Speaker 1: Cost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and Gentlemen.
Speaker 1: So last week we did a special one on one
Speaker 1: with Kathleen Hannah and you guys to check that out,
Speaker 1: and we're here to do it again. Shout out to
Speaker 1: the rest of the team Supreme. I'm here with one
Speaker 1: of my hip hop peers, someone who lit a path
Speaker 1: for me. He's a producer and author, film director and curator,
Speaker 1: a world class performer, one of the best coaches in
Speaker 1: hip hop. He's also releasing a classical music album, A
Speaker 1: Ballet through Mud, inspired by some of his childhood lyrics,
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that. Plus is illustrious
Speaker 1: thirty plus years as a band leader, producer, His technique
Speaker 1: is so much more. I can't believe that we finally
Speaker 1: finally got the one and only Riza or in Court
Speaker 1: Love Supreme. How you doing, sir?
Speaker 2: Pace? Pace Pace is bog Bong and blessings and all.
Speaker 1: That, Yo, you gotta tell me the history of bang
Speaker 1: bong like I thought Tarik made that. When did bog
Speaker 1: bong become your what I assume is your greeting and
Speaker 1: your exit?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Well, bong bong is like you know, growing up in
Speaker 3: my hood, me and my cousins and uh, you know
Speaker 3: Staples in Project Ghosts. We have a conversation and the
Speaker 3: conversation would have a little not that many words in it.
Speaker 3: It'd be like, yo, son, No, I'm not pushed through
Speaker 3: my name Bong quoting like that's bog bong.
Speaker 2: You know what I name bog and what happened?
Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna make a woo
Speaker 1: nomount of pier and say that bang bong is sort
Speaker 1: of a wu tang version of an anamount of pier
Speaker 1: like your your batman words bang bong bang by Yeah.
Speaker 2: That means that be thing. You know, it's good, There
Speaker 2: is all good. Where is it at you feeling? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Bang bong bong?
Speaker 1: We here? I got you, I got you. How you
Speaker 1: doing today? Bro? How's it going for you? You're You're
Speaker 1: in La right now as we speak.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm in La right now. Q till just broke out.
Speaker 3: We was brainstorming on some ideas. I know you already
Speaker 3: shouted them out, real shouted them out, but we can't
Speaker 3: shout it out enough. Congratulating them for the Rock and
Speaker 3: Roll Hall of Fame with Trial call Quest, It's just
Speaker 3: such a to me, a blessing for hip hop in particular.
Speaker 3: It's a blessing for them, of course, first and foremost,
Speaker 3: but even a blessing for hip hop.
Speaker 2: Each time one of us get inducted into that world.
Speaker 3: It just shows the validation of the culture are permeating,
Speaker 3: you know, beyond its original thought scope at the end
Speaker 3: of the day. Right in the beginning, it was like,
Speaker 3: you know, certain things were unfathomable.
Speaker 2: We can't you couldn't imagine that what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: My first house is down the street from the Rock
Speaker 3: and Roll Hall of Fame, my first house in Cleveland, Ohio.
Speaker 1: Cleveland, Okay, you know.
Speaker 3: Just seeing my pigs getting a chance to enter there,
Speaker 3: it's a blessing. And yeah, I was just chopping up
Speaker 3: with him, like before I jumped on with you.
Speaker 1: Okay. It's rather notable that both you and him sort
Speaker 1: of in the same space. For hip hop enthusiasts, at
Speaker 1: least of my age, we always acknowledge that second week
Speaker 1: of November. For a lot of hip hop hids, if
Speaker 1: the beginning of the classic hip hop period starts, some
Speaker 1: say either you know, it starts with criminal minded. A
Speaker 1: lot of people feel as though the end of the
Speaker 1: classic period is the double release of Midnight Marauders and
Speaker 1: thirty six Chambers. I know of his story, especially with
Speaker 1: his cannon. But for you, though, I would like to
Speaker 1: know that particular day in November of nineteen ninety three
Speaker 1: into the thirty six Chambers comes out. Are there any
Speaker 1: sentimental memories that you have?
Speaker 3: You know, for us, we was actually on a promo
Speaker 3: tour at the same time, right, so you know, I'll
Speaker 3: recall all of us being in one of those fifteen
Speaker 3: passer white fans just on the destination record store signing
Speaker 3: or radio, you know, just on that promo tour. Imber,
Speaker 3: you know, we had mo Jo with us. He represented
Speaker 3: the radio for Loud Records in r C A.
Speaker 2: Charm. I don't know if you remember. Charm used to
Speaker 2: be from Tommy Boyce. She came up with the r
Speaker 2: C A M.
Speaker 3: And I actually remember the kid Lee Royd, the guy
Speaker 3: who we used to is just like probably heckle him
Speaker 3: and dealing with the rule was was like you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a missing right and this day
Speaker 3: was like I think our you know, even my.
Speaker 2: My feelings was, you know, I used the word elation.
Speaker 3: I was late right, feeling like, wow, this this album
Speaker 3: is being shared.
Speaker 2: With the world, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And and you know, the confidence which was at the
Speaker 3: highest level.
Speaker 2: I gotta say that.
Speaker 3: You know, we didn't enter with our music without the
Speaker 3: confidence of surety of that it was gonna be some.
Speaker 2: Ship, you know what I mean. We was like, we
Speaker 2: kind of like some ship. Yo, it's going it's gonna
Speaker 2: fuck niggas up. Excuse my language, but this.
Speaker 3: Is like, you know, you want to take me back
Speaker 3: to that. You gotta take me back to the grid.
Speaker 3: So it's like Nigga's gonna be screaming this ship.
Speaker 2: You'll watch. We're gonna fuck him up. They're gonna shake niggas,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: We was on it, right, And the interesting thing that
Speaker 3: happens by the evening, we're going to different record stores.
Speaker 2: Snoop Dog comes out that day as well. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you record.
Speaker 1: That, Okay, I do you remember Doggy Style coming out
Speaker 1: around November.
Speaker 2: And either that day or the week before.
Speaker 3: But but Master Killer gets in the car with that,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and throws that in you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, and it's like, oh, okay, and
Speaker 3: travers already was already family like, you know, our history
Speaker 3: was already tied in so.
Speaker 2: So you know, it was just one of those it was.
Speaker 3: It was a great day for hip hop, to be
Speaker 3: quite honest, you know what I mean, And listening to
Speaker 3: those albums while.
Speaker 2: We're driving listening to our album, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It was just like it felt like hip hop had
Speaker 3: a chance again, because yo, how we felt.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we talk about this a lot, but.
Speaker 3: You just you just point out, you know, criminal minded,
Speaker 3: you know, talking about you know, Kim in eighty six,
Speaker 3: Carris went eighty seven. You know, by the time we
Speaker 3: got to ninety one, it wasn't happening like that no more, right,
Speaker 3: you know, eighty seven and eighty nine you might have
Speaker 3: got it, you know, ninety ninety one, it's it went
Speaker 3: into a different chamber. And were very dissatisfied with that,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and even ourselves when we
Speaker 3: were striving to get out there.
