1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,159
Speaker 1: I Never Told You, production of iHeartRadio, and today we

3
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,760
Speaker 1: are so excited to welcome health expert, reproductive rights advocate,

4
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,600
Speaker 1: author of best selling book Grown Women Talk, and the

5
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,000
Speaker 1: host of the podcast The Second Opinion, doctor Sharon Malone. Hello,

6
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here.

7
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for having me.

8
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,800
Speaker 1: We're so excited to talk to you. We have so

9
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:43,560
Speaker 1: many questions. Can you introduce yourself to our audience please?

10
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,880
Speaker 2: Yes. I am doctor Sharon Malone. I'm a Board certified obgyn.

11
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:54,880
Speaker 2: I am also a certified menopause practitioner. I'm the chief

12
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 2: medical Advisor at Alloy Women's Health after a thirty year

13
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 2: career in private practice, and you recently a podcaster. You know,

14
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,160
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of things since I left my

15
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 2: practice five years ago, and I don't think anyone can

16
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,360
Speaker 2: accuse me of being in retirement. I hate that word,

17
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,920
Speaker 2: by the way, I hate retirement. I've just pivoted new careers.

18
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,480
Speaker 1: I love that you have done so much and this

19
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,280
Speaker 1: is a This is kind of an interesting pivot into

20
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,760
Speaker 1: the podcasting world with the new show. Can you tell

21
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: us about the podcast and how you got into podcasting.

22
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a really unexpected turn, to be

23
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,160
Speaker 2: honest with you. You know, I was one of those

24
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 2: people who during the great COVID time, I got three

25
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 2: months off from work because you know, I was considered

26
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 2: it's really harsh to be considered non essential. But you know,

27
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 2: I guess pap smears and talking about menopause weren't emergency care.

28
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 2: So I had those three months off and I had

29
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 2: a little bit of time, a lot of time actually,

30
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 2: to re I'm like, you know, is this really what

31
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,040
Speaker 2: I want to continue doing. I loved what I did,

32
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 2: and I you know, and I have no complaints about that,

33
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,720
Speaker 2: but it just seemed like the right time to exit

34
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 2: stage left. And after those three months off, decided to

35
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 2: leave my private practice with no plans in mind. And

36
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 2: then funny things happen when you have a little time

37
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,799
Speaker 2: on your hands. And my dear friend Michelle Obama had

38
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 2: just launched her first podcast, the Michelle Obama Podcast, five

39
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 2: years ago, and she said, you know what, why don't

40
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 2: we talk about menopause? Because we've had countless conversations around

41
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 2: the table, you know this and talking to my friends

42
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 2: and giving my obgin menopause advice, and she said, you

43
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 2: know what, I want to talk about it. So she

44
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,800
Speaker 2: was really one of the first people that openly, I

45
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 2: say first famous people who sort of claimed it and said, hey,

46
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 2: no shame in this game. I'm menopausal and this is

47
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 2: what I do. So that we had that conversation five

48
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:11,239
Speaker 2: over five years ago, and once I did that podcast,

49
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,760
Speaker 2: it sort of opened up a world because you know,

50
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,519
Speaker 2: I'm known here in Washington, but just to my patients,

51
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,799
Speaker 2: and that sort of opened up a new world. That's

52
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 2: how the founders at Alloy, which was just a really

53
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: a startup startup at that point, found me because they

54
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 2: heard me on the Michelle Obama podcast. So fast forward,

55
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 2: Michelle and I did a couple of podcasts and she said,

56
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 2: you know, and I will give her all the credit

57
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: in the world because this was her initiative to say,

58
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,520
Speaker 2: I really want to talk about you know, women's health

59
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 2: and to have a space for that. Would you do it?

60
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 2: And so this has been a long time coming. We

61
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 2: really started talking about it five years ago and it

62
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,120
Speaker 2: just came to Fruition this week and we decided to

63
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 2: do the second opinion. Her show is in my opinion,

64
00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 2: So my show is the opinion makes total sense. It does.

65
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 3: I mean listening to that podcast specifically was phenomenal. Like

66
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,040
Speaker 3: there's so many conversations that aren't had enough. You are

67
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 3: really just on the beat when we need more information,

68
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 3: like with all this disinformation, misinformation and just complete erasure,

69
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 3: especially when it comes to women's healthcare. Yes, this is

70
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 3: such an important topic that's not being talked about enough,

71
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,359
Speaker 3: and so you coming with this podcast is phenomenal. But

72
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 3: I also love the fact that you're talking about menopause

73
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 3: because as a person who is entering into possibly perimenopause,

74
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 3: which I'm still trying to figure out and not even understanding,

75
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,160
Speaker 3: this is something that needs to be talked about even

76
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 3: more in a time where people don't want to understand.

77
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 3: I guess what what do you think when we talk

78
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 3: about like perimenopause and menopause and as it's coming into

79
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,240
Speaker 3: more in conversation, Well, you know, I think.

80
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 2: That as well women generally, we have been taught to

81
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,080
Speaker 2: be ashamed of so many things that our bodies do.

82
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 2: You know, from our periods to nursing. Everything is shameful

83
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 2: and it's been over sexualized or desexualized. I should say

84
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 2: about our bodily functions, and you know it's time to say, yeah,

85
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,799
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about this. Why would you walk

86
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,920
Speaker 2: into perimenopause and menopause with as little information as women do.

87
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,559
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, a generation ago women walked into

88
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,479
Speaker 2: puberty that way. You know, they didn't have any information

89
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 2: about their periods, and then all of a sudden, all

90
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 2: these changes started happening in your body, and then you

91
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 2: start bleeding on top of that, and it was horrifying. Well,

92
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 2: the same thing happens entering, you know, perimenopause, and we

93
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 2: don't prepare women for it. And so when all of

94
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 2: these things start happening and they're you know, the list

95
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 2: of perimenopausal and menopausal symptoms is growing every day. I

96
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 2: think we're up to like thirty four plus symptoms. But

97
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: when they happen and in no particular order, you're shocked

98
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 2: by them, or you think that there's something wrong, And unfortunately,

99
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,600
Speaker 2: because you don't realize that it's all part of a

100
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 2: constellation of symptoms, it is a transition. Women sort of

101
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 2: parcel out their symptoms to different doctors. Oh I'm depressed

102
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,800
Speaker 2: or anxious, Maybe I should be on an antidepressant. Oh

103
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 2: i'm gaining weight, maybe I should see an endocrinologist, and

104
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 2: you see how we treat the individual symptoms without realizing

105
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,960
Speaker 2: that it's all part of a bigger picture. And you know,

106
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 2: the unfortunate thing is not only women who are caught unawares,

107
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,279
Speaker 2: but there is a generation of doctors who have not

108
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,039
Speaker 2: been trained and know how to adequately treat and counsel

109
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,920
Speaker 2: women in perimenopause and menopause as well. And that's the

110
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 2: unfortunate part. When you need the help the most and

111
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,280
Speaker 2: the most trusted source would be your doctor, and your

112
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 2: doctor doesn't know what to do, then you're just really

113
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 2: left out there on your well.

114
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,480
Speaker 1: Yes, and we're going to talk about that more in

115
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 1: a bit because Samantha and I both have recently had

116
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 1: some health issues and we want to be the show

117
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: very open about it on the show, so we'll talk

118
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 1: about that in a second. But I did want to

119
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: One of the reasons we knew this would be a

120
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 1: really good fit to have this conversation with you is

121
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: one thing we do discuss on the show is how

122
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 1: often women aren't believed when it comes to the medical field,

123
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: or in some cases present different symptoms than men do.

124
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 1: And that's what's been kind of long studied or haven't

125
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,559
Speaker 1: been studied at all, and when it comes to certain

126
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 1: condition and how that gets worse when you add other

127
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,520
Speaker 1: intersections like race or sexual orientation and you dig into

128
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: a lot of these issues around these disparities. On your

129
00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 1: podcast with interviews from topics around birth to depression, you

130
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 1: dismiss the symptoms, right, Can you break down some of

131
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 1: this for us as someone who has been working in

132
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 1: this field for decades.

