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Speaker 1: Cost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and Gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: So last week we did a special one on one

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Speaker 1: with Kathleen Hannah and you guys to check that out,

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Speaker 1: and we're here to do it again. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: the rest of the team Supreme. I'm here with one

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Speaker 1: of my hip hop peers, someone who lit a path

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Speaker 1: for me. He's a producer and author, film director and curator,

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Speaker 1: a world class performer, one of the best coaches in

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Speaker 1: hip hop. He's also releasing a classical music album, A

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Speaker 1: Ballet through Mud, inspired by some of his childhood lyrics,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that. Plus is illustrious

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Speaker 1: thirty plus years as a band leader, producer, His technique

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Speaker 1: is so much more. I can't believe that we finally

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Speaker 1: finally got the one and only Riza or in Court

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Speaker 1: Love Supreme. How you doing, sir?

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Speaker 2: Pace? Pace Pace is bog Bong and blessings and all.

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Speaker 1: That, Yo, you gotta tell me the history of bang

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Speaker 1: bong like I thought Tarik made that. When did bog

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Speaker 1: bong become your what I assume is your greeting and

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Speaker 1: your exit?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: Well, bong bong is like you know, growing up in

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Speaker 3: my hood, me and my cousins and uh, you know

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Speaker 3: Staples in Project Ghosts. We have a conversation and the

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Speaker 3: conversation would have a little not that many words in it.

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Speaker 3: It'd be like, yo, son, No, I'm not pushed through

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Speaker 3: my name Bong quoting like that's bog bong.

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Speaker 2: You know what I name bog and what happened?

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Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna make a woo

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Speaker 1: nomount of pier and say that bang bong is sort

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Speaker 1: of a wu tang version of an anamount of pier

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Speaker 1: like your your batman words bang bong bang by Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That means that be thing. You know, it's good, There

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Speaker 2: is all good. Where is it at you feeling? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Bang bong bong?

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Speaker 1: We here? I got you, I got you. How you

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Speaker 1: doing today? Bro? How's it going for you? You're You're

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Speaker 1: in La right now as we speak.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm in La right now. Q till just broke out.

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Speaker 3: We was brainstorming on some ideas. I know you already

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Speaker 3: shouted them out, real shouted them out, but we can't

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Speaker 3: shout it out enough. Congratulating them for the Rock and

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Speaker 3: Roll Hall of Fame with Trial call Quest, It's just

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Speaker 3: such a to me, a blessing for hip hop in particular.

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Speaker 3: It's a blessing for them, of course, first and foremost,

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Speaker 3: but even a blessing for hip hop.

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Speaker 2: Each time one of us get inducted into that world.

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Speaker 3: It just shows the validation of the culture are permeating,

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Speaker 3: you know, beyond its original thought scope at the end

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Speaker 3: of the day. Right in the beginning, it was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, certain things were unfathomable.

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Speaker 2: We can't you couldn't imagine that what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: My first house is down the street from the Rock

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Speaker 3: and Roll Hall of Fame, my first house in Cleveland, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Cleveland, Okay, you know.

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Speaker 3: Just seeing my pigs getting a chance to enter there,

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Speaker 3: it's a blessing. And yeah, I was just chopping up

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Speaker 3: with him, like before I jumped on with you.

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Speaker 1: Okay. It's rather notable that both you and him sort

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Speaker 1: of in the same space. For hip hop enthusiasts, at

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Speaker 1: least of my age, we always acknowledge that second week

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Speaker 1: of November. For a lot of hip hop hids, if

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the classic hip hop period starts, some

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Speaker 1: say either you know, it starts with criminal minded. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people feel as though the end of the

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Speaker 1: classic period is the double release of Midnight Marauders and

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Speaker 1: thirty six Chambers. I know of his story, especially with

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Speaker 1: his cannon. But for you, though, I would like to

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Speaker 1: know that particular day in November of nineteen ninety three

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Speaker 1: into the thirty six Chambers comes out. Are there any

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Speaker 1: sentimental memories that you have?

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Speaker 3: You know, for us, we was actually on a promo

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Speaker 3: tour at the same time, right, so you know, I'll

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Speaker 3: recall all of us being in one of those fifteen

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Speaker 3: passer white fans just on the destination record store signing

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Speaker 3: or radio, you know, just on that promo tour. Imber,

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Speaker 3: you know, we had mo Jo with us. He represented

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Speaker 3: the radio for Loud Records in r C A.

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Speaker 2: Charm. I don't know if you remember. Charm used to

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Speaker 2: be from Tommy Boyce. She came up with the r

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Speaker 2: C A M.

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Speaker 3: And I actually remember the kid Lee Royd, the guy

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Speaker 3: who we used to is just like probably heckle him

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Speaker 3: and dealing with the rule was was like you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was a missing right and this day

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Speaker 3: was like I think our you know, even my.

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Speaker 2: My feelings was, you know, I used the word elation.

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Speaker 3: I was late right, feeling like, wow, this this album

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Speaker 3: is being shared.

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Speaker 2: With the world, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And and you know, the confidence which was at the

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Speaker 3: highest level.

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Speaker 2: I gotta say that.

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Speaker 3: You know, we didn't enter with our music without the

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Speaker 3: confidence of surety of that it was gonna be some.

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Speaker 2: Ship, you know what I mean. We was like, we

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Speaker 2: kind of like some ship. Yo, it's going it's gonna

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Speaker 2: fuck niggas up. Excuse my language, but this.

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Speaker 3: Is like, you know, you want to take me back

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Speaker 3: to that. You gotta take me back to the grid.

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Speaker 3: So it's like Nigga's gonna be screaming this ship.

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Speaker 2: You'll watch. We're gonna fuck him up. They're gonna shake niggas,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: We was on it, right, And the interesting thing that

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Speaker 3: happens by the evening, we're going to different record stores.

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Speaker 2: Snoop Dog comes out that day as well. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you record.

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Speaker 1: That, Okay, I do you remember Doggy Style coming out

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Speaker 1: around November.

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Speaker 2: And either that day or the week before.

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Speaker 3: But but Master Killer gets in the car with that,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and throws that in you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, and it's like, oh, okay, and

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Speaker 3: travers already was already family like, you know, our history

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Speaker 3: was already tied in so.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it was just one of those it was.

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Speaker 3: It was a great day for hip hop, to be

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Speaker 3: quite honest, you know what I mean, And listening to

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Speaker 3: those albums while.

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Speaker 2: We're driving listening to our album, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It was just like it felt like hip hop had

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Speaker 3: a chance again, because yo, how we felt.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if we talk about this a lot, but.

