1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You should know, a production of My 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: and there's Jerry over there, and we have a special 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: visitor today, Chuck. Jerry's miso soup? Is that what that is? Yeah, 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: you'd lie, Jerry, that is miso soup. I don't care 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: what Jerry says. It's miso soup. Chuck is getting up 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: to sniffet. One of his beard hairs is dropped into 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Jerry's soup. Jerry's miso soup. It smells like, aren't its 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: it's I don't know what that is. Because miso soup 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: smells good. I don't think that's me. So it is 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: generally cloudier now Josh is smelling. It smells like miso 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: soup mixed with hospital corridor. If you were smelling, why 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: did the soup ripple under your nose as if you 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: were blowing out so gross? Did not see this intro coming? Chuck? 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: Oh goodness, So you feel okayh yeah, okay, a little 17 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: unwieldy lately. This's gonna be that's gonna be good. This 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: is a really interesting one that a lot of people 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: I think don't know about. I didn't know much about this, 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: and I think I came across an article just randomly somewhere, 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, human zoos. What is that? And I was like, oh, yeah, 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: it's like if you went to an EPCOT exhibit where 23 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: they were showing like, hey, this is what this interesting 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: tribe is like in this part of the world. Okay, 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: so so far kind of epcotty. Let's say Scandinavians. That 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: all depends on your approach, you know, as long as 27 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: it's not like, look at this weird tribe and it's like, 28 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: look at this interesting thing, right, look at this weird 29 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: tribe and maybe like throw money and bananas at them 30 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: to get them to dance for you. Well, we didn't 31 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: get to that part. It's like if EPCOT used humans 32 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: instead of you know, statues, and they do use some 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: humans to an extent, you could actually kind of weirdly 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: trace a line between Epcots like around the world thing 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: and this I don't know what that is. So you 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: know the big dome head Upcot, the geodesic domes. If 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: you go behind that, there's a bunch of different countries. 38 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: I went to Epcot when I was like twelve, Oh 39 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's maybe a dozen countries, maybe ten, 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: and it's staffed with people dressed like people from those countries. Sure, 41 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: but they are from those countries, right, A lot of 42 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: them are, if not all, that's the deal. Like, if 43 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: you're Sweden, you're Swedish, okay, and you're coming out like saying, hey, 44 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm from Sweden, how can I help you today? Have 45 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: some food? Basically the whole points to go eat. But 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: they're they're people kind of bringing their culture forth to 47 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: to be um enjoyed and um and to captivate the 48 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: people who were at Epcot. Right, Yeah, there's there's a 49 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: right way to do that. There is. The human zoos 50 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: were the exact wrong way to do this, and not 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: only was it the wrong way to do it, they 52 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: were done for all the wrong reasons too. Yeah, I 53 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: mean I was I wasn't trying to defend this at 54 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: all when I was researching it, but I did think 55 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: about the time period and like a Westerner's inherent fascination 56 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: with other parts of the world, which at its base 57 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: is like that's fine, It's okay to be fascinated with 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: another part of the world totally, but not like you know, 59 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: look at how weird that person is who is different 60 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: than me. Let's make fun of them because they you know, 61 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: we'll call them more primitive than we are, right, or 62 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: are inherently inferior to our race, which was another prevailing idea, 63 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: and the the whole the premise of this chuck started with, 64 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: like you said, just pure curiosity. It was, you know, 65 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: Europeans traveling around the world to new areas and we're 66 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: encountering people that they'd never encountered before. And there were 67 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: a there was a thread of people who were exploring 68 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: and like saying, hey, you want to come back to 69 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: England with me, or to France with me, or to 70 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: the Netherlands with me. Um, I can actually introduce you 71 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: to the king and the person would hop along on 72 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: board and they would go back and they would be 73 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: gawked at and and everything. But they were treated as 74 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: an individual. They had an identity, they were a person 75 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: even though they were different and another they still had 76 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: some sort of agency. That was step one that didn't 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: last very long. Well, no, because as we saw, there 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: was a fine line between you can go meet the 79 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: king and you can be the King's pet basically, yes, yeah, yeah, 80 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: So step two was really supported by this whole thing 81 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: that happened. And about the eighteen hundreds, the early early, 82 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: the first half of the eighteen hundreds, I gather something 83 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: called like biological anthropology, and it basically is that thing 84 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: that I said about the hierarchy of races, where one 85 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: race is superior to another that's inferior, and that you know, 86 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: there's a spectrum of human beings and UM on the 87 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: one end, or white Europeans, which under this this idea, 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: this auspice was the pinnacle of humanity, and on the 89 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: other end, it just kept going and going until you 90 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: basically reached um. Other primates like the apes and all 91 