Speaker 2: It's like the.
Speaker 3: Industry was trying to chase that shame. And when we
Speaker 3: got a chance just to say, oh, we're doing hip
Speaker 3: hop like you can't. And I didn't hope, I hope,
Speaker 3: not hope. I hope, I hope not say this egotistically
Speaker 3: quest but you can't not deny that even if Wu
Speaker 3: Tang Clan eventually ends up in the Rock and Low
Speaker 3: Hall of thing, right, but you can't deny that first album.
Speaker 2: The only category for it at that time was hip hop.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like you could take some
Speaker 3: of the albums and no disrespect, Like you could take
Speaker 3: mc hammer and you could say that maybe it's funk,
Speaker 3: maybe it's whatever it you know, that's because he's rapping
Speaker 3: over it.
Speaker 2: Don't make it hip hop. You see what I mean?
Speaker 1: Now, with the rival of Wu Tang from my perspective,
Speaker 1: especially the genius relentless way that you guys kind of
Speaker 1: served us between ninety three and ninety five with the
Speaker 1: five solo records, the group album, like it felt like okay,
Speaker 1: hip hop is is steady, like this is this is
Speaker 1: our lane? And little did we know, Like after nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven, just a change happened in which it was
Speaker 1: kind of like a tsunami with with where hip hop,
Speaker 1: at least the hip hop culture that you and I
Speaker 1: are used to, and a lot of that had to
Speaker 1: do with sample clearances and you know, sort of people
Speaker 1: seeing it as a business, whereas you know, we could
Speaker 1: get away with whatever because not many people were looking
Speaker 1: down our throats as creators. But then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it's like you got to clear the snare and this
Speaker 1: hook and all that stuff. But for you, in hindsight,
Speaker 1: did you realize that the Wu Tang's entry was going
Speaker 1: to sort of be the end of something that didn't
Speaker 1: seem like it was ever going to end as far
Speaker 1: as that particular spirit of hip hop is concerned.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I saw that as the end,
Speaker 3: because I think it waved right, it went, It came
Speaker 3: in different forms even now some people say, well, Bizzelda
Speaker 3: is a version of that, right, So you know, at
Speaker 3: one point it was in odd future was another version
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I don't think it ended.
Speaker 1: But what is there?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: The spirit is there, but kind.
Speaker 2: Of the the sad.
Speaker 3: But from my perspective, right, so being in it is different. Right,
Speaker 3: So from my perspective, it's almost like it was like
Speaker 3: we were counted. Okay, hip hop was counted by business,
Speaker 3: countered by legalities and interpolation laws, counted even by how.
Speaker 2: Can I say this hot ninety seven?
Speaker 3: Like from Master Reflects Sat down with me, and you know,
Speaker 3: he apologized to me, right, and he basically was like yo,
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you know, there was
Speaker 3: an agenda to stop it, like to like to to
Speaker 3: be like, YO, cut that off, turn this up, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And if you're you know.
Speaker 3: A white Castle burger is a white Castle burger, right,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But they you know, we lined up for that, right,
Speaker 2: not knowing the law something effect.
Speaker 3: Of it versus something home cook. And so I'm naive,
Speaker 3: to be quite frank with your brother, I'm pretty naive
Speaker 3: about the world in a way because especially at that
Speaker 3: time of my life, I'm focused on the world. I'm
Speaker 3: trying to see right right, Like I'm a type of
Speaker 3: dude that well.
Speaker 1: That's called living in the present, which is what it
Speaker 1: should be doing, right Exactly.
Speaker 3: Until I saw five Deli Venoms back in Blockbuster, I
Speaker 3: wasn't happy, you know what I mean, because it's like
Speaker 3: I got to go to the bootlegs store for that,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I wanted whatever we was
Speaker 3: bringing to the culture to be a valuable you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. I wanted to see a Spoting Man
Speaker 3: movie or I Am Man movie, like so so it
Speaker 3: was so I'm living in that narrow bubble of striving
Speaker 3: to express to the world the childhood that I thought
Speaker 3: was healthier and better creatively. Right, So then I don't
Speaker 3: pay attention that I'm being countered. And even though I
Speaker 3: was being counted, you know, and when I was loved,
Speaker 3: I was being counted by my peers and even by
Speaker 3: you know, by the system itself.
Speaker 2: You know, I learned that years later. But fortunately, fortunately
Speaker 2: for wo there's still a level.
Speaker 3: Of purity in us as as people you know, like
Speaker 3: ghost face is just always go these ghost face It's
Speaker 3: like that's it. And so fortunately for that, whatever happened
Speaker 3: out in the world or whatever was changing, we didn't
Speaker 3: go so far. You know, they go too far to
Speaker 3: chase you, you know what I mean, they ain't gonna say that,
Speaker 3: and you know, look this way and look this way
Speaker 3: and checked out, checked out, but you didn't go too
Speaker 3: far to chase it.
Speaker 2: And I so, so I guess you know the answer
Speaker 2: your question is like, in.
Speaker 3: Hindsight, I didn't see the ending because it didn't end
Speaker 3: in me. But in hindsight and learning what I know now,
Speaker 3: it's like, man, motherfuckers was actually trying to kick me
Speaker 3: out the room.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I feel you so right now. I'm working on the Earth,
Speaker 1: Wind and Fire documentary, and a lot of what I
Speaker 1: know about your modus operandi is sort of parallel with
Speaker 1: where Maurice White was informing Earth would in fire, him
Speaker 1: using astrology, him having an affinity for the number nine, literally,
Speaker 1: like him writing manifesting a manifesto of what he wants
Speaker 1: the group to do, what he wants the group to achieve,
Speaker 1: things that I've known you've done as far as like
Speaker 1: planning out what I'm going to organize, who's going to
Speaker 1: be in the circle, and how we're going to do it.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of cats don't know that that's metaphysics
Speaker 1: or manifesting, but that's exactly how Maurice White structured Earth
Speaker 1: would in Fire. Like I don't know if I'm necessarily
Speaker 1: a coach in the way that you were a coach,
Speaker 1: but how exhausting is it, especially in those first five years,
Speaker 1: How exhausting is it in being the head coach or
Speaker 1: the the facto leader of this empire? First of all,
Speaker 1: why nine members for the Wu Tang Clint?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Was that on purpose or was that just like who
Speaker 1: was there.
Speaker 2: No, No, At first it was eight right.
Speaker 1: Okay, I understand Master Killer's situation, so I still count
Speaker 1: him in terms of.
Speaker 2: Oh he became nine by the time.
Speaker 3: You know, first it was eight, right, like the eight
Speaker 3: points on the star, right, Okay, that's why. That's why
Speaker 3: I look, I sai, I'm the seven in the center
Speaker 3: of the eight point star.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So a lot of things that was aspiring me was mathematics,
Speaker 2: knowledge of self, knowing.