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Speaker 3: You just you just point out, you know, criminal minded,

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Speaker 3: you know, talking about you know, Kim in eighty six,

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Speaker 3: Carris went eighty seven. You know, by the time we

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Speaker 3: got to ninety one, it wasn't happening like that no more, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, eighty seven and eighty nine you might have

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Speaker 3: got it, you know, ninety ninety one, it's it went

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Speaker 3: into a different chamber. And were very dissatisfied with that,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and even ourselves when we

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Speaker 3: were striving to get out there.

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Speaker 2: It's like the.

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Speaker 3: Industry was trying to chase that shame. And when we

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Speaker 3: got a chance just to say, oh, we're doing hip

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Speaker 3: hop like you can't. And I didn't hope, I hope,

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Speaker 3: not hope. I hope, I hope not say this egotistically

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Speaker 3: quest but you can't not deny that even if Wu

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Speaker 3: Tang Clan eventually ends up in the Rock and Low

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Speaker 3: Hall of thing, right, but you can't deny that first album.

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Speaker 2: The only category for it at that time was hip hop.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like you could take some

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Speaker 3: of the albums and no disrespect, Like you could take

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Speaker 3: mc hammer and you could say that maybe it's funk,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's whatever it you know, that's because he's rapping

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Speaker 3: over it.

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Speaker 2: Don't make it hip hop. You see what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Now, with the rival of Wu Tang from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: especially the genius relentless way that you guys kind of

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Speaker 1: served us between ninety three and ninety five with the

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Speaker 1: five solo records, the group album, like it felt like okay,

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Speaker 1: hip hop is is steady, like this is this is

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Speaker 1: our lane? And little did we know, Like after nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven, just a change happened in which it was

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Speaker 1: kind of like a tsunami with with where hip hop,

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Speaker 1: at least the hip hop culture that you and I

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Speaker 1: are used to, and a lot of that had to

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Speaker 1: do with sample clearances and you know, sort of people

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Speaker 1: seeing it as a business, whereas you know, we could

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Speaker 1: get away with whatever because not many people were looking

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Speaker 1: down our throats as creators. But then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: it's like you got to clear the snare and this

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Speaker 1: hook and all that stuff. But for you, in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: did you realize that the Wu Tang's entry was going

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Speaker 1: to sort of be the end of something that didn't

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Speaker 1: seem like it was ever going to end as far

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Speaker 1: as that particular spirit of hip hop is concerned.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I saw that as the end,

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Speaker 3: because I think it waved right, it went, It came

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Speaker 3: in different forms even now some people say, well, Bizzelda

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Speaker 3: is a version of that, right, So you know, at

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Speaker 3: one point it was in odd future was another version

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think it ended.

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Speaker 1: But what is there?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: The spirit is there, but kind.

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Speaker 2: Of the the sad.

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Speaker 3: But from my perspective, right, so being in it is different. Right,

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Speaker 3: So from my perspective, it's almost like it was like

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Speaker 3: we were counted. Okay, hip hop was counted by business,

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Speaker 3: countered by legalities and interpolation laws, counted even by how.

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Speaker 2: Can I say this hot ninety seven?

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Speaker 3: Like from Master Reflects Sat down with me, and you know,

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Speaker 3: he apologized to me, right, and he basically was like yo,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you know, there was

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Speaker 3: an agenda to stop it, like to like to to

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Speaker 3: be like, YO, cut that off, turn this up, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And if you're you know.

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Speaker 3: A white Castle burger is a white Castle burger, right,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: But they you know, we lined up for that, right,

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Speaker 2: not knowing the law something effect.

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Speaker 3: Of it versus something home cook. And so I'm naive,

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Speaker 3: to be quite frank with your brother, I'm pretty naive

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Speaker 3: about the world in a way because especially at that

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Speaker 3: time of my life, I'm focused on the world. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to see right right, Like I'm a type of

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Speaker 3: dude that well.

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Speaker 1: That's called living in the present, which is what it

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Speaker 1: should be doing, right Exactly.

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Speaker 3: Until I saw five Deli Venoms back in Blockbuster, I

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Speaker 3: wasn't happy, you know what I mean, because it's like

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Speaker 3: I got to go to the bootlegs store for that,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I wanted whatever we was

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Speaker 3: bringing to the culture to be a valuable you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean. I wanted to see a Spoting Man

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Speaker 3: movie or I Am Man movie, like so so it

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Speaker 3: was so I'm living in that narrow bubble of striving

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Speaker 3: to express to the world the childhood that I thought

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Speaker 3: was healthier and better creatively. Right, So then I don't

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Speaker 3: pay attention that I'm being countered. And even though I

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Speaker 3: was being counted, you know, and when I was loved,

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Speaker 3: I was being counted by my peers and even by

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Speaker 3: you know, by the system itself.

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Speaker 2: You know, I learned that years later. But fortunately, fortunately

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Speaker 2: for wo there's still a level.

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Speaker 3: Of purity in us as as people you know, like

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Speaker 3: ghost face is just always go these ghost face It's

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Speaker 3: like that's it. And so fortunately for that, whatever happened

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Speaker 3: out in the world or whatever was changing, we didn't

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Speaker 3: go so far. You know, they go too far to

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Speaker 3: chase you, you know what I mean, they ain't gonna say that,

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Speaker 3: and you know, look this way and look this way

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Speaker 3: and checked out, checked out, but you didn't go too

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Speaker 3: far to chase it.

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Speaker 2: And I so, so I guess you know the answer

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Speaker 2: your question is like, in.

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Speaker 3: Hindsight, I didn't see the ending because it didn't end

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Speaker 3: in me. But in hindsight and learning what I know now,

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Speaker 3: it's like, man, motherfuckers was actually trying to kick me

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Speaker 3: out the room.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I feel you so right now. I'm working on the Earth,

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Speaker 1: Wind and Fire documentary, and a lot of what I

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Speaker 1: know about your modus operandi is sort of parallel with

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Speaker 1: where Maurice White was informing Earth would in fire, him

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Speaker 1: using astrology, him having an affinity for the number nine, literally,

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Speaker 1: like him writing manifesting a manifesto of what he wants

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Speaker 1: the group to do, what he wants the group to achieve,

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Speaker 1: things that I've known you've done as far as like

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Speaker 1: planning out what I'm going to organize, who's going to

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Speaker 1: be in the circle, and how we're going to do it.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of cats don't know that that's metaphysics

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Speaker 1: or manifesting, but that's exactly how Maurice White structured Earth

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Speaker 1: would in Fire. Like I don't know if I'm necessarily

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Speaker 1: a coach in the way that you were a coach,

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Speaker 1: but how exhausting is it, especially in those first five years,

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Speaker 1: How exhausting is it in being the head coach or

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Speaker 1: the the facto leader of this empire? First of all,

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Speaker 1: why nine members for the Wu Tang Clint?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Was that on purpose or was that just like who

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Speaker 1: was there.

