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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Sophie, I I have some shocking news

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Speaker 2: for you, some information that's just come in through the wire.

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Speaker 2: Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Are you are

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Speaker 2: you prepared to take in some information that may hurt you?

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Speaker 1: You can see me and I'm sitting.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's simply behind the Bastard, Sophie. The podcast

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Speaker 2: that we do for a living every week, that's what

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Speaker 2: we're doing this week. Are you are you able? Are

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Speaker 2: you able to handle this? Are you in an emotional

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Speaker 2: state where you're prepared?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I live for it.

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Speaker 2: You live for it? Well, we all live. We live

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Speaker 2: because of it. We pay, we pay our bills because

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Speaker 2: of which is different from living for something. But you

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Speaker 2: know what I live for, Sophie, do tell introducing the

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Speaker 2: guests to this podcast and nothing else. So every moment

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Speaker 2: before and after this has just been just been an

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Speaker 2: unbroken string of pain, just just endless and ceaseless. But

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Speaker 2: for this one moment where I introduced our guest for today,

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Speaker 2: Danish Schwartz, host of Hoax and the Noble Blood Podcast.

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Speaker 2: For that one moment, I feel bliss, Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 2: and you are so good at it. Thank you thank you,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. That was an

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Speaker 3: excellent introduction.

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Speaker 2: I know, back to pain, nothing but pain from here on.

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Speaker 1: App Before we get to the pain, do you want

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Speaker 1: to tell the good folks about your new show Hoax?

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Speaker 2: Exclamation exclamation point load bearing?

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Speaker 3: It is a load bearing exclamation point, and if you

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Speaker 3: don't include it, and that is not canonically the name

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Speaker 3: of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: And let's be fair, if you're a good writer, every

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Speaker 2: exclamation point you use is load bearing.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I was really taught that no unnecessary exclamation points.

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Speaker 3: I'm not throwing them around willy nilly unless they're in

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Speaker 3: an email with someone that I want to like me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course, or a text

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Speaker 2: and you're drunk. Yeah, I do that a lot, Just so,

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Speaker 2: just exclamation points.

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Speaker 3: Hoax is a new show that I'm doing with my

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Speaker 3: good friend Lizzie Logan. He's a comedy writer. I come

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Speaker 3: from a history back background, and every other week we

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Speaker 3: swap off, bringing each other stories of exciting, unbelievable, fantastic,

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Speaker 3: strange hoaxes throughout history. My hoaxes are more of the

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Speaker 3: historical bent Lizzie's are slightly modern. I talked about in

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Speaker 3: our first episode the cuttingly Fairies, which were two young

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Speaker 3: girls took pictures of what they said were fairies that

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Speaker 3: convinced Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in our next episode story

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Speaker 3: Yes it's nuts right.

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Speaker 2: It was so easy to trick too. People were so

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Speaker 2: much easier to trick back then.

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Speaker 1: He was.

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Speaker 3: You think the guy who wrote Cherlock Holmes would have

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Speaker 3: had like a little bit more in deductive reasoning skills.

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Speaker 2: But no, no, absolutely not. Look, that's the problem with

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Speaker 2: writing a super genius character is the writer is never

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Speaker 2: as smart as the character.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing. And he probably thought he was a genius.

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Speaker 3: And but my friend Lizzie also loves hoaxes like balloon Boy,

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Speaker 3: more modern hoaxes, and we just get into these conversations

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Speaker 3: about why we believe things that aren't true, which feels,

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Speaker 3: unfortun very pertinent these days. So listen, listen to hoax

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Speaker 3: excavation point. Excellent point, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot about people talk about, oh, if

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Speaker 2: you could travel back in time with like a modern

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Speaker 2: guns or something, and you could change you know, this

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Speaker 2: battle where the world went in a wrong direction and no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: go back in time with fucking photoshop. I could travel

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Speaker 2: back of photoshop and like a photo printer, I could

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Speaker 2: change everything. I could really fuck some shit up.

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Speaker 3: Honestly. Yeah, people believed a lot of stuff, but here's

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Speaker 3: the really messed up stuff. Unfortunately, people believe a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff today too.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's almost the only thing people believe is bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that is the thing we sort of

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Speaker 3: are learning going back and examining these hoaxes. We're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: people did believe a lot of bullshit, but kind of

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Speaker 3: no more than people believe bullshit today.

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Speaker 2: No, there's two things that are important to understand, which

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Speaker 2: is that people are as dumb as they ever were,

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Speaker 2: and people are no dumber than they ever were. Right,

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Speaker 2: it's a really good both those things that are wise

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Speaker 2: you're going to understand history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's partly relevant to the subject of our

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Speaker 2: episode this week, because this week we are talking about

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Speaker 2: the most evil football player of all time. Okay, and

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Speaker 2: I got it. This is European football. It'd be a

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Speaker 2: different guy if we were talking about the American football right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there were some evil American football players.

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Speaker 2: No, and if we're doing the most Evil Man in Football.

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Speaker 2: Obviously this would be our eight parter a on Jerry Jones,

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Speaker 2: but I simply don't have the time to write forty

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Speaker 2: thousand words on Jerry Jones this week. We'll get to

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Speaker 2: it one of these days when he finally shuffles off

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Speaker 2: this mortal coil. No, we are talking about what we

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Speaker 2: Americans call soccer player, although I'm going to use the

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Speaker 2: term football since we're exclusively talking about France. So our

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Speaker 2: subject for this week is a sports star, one of

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Speaker 2: the very first football stars in European street, because the

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Speaker 2: sport is still like a fairly new idea at this point,

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Speaker 2: is like a major thing, right, because we're this guy's

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Speaker 2: career happens right, not only as football is taking off

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Speaker 2: in Europe, but as they're going from like the only

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Speaker 2: people who can play at what we would call a

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Speaker 2: professional level or amateurs that's amateurism is a big thing

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Speaker 2: in sporting. This is why it's a big thing in

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Speaker 2: the Olympics. Right, The idea that like, well, these people

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing it for a living, right, this is

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Speaker 2: so this guy's career is like right at the transition

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Speaker 2: of that to like we're paying guys to play this

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Speaker 2: motherfucking sport. Right, And this guy is a footballer who

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Speaker 2: becomes a brutal enforcer for the SS during the Nazi

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Speaker 2: occupation of France. A real piece of shit. Okay, his name.

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Speaker 3: So when you say evil, you mean like like evil

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Speaker 3: evil evil evil.

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Speaker 2: No, we're not just talking about this isn't just a

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Speaker 2: guy who like cheated at some sports games, you know,

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Speaker 2: this is just a guy who was like personally abusive. No,

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Speaker 2: this guy was evil evil. I mean it's evil to

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Speaker 2: be personally abusive. This guy's like evil on a level

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Speaker 2: where the number of people he's affecting is much higher. Right,

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Speaker 2: This guy really went for it in terms of human evil.

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Speaker 2: His name was Alexander villa Plaine, and he often you

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Speaker 2: can find a number of articles that are like the

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Speaker 2: most evil football star ever, Like that's the titles will

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Speaker 2: be variations of that sentiment. And while he was a

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Speaker 2: right bastard, there's also a lot of bastardury behind how

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Speaker 2: he came into being in this world. Because in order

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Speaker 2: to properly set up the context of who this guy

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Speaker 2: is and what the culture he comes out of, we

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Speaker 2: have to start way before his birth. In nineteen oh five,

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Speaker 2: because while Alexander was born a subject of France, he

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Speaker 2: was not born French in the sense that like a

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Speaker 2: lot of people who grew up in France would have

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Speaker 2: seen him as right, and he wouldn't have primarily identified

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Speaker 2: as a French citizen. He came into this world in Algiers,

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Speaker 2: the capital of Algeria, which since eighteen thirty had been

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Speaker 2: a colonial possession of France. When the French invaded in

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Speaker 2: eighteen thirty, Algeria had been a possession of the Ottoman

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Speaker 2: Sultan for a four hundred years, right, so from like

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Speaker 2: the fourteen hundreds up until the French come in, Algeria

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Speaker 2: is owned by the Ottomans. They're ruled by the Sultan.

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Speaker 2: But if you look at a map, it's pretty far

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Speaker 2: away from Turkey, and the Ottoman Empire not great at

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Speaker 2: running shit by the eighteen hundreds, you know, like there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of distance and like a lot of kind

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Speaker 2: of ailing empires. They more or less let local rulers

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Speaker 2: kind of have a free hand in things as long

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Speaker 2: as they got some taxes, and so yeah, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of that situation, you know, it's being ruled the way

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Speaker 2: California was by the government in DC in the early

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Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, where it's like, yeah, it's part of the US,

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Speaker 2: but not really.

