WEBVTT - Are Open Marriages Crazy?

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<v Speaker 1>It's I Do Part two and I'm one of your hosts,

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<v Speaker 1>Jane Kramer. And usually on this podcast we are talking

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<v Speaker 1>about people that are in their chapter two looking for

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<v Speaker 1>love again after divorce. But what if the key to

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<v Speaker 1>not getting divorced is ethical non monogamy. We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>dive into this today. My guest is documenting her experience

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<v Speaker 1>with an open marriage through her social media Openly Committed.

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<v Speaker 1>Please welcome Danielle to the podcast. Danielle, thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for coming on I Do Part two. We really

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate you coming on. And you know, I have to

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<v Speaker 1>say it's interesting because you know, we've got different hosts

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<v Speaker 1>for different guests. And when I got sent your rundown,

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, this is funny. I know why

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<v Speaker 1>they picked me. I was like cuz I was like

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<v Speaker 1>this girl was like huge joke. iHeart I like it.

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<v Speaker 2>Why did they pick you? Now? I need to know.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so I my last husband very happily married now,

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<v Speaker 1>but my ex husband was have multiple, multiple multiple affairs

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<v Speaker 1>in our marriage, and so I have quite an opinion

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes around when it comes to uh cheating.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I've I've spoken to people before that

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<v Speaker 1>have been in open relationships. And again, I just come

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<v Speaker 1>from a place of I don't know how that works

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<v Speaker 1>when I've been in something. But mine was so different, right,

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<v Speaker 1>because mine was a lot of lying and deceit, and

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like in an open marriage there is more

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<v Speaker 1>communication around it.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's I have a lot of opinions about cheating too.

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<v Speaker 1>So okay, great, well let's start there. So let me

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<v Speaker 1>let me let me hear your opinions on cheating.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think the definition of cheating is

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<v Speaker 2>betrayal and is lying. And I think so often I've

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<v Speaker 2>ended up talking to hundreds of people exploring open relationships

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<v Speaker 2>for multiple reasons. And the thing that I've heard from

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<v Speaker 2>people who've been cheated on is they look back on

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<v Speaker 2>the periods of time where they were cheated on and

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<v Speaker 2>they don't know what part was real and what what

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<v Speaker 2>part to believe and what was true, And all of

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<v Speaker 2>a sudden they're in a situation where they can't they

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<v Speaker 2>doubt huge chunks of the relationship. And what a terrible, heartbreaking,

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<v Speaker 2>untrusting place to be in. And I'd be curious, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>how you how you felt after kind of going through

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<v Speaker 2>a betrayal, And so I think when when my husband

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<v Speaker 2>brought up the idea of an open relationship, and he

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<v Speaker 2>brought up the idea about two to three months into dating, very.

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<v Speaker 1>Early on, oh before even being married.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, we'd been dating for two months when

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<v Speaker 2>he brought up the idea of exploring an open relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>Neither of us had ever been in an open relationship before.

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<v Speaker 2>We had no idea what we were doing. This is

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<v Speaker 2>like twenty ten. You didn't have TikTok influencers and blogs

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<v Speaker 2>about the topic back then, and so it was something

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<v Speaker 2>that we were going to explore. But his reasoning for

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<v Speaker 2>exploring an open relationship is that he had seen affairs

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<v Speaker 2>destroy families, destroy people's confidence, and he wanted to affair

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<v Speaker 2>proof our relationship. That was his initial reasoning for bringing

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<v Speaker 2>up an open relationship in the first place. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I think it can be a wonderful way to have

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<v Speaker 2>transparency and truth in a relationship, but it does not

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<v Speaker 2>work for everyone, and there are there are cheaters and

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<v Speaker 2>open relationships too. Like being an open relationship is not

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<v Speaker 2>carte blanche to cheat, We just define cheating differently, and

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<v Speaker 2>we establish rules and boundaries that have to be equally

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<v Speaker 2>respected the same way they wouldn't a monogamous relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>For those that haven't followed along with your journey on

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<v Speaker 1>social media, do you discuss the boundaries around an open

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<v Speaker 1>relationship in your marriage?

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<v Speaker 2>I do, yes. So we've had rules that have evolved

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<v Speaker 2>over the years, and I don't think that there's a

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<v Speaker 2>common rule set or agreement subset set that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>every open relationship, every couple follows. They're always different. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I think one of the things that we did,

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<v Speaker 2>what we spent the first two years of our open

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<v Speaker 2>relationship doing, is figuring out like, Okay, what are our rules,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, are how are we going to define our rules?

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<v Speaker 2>How do we define safe sex, how do we for

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<v Speaker 2>each other and eventually with other people? How do we

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<v Speaker 2>have really difficult conversations, you know, how do we define cheating?

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<v Speaker 2>I think that that one's really important. And then also

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<v Speaker 2>setting the goals of like what do we eventually want

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<v Speaker 2>this relationship to be? And I think that happens no

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<v Speaker 2>matter what relationship you're in, but you're if you're in

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<v Speaker 2>an open relationship, you really have to have those conversations

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<v Speaker 2>because you're essentially deciding to not follow the set standard

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<v Speaker 2>monogamous guidebook that society and culture and religion have kind

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<v Speaker 2>of set for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you seen the movie Splitsville? I haven't got to Johnson.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay, I really really want to. I definitely need.

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<v Speaker 1>To, Okay, because it is, you know, about having an

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<v Speaker 1>open marriage. So Dakota Johnson's marriage, her husband wanted, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to have this open marriage. But it's interesting because they

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<v Speaker 1>don't They don't tell the other person that they're having sex.

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<v Speaker 1>They just kind of assume, like when he goes away

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<v Speaker 1>for his work trip in New York, that he's most

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<v Speaker 1>likely with someone. But it created this no I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to say, well, I guess jealousy, but also this

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<v Speaker 1>insecurity that he's choosing to leave our home to go

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<v Speaker 1>be with someone else. So do those feelings come up

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<v Speaker 1>when your husband wants to go be with somebody else?