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Speaker 2: No, No, At first it was eight right.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I understand Master Killer's situation, so I still count

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Speaker 1: him in terms of.

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Speaker 2: Oh he became nine by the time.

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Speaker 3: You know, first it was eight, right, like the eight

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Speaker 3: points on the star, right, Okay, that's why. That's why

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Speaker 3: I look, I sai, I'm the seven in the center

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Speaker 3: of the eight point star.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of things that was aspiring me was mathematics,

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Speaker 2: knowledge of self, knowing.

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Speaker 3: That a determined idea is his power was a nuclear bomb.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it took a determinent idea to make can

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Speaker 3: nuclear ball. So having that impulse over me, and knowing

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Speaker 3: that the MC's that was in my community that I

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Speaker 3: was friends with buddies where it had demo tapes with,

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Speaker 3: knowing that the industry actually needed it in my opinion,

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Speaker 3: like the industry needed a joke of the real people

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Speaker 3: that's living it, right, and not just some of the

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Speaker 3: people and and hope helping out saying this in a

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Speaker 3: non offensive way, but not just some of the.

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Speaker 2: People who was like already in or who went through

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Speaker 2: their experience.

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Speaker 3: It's like crazy thing about Wu Tang that's kind of

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Speaker 3: crazy than it's it's.

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Speaker 2: Seven felons in ute mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's the people that's written off, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, it's probably man, it might be eight

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Speaker 3: high school dropouts, you know what I'm saying. So this

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Speaker 3: is the people that that ain't gonna get a chance

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Speaker 3: in all reality. And yet this is the people that's

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Speaker 3: that's loving hip hop, living hip hop right, their lyrics

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Speaker 3: and misspelling the words in some phases, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. And to my ear and to my knowledge

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Speaker 3: of the of the industry itself, I was like, Nah,

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Speaker 3: this band of MC's right can naturally come through and

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Speaker 3: rock the world. And I was and I'll have the

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Speaker 3: validation of course of the USA in od B right,

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Speaker 3: I have thedation as well, meaning they agreed and when

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Speaker 3: the rest of the klan agreed to the idea, right,

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Speaker 3: and we all live by mathematics.

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Speaker 2: Who says, once you make an.

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Speaker 3: Agreement, you got to live up to that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you got to live through your world. Your

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Speaker 3: world is your bond. Right, So once we agree that this,

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Speaker 3: you know that this idea, this course of action is

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Speaker 3: the course of action to take to go ahead, and

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Speaker 3: you know we're and we're starving for domination, like that

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Speaker 3: wasn't a target for us, right, a target to be

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Speaker 3: number one U once once we agree that we're going

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Speaker 3: to do that, and then somebody at the front of

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Speaker 3: of the of the sphere at that time, I was

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Speaker 3: like the tip of the spear. I see the target.

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Speaker 3: I just need y'all to fit the force behind me,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean with that aspiration and inspiration.

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Speaker 3: Yes that I saw that clearly, even if nobody else

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Speaker 3: saw it, right, Because sometimes you may ask another rouple

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Speaker 3: member that you said, now he didn't see it, or

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Speaker 3: he didn't.

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Speaker 2: See it here once and y'all saw it, or once

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Speaker 2: y'all believe.

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Speaker 1: Did they believe you? Like were they all in the

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Speaker 1: room at the same time, or was it just like

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Speaker 1: sort of some Hollywood Yeah, let's do lunch it like okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll make a record like.

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Speaker 2: We gather it, we build you know.

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Speaker 3: I verbalized it, you know, and look one of the

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Speaker 3: Timple quotes of it that I.

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Speaker 2: Used for always. I'm a god of analogies, So my

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Speaker 2: analogy to them was like.

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Speaker 3: Yo, the only way we're going to get there is

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Speaker 3: if you guys, let me drive the bus with no

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Speaker 3: questions and you always be the passengers, and I promise

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Speaker 3: I'll get us there, but I don't need nobody, like

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Speaker 3: it has to be a dictatorship in all reality.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: That was that was like, that's what I need, right,

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Speaker 3: because I'm gonna with outfls okay, given moment, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, anybody can knock anybody out if it's on

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 2: Because there's no chumps here.

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Speaker 3: It's all we're bill men, right, So therefore conflict can't

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Speaker 3: exist because the conflict would be self destruction. And so

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Speaker 3: we all got to agree that the abbot is driving

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Speaker 3: the bus and when we get there, I said, I

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Speaker 3: need five years to get there though, And when I

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Speaker 3: get there then it's cool. And we got there, right,

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Speaker 3: But everybody agreed, and even when it got a little

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Speaker 3: weird here or weird there, the agreement always came up.

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Speaker 3: And in the reaffirmation of the agreement. So so these

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Speaker 3: four other brothers like nah Son, that ain't right because

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Speaker 3: we gave our word, right, you know. And so so

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Speaker 3: that's I mean, that's a long answer to the question.

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Speaker 3: But let me add on one mother, one other thing.

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Speaker 3: When you talk about you know how winning fire yourself,

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Speaker 3: you know, Maurice White, yourself myself as this coach position. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's taxing. It's not easy, you know. I had a

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Speaker 3: lyric about it. I said something about I said, rhyming

355
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 3: to me is easier than breathing, and making beasts for

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Speaker 3: me is easier than peeing.

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Speaker 2: But fucking with the Wu Tang clan, it's like riding

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Speaker 2: down a thousand foot hill through pine trees and snow

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Speaker 2: on one ski.

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Speaker 1: I see that, right, But I know that right, right.

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Speaker 2: We take that ride. So it was tough, right, and

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Speaker 2: it was tough.

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Speaker 3: I will never deny that I got you, but it

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Speaker 3: was actually in hindsight now and living as the man

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Speaker 3: I am today, it was also the greatest forging of

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Speaker 3: myself that I ever could have gotten, Like I would

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Speaker 3: not be the father I am, the man that I

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Speaker 3: am if those experiences didn't happen in my life. If

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Speaker 3: those whether there was arguments or challenges or even submissions

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Speaker 3: to ideas, if I didn't experience that, right, It's like

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Speaker 3: my best example, I was doing my film, right, I

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Speaker 3: had one of people working for me yo, right, I

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Speaker 3: have a list actors, and I had all these personalities.

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Speaker 3: If I didn't have already dealt with that in my

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Speaker 3: youth with the WU I wouldn't know how to deal

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Speaker 3: with it then, right, And and the way I handled it,

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Speaker 3: the executives they gave me another job because it's like, Yo,

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Speaker 3: this guy could handle some shit.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever have self doubts because of everything you've done?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking about scoring directing, Like, have you

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Speaker 1: ever met a challenge in which you were sort of like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure?

