WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: RZA Part 1 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:09.920 Cost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and Gentlemen. 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.520 So last week we did a special one on one 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.680 with Kathleen Hannah and you guys to check that out, 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.279 and we're here to do it again. Shout out to 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:21.840 the rest of the team Supreme. I'm here with one 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.599 of my hip hop peers, someone who lit a path 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.800 for me. He's a producer and author, film director and curator, 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.760 a world class performer, one of the best coaches in 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.800 hip hop. He's also releasing a classical music album, A 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.640 Ballet through Mud, inspired by some of his childhood lyrics, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.880 and we're going to talk about that. Plus is illustrious 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.640 thirty plus years as a band leader, producer, His technique 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.599 is so much more. I can't believe that we finally 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.880 finally got the one and only Riza or in Court 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:58.319 Love Supreme. How you doing, sir? 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.080 Pace? Pace Pace is bog Bong and blessings and all. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.440 That, Yo, you gotta tell me the history of bang 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:10.200 bong like I thought Tarik made that. When did bog 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.320 bong become your what I assume is your greeting and 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:13.880 your exit? 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:15.280 Now? 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.080 Well, bong bong is like you know, growing up in 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.000 my hood, me and my cousins and uh, you know 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:26.399 Staples in Project Ghosts. We have a conversation and the 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.800 conversation would have a little not that many words in it. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.199 It'd be like, yo, son, No, I'm not pushed through 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.560 my name Bong quoting like that's bog bong. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.880 You know what I name bog and what happened? 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.119 All right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna make a woo 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.320 nomount of pier and say that bang bong is sort 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.520 of a wu tang version of an anamount of pier 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:54.920 like your your batman words bang bong bang by Yeah. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.160 That means that be thing. You know, it's good, There 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.760 is all good. Where is it at you feeling? Yeah? 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:01.960 Bang bong bong? 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.720 We here? I got you, I got you. How you 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.240 doing today? Bro? How's it going for you? You're You're 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:08.560 in La right now as we speak. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.400 Yeah, I'm in La right now. Q till just broke out. 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.720 We was brainstorming on some ideas. I know you already 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.040 shouted them out, real shouted them out, but we can't 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.919 shout it out enough. Congratulating them for the Rock and 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.040 Roll Hall of Fame with Trial call Quest, It's just 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:28.760 such a to me, a blessing for hip hop in particular. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.280 It's a blessing for them, of course, first and foremost, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.040 but even a blessing for hip hop. 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.720 Each time one of us get inducted into that world. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:43.079 It just shows the validation of the culture are permeating, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:48.120 you know, beyond its original thought scope at the end 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.960 of the day. Right in the beginning, it was like, 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:53.920 you know, certain things were unfathomable. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.919 We can't you couldn't imagine that what's going to happen. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.799 My first house is down the street from the Rock 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.160 and Roll Hall of Fame, my first house in Cleveland, Ohio. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.120 Cleveland, Okay, you know. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.839 Just seeing my pigs getting a chance to enter there, 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.920 it's a blessing. And yeah, I was just chopping up 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.239 with him, like before I jumped on with you. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:17.000 Okay. It's rather notable that both you and him sort 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.400 of in the same space. For hip hop enthusiasts, at 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.880 least of my age, we always acknowledge that second week 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:30.720 of November. For a lot of hip hop hids, if 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.200 the beginning of the classic hip hop period starts, some 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.200 say either you know, it starts with criminal minded. A 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.320 lot of people feel as though the end of the 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:48.480 classic period is the double release of Midnight Marauders and 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.600 thirty six Chambers. I know of his story, especially with 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:57.520 his cannon. But for you, though, I would like to 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:03.400 know that particular day in November of nineteen ninety three 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.600 into the thirty six Chambers comes out. Are there any 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.480 sentimental memories that you have? 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.640 You know, for us, we was actually on a promo 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.000 tour at the same time, right, so you know, I'll 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.320 recall all of us being in one of those fifteen 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:23.880 passer white fans just on the destination record store signing 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.120 or radio, you know, just on that promo tour. Imber, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.080 you know, we had mo Jo with us. He represented 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.560 the radio for Loud Records in r C A. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.240 Charm. I don't know if you remember. Charm used to 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:38.840 be from Tommy Boyce. She came up with the r 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:39.760 C A M. 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.839 And I actually remember the kid Lee Royd, the guy 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.080 who we used to is just like probably heckle him 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.960 and dealing with the rule was was like you know, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.640 I mean, it was a missing right and this day 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.280 was like I think our you know, even my. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.279 My feelings was, you know, I used the word elation. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.800 I was late right, feeling like, wow, this this album 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:04.920 is being shared. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:05.920 With the world, you know what I mean. 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.200 And and you know, the confidence which was at the 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:10.880 highest level. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:11.599 I gotta say that. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.279 You know, we didn't enter with our music without the 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.720 confidence of surety of that it was gonna be some. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.560 Ship, you know what I mean. We was like, we 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.840 kind of like some ship. Yo, it's going it's gonna 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.560 fuck niggas up. Excuse my language, but this. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.800 Is like, you know, you want to take me back 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.440 to that. You gotta take me back to the grid. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.720 So it's like Nigga's gonna be screaming this ship. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.120 You'll watch. We're gonna fuck him up. They're gonna shake niggas, 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:35.720 you know what I mean. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.240 We was on it, right, And the interesting thing that 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.960 happens by the evening, we're going to different record stores. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.680 Snoop Dog comes out that day as well. I don't 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:45.800 know if you record. 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.320 That, Okay, I do you remember Doggy Style coming out 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.359 around November. 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.280 And either that day or the week before. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.960 But but Master Killer gets in the car with that, 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.520 you know what I mean, and throws that in you 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.920 know what I mean, and it's like, oh, okay, and 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.000 travers already was already family like, you know, our history 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.120 was already tied in so. 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.080 So you know, it was just one of those it was. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:10.760 It was a great day for hip hop, to be 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.680 quite honest, you know what I mean, And listening to 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:15.200 those albums while. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.440 We're driving listening to our album, you know what I mean. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.880 It was just like it felt like hip hop had 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.440 a chance again, because yo, how we felt. 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:28.480 I don't know if we talk about this a lot, but. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.719 You just you just point out, you know, criminal minded, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.400 you know, talking about you know, Kim in eighty six, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.960 Carris went eighty seven. You know, by the time we 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.680 got to ninety one, it wasn't happening like that no more, right, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.200 you know, eighty seven and eighty nine you might have 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.000 got it, you know, ninety ninety one, it's it went 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.600 into a different chamber. And were very dissatisfied with that, 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:51.760 you know what I mean, and even ourselves when we 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.039 were striving to get out there. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:55.200 It's like the. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.440 Industry was trying to chase that shame. And when we 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.279 got a chance just to say, oh, we're doing hip 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.240 hop like you can't. And I didn't hope, I hope, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.480 not hope. I hope, I hope not say this egotistically 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.479 quest but you can't not deny that even if Wu 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.040 Tang Clan eventually ends up in the Rock and Low 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.960 Hall of thing, right, but you can't deny that first album. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.679 The only category for it at that time was hip hop. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.040 You know what I mean, Like you could take some 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.040 of the albums and no disrespect, Like you could take 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.960 mc hammer and you could say that maybe it's funk, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.200 maybe it's whatever it you know, that's because he's rapping 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:29.480 over it. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.480 Don't make it hip hop. You see what I mean? 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:37.160 Now, with the rival of Wu Tang from my perspective, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.440 especially the genius relentless way that you guys kind of 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.480 served us between ninety three and ninety five with the 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.560 five solo records, the group album, like it felt like okay, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.560 hip hop is is steady, like this is this is 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.680 our lane? And little did we know, Like after nineteen 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:03.360 ninety seven, just a change happened in which it was 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.240 kind of like a tsunami with with where hip hop, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.720 at least the hip hop culture that you and I 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.240 are used to, and a lot of that had to 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.960 do with sample clearances and you know, sort of people 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.160 seeing it as a business, whereas you know, we could 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.880 get away with whatever because not many people were looking 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.120 down our throats as creators. But then all of a sudden, 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:24.800 it's like you got to clear the snare and this 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.120 hook and all that stuff. But for you, in hindsight, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.079 did you realize that the Wu Tang's entry was going 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.920 to sort of be the end of something that didn't 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.200 seem like it was ever going to end as far 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.720 as that particular spirit of hip hop is concerned. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:42.800 I don't know if I saw that as the end, 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:47.280 because I think it waved right, it went, It came 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.679 in different forms even now some people say, well, Bizzelda 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.080 is a version of that, right, So you know, at 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.200 one point it was in odd future was another version 0:08:58.240 --> 0:08:58.600 of that. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:08:58.880 Right. 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.080 So I don't think it ended. 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.240 But what is there? 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:04.080 Right? 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:06.319 The spirit is there, but kind. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:07.520 Of the the sad. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.320 But from my perspective, right, so being in it is different. Right, 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.880 So from my perspective, it's almost like it was like 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:20.400 we were counted. Okay, hip hop was counted by business, 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:30.480 countered by legalities and interpolation laws, counted even by how. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.280 Can I say this hot ninety seven? 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.480 Like from Master Reflects Sat down with me, and you know, 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.839 he apologized to me, right, and he basically was like yo, 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.120 at the end of the day, you know, there was 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.640 an agenda to stop it, like to like to to 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:50.440 be like, YO, cut that off, turn this up, you 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:50.880 know what I mean. 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:52.480 And if you're you know. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.959 A white Castle burger is a white Castle burger, right, 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:56.440 you know what I mean. 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:58.800 But they you know, we lined up for that, right, 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.000 not knowing the law something effect. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:05.199 Of it versus something home cook. And so I'm naive, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.280 to be quite frank with your brother, I'm pretty naive 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.240 about the world in a way because especially at that 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.760 time of my life, I'm focused on the world. I'm 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.000 trying to see right right, Like I'm a type of 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:19.120 dude that well. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.040 That's called living in the present, which is what it 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.720 should be doing, right Exactly. 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.240 Until I saw five Deli Venoms back in Blockbuster, I 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.880 wasn't happy, you know what I mean, because it's like 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:32.960 I got to go to the bootlegs store for that, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.760 you know what I mean. I wanted whatever we was 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.640 bringing to the culture to be a valuable you know 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.000 what I mean. I wanted to see a Spoting Man 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.520 movie or I Am Man movie, like so so it 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.960 was so I'm living in that narrow bubble of striving 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.480 to express to the world the childhood that I thought 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:56.200 was healthier and better creatively. Right, So then I don't 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.040 pay attention that I'm being countered. And even though I 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:00.960 was being counted, you know, and when I was loved, 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.199 I was being counted by my peers and even by 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:06.800 you know, by the system itself. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.880 You know, I learned that years later. But fortunately, fortunately 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.120 for wo there's still a level. 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.480 Of purity in us as as people you know, like 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.679 ghost face is just always go these ghost face It's 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:24.160 like that's it. And so fortunately for that, whatever happened 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.079 out in the world or whatever was changing, we didn't 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.960 go so far. You know, they go too far to 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.439 chase you, you know what I mean, they ain't gonna say that, 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.480 and you know, look this way and look this way 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.040 and checked out, checked out, but you didn't go too 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:37.760 far to chase it. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.439 And I so, so I guess you know the answer 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:41.400 your question is like, in. 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:47.160 Hindsight, I didn't see the ending because it didn't end 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.080 in me. But in hindsight and learning what I know now, 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.080 it's like, man, motherfuckers was actually trying to kick me 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:53.680 out the room. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:55.000 You know what I mean? 0:11:55.120 --> 0:12:01.880 I feel you so right now. I'm working on the Earth, 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.680 Wind and Fire documentary, and a lot of what I 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:11.040 know about your modus operandi is sort of parallel with 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:17.480 where Maurice White was informing Earth would in fire, him 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:25.120 using astrology, him having an affinity for the number nine, literally, 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:32.559 like him writing manifesting a manifesto of what he wants 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.679 the group to do, what he wants the group to achieve, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.160 things that I've known you've done as far as like 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.040 planning out what I'm going to organize, who's going to 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.480 be in the circle, and how we're going to do it. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.280 Like a lot of cats don't know that that's metaphysics 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:53.640 or manifesting, but that's exactly how Maurice White structured Earth 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.160 would in Fire. Like I don't know if I'm necessarily 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.679 a coach in the way that you were a coach, 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:09.360 but how exhausting is it, especially in those first five years, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:16.080 How exhausting is it in being the head coach or 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.880 the the facto leader of this empire? First of all, 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.360 why nine members for the Wu Tang Clint? 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:24.880 Like? 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.280 Was that on purpose or was that just like who 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:27.720 was there. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.480 No, No, At first it was eight right. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:35.079 Okay, I understand Master Killer's situation, so I still count 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:36.040 him in terms of. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:37.840 Oh he became nine by the time. 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.200 You know, first it was eight, right, like the eight 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.079 points on the star, right, Okay, that's why. That's why 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.760 I look, I sai, I'm the seven in the center 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:45.800 of the eight point star. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:46.680 Right. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.440 So a lot of things that was aspiring me was mathematics, 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.400 knowledge of self, knowing. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.840 That a determined idea is his power was a nuclear bomb. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.160 In fact, it took a determinent idea to make can 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:05.280 nuclear ball. So having that impulse over me, and knowing 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.640 that the MC's that was in my community that I 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.199 was friends with buddies where it had demo tapes with, 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.360 knowing that the industry actually needed it in my opinion, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.800 like the industry needed a joke of the real people 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.520 that's living it, right, and not just some of the 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.640 people and and hope helping out saying this in a 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.800 non offensive way, but not just some of the. 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.440 People who was like already in or who went through 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:32.280 their experience. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.120 It's like crazy thing about Wu Tang that's kind of 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:37.480 crazy than it's it's. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.240 Seven felons in ute mm hmm. 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.040 So that's that's the people that's written off, you know 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.560 what I mean, it's probably man, it might be eight 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.000 high school dropouts, you know what I'm saying. So this 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.640 is the people that that ain't gonna get a chance 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.160 in all reality. And yet this is the people that's 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.560 that's loving hip hop, living hip hop right, their lyrics 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.960 and misspelling the words in some phases, you know what 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.200 I mean. And to my ear and to my knowledge 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.520 of the of the industry itself, I was like, Nah, 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:15.560 this band of MC's right can naturally come through and 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.640 rock the world. And I was and I'll have the 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.400 validation of course of the USA in od B right, 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:26.240 I have thedation as well, meaning they agreed and when 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.560 the rest of the klan agreed to the idea, right, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.120 and we all live by mathematics. 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:33.480 Who says, once you make an. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.040 Agreement, you got to live up to that, you know, 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:36.280 I mean, you got to live through your world. Your 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.240 world is your bond. Right, So once we agree that this, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.920 you know that this idea, this course of action is 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.200 the course of action to take to go ahead, and 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.120 you know we're and we're starving for domination, like that 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.080 wasn't a target for us, right, a target to be 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.800 number one U once once we agree that we're going 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.880 to do that, and then somebody at the front of 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.840 of the of the sphere at that time, I was 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.200 like the tip of the spear. I see the target. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.440 I just need y'all to fit the force behind me, 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.280 you know what I mean with that aspiration and inspiration. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.080 Yes that I saw that clearly, even if nobody else 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.320 saw it, right, Because sometimes you may ask another rouple 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.760 member that you said, now he didn't see it, or 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:17.360 he didn't. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.040 See it here once and y'all saw it, or once 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:20.600 y'all believe. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.320 Did they believe you? Like were they all in the 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.080 room at the same time, or was it just like 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.400 sort of some Hollywood Yeah, let's do lunch it like okay, 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:28.480 we'll make a record like. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.880 We gather it, we build you know. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.920 I verbalized it, you know, and look one of the 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:37.440 Timple quotes of it that I. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.120 Used for always. I'm a god of analogies, So my 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:41.240 analogy to them was like. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.680 Yo, the only way we're going to get there is 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.960 if you guys, let me drive the bus with no 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.120 questions and you always be the passengers, and I promise 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.320 I'll get us there, but I don't need nobody, like 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.440 it has to be a dictatorship in all reality. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:16:59.400 Right. 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.560 That was that was like, that's what I need, right, 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.480 because I'm gonna with outfls okay, given moment, you know, 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.800 I mean, anybody can knock anybody out if it's on 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:09.240 like that. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.200 Because there's no chumps here. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.400 It's all we're bill men, right, So therefore conflict can't 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:20.199 exist because the conflict would be self destruction. And so 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.560 we all got to agree that the abbot is driving 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.080 the bus and when we get there, I said, I 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.560 need five years to get there though, And when I 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.760 get there then it's cool. And we got there, right, 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.800 But everybody agreed, and even when it got a little 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.439 weird here or weird there, the agreement always came up. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.320 And in the reaffirmation of the agreement. So so these 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.640 four other brothers like nah Son, that ain't right because 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.439 we gave our word, right, you know. And so so 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.720 that's I mean, that's a long answer to the question. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.080 But let me add on one mother, one other thing. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.919 When you talk about you know how winning fire yourself, 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.560 you know, Maurice White, yourself myself as this coach position. Yeah, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.960 it's taxing. It's not easy, you know. I had a 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.280 lyric about it. I said something about I said, rhyming 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.840 to me is easier than breathing, and making beasts for 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.520 me is easier than peeing. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.119 But fucking with the Wu Tang clan, it's like riding 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.760 down a thousand foot hill through pine trees and snow 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:30.800 on one ski. 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:38.320 I see that, right, But I know that right, right. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.320 We take that ride. So it was tough, right, and 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:43.560 it was tough. 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.119 I will never deny that I got you, but it 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.800 was actually in hindsight now and living as the man 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.399 I am today, it was also the greatest forging of 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.600 myself that I ever could have gotten, Like I would 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.480 not be the father I am, the man that I 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.960 am if those experiences didn't happen in my life. If 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:08.879 those whether there was arguments or challenges or even submissions 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.320 to ideas, if I didn't experience that, right, It's like 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.040 my best example, I was doing my film, right, I 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.399 had one of people working for me yo, right, I 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.800 have a list actors, and I had all these personalities. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.840 If I didn't have already dealt with that in my 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.080 youth with the WU I wouldn't know how to deal 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.360 with it then, right, And and the way I handled it, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.639 the executives they gave me another job because it's like, Yo, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:36.920 this guy could handle some shit. 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.520 Do you ever have self doubts because of everything you've done? 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.439 I mean, I'm talking about scoring directing, Like, have you 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.479 ever met a challenge in which you were sort of like, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:50.160 I'm not sure? 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.320 I mean, and of course, right, but I would just 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.840 say that if there's a solution that exists, I strived 0:19:58.840 --> 0:19:59.520 for the solution. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:00.639 You know. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.240 I remember when we were as young, they say nobody 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:08.679 is perfect, right, And when I was about seventeen eighteen 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.119 years old, I had already you know, I knew one 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.639 hundred and twenty lessons already. So one of the twenty lessons, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.640 you know what that is? I gotta spain that, right. So, 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.520 and then brothers move on to what they call plus lessons. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.600 And with plus lessons, you know, you're you're learning outside 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.200 of the teachings, right, Other brothers contribution to the teachings. 