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<v Speaker 2>So you're talking to me after I've been doing this

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<v Speaker 2>for fifteen years, So I think that's a pretty big

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<v Speaker 2>difference between you know, our agreements and the way that

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<v Speaker 2>I felt early on in our relationship when we were

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<v Speaker 2>new not only to being open, but also like new

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<v Speaker 2>to our relationship. Sure, and you know, we had a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more of those those insecurities and jealousies. I experienced

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<v Speaker 2>a ton of jealousy the first couple of years of

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<v Speaker 2>opening up. And now, you know, we've been together for

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years. We've been open that entire time. I talk

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<v Speaker 2>abouts now as we've had phases. We've had phases of polyamory,

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<v Speaker 2>phases being open, we've had phases of monogamy. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>but we've been together for fifteen years and so we

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<v Speaker 2>you know, are the types of jealousy that I experience

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<v Speaker 2>are very different. I wish I'd seen the movie so

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<v Speaker 2>that I could right.

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<v Speaker 1>But for you, like in the beginning, did it make

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<v Speaker 1>you well? First of all? Like in the very beginning

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<v Speaker 1>when he brought it up, did that make you sad?

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<v Speaker 1>Or was it something where you thought, Okay, I like

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<v Speaker 1>this guy. I'm going to fall in line with what

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to do, because it was or is that

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<v Speaker 1>something that you wanted to do?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I was, I was like, what the fuck? Oh wait,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I'd met my guy. I thought I'd met

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<v Speaker 2>the one, my prince in shining armor, except you know

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<v Speaker 2>modern times. So we were on a ski slope, right

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<v Speaker 2>and I, you know, I met this guy. We had

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<v Speaker 2>instant chemistry. We had this sort of whirlwind, wonderful, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like rom come worthy first couple of months of dating,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I feel like he you know, I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like this idea exploring an open relationship came out of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's so funny is like the words he used

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<v Speaker 2>were probably were probably along the lines of like, Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I have this idea. It's something I want to explore.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you be open to considering an open relationship. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't an ultimatum. It wasn't even a like I want

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<v Speaker 2>to do this. It was let's explore this. And even

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<v Speaker 2>that made me feel angry, pissed off, embarrassed, Like, all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, I tell my friends that this guy

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<v Speaker 2>that I thought was the one now I want to

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<v Speaker 2>explore an open relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>Get to me, that'd be a huge red flag. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>be like, oh, so you just want to cheat on me,

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<v Speaker 1>So then why have you in a relationship?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But that's where I started to like, that's absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>where I started to I think where I started to

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<v Speaker 2>come around to the idea is that it was something

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<v Speaker 2>that we were just exploring. We spent a year, You're

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<v Speaker 2>just doing research and talking about it, and you know, like,

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<v Speaker 2>what could this look like. And I understood his why,

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<v Speaker 2>which was, like, you know, he wanted to affair proof

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<v Speaker 2>the relationship. That's where it started for him. And at

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<v Speaker 2>that time, I didn't have a why, Like I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have a very clear why I want to be in

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<v Speaker 2>an open relationship. I do now. I'm bisexual. I enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>dating both men and women. I find this incredible level

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<v Speaker 2>of freedom. I feel like my partner enables me to

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<v Speaker 2>have a bigger life than I would if it was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just just the two of us. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like we've created a relationship that's really tailored to us

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<v Speaker 2>and nobody else. And I see, you know this, I

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<v Speaker 2>see this open relationship of ours is now kind of

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<v Speaker 2>more of a mindset than anything else. You know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to figure things out. We're going to change

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<v Speaker 2>as our desires do, as our libidos do, as our

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<v Speaker 2>interest and other people do. Is the things that we

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<v Speaker 2>want to explore do, and our relationship has enough flexibility

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of evolve as we do. I couldn't have

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<v Speaker 2>told you that fifteen years ago. I was like, what right?

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<v Speaker 1>Who was he? The first person to step out though?

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess it's not stepping out when you're technically

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<v Speaker 1>signing up for it, but.

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<v Speaker 2>We took baby steps. It's interesting I think seeing open

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<v Speaker 2>relationships portrayed in films and movies and so film and

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<v Speaker 2>TV nowadays, and even on social media, and also so

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<v Speaker 2>many people I've talked to in this process because I

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<v Speaker 2>think people are like, Okay, great, let's explore an open relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>And then it's like they go and have a threesome

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<v Speaker 2>or like they go and like have a relationship with

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<v Speaker 2>someone else for a weekend. I was like, wow, it

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<v Speaker 2>feels like you're jumping into a deep end with sharks.

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<v Speaker 2>In our case, we talked about it. I kissed someone,

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<v Speaker 2>We talked about it. He kissed someone, We talked about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I went on a date and didn't do anything, and

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<v Speaker 2>we talked about it, and then he did, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we talked about it. And we went to a swingers

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<v Speaker 2>club but didn't do anything, and we talked about Then

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<v Speaker 2>we went to swingers club and did a few things,

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<v Speaker 2>then talked about it. You know, there was for us,

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<v Speaker 2>it was definitely a progression and of baby steps where

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<v Speaker 2>we were constantly checking in, Okay, how do you feel

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<v Speaker 2>how even little things like he kissed someone? It was like,

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<v Speaker 2>how do I feel about the fact that he kissed someone?

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<v Speaker 2>And I had to actually go through that entire process.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, Okay, him kissing someone else doesn't take

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<v Speaker 2>away from him kissing me. He had an experience that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of brought him joy, and how do I feel

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<v Speaker 2>about that? You know? And so I think that with

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<v Speaker 2>taking those baby step per aggressions, we were able to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of tiptoe into is does this make you uncomfortable? Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Do we want to stop or do we want to

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<v Speaker 2>figure something out? Yeah? I don't recommend for anyone opening

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<v Speaker 2>up a relationship. I don't recommend, you know, immediately going

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<v Speaker 2>off and having another relationship with another person. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like that's too much, too soon, But it definitely happens,

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<v Speaker 2>plenty of people do it.

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<v Speaker 1>How much of your fifteen years has it been monogamous?

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<v Speaker 2>Would you think, Oh, that's a good question, about two

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<v Speaker 2>years in total, maybe two and a half out of

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<v Speaker 2>the fifteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Were those happy years or were those more volatile years?

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<v Speaker 1>Or I'm curious, like what the difference between when you

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<v Speaker 1>were monogamous and when you guys were with other partners?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that so, as I said, fifteen years

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<v Speaker 2>of our relationship there have been. So we had a

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<v Speaker 2>phase of monogamy when my son was born, because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if you're a parent or your parent.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I've got three kids. We've got three kids and

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<v Speaker 1>a step son.

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<v Speaker 2>So you probably know that when your kids are young,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have enough time to like sleep or date

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<v Speaker 2>each other.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm exhausted exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're like, I I'm if I can get dinner

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<v Speaker 2>on a table like half the nights of the week.