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Speaker 3: I mean, and of course, right, but I would just

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Speaker 3: say that if there's a solution that exists, I strived

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Speaker 3: for the solution.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I remember when we were as young, they say nobody

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Speaker 3: is perfect, right, And when I was about seventeen eighteen

389
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 3: years old, I had already you know, I knew one

390
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty lessons already. So one of the twenty lessons,

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Speaker 3: you know what that is? I gotta spain that, right. So,

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Speaker 3: and then brothers move on to what they call plus lessons.

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Speaker 3: And with plus lessons, you know, you're you're learning outside

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Speaker 3: of the teachings, right, Other brothers contribution to the teachings.

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Speaker 3: And then I became started writing my own, right, and

396
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Speaker 3: so I wrote one called Striving for Perfection, right, And

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Speaker 3: as I was getting this out, of my system. The

398
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Speaker 3: question was, we always say that somebody is imperfect, But

399
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Speaker 3: if I accept that I'm imperfect, then I'll never have perfection.

400
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 3: So I can so I gotta know, I got to

401
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Speaker 3: accept that I'm perfect, that there is a solution to perfection.

402
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: Right, and if there is that, then I can be that,

403
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

404
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 3: And so by writing that out into a textual form

405
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: and reading it and passing it to my students and

406
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 3: memorizing it and quoting it, it gave me an extra

407
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 3: level of confidence of like, you know what, at the

408
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Speaker 3: end of the day, there's a mathematical solution to it.

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Speaker 2: And when I say mathematical, mathematical.

410
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 3: Could be a physical, spiritual, emotional, social, economic, right, mental.

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00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 3: It ain't just arithmetical, you know what I mean, or

412
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Speaker 3: adding division and subtracting.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like, yo, that might require a spiritual solution.

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Speaker 3: That might BEQUI your economic solution, right, that might be

415
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 3: QUI your physical solution, you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And so knowing that and being confident that those solutions exist, yeah,

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00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 3: you know.

419
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Speaker 2: And I always say our perator is due to a law.

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00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 3: I could go into those bags and bring that and

421
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 3: utilize it to find that answer.

422
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: And I'll just say this last piece on it.

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Speaker 3: Artistically though, it's like art duties in the eye of

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00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 3: the behold the right.

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Speaker 2: So first I gotta just see it as being beautiful,

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Speaker 2: all right?

427
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: I take that. Do you have a spiritual practice of

428
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: meditation or like, do you write affirmations down?

429
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 2: Do you?

430
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: Or is it just something in you, a confidence in

431
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Speaker 1: you that says I'm gonna achieve that.

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00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 3: Yes, it's it's internal now right at this age. Right,

433
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna keep going to mathematics on this conversation.

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Speaker 3: I don't have good a chance.

435
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: I understand it.

436
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 3: Good hit me once a man hits forty, right, according

437
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: to mathematics. For us, for freedom, culture and freedom right,

438
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 3: culture's your way of life. Freedom is the freeer dome

439
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 3: from ignorance and foolishness that keeps you dumb or numb

440
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 3: to the world.

441
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: Right.

442
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: So if you have culture and freedom right, you get

443
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 3: your forties, you now should be free from.

444
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 2: All that other shit that you dealt with.

445
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,479
Speaker 3: Physically free, you know what I mean, because your body

446
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: is already now evolved. And so once that happened in

447
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: my life, I accepted that. So I accept every mathematic

448
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 3: of my life in my thirties. It says three is

449
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 3: for understanding. So you got to understand what you're going through.

450
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 3: So first you got to understand knowledge, understand wisdom, right,

451
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: understand even understanding that.

452
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: So therefore your understanding becomes what understood. Right, got to

453
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: understand coach.

454
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 3: All these different degrees, I keep those applied to myself,

455
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: and therefore I'm able to forecast myself or at least

456
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 3: know where I'm at in space and time.

457
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: And that's a big equation for us with man, women

458
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: and child.

459
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: Strive to always know where you're at in space and time.

460
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 3: Some dudes are still in the nineties or the two thousands,

461
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 3: like hold on, son, take a look where you're at

462
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: in the space and time now right now, and then

463
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 3: also know where the rest of your cipher is and

464
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 3: the rest of the things are around you. So of

465
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: course our.

466
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: Lesson teach just a fast and to pray. So yeah,

467
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: faster than prayer is healthy, right, super healthy.

468
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 3: But the first lesson is knowledge, it says do Knowledge

469
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 3: is not just a word of uh. That's why Kim

470
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: said right in the lyric, no, the ledge, but knowledge

471
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 3: becomes an act, a physical act, right, so it ain't

472
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: just reading. So the mathematics that knowledge is to look, listen, observe,

473
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 3: and also respect. Now you may look at something, you

474
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 3: may listen to something, but did you observe it?

475
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: And did you respect it?

476
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 3: And if you miss any of those components, you're not

477
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: doing the knowledge because knowledge is the basics foundation and

478
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 3: off that foundation of walking into a room and look first,

479
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 3: who observed it?

480
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? You listen and you respected it?

481
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

482
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: That's part of my uh, you know, spiritual affirmation. I

483
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: guess that ask your question and my my surety of

484
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: my movements.

485
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: So what does that mean for you now that you're

486
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: fifty five? Right?

487
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 3: So now power power, that's truth top of truth. That's

488
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: why I'm talking like this now. I wouldn't even have

489
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: spoke like this because I would have kept it more personal,

490
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 3: right Like even when I just said to you earlier

491
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 3: about yoall they told me that they shut the door

492
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: on me yo, and they apologized to that, and I'm

493
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 3: cool with that.

494
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: I remember I told one of my peers.

495
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: He was like, Yo, yeah, I.

496
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: Sabotaged your whole shit. I said, yeah, you kind of

497
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: fucked me up for like a week. That's it.

498
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: I believe that you're speaking of the infamous Hot ninety

499
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: seven summer stage incident. See I was in Europe at.

500
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: That time, so I said, yeah, you guys, wasn't in Europe.

501
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 1: We were, I mean we were living in Europe for

502
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: like six months, six to seven months, especially during the summer.

503
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: But so basically, an incident happened in Hot ninety seven

504
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: that rubbed them the wrong way, and they were basically like,

505
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: we're not playing you guys anymore.

506
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

507
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: Basically, first of all, we were sabotaged, which is cool.

508
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: Happened.

509
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: Hey, that's a fight fight, you know, it's like the

510
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: five heart Beat. Remember before they came out and guy

511
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: was like.

512
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: This next bancterd, they're better than the Temptations.

513
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 3: And trying to monkey minch it right and Yo, at

514
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you know, a couple of

515
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: members spoke up on that on the spot, fuck that

516
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: you're fuck y'all right, because at the end of the day,

517
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 3: one of the members was like, yo, fuck Hot nice

518
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: on the mic to the crowd. Get the crowd. Yeah,

519
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 3: it goes like for Hot ninety seven, right, So they

520
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: took that personal, but in reality, Bhutang built.

