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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Do you remember when you got your first cell phone.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: It was the late nineties and I was a grad

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Speaker 1: student back in Boston. All my friends were starting to

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Speaker 1: get mobile phones, so I wanted one too. I remember

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Speaker 1: sitting outside in Harvard Square and finally unboxing my new Nokia,

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Speaker 1: and it felt really cool, futuristic. Even I could call

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Speaker 1: my mom while walking to work, and I could text

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Speaker 1: my friends. That new Nokia made it easy to travel

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Speaker 1: and to find people while you were out in the world.

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Speaker 1: Granted it didn't have email, or maps, or music, or

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Speaker 1: a camera or even a calculator, I think, but it

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Speaker 1: was still a game changer even today. I remember that

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Speaker 1: first ring tone very fondly. But if I were to

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Speaker 1: show one of my Yale students that Noki today, they'd

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Speaker 1: probably be very confused. It's easy to forget just how

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Speaker 1: much and how quickly mobile phones have transformed and how

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Speaker 1: they've transformed us. Today's young people can't comprehend what life

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Speaker 1: was like without infinite access to information and more streaming

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Speaker 1: content than anyone could possibly consume. So for this final

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Speaker 1: episode in our series on Happier Parenting, we're going to

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Speaker 1: turn to how this massive technological shift has affected our

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Speaker 1: children and what caregivers can do to offer guidance and

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Speaker 1: support amidst this avalanche of information overload. And for this episode,

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Speaker 1: I knew there was one expert I had to speak with.

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Speaker 2: In twenty ten, kids mostly have flip phones, we call

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Speaker 2: them millennials, But by twenty fifteen kids have smartphones with

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Speaker 2: social media. They can be on for ten fifteen hours

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Speaker 2: a day, and we call them gen z.

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Speaker 1: Social psychologist Jonathan Heite is a world renowned expert in

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Speaker 1: how technology and especially social media is impacting children. In

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, he published a number one New York

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Speaker 1: Times Best say, The Anxious Generation, how the great rewiring

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Speaker 1: of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness. His thesis,

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Speaker 1: the rapid evolution in how kids interact with technology has

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Speaker 1: contributed to the alarming rise in mental illness among young people.

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Speaker 2: Teen mental health was actually pretty stable from the late

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Speaker 2: nineties through twenty ten, even twenty eleven. It's really no

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Speaker 2: sign up or down. You know, it moves around, but

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Speaker 2: there's no trend, And then all of a sudden twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, it's as though someone flipped on a light switch. Somewhere,

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Speaker 2: and girls all around the Western world, especially in the

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Speaker 2: English speaking countries, began cutting themselves. They were more anxious.

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Speaker 2: So it wasn't just self report, it wasn't just oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm so open and honest because we can

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Speaker 2: talk about it now on social media. It was also

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Speaker 2: hospitalizations for self harm, and it was suicide. And it

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Speaker 2: wasn't just America. Very similar patterns in Canada, Australia, UK,

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Speaker 2: New Zealand, Scandinavia, Europe overall, although not in every country

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Speaker 2: in Europe. So something big was happening. And then Gene

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Speaker 2: Twankie was the first to stick her neck out and

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Speaker 2: she wrote an article The Atlantic gave it the title

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Speaker 2: have Smartphones destroyed a generation? And she had like three

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Speaker 2: years of solid data showing things going up, and I

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Speaker 2: thought at the time, just three years, like this could

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Speaker 2: turn around next year. And she was so roundly attacked

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Speaker 2: by other psychologists who said, it's just correlation, it's just

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Speaker 2: a trend, and nothing's happening. So she really took a

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Speaker 2: lot of flack, but she was right. She was absolutely right,

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Speaker 2: and it's gotten worse and worse and worse since then.

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Speaker 2: This is not caused by Covid. Everything I say in

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Speaker 2: the Anxious Generation, everything Gene was talking about, it was

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Speaker 2: all there. By twenty nineteen, Covid made it a little worse.

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Speaker 2: But we're kind of just returning to the trend line.

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Speaker 1: What were some of the other cultural changes that were

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Speaker 1: happening and how childhood played out around that time.

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Speaker 2: So my story in the book is that this is

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Speaker 2: a tragedy in two acts. In Act one, we lose

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Speaker 2: the play based childhood. Kids who grew up in the

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Speaker 2: eighties still played outside, they still went out on supervised

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Speaker 2: they rode their bicycles. So in the nineties is when

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Speaker 2: we lose the play based childhood. That's the first act

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Speaker 2: of the tragedy. And in Act two, twenty ten to

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Speaker 2: twenty fifth, we get the phone based childhood. So in

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Speaker 2: my previous book, The Coddling of the American Mind, we

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Speaker 2: went deep into play and the importance of play. And

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Speaker 2: we're mammals, and anybody who knows any mammals knows that

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Speaker 2: they play when they're young. If you've ever had a

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Speaker 2: puppy or a kitten, they want to play, play, play, play, play,

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Speaker 2: I mean, and they have to. It's a biological imperative.

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Speaker 2: Their genes don't tell the brain how to grow. It

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Speaker 2: just kind of starts things rolling and then the neurons

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Speaker 2: have to wire up. But with feedback from the environment.

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Speaker 2: That's why kids will do something over and over and

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Speaker 2: over again, and so it's crucial that they play. They

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Speaker 2: have a lot of independent play, and we took that away.

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Speaker 2: We took that away in the nineties, completely insane.

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Speaker 1: And this is a change that was not necessarily caused

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Speaker 1: by the tech companies per se. This was a change

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Speaker 1: that was caused by parents. When did adults start over

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Speaker 1: parenting and what happened?

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Speaker 2: So I have done this demonstration all over the country

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Speaker 2: and around Europe. I simply asked the audience at what

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Speaker 2: age were you let out? At what age could you

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Speaker 2: go out on your bicycle, walk to a friend's house,

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Speaker 2: go to a store, no adult with you, and certainly

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Speaker 2: all over a mind America. The answer was six to eight,

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Speaker 2: around first grade, second grade. Certainly by third grade everyone

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Speaker 2: was out. Now. I grew up during the Great crime Wave.

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Speaker 2: I mean there was a lot of crime in the

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Speaker 2: seventies and eighties, but we all went out and played

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Speaker 2: gen X and the older millennials, they were all out

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Speaker 2: age six to eight. But then you look at gen z.

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Speaker 2: If you were born in nineteen ninety five and you

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Speaker 2: grew up mostly in the early two thousands, everyone says

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Speaker 2: ten to twelve, it's three or four years later. So

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Speaker 2: why did this happen? There were some horrible abductions that

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Speaker 2: were widely publicized. I'm sitting here in Greenwich Village, New York,

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Speaker 2: about four blocks south of me, is where Aton Pates

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Speaker 2: was abducted six years old, wanted to walk to the

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Speaker 2: bus stop by himself. Never came back. This was nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy nine, I think. But it wasn't that one that

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Speaker 2: did it, because there wasn't cable TV very much then.

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Speaker 2: It was really the abduction of Adam Walsh and Florida,

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Speaker 2: another six year old abducted from in front of a

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Speaker 2: store his father created I think America's most wanted and

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Speaker 2: he put out the idea that you must never take

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Speaker 2: your eyes off your child or he will be abducted.

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Speaker 2: It's because of him we get the milk cartons. You know,

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Speaker 2: I grew up with kids staring back at you on

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Speaker 2: the milk cart missing. Now almost all the missing kids

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Speaker 2: were abducted by the non custodial parent or some other

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Speaker 2: family member. There is hardly any kidnapping or abduction in

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Speaker 2: this country, but we freaked out about it, and we

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Speaker 2: began locking our kids up, or at least not letting

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Speaker 2: them out to have independent It used to be you

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Speaker 2: could kind of count on all the adults your kids

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Speaker 2: out riding his bicycle. You know, I knew, like if

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Speaker 2: I wiped out on my bicycle was actually hurt. You know,

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Speaker 2: my friend could just like go knock on a door

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Speaker 2: and they call my mom and she'd come pick me up.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think people think that. How they think

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Speaker 2: they have to be there all the time for their kid.

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Speaker 2: So for a lot of reasons, we stopp trusting our neighbors,

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Speaker 2: especially in the nineties. But we said, no, no, it's

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Speaker 2: too dangerous to go outside. You'll be abducted. You know.

