1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Oh, it could happen here is the podcast that you're 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: listening to right now. And while we normally talk about 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: it could happening here, if you've been living in France recently, 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: then some of it has been happening to you. I 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: don't know if that's a bad introduction. We're talking about 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: the riots that have recently convulsed large chunks of both 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: European France and some of their overseas territories. So we're 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: gonna be chatting about that. I've seen a lot of disinfo. 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: There's a lot of like people flipping out about guns 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: and stuff, and you know, a lot of bad information, 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: people blaming it on like Ukrainian weapons sneaking over all, 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: that's bullshit. But there's a real fascinating history here and 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: the riots, as much as people specific bad actors have 14 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: attempted to make them into like some new and horrifying thing, 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: it's not just like a oh France b riot and thing. 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: There's like there's like a history. Uh, that's that's pretty clear. 17 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: That explains like why this this happened in France this time, 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: why it happened in two thousand and five, had happened 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: in what the late eighties. 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, seven was I think the other big one in 21 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: this kind of he's happening. Yeah, it's been happened for decades. 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about all of that. Yeah, so so mea, 23 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you take take take the lead here, 24 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: and I'll chime in pr in. 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: Yeah so okay, I guess we should we should basically 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: briefly talk about like before we go into the street, 27 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: like what actually this is so well, I guess it'll 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: be two weeks ago when this goes up. A cop 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: was did like a traffic stop of this kid in 30 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: a car and they just put the put a gun 31 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: through the window and shot him. It's really bad. There's 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: video of it if for some reason you want to 33 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: see a cop sticking a gun in a car and 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: shooting a seventeen year old. It's really bad. This is 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: kicked off like I it's it's okay. It's always difficult 36 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: to like measure how intense a riot is. When it started, 37 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: people were some people saying it was like more intense 38 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: than like two thousand and five one. This is like, 39 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: you know, we've talked a lot about French rioting on 40 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 2: the show. These specific kinds of riots are like, by 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: far the largest and most intense like kinds of riots 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: that happened in France. This is like a significant escalation 43 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: from everything that's been happening, even in the last sort 44 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: of like yeah, seven years, which have been you know, 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: there have been a lot of riots in France recently. 46 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: These are by far the most intense in the time 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: I've been writing this. The police killed a second person 48 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: by Okay, so I'm going to give my account of 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: what I think happens. The French police are going like, oh, 50 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: who can say how this person was hit by a projectile, 51 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: But as best I can tell, they shot a guy 52 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: in the chest with a flashball, which is slash ball 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 2: is like it's effectively a grenade launcher that shoots flash 54 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: bang grenades. Now it's supposed to be like a it's 55 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: a quote unquote less lethal munition. But the thing about 56 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: less lethal meditions is if you shoot people directly with him, 57 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: they die. And they just fucking killed this guy. 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: They're less lethal because they are not meant to be 59 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: shot at people. They're meant to have a dispersal effect 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: when shot near people. If you shoot people with them, yeah, 61 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: they're very much lethal. 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we talked about in the last 63 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: episode that I did about this, there was there was 64 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: another guy who thankfully has regained consciousness but was in 65 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: a coma for several months because he was also shot 66 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: by I think he was shot by a maybe I 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: forget I should have actually looked this up before I 68 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: did this, but he was shot by like a similar 69 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: less lethal munition and he thankfully has survived. This guy 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: did not like they just killed him. The reporting about 71 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: it has been terrible, like the Guardian headlines said man 72 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: struck by man struck by Project ya Let protest, which 73 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: again this guy was shot by the cops like directly 74 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: into his chest with one of these weapons. So it's 75 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: been really bad. And you know O because so again 76 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: understanding if what's happening here to I want to go 77 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: through this. There are sort of like four broad types 78 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: of people who rioted France. So okay, So the first 79 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 2: kind of writer, I think is the one where people 80 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: are like maybe most familiar with, which is like the 81 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: fresh far left like riots a lot. This is mostly 82 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: anarchists some other people, and that's like a kind of 83 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: standard Parisian riot will be these people rioting, you know, 84 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: which we talked a bit about sort of the development 85 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: of the black block in France and the last episode 86 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 2: we did about this. There's you know, there's also sort 87 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: of like more mainstream left like trade union groups who 88 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: will have giant marches and those also sometimes turn into 89 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: riots because they get attacked by the police and stuff 90 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: like that. And those ones tend to be larger, like 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 2: the trade union ones, have more people, but tend to 92 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: be less riety. There's the Side Jean or the Yellow Vests, 93 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: who are mostly people from rural areas who either sort 94 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: of like do roadblocks in rural areas or they come 95 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: into cities and do marches and riots and they riot 96 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: pretty intensely. And these three groups have started to be, 97 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 2: you know, part of what we've been seeing in the 98 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: pension like reform protests and like riots have been these 99 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: groups were starting to work together. But there's another group 100 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 2: of people in France who riot, who are the residents 101 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: of the bon luis. I that's not how you pronounce it, 102 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: God damn it. Okay. Before, before before I did this, 103 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: I looked at how you pronounce it, and I have 104 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: now forgotten it's bonlieu that. 105 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: That's how you well, Okay, I'm not gonna I'm not 106 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: gonna do for you any advice. 107 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, this word, like I have to say this word 108 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: like forty times. 109 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: I can't pronounce French words without doing the which is 110 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: I know, like I'm a child of the post nine 111 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: to eleven era. It's written into my dna. I can't 112 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: help it. Uh, I'm sorry, you guys were right about 113 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: that war, but I still it's still it's still like 114 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: it seared into me as if with a laser cutter. 115 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to try to pronounce it. 116 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: My my my excuse is I'm holding a drudge from 117 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: that time they owned a bunch of Shanghai for like 118 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: a bunch of years. 119 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: So there's actually many fine reasons to insult the French, 120 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: and they're just all things you can go after every 121 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: other powerful white country that ever exists, Yeah, or other 122 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: country for that matter. I mean, France is pretty classic 123 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: classic colonialism in a lot of ways. 124 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we are, oh boy, are we gonna be 125 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: getting into that? Which Actually that that's that's a good, 126 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: you know, a good jumping off by for who these 127 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: people are. So the bun So then I might just 128 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 2: say suburb because I I can't do this. 129 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's it's the French word for suburbs. Suburbs 130 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: in France are different like in the United States, the 131 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: suburb suburbs have been up until at least pretty recently, 132 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,679 Speaker 1: fairly reactionary, like what you might. 133 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: Call it, uh white flight. 