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Speaker 1: Hi, how are you good?

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Speaker 2: How's it gone?

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Speaker 1: It's going?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 1: Do you mind if I asked how old you are?

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Speaker 2: Thirty two?

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Speaker 1: You're thirty two? Okay, So.

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Speaker 3: People, I wondered if people that are listening in my

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Speaker 3: fans will be like, wait, why would you have that

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Speaker 3: guy on? You know, like I'm about female empowerment and

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Speaker 3: a lot of women listen and moms, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I have a responsibility to them. And I was thinking

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Speaker 3: as I was walking that you have an intriguing story,

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Speaker 3: even if it's a cautionary tale for someone who could

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Speaker 3: end up being smarter by realizing some of the things

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Speaker 3: that you were accused of or you know. Also, I

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Speaker 3: believe in like letting someone come here and tell their

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Speaker 3: story and not like setting up a trap like I've

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Speaker 3: been on shows where I walk in and they act

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Speaker 3: like they're excited to have me, and then I come

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Speaker 3: on and then they're like, just like it's a booby

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Speaker 3: trap and it's just to make me look like, look,

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Speaker 3: you know, bad, And it's just not either of those things.

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Speaker 1: You're a guest.

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Speaker 3: I respect that, but I want you to be really

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Speaker 3: honest and I want us to really get into this

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Speaker 3: because I think it's an interesting story.

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Speaker 1: So are you cool with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Love, how straight to the point you are. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for having me, So let's have some fun and see

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Speaker 2: what we can do.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So you're thirty two, are you close with your parents?

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Speaker 2: Kind of grew up in New Jersey outside the city,

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Speaker 2: but lived in New York since I was eighteen, except

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Speaker 2: for my four year jail vacation.

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Speaker 1: So you had a jail vacation. Where was that all over?

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Speaker 2: I kept getting in trouble, but mostly outside of Detroit, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: so a little bit of ways away from New York.

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Speaker 1: So were you a kid that was always getting in trouble?

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Speaker 3: Like at school we always sort of like getting disciplined

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Speaker 3: and sent to the principal.

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Speaker 2: Always an entrepreneur. I started my first business in seventh

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Speaker 2: grade and had three full time employees and got in

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Speaker 2: trouble when one of them sent me an invitation for

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Speaker 2: his wedding, and my parents like, why is this grown man?

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Speaker 2: Because see him get married?

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Speaker 3: So I think, go, oh wow, okay, And were you

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Speaker 3: did you come from a wealthy family.

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Speaker 2: Like middle middle upper class like New Jersey suburbs, So.

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Speaker 3: Again you didn't want for anything, but like you weren't rich, right,

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Speaker 3: Your parents, parents weren't driving ferraris.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't crazy, got it?

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Speaker 1: Okay? But you went on vacations. You had a decent,

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Speaker 1: normal child for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So try to obviously push the boundaries a little

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Speaker 2: bit myself.

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Speaker 1: Past that, right? And so where did you go to

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Speaker 1: Did you go to college?

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Speaker 2: I went to a school called Bucknell for almost one year.

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Speaker 2: During my freshman year of college, I became one of

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Speaker 2: the youngest people to raise venture capital. So left college

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Speaker 2: to embark in that tech venture journey and moved to

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Speaker 2: New York trying to make that happen.

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Speaker 3: You were you you knew what VC was? In college?

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Speaker 3: You were reading about this stuff. How did you know

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Speaker 3: about all this stuff?

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Speaker 2: There was an alumni day and someone told me the

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Speaker 2: word venture capital. And I recently found my notebook from

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Speaker 2: that day, right right, venture capital question mark. So started

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Speaker 2: researching it and trying to figure out what it was

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Speaker 2: and trying to understand who these people were that would

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Speaker 2: back eighteen years like me to kind of give us

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Speaker 2: a chance to build her own business on a much

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Speaker 2: larger scale than I was doing for my bedroom as

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Speaker 2: a kid.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, and we'll get into it. But like I

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Speaker 3: think about I remember being at a party at Jordan

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Speaker 3: Balfar's house in the Hampton's years ago, and now he's

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Speaker 3: like famous going out and talking, which to me is

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Speaker 3: like I'm mixed about it, because he is smart and

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Speaker 3: he probably could have made money doing anything. But now

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Speaker 3: it's this person who's a criminal who's out there talking

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Speaker 3: and like speaking and getting you know, news events, I

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Speaker 3: mean news shows. And so I think about the fact

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Speaker 3: that it sounds like you were smart, you were motivated,

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Speaker 3: You're an entrepreneur. You could have like gone one way,

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Speaker 3: and it sounds like you went another. So your parents

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Speaker 3: pay for your college for a year, and then you're out,

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Speaker 3: and then what are you doing then? And where are

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Speaker 3: you living and how are you supporting yourself?

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Speaker 2: So raised money for this, tried to build a social

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Speaker 2: networking website for my college drum Room. Raised money for

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Speaker 2: this social networking app, and moved to New York City

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Speaker 2: and was eighteen nineteen. My friends were now sophomores in college,

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Speaker 2: kind of all alone, and I, you know, snuck into

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Speaker 2: a nightclub one night and saw you there. I thought

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Speaker 2: I was the coolest person in the world, and obviously

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Speaker 2: say hi, because it's the same time there. Yeah, nice club.

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Speaker 2: It was PhD when it first opened at the Dream Hotel.

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Speaker 2: So funny. How yeah, how fast?

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Speaker 3: So I remember going there and I've only ever been

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Speaker 3: there once. That was the one up on the roof.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was like New Year's Year and

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Speaker 2: you were with your then husband at the time, and

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Speaker 2: being a nineteen year old and all my friends were

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Speaker 2: in college, I thought I was the man, because that's

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Speaker 2: really weird.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I almost remember that. It was like

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Speaker 3: towards the back and you were with your friends. There

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Speaker 3: was a group of guys there, and I looked good

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Speaker 3: that night. I know it sounds crazy, would really great.

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Speaker 3: I think I looked good that okay, So wow, okay.

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Speaker 2: Crazy time flies to fast, right, it's insane life insurance.

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Speaker 3: It's insane. You were nineteen, Did you have money? Were

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Speaker 3: you making money then?

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Speaker 2: A little bit? You know, I had a small salary.

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Speaker 2: I was taking from my company and did a lot

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Speaker 2: of like you know, fun consulting work and was a hustler, right,

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Speaker 2: And I was nineteen with no responsibilities. So I think

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Speaker 2: it's easier when you're a kid with no family, no spouse,

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Speaker 2: no children to kind of have fun and make your

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Speaker 2: own path.

