1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: which we talked with some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety with a 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: name like Exploding Kittens. You know it's going to be 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: an unusual company, but the brand doesn't even begin to 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: tell the strange story of a board game that is 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: clearly on the verge of becoming a whole lot more 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: after landing a thirty million investment from the Churning Group 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: late last year. To find out what they're doing with 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: all that money, I've got company founder and CEO Elon 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: Lee with me today. Thanks for coming in. It's a 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: plus here, Thanks for having me. So what what kind 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: of sick bastard names their company or game Exploding Kitten? 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: Where does that come? I know, I know, you know. 15 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: The original name of the game was Bomb Squad, and 16 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: that seems more taking right, right. So the concept of 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: the game was like, let's have a deck of cards, 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: will have a few bad cards in there, the bombs, 19 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: try to avoid the bombs, and you go through the 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: duck trying to draw as many cards as you can 21 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: while avoiding the bomb. And my business partner Matthew Inman 22 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: who writes and draws The Oatmeal, said, the Oatmeal is 23 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: a comics, an online comic, one of the world's most 24 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: popular comics. In fact, I know it, I know it. 25 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: Shout out to matt over here. Um. He looked at 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: this and he said, hey, you know, being scared of 27 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: the bomb is so obvious. What if instead you were 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: scared of acute, adorable, fuzzy little kitten. And we called 29 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: the game Exploding Kittens. And um, when Matthew Inman of 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: the Oatmeal makes a suggestion, uh, the correct answer is yes, 31 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: let's do that. Um. And sure enough he was right, 32 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: and the thing caught on like crazy. And now we 33 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: have a game called Exploding Kittens, and everybody seems to 34 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: want it. Well, so to the caught on crazy point. 35 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: I I full disclosure. I'm not a big as what 36 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: they call now table top games. I'm going to convert you. 37 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: This is my goal for the day. I'm going to 38 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: show you what you're missing. But so because I'm sort 39 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: of out of touch with that world. What are the 40 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: signs of success that one achieves that merits a thirty 41 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: million dollar investment? Right? Yeah, Well, let's be clear, none 42 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: of us ever saw that coming. So what happens is, Um, 43 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: we really thought this whole thing was just going to 44 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: be a little weekend project, right we I Matt had 45 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: been working on the Oatmeal. I was the chief design 46 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: officer at the Xbox. I just thought, like, we all 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: were really good at our jobs. We know what we're doing. 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: Let's try something different, just for a weekend project. Fun. 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: Will make this little game, put it up on Kickstarter, 50 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: will print out, I don't know, five hundred copies. We'll 51 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: try to raise ten thousand dollars, and if we're successful, 52 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: I'll invite all my friends over. We'll order a bunch 53 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: of pizza and beers, and we'll just pack boxes cardboard 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: boxes in my garage and and that will be a 55 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: really fast, super fast. Uh. We spent a few weeks 56 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: putting the thing together, and uh, in those thirty days, 57 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: we raised almost nine million dollars instead. And so that's 58 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: the first trick, right, Like you get a runaway success 59 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: like this, something that really strikes a chord, something that's 60 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: beautiful and funny and interesting, and everyone who looks at 61 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: it thinks I want to get my hands on that, 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: Like that is a thing I need in my life. Um, 63 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: and then beyond that, over the last five years, since 64 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: the end of that Kickstarter campaign, we've sold more than 65 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: nine million copies of that game. It's in twenty six 66 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: different languages right now. And when something hits that level 67 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: of popularity, Uh, it attracts the attention of a lot 68 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: of big players. Now, if one were to look at 69 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: your resume, you mentioned Xbox, You've worked at Industrial Light 70 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: and Magic. You're I mean a tech Okay, you said it. Um, 71 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: So how does someone I know it was just a hobby, 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: but how does someone with your background come to something 73 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: that seems sort of old fashioned? Um? My whole life 74 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: has been spent making making things for a screen, putting 75 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: kids in front of screens basically, And uh, I did 76 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: that for more than twenty years through the Xbox I've 77 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: done I've run advertising companies, video game companies. I've run 78 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: a clothing company that was heavily screen based. Uh. We 79 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: can talk about what the hell that means sometime. Um. 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: But I finally got to this point where I realized 81 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: I am very much part of the problem. Like every 82 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: time I walk into uh, my my family's house, my 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: cousin's house. Uh, and they're staring at screens instead of 84 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: having a conversation with each other. With me, I'm the 85 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: problem there. And so I decided, what if instead we 86 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: tried as an experiment, the same storytelling, same entertainment, all 87 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: the things that I learned working at places like the 88 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: Xbox and industry, light and magic. What if we applied 89 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: those to something that lets us celebrate each other, uh, 90 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: sit around the table, laugh, eat, make fun of each other, 91 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: form alliances, uh, form betrayals like all that stuff where 92 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: we become the entertainment. What if I built the tools 93 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: to facilitate that. And that's what Exploding Kittens is. I mean, 94 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: you almost describe this, or maybe it's not, almost as 95 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: an act of penance on behalf of your screen based career. 96 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say no to that. Um it's it 97 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: was a lot of years of thinking really hard about 98 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: what are the right tools for storytelling? And now how 99 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: do I make that much much more social so that 100 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: instead of the stories that I tell bringing you away 101 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: from reality, what if they very very much root you 102 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: in reality with the people that are in the room 103 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: with you. And you know, you'll have to forgive me 104 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: for my condescension towards these this tabletop game category. I 105 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: used to call them board games. But the interesting thing is, 106 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me, this whole category is quite a growth story. 107 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: I mean, what am I missing? So I think we're 108 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: just watching the pendulum swing quite a bit. Um. We 109 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: have gone so far into the digital realm that there's 110 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: been a bit of backlash, right people shutting down their 111 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: Facebook accounts and trying to get off of social media. 112 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: And what we're watching now is the pendulum swing the 113 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: other way. What can we do, even if it's just 114 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: once a week, What can we do with our friends, 115 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: with our family? What how do we how do we 116 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: enjoy each other's company a little bit more? And games 117 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: are the easiest possible. Think they're great ice breakers. It's 118 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,119 Speaker 1: sort of that social lubricant um. It'll make you laugh, 119 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: they'll make you creative. Uh, they'll make you form teams 120 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: with other people. And it is kind of the shortest 121 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: route from point A to point B where your goal is, 122 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: let's let's celebrate each other, let's enjoy each other. And 123 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: games have really, really in the last five years ppped 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: up to become the tool by which that is achieved. 125 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: And is there something with the way you guys approached 126 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: this space that made Exploding Kittens resonate the way it has, 127 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: because I wonder if it's the very irreverence of the name, 128 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: which is so different than when I think back to 129 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: my candy Land Monopoly, so, you know, stayed and formal. 130 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: This feels like brand wise, maybe that's why you broke out. Yeah, 131 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: I think that has a lot to do with it. 132 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: I think, Um, traditionally classic board games and card games, 133 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: Monopoly and Uno and all those, we all were raised 134 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: on those. We know how to play them, we understand, 135 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: but but they don't make you laugh. They don't. It 136 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: feels like they are thirty years old, fifty years old. 137 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is because they are thirty 138 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 1: years old and fifty years old. And we really wanted 139 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: to step out and say, um, not that we expect 140 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: this to be successful, but that there is an opportunity 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: here to build the kind of game that we would like, 142 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: a modern take on a car game, and we're gonna 143 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: name it something funny, and the art on every single 144 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: card is going to make you laugh, and the rule 145 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: set is going to be unlike anything you've ever seen before, 146 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: and the instructions are going to be fast, and they're 147 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: going to make you laugh at well as well. The 148 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: very first line of the instructions I'm so proud to 149 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 1: say is stop, don't read these Reading is the worst 150 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: way to learn how to play a game. Instead, go 151 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: to this website, watch our four minute video, and you 152 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: will become an expert that quickly. Everything about the game 153 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: is kind of like, we don't need to think so 154 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: hard about the past and pull all that baggage forward 155 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: with us. Why don't we start fresh because the stakes 156 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: are so low, let's just give it a try. So 157 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: Exploding Kittens is really only where this has started. You 158 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: have since expanded this into multiple game. Yeah, we have 159 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: six games out on the market right now. Um. The 160 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: latest one is called Throw Throw Burrito, and um it's 161 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: our take on what happens if you mix a card 162 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: game with dodgeball. So such an intuitive right, why did 163 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: I come? But nobody, especially in the in the sort 164 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: of heritage of games, nobody's looking at areas like that. 165 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: And this game is played. It's a fast, crazy game. 166 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: You've got a deck of cards. Everyone's moving cards around 167 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: the table really fast. You're trying to collect a set 168 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: of three cards faster than everybody else. But at the 169 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: same time, there are these cute, squishy foam burritos being 170 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: hurled across the table. So while you're collecting cards, you 171 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: have to duck and dodge and pick them up and 172 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: throw them back and worry about way more things at 173 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: a time than your brain is capable of worrying about. 174 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: And that chaos is where the fun lives. For that game, 175 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: Throw Throw a Burrito has now become the number one 176 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: best selling game in Canada. It is hot on the 177 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: heels of Exploding Kittens, which holds the number one spot 178 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: in the US. And it's really exciting for us to 179 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: see that when we engage our audience, when we challenge 180 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: them to think about games differently and to have fun 181 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: around a table in a new way, they put their 182 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: money behind those things. And so where does the churning 183 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: group come into this? At what point do you say, hey, 184 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: we need more money if we're going to grow, which 185 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: I presume is what brought you to Yeah, so we 186 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: have been in a very fortunate position. Um, we've turned 187 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: down multiple investors over the last five years because we 188 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: haven't needed money. We've frankly making games as cheap. You 189 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: just have to come up with the right ideas and 190 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: have the right marketing tools in place. UM, for me, 191 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: the game design, my partner Matt, who does all the 192 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: art and has a huge marketing push through the oatmeal, 193 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: we really haven't needed very much else. We have an 194 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: incredible team, and so we thought, let's just keep doing this. 195 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: We don't need investors. And then the Churning group showed 196 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: up and they said they had a really interesting pitch. 197 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: They said, you guys have built this thing as big 198 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,599 Speaker 1: as you can. You are the biggest gaming company in 199 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: the world. Uh, card game company in the world, and 200 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: you've grown this through hit after hit after hit, and 201 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: that's You're going to keep doing that, but you're not 202 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: going to see exponential growth. The next phase is is 203 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: to turn this from a product into a brand, and 204 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: that means movies and TV shows and theme parks and 205 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: all the stuff that you have no idea how to 206 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: do and we are very very good at And I 207 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: kind of scratch my head and thought, you know, that's 208 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: a really strong argument. I don't know how to do 209 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: any of that stuff, and clearly it's the next step. 210 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: So uh, we started talking with them and got her 211 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: worked our way into some negotiations, and uh, they wanted 212 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: to put thirty million dollars in in order to help 213 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: us turn this thing into a brand. You know. For 214 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: those who don't know Turning Group, the investments that they 215 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: put out there tend to end up at the hottest companies. 216 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: Look what just happened with Barstool Sports. Uh. The question is, though, 217 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: is how soon are we going to see sort of 218 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: the impact of this investment? UM you know, is is 219 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: an Exploding Kitten's animated show coming on next week somewhere 220 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: or what we are We're exploding nothing next week, but 221 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: we are exploring all kinds of stuff. We are exploring 222 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: television and movies. A much easier way to think about 223 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: this and the reason that we are attractive to churnon 224 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: is UM. Brand creation is usually done through something small, 225 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: accelerated and then grown into something very very big. Marvel, 226 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: for me, is the perfect example of that. Right, very cheap, 227 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: easy to make comic books years and years and years ago, 228 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 1: which now is one of the biggest media empires there is, right, 229 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: But it's because they create very compelling characters, they tell 230 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: really good stories. You fall in love with those characters 231 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: and stories, and so when they are able to bring 232 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: them to life on a much larger scale. The audience 233 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: comes right along for that ride. The investment came to 234 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: us because Churnon thinks as as we do, the games 235 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: might be an interesting opportunity for that same formula, very 236 00:12:54,520 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: cheap to make its ink on cardboard. Uh, really amazing characters. Um, 237 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: were those characters come into your home, they come to life, 238 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: You fall in love with them, you laugh, You have 239 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: this incredible time, and