WEBVTT - Driving a Deeper Change in Aviation

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Our Bloomberg Intelligence team out with a note today. It

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<v Speaker 1>reminds us that private aviation. We know this boomed during

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<v Speaker 1>the pandemic, yet it could ebb with slowing economies and

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<v Speaker 1>higher fuel prices due to the Iran War. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>trend that could disrupt business plans for charter in fractional

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<v Speaker 1>operators and prompt some to shrink or exit the market.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious. Valan Walsh can tell us more. He's president

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<v Speaker 1>of Sentient Jet. It's known for the Jet card. It

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<v Speaker 1>offers customers a fixed number of hours of private jet travel.

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<v Speaker 1>He joins us from Quincy, Massachusetts. Alan, welcome, it's good

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<v Speaker 1>to have you here. I do want to start there

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<v Speaker 1>with that note that we got from the team earlier today.

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<v Speaker 1>How are higher fuel prices due to the Iran War

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<v Speaker 1>affecting your business?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, First, Carl, Tim, thanks for having me. I really

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate good to see you again from Marsa, being here

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<v Speaker 2>for over twenty five years and sixty seven hundred card

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<v Speaker 2>owners in our community. It's something from our specialists we

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<v Speaker 2>constantly look at as well. So overall fuel I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to say right now, not really having material impact.

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<v Speaker 1>And are you just passing are you passing on the

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<v Speaker 1>additional cost in the form of fuel search artists exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So we look at that on a monthly basis, and

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<v Speaker 2>as I said, for us, it's just a straight pass through.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not something that we look at.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's not leading to demand destruction.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not. It's not if I actually look at him.

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<v Speaker 2>In April of this year, private aviation flying in North

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<v Speaker 2>A market is actually up eleven percent year over year

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<v Speaker 2>and globally five percent year over year. So yeah, not

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<v Speaker 2>right now, not having an impact.

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<v Speaker 1>You think it's up because last year during April was

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<v Speaker 1>the tariff meltdown in the equity market. And I know

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<v Speaker 1>this is so tied to the equity markets because if

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<v Speaker 1>people feel, you know, they look at a statement, they

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<v Speaker 1>feel incredibly wealthy, they say, okay, I could justify you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a couple hours on the private jet here rather than

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<v Speaker 1>flying economy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, there's always external factors. For sure, that

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<v Speaker 2>would have been one. I mean, obviously what we're seeing

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<v Speaker 2>right now in the Middle East is another one, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they're not going to impact the commercial flying. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>tongue in cheek comment is commercial flying right now is

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<v Speaker 2>probably the best advert for private aviation because it does

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<v Speaker 2>become that reliable alternative for sure. Whateverything that we're seeing,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, people basically people are buying and manipulating their

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<v Speaker 2>time by using private aviation. So certainly is that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's cyclical factors right now, this is one.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So who's all flying? You know, remind us about

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<v Speaker 3>your demographic and kind of if those trends remain consistent.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, thanks Carl. So we have fifty seven hundred

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<v Speaker 2>card owners within our community, and the demographic ranges right

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<v Speaker 2>now from obviously personal travel, personal aviation right down to

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<v Speaker 2>some corporate travel. And the changes that you mentioned we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing too, I think kind of demographic changes, which is

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<v Speaker 2>getting younger certainly into kind of like mid to late forties.

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<v Speaker 2>But secondarily the other change that we're seeing as well

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<v Speaker 2>is multi generational family trips. You know, I think post COVID,

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<v Speaker 2>what we certainly saw as people doing that revenge travel

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<v Speaker 2>aspect of it kind of hasn't slowed down in that

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<v Speaker 2>regard the experiential part of it is certainly top of

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<v Speaker 2>mind for folks now, and you know, we see it

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<v Speaker 2>manifest especially during the seasons, the seasonality and the peak

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<v Speaker 2>travel seasons through you know, I said, multi generation, bigger,

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<v Speaker 2>further travel.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you remind everybody about the relationship that you have

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<v Speaker 1>with Flexjet and you know, the parent company, Directional Aviation Capital,

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<v Speaker 1>like just how that structure works and if you're using

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<v Speaker 1>each other's aircraft.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, thanks, so, yes, we are part of the Directional

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<v Speaker 2>Aviation family. I wouldn't say we very defined swim lanes though,

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't cross over on. You know, sister company

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<v Speaker 2>FX here is very firmly rooted in the chart market,

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<v Speaker 2>Sentient very much in the jet card market, where we

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<v Speaker 2>have our own operator network that we stringently and rigorously

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<v Speaker 2>controlled for our safety program. We probably use about thirty

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<v Speaker 2>five percent of the available network of operators across the US,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas Flex obviously very much in his own swim land

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<v Speaker 2>with its own assets that are fully focused on the

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<v Speaker 2>fractional release business.

