Speaker 1: Celebrity Book Club. Will Stephen and Lily please step forward.
Speaker 1: Two beautiful girls stand before me, but only one of
Speaker 1: you will continue on in the hopes of becoming America's
Speaker 1: next top model in the winner of a one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars contract with iHeartRadio on the Outspoken Network. Lily,
Speaker 1: when you came into this competition, no one thought you
Speaker 1: could hack it. You were a mess, You were slurring
Speaker 1: your speech, you seemed tired. One of the judges thought
Speaker 1: you were high. You could barely put one foot in
Speaker 1: front of the other, and you didn't even know how
Speaker 1: to tie your shoes. But week after week you've improved
Speaker 1: or what this competition is all about. You've showed grit, determination,
Speaker 1: and a chameleon like quality to make us laugh in
Speaker 1: various different disguises, like your Charlie Chaplin photo shoot, which
Speaker 1: blew our socks off. But there's one thing you still
Speaker 1: don't have, and that's good teeth. And your refusal to
Speaker 1: get adult braces suggests to the judges that maybe you
Speaker 1: don't have what it takes to go far in the
Speaker 1: real world of modeling.
Speaker 2: Tyra, thank you so much for this chance. Today I
Speaker 2: double knotted my shoelaces in Midtown Manhattan, and I was
Speaker 2: thinking I couldn't have done this six weeks ago. I'm
Speaker 2: hearing so many voices in my head, and sometimes I'm
Speaker 2: told by the girls or Miss Jay that I shouldn't
Speaker 2: get braces because then I'll never get the contract with
Speaker 2: Elle Lily.
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing is excuses. Thank you for saying your piece, Stephen.
Speaker 1: You have everything Lily doesn't, but she has everything you need.
Speaker 1: You came into this competition brilliant, a strong face, a
Speaker 1: severe jawline, wide hips. Every week. The judges have been
Speaker 1: wowed by your consistency. But there's one thing you don't have,
Speaker 1: and that's a normal hairline. We've tried to get you
Speaker 1: to wear wigs and you refuse. So why is your
Speaker 1: inability to change so prominent? And why are you refusing
Speaker 1: to do what you need to do to make it
Speaker 1: in this business?
Speaker 2: Tyra, don't get it. When I was a little boy
Speaker 2: on the school yard, a girl came up to me
Speaker 2: and she pulled my hair and she pulled a patch out,
Speaker 2: and she said, you'll never make it in this town ever,
Speaker 2: And that day I promised myself I would make it. Bald,
Speaker 2: I don't care what you say, Taira. I'm gonna make
Speaker 2: it bald.
Speaker 1: Watch me. The judges have made our decision. America's next
Speaker 1: top Model is Lily.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'll do whatever. I'll take out
Speaker 2: my people, I'll get danchers.
Speaker 1: Remember this moment. You earned it. This is your moment hip.
Speaker 2: Obecca's that next top model. Oh my god, Oh my god, Stephen,
Speaker 2: you're gonna get a contract for all. I'm sure cut.
Speaker 1: Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.
Speaker 1: You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and you've got books
Speaker 1: and a bottle of wine to kill.
Speaker 2: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
Speaker 1: I'm shook. It's memoir, it's martinis.
Speaker 2: Celebrity Poop Club. Read it while it's hot.
Speaker 1: Celebrity poop Club, tell your secrets.
Speaker 2: We won't talk celebrity books.
Speaker 1: No boys are a loud celet book, say it loud
Speaker 1: and pound. Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 2: Buzz me in. I brought the queer voe.
Speaker 1: Hey, my friend, Merry holiday season? Am I right?
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Sorry, put down the eggnog. Wait. I
Speaker 2: have to tell you about this completely insane I heard
Speaker 2: on lay it on me radio that was just like, ugh,
Speaker 2: is your aunt over the holidays? Like on your nerves?
Speaker 2: Like and then it's like an impression of an aunt
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh god, Susie has had so much
Speaker 2: eggnog and she's like, so, who are you dating? And
Speaker 2: then like the voiceover is like, want to escape from
Speaker 2: like this dumbass aunt who keeps like asking you, like
Speaker 2: why you're so single? Come to Boston. It was an
Speaker 2: ad for Boston, an ad for Boston, and Boston is
Speaker 2: the place where you escape aunts, which is just so
Speaker 2: crazy because boss is aunt. It's like it is a
Speaker 2: city of aunts.
Speaker 1: That's so insane.
Speaker 2: And it was like come like ice skate on the
Speaker 2: frog pond, like shop on Newberry Boston.
Speaker 1: And like the idea is that like instead of like
Speaker 1: booking travel to go spend the holidays with your family,
Speaker 1: you would book like a solo trip.
Speaker 2: Single strip to Boston on Christmas Day.
Speaker 1: Boston's a great place, you know, as a woman traveling alone,
Speaker 1: safety is one of my top concerns, and Boston is
Speaker 1: such a safe place I mean for women to be.
Speaker 2: It would be such a good place if you were
Speaker 2: like a single lawyer to take the Amtrak and be like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to get a room just
Speaker 2: for myself on Boxing Day, you know, at the Copley Hotel.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because I met my boyfriend when he
Speaker 1: went to Boston alone over Thanksgiving, see, and you're.
Speaker 2: A single woman. He literally was like getting way to
Speaker 2: the big city of Boston.
Speaker 3: And you were being like he was doing major and
Speaker 3: you were being like local Boston tree keeping girl or whatever.
Speaker 3: So yeah, honestly, go to Boston, like whether it's for
Speaker 3: the holidays or like kind of that.
Speaker 2: After that week between.
Speaker 1: A KA Global Purgatory.
Speaker 2: Boston dot com, check it out, hit us up for Rex.
Speaker 1: There's so many things happening in Boston now.
Speaker 2: There really are. I mean, it is beautiful around the holidays, Like,
Speaker 2: let's just be real, if it's pray for snow. I
Speaker 2: remember as a kid hoping for snow so I could
Speaker 2: see Santa's little footsteps on my porch of my condo
Speaker 2: was like so small, I had like a little deck.
Speaker 1: You didn't think he was doing chimney stuff.
Speaker 2: Well we didn't have a chimney, so I was like, well,
Speaker 2: of course for condos and lands on your very small
Speaker 2: porch and slide the sliding door moves aside the kind
Speaker 2: of copper planter and an African mask obviously, and then
Speaker 2: one year there were like little kind of footprints and
Speaker 2: I was like, uh, proof, dear done.
Speaker 1: Oh like like some wildlife I've been there, and you're
Speaker 1: like gotta be the brain bear or my parents like
Speaker 1: imprinted it and they should have kind of like jostled
Speaker 1: the mask on the walls.
Speaker 2: Things are going crazy there, like, oh.
Speaker 1: Gosh, my parents was the thing where they like they
Speaker 1: left the like you know, two bites in the cookie
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Classic did you guys do carets too?
Speaker 1: I do remember doing carrots at one point. Real was
Speaker 1: that like a trend in Boston and like ninety seven
Speaker 1: for us all to be.
Speaker 2: Trends in nineteen No, the carrots are for the reindeer.
Speaker 1: Oh that's what it was.
Speaker 2: It's not like slim down Santa and so like slim fast.
Speaker 1: Right now now I'm remember and it was like nilla
Speaker 1: wafers and carrots and like glass of milk.
Speaker 2: But I do love that instead of a glass of milk,
Speaker 2: it's a glass of slim fast for Santa. Oh. In
Speaker 2: these days, I'm sure Santa is having a collagen Smoothie arowon.
Speaker 1: Santa Snatched Mama. Okay, she's looking good, making a new
Speaker 1: notch in that belt.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Ozam to the GOLs.
Speaker 1: Missus Claus is just like wait, I like you fat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, oh, you're leaving me behind.
Speaker 1: No, he's like more creating.
Speaker 2: She's right, she's alop and he's so like protein pro Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's like making gains and like lifting so many like
Speaker 2: wooden toys and like he's like, oh, I'm only eating
Speaker 2: I guess he wouldn't eat venison, because that's means he
Speaker 2: would be eating.
Speaker 1: I'm reindeer. Some of them are for play and some
Speaker 1: of them are for work, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Work and play? Yeah, work hard, play harder, eat venison.
Speaker 2: You can't play more with your reindeer speak speaking of
Speaker 2: honestly looking snatched and also traditions changing. Yes, today we're
Speaker 2: doing a book that I mean, we've done obviously fiction before.