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Speaker 3: But did you feel like you were finagling a little bit,

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Speaker 3: like in that time when you were coming up, like

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Speaker 3: moving a little too fast and loose, or you were

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Speaker 3: too young and stupid to know.

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Speaker 2: I think I was just hanging out with people who

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Speaker 2: are much older than me. Most of my friends were

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Speaker 2: in school, and I started hanging out with my investors,

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Speaker 2: who are fifty sixty year old, and like they're, you know, peers.

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Speaker 2: So I was the young guy, almost like the toy

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Speaker 2: in the room where you know, they would take me

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Speaker 2: to the gallows with the dinners and I'd be this like,

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Speaker 2: you know, fun, weird nineteen year old who you know,

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Speaker 2: could provide conversations for ten minutes at the meals. So

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Speaker 2: it's kind of this weird world where I was almost

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Speaker 2: subducted from my childhood or my late childhood years and

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Speaker 2: put into like New York society because I was like

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Speaker 2: weird kid with a tech startup. So it was kind

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Speaker 2: of do you think you were hot shit?

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Speaker 3: Did you think you were hot shit? Did you have

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Speaker 3: a fancy car? Were you like getting girls? Are you

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Speaker 3: getting bottles? Did you think you were like a hot stepper?

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Speaker 2: I think it took a couple of years. I definitely

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Speaker 2: thought I was lame for a couple of years. And

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Speaker 2: by the time I was one or twenty two and

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Speaker 2: you know, had some revenue coming in and making some money,

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Speaker 2: I've definitely embraced that lifestyle that I probably wasn't ready for.

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Speaker 3: And they all liked the marketing of making you this

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Speaker 3: young wonder kin, like you're just like small star athlete

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Speaker 3: that they all know, Like they like, this kid's going

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Speaker 3: to be a billionaire.

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Speaker 1: Is that the type of thing that was going on

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Speaker 1: with the older guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I felt like I had to grow into

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Speaker 2: it right and like in the beginning I was awkward

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Speaker 2: and didn't really know how to talk or hold conversation,

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Speaker 2: and a couple of years later, embrace that to try

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Speaker 2: to grow into it and like almost fill those shoes.

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Speaker 1: Do you speak to any of those people now?

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Speaker 2: Some yes? And I think, like skipping ahead, I went

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Speaker 2: to jail for wire fraud, which basically was lying to

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Speaker 2: a lot of these investors to raise money for the

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Speaker 2: fire festival.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so some of those guys with a fire festival investors.

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Speaker 2: Correct, It's like that trust that I violated I think

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Speaker 2: was the worst part of all of it. I know

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Speaker 2: we'll get there, but that's what kind of hurts me

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Speaker 2: the most.

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Speaker 1: Known and so you.

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Speaker 3: Actually cared about these people. They were like and some

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Speaker 3: of them do speak to you, they have a soft

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Speaker 3: spot for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very like, very black and white. Some are like,

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Speaker 2: fuck off, and some are like, we totally get it

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Speaker 2: and what you did was wrong, but we'll give you

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Speaker 2: another chance. So it's it's kind of there's no one,

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Speaker 2: no one's in the middle. It's very it's very visceral.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And I'm sure some of them were hurt. They

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Speaker 3: feel stupid, they're embarrassed for sure. What about your parents?

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Speaker 3: What would they think about you hanging with all these

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Speaker 3: older people, And did they think you were over your skis?

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Speaker 3: Did they say slow down? It's too much like the

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Speaker 3: way the movie Wall Street. Charlie Sheen's father, Martin, yeah

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Speaker 3: he's Martin Sheen, is like, it's too much fast and

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Speaker 3: loose over here.

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Speaker 2: For sure, you're going too fast. You're taking too many risks,

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Speaker 2: whether that's adrenaline seeking, physical risks, or financial risks. And

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Speaker 2: they're like, go to college, you go to school. So

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Speaker 2: I think they just took the complete opposite approach where

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Speaker 2: it's like, hey, totally pull back, and obviously that kind

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Speaker 2: of propelled me to keep going faster and trying to

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Speaker 2: fight as much rope as I could.

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Speaker 3: And in watching the documentary, which was years ago, I remember, like,

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Speaker 3: I'm you seemed like you thought you were the shit,

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Speaker 3: and you are seemed more humbled now, like you definitely

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Speaker 3: have had your ass handed to you for sure.

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Speaker 2: Right, I don't know, never seen the docks. I think

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Speaker 2: it all just went so fast. The Fire Festival was

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Speaker 2: literally a four month period of announcing this trailer video

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Speaker 2: with the viral social campaign to the actual date of

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Speaker 2: the festival. So I definitely think it's fair to say

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Speaker 2: I was actually like the total asshole for those four months.

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Speaker 2: But in reality, it was like this whirlwind of this

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Speaker 2: craziness and such a period of time that defined my life. Right,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of wild that.

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Speaker 1: It defines that's your identity now, right.

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Speaker 2: I maybe four months as a twenty four year old,

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Speaker 2: which is crazy.

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Speaker 3: So you were twenty four years old, and for those

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Speaker 3: of you who are too young to remember or live

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Speaker 3: under our rock, Fire Festival was from my perspective, was

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to talk about like from the outside

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Speaker 3: and something you were just seeing through social media, all

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Speaker 3: these famous people, the Kylie Jenners, the models, everyone going

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Speaker 3: to this island excited. It's the Fomo. It's the Tart

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Speaker 3: Dubai trip times ten million, It's Coachella, it's all that

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Speaker 3: Revolve festival. It's all that stuff of like douchey people

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Speaker 3: bragging Fomo better than like it's supposed to be aspirational,

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Speaker 3: look at my outfits, Like you know, we're so fabulous

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Speaker 3: and you're not.

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Speaker 1: We're on a boat, we're rich.

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Speaker 3: All that shit piled into one and I read the

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Speaker 3: stat today that it was more viral than Coachello, with

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Speaker 3: more impressions, and then you said, then it said, like

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Speaker 3: and there's no third is like way dropped down?

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Speaker 2: Is that? What?

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Speaker 1: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, It's been the most talked about festival in the

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Speaker 2: world since twenty sixteen and it's never happened, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of wild, right, Like literally the most talked about

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Speaker 2: music festival ever without it ever taking place.

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Speaker 1: And you were partners with Ja Ruhl and it fucked

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Speaker 1: him up too.

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Speaker 2: We were partners. Yes, I was the only one he

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Speaker 2: went to jail, So I think I was the only one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but so how did you? But he was probably

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Speaker 1: scared he was going to jail.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think he had gone to jail already,

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Speaker 2: so he knew what he had to do, I think

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Speaker 2: at that point.

