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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let's talk about how

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Speaker 1: this is impacting TikTok uses and the brands that use it.

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Speaker 1: Rachel Tipograf is founder and CEO. Make Mack is an

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Speaker 1: e commance marketing platform for multi channel brams. What did

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Speaker 1: they make of the sudden going black? Did brands pull

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Speaker 1: away from spending on TikTok? It's been wild.

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Speaker 2: January eighteenth, ten pm, New York Time, we saw TikTok

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Speaker 2: brand traffic go to zero percent. It stayed that way

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Speaker 2: for fifteen hours. Traffic started to come back January nineteenth,

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Speaker 2: twelve fifteen pm, and for about two business days it

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Speaker 2: held at zero point five percent of our traffic. Wow,

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Speaker 2: in the last two business days it has risen. It

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Speaker 2: now represents around fifteen percent of our total traffic. I've

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Speaker 2: been coming on the show now for two years. You've

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Speaker 2: heard me say TikTok typically is thirty five percent of

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Speaker 2: our traffic. Based on this meteoric rise in the last

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Speaker 2: two business days, we at MCMAC leave that we're going

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Speaker 2: to get back to normal rates on Monday.

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Speaker 3: Rachel, what is the fallout for businesses that are tied

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Speaker 3: in some way or another? Two TikTok from all the

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Speaker 3: uncertainty surrounding whether we'll continue, whether there will be a purchaser.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think the delta between fifteen and thirty

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Speaker 2: five percent is essentially all those Fortune one thousand brands

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Speaker 2: that are feeling very skittish right now with the uncertainty

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Speaker 2: and who's going to be the new parent owner, as

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Speaker 2: well as just the overall view right now of the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court. They don't want to be held liable and

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Speaker 2: typically they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on that platform.

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Speaker 2: So there is a large set right now of the

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Speaker 2: Fortune one thousand brands that are just waiting to see

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Speaker 2: what the outcome is going to be, make sure they

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Speaker 2: have to make decisions and whey to allocate Right now,

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Speaker 2: we're just seeing some of your data.

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Speaker 1: Who's winning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So these brands, they're heavily reliant obviously on their

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Speaker 2: marketing budgets. It's how they drive demand generation and sales.

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Speaker 2: So in the last say two weeks, we have watched

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Speaker 2: spend move out of TikTok as well as meta. We

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Speaker 2: can circle back on that into alphabet, which is paid search, YouTube,

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Speaker 2: DV three sixty and pinterest The reason why is that

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Speaker 2: brands are looking for reach, conversion, and brand safety. Alphabet

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Speaker 2: absolutely delivers on reach and conversion. They've made enormous efforts

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Speaker 2: around brand safety since all of the challenges YouTube had

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Speaker 2: in twenty twelve. And then Pinterest. I've been on the show,

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Speaker 2: I talked about it. It's a dark horse that no

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Speaker 2: one talks about. It's the safest place on the Internet,

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Speaker 2: and brands are moving dollars there because Pinterest can drive

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Speaker 2: conversion as well. So the big winners are Alphabet and Pinterest.

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Speaker 2: The reason why we've also seen a decline in meta

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Speaker 2: traffic in the month of January has everything to do

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Speaker 2: with the announcement Zuckerberg made two and a half weeks

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Speaker 2: ago when he announced that fact checking was going to

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Speaker 2: be removed from the platform. Brands once again fell skittish.

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Speaker 2: Brands care about their law term, brand equity, their brand safety,

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Speaker 2: and whenever a platform becomes political, they reallocate dollars to

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Speaker 2: platforms that they have more confidence in their brand safety.

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Speaker 3: Rachel, we were just talking to a prospective bidder for TikTok.

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Speaker 3: What does all this churn mean for its value and

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Speaker 3: perhaps ultimate purchase price.

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Speaker 2: I'm personally skeptical of what's going to happen with this

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Speaker 2: divestiture if it goes into the hands of a new

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Speaker 2: US parent owner. TikTok is not TikTok without the algorithm.

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Speaker 2: The community is based on the app automatically pushing you

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Speaker 2: like minded people. That's what makes TikTok so magical. With

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Speaker 2: a new US parent owner, if they can't replicate the

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Speaker 2: magic of that algorithm, I know with significant confidence people

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Speaker 2: are going to move out of TikTok. We saw it

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Speaker 2: in the last two weeks. It's so easy to build

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Speaker 2: a new community in a new app. Will be red note,

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Speaker 2: will it be blue sky, will it be pinterest on time,

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Speaker 2: will tell? And so I have trepidation on what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen. From a brand advertiser standpoint. They're going to

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Speaker 2: go wherever eyeballs and engagement are. So brands can move

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Speaker 2: their dollars very easily. I think we've all seen that

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Speaker 2: in the month of January. It's like trading on Wall

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Speaker 2: Street media buying. You can move a dollar from one

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Speaker 2: platform to the next in a second.

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Speaker 3: Rachel Tipograph, founder and CEO of Mick Mac, we thank

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Speaker 3: you