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<v Speaker 2>So that phase of monogamy I think was just kind

0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.120
<v Speaker 2>of natural. You know. There was all We're so excited

0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.080
<v Speaker 2>to be parents. We wanted to spend so much time together,

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.640
<v Speaker 2>so much time with our son, and I think we

0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of woke up one day and we're like, oh,

0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:48.720
<v Speaker 2>we've been monogamous for a year. Cool, that was it.

0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:49.840
<v Speaker 2>It was not a big deal.

0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I'm astericking real fast, so I don't forget.

0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.959
<v Speaker 1>How do you what do you tell how old your kid?

0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Our son is eleven, my daughter elevens sweet?

0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Sweet? So when they're older, is this something that you

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.600
<v Speaker 1>guys are going to tell them? Because obviously your stuff

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.480
<v Speaker 1>is on social media, so they're going to be watching

0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.360
<v Speaker 1>social media. So is it something that I mean, have

0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.320
<v Speaker 1>you talked to them about it? Or are you going

0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:14.640
<v Speaker 1>to or what are you going to say? And then

0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 1>what are you I guess modeling then for what a

0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:23.680
<v Speaker 1>marriage looks like and for their values and opinions around

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:23.959
<v Speaker 1>it all.

0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so my son already knows. We told him about

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 2>a year and a bit ago. It was. I mean,

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.880
<v Speaker 2>it was a pretty easy casual conversation at that time.

0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.040
<v Speaker 2>And I think I think there's a couple of things. So,

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.200
<v Speaker 2>first of all, my children know better than anyone else

0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 2>how much my husband and I love each other. They

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.679
<v Speaker 2>see it every day and they're raised in the household

0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 2>with it every day, and they do not see us

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 2>dating other people. And it sounds like you're divorced.

0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm married now. Oh, you're married now, but you asked

0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 1>to a lovely man, Yes, the man that cheated. I

0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.520
<v Speaker 1>do have two kids with and then one with the new.

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.199
<v Speaker 2>How long did it take you to introduce your new

0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 2>partner to your existing kids?

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Man, let's see oct I met in October, November, December, January.

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 1>But three and a half months.

0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, interesting, we actually waited. We wait longer than that. Yeah,

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.280
<v Speaker 2>So if we're in serious relationships with someone else, which

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>has only happened twice in our fifteen years.

0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:19.959
<v Speaker 1>Oh, so you introduce them to people that you're with.

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.920
<v Speaker 2>We've introduced them as friends of friends.

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 1>We got it, got it in using But.

0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it takes a long time to introduce someone

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.520
<v Speaker 2>that's an important part of your life to your children.

0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 2>And it took us, you know, we waited I think

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.160
<v Speaker 2>five and then six months to introduce anyone to our kids.

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.920
<v Speaker 2>But when we told our son, and we told him like,

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:41.839
<v Speaker 2>Mom and we love each other very much, we're in

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 2>an open relationship. What we have other people we really

0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 2>care about. We have other people that we have feelings for,

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and one of them you've met. And so then we

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>were able to say, like this person who you've met

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.680
<v Speaker 2>in the past, who was introduced as a friend of

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 2>the family, you know you had a great experience with

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.080
<v Speaker 2>that person, Like that's someone that mom and didn't care

0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 2>about as well. So I think it's we're pretty Oh

0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 2>it's funny. These feel like such hard conversations to have

0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 2>without a lot of content, without the entire context. But

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 2>I think that when we tell our son what we're

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 2>modeling to answer your question, like what do we model

0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 2>for our kids. We're very careful with what we tell

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>them and when. What we're telling our son when he's ten,

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 2>when he was ten, which is when we told him,

0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 2>will be a little bit different than the conversations we

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 2>have with him when he's eighteen. Right when we introduce

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 2>our children to people that we were dating, which again

0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 2>has only happened twice as a friend of a family member,

0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 2>because honestly, it's kind of true. It's true. It's someone

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.400
<v Speaker 2>like we care about, it's someone we would love to

0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 2>introduce to our children. But we're careful how we do that.

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 2>The way that we talk to our children is about

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 2>love and about relationships and about caring for people. We're

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 2>not talking to our children about sex. We don't talk

0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 2>to about our children about our sex lives. It's not

0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 2>like we're going to talk to them about like sex

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.160
<v Speaker 2>lives with other people. Well, it's crazy, and I think

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 2>that long term, the thing that I hope to model

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 2>for my kids is that you know, we're in a

0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 2>relationship that works for us that took us a long

0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>time to figure out, that we constantly support each other

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 2>through all these huge changes, and we're also kind of

0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 2>living pretty authentically and we figured out a relationship that

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 2>allows us to do so. And I'm hoping that by

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.920
<v Speaker 2>living this authentically and like, by by creating the relationship

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.280
<v Speaker 2>that works for me, my kids will not only feel

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 2>like they have permission to do so themselves, but they'll

0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 2>see it. They'll see that, oh, mom and dad did it.

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.160
<v Speaker 2>I can definitely do this too, no matter what that

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 2>looks like for my kids.

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So what happens if you so these people that

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 1>you have introduced your kids to obviously were someone that

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.600
<v Speaker 1>was they you said you were dating. What happens if

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 1>you really catch feelings and you want to be with

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 1>just them?

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 2>I guess we'll figure it out.

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Is that something you guys have talked about or we.

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Have definitely talked about. It's only once where my husband

0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 2>was dating someone and we had the conversations like what

0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.200
<v Speaker 2>if she lived with us? Like, okay, how would that

0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.520
<v Speaker 2>look like? But it wasn't something she was interested in

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.000
<v Speaker 2>and could it happen? Yeah? But I guess there's also

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 2>this thing, is like, if either of us fell in

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>love with someone else and loved that person more than

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 2>each other, would we go and be monogamous with that person?

0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Probably not? I mean, we're in an open relationship. We've been.

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 2>I know that people use the terms open relationship and polyamory.

0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 2>I tend to use them interchangeably. But if I was

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>feeling if I was polyamorous, So if I was in

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 2>a romantic, committed relationship with someone else as well as

0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 2>a romantic committed relationship with my husband, we would figure

0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.960
<v Speaker 2>out how that works. It's hard for me to imagine

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 2>leaving this incredible life that I've built with my husband

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 2>and our kids and our family for someone else, given

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the fact that, for lack of a better word, I

0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:07.720
<v Speaker 2>get to have both.

