conversation brought things

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Speaker 3: to light that I hadn't heard her talk about just yet,

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Speaker 3: so I hope that it is one that you enjoy again.

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Speaker 3: Her book new book called Running Wall Black. I will

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Speaker 3: link to it in the show notes. Make sure you

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Speaker 3: following along with Hurdle over on social At Hurdle Podcast,

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Speaker 3: I am over at Emily a Body and I have

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Speaker 3: two New York City marathon events to share with you.

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Speaker 3: All the sign ups aren't live just yet, but save

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Speaker 3: the date for both Wednesday, November two and Saturday, November fifth.

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Speaker 3: More information to come soon. But you were asking me

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Speaker 3: if there's going to be a moment an opportunity for

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Speaker 3: us to get together, especially on the home turf, and

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Speaker 3: of course there was never any doubt. So save those

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Speaker 3: dates again. More invotacom soon. I cannot wait to come

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Speaker 3: back together. Last little bit of housekeeping. I'm hunting listener questions,

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Speaker 3: so please send me one. Let me answer your question

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Speaker 3: on an upcoming episode of the show. The link to

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Speaker 3: leave me a voice message and ask one is in

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Speaker 3: the show notes.

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Speaker 2: With that, let's get to hurdling.

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Speaker 1: Today.

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Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Alison Mary Ella Daisier.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing today?

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling so great and happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to have you.

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Speaker 3: You know, I thought a lot about how I want

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Speaker 3: to just start this conversation, and I want to kind

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Speaker 3: of invert it from my normal conversation here on the

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Speaker 3: show by asking you a question I typically reserve for

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Speaker 3: the end. Right now, someone comes to your Instagram page,

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Speaker 3: they see the new author of Running while Black, They

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Speaker 3: see a mother, a disruptor. When you look in the mirror,

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Speaker 3: what is it that you see looking back at you?

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. I still see myself, honestly, as

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Speaker 1: being like in my early twenties, trying to figure things out,

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Speaker 1: and I have to pinch myself and remind myself I've

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Speaker 1: come a long way. I have a voice that not

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Speaker 1: only matters just inherently, but that people are listening to,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not just this person floating around in space

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Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, Like there's still a lot

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Speaker 1: for me to figure out, but I'm making an impact.

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Speaker 1: So I sort of have to be like, you're not

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Speaker 1: a child anymore. Else, you are a grown as woman.

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Speaker 2: A grown ass woman.

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Speaker 3: But isn't that interesting because I can sympathize with that idea,

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Speaker 3: that note that when I look in the mirror, more

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Speaker 3: often than not, I also see a version of my

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Speaker 3: younger self exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't I mean, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that ever changes. I've heard older people say that they

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Speaker 1: feel x age or that they don't. There's sort of

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Speaker 1: always this incongruence between who they are supposed to be

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Speaker 1: or who the world knows them to be, and then

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Speaker 1: who they are on the inside. So maybe that's just

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Speaker 1: a beautiful kind of confusing part of life, A.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful confusing part of life.

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Speaker 3: I mentioned in noting what's going on your Instagram profile?

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Speaker 2: Author?

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Speaker 3: How does it feel? How are you actually feeling in

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Speaker 3: this moment?

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Speaker 1: I would say overwhelmed in a wonderful way. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's been such positive feedback for my book. There has

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Speaker 1: been a little bit of trolling, but nothing that has

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Speaker 1: gotten in the way of just the good vibes. But

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Speaker 1: it's almost like, you know, I'm reading all this positive

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Speaker 1: feedback and I almost have to like put my phone

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Speaker 1: down and just like ground myself because all of that

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Speaker 1: is excellent and that's what you want. But also I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get so caught up in like the

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Speaker 1: hype and the buzz and lose sight of this moment,

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Speaker 1: what it means the story that I'm here to tell, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of Yeah, it's so exciting to get

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Speaker 1: likes and comments and retweets and all of that, but

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Speaker 1: just trying to stay grounded and in that think of

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Speaker 1: each step along the way as one thing. Right Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm having this book tour, which is one thing, but

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Speaker 1: within that book tour, there are like fifteen dates, and

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Speaker 1: I want each of those events to be one that

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Speaker 1: I'm fully present for. I want each conversation that I

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Speaker 1: have to be one where I'm showing up for myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm not just like saying the same thing that I've

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Speaker 1: said on another podcast. I'm trying to be as intentional

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Speaker 1: as possible because things like this it may never happen again,

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Speaker 1: and I want to fully enjoy this time that it's happening.

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Speaker 2: It's a really good perspective.

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Speaker 3: I have to double click on what you said about

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Speaker 3: the trolls. How do you not linger in that negativity

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Speaker 3: and focus on the positive?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I saw just one in response to

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Speaker 1: Runners World. Runners World had tweeted a video that just

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Speaker 1: came out and the person said, stop making everything about race,

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Speaker 1: And of course I was like, first, I was triggering,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I could go in, and then

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Speaker 1: I was like, but I don't even know who this

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Speaker 1: person is. This comment was clearly meant to be provocative

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Speaker 1: and to incite that kind of response, and I'm here

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Speaker 1: for meaningful conversation, so I just have to like redirect

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Speaker 1: myself as quickly as possible not get sucked in. Like

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Speaker 1: what does a troll want? They want you to give

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Speaker 1: all your energy to this conversation that really is not

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Speaker 1: changing or transforming anything, right, So just don't get sucked in,

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Speaker 1: is what I tell myself.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I feel as though that idea of what was

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Speaker 3: their goal to incite x y Z, I almost feel

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Speaker 3: as though that may be giving them more credit than

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Speaker 3: they even deserve, right, Like, in the effort or you know,

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Speaker 3: whatever it is that they put out into the world,

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Speaker 3: I don't often think that they realize that there's a

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Speaker 3: person on the other side of whatever screen that they're

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Speaker 3: looking at that's a real human being.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely true, And in moments where I've been the worst

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Speaker 1: version of myself, I have also done that, Right. I

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Speaker 1: have said something to a person or about a person

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Speaker 1: not realizing like, this is a real human and that's

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Speaker 1: not an effective form of communication. I wouldn't say that

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Speaker 1: I've trolled people, but I've certainly had I've certainly said

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Speaker 1: things and then and even I've said things where I

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Speaker 1: know the person, then I've texted or called the person

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Speaker 1: and been like whoa Like that was not what I wanted.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to contribute to a hate campaign against

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Speaker 1: you because I know you as a human. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I try not to be that worst version of myself,

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Speaker 1: but those vibes out there are just not ones I

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Speaker 1: want to get into.