Speaker 1: This is maybe the most adult fiction we've done, although
Speaker 1: that's really debatable. It feels like it's a children's book.
Speaker 2: We've done children's but when we did Millie Bobby Brown's
Speaker 2: historical novel, have we done a self published Actually it
Speaker 2: was by word I think that's a site where you
Speaker 2: do self publish, not.
Speaker 1: To throw stove, literally like blog spot.
Speaker 2: I think word you dot com.
Speaker 1: It's Wordy with two ease. Yeah. Yeah, it's giving him
Speaker 1: self kind of thought. He had a meeting with like
Speaker 1: the Wordy exact and they were like.
Speaker 2: No, you're gonna be really taking care of this independent publisher.
Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised that this wouldn't have gotten at least
Speaker 1: like some imprint of Harper to come on, it's literally famous.
Speaker 1: It's a tell all right.
Speaker 2: Some kind of like pop culture imprint Samon Schuster, Harper.
Speaker 1: Random Gallery Books, Hello anyone. Yeah, so it's basically it
Speaker 1: is a tell all. It is fiction, but it's very
Speaker 1: like the names have insightly changed and it is extremely
Speaker 1: inspired by this person's real life experience.
Speaker 2: Suddenly thinly veiled novel. And when I say the names
Speaker 2: have been changed.
Speaker 1: They've barely been changed.
Speaker 2: Of course, we are talking about.
Speaker 1: You know him as mister J. Native director of America
Speaker 1: Sex Top Model Mister J.
Speaker 2: Is full name J.
Speaker 1: Men Uel and his book. This is the title of
Speaker 1: the book and it's.
Speaker 2: In top Model font.
Speaker 1: The Wig, the Bitch and the meltdown, the wig the bitch,
Speaker 1: and the meltdown sorry, and the meltwn like lion the
Speaker 1: witch in the world.
Speaker 2: I guess I got excited. Okay for one second, you're
Speaker 2: actually being so Keisha right now.
Speaker 1: So this book is all about a young, sexy, biracial
Speaker 1: adoptee named Pablo Michaels who lives in a tiny apartment
Speaker 1: in Midtown and gets whisked away at Mercedes Benz Fashion
Speaker 1: Week whist Away.
Speaker 2: So Pablo works as a Michael Course fashion producer and
Speaker 2: guts whist away by supermodel Keisha Cash, known for her
Speaker 2: modeling in a little catalog called Veronica's Privates.
Speaker 1: And he keeps just being like, yeah, she was thirty
Speaker 1: two and she was a groundbreaking black model in the
Speaker 1: nineties and she is a little bit bigger now and
Speaker 1: it's just like every other page and being like.
Speaker 2: She was downing ribs, she does rips. So this book
Speaker 2: is it's madness, how thinly veiled it is.
Speaker 1: What's crazy about this book, though, is it takes place
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty basically, and America sexub model exists in
Speaker 1: this universe.
Speaker 2: That was the craziest reveal where basically like when Keisha
Speaker 2: Cash pitches to Pablo that they should have a show
Speaker 2: called Model Muse.
Speaker 1: He's like, Babe, that's just an America sext some model. She's like, no,
Speaker 1: this time it's going to be different.
Speaker 2: It's going to be totally different. And in this kind
Speaker 2: of crazy universe, it's revealed that Pablo has a mentor
Speaker 2: and his mentor is j Manuel.
Speaker 1: Like later book, it just gets so mad and there's
Speaker 1: all these seeds where it's like him being like, ugh,
Speaker 1: j Manuel was like so sexy. He was the hottest mentor.
Speaker 1: Like I love my mentor.
Speaker 2: Let's break down. I feel like, break down the characters
Speaker 2: and what their names are, just.
Speaker 1: To Yeah, there's there's a Janice Dickinson known as Sasha,
Speaker 1: Sasha Berenson, Jane Sickens and Sasha Baronson, and Sasha Benson
Speaker 1: is always drunk because they have a bottle of Chardonnay
Speaker 1: before every shooting that it's like falling asleep and they're
Speaker 1: pumping adderall on her.
Speaker 2: So they're always like crushing up addall into diet coke
Speaker 2: and giving it to her.
Speaker 1: Listen, this book is funny and I pore through it.
Speaker 1: It does feel like a book written for twelve year
Speaker 1: olds basically, but like it also reads an adult novel.
Speaker 2: It reads like an amazing crazy fan fiction you stumble
Speaker 2: upon and you're like, oh my god, this is hilarious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it is fan fiction. It's basically fan fiction.
Speaker 2: So Sasha Benson at the top, I'm a little mad
Speaker 2: he doesn't give honestly, the alcoholic Sasha I felt enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she needed more sassy fun lines.
Speaker 2: He just makes her like an alcoholic who always has
Speaker 2: like a pulland spring bottle full of lot.
Speaker 1: He CA's probably reflected with the fact that j Manuel
Speaker 1: and Jenna Sickinson maybe just didn't interact that much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because she was like there for judging and he was
Speaker 1: obviously like hanging out.
Speaker 2: With miss Miss Things.
Speaker 1: So Miss Thing is the runway coach Jay Alexander, Miss
Speaker 1: Jay and Miss Thing and him have this like rivalry
Speaker 1: over the course of the show and ups and downs.
Speaker 2: You know, it starts out and Pablo is actually very
Speaker 2: mean about Miss Thing and it is always like, uh,
Speaker 2: like Miss Thing is like ugly and Miss Thing just
Speaker 2: like it's all about herself and is always like making
Speaker 2: quips and like wanting the camera towards her. And then
Speaker 2: towards the middle of the book is like mad at
Speaker 2: the antm editors for like, oh sorry, the model muse
Speaker 2: editors for cutting out all of Miss things amazing lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which she does kind of like suggest is more
Speaker 1: tyra akakish cash just being incredibly narcissistic and wanting to
Speaker 1: make herself the start of the show and like reduce
Speaker 1: everyone else's personality and make sure that they're not like
Speaker 1: to now the focus.
Speaker 2: Because she's the focus. And then there is Mason Ah,
Speaker 2: a British.
Speaker 1: Photographer British photographer but a fashionhtographer who's very sexy but
Speaker 1: very naughty.
Speaker 2: And in this book is a closeted bisexual. Yeah. Clearly
Speaker 2: I think mister Jay is fantasy.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think a lot of this book I think
Speaker 2: is true.
Speaker 1: You can tell what's fan and you can tell and
Speaker 1: what's the nonfiction and we'll get into that. So I
Speaker 1: love when Miss Thing is introduced again, who is a
Speaker 1: run cipher for Miss j Alexander Pablo knew instantly why
Speaker 1: Miss Thing was chosen controversy. He was known for his
Speaker 1: Twitter account profile and then he like italicizes what the
Speaker 1: profile is for all my lgbt Q X y Z,
Speaker 1: rainbow colored friends of the alphabet. I am not bisexual, transsexual,
Speaker 1: or a transvestite. I'm a gay man who parades around
Speaker 1: a women's cature to confuse white straight America. He was
Speaker 1: an appropriate, flamboyant, wicked, witty, and had been a runway
Speaker 1: coach since the dawn of time. He was going to
Speaker 1: be a handful also just calling him old.
Speaker 2: No, it'd be like since the dawn of so.
Speaker 1: Older than dirt. She's like, and he's not a woke activist, okay,
Speaker 1: And that's getting America ruffled.
Speaker 2: Because it's twenty twenty two and everyone's woke.
Speaker 1: This is the part of the book where it's just
Speaker 1: every time he's like trying to make it betweeny twenty
Speaker 1: two and not two thousand and nine, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit like why did we.
Speaker 2: Why did we do this? Because then all the references
Speaker 2: are just like Pablo was so mad that he didn't
Speaker 2: get to go to the after party at tow and
Speaker 2: Keisha made I made him come back with her to
Speaker 2: her loft at three sixty five broom and have Hoggin
Speaker 2: DAWs and Shuman like from Joe's Shang.
Speaker 1: I'm just like so it is two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: We're going to too, We're going to tell.
Speaker 2: And then it's finally when Pablo gets a chance to
Speaker 2: go to a rap party after season one of Model
Speaker 2: Muse they go to Budicuin.
Speaker 1: No, it's insane, Buddha Kan like what. But I guess
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been able to insert himself as a
Speaker 1: character in the book if.