133
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the one thing that I want your

134
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,160
Speaker 2: listeners to understand is this is that the medical profession

135
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 2: generally has been dismissive of women, you know, and it

136
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 2: wasn't until even eighteen fifties that it was even deemed

137
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 2: that the study of women's reproductive issues was even a

138
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 2: thing that was worthy of studying. And unfortunately, it had

139
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,400
Speaker 2: very fraud roots. And that was with Jay Mary and Simms,

140
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 2: who experimented a lot on enslaved women. And unfortunately, you know,

141
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,080
Speaker 2: he gets touted as being this father of gynecology and

142
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 2: the inventor of the field, but there was no knowledge

143
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 2: and no really acknowledgment of the women that he experimented

144
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 2: on on Narka, Betsy and Lucy who are the only

145
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,319
Speaker 2: names that we know that helped him create the field.

146
00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 2: And this man went on to become the president of

147
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,240
Speaker 2: the American Medical Association. He was the founder of the

148
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 2: first women's hospital in New York City. So you know,

149
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 2: that's how we started, you know, so you can imagine

150
00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,320
Speaker 2: there's a lot of bias. There's a lot of not

151
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 2: really understanding the importance and the really and acknowledging the

152
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 2: autonomy of women. You know, women were to be dealt with,

153
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 2: and then if you complained, you were hysterical or you

154
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 2: were it was all in your head and you were

155
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,080
Speaker 2: just behaving badly. You know, women, if you would just

156
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 2: stop all this whining, perhaps you'd feel better. And this

157
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 2: is and that goes from Freud to you know, the

158
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,679
Speaker 2: medical profession, i'd say writ large even to today. So

159
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 2: that's a lot of infrastructure that's been built in that

160
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 2: all of us as physicians have been trained in this

161
00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 2: same tradition of thinking that women make things, or that

162
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,600
Speaker 2: all of our health problems are really psychological problems, they're

163
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 2: not really physical problems, and not looking at the whole

164
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,440
Speaker 2: woman rather than just our separate parts.

165
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yes, and it's very disheartening in some ways that

166
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,839
Speaker 1: we're still having these conversations, and it's also I'm glad

167
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 1: that we are. And yeah, one of the things you

168
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 1: talk about in your intros is being your own best advocate, right,

169
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,720
Speaker 1: And I did recently have a pretty scary medical experience

170
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,959
Speaker 1: where I wished I'd had someone as an advocate, even

171
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 1: if it was me, because it so quickly I turned

172
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 1: it into oh, I'm exaggerating. I was doing the gaslighting myself,

173
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,439
Speaker 1: which I know you talked about in the shows as well,

174
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 1: and Samantha and I have been we've talked about that

175
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 1: where we're so ready to not be believed that it

176
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 1: has to be like I'm about to die before I

177
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: go seek help. Why do you think it's important for

178
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: women to have this information, understand this information, and the

179
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 1: value of having a friend or an advocate.

180
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 2: Well, you know I write about this in my book

181
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,199
Speaker 2: and Grown a Woman Talk, because you know, my book

182
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,720
Speaker 2: is not just about menopause. It is really about how

183
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 2: to navigate and advocate for yourself in a medical system

184
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 2: that oftentimes doesn't see you, doesn't hear you. And so

185
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 2: if you understood a little bit more about how the

186
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 2: system worked and why it is that way, then it

187
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,080
Speaker 2: helps you better advocate for yourselves. And I think the

188
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: biggest myth that we have, and you know I get it,

189
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 2: but you know, there's this notion that the doctor knows everything.

190
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 2: If I feel a certain way and the doctor tells

191
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 2: me it's nothing, then it must be nothing because the

192
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 2: doctor knows more than I do. That's sort of the

193
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 2: nature of the doctor patient relationship. And it's only you know,

194
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,600
Speaker 2: it's only really exaggerated when it comes to women, but

195
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 2: it's that way generally. You know, the doctor knows best,

196
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,640
Speaker 2: not really, so we sort of take a backseat. And

197
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 2: I want you know, I wrote the book with the

198
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 2: intent that you understand enough. Nobody's trying to send you

199
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:20,559
Speaker 2: to medical school. That's not the point. I don't want

200
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,960
Speaker 2: you to argue, you know, differential diagnoses with your doctor,

201
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 2: but I want you to be able to clearly, clearly

202
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,360
Speaker 2: articulate what your issues are and to not leave that

203
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: interaction without having a concrete plan or a follow up

204
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,200
Speaker 2: about what we're going to do about it. Because for

205
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 2: someone to say, oh, you're fine, no, no, no, if

206
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 2: you know that you're not, remember no one is a

207
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 2: better expert of you than you. So if you get

208
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 2: an answer that seems satisfactory to you, and you can

209
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,080
Speaker 2: follow up with that, that's fine, But don't ever be

210
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 2: dismissed and then leave and continue to have that part

211
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,720
Speaker 2: problem and not get it addressed, because that's how, really

212
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 2: how we get into trouble. And I think that that's

213
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:12,080
Speaker 2: how women really disengage sometimes from the medical community, and

214
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,160
Speaker 2: then you go to quackery, you know, because you still

215
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,280
Speaker 2: you still are having whatever the issue is. And if

216
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 2: you don't get an answer there, then trust me, there's

217
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 2: going to be somewhere, somewhere out there in the world

218
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 2: who's going to give you, you know, a crystal amulet

219
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 2: or you know, a magic herb or something, and you

220
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,240
Speaker 2: so want that relief. And that's the point that I

221
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,840
Speaker 2: want to make is that the best your best option

222
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,440
Speaker 2: really is a medical professional know when to leave. You know,

223
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,160
Speaker 2: if someone is not serving you, then you say, all right,

224
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 2: well that was unsatisfactory. You know, I used the analogy

225
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,839
Speaker 2: all the time. I said, you know, if you went

226
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 2: to a restaurant and you got bad service, would you

227
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,199
Speaker 2: continue to eat there? You know, move on? There will

228
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 2: be someone else, or you know, at the very least

229
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 2: give them the the expectation in this interaction that you're

230
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,319
Speaker 2: an adult. You know that you are capable of making decisions.

231
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 2: And let me say this to you that the reason

232
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 2: why I say that the whole concept of a second

233
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 2: opinion even exists is because a lot of medicine is interpretation.

234
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,080
Speaker 2: We may be arguing from the same set of facts

235
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 2: or data, but how that is interpreted may vary from

236
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,520
Speaker 2: one person to another. And so to imply that everything

237
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,360
Speaker 2: or every answer, you know, every problem has one answer,

238
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 2: is not true. So you know, if you you know,

239
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 2: and I said, I'm very liberal about the fact about

240
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 2: second opinions, and when I was practicing, I would tell

241
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 2: my patients, you know, I would tell them, I say, look,

242
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm very clear about what I know and what I

243
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 2: think you know. And I do get to have that

244
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 2: a pain, and it might be, yes, a little bit

245
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 2: more informed than your opinion, but I'll at least tell

246
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 2: you why, and then you get to decide which of

247
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 2: those opinions makes most sense for you. And that is

248
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 2: really the crux of how this relationship has to be

249
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 2: moving forward and not just someone telling you what to do.

250
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 2: You know, we're adults, we're grown women. I don't need

251
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 2: to be lectured to and I don't need to be dismissed,

252
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 2: but I do need to be involved in the most

253
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 2: important thing of all, which is my health.

254
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 1: Oh I wish i'd found you earlier, Saul could have

255
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: helped me.

256
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 2: It's never too late. It's never too late.

257
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 4: Yes.

258
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:53,840
Speaker 1: Yes. Something that is so great about what you're doing now.

259
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 1: What you focus on is accessibility, making healthcare more accessible,

260
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: because it is a lot of it is very complicated

261
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 1: and very intimidating, and so when you're trying to understand

262
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,240
Speaker 1: it as someone outside the medical field, it can just

263
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 1: be so complicated and a lot of the stuff you

264
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 1: talk about on the podcast, it's very complicated, but you

265
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 1: explain it in a way that is understandable, not condescending

266
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 1: at all, very like, Okay, I get this now I

267
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 1: have the facts, and maybe I can understand more about

268
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: what's going on with me or what have you. How

269
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: did you come by that skill and what are the

270
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 1: challenges of it?