521
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: Hot ninety seven.

522
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: True.

523
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 3: Okay, So all of a sudden, you're trying to tell

524
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: us that we got to do this and change that

525
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 3: when when we are, we're the one that brought to

526
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: your audience. Right, the audience is the proof of the

527
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: pudding is that we got thirty thousand kids in front

528
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 3: of us, right, not just from a summer jam.

529
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 2: You're on tour, raised against the machine.

530
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: So we are still that power magnetic to audiences. And

531
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: yet you're not spending our mute because we didn't hit

532
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: you with a hook.

533
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: My first song didn't have no hook. He was gonna

534
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: hit you with a hook when we ready.

535
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 3: To hit you with a hook, protecting that had no hook,

536
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: we won't Tryum, this is lyricism. But when they pulled

537
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: the plug, it's a it's a chain reaction though they's

538
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 3: just first, that's that's our biggest New York was the

539
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 3: biggest market, right, and it's all a trend setting market,

540
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: right and then em It's at the same time had

541
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 3: sister stations, So yo, we plug pull it here, we

542
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: pull it here, and Homeboy over here. We're gonna pull

543
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 3: it over here too, right, and that's all good, Like

544
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: I said. The funny thing about it is, you know,

545
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: as it's now explained to me or even apologize or

546
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: even admitted to I. Just like I said, I'm so

547
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: naive and sh like I said, I was why he

548
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: fucked up for like a week.

549
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: And it ain't mean nothing to me, you know what

550
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: I mean?

551
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: Because it never governed what I was doing. It never

552
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 3: made me be who I am. That's something that artists

553
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: sometimes lose faith.

554
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: Well, and you were outsiders anyway, so it's not like

555
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: that didn't matter. You existed because you found ways to

556
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: get in without the mainstream, right right.

557
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 3: And also the add to that, we also existed because

558
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: we were us. But it's almost like, look, most people

559
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: are not gonna be able to get the s, the

560
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: twelve tables. They gotta like you gotta work up to

561
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 3: that Gemini. Yeah, you might not even know what that is,

562
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: right right. So it's just like, Yo, I'm okay, I'm

563
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: okay being rare.

564
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna being like you gotta come over here to

565
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: get that.

566
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: Here's the strange connection between you and nine that Rage tour.

567
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: We wound up replacing you guys on the Rage Tour.

568
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: I got it. I didn't know that.

569
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: Number one that literally changed our lives. Like that helped

570
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: me buy a house, which subsequently helped me buy equipment,

571
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: then help me by you know, helped me make things

572
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: fall apart, like literally, you know, at that time, we

573
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: were sort of living hand to mouth, gig the gig.

574
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: You know, we're cool this week, We're gonna be broke

575
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: next week, hopefully a gig comes in. Oh, we got

576
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: a gig. We'll make it. But that was the first

577
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: time that we were able to sustain monetarily.

578
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: At least consistency.

579
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: That helped. Yeah, that helped in ways you don't even matter.

580
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: So that was a blessing to me. But in hindsight,

581
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: I always wonder because you know, you guys are beetles

582
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: and are rolling stones. So it's like, do you wish

583
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: that you guys had seen that tour all the way through?

584
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: Because I would imagine that you guys would have just

585
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: toured the world, and really it would have been just

586
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: another level, a higher level of madness for you guys. Yeah,

587
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm happy how it turned out, why I'm here right now.

588
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: Literally that that that changed my life. But from your perspective,

589
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: do you wish that you like saw that tour through.

590
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: First of all, I'm glad that as you tell me

591
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: that I didn't know that that our era because we

592
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: made an error that was wrong for us not to

593
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: complete that tool, you.

594
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. It was a miscompulation by the

595
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: crew right not to do that.

596
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, that's the outfulness

597
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: of whoa if you really look at it. The promise

598
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: was given to me in nineteen ninety two. This is

599
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven. The time is up, okay, And it

600
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: was acts in a democratic way. First of all, it

601
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 3: was happening like even without like on some of those

602
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: on some nights of that tour.

603
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: You may see only father of us there, yea.

604
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: And so it was already starting to be like yo,

605
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: brothers come in and out when they when they was

606
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: feeling it, you know what I mean. But then it

607
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: was like yo, you do we want to I think

608
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: it was in Chicago, was like you want to stay

609
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 3: on the tour or not?

610
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: And we took a vote and brothers want it off.

611
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: Right. Do you think that that whole experience was just

612
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: jarring for them to get to that level. Do you

613
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: think that there was just a fear of seeing it

614
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: through was it just too much because my first night

615
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: of that ship, I was scared to death, like all

616
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: those kids jumping in. What the fuck is this?

617
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: Right?

618
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: I think in hindsight, I've heard some of the brothers

619
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: bring that up, like maybe there was some type of

620
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: fears and somebody. The plan was this toward raids in

621
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 3: the summer m m. And then we hit the colleges

622
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: during the homecoming season.

623
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: Mm hm, right, But I think the crew wanted to.

624
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 3: Go home first. They wanted to fill this called the

625
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: Black Law first. When we dropped the new album, right,

626
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: they wanted to start there. I say, now, don't start there,

627
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: because that's what we left for at right, So let's

628
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: start here and they come back around.

629
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: To get the international first and then come.

630
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: And the connection of those type of big concerts, especially

631
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: when you're young, right, both big concerts. If you're not, like,

632
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: how can I explain this? Look, some artists need to

633
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: like have their leg touched by the person in a

634
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: thousand seedar like they need to they need to smell it. Yeah,

635
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: And some artists could fucking sit in the middle of

636
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: the stage empty on a stool with thirty thousand people

637
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: in front of them and just play their guitar and

638
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: and and hit.

639
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: You with the Jannet chaplain, you know what I mean?

640
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: Right, And so in us we had that mix of

641
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: those who would be that way like like, you know,

642
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: I'm probably more of a I'm probably the rock and

643
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 3: roll energy of the crew, you know what I mean,

644
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 3: the sense of that methods also the stadium energy of

645
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: the crew, right, are more like yo, I'm gonna.

646
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: Knock you out street hustler club of the crew.

647
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: Right.

648
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: So because of that, because of that type of energy

649
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: at that point in our lives, you know, twenty five

650
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: years old, twenty six years old, whatever, I think that

651
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: it may have been some type of I don't know.

652
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: I don't use the word fear, but definitely uncomfortability. But

653
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: I'm all say this, and I said it a hundred

654
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: times and I'll say it again.

655
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: It was an I'm going to circle your whole career.

656
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: But I have to know the night that you made

657
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: protect your neck. One, how long did that session take?