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.439 And then I became started writing my own, right, and 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.240 so I wrote one called Striving for Perfection, right, And 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.040 as I was getting this out, of my system. The 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:42.159 question was, we always say that somebody is imperfect, But 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.600 if I accept that I'm imperfect, then I'll never have perfection. 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.919 So I can so I gotta know, I got to 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:54.200 accept that I'm perfect, that there is a solution to perfection. 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.080 Right, and if there is that, then I can be that, 0:20:58.240 --> 0:20:58.800 you know what I mean. 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:04.080 And so by writing that out into a textual form 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.600 and reading it and passing it to my students and 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.000 memorizing it and quoting it, it gave me an extra 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.520 level of confidence of like, you know what, at the 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.400 end of the day, there's a mathematical solution to it. 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.240 And when I say mathematical, mathematical. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:24.600 Could be a physical, spiritual, emotional, social, economic, right, mental. 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.840 It ain't just arithmetical, you know what I mean, or 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:30.320 adding division and subtracting. 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.240 It's almost like, yo, that might require a spiritual solution. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.359 That might BEQUI your economic solution, right, that might be 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:40.159 QUI your physical solution, you. 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:40.680 Know what I mean. 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.840 And so knowing that and being confident that those solutions exist, yeah, 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:46.520 you know. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.160 And I always say our perator is due to a law. 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.520 I could go into those bags and bring that and 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.199 utilize it to find that answer. 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:55.280 And I'll just say this last piece on it. 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:59.520 Artistically though, it's like art duties in the eye of 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:01.320 the behold the right. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.679 So first I gotta just see it as being beautiful, 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:04.840 all right? 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:09.080 I take that. Do you have a spiritual practice of 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:13.040 meditation or like, do you write affirmations down? 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:13.720 Do you? 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:16.840 Or is it just something in you, a confidence in 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:18.760 you that says I'm gonna achieve that. 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.960 Yes, it's it's internal now right at this age. Right, 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.280 And I'm gonna keep going to mathematics on this conversation. 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:26.120 I don't have good a chance. 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:26.840 I understand it. 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:29.880 Good hit me once a man hits forty, right, according 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.000 to mathematics. For us, for freedom, culture and freedom right, 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.680 culture's your way of life. Freedom is the freeer dome 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.280 from ignorance and foolishness that keeps you dumb or numb 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:42.200 to the world. 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:42.760 Right. 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.240 So if you have culture and freedom right, you get 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:49.560 your forties, you now should be free from. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:51.560 All that other shit that you dealt with. 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.479 Physically free, you know what I mean, because your body 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.359 is already now evolved. And so once that happened in 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:02.480 my life, I accepted that. So I accept every mathematic 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.359 of my life in my thirties. It says three is 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.600 for understanding. So you got to understand what you're going through. 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.520 So first you got to understand knowledge, understand wisdom, right, 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.200 understand even understanding that. 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.720 So therefore your understanding becomes what understood. Right, got to 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:18.520 understand coach. 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:22.199 All these different degrees, I keep those applied to myself, 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.720 and therefore I'm able to forecast myself or at least 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:27.120 know where I'm at in space and time. 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.600 And that's a big equation for us with man, women 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:31.119 and child. 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:35.119 Strive to always know where you're at in space and time. 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:40.400 Some dudes are still in the nineties or the two thousands, 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:42.639 like hold on, son, take a look where you're at 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.720 in the space and time now right now, and then 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.679 also know where the rest of your cipher is and 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.119 the rest of the things are around you. So of 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:50.720 course our. 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:53.840 Lesson teach just a fast and to pray. So yeah, 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.280 faster than prayer is healthy, right, super healthy. 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:01.600 But the first lesson is knowledge, it says do Knowledge 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.640 is not just a word of uh. That's why Kim 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.800 said right in the lyric, no, the ledge, but knowledge 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:12.680 becomes an act, a physical act, right, so it ain't 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:18.080 just reading. So the mathematics that knowledge is to look, listen, observe, 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.800 and also respect. Now you may look at something, you 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:25.160 may listen to something, but did you observe it? 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:26.840 And did you respect it? 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:29.359 And if you miss any of those components, you're not 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:33.840 doing the knowledge because knowledge is the basics foundation and 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.680 off that foundation of walking into a room and look first, 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:37.359 who observed it? 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.840 You know what I mean? You listen and you respected it? 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:43.000 You know what I mean? 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:47.720 That's part of my uh, you know, spiritual affirmation. I 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:51.840 guess that ask your question and my my surety of 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:53.120 my movements. 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:55.680 So what does that mean for you now that you're 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:57.320 fifty five? Right? 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:01.400 So now power power, that's truth top of truth. That's 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.320 why I'm talking like this now. I wouldn't even have 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:06.000 spoke like this because I would have kept it more personal, 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:08.440 right Like even when I just said to you earlier 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:11.680 about yoall they told me that they shut the door 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:15.160 on me yo, and they apologized to that, and I'm 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:15.720 cool with that. 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:17.439 I remember I told one of my peers. 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:20.320 He was like, Yo, yeah, I. 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.320 Sabotaged your whole shit. I said, yeah, you kind of 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.960 fucked me up for like a week. That's it. 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:29.760 I believe that you're speaking of the infamous Hot ninety 0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:34.280 seven summer stage incident. See I was in Europe at. 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:38.440 That time, so I said, yeah, you guys, wasn't in Europe. 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:40.479 We were, I mean we were living in Europe for 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.200 like six months, six to seven months, especially during the summer. 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:48.800 But so basically, an incident happened in Hot ninety seven 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:51.040 that rubbed them the wrong way, and they were basically like, 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:53.480 we're not playing you guys anymore. 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:54.760 Yeah. 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:57.920 Basically, first of all, we were sabotaged, which is cool. 0:25:58.280 --> 0:25:58.680 Happened. 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:00.720 Hey, that's a fight fight, you know, it's like the 0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:03.040 five heart Beat. Remember before they came out and guy 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:03.480 was like. 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.240 This next bancterd, they're better than the Temptations. 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:12.600 And trying to monkey minch it right and Yo, at 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:15.080 the end of the day, you know, a couple of 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:17.639 members spoke up on that on the spot, fuck that 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.560 you're fuck y'all right, because at the end of the day, 0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:23.199 one of the members was like, yo, fuck Hot nice 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:25.960 on the mic to the crowd. Get the crowd. Yeah, 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:28.640 it goes like for Hot ninety seven, right, So they 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:33.280 took that personal, but in reality, Bhutang built. 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:33.800 Hot ninety seven. 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:35.080 True. 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:38.440 Okay, So all of a sudden, you're trying to tell 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:40.359 us that we got to do this and change that 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:41.840 when when we are, we're the one that brought to 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:45.280 your audience. Right, the audience is the proof of the 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.720 pudding is that we got thirty thousand kids in front 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:51.600 of us, right, not just from a summer jam. 