271
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm first off, I was a regular

272
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 2: person for a lot longer than I was a doctor,

273
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 2: and I have been on the other side of that desk,

274
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 2: you know, with family members and with friends. So the

275
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 2: one thing that really struck me was that if you

276
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 2: listen to two doctors who talk to each other, we

277
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 2: really do have a different language, you know, and I

278
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: understand what someone's saying, but the person who's sitting there

279
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 2: next to me, that I may be there with a

280
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,120
Speaker 2: family member or a friend, I know that they don't

281
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,920
Speaker 2: understand that. And I think for a lot of doctors,

282
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: they forget that that you're talking to regular people and

283
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 2: that we're using terms and we're saying things and throwing

284
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 2: out numbers and facts and figures that don't make sense.

285
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 2: And so there's a way to have that conversation, but

286
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 2: to have it in regular person speak. And so I've

287
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 2: always just sort of approached how I speak to patients,

288
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 2: how I would speak to another adult who perhaps does

289
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 2: not We don't speak the same language, but I think

290
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 2: I can be an interpreter. I can take doctor speak

291
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 2: and translate it into regular person speak, and it doesn't

292
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 2: mean that that is condescending. You're not speaking, You're just

293
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 2: making sure that people understand what you're saying. And you know,

294
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 2: for those of you who don't know me, I have

295
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,959
Speaker 2: a musical reference for everything throughout my book I have,

296
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: you know, I have a playlist. I have music in there,

297
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 2: and there's a line from the great Erica Badou and

298
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 2: she says, what good do your words do if they

299
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 2: don't understand you? And that's sort of the approach that

300
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 2: I take when I'm talking to patients. You know, I've

301
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,439
Speaker 2: always been of the mind that women are capable women

302
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 2: people are capable of making good decisions for themselves if

303
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,359
Speaker 2: they are presented with facts that they can understand or

304
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 2: options that they can understand. But a lot of people,

305
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,479
Speaker 2: I think, go in and particularly of my generation, and

306
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,400
Speaker 2: before they expect that the doctor's just supposed to tell

307
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 2: you what to do. And now it's a partnership and

308
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 2: you and your doctors should be in this together and

309
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 2: our goals are the same, and it's to you resolve

310
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 2: whatever issues you may have. And you know, and I

311
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 2: think for me as a doctor, there should be an

312
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 2: element of humility. I know what I know, and I

313
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 2: know what I don't know, and when I don't know it,

314
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: then I'm going to make sure that I get you

315
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: to someone that does know it. But I would never

316
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,160
Speaker 2: say because I can't figure it out, that it's unfigure outable.

317
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 2: You know, I may not know the answer, so let's

318
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 2: go figure out where we can get you to someone

319
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 2: that could get you a better resolution than I could.

320
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 3: There's so much in that conversation. I'm like you being

321
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 3: willing to say I don't know. I feel like that

322
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 3: doesn't happen enough in any profession. If someone thinks that

323
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 3: they're a professional, they truly believe then they are the

324
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 3: end all, and not enough people are willing to say

325
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 3: this is wrong. And I think we see that as

326
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 3: a whole when it comes to any kind of system.

327
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,439
Speaker 3: But in the medical field, especially right now, especially as

328
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 3: we're trying to navigate insurances that have monopolies, as well

329
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 3: as the decreasing in meta care and Medicare, or like

330
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 3: what's being covered and what's not. Overall, there's so many things,

331
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 3: especially in the US, I guess we need to keep

332
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 3: that regional in this speak and in this timeframe of

333
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 3: healthcape that we are in that right now, everything seems

334
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 3: like it's getting worse for the normal person, a person

335
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 3: who's covered by the insurance system, whether it be the

336
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 3: affordable healthcare or whether it is Medicare or Medicare. What

337
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 3: do you see are some of the biggest failures that

338
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 3: are happening and what do you think maybe some of

339
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 3: the fixes or are there fixes, Like I don't know

340
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 3: when we're talking about with COVID times we have now telehealth,

341
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 3: but that's slowly slipping backwards, but things like that, what

342
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 3: could be some of those fixes.

343
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 2: Well, I tell you we're at this very serious inflection

344
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: point now just in healthcare, healthcare delivery. Healthcare costs a

345
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,679
Speaker 2: lot of things, and there's a lot that contributes to that,

346
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 2: and that is one. We are facing a current and

347
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 2: increasingly worse worsening doctor shortage. Okay, because we have you know,

348
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: we have now we're in just in my field alone

349
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: in obg I in we're going to be in relatively

350
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: short about five thousand obgy in short. But even that

351
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 2: five thousand doctor shortage is not evenly distributed. There are

352
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 2: over fifty percent of the counties in the United States

353
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 2: that do not have a practicing OBGYN. We have a

354
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 2: shortage of primary care doctors. The aging population, the over

355
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: sixty five group is growing, is the fastest growing demographic,

356
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: and we don't have geriatricians. We don't have doctors you know,

357
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: solely devoted to aging patients. And so the kind of

358
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: care that you're going to get is spotty. You know,

359
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 2: you where you live is going to determine whether or

360
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 2: not you have access to quality healthcare. And even if

361
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 2: you're in a place like New York City or Washington,

362
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: d C. The shortages are here because it's affected by

363
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 2: whether or not you have insurance. There's so many doctors

364
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 2: that are so frustrated with the system and the insurance

365
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: market that they are coming out of the insurance marketplace.

366
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: So you get a really good doctor in there, you know,

367
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 2: and they're frustrated and they're saying, you know what, I'm

368
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 2: not doing this anymore. I'm going to I'm going to

369
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: be a concierge doctor, or I'm going to be fee

370
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: for service. So that bottleneck that already exists because of

371
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: just the changing demographics, it gets tighter and tighter. Women

372
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 2: who are increasingly, you know, a larger percentage of the

373
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: doctor workforce are leaving in droves. Young women who are

374
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 2: in their forties. I at least was sixty two when

375
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: I left. But women who are in their mid forties

376
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 2: are saying, you know what, I'm out of here, I'm done.

377
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: I'm finding another I'm finding an exit ramp, and I'm

378
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: going to do something that's maybe medical related but not

379
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: direct patient care. And that's creating you know, it's creating

380
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: a chasm between the need and being able to meet

381
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 2: that need. So what are we going to do about it? Well,

382
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 2: we can't clone doctors, okay, But I think what we

383
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: can do is realize that this is the time where

384
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: we have the technology and we have the wherewithal that

385
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: we're going to have to alter how we deliver care,

386
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: just like we changed you know, fifty sixty years ago,

387
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: where a doctor used to make a house call. Guess what,

388
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: we don't do that anymore, you know, and patients got

389
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: used to it. Well, now we are. We're sort of

390
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: understanding that there are a lot of things that need

391
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: that can be done in a digital health space. You know,

392
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: not everything requires an in person visit. Yes, there are

393
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: things that do, but the things that don't we're going

394
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: to have to offload that. We're going to have to

395
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: harness technology. We're going to have to use artificial intelligence

396
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: intelligently such that we can meet the needs of our patients.

397
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: And it's going to involve sort of broadening the population

398
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: of healthcare providers. It will be nurse practitioners, it'll be

399
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: physicians assistants, because the point is that you get what

400
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: you need. And doctors do a lot of things, and

401
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: particularly obgi ns. You know, on any given day, we're

402
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: a social worker, we're you know, a psychologist, we're a

403
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: marriage counselor oh yeah, and we deliver babies and do

404
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 2: surgery and we're supposed to talk to you about menopause,

405
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: which is which is a thing in and of itself,

406
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: and to be honest with you, it's just too much.

407
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: And so we're going to have to figure out, you know,

408
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 2: how do we reorganize, you know, how do we get

409
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: more efficient? You know, that's why, you know, when I

410
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: left my practice, I wasn't done being a doctor. I

411
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: was just done working in that particular space. And so

412
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: when I had the opportunity at Alloy to be in

413
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: on the ground floor and to say, all right, if

414
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: we're going to do menopause, how would we reimagine getting

415
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: that care too, and the accessibility to women who need it,

416
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: and to do that affordably. Those were the two missions

417
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: at hand. And I think that we've done that, and

418
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: that's it's just the you know, this is just the

419
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 2: tip of the iceberg. But there's a lot of stuff

420
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 2: that we're going to see in the next few years

421
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: that you know is really going to involve technology. And

422
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: for your generation, who's really you know, you're already digitally

423
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: savvy and you know how to do this. It won't

424
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: be odd to you, just like it was not odd

425
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: to me. Why would I expect the doctor to come

426
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 2: to my house? That would be ridiculous. You know, it'll

427
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: be the same thing. Why do I have to take

428
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: a day off from work and go pay money and

429
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: sit and pay for parking and wait for an hour

430
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: for a doctor to tell me you're fine? Maybe I am,

431
00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: maybe I'm not, But I did I need to do

432
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: all that for that?