658
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: And two? How did you determine the sort of format

659
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: of the song? Because you know, you Got has eight

660
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: bars and Old Dirty has twenty four bars and just

661
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: that has twenty four. But Go says sixteen, Like, how

662
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: did you measure and plan that out? Like as far

663
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: as the order is concerned, and no hook or none

664
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: of that stuff.

665
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: Well, it was a two day session. Actually.

666
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 3: That was one of those songs where you got to

667
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 3: come back to the studio, right, Okay, fact ghost went

668
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: home and rewrote this verse.

669
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: There's another version with a different verse. Yeah.

670
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: Well at the time, he was also boast was going through.

671
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: Ghost was also evolved in right, right, Dirty was evolved,

672
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 3: was evolved, you know what I mean. Meth and Deck

673
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: and Ray Ray was amazing, right when Ray didn't have

674
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: a lot of bars written, he had stopped writing for

675
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: some years. Kind of interesting, but I just know Ghosts

676
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: was like, you know because when he's from Stables and

677
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 3: they from Park Hills.

678
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: So he was like, yo, I got it.

679
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 3: I got to go back and and come with my

680
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: stables and shit, right, just coming from Brooklyn, Dirty coming

681
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 3: from Brooklyn. So it was like you had that competition, right,

682
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: But for me, I kind of had a knowledge of

683
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: their voices as instruments, right, and then also had a

684
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 3: knowledge of the potency of the lyric to be quite frank, Yeah,

685
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 3: I edited I edited some shit, Yo, got it?

686
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: You know? What I mean to be quite frank, I

687
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: was like, boom boop, chop that chop that. Now that

688
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: I got the structure.

689
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: Right, just go kill it.

690
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying, got it?

691
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 3: Because really that had probably twenty four bars right and

692
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 3: the beat straight with your quest?

693
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: So do you have a version of the song in

694
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: which is the complete the original?

695
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 3: The original for Tech your Neck really was an inspected

696
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: deck track that we had recorded prior called It's not

697
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: your average flow, okay, And so what happened was I

698
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: had that track and we were like, yo, this, take

699
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 3: that track to the studio. That beat was killing. Let

700
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: deck kill that. I'm gonna make that the joint. But

701
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 3: in the studio I was like nah, nah, And that

702
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: actually took the sample out of it, and we made

703
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: the whole track from like from scratch and like and realized,

704
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: which is interesting, I would say this to you. I

705
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 3: took the samples out and I just played the base

706
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: line and then took all the little samples and this

707
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: was like doing it like that more like versus yeah,

708
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: doing it manually. And the reason why you won't a

709
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: version of that because there's only a sixteen track of

710
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 3: machine at that time we had, and so therefore we

711
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: got two guys on the same track. It's just like

712
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: the hook is on another track, that dirty is gonna

713
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 3: come on that same track, and it's no other place

714
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 3: to put that at. There's the other place to put

715
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 3: my curses or the blocks or the curses.

716
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: I guess like I have to do it right. Yeah,

717
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: but you know, you.

718
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 3: Know, I'm quite sure you probably had a four track

719
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 3: growing up as well.

720
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: I love that dirtiness, so I still collect for a

721
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: track machines and cassettes like I vow like one day

722
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: Tarika and I are gonna make the record that we

723
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: used to make it, like we used to always make

724
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: albums in our bedroom, you know, before we got a

725
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: deal and all that stuff. But I still dream of

726
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: making just the dirtiest, stinkiness sonic sounding record, Like that's

727
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: my dream.

728
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: But let me ask a quick question if you don't mine,

729
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, you know. First of all, let me

730
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: just say thank you for inviting me to the podcast.

731
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: Glad we found time to do it.

732
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: Thank you.

733
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: This should be my second or third visit.

734
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: First, I was waiting for you, man, I was I

735
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: was patient.

736
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: You guys are credited, and I think I can't find

737
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 3: another physical form of it. I know that sept the

738
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: Sonic called themselves the hip hop band, but you guys

739
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 3: are really the first official hip hop band. I know

740
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: the Fujis may have a little bit of say so

741
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: in some of that she as well, but you guys

742
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 3: are the first official.

743
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: I just want to know.

744
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: My question to you is, like, you know, coming up

745
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 3: as a musician, you came up as a drummer.

746
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: Am I correct?

747
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: Yes, started as a drummer.

748
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: So what was like?

749
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, she that's like, Yo, I'm a drummer. It ain't

750
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: no sampler. I'm gonna play the drums and we're gonna

751
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 3: make a fucking hip hop album. What was in your mind?

752
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: What's weird? And I'm not even blowing smoke or or whatever,

753
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: but you and Dilla taught me shit about the drums,

754
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: because the thing is is that, you know, especially with

755
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: black drummers, after the Richard Nixon era, now before the

756
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: Richard Nixon era, what you had was you had migrants

757
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: of families moving to the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit.

758
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: They had these great factory jobs that enabled them to

759
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: buy houses. And in these houses, of course, garage bands

760
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: are starting in the garage, in the den, schooling, you

761
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: learned an instrument, and then all that shit got cut

762
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, of course, and that's where hip

763
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: hop culture starts and what happens around Like I'll say,

764
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: like eighty one eighty two, the true place that a

765
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: black musician could express themselves was the church, you know.

766
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: And what's weird is that if every musician you know

767
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: in your neighborhood is that church waiting for their chance

768
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: to get you know, there'd be eight drummers, five keyboard players,

769
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: five guitarists, and they're all waiting in the wings, like

770
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: when's my turn? When's my turn? What starts to happen

771
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: is this this where we are? It's sold now, like

772
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: the reason why you can't find a group of black

773
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: musicians to play like Al Jackson and the Stacks house

774
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: Band sort of like because I always wonder, like, yo,

775
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: don't musicians now know that if you record some shit,

776
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: like when I record some shit on record, I want

777
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: to underplay it so that way future is this future

778
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: Dyla's future? Whoever? I mean, it could be silent the

779
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: creator that they'll be Like that's the part I want

780
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: to sample. But what happens is church musicianship made it

781
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: this evil Knievel shit where it's like I gotta show

782
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: you that I can play my ass off in eight

783
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: seconds this whole you know what I mean. And it's

784
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: like like we're used to it now because every musician

785
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: is a church drummer. But for me, I wanted to

786
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: sound like like the Stacks box set that really set

787
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: your legacy. I too wanted to sound like that, so

788
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: like and I'm talking about the filler cuts, fish knowledge, God,

789
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: the way them drums sound so dirty, like that's what

790
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: I was. I'm like, this is this there's feeling to it,

791
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Until that phase of hip

792
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: hop came in three like the renaissance period of hip

793
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: hop came like for me, I thought, damn man, like

794
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: I got to keep up with these other like dar devils. Okay,

795
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: the question I always wanted to ask you of all

796
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: your work, like you know how when you purchased a

797
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: classic hip hop album, like when shit comes out like

798
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: classic shit like the day that Longly the Cane came

799
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: out and Tarik and I are like in my house

800
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: together like staring at the speaker, having listening sessions and

801
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: almost discussions as each song goes by, like especially on

802
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: the tour of Bus. Nothing paralyzed me more than verbal intercourse.

803
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: What happened was dirty was in Stockholm, Sweden. He did

804
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: a show that Friday night or that Saturday and left

805
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: behind in the dressing room the purple tape. Mind you,

806
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: we have been living in Europe and like going through

807
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: the shit like and this before the Internet and all

808
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: that shit. So we were literally living off of brand

809
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: Ubians Everything is Everything, the main ingredient by Pete Rock

810
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: and see how Smooth.

811
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 2: To cal.

812
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 1: It was like five cassettes that kept us alive insane

813
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: during that whole like run and he had a pre

814
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: copy of Cuban Links which was like, you know, we

815
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: could have cried tears of joy, like we got new

816
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: hip hop. Like I can't believe this because minds, you

817
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: were in Europe. It's not like oh yeah, dude, when

818
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: we got to verbal intercourse, we had to stop the tapement.

819
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: It's like, yo, are they allowed to just rhyme over

820
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: people talking like that? Like what the fuck for? Our listeners?

821
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: Still don't know emotions? If you if you say, you

822
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: might as well do it. The beginning loop is literally

823
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: like Wanda hutchisoning, I don't want to love him, but

824
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: what if he hurts me? And like literally was rule breaking,

825
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: And we had like a twenty minute discussion like wait

826
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: a minute, are they allowed to rhyme over people talking?

827
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: It was almost like we wanted to take y'all to

828
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: deposition court to see if that was allowed in the

829
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: world of music. Now we have equipment that can erase

830
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: vocals and just you know all that shit, But what

831
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: were you thinking when you loot that ship.

832
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 3: Well, by the time we got to that point of

833
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 3: Cuba Links, I think lyricism, our ego and our ability

834
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 3: to hear from all the other songs we've created and

835
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 3: all the things that we now showed to the world

836
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 3: was getting to a higher level. What I mean by

837
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 3: that is that at one point, no, you couldn't rhyme

838
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: while somebody else was talking because you couldn't even consciously

839
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: do it, right, Okay, But now our mastery of space

840
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: and cadens is there, right, so becuse then time it

841
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 3: could be I've lined to it first, right, so I

842
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 3: know it could be, yeah, doctor, whether I do it

843
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 3: to them in the space or whether I just do it.

844
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 3: I make sure that it can be rhyme too. That's

845
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 3: the reason why I made it right. So by that

846
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 3: time we got to there the.

847
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: But what if he I want to love him? But

848
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: what it's like?

849
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: It was to me, it was like that was part

850
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: of the beat and all I did and I just

851
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 3: added bevy wiz snarres.

852
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: The problem with that track was.

853
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: Because it wasn't there was no problem.

854
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 3: No, I'll said the problem as a producer for me, right,

855
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: it wasn't.

856
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: Really it was unquantizable.

857
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 3: I know, okay, right, So if you look at it,

858
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 3: the chick you can't make a beat on a beat

859
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 3: machine with it. You gotta hit sit there and hit

860
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 3: the fucking sit every fucking time on the track.

861
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: So you took the quantizer off.

862
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck the quantizer.

863
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: Here's the thing though, So on the first album I

864
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: was like, all right, y'all, is there is a goddamn

865
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: genius or did he just read the first three pages

866
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: of the manual and decided to wing the west. We

867
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: had a term called the accidental tourist. Right in making

868
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: our first album, you know, I would have to play

869
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: to a click track and sort of fluctuate, and then

870
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, my producer Rich would be like, ah, man,

871
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: do that pass again. That wasn't right, And I was like,

872
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 1: nah man, Like you know, accidental tourist. You know that's

873
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: hip hop. He's like, nah man, like we ain't doing

874
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: no woo shit, like perfect that shit. And you know,

875
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: for the longest I was looking for an excuse to

876
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: just break the rules. A good example was Johnny Taylor

877
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 1: has a break call you think I'd do it, which

878
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: has a break at the beginning to do someone offered

879
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: me beat some breaks and it's so sloppy in the beginning,

880
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: and like that's what I was trying to inch towards

881
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: and for you, especially with the sloppiness of everything, Like

882
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: for me, that just gave me the green light.

883
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: Like because the crazy thing is that for me, I

884
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 3: always know the time right because it's my time. I

885
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 3: remember we was hanging and I had a couple of

886
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 3: chicks with me. One knew me since high school, so

887
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: she knew sin I was fourteen years old, right, And

888
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 3: then some other dudes there and they're trying to show

889
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: off they knew how to play the piano, all.

890
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: Nice and all this ship right, and they got.

891
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 3: They was doing their little R and B sucker ship

892
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 3: I called the sucker shit back then.

893
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: Now I'm cool with.

894
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: It because we make sure all right.

895
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 2: Then I jump on it and I do my ship right.

896
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 3: And yet the chicks felt what I was doing interesting, right,

897
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 3: But then the one chick was like, he has no tempo,

898
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: and the chick that knew be said, no, he's always

899
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 3: been on his own time. Like and when I say that,

900
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: so you listen to Brain the Ruckers, bro I'm hitting

901
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: every snaire on Brain the Ruckers.

902
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, it's like, I feel like there's gunshots and yeah, And.

903
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 3: For me, it's almost like I thought that a sound

904
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 3: time could be changed at any moment based on the pulse.

905
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: You feel me.

906
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: So if I gonna get that's that right.

907
00:46:54,080 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 4: But if I goa uh huh uh, the post is changing,

908
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 4: it's changing the time.

909
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's possible. I could post what the fuck

910
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 3: I want to post and it to change the time.

911
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 3: That's why I'm bringing the Rutgers. When ghost goes one way,

912
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 3: but then in the middle of a sound, it changes,

913
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: in the middle of the bar Ray goes, it changes,

914
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 3: and it doesn't really make this until the hook comes.

915
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 3: And then when that comes on this now it's in

916
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: the groove, but then just goes out.

917
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 5: Of the groove by the time he goes a mother

918
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 5: other than slave Man Boost LOUDI Cruz, I'm fucking up

919
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 5: the MC shoots and break Plumper sample Ship with our stump, right,

920
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 5: he said, since the day he recorded it.

921
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: So every time we perform, he don't want to perform.

922
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 3: He said, Yo, God, I never could catch that time

923
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: you put there.

924
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: So the question I have for you is the day

925
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 1: that the Grave Diggers album comes out, Philadelphia, legendary DJ

926
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: cosmik Keev tells me, like, Yo, he predicted that ship

927
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: was going to go gangbusters, like shout out to my

928
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: man g from Jersey who were all heavy, we're promoting

929
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: you guys like they wanted him to play. Of course,

930
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and all that stuff.