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Speaker 3: You answered what my follow up question to that note

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Speaker 3: was going to be, which is have you ever gone

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Speaker 3: back and said I was wrong? Which takes a really well,

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Speaker 3: it takes courage, I would say, sometimes it takes being

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Speaker 3: brave to admit your biggest mistakes.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I have, and there are probably times when

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Speaker 1: I haven't. There might be somebody listening who's like, but

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Speaker 1: you didn't apologize to me, so you know, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not perfect. And honestly, the way that

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Speaker 1: social media is set up really is sometimes to incite

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Speaker 1: bad feelings and things that things that go viral or

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Speaker 1: think often things that are like highly sexual, highly controversial,

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Speaker 1: very hateful right, And so I also have to remember

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Speaker 1: like not to feed into the machine, and as best

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Speaker 1: as possible, shaming people is really not an effective means

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Speaker 1: of creating change. I have been in the conversations where

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Speaker 1: I've shamed people, and what I realize is that just

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Speaker 1: causes somebody to go more underground and feel like I

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Speaker 1: am a bad person. Therefore I will never try again.

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Speaker 1: I think it's different when you're talking about corporations and

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Speaker 1: you know, very powerful then or institutions where you must

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Speaker 1: you must use all means necessary to get the message out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you know it's it's meaningful. Conversation is always

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Speaker 1: important when it can be had. If I find myself

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Speaker 1: in a place where I'm unsafe physically or psychologically, then

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Speaker 1: that's a whole different story, and it's like get out

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Speaker 1: of here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And if you had an opportunity now to

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Speaker 3: kind of speak to that version of yourself, would you

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Speaker 3: have a piece of advice perhaps to offer them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say have more empathy in that moment,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, like empathy is hard, but have more empathy

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Speaker 1: and think long term, think about you know the reason

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Speaker 1: why often I've made comments or I've done things or

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Speaker 1: in the future. I'm sure I will operate in a

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Speaker 1: way I don't love, but it's because I'm feeling pain

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Speaker 1: and I want something to change. So in that moment, honestly,

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Speaker 1: you have to step back and say, well, as bringing

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Speaker 1: this other person pain going to lead to change, is

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Speaker 1: there another approach that I can take right? Right?

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Speaker 3: And it's no wonder you're dealing with trolls. You're having

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Speaker 3: to think about things from different perspectives because the topics

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Speaker 3: that you are speaking out on. It's not just cool

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Speaker 3: and calm conversation all the time. So talk to the

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Speaker 3: hurdlers a little bit about this work that you're doing

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Speaker 3: as a disruptor. Talk to us a little bit about

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Speaker 3: how you have been come the author of Running Well Black.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a very good question, and that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that is absolutely the story that I'm telling in this book,

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Speaker 1: which is why I start with my youth and I

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Speaker 1: start with sharing these little moments that ultimately add up

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Speaker 1: and make me into the person who I am today.

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Speaker 1: Moments where I found that I was the other or

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Speaker 1: the only the only black person, the only black woman

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Speaker 1: in a room, where people underestimated me, where people confuse

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Speaker 1: me with other people, where people made assumptions about what

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Speaker 1: I was capable of. And what I found was that

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Speaker 1: my reaction to that was always wanting to say the

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Speaker 1: thing that needs to be said, always, you know, standing

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Speaker 1: in my truth, knowing my history and what my people

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Speaker 1: have done, and seeking to create space for that. I

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Speaker 1: credit a lot of that to my parents, particularly my father,

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Speaker 1: who if you ask them a single question, like you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd ask him for help as I'm setting for a test,

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Speaker 1: and he would just give me like the history of

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Speaker 1: the world world. No. I always had to be careful

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Speaker 1: asking questions because you wouldn't get a two response, you

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Speaker 1: would get you know, ours response. But so I was

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Speaker 1: always very deeply rooted in history. But the real history,

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Speaker 1: not the history that they tell you in school, right,

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Speaker 1: because oftentimes what you learn in school is determined by

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Speaker 1: those who are in power. So I always grew up

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Speaker 1: like with this little disruptor sense of self. And when

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Speaker 1: I found running, I was going through a period of depression.

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Speaker 1: I found I saw a friend of mine who was

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Speaker 1: training for a marathon, a black guy who is not

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Speaker 1: what you see in magazines. And I know hurdlers. I

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Speaker 1: know you know about this because part of what you

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Speaker 1: speak about, Emily is body image and size and how

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Speaker 1: even how you look is not what is presented in media.

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Speaker 1: So I saw this person became attracted to history, and

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Speaker 1: then I fell in love with running myself. But the

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Speaker 1: industry and the community did not look like me and

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Speaker 1: did not tell me as what a runner looked like.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, I love this thing, I

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Speaker 1: love this place, but I need to shift it so

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Speaker 1: that more people like me can see themselves.

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Speaker 3: I know you grew up in a in a New

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Speaker 3: Jersey suburb, right, Yes, it's interesting to me. I went

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Speaker 3: to a book talk last night for a woman that

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Speaker 3: I met in the journalism space. Her name is daniel Prescott.

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Speaker 3: She has a book that just came out called Token

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Speaker 3: Black Girl. And at the talk, she was talking with

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Speaker 3: a moderator who was also black, and they were talking

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Speaker 3: about how, despite of course them both being black skinned,

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Speaker 3: that they had a very different black experience, her growing

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Speaker 3: up in Greenwich, Connecticut and him growing up like in Bedsty,

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Speaker 3: where like it was always a competition to be like,

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Speaker 3: am I blacker than you?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Versus Danielle being the.

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Speaker 3: Quote unquote token black girl in so many of her

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Speaker 3: spaces so to hear about you entering into the running

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Speaker 3: communit and feeling so othered, it's not surprising, but it

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Speaker 3: is unfortunate.

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Speaker 1: I love that, and now I need to buy this book. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What's also was important about my story is that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is no single way of being black, right, And

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Speaker 1: when I was crafting my story, I wanted to make

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Speaker 1: it clear that just because I didn't grow up in

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Speaker 1: bedstie or in an inner city didn't necessarily have violence

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Speaker 1: or some of the kind of tropes that people associate

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Speaker 1: with blackness. I still was harmed by white supremacy. I

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Speaker 1: still was harmed by racism, right. It shows up in

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Speaker 1: all different ways, and all of our stories are valid

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Speaker 1: and important. So, yeah, whether you're being whether you're the token,

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Speaker 1: or whether your story is about who's the most, who's

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Speaker 1: the blackest, so the most, whatever, they all are stories

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Speaker 1: of people who have been harmed by racism.

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Speaker 3: And before we touch on you really feeling like the

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Speaker 3: other when you still just show up to various groups

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Speaker 3: in the New York area, I do want to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we give some breath to your journey with

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Speaker 3: depression and how that was something that drove you to

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Speaker 3: running back in twenty twelve. Can you talk this through

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Speaker 3: a little bit about how running aided those feelings for you?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? Running. So, like I said, I saw this person

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Speaker 1: who was training for a marathon, and I was really

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Speaker 1: just in such a dark place and felt like I

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Speaker 1: felt so helpless that seeing him talk about the transformational experience,

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Speaker 1: I was like willing to try anything. And a marathon

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Speaker 1: certainly was never something that I thought I would do.