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:53.360 You're on tour, raised against the machine. 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:58.800 So we are still that power magnetic to audiences. And 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.320 yet you're not spending our mute because we didn't hit 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:01.920 you with a hook. 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:04.560 My first song didn't have no hook. He was gonna 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:05.880 hit you with a hook when we ready. 0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:07.960 To hit you with a hook, protecting that had no hook, 0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:11.639 we won't Tryum, this is lyricism. But when they pulled 0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:13.960 the plug, it's a it's a chain reaction though they's 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:16.639 just first, that's that's our biggest New York was the 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:21.160 biggest market, right, and it's all a trend setting market, 0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:23.760 right and then em It's at the same time had 0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:26.439 sister stations, So yo, we plug pull it here, we 0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:29.080 pull it here, and Homeboy over here. We're gonna pull 0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:31.520 it over here too, right, and that's all good, Like 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.040 I said. The funny thing about it is, you know, 0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:37.399 as it's now explained to me or even apologize or 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:40.520 even admitted to I. Just like I said, I'm so 0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:43.119 naive and sh like I said, I was why he 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:44.160 fucked up for like a week. 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:46.320 And it ain't mean nothing to me, you know what 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:46.640 I mean? 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:49.360 Because it never governed what I was doing. It never 0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.680 made me be who I am. That's something that artists 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:54.040 sometimes lose faith. 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:57.000 Well, and you were outsiders anyway, so it's not like 0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:01.280 that didn't matter. You existed because you found ways to 0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:04.440 get in without the mainstream, right right. 0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:07.479 And also the add to that, we also existed because 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:11.600 we were us. But it's almost like, look, most people 0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:14.240 are not gonna be able to get the s, the 0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:18.760 twelve tables. They gotta like you gotta work up to 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:21.720 that Gemini. Yeah, you might not even know what that is, 0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:25.320 right right. So it's just like, Yo, I'm okay, I'm 0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:27.040 okay being rare. 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:30.320 I'm gonna being like you gotta come over here to 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:30.679 get that. 0:28:35.840 --> 0:28:41.240 Here's the strange connection between you and nine that Rage tour. 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:44.160 We wound up replacing you guys on the Rage Tour. 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:46.400 I got it. I didn't know that. 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:52.440 Number one that literally changed our lives. Like that helped 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:57.880 me buy a house, which subsequently helped me buy equipment, 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:02.360 then help me by you know, helped me make things 0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:06.120 fall apart, like literally, you know, at that time, we 0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:08.640 were sort of living hand to mouth, gig the gig. 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:11.640 You know, we're cool this week, We're gonna be broke 0:29:11.720 --> 0:29:13.800 next week, hopefully a gig comes in. Oh, we got 0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:16.320 a gig. We'll make it. But that was the first 0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:23.120 time that we were able to sustain monetarily. 0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:24.120 At least consistency. 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:27.000 That helped. Yeah, that helped in ways you don't even matter. 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.360 So that was a blessing to me. But in hindsight, 0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:34.760 I always wonder because you know, you guys are beetles 0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:40.280 and are rolling stones. So it's like, do you wish 0:29:41.360 --> 0:29:44.040 that you guys had seen that tour all the way through? 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:46.760 Because I would imagine that you guys would have just 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.240 toured the world, and really it would have been just 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:54.480 another level, a higher level of madness for you guys. Yeah, 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:58.920 I'm happy how it turned out, why I'm here right now. 0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:03.200 Literally that that that changed my life. But from your perspective, 0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:05.800 do you wish that you like saw that tour through. 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:09.200 First of all, I'm glad that as you tell me 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:13.280 that I didn't know that that our era because we 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:15.280 made an error that was wrong for us not to 0:30:15.320 --> 0:30:16.600 complete that tool, you. 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:18.960 Know what I mean. It was a miscompulation by the 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.040 crew right not to do that. 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.719 And at the end of the day, that's the outfulness 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.680 of whoa if you really look at it. The promise 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:30.520 was given to me in nineteen ninety two. This is 0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:35.880 nineteen ninety seven. The time is up, okay, And it 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:39.280 was acts in a democratic way. First of all, it 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:42.640 was happening like even without like on some of those 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:44.000 on some nights of that tour. 0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.560 You may see only father of us there, yea. 0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:48.960 And so it was already starting to be like yo, 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:51.160 brothers come in and out when they when they was 0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:53.640 feeling it, you know what I mean. But then it 0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:55.280 was like yo, you do we want to I think 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:56.920 it was in Chicago, was like you want to stay 0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:58.200 on the tour or not? 0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.320 And we took a vote and brothers want it off. 0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:04.400 Right. Do you think that that whole experience was just 0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:08.080 jarring for them to get to that level. Do you 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:10.680 think that there was just a fear of seeing it 0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:13.400 through was it just too much because my first night 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:15.719 of that ship, I was scared to death, like all 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:17.680 those kids jumping in. What the fuck is this? 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:18.840 Right? 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:21.880 I think in hindsight, I've heard some of the brothers 0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:24.440 bring that up, like maybe there was some type of 0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:28.880 fears and somebody. The plan was this toward raids in 0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:32.680 the summer m m. And then we hit the colleges 0:31:33.120 --> 0:31:34.360 during the homecoming season. 0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:41.000 Mm hm, right, But I think the crew wanted to. 0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:44.560 Go home first. They wanted to fill this called the 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:47.800 Black Law first. When we dropped the new album, right, 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:50.160 they wanted to start there. I say, now, don't start there, 0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:54.040 because that's what we left for at right, So let's 0:31:54.040 --> 0:31:56.760 start here and they come back around. 0:31:56.520 --> 0:31:58.440 To get the international first and then come. 0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:03.280 And the connection of those type of big concerts, especially 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:09.040 when you're young, right, both big concerts. If you're not, like, 0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:12.400 how can I explain this? Look, some artists need to 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:15.320 like have their leg touched by the person in a 0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:21.120 thousand seedar like they need to they need to smell it. Yeah, 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.880 And some artists could fucking sit in the middle of 0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:28.760 the stage empty on a stool with thirty thousand people 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.160 in front of them and just play their guitar and 0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:31.880 and and hit. 0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:33.640 You with the Jannet chaplain, you know what I mean? 0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:37.360 Right, And so in us we had that mix of 0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:40.120 those who would be that way like like, you know, 0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:42.800 I'm probably more of a I'm probably the rock and 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:46.280 roll energy of the crew, you know what I mean, 0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.800 the sense of that methods also the stadium energy of 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.760 the crew, right, are more like yo, I'm gonna. 0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:55.440 Knock you out street hustler club of the crew. 0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:56.000 Right. 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:58.000 So because of that, because of that type of energy 0:32:58.040 --> 0:32:59.960 at that point in our lives, you know, twenty five 0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:03.280 years old, twenty six years old, whatever, I think that 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.000 it may have been some type of I don't know. 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:09.400 I don't use the word fear, but definitely uncomfortability. But 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:11.640 I'm all say this, and I said it a hundred 0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:12.800 times and I'll say it again. 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.719 It was an I'm going to circle your whole career. 