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Speaker 1: And were you close with him?

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Speaker 2: H Yeah. We were very close friends for maybe three

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Speaker 2: or four year prior to Fire and Fire Festival and

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Speaker 2: always knew we'd work together in some capacity and that

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Speaker 2: was the that was the attempt.

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Speaker 1: So how did you meet him?

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Speaker 2: I had a company called Magnesis prior to Fire, and

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Speaker 2: I basically built a events company on top of your

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Speaker 2: credit card. So I bought this black strip of metal

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Speaker 2: from China and would copy people's like shitty Chase debit

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Speaker 2: cards onto this black hunk of metal and then built

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Speaker 2: different benefits you would get on top of the card.

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Speaker 2: And one of the benefits was a lot of these

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Speaker 2: small private concerts we did throughout New York and he

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Speaker 2: was one of the two dozen artists that we booked

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Speaker 2: for these concerts. Just kind of connected through that and

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Speaker 2: became friends.

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Speaker 3: Meaning it was just like a branding vehicle. You were

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Speaker 3: like putting the blush in a better compact and adding

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Speaker 3: some marketing assets to is.

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Speaker 2: That what you're saying exactly, And then we had twenty

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Speaker 2: five twenty five year olds running around New York with

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Speaker 2: these cards who loved it, and then booked a lot

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Speaker 2: of music artists a way just like kind of have

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Speaker 2: fun and get back to them.

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Speaker 3: And why was it so criticized? Because I saw on

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Speaker 3: the dock that it was criticized as if like I

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Speaker 3: forgot exactly what the criticism was. But it was like

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Speaker 3: that there was some fraud there too. There was some

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Speaker 3: perception of fraud there too. There was the social media

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Speaker 3: network that you made. There's a perception that it was

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Speaker 3: just like something else, which to me, a lot of

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Speaker 3: things are like something else, So like, is that the

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Speaker 3: only problem that people had with that that was like

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Speaker 3: something else?

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Speaker 2: I think it was amazing for three years, and then

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Speaker 2: I got distracted by this new shiny thing which is

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Speaker 2: Fire for four months, and then you know, once Fire collapsed,

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Speaker 2: it took it all down. We sold Magniss for basically

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Speaker 2: pennies after the Fire festival because I was the brand

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Speaker 2: and my ability to create these experiences were destroyed at

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Speaker 2: that point. But I think it was more about it.

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Speaker 3: It was I'm saying, no, I'm saying, wasn't there something

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Speaker 3: before you said there was a social network? So someone

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Speaker 3: criticized that as being like something else. Was there any

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Speaker 3: other legal problem with that? Was there any investigation into

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Speaker 3: that social network? That just was whatever and it dissolved.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't exactly did that business in and of itself

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Speaker 3: have any taint to it?

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Speaker 2: It was just the taint was me, and like you know,

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Speaker 2: I was ruined, right, and so if oh, that's Billy's product,

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Speaker 2: therefore it must be terrible. So I think that was

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Speaker 2: kind of right.

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Speaker 3: But no one But so whatever they were digging up,

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Speaker 3: they were just digging up whatever they could on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no criminal auity or like the legal

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Speaker 2: aspect of the business. It was a great business that

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Speaker 2: I didn't know how to see through because I got

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Speaker 2: distracted by like what's next in this bigger opportunity? And

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Speaker 2: that was my That was my fault and like my issue.

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Speaker 3: But in order to believe you, I want to know

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Speaker 3: that you you you admit that there was criminal aspect

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Speaker 3: of Firefest completely.

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Speaker 2: It was totally blocked by.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so you're acknowledging because I mean you you deserved

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Speaker 3: to go to jail in your opinion, you acknowledge your

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Speaker 3: wrongdoing completely.

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Speaker 2: I met a lot of very good people in jail,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't meet one person who deserve to be

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Speaker 2: there in some capacity. So I think everybody, like I

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Speaker 2: think it's very rare they're going to find a random

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Speaker 2: person and prosecute them. I think you have done something wrong,

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Speaker 2: and you make it over prosecuted or under prosecuted. But

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Speaker 2: I was certainly guilty and deserve.

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Speaker 3: To go to jail zero fifty shades of how much

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Speaker 3: there's a disparity and someone belongs to be there for longer.

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Speaker 1: It's not I got a longer stet.

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Speaker 2: But okay, you did something wrong, you get there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, you were in the mix and something's wrong. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel that you were lucky with your sentence

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Speaker 3: or your sentence was longer, or was exactly what it

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Speaker 3: should be based on you know, other people, or what's

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Speaker 3: right or what you've heard read whatever.

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Speaker 2: The answer literally changed by the day I started in

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Speaker 2: the jail in New York, where there are a lot

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Speaker 2: of other financial crime people, and there I felt like

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Speaker 2: my sentence was super long because I would meet guys

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Speaker 2: who had dollar figures or victim amounts that were ten

330
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Speaker 2: times mine who had less time. And then I got

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Speaker 2: in trouble in prison a couple of times and was

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Speaker 2: transferred further west, first to Ohio and then to Detroit,

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Speaker 2: where I met people who had, you know, a couple

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Speaker 2: of dollars and twenty year sentences, So I kind of

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Speaker 2: felt lucky. So I think it really depends on where

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Speaker 2: you are. But in the day, I think my six

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Speaker 2: year sentence was fair. That's probably right.

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Speaker 1: Did you have terrifying experiences in there?

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Speaker 2: I did ten months in solitary confinement, seven of it

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Speaker 2: which was for trying to do a podcast from the

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Speaker 2: prison payphone. So I think that really sucked. And like

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Speaker 2: the biggest takeaway from that is I'm not a conspiracy theorist,

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Speaker 2: but knowing that there was someone who had that power

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Speaker 2: to snap their fingers and literally put me into a

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Speaker 2: concrete box for seven months was wild.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, you were in solitary confine? What you

347
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Speaker 3: said ten seven or ten ten months?

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Speaker 2: Total? I did one seventh month stint just for the podcast, Like,

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Speaker 2: as punishment for that.

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Speaker 1: What is solitary confinement? Like? Does it?

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Speaker 2: Hell? It's bad? You're supposed to be able to go

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Speaker 2: outside for one hour? A day, but it was during COVID,

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Speaker 2: so ironically that was an excuse where I couldn't leave.

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Speaker 2: So I was literally in a cage for seven months,

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Speaker 2: and that was really really crazy.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you eat in there, you do everything

357
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Speaker 1: in there?