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Speaker 1: But I again connected with his message, and for me,

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Speaker 1: just the act of signing up for that marathon meant

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Speaker 1: getting out of my house meant you know, not I

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Speaker 1: was regularly overdosing on xen X and drinking a lot

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Speaker 1: other things just to sort of feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: to not exists. So just getting out of my house,

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Speaker 1: going to the team and training office, signing up for

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Speaker 1: this thing, and leaving my credit card information because it

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Speaker 1: was fundraising, right, So leaving my credit card information that

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Speaker 1: I knew good and will I could not pay for

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Speaker 1: was a big deal for me. But what I think

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Speaker 1: as I reflect on it, what gave me the most

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Speaker 1: hope was this idea that you have the sixteen week

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Speaker 1: training plan that guarantees you will run a marathon at

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Speaker 1: the end and on the one hand, I was like,

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Speaker 1: how could anybody guarantee that outcome? But on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm going to put

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Speaker 1: all of my faith into this that if I follow

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Speaker 1: all of the steps, I too will be able to

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Speaker 1: accomplish it. And that is what completely transformed my world.

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Speaker 1: Week by week, I was doing like a little bit

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Speaker 1: more or a little bit different than I had done,

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Speaker 1: and I was accomplishing these small goals that would lead

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Speaker 1: to this bigger goal. And after completing my marathon, I

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Speaker 1: took on that sort of that kind of practice. I decided, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna apply this to apply this method to finding

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Speaker 1: a job. Right So I created an Excel document, and

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Speaker 1: week by week I was applying to jobs. I did

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Speaker 1: that with everything in my life. And I also realized

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Speaker 1: that while running was therapeutic for me, I needed to

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Speaker 1: go to therapy and I needed to get on medication.

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Speaker 1: So I credit all of that shift in my mental

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Speaker 1: health to taking a chance on myself, taking a chance

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Speaker 1: on this marathon. And I want to be clear that

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Speaker 1: for me, it was all of these things working together,

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Speaker 1: mental like seeing a therapist, running, building community, medication, all

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Speaker 1: of those things together are what allowed me to maintain

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Speaker 1: my mental health. And you know, life continues to sometimes

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Speaker 1: be difficult. When I after giving birth to my son,

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Speaker 1: I was very, very depressed to postpartum depression and anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and I again turned to each of these tools to

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Speaker 1: help me through those moments. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't accountability in the form of putting your money

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Speaker 3: where your mouth is like one of the best things ever?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? Absolutely? Yeah. I mean I think it's what It's

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Speaker 1: so hard, It's so hard to get started, but there

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Speaker 1: is this momentum that builds, and it is the accumulation

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Speaker 1: of all of these seemingly small choices that add up

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Speaker 1: to change.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you for sharing about your journey.

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Speaker 3: I think what's really important in what I try to

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Speaker 3: highlight here on the show is that depression can look.

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Speaker 2: So different for so many different people.

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Speaker 3: I remember once someone using the word I just felt stuck,

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Speaker 3: and for some reason, that word stuck really resonated with me. So,

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Speaker 3: before we move on, are there any buzzwords? Are there

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Speaker 3: any descriptors that you can use to really talk us

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Speaker 3: through what it felt like for you before you found running.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt like I was a shell of myself.

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was just existing, like not living.

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Speaker 1: And part of why I was using substances, whether alcohol

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Speaker 1: or you know, prescription medication, is because I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to get to the next part of my life, whatever

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Speaker 1: that meant. Right. I just felt like, Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: this rough patch and I just want to I would

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Speaker 1: say to close friends and family who didn't know how

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Speaker 1: to respond, I would say, I just want to wake

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Speaker 1: up in ten years. Right. So I felt like I

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Speaker 1: was just this lifeless shell and running created as spark, right, Like.

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Speaker 1: That's also this what I Running was so powerful to

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Speaker 1: me because it gave me an experience of being embodied again.

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Speaker 1: I had been so numb and separate of myself that

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Speaker 1: through running, I started to feel sore, and I started

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Speaker 1: to feel my chest and my breath and it was

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Speaker 1: this connection like, oh, I am like my body is

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Speaker 1: working with me. I can tell my body to do

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Speaker 1: things and I'll get this result. So running was just

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Speaker 1: this beautiful sense of revisiting and reuniting with my body.

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Speaker 3: Right, feeling capable, feeling at all again when you didn't

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Speaker 3: want to feel in the slightest before that that's really special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that's you know, I encourage everybody, Like,

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Speaker 1: not everybody wants to be a runner, not everybody will

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Speaker 1: love the sport, but just the act of movement is

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Speaker 1: incredibly powerful, no matter what you're going through and no

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Speaker 1: matter what that movement looks like to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you mentioned the Excel spreadsheet applying some of

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Speaker 3: the lessons that you learned on the run toward finding

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Speaker 3: your next job, and you're remissive. I didn't mention that

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Speaker 3: you also got a master's degree in counseling psychology in

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, followed by another master's in twenty eighteen. Education

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Speaker 3: that was your third So you've had a fair amount

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Speaker 3: of education.

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Speaker 2: What happens for you on the job front?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I listen, I could be a student for

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Speaker 1: I also credit that to my parents, who are always,

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Speaker 1: you know, on Sunday's. They were like reading and reading

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Speaker 1: high level books and having conversation and I just am.

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Speaker 1: I'm a really curious person and I love to learn.

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Speaker 1: So but despite all this education, I still couldn't find

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Speaker 1: a job that I wanted to do. I knew I

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Speaker 1: started to as I went through these master's programs. I

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Speaker 1: started to realize that I did not want to be

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Speaker 1: have a nine to five job. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: feel sort of isolated, or I didn't want to feel

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Speaker 1: like I had to narrow all of my interests into

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Speaker 1: one industry, right Like I didn't want to be a doctor,

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, an engineer, scientist, sort of things that I

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Speaker 1: had heard growing up. I wanted to have a space

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Speaker 1: where I could use my love of people and community,

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Speaker 1: my curiosity, my skills from my masters and counseling right

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Speaker 1: in listening to people and understanding and and help guiding

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Speaker 1: them on a path. But I didn't know what that was.

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Speaker 1: And in my book I tell that story of like

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Speaker 1: discovering how I could piece together something that would earn

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Speaker 1: me money, but that also brought me a lot of joy.

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Speaker 1: And part of my master's program, one of the classes

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Speaker 1: we took was career counseling, where I finally realized that

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Speaker 1: a career is not just you know, you don't have

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Speaker 1: to it's a privilege, but you don't have to be

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Speaker 1: limited by what you hear, right like what's doctor, lawyer,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. Right like that, you also

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Speaker 1: have the capacity to craft a life based around what

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Speaker 1: lights you up inside. And I feel very fortunate for

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Speaker 1: my education and for this particular class and space to

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Speaker 1: learn that.