433
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, oh pay for parking. That annoys me,

434
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 4: not to know. I don't know why, but that was

435
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 4: just like a ma cherry on top.

436
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: If I heard one more time a patient asked me,

437
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 2: do you validate parking? No, we don't. We don't validate

438
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: park I.

439
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: Will say for our healthcare person that are like they

440
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: told us at the beginning, did you park here?

441
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 4: All right? We can validate like they just didn't. Just

442
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 4: we're already we didn't.

443
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: Oh, if we validated parking, we would like we'd go

444
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: into negative dollars for the visit.

445
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, oh, there's so many things I

446
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: have to ask Let me ask you what your thoughts

447
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: are on medical tourism.

448
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: Oh, you know what, it's it's scary to me.

449
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: Like the way you begin that if it was like, oh, yeah, no, because.

450
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't you know, let me say this.

451
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: Let me tell you this is falls in the category

452
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: of what I think now, what I know right right, right,

453
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: all right, So I would be very wary of going

454
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: to another country. Maybe it's fine, maybe it's not. But again,

455
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: it tells you the that people will go to to

456
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: get care for something because it's so out of hand here,

457
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: you know. And I hate to be the bearer of

458
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 2: bad news, you know, but once the price of something

459
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: goes up, it very rarely goes down, you know. You can.

460
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 2: All you can do and hope for in medicine is

461
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: that we that we put pump the brakes on some

462
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: of it, you know. And maybe but I'm gonna I'm

463
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: gonna go back step farther and I'm gonna I'm gonna

464
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: say something that doctors would probably like not to hear

465
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: me say. But it's true. Doctors have to make a living, right,

466
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 2: I get it right, you know. And unfortunately, this is

467
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: the the vice gript that doctors are in. You go

468
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: to school, you've got a mountain of debt when you

469
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: get out. I mean basically, you get out of med

470
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: school and you've already bought your first house, and it's

471
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: called here's my medical debt, my tuition debt from from

472
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 2: mets school and college. And you're in this this this

473
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 2: constant push and pull with insurance companies. Insurance companies will

474
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: tell you I don't care what you charge. This is

475
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: what I'm going to pay, so you know it maybe

476
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 2: fifty percent it maybe thirty percent of what your charge is.

477
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: So there's this this, this this real economic pressure that

478
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: doctors have. You know, we they're high and let me

479
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 2: say highly trained professionals. You know, they deserve their time

480
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 2: is worth something. But you have someone else who is

481
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: telling you what your time is worth, you know, and

482
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: so many of the medical practice is now. As a

483
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, as a physician, I was not just a physician.

484
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: I was a I was a business. I was a

485
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: small business owner. Our practice was independent. We ran a practice.

486
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: We could make decisions about what days I was going

487
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: to work, what days I didn't want to work, how off,

488
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 2: you know, And it was all sort of based on

489
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: what my particular needs were at that time. And now

490
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: that so many medical practices have been bought by private

491
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: equity groups or they've been subsumed by large universities and

492
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: hospital groups, doctors are no longer in control of their time.

493
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: They're not. So you're being told, now, okay, you're going

494
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: to see this is how many patients you're going to

495
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: see a day, this is how this is what your

496
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: productivity plan is about how you get paid. I mean,

497
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: that's very disheartening for people who have been medical professionals,

498
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: thinking that you're going to have some autonomy and you do.

499
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,959
Speaker 2: Most doctors now that you will see and you can

500
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 2: check this out, most of them are employees, you know,

501
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: or somehow or the other. They're not in control of that.

502
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: So there's a real economic pressure and people will do

503
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: sort of a lot of machinations to around the system

504
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: because the payment the repayment schedule is so complicated that

505
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: there is a tendency to say, okay, well, you're only

506
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: going to pay me fifty percent for this and twenty

507
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: percent for that, so I'll just put as many things

508
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: in there as I can to charge for in the

509
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: hopes that in aggregate it'll end up being just a

510
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: fair price for my time and my work. And those

511
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: are the games that we play with insurance companies. That's

512
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: the game that we play with Medicare and medicaid. But

513
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, no one has yet

514
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: said this makes no sense. You know, why don't we

515
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: decide what's fair, what's accurate, how to do it so

516
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: people don't have to play these games. But who I'll

517
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: tell you who gets hurt by that? Okay, you have

518
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: your insurance, so you go in, you pay, you get

519
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: your copay, or you have your surgery or whatever. The

520
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: insurance company, let's just say they pay me fifty cents

521
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: on a dollar. You, Samantha, come in with the same issue,

522
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: you have the same procedures done, but you don't have insurance,

523
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: or you have insurance has a really high deductible. Guess what,

524
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: you have to pay one hundred percent. You don't get

525
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 2: a discount because I say, well, you know what, this

526
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: insurance company is only going to pay me fifty percent,

527
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: So you pay fifty percent. No, you pay one hundred percent,

528
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: so you see what I mean. So you've got this

529
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: this patchwork system where the people who get hurt the

530
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: most are the people who can afford it the least,

531
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: because these are people who can't afford insurance or for

532
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: whatever reason, you know, are caught in that gap. Maybe

533
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: you're between jobs, and you know, so it's not an

534
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: accident that the number one reason for bankruptcy in this

535
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: country is medical debt because the people that can't pay,

536
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: you know, what are you going to do? You can't say, well,

537
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: that's all right, I'll just die. No, that's not a

538
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: that's not an acceptable answer to that. So you know,

539
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: our system's broken. That's the bottom line. It's broken. It's

540
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: unnecessarily complicated. And you know, the best example that I

541
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: can give you, and you may be too young to

542
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: remember this, but I'll tell you because I remember the

543
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: old in the old days, what's about to happen to

544
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: doctors is what has happened to pharmacies and pharmacists. Okay,

545
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: there was a time in the not too distant past

546
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: when pharmacies were independently owned. You know, you had you

547
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: into your corner pharmacy. The pharmacist there was usually the

548
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: owner of the pharmacy. They are trained professionals. They were

549
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: back there. They weren't just you know, taking a pill

550
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: out of one big bottle and putting in a little bottle.

551
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: They were doing things they knew. They would counsel patients,

552
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: they would actually compound things back there. So it was

553
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: a very different pharmacist that you were looking at now

554
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: and very well respected in the community. Well what do

555
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: you think of now when you think of a pharmacist.

556
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 2: Do you think of they're just back there? You know,

557
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: they're they're working at nay any pharmacies, CVS, Walgreens or whatever.

558
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: They're a technical in your eyes, they're a technician. All

559
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: they're doing you know, what are you doing? It's like,

560
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: how hard could that be? Here and there? And so

561
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: we have sort of devalued the profession, even though those

562
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: people are just as highly trained as the pharmacists, probably

563
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: more so because they have more things to think about

564
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: from fifty years ago. But you don't think of that

565
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: pharmacist at CVS as someone being you know, yeah, this

566
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: person's going to give me some advice and go make

567
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: me something if I can't take it. I used to

568
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: love the pharmacists here because my children, you know, children

569
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: don't like to take yucky medicine. And he would actually

570
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: compound their antibiotics, so it would be bubblegum flavor, or

571
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: it will be this whatever. He would make it and

572
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,239
Speaker 2: loved it. Okay, No, they don't do that anymore, And

573
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 2: so medicine is becoming where doctors, I think doctors time

574
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 2: is devalued. And I don't think doctors. No one went

575
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: into medicine because they wanted to do a bad job

576
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: or be dismissive. But if you were under that pressure,

577
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I've got a patient every fifteen minutes,

578
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 2: then you annie needing more time that may or may

579
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 2: not happen. Or it's just say come back another day,

580
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: you know, and now another parking, another half day off

581
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: from work, just to get your questions answered. There's a

582
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: better way, and we just got to you know, we

583
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: have the tools. We've just got to figure out how

584
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 2: to put it all together.

585
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: Yes, I recently had an experience where I was, I'm

586
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 1: trying to find a doctor, and I was. I went

587
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: to a place near me. There was a sign on

588
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: the window and it was quite long and it was

589
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: about how how they do insurance M M. And I

590
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 1: just remember thinking, yes, there's got to be a better

591
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: way than this, because clearly the doctor's frustrated. I can't

592
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: understand any of this.

