1 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: It's I Do Part two and I'm one of your hosts, 2 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: Jane Kramer. And usually on this podcast we are talking 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: about people that are in their chapter two looking for 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: love again after divorce. But what if the key to 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: not getting divorced is ethical non monogamy. We're going to 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: dive into this today. My guest is documenting her experience 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: with an open marriage through her social media Openly Committed. 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Please welcome Danielle to the podcast. Danielle, thank you so 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: much for coming on I Do Part two. We really 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. And you know, I have to 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: say it's interesting because you know, we've got different hosts 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: for different guests. And when I got sent your rundown, 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is funny. I know why 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: they picked me. I was like cuz I was like 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: this girl was like huge joke. iHeart I like it. 16 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: Why did they pick you? Now? I need to know. 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: Well, so I my last husband very happily married now, 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: but my ex husband was have multiple, multiple multiple affairs 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: in our marriage, and so I have quite an opinion 20 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: when it comes around when it comes to uh cheating. 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: And you know, I've I've spoken to people before that 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: have been in open relationships. And again, I just come 23 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: from a place of I don't know how that works 24 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: when I've been in something. But mine was so different, right, 25 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: because mine was a lot of lying and deceit, and 26 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: it seems like in an open marriage there is more 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: communication around it. 28 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: So there's I have a lot of opinions about cheating too. 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: So okay, great, well let's start there. So let me 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: let me let me hear your opinions on cheating. 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the definition of cheating is 32 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: betrayal and is lying. And I think so often I've 33 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 2: ended up talking to hundreds of people exploring open relationships 34 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: for multiple reasons. And the thing that I've heard from 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 2: people who've been cheated on is they look back on 36 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: the periods of time where they were cheated on and 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: they don't know what part was real and what what 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: part to believe and what was true, And all of 39 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: a sudden they're in a situation where they can't they 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 2: doubt huge chunks of the relationship. And what a terrible, heartbreaking, 41 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: untrusting place to be in. And I'd be curious, you know, 42 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: how you how you felt after kind of going through 43 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: a betrayal, And so I think when when my husband 44 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: brought up the idea of an open relationship, and he 45 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: brought up the idea about two to three months into dating, very. 46 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: Early on, oh before even being married. 47 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we'd been dating for two months when 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: he brought up the idea of exploring an open relationship. 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 2: Neither of us had ever been in an open relationship before. 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: We had no idea what we were doing. This is 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: like twenty ten. You didn't have TikTok influencers and blogs 52 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: about the topic back then, and so it was something 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: that we were going to explore. But his reasoning for 54 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: exploring an open relationship is that he had seen affairs 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: destroy families, destroy people's confidence, and he wanted to affair 56 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: proof our relationship. That was his initial reasoning for bringing 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: up an open relationship in the first place. And so 58 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: I think it can be a wonderful way to have 59 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: transparency and truth in a relationship, but it does not 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: work for everyone, and there are there are cheaters and 61 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: open relationships too. Like being an open relationship is not 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: carte blanche to cheat, We just define cheating differently, and 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: we establish rules and boundaries that have to be equally 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: respected the same way they wouldn't a monogamous relationship. 65 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: For those that haven't followed along with your journey on 66 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: social media, do you discuss the boundaries around an open 67 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: relationship in your marriage? 68 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: I do, yes. So we've had rules that have evolved 69 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: over the years, and I don't think that there's a 70 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: common rule set or agreement subset set that you know, 71 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: every open relationship, every couple follows. They're always different. And 72 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: so I think one of the things that we did, 73 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: what we spent the first two years of our open 74 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: relationship doing, is figuring out like, Okay, what are our rules, 75 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: you know, are how are we going to define our rules? 76 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: How do we define safe sex, how do we for 77 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: each other and eventually with other people? How do we 78 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: have really difficult conversations, you know, how do we define cheating? 79 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 2: I think that that one's really important. And then also 80 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: setting the goals of like what do we eventually want 81 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: this relationship to be? And I think that happens no 82 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: matter what relationship you're in, but you're if you're in 83 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: an open relationship, you really have to have those conversations 84 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: because you're essentially deciding to not follow the set standard 85 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: monogamous guidebook that society and culture and religion have kind 86 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: of set for us. 87 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: Have you seen the movie Splitsville? I haven't got to Johnson. 88 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I really really want to. I definitely need. 89 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: To, Okay, because it is, you know, about having an 90 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: open marriage. So Dakota Johnson's marriage, her husband wanted, you know, 91 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: to have this open marriage. But it's interesting because they 92 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: don't They don't tell the other person that they're having sex. 93 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: They just kind of assume, like when he goes away 94 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: for his work trip in New York, that he's most 95 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: likely with someone. But it created this no I wouldn't 96 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: want to say, well, I guess jealousy, but also this 97 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: insecurity that he's choosing to leave our home to go 98 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: be with someone else. So do those feelings come up 99 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: when your husband wants to go be with somebody else? 100 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: So you're talking to me after I've been doing this 101 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: for fifteen years, So I think that's a pretty big 102 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: difference between you know, our agreements and the way that 103 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: I felt early on in our relationship when we were 104 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 2: new not only to being open, but also like new 105 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: to our relationship. Sure, and you know, we had a 106 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: lot more of those those insecurities and jealousies. I experienced 107 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: a ton of jealousy the first couple of years of 108 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 2: opening up. And now, you know, we've been together for 109 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: fifteen years. We've been open that entire time. I talk 110 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: abouts now as we've had phases. We've had phases of polyamory, 111 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: phases being open, we've had phases of monogamy. You know, 112 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: but we've been together for fifteen years and so we 113 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: you know, are the types of jealousy that I experience 114 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: are very different. I wish I'd seen the movie so 115 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: that I could right. 