Speaker 3: That a determined idea is his power was a nuclear bomb.
Speaker 3: In fact, it took a determinent idea to make can
Speaker 3: nuclear ball. So having that impulse over me, and knowing
Speaker 3: that the MC's that was in my community that I
Speaker 3: was friends with buddies where it had demo tapes with,
Speaker 3: knowing that the industry actually needed it in my opinion,
Speaker 3: like the industry needed a joke of the real people
Speaker 3: that's living it, right, and not just some of the
Speaker 3: people and and hope helping out saying this in a
Speaker 3: non offensive way, but not just some of the.
Speaker 2: People who was like already in or who went through
Speaker 2: their experience.
Speaker 3: It's like crazy thing about Wu Tang that's kind of
Speaker 3: crazy than it's it's.
Speaker 2: Seven felons in ute mm hmm.
Speaker 3: So that's that's the people that's written off, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, it's probably man, it might be eight
Speaker 3: high school dropouts, you know what I'm saying. So this
Speaker 3: is the people that that ain't gonna get a chance
Speaker 3: in all reality. And yet this is the people that's
Speaker 3: that's loving hip hop, living hip hop right, their lyrics
Speaker 3: and misspelling the words in some phases, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. And to my ear and to my knowledge
Speaker 3: of the of the industry itself, I was like, Nah,
Speaker 3: this band of MC's right can naturally come through and
Speaker 3: rock the world. And I was and I'll have the
Speaker 3: validation of course of the USA in od B right,
Speaker 3: I have thedation as well, meaning they agreed and when
Speaker 3: the rest of the klan agreed to the idea, right,
Speaker 3: and we all live by mathematics.
Speaker 2: Who says, once you make an.
Speaker 3: Agreement, you got to live up to that, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, you got to live through your world. Your
Speaker 3: world is your bond. Right, So once we agree that this,
Speaker 3: you know that this idea, this course of action is
Speaker 3: the course of action to take to go ahead, and
Speaker 3: you know we're and we're starving for domination, like that
Speaker 3: wasn't a target for us, right, a target to be
Speaker 3: number one U once once we agree that we're going
Speaker 3: to do that, and then somebody at the front of
Speaker 3: of the of the sphere at that time, I was
Speaker 3: like the tip of the spear. I see the target.
Speaker 3: I just need y'all to fit the force behind me,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean with that aspiration and inspiration.
Speaker 3: Yes that I saw that clearly, even if nobody else
Speaker 3: saw it, right, Because sometimes you may ask another rouple
Speaker 3: member that you said, now he didn't see it, or
Speaker 3: he didn't.
Speaker 2: See it here once and y'all saw it, or once
Speaker 2: y'all believe.
Speaker 1: Did they believe you? Like were they all in the
Speaker 1: room at the same time, or was it just like
Speaker 1: sort of some Hollywood Yeah, let's do lunch it like okay,
Speaker 1: we'll make a record like.
Speaker 2: We gather it, we build you know.
Speaker 3: I verbalized it, you know, and look one of the
Speaker 3: Timple quotes of it that I.
Speaker 2: Used for always. I'm a god of analogies, So my
Speaker 2: analogy to them was like.
Speaker 3: Yo, the only way we're going to get there is
Speaker 3: if you guys, let me drive the bus with no
Speaker 3: questions and you always be the passengers, and I promise
Speaker 3: I'll get us there, but I don't need nobody, like
Speaker 3: it has to be a dictatorship in all reality.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: That was that was like, that's what I need, right,
Speaker 3: because I'm gonna with outfls okay, given moment, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, anybody can knock anybody out if it's on
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: Because there's no chumps here.
Speaker 3: It's all we're bill men, right, So therefore conflict can't
Speaker 3: exist because the conflict would be self destruction. And so
Speaker 3: we all got to agree that the abbot is driving
Speaker 3: the bus and when we get there, I said, I
Speaker 3: need five years to get there though, And when I
Speaker 3: get there then it's cool. And we got there, right,
Speaker 3: But everybody agreed, and even when it got a little
Speaker 3: weird here or weird there, the agreement always came up.
Speaker 3: And in the reaffirmation of the agreement. So so these
Speaker 3: four other brothers like nah Son, that ain't right because
Speaker 3: we gave our word, right, you know. And so so
Speaker 3: that's I mean, that's a long answer to the question.
Speaker 3: But let me add on one mother, one other thing.
Speaker 3: When you talk about you know how winning fire yourself,
Speaker 3: you know, Maurice White, yourself myself as this coach position. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's taxing. It's not easy, you know. I had a
Speaker 3: lyric about it. I said something about I said, rhyming
Speaker 3: to me is easier than breathing, and making beasts for
Speaker 3: me is easier than peeing.
Speaker 2: But fucking with the Wu Tang clan, it's like riding
Speaker 2: down a thousand foot hill through pine trees and snow
Speaker 2: on one ski.
Speaker 1: I see that, right, But I know that right, right.
Speaker 2: We take that ride. So it was tough, right, and
Speaker 2: it was tough.
Speaker 3: I will never deny that I got you, but it
Speaker 3: was actually in hindsight now and living as the man
Speaker 3: I am today, it was also the greatest forging of
Speaker 3: myself that I ever could have gotten, Like I would
Speaker 3: not be the father I am, the man that I
Speaker 3: am if those experiences didn't happen in my life. If
Speaker 3: those whether there was arguments or challenges or even submissions
Speaker 3: to ideas, if I didn't experience that, right, It's like
Speaker 3: my best example, I was doing my film, right, I
Speaker 3: had one of people working for me yo, right, I
Speaker 3: have a list actors, and I had all these personalities.
Speaker 3: If I didn't have already dealt with that in my
Speaker 3: youth with the WU I wouldn't know how to deal
Speaker 3: with it then, right, And and the way I handled it,
Speaker 3: the executives they gave me another job because it's like, Yo,
Speaker 3: this guy could handle some shit.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have self doubts because of everything you've done?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking about scoring directing, Like, have you
Speaker 1: ever met a challenge in which you were sort of like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure?
Speaker 3: I mean, and of course, right, but I would just
Speaker 3: say that if there's a solution that exists, I strived
Speaker 3: for the solution.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I remember when we were as young, they say nobody
Speaker 3: is perfect, right, And when I was about seventeen eighteen
Speaker 3: years old, I had already you know, I knew one
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty lessons already. So one of the twenty lessons,
Speaker 3: you know what that is? I gotta spain that, right. So,
Speaker 3: and then brothers move on to what they call plus lessons.
Speaker 3: And with plus lessons, you know, you're you're learning outside
Speaker 3: of the teachings, right, Other brothers contribution to the teachings.
Speaker 3: And then I became started writing my own, right, and
Speaker 3: so I wrote one called Striving for Perfection, right, And
Speaker 3: as I was getting this out, of my system. The
Speaker 3: question was, we always say that somebody is imperfect, But
Speaker 3: if I accept that I'm imperfect, then I'll never have perfection.