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Speaker 3: And as you are weaving your way down this path

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Speaker 3: of trying to figure out what lights you up, you

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Speaker 3: also during this time in I believe twenty thirteen found

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Speaker 3: Harlem Run.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's right now. It all seems to be like

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Speaker 1: pieces of a puzzle that I was putting together. But

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Speaker 1: I had no idea there was a puzzle that was

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Speaker 1: working on right. I was just I had gone through

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Speaker 1: this incredible experience of that first marathon and it changing

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Speaker 1: my life. But also recognizing that there weren't many black

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Speaker 1: people who I was running with or who were part

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Speaker 1: of the team and training experience. So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: create a space for us in Harlem. And I had

438
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: no idea. I mean, I was hopeful that it would

439
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: grow because I was showing up every Monday for six months.

440
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: But when it grew to be ten people, I was like, Oh,

441
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: this is it. And then it was twenty five people

442
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, we've made it.

443
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Then we bought like hoodies and I was like, oh,

444
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: like we're super legit. It's like as like I just

445
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: kept thinking like this is the best or the most

446
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: impactful and I've been surprised and delighted in so many

447
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: ways by what has come out of that. Just wanting

448
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: to start something for my community.

449
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: A hoodie really just makes everything so much more of that.

450
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I was like, yo, people will see our

451
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 4: name on something. People also just like you know, Now,

452
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 4: maybe we take it for granted because there are so

453
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 4: many clubs and crews and there are so many places

454
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 4: where people feel seen. But this idea of like, I mean,

455
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 4: that's why we wear any kind of brand, right, because

456
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 4: this means something.

457
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: So I just felt so just it felt so special

458
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: that people saw that their values and sense of self

459
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: was so deeply connected to this thing I started called

460
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Harlem Run, that they wanted to wear it on the chest.

461
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

462
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: So, as Harlem Run begins to gain traction, obviously you

463
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 3: are at the forefront of that, knowing that there is

464
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: an issue within the running community with its lack of blackness,

465
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: let's call it what it is, and also being identified

466
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: more and more by conventional media as this superstar who

467
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: is creating this movement in Harlem. How did that feel

468
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 3: for you to kind of be singled out and be

469
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 3: at the forefront while also knowing that there was so

470
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: much work to be done.

471
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: That's a really good question.

472
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: Right.

473
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: I started to think about, I mean, this idea of

474
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: a token black girl. Right, I started to piece together, like,

475
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: certainly what I was doing was important for my community.

476
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: But I started to recognize through the immedia attention that oh,

477
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: I'm being recognized because of the novelty around it. Which, okay,

478
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: I was happy to be sharing my story and changing

479
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: the narrative and inspiring other people, but also I wanted

480
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: to be part of making sure that there were more

481
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: people like me. Right, it wasn't good enough that I

482
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: was getting or wasn't that didn't really give me the

483
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: deep sense of joy that I was getting. I was

484
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: seeing regularly getting this attention, It's like, okay, but starting

485
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: to think about, well, why is it that I am

486
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: the only one in this space, and what are the

487
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: barriers and what is this recognizing that there is an

488
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: industry here, right, that there are people who are making

489
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: money off of running the business of running, and they

490
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: are the ones who are dictating what are runner looks like.

491
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: They're the ones that are dictating what stories are seen

492
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: as important, who's seen as valuable. And so I started

493
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: to That's when I really started to question and think

494
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: about how could I make and a difference in shifting

495
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: all of this right, Like, I'm not just I don't

496
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: just want to be the face of something. I want

497
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: to be behind the scenes, shifting the conversation and the narrative.

498
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: Was there any one conversation that you think back to

499
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: toward the beginning of your work, which we'll get into,

500
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 3: that made you realize the opportunity you had.

501
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: And perhaps at that moment your importance.

502
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are many, but one that just immediately came

503
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: to mind that I don't actually address in the book.

504
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: But I had just completed Run for All Women, which

505
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: was a run from Washington Harlem to Washington, d C.

506
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: We raised over one hundred thousand dollars, and at the time,

507
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: I was sponsored by under Armour and Kevin Plank issued

508
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: this statement around about Trump. I don't even remember the

509
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: exact statement, but I immediately felt this sense of just

510
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: like that was it law in my body? Right? I

511
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: am sponsored by this brand. I of course cannot represent

512
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: or speak to all things that the brand does, but

513
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: this is so misaligned with my values. And I posted

514
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: something on Instagram and I later found out that I

515
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: was the first under Armor sponsored athlete to post like

516
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: later Missy Copeland would post and Steph Curry would post.

517
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: But that felt really dangerous for me to say this

518
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: because I also I am not Missy Copeland or step Curries,

519
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: so I could easily be like, all right, your contract's over.

520
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: So it felt really dangerous. But it also felt really

521
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: significant and important to let my community know and stand

522
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: up for what I believed in. And that actually led

523
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: to me having a meeting with Kevin Plank and an

524
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: opportunity to have conversation with him, and that was really

525
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: powerful to me because I was like, Oh, the industry

526
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: is listening, These CEOs are listening, and that means that

527
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: I can and will be continue to be intentional with

528
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, right, and that integrity is so important.

529
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: So I think that was Again, there are many moments,

530
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: but that was really significant for me and recognizing, oh,

531
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: my audience is not just like this community or that community,

532
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: It is the builders and owners of the industry.

533
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

534
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as you mentioned, you were an under Armour

535
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: athlete at the time, but this also helps you to

536
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 3: realize that you have an opportunity to create this kind

537
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: of change and prompt these dialogues everywhere else across the industry.

538
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 3: After this moment with the under armour CEO, where do

539
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: you go from there? Where else do the important conversations

540
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: start happening?

541
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I started to So you know, I had

542
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: just then run for a woman, and I started to

543
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 1: think I was developing more of a language of what

544
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to say. Right, That's also what this book is.

545
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: It's a journey of me discovering the language and then

546
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: having the confidence to be a disruptor. But you know,

547
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: if we fast forward to the pandemic and twenty twenty,

548
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: what I had of my son in July of twenty nineteen,

549
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: and that whole experience of pregnancy and giving birth as

550
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: a black woman, I mean, it was incredible. I'm obsessed

551
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: with my son, but it also made clear all of

552
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: these disparities that are beyond my control. Right when having

553
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: my son, I was deathly afraid that I was going

554
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: to die, that I wasn't going to make it through childbirth,

555
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: because the statistics on black maternal health are so poor

556
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: in this country, right in this country, and it's across

557
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: socioeconomic lines. So you're talking about people like Serena Williams

558
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: almost dying during childbirth. So it was like a whole

559
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: new set of concerns. And on top of that, I

560
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: had always, of course known my mortality as a black woman,

561
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: my husband is a black man, of moving through space

562
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: as in a white supremacist country, but then having a

563
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: son who I might one day have to grieve for,

564
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: like Tamir Rice or a mott Arbery. So when the

565
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: pandemic hit in a mod Arbery was murdered, I just

566
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: felt this new sense of In my book, I think

567
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: I say I suddenly had less fucks to give in

568
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: the most colloquial sense, but I have this new energy

569
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: of like this world will not kill my son, Like

570
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure

571
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: that he is safe, to ensure that I try to

572
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: shift systems and communities so that he is safe and

573
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: not just him, everybody like him. So it was just this, Yeah,

574
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: I can't even describe it. If people thought that I

575
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: was bold before having a person who I'm completely responsible

576
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: for meant that I was going to do everything in

577
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: my power to ensure he was protected.