593
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: So to this day, to this day, I do not understand.

594
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: There's so much about insurance that I don't understand. I'm like, wall,

595
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 2: what you know you get when you go to a doctor,

596
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: and you get when you fire your insurance and you

597
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: get what's called a EOB which is an explanation of benefits,

598
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: and I call it it's confusion of benefits. I'm like,

599
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, so wait, wait a minute, that didn't

600
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 2: get paid for what? And it is? It is a

601
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: system that is not designed to confuse you. It is

602
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: designed to not pay the doctors in a timely fashion,

603
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: but also to get you. The more you deny a patient,

604
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: then you've got to decide is it worth it for

605
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: me to be on the phone for half a day

606
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: trying to get the answer to this, And increasingly for

607
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: a lot of people, you're like, you know what, it's

608
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 2: not worth it. You know, if it's below a certain amount,

609
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: you're like, whatever, and so who wins? Who wins? I'm

610
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: not gonna I'll leave it at that.

611
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: Well, going back to the technology aspect, because it is

612
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: true that a lot of us have these expensive We

613
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: know how expensive going to the doctor will be, and

614
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: so where do we go. First We go online and

615
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out how serious is this. And

616
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: one of the interesting things of working on this show

617
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: is like, for instance, with heart attacks, we know that

618
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: symptoms for heart attacks look different with women, and so

619
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: I know that going in, but if I can't find

620
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: the great information about how different they look, then it's

621
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: almost just as confusing, if that makes sense, because I

622
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: now I don't know anything at all, and so I'm

623
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,959
Speaker 1: just curious because it's interesting that we've reached this point

624
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: where we know there's a difference, but maybe not quite

625
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: what the difference is. And then on the other side

626
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: of that, when I recently went to the hospital, they

627
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: they told me like, oh, you're too young for this,

628
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: and you're distressed. And that's something you talk about in

629
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: your podcast is the kind of the expectation the doctor

630
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: might have of this, is what a patient of this

631
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: looks like. So can you talk about all of that?

632
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 2: As doctors? This is sort of how we're trained. There's

633
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 2: so much to know and honestly learning an individual requires

634
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: that I have some you know, I have some experience

635
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: with you. You know, I've seen you once. In my practice,

636
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: I had seen patients, you know, I've taken care of

637
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 2: them since high school through menopause. You know, I know

638
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: your mother, I know your children, I know your family.

639
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 2: So I have context, you know, I don't just have

640
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: just a random string of facts about what this looks

641
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: like and what that looks like. I know that you

642
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: annie complain all the time, Samantha, you never do so

643
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: how to interpret what comes in from that? But so

644
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: much of how we make decisions and make diagnoses is

645
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 2: really heavily dependent just upon pattern recognition. You know, I

646
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: have to know that who's at risk for this? You

647
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: know who's at risk for that? What are the symptoms?

648
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: How do they all hang together? But it's a pattern,

649
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: and I have and we have been taught to have

650
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: a picture in our mind of who presents with what.

651
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: And that's just built in bias, because that means that

652
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: just because you don't look like the textbook picture for

653
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: that thing, that you don't have it. And that's what

654
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: we lack is really the context and the ability to

655
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: sort of go beyond this superficial and that's where a

656
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: lot of racial bias really gets built into the system.

657
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: That's where a lot of the gender bias gets built

658
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 2: into the system because you're thinking, well, for time immemorial,

659
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: all we had to base these symptoms on really were men,

660
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, and women weren't even included in clinical trials

661
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 2: until nineteen ninety three, which was you know, I mean

662
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three. My first daughter was born in nineteen

663
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: ninety three, so I'm like, that wasn't that long ago.

664
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: But women weren't included. So a lot of the things

665
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: about how symptoms present in women, we're just really sort

666
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: of understanding that because we never really looked at it

667
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: or paid into attention. And I didn't coin this phrase,

668
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: but you know, it's out. I forget who did. But

669
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: this notion that women are not small men, you know,

670
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: and how we present is very different. We can have

671
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 2: the same condition like heart attacks, and when we talk

672
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: about and this is how biased the conversation is when

673
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: we talk about heart attacks and women in heart attacks

674
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: and men, the language is, well, women have atypical symptoms

675
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: as we present for heart attacks, and it's like, well,

676
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: really are they atypical? Are they atypical? For men, you know,

677
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 2: because you're using that sort of pattern recognition pattern and

678
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 2: putting it on and overlaying it on women, and it's

679
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: not the same. So we are now just becoming aware

680
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: of the fact that women present differently that different points

681
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: of our reproductive lives. I mean, that's why we've had

682
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: so much of an issue with menopause and not understanding

683
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: that menopause in and of itself is not just a

684
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 2: reproductive issue. It's not just the end of your periods yay.

685
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 2: It is a total body experience that has effects from

686
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: your hair to your toes and everything in between. And

687
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: we haven't really taken into account how menopause and the

688
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: change in your hormones affects your body composition, your bones,

689
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: your brain, your heart, you know, whether or not you're

690
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: diagnosed with diabetes. All of this stuff is hormone dependent

691
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 2: and it's different for women than it is for men.

692
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: And then we also, you know, have when you're at

693
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 2: the intersection of gender and race. Then it's even more

694
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: ridiculous because we have a picture in our mind of

695
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: who we think has endometriosis. You know, it's a thin

696
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 2: white woman. We have a picture in our mind of

697
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: you know who has depression and anxiety. We have, you know,

698
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: so all of these little shorthand notes that we use

699
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: will will leave out a lot of people. And that's

700
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 2: what we're really trying to address is to realize that,

701
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: you know, look at the person, not the stereotype, and

702
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: listen to what they're saying. And a lot of time times.

703
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: You know, again that requires time. But we have an

704
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: opportunity and I think a huge opportunity here because if

705
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: we're to address this and how we build these large

706
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: language models for AI, we can either build that same

707
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: bias into the AI or we can take it out

708
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: of that. You know, we can make we can make

709
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 2: the intake race neutral. You know, I don't have to

710
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: look at Samantha and say, oh, well, here's an Asian person,

711
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: and here's a black person, and here's this person. So

712
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: these things, because again it really sort of gets us

713
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: on a path that sometimes is hard to get out of.

714
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: So I think that you know, again, with technology, it's

715
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: a huge opportunity if we build them correctly, because you know,

716
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 2: as we say, garbage in, garbage out, So if you

717
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 2: put the same you know, you put the same thing

718
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: in that what we've been using and what we've been taught,

719
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: you're going to come up with the same uh out,

720
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: which is unfortunate, but we have it's a huge, huge opportunity.

721
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: So you know, I think that the more informed any

722
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: person is coming into a doctor's office, the better that

723
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: interaction is going to be. And you can be informed

724
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: without being aggressive or confrontational. Ask good questions, you know,

725
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: make the doctor think about it well, like, oh, well,

726
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 2: maybe you didn't know that my mother had whatever, or

727
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: my family history. I may not look like a person

728
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 2: who has osteoporosis, but my mother broke her hip and

729
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: she's in a nursing home. Those are the kinds of

730
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: contextual things that sometimes doctors don't have the time to

731
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: ferret out. But if you put them in a system

732
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 2: that takes all that into account, then I think you're

733
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: going to get a better outcome.

734
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: Right, another big caveat if if they train appropriately.

735
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what, and this is where I

736
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: think it's important doctors get involved. You know, don't let

737
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: other people who are developing this who are really all right,

738
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you're out there to make money. Doctors

739
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: are really weird technophobes. Let me say, you know, how

740
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: long how doctors are still complaining about electronic medical records.

741
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: But that's a classic example of what happens when you

742
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: develop a system that doesn't really take into account how

743
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: doctors actually practice this?

744
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 3: Right.

745
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: It's onerous. It's worse now than I think it was

746
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: when you had a paper chart, just simply because you know,

747
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: of all the things that you took into account, you

748
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 2: didn't take into account, Well, how does this fit into

749
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: a doctor's workday? How about you know you may have

750
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: a very thorough chart that you've asked everything, but you

751
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: have to ask yourself, is a doctor every time that

752
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: patient walks into your office and it's a different doctor

753
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: seeing you, are they going to read the fifty seven

754
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: pages that were generated from your her last visit? Probably not,

755
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: you know. So that's why I said opportunity, and I

756
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: urged all my physician friends who said, I said, don't

757
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: let these things get developed without you, right, without taking

758
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: into account the things that we need to fix.