Speaker 3: So I can so I gotta know, I got to
Speaker 3: accept that I'm perfect, that there is a solution to perfection.
Speaker 2: Right, and if there is that, then I can be that,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And so by writing that out into a textual form
Speaker 3: and reading it and passing it to my students and
Speaker 3: memorizing it and quoting it, it gave me an extra
Speaker 3: level of confidence of like, you know what, at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, there's a mathematical solution to it.
Speaker 2: And when I say mathematical, mathematical.
Speaker 3: Could be a physical, spiritual, emotional, social, economic, right, mental.
Speaker 3: It ain't just arithmetical, you know what I mean, or
Speaker 3: adding division and subtracting.
Speaker 2: It's almost like, yo, that might require a spiritual solution.
Speaker 3: That might BEQUI your economic solution, right, that might be
Speaker 3: QUI your physical solution, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And so knowing that and being confident that those solutions exist, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And I always say our perator is due to a law.
Speaker 3: I could go into those bags and bring that and
Speaker 3: utilize it to find that answer.
Speaker 2: And I'll just say this last piece on it.
Speaker 3: Artistically though, it's like art duties in the eye of
Speaker 3: the behold the right.
Speaker 2: So first I gotta just see it as being beautiful,
Speaker 2: all right?
Speaker 1: I take that. Do you have a spiritual practice of
Speaker 1: meditation or like, do you write affirmations down?
Speaker 2: Do you?
Speaker 1: Or is it just something in you, a confidence in
Speaker 1: you that says I'm gonna achieve that.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's it's internal now right at this age. Right,
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna keep going to mathematics on this conversation.
Speaker 3: I don't have good a chance.
Speaker 1: I understand it.
Speaker 3: Good hit me once a man hits forty, right, according
Speaker 3: to mathematics. For us, for freedom, culture and freedom right,
Speaker 3: culture's your way of life. Freedom is the freeer dome
Speaker 3: from ignorance and foolishness that keeps you dumb or numb
Speaker 3: to the world.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So if you have culture and freedom right, you get
Speaker 3: your forties, you now should be free from.
Speaker 2: All that other shit that you dealt with.
Speaker 3: Physically free, you know what I mean, because your body
Speaker 3: is already now evolved. And so once that happened in
Speaker 3: my life, I accepted that. So I accept every mathematic
Speaker 3: of my life in my thirties. It says three is
Speaker 3: for understanding. So you got to understand what you're going through.
Speaker 3: So first you got to understand knowledge, understand wisdom, right,
Speaker 3: understand even understanding that.
Speaker 2: So therefore your understanding becomes what understood. Right, got to
Speaker 2: understand coach.
Speaker 3: All these different degrees, I keep those applied to myself,
Speaker 3: and therefore I'm able to forecast myself or at least
Speaker 3: know where I'm at in space and time.
Speaker 2: And that's a big equation for us with man, women
Speaker 2: and child.
Speaker 3: Strive to always know where you're at in space and time.
Speaker 3: Some dudes are still in the nineties or the two thousands,
Speaker 3: like hold on, son, take a look where you're at
Speaker 3: in the space and time now right now, and then
Speaker 3: also know where the rest of your cipher is and
Speaker 3: the rest of the things are around you. So of
Speaker 3: course our.
Speaker 2: Lesson teach just a fast and to pray. So yeah,
Speaker 2: faster than prayer is healthy, right, super healthy.
Speaker 3: But the first lesson is knowledge, it says do Knowledge
Speaker 3: is not just a word of uh. That's why Kim
Speaker 3: said right in the lyric, no, the ledge, but knowledge
Speaker 3: becomes an act, a physical act, right, so it ain't
Speaker 3: just reading. So the mathematics that knowledge is to look, listen, observe,
Speaker 3: and also respect. Now you may look at something, you
Speaker 3: may listen to something, but did you observe it?
Speaker 2: And did you respect it?
Speaker 3: And if you miss any of those components, you're not
Speaker 3: doing the knowledge because knowledge is the basics foundation and
Speaker 3: off that foundation of walking into a room and look first,
Speaker 3: who observed it?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? You listen and you respected it?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: That's part of my uh, you know, spiritual affirmation. I
Speaker 3: guess that ask your question and my my surety of
Speaker 3: my movements.
Speaker 1: So what does that mean for you now that you're
Speaker 1: fifty five? Right?
Speaker 3: So now power power, that's truth top of truth. That's
Speaker 3: why I'm talking like this now. I wouldn't even have
Speaker 3: spoke like this because I would have kept it more personal,
Speaker 3: right Like even when I just said to you earlier
Speaker 3: about yoall they told me that they shut the door
Speaker 3: on me yo, and they apologized to that, and I'm
Speaker 3: cool with that.
Speaker 2: I remember I told one of my peers.
Speaker 1: He was like, Yo, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Sabotaged your whole shit. I said, yeah, you kind of
Speaker 2: fucked me up for like a week. That's it.
Speaker 1: I believe that you're speaking of the infamous Hot ninety
Speaker 1: seven summer stage incident. See I was in Europe at.
Speaker 2: That time, so I said, yeah, you guys, wasn't in Europe.
Speaker 1: We were, I mean we were living in Europe for
Speaker 1: like six months, six to seven months, especially during the summer.
Speaker 1: But so basically, an incident happened in Hot ninety seven
Speaker 1: that rubbed them the wrong way, and they were basically like,
Speaker 1: we're not playing you guys anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Basically, first of all, we were sabotaged, which is cool.
Speaker 1: Happened.
Speaker 3: Hey, that's a fight fight, you know, it's like the
Speaker 3: five heart Beat. Remember before they came out and guy
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 2: This next bancterd, they're better than the Temptations.
Speaker 3: And trying to monkey minch it right and Yo, at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you know, a couple of
Speaker 3: members spoke up on that on the spot, fuck that
Speaker 3: you're fuck y'all right, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: one of the members was like, yo, fuck Hot nice
Speaker 3: on the mic to the crowd. Get the crowd. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it goes like for Hot ninety seven, right, So they
Speaker 3: took that personal, but in reality, Bhutang built.
Speaker 2: Hot ninety seven.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 3: Okay, So all of a sudden, you're trying to tell
Speaker 3: us that we got to do this and change that
Speaker 3: when when we are, we're the one that brought to
Speaker 3: your audience. Right, the audience is the proof of the
Speaker 3: pudding is that we got thirty thousand kids in front
Speaker 3: of us, right, not just from a summer jam.
Speaker 2: You're on tour, raised against the machine.
Speaker 3: So we are still that power magnetic to audiences. And
Speaker 3: yet you're not spending our mute because we didn't hit
Speaker 3: you with a hook.
Speaker 2: My first song didn't have no hook. He was gonna
Speaker 2: hit you with a hook when we ready.