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<v Speaker 1>So you wouldn't would you ever use Flex's assets.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, not necessarily because.

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<v Speaker 1>It's because those jets are owned by the Flexjet customers right.

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<v Speaker 2>That is correct, I said, you know, it's so different,

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<v Speaker 2>different brands within the global brand.

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<v Speaker 1>So it comes came on my radar last year because

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<v Speaker 1>El Cadderton, the private equity firm back by Bernard Arnaud,

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<v Speaker 1>the French billionaire, led an eight hundred million dollar equity

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<v Speaker 1>investment in flex jet. You don't see any of that money.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a completely separate business.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a completely separate business. And I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a much longer you know, term strategy there with the

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<v Speaker 2>flexbit flex jet business, I should say. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>from assension side, even though we're part of the same family,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's firmly rooted in the flex jet space,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and we'll see that manages over the next

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years.

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<v Speaker 3>What's the benefit of having them all, you know, as

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<v Speaker 3>invest you know, as directional as investors investing in all

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<v Speaker 3>these different properties. What's the advantage that you get being

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<v Speaker 3>under this umbrella.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's a really good question. So I think from

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<v Speaker 2>her side, Carl, it's like this. You know, when we

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<v Speaker 2>come across any type of a prospect into the private

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<v Speaker 2>aviation world, part of our role is being consultative, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, entry into that is we'll have that conversation

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<v Speaker 2>around you know, what's the problem you're trying to fix,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the solution, what's the right solution for you? And

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<v Speaker 2>what we'll do is work on a solution with you.

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<v Speaker 2>So in some cases it could be fractional, some cases

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<v Speaker 2>it's check cards, some cases it could be charter for

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<v Speaker 2>us coming together as the global brands. What it really

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<v Speaker 2>lows is we have the right solution for you, and

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<v Speaker 2>as your needs over time scale up or scale down

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<v Speaker 2>depending on your personal business situations. You can move within

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<v Speaker 2>the family for it. So it certainly provides it the

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<v Speaker 2>one stop shop. That's really advantageous because no, we know

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<v Speaker 2>each other's brands pretty intimately, and were you guys in

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<v Speaker 2>the right direction?

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<v Speaker 3>No? In fighting? You know how that is, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>wanting to be the favorite child.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, healthy coopetition, that's probably the best way to say it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>there's always the shore. I think there's some healthy competition.

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<v Speaker 2>But ultimately, do you know what, it makes us all

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<v Speaker 2>better because we learned from what each other is doing.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, of course, I mean we'll be interfew're in

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<v Speaker 2>somewhat competitive rate.

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<v Speaker 1>Allan. It's a special aviation day for us because a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of hours ago, we spoke with George Mattson over

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<v Speaker 1>a wheels Up, the CEO of the company, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>breaking like a cardinal rule here, I'm asking you to

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<v Speaker 1>weigh in on a competitor. But you knows it. Wheels

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<v Speaker 1>Up is a public traded company and has been for

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<v Speaker 1>some time, and the stock has just gotten hammered, and

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<v Speaker 1>the company has had its share of challenges which have

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<v Speaker 1>been publicly documented, and it's in the midst of a

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<v Speaker 1>turnaround right now. Just from a strategy perspective, I'm curious

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<v Speaker 1>about your view, why why that strategy hasn't necessarily worked out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a great comment, you know. For me, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>look at that with him, and I just say, the

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<v Speaker 2>way the way they're warned their businesses is certainly you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's it works for wheels Up. You know that

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing what they need to do. I think ours

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<v Speaker 2>when we when we look at it is really coming

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<v Speaker 2>from very much a position of financial strength across the brands,

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<v Speaker 2>which is which is very deliberate. So you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think George, they're working through their plan, We're working through

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<v Speaker 2>our plan. Uh, you know, And that was just probably

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you see that, how do you see sort

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<v Speaker 1>of the value proposition that you offer customers And to

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<v Speaker 1>borrow a phrase that you used earlier, like your swim

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<v Speaker 1>lane versus their swim lane and sort of where they

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<v Speaker 1>overlap and where they don't overlap, because at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, I think it's fair to say you

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<v Speaker 1>are going after similar demographic.

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<v Speaker 2>We are, we are, I know, as you know, our

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<v Speaker 2>swim Lane is really looking at the reliability, the consistency,

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<v Speaker 2>the guarantee of ail ability. You know, when we look

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<v Speaker 2>at what we're doing is our own dependability. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we we We've consistently delivered that for over twenty five years.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why we've got such a high loyalty. You know

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<v Speaker 2>within our cardolder community, they know what we're going to deliver.