134 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of white conservatives lived in 135 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: the burbs. It was kind of like one of the 136 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: reliable areas for Republican votes and stuff in France. Like 137 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: upper income people people with more money are a lot 138 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: more frequently living near the center of town, and the 139 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: suburbs a lot of which were like built specifically for 140 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: like communities of people from from French overseas population who 141 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: were moving to the country. Like they set up like 142 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: public housing and stuff for them. I think the under 143 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: the idea was that if you like moved people over 144 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: in communities into these neighborhoods, it might make integration and 145 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: stuff easier. There's a lot of reasons why this this 146 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: didn't work that I'm I'm, you know, not an expert 147 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: on but like there there were a lot of problematic 148 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: aspects of the execution, including the attitude among the attitude 149 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: that goes back pretty far among a lot of French 150 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: folks that like, well, you know, a positive thing is 151 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: if they just kind of become French and uh drop 152 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: any other aspects of their of their heritage and anyway whatever. 153 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: It's a whole thing. 154 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, suburbs. 155 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: When we talk about suburbs in France, we are not 156 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: talking about like areas where upper middle class people bought 157 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: giant houses, right, Like, that's not what they are. 158 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: These are These are very like they're not they're not 159 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: exactly the same as like American housing projects, but they're 160 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: much closer to that than they are like the you know, 161 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: the sort of American white flight stuff. Yes, and the 162 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: people who live there. There are some white people, like 163 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: white French people who live there, but there's also a 164 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: lot of French people who are like either like pretty 165 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: some of them are pretty recent immigrants. There's a lot 166 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: of people from Algeria, like specifically. And the way that 167 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: like the French understand this basically it is like all 168 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: these people are like black and Buslim and like that, 169 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: you know, Okay, the French are very racist like and 170 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: and this is the thing that like I was in 171 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: academia for a little bit, right, Like, I like thought 172 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: I understood the like average level of racism of an academic. 173 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: Holy fucking shit, Oh my god, I'm gonna I'm gonna 174 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 2: quote for something about the suburbs like that. That's from 175 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: a piece. I'm gonna talk about that pieces a little 176 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: bit because I think it's a really interesting way of 177 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: thinking about like what the attitude in front in French, 178 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: like France is. So this is about the bondlier. The 179 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: French word for suburb is bondlieu, a word derived from 180 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: bannier mite, a bond that is to exclude or banish. 181 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: And this is the thing. This is from a uh 182 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: AN article called the French Autumn Riots teals and five 183 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: and the Crisis of Republican Integration. And this is a 184 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 2: really interesting piece because like half of it is like 185 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 2: pretty reasonable sort of like analysis of how the left 186 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: sort of just like failed and portrayed these people. And 187 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 2: then the other half of it is them talking about 188 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: how like like Muslim people and like people from like 189 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: North Africa have like inherently patriarchal, like reactionary family structures 190 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: and that because of this they can't be like integrated 191 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: to French society. And I'm like, what the fuck, Like 192 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: this is just a random academic and he just like 193 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: sounds like a stormfront guy. It's it's it's fucking wild. 194 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: So I want to talk a bit about how how 195 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: these things came to be because I think it gets 196 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 2: to sort of like you know, what what what what 197 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 2: these places actually are and why these peo writing and 198 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: to do this for you to go back to the 199 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: French conquest of Algeria. So all right, so the French government. 200 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's it's second maybe to the 201 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: Germans in terms of like the brutality of the conquest. 202 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: And honestly, like that's it's kind of a they're both 203 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: so horrific. It's kind of pointless to be like which 204 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: of these is words. These are both like genocides that 205 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: large chunks of the world just decided to pretend it 206 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: didn't happen. 207 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, the thing with the French version of it 208 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 2: is because it's the French, it's like like the actual end, 209 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: the French political end of it is basically like a 210 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: tragic comedy. So I'm gonna tell the stories. 211 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: It's the result of incompetence, and I mean we talk 212 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: about this in our Napoleon. The third episodes behind yeah, bastards. 213 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: But yeah yeah. So like like the official causes balt 214 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: for the French of this war is that the French 215 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: took out all these grain loans under like the Directory, 216 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: and then like under Napoleon from the Algerian government. There's 217 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 2: government was like, hey, are you ever paying this back? 218 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: And the French were just like no. So this ended 219 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: in like a tiff where the governor of Algeria hit 220 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: the French ambassador with the fly swatter, and this this 221 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: led to the French monarchy at this point is led 222 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: by his guy nam Charles the Tenth who's Mike Duncan 223 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: calls him, one quote, one of the great idiots of history, 224 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: and he's like about to get overthrowns. So he's like, oh, 225 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna invade Algeria and this is gonna 226 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: like distract everyone from the fact that everyone hates me 227 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: and they're gonna overthrow me. And this doesn't work right, Like, 228 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: so the French like conquer Algeria, but Charles Theatanta's overthrown 229 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: literally three weeks after this finishes. But the sort of 230 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: crucial thing here is that like the successive French governments 231 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: keep control of Algeria and they you know this, this 232 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: is like one of the places where the sort of 233 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: like modern French racism emerges from. Is there there's this, 234 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 2: you know, the whole invasion is wrapped up in this 235 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: like like monumental layer of race. And that's about like 236 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, we're gonna go, We're gonna free 237 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 2: Algeria from quote like oriental despotism. This is like a 238 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: civilizing mission and we're gonna let you know, and this 239 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: is like this is this is the stuff that you know, 240 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: if you've been if you've seen any like French social 241 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 2: media posts about this like now right, like this is 242 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: the kind of racism they still do, which is they 243 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: like they consider Islam like a backwards culture. It needs 244 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: to be like integrated into French republicanism. And you know 245 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 2: this is yeah, it's this specific kind of French racism 246 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: is very very old. You also briefly mentioned we're gonna 247 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: mostly talk about at Geria here because like a lot 248 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: of the people who end up living in the suburbs 249 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: are Algerian. But like the French had a whole empire, 250 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: they conquered a bunch of parts of like a bunch 251 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: of Western Africa they you know. 252 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was also it's worth noting a lot 253 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: of it was conquered very frequently, very recently. Like yeah, 254 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: it was only in the late eighteen hundreds, I think 255 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: that they solidified their control over Algae. It was kind 256 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: of right in the same period all just kind of 257 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: directly ahead of the the Franco Prussian War that they 258 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: took a lot of Indo China, like this was they 259 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: were kind of later to having huge overseas possessions, but 260 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: unlike the Germans, they made up for it in terms 261 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: of the breadth of their their acquisitions, if you want 262 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: to call it that. 263 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: It gets it gets yeah, working well. Although the one 264 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: thing I think it's interesting about this is like Algeria, 265 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 2: the fresh conquer Algeria after they've lost Haiti, which is 266 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 2: like a very interesting sort of like thing here. But 267 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: like you know, but one of the things that this 268 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 2: gets to is it like the French state, you know, 269 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: like literally did doesn't like it doesn't matter like who 270 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: like in what period of time in French global history. 