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Speaker 2: You can you read that they put your food through

359
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Speaker 2: like a doggy tray. So there's no like contact with anybody.

360
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Speaker 2: And you're allowed to have two books a week, which

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Speaker 2: sounds like a lot, but when you have nothing else

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Speaker 2: to do, it's it's you know, you do that in

363
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Speaker 2: a day and a half or two days, even if

364
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 2: you're like an average reader. So a lot of push ups,

365
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 2: a lot of meditating, and a lot of longing for

366
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Speaker 2: relationships like you know, physical, emotional, just want to be

367
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Speaker 2: around people. I think it's the biggest thing you start

368
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Speaker 2: creating after a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: Did it fuck with your head big time? Did it

370
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Speaker 1: mess you?

371
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Speaker 3: Like? Are you very fucked up from being in solitary

372
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Speaker 3: confinement for that period of time like we see in

373
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Speaker 3: the movies?

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Speaker 1: That sounds yeah.

375
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Speaker 2: I think like nightmares literally maybe stopped two months ago,

376
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 2: so it took a few years afterwards to kind of

377
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 2: go away. And once again, I think the biggest fear

378
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 2: was knowing that like, oh wow, there was some prison

379
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 2: official who literally could say, okay, I want Billy. You

380
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 2: know in here for seven months and it happened, and

381
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Speaker 2: that was just crazy for me.

382
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Speaker 1: Are you in therapy?

383
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Speaker 2: I have been Yes.

384
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 1: What did your.

385
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Speaker 3: Parents, whether you have a good relationship with them or not.

386
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Speaker 3: You have some relationship with you siblings?

387
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Speaker 2: Younger sister thirties, slives in the city.

388
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Speaker 1: Are you close with her?

389
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Speaker 2: Not really? I think it's hard hard for her. She

390
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 2: was twenty one or twenty two when it all happens,

391
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Speaker 2: So I think, like you know, as a young woman

392
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Speaker 2: in New York, it's kind of tough when your brothers

393
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Speaker 2: it's me.

394
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Speaker 1: At that point, she was in the demo.

395
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Speaker 2: She was in that yeah, Target demo exactly.

396
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,479
Speaker 3: And what about your mom, Like, what was your mom

397
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 3: saying when you were going into solitary confinement?

398
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 1: Was she hysterical?

399
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 2: I think the hardest part for the family is not known,

400
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 2: at least when you're going through it, like you you

401
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 2: have real time updates, like it's you, it's happening. You

402
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 2: know what's happening every second when your family's not there,

403
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,440
Speaker 2: like they might hear oh in the news or from

404
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 2: a letter like you're in solitary confinement, but what does

405
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 2: that mean? Like what's actually happening? So it's like not

406
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 2: knowing made them think the worst. I think that was

407
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,400
Speaker 2: the most messed up part and hardest to kind of

408
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,000
Speaker 2: come to terms with.

409
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Speaker 1: So you traumatize your entire family.

410
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 2: Like for yeah, it's terrible.

411
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, parents, sure have you cost them a lot of money.

412
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,160
Speaker 2: Some I think the emotional damage is probably the worst

413
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 2: part of it. Like you know, money can always be

414
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 2: solved in some capacity and like I will do that

415
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 2: through the rest of my life. But I think the

416
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 2: emotional damage to trust, like that's where really hurts the most.

417
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 3: Are you spending the rest of your life trying to

418
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 3: repair the emotional trust to absolutely?

419
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: I think like my dream is to be able to

420
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 2: go and shake the hands that I wronged and where

421
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 2: they're like okay, like we got paid back, but that's

422
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 2: one thing more importantly, like we can trust you now,

423
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 2: and not saying they're going to be investors or business

424
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 2: partners again, more of that like human level where hey,

425
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 2: like I trust you as a person. I think that's

426
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 2: kind of I crave that and that would make me

427
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:15,360
Speaker 2: feel fulfilled.

428
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,880
Speaker 3: So why is someone from jail suing you for six

429
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:19,959
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars.

430
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, So ironically, my crime was far from the worst

431
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: of people in prison, and as I was transferred to

432
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 2: higher level prisons and worse prisons, you know, I was

433
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 2: essentially it wasn't that bad day to day, but I

434
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,640
Speaker 2: was a target for people with hainous crimes. So there

435
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 2: was someone who ended up being a child predator who

436
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 2: basically met me when I was first released to a

437
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 2: halfway house from jail, started showering me with gifts and

438
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 2: found out when I was still in that halfway house

439
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,880
Speaker 2: that he was a child predator and basically severed ties

440
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,439
Speaker 2: with him. And you know, that's that story. So it

441
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 2: was a hard transition from like leaving jail.

442
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 3: Oh wait, what does it have to do with the

443
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 3: six hundred thousand I'm saying, why would someone sue you?

444
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 3: What was the six hundred thousand dollar claim about? And

445
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 3: where that Now?

446
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was trying to give me gifts.

447
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 3: You admit that firefest was completely illegal and you did

448
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 3: criminals to hear you're saying you did not do anything.

449
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,400
Speaker 1: You're saying this is wrong.

450
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone like trying to pull me down a little

451
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 2: bit to bring themselves up, whether it's you know, fifteen

452
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 2: seconds of press or whatever it may be.

453
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, that's hard.

454
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna choose to believe you because I'm

455
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 3: being accountable about some things.

456
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to wade through this, but it's put

457
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 1: you're pretty clear.

458
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

459
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,439
Speaker 3: So you were in jail and you were still fucking around,

460
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 3: trying to make money, trying to do something like what

461
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 3: so what is that is that? Like you still hadn't

462
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 3: learned your lesson? Like what was that about? Like why

463
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 3: didn't you just like put your head down, I'm gonna

464
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 3: fucking pay attention, do what I'm told, listen, and get

465
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:39,360
Speaker 3: the fuck out of here.

466
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 2: Oh maybe I need you as my mom my mom

467
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: at that point, but it's like I didn't know how

468
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 2: to sit down and shut up basically, and like it

469
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 2: might not have broken the rules per se with the podcast,

470
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,439
Speaker 2: but it was against like the theme with the rules, right,

471
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 2: The point of jail is to you're in time out.

472
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 2: It's not to just provide a different platform for you

473
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 2: to continue your business. And I didn't get that, and

474
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 2: it took time and it kept thinking, oh, it's like

475
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 2: it's on me. I can prove that I'm not as

476
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 2: bad as it might have been portrayed. But that was

477
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 2: beyond the point. Like the point was I was wrong,

478
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 2: I was guilty, and because of that it is now

479
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: time to you know, be quiet. So it took a

480
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 2: minute to get there.