578
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 3: Taking a break from today's episode to talk to you

579
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: about one of the new sponsors on hurdle, and that

580
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,360
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581
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,720
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582
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583
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584
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,480
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585
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586
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587
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588
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589
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590
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591
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: I'm starting back up.

592
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
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593
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594
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595
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596
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597
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598
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599
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600
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601
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602
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606
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620
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621
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622
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623
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624
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625
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626
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,399
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627
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628
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629
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630
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631
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,360
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632
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633
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635
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639
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640
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641
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642
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643
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644
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: sentiments might think but would be scared to act on.

645
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 3: Do you feel as though you've always had this boldness

646
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: within you. Was this learned behavior or was this something

647
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 3: that was instilled in you from a young age.

648
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think this has always been in me.

649
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,280
Speaker 1: I think what has changed is the platform has gotten

650
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: bigger and the stakes have gotten higher. Right, But I

651
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: think this was always just who I was. It's something

652
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: that my parents noticed from a very very early age.

653
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: And as I've moved in my career, and as I've moved,

654
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, gotten more attention and notoriety. Like I said,

655
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: the stakes have become higher, and the things that I've

656
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: said come with consequences, and so there is there's a

657
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: bunch of privilege with being able to say something and

658
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: have the feel enough psychological safety or physical safety to

659
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: say it. And I'm not saying that I always feel

660
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: those things, but I have grown accustomed to being disruptive

661
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: and taking that chance. Right. So, Yeah, when the stakes

662
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: are your son's life and your own comfort and ability

663
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: to live in this world, like I just was willing

664
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: to do whatever it took.

665
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 3: I appreciate in the opening of the book, you have

666
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: this art which displays both us running history and black

667
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: people's reality, and you're talking about a mod Arbery's murder

668
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. Here it says a mod arbery is

669
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: shot by a vigilante. Breonna Taylor, Tony McDade, and George

670
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 3: Floyd are killed by police, and then shortly after that

671
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: October twenty twenty, the Running Industry Diversity Coalition is founded.

672
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: When that diversity coalition was founded, how did it make

673
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 3: you feel?

674
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: Initially, I was fed up. Did not want anything to

675
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: do with this coalition because it seemed to me that

676
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: it was started by white people who wanted to do

677
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: something but had absolutely no knowledge of the issues, right,

678
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: And so it just felt it felt really disingenuous to

679
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: me that this group would come together to try to

680
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: do something without the proper knowledge or skills, and it

681
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: felt like it would be a burden for me to

682
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: get involved and have to bring people along, right, particularly

683
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: during this time when because of lockdown, it's not that

684
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 1: there were more murders or injustices happening, they just hit

685
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: different right, So initially I was I was really frustrated,

686
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: and I shared a lot of resentment with this group,

687
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: which you can read through that. You know, we work

688
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: through all these issues and we continue to work through

689
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: these issues, but this is also it is rare that black, white, Asian,

690
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, any that any group of that people of

691
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: color are having conversations about race with white people. Right,

692
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: We often hear you don't talk about race, you don't

693
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: talk about politics, you don't talk about religion. And so

694
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: what that means is that a lot of people do

695
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: not have the practice or the endurance for it. A

696
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: lot of white people don't have the practice or endurance

697
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 1: for it. So having these conversations seemed like they were

698
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,959
Speaker 1: not going to go anywhere and seemed like they would

699
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: be more of a burden for me than anything. But

700
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: int sticking with it, I found that, you know that

701
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: these are the white people in the r d C.

702
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: As they begun to do their own education and to

703
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: grapple with racism and white supremacy, understand the language, understand

704
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: the concepts, they could show up for this coalition in

705
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: a way that truly could lead to meaningful change. So

706
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: it was one of the most difficult things that I've

707
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: that I've ever done, honestly, and the fact that we've

708
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: gotten brands, retailers, events, entrepreneurs on board and understanding how

709
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: valuable the work of racial equity is and presenting a

710
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: path and how to do that is really just unprecedented

711
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: and incredible.

712
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 3: Right, And that's only kind of the tipping point or

713
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 3: a nod to a lot of the other work that

714
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: you have done within the running industry. You you talked

715
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 3: about the media attention and the conversations that you had

716
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 3: at under Armour, but shed some light on the other

717
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: roles that you've taken on in promoting more diversity and

718
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: inclusion within that space.

719
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's like, that's that's all of my

720
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: life's work. You know. I'm I'm a kind of person

721
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: whom I'm a community builder, and I'm also like I'm

722
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: always I'm always creating something. So another recent part of

723
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: this was a good friend of mine, Martha Garcia, and

724
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: I we had attended Empower Run Retreat, which is a

725
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: wonderful retreat that takes place in March every year, hosted

726
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: by two women who are retailers, who recognize that women

727
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: in that space were not given leadership opportunities, were not

728
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: centered and celebrated, so they created this retreat. There were

729
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: about fifteen women of color who attended that, and I

730
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: immediately started thinking about there are more than fifteen women

731
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: of color who work in the running industry. And while

732
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: this was retail focused, there were also people from brands, entrepreneurs,

733
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. And I was like, where are they right?

734
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: And by the end of that two and a half

735
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: day retreat, Martha and I were like, well, we will

736
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: create a space that centers women, femin non binary folks

737
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: that addresses this so called like talent pipeline problem. What

738
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: you often hear is oh, black people don't apply, or

739
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: oh there's not enough talented women of color, and it's like, actually,

740
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: that's untrue. There are plenty of us. Maybe you don't

741
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: know where to look. Maybe you're not using language that

742
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: attracts us. Maybe your jobs are in places that are

743
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: so racially intolerant and uncomfortable that we don't want to

744
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: apply for that job. Let me just put a plug

745
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: for remote work there.

746
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: Right.

747
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to go work in the middle of nowhere

748
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: and be the only and face all of the racial

749
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: hatred that comes with that. So we decided, let's create

750
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: this space, and within six months we put together this retreat.

751
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: In September of this year, over sixty five people attended.

752
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 1: We had the support of sponsors like Brooks, Strava, Solomon,

753
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: Title nine, article one Eyewear. I think that's everyone who

754
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: really believed in our vision and the women, feminin binary

755
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: folk who attended. One of my favorite comments is, wow,

756
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy, And I use crazy recognizing that there

757
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: is ableism embedded to that phrase. I use it in

758
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: the colloquial sense, but meaning, wow, all these feelings that

759
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: I've had, all of these situations I've been in where

760
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: I have not received mentorship or people have misunderstood me

761
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: or sort of not given me the chance, Like I'm

762
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: not the only one who's feeling that, Like, it's not me,

763
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: it's the system, and that is super powerful that we

764
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: could provide that space, and I just look to continue

765
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: to build on that. I look for this woman of

766
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: color take the lead, retreat to be a space where

767
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: you can find talent, where we can nurture talent, and

768
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: where we can create space for hundreds thousands of more women, feminine,

769
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: binary folk of color.