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Right. But here's my question, though, I guess, and I'm

0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 1>sure you hear this all the time too, is why

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:15.640
<v Speaker 1>be married at all? Then?

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 2>I want it to be, But.

0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 1>You're not with that just that person marriage is if

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>you I mean, I guess, let's I don't know the

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.439
<v Speaker 1>actual definition is, but to me, it's the married to

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 1>one person, and you're I don't know, I mean, maybe

0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 1>that's the old school mentality with it, where it's like,

0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.719
<v Speaker 1>I guess you're changing with the typical old school version

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:40.879
<v Speaker 1>of what a marriage is.

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that is what we're doing, and I

0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.959
<v Speaker 2>think you're seeing it. I think you're seeing it more

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.359
<v Speaker 2>and more nowadays. You're seeing a lot of people who,

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:50.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, feel like their gender is very fluid, their

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 2>sexuality is very fluid. And so for someone who is

0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 2>expressing you know, bisexuality, pan sexuality and feels like they're

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, their generous fluid or they then also expected

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.119
<v Speaker 2>to only be in a monogamous married relationship as their goal.

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think that the constructs and the goals

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 2>of relationships are going to look very different ten years

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.680
<v Speaker 2>from now for this upcoming generation. I think that I

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know about you, but I'm forty one, so I

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>feel like I'm sort of in that in between phase

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.919
<v Speaker 2>between you know, my parents' generation and their definition of

0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.960
<v Speaker 2>what a really great marriage looks like and what the

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.880
<v Speaker 2>next generation is going to look like. And I guess

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 2>I guess an to flip it on, to turn this

0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.439
<v Speaker 2>on its head. Do you think that a marriage is

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 2>more than sexual exclusivity?

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.240
<v Speaker 1>Do I think a marriage is more than sexual exclusivity?

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that sexual exclusivity is the most important

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.320
<v Speaker 2>thing to marry.

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 1>In a marriage? Yeah? Interesting, Okay, I do, But again

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:59.119
<v Speaker 1>that's my how I was. I guess brought up thinking that,

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, my parents, it's got divorced because my dad cheated.

0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, So what is marriage a man and a

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.760
<v Speaker 1>woman staying faithfully together. I guess that's my yeah, and

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 1>then just to get the old school values around it all.

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.199
<v Speaker 1>But again, I've messed up many times where I'm not

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:22.359
<v Speaker 1>messed up, but I've I've had had multiple marriages because

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, I've been trying to find that marriage that

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 1>I ideal, that I dreamt of as a as a

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:32.920
<v Speaker 1>gal girl. Right, So I've married the wrong people in

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 1>that quest, but I do I personally could never open

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.879
<v Speaker 1>up a marriage, and I love having conversations with people,

0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.639
<v Speaker 1>you know that have different differing views and opinions, and

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.520
<v Speaker 1>I see how it can work for other people. I personally,

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>going through what I've been through with my ex, I

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 1>don't see a world where, you know, Even Alan and

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I joked when we were in the car after watching

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 1>splits Pille and I'm like, I don't mean to be

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 1>closed off around it. I was like, but if you

0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.120
<v Speaker 1>ever came to me with that, there's just no way

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.640
<v Speaker 1>in hell I would be okay with it, like ever.

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, He's like, same, you know, but you know,

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.680
<v Speaker 1>I do think there were some people that can work.

0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 1>And what are you know, for you guys, how has

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.919
<v Speaker 1>it made you guys stronger in your marriage having this

0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:20.879
<v Speaker 1>open relationship?

0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 2>So I would say that right now you're seeing in

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.959
<v Speaker 2>the US, I think it's four to five percent of

0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:32.159
<v Speaker 2>the US population rec is consensually non monogamous, So it

0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.439
<v Speaker 2>means that like ninety five percent of the population is monogamous. Like,

0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:41.520
<v Speaker 2>monogamy is what works for most people, and I think

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.440
<v Speaker 2>so to your question was like, kind of what makes

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:45.200
<v Speaker 2>it work for us?

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, how how has it strengthened your marriage? You know,

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 1>like what is what is the positive you know in it?

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.119
<v Speaker 2>I think the positive for us is I mean, I

0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.199
<v Speaker 2>will say the level of transparency, you know, And I

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>think that the kind of going back to the betrayal,

0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:06.000
<v Speaker 2>right when I when my husband brought the idea and said,

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.800
<v Speaker 2>let's a fair proof the relationship, one of the biggest

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.920
<v Speaker 2>conversations that we had was like complete transparency and how

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.840
<v Speaker 2>important that was to us. And I think even if

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 2>we decided to be monogamous, like even if we'd gone

0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.959
<v Speaker 2>through this whole process of exploring an open relationship and

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 2>then a couple of years in decide, you know what

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 2>we want to be in monigamous, which is absolutely an

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 2>option on the table. I think that we would have

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 2>really learned a couple of things about our relationship anyway,

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.240
<v Speaker 2>which is how important transparency is. It's like, I do

0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 2>I want to know if you're attracted to someone, if

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.719
<v Speaker 2>you're hanging out with friends, Like I want to like

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.000
<v Speaker 2>have that level of detail because I care about you.

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's a level of deep honesty too, and like

0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.159
<v Speaker 1>really knowing your partner because there's so many closeted people.

0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm not just talking about their preferences, but when it

0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.919
<v Speaker 1>comes to them not knowing what their fetishes are or

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:57.399
<v Speaker 1>they're you know what I mean, because they're too afraid

0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 1>to say anything exactly or be judged or yeah.

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean this is that again. Kind of going on

0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.320
<v Speaker 2>that note, you know, I think in my mid thirties

0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:11.480
<v Speaker 2>there were things that I wanted to try sexually, and

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.800
<v Speaker 2>because we have this level of transparency, it was really

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:15.359
<v Speaker 2>easy for me to go to my partner be like,

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.360
<v Speaker 2>so I have an idea.

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally, I could say how that'd be so liberating

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.280
<v Speaker 1>and open and free and then being so connected because deep,

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:29.680
<v Speaker 1>true transparency and honesty is the most connective thing for couples.

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and I feel like that at its foundation has

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.240
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with the relationship style. Monogamous not monagamous,

0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.080
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter. I feel like I get to go to

0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:38.960
<v Speaker 2>my partner and say there's something I want to try.

0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm feeling this, I feel you know, I desire this.

0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm not feeling desirable. I want to try this thing

0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:47.199
<v Speaker 2>that's new. I want to be pushed outside of my

0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 2>comfort zone. And I think the difference with my partner

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.159
<v Speaker 2>and I is most of those things, like we will

0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:55.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of figure out together, but there is this element

0:22:55.960 --> 0:23:01.520
<v Speaker 2>which is like, okay, Danielle, Like, if I wanted to

0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.159
<v Speaker 2>try something that my husband doesn't necessarily want to or

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't enjoy, then I have an opportunity to go and

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 2>explore that and experience that with someone else, and it

0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.399
<v Speaker 2>could be a friend. Right. I'm a big outdoor enthusiast,

0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 2>a ski I love hiking. My husband does not. My

0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:20.359
<v Speaker 2>husband needs a goal. He's like, oh, we're hiking. We're

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 2>hiking from point A to point B. And I'm like, no,

0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.440
<v Speaker 2>it's about flowers and the views and like experience. He's like, no,

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.080
<v Speaker 2>it'd be and so I get to have those experiences, yes,

0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.000
<v Speaker 2>with my friends who will do all these things with me,

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.160
<v Speaker 2>but also I think some other in some other ways,

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, especially from you'd mentioned kind of like kinks

0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 2>and getting to explore things outside of your comfort zone.

0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.280
<v Speaker 2>I get to do that. I get to I kind

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.160
<v Speaker 2>of have all of the options available to me, including

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:51.040
<v Speaker 2>the options that my husband might necessarily not be interested in.

0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:55.040
<v Speaker 1>For sure. I have a question when you are exploring

0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 1>or want to explore something, do you I don't know,

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.199
<v Speaker 1>is there apps for this or do you? And then

0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.879
<v Speaker 1>when when you do meet someone, do you say I

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 1>am married? Like you have to go through all that

0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.719
<v Speaker 1>right obviously that's probably a boundary for your husband.

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:14.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, So total transparency on my dating profiles, I

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.639
<v Speaker 2>say I'm married, I'm not monogamous with two kids. And interestingly,

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.280
<v Speaker 2>I think because dating apps have changed so much that

0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 2>you do have dating apps that are dedicated to the

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 2>non monogamous, polyamorous spaces now feel hashtag open. I believe

0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.439
<v Speaker 2>even some of the other more standard ones have you know,

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.639
<v Speaker 2>have drop downs now where you can select interested in

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:38.480
<v Speaker 2>being open, nominogamous, et cetera. So I think that that's

0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 2>probably right now, the easiest way to kind of to

0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:44.400
<v Speaker 2>find people that you're interested in dating. I also kind

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:46.760
<v Speaker 2>of meet a lot of people in real life. I

0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:49.320
<v Speaker 2>think one of the things that the thing about being

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.600
<v Speaker 2>in an open relationship, I am not always dating. I

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 2>think that there's this perception because I'm an oship, Oh

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.040
<v Speaker 2>my god, I must be having sex with everybody.

0:24:57.119 --> 0:24:58.919
<v Speaker 1>I was like, No, such a good point.

0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:02.919
<v Speaker 2>I still have enough like years and toast account everybody, Like, seriously, guys,

0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:09.560
<v Speaker 2>it's not that crazy and so and I think, what's

0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:11.879
<v Speaker 2>but I think what's interesting is that if I do

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:15.639
<v Speaker 2>meet someone, I have a connection, there's no limit to

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.120
<v Speaker 2>what that connection could be. You know. It could be

0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:22.120
<v Speaker 2>it could be a just really intimate friendship. It could

0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 2>be a friend with benefits. It could be a comment,

0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:26.640
<v Speaker 2>it could be a one night stand, it could be

0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:31.440
<v Speaker 2>something that evolves into a deeper relationship. It's like, I'm

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:34.840
<v Speaker 2>very rarely just like on a mission to date and

0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:39.199
<v Speaker 2>find someone. That's almost never happened. It's much more that

0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 2>I get to live life, and then the people that

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of come into my life, I get to say, like, oh,

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 2>is this friends or is this you know, the entire

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 2>rainbow of other options that are actually available bull to

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:53.879
<v Speaker 2>me because of my open relationship style.

0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:58.399
<v Speaker 1>Got it? Okay, you have a okay question? Because this

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>has happened. I know how this has happened to someone before.

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:05.119
<v Speaker 1>But someone had told a girlfriend of mine that they

0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:08.480
<v Speaker 1>were in an open marriage, but come to find out

0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:10.679
<v Speaker 1>they were not an open marriage, and that was just

0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:14.200
<v Speaker 1>what he was saying. So and that's called cheating. Yeah.

0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Have you run into that where people are on these

0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:18.159
<v Speaker 1>sites and they're saying they're in the open marriage, but really,

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 1>like you come to find out that this like the

0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 1>wife or the husband is actually not okay with it.

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I hate that this happens, and it happens so for

0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:30.320
<v Speaker 2>anyone listening. So I'm openly committed. Up on social channels,

0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.720
<v Speaker 2>I talk about my experiences, stories, recommendations for anyone exploring

0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:38.159
<v Speaker 2>non monogamy. And I think that this one is a

0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:41.920
<v Speaker 2>huge pet peeve of mine because I think that it

0:26:42.080 --> 0:26:46.119
<v Speaker 2>really it doesn't endjusice to most people who are in

0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.159
<v Speaker 2>an open relationship. It's I think it's one of the

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.680
<v Speaker 2>things because in open relationships and polyamory are trending. It's

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 2>become something that people can say more easily when they're

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:57.520
<v Speaker 2>just cheating, and I hate that that's the case. It

0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:01.640
<v Speaker 2>has happened to me twice where you know, would be like, oh,

0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:04.040
<v Speaker 2>this is really really interesting. But I think when you've

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 2>been in an open relationship for a long time, you

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:08.359
<v Speaker 2>can start to ask questions and then the red flags

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.879
<v Speaker 2>go up. So I will always ask someone like, hey, like,

0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:12.680
<v Speaker 2>what are your boundaries? You know, what are the things

0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:15.840
<v Speaker 2>that are discussed in your existing relationship? What are the

0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.440
<v Speaker 2>agreements that you have with your partner? And the simple

0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 2>question is like, does your partner or you're on a

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:23.160
<v Speaker 2>date with me right now. I have dated people who

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:25.639
<v Speaker 2>have what's called a don't ask, don't tell policy in

0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:28.919
<v Speaker 2>their relationship, and you just you just ask a couple

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:33.439
<v Speaker 2>more questions. And I have requested to like FaceTime or

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:36.359
<v Speaker 2>text message a partner before. But honestly, if I'm getting

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.400
<v Speaker 2>a spider sense that this person's not really open, I'm

0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:42.119
<v Speaker 2>not going there. I'm not interested. And I think on

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the flip side of it, my husband has been on

0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:46.520
<v Speaker 2>dates with women before and they ask to FaceTime me.