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Speaker 3: Are like the American colonies for a little bit at

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Speaker 3: the front end exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's another really good like comparison where you're

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Speaker 2: generally left alone as long as they get their kind

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Speaker 2: of do right. And Algiers is a regency. It's ruled

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Speaker 2: by a day, which is like dey is like the

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Speaker 2: name of the kind of ruler who's governing Algiers. There's

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Speaker 2: a couple other cities, Tunis and Tripoli that are also

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Speaker 2: regencies ruled by days, and these guys are under theoretical

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Speaker 2: control of the sultan. However, in reality the days were

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Speaker 2: more or less on their own, independent from each other

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Speaker 2: and mostly from the Sultan as long as they paid

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Speaker 2: regular tribute. The Sultan is not going to back you

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Speaker 2: up in much. He's not going to really come in

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Speaker 2: and fuck with you a lot. But like if you're

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Speaker 2: having problems with a foreign power, you probably you can't

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Speaker 2: really rely on the Ottoman army being anything but a

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Speaker 2: basket case, right, you know, their ability to project power

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Speaker 2: is kind of declined a lot by the early eighteen

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Speaker 2: hundreds and there had been ongoing issues for a couple

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Speaker 2: like almost I think two hundred years at this point,

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Speaker 2: really with the Barbary Pirates who were based I mean

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Speaker 2: they're based all around North Africa. You know, the US

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Speaker 2: has some early issues with them right at the birth

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Speaker 2: of our country and I think Tripoli. But the Barbary Pirates,

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Speaker 2: or at least some of them, are based out of

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Speaker 2: ports in Algeria, right and what is today Algeria, and

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Speaker 2: they had been for more than one hundred years. At

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Speaker 2: the start of the eighteen hundreds, these pirates had carried

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Speaker 2: out raids across Europe as far afield as Ireland, taking

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Speaker 2: slaves for generations. Right, Like, these guys are slave taking pirates.

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Speaker 2: They're not. They're not the nice, cool pirates that you

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Speaker 2: get like an HBO mini series about right. These guys

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Speaker 2: are real, real tough sons of bitches and really mean

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Speaker 2: sons of bitches, and they are you know, for generations.

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Speaker 2: They'll take slaves from wherever they can and it prompts

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Speaker 2: erratic reprisals. Right. You know, we talked about the US

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Speaker 2: gets involved in TRIPLEI at one point. That's why you

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Speaker 2: know the Marine Corps and their song from the halls

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Speaker 2: of Mocta Zuma to the shores of Triple Lee. That's

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Speaker 2: the US fucking with these pirates, right, yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: why that's in there. And France had gotten militarily involved

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Speaker 2: for the first time in the sixteen hundreds, so by

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Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds, for almost two hundred years there had

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Speaker 2: been on again, off again military involvement because these guys,

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Speaker 2: these guys, these pirates, right, they're real issue now aside

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Speaker 2: from these because they're not France's in't the only European

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Speaker 2: power that has their entanglements with the Barbary pirates, but

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Speaker 2: Algeria itself, which isn't really I say Algera, I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about Algiers. And there's some like low lying areas that

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Speaker 2: grow food and some villages, and you're as the day,

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Speaker 2: you're kind of controlling some roads. The whole territory that

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Speaker 2: we call Algeria. You're mostly not even governing, right, Like

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Speaker 2: it's really up to local you know, le tribal leaders

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Speaker 2: and villages. In a lot of the cases, you're not

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Speaker 2: running things on a day to day basis. In the

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Speaker 2: middle of the desert, right, they can go months without

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Speaker 2: having contact with the capitol let alone the outside world. Right,

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Speaker 2: That's just the way rural North Africa is working at

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Speaker 2: this period of time. Now. While European powers in France

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Speaker 2: will get involved with these pirates periodically, they try to

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Speaker 2: stay out of Algier's proper and you know, the broader

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Speaker 2: Algerian territory because for most from the sixteen hundreds up

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Speaker 2: to the eighteen hundreds, the Ottoman Empire still theoretically has shooters, right,

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Speaker 2: Those shooters are less and less good at their job

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Speaker 2: as time goes on. But you don't want to fuck

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Speaker 2: with the Ottomans too hard in the sixteen hundreds because

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Speaker 2: they could still they can still throw some weight around,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the US. Right when we talk about

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Speaker 2: failing empires, they're kind of like at that, this is

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Speaker 2: like their post Vietnam stage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're going to get messy. They have nothing to lose.

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Speaker 2: They have nothing. Yeah, So the Ottomans by the eighteen hundreds, though,

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Speaker 2: they're too much into their sick man phase of history

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Speaker 2: to really do much here. And right around the turn

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Speaker 2: of the centuries the eighteen hundred starts. France has their revolution, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, so they overthrow the king, the Guillotines come

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Speaker 2: out they have their you know, a republic, and they

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Speaker 2: also murder rebels who to help make the republic. But

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Speaker 2: you know, all that stuff is going on, and while France,

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Speaker 2: if you remember your French revolutionary history, shortly after the

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Speaker 2: French Revolution, France winds up at war with basically everyone

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Speaker 2: else in Europe. And when you're at war with everyone

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Speaker 2: else in Europe and you're doing the way that France

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Speaker 2: is competitive with the rest of Europe is they're doing

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Speaker 2: like mass conscription. Right, you have like a mass people's

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Speaker 2: army for like the first time in European history, which

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Speaker 2: allows you to compete with these much smaller professional armies

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Speaker 2: that theoretically have a lot more resources behind them. But

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Speaker 2: when you're taking all these guys, you don't have as

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Speaker 2: many guys to grow food. Right, So the French revolutionary

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Speaker 2: government for a while, they're kind of trying to stay

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Speaker 2: on the day's good side because Algeria is providing the

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Speaker 2: grain that revolutionary France needs to keep being revolutionary France,

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Speaker 2: right during this time when they're at war with everybody.

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Speaker 2: But this is a constant while they need Algiers, there's

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Speaker 2: constant political instability within Algiers. The day is never on

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Speaker 2: a steady, like he's never super safe in his position,

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Speaker 2: and there's constant, like you know, unrest throughout the territory, right,

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Speaker 2: and so periodically for about thirty years after the revolution,

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Speaker 2: these post revolutionary French leaders will mold the possibility of like, look,

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Speaker 2: we need this grain. We can't trust the current government,

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Speaker 2: they're just not stable. Should we just should we just

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Speaker 2: conquer Algeria? Like we could probably knocked that out in

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Speaker 2: like a weekend, right, Like that's like a long weekend

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Speaker 2: for us.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: They have like a raq brain where they're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we can just knock this out in a fucking as

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Speaker 2: soon as we kick this guy out, everyone will be

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Speaker 2: chill to be a part of France. This'll be easy, right.

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Speaker 3: Who among us hasn't just thought that it'd be easy

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Speaker 3: enough to take over Algeria?

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Speaker 2: Right? I think about this constantly. I still feel like

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Speaker 2: I could. I feel like I'm a contender, you know

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Speaker 2: where I'm gonna go on vacation there, just see if

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Speaker 2: I can wind up taking it over. You know, probably not,

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Speaker 2: Sorry Algeria, but this is an enticing prospect for post

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Speaker 2: revolutionary French leaders, Napoleon among them, right, Because Algeria if

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Speaker 2: you just look at it on the map. It's in

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Speaker 2: a great location. There's really good ports, right, really important ports,

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Speaker 2: and there's a lot of really good farmland. And so

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Speaker 2: Napoleon actually he sends spies over to Algiers and he

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Speaker 2: draws up plans for an invasion. But Napoleon's got a

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Speaker 2: lot going on. The French military is going to be

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Speaker 2: tapped for a significant portion of his time and power,

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Speaker 2: and he never gets around to it, which is a

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Speaker 2: real tragedy. Just one more war Napoleon could have gotten

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Speaker 2: to but didn't have the time. You know, you always

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Speaker 2: think you're gonna have more time to go to war

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Speaker 2: with Algeria than you do, which is another message for

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Speaker 2: our audience. You know, don't don't let time pass you

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Speaker 2: by invade Algeria today like the sponsors of this podcast

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Speaker 2: are looking to do. This podcast is sponsored entirely by

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Speaker 2: the pre eighteen twelve Napoleonic government. So please, you know,

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Speaker 2: support Napoleon with his invasion of Russia. It's gonna work.