116 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: But for you, like in the beginning, did it make 117 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: you well? First of all? Like in the very beginning 118 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: when he brought it up, did that make you sad? 119 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: Or was it something where you thought, Okay, I like 120 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: this guy. I'm going to fall in line with what 121 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: he wants to do, because it was or is that 122 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: something that you wanted to do? 123 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: No? I was, I was like, what the fuck? Oh wait, 124 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: I thought I'd met my guy. I thought I'd met 125 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: the one, my prince in shining armor, except you know 126 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: modern times. So we were on a ski slope, right 127 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: and I, you know, I met this guy. We had 128 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: instant chemistry. We had this sort of whirlwind, wonderful, you know, 129 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 2: like rom come worthy first couple of months of dating, 130 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: and then I feel like he you know, I feel 131 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: like this idea exploring an open relationship came out of nowhere. 132 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,679 Speaker 2: And what's so funny is like the words he used 133 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: were probably were probably along the lines of like, Hey, 134 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: I have this idea. It's something I want to explore. 135 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: Would you be open to considering an open relationship. It 136 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: wasn't an ultimatum. It wasn't even a like I want 137 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: to do this. It was let's explore this. And even 138 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: that made me feel angry, pissed off, embarrassed, Like, all 139 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: of a sudden, I tell my friends that this guy 140 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: that I thought was the one now I want to 141 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: explore an open relationship. 142 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: Get to me, that'd be a huge red flag. I'd 143 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: be like, oh, so you just want to cheat on me, 144 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: So then why have you in a relationship? 145 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, But that's where I started to like, that's absolutely 146 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: where I started to I think where I started to 147 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: come around to the idea is that it was something 148 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: that we were just exploring. We spent a year, You're 149 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: just doing research and talking about it, and you know, like, 150 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: what could this look like. And I understood his why, 151 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: which was, like, you know, he wanted to affair proof 152 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: the relationship. That's where it started for him. And at 153 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: that time, I didn't have a why, Like I didn't 154 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: have a very clear why I want to be in 155 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 2: an open relationship. I do now. I'm bisexual. I enjoy 156 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: dating both men and women. I find this incredible level 157 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: of freedom. I feel like my partner enables me to 158 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: have a bigger life than I would if it was, 159 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: you know, just just the two of us. I feel 160 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: like we've created a relationship that's really tailored to us 161 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: and nobody else. And I see, you know this, I 162 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: see this open relationship of ours is now kind of 163 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: more of a mindset than anything else. You know, we're 164 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: we're going to figure things out. We're going to change 165 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 2: as our desires do, as our libidos do, as our 166 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: interest and other people do. Is the things that we 167 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: want to explore do, and our relationship has enough flexibility 168 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 2: to kind of evolve as we do. I couldn't have 169 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: told you that fifteen years ago. I was like, what right? 170 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: Who was he? The first person to step out though? 171 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: And I guess it's not stepping out when you're technically 172 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: signing up for it, but. 173 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: We took baby steps. It's interesting I think seeing open 174 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: relationships portrayed in films and movies and so film and 175 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: TV nowadays, and even on social media, and also so 176 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: many people I've talked to in this process because I 177 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: think people are like, Okay, great, let's explore an open relationship. 178 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: And then it's like they go and have a threesome 179 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: or like they go and like have a relationship with 180 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 2: someone else for a weekend. I was like, wow, it 181 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: feels like you're jumping into a deep end with sharks. 182 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: In our case, we talked about it. I kissed someone, 183 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 2: We talked about it. He kissed someone, We talked about it. 184 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 2: I went on a date and didn't do anything, and 185 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: we talked about it, and then he did, and then 186 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: we talked about it. And we went to a swingers 187 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: club but didn't do anything, and we talked about Then 188 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: we went to swingers club and did a few things, 189 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: then talked about it. You know, there was for us, 190 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: it was definitely a progression and of baby steps where 191 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 2: we were constantly checking in, Okay, how do you feel 192 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: how even little things like he kissed someone? It was like, 193 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: how do I feel about the fact that he kissed someone? 194 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: And I had to actually go through that entire process. 195 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, him kissing someone else doesn't take 196 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: away from him kissing me. He had an experience that 197 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: kind of brought him joy, and how do I feel 198 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: about that? You know? And so I think that with 199 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: taking those baby step per aggressions, we were able to 200 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: kind of tiptoe into is does this make you uncomfortable? Okay? 201 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: Do we want to stop or do we want to 202 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: figure something out? Yeah? I don't recommend for anyone opening 203 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: up a relationship. I don't recommend, you know, immediately going 204 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: off and having another relationship with another person. I feel 205 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: like that's too much, too soon, But it definitely happens, 206 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 2: plenty of people do it. 207 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: How much of your fifteen years has it been monogamous? 