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Speaker 2: Sit here, Oh look, we have a new computer. Oh look,

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Speaker 2: it connects to the internet. And the kids loved it,

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Speaker 2: and the parents loved it because the kids are safe

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Speaker 2: sitting in their room on a computer all day, talking

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Speaker 2: with strangers, perfectly safe. So that's what we did, and

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Speaker 2: mental health didn't change. Actually, the millennials who grew up

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Speaker 2: that way are fine. So we thought this was all okay.

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Speaker 2: What we didn't realize was that the early Internet, where

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Speaker 2: you sit at your parents' computer for a couple hours

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Speaker 2: a day, I mean, you can't take the computer to class,

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Speaker 2: you can't take it into the bathroom. A couple hours

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Speaker 2: a day you're online. It was decentralized. There was no Facebook,

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Speaker 2: there was no one company controlling things. That actually was

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Speaker 2: pretty marvelous and fun. And the millennials look back on

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Speaker 2: that fondly. We didn't realize that in the two thousands

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Speaker 2: things really changed. So early Facebook and my Space and

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Speaker 2: friends or those were not bad. They were ways to

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Speaker 2: connect with people.

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Speaker 3: That was all it was.

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Speaker 1: And honestly, you couldn't be on friends dirt that long

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Speaker 1: as a child of the nineties, I know, like you

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Speaker 1: could hop on it for a second, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to be pinging in your pocket and stealing your attention.

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Speaker 3: And so on. That's right.

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Speaker 2: So to be doing that quasi social thing for a

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Speaker 2: couple hours a day is fine. You know, a little

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Speaker 2: bit of television is fine. The transition happens when you

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Speaker 2: get the iPhone. That's two thousand and seven. But at

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Speaker 2: first it's just a digital Swiss army knife. There's no

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Speaker 2: push notification, there's no app store, there's no social media,

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Speaker 2: and kids don't have it until twenty ten. Eleven is

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Speaker 2: when kids start getting it. In twenty ten, you get

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Speaker 2: the first friend facing camera, and you get the creation

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Speaker 2: of Instagram, and now you get increasingly kids have high

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Speaker 2: speed Internet. Because you remember when you had to pay

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Speaker 2: for your text like what a couple cents every text?

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Speaker 2: So you wouldn't send thousands of texts a day, You

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Speaker 2: couldn't spend sixteen hours a day on. But between twenty

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Speaker 2: ten and twenty fifteen, I call it the great rewiring

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Speaker 2: of childhood. Half of our kids, beginning in the late

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Speaker 2: twenty tens, half of American teenagers say that they are

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Speaker 2: online almost constantly. If you're waiting for the elevator, the

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Speaker 2: phone comes out. If you're in the elevator, the phone

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Speaker 2: comes out. If you're online anywhere, the phone comes out.

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Speaker 2: If you're sitting at lunch there's a loll in the conversation,

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Speaker 2: the phone comes out. If you're sitting on the toilet,

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Speaker 2: the phone comes out. The phone is always with you.

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Speaker 2: It takes up every spare moment because the amount they

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Speaker 2: have to process, the amount of stuff coming in the

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Speaker 2: videos they have to watch to keep up. It fills

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Speaker 2: up every moment.

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Speaker 1: And you've talked in your book about these four specific

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Speaker 1: harms that this phone based childhood came with. Let's kind

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Speaker 1: of walk through them. The first is one that you

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Speaker 1: talk about in terms of the social deprivation that comes

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Speaker 1: from me in a phone based childhood. In some ways

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Speaker 1: this is ironic, right, because our phones are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be connecting us. You could imagine our phones kind of

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Speaker 1: increase connection. But what do the data really show here?

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Speaker 2: There's the American Time Youth Survey, so we track what

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Speaker 2: people do at minute by minute and for all ages

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Speaker 2: down to I think fifteen, And what the data clearly

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Speaker 2: show is that when you look at the fifteen to

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Speaker 2: twenty four age group, but when they aggregate, how much

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Speaker 2: time do you spend with friends each day outside of

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Speaker 2: school and work? So this is not school or work,

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Speaker 2: just hanging out with friends getting together. How much time?

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Speaker 2: And it used to be more than two hours a

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Speaker 2: day for the young people, and then like thirty forty

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Speaker 2: minutes for everybody who's older. All the older groups, they

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Speaker 2: have jobs, they have families, they're not hanging out with

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Speaker 2: their friends, and it's dropping a little bit in the

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Speaker 2: early two thousands, and that's you know, the Internet, and

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Speaker 2: you begin to get multiplayer video games. But it plunges

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Speaker 2: after about twenty twelve because once everyone gets their iPhone,

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Speaker 2: now everything moves online and now you can just as

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Speaker 2: well go home and lie on your side for three

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Speaker 2: hours and do this scrolling and this wiping, the texting

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Speaker 2: and things like that. So a plummet's down almost to

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Speaker 2: where the adults are by twenty nineteen. Of course they're

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Speaker 2: connecting with hundreds of people. But if you're connecting with

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Speaker 2: hundreds of people, then you have no real time for

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Speaker 2: close friends. That's when we see the breakout of loneliness

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Speaker 2: boys and girls. They become so lonely once they get

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Speaker 2: on their phones.

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Speaker 1: And why is this sort of in real life social connection,

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Speaker 1: or at least in real time social connection, so much

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Speaker 1: more important than the connection is happening online, especially for

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Speaker 1: growing kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, here I would return to our status's evolved organisms.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you go back to child development and infancy,

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Speaker 2: one of the most important things that infants are doing

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Speaker 2: socially is eye contact and then synchrony, and that takes

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Speaker 2: a long time. And it's really pleasurable for the kid

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Speaker 2: and for the parent. So there's all this programming for

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Speaker 2: face to face synchronous communication, and so you know, a

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Speaker 2: zoom call is we're doing right now. This is you know,

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Speaker 2: at least as good as an old telephone call when

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Speaker 2: you and I were young. It's better in some ways.

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Speaker 2: The synchronous art is okay, there are the uses for that,

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Speaker 2: but the asynchronous stuff has very little value. Like someone

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Speaker 2: posts something and then you like it or you comment

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Speaker 2: on it. It doesn't bring you together. It encourages everyone

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Speaker 2: to display. It turns kids into brand managers. And if

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Speaker 2: you're constantly trying to manage your brand, you're not connecting,

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Speaker 2: You're not really bonding with other kids. I just saw

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Speaker 2: a video in which teenager was saying, you know, I

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Speaker 2: sit down to watch a TV program and before I

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Speaker 2: know it, I'm doing things on my phone. Like the multitasking.

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Speaker 2: It just takes away from everything. There's an amazing phrase

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Speaker 2: from Sherry Turkle at MIT. She says, because of our phones,

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Speaker 2: because of our technology, we are forever elsewhere. We're never

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Speaker 2: fully present with the people that we're with. But we

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Speaker 2: evolved for these intense small group communities. So this is

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Speaker 2: a gigantic experiment we've performed on kids in theory back

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven. In theory it might have worked,

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Speaker 2: but now it's clear it backfired catastrophically, and we have

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Speaker 2: a generation around the world that has poor social skills,

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Speaker 2: difficulty making eye contact, higher levels of anxiety, poor sexual development,

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Speaker 2: cognitive development test scores are going down around the world.

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Speaker 2: People call me alarmist, but if there is really something

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Speaker 2: going wrong, then it's right to raise the alarm.

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Speaker 1: I love the Shelley Trickle quote. And that gets to

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Speaker 1: maybe a second harm that we know comes from a

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Speaker 1: phone based childhood, which is this idea of attention fragmentation.

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Speaker 1: How do phones mess with our attention? And why is

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Speaker 1: it so bad when it's happening at the kind of

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Speaker 1: ages we're seeing it.

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Speaker 2: One of the most sort of subtle and advanced cognitive

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Speaker 2: abilities that humans have. It's called executive function, and toddlers

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Speaker 2: don't have much of it. But we learn how to

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Speaker 2: stay focused on a task. We think, Okay, I have

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Speaker 2: a goal. What do I need to do to execute

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Speaker 2: the goal? Your brain has to have sustained attention on

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Speaker 2: that over time as you are pursuing the goal. And

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Speaker 2: if you can do that, then you will be successful

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Speaker 2: in life. You will be able to pursue goals. But

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Speaker 2: what if you have a goal and then you start

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Speaker 2: pursuing it, but oh, look at that, Well what's that?

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Speaker 2: Oh this is fun? Oh let's do that, and you

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Speaker 2: never get to your goal. This is what's happening. I

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Speaker 2: was just listened to a podcast. So Scott Galloway and

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Speaker 2: Richard Reeves are two people who've been writing about boys.