271 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 2: You get to the straight is just the the French 272 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: state is just structurally anti black, Like it is so 273 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: unfathomably racist and you know, the way this sort of 274 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: plays out in Algeria, right, is like they hold on 275 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: to Algeria for one hundred and thirty years. But one 276 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: of the sort of products of this, right is that, okay, 277 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: so like Algeria is now part of just like the 278 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: French Empire effectively, right, and this means that over the 279 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: over the sort of decades, the French government starts like 280 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: importing Algerian like workers into France because okay, so one 281 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: of the the French carry out basically like a series 282 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: of genocidal campaigns where they just like like progressive different 283 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: French regimes like steal more and more of the land 284 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: that anyone ever in Algeria had until you get to 285 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: a point where Algeria is just effectively a French settler colony. 286 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: And so okay, so they they've displaced all these people 287 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: and they start, you know, recruiting them to go work 288 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: in France. But this this, this becomes a huge problem 289 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: for the French state because you know, now they have 290 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: a bunch of colonized people in France who they need 291 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: to like keep colonized. And in order to do this, 292 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 2: you get like, you know, you get Froucoast boomerang, right, 293 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: where you have these French police that are trained in 294 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: Algeria who are used like against Algerians in France. And 295 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: you know, I've said, I was, well, it's not just 296 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 2: that it's used against Algerians, right, It's used against like 297 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: people from all over the sort of French empire, from 298 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: like northwest Africa, even people who were from Haiti who 299 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: like wound up in France. But this comes to a 300 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: head in nineteen sixty one when there's just one of 301 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: the weirder parts of French history is there's like a 302 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: second coup attempt where all of these officers, these like 303 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: these French officers in Algeria are like terrified the French 304 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: people had voted to like that could have led to 305 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: Algerians getting the ability to like vote over like self rule, right, 306 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: And the French like colonial officers in Algeria go nuts 307 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: over this and they try to overthrow the government and 308 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: it fails. But the result of this is that de 309 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: gaul gets like dictatorial powers in France for like five months, 310 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: and in October of that year, the Algerian National Liberation Front, 311 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: which is like the you know, this is like the 312 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: giant sort of movements of the French, of the algeriannticlonial 313 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: move But like they have this giant protest in Paris 314 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 2: and the police just aren't shooting them. I mean, this 315 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: is this is this is, this is you know, like 316 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: this is not a riot, right, like this is this 317 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: is just like they have a giant piece of march, 318 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: the police start just killing them. They kill several hundred 319 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: Ugurian protesters. They throw their corpses into the Sin. I'm 320 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 2: gonna read this quote from the BBC. One photo captured 321 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: the chilling sentiment of the time, showing graffiti scrawled along 322 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: a section of the Sin's embarkment saying, here we drown Algerians. 323 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: They kill like at least two hundred people, probably more 324 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: than that. They are like they're throwing like children into 325 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: the river to try to drown them. It is fucking awful. 326 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: And the French government, like they deny that this happened 327 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: for decades. The first this massac is in nineteen sixty one, right, 328 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: the first the first like French Prime minister to our 329 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: French president to admit that this happened. Did it in 330 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: like it was I think it was I think it 331 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: was twenty It was fifty years later that the first 332 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: French politician like admitted they did it, and the government 333 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 2: has still never apologized for this. So these are this 334 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: is what the French police are, right, Like they are 335 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: these people they are you know, they're the people who 336 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 2: like a bunch of Algerians did a protest for independence 337 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: and they killed they they they threw their children's corpses 338 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 2: into a river. And this is the sort of long 339 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: range backdrop of like everything that's happening in modern France 340 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 2: like today. Right is the fact that like France was 341 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 2: an empire still like is in a lot of ways 342 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: an empire, and their police are just like unfathomably violent 343 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: and racist. 344 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I think I might say, like, if 345 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: you're American, pretty fath mobly violent race. 346 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah. 347 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: Like it is it is. Yeah, I think that's a 348 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: fair fair Yeah. 349 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 2: If there was ever a reasonable society on earth that 350 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: people could live in, it would be very easy to 351 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: go these this is the most racist thing you've ever seen. 352 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: But unfortunately we all live in hell world, and you know, 353 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: so our metrics are like, is like, have the Brazilian 354 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: police killed more people per capitive in the American police? 355 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, again, it's one of these like we don't need 356 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: to litigate this, Like I think the point is that 357 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: when when people kind of like flip out over these 358 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: images of buildings being lit on fire and shit getting broken, 359 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: and you know, people shooting out cameras or even like 360 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: beating folks you know, in the street as part of 361 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: a riot and freak out about you know, how the 362 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: place has gone to hell. Like violence that exceeds that, 363 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: by by many factors, has been like the norm for 364 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: segments of French society going back as long as the 365 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: United States has existed. So you know, like the the 366 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: the ugliness that you see in the moment of the 367 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: riot is not like it like focusing on that and 368 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: ignoring what what's caused it, like why people have been 369 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: like reached a pitch where they're doing stuff like that 370 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: is kind of an error, an error at least in 371 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: like historical analysis, and I think also an error in 372 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: terms of like the severity of of what we're looking at, 373 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: Like none of like all of the ugly shit that's happened, 374 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: because at least one person was killed by rioters in 375 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: all this, but like all of the ugliness of this 376 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: current set of riots doesn't compare to one boat sinking 377 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean, like and and that those things are 378 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: very much tied together. You know, France has had a 379 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: significant role in why northern Africa is the way it 380 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: is right now and why large chunks of like the 381 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: that continent have endured waves of successive starvation, famine, death, war. 382 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: Like like I want to I want to, like I 383 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: want to just briefly talk about Vietnam for a little bit, 384 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: because sure, I think something that like people don't really 385 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: understand is. 386 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: That like okay, so right, like both in the thirties 387 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: in Vietnam and sort of through World War two, like 388 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: huge portions of the country were starving, and they were 389 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: starving because the French had completely fucked their economy and 390 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 2: was like was taking all of the food and was 391 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: taking all of the resources, and like you know, like 392 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 2: like that's you know, that's a big part of the 393 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 2: reason why the original sort of like war in Vietnam, 394 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: that the French fight happens, right, So it's like it's 395 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: why people like drive them out, is that there are 396 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: like just innumerable people who just fucking starve and die 397 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: because the French colonialists were just like fuck you and 398 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: you know like they they the French Empire. It doesn't 399 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: get as much attention as like the British or the 400 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 2: Spanish or like the Americans. But it was like incomprehensibly 401 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: inhuman in terms of just like the shit that they 402 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: did and fuck them, they lost the en been food, 403 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 2: they'll lose again. 