0:33:16.000 --> 0:33:19.200 But I have to know the night that you made 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:23.080 protect your neck. One, how long did that session take? 0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:27.960 And two? How did you determine the sort of format 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:33.040 of the song? Because you know, you Got has eight 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:37.240 bars and Old Dirty has twenty four bars and just 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:40.480 that has twenty four. But Go says sixteen, Like, how 0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:42.840 did you measure and plan that out? Like as far 0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:46.200 as the order is concerned, and no hook or none 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:46.800 of that stuff. 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:49.880 Well, it was a two day session. Actually. 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:52.760 That was one of those songs where you got to 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.720 come back to the studio, right, Okay, fact ghost went 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:57.960 home and rewrote this verse. 0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:01.200 There's another version with a different verse. Yeah. 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.960 Well at the time, he was also boast was going through. 0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:09.239 Ghost was also evolved in right, right, Dirty was evolved, 0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:12.799 was evolved, you know what I mean. Meth and Deck 0:34:12.880 --> 0:34:15.680 and Ray Ray was amazing, right when Ray didn't have 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:18.160 a lot of bars written, he had stopped writing for 0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:22.640 some years. Kind of interesting, but I just know Ghosts 0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:25.840 was like, you know because when he's from Stables and 0:34:25.840 --> 0:34:26.800 they from Park Hills. 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:27.960 So he was like, yo, I got it. 0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:30.840 I got to go back and and come with my 0:34:30.840 --> 0:34:33.719 stables and shit, right, just coming from Brooklyn, Dirty coming 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:36.640 from Brooklyn. So it was like you had that competition, right, 0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:40.160 But for me, I kind of had a knowledge of 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:43.560 their voices as instruments, right, and then also had a 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:47.439 knowledge of the potency of the lyric to be quite frank, Yeah, 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:50.719 I edited I edited some shit, Yo, got it? 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:52.600 You know? What I mean to be quite frank, I 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.640 was like, boom boop, chop that chop that. Now that 0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:58.359 I got the structure. 0:34:58.560 --> 0:34:59.799 Right, just go kill it. 0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:02.560 You see what I'm saying, got it? 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:08.400 Because really that had probably twenty four bars right and 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:10.360 the beat straight with your quest? 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:12.080 So do you have a version of the song in 0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:13.760 which is the complete the original? 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:18.960 The original for Tech your Neck really was an inspected 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:23.960 deck track that we had recorded prior called It's not 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:27.560 your average flow, okay, And so what happened was I 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:31.799 had that track and we were like, yo, this, take 0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:34.160 that track to the studio. That beat was killing. Let 0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:37.040 deck kill that. I'm gonna make that the joint. But 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:40.239 in the studio I was like nah, nah, And that 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.719 actually took the sample out of it, and we made 0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:45.960 the whole track from like from scratch and like and realized, 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.680 which is interesting, I would say this to you. I 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.120 took the samples out and I just played the base 0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:53.680 line and then took all the little samples and this 0:35:53.880 --> 0:35:57.000 was like doing it like that more like versus yeah, 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:00.920 doing it manually. And the reason why you won't a 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:03.480 version of that because there's only a sixteen track of 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.480 machine at that time we had, and so therefore we 0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:09.520 got two guys on the same track. It's just like 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:14.640 the hook is on another track, that dirty is gonna 0:36:14.680 --> 0:36:16.359 come on that same track, and it's no other place 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:18.600 to put that at. There's the other place to put 0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:20.720 my curses or the blocks or the curses. 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:25.200 I guess like I have to do it right. Yeah, 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:25.960 but you know, you. 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:27.919 Know, I'm quite sure you probably had a four track 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:29.360 growing up as well. 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:33.080 I love that dirtiness, so I still collect for a 0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:36.200 track machines and cassettes like I vow like one day 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:38.960 Tarika and I are gonna make the record that we 0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:40.680 used to make it, like we used to always make 0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:43.600 albums in our bedroom, you know, before we got a 0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:45.799 deal and all that stuff. But I still dream of 0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:52.480 making just the dirtiest, stinkiness sonic sounding record, Like that's 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:53.040 my dream. 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:55.200 But let me ask a quick question if you don't mine, 0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:57.120 I know, yeah, you know. First of all, let me 0:36:57.200 --> 0:37:00.680 just say thank you for inviting me to the podcast. 0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:02.719 Glad we found time to do it. 0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:03.640 Thank you. 0:37:03.760 --> 0:37:05.600 This should be my second or third visit. 0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:09.279 First, I was waiting for you, man, I was I 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:09.880 was patient. 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:13.600 You guys are credited, and I think I can't find 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:17.520 another physical form of it. I know that sept the 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:19.759 Sonic called themselves the hip hop band, but you guys 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:23.400 are really the first official hip hop band. I know 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:25.640 the Fujis may have a little bit of say so 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.080 in some of that she as well, but you guys 0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:29.360 are the first official. 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:30.040 I just want to know. 0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:33.279 My question to you is, like, you know, coming up 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:35.160 as a musician, you came up as a drummer. 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:35.840 Am I correct? 0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:37.920 Yes, started as a drummer. 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:39.000 So what was like? 0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:41.919 Yeah, she that's like, Yo, I'm a drummer. It ain't 0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:44.520 no sampler. I'm gonna play the drums and we're gonna 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.400 make a fucking hip hop album. What was in your mind? 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:50.520 What's weird? And I'm not even blowing smoke or or whatever, 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:55.760 but you and Dilla taught me shit about the drums, 0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:58.920 because the thing is is that, you know, especially with 0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:03.400 black drummers, after the Richard Nixon era, now before the 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:08.960 Richard Nixon era, what you had was you had migrants 0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:15.160 of families moving to the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit. 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:20.480 They had these great factory jobs that enabled them to 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:26.040 buy houses. And in these houses, of course, garage bands 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:31.000 are starting in the garage, in the den, schooling, you 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:33.920 learned an instrument, and then all that shit got cut 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:35.920 in nineteen seventy three, of course, and that's where hip 0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:40.480 hop culture starts and what happens around Like I'll say, 0:38:40.520 --> 0:38:43.880 like eighty one eighty two, the true place that a 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:48.120 black musician could express themselves was the church, you know. 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:51.840 And what's weird is that if every musician you know 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:56.760 in your neighborhood is that church waiting for their chance 0:38:57.400 --> 0:39:01.640 to get you know, there'd be eight drummers, five keyboard players, 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:04.160 five guitarists, and they're all waiting in the wings, like 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.080 when's my turn? When's my turn? What starts to happen 0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:10.160 is this this where we are? It's sold now, like 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:13.560 the reason why you can't find a group of black 0:39:13.640 --> 0:39:18.879 musicians to play like Al Jackson and the Stacks house 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:22.200 Band sort of like because I always wonder, like, yo, 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:26.000 don't musicians now know that if you record some shit, 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:29.759 like when I record some shit on record, I want 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:34.360 to underplay it so that way future is this future 0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:38.360 Dyla's future? Whoever? I mean, it could be silent the 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:41.480 creator that they'll be Like that's the part I want 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:45.840 to sample. But what happens is church musicianship made it 0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:48.319 this evil Knievel shit where it's like I gotta show 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:52.640 you that I can play my ass off in eight 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:58.359 seconds this whole you know what I mean. And it's 0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:01.040 like like we're used to it now because every musician 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:05.960 is a church drummer. But for me, I wanted to 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:09.759 sound like like the Stacks box set that really set 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:12.799 your legacy. I too wanted to sound like that, so 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:18.879 like and I'm talking about the filler cuts, fish knowledge, God, 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.759 the way them drums sound so dirty, like that's what 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:26.560 I was. I'm like, this is this there's feeling to it, 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:31.200 you know what I mean. Until that phase of hip 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:37.480 hop came in three like the renaissance period of hip 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:41.319 hop came like for me, I thought, damn man, like 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:47.640 I got to keep up with these other like dar devils. Okay, 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:50.839 the question I always wanted to ask you of all 0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:54.440 your work, like you know how when you purchased a 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:58.040 classic hip hop album, like when shit comes out like 0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:01.600 classic shit like the day that Longly the Cane came 0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:04.439 out and Tarik and I are like in my house 0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:07.319 together like staring at the speaker, having listening sessions and 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:11.360 almost discussions as each song goes by, like especially on 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:16.799 the tour of Bus. Nothing paralyzed me more than verbal intercourse. 