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Speaker 2: I think the problem for boys here with attention fragmentation

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Speaker 2: is even more serious. For girls girls anxiety depression, they

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Speaker 2: have huge increase. That's sort of the focused social media

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Speaker 2: anxiety depression. But I think attention fragmentation at behavioral addiction

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Speaker 2: is really more central for the boys. Boys are more

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Speaker 2: attracted to video games, which gives you quick dopamine. But

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Speaker 2: when you get lots of quick dopamine, that means that

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Speaker 2: your brain, which has adapted to the high levels now

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Speaker 2: is craving it and everything is boring. And so if

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Speaker 2: you're a boy and you've been on video games since

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Speaker 2: you were four or five, those neurons seeking.

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Speaker 1: Each other out.

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Speaker 2: They didn't wire up properly and it's very hard for

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Speaker 2: you to make a goal and then pursue it over

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Speaker 2: the course of ten minutes or an hour. So the

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Speaker 2: cognitive fragmentation, even though I didn't focus on in the book,

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Speaker 2: I'm now seeing, my God, this is possibly worse than

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Speaker 2: the mental health. I mean, if you have a whole

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Speaker 2: generation that can't pay attention for sustained periods. And again

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Speaker 2: they're exceptions, but I think we can say half of

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Speaker 2: the generation, half say they're online almost constantly. So if

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Speaker 2: half of humanity can't pay attention, this boats really badly

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Speaker 2: for the future of innovation, work, marriage, everything that we

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Speaker 2: expect people to be able to do.

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Speaker 1: It kind of connects with the social deprivation in a

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Speaker 1: really interesting way, right, because obviously social connection has some friction.

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Speaker 1: There are some boring downtimes with people in real life.

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Speaker 2: And you have to work it through, you have to

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Speaker 2: stick with it.

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Speaker 1: It can be annoying to push through the awkwardness of

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Speaker 1: in person interactions, especially when you've got a fire hose

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Speaker 1: of information and excitement waiting for you in your pocket.

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Speaker 1: So how do you get a kid to put down

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Speaker 1: this mesmerizing tool and notice what's going on in the

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Speaker 1: real world? After the break, we'll dive into other ways

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Speaker 1: a phone based childhood may be reshaping our kids development,

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Speaker 1: and here are some effective strategies for making it better.

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Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be right back. Psychologies. Jonathan Heights's

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Speaker 1: book The Anxious Generation argues that the rise of smartphones,

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Speaker 1: social media, and overparenting has triggered a cataclysmic shift in

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Speaker 1: how young people experience childhood and a corresponding surge in

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Speaker 1: mental illness. Before the break, we covered two of the

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Speaker 1: four ways a phone based childhood has negatively affected our kids.

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Speaker 1: Is deprived them socially and fragmented their attention. So what's

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Speaker 1: harm Number three? More screen time means less shut eye.

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Speaker 2: So sleep. There was a drop in the nineties minute

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Speaker 2: levels off. I don't know if that was the early Internet.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what that was, but it levels off

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Speaker 2: in the two thousands, then it drops again after like

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve or so. Certainly this correlational research showing that

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Speaker 2: people are heavy users have more sleep problems, especially when

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Speaker 2: they use social media or browsing the internet. Those are

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Speaker 2: the two that are especially correlated with poor sleep. If

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Speaker 2: you're doing that just before bedtime, I'm in a big

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Speaker 2: debate with some other researchers to say it's just correlational,

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Speaker 2: there's no evidence of causality. But you know, if you

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Speaker 2: have a technology that is causing on average, let's say

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Speaker 2: something like half an hour less slip, certainly for heavy users,

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Speaker 2: and teenagers already aren't getting of sleep, So if we

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Speaker 2: make it worse by half an hour, you know that's

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Speaker 2: another ram cycle. You're going to have kids being more irritable,

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Speaker 2: it'll be harder for them to focus, more anxious, and

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Speaker 2: then that you get a vicious cycle, because then that

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Speaker 2: pushes you into more anxiety and depression. Now you're doing

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Speaker 2: badly in your classes, and you were having conflicts with

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Speaker 2: your friends, and you mul this over at night, you

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Speaker 2: can't sleep, so to stop your racing thoughts, you watch TikTok.

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Speaker 2: So you get this vicious cycle. And there's just no

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Speaker 2: dispute among the scientific community that adolescence needs sleep for

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Speaker 2: brain development. And if you're depriving a whole planet full

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Speaker 2: of teenagers of sleep, this has to have a variety

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Speaker 2: of physical, cognitive, and emotional consequences.

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Speaker 1: Which I think gets to the fourth phone based harm,

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Speaker 1: which is that kids wind up showing these addictive behaviors

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Speaker 1: when it comes to their phone. I think you had

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Speaker 1: a story about your own daughter with Candy Crush, if

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Speaker 1: you want to share.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my god, it was. This was I guess

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeens before I was working on on this and

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Speaker 2: my family we took a winter break trip to this

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Speaker 2: lovely farm, Liberty Hill Farm in Vermont, and my daughter

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Speaker 2: was in the next room at breakfast time and she

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Speaker 2: called out to me, and this is an exact quote, Daddy,

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Speaker 2: can you take the iPad away from me? I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to take my eyes off it, but I can't. And

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Speaker 2: she's about six years old. There these games are designed

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Speaker 2: explicitly to retain their users. It's a very competitive environment.

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Speaker 2: Most of these apps, once for kids, have an advertising

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Speaker 2: base model, and so the more you keep them on,

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Speaker 2: the better for the company. And you know, again, I'm

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Speaker 2: in this debate with the skeptics who say, well, it's

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Speaker 2: not true addiction, we shouldn't call it addiction. Well, gambling

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Speaker 2: is an addiction as long as you have compulsive use,

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Speaker 2: often against your better judgment. It sometimes causes you to lie.

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Speaker 2: And if slot machine gambling can be addictive, well, so

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Speaker 2: much of the iPhone was literally modeled after slot machines. Literally,

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Speaker 2: I mean like the thing where you know, you pull

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Speaker 2: down kind of bounces, that was really modeled after the

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Speaker 2: slot machine. I mean, we have age limits all over

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Speaker 2: our sisciety for four reasons. If something is about graphic

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Speaker 2: sex or violence, if it's addictive, or if there's physical

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Speaker 2: or psychological harm. Those four reasons we put age limits

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Speaker 2: on unless it's online. And then we say whatever, companies,

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Speaker 2: go for it. You can do whatever you want to

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Speaker 2: a child as long as the child's old enough to lie.

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Speaker 2: If the child's old enough to say she's thirteen or eighteen,

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter, and we can't sue them. They can show

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Speaker 2: whatever they want to our kids.

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Speaker 3: Tough luck.

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Speaker 2: But you know what, wait, can I turn this around.

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Speaker 2: I'm always looking for criticisms. I want to know what

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Speaker 2: I missed because there are some psychologists whore skeptical. First,

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Speaker 2: tell me what you think of the general argument that

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Speaker 2: it was the technology that phones the social media.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I mean, I think you cannot explain

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Speaker 1: the hockey stick curve as you've called it without turning

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Speaker 1: to that. But the question is, like, are there other

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Speaker 1: factors going on as well? But I think the timing

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Speaker 1: of it just looks like it absolutely has to be

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Speaker 1: social media. I talk a lot about social media in

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Speaker 1: my course, right Instagram, TikTok. Think what's fascinating about TikTok

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Speaker 1: in particular, we talked a little bit before about addiction,

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Speaker 1: is that this is the first social media tool where

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Speaker 1: I've seen students articulate the fact that they feel addicted.

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Speaker 1: I mean, your daughter had this, maybe for candy crush.

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Speaker 1: The games might look different, right, but I'd never heard

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Speaker 1: college students talk about how Facebook felt so addictive, even

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Speaker 1: Instagram Snapchat a little. But with TikTok, they talk about

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Speaker 1: this all the time. Oh my god, So to my students,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So let me make a major point here.

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Speaker 1: We all agree social media is not monolithic. There are

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Speaker 1: different kinds of social media, different effects Instagram. The main

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Speaker 1: harm that I see is that Instagram causes chronic social comparison,

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Speaker 1: especially for girls, especially about face and bought. The correlational

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Speaker 1: studies clearly show girls and Instagram depression anxiety. That's a

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Speaker 1: much tighter correlation than anything else. I would urge everybody

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Speaker 1: don't let your daughters, or don't let anybody go on

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Speaker 1: Instagram until they're an adult. Snapchat, I don't think causes

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Speaker 1: depression anxiety. Snapchat connects you to strangers who are trying

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Speaker 1: to extort you, sell you drugs, and even sell you guns.