Speaker 3: To hit you with a hook, protecting that had no hook,
Speaker 3: we won't Tryum, this is lyricism. But when they pulled
Speaker 3: the plug, it's a it's a chain reaction though they's
Speaker 3: just first, that's that's our biggest New York was the
Speaker 3: biggest market, right, and it's all a trend setting market,
Speaker 3: right and then em It's at the same time had
Speaker 3: sister stations, So yo, we plug pull it here, we
Speaker 3: pull it here, and Homeboy over here. We're gonna pull
Speaker 3: it over here too, right, and that's all good, Like
Speaker 3: I said. The funny thing about it is, you know,
Speaker 3: as it's now explained to me or even apologize or
Speaker 3: even admitted to I. Just like I said, I'm so
Speaker 3: naive and sh like I said, I was why he
Speaker 3: fucked up for like a week.
Speaker 2: And it ain't mean nothing to me, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 3: Because it never governed what I was doing. It never
Speaker 3: made me be who I am. That's something that artists
Speaker 3: sometimes lose faith.
Speaker 1: Well, and you were outsiders anyway, so it's not like
Speaker 1: that didn't matter. You existed because you found ways to
Speaker 1: get in without the mainstream, right right.
Speaker 3: And also the add to that, we also existed because
Speaker 3: we were us. But it's almost like, look, most people
Speaker 3: are not gonna be able to get the s, the
Speaker 3: twelve tables. They gotta like you gotta work up to
Speaker 3: that Gemini. Yeah, you might not even know what that is,
Speaker 3: right right. So it's just like, Yo, I'm okay, I'm
Speaker 3: okay being rare.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna being like you gotta come over here to
Speaker 2: get that.
Speaker 1: Here's the strange connection between you and nine that Rage tour.
Speaker 1: We wound up replacing you guys on the Rage Tour.
Speaker 2: I got it. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Number one that literally changed our lives. Like that helped
Speaker 1: me buy a house, which subsequently helped me buy equipment,
Speaker 1: then help me by you know, helped me make things
Speaker 1: fall apart, like literally, you know, at that time, we
Speaker 1: were sort of living hand to mouth, gig the gig.
Speaker 1: You know, we're cool this week, We're gonna be broke
Speaker 1: next week, hopefully a gig comes in. Oh, we got
Speaker 1: a gig. We'll make it. But that was the first
Speaker 1: time that we were able to sustain monetarily.
Speaker 2: At least consistency.
Speaker 1: That helped. Yeah, that helped in ways you don't even matter.
Speaker 1: So that was a blessing to me. But in hindsight,
Speaker 1: I always wonder because you know, you guys are beetles
Speaker 1: and are rolling stones. So it's like, do you wish
Speaker 1: that you guys had seen that tour all the way through?
Speaker 1: Because I would imagine that you guys would have just
Speaker 1: toured the world, and really it would have been just
Speaker 1: another level, a higher level of madness for you guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm happy how it turned out, why I'm here right now.
Speaker 1: Literally that that that changed my life. But from your perspective,
Speaker 1: do you wish that you like saw that tour through.
Speaker 3: First of all, I'm glad that as you tell me
Speaker 3: that I didn't know that that our era because we
Speaker 3: made an error that was wrong for us not to
Speaker 3: complete that tool, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. It was a miscompulation by the
Speaker 2: crew right not to do that.
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, that's the outfulness
Speaker 3: of whoa if you really look at it. The promise
Speaker 3: was given to me in nineteen ninety two. This is
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven. The time is up, okay, And it
Speaker 3: was acts in a democratic way. First of all, it
Speaker 3: was happening like even without like on some of those
Speaker 3: on some nights of that tour.
Speaker 2: You may see only father of us there, yea.
Speaker 3: And so it was already starting to be like yo,
Speaker 3: brothers come in and out when they when they was
Speaker 3: feeling it, you know what I mean. But then it
Speaker 3: was like yo, you do we want to I think
Speaker 3: it was in Chicago, was like you want to stay
Speaker 3: on the tour or not?
Speaker 2: And we took a vote and brothers want it off.
Speaker 1: Right. Do you think that that whole experience was just
Speaker 1: jarring for them to get to that level. Do you
Speaker 1: think that there was just a fear of seeing it
Speaker 1: through was it just too much because my first night
Speaker 1: of that ship, I was scared to death, like all
Speaker 1: those kids jumping in. What the fuck is this?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: I think in hindsight, I've heard some of the brothers
Speaker 3: bring that up, like maybe there was some type of
Speaker 3: fears and somebody. The plan was this toward raids in
Speaker 3: the summer m m. And then we hit the colleges
Speaker 3: during the homecoming season.
Speaker 2: Mm hm, right, But I think the crew wanted to.
Speaker 3: Go home first. They wanted to fill this called the
Speaker 3: Black Law first. When we dropped the new album, right,
Speaker 3: they wanted to start there. I say, now, don't start there,
Speaker 3: because that's what we left for at right, So let's
Speaker 3: start here and they come back around.
Speaker 1: To get the international first and then come.
Speaker 3: And the connection of those type of big concerts, especially
Speaker 3: when you're young, right, both big concerts. If you're not, like,
Speaker 3: how can I explain this? Look, some artists need to
Speaker 3: like have their leg touched by the person in a
Speaker 3: thousand seedar like they need to they need to smell it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And some artists could fucking sit in the middle of
Speaker 3: the stage empty on a stool with thirty thousand people
Speaker 3: in front of them and just play their guitar and
Speaker 3: and and hit.
Speaker 2: You with the Jannet chaplain, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Right, And so in us we had that mix of
Speaker 3: those who would be that way like like, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm probably more of a I'm probably the rock and
Speaker 3: roll energy of the crew, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: the sense of that methods also the stadium energy of
Speaker 3: the crew, right, are more like yo, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: Knock you out street hustler club of the crew.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So because of that, because of that type of energy
Speaker 3: at that point in our lives, you know, twenty five
Speaker 3: years old, twenty six years old, whatever, I think that
Speaker 3: it may have been some type of I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't use the word fear, but definitely uncomfortability. But
Speaker 3: I'm all say this, and I said it a hundred
Speaker 3: times and I'll say it again.
Speaker 1: It was an I'm going to circle your whole career.
Speaker 1: But I have to know the night that you made
Speaker 1: protect your neck. One, how long did that session take?
Speaker 1: And two? How did you determine the sort of format
Speaker 1: of the song? Because you know, you Got has eight
Speaker 1: bars and Old Dirty has twenty four bars and just
Speaker 1: that has twenty four. But Go says sixteen, Like, how
Speaker 1: did you measure and plan that out? Like as far
Speaker 1: as the order is concerned, and no hook or none
Speaker 1: of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, it was a two day session. Actually.
Speaker 3: That was one of those songs where you got to
Speaker 3: come back to the studio, right, Okay, fact ghost went
Speaker 3: home and rewrote this verse.
Speaker 1: There's another version with a different verse. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well at the time, he was also boast was going through.