Speaker 2: It was, because he has to make it and met
Speaker 2: and make himself like a young, like impressionable Pablo, but
Speaker 2: also show to the world through this fan fiction that
Speaker 2: he's actually so wise and it's fiction. And then the
Speaker 2: last person that you may not think about but you've
Speaker 2: seen on the credits of Top Model is ken Mock,
Speaker 2: who is the executive producer of Top Model is Jovang.
Speaker 1: Jouvong, who's portrayed as like this angry Asian male executive.
Speaker 2: He always calls him the Korean which the so sex
Speaker 2: and the City and actually so two thousand and one
Speaker 2: of him and two sold and his storyline is that
Speaker 2: he's this just like balls out producer who produced a
Speaker 2: cops show called Officers with a Z.
Speaker 1: Did Ken Buck actually produce Cops?
Speaker 2: I looked up his IMDb and he did it, but
Speaker 2: he did produce the amazing show The mussy Cat Doll
Speaker 2: Search for the Next pussy Cat Doll, So he's actually
Speaker 2: more like Top Model Pussycat Doll other reality shows, but
Speaker 2: he didn't produce Cops.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the one part of this novel that's not
Speaker 1: just like basically a direct like retread of Jamie Manuel's
Speaker 1: Top Model days and like him basically saying how much
Speaker 1: of a huge bitch Tyra is every other page is
Speaker 1: there's this like plotline I'm putting in quotes the word
Speaker 1: plot line of like how Tyra's mom was arrested so
Speaker 1: good on this Cops Stoke called officers with the z
Speaker 1: that Joe Vong was producing and but it turns out
Speaker 1: she was wrongfully arrested. And then she like sends her
Speaker 1: own like ransom note with some blood to ty to exonerate.
Speaker 2: Her and is basically begging Tyra to like use this
Speaker 2: blood to like free her.
Speaker 1: But then it's later revealed that Tyra Iki Kisha Kash
Speaker 1: wants her mother to stay rotting in jail.
Speaker 2: So she tells like one of the producers to throw
Speaker 2: out the blood that would exonerate her. Oh and by
Speaker 2: the way. Her mother's crime is that she was a
Speaker 2: photographer at a morgue who stole jewels from the morgue.
Speaker 2: I mean, give it up for fiction with that one.
Speaker 4: Okay, this is so like the book I would write
Speaker 4: if I were nine, but like Tyra's mom, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean, Like you're a genius nine year old
Speaker 2: if you're being like, what's a job, what's a weird job?
Speaker 2: But also being like pink panther jewels. And then there's
Speaker 2: this whole scene where like Jay, I don't want to
Speaker 2: jump ahead, but basically like j becomes Slash Pablo becomes
Speaker 2: an investigative reporter and figures out Tisha Kasha's mom's ransom
Speaker 2: note by YouTube discovering what anagrams are.
Speaker 1: But he does it. I mean again, the book is
Speaker 1: kind of good, like, yeah, he kills aids the show Unreal,
Speaker 1: which I love where he's trying to figure out this
Speaker 1: ransom note because he knows if he can bring this
Speaker 1: kind of victory to Kisha Cash aka Tyra, then she'll
Speaker 1: like show up on set. Because one of the main
Speaker 1: complexes of the book is that Tyra's this huge fucking
Speaker 1: bitch who's like always four hours, like to set and
Speaker 1: would rather be eating ribs at this time spare ribbery
Speaker 1: than coming to set at Silver Cup Studios and Queens.
Speaker 2: Or eating like the first time that Jay Sorry, Pablo
Speaker 2: and Keisha become friends. Kisha invites Pablo over to her laws.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, this part's of the same. Okay, Keisha squilled
Speaker 1: with delight. I love rags to riches stories. This calls
Speaker 1: for ice cream and more champagne. She pointed to the
Speaker 1: double door subsuro refrigerator, got up and opened the unit's doors.
Speaker 1: Her fridge was bigger than the bathroom in his apartment. Hell,
Speaker 1: it was bigger than his bedroom, and there was enough
Speaker 1: room to sleep in it. There was nothing but champagne
Speaker 1: and leftovers on one side and quarts of ice cream
Speaker 1: on the other. My con marie consultant organized it by flavor.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's where he's putting the twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Of it all in. Yes, she was now behind and
Speaker 1: picking over his shoulders. Pablo couldn't believe Keisha had a
Speaker 1: certified tidying specialist organizing her frozen treats. It's also like
Speaker 1: looking up the saurus ice cream frozen treats. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a rainbow of flavors, coconut, blue moon, green tea, mint, lemon, cello, tangerine, raspberry,
Speaker 1: red bean, cookie dough, chocolate, caramel, latte, coffee. Pablo never
Speaker 1: seen so much ice cream in one person's freezer. What's
Speaker 1: your poison? She giggled like a little girl pulling at
Speaker 1: a tub of Hoganda's dull shade of leche and headed back, just.
Speaker 2: Like this fat Like it's like we're on page ten here,
Speaker 2: so it's be like, do know, tires a fat fucking
Speaker 2: bitch is basically what he's trying to let you know. Oh,
Speaker 2: and if I may just add in this part where
Speaker 2: like she fires her assistant and is like, Pablo, you
Speaker 2: need to get me Chinese food. But I'm such a
Speaker 2: diva celebrity that I have no idea what like Chinese
Speaker 2: I love? And this is like how like Jay places
Speaker 2: us in modern times with deft deficiency. Pablo type the
Speaker 2: word Chinese into his food delivery app and began to
Speaker 2: read out the list of names of restaurants in the area.
Speaker 2: Jade Garden, the Big Wong, Low Hung Cock, Omg, they're
Speaker 2: next to each other. If somebody's name Joe's Shang Hai
Speaker 2: on this.
Speaker 1: Was like a weird, like racist, yeah, like joke that's
Speaker 1: just kind of inserted into the writing of being like
Speaker 1: low hung cock as the name of a Chinese restaurant,
Speaker 1: and you're just like, this is random, this is random.
Speaker 2: No, this book is kind of wildly racist gansation people.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I guess because Jay really hates Ken Mack. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's like, no, I'm actually going to go all the way.
Speaker 1: Off the mock definitely is one of the other sort
Speaker 1: of greater villains. Well, you know, so I was reading,
Speaker 1: I did a little bit about said research and name reading.
Speaker 1: Do you see like the Variety interview with him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of the only press that really is about
Speaker 1: this book.
Speaker 2: Basically what happened is clearly, you know, I think Jay
Speaker 2: was overworked and felt like he didn't get his.
Speaker 1: Flowers, because what he says in the book is that
Speaker 1: he basically does every single shoot, comes up with the
Speaker 1: concept for every single shoot, and then he's also doing
Speaker 1: all this work, like behind the scene design work, made
Speaker 1: the logo.
Speaker 2: And it was always like I'm in my hell's kitchen apartment.
Speaker 2: I had to come up with all these like decks
Speaker 2: to pitch, like you know, or you know, goes home
Speaker 2: from Top Model and has to you know, come up
Speaker 2: with the ideas for the photo shoots and the hair
Speaker 2: and this and that. But then also we're shown that
Speaker 2: Keisha cast doesn't really give him a good contract in
Speaker 2: the beginning, and Pablo aka J will work for free.
Speaker 2: So in life, Jay was like, I'm gonna quit at
Speaker 2: season nine, and he did, and he did, and then
Speaker 2: Tyro was so offended that they didn't speak.
Speaker 1: And then there's this quote where he was like, We've
Speaker 1: sent a few emails and that's it.
Speaker 2: There was something that was like Tyro like isn't happy
Speaker 2: about his book, but it was also kind of like
Speaker 2: a fake quote. It's like, I don't even know if
Speaker 2: this book reached Tyra.
Speaker 1: I'm so confused why it didn't because I feel like
Speaker 1: maybe it was just like the moment he decided Toself published.
Speaker 1: It's like I feel like if it came out now,
Speaker 1: it'll be better because I'm feeling like everyone's doing a
Speaker 1: Top Model rewatch. Maybe it's just me and like, no,
Speaker 1: no people.
Speaker 2: I know, like since it got on like Hulu, I
Speaker 2: feel like people started like rewatching, Yes, But I do
Speaker 2: feel like right now there's always like I think, just
Speaker 2: like different gays that start watching it every year. Yes, sorry,
Speaker 2: it's a cycle.
Speaker 1: It's literally a cycle, and like new generations are discovering
Speaker 1: the magic, the aggon the ecstasy of Top Model.
