Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories. Dune done.
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to That's Messed Up and Us
Speaker 1: Few podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: Every week we talk about an episode of SVU the
Speaker 2: true Crimate's based on, and then we have a very
Speaker 2: cool guest from the episode that we like. We haven't
Speaker 2: hated any guests, to be honest, Yeah, I dare you
Speaker 2: to come on this podcast and let us hate you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: or did you think we hated someone? Let us know?
Speaker 2: Why is this starting so negative? This is our holiday episode, Christmas.
Speaker 1: New Year Winters, jingle bells, everyone. I hope everybody's excited
Speaker 1: for I don't know, at least some time off work.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're not like religious, which many
Speaker 1: of us are not, or you don't celebrate Christmas, but
Speaker 1: I hope you know it's just like the end of
Speaker 1: the year wind down New Year's I just always find
Speaker 1: it to be like a fun time. I'm of course
Speaker 1: traveling cross country with my two children, so it will
Speaker 1: be a nightmare.
Speaker 3: But you know, but I hear.
Speaker 2: People seem festive as fuck, because obviously last year was
Speaker 2: a little different. So yeah, it does seem to be
Speaker 2: like I'm invited to a few holiday parties. That's not
Speaker 2: really what happens to me. I don't know, maybe it's
Speaker 2: an LA thing, but I have holiday parties people, but
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of decorations. My mom asked if
Speaker 2: the neighborhood is decorated, and it's not.
Speaker 3: Well, it's going a little bit fast.
Speaker 1: I'm noticing it only because Rosie is obsessed with the
Speaker 1: holiday decorations, because she was very upset when Spooky season
Speaker 1: ended and like all the spooky decorations went down. So
Speaker 1: now I'm kind of redirecting her to be obsessed with, like,
Speaker 1: you know, all the reindeer and snowmen that are out,
Speaker 1: and I'm noticing more and more houses every night are
Speaker 1: kind of popping up with some stuff like I'll tell
Speaker 1: you off, Mike butt between you and me, the walk
Speaker 1: between you and me. There's a couple of houses that
Speaker 1: are popping off. All right, all right, look at that.
Speaker 2: But you know what I was really reminiscing about like
Speaker 2: holiday parties in elementary school.
Speaker 3: Like that was so exciting? Was that a big moment
Speaker 3: for you? Wait? But do you just mean it's school? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so fun and like candy canes and like little
Speaker 1: though hershey kisses that come in the red and the
Speaker 1: green wrapping.
Speaker 3: The tastes the same, but there's something different. No, but
Speaker 3: I like that. Did you ever do the white kisses?
Speaker 4: Oh? Su?
Speaker 3: And the peppermint ones? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So our mutual cleaning person she you know, I've always
Speaker 2: heard she brings gifts.
Speaker 3: She did bring me a gift.
Speaker 2: They are white marshmallow minty things.
Speaker 3: God, she knew how to get right to your heart.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: And I'll eat them. But without chocolate, mintce not a dessert.
Speaker 2: I just realized that, Like cause I love chocolate and
Speaker 2: mint so much, but without a little hint of chocolate,
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 3: It's like a tooth based marshmallow.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
Speaker 1: Interesting. I'm trying to think of anything I've had mint on.
Speaker 1: I do like mint tea, but yeah, that doesn't count
Speaker 1: as a dessert to me. No, that's like when I
Speaker 1: have a cold.
Speaker 2: Oh but you know what we should do, Let's make
Speaker 2: fucking s'mores with them. With a chocolate and then they
Speaker 2: become a minty chocolate a thing.
Speaker 1: That's a great idea. I only had a few of them.
Speaker 1: We should totally do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, I'm sure Rosie will want one for Christmas.
Speaker 2: I'm a Jew, but I love decorations, I love festivities,
Speaker 2: and I love an American Christmas.
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I'm going with some American friends to their cabin and
Speaker 2: which I think they'll be snow so I'm excited.
Speaker 3: Oh that's gonna be great.
Speaker 1: I was just about to ask you what you were doing,
Speaker 1: but I forgot. I know what you're doing that and
Speaker 1: then that be really cozy. And that town that they
Speaker 1: live in is amazing. The mayor's a dog, I know.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have a good time if a dog's
Speaker 1: running things. But you know what I gotta tell you,
Speaker 1: I think it's several dogs are the mayor.
Speaker 3: No, it's Mayor Max and he has a few friends.
Speaker 1: Oh, somebody told me that there were several dogs that
Speaker 1: are the mayor of that town. I thought recently like
Speaker 1: they switched them out, and somebody was like, that's oh,
Speaker 1: deputy mayors, thank you. Annalise Onally's coming through with the
Speaker 1: deputy mayor. I forgot that dogs are allowed to deputize
Speaker 1: their front Literally, what are we talking about. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: When I have a dog, it's gonna be awesome. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm going to carry it everywhere. What's your dream?
Speaker 1: What's your dream? Little dog like a little mutt, or
Speaker 1: like you have a dream breed? I would I would find,
Speaker 1: like I would adopt. I would not shop.
Speaker 2: But I know a person that's like a like a
Speaker 2: dog specialist. I don't know, but he said, tiny, tiny
Speaker 2: dogs that are cute are actually very easy to adopt
Speaker 2: because people buy them as an accessory and give them
Speaker 2: away pretty often, so it's actually not as hard to
Speaker 2: find like these sexy breeds that you might think you
Speaker 2: need to shop for. But I would want a Pomeranian,
Speaker 2: a weenie dog, a little Chihuahua like a little guy.
Speaker 3: And then one day I love Chihuahua. Yeah, I would
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna have a dog in my life, but
Speaker 1: if I did, I would have a Chihuahua.
Speaker 3: But what I will tell you about wiener dogs.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is just anecdotal from
Speaker 1: a couple friends that have had them, they have horrible breath.
Speaker 1: Not that any dog is like you want to make
Speaker 1: out with them, but I've heard that wiener dogs have
Speaker 1: bad breath.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I've been friends with a few. The Dalton's
Speaker 2: wiener dog loves carrots, like that's his treat at the night,
Speaker 2: they drop like a half a carrot.