208 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: Would you think, Oh, that's a good question, about two 209 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: years in total, maybe two and a half out of 210 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: the fifteen. 211 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: Were those happy years or were those more volatile years? 212 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: Or I'm curious, like what the difference between when you 213 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: were monogamous and when you guys were with other partners? 214 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that so, as I said, fifteen years 215 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: of our relationship there have been. So we had a 216 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: phase of monogamy when my son was born, because I 217 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: don't know if you're a parent or your parent. 218 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: Yes, I've got three kids. We've got three kids and 219 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: a step son. 220 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: So you probably know that when your kids are young, 221 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: you don't have enough time to like sleep or date 222 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: each other. 223 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm exhausted exactly. 224 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, I I'm if I can get dinner 225 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: on a table like half the nights of the week. 226 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: So that phase of monogamy I think was just kind 227 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: of natural. You know. There was all We're so excited 228 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: to be parents. We wanted to spend so much time together, 229 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: so much time with our son, and I think we 230 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: kind of woke up one day and we're like, oh, 231 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: we've been monogamous for a year. Cool, that was it. 232 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: It was not a big deal. 233 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm astericking real fast, so I don't forget. 234 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: How do you what do you tell how old your kid? 235 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: Our son is eleven, my daughter elevens sweet? 236 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: Sweet? So when they're older, is this something that you 237 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: guys are going to tell them? Because obviously your stuff 238 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: is on social media, so they're going to be watching 239 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: social media. So is it something that I mean, have 240 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: you talked to them about it? Or are you going 241 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: to or what are you going to say? And then 242 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: what are you I guess modeling then for what a 243 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: marriage looks like and for their values and opinions around 244 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: it all. 245 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, so my son already knows. We told him about 246 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: a year and a bit ago. It was. I mean, 247 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: it was a pretty easy casual conversation at that time. 248 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: And I think I think there's a couple of things. So, 249 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: first of all, my children know better than anyone else 250 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 2: how much my husband and I love each other. They 251 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 2: see it every day and they're raised in the household 252 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: with it every day, and they do not see us 253 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: dating other people. And it sounds like you're divorced. 254 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm married now. Oh, you're married now, but you asked 255 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: to a lovely man, Yes, the man that cheated. I 256 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: do have two kids with and then one with the new. 257 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 2: How long did it take you to introduce your new 258 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: partner to your existing kids? 259 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: Oh? Man, let's see oct I met in October, November, December, January. 260 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: But three and a half months. 261 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 2: Oh, interesting, we actually waited. We wait longer than that. Yeah, 262 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: So if we're in serious relationships with someone else, which 263 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: has only happened twice in our fifteen years. 264 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: Oh, so you introduce them to people that you're with. 265 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: We've introduced them as friends of friends. 266 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: We got it, got it in using But. 267 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: I mean, it takes a long time to introduce someone 268 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: that's an important part of your life to your children. 269 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: And it took us, you know, we waited I think 270 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: five and then six months to introduce anyone to our kids. 271 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 2: But when we told our son, and we told him like, 272 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 2: Mom and we love each other very much, we're in 273 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: an open relationship. What we have other people we really 274 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: care about. We have other people that we have feelings for, 275 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: and one of them you've met. And so then we 276 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: were able to say, like this person who you've met 277 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: in the past, who was introduced as a friend of 278 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: the family, you know you had a great experience with 279 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: that person, Like that's someone that mom and didn't care 280 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: about as well. So I think it's we're pretty Oh 281 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: it's funny. These feel like such hard conversations to have 282 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: without a lot of content, without the entire context. But 283 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: I think that when we tell our son what we're 284 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: modeling to answer your question, like what do we model 285 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: for our kids. We're very careful with what we tell 286 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: them and when. What we're telling our son when he's ten, 287 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: when he was ten, which is when we told him, 288 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: will be a little bit different than the conversations we 289 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: have with him when he's eighteen. Right when we introduce 290 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: our children to people that we were dating, which again 291 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: has only happened twice as a friend of a family member, 292 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: because honestly, it's kind of true. It's true. It's someone 293 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: like we care about, it's someone we would love to 294 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 2: introduce to our children. But we're careful how we do that. 295 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: The way that we talk to our children is about 296 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: love and about relationships and about caring for people. We're 297 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: not talking to our children about sex. We don't talk 298 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: to about our children about our sex lives. It's not 299 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: like we're going to talk to them about like sex 300 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: lives with other people. Well, it's crazy, and I think 301 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: that long term, the thing that I hope to model 302 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: for my kids is that you know, we're in a 303 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: relationship that works for us that took us a long 304 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: time to figure out, that we constantly support each other 305 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: through all these huge changes, and we're also kind of 306 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: living pretty authentically and we figured out a relationship that 307 