Speaker 2: And you know, so of course, you know, when the
Speaker 2: gen z started watching it, they got upset about a
Speaker 2: few episodes like well, this actually didn't even happen on
Speaker 2: Top Model, but the best episode ever of the tyber
Speaker 2: Banks Show, and she pretended to be homeless.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and yeah, and they've pulled the race swapping
Speaker 1: episode they've pulled. Is there any others that they've pulled?
Speaker 2: And peop don't think so, but.
Speaker 1: But did they also do that on multiple cycles? Probably anyway,
Speaker 1: But yeah, and then so they're all being like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's so problematic and she's like so abusive to all
Speaker 1: the girls, and of course, and like you know, what
Speaker 1: we see in this book is that like it is
Speaker 1: such like abusive working conditions. But of course that's what
Speaker 1: produced such a.
Speaker 2: Such amazing television. I mean, if we can just go
Speaker 2: back Storry TBT. You called me, I think we were sixteen,
Speaker 2: and you were like, this amazing show just came out
Speaker 2: and you had just watched the first episode, and you
Speaker 2: came over and we rewatched the first episode. Yes, and
Speaker 2: I remember it's just like jaw on the floor. I
Speaker 2: had never seen something like that. I mean was of
Speaker 2: course we've done Jennis Dickinson's book, we've talked about Top Model,
Speaker 2: but I mean the best reality show in the entire world.
Speaker 1: No, it was crazy. It was Manna from Heaven and.
Speaker 2: Survivor had just come out, so it was like early contest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there weren't all the other competition shows yet,
Speaker 1: and like the girls were so real, so.
Speaker 2: Real, and I think like Queer Eye probably had just
Speaker 2: come out, but it was like you were really seeing
Speaker 2: like fags on.
Speaker 1: Evs, like you see mister and missus. J was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry, Like Tyra exploded the world with
Speaker 1: that show, and she absolutely changed the course of human culture.
Speaker 2: Literally she changed humanity.
Speaker 1: And you know, like my friend Eric's I was saying this,
Speaker 1: but like RuPaul.
Speaker 2: Like took everything from Top.
Speaker 1: Everything from Top Model.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's think for your life, what about Like
Speaker 2: remember first season, they have to like swim with sharks,
Speaker 2: they have to dance with cheetahs, like they all have
Speaker 2: to shave their heads like they have to put scales
Speaker 2: on themselves, like they have to like fly off the
Speaker 2: Empire's date thing, just like it's incredible.
Speaker 1: So in this book, there's the scene where they all
Speaker 1: have a different animal and then Adriana faints and Jay
Speaker 1: suggest sorry, Pablo suggests that maybe Adriana's fainting was fake,
Speaker 1: fucking fake, And of course, if we all remember back
Speaker 1: to cycle one, Adrian faints in the like snake episode
Speaker 1: or whatever, Yeah, and perhaps.
Speaker 2: That maybe was fake. And if you guys are an
Speaker 2: up to date with quote unquote Adriana aka Adrian Curry,
Speaker 2: she won Top Model, then she had a show where
Speaker 2: she because she married Greg Brady. Then she left Hollywood
Speaker 2: and became the most back to the land insane trumper.
Speaker 2: Like follow her on Twitter.
Speaker 1: She is so so hilarious and I find because she's
Speaker 1: also always selling like a weird and a and she's
Speaker 1: just an avon lady who like lives in Arizona and
Speaker 1: Montana and has big strong suspects.
Speaker 2: And like the twitch stream all day and are so
Speaker 2: video game because like her whole thing was that, like
Speaker 2: she was from Juliet, Illinois and was like, fucking men,
Speaker 2: I'm a nerd man, wait what did she say?
Speaker 1: Once?
Speaker 2: I remember she was in the cab and she was like, man,
Speaker 2: I just won't go want to go home and listen
Speaker 2: to fucking heavy metal.
Speaker 1: And so like she and Elise were like friends because
Speaker 1: like they were alt.
Speaker 2: Even though Elise was like a kind of person, I
Speaker 2: felt like, I guess I'm still gonna aligne with her
Speaker 2: because like we're both Indie.
Speaker 1: Because like when everyone else is like fully Christian.
Speaker 2: Because then it came down to write Adrian and Shannon.
Speaker 1: Yes, and Alis was number three. But one of the
Speaker 1: kind of main I would say revelations of this book
Speaker 1: is that there's always what he calls a ringer, which
Speaker 1: is a girl who's basically picked by Tyra to win
Speaker 1: each cycle, like very early on, basically at the beginning
Speaker 1: of each cycle, and that she is just pulling the
Speaker 1: strings to make sure that that girl ends up in
Speaker 1: the final two and then wins, and all the other
Speaker 1: judge's critiques are just kind of like superfluous, and there's
Speaker 1: basically someone who's supposed to win. And look back at
Speaker 1: the seasons and I'm sorry, it makes so much sense,
Speaker 1: like there are some seasons where we all know, wait,
Speaker 1: you know that there was someone who like got kicked off.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's often the girl I think who
Speaker 1: like should have won gets kicked off.
Speaker 2: Like four six yeah, and everyone's like wait what, But
Speaker 2: she was like the most she was.
Speaker 1: The most high fashion. Her photos were the best, and
Speaker 1: like somehow like she's gone.
Speaker 2: There was this whole thing that like, I feel like
Speaker 2: top model like brought to just us the public. Tyra
Speaker 2: was like you're either high fashion or not high fashion.
Speaker 2: And there were so many girls that came in and
Speaker 2: were catalog I know, and it gave us a language
Speaker 2: to like define sorry, women's bodies.
Speaker 1: That we need that we does really need to talk
Speaker 1: about women and your high.
Speaker 2: Fashion in your catalog. And like at least like all
Speaker 2: these girls who were catalog, like were so confused by
Speaker 2: these high fashion girlies who are a little more fucked up,
Speaker 2: looking like.
Speaker 1: Winning more like angular and weird, and.
Speaker 2: Like one girl in this is like she's gonna pick
Speaker 2: you because you're ugly or something.
Speaker 1: Okay, just going through the seasons if we may, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's go through the seasons. Because do you think should
Speaker 1: have won the first season? Elise?
Speaker 2: I mean put that on my gravestone. Alise should have
Speaker 2: won the first season.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about season two? Do you think it should
Speaker 1: have been because that was Mercedes? No Joanna one?
Speaker 2: Oh, I agree, I think Johanna should have won. I
Speaker 2: like always had a crush on her.
Speaker 1: Because Janna Stickinson thought Mercedes should have won.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just thought Joanna did have such a kind
Speaker 2: of high fashion face.
Speaker 1: I know, but looking at her now and like how
Speaker 1: basic in like Australian she's gotten, I'm a little just
Speaker 1: like maybe it shouldn't have been her. Okay, I kind
Speaker 1: of think it should have been April, the Asian girl
Speaker 1: with really chic with the bangs.
Speaker 2: Yes, with the ban she was really chic, she was
Speaker 2: really fab.
Speaker 1: Okay, I kind of think it should have been her.
Speaker 1: Season three, Oh that was Eva.
Speaker 2: I mean I love Eva and she's kind of happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, should have been yeah, yeah, no question And yeah
Speaker 1: went on to become the most successful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's been in like ten seasons of Chicago Fire.
Speaker 1: And we celebrate, Yeah.
Speaker 2: We celebrate her. I mean never forget yeah, yah saying
Speaker 2: respect in Portuguese respect.
Speaker 1: Do you remember Jenna from like season seven or eight
Speaker 1: or nine or something whatever it was? There was the
Speaker 1: one that Celicia won.
Speaker 2: I don't remember.
Speaker 1: Jenna had an incredible portfolio. Her face was so high fashion.
Speaker 1: Jenna du set look her up. She was incredible. And
Speaker 1: then Celicia, it turns out, had known Tyra previously and
Speaker 1: done like Tyra's modeling girls or whatever.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this girl was such a random was
Speaker 2: like no, no, Jenna.
Speaker 1: And it's set and Jenna do set like totally slay own.
Speaker 2: Oh notes, but I wonder where she is now and
Speaker 2: she was five eleven, she.
Speaker 1: Like couldn't have been more model, And it's like, this
Speaker 1: is why I think j Manuel's revelation that there's a
Speaker 1: ringer each season was completely correct.
Speaker 2: So one of like the big plot points in this
Speaker 2: book is basically kind of a fictionalized version of though
Speaker 2: we were all rooting for you scene and let's all
Speaker 2: go to our pages.