770
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of my questions are genuine, but this is

771
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 3: also a genuine question. Can you speak a little bit

772
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 3: to perhaps how language should be shifted or could be

773
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 3: shifted to better attract candidates of color.

774
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely. One thing that always triggers me is when I

775
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: see in job description must be professional, or must dress professionally,

776
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: or must whatever the language is right, But so for

777
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: so long, including present day, the way that black women

778
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: in particular show up with our hair has been called unprofessional.

779
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: And it's not just black women. I mean, you could

780
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: just google it. There are stories of one that comes

781
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: to mind of this young black boy who is in

782
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: a wrestling competition head locks. They literally made him cut

783
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: off his locks in order to participate. Right. The Crown

784
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: Act recently passed saying that you could not you may

785
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: not face work discrimination based on your hair. Right, So

786
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: this idea of professional is really rooted. What comes up

787
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: for me is this white supremacist idea of what a

788
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 1: professional looks like. I think I already mentioned this idea

789
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: of remote work right, thinking critically about where are you

790
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: inviting people to come to, right and not just like

791
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: your The physical location might be wonderful, and you might

792
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: treat people with respect within that office, but if somebody

793
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: is and I'm not going to say any state because

794
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to incriminate anybody, but if you are

795
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: asking black and brown people to move to places that

796
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: have a very small non white population and have a

797
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: history of police violence. Think about the hostility that you're

798
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: bringing people into. Right. And one last example that I

799
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: would give is not including salary.

800
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 4: Right.

801
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: There's now a push in some states. I think in

802
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: New York it's like you must have salary in it.

803
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: And what happens when you don't have salary requirements or

804
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: salary baselines is that people from historically excluded, historically marginalized

805
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: communities then have to advocate for themselves based on a

806
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: history of being underpaid. Right.

807
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, to bring from your book, black women in the

808
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 3: US paid thirty six percent less than white men and

809
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 3: twenty percent less than white women. That amounts to one

810
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 3: dollar for white men, seventy three cents for white women,

811
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 3: and fifty eight cents for black women.

812
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: There, you have it, right. So your refusal to share

813
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: what the salary means then puts it on me to

814
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: request my salary, and you might ask for my salary history.

815
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: So if I suddenly am asking for what I'm actually doing,

816
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: which let's say I'm making one hundred and fifty thousand

817
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: dollars a year and I say three hundred thousand dollars

818
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: a year, because that would put me at the equivalent

819
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: of a white man. It doesn't seem reasonable, right, So

820
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: these are the ways that if you are truly invested

821
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: in diverse talent, in women and women of color, if

822
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: non binary folks, then do us the effort, like, give

823
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: us the gift of not having to fight for every

824
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: single moment, not having to advocate so hard for ourselves,

825
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: so that we can just show up.

826
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, just show up.

827
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 3: You know, this conversation the idea of meeting candidates with

828
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: where they're at. For some reason, it's triggering me to

829
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 3: remember a conversation I have with Minaj Diaz. He's the

830
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 3: co founder of a meditation and movement platform called Open

831
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 3: and he was one of the first people that ever

832
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 3: said to me that when he teaches, he always adds

833
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 3: the line, if you are comfortable, close your eyes. And

834
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,479
Speaker 3: that brings me about such an important sentiment that people

835
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 3: are coming to different experiences with their own series of experiences,

836
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: with their own history. So to understand that and not

837
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: expect people to feel a level of comfort because you

838
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 3: feel a level of comfort is so so integral in

839
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 3: being able to move forward and being able to treat

840
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: peace equally.

841
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: Exactly that is, I mean, that's exactly it. Right in

842
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: order for people to actually be treated equally, they need

843
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: to be treated differently, right, because people don't come to

844
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: this space with the same arsenal. Right. So for example,

845
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: and there's so many different images that they're trying to

846
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: convey this message, the difference between equity and equality. Equalities

847
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: you give everybody to the same thing. So you might

848
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: recall this image just cartoon where there are these three

849
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: people at a baseball game and they're all standing on

850
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: the ground. One is really really short, so he's looking

851
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: at this fence. One is really tall, so he's looking

852
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: over the fence, and one is in the middle and

853
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: he can barely see over the face. Defense's that's equality,

854
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: they're all there. Equity is completely removing the fence, right,

855
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: getting rid of the obstacles, so that everybody has an

856
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: equal view of this fence uninterrupted. Right. And so that's

857
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: the idea. And for people who have privilege, the idea

858
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: of equity feels like something is being taken away, something

859
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: that was once just for you. Now all these other

860
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: people have it. It feels like you have less. No,

861
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: in fact, now we all just have access the way

862
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: that you once had. But yeah, I mean that's why

863
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: you often face friction in these conversations. While you hear

864
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: white nationalists chanting things like X group will not replace me.

865
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: This feeling of being replaced is really a feeling of

866
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: equity happening. And when I'm in a place where I

867
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: can have empathy empathy for folks like that, it's like

868
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: you still matter. But guess what we matter too. We're

869
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: not saying that you don't matter. We're just putting this

870
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: particular emphasis on us mattering because we have historically not mattered.

871
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 3: Right, So let's bring this conversation back to the running

872
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 3: community and your experience within the running community, because I

873
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 3: would then dare to say that there was, per your

874
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 3: account at the time, a massive lack of equity within

875
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 3: the running space, and especially here in New York City, where.

876
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: You were absolutely I mean, I share some examples of

877
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: when I was starting Harlem Run, of visiting different groups

878
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: to get a sense of what they felt like, to

879
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: see if there were opportunities collaborate, to collaborate, and just

880
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: feeling seeing that these spaces were not spaces for me. Right,

881
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: there's there's a group where you know, I showed up

882
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: and there were hundreds of white bodies at six point

883
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, screaming and cursing and carrying on,

884
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: and thinking about what would that look like if it

885
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: was black people doing the same thing in front of

886
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 1: the mayor's house no less, Right, I was looking I

887
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: experienced going to groups that were led by black and

888
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: brown men, but that you know, patriarchy and this idea

889
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: of what how black women should show up meant that

890
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't thought of as a as a partner. I

891
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: was thought of as secondary or unimportant. Right. I looked

892
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: at the ways that certain groups were receiving sponsorship and

893
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: attention because they fit a certain idea of runner looks like,

894
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: of what how fast a runner is, or you know,

895
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: whatever that narrative was, And I would say that, you know,

896
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of problematic pieces within the New

897
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: York City running community, but things have and are changing.

898
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: But that change only comes when, again, people with privilege

899
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: recognize that other people are not being served and that

900
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: it's your role, is somebody with privilege, to try to

901
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 1: dismantle those systems. Right, we folks who don't have folks

902
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: who are oppressed in some ways. Of course we can

903
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: yell and scream and shout, but that is why allies

904
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: are important, right because allies already have more power, and

905
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: so being brought into that being supported is really essential.

906
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 3: Give me an example or two promising change.