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: allows us to do so. And I'm hoping that by 308 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: living this authentically and like, by by creating the relationship 309 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 2: that works for me, my kids will not only feel 310 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: like they have permission to do so themselves, but they'll 311 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: see it. They'll see that, oh, mom and dad did it. 312 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: I can definitely do this too, no matter what that 313 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: looks like for my kids. 314 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: Okay, So what happens if you so these people that 315 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: you have introduced your kids to obviously were someone that 316 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: was they you said you were dating. What happens if 317 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: you really catch feelings and you want to be with 318 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: just them? 319 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: I guess we'll figure it out. 320 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: Is that something you guys have talked about or we. 321 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: Have definitely talked about. It's only once where my husband 322 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: was dating someone and we had the conversations like what 323 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: if she lived with us? Like, okay, how would that 324 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: look like? But it wasn't something she was interested in 325 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: and could it happen? Yeah? But I guess there's also 326 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: this thing, is like, if either of us fell in 327 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: love with someone else and loved that person more than 328 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: each other, would we go and be monogamous with that person? 329 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: Probably not? I mean, we're in an open relationship. We've been. 330 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: I know that people use the terms open relationship and polyamory. 331 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: I tend to use them interchangeably. But if I was 332 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: feeling if I was polyamorous, So if I was in 333 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: a romantic, committed relationship with someone else as well as 334 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: a romantic committed relationship with my husband, we would figure 335 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: out how that works. It's hard for me to imagine 336 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: leaving this incredible life that I've built with my husband 337 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: and our kids and our family for someone else, given 338 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: the fact that, for lack of a better word, I 339 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: get to have both. 340 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: Right. But here's my question, though, I guess, and I'm 341 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: sure you hear this all the time too, is why 342 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: be married at all? Then? 343 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: I want it to be, But. 344 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: You're not with that just that person marriage is if 345 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: you I mean, I guess, let's I don't know the 346 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: actual definition is, but to me, it's the married to 347 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: one person, and you're I don't know, I mean, maybe 348 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: that's the old school mentality with it, where it's like, 349 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,719 Speaker 1: I guess you're changing with the typical old school version 350 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: of what a marriage is. 351 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is what we're doing, and I 352 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 2: think you're seeing it. I think you're seeing it more 353 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: and more nowadays. You're seeing a lot of people who, 354 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 2: you know, feel like their gender is very fluid, their 355 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 2: sexuality is very fluid. And so for someone who is 356 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: expressing you know, bisexuality, pan sexuality and feels like they're 357 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: you know, their generous fluid or they then also expected 358 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: to only be in a monogamous married relationship as their goal. 359 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 2: You know, I think that the constructs and the goals 360 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: of relationships are going to look very different ten years 361 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: from now for this upcoming generation. I think that I 362 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I'm forty one, so I 363 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: feel like I'm sort of in that in between phase 364 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 2: between you know, my parents' generation and their definition of 365 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 2: what a really great marriage looks like and what the 366 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 2: next generation is going to look like. And I guess 367 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: I guess an to flip it on, to turn this 368 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: on its head. Do you think that a marriage is 369 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: more than sexual exclusivity? 370 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: Do I think a marriage is more than sexual exclusivity? 371 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 2: Do you think that sexual exclusivity is the most important 372 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: thing to marry. 373 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: In a marriage? Yeah? Interesting, Okay, I do, But again 374 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: that's my how I was. I guess brought up thinking that, 375 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: I mean, my parents, it's got divorced because my dad cheated. 376 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, So what is marriage a man and a 377 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: woman staying faithfully together. I guess that's my yeah, and 378 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: then just to get the old school values around it all. 379 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: But again, I've messed up many times where I'm not 380 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: messed up, but I've I've had had multiple marriages because 381 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, I've been trying to find that marriage that 382 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: I ideal, that I dreamt of as a as a 383 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: gal girl. Right, So I've married the wrong people in 384 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: that quest, but I do I personally could never open 385 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: up a marriage, and I love having conversations with people, 386 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: you know that have different differing views and opinions, and 387 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: I see how it can work for other people. I personally, 388 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: going through what I've been through with my ex, I 389 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: don't see a world where, you know, Even Alan and 390 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: I joked when we were in the car after watching 391 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: splits Pille and I'm like, I don't mean to be 392 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: closed off around it. I was like, but if you 393 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: ever came to me with that, there's just no way 394 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: in hell I would be okay with it, like ever. 395 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: And he's like, He's like, same, you know, but you know, 396 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: I do think there were some people that can work. 397 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: And what are you know, for you guys, how has 398 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: it made you guys stronger in your marriage having this 399 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: open relationship? 