Speaker 1: Oka. Wait, so in this version, instead of Tiffany or Brittany,
Speaker 1: Tiffany this is her name in the real and the
Speaker 1: real show. So instead it's this Irish codet with long
Speaker 1: red hair that Tyra forced to cut the hair so
Speaker 1: she could not win so she would look bad and
Speaker 1: like shaved her head like later in the season.
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, like I think that's what Alta
Speaker 2: was so insane about NTM like it just like made
Speaker 2: girls do these crazy things. And even though Jay Pablo
Speaker 2: is shaking his head on set being like, they're not
Speaker 2: actually gonna shave her beautiful red hair.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait and you do. You be Keisha and I'll
Speaker 1: be Nicole with an h because she's Irish.
Speaker 2: Nicole, I challenge you with your new cash branded look,
Speaker 2: but by the disturbed expression on your face, I don't
Speaker 2: think you handled it well. Nicole smiled and interrupted the star.
Speaker 1: Actually, I'm extremely proud to rock my bald head.
Speaker 2: Because she paused for a moment swallowed me.
Speaker 1: Mum fought a long and painful battle with breast cancer.
Speaker 2: Droplets of tears formed along her lower lash line.
Speaker 1: Listening to what Youja said reminded me of a true
Speaker 1: inner strength and integrity that my mother instilled in me.
Speaker 2: Keisha tried to cut the teared medal off. Oh that's sweet,
Speaker 2: and Nicole cut a second time.
Speaker 1: Having my long red hair shaved off gives me a
Speaker 1: far more noble cause than your TV eighteings. Bald is
Speaker 1: beautiful will be my new identifier, my brand. So I
Speaker 1: thank you for freeing me from wanting to model myself
Speaker 1: after you.
Speaker 2: Nicole's smile was radiant, victorious, lethal. Pablo's body levitated into
Speaker 2: the air. The judges, everyone, even Joe Vong was gobsmacked.
Speaker 2: No one could believe that a model contestant was actually
Speaker 2: standing up to Keisha and calling her out on camera.
Speaker 2: It was a bit like watching this giant cyclone building
Speaker 2: on stage. There was a reason her brother used to
Speaker 2: call her column. Keisha's eyes bugged so far off her
Speaker 2: head that she looked like she was about to blow
Speaker 2: her lip. Literally.
Speaker 1: I loved him just being like such a crazy bitch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's always There's a reason Tyr is like such a
Speaker 1: fucking nasty, disgusting.
Speaker 2: Even her brother thinks she's a swamp, ugly bitch.
Speaker 1: Her bug eyes. Okay, I'll be the narrator now over
Speaker 1: the headsets, Pablo could hear the low pitched rumble of
Speaker 1: Keisha's don't fuck with me, demonic possession voice.
Speaker 2: Do you know what? Do you know where I've come from,
Speaker 2: what I've gone through? Oh do you think you are?
Speaker 1: I'm a proud bald woman who's going to raise prest
Speaker 1: comes her awareness and raise money to stop this awful disease.
Speaker 1: Nicole's eyes blazed with defiance. Brilliant Harper accidentally chirped out loud.
Speaker 1: Pablo had never seen Keisha like this, but the scene
Speaker 1: felt like deja vu. This would undoubtedly haunt her for
Speaker 1: the rest of her career. Stop talking, Keisha screamed.
Speaker 2: What I speak to you? You listen? Everybody listen.
Speaker 1: The shouting woke Sasha up. This is Jennis Dickerson. She
Speaker 1: swoveled her head towards mess thing. What's going on?
Speaker 2: Meltdown?
Speaker 1: Alert like a gunslinger. Sasha reached between her recently plumped breath,
Speaker 1: pulled out her iPhone from her comatose vantage point aimed.
Speaker 2: How dare you challenge me? You are nothing before you
Speaker 2: came here. You think you're better than all the other
Speaker 2: girls who felt like hell to get here. You're nothing,
Speaker 2: no one, and you're done. You can leave now, go
Speaker 2: back to Grandma's house and sleep on that radiass mattress
Speaker 2: with your brother Davy and his club foot.
Speaker 1: Well did I? Keisha pointed Nicole's body, with you look
Speaker 1: at this.
Speaker 2: This is gonna last. Men are gonna tire of you
Speaker 2: and find the next hot young thing. Designers will turn
Speaker 2: on you too. Everyone will leave you in the end, everyone.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, be quiet, And that was it. That
Speaker 1: was the scene. You guys all remember.
Speaker 2: We all rooted for you, but Jay makes it not
Speaker 2: even we all rooted for you because there was some
Speaker 2: kindness in Tyra's true freak out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think the thing about Tyra's true freakout
Speaker 1: that it was also more like she's like, I'm supporting
Speaker 1: this young black girl, yes, who's like coming up from poverty,
Speaker 1: and I'm rescuing her, but I also like know what
Speaker 1: it's like and like cause you know, a huge part
Speaker 1: of like Tyra's whole thing was like telling black girls
Speaker 1: that they needed to like you know, I mean, remember
Speaker 1: what's her name who? She was like, you need to
Speaker 1: close your gap, which was actually the worst advice ever
Speaker 1: is her gap? God, because she was kind of thinking
Speaker 1: of it that's like, oh, you're like too black.
Speaker 2: I mean like you need to play the game like
Speaker 2: I did basically and like for Victoria's privacy.
Speaker 1: And was always telling her that her like voice was
Speaker 1: too country and she needed to like be like more
Speaker 1: elocution and like sound more white and then like have
Speaker 1: her teeth like not.
Speaker 2: Because but then here's something on Momimia dot Com Australia
Speaker 2: that says, when Tyra banks, why didn't it contestant?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, what's funny is because then Tyra later realized that.
Speaker 2: Danielle Danielle needed to get the gap fixed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now we have daniel Evans brigs her house
Speaker 1: and we start as a clip of Tyra Beks holding
Speaker 1: her to have her teeth cut, closing and market blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Anyway, so we all remember that, but like
Speaker 1: that was this huge thing. And so what Jamie Nouel
Speaker 1: is kind of he does criticize the Tyra character like
Speaker 1: somewhat for being like, you know, very hypocritical and her
Speaker 1: like kind of savior.
Speaker 2: Role towards young well you know, he does it mostly
Speaker 2: when he basically roast her for writing Model Land.
Speaker 1: Yes, which is Tyra's shitty novel.
Speaker 2: Right, And so there comes upon the book Plagiarize, right,
Speaker 2: where like Tyra is always tip tapping, He's always like,
Speaker 2: she's always two thumbs deep. And then it's like he
Speaker 2: quotes miss Thang is going maybe this beacons she is not.
Speaker 1: But she writes this can't type.
Speaker 2: So she writes this sci fi novel called Planet Fearce
Speaker 2: that's like a one hundred pages and then there's a
Speaker 2: fake review in it where they're like, it's not that
Speaker 2: it's cliche. It's not that it's like stupid, it's that
Speaker 2: like they make it like all the characters are still
Speaker 2: so stereotypical.
Speaker 1: But you know it's interesting because he also has this
Speaker 1: thing where he's seeing that Tyra is like completely cynical
Speaker 1: in her choices of who the ringer is, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I view these girls stories as only useful in so
Speaker 1: far as it like plays with the audience, and so
Speaker 1: like we' of course always want there to be the
Speaker 1: ugly duckling into the swan. We want to like take
Speaker 1: the poor black girl and then like make her like
Speaker 1: successful and palatable. We want to like have the first
Speaker 1: plus size model, but only like because we can say
Speaker 1: we had the first plus size model.
Speaker 2: This is the I feel like, the most kind of
Speaker 2: like scarring part to Tyra's personality. In the fake review
Speaker 2: of Model Land, it says, if there is to be
Speaker 2: any redeeming quality of missus Cash's hulking wreck of literary debut,
Speaker 2: it's that her exidential crisis serves as a wonderful psychological
Speaker 2: case study for explaining theories of internalized racism. Perhaps this
Speaker 2: is the greatest literary contribution Planet Fears could make.
Speaker 1: Wait, this part of is amazing. So you're just reading
Speaker 1: from this on it's there's a fake review and it's
Speaker 1: like a different fond and everything.
Speaker 2: They laid out like a newspaper and everything.
Speaker 1: The writing is much better in this fake review, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting that Jamanuel managed to like get this.
Speaker 2: So when they were mentioning like Octavia Butler and you're
Speaker 2: kind of like, who did he call on to write?