759
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: Right, And that's why it's important to have a diverse group. Yes,

760
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: it is when it comes to being in these.

761
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: Faces exactly exactly.

762
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 3: And then you know, you brought up heart attacks And

763
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 3: I've told the story before, so I'm adopted.

764
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 4: My mother is white.

765
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 3: But at the age late forties, early fifties, she started

766
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: having weird symptoms. I was putting quotes weird in that

767
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 3: like no one could figure it out. She went through

768
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: four to five doctors.

769
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 4: She had like jaw.

770
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 3: Pain, all these other things, and it wasn't your typical thing.

771
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 3: She was not necessarily overweight. And when she finally went

772
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: to a final doctor, they were like, oh, my god,

773
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 3: let's do a scan all these things, and they realized

774
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 3: like ninety four percent of her widow maker of her

775
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 3: heart was clogged as she was on the press, so

776
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 3: having a massive heart attack, and it took months months

777
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 3: for them to even figure this out. Again, this is

778
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 3: like two thousand and five to two thousand and seven,

779
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 3: so not that long ago.

780
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 4: When I say twenty years ago, it sounds like a

781
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 4: long time ago.

782
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 3: But when you put it in context of like in

783
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: the Twin like it was still the two thousands that

784
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 3: they did not understand the modern doctors. So we're from Atlanta.

785
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: She was going through all the specialists in Atlanta did

786
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 3: not understand until like months months later that she was

787
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: about to die.

788
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 4: Like they were like, oh.

789
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 3: Because she was a woman with quote unquote atypical symptoms.

790
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 3: And we know we finally that people are finally starting

791
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: to talk about that, Like we see campaigns coming out

792
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: in conversations about like all these different things. And we

793
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: know a part of that is due to the grants

794
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 3: and the divers of programs that have been out there

795
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 3: because of DEI.

796
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 4: And all these other things.

797
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 3: Now we're watching all these programs slowly come back, even

798
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 3: striking out any programs that have the word women, God

799
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: forbid or of that. Should we be concerned about these

800
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 3: rollbacks when it comes to finally being able to say,

801
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 3: let's study women, let's study people with uteruses.

802
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: Oh, I could not agree more. I mean, we were

803
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: at this we're finally at this inflection point where we

804
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 2: were going to say, wow, we haven't had a study

805
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: of a large scale study on women and particularly postmenopausal

806
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: women since the Women's Health Initiative. And that was almost

807
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 2: thirty years ago that that study was initiated, you know,

808
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: and it was stopped twenty three years ago. Large scale

809
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: learned a lot from that, misinterpreted a few things, So

810
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: there's that. But it was really the first time that

811
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 2: anyone said, Okay, let's look at women let's look how

812
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: women and even a lot of the heart data, the

813
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: cardiac data. The reason why it's so difficult. All right,

814
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: So nineteen ninety three, you've got to include women in

815
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: clinical trials. Okay, But before that, the face of a

816
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 2: heart attack was you know, an overweight black person with hypertension,

817
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: or it was a type a white man you know,

818
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 2: who was in his fifties and sixties. You know, so

819
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: a nice, trim, forty seven year old woman. It's like,

820
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: oh no, it's not it can't be that, because you

821
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 2: don't fit that mold of what we're trying to do.

822
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: But to be able to do that, it really requires

823
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: that when we look at the data, when we look

824
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: at heart when we're evaluating any medication, you including women

825
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 2: women in trials is one thing, but you can't lump

826
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 2: them all together in your results. Because if it works

827
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: really well for men and not so great for women,

828
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: but you smash them all together, it seems like it's working,

829
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 2: you know. And to say that you can't disaggregate data,

830
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 2: and this is sort of where we are now by race,

831
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 2: or we can't disaggregate data by gender. We are losing

832
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: value information because guess what things don't work the same

833
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: in women as they work in men. We do have

834
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: a totally separate hormonal milieu that medications have to work in.

835
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: And that's my fear that even if we have women

836
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: in trials, if you don't separate them and report out separately,

837
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: will lose a lot. And then when it comes to race,

838
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: the you know, the same thing is happening in race.

839
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: It's like when it says if any studies that say

840
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 2: disparities or race or gender or any of the things

841
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 2: that these charged words, then if we're not going to

842
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: study them, then how will we know. I mean, and

843
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: you know, one of my issues that I work on

844
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 2: a lot is that that is the racial disparities in

845
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: healthcare in this country. And they are bad, and they've

846
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: been bad. You know, it's not like this is a

847
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: new situation here. You would think that the disparities and

848
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: all that means is, you know, what is it for

849
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: the majority population and what is it in African American

850
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: name anything, and it's worse. And it's not just maternal mortality.

851
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 2: That's that's the least of the issues in terms of

852
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: the disparity heart attacks, strokes, Alzheimer's, obesity, you know, any

853
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: chronic disease and you can use that same two to

854
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,959
Speaker 2: three times multiplier. We've known this since for as long

855
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: as we have kept healthcare statistics. The only thing that's

856
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 2: happened as we've gotten better at treating things, the overall

857
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: numbers have gotten better for everybody. You know, I mean,

858
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: breast cancer used to be a death sentence, you know,

859
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: seventy five years ago. Guess what it's not now ninety

860
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 2: percent of women who are diagnosed early will live. Yay,

861
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: But guess what. The disparity still exists between black and

862
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 2: white women. And the better the treatment gets. Here's the

863
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 2: little conundrum here. The better the treatment gets, the larger

864
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: the disparity gets between black and white. And that is

865
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: because you don't have access. It's not like you got

866
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 2: some new genes and all of a sudden, you know

867
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: you're doing worse. It's the environment that we find ourselves.

868
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: Is lack of education, is of access to quality care.

869
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: All of those things are far more important than anybody's

870
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 2: racial composition. You could take a poor white person from Appalaysia,

871
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 2: put them, you know, and look at those and say, WHOA,

872
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: those are worse too? Do they have different genes from

873
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: another Scottish American who is living in New York City. No,

874
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: they don't, but the environment is different. And I think

875
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: that unless until we stop blaming individuals or individual racial

876
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: groups for poor outcomes on or behavior. You know, if

877
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: you would just stop doing any number of things, you'd

878
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: be better and just understanding that the problems really exist

879
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: outside the individual and those are the things that we

880
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: choose not to address. Is now that we can't there again,

881
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 2: they're quite figure outable and we've known them forever. We

882
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 2: just do nothing about it. And this is you can

883
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: go through study after study after study from the I

884
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 2: mean when I say the early nineteen hundreds to today

885
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: and those same disparities and the only thing that's changed is,

886
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 2: like I said, the overall numbers down, the disparities still exist.

887
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we do. We've talked about this before on

888
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: the show. There's a lot of moralizing around. Yeah, you

889
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: should if you just ate correctly, if you exercised correctly,

890
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: this is all right on you. I remember my dad

891
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: he was diagnosed with cancer and they told him you

892
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: should have been coming for a check every year, and

893
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: he had been coming in for a check every year,

894
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: like kind of turning it on the patient and Samantha

895
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: and I've kind of talked to about that a lot

896
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: of having bad doctor experiences and trying not to get

897
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: turned off by that. So, as someone who is looking

898
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: for a doctor right now, what are some things you

899
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: think people should look for they're trying to find a

900
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: good doctor.

901
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you, Annie, And it would take

902
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 2: too long to do this, but I have a whole

903
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 2: that's the whole first chapter of my book is how

904
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: do you pick a doctor?

905
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: You know?

906
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: What do you even look at? Where do you go?

907
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 2: How do you evaluate them at? You know? And I

908
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 2: put in it's very actionable items, because here's the other

909
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 2: thing that you say, Okay, we'll go on the internet

910
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: and whatever. But there's so much information. How do you

911
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 2: know what's good information, what's bad information? How do you

912
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 2: know someone someone's telling you to do something and then

913
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 2: someone's telling you to do the exact opposite of that.