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: other peoples of the world were on the spectrum either 92 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: closer to Apes, closer to to white Europeans, but but 93 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: really nothing compared to white Europeans. And so there's this 94 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: idea that the people around the world were to be 95 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: studied and analyzed and and um poked at and prodded 96 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: and measured in this to support this burgeoning science, right yeah, 97 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: in the name of like study by scientists, supposedly, but 98 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: as far as the general public was concerned, something to 99 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: do on the weekend. Well that was stage three. Yeah. 100 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: Stage three is when the public is finally brought in 101 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: fully and that's when the human zoos really come in. 102 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: And that was the peak of colonialism. You remember our 103 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: Druids episode. It's just dropped today. So do you remember 104 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: we talked about how like Caesar and some of these 105 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: other conquering Romans were like basically writing propaganda about the Druids. 106 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: They committed human sacrifice and cannibalis and all that. So 107 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: they need to be civilized by the Romans. This is 108 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: the same exact thing, except it was you know, nineteenth 109 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: and twentieth century Europeans who were showing their people back home. 110 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: Look at how uncivilized these people are. Um, we need 111 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: to civilize them. This is it's good that we are 112 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: colonizing the rest of the world. Yeah. And obviously, um, 113 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: this happened in Europe, it happened in the United States 114 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: and North America. UM, in France and the eight hundreds 115 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundre it's there was a a place. It 116 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: was an agricultural site. Um. And this was sort of 117 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: like that Epcotty idea, which was basically like let's throw 118 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: something called the Paris Colonial exposition, and let's recreate these 119 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: uh and indigenous villages from the colonies. That's always in 120 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: the background. You know. People can't forget that because it's 121 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: not Epcot. It's like, these are places we have conquered basically, um, 122 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: and see what life was like there. So they would 123 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: recreate this with human live human beings, um, not quite 124 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: human zoos at this point, but more like acting out 125 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: like what they did, you know, wherever they were from, 126 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: but also really playing it up to the point where 127 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: it was just totally artificial. Yeah. Well, yeah, that might 128 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: speak more to just all art back then there was 129 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: a lot of subtlety and right performance. But if you're 130 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: also if you're saying, look at how one civilized these are, 131 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: and then turning around to the people, be like really 132 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: kind of like play up the shouting thing. Yeah, of course. 133 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: Well they wanted to sell tickets or at least drive people, 134 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, drive people's attention there. I don't know if 135 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: they were selling tickets, yes, said this one specifically. I 136 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: believe they were to the Paris colonial um. So the 137 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: other thing you have to remember is they weren't just 138 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: sort of like, uh, it was sort of like they 139 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: were carneys, they weren't treated well, they had terrible living conditions. 140 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: They would get sick, they would get disease, they would 141 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: be left in the cold, and if they died, they 142 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: would be buried in a mass grave, whether unceremoniously. Yeah, 143 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: so that's another thing, Like because the humans zoos are 144 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: horrific enough, just the idea that that they put on 145 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: these things, and then even worse than that that people 146 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: came to see and like throw money in bananas at 147 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: people and like mock them in jeer at them. Um, 148 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: that's bad enough, But then the idea that these people 149 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: lost their lives as a result of coming over to 150 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: Europe to put on these performances or whatever, and we're 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: just buried in unmarked graves. That just takes it down 152 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: just the darkest path there is, you know, like that 153 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: that you go to Belgium to to be in this 154 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: exhibition and end up buried in an unmarked grave. You 155 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: lost your life because you went to a place you 156 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: otherwise wouldn't have gone had Belgium not colonized Congo, you know, 157 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: in in eighteen seventy six, right, Yeah, I mean Belgium. 158 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: We can get into that a little bit what was 159 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: their exhibit called Congo Rama. Well that was the last 160 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: one of all of them, but sure, yeah, I mean 161 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the first one they were just something. It was France Belgium. Uh, 162 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: like I said, it was going on all over the 163 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: place and they had congo rama spelled with the K 164 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: even well I think this's Belgian, is it? I think? 165 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: So okay? Or maybe they're just trying to sell more tickets. Um, 166 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: who knows. Uh. These were men, women and children once 167 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: again put in these basically shows that show uh what 168 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: they're a ley life was like like these living exhibits 169 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: where white Europeans would be behind defense. It was always important. 170 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: There was always huge offense there to sort of trump 171 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: up the idea that like beware of what you're close to, 172 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: not just that chuck. It also reinforces a sense of 173 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: separateness and otherness too. Oh yeah, you know what I mean, 174 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: Like there's no mingling. You weren't meeting the people, like 175 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: where you just didn't walk up to somebody and like 176 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: introduce yourself to the person who was putting on the performance. 