what if we use that as 240 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: the seed to start growing that forest and start planting 241 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: these things that could grow into the next amazing TV show, 242 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: the next amazing movie. Um. The good news is these 243 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: are so much easier to make than starting a movie 244 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: or a TV show from scratch. So we're going to 245 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: be trying a bunch of them, and we're gonna be 246 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: going in a whole bunch of different directions. None of 247 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: them will be that surprising, but they will all be 248 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: based on a very cheap, very easy bet that we 249 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: made five years ago, which is, here's a card game 250 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: that we love and we think you'll love it too. 251 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: Have to note some irony here, a company that was 252 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: rooted in your effort to get away from screen seems 253 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: to becoming full circle. I know, Um, the way I 254 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: look at it is we all our games are uh 255 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: anti screen, and and the reason is again because we 256 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: want people to come together with their friends and family 257 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: and have fun. But we get to a certain point 258 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: where we've hit as many people as we can, and 259 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: in order to broaden that audience, we have to go 260 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: where those eyeballs are, and so we've done things like 261 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: we made an app for the iPhone and Android, even 262 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: though we thought we never want to touch screens, but 263 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: we made this really really beautiful app that it requires 264 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: you to play with your friends, and so, uh, your 265 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: friend that's out traveling, you're we We actually got so 266 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: many requests from people, um in the military who wanted 267 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: to play the card game, but you know, they were 268 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: stationed somewhere remote and didn't have the cards with them, 269 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: and so initially we made that app to help them 270 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: and to let them play with their family back at 271 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: home and connect and have a good time even though 272 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: they were remote. So we're less anti screen than we 273 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: used to be. I agree it's very ironic upcoming full 274 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: circle on it, but ultimately it is all it is 275 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: all to lend a hand to that effort of let's 276 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: bring people together, let's celebrate each other. I wonder, though, 277 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: if not even a few years from now, your company 278 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: will be known more for I P on screens than 279 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: the coreboard product. Does that trouble you? Um? I think 280 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: that is inevitably true. It's just the world we live in. 281 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: What we can do uh through gaining that popularity, though, 282 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: is constantly push people back to our roots, to the 283 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: fundamentals of why we're here and why we started this company. UM. 284 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: A question I get asked a lot is why are 285 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: our games good? What? What is the secret to making 286 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: a good game? And the secret to making a good 287 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: game is the same secret to building this whole whole company, 288 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: which is, don't make games that are entertaining, make games 289 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: that make the people you're playing with entertaining. And if 290 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: we can remind people of that that the people around 291 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: them are the entertainment. Uh. And these are just the 292 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: tools be at a card game, be at a TV show. 293 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: If we can constantly push people to those things, then 294 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: I think we've still succeeded, even though we're starting to 295 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: involve screens. Another extension to the brand that you had 296 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: coming up was an actual fan convention based on your 297 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: I p based on the whole gaming world. I understand 298 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: has been some changes now, but tell us about it. Yeah, 299 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: it's a tricky world out there right now. So we 300 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: decided that, um, if we were going to constantly promote 301 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: these games and constant promote people coming together, why not 302 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: throw and host the World's Best Game Night A a 303 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: festival of games. See new games that you've never seen before. 304 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: Everybody come together, show off your prototypes, show off your artwork, 305 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: form new companies, make your own new stuff. We are 306 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: going to fill a room with the most amazing, crazy 307 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: stuff that you've ever seen. It's the convention that we've 308 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: always wished existed, and we rented out the Portland's Convention Center. 309 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: We called it Burning Cat, of course, and of course, 310 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: as one does, and we were very excited. This was 311 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: going to launch in just a few months. Um. Of course, 312 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: with the current climate, we decided it would be pretty 313 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: responsible for us to ask so many people to travel 314 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: and gather in the same room. So, uh, we are 315 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: officially announcing that, Unfortunately, we're going to postpone it for 316 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: one year. Burning Cat will exist in We have spent 317 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: so much money building the props and the events and 318 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: the and the games for this thing. Uh, so we're 319 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: going to invest a little bit more, put them in 320 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: storage for a few months, and then put them back out. 321 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: Can you give us a just a sneak preview of 322 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: what a proper two might be, because my guess is 323 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: this is going to be as whimsical as the game itself. Um. Yeah, 324 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: we're doing all kinds of crazy stuff. So uh, right 325 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: in the center of the convention, we're building an arena, 326 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: literally stadium seating, a stage, this giant arena that will 327 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: host every hour some insane event. We're One of the 328 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: things we're starting to build is a dump tank, but 329 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: it's filled with uh sitting on the pedestal are celebrities 330 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: and it's filled with lacrosse, drinking water, sparkling water. We're 331 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: building sumo wrestling, but the suits are these giant furry 332 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: cat costumes. Were building uh an entire golf course, but 333 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: it's all uh whimsical basketball instead. Um everything we we 334 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: We've got a climbing wall totally covered in fur. We've 335 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: got like just we kind of took all these classic 336 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: things that we've seen at other conventions and carnivals, uh, 337 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: and kind of applied our own little spin on them, 338 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: and UH. The end effect is this just glorious gathering 339 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: of people who want to again have fun, enjoy each other. UH, 340 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: and we serve as sort of the matchmaker for that process. 341 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: So when I show up a who am I going 342 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: to see there? Who is exactly the target demo for 343 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: the brand. So the target demo is this. We have 344 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: two core groups. Um. Mostly our audience is UH and 345 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: you even split males and females ages eighteen to thirty four. Um, 346 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: they love our games. They're the ones who are, you know, 347 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: buying pizza and beer and hosting game night. And there's 348 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: millions and millions and millions of them out there, and 349 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: that's who you're going to see there. We have a 350 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: second audience, which we are delighted with, which is their kids, 351 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: the five to sixteen year olds who play games with 352 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: their parents now and we build the games that allow 353 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: them to do that. So UH, we're devoting all of 354 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: the second day of the convention to kids. And that's 355 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: where we're bringing out some of the craziest lower barrier 356 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: to entry activities so that you can go there with 357 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: your kids and still have an incredible time. So what 358 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: is the next big release for you guys. Um. It's 359 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: very exciting when when Throw Throw Burrito was up on Kickstarter, 360 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: we had an elite reward tire, like the highest possible rewards. 361 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: Here was this thing that we called the Extreme Edition 362 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: and it was instead of little foam burritos and a 363 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: deck of cards, will give you a deck of cards 364 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: and these giant, like three or four ft tall, inflatable burritos, 365 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: two of them, uh, and you throw those around instead. 366 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: So another interesting thing I've learned about what you guys 367 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: did is kickstarters where it all began. But you also 368 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: haven't really left Kickstarter behind either, So what's that about. 369 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: So crowdfunding in general is a really attractive notion for us. UM. 370 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: When you start a new game, your options are self 371 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: self funded, uh, self publish. It tends to be pretty 372 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: small games, or go to one of the big guys, 373 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: Hasbro Mattel. Uh. You know, they pay you a little 374 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: bit of money, they take the lion's share of the 375 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: ownership because they're taking on all the risk. And more importantly, 376 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: very few games go out that way and it's not 377 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: has Browne Matell's fault. They have a small team of 378 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: buyers who have to make some very very focused it's 379 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: every year and I can't possibly get it right, and 380 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: there's three or four people. Crowdfunding is such a beautiful 381 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: invention in the world of tabletop because suddenly, instead of 382 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: trying to convince one or two people that your game 383 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: is great, you get to actually show it to the audience. 384 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: You get to say, hey, four million people out there 385 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: who are in this market, here's my game, here's my 386 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: best idea. If you like it, give me the money 387 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: to help me make this thing, and then we will 388 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: all get to develop it together. And that model is 389 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: so glorious because it changes everything. It makes it so 390 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: the actual best games get made instead of someone's guests 391 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: on what the best games are. And we love that. 392 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: We love the idea that we can put out a 393 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: game and people will look at it and get attracted 394 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: to it and say, I want to help you build that. 395 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: We love the idea that we can put out a 396 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: game and someone can scratch their head and say, I 397 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: don't get this, this doesn't seem good enough yet, and 398 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: then we can work to make it better that has 399 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: never existed before. And because it builds that community, like again, 400 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: I know I sound like a broken record here, but 401 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: because everything we do is based on celebrating the people 402 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: that you're with, crowdfunding is a way that we get 403 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: to apply those same principles to the actual development of 404 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: a game. And what could be better than that? So 405 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm getting a better sense of the world of this game. 406 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: Who would appeals to? I want to now understand Exploding 407 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: Kittens as a company. Uh, you know, obviously it started 408 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: with just a few of you, but what has it 409 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: grown into? My My guess is your offices are probably 410 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: distinctive in some nature uniquely. So yeah, up until about 411 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, the office was actually 412 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: in my backyard and here in Los Angeles. Yeah, here 413 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. I tried to keep it really small, 414 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: and once we hired our sixteen person, my wife finally said, 415 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: I'm not waiting in line to use my kitchen anymore. 416 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: Get them out of here. So we rented a space 417 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles. We're out up to twenty nine people. Uh, 418 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: moving fast. We hired one more at the end of 419 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: last week, so I had to reduce some math there. 420 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: Um and the office space in general is um. There's 421 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: there's three main areas to our office. One is a 422 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: giant open workspace, lots of yelling, lots of I need 423 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: help with this, who's who's who stole my pencil? You 424 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: know that sort of thing where the goal is all 425 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: of us are wearing so many different hats. None of 426 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: us quite know what we're doing, because we invented as 427 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: we go UM, so there are no private offices and 428 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: everybody has to work with each other UM. The second 429 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: part of the office is our fabrication studio, working with 430 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: UM card games, where you have to make boxes or 431 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: make cards. The process is really slow actually, because you 432 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: have an idea, you send it to China or some 433 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: prototyping facility locally, They build it and they send it back. 434 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: It takes forever. Something's wrong you you go through this 435 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: whole process again, it could take you four or five, 436 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: maybe six months to look at the thing that you 437 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: had in your head. So instead we invested in UH 438 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: three D printers, some scene smals, a glow forge, which 439 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: is a three D laser printer UM and now we 440 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: make our own prototypes in this facility in ten minutes 441 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: and that allows us. Hanging above that is this giant 442 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: neon sign that just has fail fast, and the idea 443 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: is make as much stuff as you can, knowing that 444 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: all of it is going to suck, and that's okay. 445 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: Get through that process because it is at the end 446 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: of that that failing process that you're going to make 447 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: something amazing. Get through the failure as quickly as you can, 448 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: and so we encourage everybody to use that facility as 449 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: often as possible, make all the things, and eventually, hopefully, luckily, 450 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: something beautiful will come out the other end. The third 451 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: space is our gameplay space. Um this started out with 452 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: just my private collection of games and board games and 453 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: card games, and now because of Kickstarter, so many people 454 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: send us their games because they want us to review them, 455 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: they want us to post about them. We get three 456 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: to four games a week at this point, and every 457 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: Friday we order in lunch for the whole team. We 458 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: sit in front of our wall of games, and when 459 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: I say well, I mean fifteen feet tall fifty ft 460 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: wide amounted like so many games you cannot possibly get 461 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: through them all. But we order in lunch and we 462 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: do our best to get through two or three games 463 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: a week because, like everything that I've been saying, if 464 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: if we can work together, if we can celebrate each other. 465 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: If we can understand why this is so much fun, 466 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: then we can create more products like that. And so 467 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: you've got this unique culture it sounds like, and you 468 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: I believe your title is Lord Commander of Fun. Correct, 469 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: everyone happened? That is not actually my title. That is 470 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: a title that a bunch of people have been thrown 471 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: around that I'm doing my best to squash. My title 472 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: is game designer. Okay. Uh. Nevertheless, I assume we're going 473 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: to go from twenty nine employees to maybe three or 474 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: four times that in the coming years. Are you sure 475 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: you could sort of keep that sort of sense of 476 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: culture in place as the growth occur. Yeah, I think 477 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: that is certainly the goal. It is so important to 478 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: me that we all get to hang out in a 479 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: place build things together, because they get better that way. 480 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: And the more I can encourage people to the more 481 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: I can encourage our accounting team to try game design, 482 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: the more I can encourage our art team to learn 483 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: how the manufacturing process works. The more we can all 484 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: get really good at each other's jobs, or at least 485 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: understand really well how they work, the better games we 486 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: can make as a company, because all the parts know 487 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: what all the other parts are doing well. It sounds 488 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: like you're taking a lot of the manufacturing process creative 489 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: processes in house as possible. But I'm curious. We talked 490 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: earlier about you know, burning cat being postponed, the current climate, 491 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: coronavirus being as crazy as it is, does it disrupt 492 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: your business in other ways so much? Unfortunately, most of 493 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: our products are manufactured in China, and here's the perfect story. 494 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: So we're we're figuring out how to print in other 495 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: places now that China is quite problematic. But our new game, uh, 496 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: Throw Throw Burrito has these two foam squishy burritos in 497 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: them that you throw at each other and they're amazing. Um. 498 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: But when China stopped being able to produce anything, we 499 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: suddenly we had to order five thousand copies of that game, 500 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: and we just couldn't know what nowhere. So I sent out, uh, 501 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: some interns to every toy store in Los Angeles, and 502 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: every pool supply store in Los Angeles, and every dollar 503 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: store in Los Angeles and said, get all the foam things, 504 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: all of them, and not only bring them in, but 505 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: let's figure out where the all manufactured. And then we're 506 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: going to cold call every single manufacturer on the planet 507 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: to figure out a solution to this thing. And the 508 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: horribly depressing answer is from China. From China, and that's 509 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: that's devastating for us on a business level because we 510 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: now have a single point of failure. And I didn't 511 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: ever think of a country as a single point of failure, 512 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: but here we are, um but devastating from kind of 513 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: a global manufacturing community where we have lost the ability 514 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: to compete in the toy manufacturing space, we being anyone 515 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: other than China, And that's been hidden for a long 516 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: time and now suddenly we're seeing it. What we're going 517 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: to see in the next few months is you walk 518 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: into Target or Walmart and a certain kind of toy 519 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: is just going to be gone, a certain kind of 520 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: toy that requires Chinese manufacturing because they have the monopoly 521 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: on that. Those shelves are just going to be empty. 522 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: And uh, that supply chain is depleted. Right now, we 523 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: haven't seen the effects of it, but we're going to. 524 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,719 Speaker 1: And I hope that means we can kind of find 525 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: we can sit down and maybe collectively come up with 526 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: some better, more long term solutions, uh, in terms of 527 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: getting the manufacturing out of China, correct, Yeah, or at 528 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: least getting components of it out of China. This is 529 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: something we're exploring heavily right now, is how do we 530 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: make it so that there is no longer such thing 531 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: as a single point of failure. That's not to say 532 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: things will not be made in China, it's to say 533 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: the dependency will not lie on China. This is the 534 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: new reality I think for any and all businesses. But 535 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, bottom line this for me, could your company 536 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: be facing an existential threat here due to this situation? Um, 537 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: there are some games that we will simply not be 538 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: able to produce this year, just at all. And that's 539 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: a shame. And well, we have an enough excess inventory 540 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: that we're okay for a few months. Um. We I 541 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: have also sent out agents to every other manufacturer I 542 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: can think of in Mexico and Taiwan and Poland in 543 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: the UK, and we found solutions. We we have ways 544 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: to to put ink on cardboard and so there's a 545 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: lot of games we can make which will save our company. Um. 546 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: But it makes growth through more creative games very very 547 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: limited this year. Well, I wish you the best of 548 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: luck facing that challenge. Certainly, lots of businesses facing their 549 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: own challenges in this time. But um Elan thanks for 550 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: coming in and talking to us about exploding him. It's 551 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: my pleasure. It's so much fun to be here. This 552 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next 553 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media movers 554 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to the 555 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review in 556 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast let us know how we're doing