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Speaker 2: We're back. It didn't bad stuff in Russia for the

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Speaker 2: French army, which is why Napoleon gets forced out. Right,

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Speaker 2: He's no longer the guy running things you've got a

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Speaker 2: king in France again, but he's not on a super

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Speaker 2: stable footing, and neither is the Day, and the two

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Speaker 2: of them wind up in constant conflict over debts. Right,

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Speaker 2: the Furia owes France money, France is pissed off about it,

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Speaker 2: and periodically, when the two countries are at odds, the

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Speaker 2: day we'll kind of tell the Barbary pirates, hey, go

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Speaker 2: back to doing your thing. You know, he can exert

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Speaker 2: a little bit of control over him when he wants

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Speaker 2: to keep France happy, But when he's pissed, he'd be like,

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Speaker 2: all right, you guys, you know, go fuck around, you know,

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Speaker 2: fuck around with some shit. Right, And this time the

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Speaker 2: Barbary Pirates fuck around, and all of Algiers finds it

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Speaker 2: out because France is like, uh, first off, we're pissed

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Speaker 2: because we just lost war, a war with all of Europe. Right,

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Speaker 2: We're feeling kind of bad about ourselves, like the US

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Speaker 2: in Iraq. Right, we need we need an easy win,

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Speaker 2: you know, to make us feel better about ourselves. We

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Speaker 2: lost this disastrous series of wars, so we really you know,

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Speaker 2: this is for our egos. We've got to invade and

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Speaker 2: conquer Algeria, right, yeah, and I'm smoothing things out a

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Speaker 2: little bit. But this is generally what happens, and kind

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Speaker 2: of things come to a height when there's a series

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Speaker 2: of arguments between the French ambassador in the day and

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Speaker 2: in April of eighteen twenty seven, the Day smacks the

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Speaker 2: French console to Algeria and the face with a fly swatter.

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Speaker 2: It's a moment that's memorialized in this beautiful painting. I

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Speaker 2: look at this, look at this. First off, they couldn't

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Speaker 2: have made the Day look like more of a Chad

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Speaker 2: and the fucking the console looked like more of a

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Speaker 2: Soyjack if they tried, like it's the original Chad and Soy.

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Speaker 3: When you said fly like, I thought you were being metaphoric.

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Speaker 2: No, it's a literal water. It's a literal fly swatter.

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Speaker 2: He smacks him in the face. Probably we don't know,

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Speaker 2: you know. This is one of those things. There's a

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Speaker 2: couple different stories about what happens. In an article for EBSCO,

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Speaker 2: Grove Cooger describes differing accounts of what went down. Quote

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Speaker 2: Hussein ben Hassan either tapped or struck, depending on conflicting

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Speaker 2: accounts visiting French console. Pierre de Val with a fly whisk.

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Speaker 2: The incident may simply have been intended to indicate by

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Speaker 2: the day that their interview was at an end, or

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Speaker 2: it may have constituted, as the French chose to interpret it,

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Speaker 2: a horrible and scandalous outrage. So either he's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're done, or he like hits him, He's like, fuck

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Speaker 2: you man. You know, we don't really know which it's

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Speaker 2: kind of dealing, but the French assume it's a fuck

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Speaker 2: you and that he really hit him, you know. So

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Speaker 2: this is the most direct provocation that leads to the

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Speaker 2: French invasion and conquest of Algeria. Again, I tried to

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Speaker 2: make it a point there had been ongoing and escalating

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Speaker 2: difficulties between them, and the fact that France you know,

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Speaker 2: has lost this series of wars is a big part

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Speaker 2: of like why they want to get involved. There's an

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Speaker 2: added there's an aspect of this that's like we need

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Speaker 2: to kind of revitalize our national pride by winning a war.

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Speaker 2: This is about fifty years before the Scramble for Africa,

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Speaker 2: so they're not caught up in the Scramble for Africa.

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Speaker 2: In fact, this is kind of one of the inciting

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Speaker 2: incidents in the scramble for Africa. Right, the fact that

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Speaker 2: French winds up taking Algeria will lead fifty years later

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Speaker 2: to a Because I don't know if I wasn't actually

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Speaker 2: aware of this until I started doing the research out,

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Speaker 2: the Algerian colony that French controls is the same largest

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Speaker 2: portion of Africa that's controlled by anyone during this period.

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Speaker 2: Algeria is the largest country in Africa geographically, so this

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Speaker 2: is a huge chunk of Africa. And so fifty years

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Speaker 2: or so down the line, the fact that France has this,

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Speaker 2: as these European powers awaken to like how much money

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Speaker 2: there is in Africa, they're gonna like, oh shit, there's

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Speaker 2: we're running out of Africa. We got to get some,

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Speaker 2: you know. Is kind of why Belgium winds up controlling

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Speaker 2: the Congo. There's there's a piece of that here. Now,

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Speaker 2: A more direct reason why France gets involved invades Algeria

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Speaker 2: is the oldest reason of all time. I keep making

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Speaker 2: George W. Bush comparisons, But like the new King of France,

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Speaker 2: Charles X, is like a bushy figure. He's very unpopular.

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Speaker 2: He is struggling, struggling to govern a country that is

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Speaker 2: not thrilled to have him in power, and he kind

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Speaker 2: of needs to distract everyone from the fact that he

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Speaker 2: sucks at what he's doing and nobody likes him. Right,

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Speaker 2: So Charles Charles the Tenth is like I said, X, sorry, Charles,

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Speaker 2: he's Charlie xxx Charles the tenth. That's how I'm choosing

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Speaker 2: to picture this now. Is Charlie XIX starting the slow

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Speaker 2: genocide of Algeria. That is very brad brat. It is bratt.

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Speaker 1: Good is good, brad is genocide.

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Speaker 3: Aside in Algeria is not brat.

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Speaker 2: I was literally just saying, it's pretty bratty to do

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Speaker 2: a genocide. But okay, this is I'm glad I'm getting

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Speaker 2: this context that would have been really embarrassing. So Charlie

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Speaker 2: the Tenth decides this fly Swater thing, this is the

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Speaker 2: excuse I need to get into a foreign war that

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Speaker 2: absolutely won't threaten my power or involve the rest of

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Speaker 2: Europe safe. It's going to be super easy. We're going

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Speaker 2: to be in and out, you know, Koja writes quote,

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Speaker 2: announcing publicly that he was eradicating Algerian privateering. Charles quickly

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Speaker 2: dispatched a naval squadron under the command of Rear, Admiral

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Speaker 2: Joseph coleay Cola reached the port of Algiers on June eleventh,

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Speaker 2: after taking the console and other French citizens on board.

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Speaker 2: He's set up a naval blockade through the next three years.

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Speaker 2: Sultan Mahmood, the second of the Autumn Empire, tried in

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Speaker 2: Vain to persuade day Hussein ben Hassan to come to

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Speaker 2: terms with the French. He was supported in these efforts

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Speaker 2: by the British, who were anxious to maintain a balance

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Speaker 2: of power in the Mediterranean and protect their own interests.

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Speaker 2: In March of eighteen thirty, Mahmoud sent an emissary, a

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Speaker 2: former Grand Mufti, which is a judicial official of Algiers

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Speaker 2: who had since retired to Turkey, to insist that Hussain

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Speaker 2: ben Hassan make peace. By that time, the French government,

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Speaker 2: and ever increasing need of a distraction from its internal affairs,

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Speaker 2: had decided to launch a direct invasion. So this really

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Speaker 2: is like a war on terror moment for them, where

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, yeah, we gotta deal with these pirates. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's why we're stealing.

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Speaker 3: All this stuff, protecting, protecting.

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Speaker 2: Protecting everyone. Yeah. Yeah, French nine eleven. Was this guy

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Speaker 2: getting hit by a fly swatter? That's the fucking plane

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Speaker 2: hitting the second tower. Is this splicewater back in fucking

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Speaker 2: this console in the face. So on May eleventh, eighteen thirty,

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Speaker 2: a French fleet of six hundred ships set sail for

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Speaker 2: the African coast and arrived there on June twelfth, Utilizing

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Speaker 2: intelligence gathered during the Napoleonic era, thirty four thousand troops

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Speaker 2: landed and carried out a rapid and successful invasion. The

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Speaker 2: Algerians outnumbered French soldiers. They have like twenty percent more

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Speaker 2: guys on board. And normally, if you're attacking, you want

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Speaker 2: like two to one numerical odds against the defender. If

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Speaker 2: like everything else has parody, right, that's generally like best

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Speaker 2: wisdom across the last like ten thousand years of military history.

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Speaker 2: But these forces are not in parody. Right. The Algerian

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Speaker 2: military is just a militia. They're armed with weaponry that

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Speaker 2: would have been outdated even for like the regular Ottoman army,

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Speaker 2: and France has a modern army with a lot of

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Speaker 2: experienced troops. Right, They've got modern guns, they've got modern cannons.