177 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: There wasn't any co mingling. It was offense separated you 178 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: from them, and you were there to observe and watch them, 179 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: and they were there to perform for you. Yeah. And 180 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: this uh, jumping back to King Leopold the Second brought 181 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: over two hundred and sixty seven Congolese men, women and 182 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: children to Brussels. Uh. And this was not even for 183 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: the Congo rama exhibit. This was for his own palace basically, yeah, 184 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: saying like put them in canoes and lakes and put 185 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: them over here in the fields, and I just want 186 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: sort of like this stuff going on all over the place. Yeah. 187 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: He made it like a diversion. So this is a 188 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: big deal for the Congo. And King Leopold also was 189 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: just a straight up villain. If you are um fascinated 190 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: by this kind of stuff and horrified by you should 191 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: go check out behind the bastards. By our colleague Robert Evans, 192 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: he's done some work on King Leopold the Second himself. 193 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: But so Belgium gets the Congo during this this this 194 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: U conference in Berlin in the eighteen seventies where basically 195 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: Europe divided up Africa and so this is our colony. 196 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: That's your calling, that's you're calling me. And the Congo 197 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: went to Belgium and Belgium is like this little tiny 198 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: country and the Congo is something like sixty or eighty 199 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: times the size of Belgium. But Belgium went there and 200 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: just ran rough shot over the people who were living there, 201 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: to expla void it um for its rubber and to 202 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: make money off of this this possession that it now had. 203 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: But part of this also was for the king to 204 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: show these people belong to us. I'm gonna have some 205 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: come live in this in their primitive ways on the 206 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: royal grounds, and all Belgians are welcome to come see 207 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: our new possessions. And they did, like more than a 208 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: quarter of Belgian residents citizens came to see this, this 209 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: display the King put on. Yeah, and this was in 210 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: seven but Belgium, like they had one of the last ones, 211 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: like you said, in nineteen at the World's Fair in Brussels. 212 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: That was a Congolese village there and uh, I believe 213 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: they had almost six hundred people. Um. They were paid 214 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: And a lot of people will point to that and say, 215 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: like they didn't have to be there, they could leave. 216 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: They were paid, But that's sort of I don't know, 217 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: that's a bit of a whitewashing. I think so because 218 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: a lot of them died as well because of the 219 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: cold summer. And I think that's really important though to 220 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: bring up Chuck, Like if you read a lot of 221 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on this, like it's just like 222 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: these people were victims and and nothing more, um, And 223 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: there removes a lot of agency from a lot of 224 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: the people who went there to make money, um, off 225 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: of the the Westerners who were going to come gawk 226 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: at them or whatever, and they went back home and 227 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: they took their money with them. Um. There was there 228 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: were people who were straight up like victims, who were 229 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: straight up captives who were brought to you know, Europe 230 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: in America virtually against their will or or they were 231 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: um they were tricked or fooled into signing contracts whatever. 232 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: But there were a lot of people who came on 233 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: their own accord and did it because they wanted to, 234 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: because they wanted to make money or whatever. And you 235 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: have to like, the whole thing is more complex than that, 236 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: and you have to recognize that fact so that the 237 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: people do have agency still the agency that they did have. 238 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you can't point to and 239 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: be like, see, that justifies everything the white Europeans did, 240 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: because it really justifies basically nothing. Well yeah, and they 241 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: talk about after nineteen fifty eight that was like kind 242 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: of the last Um, well, we'll talk about some sort 243 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: of modern versions of this, but like ecot no, no, 244 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: we love our friends at Disney. We love our imagineer friends. 245 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: You know what they're called. Yes, imagine you gotta earn 246 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: that rank. I think it's a specific kind of job 247 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: at Disney. Okay, I think, Um, I think you really 248 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: know this, but you'd have to kill me if you 249 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: really divulged. You've got the insider secrets. Um. So, yeah, 250 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: this is one of the last ones. And they said 251 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: that the advent of movies and motion pictures is what 252 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: really stopped it, because it's not like it's not like 253 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: they said we just shouldn't do this anymore. They were 254 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: just like, well, now we're just gonna make degrading racist 255 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: films portraying these people, like ten years later and have 256 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: and have a lot widespread, more widespread release. What was 257 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: that first documentary called like Mondo Kane or something like that. 258 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: I've never known how to pronounce it, but it was 259 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: like my sen I don't know, Yeah, that's right, that's 260 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: how it spelled. But it was like the predecessor to 261 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: things like faces of death or whatever. And it was 262 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: just they just took their their camera and went around 