Speaker 3: Ghost was also evolved in right, right, Dirty was evolved,
Speaker 3: was evolved, you know what I mean. Meth and Deck
Speaker 3: and Ray Ray was amazing, right when Ray didn't have
Speaker 3: a lot of bars written, he had stopped writing for
Speaker 3: some years. Kind of interesting, but I just know Ghosts
Speaker 3: was like, you know because when he's from Stables and
Speaker 3: they from Park Hills.
Speaker 2: So he was like, yo, I got it.
Speaker 3: I got to go back and and come with my
Speaker 3: stables and shit, right, just coming from Brooklyn, Dirty coming
Speaker 3: from Brooklyn. So it was like you had that competition, right,
Speaker 3: But for me, I kind of had a knowledge of
Speaker 3: their voices as instruments, right, and then also had a
Speaker 3: knowledge of the potency of the lyric to be quite frank, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I edited I edited some shit, Yo, got it?
Speaker 2: You know? What I mean to be quite frank, I
Speaker 2: was like, boom boop, chop that chop that. Now that
Speaker 2: I got the structure.
Speaker 1: Right, just go kill it.
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying, got it?
Speaker 3: Because really that had probably twenty four bars right and
Speaker 3: the beat straight with your quest?
Speaker 1: So do you have a version of the song in
Speaker 1: which is the complete the original?
Speaker 3: The original for Tech your Neck really was an inspected
Speaker 3: deck track that we had recorded prior called It's not
Speaker 3: your average flow, okay, And so what happened was I
Speaker 3: had that track and we were like, yo, this, take
Speaker 3: that track to the studio. That beat was killing. Let
Speaker 3: deck kill that. I'm gonna make that the joint. But
Speaker 3: in the studio I was like nah, nah, And that
Speaker 3: actually took the sample out of it, and we made
Speaker 3: the whole track from like from scratch and like and realized,
Speaker 3: which is interesting, I would say this to you. I
Speaker 3: took the samples out and I just played the base
Speaker 3: line and then took all the little samples and this
Speaker 3: was like doing it like that more like versus yeah,
Speaker 3: doing it manually. And the reason why you won't a
Speaker 3: version of that because there's only a sixteen track of
Speaker 3: machine at that time we had, and so therefore we
Speaker 3: got two guys on the same track. It's just like
Speaker 3: the hook is on another track, that dirty is gonna
Speaker 3: come on that same track, and it's no other place
Speaker 3: to put that at. There's the other place to put
Speaker 3: my curses or the blocks or the curses.
Speaker 2: I guess like I have to do it right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I'm quite sure you probably had a four track
Speaker 3: growing up as well.
Speaker 1: I love that dirtiness, so I still collect for a
Speaker 1: track machines and cassettes like I vow like one day
Speaker 1: Tarika and I are gonna make the record that we
Speaker 1: used to make it, like we used to always make
Speaker 1: albums in our bedroom, you know, before we got a
Speaker 1: deal and all that stuff. But I still dream of
Speaker 1: making just the dirtiest, stinkiness sonic sounding record, Like that's
Speaker 1: my dream.
Speaker 3: But let me ask a quick question if you don't mine,
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, you know. First of all, let me
Speaker 3: just say thank you for inviting me to the podcast.
Speaker 3: Glad we found time to do it.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: This should be my second or third visit.
Speaker 1: First, I was waiting for you, man, I was I
Speaker 1: was patient.
Speaker 3: You guys are credited, and I think I can't find
Speaker 3: another physical form of it. I know that sept the
Speaker 3: Sonic called themselves the hip hop band, but you guys
Speaker 3: are really the first official hip hop band. I know
Speaker 3: the Fujis may have a little bit of say so
Speaker 3: in some of that she as well, but you guys
Speaker 3: are the first official.
Speaker 2: I just want to know.
Speaker 3: My question to you is, like, you know, coming up
Speaker 3: as a musician, you came up as a drummer.
Speaker 2: Am I correct?
Speaker 1: Yes, started as a drummer.
Speaker 2: So what was like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, she that's like, Yo, I'm a drummer. It ain't
Speaker 3: no sampler. I'm gonna play the drums and we're gonna
Speaker 3: make a fucking hip hop album. What was in your mind?
Speaker 1: What's weird? And I'm not even blowing smoke or or whatever,
Speaker 1: but you and Dilla taught me shit about the drums,
Speaker 1: because the thing is is that, you know, especially with
Speaker 1: black drummers, after the Richard Nixon era, now before the
Speaker 1: Richard Nixon era, what you had was you had migrants
Speaker 1: of families moving to the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit.
Speaker 1: They had these great factory jobs that enabled them to
Speaker 1: buy houses. And in these houses, of course, garage bands
Speaker 1: are starting in the garage, in the den, schooling, you
Speaker 1: learned an instrument, and then all that shit got cut
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, of course, and that's where hip
Speaker 1: hop culture starts and what happens around Like I'll say,
Speaker 1: like eighty one eighty two, the true place that a
Speaker 1: black musician could express themselves was the church, you know.
Speaker 1: And what's weird is that if every musician you know
Speaker 1: in your neighborhood is that church waiting for their chance
Speaker 1: to get you know, there'd be eight drummers, five keyboard players,
Speaker 1: five guitarists, and they're all waiting in the wings, like
Speaker 1: when's my turn? When's my turn? What starts to happen
Speaker 1: is this this where we are? It's sold now, like
Speaker 1: the reason why you can't find a group of black
Speaker 1: musicians to play like Al Jackson and the Stacks house
Speaker 1: Band sort of like because I always wonder, like, yo,
Speaker 1: don't musicians now know that if you record some shit,
Speaker 1: like when I record some shit on record, I want
Speaker 1: to underplay it so that way future is this future
Speaker 1: Dyla's future? Whoever? I mean, it could be silent the
Speaker 1: creator that they'll be Like that's the part I want
Speaker 1: to sample. But what happens is church musicianship made it
Speaker 1: this evil Knievel shit where it's like I gotta show
Speaker 1: you that I can play my ass off in eight
Speaker 1: seconds this whole you know what I mean. And it's
Speaker 1: like like we're used to it now because every musician
Speaker 1: is a church drummer. But for me, I wanted to
Speaker 1: sound like like the Stacks box set that really set
Speaker 1: your legacy. I too wanted to sound like that, so
Speaker 1: like and I'm talking about the filler cuts, fish knowledge, God,
Speaker 1: the way them drums sound so dirty, like that's what
Speaker 1: I was. I'm like, this is this there's feeling to it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Until that phase of hip
Speaker 1: hop came in three like the renaissance period of hip
Speaker 1: hop came like for me, I thought, damn man, like
Speaker 1: I got to keep up with these other like dar devils. Okay,
Speaker 1: the question I always wanted to ask you of all
Speaker 1: your work, like you know how when you purchased a
Speaker 1: classic hip hop album, like when shit comes out like
Speaker 1: classic shit like the day that Longly the Cane came
Speaker 1: out and Tarik and I are like in my house
Speaker 1: together like staring at the speaker, having listening sessions and
Speaker 1: almost discussions as each song goes by, like especially on
Speaker 1: the tour of Bus. Nothing paralyzed me more than verbal intercourse.