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Speaker 1: Many horrible, horrible things happen to kids on there. Snapchat,

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Speaker 1: we know from memos that have come out as the

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Speaker 1: States are suing them. Snapchat gets ten thousand reports of

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Speaker 1: sextortion from American kids each month. Wow, every month, ten thousand,

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Speaker 1: and that's just the ones that are reported to them.

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Speaker 1: How the great majority are not reported to them. So

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Speaker 1: you invent an app that has disappearing pictures students feel

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Speaker 1: safe for young people feel safe for sending a nude

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Speaker 1: of themselves. It turns out it's not a beautiful young

429
00:20:37,636 --> 00:20:40,036
Speaker 1: woman wanting to flirt with you. It's a sextortion ring

430
00:20:40,116 --> 00:20:42,716
Speaker 1: lookated somewhere in West Africa. And now if you don't

431
00:20:42,716 --> 00:20:44,916
Speaker 1: pay them right away, they will send your photo out

432
00:20:44,956 --> 00:20:47,396
Speaker 1: to everyone in your contacts, and a lot of boys

433
00:20:47,476 --> 00:20:50,956
Speaker 1: kill themselves. That's not mistaken correlation for causation. Their parents

434
00:20:50,996 --> 00:20:53,716
Speaker 1: are not wrong that Snapchat is what killed their kid.

435
00:20:54,236 --> 00:20:58,756
Speaker 1: So again, you got Instagram, depression anxiety and girls Snapchat

436
00:20:59,076 --> 00:21:02,356
Speaker 1: dangerous activities, interacting with strangers that ruins your life, even

437
00:21:02,356 --> 00:21:04,476
Speaker 1: if it's fun most of the time. And then we

438
00:21:04,596 --> 00:21:07,196
Speaker 1: got TikTok. And what I'm coming to see is that

439
00:21:07,316 --> 00:21:10,636
Speaker 1: TikTok is so bad for you attention and so addictive.

440
00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:13,196
Speaker 1: I think nobody should use it. Certainly, no one under

441
00:21:13,236 --> 00:21:15,196
Speaker 1: eighteen should use it. Yeah, but it doesn't just waste

442
00:21:15,196 --> 00:21:17,036
Speaker 1: your time. It changes your brain because now you need

443
00:21:17,076 --> 00:21:20,356
Speaker 1: that quick stimulation. So now let's get to some solutions.

444
00:21:20,596 --> 00:21:23,316
Speaker 1: If you're a parent who's worried about the phone based childhood,

445
00:21:23,596 --> 00:21:25,036
Speaker 1: what can you do to fix things?

446
00:21:25,476 --> 00:21:28,156
Speaker 2: So the first thing is to realize that you're not alone.

447
00:21:28,756 --> 00:21:30,796
Speaker 2: If you feel like you're alone, then it's going to

448
00:21:30,796 --> 00:21:34,316
Speaker 2: be very hard to solve this because you'll think, what

449
00:21:34,396 --> 00:21:36,516
Speaker 2: do I do. You know, everyone else is giving their

450
00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:39,156
Speaker 2: kid the phone. My daughter comes home, you know, from

451
00:21:39,236 --> 00:21:42,516
Speaker 2: fifth grade, and she says, Mom, everyone else has a smartphone.

452
00:21:42,596 --> 00:21:44,876
Speaker 2: I'm the only one who doesn't have one. I'm being

453
00:21:44,956 --> 00:21:47,516
Speaker 2: left out. And so that's why we keep giving our

454
00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:50,076
Speaker 2: kids phones and social media at a younger and younger age,

455
00:21:50,116 --> 00:21:52,396
Speaker 2: because it's a collective action problem and we are not

456
00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:53,916
Speaker 2: able to solve it. So it goes down younger and

457
00:21:53,996 --> 00:21:56,996
Speaker 2: younger ages. And so the solution to a collective action

458
00:21:57,076 --> 00:21:59,956
Speaker 2: problem is collective action. We got trapped into this by

459
00:21:59,956 --> 00:22:01,636
Speaker 2: the companies, but if we act together, we can get

460
00:22:01,676 --> 00:22:03,316
Speaker 2: out of it. With four simple norms here they are

461
00:22:04,196 --> 00:22:07,316
Speaker 2: no smartphone till age fourteen or high school really in America.

462
00:22:07,756 --> 00:22:10,196
Speaker 2: Give them a flip phone or a phone watch. They

463
00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:11,876
Speaker 2: can call in text if you're sending them out into

464
00:22:11,876 --> 00:22:14,076
Speaker 2: the world, but don't give them the entire Internet and

465
00:22:14,156 --> 00:22:16,356
Speaker 2: all the strangers and all the apps and all the addiction.

466
00:22:16,836 --> 00:22:20,716
Speaker 2: Don't do that until high school minimum. Second, no social

467
00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:23,596
Speaker 2: media until sixteen. They know exactly how to get your

468
00:22:23,636 --> 00:22:26,796
Speaker 2: kid's brain before the prefrontal cortex is developed, so don't

469
00:22:26,876 --> 00:22:29,756
Speaker 2: let them have your kid until at least sixteen. The

470
00:22:29,796 --> 00:22:32,836
Speaker 2: third is phone free schools, and this is just a must.

471
00:22:33,036 --> 00:22:36,396
Speaker 2: If your child is able to have their phone on them,

472
00:22:36,596 --> 00:22:38,956
Speaker 2: in their pocket or even their backpack, but especially pocket

473
00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:41,876
Speaker 2: during the day, it's very likely your child is not

474
00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:44,196
Speaker 2: being educated as well as they should. And this, I

475
00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:46,556
Speaker 2: think is one of the reasons that test scores were

476
00:22:46,556 --> 00:22:48,676
Speaker 2: going up for forty years until twenty twelve, and they've

477
00:22:48,716 --> 00:22:50,996
Speaker 2: been going down, not just in America but around the

478
00:22:51,076 --> 00:22:54,476
Speaker 2: world test scores going down. Kids can't pay attention to

479
00:22:54,476 --> 00:22:56,156
Speaker 2: class so much else is going on in their pocket.

480
00:22:56,316 --> 00:22:59,436
Speaker 2: And then the final norm is far more independence, free play,

481
00:22:59,476 --> 00:23:02,356
Speaker 2: and responsibility in the real world. We have to get

482
00:23:02,396 --> 00:23:06,036
Speaker 2: back to the understanding that our children are young mammals

483
00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:09,836
Speaker 2: who need to develop by engaging with the environment without supervision.

484
00:23:09,996 --> 00:23:12,036
Speaker 2: Now you know two, three, four years old, Yeah, you

485
00:23:12,076 --> 00:23:13,916
Speaker 2: need to supervise them because they'll do all kinds of

486
00:23:13,916 --> 00:23:16,516
Speaker 2: stupid things. But around the world, one thing I learn

487
00:23:16,516 --> 00:23:19,116
Speaker 2: from cultural psychology seven or eight is called the age

488
00:23:19,116 --> 00:23:21,916
Speaker 2: of social sense. That's the age in which many societies

489
00:23:21,916 --> 00:23:23,716
Speaker 2: give their kids like here, take the sheep down to

490
00:23:23,756 --> 00:23:26,356
Speaker 2: the river, let them drink and bring them back. You

491
00:23:26,396 --> 00:23:29,236
Speaker 2: can begin being responsible. So I think we need a

492
00:23:29,276 --> 00:23:31,636
Speaker 2: sort of a norm by age eight your kids should

493
00:23:31,636 --> 00:23:35,236
Speaker 2: have some kind of independence, maybe not wandering around town alone,

494
00:23:35,516 --> 00:23:37,676
Speaker 2: but like out playing with some friends without a parent

495
00:23:37,876 --> 00:23:40,156
Speaker 2: watching them. Because when the parents are watching what a

496
00:23:40,236 --> 00:23:43,116
Speaker 2: kids learn. They learn how to appeal to the adult

497
00:23:43,396 --> 00:23:47,556
Speaker 2: to punish the other kid, which is a skill for authoritarianism.

498
00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:50,876
Speaker 2: Whereas if kids have no rule maker above them, they

499
00:23:50,916 --> 00:23:53,796
Speaker 2: have to work out the conflicts they have to negotiate.