263 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: the world and looked at how savage and weird other 264 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: people were who played up everything for the camera, just 265 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: focused on weird rituals and stuff like that. But it 266 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,479 Speaker 1: was the exact same thing. It was a total extension 267 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: and outgrowth of human zeus. Yeah, and this was this 268 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: isn't us saying weird. Just clear that up, I think so. 269 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: But we just gotta be careful. You want to take 270 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: a break, Yeah, man, let's take a break, and uh, 271 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: you want to come back and talk about Oda binga 272 00:15:42,120 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: after that? Yeah? All right, all right. So I feel 273 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: like we've kind of given like a good overview of 274 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: human zuos, right like basically from the last quarter of 275 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century up to the middle of the twentieth century, 276 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: they had their heyday and then just became more more 277 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: and more tasteless to Westerners over time as it became 278 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: obvious like what was really going on. Um. But there's 279 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: one guy who kind of like had the most tragic 280 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: life I've ever encountered ever, and his name was Ode Banga. Yeah, 281 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: who was the kid kept in a box. There's been 282 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: most experience for that experiment. It's like his father too, 283 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't it. I don't. Oh, the skinner kids, I think 284 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: so like these are the two people that come to 285 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: mind when I think of like worst human existence. This 286 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: is depressing. So ode Banga was um. He was a 287 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: hundred three pounds. He was four ft eleven um. He 288 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: was this this when you referenced before the break about 289 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: people that were literally sort of captured and brought over, 290 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: he fits that bill for sure. Uh. He was brought 291 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: over to the United States by a man named Samuel 292 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: Verner from South Carolina, Proud game Cock. He was an 293 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: African missionary and was commissioned by the St. Louis World's Fair, 294 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: which was what nineteen o four. So before that they said, hey, 295 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: why don't you go over there and bring us back 296 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: a bunch of pigmies and and he's like, all right, 297 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: I know that we're using that word now and they 298 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: probably won't in the future, but you shouldn't even like 299 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: say that word anymore. I see it. I've seen it. 300 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: I've seen both. Yeah, I've seen I've seen it used 301 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: like it's just you know, like calling Native Americans Indians 302 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: like some some Native Americans are like, it's well, we're 303 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: used to I've seen the same thing with Pygmy's as well, 304 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: although I've also seen it's extremely derogatory because it was 305 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: also back in the nineteenth century used as a term 306 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: for monkey. So like if you're calling uh an African 307 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: um Congolese tribes person um pigmy, at the time, you 308 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: were calling him a monkey. So yeah, I could see 309 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: how that would be extremely derogatory too. Well, this is 310 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: certainly the language they used back then. And they told 311 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: him to go over there, and he was like great. 312 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: He got letters from the U. S Secretary of State, 313 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: the president of the American Anthropological Association, the governor of Missouri. 314 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: That'll open some doors, and the Belgian Secretary of State. 315 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: Uh great name Chevalier couvaliera Um because at the time 316 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: Congo was still under the control of Belgium. And they 317 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, go get go, round up some people 318 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: and let's bring him back for the World's Fair. And 319 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: one of the gentlemen they brought back was ode Banka. Yeah, 320 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: so I want to give a little more background Odebanka 321 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: because the fact that he was brought back to to 322 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: be in a human zoo is pretty it's bad enough, 323 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: like that's a that's a really dark chapter of anybody's life. 324 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: Like everything about his life leading up to that point 325 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: predicted that this was going to happen. Um When he 326 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: was a little kid, he was born into a tribe 327 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: Muti tribe in Congo in about three and one day 328 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: he went off on an elephant hunt and came back 329 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: and his entire family and village had been slaughtered by 330 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: the Belgians. Because remember we said that the Belgians like 331 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: came to Congo and just overran the place for rubber production. Well, 332 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: the king held a private army called the Forced Publique, 333 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: and they enforced rubber quotas. So if your village didn't meet, 334 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: it's you know, rubber quotas for the day or the 335 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: month or the week or whatever. The Force public might 336 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: come in and kill everyone, or they might hold like 337 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: some public amputation to make an example of somebody Um, 338 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: or do basically any horrible thing you can do to 339 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: another human being, all to keep people in line and 340 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: to keep the rubber flowing for the king's coffers. Right, 341 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: this happened to Oda Banga's family. So he finds himself 342 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: Um a little hundred pound, like less than five ft 343 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: tall oda banga Um basically wandering the congo alone, and 344 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: he was in short order captured by by slave traders 345 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: who enslaved him and sold him to a labor camp. Yeah. 346 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: His uh if you see pictures of him, he has 347 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: these fangs for teeth. His teeth were fied filed down 348 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: per the you know Congolese um customs and traditions. So 349 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: at first I thought that the Americans did that, but 350 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: he had already did that. But they they were like, 351 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: oh yeah, this like plays into our narrative perfectly. It's 352 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: gonna sell so many tickets. Yeah, so they they trot 353 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: him out at the St. Louis World's Fair. Um. But 354 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: that's not where his story is because he went from 355 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: there to the Bronx Zoo in New York. Um on 356 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: display in a literal cage with animals with with chimpanzees 357 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: sometimes and orangutans, I think was his his most frequent companion. Yeah, 358 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: and it's really, I mean just devastating, like people would 359 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: pokem and prod him and throw bananas at um. And 360 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: the New York Times wrote about I mean, I think 361 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: they're harold their headline was bushman shares a cage with 362 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: Bronx park apes. Um, and the New York Times was 363 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: just it's not like they were writing an article of outrage. 364 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: They were saying, like, come check this out. They were 365 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: actually responding to the outrage. So very short order. Um, 366 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: the Colored Minister's Convention is what it was called. Um, 367 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: the some of the black ministers around New York got together. 368 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: We're like, dude, um, this has to end immediately. We like, 369 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: there's a black guy in a zoo and he's being 370 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: he's being held in a cage on public display with 371 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: a monkey. Yeah, and this is like forty something years 372 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: after the end of slavery, right, So um, they banded 373 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: together and mounted protests and and eventually, in pretty quick 374 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: short order, got um Odobanga released to their their custody 375 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: and care. Um. But the New York Times like published editorials, 376 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: at least one of them saying like, what's all the 377 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: hubbub about? Like the guys on the low end of 378 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: the spectrum, you know, Um, as far as this hierarchy 379 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: of races is concerned, so why wouldn't we put him 380 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: in a cage and study him and observe him like 381 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: of course there's much to be learned, right, So that 382 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: really kind of gets it at the heart of of 383 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: what was driving this at the time, public curiosity, colonization, 384 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: but also that completely racist science that would eventually lead 385 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: to eugenics, the eugenics movement in the West in the 386 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, he was turned over to um one 387 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: of the leaders of the Colored Baptist Minister's Conference, Reverend 388 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: James Gordon. Uh, he was a superintendent of the Howard 389 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: Colored Orphan Asylum in Brooklyn. And his quote is like 390 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: one of the saddest things I've ever read, he said, 391 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: And this was like, this is how he tried to 392 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: explain that it was bad. He said, our race, we 393 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: think is depressed enough without exhibiting one of us with 394 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: the apes. We think we are worthy of being considered 395 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: human beings with souls. Like the very fact that he 396 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: had to point out that fundamental, like so obvious thing 397 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: is just so sad, you know. I mean, he had 398 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: to actually make a press statement saying, by the way, 399 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: he's a human, like you understand that, right, And we've 400 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: got enough problems here trying to gain agency in this country. Uh, 401 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: can you help us out here? And so they turned 402 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: him over to him. Uh. He lived the rest of 403 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: his life. He almost went back to Africa UH in 404 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, but World War one broke out and that 405 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: stopped all. Like passengership. He he did go back to Africa, 406 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: want he visited. He wanted to move back in nineteen fourteen. 407 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: So this is what I understand that. Um. Samuel Verner, 408 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: the guy who originally negotiated UM for Odobanga to come 409 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: with him back to the World's Fair, negotiated well. He 410 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: negotiated with the slaves traders. Um. He took Odebanga back 411 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: to the Congo, and Odebanga, from what I read, said, 412 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: there's no place here for me anymore. I'll come back 413 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: with you. Came back to the States and didn't feel 414 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: any more comfortable or at home in the States and 415 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: decided he did want to go back to Africa and 416 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: never made it back that last time. Yeah, thanks to 417 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: World War One. Um. He lived in Virginia. He worked 418 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: at a tobacco company. Um. Apparently it was a good 419 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: worker and a good employee. Uh. And killed himself. Yeah, 420 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: shot himself in the chest with a borrowed revolver somehow 421 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: borrowed makes it even worse. You know what I mean? 422 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: Does it? Yeah, something about it? I can't I put 423 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: my finger on interesting. But Um during this time, so 424 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: this is like think about this. His whole family and 425 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: villages slaughtered. He's captured and sold into slave labor for years. 426 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: Um taken away by an anthropologist who trades a pound 427 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: assault in the bolt of cloth for him, is forced 428 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: into a human zoo. Is forced into an actual zoo 429 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: in a monkey cage. UM, and then he tries to 430 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: go back home, doesn't feel at home at home, comes 431 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: back to the States. It's just depressed for ten more years, 432 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: and then takes his own life with the borrowed revolver 433 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: that was the life of Oda Benga. For Gordon's part, 434 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: he tried to help him have a life in the States. 435 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: UM got him like, tried to integrate him with American clothing. 