404 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: A well, yeah, I think we should note when it 405 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: comes to the violence of the French police when we're 406 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: talking about how they are very American in the way 407 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: they do violence that is reflected in the statistics the 408 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: French police or the deadliest police force in continental Europe. 409 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: Part of why is that recent law that was passed 410 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen which made it a lot easier for 411 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: French police to be able to fire their weapons specifically 412 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: at people they think might be about to commit a 413 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: serious crime. Part of the reason for the change in 414 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: the law was the oh god, what the charlie hebdo masses. 415 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: There was just this belief that because two police officers 416 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: were killed in that and there was this kind of 417 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: belief among segments of the population that maybe if the 418 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: police had been able to be more aggressive, they would 419 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: have responded more successfully to the shooting. I think the 420 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: existence of the American police and the number of mass 421 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: shootings we have might argue against that. But that's one 422 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: of the things people will say, is why this shooting happened. 423 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, it kind of and I think I think 424 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: it's worth owing the affect of that law. That law, 425 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 2: like it more than doubled the average number of like 426 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: very very specifically, like the number of like North and 427 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 2: West African people who like French people who get shopped 428 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 2: the police doubled. And yes, and depending on the year, right, 429 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: it either doubled or in some cases almost tripled. 430 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been extremely stark the change. It's also worth 431 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: noting that, you know, in two thousand and five, we 432 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: had a huge set of riots in the suburbs of Paris. 433 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: I think it killed one person, and the riots were 434 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: sparked as the result of police were chasing two kids 435 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: I believe they were Algerian French kids, and they wound 436 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: up like hiding from the police inside of a building 437 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: that was part of like one of the trains and 438 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: got electrocuted. 439 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were I think I think what it was 440 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 2: is that they were they were they were like trying 441 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: to they were trying to like go home, and they 442 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: started they like cut they decided to cut through like 443 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 2: a construction site, and someone called the police on them, 444 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: so they were away from the police, and I okay, 445 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: So I've heard different versions of this. 446 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: And I don't think we're ever going to know precisely 447 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: what occurred. 448 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there there was a version that was circulating 449 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: at the time, and now that might be true, but 450 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 2: I don't know about But there's a version of it 451 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 2: that says that, like the police stood there and watched 452 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: these kids get electrocuted, and yeah, that's possible. I don't 453 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: know if that happened, but like a lot of. 454 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: People certainly believed that that had happened. And so yeah, 455 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: and it was not obviously the death of these kids, 456 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: as is always the case when you have riots, this 457 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: bit was sort of helped to catalyze existing feelings. One 458 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: of the things that was sort of uh in. One 459 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: of the reasons why people were angry was that Muslims 460 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: in France at this point in time had essentially zero representation. 461 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, Islam was France's second most 462 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: popular religion after Catholicism. There were seven million French citizens 463 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: of Arab or African origin. They had no representation in 464 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: the National Assembly. Not a single member of the National 465 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: Assembly was a Muslim or even Arab or African in 466 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: their descent, so there was literally no representation. They were 467 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: targeted by the police. These kids die a suspicious death 468 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: and people people riot like like like motherfuckers, you know. 469 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a pretty good set of riots. Yeah, 470 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 2: it was that one the five ones. I can pull 471 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 2: some of the stats on it before I want to 472 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: go back. 473 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: I think I've got some right here. Actually, yeah, at 474 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: least I. 475 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: Think they burned. They earned ten thousand cars, Yeah, multiple 476 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 2: police stations, government ministries like city halls. 477 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, two hundred and thirty public buildings damaged. So it 478 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: was they went pretty hard. 479 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was it was like, you know, 480 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: this is only at the time. This was the biggest 481 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: like unrest in France since nineteen sixty. 482 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: Eight, and it is worth noting some of the differences 483 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: between the government's reaction to the riots we just had 484 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: and to the two thousand and five riots. In two 485 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: thousand and five, the Interior Minister of France, Nicholas Sarkozzi 486 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: called the people involved in the riots scum who needed 487 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,239 Speaker 1: to be got rid of it. Yeah, yeah, it was. 488 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: It was. It was pretty ugly, and there was sort 489 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: of immediate like defense of the police force for their actions. 490 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: It's been a bit different in this most recent case. 491 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: For one thing, Emmanuel Macron immediately like said that the 492 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: shooting was horrible, like the actions of the police were bad, 493 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: which got the police very angry at him. Camera footage 494 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: of the shooting then came out and made it very 495 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 1: clear that this was an execution as opposed to a 496 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: complicated situation, which isn't to like overly defend Macron in 497 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: the administration. You can see just some how things have 498 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: changed in France politically well. 499 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: Going on there is that mccron is just a way 500 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: weaker government than the French government wasn't in like juston five, right, 501 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 2: Like one of the things, you know, So one thing 502 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: I was looking at was so in Jilson five, the 503 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: French deployed eleven thousand police to try to contain it, 504 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 2: and they kind of didn't. But like the stuff that 505 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: happened like two weeks ago, there were forty five thousand 506 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 2: police deployed. So this is I think like it gets 507 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: to like the severity of what's happening, and how scared 508 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: the French state is of it, because you know, like 509 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: the current French government is not very stable. They've been 510 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 2: trying to like they're on you're like, this is like 511 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: the fifth round of like riots that they've seen in 512 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 2: the last like seven years. 513 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which is also evidence that like the police, 514 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: who have largely gotten what they wanted from the government 515 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: in over the last seventeen years or so, have not 516 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: succeeded in at all reducing the severity and in fact 517 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 1: have continued to spark this kind of like these kind 518 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: of riots. 519 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: The other thing that's going on here, right, So partially 520 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 2: it's because the French police are like unbelievably racist. 521 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 522 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 2: The other thing that's going on here is this sort 523 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 2: of I mean, I guess you could call it like 524 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 2: the long rage crisis of capitalism, right, Like youth unemployment 525 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: in the suburbs is forty five percent, and this is 526 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 2: the kind of thing that caused the air of spring, right, 527 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 2: was like you know, you have all of these populations 528 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 2: which are structurally unemployed, right, there's no jobs for them. 529 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 2: What they you know, like they they what jobs they 530 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 2: can get? Are like these just awful, Like you know, 531 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: I'm like Americans are familiar with dogshit service sector jobs, right, 532 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: Like it's like it's that kind of stuff, and you know, 533 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: and this is a product of a lot of sort 534 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 2: of long range like political trends, right It's it's you know, 535 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 2: like capitalisms and spitting people out of the social system. 