Speaker 1: What happened was dirty was in Stockholm, Sweden. He did
Speaker 1: a show that Friday night or that Saturday and left
Speaker 1: behind in the dressing room the purple tape. Mind you,
Speaker 1: we have been living in Europe and like going through
Speaker 1: the shit like and this before the Internet and all
Speaker 1: that shit. So we were literally living off of brand
Speaker 1: Ubians Everything is Everything, the main ingredient by Pete Rock
Speaker 1: and see how Smooth.
Speaker 2: To cal.
Speaker 1: It was like five cassettes that kept us alive insane
Speaker 1: during that whole like run and he had a pre
Speaker 1: copy of Cuban Links which was like, you know, we
Speaker 1: could have cried tears of joy, like we got new
Speaker 1: hip hop. Like I can't believe this because minds, you
Speaker 1: were in Europe. It's not like oh yeah, dude, when
Speaker 1: we got to verbal intercourse, we had to stop the tapement.
Speaker 1: It's like, yo, are they allowed to just rhyme over
Speaker 1: people talking like that? Like what the fuck for? Our listeners?
Speaker 1: Still don't know emotions? If you if you say, you
Speaker 1: might as well do it. The beginning loop is literally
Speaker 1: like Wanda hutchisoning, I don't want to love him, but
Speaker 1: what if he hurts me? And like literally was rule breaking,
Speaker 1: And we had like a twenty minute discussion like wait
Speaker 1: a minute, are they allowed to rhyme over people talking?
Speaker 1: It was almost like we wanted to take y'all to
Speaker 1: deposition court to see if that was allowed in the
Speaker 1: world of music. Now we have equipment that can erase
Speaker 1: vocals and just you know all that shit, But what
Speaker 1: were you thinking when you loot that ship.
Speaker 3: Well, by the time we got to that point of
Speaker 3: Cuba Links, I think lyricism, our ego and our ability
Speaker 3: to hear from all the other songs we've created and
Speaker 3: all the things that we now showed to the world
Speaker 3: was getting to a higher level. What I mean by
Speaker 3: that is that at one point, no, you couldn't rhyme
Speaker 3: while somebody else was talking because you couldn't even consciously
Speaker 3: do it, right, Okay, But now our mastery of space
Speaker 3: and cadens is there, right, so becuse then time it
Speaker 3: could be I've lined to it first, right, so I
Speaker 3: know it could be, yeah, doctor, whether I do it
Speaker 3: to them in the space or whether I just do it.
Speaker 3: I make sure that it can be rhyme too. That's
Speaker 3: the reason why I made it right. So by that
Speaker 3: time we got to there the.
Speaker 2: But what if he I want to love him? But
Speaker 2: what it's like?
Speaker 3: It was to me, it was like that was part
Speaker 3: of the beat and all I did and I just
Speaker 3: added bevy wiz snarres.
Speaker 2: The problem with that track was.
Speaker 1: Because it wasn't there was no problem.
Speaker 3: No, I'll said the problem as a producer for me, right,
Speaker 3: it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Really it was unquantizable.
Speaker 3: I know, okay, right, So if you look at it,
Speaker 3: the chick you can't make a beat on a beat
Speaker 3: machine with it. You gotta hit sit there and hit
Speaker 3: the fucking sit every fucking time on the track.
Speaker 1: So you took the quantizer off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck the quantizer.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing though, So on the first album I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, y'all, is there is a goddamn
Speaker 1: genius or did he just read the first three pages
Speaker 1: of the manual and decided to wing the west. We
Speaker 1: had a term called the accidental tourist. Right in making
Speaker 1: our first album, you know, I would have to play
Speaker 1: to a click track and sort of fluctuate, and then
Speaker 1: you know, my producer Rich would be like, ah, man,
Speaker 1: do that pass again. That wasn't right, And I was like,
Speaker 1: nah man, Like you know, accidental tourist. You know that's
Speaker 1: hip hop. He's like, nah man, like we ain't doing
Speaker 1: no woo shit, like perfect that shit. And you know,
Speaker 1: for the longest I was looking for an excuse to
Speaker 1: just break the rules. A good example was Johnny Taylor
Speaker 1: has a break call you think I'd do it, which
Speaker 1: has a break at the beginning to do someone offered
Speaker 1: me beat some breaks and it's so sloppy in the beginning,
Speaker 1: and like that's what I was trying to inch towards
Speaker 1: and for you, especially with the sloppiness of everything, Like
Speaker 1: for me, that just gave me the green light.
Speaker 3: Like because the crazy thing is that for me, I
Speaker 3: always know the time right because it's my time. I
Speaker 3: remember we was hanging and I had a couple of
Speaker 3: chicks with me. One knew me since high school, so
Speaker 3: she knew sin I was fourteen years old, right, And
Speaker 3: then some other dudes there and they're trying to show
Speaker 3: off they knew how to play the piano, all.
Speaker 2: Nice and all this ship right, and they got.
Speaker 3: They was doing their little R and B sucker ship
Speaker 3: I called the sucker shit back then.
Speaker 2: Now I'm cool with.
Speaker 1: It because we make sure all right.
Speaker 2: Then I jump on it and I do my ship right.
Speaker 3: And yet the chicks felt what I was doing interesting, right,
Speaker 3: But then the one chick was like, he has no tempo,
Speaker 3: and the chick that knew be said, no, he's always
Speaker 3: been on his own time. Like and when I say that,
Speaker 3: so you listen to Brain the Ruckers, bro I'm hitting
Speaker 3: every snaire on Brain the Ruckers.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, it's like, I feel like there's gunshots and yeah, And.
Speaker 3: For me, it's almost like I thought that a sound
Speaker 3: time could be changed at any moment based on the pulse.
Speaker 2: You feel me.
Speaker 1: So if I gonna get that's that right.
Speaker 4: But if I goa uh huh uh, the post is changing,
Speaker 4: it's changing the time.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's possible. I could post what the fuck
Speaker 3: I want to post and it to change the time.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm bringing the Rutgers. When ghost goes one way,
Speaker 3: but then in the middle of a sound, it changes,
Speaker 3: in the middle of the bar Ray goes, it changes,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't really make this until the hook comes.
Speaker 3: And then when that comes on this now it's in
Speaker 3: the groove, but then just goes out.
Speaker 5: Of the groove by the time he goes a mother
Speaker 5: other than slave Man Boost LOUDI Cruz, I'm fucking up
Speaker 5: the MC shoots and break Plumper sample Ship with our stump, right,
Speaker 5: he said, since the day he recorded it.
Speaker 2: So every time we perform, he don't want to perform.
Speaker 3: He said, Yo, God, I never could catch that time
Speaker 3: you put there.