914
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 2: So what I did, in addition to giving really on

915
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: crete advice, is that I have references in the back

916
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: of my book and resources, just resources. So I'm like,

917
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: if you're going to go and you want to know about,

918
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: you know, how do I evaluate my doctor? How do

919
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: I check and see, ooh, does this doctor have you know,

920
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty lawsuits out outstanding? You know, do

921
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: they have a dui or any of those things. You

922
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 2: can go to those references and say per chapter and

923
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 2: look at them and say, all right, this is how

924
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 2: I valuate it. But don't discount. Don't discount your gut, okay,

925
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 2: because you can have the most credentialed doctor in the

926
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 2: world who is an apple, you know, and if they

927
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 2: make you feel like, you know whatever and put you off,

928
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: then that's not a good fit. So it's not just

929
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: the credentials. That's a that's a minimum. You know, is

930
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: my doctor board certified? You know? Do they have other

931
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: issues that are outstanding? And then you go from that

932
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: to okay, then what do I feel in this interaction?

933
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 2: And trust it? You know, just like you would trust

934
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 2: anything else. And when you're in a doctor's office, you

935
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: should feel I say, you should feel seen, heard, and

936
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: respect it. And if that's if those three basic things

937
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 2: can't be met, then it doesn't matter where your doctor

938
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: went to med school. It really doesn't.

939
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 3: I haven't thought of that as a process, but now

940
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 3: you're making me think of things about self respecting doctors.

941
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's the minimum. I mean that's the minimum.

942
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 2: I mean we as doctors, no matter how we want

943
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: to see ourselves. We're in a service industry, you know,

944
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 2: and my job is to make sure that your needs

945
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: are met. However that needs to be done. And you know,

946
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 2: and occasionally, and I will say this occasionally, occasionally, sometimes

947
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 2: I will have something or there'll be something that's so

948
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 2: specific that, yeah, sometimes you might need to see that all,

949
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 2: you know, if you've got us, if you've got and

950
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example, my daughter and I happen

951
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 2: to have a lovely neurosurgeon that I sent my daughter to.

952
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: But but sometimes it's like there are people that what

953
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: they do is so specific, you know, And yes, you

954
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: need common things you don't need to see that person for.

955
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 2: But if you have that one thing that this person

956
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 2: is the world export in and you're going to see them,

957
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 2: you know, once or twice and get that resolve, then

958
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: hold your nose and see them. I get. But I

959
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: warn patients before I see them. I'm like, I'm just

960
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 2: gonna tell you he's a little bit of a jerk,

961
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: but we need this fixed. And he's he or she

962
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 2: is the person to fix it. And I say that

963
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 2: sounds very sexist, but it is true. But it is

964
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 2: usually a he who's a jerky Yeah, I said it,

965
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: but you know what I mean. And so that's why

966
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: I said, know your mission. You know what am I

967
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: there for? Is this someone I'm going to spend the

968
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: next twenty years with? And no, you need a better

969
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,479
Speaker 2: person that you have rapport with. But this is something

970
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 2: I'm there for, a specific thing, and this person is

971
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: the best in the world at that thing. Then do

972
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 2: that right, deal with you know, then talk to your

973
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: other doctor later about it.

974
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 4: Look for the results, not necessarily for a pat on

975
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 4: the back.

976
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: I like it.

977
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to tell you this, like having you

978
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 3: on the show is a dream, and obviously you are

979
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 3: a podcaster's dream, especially when it comes to intersectional feminism

980
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 3: and in this conversation, and I know you are now

981
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 3: in this podcasting world. You've been in this podcasting world

982
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 3: for a minute. I mean again, you're with Michelle Obama

983
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 3: talking about so many things. But as you are in

984
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 3: this world officially with your podcast being released, what are

985
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 3: some of the takeaways you have from doing this podcast

986
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 3: and or from the interviews like, have you learned something

987
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 3: new or something that was like stood out to you already?

988
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hope to learn a lot of

989
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: things because, as I said, I don't know everything. I

990
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 2: know what I know, but I have a very low

991
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 2: bar for things that I don't know. I will do

992
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: the vetting for you, because see, I will get the

993
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: experts that I know in trust, and I think that

994
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: there is an opinion that is worth having that. So

995
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: that's the whole purpose of the second opinion. I will

996
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 2: learn things you know about things that I don't treat,

997
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: you know. So it's not just a show about menopause.

998
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: It is about all things women's health. So we will

999
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: talk about gynecologic things, we'll talk about herd health, we'll

1000
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 2: talk about I have a whole show that I loved

1001
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: on GLP ones, because that's something even when I at

1002
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 2: the time I wrote my book, I hadn't really taken

1003
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: care of anyone who was on GOLP one. So I

1004
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: didn't really and I very clear about them. I'm like, I,

1005
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 2: you know, I don't really know it's it's it's not

1006
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 2: my thing. But now I understand some things about GLP

1007
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: ones now talking to an expert that I didn't know

1008
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: going into it, So that's it's going to be too pronged.

1009
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: There'll be things that I want you to know some

1010
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: experts and to see what the experts have to say

1011
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: about it. That's my second opinion. And then as a

1012
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 2: result of that we all get smarter. I'll learn something

1013
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know either, so you know, next time someone

1014
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: asked me, I'll know what.

1015
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 4: You're say.

1016
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: That.

1017
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: Curiosity is so valuable and refreshing too, like going back

1018
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: to admitting what you don't know and what you do

1019
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: know and being very clear about that. And one thing

1020
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: that I got when I was listening to the podcast

1021
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: was I did feel really empowered and validated of like, Okay,

1022
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: so I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm

1023
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: not the only one who has all these questions about this,

1024
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: and maybe we don't have the answers yet, but at

1025
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: least I'm not the only one who's asking these questions.

1026
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: And I think that that's something that I know is

1027
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: important to you, is empowering women people to make these

1028
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: healthcare decisions, to have this knowledge for it to be

1029
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: more accessible. So what is it that you're really hoping

1030
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: people take away from this podcast.

1031
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 2: You know, I am hoping that at the end of

1032
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: every episode that you walk away with something, some knowledge

1033
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 2: you did not have at the beginning, and you'll be

1034
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: able to use that knowledge to effectively advocate, maybe not

1035
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 2: for you, but for your friends. So the next person

1036
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 2: who comes up with that and say, you know what,

1037
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 2: perhaps you should take a look at this because it's

1038
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: so important. And the message I want to give is

1039
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: not to It's not gloom and doom. Oh my god, women,

1040
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 2: we have so much stuff and it's going to be terrible,

1041
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: and you know, getting old is horrible. No, it's not.

1042
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, and you know I don't mind

1043
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 2: saying it. You know, I'm sixty six years old, you know,

1044
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 2: and I've pivoted, I'm doing different things in life. I

1045
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 2: feel as good now as I've ever felt. But I

1046
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 2: also want that to be the expectation. If I say,

1047
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: where do I want you at forty to start thinking

1048
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: about your life as sixty. I want you to think

1049
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 2: of it as something great, not something you know, like,

1050
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 2: oh then what I'm you know. No, don't don't think

1051
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: that the inevitable is decline followed by death. You know

1052
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: it can be, but just know that you have the

1053
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 2: ability to change that trajectory. Regardless of what your family

1054
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: history is and regardless of what your current health situation is,

1055
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,919
Speaker 2: you can make it better. You know, there's never too

1056
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 2: late to start. But I like to get people really

1057
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 2: early in this process and get them invested in their

1058
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: health and making them understand that you know, oh, Okay,

1059
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 2: your mother had breast cancer. I've had two sisters with

1060
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 2: breast cancer. That doesn't mean I'm going to get it.

1061
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: There are I may or I may not, but understand

1062
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 2: the things that I can do along the way that

1063
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 2: minimize my risk. You know, nothing is inevitable. There are

1064
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: very few things that are strictly genetic, very few things,

1065
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 2: and even with genes, how those genes interact in the

1066
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 2: environment that you're in matter. So, you know, I think

1067
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: that overall, the message that I want to have is

1068
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 2: really a hopeful one, and that I want you to

1069
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 2: feel is that, yeah, I feel empowered because the course

1070
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 2: of my health is going to be determined by what

1071
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: I do, not what someone does for me after the fact.

1072
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: You know. So there's a there's a huge prevention message

1073
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 2: that I want people to get, and I think once

1074
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 2: you explain to people why it's important you get complying.

1075
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, people will comply. No one wants

1076
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 2: to feel bad. And I I have always found that

1077
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,959
Speaker 2: to be a much more potent motivator when I'm talking

1078
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 2: to my patients, to tell them why not just do it?

1079
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 2: And then you know what, most of them do they

1080
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 2: hear it.