536 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: The other thing that I think is I think is 537 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 2: really important about these protests is that, like the kids 538 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 2: in the suburbs are like not really connected to the 539 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 2: French left, and there's a reason for that. And the 540 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: reason for that is this movement that happened in nineteen 541 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 2: eighty one. So in nineteen eighty one we got really 542 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: the first of this kind of riots. So you know, 543 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 2: these these suburbs were like mostly these like housing developments 544 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 2: I guess, were mostly built like in the seventies to 545 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: accommodate like a new flow of migrant workers from mostly 546 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: from Algeria, from other places too. And in nineteen eighty 547 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: one you get the first of these riots, and French 548 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: society is like, holy shit, because there's a bunch of 549 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: non white people rioting and they lose their minds. And 550 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: after the first set of riots, which the first and 551 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: the thing, the thing It's I think interesting about this too, 552 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 2: is the initial riots aren't that big, like they're they're 553 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: like pretty small compared to like what has come after. 554 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: Happy riot technology was in its infancy at that point, 555 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: we were still. 556 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 2: Okay, that's slightly unfair, like people people in France in 557 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: that period were pretty good at rioting. It's just that 558 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: like these ones, it wasn't as bad as it was 559 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: going to get. And part of the reason it gets 560 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 2: that bad ist So okay, So the first the after 561 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: the first of these riots, there's this giant there's you know, 562 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: there's an attempt by the French left to like organize 563 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: these people, and they have this they have this thing 564 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: called where movement here, I don't know, it's French, it's 565 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 2: b you are. 566 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: I think we've we've all established that we're not going 567 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: to be impressing anyone with the level of our understanding 568 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: of the French language. 569 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, but you so that they have they have 570 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: this sort of anti racism movement, and you know, they 571 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: they can carry out in one hundred thousand person march 572 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: from Marseille to Paris. But the problem is this movement 573 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: starts to like fail almost immediately. It starts to fall 574 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 2: apart because you know, at this point Midrand, who is 575 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: he's like on and off again as the French Prime 576 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: minister for a lot of the eighties, and Midran is 577 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: from the Socialist Party and his his plan for this 578 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 2: is basically to attempt to co op this movement and 579 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: to turn all of these people who live in the 580 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: suburbs into like a new into a new voter base 581 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: for the French Socialist Party. But the problem with this 582 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 2: is that instead of you know, okay, so the Midran 583 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: does some reforms kind of to like put money into 584 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 2: these communities, but like again, these people are being structurally 585 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: disenfranchised by a combination of sort of French racism, like 586 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 2: the physical urban geography of these of these suburbs, like 587 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: capitalism in general, and you know these are sort of 588 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 2: like macro forces. And I Mida Rand's plan to stop 589 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: the riots is he has he has these summer music 590 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: festivals that like higher unemployed youth that are that are 591 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: that go by the name and I'm not making this up. 592 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: So os receives me, SOS. They're just like this is 593 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: this is our plan to saw the riots. We're just 594 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: gonna have like these like good work. Guys music concerts. 595 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: Now, I think I think you got it. I think 596 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: you got it. 597 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 2: This weirdly, this kind of works for a little bit. 598 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: There is there was a there was apparently a fun version, 599 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: like a better version of that that occurred in in Oregon. 600 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: Uh and like I think it was the nineteen eighties 601 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: when they were, uh they were going to have like 602 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: a Republican convention in town. And so the state governor, 603 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: I think McCall was his last name, was like, Okay, 604 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw a big like music festival like two 605 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: hours south of Portland, and I'm gonna tell the cops 606 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: not to bust people for drugs. But yeah, yeah, but 607 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: different thing. 608 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, this thing. You know, the problem with this 609 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 2: thing is is again, like the point of this is 610 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: not actually to sort of solve the sort of structural 611 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 2: racism of French society or do anything about capitalism. It's 612 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: it's to build a voter voter base for the Socialist Party. 613 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: And you know, after a couple of years of this, 614 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: the people in this movement, like the actual kids in 615 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 2: the suburbs are like, what the fuck, Like our lives 616 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: still sucks. Ship, Like, you guys haven't changed anything. And 617 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: and you know, there's and there's there's a lot of 618 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 2: promises that the French Sovices Party breaks. One of the 619 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: important ones is that they the French Loss Party had 620 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: been promising to let immigrants vote in local elections. And 621 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 2: that's just fucking vanished, right, as't never happened. This is 622 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: part of why there was like, no, there's so little 623 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 2: representation in the French governments. And you know, the actual 624 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: the actual sort of broader goals of this anti Rais movement, 625 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: it fails. And there's a there's an undocumented workers movement 626 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: that sort of comes that like splinters off from it, 627 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 2: but it's completely destroyed by the French business class. And 628 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: you know, France in this point period still has some 629 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: very strong unions, and the unions just like we're like no, 630 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: fuck you like die and just told them to fuck off. 631 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: And from there and from from the betrayal of the 632 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: Socialist Party, and also simultaneously, the other thing that's happening 633 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 2: in the eighties is the rise of sort of like 634 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 2: these French new like the French New Right is like resurgent. 635 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: These guys. When I say the French dw RDE, the 636 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: people are like fucking neo Nazis right, like very very 637 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: very very a bunch of very famous French neo Nazis 638 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: who modern neo Nazis read, appear in this period and 639 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: they start doing there's a bunch of anti immigrant murders 640 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: that are just horrible, and but you know, the state 641 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: is just kind of gone like eh, whatever, like fuck it, 642 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: you guys can die. And so and this has a 643 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: massive impact on the culture of these suburbs, and you know, 644 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: what what the what kind of political possibilities they have 645 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 2: because these people like, like to this day you will 646 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: get people talking about like the Great talked about the 647 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: Great Betrayal and how they got fucked by the Socialist 648 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 2: Party and so like, these people don't like they have 649 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 2: very little contact mostly with the mainstream French left. The 650 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: mainstream French left is, especially the central left is really 651 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 2: fucking racist, like even like the communist parties really fucking 652 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: Part of what was happening here too is the eighties, 653 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 2: the Peri where the Communist Party collapses and you know, 654 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: and so like all of the sort of like the 655 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 2: organized left factions like don't like them. The unions are 656 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 2: like what the fuck are these Algerians, Like fuck them, 657 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 2: they're Muslim, we hate them, h and you know, and 658 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 2: so so the legacy of this is that the government 659 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 2: does some welfare policies and they like try to do 660 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: some job creation a little bit, but this was always 661 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 2: just doomed to fail because these are you know, like 662 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: what like France in this period is de industrializing. And 663 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 2: so the product of this is like you have all 664 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: of these people who are now just unemployed, who were attempted, 665 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: like you know, there's an attempt to integrate them into the 666 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 2: left and left just fuck them, but you know, obviously 667 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 2: they can't. They're not going to go to the right 668 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 2: because the right hates them like even more than the 669 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 2: French left does. And you get these you know, and 670 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: what happens is like these people, these like this masses 671 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: of like precariously employed like unemployed immigrants become this like 672 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 2: massive focus of the French state. And when conservatives take 673 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 2: over in the nineties, like they use them as this 674 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 2: like racist scape guilt for like every problem. They begin 675 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: this like massive authoritarian like campaign against black and Muslim 676 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 2: people and like you know, like we're we're in the US, right, 677 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 2: like we know what that looks like, and you know, 678 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 2: and One of the other things that that starts to 679 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 2: happen is like like the French state and the French 680 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: right like portray all these peoples are like like the 681 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 2: eighties is also the period like you know this this 682 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 2: is this is right after the uh the Iranian Revolution. 683 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 2: There's this like rising fear of like Islamism, and you know, 684 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: and and the way that like the state responds to 685 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 2: this is basically by by going with all these people 686 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 2: are like like Islamist terrorists, Uh, we hate them. All 687 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 2: of all of the jobs programs that have been set up, 688 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: and all of the wolver programs disappear, like the funding 689 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 2: for the music concerts even just vanishes, and all of 690 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: this stuff is happening particularly is particularly intensely in the 691 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 2: early two thousands. And that's that's the old contacts that 692 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: leads up to two thousand and five riots. Is that 693 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: like by by two thousand and five, people who are 694 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: living in these places have seen like like really serious 695 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 2: deteriorations in their standards living in like the last like 696 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 2: four years because these programs are just being destroyed, and 697 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 2: you know, and then you know, when you get these 698 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 2: these protests thats are in two thousand and five, and 699 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 2: there's another very similar thing that happens in two thousand 700 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 2: and seven when the police like crash into two kids 701 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 2: on a motor like a police car crash into two 702 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 2: kids on a motorcycle and kill them. And there's like 703 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 2: there's like a smaller but like very very intense like 704 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 2: series of riots, and then it's kind of weirdly quiet 705 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 2: for a bit, you know. I mean, I might say quiet, Okay, 706 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 2: it's been quiet from the rioting and the French police 707 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 2: keep killing people. One of the things that everyone that 708 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 2: people are talking about in this one is in twenty seventeen, 709 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 2: it came out that the French police just like fucking 710 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 2: raped a teenager and it's fucking horrible. Yeah, And then 711 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: I think leads us kind of into like into the 712 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 2: sort of modern like the thing that's happening right now, 713 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 2: which is that you know, like the kids who are 714 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 2: riding in the street. And I think I think this 715 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 2: is a big part of the reason why it's this 716 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 2: intense is that you know, these are these are like 717 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 2: seventeen and eighteen year olds, right they are they're old, 718 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 2: and they're you know, they're too old to believe in 719 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 2: the sort of like fairy tales of French liberty inequality. Right, 720 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 2: they know what that looks like. They know that it's 721 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 2: like freend Like French liberty inequality means a police baton 722 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: fucking breaking your skull because you were walking down the street. 723 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 1: Right. 724 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 2: But they're also you know, they're seventeen or eighteen, they're 725 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: they're too young to know that they're supposed to be afraid, 726 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 2: and because of that they have, you know, like they 727 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: burn down multiple police stations. Like the rioting has been 728 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 2: just incredibly intense. 729 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: One of the things that has probably been the major 730 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: touchstone people have heard about these riots on social media 731 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: and stuff is, or at least the thing that I 732 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: saw being spread the most was like the fact that 733 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: rioters were using firearms. There's a couple of things that 734 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: I noticed. One was people flipping out over like the 735 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: presence of guns in France. And interestingly, folks on both 736 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: sides of this I think got stuff wrong because people 737 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: on one hand, you had people being like, where the 738 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: fuck did they get guns? Something suspicious must have happened. 739 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: They must have come in from Ukraine, because France is 740 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: a European country, and European countries don't have guns. In 741 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: the civilian population, like, yes, yes, they do. France. Actually, 742 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, France is one of those countries that primarily 743 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: regulates who is allowed to own what kinds of guns, 744 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: as opposed to what kinds of guns can be owned. 745 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: So in France, with the right licensing, you can own 746 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: most of the kinds of firearms that you can own 747 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: in the United States. In fact, in France, if you 748 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: have the proper kinds of permits, you can own something 749 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: like an AR fifteen with a thirty round magazine, which 750 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: you could not purchase in the state of California. Now 751 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: these are these are still very stringent gun control if 752 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: you're going to have because again they split the kinds 753 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: of firearms into category, and the most restricted kind of 754 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: firearms are semi automatic rifles like AR platform guns. If 755 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: you're going to have something like that, you're doing an 756 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: intense background check. You're doing like you're submitting to random searches, 757 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: you know, by the police. Like it's not nearly as 758 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: easy as it is to acquire firearms in the US, 759 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: but there aren't quite a lot of firearms. I think 760 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: you're allowed to own up to like ten magazines per 761 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: gun and a thousand rounds or something like that. That said, 762 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: I don't believe the majority of the guns that we've 763 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: seen on the streets in the riots are normal, legal, 764 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: civilian owned arms. That said, the existence of guns in 765 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: these protests has also been heavily overstated, largely result of 766 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: footage of shit like people shooting out cameras with what 767 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: are actually air rifles that folks just assume our real firearms. 768 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: There's also been shit like there was one video that 769 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: went really viral that was a petrol bomb being set 770 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: off by protesters at a government building and it was 771 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: just blue checks on Twitter. People who pay elon for 772 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: it were spreading it saying, look, people are using RPGs 773 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: in the riots. You know, rioters have rocket launchers. These 774 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: are in some There were a number of folks who 775 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: got tens of thousands of shares and likes claiming that 776 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: this was these were examples of like heavy weaponry from 777 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: Ukraine getting over the US. For one thing, if guns 778 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: were if weaponry was getting out of Ukraine, RPGs are 779 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: not like the thing that people would be psyched to get. 780 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: You can get RPGs in Europe, and you're generally getting 781 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: them from North Africa, right like or from the Balkans. 782 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: You know, there's no shortage of com block weaponry in 783 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: that part of the country, but it was not an 784 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: RPG being used. Well. 785 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 2: It also something I want to talk about a little 786 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 2: bit is that the actual thing, the actual weapon of 787 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 2: the French writers is fire. And this is this is 788 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 2: something they are way better at this than the Americans are, right, Like, 789 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:28,959 Speaker 2: I mean, I saw a video. 790 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely I've seen I kind of. 791 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 2: I saw a couple of videos that were just wild, 792 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 2: like there's so I don't even know how they did this. 793 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 2: Someone had set like one of those like skyscraper tall 794 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 2: construction cranes on fire, and not the bottom of it, 795 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 2: right they set that, They set the cabin on fires, 796 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 2: Like I don't even know how you do that, because 797 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 2: like like did they did they climb up the thing 798 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: like they got like did they set it on fire 799 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 2: and then climbed down will was on fire? Like how 800 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,479 Speaker 2: do you even do that? I saw I saw another 801 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 2: video that was unbelievably funny where a bunch of protesters 802 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 2: like like in front of the mayor of their town, 803 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 2: covered his car and gasoline and lit it on fire, 804 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 2: which was very funny. But like but like you know, 805 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 2: this is this is the thing like fire is. 806 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: Like fire is area denial, right, like yeah that and 807 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: and that's key. Yeah, it's areas avenues of advance. You're 808 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: able to protect your flanks. 