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Speaker 2: They just steam roll the day's army. The actual fighting

430
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 2: is not really ever in doubt, right, and that's not

431
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 2: the problems that France is going to encounter is not

432
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: in straight up land battles, right, It's going to be

433
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 2: in an insurgency. By July fourth, Algiers had been bombarded

434
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 2: by sea and the Day's army had been shattered into

435
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: decisive land battles. French civilians who'd been evacuated from Algiers

436
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: before the invasion watched the shelling from yachts anchored offshore.

437
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 2: It's one of those classic, like start of the Civil

438
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: War moments where people are like picnicking to watch the battle.

439
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: You know, they're sitting on their yachts watching the city

440
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: get shelt.

441
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

442
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: Really, it makes you sympathetic for these rich French people.

443
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: So the Day goes into exile and France takes nominal

444
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: control of the capitol. This is the end of things

445
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 2: going well for France, right. They get a nice quick victory,

446
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: they occupy the city, but they can't actually govern Algeria.

447
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: That's a lot easier in theory than reality. The war

448
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 2: had ended very rapidly, but Frances then left with this

449
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: uncomfortable reality that the Day had never governed Algeria. He

450
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: had controlled the capital and like some roads and towns,

451
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: but for the most part, there's this patchwork of regional

452
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: leaders and warlords who have been handling their shit for

453
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 2: the day and primarily on their own terms. There's no

454
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 2: functional Algerian state for France to just plug into. There's

455
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: this vast and hostile territory that they know very little

456
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 2: about and has no interest in being part of France.

457
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 2: The fact that French soldiers act like occupying soldiers once

458
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: they take the capitol does not help matters, right and

459
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: dear them, no, no, no, they're pillaged. They pillage the capitol, right,

460
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: They desecrate mosques and cemeteries because soldiers are assholes a

461
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: lot of the time. They're like really going out of

462
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: their way to make these people angry. Yeah, everybody loves

463
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: it when you desecrate their holy buildings and their cemeteries.

464
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: Come on, man, Yeah, so France, And a big part

465
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 2: of why you know this isn't just the soldiers are

466
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: losing control and you know, being let off the leash

467
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: by their officers. France has sent six hundred ships to

468
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: Algiers right right after losing a series of hideously expensive

469
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: wars they're broke. They need to rob Algiers blind to

470
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 2: pay for the invasion, right, so they absolutely just steal

471
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: the entire treasury, which wrecks the local economy. So this

472
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: makes the Algerian people very unhappy and they attempt to

473
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 2: register their displeasure at this state of affairs. When you know,

474
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: it becomes clear that the natives are restless, arrestive, the

475
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: king sends an interpreter who speaks the language to deliver

476
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: a message to the people of Algiers. It's called a

477
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: proclamation to the Arabs. And in this proclamation, the king's

478
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 2: interpreter tells the people of Algiers that France only wants

479
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: to help them, and they really hope they'll obey their

480
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: new overlords. And if they don't, this guy warns God

481
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: will inflict quote the most rigorous punishments on those who

482
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: commit damage against the land and who ruin the country

483
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: and its inhabitants. Now, it's really worth noting the way

484
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: that's framed right in her study French Land Algerian People,

485
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: Page Goalie notes of this proclamation. Significantly, this statement emphasized

486
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: above all harmed the land and the country listed the

487
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: inhabitants last, almost as an afterthought. In other words, it

488
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: depicted the well being of the country and the land

489
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: itself as the primary concerns of the French. So from

490
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: the jump they're like, you guys, better not fuck up

491
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 2: this land with your being people and you're living on it.

492
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: You know, we need this stuff. Nice guys, we love

493
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: a colonial overlord. So things start off on a bad

494
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: foot and over the next few decades they don't get better.

495
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: This evolves this attitude that like, we're putting the land

496
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: before the people who live there becomes official state policy

497
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: of the French occupiers. And the Algerians aren't stupid. They

498
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: know immediately as soon as proclamation comes out. They know

499
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: that like, oh, these people are going to steal our

500
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: land from us, and they don't care what happens to us,

501
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: just because we happen to be living on it, right,

502
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 2: so they're not motivated to be loyal to the crown

503
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 2: to make matters worse. Right after Algiers gets taken in

504
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: July of the same year, there's a revolution in France

505
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: called the July Revolution that forces King Charles XCX, you know,

506
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: out of power, right, just just a couple of weeks

507
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: after his great victory. Now he gets replaced by his cousin,

508
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: so not a wild difference between these two guys, and

509
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: he has to go it. It's very funny. He forces

510
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 2: the day to go into exile, and he has to

511
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: go into exile so his cousin can run things.

512
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: That's karma.

513
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: That's karma. If only the Iraq war had worked out

514
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: this way. George Bush is hiding and like Argentina or

515
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: something right now, doing his paintings from Yeah I Dream.

516
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 2: So the government behind the next monarch are not supportive

517
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: of this latest foreign adventure. Right. The people who wind

518
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: up because the king gets deposed, and like the officials

519
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: around his cousin, are the guys who had opposed the

520
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: king invading Algeria. Right, they'd been the ones being like

521
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: this is going to be disastrous and expensive. But now

522
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 2: they're in charge, and Algeria is a French possession. You

523
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,239
Speaker 2: can't just leave it, right, Like, you can't just go

524
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: even though you know it's a bad idea. You have

525
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: to maintain the occupation that you know is a bad idea,

526
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 2: because otherwise you're going to be admitting that you failed,

527
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: and with a national pride won't let you leave this

528
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: possession behind, right, like the French people have invested their

529
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: egos now into controlling Algeria, so you can't It's like

530
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: an Afghanistan thing. Even though you didn't start this. If

531
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: you take over and leave, you're going to get blamed

532
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: for it not working out. It's cool how often the

533
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: same shit happens in history.

534
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: I know you're saying that, and it's like that can

535
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: be applied to so many situations.

536
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: Fuck, we didn't want to be here, but we have

537
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: to figure out how to make this war work, and

538
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: we're going to wind up committing so many crimes against

539
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: humanity to try to make this war that we didn't

540
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: want work for us. Right. In her study French Land

541
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: Algerian People, which I really do recommend if you're trying

542
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: to get an idea on how this occupation went, page

543
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: Gully describes what happened next. After the initial conquest, Algeria

544
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: was left under the control of largely autonomous generals who

545
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: waged brutal warfare against the local Arab and Berber populations.

546
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: So because they're Westerners under like a quote unquote modern state,

547
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: we don't call these guys' warlords, these generals that France

548
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: just gives power to do whatever in Algeria. But they're

549
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: warlords and they're primarily when they get frustrated. These guys

550
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: are military men, so they don't have any idea of like, Okay, well,

551
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: the population's angry because the cost of living has increased

552
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: and because of this policy and that policy. So if

553
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 2: we set up this like broad based series of policies

554
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: looked at changing the economic status, then like we can

555
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: improve people's quality of life, and gradually the level of

556
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: resistance will fade because people will have like, they won't

557
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: be willing to die fighting because they'll actually have things

558
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: and they'll have a life. They don't think that way.

559
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: They're like, people are angry, guests will shoot them. They're

560
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: still angry. Let's try shooting some more. Maybe we'll starve them,

561
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: let's poison the water.

562
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: You know.

563
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: That's the only fucking That's the only way they're capable

564
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: of thinking. Right, And so for the next seventy years,

565
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: there are regular uprisings against French occupation. Right, I cannot

566
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: exaggerate the degree to which this is not a situation

567
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: in which the Algerian people are passive or just letting

568
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: this shit happen to them. Right. For an idea of

569
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: how intense an occupation they require because of how effective

570
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: their resistance is. For the first twenty something years France

571
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: occupies Algeria, a third of the French military is constantly

572
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: deployed in the territory.

573
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 3: Right, yeahs like a big investment.

574
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: That is a huge investment, Like, that's so much money.

575
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: And throughout this first twenty something years, more than one

576
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: point six million Algerians will be killed by the French,

577
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: largely people who like disease and starvation, right, as a

578
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: result of different military and other policies being pursued by

579
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: the occupiers, along with at least one hundred thousand French soldiers. Right,

580
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: So this is a brutal occupation. We are talking a

581
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: massive body count here. Algeria is not annexed formally until

582
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: eighteen forty one, and until the eighteen eighties, the colony

583
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: is governed by military officers. Right, there's no like civil administration.

584
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: It's not until the close of the nineteenth into the

585
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: twentieth centuries that the territory of Algeria becomes anything close

586
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: to a functional colony. And the way that we usually

587
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: talk about when we're discussing colonies of European powers during

588
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: this period, right, because it's just too violent for it

589
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: to be really functioning the way a colony is supposed to.

590
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: Now again, Algeria today, the country Algeria is about nine

591
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: hundred thousand square miles, right, the largest country in Africa,

592
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: so it's not surprising the French have difficulty tying things up.