481
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 3: Ellen Degenerous once said to me, you will keep making

482
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 3: the mistake until you learn the lesson, like in relationships

483
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 3: and in your case, in your your antics and your shortcuts.

484
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 3: And Lauren Michaels once said to me, you have to

485
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: make an exit to make an entrance, meaning like it

486
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 3: wasn't even about me, he was talking about one of

487
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 3: the people on Saturday Night Live. But I take that

488
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 3: as like your day will come to be able to

489
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 3: like so sit down, shut up, and then like later.

490
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:38,679
Speaker 1: You know.

491
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 3: I love that, not that it's not that it's going

492
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 3: to be good for you. I mean, it's not great

493
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 3: for you by any means, and you don't deserve it

494
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 3: to be. But I but I you know, I want

495
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 3: to talk through it, okay, So I love that.

496
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 2: Ye, the day will come and it's like you have

497
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 2: to go through the punished medias there first before you

498
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 2: have that chance and I couldn't couldn't grasp that, So

499
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,400
Speaker 2: I agree, right, awesome.

500
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 3: You've thought about people who have done really bad things,

501
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 3: have you like looked into those more closer than others?

502
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I think it's like it's yeah, it's it's

503
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: funny from my perspective to be like, you know, why

504
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 2: is he or she doing that? Or like, oh, that's

505
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 2: so amazing what they did do. So yeah, it's it's cool.

506
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: To see who do you look at? Who are you

507
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 1: looking at?

508
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 3: Thinking like they fucked up but like eventually were able

509
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 3: to like redeem themselves.

510
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 1: Who are those people? Besides Michael Vick?

511
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 2: I think Ian Schrager had a really cool comeback story

512
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 2: and obviously now is an incredible hotel brand and hotel line.

513
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: So someone who took it there able to be good

514
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: at find a good partner to kind of help them

515
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: and you know, provide parameters and be successful. That's pretty cool.

516
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 3: You mean because he went to jail because what was

517
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 3: going on with Studio fifty four.

518
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like came back and said, Okay, I'm great

519
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: at this like two or three things, and I need

520
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: help in these other areas and found a great partner

521
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 2: and you know, built a successful brand for himself.

522
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 3: So interesting I would I had him on this podcast,

523
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 3: and I would never have thought of that because I

524
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 3: forgot to the point of marketing and branding.

525
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: I forgot.

526
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 3: And I know that story because I know I know

527
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 3: somebody who did all the lighting and the wiring for

528
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 3: Studio fifty four. Do you think that Ian Schrager's crimes

529
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: were on par with yours? Or like worse or better

530
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 3: or just similar? Is Jordan Belfoire the Wolf of All Street?

531
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 3: Is it on par the crimes? Is it similar?

532
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think my crime is worse and Ian triggers Uh. Yeah.

533
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 2: I think I probably caused more emotional damage than he

534
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: did to people, so I think, like that's worse.

535
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 3: Oh okay, his is like just general like their taste skimming,

536
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 3: but it's not like hurting direct people.

537
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 2: Yes, I think what I did is worse than him,

538
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: but he's still, you know, found a way where someone

539
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 2: like you would even forget because he's become you know,

540
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 2: respectful person, a member of society. So I think that's

541
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 2: that's motivating.

542
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: But about Jordan, I don't know.

543
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: I don't know him personally, so I think this story

544
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: is it's hard to understand like what's real and what

545
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: isn't real? Right, because everything is just sensationalized so much.

546
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: So, and marketing has been a movie and all that stuff.

547
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: Yes, so I don't really know like who he heard

548
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: or didn't hurt and maybe it's bad, maybe it's not

549
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: so bad. It's it's kind of hard to hard to

550
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: say without knowing the details.

551
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: Got it?

552
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 3: Okay, So let's get into firefest.

553
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: All right. So you're a hotshot.

554
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 3: You've got this credit card, you've got this like buzz,

555
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 3: and you're running around the city going to clubs. And

556
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: I think and that you had a girlfriend that was

557
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 3: on the road with you, right like doing this.

558
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: Now yeah a little bit, Yeah, to speak to her anymore?

559
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: Have a new one? Now? Who I met after fire?

560
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 1: But you met a girl after fire before prison?

561
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 2: Correct? Yes?

562
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: And she stayed with you.

563
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: For some time. We broke up for a little bit

564
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: and you know, an how we're back together. So she

565
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: she's tough?

566
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: Interesting does she? Does she trust you?

567
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: I hope? So? So I think she she was not

568
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: there for the for the fun time, So that was

569
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: kind of ironic, right, like didn't get to experience the

570
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: quick rise.

571
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: She's only been there for the ship, only.

572
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 2: Only been there for the ship, so I think I

573
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: owe it to make things work.

574
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: What kind of person is she?

575
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 2: Like?

576
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: What is she like? Conservative is she like? What is

577
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: she like? What does she do for a living in marketing?

578
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 3: I don't have to like get into her fully, but

579
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: I'm just curious what kind of woman you're in a

580
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 3: relationship with?

581
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: Super like strong willed, strong personality. Yeah, she's far and

582
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 2: moved here when she was fifteen or sixteen, which is

583
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: kind of like tough.

584
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: And what was her family? Said? You have you met

585
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: a family?

586
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: I have. It's it's weird because I think people who

587
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: kind of met me after didn't didn't get to experience

588
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: like the good and the bad that came with the

589
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: chaos of fire and Fire Festival. So I think to them,

590
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: it's like here's a character, and like here's like you know,

591
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: current Billy for all of us good and all is bad.

592
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: So I think for them it's kind of hard to

593
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: put it all together and like understand what's what?

594
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: Okay?

595
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 3: So you are doing this credit card, you're a hot shot,

596
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 3: you have a girlfriend, walk me through what goes on?

597
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 3: So now you go to some of these investors that

598
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: you were doing VC with and you've talken a jar rule.

599
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 3: You brought it, you packaged it with jar roles. So

600
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 3: people wanted to invest because you had him already right

601
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: like stuff like that.

602
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 2: Yes, like it was kind of crazy. We had this

603
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: townhouse in the West Village where all of our cardholders

604
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: had come. It was almost like a so house, you know,

605
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: twelve years ago for young people in Manhattan. And this

606
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: guy walked in who was a programmer at Google and

607
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: a self taught pilot, and he said, I just bought

608
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: a plane. I want a flyabillity to the Bahamas. So

609
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: you know, of course we said, he asked one of

610
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: this guy's plane. We ran out of gas and landed

611
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: on this remote island in this small chain of the Bahamas,

612
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 2: and turned out the island had crazy history as like

613
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: a Blackbeard and a Pablo Escobars, like you know, teams,

614
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: drug running island and whatever. Like Now we were there

615
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: and I just totally fell in love with this place.