500
00:23:53,876 --> 00:23:57,036
Speaker 2: They have to adjudicate, they have to forgive, and those

501
00:23:57,036 --> 00:23:59,876
Speaker 2: are skills of democracy. So we have to give kids

502
00:23:59,956 --> 00:24:02,876
Speaker 2: back a childhood worth having. Those four norms. Parents can

503
00:24:02,996 --> 00:24:04,196
Speaker 2: roll back the vone based childhood.

504
00:24:04,596 --> 00:24:06,756
Speaker 1: It would be easier if some hero could jump into

505
00:24:06,756 --> 00:24:09,796
Speaker 1: a Dolorean, travel back to the late nineties and stop

506
00:24:09,836 --> 00:24:13,596
Speaker 1: social media from devolving into a polarized miss and maybe

507
00:24:13,596 --> 00:24:17,596
Speaker 1: prevent tech designers from adding those front facing cameras. Sadly,

508
00:24:17,876 --> 00:24:20,156
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen, but that doesn't mean that

509
00:24:20,196 --> 00:24:24,036
Speaker 1: society is simply forced to accept the great rewiring. There's

510
00:24:24,036 --> 00:24:26,636
Speaker 1: still a lot parents can do to make things better.

511
00:24:27,236 --> 00:24:31,516
Speaker 1: To recap here are Jonathan's four suggestions. Delay smartphones until

512
00:24:31,516 --> 00:24:35,636
Speaker 1: at least age fourteen, hold off on social media until sixteen,

513
00:24:36,156 --> 00:24:39,476
Speaker 1: advocate for phone free schools, and give kids more freedom

514
00:24:39,596 --> 00:24:43,996
Speaker 1: and independence in the real world. But these solutions require widespread,

515
00:24:44,116 --> 00:24:47,476
Speaker 1: coordinated action, which means you might be asking what can

516
00:24:47,516 --> 00:24:49,556
Speaker 1: I do as a parent right now to support my

517
00:24:49,636 --> 00:24:53,596
Speaker 1: child in the face of such potentially harmful technology. After

518
00:24:53,636 --> 00:24:56,116
Speaker 1: the break, we'll speak to an expert who's thought carefully

519
00:24:56,116 --> 00:24:59,156
Speaker 1: about essential conversations you can have with your kids to

520
00:24:59,196 --> 00:25:02,356
Speaker 1: help them navigate the modern digital landscape. We'll hear how

521
00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:06,036
Speaker 1: parents can support kids' technology use while protecting their mental

522
00:25:06,076 --> 00:25:10,156
Speaker 1: health and fostering a sense of safety. The Happiness Lab

523
00:25:10,236 --> 00:25:20,356
Speaker 1: will be right back. If you've ever wondered whether it's

524
00:25:20,396 --> 00:25:24,196
Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate for your toddler to watch Coco Melon, or say,

525
00:25:24,276 --> 00:25:26,476
Speaker 1: for your team to play Call of Duty, you might

526
00:25:26,476 --> 00:25:28,676
Speaker 1: be familiar with the work of our next.

527
00:25:28,396 --> 00:25:31,756
Speaker 3: Expert, someone names Jill Murphy. And I am the Chief

528
00:25:31,796 --> 00:25:35,276
Speaker 3: Content Officer at Common Sense Media, which really just means

529
00:25:35,436 --> 00:25:37,516
Speaker 3: I oversee all of our ratings and reviews.

530
00:25:37,876 --> 00:25:42,316
Speaker 1: Common Sense Media is an awesome nonprofit advocacy organization known

531
00:25:42,356 --> 00:25:46,476
Speaker 1: for their reviews of children's entertainment and TV shows. These days,

532
00:25:46,636 --> 00:25:50,796
Speaker 1: the organization also offers research backed guides for digital parenting.

533
00:25:51,276 --> 00:25:54,876
Speaker 1: These new guides have become essential resources for parents navigating

534
00:25:54,956 --> 00:25:57,876
Speaker 1: day to day technology questions for kids of all ages.

535
00:25:58,396 --> 00:26:02,116
Speaker 3: When you think about younger children, so maybe you're distracted

536
00:26:02,116 --> 00:26:03,876
Speaker 3: by something, you hand over the phone and with the

537
00:26:03,956 --> 00:26:07,076
Speaker 3: lunch videos, and I think that right there, that handover

538
00:26:07,156 --> 00:26:11,156
Speaker 3: moment is at first introduction to you know, I just

539
00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:12,956
Speaker 3: need to distract my kids so I can get this

540
00:26:12,996 --> 00:26:16,156
Speaker 3: other thing done. But what it's become is a distraction

541
00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:20,396
Speaker 3: in their life, and we are just all distracted all

542
00:26:20,436 --> 00:26:20,836
Speaker 3: the time.

543
00:26:21,356 --> 00:26:23,676
Speaker 1: Jill believes the most important thing parents can do to

544
00:26:23,716 --> 00:26:27,156
Speaker 1: protect their kids is to have honest conversations about technology,

545
00:26:27,396 --> 00:26:30,356
Speaker 1: and Jill says it's best to start those conversations earlier

546
00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:33,156
Speaker 1: than you think, even with a baby or toddler who's

547
00:26:33,196 --> 00:26:35,636
Speaker 1: curious about what you're looking at on your screen.

548
00:26:36,036 --> 00:26:38,516
Speaker 3: Narrate what you're doing. Actually let your kid know what

549
00:26:38,556 --> 00:26:41,236
Speaker 3: you're doing within this tiny screen so they have a

550
00:26:41,316 --> 00:26:45,276
Speaker 3: sense of what's going on because they have no idea.

551
00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:49,516
Speaker 1: As children get older, Jill recommends creating a family media agreement.

552
00:26:49,956 --> 00:26:52,996
Speaker 1: Common Sense offers templates for these contracts on their website,

553
00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:55,716
Speaker 1: but the key is to simply start a dialogue. Whether

554
00:26:55,756 --> 00:26:57,796
Speaker 1: it's written down or not, it's.

555
00:26:57,636 --> 00:27:01,196
Speaker 3: Really a conversation. When you hear the title, it sounds

556
00:27:01,196 --> 00:27:03,916
Speaker 3: a little idealistic, but I think what they can be

557
00:27:04,036 --> 00:27:06,636
Speaker 3: used for is really anything. Whether it's a kid is

558
00:27:06,676 --> 00:27:08,916
Speaker 3: ready to start going on YouTube, but I want to

559
00:27:08,876 --> 00:27:11,556
Speaker 3: say some boundaries and guidelines. It just guides you through

560
00:27:11,596 --> 00:27:15,556
Speaker 3: a conversation around how you can start laying out what

561
00:27:15,756 --> 00:27:18,076
Speaker 3: is and isn't okay. And then with older kids it

562
00:27:18,156 --> 00:27:20,556
Speaker 3: might be they're getting a phone, what's okay for them

563
00:27:20,596 --> 00:27:23,276
Speaker 3: to do? What isn't okay for them to do. It's

564
00:27:23,276 --> 00:27:25,316
Speaker 3: a little bit of a negotiation, a little bit of

565
00:27:25,356 --> 00:27:28,436
Speaker 3: a contract where they may say, and this is for

566
00:27:28,556 --> 00:27:30,876
Speaker 3: my own life, I want to have social media. Is

567
00:27:30,876 --> 00:27:32,916
Speaker 3: it okay if I go on maybe just for thirty minutes?

568
00:27:33,436 --> 00:27:35,676
Speaker 3: And then we say you can have this app, but

569
00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:37,276
Speaker 3: we're not going to get you on this app yet.

570
00:27:37,316 --> 00:27:41,316
Speaker 3: And so it's just a discussion around where your rules

571
00:27:41,316 --> 00:27:45,676
Speaker 3: are and holds everybody to a set of shared principles.

572
00:27:45,996 --> 00:27:50,196
Speaker 3: The challenge with that is it needs to be revisited often.

573
00:27:50,716 --> 00:27:54,156
Speaker 3: And I can speak from experience where we did it

574
00:27:54,196 --> 00:27:56,436
Speaker 3: when my older daughter got a thund My kids are

575
00:27:56,476 --> 00:27:59,116
Speaker 3: fifteen and twelve. Two girls live.