1081
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: I love that. Yes, And as we said, this is

1082
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: such a needed it has been such a needed conversation.

1083
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: Very glad it's happening right now. And you you seem

1084
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: like someone who has a lot of stuff going on.

1085
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: Do you have any other things on the horizon that

1086
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 1: you're excited about that you want to talk about?

1087
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's enough. I mean, that's fair. I have,

1088
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 2: you know, I have my I continue I still you know,

1089
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: my my my heart is always with the menopausal woman.

1090
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 2: So I love my perimenopause and menopausal work, and I

1091
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 2: will continue to do that with alloy because again, my

1092
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: mission is access and affordability. It doesn't do anyone any

1093
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: good to edge you about all this great menopausal stuff

1094
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: or whatever and then you're like, oh great, and then

1095
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 2: you can't find a new place to go. So access

1096
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: is important to me, and you know, and so I

1097
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 2: will always continue to do that. I hope that the

1098
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 2: podcast is helpful, you know, and that that's my goal,

1099
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 2: because I you know, I have no you know, I

1100
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 2: cannot say that I harbored a secret desire to be

1101
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 2: a podcaster. That wasn't that wasn't on my BINGO card.

1102
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 2: But if it can serve a purpose, then I'm all in.

1103
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 2: And I really want listeners to understand same thing I

1104
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 2: want to hear from them. I want to hear what

1105
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 2: do you want to know about? Because remember, you're only

1106
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 2: going to get that fifteen minute visit in your doctor's office,

1107
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: and only about five to seven minutes of that has

1108
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: spent with the doctor. So what are all the things

1109
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 2: of other than that five to seven minutes that we

1110
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 2: can sort of help expand during this time. And that's

1111
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: really my goal for the podcast. And if I can

1112
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 2: do that, then hey, I've done my job.

1113
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And it's it's such important information because no

1114
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: one teaches you that, no one teaches you how to

1115
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: go to the doctor and what to say and what

1116
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:11,919
Speaker 1: to do, and.

1117
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 2: You know, and we're going to shed all this shame

1118
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 2: and stigma about women and women's bodies, you know, and

1119
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 2: the one thing that I'm really encouraged by is that

1120
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 2: I just did Oh my godness, I did three events

1121
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: in New York this past weekend. And over the years,

1122
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 2: the number, just the appetite for this conversation is growing,

1123
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 2: and women are so grateful to be able to have it.

1124
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,959
Speaker 2: And I'm just amazed at the things that people will

1125
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 2: say out loud. Let me just say, twenty years ago,

1126
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 2: no one would have ever said these things. They'll get

1127
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 2: out there open mic. Oh and by the way, you know,

1128
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: I was having and I was like, oh, okay, well,

1129
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not embarrassed, and I'm glad you're not,

1130
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: because we're just going to put it all out here

1131
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 2: and answer these questions. But the one thing I want

1132
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 2: also people to understand is that women's health is everybody's issue.

1133
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 2: It's not just women's health. Because what we we're the

1134
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: center of focus in families. We're either caregiving for elders,

1135
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 2: or we're taking care of children, or we're navigating the

1136
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 2: health care for everybody in our space. So keeping us

1137
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 2: healthy and happy should be everybody's goal. It's not just

1138
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 2: a women's issue. Men should be out here advocating for

1139
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 2: this as well, and men need to be educated about menopause,

1140
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 2: as do family members, so you can have a little

1141
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 2: bit of grace and understand what's going on in this

1142
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 2: space without thinking. You know, again, don't perpetuate those stereotypes

1143
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 2: moms crazy, you know, Oh, I can't believe she's so

1144
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 2: out of control. You know, those kinds of things that

1145
01:06:56,120 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: we have been saying about women imperimenopause for way too long.

1146
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 2: We're going to have We're going to have to shed

1147
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 2: that and I think that the more we know, the

1148
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 2: more we're able to navigate this space, not just individually

1149
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 2: but collectively. There is for your perimenopausal and menopausal women.

1150
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 2: Because the one thing that has been a problem is

1151
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 2: the really the lack of research and the lack of

1152
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: federal funds that have gone into conditions that affect women,

1153
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 2: not just menopause. Everything forty five billion dollars in twenty

1154
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 2: twenty two, less than eleven percent of that went to

1155
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 2: conditions that affect women exclusively. We're fifty one percent of

1156
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 2: the population. How do we get eleven percent of the

1157
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 2: budget and that includes you know, polycystic o varying disease, fibroids, migraines,

1158
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: autoimmune diseases, all these things that disproportionately affect women that

1159
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 2: we have just said, oh well, you know, women, what

1160
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 2: are you going to do? You know, that's no longer

1161
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 2: an acceptable answer. So we want to make sure that

1162
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 2: people know how to effective life advocate not just for yourself,

1163
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 2: but again collectively, or what I call the big A advocacy.

1164
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:11,919
Speaker 2: You know, right, your legislator, state legislators, right, your governor, right,

1165
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 2: your you know, your congress people, and we have bills now,

1166
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 2: and well we have bills in Congress, so good luck

1167
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,720
Speaker 2: with that, right, but they are there waiting to be

1168
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 2: voted on. But just really to elevate the issues of

1169
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 2: women's health. As I said, it's in everyone's best interest.

1170
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 2: And for those who want to have an idea of

1171
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 2: what to do, there is the Citizen's Guide to Menopause

1172
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 2: Advocacy that actually lays it out. You can just you know,

1173
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 2: google it, find it, and it actually lays out you know,

1174
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 2: what do you say? What do you right? What are

1175
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 2: the things that are important? And it makes sure that

1176
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 2: that that's how we are going to move the needle.

1177
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 2: We're going to really have to you know, advocate for

1178
01:08:55,520 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 2: ourselves collectively. In addition to the advocation see that we

1179
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 2: have to do one on one in doctor's offices every day.

1180
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely and we have loved having you on today, Doctor Sharon.

1181
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 1: This has been so fantastic. H thank you, thank you,

1182
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: thank you for being here and for all of the

1183
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: great information. Where can the good listeners find you?

1184
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 2: I'm on instagram S Malone, MD. I have a website,

1185
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 2: So if anybody has questions or things that they would

1186
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: like to submit that they'd like to hear about in

1187
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,799
Speaker 2: the second Opinion, you can go to my website doctor

1188
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: Dr Sharon Malone dot com and go to the second

1189
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 2: Opinion tab and it will also have you know things

1190
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 2: sometimes I will do in person appearances, places and so

1191
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 2: it we'll keep you'll have an idea of what's there,

1192
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,680
Speaker 2: and then you also know upcoming episodes in TSO and

1193
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 2: also put in requests because I want to answer questions

1194
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 2: that that people have and so the more I know

1195
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 2: what you're interested in, the more I know about to

1196
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 2: go out and answer those questions for you. If I

1197
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:04,759
Speaker 2: don't know myself, and I want to hear real women's

1198
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 2: stories too, not just the experts. I want to hear

1199
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 2: real women talking about real problems.

1200
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: Yes, and your podcasts the second in my second opinion,

1201
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: go check.

1202
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 2: Us out with the opinion. Yes, the second opinion. You can.

1203
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:24,440
Speaker 2: You can get it wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1204
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 2: and it's out there and it's in the world. And

1205
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 2: we're going to have we have two episodes out now

1206
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 2: and there will be a new episode every week every Monday,

1207
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 2: new topic.

1208
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. Hopefully

1209
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 1: we can have you back again. We would love to talk.

1210
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 2: You back again. Of course. See this is easy. I

1211
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 2: didn't have to get dressed or anything. See if I'd

1212
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 2: known that, I was like, yeah, well next time you'll know,

1213
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 2: a couple of times a week, no makeup, no problem, you.

1214
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 4: Want, I love it.

1215
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can. You

1216
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: can email us at Hello stuff I never told you,

1217
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: find us a blue sctyp, mosta podcast or Instagram and

1218
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: TikTok at stuff one never told you. We're also on YouTube.

1219
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: We have new merchandise aid Cotton Bureau, and we have

1220
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: a book you can get wherever you get your books.

1221
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 1: Thanks always Tis a super producer, procedaor executive producer. My

1222
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 1: under contributor Joey, thank you, and thanks to you for

1223
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 1: listening stuff I never told you. Petion by heart Radio.

1224
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check

1225
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: out the heart radio app, podcast or where you listen

1226
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows,