WEBVTT - Can a Card Game Become the Next Big Media Brand? 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.400 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:11.480 which we talked with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.480 in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety with a 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.759 name like Exploding Kittens. You know it's going to be 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.000 an unusual company, but the brand doesn't even begin to 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.439 tell the strange story of a board game that is 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.080 clearly on the verge of becoming a whole lot more 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.480 after landing a thirty million investment from the Churning Group 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.199 late last year. To find out what they're doing with 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.040 all that money, I've got company founder and CEO Elon 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.479 Lee with me today. Thanks for coming in. It's a 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.080 plus here, Thanks for having me. So what what kind 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.560 of sick bastard names their company or game Exploding Kitten? 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.720 Where does that come? I know, I know, you know. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.239 The original name of the game was Bomb Squad, and 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.960 that seems more taking right, right. So the concept of 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.360 the game was like, let's have a deck of cards, 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.720 will have a few bad cards in there, the bombs, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.960 try to avoid the bombs, and you go through the 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:01.959 duck trying to draw as many cards as you can 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.800 while avoiding the bomb. And my business partner Matthew Inman 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.679 who writes and draws The Oatmeal, said, the Oatmeal is 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.520 a comics, an online comic, one of the world's most 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.200 popular comics. In fact, I know it, I know it. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.360 Shout out to matt over here. Um. He looked at 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.959 this and he said, hey, you know, being scared of 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.640 the bomb is so obvious. What if instead you were 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.840 scared of acute, adorable, fuzzy little kitten. And we called 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.920 the game Exploding Kittens. And um, when Matthew Inman of 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.880 the Oatmeal makes a suggestion, uh, the correct answer is yes, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.800 let's do that. Um. And sure enough he was right, 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.960 and the thing caught on like crazy. And now we 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.440 have a game called Exploding Kittens, and everybody seems to 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.840 want it. Well, so to the caught on crazy point. 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:54.000 I I full disclosure. I'm not a big as what 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.120 they call now table top games. I'm going to convert you. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:58.800 This is my goal for the day. I'm going to 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.000 show you what you're missing. But so because I'm sort 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.480 of out of touch with that world. What are the 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:09.919 signs of success that one achieves that merits a thirty 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.960 million dollar investment? Right? Yeah, Well, let's be clear, none 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:18.160 of us ever saw that coming. So what happens is, Um, 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.079 we really thought this whole thing was just going to 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.200 be a little weekend project, right we I Matt had 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.320 been working on the Oatmeal. I was the chief design 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.040 officer at the Xbox. I just thought, like, we all 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.080 were really good at our jobs. We know what we're doing. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.280 Let's try something different, just for a weekend project. Fun. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.280 Will make this little game, put it up on Kickstarter, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.720 will print out, I don't know, five hundred copies. We'll 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.240 try to raise ten thousand dollars, and if we're successful, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:49.880 I'll invite all my friends over. We'll order a bunch 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.520 of pizza and beers, and we'll just pack boxes cardboard 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.320 boxes in my garage and and that will be a 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.880 really fast, super fast. Uh. We spent a few weeks 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.720 putting the thing together, and uh, in those thirty days, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:06.200 we raised almost nine million dollars instead. And so that's 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.040 the first trick, right, Like you get a runaway success 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.160 like this, something that really strikes a chord, something that's 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.640 beautiful and funny and interesting, and everyone who looks at 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:16.760 it thinks I want to get my hands on that, 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.600 Like that is a thing I need in my life. Um, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.880 and then beyond that, over the last five years, since 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.560 the end of that Kickstarter campaign, we've sold more than 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:33.280 nine million copies of that game. It's in twenty six 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.160 different languages right now. And when something hits that level 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.400 of popularity, Uh, it attracts the attention of a lot 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.840 of big players. Now, if one were to look at 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.440 your resume, you mentioned Xbox, You've worked at Industrial Light 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:57.360 and Magic. You're I mean a tech Okay, you said it. Um, 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.360 So how does someone I know it was just a hobby, 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.920 but how does someone with your background come to something 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.400 that seems sort of old fashioned? Um? My whole life 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.720 has been spent making making things for a screen, putting 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.320 kids in front of screens basically, And uh, I did 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.200 that for more than twenty years through the Xbox I've 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.840 done I've run advertising companies, video game companies. I've run 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.800 a clothing company that was heavily screen based. Uh. We 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.880 can talk about what the hell that means sometime. Um. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.279 But I finally got to this point where I realized 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.920 I am very much part of the problem. Like every 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.880 time I walk into uh, my my family's house, my 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.960 cousin's house. Uh, and they're staring at screens instead of 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.880 having a conversation with each other. With me, I'm the 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:50.839 problem there. And so I decided, what if instead we 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:56.360 tried as an experiment, the same storytelling, same entertainment, all 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.880 the things that I learned working at places like the 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.520 Xbox and industry, light and magic. What if we applied 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.560 those to something that lets us celebrate each other, uh, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:10.560 sit around the table, laugh, eat, make fun of each other, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.480 form alliances, uh, form betrayals like all that stuff where 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.760 we become the entertainment. What if I built the tools 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.200 to facilitate that. And that's what Exploding Kittens is. I mean, 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.560 you almost describe this, or maybe it's not, almost as 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.000 an act of penance on behalf of your screen based career. 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.200 I'm not gonna say no to that. Um it's it 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.280 was a lot of years of thinking really hard about 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.240 what are the right tools for storytelling? And now how 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.719 do I make that much much more social so that 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.400 instead of the stories that I tell bringing you away 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.480 from reality, what if they very very much root you 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.280 in reality with the people that are in the room 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.880 with you. And you know, you'll have to forgive me 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.760 for my condescension towards these this tabletop game category. I 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.960 used to call them board games. But the interesting thing is, 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.760 unbeknownst to me, this whole category is quite a growth story. 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.000 I mean, what am I missing? So I think we're 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.159 just watching the pendulum swing quite a bit. Um. We 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.479 have gone so far into the digital realm that there's 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.159 been a bit of backlash, right people shutting down their 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.800 Facebook accounts and trying to get off of social media. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.719 And what we're watching now is the pendulum swing the 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.000 other way. What can we do, even if it's just 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.960 once a week, What can we do with our friends, 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.280 with our family? What how do we how do we 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.880 enjoy each other's company a little bit more? And games 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.120 are the easiest possible. Think they're great ice breakers. It's 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.119 sort of that social lubricant um. It'll make you laugh, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.840 they'll make you creative. Uh, they'll make you form teams 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.680 with other people. And it is kind of the shortest 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.440 route from point A to point B where your goal is, 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.720 let's let's celebrate each other, let's enjoy each other. And 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.200 games have really, really in the last five years ppped 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.560 up to become the tool by which that is achieved. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.640 And is there something with the way you guys approached 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.800 this space that made Exploding Kittens resonate the way it has, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.840 because I wonder if it's the very irreverence of the name, 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.200 which is so different than when I think back to 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.400 my candy Land Monopoly, so, you know, stayed and formal. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.040 This feels like brand wise, maybe that's why you broke out. Yeah, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:26.440 I think that has a lot to do with it. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.520 I think, Um, traditionally classic board games and card games, 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.080 Monopoly and Uno and all those, we all were raised 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.320 on those. We know how to play them, we understand, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.320 but but they don't make you laugh. They don't. It 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:44.200 feels like they are thirty years old, fifty years old. 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.800 And the reason for that is because they are thirty 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.239 years old and fifty years old. And we really wanted 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.200 to step out and say, um, not that we expect 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.000 this to be successful, but that there is an opportunity 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:57.680 here to build the kind of game that we would like, 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.520 a modern take on a car game, and we're gonna 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.160 name it something funny, and the art on every single 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.400 card is going to make you laugh, and the rule 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.880 set is going to be unlike anything you've ever seen before, 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.400 and the instructions are going to be fast, and they're 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.680 going to make you laugh at well as well. The 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:16.960 very first line of the instructions I'm so proud to 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.679 say is stop, don't read these Reading is the worst 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.200 way to learn how to play a game. Instead, go 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.120 to this website, watch our four minute video, and you 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.000 will become an expert that quickly. Everything about the game 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.160 is kind of like, we don't need to think so 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.920 hard about the past and pull all that baggage forward 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.120 with us. Why don't we start fresh because the stakes 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.000 are so low, let's just give it a try. So 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.120 Exploding Kittens is really only where this has started. You 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.800 have since expanded this into multiple game. Yeah, we have 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.440 six games out on the market right now. Um. The 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.400 latest one is called Throw Throw Burrito, and um it's 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.320 our take on what happens if you mix a card 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:00.080 game with dodgeball. So such an intuitive right, why did 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.320 I come? But nobody, especially in the in the sort 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.240 of heritage of games, nobody's looking at areas like that. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.240 And this game is played. It's a fast, crazy game. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.320 You've got a deck of cards. Everyone's moving cards around 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.280 the table really fast. You're trying to collect a set 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.240 of three cards faster than everybody else. But at the 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.480 same time, there are these cute, squishy foam burritos being 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.040 hurled across the table. So while you're collecting cards, you 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:25.760 have to duck and dodge and pick them up and 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.040 throw them back and worry about way more things at 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.160 a time than your brain is capable of worrying about. 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.960 And that chaos is where the fun lives. For that game, 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.960 Throw Throw a Burrito has now become the number one 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.400 best selling game in Canada. It is hot on the 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.680 heels of Exploding Kittens, which holds the number one spot 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.319 in the US. And it's really exciting for us to 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.120 see that when we engage our audience, when we challenge 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.440 them to think about games differently and to have fun 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.480 around a table in a new way, they put their 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.440 money behind those things. And so where does the churning 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.240 group come into this? At what point do you say, hey, 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:04.920 we need more money if we're going to grow, which 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.360 I presume is what brought you to Yeah, so we 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.679 have been in a very fortunate position. Um, we've turned 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.440 down multiple investors over the last five years because we 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.160 haven't needed money. We've frankly making games as cheap. You 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.280 just have to come up with the right ideas and 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.920 have the right marketing tools in place. UM, for me, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.080 the game design, my partner Matt, who does all the 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.120 art and has a huge marketing push through the oatmeal, 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.120 we really haven't needed very much else. We have an 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.679 incredible team, and so we thought, let's just keep doing this. 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.959 We don't need investors. And then the Churning group showed 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.800 up and they said they had a really interesting pitch. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.000 They said, you guys have built this thing as big 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.599 as you can. You are the biggest gaming company in 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.640 the world. Uh, card game company in the world, and 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.600 you've grown this through hit after hit after hit, and 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.000 that's You're going to keep doing that, but you're not 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.319 going to see exponential growth. The next phase is is 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.480 to turn this from a product into a brand, and 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.680 that means movies and TV shows and theme parks and 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.120 all the stuff that you have no idea how to 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.280 do and we are very very good at And I 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.079 kind of scratch my head and thought, you know, that's 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.200 a really strong argument. I don't know how to do 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.640 any of that stuff, and clearly it's the next step. 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.640 So uh, we started talking with them and got her 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.120 worked our way into some negotiations, and uh, they wanted 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.560 to put thirty million dollars in in order to help 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.760 us turn this thing into a brand. You know. For 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.640 those who don't know Turning Group, the investments that they 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.480 put out there tend to end up at the hottest companies. 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:43.559 Look what just happened with Barstool Sports. Uh. The question is, though, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.080 is how soon are we going to see sort of 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.960 the impact of this investment? UM you know, is is 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.880 an Exploding Kitten's animated show coming on next week somewhere 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.800 or what we are We're exploding nothing next week, but 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.600 we are exploring all kinds of stuff. We are exploring 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.480 television and movies. A much easier way to think about 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.160 this and the reason that we are attractive to churnon 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:13.760 is UM. Brand creation is usually done through something small, 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.160 accelerated and then grown into something very very big. Marvel, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.360 for me, is the perfect example of that. Right, very cheap, 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.319 easy to make comic books years and years and years ago, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.719 which now is one of the biggest media empires there is, right, 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.120 But it's because they create very compelling characters, they tell 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.240 really good stories. You fall in love with those characters 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.319 and stories, and so when they are able to bring 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.840 them to life on a much larger scale. The audience 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:46.480 comes right along for that ride. The investment came to 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.800 us because Churnon thinks as as we do, the games 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.439 might be an interesting opportunity for that same formula, very 0:12:54.520 --> 0:13:00.000 cheap to make its ink on cardboard. Uh, really amazing characters. Um, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.920 were those characters come into your home, they come to life, 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:05.800 You fall in love with them, you laugh, You have 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:10.240 this incredible time, and what if we use that as 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.760 the seed to start growing that forest and start planting 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.480 these things that could grow into the next amazing TV show, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.640 the next amazing movie. Um. The good news is these 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.520 are so much easier to make than starting a movie 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.640 or a TV show from scratch. So we're going to 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.439 be trying a bunch of them, and we're gonna be 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.200 going in a whole bunch of different directions. None of 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.320 them will be that surprising, but they will all be 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.720 based on a very cheap, very easy bet that we 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.040 made five years ago, which is, here's a card game 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:40.880 that we love and we think you'll love it too. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.680 Have to note some irony here, a company that was 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.200 rooted in your effort to get away from screen seems 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.440 to becoming full circle. I know, Um, the way I 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.280 look at it is we all our games are uh 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.400 anti screen, and and the reason is again because we 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.400 want people to come together with their friends and family 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.880 and have fun. But we get to a certain point 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.280 where we've hit as many people as we can, and 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.760 in order to broaden that audience, we have to go 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.040 where those eyeballs are, and so we've done things like 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.680 we made an app for the iPhone and Android, even 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.560 though we thought we never want to touch screens, but 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:23.280 we made this really really beautiful app that it requires 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.440 you to play with your friends, and so, uh, your 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.160 friend that's out traveling, you're we We actually got so 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:33.040 many requests from people, um in the military who wanted 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.120 to play the card game, but you know, they were 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.480 stationed somewhere remote and didn't have the cards with them, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.400 and so initially we made that app to help them 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.440 and to let them play with their family back at 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.520 home and connect and have a good time even though 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.400 they were remote. So we're less anti screen than we 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.280 used to be. I agree it's very ironic upcoming full 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.880 circle on it, but ultimately it is all it is 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.800 all to lend a hand to that effort of let's 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.480 bring people together, let's celebrate each other. I wonder, though, 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.280 if not even a few years from now, your company 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:09.040 will be known more for I P on screens than 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:13.480 the coreboard product. Does that trouble you? Um? I think 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.120 that is inevitably true. It's just the world we live in. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.280 What we can do uh through gaining that popularity, though, 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.920 is constantly push people back to our roots, to the 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.880 fundamentals of why we're here and why we started this company. UM. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.800 A question I get asked a lot is why are 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.400 our games good? What? What is the secret to making 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.440 a good game? And the secret to making a good 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.880 game is the same secret to building this whole whole company, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:43.160 which is, don't make games that are entertaining, make games 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.520 that make the people you're playing with entertaining. And if 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.600 we can remind people of that that the people around 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.800 them are the entertainment. Uh. And these are just the 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.000 tools be at a card game, be at a TV show. 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.120 If we can constantly push people to those things, then 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.960 I think we've still succeeded, even though we're starting to 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.160 involve screens. Another extension to the brand that you had 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:12.280 coming up was an actual fan convention based on your 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.120 I p based on the whole gaming world. I understand 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.800 has been some changes now, but tell us about it. Yeah, 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.040 it's a tricky world out there right now. So we 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.640 decided that, um, if we were going to constantly promote 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.800 these games and constant promote people coming together, why not 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.360 throw and host the World's Best Game Night A a 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.000 festival of games. See new games that you've never seen before. 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:39.240 Everybody come together, show off your prototypes, show off your artwork, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.560 form new companies, make your own new stuff. We are 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.840 going to fill a room with the most amazing, crazy 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.160 stuff that you've ever seen. It's the convention that we've 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.440 always wished existed, and we rented out the Portland's Convention Center. 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.240 We called it Burning Cat, of course, and of course, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.520 as one does, and we were very excited. This was 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.440 going to launch in just a few months. Um. Of course, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.359 with the current climate, we decided it would be pretty 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.240 responsible for us to ask so many people to travel 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.320 and gather in the same room. So, uh, we are 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.639 officially announcing that, Unfortunately, we're going to postpone it for 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:21.120 one year. Burning Cat will exist in We have spent 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.280 so much money building the props and the events and 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.360 the and the games for this thing. Uh, so we're 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.280 going to invest a little bit more, put them in 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.720 storage for a few months, and then put them back out. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.680 Can you give us a just a sneak preview of 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.119 what a proper two might be, because my guess is 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.439 this is going to be as whimsical as the game itself. Um. Yeah, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.760 we're doing all kinds of crazy stuff. So uh, right 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.000 in the center of the convention, we're building an arena, 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.680 literally stadium seating, a stage, this giant arena that will 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:00.359 host every hour some insane event. We're One of the 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.320 things we're starting to build is a dump tank, but 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:07.000 it's filled with uh sitting on the pedestal are celebrities 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.480 and it's filled with lacrosse, drinking water, sparkling water. We're 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.400 building sumo wrestling, but the suits are these giant furry 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.280 cat costumes. Were building uh an entire golf course, but 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:24.960 it's all uh whimsical basketball instead. Um everything we we 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.360 We've got a climbing wall totally covered in fur. We've 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.080 got like just we kind of took all these classic 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.719 things that we've seen at other conventions and carnivals, uh, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.960 and kind of applied our own little spin on them, 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.120 and UH. The end effect is this just glorious gathering 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.320 of people who want to again have fun, enjoy each other. UH, 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.280 and we serve as sort of the matchmaker for that process. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.199 So when I show up a who am I going 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.639 to see there? Who is exactly the target demo for 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:02.320 the brand. So the target demo is this. We have 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:07.320 two core groups. Um. Mostly our audience is UH and 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:12.280 you even split males and females ages eighteen to thirty four. Um, 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.600 they love our games. They're the ones who are, you know, 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.760 buying pizza and beer and hosting game night. And there's 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.800 millions and millions and millions of them out there, and 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.840 that's who you're going to see there. We have a 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.200 second audience, which we are delighted with, which is their kids, 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.240 the five to sixteen year olds who play games with 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.160 their parents now and we build the games that allow 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:37.119 them to do that. So UH, we're devoting all of 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.320 the second day of the convention to kids. And that's 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.840 where we're bringing out some of the craziest lower barrier 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.879 to entry activities so that you can go there with 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.080 your kids and still have an incredible time. So what 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.600 is the next big release for you guys. Um. It's 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.440 very exciting when when Throw Throw Burrito was up on Kickstarter, 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.399 we had an elite reward tire, like the highest possible rewards. 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.680 Here was this thing that we called the Extreme Edition 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.800 and it was instead of little foam burritos and a 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.320 deck of cards, will give you a deck of cards 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.800 and these giant, like three or four ft tall, inflatable burritos, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.360 two of them, uh, and you throw those around instead. 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.879 So another interesting thing I've learned about what you guys 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.720 did is kickstarters where it all began. But you also 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.480 haven't really left Kickstarter behind either, So what's that about. 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:31.840 So crowdfunding in general is a really attractive notion for us. UM. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.560 When you start a new game, your options are self 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.280 self funded, uh, self publish. It tends to be pretty 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.880 small games, or go to one of the big guys, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.920 Hasbro Mattel. Uh. You know, they pay you a little 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.840 bit of money, they take the lion's share of the 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.520 ownership because they're taking on all the risk. And more importantly, 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.639 very few games go out that way and it's not 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.480 has Browne Matell's fault. They have a small team of 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.240 buyers who have to make some very very focused it's 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.520 every year and I can't possibly get it right, and 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:08.159 there's three or four people. Crowdfunding is such a beautiful 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.520 invention in the world of tabletop because suddenly, instead of 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.600 trying to convince one or two people that your game 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.760 is great, you get to actually show it to the audience. 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.480 You get to say, hey, four million people out there 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.600 who are in this market, here's my game, here's my 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.320 best idea. If you like it, give me the money 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.080 to help me make this thing, and then we will 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.199 all get to develop it together. And that model is 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.680 so glorious because it changes everything. It makes it so 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.679 the actual best games get made instead of someone's guests 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.480 on what the best games are. And we love that. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.040 We love the idea that we can put out a 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.960 game and people will look at it and get attracted 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:48.439 to it and say, I want to help you build that. 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.199 We love the idea that we can put out a 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:51.920 game and someone can scratch their head and say, I 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.240 don't get this, this doesn't seem good enough yet, and 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.720 then we can work to make it better that has 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:02.960 never existed before. And because it builds that community, like again, 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:04.840 I know I sound like a broken record here, but 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:10.160