400 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: So I would say that right now you're seeing in 401 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 2: the US, I think it's four to five percent of 402 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: the US population rec is consensually non monogamous, So it 403 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 2: means that like ninety five percent of the population is monogamous. Like, 404 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: monogamy is what works for most people, and I think 405 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: so to your question was like, kind of what makes 406 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: it work for us? 407 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, how how has it strengthened your marriage? You know, 408 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: like what is what is the positive you know in it? 409 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 2: I think the positive for us is I mean, I 410 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 2: will say the level of transparency, you know, And I 411 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: think that the kind of going back to the betrayal, 412 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 2: right when I when my husband brought the idea and said, 413 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: let's a fair proof the relationship, one of the biggest 414 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 2: conversations that we had was like complete transparency and how 415 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: important that was to us. And I think even if 416 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: we decided to be monogamous, like even if we'd gone 417 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 2: through this whole process of exploring an open relationship and 418 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: then a couple of years in decide, you know what 419 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: we want to be in monigamous, which is absolutely an 420 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: option on the table. I think that we would have 421 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: really learned a couple of things about our relationship anyway, 422 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: which is how important transparency is. It's like, I do 423 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: I want to know if you're attracted to someone, if 424 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 2: you're hanging out with friends, Like I want to like 425 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: have that level of detail because I care about you. 426 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: Well, it's a level of deep honesty too, and like 427 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: really knowing your partner because there's so many closeted people. 428 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about their preferences, but when it 429 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: comes to them not knowing what their fetishes are or 430 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: they're you know what I mean, because they're too afraid 431 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: to say anything exactly or be judged or yeah. 432 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 2: I mean this is that again. Kind of going on 433 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: that note, you know, I think in my mid thirties 434 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 2: there were things that I wanted to try sexually, and 435 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: because we have this level of transparency, it was really 436 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: easy for me to go to my partner be like, 437 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 2: so I have an idea. 438 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, I could say how that'd be so liberating 439 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: and open and free and then being so connected because deep, 440 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: true transparency and honesty is the most connective thing for couples. 441 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I feel like that at its foundation has 442 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: nothing to do with the relationship style. Monogamous not monagamous, 443 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. I feel like I get to go to 444 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: my partner and say there's something I want to try. 445 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: I'm feeling this, I feel you know, I desire this. 446 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: I'm not feeling desirable. I want to try this thing 447 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 2: that's new. I want to be pushed outside of my 448 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: comfort zone. And I think the difference with my partner 449 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 2: and I is most of those things, like we will 450 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: kind of figure out together, but there is this element 451 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: which is like, okay, Danielle, Like, if I wanted to 452 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: try something that my husband doesn't necessarily want to or 453 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 2: doesn't enjoy, then I have an opportunity to go and 454 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: explore that and experience that with someone else, and it 455 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 2: could be a friend. Right. I'm a big outdoor enthusiast, 456 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: a ski I love hiking. My husband does not. My 457 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: husband needs a goal. He's like, oh, we're hiking. We're 458 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: hiking from point A to point B. And I'm like, no, 459 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: it's about flowers and the views and like experience. He's like, no, 460 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: it'd be and so I get to have those experiences, yes, 461 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: with my friends who will do all these things with me, 462 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: but also I think some other in some other ways, 463 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: you know, especially from you'd mentioned kind of like kinks 464 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: and getting to explore things outside of your comfort zone. 465 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: I get to do that. I get to I kind 466 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 2: of have all of the options available to me, including 467 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: the options that my husband might necessarily not be interested in. 468 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: For sure. I have a question when you are exploring 469 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: or want to explore something, do you I don't know, 470 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: is there apps for this or do you? And then 471 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: when when you do meet someone, do you say I 472 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: am married? Like you have to go through all that 473 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 1: right obviously that's probably a boundary for your husband. 474 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 2: Oh yes, So total transparency on my dating profiles, I 475 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: say I'm married, I'm not monogamous with two kids. And interestingly, 476 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 2: I think because dating apps have changed so much that 477 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: you do have dating apps that are dedicated to the 478 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: non monogamous, polyamorous spaces now feel hashtag open. I believe 479 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: even some of the other more standard ones have you know, 480 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 2: have drop downs now where you can select interested in 481 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 2: being open, nominogamous, et cetera. So I think that that's 482 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 2: probably right now, the easiest way to kind of to 483 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: find people that you're interested in dating. I also kind 484 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 2: of meet a lot of people in real life. I 485 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: think one of the things that the thing about being 486 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: in an open relationship, I am not always dating. I 487 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: think that there's this perception because I'm an oship, Oh 488 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: my god, I must be having sex with everybody. 489 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: I was like, No, such a good point. 490 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 2: I still have enough like years and toast account everybody, Like, seriously, guys, 491 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: it's not that crazy and so and I think, what's 492 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 2: but I think what's interesting is that if I do 493 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: meet someone, I have a connection, there's no limit to 494 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 2: what that connection could be. You know. It could be 495 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 2: it could be a just really intimate friendship. It could 496 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: be a friend with benefits. It could be a comment, 497 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 2: it could be a one night stand, it could be 498 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: something that evolves into a deeper relationship. It's like, I'm 499 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: very rarely just like on a mission to date and 500 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 2: find someone. That's almost never happened. It's much more that 501 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: I get to live life, and then the people that 502 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: kind of come into my life, I get to say, like, oh, 503 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: is this friends or is this you know, the entire 504 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 2: rainbow of other options that are actually available bull to 505 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 2: me because of my open relationship style. 506 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, you have a okay question? Because this 507 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: has happened. I know how this has happened to someone before. 508 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: But someone had told a girlfriend of mine that they 509 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: were in an open marriage, but come to find out 510 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: they were not an open marriage, and that was just 511 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: what he was saying. So and that's called cheating. Yeah. 512 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: Have you run into that where people are on these 513 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: sites and they're saying they're in the open marriage, but really, 514 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: like you come to find out that this like the 515 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: wife or the husband is actually not okay with it. 516 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: I hate that this happens, and it happens so for 517 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 2: anyone listening. So I'm openly committed. Up on social channels, 518 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 2: I talk about my experiences, stories, recommendations for anyone exploring 519 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 2: non monogamy. And I think that this one is a 520 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 2: huge pet peeve of mine because I think that it 521 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 2: really it doesn't endjusice to most people who are in 522 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: an open relationship. It's I think it's one of the 523 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: things because in open relationships and polyamory are trending. It's 524 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 2: become something that people can say more easily when they're 525 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: just cheating, and I hate that that's the case. It 526 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: has happened to me twice where you know, would be like, oh, 527 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: this is really really interesting. But I think when you've 528 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: been in an open relationship for a long time, you 529 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 2: can start to ask questions and then the red flags 530 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 2: go up. So I will always ask someone like, hey, like, 531 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 2: what are your boundaries? You know, what are the things 532 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: that are discussed in your existing relationship? What are the 533 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: agreements that you have with your partner? And the simple 534 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 2: question is like, does your partner or you're on a 535 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: date with me right now. I have dated people who 536 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: have what's called a don't ask, don't tell policy in 537 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 2: their relationship, and you just you just ask a couple 538 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 2: more questions. And I have requested to like FaceTime or 539 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 2: text message a partner before. But honestly, if I'm getting 540 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 2: a spider sense that this person's not really open, I'm 541 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 2: not going there. I'm not interested. And I think on 542 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: the flip side of it, my husband has been on 543 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: dates with women before and they ask to FaceTime me. 544 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: And what is that like? Like? Truthfully, like you're like, hey, Carl, 545 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: like what We're like, Yeah, like what there isn't like 546 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: a percentage I know, the fifteen year. But okay, so 547 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: now let's say at the fifteen year, there isn't like 548 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: a little piece that's one percent little jealous. 549 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: Oh oh, of course there is. No. Here's the You 550 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 2: want to know what the arc is? 551 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm like, I know, it's like all fun 552 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: and dandy and like you guys are like at this 553 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: fifteen like happy and like. 554 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 2: Fun and we're learning all kinds of new things, especially 555 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: like and now I'm public on social media, like that's 556 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 2: feeling jealousy in a whole different way, and all kinds 557 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: of new issues and communication tactics. Okay, here's the arc. 558 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: If my part, if my husband's going on a date. 559 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 2: At first, like I'll help him get ready and I'll 560 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: be like, oh, wear the blue shirt. You look really 561 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: good in that one. Like okay, no, no, it's like 562 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 2: you're like you help him get ready for the date. 563 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: And then let's say this is all hypothetical, but all 564 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: of these things have happened in different different situations. And 565 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: then let's say he like he texts me like, oh 566 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: the date's going really well. I'm excited. I'm be like yay. 567 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: But then I'll be like, wait, hold on a second. 568 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: If you're on a date, that means like I'm here 569 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: with the kids and they're freaking out and I am 570 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: seriously negotiating vegetables while you are on to have a 571 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: nice date on a nice date, what the fuck? And 572 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: then he'll message me like, hey, can you FaceTime her 573 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: really quick? And I'll be like, Okay, no questions, ask 574 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: no matter what I'm going through, of course I'm going 575 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: to say yes to like a quick FaceTime. You'll do 576 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: the face time, and then in my head I'm like, oh, 577 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 2: is she cuter? Is she prettier? Like it's like, what's happening? 578 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: And then there'll be this thing is like, oh, my 579 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: husband's on a date with a really attractive husband, Like woman, 580 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: go him. And then I'll be like wait a minute. 581 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: And then, for whatever reason the date doesn't work out. 582 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: I'll have this moment of relief, and then I'll be 583 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: a little bit annoyed, like I'm sorry, he's amazing. What 584 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: the heck were you thinking? Not like continuing a date 585 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: with him? So it's like every emotion you can imagine 586 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: will prop. 587 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Child If you went to your husband and said I 588 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: don't want to do this anymore. Do you think he 589 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: would stay and not do it? 590 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I think now we've been I think now 591 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 2: if I went to him tomorrow and said, hey, I 592 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: want to be monogamous, I think he would say yes. Absolutely. 593 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: He struggles with how public I am right? 594 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: This was my next question, how open is he about 595 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: all of this? With with what you're sharing on social media? 596 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: You know. The creating a TikTok was his idea originally 597 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 2: was because I was like, oh, I'm gonna write a 598 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: blog and share some of these stories. He's like, that's nice, honey, 599 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: Like here it is, no one's reading a blog and 600 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: make a TikTok. And so the first couple of videos 601 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: went quite viral, and for the first four months of 602 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 2: the TikTok, he was in a lot of my videos 603 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 2: and like sharing his perspective as well. And I think 604 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: the negativity and the criticism and just the hate comments 605 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: became really overwhelming, and he said to me, like, I 606 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 2: don't want this in my life, Like this is this 607 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: is taking up too much mental load. The comments I 608 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 2: get are awful and untrue, Like I'd like to not 609 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 2: be included anymore. I was like, great. So all of 610 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 2: his all of his videos that he was in are gone. 611 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 2: And I think that he is a much more private 612 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: person than I am, and that's even reflected in our 613 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 2: agreements and how we communicate with one another. He yeah, 614 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: So I think if I went to answer your question, 615 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: if I went to him and said, Hey, I want 616 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: to be monogamous, would you be okay with that? He'd 617 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: say yes. If he came to me and said, oh, 618 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: I want to be monogamous, I would probably really struggle. 619 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 2: I am getting a lot of experiences and fulfillment, you know, 620 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: being able to be open and being able to go 621 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: and have these experiences that he doesn't enjoy. And right 622 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: now I feel like I get to live all versions 623 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: of myself. I get to be a wife, I get 624 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: to be a wonderful mother, I get to this incredible partnership, 625 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: and I get to be you know, I'm forty. I'm 626 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: more confident in my looks and my body, and you 627 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: know how I want to experiment and the things that 628 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: I want to do and going after my own desires 629 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: than I ever was in my twenties and thirties, and 630 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 2: I would be I would really struggle to let go 631 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: of that there are plenty of ways that I could 632 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: express it with, just like friends and then non sexual 633 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 2: partners in my life. But it's I feel like I 634 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: don't have limits and I'm really enjoining that at the moment. 635 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: What's better a man or a woman. I've never been 636 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: with a woman, so I don't know. 637 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 2: I don't think this has to do with gender. I 638 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: think it's just the individuals. I mean, I know that 639 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: that's such like a cliche answer at this point in time, 640 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 2: but very different, very fun in different ways. I love 641 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: having both. I love that I get to experience both. 642 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 2: I don't want to compare. I don't want to have 643 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: to choose one or the other. 644 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: Do you think if people were if more people followed 645 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: in the path of an open marriage, there would be 646 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: less divorce because of you know, the fact that the 647 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: it's open, open menu for people if they want no. 648 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,239 Speaker 2: I actually don't think so. I would usually recommend an 649 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 2: open relationship to most people, but I would recommend some 650 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: of the mentality. I would recommend them open mentality, and 651 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: I would probably recommend going through the process that most 652 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 2: people who are in an open relationship have to go to. 653 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: To just about any couple and Like I said at 654 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 2: the beginning, it's like, define cheating. I think one of 655 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 2: the number one recommendations I would give to any couple, 656 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: whether the monogamous or not, define cheating is your partner 657 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 2: texting someone else? Does that count as cheating? What about 658 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 2: watching porn? What about messaging with an ex girlfriend? What 659 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: about spending time with co workers late at night but 660 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: they don't tell you about it? You know, what about 661 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: sexy texting with a chat bot? Right? Oh my god, 662 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 2: the fact that that comes up into my DMS all 663 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: the time right now? Is wild people having open relationships 664 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: with chat bots? That is happening. It's beyond my imagination. 665 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: But like, those are all conversations really worth having, like 666 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: define cheating, And then I think, figure out how to 667 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 2: have difficult conversations because the number one thing that I 668 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: think you have to do an open relationship is like 669 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: what happens when you are attracted to someone else? What 670 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 2: happens when you're jealous? How do you have difficult conversations? 671 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 2: And usually there's like methods around it. Like my husband 672 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 2: and I will sit down on a couch across from 673 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 2: each other and say, like, okay, for the next hour, 674 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: we're gonna have tough conversations and then we're good, and 675 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: then we're gonna go and we're gonna snuggle and have 676 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: a wonderful rest of the night, you know. And so 677 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: I think that's an important thing for all couples to do. 678 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 2: And if you're non monogamost, you have to do it. 679 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 2: You have to figure out how to have those tough conversations. 680 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: It's interesting you say, though, that you don't actually recommend it, 681 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: or that you like you wouldn't be like, yeah, you should, 682 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: you should try it, given you're so happy in it 683 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: and fulfilled. 684 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen the other side of it too often, I. 685 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: Think, which is the people not following the boundaries or 686 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: it the people leaving other people? Like, what is the 687 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: part that is the biggest X for this? 688 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 2: You know? It's interesting because you started this off with 689 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: like affairs and cheating. 690 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: Sorry, just no's I think. 691 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: That I've seen because if you would have talked to 692 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: me four years ago, long before I was on social media, 693 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 2: I would have said, I do recommend an open relationship 694 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 2: everyone because of how happy we are and how it's 695 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 2: how wonderful it's been for us. Since then, I've talked 696 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 2: to probably a thousand people about opening up their relationship, 697 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 2: and I've talked to so many people who were hurt 698 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 2: in the process us because they felt like they were 699 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 2: being cheated on even though they had agreed to it. 700 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 2: But again, it was would I recommend it. I would 701 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 2: recommend it to anyone who who feels like they can 702 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 2: figure out what it takes in their relationship to have 703 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: freedom and commitment at the same time, because I think 704 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 2: a lot of long term relationships. I don't know about you, 705 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 2: but like, the one of the things that I love 706 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: about my marriage is it's so stable, It's so structured, 707 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: like there's so much deep trust. Our foundation is rock solid. 