931
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: But why didn't you guys release bang your Head as

932
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: a single, because that Ship, to me was just like

933
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: that was the single that could have brought you guys

934
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: over the top.

935
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 3: Jason, you said that because at the time, right, bio

936
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: has it. Yes, Okay, so I think bio Hazard was

937
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 3: really bubbling right.

938
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: In fact, the Grave Niggas was doing days.

939
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: With bio has its just to let you know, Okay,

940
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 3: I think that in a way it was it was

941
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 3: it was the rock energy that scared the label right

942
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 3: when you got because you got you got fru Klon,

943
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 3: Prince Rakin or the Rustler at the time, you got it, you.

944
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: Got Prince Paul, right, you got hip hop. They called

945
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 2: it a super group at the time, right, mm hmm.

946
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 2: And also I.

947
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 3: Think that the label wanted to chase the wool, right,

948
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 3: and so I just think it was a miscalculation because

949
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 3: they was they were trying to chase the wolf. So

950
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: with the sample nowhere to run through suicide that we're

951
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 3: chasing that where bang your head is almost you know

952
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 3: what the fuck that is.

953
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: And it's it's just it's just it was just a

954
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: ball of energy.

955
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:37,959
Speaker 3: But I do think that the Grave Diggers were such

956
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 3: an awkward it was.

957
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 2: An awkward style of hip hop.

958
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't it was almost like it wasn't

959
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 3: a lot of MC's going there like that, you know

960
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 3: what I mean.

961
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: I mean they had they called.

962
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 3: It horror.

963
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: We felt that that song would have brought that to

964
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: the legitimate Yes, like we heard about horrorcore, but we

965
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: felt that that song is gonna be the the flag

966
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: planning song that really would have set that off, and

967
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: it never came to fruition. And I always wanted to

968
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: know why because I used to play that relentlessly. That

969
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: used to be my first record when I would DJ, and.

970
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: Able didn't get with that.

971
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: You know, it's so crazy, though, I would say one thing,

972
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 3: it never failed at a live show when we got

973
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 3: Also when we did that shit, it was fucking I

974
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 3: even remember evident from Bile Hazard like want to come join,

975
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 3: and I like the energy that that shit used to

976
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 3: bring was crazy.

977
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: I have a theory about when people upgrade their like

978
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: instruments or whatever, what exactly happened as far as the

979
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: flooding is concerned of your original studio and is that

980
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: sort of why the chapter ends with I mean, I

981
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: guess you could say look with swords or not, you know,

982
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: because the sound of Wu Tang Forever was night and day.

983
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: It was more polish sound. But what what what exactly

984
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: happened flooding lines that stopped you from using that particular equipment.

985
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: First of all, tribbling links, liquid swords, maybe two or

986
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 3: three tracks off of Iron Man because after that, because

987
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: what happened was once I did the child, I didn't

988
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 3: want to go back to the studio no more.

989
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: I don't like how the cow came out.

990
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why why even now. No, I didn't

991
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 3: like how it came out. I mean I loved it,

992
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: but I didn't. I mean I liked it, but I

993
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 3: didn't love them put it that way because I had

994
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: an engineer that tried to go by the book.

995
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: So I had to fight to get the sound to

996
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 2: it that way.

997
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: Right.

998
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 2: If you listen to I get my thing an action.

999
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: If you just turned down one fatal bro, the whole

1000
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 3: beat falls apart. But you gotta know that, and the

1001
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 3: engineer don't know that. And and remember back in those days,

1002
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 3: we're not really touching the boards.

1003
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: As we touch the boards, fight to.

1004
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: Touch the board. You got to send that dude to

1005
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: the store or something, you know what I mean.

1006
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 3: But by the time we got to I got your back, right.

1007
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 3: And then you go to Cuba Links and Liquord Sports.

1008
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 3: It's my own studio, it's my house. I got every

1009
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: compressor already preset to their voices. I checked the compressor.

1010
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: I knew that I wanted his voice like that, right,

1011
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 3: Everybody got their own settings the two inches here the speakers,

1012
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 3: I had k kades, but I have the bigger ones,

1013
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,919
Speaker 3: which was pretty with place but made sense back then, right,

1014
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 3: And when the flood came, it wiped it out right,

1015
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 3: the two witch machine, the boards still lived, the hardware,

1016
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 3: all that felt, you know what I mean. And then

1017
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 3: I had to finish iron Man inside the studio which

1018
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 3: is called Mystic Studios. So now I'm in the studio

1019
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: again and I'm dealing with.

1020
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 2: The studio fucking uh chamber.

1021
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 3: So some of the iron Man you got some original sound,

1022
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 3: well some of it you can see like, okay, it's changing.

1023
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 3: And then by the time you get to wuchank forever.

1024
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: Oh no, we we we we.

1025
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 2: We build a new studio and we recording in la

1026
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 2: at the same time. So now we pain ponding.

1027
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 3: But I would challenge this to you for your ear

1028
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: if you get a chance, and maybe we could talk

1029
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 3: about it next week. Listen to the tap of Donna

1030
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: South of the Border, Okay, right, and let me know,

1031
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: does that remind you of the sound from ninety three,

1032
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: ninety four, ninety five, because to me, that was like

1033
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 3: my last time like setting my parameters up to that,

1034
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Sampling that twenty two point

1035
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: one or seventeen point nine like Chanda my sample bit

1036
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: it was like the last time I did it, and

1037
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: I was.

1038
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 2: Like, man, this this We played it in the office

1039
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 2: for the staff.

1040
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 3: Everybody was like, that's you need to make more of those,

1041
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: Like that's the sound. That's that's unique Wu Tang sound.

1042
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 3: That that that that the world is used to versus.

1043
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: Run, which I said, No, I like run which was

1044
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: run was the was the curse? But run was the curse.

1045
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 3: Well, Sampler, it wasn't the ASR sent you know what

1046
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 3: I mean. I was kind of moving over to Churst well,

1047
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 3: like you said, upgrading my ship.

1048
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, well brother, I appreciate you even let me

1049
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: get this far. God willing, we will continue with our

1050
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: talk with the one and only Risa the average of

1051
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 1: Wu Tang Clan. Thank you very much, brother brother, Thank

1052
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme Closter to

1053
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: buy Amir Quest Love Thompson, Lia Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandell,

1054
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: and Unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are Mayor, Quest Loved, Thompson,

1055
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: Sean che Brian Calhoun, Produced by Brittany Benjamin Cousin Jake

1056
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 1: Payinne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited by Alex Convoy, Produced

1057
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: by iHeart by Noel Brown. Post Club Supreme is a

1058
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit

1059
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1060
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.