Speaker 1: Now, well, there are references. He does say his favorite
Speaker 1: movie is The Matrix. Like he is he is very.
Speaker 2: Sci fi because he's silver haired, and like the whole
Speaker 2: end of the book is him being like I should
Speaker 2: have taken the blue pill, but the red pill is
Speaker 2: going on antim let's make that meme.
Speaker 1: And like later he says that his dream was to
Speaker 1: be in an ethnically diverse Dan Brown novel. Right, He's
Speaker 1: like he seen together the like ransom note of the
Speaker 1: Blood from the Mom and.
Speaker 2: He actually he mentions Dan Brown a lot because it's
Speaker 2: like the mom in prison has like the is like
Speaker 2: a big mom in prison who helps out Tyger's mom
Speaker 2: and it's like she had an amazing cell. It was
Speaker 2: full of Michael Connolly and Dan Brown novels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so mama likes to read. He's a readist, he's
Speaker 1: a sci fi nerd. So maybe he did write the
Speaker 1: fake review, but that it's interesting that the rest of
Speaker 1: the book is written in so like Babysitters Club, ass
Speaker 1: like there are.
Speaker 2: Some type of ice cream flavors for Red Store Bay
Speaker 2: and like the back of the book. The printing is
Speaker 2: so close to the edge of the.
Speaker 1: Cover getting closer and closer. Okay, I do want to
Speaker 1: talk about the Nigel Barker. It was a sex scene,
Speaker 1: so there is a me too scene in here or.
Speaker 2: And the phrase me too is mentioned so much in
Speaker 2: this book, right, They're always like, we have a me
Speaker 2: too on our hands. Fuck, we have a me too?
Speaker 1: Okay, wait do you want to do yeah? Okay, so
Speaker 1: actually started ninety seven. All right, do you want to
Speaker 1: be Mason Hughes or do you want to be Papla?
Speaker 2: I want to be Mason Hughes. Okay, you should model
Speaker 2: BVDS mate.
Speaker 1: Mason leaned on the door jam and if Pablo had
Speaker 1: no manner, he swear he was checking him out. Are
Speaker 1: all Britt's metrosexuals pretty much? Mason shrode into the room
Speaker 1: and looked around.
Speaker 2: Dion said there was wardrobe to try on. Looks like
Speaker 2: there's more than a wardrobe.
Speaker 1: Pablo felt so much Shyle of a sudden, Why haven't we.
Speaker 2: Talked about doing a test shoot with you yet?
Speaker 1: Mason framed his face, looking through his hands like they
Speaker 1: were camera lens, and made some mock shots of Pablo's
Speaker 1: nearly naked body.
Speaker 2: I'm positive we could create magic together. Wrap that body
Speaker 2: in my seductive.
Speaker 1: Light, corny British humor, extreme close up. Mason moved in close.
Speaker 1: Now Pablo could smell his easily recognizable extreme noir tom
Speaker 1: Ford cologne. He did a little voguing, twisting his shoulders,
Speaker 1: his hips, all in good fun. Suddenly, Mason slapped Pablo's
Speaker 1: nipples like they were frat boys and grabbed his ass. Hey.
Speaker 1: Pablo turned away. Mason raised an eyebrow as if to say,
Speaker 1: you game was he? Mason was handsome, sexy, straight, a
Speaker 1: strange attachment between the president and the pass kipp across
Speaker 1: Pablo's mind. Half of him was still the ugly, awkward kid.
Speaker 1: The biracial boy in a sea of white faces. Don't
Speaker 1: let them get you down, his mother used to tell him,
Speaker 1: while wiping the tears from his eyes. You are more
Speaker 1: than you're outside. They just can't see beyond their own
Speaker 1: skin and narrow minds. You've got to be better than
Speaker 1: him and show them that you're there equal. Papa could
Speaker 1: hear voices if it were yesterday. Like a predator about
Speaker 1: to pounce on his prey, Mason moved closer.
Speaker 2: No one has to know know what.
Speaker 1: Pablo was confused. Mason grabbed Paula by the chest and
Speaker 1: threw him to the floor, and, like a seasoned initiator,
Speaker 1: dropped his own pants all in one quick gesture. What
Speaker 1: are you doing? Pablo pushed back.
Speaker 2: Oh, don't be a cock tees. You've been coming on
Speaker 2: to me for months.
Speaker 1: Mason slammed his hard body on top of him and
Speaker 1: thrust his tongue down Pablo's throat. His saliva tasted sweet,
Speaker 1: but Pablo was still disgusted. I know how your people
Speaker 1: like it in a Boa construction. They rolled across the
Speaker 1: wardrobe and Mason's legs snapped on Paplo's You make.
Speaker 2: Me so hord, yeahs.
Speaker 1: A drust was against Papula's Mason try humpt and heaved
Speaker 1: a hard and ribbed direction across the trapped creative director. Sorry,
Speaker 1: keeping a ribb direction across the trapped creative director.
Speaker 2: Pablo forced himself to relax. Mason eased his grip on him.
Speaker 2: That's how he likes.
Speaker 1: Bubblo punched him, slam, Get off me. He's campered to
Speaker 1: his feet, you arrogant fuck what Mason was a god?
Speaker 1: Paplo grabbed his clothes and bolted for the door. Why
Speaker 1: don't you go on porn hub and jerk off. He
Speaker 1: exited the dressing room and roared behind him, Patriet, go
Speaker 1: fuck yourself.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is okay, this is the wild. This
Speaker 2: is the most fantasy that you know. Jay obviously thought
Speaker 2: Nigel was so hot, and that was the thing of it.
Speaker 2: Nigel was so hot, but he was married.
Speaker 1: I just don't think Nigel ever, I means.
Speaker 2: Think Nigel Boka like came on to Jay and was like,
Speaker 2: don't your people like it like that?
Speaker 1: I knows.
Speaker 2: And then but this scene in the book is just
Speaker 2: a way again to show how like fucked up Tyra
Speaker 2: is because after it, Jay slash Pabla goes over to
Speaker 2: Keisha's house for Mordal Delche and ribs and to watch
Speaker 2: a Judy Garland movie and tells her about it. It is crying,
Speaker 2: and Tyra's basically just like, don't say anything. You should
Speaker 2: be happy he hit on you, Okay, this hot British guy.
Speaker 2: It was like you're not a woman. It's also like yeah,
Speaker 2: and he's trying to be like, oh he said your
Speaker 2: people like and made it like this like oh well
Speaker 2: I'm this like straight guy yeah, and like you're just
Speaker 2: this little fagot.
Speaker 1: But then it becomes this other like running point where
Speaker 1: then Miss Thing keep making fun of Nigel, insinuating that
Speaker 1: his wife is trail. Yeah, this is surgery, not that convinsed.
Speaker 2: And Miss Thing is always just like I've been seeing
Speaker 2: her yoga videos, like she looks like a man. And
Speaker 2: at one point a Miss Thing sends a picture of
Speaker 2: his dick to mister J.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then mister j is like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: put your dick pic like all over social media. Also
Speaker 1: like this other racist joke that Miss Thing is making
Speaker 1: about Nigel's wife, right, is there something you're not telling
Speaker 1: us about? Suck Deep, the model coach interrupted. She don't
Speaker 1: pass to a trained eye like mine, and ps, she
Speaker 1: may want to stay out of harsh daylight hashtag just
Speaker 1: saying he's.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, actually everyone on set was racist.
Speaker 1: Everyone was like really really continue abusive.
Speaker 2: But me, I'm just kind of.
Speaker 1: Anas Dickinson, who seems like the nicest person.
Speaker 2: Right, which is probably true, not.
Speaker 1: Being mean to anyone. No, I do believe that because
Speaker 1: it's like she's harsh in her critiques because she's fabulous and.
Speaker 2: She's an actual model, so she's probably just been like, yah,
Speaker 2: star for yourself and just model ways. But like wasn't
Speaker 2: backstabbing and so crazy and the Tyra way.
Speaker 1: No, because all the rest of them were just like
Speaker 1: literally being evil to each other and like not showing
Speaker 1: up and said, and you're quing completely I'm professional where
Speaker 1: it's like, yes, Jane's maybe passing out because she's wait,
Speaker 1: she's there, there.
Speaker 2: She was there the whole time. Yeah, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, like I love mister J and I
Speaker 2: love Tyra, and mister J like obviously contributed, so no.