436 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: He got his teeth capped. UM sent him to school. 437 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: He was he was like he wanted to try and 438 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: fit in, but he he was a man without a home. 439 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: You know, he didn't fit in anywhere. Yeah, it's really 440 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: really sad. Yeah, it's super sad. So he really kind 441 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: of UM demonstrates like a mayor. Erica's involvement in this. 442 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: He was, he was prominent in the nineteen o four St. 443 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: Louis World's Fair, and he was put on display in 444 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: the Bronx Zoo. And again, like you said, not just 445 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: the New York Times was you know, arguing in favor 446 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: of keeping him in there. The fact that he was 447 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: in there, and that zoo attendants doubled over the previous 448 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: year the month he was there, and that, um, the 449 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: head of the Zoological Society in New York was like, 450 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: let's bring some monkeys in and put him in with 451 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: a cage, because apparently he was taken to the Bronx 452 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: Zoo under the auspices that he would be caring for 453 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: the animals, not that he was going to be put 454 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: on display. And once he got there there like we 455 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: have a different idea for you. Yeah, and he would 456 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean, if you read accounts at the time, he 457 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: would basically just sort of sit there depressed. Eventually, after 458 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks he got a little obviously kg 459 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: um like experiencing zukosis like an animal might. Uh. And 460 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: then they start letting him out to like walk around 461 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: the four some. He would shoot his bow and arrow some. 462 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: But then when people saw that he was in the forest, 463 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: they would come after him and he was quickly kind 464 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: of ushered back into his cage. Yeah so um, but yeah, 465 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: the fact that all this happened really kind of underscores 466 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: the complicity of everybody alive at the time. I mean, 467 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: there were people who protests protested against it. Obviously, the 468 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: the Colored Baptist Minister's Conference was very vocal about it 469 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: and were secured his release. But they were in the minority, 470 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: and like everybody else was just tacitly approving this, just 471 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: by allowing it to go on and not speaking out 472 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: about it. And some people trace this um and the 473 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: fact that human zoos ever existed directly to the undercurrent 474 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: of racism prevalent in the West today. That like that 475 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: is the basis of it, certainly part of it. So 476 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: let's let's take another break. Then we'll come back and 477 00:27:50,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about St. Louis. So nineteen o four 478 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about the St. Louis World's Fair, 479 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: but they had more living exhibits than just Oda Banga. 480 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: By the way, Odebanga made friends with Geronimo. Did you 481 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: know that? I did not know that, So they're the 482 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: enclosure for the Congolese and the enclosure for the Native 483 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: Americans were beside one another. Geronimo and Odebank actually became 484 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: pretty good friends. I'm hanging out. Is that a silver lining? Okay? Um? 485 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: The Philippines play a large part in this. That was 486 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: a forty seven acre area at the St. Louis World's 487 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: Fair dedicated to more than a thousand uh Filipinos of 488 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: various tribes UM specifically this uh one tribe in the 489 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: mountains of the Philippines, um the Ergo Rot. They in 490 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: fact that in means in Tagalog mountain people uh. And 491 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: they were unique in the world. And then they successfully 492 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: defended their land against colonization forever like they were never 493 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: Spain never got to them, uh so Ergo they were, 494 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, left largely intact culturally, right, So they had 495 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: a reputation UM by the time the St. Louis World's Fair, 496 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: and I believe they were billed as such as being 497 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: like the most savage tribe in the world, if not 498 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: just the Philippines, but either way, which really means white 499 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: people had not been able to get to them yet. 500 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: So they're just slipping their nice peaceful life as they 501 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: always have. One of the things that was like made 502 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: like a lot of hay was made about the igar 503 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: rots was that they would eat dog, and that um 504 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: they would. They In reality that the rats did act 505 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: really eat eat dog, but it was under very specific circumstances. 506 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: And if a family sacrificed and ate their dog, their 507 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: family dog, it was it was a really bad sign 508 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: for the family. It told the rest of the village 509 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: that they were in some dire straits because the family 510 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: would sacrifice the dog basically like the dog was taking 511 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: one for the team, um, to get this family out 512 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: of whatever horrible streak of luck or whatever they had 513 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: going on, and then they would eat the dog and 514 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: that that ritual process will be done. It was very 515 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: very rare. It was basically done as a last ditch 516 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: attempt to reverse fortunes for this family that had fallen 517 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: on hard times or was undergoing illness or whatever. But 518 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: that did happen. It did exist. If you take the 519 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: Igorante people and put them in the nineteen four St. 520 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: Louis World's Fair, that happens every morning. Every morning, a 521 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: dog would be sacrificed and eaten by the agats. Yeah, 522 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: and not only that they would take like uh sacred 523 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: ego rot rituals um like crowning a chief. And it 524 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: wasn't enough just to put them on display and have 525 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: people look at them. Is they took their traditions, their 526 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: sacred rituals and use them as as dramatic fodder basically, Right, 527 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: So it's becomes it's like a theme park schedule to 528 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: come see these different quote unquote shows performed that were 529 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: really these ego rot uh rituals that they had held 530 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: dear and were untouched by white man until this point. Right. 