0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 1>And what is that like? Like? Truthfully, like you're like, hey, Carl,

0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:54.399
<v Speaker 1>like what We're like, Yeah, like what there isn't like

0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:58.199
<v Speaker 1>a percentage I know, the fifteen year. But okay, so

0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:01.199
<v Speaker 1>now let's say at the fifteen year, there isn't like

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 1>a little piece that's one percent little jealous.

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:06.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh, of course there is. No. Here's the You

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:07.960
<v Speaker 2>want to know what the arc is?

0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because I'm like, I know, it's like all fun

0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and dandy and like you guys are like at this

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:13.879
<v Speaker 1>fifteen like happy and like.

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:16.399
<v Speaker 2>Fun and we're learning all kinds of new things, especially

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:18.520
<v Speaker 2>like and now I'm public on social media, like that's

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 2>feeling jealousy in a whole different way, and all kinds

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 2>of new issues and communication tactics. Okay, here's the arc.

0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:25.560
<v Speaker 2>If my part, if my husband's going on a date.

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 2>At first, like I'll help him get ready and I'll

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, wear the blue shirt. You look really

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:31.760
<v Speaker 2>good in that one. Like okay, no, no, it's like

0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:33.360
<v Speaker 2>you're like you help him get ready for the date.

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:35.840
<v Speaker 2>And then let's say this is all hypothetical, but all

0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 2>of these things have happened in different different situations. And

0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 2>then let's say he like he texts me like, oh

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 2>the date's going really well. I'm excited. I'm be like yay.

0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:46.040
<v Speaker 2>But then I'll be like, wait, hold on a second.

0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 2>If you're on a date, that means like I'm here

0:28:47.800 --> 0:28:50.160
<v Speaker 2>with the kids and they're freaking out and I am

0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 2>seriously negotiating vegetables while you are on to have a

0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>nice date on a nice date, what the fuck? And

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 2>then he'll message me like, hey, can you FaceTime her

0:28:57.640 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 2>really quick? And I'll be like, Okay, no questions, ask

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 2>no matter what I'm going through, of course I'm going

0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:04.640
<v Speaker 2>to say yes to like a quick FaceTime. You'll do

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the face time, and then in my head I'm like, oh,

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:09.360
<v Speaker 2>is she cuter? Is she prettier? Like it's like, what's happening?

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 2>And then there'll be this thing is like, oh, my

0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:13.320
<v Speaker 2>husband's on a date with a really attractive husband, Like woman,

0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:15.440
<v Speaker 2>go him. And then I'll be like wait a minute.

0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>And then, for whatever reason the date doesn't work out.

0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 2>I'll have this moment of relief, and then I'll be

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:23.480
<v Speaker 2>a little bit annoyed, like I'm sorry, he's amazing. What

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:25.880
<v Speaker 2>the heck were you thinking? Not like continuing a date

0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:29.840
<v Speaker 2>with him? So it's like every emotion you can imagine

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:30.800
<v Speaker 2>will prop.

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Child If you went to your husband and said I

0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 1>don't want to do this anymore. Do you think he

0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:48.840
<v Speaker 1>would stay and not do it?

0:29:49.160 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? Yeah, I think now we've been I think now

0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 2>if I went to him tomorrow and said, hey, I

0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:59.560
<v Speaker 2>want to be monogamous, I think he would say yes. Absolutely.

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 2>He struggles with how public I am right?

0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:06.240
<v Speaker 1>This was my next question, how open is he about

0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:09.320
<v Speaker 1>all of this? With with what you're sharing on social media?

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:11.720
<v Speaker 2>You know. The creating a TikTok was his idea originally

0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:13.320
<v Speaker 2>was because I was like, oh, I'm gonna write a

0:30:13.320 --> 0:30:15.320
<v Speaker 2>blog and share some of these stories. He's like, that's nice, honey,

0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Like here it is, no one's reading a blog and

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.560
<v Speaker 2>make a TikTok. And so the first couple of videos

0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 2>went quite viral, and for the first four months of

0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>the TikTok, he was in a lot of my videos

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 2>and like sharing his perspective as well. And I think

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:34.560
<v Speaker 2>the negativity and the criticism and just the hate comments

0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:38.240
<v Speaker 2>became really overwhelming, and he said to me, like, I

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:40.640
<v Speaker 2>don't want this in my life, Like this is this

0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:43.040
<v Speaker 2>is taking up too much mental load. The comments I

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 2>get are awful and untrue, Like I'd like to not

0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:47.840
<v Speaker 2>be included anymore. I was like, great. So all of

0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:50.480
<v Speaker 2>his all of his videos that he was in are gone.

0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think that he is a much more private

0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:56.480
<v Speaker 2>person than I am, and that's even reflected in our

0:30:56.520 --> 0:31:01.680
<v Speaker 2>agreements and how we communicate with one another. He yeah,

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:03.240
<v Speaker 2>So I think if I went to answer your question,

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:04.520
<v Speaker 2>if I went to him and said, Hey, I want

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 2>to be monogamous, would you be okay with that? He'd

0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 2>say yes. If he came to me and said, oh,

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>I want to be monogamous, I would probably really struggle.

0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I am getting a lot of experiences and fulfillment, you know,

0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>being able to be open and being able to go

0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:24.280
<v Speaker 2>and have these experiences that he doesn't enjoy. And right

0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:26.840
<v Speaker 2>now I feel like I get to live all versions

0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.040
<v Speaker 2>of myself. I get to be a wife, I get

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:31.480
<v Speaker 2>to be a wonderful mother, I get to this incredible partnership,

0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:33.800
<v Speaker 2>and I get to be you know, I'm forty. I'm

0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 2>more confident in my looks and my body, and you

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.640
<v Speaker 2>know how I want to experiment and the things that

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.240
<v Speaker 2>I want to do and going after my own desires

0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 2>than I ever was in my twenties and thirties, and

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:49.120
<v Speaker 2>I would be I would really struggle to let go

0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 2>of that there are plenty of ways that I could

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:56.120
<v Speaker 2>express it with, just like friends and then non sexual

0:31:56.200 --> 0:31:58.720
<v Speaker 2>partners in my life. But it's I feel like I

0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:00.920
<v Speaker 2>don't have limits and I'm really enjoining that at the moment.