593
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: And the sheer amount of bloodshed and the consistency of

594
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: resistance from the population does two things. First, it inculcated

595
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: within the French people a feeling that this land was

596
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: theirs in a way that separated it from even their

597
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: other colonial possessions because they bled so dearly for it. Right.

598
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: A lot more of us died for this than the

599
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: other places we owned, so we own this in a

600
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: different way way, right, And the fact that a lot

601
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: more of them diet doesn't really that's not really hitting

602
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: our books, you know. The second thing this does is

603
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: it further separates the Algerian people from the land and

604
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: from French citizens. Right. The Algerians are seen as damaged.

605
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 2: They're not just inferior in the sense that, like you know,

606
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: white supremacists see all non white people as inferior, but

607
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: they're also broken in a way that can't be fixed

608
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: because in most you know, these are all of these

609
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: colonial states are white supremacists, right, but not necessarily in

610
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: the way that we think about today. There's an attitude

611
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: of like, especially like if you look at the way

612
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: the British were taught talked about their Indian possesions, there's

613
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: an attitude of like, well, we can uplift these people

614
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: and make them civilized, right, and that's also very racist

615
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: and problematic, But there's still this attitude that we're there

616
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: to leave behind a functional state. The French never feel

617
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: this way in Algeria. They don't feel we're not We're

618
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: not here to do anything but kill these people and

619
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: take there. We don't give a fuck about these human beings, right,

620
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: we're not even pretending to. Eugene Boudhichon, who's a French

621
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: doctor who settles in Algiers in the eighteen fifties, is

622
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: one of the first intellectuals to lay this out clearly, right,

623
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: because he's a you know, he's a medical professional, he's

624
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: a he's a learned man, and he's engaging with other

625
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: learned men of this of this, you know, the state

626
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: that has these kind of within sort of the French

627
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: population these attitudes of like egalitarianism, right, and so we're

628
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: all kind of debating, you know, the kind of empire

629
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: we want to have, and he starts to complain that

630
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: there's a couple of issues. We have a nowt couple

631
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: of major issues in Algeria governing it. Right. First off,

632
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: when you send Europeans to Algeria, they die really fucking quickly, right,

633
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: because the climate is not hospitable to French people. You know,

634
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: you're in the desert. There's a lot of different diseases

635
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: that you know, French people aren't used to getting. It's

636
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: just like not a good place for French people to be.

637
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: And so you can't get that large a European population,

638
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: or at least not a French European population. Spaniards do okay, right,

639
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: And there's some French possessions that are basically Spanish in

640
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: this period, like in the Mediterranean, and some like allies,

641
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: so like they will take in Spanish colonists to colonize

642
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: Algeria because like you know, Spain is hotter, right, Like

643
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,239
Speaker 2: they're more used to the climate. Right. If you look

644
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: at like southern Spain, it's not a wildly different climate

645
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: from North Africa in a lot of ways. Right, So

646
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: you can kind of do that, but you can't really

647
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: get a large French population in Algiers because they just

648
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: keep dying.

649
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: Right.

650
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: But also you can't trust the native Algerians because they

651
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: keep rebelling. You know, they're fundamentally and there's this idea

652
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: that that Bodaschon has that like they're never going to

653
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: be will never be able to trust them. So what

654
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: we need to do is replace them with other Africans, right,

655
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: for different parts of Africa. Quote this is Bodacheon writing.

656
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: Such colonists could be best found by diverting captives from

657
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: the Saharan slave trade and directing them towards Algeria. Here

658
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: they could be legally emancipated and put to work on

659
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: the land. I got an idea, guys. Look, post revolution,

660
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: we're an ethical state now, France's you know, modern and enlightened.

661
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: What if we take slaves from the slave trade and

662
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: just use them to grow food in this other possession,

663
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: and we ethnically cleanse the native people and technically we

664
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: say we're not doing slavery anymore. Is can we can

665
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: we make that work? Right? That's that's Bodashan's idea. These

666
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: people suck so bad. Now. Slavery is made illegal in

667
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: France in eighteen forty eight, which is a fact that

668
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: you know, the Frinch like to bring up to the

669
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: Americans because it takes us a bit longer. But it's

670
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: like illegal, right, you can't have slaves in France, You're

671
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: not supposed to have them anywhere else. But slavery still exists,

672
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: and also state like situation for workers that is not

673
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: technically slavery, but it basically is slavery. You know, you've

674
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: got prisons and colonies and stuff that function that way too.

675
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: And guys like Bodischan are going to argue that we actually,

676
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: even though it's illegal, we need slavery at least to

677
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: get Africans from elsewhere in Africa, from Sub Saharan Africa

678
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: to Algeria. Right, we can do away with the system

679
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: once they're in Algeria, but only quote the devotion of

680
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: African slaves of color can counteract the bellicose nature of

681
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: the native Algerians, Right, that's his argument. So just the

682
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: most racist people that you can imagine. Now, the abolition

683
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: of slavery in France is further complicated by the fact

684
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of slave owners in Algeria and

685
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: they're of the There's two types of Algerians at this point, right,

686
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: There's two types of people who call themselves Algerians. There's

687
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: what we would call Algerians, which is like the native

688
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: indigenous peoples of the area who had lived there before

689
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: French conquest. And then there's these foreign Europeans who have

690
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: settled in Algeria and to some extent of intermarried with

691
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: the local population, but also keep to themselves a lot,

692
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: and they also call themselves Algerians. Right, So the upper

693
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: strata of like the people who had been closer to

694
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: the day, who are wealthier and are you know, native Algerians,

695
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 2: they have slaves, and the European Algerians have slaves. And

696
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: the French authorities are supposed to enforce the laws against

697
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: slavery in Algeria, but they don't, or at least they

698
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 2: do it unevenly. Right. Historian Benjamin Brauer noted that colonial

699
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: authorities allowed Algerians of both kinds, who are friendly with

700
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 2: the French government to continue to hold and trade slaves. Quote,

701
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: French administrators granted permission to trade in slaves and keep

702
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: those they owned, and in some cases the French administration

703
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: even returned fugitive slaves. Right, you only take slaves from

704
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 2: people if they're unfriendly Algerians, right, if they're opposed to

705
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: the French government, then you take their slaves and you

706
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 2: try to turn and the farmers. Right, we're using this

707
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 2: as a way to try to colonize, you know, and

708
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: keep a working population we can trust in the colony. Now,

709
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: this doesn't work very well. It's hard to make something

710
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: like this work at the scale you need to. And

711
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: so in the eighteen fifties, our favorite French king, Napoleon

712
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: the Third, we talked about a lot on this show.

713
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 2: A year or two ago, Old Nappy three sends a

714
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: group of French political prisoners who had tried to leave

715
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: Snappy three, Nappy three, Nappy trace baby.

716
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: Got Charlie xx and that trace.

717
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go. So he had come to power.

718
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: You know, it was a coup, right, he like, he

719
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: takes power as the king, and there's a counter revolution

720
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: against him that fails, and he arrests like six thousand

721
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: people and he sends them. He starts sending these guys

722
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: over to Algeria, and his attitude is like, well, I'll

723
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: send these arrestees and they'll create farms, and once they've

724
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: got a farm going, they'll send for their families to

725
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: join them. And that's how we'll get like a trustworthy

726
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: population base in Algeria going, right, so we can make

727
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: this appropriately French, and eventually the idea is we'll just

728
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: kind of genocide ethnically cleanse push out all of the

729
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: native people, right, like that's the hope. It's never going

730
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 2: to work for them because this is a bad idea

731
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: for a lot of reasons. And you know, Napoleon the

732
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: Third being Napoleon the Third, he can't even be consistent

733
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: about this, and in short order he pardons most of

734
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: these prisoners because his popularity takes a dive and he's like,

735
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: maybe this will make people like me.

736
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: Ultimately he's trying, which is something.

737
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 2: He's trying, right, So less than fifty of these six

738
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: thousand guys actually wind up settling in Algeria, which is

739
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: kind of shit, Like this keeps happening where they'll have

740
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: these grand ambitions, this will let us get up popular,

741
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: this will do it, and it never really works. So

742
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: for the next fifty years or so, France struggles to

743
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 2: convince any French people to move to a place where

744
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: they aren't wanted, and the climate and native illnesses will

745
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: kill them very quickly in most cases. French in a

746
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: ellectuals and political elites only grow more dedicated to holding

747
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: on to Algeria during this time because they're continuing to

748
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: pour troops and boets into the territory while complaining that

749
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: without French farmers this project can't work. So by the

750
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: end of the century, you know, in eighteen seventy seventy one,

751
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 2: we have Germany goes to war with France. Germany also

752
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: becomes the thing we have the Franco Prussian War. Right.