576
00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:00,716
Speaker 4: In the dream in the night now, all at the

577
00:28:00,756 --> 00:28:02,996
Speaker 4: same time we did it when my older daughter got

578
00:28:03,036 --> 00:28:07,076
Speaker 4: a phone, and it was probably a good year before

579
00:28:07,076 --> 00:28:09,156
Speaker 4: we really revisited it.

580
00:28:08,996 --> 00:28:11,476
Speaker 3: Is something that we need to encourage families to revisit

581
00:28:11,956 --> 00:28:15,636
Speaker 3: quite regularly, almost like your quarterly goals, like what is

582
00:28:15,676 --> 00:28:18,516
Speaker 3: it and what needs to be adjusted? And then the

583
00:28:18,596 --> 00:28:21,716
Speaker 3: run chanelle of why is something getting adjusted? You know,

584
00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:25,076
Speaker 3: the underlying factor here is their development, What are they

585
00:28:25,156 --> 00:28:27,876
Speaker 3: ready for We use their age as a guide, but

586
00:28:27,916 --> 00:28:29,676
Speaker 3: it's not always a one size fits all.

587
00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:32,476
Speaker 1: And so what wound up in your family media agreement?

588
00:28:32,556 --> 00:28:33,756
Speaker 1: Like what were some of the things that you have

589
00:28:33,836 --> 00:28:34,996
Speaker 1: to negotiate with your kids to that?

590
00:28:35,636 --> 00:28:38,956
Speaker 3: Definitely social media. My older daughter got a phone when

591
00:28:38,996 --> 00:28:42,916
Speaker 3: she is going into middle school. Biggest regret of my life,

592
00:28:43,356 --> 00:28:45,596
Speaker 3: and my husband is always kind of like, shouldn't you

593
00:28:45,596 --> 00:28:48,076
Speaker 3: have known better? Sure, I should have known better. For

594
00:28:48,196 --> 00:28:50,636
Speaker 3: lots of reasons, we let her get a phone that

595
00:28:50,676 --> 00:28:52,836
Speaker 3: we were not letting her get on social media, so

596
00:28:52,876 --> 00:28:56,356
Speaker 3: that was the stop gap. It's just too much access.

597
00:28:56,516 --> 00:28:58,756
Speaker 3: And then that was really the big like aha moment

598
00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:00,716
Speaker 3: for me. I'd say about six to eight months in.

599
00:29:01,636 --> 00:29:04,996
Speaker 3: It's a computer, She's just online and she has access

600
00:29:04,996 --> 00:29:08,916
Speaker 3: to literally anything, even if it's a news story around

601
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:12,196
Speaker 3: school shooting, Like do I want her really seeing that

602
00:29:12,356 --> 00:29:17,116
Speaker 3: right now without conversation from els? Does she need notifications

603
00:29:17,156 --> 00:29:19,716
Speaker 3: coming up in her day around what's going run in

604
00:29:19,716 --> 00:29:23,036
Speaker 3: the world. And parental controls was something that happened a

605
00:29:23,076 --> 00:29:26,316
Speaker 3: little bit later. I've always been a little like around

606
00:29:26,316 --> 00:29:28,876
Speaker 3: parental controls because it's it's a little bit of a

607
00:29:28,916 --> 00:29:34,716
Speaker 3: false promise. And there's a ton of videos online about

608
00:29:34,716 --> 00:29:37,916
Speaker 3: how to get around literally any any of the parental

609
00:29:37,916 --> 00:29:39,836
Speaker 3: controls that are out there, there is a hack to

610
00:29:39,876 --> 00:29:43,636
Speaker 3: get around them. More recently, we had started using a

611
00:29:43,676 --> 00:29:47,276
Speaker 3: parental control to just completely shut down the phone and

612
00:29:47,316 --> 00:29:49,476
Speaker 3: to just go to a dumb phone at certain times

613
00:29:49,476 --> 00:29:52,156
Speaker 3: of the day except for texting, Like she could text

614
00:29:52,156 --> 00:29:54,036
Speaker 3: on her phone, she could call on her phone, but

615
00:29:54,156 --> 00:29:56,716
Speaker 3: otherwise everything was turned off. So it's like during the

616
00:29:56,716 --> 00:30:00,636
Speaker 3: school day at night. And when I first started doing it,

617
00:30:00,996 --> 00:30:03,636
Speaker 3: my daughter was like what the heck, Like, why would

618
00:30:03,676 --> 00:30:06,956
Speaker 3: you do that? But after a couple of weeks of

619
00:30:06,996 --> 00:30:10,796
Speaker 3: doing this consistently, she started asking me to turn it

620
00:30:10,836 --> 00:30:12,996
Speaker 3: off at night. She was like, can you just turn

621
00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:15,076
Speaker 3: this off? Don't forget to turn it off, Like she

622
00:30:15,276 --> 00:30:17,516
Speaker 3: knows that it's not something that she can easily do

623
00:30:17,596 --> 00:30:20,076
Speaker 3: on her own, which is obviously the goal that I mean,

624
00:30:20,116 --> 00:30:23,676
Speaker 3: they'll struggle with that, and it just allows her to

625
00:30:23,716 --> 00:30:26,796
Speaker 3: focus in another place, in this case, on her sleep.

626
00:30:26,876 --> 00:30:30,076
Speaker 3: But even during the school day or like her homework time,

627
00:30:30,476 --> 00:30:32,476
Speaker 3: she knows like, Okay, it's going to go off between

628
00:30:32,836 --> 00:30:36,156
Speaker 3: three and six. So I just feel like it's really

629
00:30:36,236 --> 00:30:39,756
Speaker 3: helped her take back some of her time. There's something

630
00:30:39,756 --> 00:30:42,596
Speaker 3: about it that's provided her a little bit of like okay, good,

631
00:30:42,636 --> 00:30:45,876
Speaker 3: like a little relief from feeling like she has to

632
00:30:45,916 --> 00:30:49,996
Speaker 3: be on. And I think that because we've discussed it

633
00:30:50,076 --> 00:30:52,876
Speaker 3: so much, I love that she's kind of taken this

634
00:30:52,916 --> 00:30:55,156
Speaker 3: approach of like, Okay, I need it off, but I

635
00:30:55,356 --> 00:30:58,076
Speaker 3: might not have the self control at fifteen to do

636
00:30:58,156 --> 00:30:59,196
Speaker 3: it and stick with it.

637
00:30:59,396 --> 00:31:01,876
Speaker 1: And you've talked about some of these essential conversations, some

638
00:31:01,916 --> 00:31:03,796
Speaker 1: of these elements that you might want to get in there,

639
00:31:03,836 --> 00:31:05,196
Speaker 1: and I know one of the big ones is this

640
00:31:05,276 --> 00:31:07,996
Speaker 1: idea of a digital footprint. What are the conversations that

641
00:31:08,036 --> 00:31:10,436
Speaker 1: you need to have about a child's digital footprint.

642
00:31:11,076 --> 00:31:13,876
Speaker 3: I think kids are very quick to be like less

643
00:31:14,116 --> 00:31:17,076
Speaker 3: concerned about that sort of thing until probably high school

644
00:31:17,116 --> 00:31:20,396
Speaker 3: and they're thinking about college or jobs, really having them

645
00:31:20,516 --> 00:31:25,996
Speaker 3: understand the trail that they're leaving behind, that it's all findable,

646
00:31:26,876 --> 00:31:29,836
Speaker 3: the way that other kids are getting screenshot and screen

647
00:31:29,876 --> 00:31:34,276
Speaker 3: grab conversations and use that information or share it, whether

648
00:31:34,316 --> 00:31:38,076
Speaker 3: it's in a gossipy way or a dangerous way. And

649
00:31:38,116 --> 00:31:40,636
Speaker 3: then in addition to that, of course images that they're sharing,

650
00:31:40,836 --> 00:31:43,716
Speaker 3: personal information that they may be sharing, who they're actually

651
00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:45,196
Speaker 3: sharing it with and when they or not they know

652
00:31:45,276 --> 00:31:48,636
Speaker 3: that person. And the trick with that is when is

653
00:31:48,636 --> 00:31:51,956
Speaker 3: it okay to have that conversation. I think that that

654
00:31:52,196 --> 00:31:56,916
Speaker 3: Twain set is very quick to say, no, it's a kid,

655
00:31:56,996 --> 00:31:59,036
Speaker 3: I'm talking to this kid. They friended me on my

656
00:31:59,196 --> 00:32:03,516
Speaker 3: blocks or they friended me on discord. They're less inclined

657
00:32:03,556 --> 00:32:06,916
Speaker 3: to be skeptical that who they're talking to may actually

658
00:32:06,916 --> 00:32:09,436
Speaker 3: be somebody that is not what they say say. They

659
00:32:09,436 --> 00:32:13,756
Speaker 3: are so starting to lay all that groundwork, I think

660
00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:18,276
Speaker 3: early and often without a fearful approach, but just as

661
00:32:18,276 --> 00:32:22,556
Speaker 3: an awareness, just like don't cross the street until the

662
00:32:22,596 --> 00:32:25,356
Speaker 3: button says walk, and even when it does say walk,

663
00:32:25,596 --> 00:32:27,396
Speaker 3: look to your left to make sure no one's taking

664
00:32:27,436 --> 00:32:30,156
Speaker 3: a right turn, and make sure you have eye contact

665
00:32:30,156 --> 00:32:32,356
Speaker 3: with the drivers. And you know, there's a lot of

666
00:32:32,436 --> 00:32:35,836
Speaker 3: elements to consider before you go ahead and cross the street.