0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:23.600 What happened was dirty was in Stockholm, Sweden. He did 0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:30.919 a show that Friday night or that Saturday and left 0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:36.880 behind in the dressing room the purple tape. Mind you, 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:41.800 we have been living in Europe and like going through 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:45.120 the shit like and this before the Internet and all 0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:49.120 that shit. So we were literally living off of brand 0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:52.880 Ubians Everything is Everything, the main ingredient by Pete Rock 0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:53.960 and see how Smooth. 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:55.400 To cal. 0:41:56.680 --> 0:42:00.800 It was like five cassettes that kept us alive insane 0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:04.759 during that whole like run and he had a pre 0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:10.239 copy of Cuban Links which was like, you know, we 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:12.160 could have cried tears of joy, like we got new 0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:14.400 hip hop. Like I can't believe this because minds, you 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:18.480 were in Europe. It's not like oh yeah, dude, when 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:22.560 we got to verbal intercourse, we had to stop the tapement. 0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:24.799 It's like, yo, are they allowed to just rhyme over 0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:28.400 people talking like that? Like what the fuck for? Our listeners? 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:31.120 Still don't know emotions? If you if you say, you 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:34.880 might as well do it. The beginning loop is literally 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:38.520 like Wanda hutchisoning, I don't want to love him, but 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:42.400 what if he hurts me? And like literally was rule breaking, 0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:45.719 And we had like a twenty minute discussion like wait 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:48.320 a minute, are they allowed to rhyme over people talking? 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:50.520 It was almost like we wanted to take y'all to 0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:54.040 deposition court to see if that was allowed in the 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:58.400 world of music. Now we have equipment that can erase 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:02.839 vocals and just you know all that shit, But what 0:43:02.880 --> 0:43:05.239 were you thinking when you loot that ship. 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:08.880 Well, by the time we got to that point of 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:14.640 Cuba Links, I think lyricism, our ego and our ability 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:18.239 to hear from all the other songs we've created and 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:20.880 all the things that we now showed to the world 0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:23.880 was getting to a higher level. What I mean by 0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:26.960 that is that at one point, no, you couldn't rhyme 0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:30.520 while somebody else was talking because you couldn't even consciously 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:37.000 do it, right, Okay, But now our mastery of space 0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:40.200 and cadens is there, right, so becuse then time it 0:43:40.239 --> 0:43:44.080 could be I've lined to it first, right, so I 0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:49.360 know it could be, yeah, doctor, whether I do it 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:51.919 to them in the space or whether I just do it. 0:43:52.320 --> 0:43:54.960 I make sure that it can be rhyme too. That's 0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:57.319 the reason why I made it right. So by that 0:43:57.360 --> 0:43:59.000 time we got to there the. 0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:01.680 But what if he I want to love him? But 0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:02.560 what it's like? 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:04.600 It was to me, it was like that was part 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:06.040 of the beat and all I did and I just 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:08.240 added bevy wiz snarres. 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:09.680 The problem with that track was. 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:12.840 Because it wasn't there was no problem. 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.360 No, I'll said the problem as a producer for me, right, 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:17.520 it wasn't. 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:20.160 Really it was unquantizable. 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:24.200 I know, okay, right, So if you look at it, 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:26.919 the chick you can't make a beat on a beat 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:29.399 machine with it. You gotta hit sit there and hit 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:32.440 the fucking sit every fucking time on the track. 0:44:32.840 --> 0:44:34.279 So you took the quantizer off. 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:36.120 Yeah, fuck the quantizer. 0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:40.520 Here's the thing though, So on the first album I 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:43.680 was like, all right, y'all, is there is a goddamn 0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:47.080 genius or did he just read the first three pages 0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:49.920 of the manual and decided to wing the west. We 0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:54.080 had a term called the accidental tourist. Right in making 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:56.399 our first album, you know, I would have to play 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:59.560 to a click track and sort of fluctuate, and then 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:02.160 you know, my producer Rich would be like, ah, man, 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:05.080 do that pass again. That wasn't right, And I was like, 0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:09.399 nah man, Like you know, accidental tourist. You know that's 0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:12.160 hip hop. He's like, nah man, like we ain't doing 0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:15.560 no woo shit, like perfect that shit. And you know, 0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:20.719 for the longest I was looking for an excuse to 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:25.880 just break the rules. A good example was Johnny Taylor 0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:28.959 has a break call you think I'd do it, which 0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:31.759 has a break at the beginning to do someone offered 0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:35.160 me beat some breaks and it's so sloppy in the beginning, 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:37.680 and like that's what I was trying to inch towards 0:45:38.360 --> 0:45:42.200 and for you, especially with the sloppiness of everything, Like 0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:44.000 for me, that just gave me the green light. 0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:47.279 Like because the crazy thing is that for me, I 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:52.080 always know the time right because it's my time. I 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:55.600 remember we was hanging and I had a couple of 0:45:55.680 --> 0:45:58.120 chicks with me. One knew me since high school, so 0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:01.200 she knew sin I was fourteen years old, right, And 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:03.200 then some other dudes there and they're trying to show 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:04.920 off they knew how to play the piano, all. 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:08.200 Nice and all this ship right, and they got. 0:46:07.920 --> 0:46:11.040 They was doing their little R and B sucker ship 0:46:11.600 --> 0:46:12.879 I called the sucker shit back then. 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:13.680 Now I'm cool with. 0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:16.400 It because we make sure all right. 0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:18.919 Then I jump on it and I do my ship right. 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:22.319 And yet the chicks felt what I was doing interesting, right, 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:25.240 But then the one chick was like, he has no tempo, 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:27.960 and the chick that knew be said, no, he's always 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:30.560 been on his own time. Like and when I say that, 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:33.600 so you listen to Brain the Ruckers, bro I'm hitting 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:35.160 every snaire on Brain the Ruckers. 0:46:35.239 --> 0:46:39.000 Jesus Christ, it's like, I feel like there's gunshots and yeah, And. 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:42.520 For me, it's almost like I thought that a sound 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:47.280 time could be changed at any moment based on the pulse. 0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:48.160 You feel me. 0:46:49.040 --> 0:46:53.799 So if I gonna get that's that right. 0:46:54.080 --> 0:47:03.440 But if I goa uh huh uh, the post is changing, 0:47:03.480 --> 0:47:04.560 it's changing the time. 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:08.000 Okay, so that's possible. I could post what the fuck 0:47:08.040 --> 0:47:10.239 I want to post and it to change the time. 0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:12.520 That's why I'm bringing the Rutgers. When ghost goes one way, 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:16.640 but then in the middle of a sound, it changes, 0:47:16.640 --> 0:47:18.960 in the middle of the bar Ray goes, it changes, 0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:21.120 and it doesn't really make this until the hook comes. 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:24.120 And then when that comes on this now it's in 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.160 the groove, but then just goes out. 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:28.520 Of the groove by the time he goes a mother 0:47:28.520 --> 0:47:31.239 other than slave Man Boost LOUDI Cruz, I'm fucking up 0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:37.719 the MC shoots and break Plumper sample Ship with our stump, right, 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:40.440 he said, since the day he recorded it. 0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:42.120 So every time we perform, he don't want to perform. 