907
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: I have the opportunity to work with several brands. For example,

908
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: I with Strava. Most recently, I went to this conference

909
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: Reuter's Momentum, which is a place that I never thought

910
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 1: that I would be, and so the CEO, Michael Horvath,

911
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: was given an opportunity to talk about Strava and the

912
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: choice for that conversation was about building diverse communities and

913
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: how Strava is working to expand their app to more people,

914
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: an app that began as an app for Michael and

915
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,959
Speaker 1: his friends who were white male cyclists, and recognizing that

916
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: in order for Strava to meet their goals of being,

917
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: you know, the record of the world's movement, that that

918
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: wasn't enough, right, So that to me is really powerful

919
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: because this is Michael and Strava recognizing that on this

920
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: significant stage Reuter's Momentum, what they want to do is

921
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: they want to address racial equity and adversity. So that

922
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: was that was powerful for me. I also want to

923
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: give a shout out to tre the running event, which

924
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: is an event that I remember looking at it like

925
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: seven years ago and looking at the imagery and the

926
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: programming and just being like, this is a place for

927
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 1: old white men to get together, right, And now being

928
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 1: myself and Kiera Smalls who's the executive director of RIDC,

929
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: and all the other RIDC board members really being integrated

930
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: into what the programming is and having conversations this is

931
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: the second year, but having conversations that aren't just about

932
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: that aren't like racism one oh one, but that are

933
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: talking about how do you build racial equity framework into

934
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: all of the work that you're doing, which means that

935
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: you have, yes, conversations and education around racial equity, but

936
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: you're also featuring people of color who are designers, who

937
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: are you know, content creators, Like we are black and

938
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: brown people are more than just talking about this experience,

939
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: we are also experts in many fields throughout the industry

940
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: and deserve space.

941
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 3: This makes me think about the other stat that you

942
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: had cited at the top half of your book, noting

943
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 3: that out of the five hundred plus woman that ran

944
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 3: the US Olympic marathon trials in twenty twenty, four of

945
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 3: them were black and one was African American. And the

946
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 3: craziest thing for me now looking back on that experience

947
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 3: as a white woman being there that day, is I

948
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 3: don't recall that for a second, right, Like I don't

949
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 3: recall looking at the field and thinking to myself like,

950
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 3: where are all the woman of color here, like what's

951
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: going on? Like No, But now in retrospect, like reading

952
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 3: that and being aware to that, it is clearly evident

953
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 3: that we need to do a better job of providing

954
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 3: and creating access and also opportunity instead of, you know,

955
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 3: to an extent of gatekeeping opportunity, how can we make

956
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 3: it more inclusive and provide.

957
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: In Yeah, I mean, and I remember seeing that, and

958
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: of course I was rooting for Alophine. And then I

959
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: saw the woman whose name escapes me, but she the

960
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: woman who identifies as African American, and she had her

961
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: hair and her fro and I was like throwing up

962
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: the fists and rooting for her. She's now I think

963
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: she's a Patagonia trail athlete. Right. But to your point,

964
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: awareness is key because we are all trained to or

965
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say, we are all trained for many white

966
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: people being the default all of the time, having everything

967
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: from history, to media, to businesses center. Your experience means

968
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: that you can walk into pretty much anywhere and be

969
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: represented and feel seen and you know safe, and so

970
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: you don't have an awareness that you that there might

971
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: not be people of color in that space. So I

972
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: think awareness is the first piece because without that awareness,

973
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: you can't implement change, right like, you can't change what

974
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: you can't see. That's also a reason why RIDC is

975
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: focusing on to key research projects. One that's in the

976
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: running industry at large about employment, so looking at like

977
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: we know that the industry is very white, but we

978
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: want to get all of those statistics around employment in

979
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: different sectors of the industry. And then one that's more

980
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 1: focused on trail because once we have those numbers, once

981
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: we can say, well the industry really is ninety five

982
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: percent white in terms of like leadership and ownership, then

983
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: we can chip away at it. So I hope that

984
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: my book is one that it does two things. It

985
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: creates a level of awareness and then it creates an

986
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 1: empowerment to do something about it. Now that you've seen

987
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 1: these statistics, what can you do? And for a coach

988
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: that might let's say you're a cross country coach, that

989
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 1: might be being more intentional with students, right, So, certainly

990
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 1: students will just show up, but going having conversation with

991
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: students who are talented and perhaps would like to be

992
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 1: in cross country, having conversations with them and their families

993
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: about what is stopping them from showing up right and

994
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: inviting them into the space. If you are in the

995
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: C suite or CEO, start revising your job descriptions, start

996
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: looking for the ways in which you can create mentorship

997
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: for talent that might be at entry level or other

998
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: positions so that they can begin to occupy these roles. Right,

999
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: each of us, in our own space can make a difference.

1000
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: And that's really what I hope this book shows.

1001
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 3: People, yeah, and very different experiences. Let's call it size

1002
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 3: inclusion and diversity versus you know, color and diversity. But

1003
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 3: you said it on that you hit the nail on

1004
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 3: the head with the concept of if you don't see her,

1005
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 3: can't be her. For so long, personally, I was frightened

1006
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: to go to any sort of run club or speed

1007
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 3: situation because I felt othered right like, I felt like

1008
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 3: I was too big to be there.

1009
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: I didn't belong there. No one there looked like me.

1010
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 3: And yes, again I acknowledge extremely different conversation, but it

1011
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 3: is important to identify what those barriers might be and

1012
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 3: how can we include people because at the end of

1013
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 3: the day, like that should be and I will should

1014
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 3: on that, like that should be the goal of clubs

1015
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 3: and culture that are for fun, that are for you know,

1016
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 3: we're just a bunch of adults running, right because we

1017
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 3: enjoy running, exactly.

1018
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: No, And you're so right, because the thing is, you know,

1019
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: when somebody what often happens is somebody shares an experience

1020
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: that's different than yours, and you want to shut it down, right,

1021
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: So you want to say, like, Emily, please, like what

1022
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Of course you can show up,

1023
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: But what I invite people to do is when you

1024
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: hear a perspective that's different than than yours, like, hold

1025
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: the tension of that experience being different from yours and

1026
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: also being valid, right, like and Emily saying that. Emily's

1027
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: not saying like and I hate all of you. We

1028
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: say I don't feel seen and I want to be

1029
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: part of this. Can you create an opening for me? Right?

1030
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: So it's like it's an invitation. Take it as an

1031
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: invitation rather than an attempt to erase your worldview or

1032
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: your truth.

1033
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

1034
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 3: Now I think this is a good point in our

1035
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 3: conversation to note that the title of your book was

1036
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 3: almost something else.

1037
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 2: Talk to us about that.

1038
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: Initially the title of my book was the Unbearable Whiteness

1039
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: of Running, And you know, that version of the book

1040
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: was more of a manifesto, more of something that I

1041
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: would say was kind of like an anti racism book

1042
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: that would go through and point out more instructionally what

1043
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: I saw is problematic in the industry. And in talks

1044
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: with my editor and publisher, there was this sentiment that

1045
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to write a book that centered whiteness.