667
00:32:36,036 --> 00:32:38,556
Speaker 3: And I think we need to be thinking about that

668
00:32:38,636 --> 00:32:40,556
Speaker 3: multi pronged approach in conversation.

669
00:32:41,276 --> 00:32:43,716
Speaker 1: We're doing this kind of boundary setting with our kids

670
00:32:43,756 --> 00:32:45,956
Speaker 1: anyway and other domains where they need to be safe

671
00:32:46,836 --> 00:32:48,596
Speaker 1: across the street. We kind of need to get to

672
00:32:48,596 --> 00:32:51,156
Speaker 1: them how to cross the digital street as yeah, yeah,

673
00:32:51,236 --> 00:32:52,956
Speaker 1: One of the things common says has noted that you

674
00:32:53,036 --> 00:32:55,636
Speaker 1: need to get across the digital street are conversations about

675
00:32:55,676 --> 00:32:59,436
Speaker 1: reality versus perception. And I think this specifically comes up

676
00:32:59,516 --> 00:33:00,836
Speaker 1: when it comes to social media.

677
00:33:00,996 --> 00:33:03,236
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that, Well, I mean there's

678
00:33:03,276 --> 00:33:05,436
Speaker 3: this idea of perfection, right, and then it's talked a

679
00:33:05,436 --> 00:33:09,316
Speaker 3: lot about now with Instagram in particular, but what people

680
00:33:09,316 --> 00:33:12,716
Speaker 3: are putting out versus what's really going on, and that

681
00:33:12,916 --> 00:33:16,956
Speaker 3: comes down to, you know, embedded products in a video

682
00:33:17,116 --> 00:33:19,436
Speaker 3: that I kid not watch something and think that, oh,

683
00:33:19,556 --> 00:33:21,356
Speaker 3: just this girl that I watch and I love her,

684
00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:24,556
Speaker 3: and she's buying this product and she loves it, and

685
00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:27,316
Speaker 3: I want to have that product too, and explaining to

686
00:33:27,316 --> 00:33:30,236
Speaker 3: her what product placement is like and that she's paid

687
00:33:30,276 --> 00:33:33,756
Speaker 3: for this video and that isn't actually just her saying that,

688
00:33:33,916 --> 00:33:38,356
Speaker 3: and that's not necessarily her real life. She's not necessarily

689
00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:40,236
Speaker 3: getting ready in the morning and looking like that and

690
00:33:40,276 --> 00:33:44,156
Speaker 3: going somewhere. And then there's just this front that kids

691
00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:45,996
Speaker 3: are putting out there, teens are putting out there, and

692
00:33:46,036 --> 00:33:47,796
Speaker 3: we know that adults are putting out there as well.

693
00:33:48,236 --> 00:33:52,716
Speaker 3: Perfect house, perfect, whole video, perfect dorm room, perfect, whatever

694
00:33:52,756 --> 00:33:55,796
Speaker 3: it might be, and just projecting an image that doesn't

695
00:33:55,796 --> 00:33:59,716
Speaker 3: really portray real life, and it sets up a false aspiration.

696
00:34:00,276 --> 00:34:03,276
Speaker 3: And I think as adults, we also know once you're

697
00:34:03,316 --> 00:34:05,716
Speaker 3: in that vacuum, it's really hard to break out. And

698
00:34:05,796 --> 00:34:09,116
Speaker 3: I'm a fully developed adult, and so when our kids

699
00:34:09,156 --> 00:34:12,396
Speaker 3: kids aren't even developed in a place where they can

700
00:34:12,556 --> 00:34:16,956
Speaker 3: make that distinction between reality and fiction, we're just putting

701
00:34:17,036 --> 00:34:19,476
Speaker 3: them in front of so much information at one time.

702
00:34:19,796 --> 00:34:21,796
Speaker 3: How do they parse it and how does it help

703
00:34:22,156 --> 00:34:23,196
Speaker 3: shape their reality.

704
00:34:23,636 --> 00:34:25,476
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of parents out there wondering

705
00:34:25,516 --> 00:34:27,476
Speaker 1: what they need to be paying attention to to figure

706
00:34:27,476 --> 00:34:29,716
Speaker 1: out if their teen or their child might be struggled

707
00:34:29,716 --> 00:34:32,596
Speaker 1: with technology. What things do you suggest that parents look

708
00:34:32,636 --> 00:34:33,036
Speaker 1: out for.

709
00:34:34,316 --> 00:34:38,636
Speaker 3: There is this slow drip of content and what kids

710
00:34:38,676 --> 00:34:41,396
Speaker 3: are being exposed to, and again, how that's kind of

711
00:34:41,396 --> 00:34:44,396
Speaker 3: shaping their reality and their self identity and self worth.

712
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:47,236
Speaker 3: And if they feel that they can't measure up to

713
00:34:47,316 --> 00:34:50,156
Speaker 3: what they're watching or compete with it or compared to it.

714
00:34:50,676 --> 00:34:53,076
Speaker 3: And if you are predisposed, which I think is an

715
00:34:53,076 --> 00:34:56,796
Speaker 3: important element for parents to consider, is depression in my family,

716
00:34:56,916 --> 00:34:59,396
Speaker 3: is anxiety in my family? Have we dealt with other

717
00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:02,316
Speaker 3: mental illness in the family? That's an important factor to

718
00:35:02,356 --> 00:35:06,236
Speaker 3: take into consideration. My daughter is anxious, Do I really

719
00:35:06,276 --> 00:35:09,316
Speaker 3: want her to be put into a scenario where that

720
00:35:09,396 --> 00:35:12,156
Speaker 3: might be like heightened in some way? Do I want

721
00:35:12,156 --> 00:35:13,956
Speaker 3: to put her in a situation where it's heightened but

722
00:35:14,436 --> 00:35:17,116
Speaker 3: she's got the tools and knows how to calm herself.

723
00:35:17,436 --> 00:35:19,676
Speaker 3: Some of it's preparation, but I think some of it

724
00:35:19,716 --> 00:35:22,876
Speaker 3: is about you really have to have this knowledge of

725
00:35:22,916 --> 00:35:26,076
Speaker 3: your kid and what they how they interact and feel

726
00:35:26,196 --> 00:35:27,796
Speaker 3: and function in the world.

727
00:35:28,436 --> 00:35:30,356
Speaker 1: And it seems like some of it is also including

728
00:35:30,396 --> 00:35:33,116
Speaker 1: your children in these conversations. One of the things that

729
00:35:33,156 --> 00:35:35,676
Speaker 1: comes since media recommends even in the case some of

730
00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:38,516
Speaker 1: these mental health concerns, is not for parents to be like, well,

731
00:35:38,516 --> 00:35:41,516
Speaker 1: I'm worried about anxiety provoking informations all just ban phones

732
00:35:41,636 --> 00:35:44,276
Speaker 1: or like put parental controls in. It really is about

733
00:35:44,316 --> 00:35:46,996
Speaker 1: empowering your kids to notice when they're going through that

734
00:35:47,076 --> 00:35:49,356
Speaker 1: stuff and to have conversations about what they can do

735
00:35:49,436 --> 00:35:50,356
Speaker 1: to do better.

736
00:35:50,436 --> 00:35:53,196
Speaker 3: Right, And I think we're having those conversations at ages

737
00:35:53,236 --> 00:35:55,436
Speaker 3: that we probably wouldn't expect to have them. And I

738
00:35:55,436 --> 00:35:57,476
Speaker 3: think a lot of parents are still feeling like I

739
00:35:57,476 --> 00:35:59,436
Speaker 3: don't need to worry about that until they're in high school,

740
00:35:59,556 --> 00:36:02,876
Speaker 3: no take an action. So what you're going to say

741
00:36:02,876 --> 00:36:05,196
Speaker 3: to your six or seven year old compared to what

742
00:36:05,236 --> 00:36:07,196
Speaker 3: you're going to say to your sixteen or seventeen year old,

743
00:36:07,236 --> 00:36:09,636
Speaker 3: it's going to be very different. But the subject of

744
00:36:09,676 --> 00:36:12,956
Speaker 3: mental health can be talked about at any age, at

745
00:36:12,996 --> 00:36:15,316
Speaker 3: any point. And you know, for your younger kids, it's

746
00:36:15,676 --> 00:36:18,156
Speaker 3: if you see that they might be acting out after

747
00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:20,516
Speaker 3: they have played a game, you know they have a

748
00:36:20,556 --> 00:36:22,836
Speaker 3: stronger reaction of playing that kind of game than they

749
00:36:22,876 --> 00:36:25,476
Speaker 3: do to just a board game. Those are the kinds

750
00:36:25,476 --> 00:36:26,956
Speaker 3: of things that you want to just keep an eye

751
00:36:27,036 --> 00:36:30,596
Speaker 3: on and not just wait and watch, but maybe after

752
00:36:30,676 --> 00:36:33,316
Speaker 3: once or twice, say what is it about this game?

753
00:36:33,396 --> 00:36:34,756
Speaker 3: Or can I play this game with you? Or can

754
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:37,116
Speaker 3: I watch you play this game? You don't always have

755
00:36:37,196 --> 00:36:39,636
Speaker 3: to jump in with all the answers, which I have

756
00:36:39,716 --> 00:36:42,796
Speaker 3: to remind myself all the time. It's about kind of

757
00:36:43,236 --> 00:36:47,356
Speaker 3: observing and letting them process and letting them articulate that

758
00:36:47,516 --> 00:36:51,516
Speaker 3: to you what's going on, and then kind of layering in,

759
00:36:51,636 --> 00:36:53,956
Speaker 3: like I see that you're angry about this game, what

760
00:36:54,196 --> 00:36:57,276
Speaker 3: is it about it? It's really getting you? Maybe that's

761
00:36:57,316 --> 00:37:00,516
Speaker 3: when you might make decisions to Okay, he's really reacting

762
00:37:00,556 --> 00:37:01,516
Speaker 3: running strongly to this.

763
00:37:01,996 --> 00:37:03,236
Speaker 1: I might need to learnit.

764
00:37:03,276 --> 00:37:05,356
Speaker 3: How much time they're spending on a particular game if

765
00:37:05,396 --> 00:37:07,516
Speaker 3: they can't start to manage it a little bit or

766
00:37:07,556 --> 00:37:10,636
Speaker 3: balance it. And I think that parenting, we're doing that

767
00:37:10,676 --> 00:37:12,716
Speaker 3: with lots of stuff. Yeah, they can play that friend. Okay,

768
00:37:12,996 --> 00:37:16,356
Speaker 3: that friend's starting to be not the best friend. Maybe

769
00:37:16,396 --> 00:37:18,796
Speaker 3: we should pull that. Maybe we'll make a play yet

770
00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:21,756
Speaker 3: with this other friend. She's only eating fast food. We

771
00:37:21,796 --> 00:37:24,756
Speaker 3: need to balance that out with maybe some vegetables. We're

772
00:37:24,756 --> 00:37:27,756
Speaker 3: doing it all the time. It's the same when it

773
00:37:27,796 --> 00:37:31,276
Speaker 3: comes to digital media. It's just we don't have the insight.

774
00:37:31,396 --> 00:37:34,516
Speaker 3: It takes more work because again, they're behind this screen.

775
00:37:34,716 --> 00:37:37,636
Speaker 3: So that is one element that I think when we

776
00:37:37,756 --> 00:37:40,516
Speaker 3: decide to get phones and tablets, putting them in a

777
00:37:40,556 --> 00:37:44,316
Speaker 3: common area, making sure that we can see over their

778
00:37:44,356 --> 00:37:47,356
Speaker 3: shoulder what they're doing on the screen. We all have

779
00:37:47,436 --> 00:37:49,436
Speaker 3: to be a little bit more mindful when we hand

780
00:37:49,476 --> 00:37:52,716
Speaker 3: those devices over, whether it's theirs to own or just

781
00:37:52,796 --> 00:37:56,116
Speaker 3: to borrow ours for the moment, about what's going on

782
00:37:56,836 --> 00:38:02,396
Speaker 3: before during afterwards. There's a lot of considerations to think

783
00:38:02,396 --> 00:38:06,036
Speaker 3: about when we're making these decisions about what our kids'

784
00:38:06,396 --> 00:38:08,876
Speaker 3: mental well being is going to look like, and there's

785
00:38:09,356 --> 00:38:12,836
Speaker 3: so many outlying factors that we cannot control, but being

786
00:38:12,876 --> 00:38:15,756
Speaker 3: present and being available for them to come back to

787
00:38:15,956 --> 00:38:19,756
Speaker 3: and share some of that information is really essential as well.

788
00:38:20,236 --> 00:38:22,356
Speaker 1: All this goes to say, if you want your kids

789
00:38:22,396 --> 00:38:24,596
Speaker 1: to be safe online, you need to talk to them

790
00:38:24,636 --> 00:38:27,556
Speaker 1: about new media and technology, and you need to start

791
00:38:27,556 --> 00:38:30,836
Speaker 1: earlier than you think. Consider making an official family media

792
00:38:30,916 --> 00:38:34,036
Speaker 1: agreement that can help foster the sort of dialogue you

793
00:38:34,116 --> 00:38:36,916
Speaker 1: need to return to regularly. Pay attention to how your

794
00:38:36,996 --> 00:38:40,236
Speaker 1: child reacts to different technologies, but don't just assume you

795
00:38:40,356 --> 00:38:44,116
Speaker 1: know how it's affecting them. Ask questions, listen closely, and

796
00:38:44,156 --> 00:38:47,636
Speaker 1: then adjust your approach as needed. None of these strategies

797
00:38:47,636 --> 00:38:50,636
Speaker 1: will fully roll back the phone based childhood that Jonathan

798
00:38:50,676 --> 00:38:53,116
Speaker 1: Hite talked about earlier, but if you can help your

799
00:38:53,196 --> 00:38:56,516
Speaker 1: child think critically about digital technology, you're well on your

800
00:38:56,516 --> 00:39:00,636
Speaker 1: way to fostering a bit more flourishing and happiness. Finally,

801
00:39:00,876 --> 00:39:03,676
Speaker 1: give yourself some self compassion as a parent helping to

802
00:39:03,756 --> 00:39:07,836
Speaker 1: raise the next generation in these changing technological times. Plus,

803
00:39:07,876 --> 00:39:10,436
Speaker 1: if you want more strategies, there's still time to check

804
00:39:10,476 --> 00:39:13,116
Speaker 1: out my free online course The Science of Well Being

805
00:39:13,156 --> 00:39:16,636
Speaker 1: for parents. To learn more, just head to doctor Laurisanto's

806
00:39:16,796 --> 00:39:21,956
Speaker 1: dot com slash parents. That's Dr Laisanto's dot com slash parents.

807
00:39:23,316 --> 00:39:26,476
Speaker 1: That concludes our series on Happier parenting, But dot to

808
00:39:26,516 --> 00:39:29,516
Speaker 1: worry is The Happiness Lab will be back soon. We'll

809
00:39:29,556 --> 00:39:32,676
Speaker 1: be shifting gears with a new series exploring creative coping

810
00:39:32,716 --> 00:39:37,156
Speaker 1: strategies for handling life's current baels. Think job loss, illnesses,

811
00:39:37,516 --> 00:39:41,636
Speaker 1: heartbreak tragedies. When times get really hard, we need creative

812
00:39:41,676 --> 00:39:44,276
Speaker 1: ways to cope, so we'll be looking at the weird

813
00:39:44,356 --> 00:39:48,156
Speaker 1: and wonderful ways people find relief and the science behind

814
00:39:48,276 --> 00:39:51,076
Speaker 1: why these strategies work. So be sure to come back

815
00:39:51,116 --> 00:39:53,596
Speaker 1: soon for the next episode of The Happiness Lab with

816
00:39:53,756 --> 00:39:55,196
Speaker 1: me Doctor Lauri Santo's