616
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: I fell in love with the ocean. I fell in

617
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: love with literally the four people who actually lived there.

618
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: And I kept bringing my friends and customers and music

619
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 2: talent all to this island, and these trips kept growing

620
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: and growing.

621
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: Who was paying for the trips to go to the island.

622
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: Initially we were selling spots to our Magnesis cardholders, so

623
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: they would basically pay a fee and we'd take them

624
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: from Teterborough and these like small crappy nineteen sixties planes

625
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 2: and fly to the island for the weekend.

626
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: Where would they stay.

627
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: We would there were a couple of small houses or

628
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: villas there. We would get a boat and like we

629
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 2: kind of like it started with four people and they

630
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: became two hundred people trips. And on one of these trips,

631
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: I had a childhood friend who said, you should totally

632
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: do a music festival here for all of your Magnieis cardholders.

633
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: So what does that friend say? Now?

634
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: I know right, Like it's funny because like twenty people

635
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: have since said, oh, it's my idea. But it was like, really,

636
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 2: this guy who wasn't involved at all, who had the

637
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: idea for fire and Fire festival.

638
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: And is he still your friend?

639
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: Haven't spoken to him? Actually no, okay, but that's where

640
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: it started.

641
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 3: So are you are you ripping these two hundred people

642
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: off while this is happening or no, this is just normal,

643
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: like you're making some money.

644
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: No, these trips are great and like they're awesome, and

645
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: what started with your average twenty two year old became

646
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: big music artists, comedians, some of the biggest models in

647
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: the world. And we started filming some of these trips

648
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: and bits.

649
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: He was paying for this. Your business is paying for you.

650
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: Making so much money that you're just like you're spending

651
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: this or who's paying for all this stuff?

652
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: Initially the customers are paying for it themselves.

653
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: Then eventually he was paying for the filming it.

654
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 2: Now our business are going to pay for the trips

655
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: are getting big, we have brand sponsors, we're making more money,

656
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: Like you know, things are going well now that business

657
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: is paying for it. At that point where it's like,

658
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: all right, let's do a festival. Now it's time to

659
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: raise some money. Like we've proved we can have you know,

660
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: three or four days where you escape reality in New

661
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: York City, you're diving for your own fish or cooking

662
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: in the beach, and all these people who might not

663
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: spend time together at home are now becoming great friends

664
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: or they're starting companies together. And wanted to kind of

665
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: like formulate and package these experiences and sell it as

666
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: a music festival.

667
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: You raise how much money with how many people.

668
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: Ended up raising around like twenty seven or twenty eight

669
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: million for Fire Festival over this four month period from

670
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: maybe three or four dozen investors, So to.

671
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: Match the number, that's the number of what you owe

672
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: back is twenty seven million plus seven million in taxes,

673
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: So you right correct, exactly thirty four million in the hole.

674
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: And all these people invested, And what went sideways? And

675
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: how fast did it go sideways? And how much did

676
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 3: you know? And what we trying to do? And how

677
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: did you get yourself in deeper? And how did you

678
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: get yourself to jail? Like what now goes on?

679
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: So you're there? What goes on?

680
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: There are two big issues. So the first thing is

681
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 2: that even if Fire Festival was perfect, it was as

682
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: luxurious adventurous as we advertised, I still would have gone

683
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: to jail because I lied to the investors to try

684
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: to get more money. Like so that was the crime.

685
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: The crime was like a mini made off crime, Like

686
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: you're saying, let me get more so I can, and

687
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: then I'm going to end up paying them back. You

688
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: thought you had you could go, you could handle it.

689
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I lied and said, hey, we are

690
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: doing better than we are. I have more money than

691
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: I actually have, or the company is more money than

692
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: it actually has, and just like gave very basic, almost

693
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: like childlike exaggerations to help raise money, which actually didn't

694
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: hurt me. But it's a separate story. And then the

695
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: second part was, what.

696
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 3: Do you mean that's a separate start? What do you

697
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 3: mean say that go through that, let's just do it.

698
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: I think people were investing in me initially because they

699
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: had worked with me for five or six years. They've

700
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: seen all the little failures, they had seen some of

701
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: the little wins, and they believe that if Fire was

702
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: done right, it would have been bigger than the previous acts,

703
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: which shit right, we all agree with. So they were

704
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: investing because of that, and almost despite my exaggerations for

705
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: how well Fire was doing. I think when it got

706
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: to a certain point where we needed even more money,

707
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 2: I probably scared away people who would have actually invested

708
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 2: more because it was too good to be true. So ironically,

709
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: the lying probably pushed away a lot more capital and

710
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: probably people who could have helped make it a reality,

711
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: because like it was obvious.

712
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: You're saying, you could have said them in a little

713
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: bit of trouble.

714
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: We can do this, but this is what's going on,

715
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: and let me get some advisors and crowdsource some information

716
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: so you can help me get I'm fucked right now

717
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 3: and I need help.

718
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: I was so scared to show kings in the Armor,

719
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: where in the reality was like, these people already trusted me.

720
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 2: I'd built that trust.

721
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: It's almost endearing for people to hear what's wrong. So

722
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: I was part. I was one of the people to

723
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: start the model.

724
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: Now I was the person to really start the model

725
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: for monetizing reality television, like before the Kardashians, and we

726
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: had the same agent who ended up using my model.

727
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: For them later.

728
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: Like in other words, I was util the Housewives to

729
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: promote Skinny Girl, and I was using this vehicle that

730
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: no one else was using in that way. They were

731
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: using it to show how rich they were and buying diamonds,

732
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 3: and I was using it because I.

733
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: Was poor as this vehicle.

734
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: So this agent then ended up bringing this model over

735
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: to the Kardashians, who were bigger, and they weren't bigger

736
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: yet but they were still bigger, and like was doing

737
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 3: deals through the shows for them, a serious deal that

738
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: ended up failing. Like he kind of used a quick

739
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: trim he put into their show. He was using my model.

740
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: But one of the things I experienced, and we were

741
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: great and we made money together, is that he would

742
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: always like act like he knew everything. And I was

743
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 3: freaked out by that because a couple of times we

744
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: got really jammed up in things that I ended up

745
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: having to get us out of. Like it was a

746
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: situation where I did a brand deal with a partner

747
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: in Skinny Girl for another category and I wasn't allowed

748
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: to use that category, meaning he could have said I'm

749
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 3: suing you because you're not allowed to use this this

750
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 3: in genes let's say, or I was shapewear. But what

751
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: I did was went to the original Skinny Girl partner

752
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: and said, listen, I have to go to you to

753
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: ask my lit I have to ask my liquor partner

754
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: you if I can use the intellectual property in these

755
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: other categories. But the agent did a deal with them

756
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: already and made a mistake because he didn't know that.