531 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: And then let's not forget the dogs that were sacrificed 532 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: like every day because of this. Right. So here's the 533 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: other thing too. You might say, well, that's crazy. They 534 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: used to sacrifice and eat their dogs. That's that's weird. 535 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: That's other, Right, they sacrifice and their dogs for every 536 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: day for the um satisfaction of white crowds who came 537 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: to see them. So the igorat Um Village was the 538 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: most um successful and lucrative exhibit in the entire nineteen 539 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: o four World's Fair. There were something like nineteen something 540 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: million people who came to St. Louis for the World's 541 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: Fair that year. Of them paid an extra nickel to 542 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: go see the Igorott Village. Everybody went to see the 543 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: Iggorott Village is because they wanted to go see someone 544 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: half dressed sacrifice a dog and then eat it. That's 545 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: what people paid to see. It had nothing to do 546 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: with learning about their culture and nothing to do with anything. 547 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: It was about seeing somebody do something horrific and weird 548 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: for your edification. Yeah, and it was. Um. I mean, 549 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: there are so many people that you could pluck out 550 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: of history and sort of uh used as an example, 551 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: whether it's Otta Binga or this woman uh Sarchy Bartman, Yeah, 552 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: the hot and taught Venus. Yeah. She was South African 553 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: and she was born somewhere around seventeen eighty and she 554 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: was brought to London in the early eighteen hundreds and 555 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: put on display. And she actually had a genetic characteristic 556 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: um called stia tope stiatpagia. Is that right? I think 557 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: so close enough, I should tell the audience. I'm nodding silently, 558 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: but that is when you have a um. I mean 559 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: the ways described here medically is a protuberant buttocks and 560 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: elongated labia, right, not like like like genetically protuberant buttocks yeah, 561 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: like like very very big. Yes, that's that's clear. Um. 562 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: So they brought her over in London put her on display. 563 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: Later on she went to Paris, she was described as 564 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: having the buttocks of a mandril um. And then finally 565 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand two, her remains were repatriated to South Africa. Um. 566 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: And we haven't even mentioned stuff like that. They would 567 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: dress up Odabinga's cage with bones and things like anything 568 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: just to make him seem more primitive, and he was 569 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: probably like, one, are all these bones laying around? More primitive, 570 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: more scary, more in need of civilization. Like if you 571 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: think about it, that the Igorat exhibit, the Philippines exhibit, 572 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: and the fact that it was even part of the 573 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: nineteen o four World's Fair, that it's the same thing 574 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: that was a colonial possession of America. The United States 575 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: had gotten into colonizing itself, and the Philippines was one 576 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: of its colonial possessions. So they were bringing the most 577 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: savage of the savage from the Philippines over here to 578 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: basically justify why America was there to civilize the Filipinos. Um. 579 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: And it was this. It just followed the same script 580 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: and apparently it always has. Anytime somebody goes and conquers 581 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: another another land, they have to basically demonstrate how what 582 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 1: they're doing is actually good for the people they're conquering, 583 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: not that they're being exploited and murdered there. This is 584 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: actually good for them. We're going to civilize them. And 585 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: it continued all the way up until that nineteen fifty 586 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: eight World's Fair in Belgium. Well, and some people say 587 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: it continues today while they're not rounding people up and 588 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: bringing them somewhere else. Um, you can go to what 589 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: they call human safari's when they basically will put you 590 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: on a bus or on a boat and drive you 591 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: to these tribes people to let you gaulk at them 592 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: from afar Uh, notably in India's on Deman Island, the 593 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: Jarawa Jarhuahua. It sounds like I'm saying they're wrong, but 594 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: it's totally right uh their tribe. Basically, there was a 595 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: video from two thousand twelve that The Guardian dug up 596 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: that showed these people just you know, it's kind of 597 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: the same thing, except they weren't brought over and put 598 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: in cages, but they're still gawked at. And this was 599 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: what six years ago. It's amazing that this is still 600 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: going on. I think it is so the Indian Supreme 601 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: Court outlawed it, but it's still going on. Is of 602 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: the most recent article as I was like two thousand seventeen. 603 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like a human humans of far Yeah. 604 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: So um. And again, a lot of people directly trace 605 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: this to the undercurrents of racism in the West today. 606 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: Something like one point for billion people saw human zoos 607 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: during their heyday from about eighteen sixty seven and ninety eight. 