Speaker 1: So the question I have for you is the day
Speaker 1: that the Grave Diggers album comes out, Philadelphia, legendary DJ
Speaker 1: cosmik Keev tells me, like, Yo, he predicted that ship
Speaker 1: was going to go gangbusters, like shout out to my
Speaker 1: man g from Jersey who were all heavy, we're promoting
Speaker 1: you guys like they wanted him to play. Of course,
Speaker 1: nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But why didn't you guys release bang your Head as
Speaker 1: a single, because that Ship, to me was just like
Speaker 1: that was the single that could have brought you guys
Speaker 1: over the top.
Speaker 3: Jason, you said that because at the time, right, bio
Speaker 3: has it. Yes, Okay, so I think bio Hazard was
Speaker 3: really bubbling right.
Speaker 2: In fact, the Grave Niggas was doing days.
Speaker 3: With bio has its just to let you know, Okay,
Speaker 3: I think that in a way it was it was
Speaker 3: it was the rock energy that scared the label right
Speaker 3: when you got because you got you got fru Klon,
Speaker 3: Prince Rakin or the Rustler at the time, you got it, you.
Speaker 2: Got Prince Paul, right, you got hip hop. They called
Speaker 2: it a super group at the time, right, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And also I.
Speaker 3: Think that the label wanted to chase the wool, right,
Speaker 3: and so I just think it was a miscalculation because
Speaker 3: they was they were trying to chase the wolf. So
Speaker 3: with the sample nowhere to run through suicide that we're
Speaker 3: chasing that where bang your head is almost you know
Speaker 3: what the fuck that is.
Speaker 2: And it's it's just it's just it was just a
Speaker 2: ball of energy.
Speaker 3: But I do think that the Grave Diggers were such
Speaker 3: an awkward it was.
Speaker 2: An awkward style of hip hop.
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't it was almost like it wasn't
Speaker 3: a lot of MC's going there like that, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean they had they called.
Speaker 3: It horror.
Speaker 1: We felt that that song would have brought that to
Speaker 1: the legitimate Yes, like we heard about horrorcore, but we
Speaker 1: felt that that song is gonna be the the flag
Speaker 1: planning song that really would have set that off, and
Speaker 1: it never came to fruition. And I always wanted to
Speaker 1: know why because I used to play that relentlessly. That
Speaker 1: used to be my first record when I would DJ, and.
Speaker 2: Able didn't get with that.
Speaker 3: You know, it's so crazy, though, I would say one thing,
Speaker 3: it never failed at a live show when we got
Speaker 3: Also when we did that shit, it was fucking I
Speaker 3: even remember evident from Bile Hazard like want to come join,
Speaker 3: and I like the energy that that shit used to
Speaker 3: bring was crazy.
Speaker 1: I have a theory about when people upgrade their like
Speaker 1: instruments or whatever, what exactly happened as far as the
Speaker 1: flooding is concerned of your original studio and is that
Speaker 1: sort of why the chapter ends with I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess you could say look with swords or not, you know,
Speaker 1: because the sound of Wu Tang Forever was night and day.
Speaker 1: It was more polish sound. But what what what exactly
Speaker 1: happened flooding lines that stopped you from using that particular equipment.
Speaker 3: First of all, tribbling links, liquid swords, maybe two or
Speaker 3: three tracks off of Iron Man because after that, because
Speaker 3: what happened was once I did the child, I didn't
Speaker 3: want to go back to the studio no more.
Speaker 2: I don't like how the cow came out.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why why even now. No, I didn't
Speaker 3: like how it came out. I mean I loved it,
Speaker 3: but I didn't. I mean I liked it, but I
Speaker 3: didn't love them put it that way because I had
Speaker 3: an engineer that tried to go by the book.
Speaker 2: So I had to fight to get the sound to
Speaker 2: it that way.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: If you listen to I get my thing an action.
Speaker 3: If you just turned down one fatal bro, the whole
Speaker 3: beat falls apart. But you gotta know that, and the
Speaker 3: engineer don't know that. And and remember back in those days,
Speaker 3: we're not really touching the boards.
Speaker 1: As we touch the boards, fight to.
Speaker 2: Touch the board. You got to send that dude to
Speaker 2: the store or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: But by the time we got to I got your back, right.
Speaker 3: And then you go to Cuba Links and Liquord Sports.
Speaker 3: It's my own studio, it's my house. I got every
Speaker 3: compressor already preset to their voices. I checked the compressor.
Speaker 3: I knew that I wanted his voice like that, right,
Speaker 3: Everybody got their own settings the two inches here the speakers,
Speaker 3: I had k kades, but I have the bigger ones,
Speaker 3: which was pretty with place but made sense back then, right,
Speaker 3: And when the flood came, it wiped it out right,
Speaker 3: the two witch machine, the boards still lived, the hardware,
Speaker 3: all that felt, you know what I mean. And then
Speaker 3: I had to finish iron Man inside the studio which
Speaker 3: is called Mystic Studios. So now I'm in the studio
Speaker 3: again and I'm dealing with.
Speaker 2: The studio fucking uh chamber.
Speaker 3: So some of the iron Man you got some original sound,
Speaker 3: well some of it you can see like, okay, it's changing.
Speaker 3: And then by the time you get to wuchank forever.
Speaker 3: Oh no, we we we we.
Speaker 2: We build a new studio and we recording in la
Speaker 2: at the same time. So now we pain ponding.
Speaker 3: But I would challenge this to you for your ear
Speaker 3: if you get a chance, and maybe we could talk
Speaker 3: about it next week. Listen to the tap of Donna
Speaker 3: South of the Border, Okay, right, and let me know,
Speaker 3: does that remind you of the sound from ninety three,
Speaker 3: ninety four, ninety five, because to me, that was like
Speaker 3: my last time like setting my parameters up to that,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Sampling that twenty two point
Speaker 3: one or seventeen point nine like Chanda my sample bit
Speaker 3: it was like the last time I did it, and
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: Like, man, this this We played it in the office
Speaker 2: for the staff.
Speaker 3: Everybody was like, that's you need to make more of those,
Speaker 3: Like that's the sound. That's that's unique Wu Tang sound.
Speaker 3: That that that that the world is used to versus.
Speaker 2: Run, which I said, No, I like run which was
Speaker 2: run was the was the curse? But run was the curse.
Speaker 3: Well, Sampler, it wasn't the ASR sent you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. I was kind of moving over to Churst well,
Speaker 3: like you said, upgrading my ship.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well brother, I appreciate you even let me
Speaker 1: get this far. God willing, we will continue with our
Speaker 1: talk with the one and only Risa the average of
Speaker 1: Wu Tang Clan. Thank you very much, brother brother, Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme Closter to
Speaker 1: buy Amir Quest Love Thompson, Lia Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandell,
Speaker 1: and Unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are Mayor, Quest Loved, Thompson,
Speaker 1: Sean che Brian Calhoun, Produced by Brittany Benjamin Cousin Jake
Speaker 1: Payinne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited by Alex Convoy, Produced
Speaker 1: by iHeart by Noel Brown. Post Club Supreme is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit
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