757
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 3: So I said, I'll figure it out, and I went

758
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: to the partner and asked his permission, and he didn't

759
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: love it, but he said no problem, Like kind of

760
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 3: like I'll do this for you, and I probably offered

761
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: to do something for him. So I'm sorry for that

762
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: long story, but it just is like, if you get

763
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 3: entangled and you're doing something that you're over your skis,

764
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 3: you have to go come, you have to come correct.

765
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: So that's what I think you're talking about as a

766
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: business takeaway for people.

767
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: And most smart people understand that nothing is going to

768
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: be perfect. So if you're saying everything is perfect, and

769
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: they'd been there ten times themselves, they're like, this is bullshit, right,

770
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: it's impossible things are going this well, and they think

771
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: it scared.

772
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: Them away, so they started getting nervous. They're now in

773
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: the pyramid scheme, they're not at the top, they don't

774
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: know if they're getting outetting their money, and they're all

775
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: freaking up, but they don't want to give more because

776
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: they're freaking out.

777
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they would they would give more to try

778
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: to make it work. I think ultimately we were all

779
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: aligned that making the festival itself work was the best

780
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: chance at a financial win, at a social win, at

781
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: a business win. So we legitimately tried, literally up until

782
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: the last second, to make Fire Festival happen. Then the

783
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: other side of The problem was just my inability to

784
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: build a city in the middle of nowhere in four months.

785
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: It is having no like real estate development experience to

786
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: that scale.

787
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, before you got there, you knew the shit

788
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 3: was going sideways before this, like how long before I

789
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 3: didn't know.

790
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: After the first one thousand guests arrived, I had basically

791
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: my number two come up to me and say, three

792
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: people got killed. This wasn't true at all. Yeah, no

793
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: one was even, no one was slightly hurt. Like, no,

794
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: there was zero physical issues. But I don't know if

795
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: he did that on purpose or if he's telling the truth,

796
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: if he's lying, But like that kind of snapped me

797
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: out of it, like, oh shit, we are not ready.

798
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: And we literally turned like seven to thirty sevens around

799
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: in the air and got everybody off the island. But

800
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: up until that last second of a thousand guests actually arriving,

801
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: I thought that, you know, fire Festival one was going

802
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: to happen, And.

803
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: So where's the true crime, Like we saw the cheese sandwich,

804
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: We've seen the people freaking out.

805
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: There was it was terrible conditions. We know the story.

806
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean many people.

807
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 3: If you don't know the story, it was this shit

808
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 3: show that never happened with a piece of cheese that

809
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: went viral in a styrofoam box and people freaking out

810
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: and crying, but sort of also like a camaraderie between

811
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 3: them and like it being the worst disaster and getting

812
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: attention for it. But it was a disaster. So where

813
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: was the true crime? You owe twenty seven million dollars

814
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 3: to how many people?

815
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: So I owed twenty seven million dollars to the three

816
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: dozen or so investors. So the crime were simply the

817
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: people who invested money into fire festival.

818
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: Because you kept because you told them, you lied to

819
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: them that it was going well, and got more money.

820
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: Like what specifically is the crime? Wire fraud? What was

821
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: the crime?

822
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: So like example, Okay, you know this sponsor is going

823
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: to pay US five million, but in reality the sponsor

824
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: is only paying us a million, So like lies like

825
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: that that tried to entice them to make the deal

826
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: look better than.

827
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: Actually was, to get more money.

828
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: Do you get more money? Exactly? The actual the festival

829
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: itself wasn't the crime. I think most people get that wrong,

830
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: Like the people who bought tickets whatever, Like we legitimately

831
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: tried to make that happen. So the festival didn't matter

832
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: how it turned out, how good or how bad it was.

833
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: I committed the same crime and would have gone to

834
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: jail for the same period of time even if it

835
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: was the best festival of all time.

836
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: So, okay, so is your plan? So how do you

837
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: make money?

838
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: Now?

839
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: Do you have any money? How much money?

840
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: Doing all right? Doing a lot of marketing, consulting work,

841
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: so realizing like what I suck at and what I'm

842
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: good at. So helping a lot of venture capital back

843
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: startups for their marketing.

844
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: Who's hiring you? Like? What person is hiring you? Like?

845
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: How do you because you already know them, because they're

846
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: intrigued by the story, because they think you're smart and

847
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: you did stupid things, like who's you know? You seem

848
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: sound to me, you seem culpable, you seem accountable.

849
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: I'm surprised.

850
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to come on here and

851
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: be like trying to convince me of all the ways

852
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: it wasn't your fault.

853
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I'm glad I had you on. I have

854
00:33:59,440 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: you on.

855
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: Thank you?

856
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: Who's hiring you? And what are they paying you? Are

857
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: they paying you at a massive discount? Like?

858
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: How is this working.

859
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: Ironically, you know, probably doing pretty well income wise compared

860
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: to where he was before. But the you know, the

861
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: debts owed are so high, so such a large. I

862
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: joke that I have like the world's worst agent, like

863
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: in restitution. Right, no matter what I make, the agent

864
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 2: gets paid first, and they take a pretty significant piece

865
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: off the top. So do marketing work. And actually a

866
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: lot of it is former investors of mine who have

867
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: invested in let's say thirty tech companies, right, they might

868
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 2: recommend to some of their investments like this guy's good

869
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: at marketing and he's bad at this, so if you

870
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: can kind of keep him in this box, he's great.

871
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: And that makes sense.

872
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,479
Speaker 3: So you are actually people are working with you again

873
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 3: that have worked with you in the past, anyone that

874
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: invested with you, not.

875
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: Directly, but the companies they've invested in have hired me.

876
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: So they might call, like the founder of a company

877
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: they invested in, say hey, like, I know you guys

878
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 2: are having this marketing problem. I think you know, Billy

879
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: can help with this issue, but like, don't let him

880
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: do this. We'll let him do that.

881
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: So how much money are you making a year of approximately?

882
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: Can you say? Close range is it six figures? Is

883
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: it seven figures?

884
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? In that range? Okay, okay, I mean it's not amazing,

885
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: but enough.

886
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 3: But do you go out to a restaurant, you're eating

887
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 3: at a sushi restaurant, You're wearing decent clothes, and people

888
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: are looking at you like what fuck? These people lost

889
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: their money and you're in a restaurant, Like, how.