708 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: And I think because we have that rock solid foundation, 709 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 2: it also means there's not that much mystery, there's not 710 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: that much sort of butterflies in your stomach. The romanticism 711 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 2: disappears and dissipates after a while. It takes a lot 712 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 2: of effort to have romance once you have a really 713 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 2: stable environment. I think one of the things in an 714 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 2: open relationship, kind of going back to the other question 715 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 2: of the benefits for me personally, is an open relationship 716 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: is how we have to say I did to have 717 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 2: a strong, stable, foundation of a committed, trusting relationship, but 718 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 2: then allow each other to have the mystery and excitement, 719 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 2: the butterflies, the unknowing and instability outside of our marriage, 720 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: so that we kind of get to have both in 721 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: our lives. Yeah, and I think that there are a 722 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: lot of ways that a couple can achieve that. Some 723 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 2: couples who are monogamous, it's role play. Other couples it's 724 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 2: like the one crazy vacation they do a year. There 725 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 2: are a lot of ways to have that balance of 726 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 2: kind of stability and structure and mystery and surprise in 727 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: a relationship, and an open relationship isn't the only way 728 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 2: to go about doing so, but it's I think the 729 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 2: way that has worked the best for us. 730 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting too, d Yeah, that you say about 731 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: the you know people saying, well, I said, you know, 732 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: he could do it, and then he did it. Now 733 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: it feels like cheating because I think many women might 734 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 1: fall in line with being like, yeah, no, that sounds great, 735 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: but when it actually happens, it's it feels like a betrayal. 736 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I wrote a little bit about this at one point, 737 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 2: but I when I was opening up a relationship, I 738 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: got to a point where I was said, Okay, I 739 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 2: think I'm ninety five percent certain I want to try 740 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 2: an open relationship, and at that point in time, you 741 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 2: just have to take the leap and find out. And 742 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 2: I think that leap can be really scary because you've 743 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 2: had all the conversations, you've figured out all the agreements, 744 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 2: you know how you're going to communicate, you've defined cheating, 745 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 2: and then you take the first step, and you never 746 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 2: know how that first step is going to go. It 747 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 2: might feel like cheating. You might have this thing happen 748 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: like and all of a sudden, your entire body is 749 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 2: telling you this isn't right. I can't do this, I 750 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 2: don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, it's okay, that's 751 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 2: absolutely okay, now you know. And I used to back 752 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, this is the really Now monogamy 753 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 2: is what works for me now I know. 754 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: Right, And I think, like you said, it all comes 755 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: back to the honesty because I remember one time and 756 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: this might have classified me as an open relationship. I 757 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: don't know, but where my ex husband, I said, I 758 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: don't care, like I if you end up cheating on 759 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: me again, like I just need you to tell me. 760 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: I'm not going to divorce you, like, I just need 761 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: you to be honest because the main thing in the 762 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,919 Speaker 1: end for me was all it was never about the act. 763 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: It was about the lie. Like and that was what 764 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: killed us in the end, was never the act, always 765 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: the lie. And so you know, I think you know 766 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: you're having tough conversations. I'm sorry people because they don't 767 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: agree with your way of living in your marriage. People 768 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: come on and be hateful. I hate that. Again. I 769 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: might not agree with your choices, but I love that 770 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: you that were able to have a conversation. I think 771 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: that's what's so great about it. And you know, you're 772 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: you're sharing your life and what works for you and 773 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: helping people online. So where can our listeners find you 774 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: and follow along in that journey? And kindness? People be 775 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: kind when you follow along because listen, it's like everyone's 776 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: putting our you know, ourselves out there and we don't 777 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: have to agree, but you can still be kind. 778 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 2: Definitely you can find me it openly committed. So Nielle 779 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 2: openly committed. 780 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: Perfect title, too perfect name on. 781 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 2: There across all channels. Do you mind if I ask 782 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: if of all the things that I just talked about 783 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 2: and kind of like, what I think it takes to 784 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 2: make an open relationship work? And I have this like 785 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 2: open mentality. What one of the what's one of the 786 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 2: things from what I've discussed today that you feel like 787 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 2: would benefit either you or any monogamous couple kind of 788 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: based on what we've discussed. 789 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: I think the having that again, that real deep transparency, 790 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: and I think being able to sit down and just 791 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: be like, what do you like? What do you and 792 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: having that conversation you know, because I don't. I mean, 793 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: I guess me and my husband have talked about that, 794 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: but it's it can be an intimate and uncomfortable conversation, 795 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: you know, and vulnerable. Yeah. So I think, you know, 796 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: just sitting down with the with your partner and just 797 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: having full transparency of what sexually you would like and 798 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: how that can open up your marriage how you both 799 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: want it to open up. 800 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. 801 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: But I think you're beautiful and wonderful and thank you 802 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 1: for coming on. 803 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This is very fun. 804 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: Thanks Danielle for your vulnerability and sharing what your unique 805 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: love story has looked like. This has been an eye 806 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: opening conversation. Are you contemplating a non traditional relationship in 807 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: your chapter two. Starting to date and need some advice, 808 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: call us or email us. All the info is in 809 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to 810 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: rate and review the podcast. I do part two at 811 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio podcast, where falling in love is the main objective