809 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 2: And and also also it is it is a very 810 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 2: very good way to like, it is very very if 811 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 2: you if the thing you want to do is destroy 812 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 2: a police station, like lighting it on fire is a 813 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 2: very very good way to do that. And you know, 814 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 2: it's it's very effective. It's like destroying cars too. Is 815 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 2: the everything I think, I think absolutely enough of it. Sure, yeah, 816 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 2: and and and like the everything has been happening is 817 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 2: there's been a lot of looting, but this is I 818 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 2: actually think the most depressing part about these entire riots 819 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 2: is that most of the looting, you know, like I 820 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 2: am pro looting. This is this is like one of 821 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 2: my stances, right, but like, like there is a lot 822 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 2: of looting. That is people looting high end goods that 823 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 2: they normally just would never have access to. Right, That's 824 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 2: not what's happening here. Most of the looting that's happening 825 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 2: here is food and medicine. Yeah, and that is the 826 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 2: most depressing thing. But the fact that people are doing 827 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 2: subsistence looting is like maybe the most depressing thing I've 828 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 2: ever heard in my entire life. 829 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: Like yeah, right, oh god, yeah, I mean it makes sense, 830 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: you know. 831 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like the last like you know, it's the 832 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 2: cost of living crisis, just like and again the fact 833 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 2: that like we're talking about places with forty five percent 834 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:35,280 Speaker 2: youth unemployment, right, like it's the conditions are so unbelievably 835 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 2: bleak that like, yeah, I mean, like this, this is 836 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 2: what happens when you do this to people, is like 837 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 2: they fight back. The other thing I want to talk 838 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 2: about is that a lot of these people are like 839 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 2: one of the things that people focus on is I 840 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 2: actually think it's very funny that there was there was 841 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 2: a guy interviewed in the New York Times who had 842 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 2: like the moderate position on the riots, and their moderate 843 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 2: position on the riots was it's okay that they're burning 844 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 2: police stations, that why are they burning schools? And I 845 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 2: want to talk about the burning schools thing a little 846 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,720 Speaker 2: bit because this is something that gets talked about a lot, 847 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 2: and you know, okay, like this this is you know, 848 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 2: this is the sort of sociological question they get because 849 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,359 Speaker 2: because this is like burning schools has been a thing 850 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,919 Speaker 2: that's like this is this happened in two thousand and five, 851 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 2: happened in two thousand and seven. Even going back to 852 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 2: some of the riots in the eighties and nineties, people 853 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 2: were burning schools. And the reason these kids are burning schools, 854 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 2: right is that most of the people, the people who 855 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 2: are burning these schools are like there are kids who 856 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 2: went to these schools, right, and you know, they were 857 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 2: either in these schools or they just got out and 858 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 2: they realized these schools didn't do shit, right, Like, going 859 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 2: going to one of these schools doesn't lift you out 860 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 2: of poverty. Studying herd doesn't lift you out of poverty. 861 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 2: You're fucked, and you know, and so like yeah, of course, 862 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 2: like of course these people are lighting these are lighting 863 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,240 Speaker 2: their schools on fire, right, They're there, they were attacking. 864 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,720 Speaker 2: They're they're they're like they're they're attacking like the actual 865 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 2: friends like institutions that were systematically set up to fuck 866 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 2: them and one of one of the other, like you know, 867 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 2: and like one of the things that always the people 868 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 2: always talk about it is like why why you you 869 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 2: know this? This you this with American riots too, it's 870 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 2: people ask like why you burning your homes, like why 871 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,879 Speaker 2: why are you burning your own community? And I mean 872 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 2: partificularly with the French suburbs, right, like these suburbs are 873 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 2: a cage. They were built as a cage. They were 874 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 2: built specifically as a cage to contain a bunch like 875 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 2: as as France's way of containing this non white labor 876 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 2: force that they that they imported into the country. And so, 877 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 2: you know, and it's like, yeah, and every every single day, 878 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 2: the bars of the cage are just are fucking getting 879 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 2: are shrinking, right, the cage is shrinking, The walls are 880 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 2: getting tighter and tighter. There's less food, there's less money, 881 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 2: there's less opportunities, and yeah, you know, and some white 882 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 2: people start burning down the cage and and everyone just 883 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 2: is like walking around, going why why are you burning 884 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 2: your cage down? It's your home, But it's still a cage. 885 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,839 Speaker 2: Like the fact that the fact that people are made 886 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 2: to live in the cage doesn't make it any less 887 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 2: a cage. And that's that's why these people are That's 888 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 2: why this was that's why these people are burnt it 889 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 2: because they like they know from you know, just the 890 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 2: experience of their everyday lives of what it's like to 891 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 2: live here, that this place is fucking killing them, and 892 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 2: so you know, they're they they they responded in sort 893 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 2: of the classic French fashion, which is to light it 894 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 2: on fire. 895 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,399 Speaker 1: It is like if the goal was to integrate these 896 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: people into French culture, there's an extent to which. 897 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 2: They work, you know. 898 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, there you go, you know, and you created 899 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: like the beauty of globalization France. Like yeah, I again, 900 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: like in terms of the people flipping out about stuff, like, 901 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: I think it is important to think about to keep 902 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 1: in mind why people are doing this, how bad a 903 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: situation has to be for people who, as you said, 904 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,840 Speaker 1: like burned their houses their homes down around themselves, Like 905 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: when you think about like looting as a function of 906 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,280 Speaker 1: basic survival, like that's the agree to which these people 907 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,799 Speaker 1: have been like stretched out. 908 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 909 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: And the fact that people are freaking out over shit 910 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: like guns, and it's largely honestly when I talk about that, 911 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,800 Speaker 1: largely the reason why is because there's a whole ecosystem 912 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: of mainly largely right wing people like media influencers, a 913 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 1: lot of whom got blue checks as soon as Elon 914 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: offered it because it puts them up higher and the 915 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: search results who started making money in twenty twenty posting 916 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: riot porn from the United States and who are desperate 917 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: to return to those days. So anytime there's disturbances anywhere, 918 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: they're going to try to like what is the most 919 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: you know, Oh, you know, a lot of folks on 920 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: the far left and a lot of folks on the 921 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: right are angry at you know, the US for sending 922 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: weapons to Ukraine. Well let's blame this on that, or 923 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, I want to make some sort of point 924 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,320 Speaker 1: about gun control and pretend that like French gun control laws, 925 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: you know, don't work because some of the rioters have 926 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: old shotguns or aks that got smuggled in from across 927 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean. So I'm going to make it about that. 928 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: But all of which is number one, like calculated in 929 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: order to increase the profit of a specific a specific 930 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of dishonest media influencer, and all of which ignores 931 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: like the humanity of people who are are in a 932 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: desperate situation and acting desperately as a result. 