Speaker 1: Well, you remember my brother. You've met my brother And
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, when did you guys meet? And it's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the night that the Dalton's wiener dog escaped
Speaker 1: and we were all on the streets of Hollywood searching
Speaker 1: for a dog that is, by the way, deaf, so
Speaker 1: you had to just spot the dog. The dog was
Speaker 1: not gonna hear your voice calling his name. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was oh, thank god we found that dog. I thought
Speaker 1: that the Daltons were going to die.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I know they rest, But I want a
Speaker 2: Corgi in my life, in your heart of hearts, you
Speaker 2: want a Corgi.
Speaker 3: Wow, you're so royal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like a little fuzzy idiot Like I
Speaker 2: just and like a.
Speaker 3: Smiling little dope.
Speaker 2: And that's but a Corgi doesn't fulfill my fantasy of
Speaker 2: being able to bring it everywhere. So that'll be a
Speaker 2: later in lifetime, right right. Yeah, Like, look, I have
Speaker 2: a home. I'm a little it's a little different. I
Speaker 2: might have some other people to help take care of.
Speaker 1: But sure, yeah, because you can't like throw a corky
Speaker 1: in your person like go off, who knows. I bet
Speaker 1: you money we are gonna get some dms of people
Speaker 1: with like their corky in a reusable bag.
Speaker 2: But like, corkis are the animals that I lose my
Speaker 2: shit over on the streets more often.
Speaker 3: Oh, Jared loves corkies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like when I see a corky, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: like I get really.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think it's so funny. Their center of
Speaker 1: gravity is so low. Well that's like a Weeni dog too.
Speaker 2: And I like when they mix Corgies with other p
Speaker 2: and then a Bernie Mountain dog is awesome. But I
Speaker 2: refuse to pick up a big shit like that's not happening.
Speaker 2: Tiny tiny Pomeranian Shihuahua.
Speaker 3: No, I think.
Speaker 1: I think New Finland's are very cute too, but it's
Speaker 1: like they drooled their hairs everywhere, like I can't.
Speaker 2: I would even do as I said, a mini like
Speaker 2: mini greyhound, I would do that. I would wishbone, a
Speaker 2: Jack Wrussell Terrier wishbone.
Speaker 3: I would get one of those, like a little guy.
Speaker 3: I want a little guy.
Speaker 1: Those those greyhounds are beautiful, those little they're so sleek
Speaker 1: and like beautiful.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I just love those little creatures.
Speaker 2: There's a cool photo of Kylie Jenner with a bunch
Speaker 2: of them, and it's a dream.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a goal lifestyle goal.
Speaker 1: I just heard something where like they posed for her
Speaker 1: and Travis Scott, right, they posed for all these like
Speaker 1: photos together, but apparently in real life they're like not
Speaker 1: a couple.
Speaker 3: They're just like co parenting, but they're not together. I
Speaker 3: believe that.
Speaker 2: But like, if you're going to be in a fake
Speaker 2: relationship and just get sperm for someone, like, isn't there
Speaker 2: better people you could have gotten it from? Like did
Speaker 2: they get along and date eventually? Like what was it with?
Speaker 3: Maybe? I mean she.
Speaker 1: Probably just wants her kids to have be from maybe
Speaker 1: the same people I know.
Speaker 3: But so they were together, Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: I think they were together and like maybe, oh no,
Speaker 1: people like Astra World.
Speaker 3: Never mind, he is very to me.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't know, he doesn't do it
Speaker 2: was really bad well that's what the album was. I
Speaker 2: remember people really liked him. Yeah, I don't know what's
Speaker 2: gonna happen. But I also don't know.
Speaker 3: But he had an album called Astro World.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, baby, what the fuck is their baby's name?
Speaker 2: Stormy Stormy at an Astro World a Stormy World themed.
Speaker 3: First birthday party? Like it is? Uh, it's like a
Speaker 3: word he uses all the time. Oh so that's why.
Speaker 3: Then that's what the festival is named after. I didn't
Speaker 3: understand that. Yeah, okay, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: No, it's fucked up and these people are just bad
Speaker 2: people like him denying it, Alec Baldwin saying it's not
Speaker 2: his fault anymore, and he didn't pull the track.
Speaker 3: It's like, what is up?
Speaker 2: Like, you guys did terrible things feel but it's the
Speaker 2: Erica Jane of it all. It's like, if you're not
Speaker 2: taking accountability over what you've done, I don't fuck you.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this holiday season, take accountability for the crimes that
Speaker 1: you've committed. That's our message from that's messed up.
Speaker 2: I do have a gingerbread dress and it's like, which
Speaker 2: party am I gonna wear it?
Speaker 4: Too? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yes, Well we're doing something this week that you were
Speaker 1: considering wearing it too, right, Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2: We're the there will be a store party and that,
Speaker 2: or do I save it for Christmas? But I do
Speaker 2: need to wear because I don't know if it's too early,
Speaker 2: like weeks that we're taping this ahead of time, you know,
Speaker 2: because of the holidays.
Speaker 3: You guys get it right, But.
Speaker 2: By now you probably already saw the gingerbread dress on
Speaker 2: Instagram and you know that I wore it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I listened to a podcast called Rona and Beverly
Speaker 1: Forever that I was obsessed with, and they used to
Speaker 1: always say, we're in the time machine. We're in the
Speaker 1: time machine, like they would always talk about like when
Speaker 1: they were taping versus, like their interviews would be like
Speaker 1: off of the time, like of when you think something happened,
Speaker 1: they're like, we're in the time machine. Just so sometimes
Speaker 1: you guys have to understand that we're in the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, Kara went away for Christmas. We'll
Speaker 3: see what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean, I just can't believe your siblings
Speaker 2: won't even do a secret Santa Colin, if you're listening,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Actually, No, I'll say Colin was kind
Speaker 2: of pro It was my brothers, David and Kevin and
Speaker 2: my sister Caitlin that were like, no, I don't get it.
Speaker 2: I think Kevin has two kids and he's like, I
Speaker 2: got enough going on. And David's like, just paid off
Speaker 2: all of his students. My brother is debt free, just
Speaker 2: paid off all his student loans. I'm so happy for him.
Speaker 3: Such a sick world that that I know.
Speaker 1: I know he's like in his mid early mid thirties
Speaker 1: and he's like, isn't that it sad that we all
Speaker 1: celebrated it on a text thread together? But anyway, what
Speaker 1: is your What's this something that you're looking forward to
Speaker 1: doing at Christmas? Is there like a Christmas song you like?
Speaker 1: Is there a Christmas treat you? Like?
Speaker 3: What's your Christmas thing?
Speaker 2: I just I love any holiday where the point of
Speaker 2: the holiday is to lay around, eat, drink and do nothing.
Speaker 2: So I want hot chocolate with peppermint schnops, Like, that's
Speaker 2: definitely something that I need to do.
Speaker 3: I know that my.
Speaker 2: Friend is going to be making some sort of Italian
Speaker 2: seafood soup on Christmas Eve, but I'm looking forward to
Speaker 2: being in the mountains snow lounging, hot chocolate. You know
Speaker 2: I love a gift stockings. Maybe well, I don't know
Speaker 2: if we'll watch The Family Stone, but that's the movie
Speaker 2: I like the most.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh you like that movie? Yeah, great, that's the
Speaker 1: best one.
Speaker 2: But and I'm gonna be on Brian Moylan's podcast Twelve
Speaker 2: Days of Christmas. I'll be talking about stepmom a little different.
Speaker 2: And what are you excited about this holiday season?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm excited that my kids are gonna meet
Speaker 1: their little cousins, like they've met once, but like I've
Speaker 1: never met my one of my nephews, I've never met
Speaker 1: him yet.
Speaker 3: He's eighteen months old. I've never met him nineteen months old.
Speaker 1: And I'm excited for like the like the kid excitement
Speaker 1: about Christmas is so cute. Like, you know, for a
Speaker 1: long time, for me, it was like I went home,
Speaker 1: my mom got me some stuff.
Speaker 3: I was like, great, where's the receipt? I need to
Speaker 3: return it?
Speaker 1: And then you know, I would just get really drunk
Speaker 1: with my family. And now I'm just gonna like, you know,
Speaker 1: put my kids to bed, get really drunk with my
Speaker 1: family and then watch them be happy about President. So
Speaker 1: I think it'll be it's just a reverse order of operations,
Speaker 1: but it'll be fun. And I'm going to see some
Speaker 1: friends at home, and I'm hoping to go into the
Speaker 1: city one night and see our friend Allison, whose birthday
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: She's got one of those.
Speaker 1: She's a Jew with a very close to Christmas birthday,
Speaker 1: so I'd like to go see her for her birthday.
Speaker 1: And my little my brother's gonna have a little holiday party.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we like to drink, we like to tie
Speaker 1: one on and then I go in id talks over
Speaker 1: in West Virginia with Jared's family because they don't drink
Speaker 1: really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I love Great Lakes Christmas aale, but I
Speaker 2: already had some this year so in Chicago, so that
Speaker 2: that's set up.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I just I'm also buying.
Speaker 2: Lindsay Adams makes cookie butters and I ordered some cookie
Speaker 2: butter from her.
Speaker 1: Oh I saw those on her Instagram, delicious looking.
Speaker 3: Oh my lord, I'll do that. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: I'm just I like, I did not grow up with Christmas,
Speaker 2: so to me like any version of an American thing.
Speaker 2: If I could wear a flannel, some slippers, go in
Speaker 2: the I just say okay, yeah, and my friends have
Speaker 2: amazing dogs that really we bond, So I'm excited.
Speaker 3: What will your.
Speaker 1: Parents like be doing on Christmas? It's like any other
Speaker 1: day for them. They'll just like live their lives.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I was home, we would have gone
Speaker 2: to the movies, but like, I don't think they'll do
Speaker 2: anything out of the ordinary.
Speaker 3: And my sister's going to Mexico.
Speaker 1: But what's coming out at Christmas? That's good because I
Speaker 1: love to go to the movies on Christmas. I saw
Speaker 1: Django on Christmas. I've seen a lot of Christmas. I
Speaker 1: saw the favorite at Christmas, I think, or maybe Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: one of the two. I would love to see something
Speaker 1: on Christmas. Anything coming out, I.
Speaker 2: Have no idea. If it's not House of Gucci, I
Speaker 2: have no idea. But also I feel kind of like
Speaker 2: a loser because I didn't think it was that bad.
Speaker 2: And everyone I've talked to or any podcasts I listened to,
Speaker 2: They're like, it's an abomination. God is humiliating herself. Don't
Speaker 2: even see it's not even good bad And I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know. I gave it a six. I
Speaker 3: don't care. I had a good time.
Speaker 1: Well, I wonder if it's like you know, sometimes it's
Speaker 1: tone that misses it, you know, like if you're saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it's camp, it's supposed to be like kind of over
Speaker 1: the top, and other people are watching it like it's
Speaker 1: an Oscar contender, You're gonna have different opinions.
Speaker 2: Well, what Michelle Collins said that I will give to
Speaker 2: her is that how do you make Italy not look beautiful? Like,
Speaker 2: this is a movie about a legendary fashion house in
Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Why
Speaker 2: didn't we see fashion or Italy and that way?
Speaker 1: Did they not shoot it in Italy because of COVID
Speaker 1: or something. I wonder if it's like shot in other
Speaker 1: places or something.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. That's that's above my head, above
Speaker 2: my pay grade.
Speaker 1: Your pay grade as a Hollywood location scout.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't know.
Speaker 1: I like I said, like everyone knows, I fell fully
Speaker 1: asleep for most of House of Gucci.
Speaker 3: So I'm planning to hopefully watch it again.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know what everyone's probably thinking what
Speaker 2: we're recording. The Sex and the City reboot has premiered already.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you guys are probably like, what are
Speaker 2: these bitches doing.
Speaker 1: They're not even mentioning, second, when does it come out tomorrow? Okay,
Speaker 1: so we'll talk about it next week on New Year.
Speaker 1: We're in the time machine. We're in the time machine.
Speaker 1: But you guys are probably listening a week after week being.
Speaker 2: Like these bitches aren't even gonna mention Gary Bradshaw. But uh,
Speaker 2: mister big Chris notth just did an interview defending Sarah
Speaker 2: Jessica about what against Kim Cotrell.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, what did Kim Catrell say? I don't even
Speaker 3: know the new.
Speaker 2: Nothing new, there's nothing new, but he was just like
Speaker 2: he just recently was like nothing she said was true.
Speaker 2: And Sarah Jessica is the best, and I'm very protective
Speaker 2: of her, and like.
Speaker 3: The thing is too.
Speaker 1: I love Kim Katrell and I want her to thrive
Speaker 1: and I want her to do great. I did see
Speaker 1: her scatting with her husband on a sixty minute special
Speaker 1: like many of us did, so you wonder you know,
Speaker 1: is everything okay? But she is like Sarah Jessica Parker's
Speaker 1: like up there with like Mrsca Hargacy level of like
Speaker 1: the way people have that we have worked with her.
Speaker 1: Everyone loves her so it's kind of hard to come
Speaker 1: out against somebody like that's pretty much universally revered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a true dream of a woman. Okay, let's get started.
Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas and happy Holidays and happy Uh.
Speaker 3: Well, we'll talk to you guys.
Speaker 1: Before the new year about we we want everyone to
Speaker 1: have a joyous holiday season, whether or not you celebrate.
Speaker 3: Let's get going.
Speaker 1: We've got a good I don't know, I've we've.
Speaker 3: Got a hot Christmas episode for you.
Speaker 1: All right, deck the halls with lots of sex crimes. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we are doing today one of what I can
Speaker 1: I think the only Christmas the episode I could find
Speaker 1: any we could find, right, Like, I mean, this is
Speaker 1: called Presumed Guilty, Season fourteen, episode ten. It aired January
Speaker 1: second of twenty thirteen, so it's a little bit after
Speaker 1: the holidays, but it's very Christmas y. That's so against
Speaker 1: TV rules. I always do it before. That's tid to
Speaker 1: do a January Christmas eve.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we open this episode on an absolutely disgusting concept,
Speaker 1: which is a Christmas party in a morgue.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm not into it.
Speaker 1: There's literally food spread out where Warner is usually pulling
Speaker 1: a liver out and putting on a scale and like
Speaker 1: now we're like and we've seen burned ass fingers get rehydrated,
Speaker 1: and now it's like, would you like some perjudo? Like, no,
Speaker 1: thank you, I'm our svping no to this party, Like
Speaker 1: you guys need to rent out the back of an
Speaker 1: olive garden or something.
Speaker 3: Don't you think what is happening?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if the Emmys it's their part,
Speaker 2: Like there's a few holiday parties. Maybe it's not the
Speaker 2: official SVU. This is the Morgus party, and maybe their
Speaker 2: budgets tighter.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have an I'd rather you all be crammed into
Speaker 1: fucking Warner's apartment and watch this go down.
Speaker 3: I didn't even notice.
Speaker 1: U uh literally, I've watched this episode like three times for.
Speaker 3: This, and I.
Speaker 1: Didn't even notice that that was weird. The whole gang
Speaker 1: is in the fucking Morgue. Rollins is leaning up against
Speaker 1: those literal sliding thingies, the doors where the bodies come out.
Speaker 1: She's nodding up against one, and there's a fucking there's
Speaker 1: a fucking skeleton with a Santa hat on, like they're
Speaker 1: trying to be cute about it, and they are.
Speaker 2: I are trying to repute about it. I'm embarrassed I
Speaker 2: didn't notice.
Speaker 1: Well, especially somebody who notices Halloween. You always notice the
Speaker 1: date on the cards, and you're like two days before
Speaker 1: Halloween where the decoration so basically Rollins is leaning up
Speaker 1: against a fucking literal dead body being chatted up by
Speaker 1: a dork. And the first thing I think is I
Speaker 1: know this guy, And it turns out I do know
Speaker 1: this guy. I did work on a show called The
Speaker 1: Naked Brother's Band on Nickelodeon with the Wolf Brothers, who
Speaker 1: are kind of famous now, like one of them is
Speaker 1: the boy from Hereditary, the other one is a boy
Speaker 1: from like Paper Towns and like from Admission.
Speaker 3: The Tina fe movie. And this guy named.
Speaker 1: Daniel Raymont was in that show on that show, so
Speaker 1: I do sort of know him. And you can also
Speaker 1: all drink because I revealed another job that I've had
Speaker 1: that you probably.
Speaker 3: Didn't know about.
Speaker 1: So he is the driver for the Emmy's office and
Speaker 1: he drives the hers, I guess, and he's really trying
Speaker 1: to connect with Amanda, who has like got classic get
Speaker 1: me the fuck out of her face? And oh, and
Speaker 1: I point out the skeleton here, and I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is what Rosie would call a scholeton. She's very obsessed
Speaker 1: with all the spooky stuff from Halloween and calls skeletons schooletons.
Speaker 1: So Rollins tries to get Finn to help her out,
Speaker 1: like she kind of is giving like a guy code
Speaker 1: SOS thing to him, and he's like, She's like, don't
Speaker 1: we have to finish those DD fives? And he's like, nah,
Speaker 1: you go for it, play like he just fully bad
Speaker 1: thread to dry like bad friend, bad friend, but also
Speaker 1: very funny. So now Melinda and Live are just a
Speaker 1: couple of gals gabbing it up at the holiday part
Speaker 1: and Live reveals that she's off to the Bahamas on
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve with quote unquote a friend ooh, very sexual
Speaker 1: vacation for Olivia Benson.
Speaker 3: And I think we all know who it is. Is
Speaker 3: it Tucker? No, I think we're supposed to all think
Speaker 3: it's Cassidy. Got it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So now we're at a house with a ton
Speaker 1: of kids opening presence, and.
Speaker 3: Was Cassidy affording his Bahamas vacation?
Speaker 4: Oh? Fuck?
Speaker 3: Have I know? I don't know overtime, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is like after I believe this is right after
Speaker 1: the whole Captain Craigan thing with Bart Ganzel and all
Speaker 1: that stuff where he was undercover with Bart Ganzel and
Speaker 1: all that. So in the next scene, we're at a
Speaker 1: house and there's a ton of kids opening presence and
Speaker 1: a woman is sitting next to a priest being like,
Speaker 1: thanks for doing this, father, And the priest is played
Speaker 1: by Dennis O'Hare, who is a classic character actor and
Speaker 1: a member of the Ryan Murphy universe. If you watch
Speaker 1: any of the American horror stories or stuff like that,
Speaker 1: he's always in that stuff. And he is playing Father
Speaker 1: Shay that's his character's name. And the woman like points
Speaker 1: out this doll and is like, ooh, must be for
Speaker 1: a special girl, and he's like it is a very
Speaker 1: special girl. And like immediately you have alarm bells because
Speaker 1: like this conversation is weird. I don't think anyone would
Speaker 1: talk with a priest like that about a child anymore.
Speaker 3: But like it's also twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: I guess Spotlight didn't come out until twenty fifteen, but
Speaker 1: it seems like we've been knowing about the Catholic Church
Speaker 1: being terrible for a long time.
Speaker 3: But you're gonna say something Lisa, Oh.
Speaker 2: I my breath was like, or you're like, I guess
Speaker 2: it's been going on for a while, and it's like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: It's like a hack.
Speaker 2: The fact that like it is hack to make jokes
Speaker 2: about priests raping kids like that is how often and
Speaker 2: it happens, and how dated it it Like it is
Speaker 2: a hacky premise. Yeah, that's how many priests are raping
Speaker 2: children constantly.
Speaker 3: That it is just like, come, you don't have better material?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it already had its full upward trajectory into
Speaker 1: the public consciousness, hit its tipping point and then went
Speaker 1: over to the point where now it's like, come on, man,
Speaker 1: that's an old joke, even though yeah, probably still happening
Speaker 1: every day anyway. So now Father Shay is in his car.
Speaker 1: A little girl comes running up and she's like, father,
Speaker 1: I forgot you give you your Christmas card. She hops
Speaker 1: right into the car with him. Again weird. Then we
Speaker 1: cut to a little scene with Amorrow and he's with
Speaker 1: his daughter Zara, who I'm sorry to say, love little kids.
Speaker 3: This is not the best actress we've seen.
Speaker 1: Remember when they were doing the episode about the American
Speaker 1: idol type show with Billy porter and she was like,
Speaker 1: how do I be a singer? And he goes practice
Speaker 1: and she goes, you're silly, daddy. She's just not a
Speaker 1: good actress. Fuck this kid, Zarah. But we hope here
Speaker 1: I am dbah. Go take a trip to fucking Disney
Speaker 1: World and get out of my face. So she gives
Speaker 1: her dat a Christmas list and it is extensive, like
Speaker 1: I don't think she understands how much money her dad makes.
Speaker 1: She's like, I want to buy and iPad Minnie a puppy,
Speaker 1: and I want mommy and daddy to be together.
Speaker 3: It's like, how about just the dog.
Speaker 1: So back at the car, this little girl is like
Speaker 1: giving Father Shay the full rundown of the Christmas card,
Speaker 1: like this is this, this is that. Her name is Sophia,
Speaker 1: and he gives her a big hug and is like,
Speaker 1: you're very special, Sophia, thank you for my card whatever.
Speaker 3: And just as he's giving her this.
Speaker 1: Big hug, someone shows up to the a passenger side
Speaker 1: window and starts crowbarring it, like smashing it in. He
Speaker 1: tells Sophia to run. A guy pulls Father Shay out
Speaker 1: of the car and starts beating the shit out of him.
Speaker 1: Back at Amorrow's we you know, we're flip flopping back
Speaker 1: to Amorrow's place. He's on the phone with Maria, his ex.
Speaker 1: We find out that Zara is headed to DC on
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve to be with her mom, So you know,
Speaker 1: Omar is going to be alone with his anger. So
Speaker 1: now back at the crime scene, they're wheeling Father Shay
Speaker 1: onto an ambulance and there's a black man in a
Speaker 1: beanie leaning up against the car and he's explaining to
Speaker 1: a cop like someone jumped this priest, and then the crowd.
Speaker 1: The crowd is like, nah, nah, this is the guy
Speaker 1: who attacked the priest and he stole the presence. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, if so, where the presence? Where the presence
Speaker 1: he stole? He's right here, where the presence?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 1: You just to join the squad. Yeah, I'm mad at
Speaker 1: these neighbors. So they're all saying that the opposite happened,
Speaker 1: that this guy is the one that beat up the priest,
Speaker 1: and that two guys stopped the guy from beating up
Speaker 1: the priest and then ran off. And so the guy
Speaker 1: in the beanie is like, it wasn't me, I swear,
Speaker 1: And my brother in law is on the job. Okay,
Speaker 1: So back at the creepy Morgue party, Finn's ex wife,
Speaker 1: Teresa Lisa Gay Hamilton, Right, that's her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she shows up looking for you. If you remember
Speaker 2: her from Sex and the City. She's Miranda's neighbor with
Speaker 2: the baby who won't stop crying, who gives her the
Speaker 2: vibrating chair.
Speaker 3: Yes, Kendall is the baby or the woman.
Speaker 1: I'm Ken and Amika. It's like Amika and Kendall but
Speaker 1: too Yeah. So Finn's wife shows up looking for Finn.
Speaker 1: So we're starting to figure out that the guy they arrested.
Speaker 3: Is Sam Randall.
Speaker 1: He's Teresa's brother, Finn's ex wife, so he's Finn's ex
Speaker 1: brother in law. She rushes up to Finn, who, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you clocked this is maybe flirting with
Speaker 1: Warner Like they're leaning up against the morgue like wall together.
Speaker 1: She has her hand on his fucking shoulder. She's giggling
Speaker 1: and when the when she sees the ex wife, she's
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, like her face changes. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: watch it again, like it's very I think something's up.
Speaker 2: And do you know what now that you mentioned this,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't why wouldn't they have fucked?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's it's very flirty Christmas, you know, and
Speaker 1: also those Christmas vibes of like it's cold, it's the
Speaker 1: end of the year. Why the fuck not. Well, we'll
Speaker 1: all be on a long break and probably forget about it.
Speaker 1: There'll be no awkwardness when we come back to work.
Speaker 2: No, now, I'm we need some fan fiction, ye shout
Speaker 2: out to the to the listeners. We would love some
Speaker 2: fan fiction of Melinda and Ice getting it all and
Speaker 2: maybe their couple name could be too to Tuny no
Speaker 2: to to to Warner. So Teresa, Finn's ex wife, tells
Speaker 2: him what's up, and he's kind of like, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: a deadbie. He's in and out of jail, and she's like,
Speaker 2: he didn't do it, Finn. He's been obsessed with spending
Speaker 2: Christmas with his son for the first time in six years.
Speaker 2: He's really turned his life around. And like, Finn's kind
Speaker 2: of like he's been on parole for nine months, like
Speaker 2: of course.
Speaker 3: He's back in trouble.
Speaker 1: Like and then basically Teresa gets a phone call from
Speaker 1: Ken and has to roll because we all know Ken
Speaker 1: Finn's son is like, you know, the one that keeps
Speaker 1: everybody in the family together. So Finn's like, Famili's complicated,
Speaker 1: and then we roll right into those credits. So now
Speaker 1: Finn and Rollins are headed over to see what's going on,
Speaker 1: and he's kind of downloading Rollins on what's up, and
Speaker 1: she's sort of kind of like, well, you know, it
Speaker 1: could be a wrong place, wrong time kind of thing,
Speaker 1: like I don't know if I need to explain to
Speaker 1: you a black man, that sometimes this happens. And he's
Speaker 1: basically like, Sam's been on parole since March. He's been
Speaker 1: in and out of jail for auto theft, breaking and entering,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is like, you know, people can change, and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, but you don't get your ass kicked
Speaker 1: for nothing. So at the precinct, because I believe they're
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn or the Bronx.
Speaker 3: They're in another jurisdiction.
Speaker 1: At the precinct, Sam is handcuffed to like a railing
Speaker 1: and he's like, what I'm guilty of is being black,
Speaker 1: and it's like he's right, like literally this crowd of
Speaker 1: people were like it was the black guy that did it,
Speaker 1: and like the cop just believe the crowd of people.
Speaker 1: So he explains that he was trying to save the priests.
Speaker 1: These guys were calling him short eyes and chomo, which
Speaker 1: chomo I've heard before on this show as a slang
Speaker 1: for child molester. I'd never heard short eyes and I
Speaker 1: looked it up and it is like an old slang
Speaker 1: for child moluster. I don't really know what that where
Speaker 1: that comes from, but I'm.
Speaker 3: Sye your eyes are on short little kids. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: your eyes go down to see small people.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Finn's like, you just made up that child molester part
Speaker 1: because you know I'm in SVU, and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's a truth. And then he tells them also about
Speaker 1: this little girl who he saw running away from the scene,
Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, I don't need a car and
Speaker 1: I don't want to go back to jail. Why would
Speaker 1: I do this? And that's making a lot of sense,
Speaker 1: Like what's the motive here? Like there were no present stolen,
Speaker 1: he didn't need the car, so like also, if you're
Speaker 1: going to car jack someone, you kind of just throw
Speaker 1: them out of the car and drive away. You don't
Speaker 1: sit there and beat the fuck out of them for
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes until two guys pull you off.
Speaker 2: No, I get where Ice is coming from here, but
Speaker 2: it's like I always hate when the detectives are not
Speaker 2: open minded and have made their decision and are just
Speaker 2: like beating against a dead bush. I don't know, like
Speaker 2: it's It's one of my most uh when I'm most irritated,
Speaker 2: is when the detectives abandon their like pursuit of the
Speaker 2: evidence and developing their point of view and just go
Speaker 2: in guns blazing with what they think happened.
Speaker 1: Well, so anyway, Sam is like, I really got to
Speaker 1: get home for Christmas, Like you got to help me out.
Speaker 1: So then they go talk to the copp arrested him
Speaker 1: and he's like, this is pretty open and shut. The
Speaker 1: witnesses said it was him, and Rowlins is like, witnesses
Speaker 1: can be wrong. And then she's like, where are these
Speaker 1: two guys they took off. They're supposed to be good
Speaker 1: Samaritans and they split. That's kind of weird. And then
Speaker 1: like the priest is unconscious and the cop knows nothing
Speaker 1: about the girl at the crime scene. Things are continuing
Speaker 1: to not look good for Sam. Like nine one one
Speaker 1: callers say they saw a black man, but they can't
Speaker 1: id the guys who ran away and CSU hasn't even
Speaker 1: processed the crime scene because they're basically just calling it
Speaker 1: like a carjacking, and it's a few days before Christmas,
Speaker 1: like it's just not a priority for them. So lives like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's have Warner send some techs out, and Finn's like,
Speaker 1: you guys don't need to help me this much, like
Speaker 1: I divorced into this situation.
Speaker 3: So then they open the car, they find the card signed.
Speaker 1: From Sophia, and then they also live clocks a security cam,
Speaker 1: so let's go check that footage. They look at the
Speaker 1: footage and the attack itself is not on camera, but
Speaker 1: you it does fit the timeline, like you see Sam
Speaker 1: seeing something and running towards it, and like that obviously
Speaker 1: looks like someone going to help someone.
Speaker 3: And now finally someone goes, let's look into the priest.
Speaker 3: What's his deal? You know, like we're hearing priests and
Speaker 3: Trad Molister.
Speaker 1: It's not our first rodeo here at SVU, Like, let's
Speaker 1: figure out what his background is. They discover he's worked
Speaker 1: at an orphanage in Guatemala. He's been to Boston, Chicago,
Speaker 1: Saten Island Inwood.
Speaker 3: We all know a.
Speaker 1: Priest that moves around a lot is not a great
Speaker 1: sign in a car late at night with a little girl.
Speaker 1: Like Olivia's pointing this all out and it's like, thank you, Olivia.
Speaker 1: Someone's finally kind of getting a getting a beat on
Speaker 1: what's going on with this fucking priest. The hospital calls
Speaker 1: to say that the priest is awake and tomorrow is like,
Speaker 1: me and Finn will go talk to him. You too,
Speaker 1: go talk to Barbara and then they're like we would,
Speaker 1: but Barbara is skiing in Gustad and uh, in my imagination,
Speaker 1: he's with Sonya Morgan, who that's where my brain went
Speaker 1: very obsessed with Stad and so that's where he is.
Speaker 1: And it's like so prood too, yeah, up to soccer team.
Speaker 1: So like it's just funny to me because Barbara is
Speaker 1: so bougie that it's like he of It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: lives going to the Bahamas, Barbera's going to Stad, you know.
Speaker 3: So anyway, I also, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I guess it's Christmas, but like for me, I'm
Speaker 2: always I want to go tropical, Like I can't imagine
Speaker 2: doing an as spin or a Swiss weeekend like yeah,
Speaker 2: or wherever gesshad is like I would never leave a
Speaker 2: cold place and go to another.
Speaker 3: Cold place, right right, Well, do you ski?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not same. I've never put skis on in my life.
Speaker 2: So I'll sit in a hot tub and watch people ski.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm into the app prey ski very deeply. Like
Speaker 1: I would love some hot chocolate, some red wine and
Speaker 1: some hot tubbing.
Speaker 3: And I like to ice skate. I don't know if
Speaker 3: that's ever an option. I love ice skating. I didn't
Speaker 3: know that about you. Let's get a rink and let's go.
Speaker 3: Let's go ice skating.
Speaker 2: Let's go fucking ice skating. There's got to be free
Speaker 2: skates or rentals whatever. We have to go ice skating, Yes,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Maybe one of the last times ice skated was in
Speaker 1: Vegas because the Cosmopolitan has a rink at Christmas time,
Speaker 1: we have to go ice skating. No children, though, No, no,
Speaker 1: no no. I don't want to teach Rosiat to ice
Speaker 1: skate yet. It's it's not even fun. That's just like
Speaker 1: me holding a dead body around that ice rink for
Speaker 1: like two hours being terrified.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So basically, uh, they're like, Okay, Barba's out of town,
Speaker 1: so let's go sweet talk. Whichever ada is like covering
Speaker 1: for him over the holidays. So we cut to a
Speaker 1: walk and talk with this guy and hell yeah, it's
Speaker 1: fucking Todd from Zoolander.
Speaker 3: I love this actor.
Speaker 1: He is also from The Comeback and he is so
Speaker 1: so funny, but he's very serious in this one, and
Speaker 1: he is not buying what Rollins and Live are selling.
Speaker 1: But I do love his attitude even though he's like wrong.
Speaker 1: I like his like he's sort of just like uh uh,
Speaker 1: you know, even though he's wrong. So he's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna ro r a guy who's on parole and
Speaker 1: lives like this is a family matter, and he's like, okay, Peace,
Speaker 1: you should not have even fucking mentioned that I'm not
Speaker 1: helping you now. Meanwhile, they're talking to the priest Finn
Speaker 1: and Tomorrow and he's like, look, this kind of stuff
Speaker 1: happens this kind of time of year. People are desperate.
Speaker 1: I forgive whoever did this, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: press charges. So he sees the picture of Sam and
Speaker 1: they're like, is this the guy who attacked you? And
Speaker 1: he's like, no, this is the guy who saved me.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I can't describe at all the other
Speaker 1: guys I can't make out their faces in my memory,
Speaker 1: but I know this is the guy who saved me.
Speaker 1: So they're like, who's the little girl, And he's like
Speaker 1: Sophia Santiago. Her mother, Margarita is the secretary at the parish,
Speaker 1: and he's basically like, I used to be a priest
Speaker 1: at this parish.
Speaker 3: I'm back in town visiting.
Speaker 1: He lives in Guatemala presently, I guess, and he just
Speaker 1: comes back to town every Christmas to visit his sister
Speaker 1: for the holidays, and he likes to pop in on
Speaker 1: his old parishioner. So that's why he was at this
Speaker 1: little holiday party giving all these kiddos presents at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode. So now Finn and Amarro show
Speaker 1: up at the arraignment where Sam is entering a not
Speaker 1: guilty plea, and they show the eighta this signed statement
Speaker 1: from father Shay saying like this man did not like
Speaker 1: attack me, and the Ada is like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you bitch.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't know if this is legit.
Speaker 1: I can't show this to a judge, like you could
Speaker 1: have coerced him into this confession, which I guess that
Speaker 1: is playing by the book.
Speaker 3: I wish that it was like a little bit more.
Speaker 3: I feel bad for Sam, but.
Speaker 1: And they can't speak to the arresting officer in the
Speaker 1: case because he already left for vacation in the Dominican Republic.
Speaker 1: Poor Sam's son, Dante is in the courtroom and he's like,
Speaker 1: it's very heartbreaking. The EIGHTYA requests remand since he's a
Speaker 1: repeat offender on parole and he allegedly attacked a clergyman,
Speaker 1: I don't know why it matters, uh, but you know,
Speaker 1: obviously judges are probably gonna feel some kind of way
Speaker 1: more about clergymen than they do about regular people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's another profession where you wear a row, you
Speaker 2: have complete power and control and you can't be fired,
Speaker 2: and you can commit as many crimes as you want
Speaker 2: and be a hypocrite. Yeah, judges and priests are very similar. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right. Oh my gosh, so true.