Speaker 1: I and I'm sure your top model, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: that his grievance is largely found in the fact that
Speaker 1: he was not like pain enough. He wasn't respected enough
Speaker 1: for the amount of work he was doing to make
Speaker 1: that show good, like on to make it.
Speaker 2: What it was, because I remember like watching that in
Speaker 2: high school and I was like, wait, I want I
Speaker 2: was like whatever, mister Jay's job is, I want it,
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, do I create photo shoots for my
Speaker 2: own damn self?
Speaker 1: Now? Yeah? Period. So in a way, yes, but isn't
Speaker 1: Tyra's insanity why the show is good?
Speaker 2: But then also he kind of is a little bit
Speaker 2: of a hypocrite because when talking about the kind of
Speaker 2: the controversial, unwoke episodes of Top Model, well, all decisions
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we're Ken malk and
Speaker 2: Tyra oh.
Speaker 1: In the variety, Yeah, in the variety, Oh yeah, No,
Speaker 1: he is like suddenly being so like I'm going to
Speaker 1: do it's politically trendy and throw them under the bus.
Speaker 2: But then he's kind of saying like, well, all my
Speaker 2: amazing ideas for the photo shoots were me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so look, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure everyone was a huge bitch except for Janas. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like the nicest person alive Jannis, And I just
Speaker 2: think probably like Tyra did like make j come over
Speaker 2: for ice cream, and made him feel like they were BFFs,
Speaker 2: and then when he left, she was just kind of
Speaker 2: like you're dead to me.
Speaker 1: I remember reading it in every once with her or
Speaker 1: like a profile of her in the Times or something,
Speaker 1: and it was about how she had IBS and it
Speaker 1: was like she had these assistants and like it was
Speaker 1: like she was like kept like sitting up and then
Speaker 1: like sitting down again and was like wearing a big
Speaker 1: white belt and like one of the assistants just goes,
Speaker 1: is it ibs? And like even in the article, I
Speaker 1: was like, Oh this assistants like so scared, like you
Speaker 1: can tell, and like she's.
Speaker 2: I mean the gut rules all yeah, if something ain't right,
Speaker 2: you're gonna lash out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's funny that he didn't give the character
Speaker 1: IBS in this book because maybe he thought that would
Speaker 1: be like too many.
Speaker 2: I think. So he's just gonna make it like, oh,
Speaker 2: look she's downing a rib and I'm gonna send this
Speaker 2: photo of her eating ribs to Miss Things, but then
Speaker 2: goes through Miss Thing's phone in the book and deletes
Speaker 2: the photo to show like, oh look how nice I
Speaker 2: am I delete the photo of like reading the ribs.
Speaker 1: Also just about him putting out fires, yes, constantly, just
Speaker 1: about like how a gay guy has to put out fires.
Speaker 2: And like there's a moment of the book where he
Speaker 2: gets like a like Golden Globes runway job with Heidi
Speaker 2: Klum and finally gets like a better inner ear mic
Speaker 2: where he hears more going on.
Speaker 1: And then well because she refuses to have an inner
Speaker 1: ear mic because she doesn't want all these voices in
Speaker 1: her head control. Yes, but he actually loves like knowing
Speaker 1: what's going.
Speaker 2: On, hearing everything.
Speaker 1: Okay. Also later in the book when he just quotes
Speaker 1: more endowed randomly, No, I mean again, I was like,
Speaker 1: you are an insane Like.
Speaker 2: Well, I wonder, okay, do you think though this part
Speaker 2: is that's very Octavia Butler truth or fiction. The basic
Speaker 2: culmination of this book is that Tyra promises.
Speaker 1: Oh hay, I'm a talk show together, and then she
Speaker 1: gets it just by herself.
Speaker 2: And he hears on the mic her being.
Speaker 1: Like somewhere in between.
Speaker 2: Right where it's like, I don't think it was going
Speaker 2: to be the Tyra and Jay show. Maybe it was
Speaker 2: like he was gonna have a segment or something like that,
Speaker 2: and something happened.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there were conversations where she was not promising anything,
Speaker 1: but he interpreted it as more of a promise than
Speaker 1: it was. And she was like, oh, I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: a talk show, and she didn't say my talk show,
Speaker 1: but she didn't say our talk show, and then he
Speaker 1: interpreted that as like, we're going to have a talk show.
Speaker 1: And then you know, conversations came and maybe.
Speaker 2: She made a joke like oh my god, and like
Speaker 2: you're so great on camera and Evere loves you. Now
Speaker 2: maybe you can do a B and C.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's a will work it all out. But I
Speaker 1: doubt that she promised him the Tyrat And.
Speaker 2: I don't think ABC because or it was like on
Speaker 2: ABC or CW.
Speaker 1: Was on Yeah UPN and then c W.
Speaker 2: I don't think they were going to ever have the Tyra.
Speaker 1: And J Show because America wasn't ready for a gig
Speaker 1: guy co hosting a show.
Speaker 2: But it's also it's just Tyre Max. It's gonna be
Speaker 2: called it the Tyre MAXs Show.
Speaker 1: It's funny also that he like is coming around the
Speaker 1: same time as Stephen Cochocaru and was one of the
Speaker 1: first gays on TV, like a real fag, And it.
Speaker 2: Goes to what Kocho has told us that everyone was like,
Speaker 2: so like, we can't handle what a faggot you are.
Speaker 1: Kind of kind of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like miss Jay and I think mister j was always
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna be a little mask right, silver hair
Speaker 2: and kind of be the more controlled gay guy of
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, controlled gay guy with an up silver contact. But
Speaker 1: see then I'm like he is like kind of uptight
Speaker 1: and maybe he would have freaked out if Nigel like
Speaker 1: came on to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does seem a little up tight and like
Speaker 2: he never looked hooks up in the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting and.
Speaker 2: He mentions like, oh, maybe like some of the lucky
Speaker 2: people like in our three week break can have sex.
Speaker 1: Because I'm sure also random contestants on the show were
Speaker 1: fucking producers.
Speaker 2: And the camera, which is another thing yes.
Speaker 1: That happens in the book. And it's like, I'm sure
Speaker 1: he's looking at this girls being like, damn, I'm jealous
Speaker 1: of the fight that.
Speaker 2: You're wish at the time. But here I am eating
Speaker 2: ice cream.
Speaker 1: With Tyra, with Tyra be four in the morning while
Speaker 1: I'm like going over all the creative for this photo
Speaker 1: shoot and she's not doing any of the.
Speaker 2: Work, and then she's going in fucking a football player.
Speaker 2: I still have to go through spreadsheets with Ken Mob. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: the rule is, you can't believe anyone in Hold.
Speaker 1: Don't believe anyone in Hollywood. You can't make an omelet
Speaker 1: without breaking a few eggs. And no, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: make one of the best reality shows of all time.
Speaker 2: Without stepping on fucking tails.
Speaker 1: Okay, and like causing a lot of trauma.
Speaker 2: Because Pablo even gets in a fight with himself aka
Speaker 2: j Manuel in the book, and that's the real lesson.
Speaker 2: You get in a fight with your inner men tour
Speaker 2: actually trust no one. Okay. Everyone is like, so fucking shady.
Speaker 1: America's next top segments, What does she eat?
Speaker 2: What does she wear? How does she live? Wait, I
Speaker 2: have to read.
Speaker 1: A passage about how does she live? About the apartment?
Speaker 2: About the apartment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this passage is pretty probably accurate to
Speaker 1: his personal style.
Speaker 2: Well, and in this it's very like Pablo spent hours
Speaker 2: designing his new apartment. Coming through the front door, Pablo
Speaker 2: wanted his guest eyes to be drawn to the ultimate
Speaker 2: focal wall opposite his bedroom. At first glance, it looked
Speaker 2: like an architectural detail, but it concealed the components in
Speaker 2: his bank Ulson home theater system, which revealed the press
Speaker 2: of a button or a request from Siri. In front
Speaker 2: of that was a light gray Minotti sectional sofa and
Speaker 2: one of his last famous script rugs, with illeligible black
Speaker 2: writing scribbled across the white fabric. A white lacquer desktop
Speaker 2: appeared to be floating in space above clear loosite legs
Speaker 2: that had been fashioned to look like cut crystal stemmed
Speaker 2: champagne glasses. He'd actually splurged on having a custom made
Speaker 2: Eames executive chair created for his desk, white, of course,
Speaker 2: like the clean palette of a painter. Pablo had created
Speaker 2: a modern neoclassical vibe to help him keep a clear
Speaker 2: mind when he wasn't on the chaotic set of Model Muse.