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.879 He said, Yo, God, I never could catch that time 0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:45.520 you put there. 0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:53.719 So the question I have for you is the day 0:47:53.800 --> 0:47:57.879 that the Grave Diggers album comes out, Philadelphia, legendary DJ 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:02.040 cosmik Keev tells me, like, Yo, he predicted that ship 0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:06.200 was going to go gangbusters, like shout out to my 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:10.320 man g from Jersey who were all heavy, we're promoting 0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:13.520 you guys like they wanted him to play. Of course, 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:15.600 nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and all that stuff. 0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:19.960 But why didn't you guys release bang your Head as 0:48:20.000 --> 0:48:23.520 a single, because that Ship, to me was just like 0:48:23.800 --> 0:48:27.040 that was the single that could have brought you guys 0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:27.719 over the top. 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:31.919 Jason, you said that because at the time, right, bio 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:36.160 has it. Yes, Okay, so I think bio Hazard was 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:37.680 really bubbling right. 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:40.440 In fact, the Grave Niggas was doing days. 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:42.600 With bio has its just to let you know, Okay, 0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:47.399 I think that in a way it was it was 0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:53.200 it was the rock energy that scared the label right 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:56.160 when you got because you got you got fru Klon, 0:48:56.360 --> 0:49:00.480 Prince Rakin or the Rustler at the time, you got it, you. 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:04.600 Got Prince Paul, right, you got hip hop. They called 0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:07.200 it a super group at the time, right, mm hmm. 0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:09.400 And also I. 0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:13.839 Think that the label wanted to chase the wool, right, 0:49:15.000 --> 0:49:18.319 and so I just think it was a miscalculation because 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:19.719 they was they were trying to chase the wolf. So 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:23.719 with the sample nowhere to run through suicide that we're 0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:27.160 chasing that where bang your head is almost you know 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:28.279 what the fuck that is. 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:29.719 And it's it's just it's just it was just a 0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:30.440 ball of energy. 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:37.959 But I do think that the Grave Diggers were such 0:49:38.000 --> 0:49:39.960 an awkward it was. 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:41.399 An awkward style of hip hop. 0:49:41.440 --> 0:49:43.600 I mean, it wasn't it was almost like it wasn't 0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:46.360 a lot of MC's going there like that, you know 0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:46.680 what I mean. 0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:48.000 I mean they had they called. 0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:48.360 It horror. 0:49:50.920 --> 0:49:54.040 We felt that that song would have brought that to 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:58.359 the legitimate Yes, like we heard about horrorcore, but we 0:49:58.360 --> 0:50:00.880 felt that that song is gonna be the the flag 0:50:00.920 --> 0:50:05.160 planning song that really would have set that off, and 0:50:05.440 --> 0:50:07.920 it never came to fruition. And I always wanted to 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:12.200 know why because I used to play that relentlessly. That 0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:15.040 used to be my first record when I would DJ, and. 0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:16.279 Able didn't get with that. 0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:18.799 You know, it's so crazy, though, I would say one thing, 0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:21.879 it never failed at a live show when we got 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:26.040 Also when we did that shit, it was fucking I 0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:30.359 even remember evident from Bile Hazard like want to come join, 0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:32.239 and I like the energy that that shit used to 0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:33.720 bring was crazy. 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:39.600 I have a theory about when people upgrade their like 0:50:39.719 --> 0:50:42.840 instruments or whatever, what exactly happened as far as the 0:50:42.880 --> 0:50:49.400 flooding is concerned of your original studio and is that 0:50:49.680 --> 0:50:55.239 sort of why the chapter ends with I mean, I 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:57.440 guess you could say look with swords or not, you know, 0:50:57.480 --> 0:51:00.839 because the sound of Wu Tang Forever was night and day. 0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:04.640 It was more polish sound. But what what what exactly 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:10.080 happened flooding lines that stopped you from using that particular equipment. 0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:14.239 First of all, tribbling links, liquid swords, maybe two or 0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:17.359 three tracks off of Iron Man because after that, because 0:51:17.360 --> 0:51:22.520 what happened was once I did the child, I didn't 0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:24.040 want to go back to the studio no more. 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.040 I don't like how the cow came out. 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:30.239 I'll tell you why why even now. No, I didn't 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:31.839 like how it came out. I mean I loved it, 0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:33.520 but I didn't. I mean I liked it, but I 0:51:33.560 --> 0:51:36.480 didn't love them put it that way because I had 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:39.719 an engineer that tried to go by the book. 0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:42.400 So I had to fight to get the sound to 0:51:42.600 --> 0:51:43.280 it that way. 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:43.120 Right. 0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:45.840 If you listen to I get my thing an action. 0:51:46.160 --> 0:51:48.799 If you just turned down one fatal bro, the whole 0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:51.759 beat falls apart. But you gotta know that, and the 0:51:51.800 --> 0:51:54.879 engineer don't know that. And and remember back in those days, 0:51:54.880 --> 0:51:56.360 we're not really touching the boards. 0:51:57.000 --> 0:52:00.520 As we touch the boards, fight to. 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:02.319 Touch the board. You got to send that dude to 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:03.640 the store or something, you know what I mean. 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:10.399 But by the time we got to I got your back, right. 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:13.120 And then you go to Cuba Links and Liquord Sports. 0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:18.399 It's my own studio, it's my house. I got every 0:52:18.440 --> 0:52:22.520 compressor already preset to their voices. I checked the compressor. 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:24.960 I knew that I wanted his voice like that, right, 0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:30.160 Everybody got their own settings the two inches here the speakers, 0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:32.560 I had k kades, but I have the bigger ones, 0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:35.919 which was pretty with place but made sense back then, right, 0:52:36.480 --> 0:52:40.919 And when the flood came, it wiped it out right, 0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:46.320 the two witch machine, the boards still lived, the hardware, 0:52:46.960 --> 0:52:49.520 all that felt, you know what I mean. And then 0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:56.560 I had to finish iron Man inside the studio which 0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:59.600 is called Mystic Studios. So now I'm in the studio 0:52:59.640 --> 0:53:02.719 again and I'm dealing with. 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:04.800 The studio fucking uh chamber. 0:53:05.120 --> 0:53:07.919 So some of the iron Man you got some original sound, 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.880 well some of it you can see like, okay, it's changing. 0:53:10.960 --> 0:53:12.760 And then by the time you get to wuchank forever. 0:53:13.239 --> 0:53:15.279 Oh no, we we we we. 0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:18.399 We build a new studio and we recording in la 0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:20.240 at the same time. So now we pain ponding. 0:53:20.920 --> 0:53:23.080 But I would challenge this to you for your ear 0:53:23.840 --> 0:53:25.960 if you get a chance, and maybe we could talk 0:53:25.960 --> 0:53:29.120 about it next week. Listen to the tap of Donna 0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:33.000 South of the Border, Okay, right, and let me know, 0:53:33.200 --> 0:53:35.560 does that remind you of the sound from ninety three, 0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:38.200 ninety four, ninety five, because to me, that was like 0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:43.120 my last time like setting my parameters up to that, 0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:45.920 you know what I mean? Sampling that twenty two point 0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:49.120 one or seventeen point nine like Chanda my sample bit 0:53:49.680 --> 0:53:51.719 it was like the last time I did it, and 0:53:51.760 --> 0:53:52.000 I was. 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.280 Like, man, this this We played it in the office 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:55.120 for the staff. 0:53:56.120 --> 0:53:58.520 Everybody was like, that's you need to make more of those, 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:01.239 Like that's the sound. That's that's unique Wu Tang sound. 0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:04.400 That that that that the world is used to versus. 0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:06.319 Run, which I said, No, I like run which was 0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:09.279 run was the was the curse? But run was the curse. 0:54:09.320 --> 0:54:12.719 Well, Sampler, it wasn't the ASR sent you know what 0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:16.359 I mean. I was kind of moving over to Churst well, 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:18.560 like you said, upgrading my ship. 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:22.719 But yeah, well brother, I appreciate you even let me 0:54:22.760 --> 0:54:25.799 get this far. God willing, we will continue with our 0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:29.920 talk with the one and only Risa the average of 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:35.399 Wu Tang Clan. Thank you very much, brother brother, Thank 0:54:35.440 --> 0:54:38.120 you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme Closter to 0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:43.560 buy Amir Quest Love Thompson, Lia Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandell, 0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:49.760 and Unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are Mayor, Quest Loved, Thompson, 0:54:50.320 --> 0:54:57.200 Sean che Brian Calhoun, Produced by Brittany Benjamin Cousin Jake 0:54:57.280 --> 0:55:03.320 Payinne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited by Alex Convoy, Produced 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:13.160 by iHeart by Noel Brown. Post Club Supreme is a 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:21.279 production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit 0:55:21.320 --> 0:55:24.920 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:25.720 your favorite shows.