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<v Speaker 2>We're there for them twenty four hours a day from

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<v Speaker 2>a service standpoint and an experience standpoint. But really what

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<v Speaker 2>we're giving them is that reliability and the confidence that

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<v Speaker 2>we're there.

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<v Speaker 1>We're speaking with Alan Walsh, president of Sentient jat joining

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<v Speaker 1>us from Quincy, Massachusetts.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, it's interesting just going back to you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Tim saying Okay, we don't like to ask you about

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<v Speaker 3>a competitor, we just head on. But having said that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know they've been doing some capital raises. Is also

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<v Speaker 3>being part of this larger company that when you do

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<v Speaker 3>need capital it's easier to access.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I mean if you look at the financial position,

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<v Speaker 2>I think of the Directional Aviation Group, it's been in

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<v Speaker 2>a very very very strong and healthy financial situation forever.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there's never been that time where there's been

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<v Speaker 2>that type of a constraint. I think if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the overall strategy on a CARL, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's really based on that is what's going to work,

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<v Speaker 2>what's best, how do we optimize it, but also take

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<v Speaker 2>advantage of, you know, the confidence of of the financial situation.

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<v Speaker 2>The company is run strategically on that. It's worked on

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<v Speaker 2>making sure that we hit our financial targets. It's made

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<v Speaker 2>hit we're exceed our financial targets, and never really compromise

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<v Speaker 2>it in any way.

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<v Speaker 3>One thing I'm curious about, and just talking with our

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<v Speaker 3>George Ferguson, who covers all the majors and the aerospace

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<v Speaker 3>sector overall, and it's a story we've talked about Alan.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like over the last couple of years, shortage

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<v Speaker 3>of pilots. Can you guys get all the pilots.

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<v Speaker 2>That you need? Yes? I mean if when I look

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<v Speaker 2>at again, so the way we work in this Carl,

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<v Speaker 2>we have an operator network that we do business with,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the pilot you know we have I suppose

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<v Speaker 2>contracts with them. They will actually go and source all

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<v Speaker 2>of the pilots. It's not been a challenge. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>certainly we have people that move back and forth between

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<v Speaker 2>the airlines for sure, what right now is going to say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's not a major challenge. The operators and

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<v Speaker 2>the contracts and relationships that we have give us what

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<v Speaker 2>we need in terms of availability. It hasn't come up

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<v Speaker 2>as a concern.

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<v Speaker 1>Alan back to the relationship with with your your sister

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<v Speaker 1>company Flex. If we think about their swim lane, would

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<v Speaker 1>that would would somebody like Sentien get would be like

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<v Speaker 1>an entry level or like a you know gateway drug

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<v Speaker 1>to private aviation for lack of a better term. And

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<v Speaker 1>then once once they're uh hooked on it, maybe they

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<v Speaker 1>and and maybe they get maybe they make more money,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe they have a big exit. Then would they move

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<v Speaker 1>to Flex because that would actually include fractional ownership and

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<v Speaker 1>that's actually more expensive product.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's it's a great question and help as well,

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<v Speaker 2>help help explain the swim lane a bit more. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we look at it and certainly people's needs do change

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<v Speaker 2>him for sure over time where they can scale up

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<v Speaker 2>and they can scale down. But if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>it in terms of the hours that you typically use

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<v Speaker 2>in a year, you know, the cardon fits right in

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<v Speaker 2>that swim line of somebody that's flying between twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>and seventy five hours per year. If you scale up

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<v Speaker 2>beyond that and who needs change and you're in you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred hours plus a year, depending on what your

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<v Speaker 2>personal needs are, the fraction is the right certainly is

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<v Speaker 2>the right fit for you in that regard because you

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<v Speaker 2>know it's going to give you the economies a scaler

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<v Speaker 2>for sure. So you know, again I go back to

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<v Speaker 2>us being the consultative mode. Is if we see somebody

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<v Speaker 2>that's graduating into that swim lane, yeah, by all means

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<v Speaker 2>we'll make sure that we broke and bridge the relationship

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<v Speaker 2>so that they can scale all right.

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<v Speaker 3>You mentioned that your demographics getting younger mid to late forties.

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<v Speaker 3>Just tell me, has Tim taken a ride on your plane?

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, highly confidential segment just between us. That's part between us.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey Alan, good to catch up. As always, be bu

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<v Speaker 3>Alan Wash, you bet take care Alan Wash, he's president

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<v Speaker 3>of Senti and Jed joining us from Boston on this Thursday,