Speaker 2: So it's just so gay, and it's like everything is
Speaker 2: like white and loosit and like modern and metal and
Speaker 2: like a white Eames chair. It's just like everything is
Speaker 2: so just like Gay Guy twenty twelve, like white, clear and.
Speaker 1: Modern modern modern rome.
Speaker 2: And there's like so much loos site and like floating
Speaker 2: mirrors everywhere. I almost think his apartment is like cheesy
Speaker 2: yours than this, and this is his fantasy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that he's like Big Audrey Hepburn.
Speaker 2: Like do you think it's like silver white, fake crystal
Speaker 2: Big Audrey Heppern like mirror chandelier and like maybe there
Speaker 2: is like a loosight desk for sure, with like a
Speaker 2: white lacquer tabletop. And I think it's like a white
Speaker 2: leather sexual or bouclet. Now probably you.
Speaker 1: Don't think he's gotten into any like more textiles in
Speaker 1: the past few years.
Speaker 2: Well, I think he likes MASONI pillows because he mentions those,
Speaker 2: So I think he does have pops of color.
Speaker 1: Okay, and pattern, pops of color and pattern exactly.
Speaker 2: But he's still like white, silver and matrix. What does
Speaker 2: he wear? He's always wearing just like the tightis like buttoned.
Speaker 1: The way he dresses is like kind of how everyone
Speaker 1: dresses to the club now, Like every gay guy looks
Speaker 1: like j Manuel now where they're wearing like it's so
Speaker 1: like bearragone. It's so like I'm wearing a tight animal
Speaker 1: print vest and then flared jeans like bootcut distressed jeans,
Speaker 1: and I have dyed my hair and I have an earring.
Speaker 2: He's now like so much, even more silver in his hair.
Speaker 1: He just like wet with silver and like cause.
Speaker 2: First cycle it was like bleached blonde and then I
Speaker 2: got more and more silver. What does he eat? I
Speaker 2: mean he probably can't even look at Joe's Shanghai now yeah,
Speaker 2: or de Lache, But I think he's just like Sushi Taie.
Speaker 1: It's also funny because it's like Tyra does have an
Speaker 1: ice cream company now, so like the whole ice cream
Speaker 1: part is very true.
Speaker 2: Not to say the amount. He must fucking hate Tyra.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. The only thing he changed is make one
Speaker 2: girl irish and add in a sex scene for himself
Speaker 2: because he probably didn't like fuck for eight years anyway.
Speaker 2: I just think he's very like Sesame ginger dressing, but
Speaker 2: like he's buying.
Speaker 1: It from Annie's Annie's dressing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, girls in the fridge, white.
Speaker 1: Snow because hello, he's so like Matrix Modern. He's not
Speaker 1: getting like bread and Circus asked like Cambridge mom dressing.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to like the Union Square
Speaker 2: Whole Foods right now and is grabbing a three sixty
Speaker 2: five Sesami ginger dressing.
Speaker 1: A Preta Mande loyalty card and that thing is worn out.
Speaker 2: I think he is making like a salmon for him
Speaker 2: and like miss things sometimes.
Speaker 1: Or maybe he's like factor meals now.
Speaker 2: Oh, just delivery. I just don't you know if he
Speaker 2: can afford the factory meals right now. Like so I'm
Speaker 2: saying she's grocery shopping. I like literally like Da Castino's.
Speaker 1: He's getting the pre mix, like mung bean salad. Yeah, okay, Chills,
Speaker 1: who are you in the book? I honestly identified with
Speaker 1: almost everyone in this book because I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: I feel like Rachel Prod the like Xanax popping producer.
Speaker 1: I feel like Janis, who's just like a sleep. I
Speaker 1: feel like Nigel, who's British. I feel Nigel.
Speaker 2: Sorry. The only person you're not in this book is.
Speaker 1: I feel like Tyra because she's like.
Speaker 2: You're Tyra Bean, Like, come over, I have flavors, but
Speaker 2: that are all to just.
Speaker 1: Like go, yeah, come over, you need to leave.
Speaker 2: You're always been like one of the dumplings. I love
Speaker 2: not that.
Speaker 1: Not that are you Jay, because like you are so
Speaker 1: like I went to fashion school and I dreamed of
Speaker 1: becoming a fashion designer and you're so f I T right.
Speaker 2: And I'm like working for Michael Cores, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is my one shot. Do you feel like I'm
Speaker 2: being so like.
Speaker 1: You do behind this?
Speaker 2: No? If you say, oh, you're so silly. Little do
Speaker 2: they know.
Speaker 1: I'm writing a podcast, writing podcast descriptions every week.
Speaker 2: And coming up with photoshoot ideas and like, I'm not adopted,
Speaker 2: but what if I was.
Speaker 1: No one will be surprised.
Speaker 2: The adoption storyline in this book. That's a reason to
Speaker 2: support Jay.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're Jay.
Speaker 2: You're Tyra. I think I'm also like miss d La
Speaker 2: renta stylist who I'm just like, girl, don't go there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were Switzerland because he's so neutral and that
Speaker 1: is so you and you are like neutral in a war.
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of like getting the tea.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, don't I totally see Switzerland for you
Speaker 1: Switzerland and Tyra.
Speaker 2: But also you're Gemos. Thank you because you're actually Sweden.
Speaker 2: People think you're such a bitch, right, but you're actually
Speaker 2: just giving.
Speaker 1: Like no, it's like to criticism is bitchy, but like
Speaker 1: as a human at.
Speaker 2: The end of the day, like picking someone up at
Speaker 2: the hospital, yes, and.
Speaker 1: You're not about taking care of my own loyalty is everything.
Speaker 2: To me in this industry. Okay, how do I it's
Speaker 2: so crazy to write this book. On one hand, I'm
Speaker 2: like ten fierce catwalks out of ten, Like as a
Speaker 2: kind of piece of outsider art, it's so amazing. If
Speaker 2: I'm talking about fiction, fiction is not.
Speaker 1: So fiction is not literature. It is barely I I
Speaker 1: do struggle with that and just the overall quality of it.
Speaker 1: But then I'm like, yes, as a piece of like
Speaker 1: mail art.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like outsider mail art, like MoMA conceptual art from
Speaker 2: wordy dot com.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with it, and I'm obsessed that he just
Speaker 1: went forward and did it and was like, twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: I'm publishing this book that no one wants for some reason,
Speaker 1: even though it is it insane.
Speaker 2: Tell all, I just can't believe you went there and
Speaker 2: really tore Tyra a new one like this.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that he didn't just write a memoir, but
Speaker 1: I guess it's like the legal issues of him too much,
Speaker 1: and he was like too afraid.
Speaker 2: May of us speak, and he is not well.
Speaker 1: I also feel like maybe on some level he's hoping
Speaker 1: for forgiveness, forgiveness from Tyra and he wants that relationship
Speaker 1: to be repaired in some way.
Speaker 2: He wants her to read it and be like, you're right,
Speaker 2: I was rude. I was a bit calm over. We're
Speaker 2: having literally movies Dulce delche. Yeah, all right, mister Jay, Congratulations.
Speaker 1: Thank you. You are one of the most important culture
Speaker 1: figures of the century.
Speaker 2: You are the winner.
Speaker 1: You are the winner of of America's next top podcast Best.
Speaker 1: My Daughter and Arms on the Runway is our fabulous producer,
Speaker 1: Darby Masters.
Speaker 2: This episode was supervised produced by none other than Miss
Speaker 2: Thing abou Zafar, work Bitch.
Speaker 1: And of course we have no one to thank but
Speaker 1: mister Thing. Our engineer Bahid Fraser.
Speaker 2: Our fierce executive producer is Christina Everett Mother.
Speaker 1: Our theme song was done by Fierce down in Dirty
Speaker 1: Divas Stephen Phillips Horst. He makes me strut down the
Speaker 1: sidewalk like the catwalk that it is.
Speaker 2: Artwork was done by a really sexy, sexy British artist
Speaker 2: I discovered when I was in Miami on a work
Speaker 2: trip with Teddy Blintz.
Speaker 1: I originally conceive this podcast in bed with Prologue projects
Speaker 1: eating ice Cream one night, Well, it was three in
Speaker 1: the morning, we were crying about boys, and we were like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, we have to do it podcast about this. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: we have part of ways creatively, but I wish him
Speaker 1: the best in his future endeavors.