753
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 2: Napoleon falls at the end of the Franco Prussian War,

754
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 2: and France becomes a republic yet again. Right, And by

755
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: the time the republic is back, French policy has settled

756
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: into this uneasy conclusion are Algeria, which is that it's

757
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: not a colony in the same way that like Indo

758
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: China is right. And for a description of how they're

759
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: looking at Algeria in this period, I want to quote

760
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: from an article written by Jim House for the University

761
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: of Leeds. Algerians were French subjects, but not French citizens.

762
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: For decades, Algerians embodied a significant exception to the established

763
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: French republican model that for men at least combined to

764
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: nationality and say ship Algeria constituted a colonial territory fully

765
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 2: integrated into the republic that, as politicians like to say,

766
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: ran from Dunkirk in the north to tam and Rasset

767
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: and the Sahara the Mediterranean, separating French in Algeria like

768
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: the Sin running through Paris. Right, So I think that's

769
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: really important to dwell on a little. After the revolution,

770
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 2: there are attempts to say, look, France is an empire.

771
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: We govern a lot of territory that's outside of Europe.

772
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: But all the men there are equal, right, because you know, liberty, egality, fraternity, right,

773
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: we're all equal. There are a tent now. They're never perfect.

774
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: We can talk about Haiti, right. The French are never

775
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: perfectly consistent, but there is an attempt in most of

776
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: their colonial possessions to say we recognize the equality of

777
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 2: all men. Right. They don't really believe it, they're not

778
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: consistent about it, but they are at least sign posting that,

779
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 2: and they don't even try to do that with Algeria. Right.

780
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: The final establishment of French policy is that Algerian land

781
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: and the people don't belong anywhere. Right, they can move,

782
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 2: they can move to Paris even if they want, but

783
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 2: they won't have rights there. They can't vote, they're not citizens, right.

784
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: And because shit is bad in Algiers. In Algeria, there's

785
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: a lot of poverty, there's a lot of desperation, a

786
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: lot of Algerians move to Paris, right, both native Algerians

787
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: and kind of people who for a couple generations have

788
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: been part of this European population that call themselves Algerians

789
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: in Algeria, they also move to Paris. And there's an

790
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: extent to which they're all viewed kind of the same

791
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 2: by Parisians, right, And they come to form a permanent underclass.

792
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 2: And this is by the way, still a thing in France,

793
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: and particularly in Paris, the Algerian population, which is consistently

794
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: mistreated and not treated equally and abused by the police

795
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: and like, that is still a problem in France to

796
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: this day. Right, And this is kind of where that

797
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: all starts, you know. And so these these Algerians who

798
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: are living in Paris are abused by the police, they're

799
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: abused by their employers, they're nable to advocate for themselves

800
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: in any legal way. This is not a happy situation

801
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: for the Algerians who are living in Paris, and there's

802
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: a lot of anger as a result of that. In

803
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: eighteen ninety two, the French Senate ordered an inquiry into

804
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: Algerian affairs, which was written by Emilion Chatrue. His three

805
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty page report essentially summarized the final conclusion

806
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: of the French state into the Algerian question. Chatrue was

807
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: not only a government official who was supposed to be

808
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: analyzing the country, he'd lived for years in Algeria. During

809
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: a chapter in the History of colonial Policies towards land use,

810
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: he praised the richness of Algeria's land and blamed its

811
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 2: constant famines, which had been incited by the government during

812
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: Napoleon the Third's reign to starve Algerians and break the

813
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: rebel movement, as instead being caused by negligence and lack

814
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: of foresight by Algerian farmers. They didn't foresee that we

815
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: were going to kill them, you know. That's why they.

816
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 3: Died like a foresight classic.

817
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: That's the issue lack of foresight, right yeah, he concluded,

818
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 2: only the European with his civilization, knows how to subject

819
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: the soil to the intensive cultivation that will return one

820
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: hundred percent of its potential. Page Gulli summarizes the rest

821
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: of the report. In reviewing past colonization policies, Chatru was

822
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 2: complementary of the French government's recognition of the potential value

823
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: of Algerian land. We have understood that the future of

824
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: North Africa had to be rooted in the progressive acquisition

825
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: of land for the European settlers, who bring with them

826
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 2: their scientific methods and their sophisticated equipment. However, despite this recognition,

827
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: many colonization policies failed to significantly increase the cultivation of Algeria.

828
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: Chatru blamed this failure largely on what he perceived as

829
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: French leniency in allowing Algerian people to keep their own

830
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: land that their relatives had owned forever, or to even

831
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: buy land, labeling that imprudent generosity that always weighed heavily

832
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: on the colony. This generosity of letting people stay in

833
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:57,959
Speaker 2: their homes sometimes sometimes stopped France from using Algeria's land

834
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: to its full potential because the people who live there

835
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: cultivated ineffectively. And again, Chetrue was ignoring the fact that

836
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: French people can't survive there right and also have no

837
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: interest in being subsistence farmers because it sucks.

838
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 3: Guy sucks.

839
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

840
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: French leniency.

841
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: French colonial administrators always shitty. You know who else is

842
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: always no, not always shitty, sometimes shitty, sometimes shitty. We

843
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: don't pick them sponsors of this podcast. Oh great, yeah, no,

844
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,479
Speaker 2: they do sometimes suck.

845
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 3: They do sometimes super suck.

846
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: No way to know, no way to know. We're back.

847
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, everyone having a good time. We're still

848
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: talking about French jittocide and colonialism in Algeria just because

849
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: it's one of my favorite topics and it ties into

850
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: our bastard here, so she had. True's report not only

851
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: concludes that the French have to be more assertive in

852
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: Algeria and being dicks to the local, but that we

853
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: need to focus more on the frenchness of Algeria. His work,

854
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: argued quote, in Algeria it is necessary to carry out

855
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: French policies. That is the lesson of history. He asserted.

856
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: We have tried time and time again to create an

857
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: Algeria for the Arabs. Events have always cruelly demonstrated that

858
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: this was nothing but a dangerous illusion. Because we conquered Algeria,

859
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 2: we must make it a colony, that is, for neither

860
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: the Arabs, nor the foreigners, nor the Jews, but for

861
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: the French. Some anti Semitism just sliding in there out

862
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: of just t boning that I was.

863
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 3: Waiting for one Nazis, I was waiting for the anti Semitism.

864
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: Yes, and this is important, the fact that you could

865
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 2: have put these words in the mouth of a Nazi,

866
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: right if you just replace French with German and it

867
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 2: would sound right. You know, that's important because we're going

868
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 2: to spend most of these episodes talking about the German

869
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: occupation of France, and a lot of what the German

870
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: occupation of France is is Germany doing to the French

871
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 2: a less brutal version generally than what the French had

872
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 2: done to the Algerians. They're certainly going to kill a

873
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 2: a smaller portion of the population, shall we say, so,

874
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: that's that's what these French colonial ministrators are being like. Well,

875
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 2: Algeria obviously doesn't belong to the Arabs or the foreigners,

876
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: and he's talking about like the Spanish and other European Algerians, right,

877
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: nor the Jews. It belongs to the French natural French territory, Algeria,

878
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: the place we can't survive in we die immediately there.

879
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: Of course this belongs to us. Now, I told you

880
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: at the top of this episode, we're talking about a

881
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: goddamn football player, right.

882
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: Where is the kickball situation?

883
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: Well, he's an Algerian, right, He's a European Algerian, right,

884
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: he is born in Algiers, right, And he's going to

885
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: wind up becoming a colonial enforcer in France for the Nazis,

886
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 2: which I find a really fascinating dichotomy. Right that you

887
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: have this horrible history of French colonialism in Algeria. This

888
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: guy is a product of it. He's French and Spanish,

889
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: but he's born and raised in Algeria. He would call

890
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: himself Algerian, other people called him an Algerian. And he

891
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: moves to France and winds up an occupying soldier carrying

892
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: out a brutal insurgent war against the native people of France,

893
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: which is a really interesting thing to me, right, like

894
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: a what a wild switcheroo. We're going through here and

895
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: among other things. I felt it would be fucked up

896
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: to just talk about how brutal this guy was as

897
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: an occupier and like pretend, as we often do when

898
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: we're talking about the European powers around this period, pretend

899
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: they didn't get up to Nazi shit before the Nazis did, right,

900
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's important to It's like we

901
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 2: say about the British Empire. Were they absolutely much better

902
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: than the Nazis? Of course? Were they also for most

903
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: of their history just slower than the Nazis? Yes, that's

904
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: also true, right. You know, we could we could talk

905
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: about the genocide, the starvation genocide and Bengal, right, you know,

906
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,959
Speaker 2: twenty thirty million people dead, and we have on this show,

907
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: and we just talked about the French killed one point

908
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,959
Speaker 2: six two million Algerians, you know, in this period of time.

909
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 2: Now we're starting with the story of our actual bastard.

910
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 2: On December twenty fourth, nineteen minutes Yeah, hell.

911
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Margaret Kiljoy, Yeah, context, the people love context.

912
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. On December twenty fourth, nineteen o four, Alexander Eugene

913
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: Villa Plana was born in Algiers. By the time of

914
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: his birth, there were more than one hundred thousand, close

915
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: to two hundred thousand foreigners, which are Europeans who are

916
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: living in Algeria, and they have their own Patois dialect

917
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 2: because again they are intermarrying to some extent. So there

918
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: it's a mix of like Arabic and French, and there's

919
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: I think there's some Spanish in there, and they call

920
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: themselves Algerians. Alexander's father is of Spanish extraction. His parents

921
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: had come from a Mediterranean island called Minorca and had

922
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: immigrated to Algeria in the eighteenth century. Spain had let

923
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: France use the island as a staging area for their invasion,

924
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: and once France took Algeria, they urged Minorcan farm to

925
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: leave their homes and per Luke Brien's biography of Laplana,

926
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: Minorcan farmers were encouraged to leave the poor and stony

927
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: land to exploit that of Algeria, the women especially, right,

928
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: and what you get with that, the women especially. What's

929
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: going on here is France recognizes these people who live

930
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: in this island that's pretty close that they're European. So

931
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of our racial supremacy, it's better

932
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 2: for us that we consider them more trustworthy and better people,

933
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: but they can survive being on the land better, so

934
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: we really want to get as many of those women

935
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: over there as possible, get them pregnant, and start building

936
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 2: a European expat population in Algiers. Right. However, these kind

937
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: of minorcan farmers are more can survive in North Africa

938
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: better than the French, but not all that well. Because

939
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: Alexander's grandparents die when his dad is seven, so he

940
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: you know, shortly after they arrive they die. Joseph, his

941
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: father is left an orphan. He eventually grows up. He

942
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: gets me married to Nathalie, a French woman whose family

943
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 2: came from the mainland but who had moved to Algeria

944
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: to try and colonize it. And yeah, they get married.

945
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: This is not Joseph is married at least once before

946
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: and has one divorce because he's abusive and jealous. Like

947
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: he's physically abusive enough that they make a note of

948
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: it in like the eighteen nineties, right, which is hard.

949
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: He also gets in trouble at one point for assaulting

950
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: a tax official who makes eyes at his wife before

951
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 2: they're married. Right, this guy is tax official looks at

952
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: his future wife rog and he assaults him. So our

953
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: this is our bastard's dad. This is Joseph, Alexander's father.

954
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 2: And Joseph again, I've just said he's a European. There

955
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 2: these are we see them rightly as the colonizers. Joseph

956
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: doesn't see himself that way, nor does he see their

957
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: family as colonizers. He sees himself as one of the

958
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 2: common people of Algeria, right.

959
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 3: So he sees himself as Algab even you know, he's

960
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 3: like European in his heritage.

961
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: Yes, and he sees himself as a European Algerians. We

962
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 2: certainly does. One would assume see himself as probably better

963
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: or at least different from the Arab Algerians. But he

964
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: still sees himself as a because he's poor, right, and

965
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 2: so most of the Europeans are on the wealthier side

966
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 2: of things, right, and the European descent, And he sees

967
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: himself he identifies as I am of the common people

968
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 2: of Algeria. Right, We're not these rich assholes. Right. That's

969
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: very important to Joseph, and that's going to be a

970
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: major aspect of Like the way he raises Alexander Alexander's

971
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: going to be raised to believe these rich French assholes

972
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: are like kind of our natural enemy, right because like

973
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: we're poor, working class Algerians, right, Like fuck these guys,

974
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: you know, And that's that's going to be important to

975
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: how Alexander views the world as he grows up. So,

976
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: Joseph is, you know, he's poor by the standards of

977
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: Europeans in Algeria, but he's rich by the standards probably

978
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 2: Arab Algerians. He starts like three different barrel making businesses

979
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 2: that all fail, but he's got enough family money coming

980
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: in from his money and then his wife's family that

981
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: he's able to repeatedly start and fail at new barrel

982
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: making businesses. At some point, man just stop making barrels, homie,

983
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 2: Like the hell, it's not working. How many barrel business

984
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 2: come off?

985
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 3: With one more?

986
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: One more? He keeps like switching towns, like this is

987
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: the town that wants barrels? None of them do.

988
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: I mean, it seems like people would need barrels. I

989
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 3: get the logic.

990
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 2: Sure, people need a lot of stuff, but that doesn't

991
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: mean that you're gonna be the one to provide it.

992
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: Well.

993
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, So from his earliest memories, Alexander would have been

994
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: told by his father again, we're working poor, We're not

995
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: like these wealthy foreign landowners. And the reality is that

996
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: his wife's family, so Alexander's mom has like family with

997
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 2: some amount of I don't think they're rich, but they're

998
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: comfortable back in France and they visit them regularly. So

999
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: as a little kid, Alexander is going from North Africa

1000
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 2: to France. The Villaplanas are thus much better off than

1001
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: most native Algerians. And because of this, because he's traveling

1002
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: back to France, he gets a head start on the

1003
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: rest of the kids in Algeria and playing football. Right,

1004
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: And this is a thing football. It's kind of started

1005
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 2: off in the UK, right, and it's traveled down Europe

1006
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: at this point it's going to hit obviously today in

1007
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: North Africa. The whole air world football is a massive deal, right,

1008
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 2: Like I can tell you, just like all of the

1009
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: time I've spent in Iraq, I saw so many fucking

1010
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: messy jerseys, right, it was like the one thing everyone

1011
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: could agree on is how much they fucking love that guy.

1012
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 3: Everybody MESSI, everybody.

1013
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: Loves fucking MESSI. Like in his book, Lebresard. Luke Briand

1014
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: writes about Alexander's early family trips back to France. Quote

1015
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 2: the family, which now included two daughters in this little

1016
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: boy regularly returned to Hero and later some would remember

1017
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: seeing young Alexander, a child of the century, treading the

1018
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 2: football fields of set when he was barely four years old,

1019
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: legs like match sticks, running tirelessly and laughter in the

1020
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: sunset over the ponds. Four years is young, but it

1021
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: is true that the child shows predispositions, always laughing in life, lively,

1022
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 2: spinning enthusiastically, a ball in his hands or at his feet.

1023
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: He's one of these kids. He's just born to play football, right,

1024
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: the instant he gets a ball in his hand, right,

1025
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: he's just losing his mind over the sport, like you

1026
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 2: can't stop him. Football remains his main concern throughout his childhood.

1027
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: He does okay in school. Brion describes him as performing

1028
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 2: honorably in primary school, which I had to translate the

1029
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: book because it's in French, so maybe I'm just getting

1030
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: that one wrong.

1031
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 3: It kind of sounds like honorably is like h fine.

1032
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does okay. He doesn't shame himself.

1033
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 1: Right.

1034
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he starts primary school in nineteen ten. He

1035
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 2: attends a free school in a town near Algiers, which

1036
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 2: is a free school because like it's basically a a

1037
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: more affluent suburb, and they're like, we don't want to

1038
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 2: pay into the public schools that these Arab kids are using, right,

1039
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 2: so we'll we'll pay for a free school in our suburbs,

1040
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 2: right where it's like our attack. It's one of those things.

1041
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 2: It's a charter school deal.

1042
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: Right.

1043
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: So this is a religious school. But Alexander's family is not, right,

1044
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 2: they're very much kind of a French Republican family in

1045
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: that area, and that like they they're not really believers.

1046
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: Quote in the Villaplana Household, Luke Brion writes, weddings and

1047
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 2: funerals are resolutely civil. Alexander was a decent student. He's

1048
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: good enough that he gets in the local papers for

1049
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 2: his grades, but he doesn't graduate with honors. Since Villaplane

1050
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 2: is a Spanish name and not a French one, his

1051
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 2: father starts using the name Villaplan to try and sound

1052
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: more French, right, Like, instead of p l a n A,

1053
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 2: it's p l a n E. Right, And Alexander is

1054
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:55,959
Speaker 2: not unique in the fact that he is a nut

1055
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: for football from an early age, but he's lonely in

1056
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: Algeria at that point because it's starting to take a hold,

1057
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 2: but it's still very new to the colony. Football doesn't

1058
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 2: reach North Africa until eighteen ninety seven, right, So by

1059
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: the time he's born, North Africa has had football for

1060
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 2: like eight years, right, and the first club hadn't been

1061
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 2: established in Algiers until the year before Alexander's birth. In

1062
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: nineteen oh eight, Josephin rolled his son in a military

1063
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 2: preparatory program that included a football team, right, So it's

1064
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: like a broader school thing and it's technically like an

1065
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: ROTC deal, but they also they have a football club, right,

1066
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: And so from the time he's a little kid, this

1067
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 2: kid is going to be one of the first people

1068
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: in North Africa period to play football, right. And he's

1069
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: again he's not just interested in it, he's really good

1070
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 2: at it. And his team, this first team he plays on,

1071
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 2: this first Algerian team wins the Youth North African Football

1072
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 2: Championship in nineteen thirteen nineteen fourteen, right, So he he

1073
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: exhibits excellence from an early age and wins helped win

1074
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: a competition with this team. Now, he's generally very good

1075
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 2: at athletics. He wins a diving competition when he's fifteen,

1076
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: and he's good enough at football. But by age sixteen

1077
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: he's made a name for himself as a player, and

1078
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: he's able to leave Algeria for good. Right in nineteen sixteen,

1079
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: he like bounces, he's never got to come back. He

1080
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 2: moves to set to live with his in France, to

1081
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 2: live with his uncles, and he joins the local club there,

1082
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 2: FC Set. Now the team was managed by a Scotsman,

1083
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 2: Victor Gibson, and as soon as Gibson got a look

1084
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 2: at Vilaplon, he decided his kid's got what it takes

1085
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 2: to go professional, right. You know, I say professional because

1086
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 2: that's how we would look at the team that Alexander's

1087
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: about to join. At this point, they're all still amateurs.

1088
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: Right.

1089
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to pay players, it's against the rules, right,

1090
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: But football is already a big business, and so if

1091
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: you want to get the best talent, you have to

1092
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: offer players something. You know, this isn't the kind of

1093
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 2: situation where there's as crooked a racket around it as

1094
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: like we have in the NCAA where you're just taking

1095
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 2: these kids in and not giving them shit and permanently

1096
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: injuring them. In a lot of cases, in order to

1097
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: make millions and millions of dollars off of them playing

1098
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: college ball, you actually have to provide an incentive. It

1099
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 2: just can't be their salary job to play football. So

1100
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: by the twenties, by the time that Alexander gets to France,

1101
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: a system is developed by which good players are offered jobs,

1102
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 2: other jobs right where it's like, hey, if you move

1103
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: to FC Set, we'll get you this job like managing

1104
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: a butcher shop and you don't have to come to work.

1105
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: You just get money from it, but you're technically employed, right,

1106
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: Or if you're really good, they'll be like, hey, if

1107
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: you move and you agree to work at this team

1108
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:49,959
Speaker 2: and play here for at least, you know, every many years,

1109
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: I'll give you a night club it's already operational, it's

1110
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 2: already selling. Or I'll give you a theater, right and

1111
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 2: you can see, here's the bank statements, this is how

1112
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 2: much money it makes, and that'll be your theater. And

1113
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: so you'll support yourself off of the income from this

1114
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 2: business that we're handing over to you. Right, that's how

1115
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 2: you get paid if you're like a top footballer. Right,

1116
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: So when he first comes to France, Alexander has to

1117
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: kind of take whatever they can give him. He's not

1118
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: immediately getting good deals, but within five years or so,

1119
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 2: he's one of the best players in the entire country. Right,

1120
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 2: in this first wave of football stars, he's one of

1121
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 2: the brightest stars. Like, he is good enough that in

1122
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: very short order he is getting poached, right, He's getting

1123
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: offered turnkey businesses and huge amounts of money. He's by

1124
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 2: the time he's in his early twenties, like twenty one

1125
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: to twenty two, he's verging on like rich because of

1126
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 2: how good he is at football and how much everyone

1127
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: wants him on their team. Alexander becomes the first Algerian

1128
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 2: pro football player in France. He's often called the Algerian

1129
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: and after a year and a half on Gibson's team,

1130
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: he's poached by a team in Vergus, which is sponsored

1131
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: by Perrier, the bottled water company. That's his Yeah, that's

1132
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: the sponsor of his second team. Is Perry A Right,

1133
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: they're like buying him a nightclub or something. I forget

1134
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: which business they hand him, but like he's getting different

1135
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 2: business He's accumulating businesses basically during this period of time.

1136
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 2: Now he once perrier gets them, his original team recruits

1137
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 2: him back. You know, they're all offering you know, different

1138
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 2: jobs and whatnot to do this. But he's good enough that,

1139
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 2: you know, he keeps getting poached, and so he gets

1140
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 2: poached back by his original team, and in the nineteen

1141
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 2: twenty seven he gets poached by a team in nim

1142
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: who promised that he'll be given a business of his own,

1143
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 2: which will you know, really make him wealthy if he

1144
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: continues to play for them. So he moves to Neme,

1145
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 2: which is where he becomes known as the best ball

1146
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 2: header in the country and one of the best passers.

1147
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: Do I know what a ballheader is? No am I

1148
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: giggling a little when I wrote it.

1149
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 3: Is it someone who hites a ball with their head?

1150
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 2: I think that's probably it, right or not. There's a

1151
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: lot of anything about it, at least right. I've seen

1152
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: one professional European match and everybody was hitting the ball

1153
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 2: with their head. So that's my guess is he's the

1154
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: best at ballheading, which also probably is giving in some cte.

1155
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 2: He's later going to exhibit some signs of maybe, you know,

1156
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: the kind of aggression that you sometimes get when you've

1157
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: repeatedly taken on head injuries for sporting purposes. But he's

1158
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 2: really good. He's the best ballheader in France. I'm sorry,

1159
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 2: I'm seven. He's really good at passing. He wins a

1160
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 2: France cap, which is a big football award, in a

1161
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 2: game against Belgium in nineteen twenty six, and in short

1162
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 2: order he's made the captain of this team in nime. Right,

1163
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: So he's by nineteen twenty six, he is at the

1164
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 2: top of the world, right, or he's close to. He's

1165
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 2: actually going to raise some from this, but he is.

1166
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: He is rich, he's famous, he has succeeded. Right, This

1167
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 2: life is going as well for him as it could

1168
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 2: possibly be going for somebody in his situation.

1169
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: Right, So he's gonna become a huge fucking Nazi.

1170
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 2: No, he's gonna He's going to become a huge fucking Nazi.

1171
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 2: He's going to destroy all of the cool guys. Yeah,

1172
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: it's gonna be great.

1173
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 3: He has talent, he has opportunity, and he's just going

1174
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 3: to become a complete monster.

1175
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: That's right. He is going to nuke it because he's

1176
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 2: an asshole and then he's going to become a Nazis.

1177
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: It's going to be cool.

1178
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: What if I did uh fascism? That sounds yeah, yeah, yeah,

1179
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: you know what.

1180
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it. But he doesn't even have the

1181
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 2: moral consistency to be like an ethical fact like not ethical,

1182
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 2: but like he's not a fascist ideologically, it's just where

1183
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 2: the money is. He doesn't even give a shit about fascism.

1184
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 2: Like that's how much he's. It's one of those like

1185
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 2: uh fucking Walter from the Big Lebowski moments of like

1186
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: he doesn't even have any ethos, you know, he's but yeah,

1187
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: we'll talk about that, but first, Danna, let's talk about

1188
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 2: your pluggables.

1189
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 3: My pluggables. Uh. My instagram is Danas Schwartz with three

1190
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 3: z's at the end. Two extra disease uh, and my podcasked.

1191
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 3: Noble Blood is about historical nobles and hoax is a

1192
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 3: brand new show talking about historical hoaxes. Please go check

1193
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 3: it out, listen to it, like, subscribe, rate, review, all

1194
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 3: of the above.

1195
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: Excellent. We'll do all of that, and you know, do

1196
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 2: something else. Go try to conquer Algeria or you know

1197
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: what people have been doing that conquer France. It's been

1198
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 2: a long time. It's been like it's been almost one

1199
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 2: hundred years since any it's been like eighty years since

1200
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: anyone conquered France. Go do it. You can take them,

1201
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 2: all right, Yeah, I think you got it. I think

1202
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: you got it, you know, Thank you so much. Just

1203
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: don't go in through Belgium. That doesn't work.

1204
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for this encouragement. I've been

1205
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 3: waiting for someone to tell me that I'm capable of

1206
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 3: conquering France.

1207
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 2: Sophie brought that up before the call. She was like,

1208
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: you know, Dana, really she's got what it takes to

1209
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: conquer France. I think she just needs, you know, some encouragement.

1210
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: So we're offering that. I'm also offering two hundred thousand

1211
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 2: men and tanks and arms transports. Don't ask where I

1212
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 2: got them. Yeah, yeah, it'll be an it'll be.

1213
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 3: An amazing all right.

1214
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: That's the episode.

1215
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1216
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1217
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,919
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1218
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1219
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1220
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1221
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: At Behind the Bastards