0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:04.000
<v Speaker 1>What's better a man or a woman. I've never been

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:04.960
<v Speaker 1>with a woman, so I don't know.

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:09.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think this has to do with gender. I

0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:11.760
<v Speaker 2>think it's just the individuals. I mean, I know that

0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.080
<v Speaker 2>that's such like a cliche answer at this point in time,

0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>but very different, very fun in different ways. I love

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:20.800
<v Speaker 2>having both. I love that I get to experience both.

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to compare. I don't want to have

0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:22.800
<v Speaker 2>to choose one or the other.

0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Do you think if people were if more people followed

0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 1>in the path of an open marriage, there would be

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:31.400
<v Speaker 1>less divorce because of you know, the fact that the

0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:36.640
<v Speaker 1>it's open, open menu for people if they want no.

0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:39.239
<v Speaker 2>I actually don't think so. I would usually recommend an

0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:42.600
<v Speaker 2>open relationship to most people, but I would recommend some

0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>of the mentality. I would recommend them open mentality, and

0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:50.320
<v Speaker 2>I would probably recommend going through the process that most

0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:52.680
<v Speaker 2>people who are in an open relationship have to go to.

0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:54.800
<v Speaker 2>To just about any couple and Like I said at

0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:58.000
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, it's like, define cheating. I think one of

0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the number one recommendations I would give to any couple,

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.760
<v Speaker 2>whether the monogamous or not, define cheating is your partner

0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:05.840
<v Speaker 2>texting someone else? Does that count as cheating? What about

0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 2>watching porn? What about messaging with an ex girlfriend? What

0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:11.600
<v Speaker 2>about spending time with co workers late at night but

0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 2>they don't tell you about it? You know, what about

0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.920
<v Speaker 2>sexy texting with a chat bot? Right? Oh my god,

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:19.360
<v Speaker 2>the fact that that comes up into my DMS all

0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.160
<v Speaker 2>the time right now? Is wild people having open relationships

0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:26.480
<v Speaker 2>with chat bots? That is happening. It's beyond my imagination.

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.880
<v Speaker 2>But like, those are all conversations really worth having, like

0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:32.680
<v Speaker 2>define cheating, And then I think, figure out how to

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 2>have difficult conversations because the number one thing that I

0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:37.640
<v Speaker 2>think you have to do an open relationship is like

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 2>what happens when you are attracted to someone else? What

0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 2>happens when you're jealous? How do you have difficult conversations?

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 2>And usually there's like methods around it. Like my husband

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.240
<v Speaker 2>and I will sit down on a couch across from

0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:52.120
<v Speaker 2>each other and say, like, okay, for the next hour,

0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:55.120
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna have tough conversations and then we're good, and

0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:56.640
<v Speaker 2>then we're gonna go and we're gonna snuggle and have

0:33:56.640 --> 0:33:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a wonderful rest of the night, you know. And so

0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:01.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that's an important thing for all couples to do.

0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 2>And if you're non monogamost, you have to do it.

0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:05.640
<v Speaker 2>You have to figure out how to have those tough conversations.

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:08.759
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting you say, though, that you don't actually recommend it,

0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:11.000
<v Speaker 1>or that you like you wouldn't be like, yeah, you should,

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:13.920
<v Speaker 1>you should try it, given you're so happy in it

0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 1>and fulfilled.

0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've seen the other side of it too often, I.

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Think, which is the people not following the boundaries or

0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:27.200
<v Speaker 1>it the people leaving other people? Like, what is the

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:29.640
<v Speaker 1>part that is the biggest X for this?

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:32.400
<v Speaker 2>You know? It's interesting because you started this off with

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 2>like affairs and cheating.

0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, just no's I think.

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>That I've seen because if you would have talked to

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 2>me four years ago, long before I was on social media,

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I would have said, I do recommend an open relationship

0:34:45.600 --> 0:34:47.520
<v Speaker 2>everyone because of how happy we are and how it's

0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:50.719
<v Speaker 2>how wonderful it's been for us. Since then, I've talked

0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:54.719
<v Speaker 2>to probably a thousand people about opening up their relationship,

0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:59.280
<v Speaker 2>and I've talked to so many people who were hurt

0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:02.839
<v Speaker 2>in the process us because they felt like they were

0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 2>being cheated on even though they had agreed to it.

0:35:05.440 --> 0:35:10.800
<v Speaker 2>But again, it was would I recommend it. I would

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:15.719
<v Speaker 2>recommend it to anyone who who feels like they can

0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:18.080
<v Speaker 2>figure out what it takes in their relationship to have

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:21.160
<v Speaker 2>freedom and commitment at the same time, because I think

0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:24.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot of long term relationships. I don't know about you,

0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:25.799
<v Speaker 2>but like, the one of the things that I love

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:28.680
<v Speaker 2>about my marriage is it's so stable, It's so structured,

0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:32.640
<v Speaker 2>like there's so much deep trust. Our foundation is rock solid.

0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:35.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think because we have that rock solid foundation,

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:39.680
<v Speaker 2>it also means there's not that much mystery, there's not

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:44.120
<v Speaker 2>that much sort of butterflies in your stomach. The romanticism

0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 2>disappears and dissipates after a while. It takes a lot

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:50.480
<v Speaker 2>of effort to have romance once you have a really

0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:53.319
<v Speaker 2>stable environment. I think one of the things in an

0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:55.200
<v Speaker 2>open relationship, kind of going back to the other question

0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of the benefits for me personally, is an open relationship

0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 2>is how we have to say I did to have

0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:06.400
<v Speaker 2>a strong, stable, foundation of a committed, trusting relationship, but

0:36:06.440 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 2>then allow each other to have the mystery and excitement,

0:36:08.760 --> 0:36:12.240
<v Speaker 2>the butterflies, the unknowing and instability outside of our marriage,

0:36:12.719 --> 0:36:14.520
<v Speaker 2>so that we kind of get to have both in

0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>our lives. Yeah, and I think that there are a

0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of ways that a couple can achieve that. Some

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:25.279
<v Speaker 2>couples who are monogamous, it's role play. Other couples it's

0:36:25.320 --> 0:36:28.839
<v Speaker 2>like the one crazy vacation they do a year. There

0:36:28.880 --> 0:36:31.319
<v Speaker 2>are a lot of ways to have that balance of

0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:35.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of stability and structure and mystery and surprise in

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 2>a relationship, and an open relationship isn't the only way

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:41.759
<v Speaker 2>to go about doing so, but it's I think the

0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:44.600
<v Speaker 2>way that has worked the best for us.