1046
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to write a book that actually centered myself

1047
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: and my experience, and that made all of the difference.

1048
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: Trish Day is an incredible editor, and it allowed me

1049
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: to really be vulnerable, for people to get to know

1050
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: me through the book and therefore be a more powerful book. Right,

1051
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: because you go on this journey with me and you

1052
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: understand that each of us is always trying to do better,

1053
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: myself included. Right, I get things wrong all of the time.

1054
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: All of us do. That's normal and natural, but we

1055
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: still have to work together collectively to make changes that

1056
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: we all really care about. Because the good news is

1057
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: that I do believe that the running industry is well

1058
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: positioned to make change. We like doing really difficult, uncomfortable

1059
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: things for a long time. We can't stop talking about

1060
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: running and sharing it with people. We want everybody to move,

1061
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: and our industry depends on it. Right as demographics shift,

1062
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: we need to invite new people into this space. So

1063
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: I think we are very primed to make a change,

1064
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: and this book, I hope, is going to be an

1065
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: additional catalyst for that.

1066
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: What excites you right now?

1067
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: I am so excited that I have the opportunity to

1068
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: go on the road and meet all of these communities

1069
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: because I have friends who had books come out in

1070
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: the past two years and they couldn't do that. And

1071
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: there is just nothing more special than showing up and

1072
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: somebody telling you their story and somebody thanking you for

1073
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: for sharing something that resonates with them, or somebody thanking

1074
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: you for pushing them to see the world in a

1075
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: new way. I just, ultimately, I love people and I

1076
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: love community. So the opportunity to have this tool, my

1077
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,959
Speaker 1: book Running Well Black, that leads to these meaningful conversations

1078
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: is like gold. Like anybody who wants to write a book, Man,

1079
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: it is really difficult and you will feel like you're

1080
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: losing your mind a lot, But this opportunity to connect

1081
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: with people on a deeper level is worth it.

1082
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: I think that we can all agree that we are

1083
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 3: different people now in twenty twenty two than we were

1084
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 3: before the pandemic.

1085
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 2: So much has happened.

1086
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 3: It feels like there's been eight years within like a

1087
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 3: three year period. With that said, when you look back

1088
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 3: on the last two years outside of your book and

1089
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 3: this moment, what would you say has been one of

1090
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 3: your proudest accomplishments as a disruptor, as someone who is

1091
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 3: standing up for more diversity, inclusion and equality in the space.

1092
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: You know, what I'm most proud of is that I

1093
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: am able to move seamlessly between being in front of

1094
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: the scenes and behind the scenes, and then that role

1095
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 1: behind the scenes championing other people. Over the past few years,

1096
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity to say other people's names and rooms,

1097
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: to elevate and uplift people's work, and that is really cool,

1098
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: right I'm not ready to disappear from the spotlight or

1099
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: from in front of the scenes, like there's still a

1100
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: lot of work that I want to do, but I

1101
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: have had just such a cool opportunity to learn about

1102
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: what other people are doing and to give them the support,

1103
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: whether it's time, whether it's financial, whether it's just there

1104
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: to listen. I have been able to do that so much,

1105
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: and I want to continue to.

1106
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 3: Do that for anyone else who has a mission, a message,

1107
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 3: a passion that is close and dear to their heart

1108
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 3: and maybe hasn't had the success that you have had

1109
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 3: in championing your cause, in showing up and getting in

1110
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 3: front and getting eyes. Is there anything that you would

1111
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 3: offer to that person on their journey toward making a difference.

1112
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: I would actually say, be more collaborative, or think about

1113
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: whether you're being collaborative. Sometimes when we have a vision,

1114
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, we're often taught like you have to relentlessly

1115
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: pursue this single vision. But I found that I'm most

1116
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: successful and also joyful when I'm collaborating with other people.

1117
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: So as you're sharing what it is that you're excited about,

1118
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: ask and is there a way that I can support

1119
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: what you're doing? Is there a need that you have

1120
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: that I can fulfill? Right? And that sort of also

1121
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 1: that allows people to not feel a sense of competition.

1122
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, we can work together on this.

1123
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: So always look for ways that as you're building up

1124
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: your gift, that you're looking to collaborate with other people

1125
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: and looking to also support other people's gifts. And I

1126
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: just think, you go, you get further with that strategy.

1127
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 3: It brings me back to that idea that if you

1128
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 3: want love, you have to give love, Like if you

1129
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 3: want to make a difference, then you have to embrace

1130
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 3: all of that, all that comes.

1131
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: With exactly, it's an ecosystem. You have to find yourself

1132
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: in it and you have to support it and breathe

1133
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: life into it and know that others will do the

1134
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: same for you.

1135
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely all right, right now, my friend, you have

1136
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of advice. Let's

1137
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 3: go back to right when you started running, in that

1138
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 3: moment where you felt so beside yourself, looking to alternative

1139
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 3: substances to help you get through your days. You have

1140
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: an opportunity to offer that Alison a piece of advice.

1141
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 2: Knowing what you know, Now, what do you tell her?

1142
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: I would say, be patient that the things that you

1143
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: want are going to take longer than you'd like, but

1144
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 1: they're coming. Often, when I think of my own this

1145
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: only is for me. I can only speak of my

1146
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: own journey. But when I think about, you know, moments

1147
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: when I wished I wasn't here, when I was overdosing

1148
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: on pills, it was a lack of patience or belief

1149
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 1: that things would get better. Right, I wanted things to

1150
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: feel better in that moment, So I would tell Alison,

1151
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: just be patient, right, it's going to take time, But

1152
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: you will not always feel this way. The situation will

1153
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: one day be so incredible and lovely and overwhelming that

1154
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: you won't even know what to do with yourself.

1155
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 3: You won't even know what to do, you said it.

1156
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 3: Collaboration is important. Support is important. How can the hurdler

1157
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 3: support you? How can they follow along with you? Give

1158
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 3: us all your details.

1159
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: First and foremost, please buy my book pre ordered if

1160
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: you're able book purchases. The book industry is like just

1161
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: it's a it's a new thing for me to find out.

1162
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: But book orders are essential to you know, like pre

1163
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: orders in particular, let the industry know that this book

1164
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: is going to be meaningful. But yeah, if you, if you,

1165
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: if you're even curious about this book, by it and

1166
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: support me. You can follow me on Instagram at Alison

1167
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: m as and Mary Dezier. My website is Alisonamdizer dot com.

1168
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's what I would say. The other piece

1169
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: that will help not just me, but so many people

1170
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: is to develop this awareness and curiosity. Right. I never

1171
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: get mad at people who ask me things out of curiosity.

1172
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: I get mad at people who ask me things because

1173
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: they intentionally want to harm me. But stay curious and

1174
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: buy my book.

1175
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 3: Stay curious, buy the book, and stay kind while you're

1176
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 3: at it. I'm over at Emily a Body at Hurdle

1177
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 3: Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered.

1178
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time