608 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: One point for billion people. That's a lot of people, 609 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: especially if you're considering that it was really just people 610 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: in Europe and America, right, Um, and that that had 611 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: to have had an effect. It clearly had an effect. 612 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: The fact that people were like, oh, I'm gonna go 613 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: check this out and maybe throw a banana at somebody 614 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: because I want him to dance. The fact that like 615 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: that was a mindset clearly is still clinging to the 616 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: to the international global psyche, at least in the West today. Yeah, 617 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean it definitely helped reinforce that idea of Western 618 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: white superiority that's still so prevalent. So you got anything else, Yeah, 619 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean we should talk real quick about this protest 620 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: art in Oslo about four years ago, four or five 621 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,919 Speaker 1: years ago, there were these artists that did a recreation 622 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 1: of and this was all to bring UM, to shed 623 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: light on this. It was protest art, but they were 624 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: recreating the World's Fair of nineteen fourteen UM. In this case, 625 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: there were Senegalese environments that they were recreating UH and 626 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: it sort of had mixed results. Like some people got 627 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: it and we're on board and saying, yeah, I see 628 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: what you guys are doing, sort of like this meta 629 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: art approach. But then other people came out UM and said, 630 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: like it's an abusive art and really we're highly critical 631 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,959 Speaker 1: of it, which is it didn't It didn't They didn't 632 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: nail it, and it didn't. Yeah, go over very well 633 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: in all quarters. Yeah, one more thing. Check that nineteen 634 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: fifty eight World's Fair in Belgium. Like if if everything 635 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: we've stayed up to this point seems like weird and 636 00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: far off and and just past and historical. Go look 637 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: up the picture of the little girl from uh Congo 638 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: at the World's Fair UM being fed by an older 639 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: white woman leaning over a fence to theater. Like it 640 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: drives home everything everything we just said doesn't even compare 641 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: to this one picture. It just it's really tough to 642 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: look at, but it drives the entire thing home because 643 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: it's it's recent enough that it just feels like, oh, 644 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: this just happened. Yeah, she's in a little little American dress. Yep, 645 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: a little white dress. Okay, what about now? You got 646 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: anything else? Nothing else? Well, if you want to know 647 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: more about human zoos, just start looking them up around 648 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: the the internet and prepared to get bummed out. Uh. 649 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: And since I said that it's time for listener mail, 650 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this we got another elephant adopted in 651 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: our name. Yeah. If you remember a few weeks ago, 652 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: we read one about somebody who adopted an elephant in 653 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: her name and sent a little stuffed animal. Was very kind. Uh. 654 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: And this one goes a little something like this. Hey, guys, 655 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: loyal listener going on about ten years And I couldn't 656 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: have been happier. And to see your episode on elephants 657 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: pop up. One of the best Christmas gifts I ever 658 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: was given was the gift of fostering an orphan elephant 659 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: at the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust in Kenya. They're an 660 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: incredible organization that rescues, rehabilitates UH, and reintegrates orphan elephants 661 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,959 Speaker 1: back into the wild in Kenya. And they also find 662 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: anti poaching teams and mobile vet units that respond to 663 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: entreat injured wild elephants, UH and other wildlife. UM a 664 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: wood turner, and I donate of all my sales to 665 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: d s w T. And I'm thrilled to be able 666 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: to foster seven orphans right now. So as a massive 667 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: thank you for raising awareness, I sent each of you 668 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: something from my wood shop and donated what I would 669 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: have made to the d s w T and foster 670 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: to sweet little Jotto in your name. Jotto is pretty cute. 671 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 1: Have you seen him? Oh? Yeah, he's an elephant. Thanks 672 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: for brightening up my commutant, satisfying my insatiable thirst for 673 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 1: new and interesting facts. Lowell Hutchinson parentheses, BT dubs, I'm 674 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: a woman. Thanks a lot lot exclamation point. Well, everybody, 675 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: if you want, you can go to the David Sheldrick 676 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: Wildlife Trust and look up Jotto and see our adopted 677 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: elephant that we're fostering now thanks to Lowell. They should 678 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: call it Josh oh or can you get the name changed? 679 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: Maybe it depends on how how much you give. I think, Um, 680 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: there's only like five elephants that they just changed the 681 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: name right, a different picture. Thanks again, Lowell and low 682 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: didn't say where what her website is for wood turning, 683 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: but if you need some wood turned, look up Lowell 684 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: Hutchison and hopefully her site will come up. That's right. 685 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: Uh and uh. If you want to get in touch 686 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: with us like lolded or sponsor an elephant for us, 687 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 1: that's great too. You can get in touch with us 688 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: by going on to stuff you Should Know dot com 689 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: and looking up our social links or sending a certain 690 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: email to stuff podcast at i heart radio dot com. 691 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio's 692 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 693 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 694 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H