890
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: Do you live your life?

891
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: If you go on a vacation, if you step but

892
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 3: on an airplane, you're doing something wrong? Because so how

893
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 3: does how do you live? But yet you are going

894
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 3: to hopefully pay these people back? How do you live

895
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 3: your everyday life? If you belong to a gym? How

896
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: did you pay for the gym membership?

897
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: Like?

898
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: How do you operate? What kind of car do you drive?

899
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: Like?

900
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: How do you justify all that?

901
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I think I'm really good at paying restitution.

902
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: So every month, like literally every month, I write a

903
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: check back to the investors that I owe, and I'm

904
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: super transparent about like what I made that month. So

905
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 2: I'm making this up. Let's say, man, hundred dollars last month,

906
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: Like all right, here's how I made it, and you know,

907
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 2: here's where it went, and here's how much you guys.

908
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: You're just giving them like a newsletter.

909
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: It's almost like almost like a newsletter. So it is

910
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 2: what it is, Right if I make ten million dollars

911
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: or ten thousand dollars, like here's how much they made

912
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: and I just disclose it.

913
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 3: So are you doing this because you're doing this or

914
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: because you would lead required to do it.

915
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: I'm legally required to pay a certain percentage, but I'm

916
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: trying to go above and beyond that and do more.

917
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: So like, for example, we are doing Fire Festival Too again,

918
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: and by we, there is a third party festival company

919
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: who's in charge and not me, who's actually doing Fire Too,

920
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: and they're going to give because.

921
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: I think it's such a viable brand.

922
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if like people will come to Fire Festival

923
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 2: too just to see what happens, like to be part

924
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: of the cultural moment, right exactly if they can do

925
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: it and it's not me, and I can like talk

926
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: some shit and do some marketing and like maybe do

927
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: something wild like at the event and like do like

928
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: abillity fire thing. That's cool. But they're actually in charge

929
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: and they're giving a percentage of their business back to restitution.

930
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: And that's like in addition to whatever I personally have

931
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: to pay. So trying to find ways like that that

932
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 2: are a viable way.

933
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: To you didn't have to do that.

934
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 3: In other words, you own who owns the intellectual property

935
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: for fires? I do onc of it.

936
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I license it to this festival company essentially

937
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: to do the festival.

938
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: And so are you so very interesting? Can you?

939
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 3: Can you do Fire festival merchandise like you own Fire

940
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 3: Festival and everything you could do and you're going to right.

941
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another licensing deal we did was with the Broadway

942
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: Musical Company, So a company is producing a fire Broadway musical.

943
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: Similar deal, like.

944
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: What about a movie? What about scripted movie?

945
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: I haven't done that yet. Hopefully after Fire to is successful,

946
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: I think the redemption is probably a more interesting story.

947
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: So knock on wood.

948
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: But and will you will you vow here on this

949
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: show that every project you ever do with Fire you

950
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 3: will give those investors back a piece of it?

951
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. So it's in their interest

952
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: to make Fire to work. There's no ask from them.

953
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: But it's like, you know, cheers silently from the sideline,

954
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: and you know, when it works, it benefits everybody.

955
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 3: That will be interesting if one day you pay them

956
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: back with it, you're paying more than you took, right,

957
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 3: you're going to make you want to make them money?

958
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, there's like, right, there's mandatory interest at it

959
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: on top.

960
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you want that, Like you should

961
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: do a poet like ak okay, so you you should

962
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 3: have it be if you make over fifty million and

963
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: you're gonna give them a kicker, like there's a kicker

964
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: a bonus, you should really do that. And then so

965
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 3: your honest personal goal is that you pay them all

966
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: back plus a bonus, and that you're then able to

967
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 3: go like personally apologize and say I made good, I

968
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: recognize my actions, et cetera, and never.

969
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: Take more than one festival. Let's say in five years

970
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: after five fire Festival is a movie, a musical, whatever,

971
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: like it might get there, right like that about.

972
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: Twenty seven million with the right merch brand for Fire Festival.

973
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: Believe it or not, I would invest in that.

974
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not absurd, it's it's possible.

975
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's I don't think I don't

976
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: think it's five years. I think if you did, if

977
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 3: you had a merch brand and the festival and certain

978
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: things like I don't know, like it's very like edgy,

979
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 3: like BMX stuff, skateboard stuff, people that take chances and

980
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 3: do stupid things like I'm a marketer too, but I.

981
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 2: Think I lean in, like lean into the recklessness of it,

982
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: like you know Freres.

983
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:52,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, but don't.

984
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 3: You shouldn't lean into loving it and gloating it. You

985
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 3: should be the conservative guy. But it works for brands

986
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: like that type of shit, let's ski off of cliffs

987
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, in my opinion, agreed. Well, I

988
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: have to say, this is an unexpected interesting conversation and

989
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 3: now I'm invested and I want to see what happens.

990
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thank you very much.

991
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

992
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: Is there anything else you wanted to say? Talk about market?

993
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 3: Get out there.

994
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: I think I think it's cool that you know. I

995
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: my start was seeing you to nightclub and thinking how

996
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: as the coolest nineteen year old in the world being

997
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: in the same room. And come full circle now many

998
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: years later and many many flaws and mistakes later, but

999
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: it's wild to see this rid of life. And hopefully

1000
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: in thirteen more years we can have a different conversation

1001
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: than this one.

1002
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And is the right that you want to say

1003
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: to all these people.

1004
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 2: I think too. I'm sure some of my investors are listening. Like,

1005
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: I've apologized to all you guys and I'm sorry, and uh,

1006
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 2: we're doing our best to pay you guys back and

1007
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: hopefully these entities pay off.

1008
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: So we're actually speak loud of the words, right, Yeah.

1009
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's it takes time, it takes actions, and

1010
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 2: apologies are meaningless at this point. It's more about showing

1011
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 2: you guys the results.

1012
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: And what about your parents and your sister?

1013
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully there listening, but I.

1014
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: Think they might be. So what do you want to say?

1015
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: I think recognizing that the people who are punished the

1016
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: most were actually family and who were punished harder than me,

1017
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: harder than investors, harder than attendees or our family. They

1018
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, have the emotional attachment and they ultimately got

1019
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: a worse punishment that I did.

1020
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, and you weren't solitary confinement in ten years

1021
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: and you still think they got a worse punishment for sure,

1022
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 3: for sure for ten months.

1023
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: Sorry. Okay, thank you so much, very interesting and thanks.

1024
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: I can't wait till you get the thirty four million

1025
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: back plus plus.

1026
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: Thank you