933 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, and I think the everything that 934 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 2: that really pisses me off about this is that it 935 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 2: obscures the actual parts of this that are interesting and 936 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 2: that are you know, like that that are genuinely radical 937 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 2: in ways that I don't like. One of the things 938 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,520 Speaker 2: that they people tried to do in this was like 939 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 2: people tried to break their like their friends who'd been 940 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 2: like arrested by the French state out of prison, and 941 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 2: they they didn't, they didn't. They ended up failing. Because 942 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 2: this is one of the other things that's been happening 943 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 2: is lots of countries have police anti terrorism units, right, 944 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 2: the French have like multiple kinds of them. They also 945 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,280 Speaker 2: have like military police units, but the French were using 946 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,399 Speaker 2: these like anti like like specifically anti terrorism units against 947 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 2: the protesters, and that that's one of the units that 948 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 2: got deployed. I'm pretty sure, if I if I'm if 949 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,959 Speaker 2: I'm if if if if the sources have been reading 950 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 2: are correct, that was one of the things that happened 951 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 2: in this was an anti terrorists. They sent an anti 952 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 2: terrorist need to stop a prison break. And that's I think, 953 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,879 Speaker 2: you know, it's it's a really sort of emblematic thing 954 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 2: of of what the French state is and like where 955 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,719 Speaker 2: it's going. Right, It's like the French Republic was born 956 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 2: from a bunch of people trying to storm a prison 957 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,320 Speaker 2: and it has now gotten back to a bunch of 958 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 2: people trying to storm a prison, and they send a 959 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,800 Speaker 2: bunch of like fucking anti riot, like anti. 960 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: Some of these weird right wingers were like, look, this 961 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: is what happens when you when you let all these 962 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: foreigners into your country that destroy the culture. I'm like, man, 963 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,279 Speaker 1: there's not a goddamn thing more French than attacking a 964 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,879 Speaker 1: prison then attacking your own prison, like that is the 965 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:58,240 Speaker 1: most there, Like these people have literally returned to tradition. 966 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, they make it. They think they've become French royalists together. 967 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,320 Speaker 2: It's just like, oh God, like in shalah, they suffer 968 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:08,279 Speaker 2: the same fate. 969 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: Like I anyway, whatever, it's it's very frustrating the way 970 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: in which like we're seeing kind of I think, I 971 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: don't know, we'll see. I probably shouldn't be such a 972 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,479 Speaker 1: dumer because I don't actually know the extent to which 973 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,359 Speaker 1: all that worked for the uh, the kind of people 974 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: who were attempting to grapple and wrestle these riots into 975 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: something that could make them quick cash. Yeah, but it 976 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,239 Speaker 1: is kind of a reminder that those people are still there, 977 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: that like infrastructure of deceit still exists and every time, 978 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, the next time there's big riots or protests here, 979 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: every time it happens anywhere, that shit is all going 980 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: to spin up. I will say one of the in 981 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,160 Speaker 1: terms of like stuff that worked, the use of pellet 982 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,880 Speaker 1: guns to take out cameras, was it seemed to have 983 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:57,960 Speaker 1: been extremely effective. 984 00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 2: Oh should Okay, there's no other thing I should talk 985 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 2: about that didn't don't doesn't show up on film much 986 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 2: for obvious reasons. But like, one of the most effective 987 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,800 Speaker 2: things that was happening in these riots was people using 988 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 2: cars to break down their fronts of stores. Yeah. And 989 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:11,800 Speaker 2: and the second, the second one that was very effective 990 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 2: was people using like there's a lot of use of 991 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,799 Speaker 2: scooters as like a way to get as a way 992 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,960 Speaker 2: to get like move around really quickly, as a way 993 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 2: to redeploy, as a way to like like as it 994 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,399 Speaker 2: like like you know, Okay. The the thing about these 995 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,560 Speaker 2: protests that is that is really sort of interesting a 996 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 2: lot of ways is like it's what what what? What 997 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,560 Speaker 2: they've basically done, like not not from a sort of 998 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 2: anarchist ideological perspective, but from an organizational perspective, is that 999 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,400 Speaker 2: they've created like a bunch of networks with affinity groups. 1000 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,280 Speaker 2: And so though like the way this stuff is happening 1001 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,160 Speaker 2: is you get a very small group of people who 1002 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,920 Speaker 2: are capable of moving very quickly and they just go 1003 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,240 Speaker 2: do a thing, right, they don't they don't tell anyone 1004 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,279 Speaker 2: else what they're doing. There's no sort of like there's 1005 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 2: there's no sort of like top down central command that 1006 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 2: you can just sort of like stop right. It's it's 1007 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:03,719 Speaker 2: this incredibly sort of dessentized like it's an incredibly sort 1008 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 2: of centralized movement. And the police just like it took 1009 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 2: them like a week like over like about to like 1010 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:19,400 Speaker 2: really like take back control of these places, and you know, 1011 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 2: and like right now with the period we're entering is 1012 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:23,879 Speaker 2: like a period that we saw right after the George 1013 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 2: Floyd uprisings, which is like this is the period where 1014 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,280 Speaker 2: like the police cracks down or like tries to arrest 1015 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 2: a bunch of people right simultaneously. Like, I don't see 1016 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,040 Speaker 2: a world where we don't see another one of these 1017 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 2: in the next like five maybe ten years, because none 1018 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 2: of the structural problems are like all the structural problems 1019 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,399 Speaker 2: with the French state are just getting worse and worse 1020 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,440 Speaker 2: and worse and worse and yeah, you know, at some 1021 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,200 Speaker 2: point someone is like, like I think, I think the 1022 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 2: problem with this and the problem with the French movement 1023 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 2: in general, has been for the last about twenty years, right, 1024 00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 2: there have been a lot of very very similar sort 1025 00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 2: of riots trying to bring down governments and they mostly 1026 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,920 Speaker 2: don't work. But at some point someone is going to 1027 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,839 Speaker 2: figure out something and they are going to do it, 1028 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,320 Speaker 2: and France like could well be a place where that happens, 1029 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 2: just because the state's capacity to do violence is you know, like, well, 1030 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,440 Speaker 2: the state's legitimacy is just purely reduced to its capacity 1031 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 2: for violence. And I don't know, that's not great, but 1032 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,200 Speaker 2: I mean it's it's what's happening. 1033 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know. 1034 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,799 Speaker 2: I hope, I hope. I hope someone beats them, and 1035 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,879 Speaker 2: I hope the people that beat them are better than 1036 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,840 Speaker 2: the current like a pack of murderers, jackals. 1037 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,880 Speaker 1: Speaking of other things that are like a long and 1038 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,839 Speaker 1: proud tradition in French politics. 1039 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, like there is nothing more French than overthrowing the. 1040 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: That's like, yeah, that's like everywhere where. You're like, wow, 1041 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 1: these people suck. I hope they get overthrown and also 1042 00:53:53,760 --> 00:54:03,759 Speaker 1: not by someone worse. Yeah, yeah, no more Napoleon's Napoleon's Bonaparte. 1043 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,799 Speaker 1: That's the plural. All right. Uh well, I feel like 1044 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,400 Speaker 1: are we uh is that us for to? 1045 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think I think that's that's That's 1046 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:13,920 Speaker 2: been our riots. 1047 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,319 Speaker 1: All right, That's been our French Riots episode. Everybody, Uh 1048 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,799 Speaker 1: until next time, I don't know, Maybe acquire and train 1049 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,719 Speaker 1: with a pellet gun. You know, they're easy to get, uh, 1050 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,919 Speaker 1: surprisingly effective legally not firearms. 1051 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,160 Speaker 2: You know, you can like, look the thing they're very 1052 00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,719 Speaker 2: useful for if there's like small animals that are like 1053 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,879 Speaker 2: trying to eat your fucking garden, yep, you. 1054 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: Can use them on that as well, small animals for 1055 00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:38,800 Speaker 1: the government. 1056 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,720 Speaker 2: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 1057 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 1058 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,719 Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 1059 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1060 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,880 Speaker 2: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated 1061 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,960 Speaker 2: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. 1062 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.