0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting too, d Yeah, that you say about

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the you know people saying, well, I said, you know,

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:53.120
<v Speaker 1>he could do it, and then he did it. Now

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.719
<v Speaker 1>it feels like cheating because I think many women might

0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:59.280
<v Speaker 1>fall in line with being like, yeah, no, that sounds great,

0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 1>but when it actually happens, it's it feels like a betrayal.

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I wrote a little bit about this at one point,

0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:08.680
<v Speaker 2>but I when I was opening up a relationship, I

0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 2>got to a point where I was said, Okay, I

0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:13.399
<v Speaker 2>think I'm ninety five percent certain I want to try

0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:15.520
<v Speaker 2>an open relationship, and at that point in time, you

0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:18.480
<v Speaker 2>just have to take the leap and find out. And

0:37:18.480 --> 0:37:21.239
<v Speaker 2>I think that leap can be really scary because you've

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:23.440
<v Speaker 2>had all the conversations, you've figured out all the agreements,

0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:25.760
<v Speaker 2>you know how you're going to communicate, you've defined cheating,

0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:30.319
<v Speaker 2>and then you take the first step, and you never

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:31.920
<v Speaker 2>know how that first step is going to go. It

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:34.080
<v Speaker 2>might feel like cheating. You might have this thing happen

0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:36.000
<v Speaker 2>like and all of a sudden, your entire body is

0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:37.880
<v Speaker 2>telling you this isn't right. I can't do this, I

0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 2>don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, it's okay, that's

0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:43.359
<v Speaker 2>absolutely okay, now you know. And I used to back

0:37:43.400 --> 0:37:46.760
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, okay, this is the really Now monogamy

0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:48.040
<v Speaker 2>is what works for me now I know.

0:37:48.600 --> 0:37:50.080
<v Speaker 1>Right, And I think, like you said, it all comes

0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.160
<v Speaker 1>back to the honesty because I remember one time and

0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:55.239
<v Speaker 1>this might have classified me as an open relationship. I

0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know, but where my ex husband, I said, I

0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:02.239
<v Speaker 1>don't care, like I if you end up cheating on

0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:04.799
<v Speaker 1>me again, like I just need you to tell me.

0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:06.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to divorce you, like, I just need

0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you to be honest because the main thing in the

0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:10.919
<v Speaker 1>end for me was all it was never about the act.

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 1>It was about the lie. Like and that was what

0:38:13.719 --> 0:38:16.520
<v Speaker 1>killed us in the end, was never the act, always

0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:19.440
<v Speaker 1>the lie. And so you know, I think you know

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 1>you're having tough conversations. I'm sorry people because they don't

0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:27.000
<v Speaker 1>agree with your way of living in your marriage. People

0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:30.440
<v Speaker 1>come on and be hateful. I hate that. Again. I

0:38:30.520 --> 0:38:33.600
<v Speaker 1>might not agree with your choices, but I love that

0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 1>you that were able to have a conversation. I think

0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:38.520
<v Speaker 1>that's what's so great about it. And you know, you're

0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:42.080
<v Speaker 1>you're sharing your life and what works for you and

0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:44.839
<v Speaker 1>helping people online. So where can our listeners find you

0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:48.840
<v Speaker 1>and follow along in that journey? And kindness? People be

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:53.040
<v Speaker 1>kind when you follow along because listen, it's like everyone's

0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:55.279
<v Speaker 1>putting our you know, ourselves out there and we don't

0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:57.640
<v Speaker 1>have to agree, but you can still be kind.

0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Definitely you can find me it openly committed. So Nielle

0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:01.560
<v Speaker 2>openly committed.

0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:03.879
<v Speaker 1>Perfect title, too perfect name on.

0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:08.799
<v Speaker 2>There across all channels. Do you mind if I ask

0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:11.680
<v Speaker 2>if of all the things that I just talked about

0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:13.279
<v Speaker 2>and kind of like, what I think it takes to

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:16.239
<v Speaker 2>make an open relationship work? And I have this like

0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:19.000
<v Speaker 2>open mentality. What one of the what's one of the

0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:21.600
<v Speaker 2>things from what I've discussed today that you feel like

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:25.520
<v Speaker 2>would benefit either you or any monogamous couple kind of

0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:27.120
<v Speaker 2>based on what we've discussed.

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:30.640
<v Speaker 1>I think the having that again, that real deep transparency,

0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:33.279
<v Speaker 1>and I think being able to sit down and just

0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:34.960
<v Speaker 1>be like, what do you like? What do you and

0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 1>having that conversation you know, because I don't. I mean,

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:40.799
<v Speaker 1>I guess me and my husband have talked about that,

0:39:40.880 --> 0:39:46.239
<v Speaker 1>but it's it can be an intimate and uncomfortable conversation,

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, and vulnerable. Yeah. So I think, you know,

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.319
<v Speaker 1>just sitting down with the with your partner and just

0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:56.759
<v Speaker 1>having full transparency of what sexually you would like and

0:39:57.120 --> 0:39:59.640
<v Speaker 1>how that can open up your marriage how you both

0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 1>want it to open up.

0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely.

0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:06.200
<v Speaker 1>But I think you're beautiful and wonderful and thank you

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:06.879
<v Speaker 1>for coming on.

0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:08.879
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me. This is very fun.

0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:13.120
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Danielle for your vulnerability and sharing what your unique

0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:15.359
<v Speaker 1>love story has looked like. This has been an eye

0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:19.279
<v Speaker 1>opening conversation. Are you contemplating a non traditional relationship in

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.880
<v Speaker 1>your chapter two. Starting to date and need some advice,

0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 1>call us or email us. All the info is in

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:27.200
<v Speaker 1>the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:29.680
<v Speaker 1>rate and review the podcast. I do part two at

0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:33.279
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio podcast, where falling in love is the main objective