Speaker 1: So basically, the judge grants remand and now Sam is
Speaker 1: going to be in jail over the holidays, and Dante
Speaker 1: is so really cute, and.
Speaker 2: You get a soul, get a soul who like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck these people are just cold blooded?
Speaker 3: I guess to be a fucking prop secure you have
Speaker 3: to be I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Dante is like, please, Finn, help my daddy
Speaker 1: get out of jail for Christmas. So now we kind
Speaker 1: of are like, you know, working against a clock to
Speaker 1: try to get Sam out of jail for the holidays,
Speaker 1: and it's he's a cute kid. So Finn is basically
Speaker 1: like telling Teresa, his ex wife, what's up. He's like, look,
Speaker 1: you're on parole. You don't jump into a fight. You
Speaker 1: call line one one.
Speaker 3: And it's really sad that there are so.
Speaker 1: Many reasons like this where that people have to not
Speaker 1: help other human beings, like your parole status, your immigration status.
Speaker 1: Like there's so many reasons why people just walk by
Speaker 1: or they just videotape something. You know that our reasons
Speaker 1: kind of be on their control in some situations. So
Speaker 1: then Finn and Rollins go off to talk to little
Speaker 1: Sophia and then Live in Tomorrow go talk to the
Speaker 1: current priest of the parish, whose name is Menendez, and
Speaker 1: they're kind of asking him, like, what's the story with
Speaker 1: father Shay Why did he leave? And he's like, honestly,
Speaker 1: it was just because our parish got smaller and smaller
Speaker 1: and he was needed elsewhere So Margarita is the woman
Speaker 1: for the beginning who was saying, oh, this must be
Speaker 1: for a special girl or whatever. And she says, Sophia
Speaker 1: has been with Father Shay alone many times, he's known
Speaker 1: her forever. There's no way he could have molested her.
Speaker 1: She's pretty positive, and she's like, just because of a
Speaker 1: few priests, everyone assumes the worst and it's like, Babe,
Speaker 1: this bad apple theory's not going to win you any fans.
Speaker 1: She explains that Sophia has no dad and she liked
Speaker 1: having Father Shay around her, like as a father figure,
Speaker 1: and she's like, you got him all wrong and lives
Speaker 1: like this bitch is in denial. And Amara is like,
Speaker 1: but maybe the Catholic church is good, like and it's
Speaker 1: kind of awkward because you can tell Tomorrow is Catholic.
Speaker 3: So they talked to Sofia.
Speaker 1: She's super cute and she's and the mom's like, yeah, honey,
Speaker 1: isn't father say so amazing?
Speaker 3: And you know this is a This is.
Speaker 1: Like a little bit of you can't tell whether the
Speaker 1: little kid's like taking cues from her mom or not.
Speaker 3: They kind of make this muddy on.
Speaker 1: Purpose, and she says, the bad guys who beat up
Speaker 1: father Shay. Spoke Spanish and we're wearing hoodies, and she
Speaker 1: said the good guy was a black guy who tried
Speaker 1: to save father Shay. So another witness coming forward to
Speaker 1: corroborate Sam's story. At the medical Examiner's office, Melinda is
Speaker 1: coming through with a favor for them. Checking on the
Speaker 1: evidence from the car, they find the blood from the
Speaker 1: two purps, and one of their fingerprints actually popped and
Speaker 1: it's Adam Benitez, who is two times convicted of assaulting
Speaker 1: registered sex offender offenders sends Offendez. So then to back
Speaker 1: up my point from earlier, Finn goes, thank you, Melinda,
Speaker 1: and she goes, Merry Christmas. Detective Tutuola, if you are
Speaker 1: not sensing the sexual tension, I'm telling you, it's fucking there.
Speaker 3: Okay, I was. I was.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe that I've never clocked this in my
Speaker 1: life before. But anyway, so Rollins, this might be like.
Speaker 2: My purple thing and we're gonna forever now, I like
Speaker 2: read into every interaction.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now there's.
Speaker 1: Gonna be like scenes will be like is that a
Speaker 1: picture of Warner in Finn's wallet? So anyway, Rollin's and
Speaker 1: Finn go to track down this guy, Benitez, who is
Speaker 1: a Salvation Army Santa. And for some reason, there are
Speaker 1: four Salvation Army Santas, one on every corner, and they
Speaker 1: don't know which one it is, so they just say
Speaker 1: his name. They're like Benitez, and he bolts and Rollin's
Speaker 1: fucking tackles him, and it's just a funny visual and
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. And it turns out they bring
Speaker 1: him in, and it turns out he was molested by
Speaker 1: his uncle at age eight, and he was a transit
Speaker 1: cop and no one believed him. Horrible obviously, people in
Speaker 1: power who again a uniform protects them, and he doesn't
Speaker 1: feel bad about beating up pedophiles. And he said he
Speaker 1: was there with his friend and this priest assaulted this
Speaker 1: guy's sister and they need the name of the guy,
Speaker 1: and they basically he gives up his friend's name, Enrique Rodriguez,
Speaker 1: and he is a garbage man played by Theo Rossi
Speaker 1: aka Juice from Sons of Anarchy if you've ever watched
Speaker 1: Sons of Anarchy. So he says that Shay rapes little girls,
Speaker 1: and basically the cops are bringing him in and they're
Speaker 1: like we need Father Shay to id these two guys
Speaker 1: in order to get Sam out. So then when we
Speaker 1: come back from what I assume is the commercial, but
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know because I do now pay for Hulu Unlimited.
Speaker 3: Well, when we get back from this.
Speaker 1: Alleged commercial, Father Shay is arguing with the Monsignor Menendez
Speaker 1: and he's going, no, not this time, And when Live
Speaker 1: and Tomorrow show up, they kind of zip their lips
Speaker 1: and then they find a one way ticket to Guatemala
Speaker 1: that I don't know is sitting on the bed or
Speaker 1: he's like handing it to him and lives like, what's
Speaker 1: going on. We'd kind of prefer if you didn't go anywhere,
Speaker 1: since you're a huge part of this active investigation, and
Speaker 1: he's basically like.
Speaker 3: Can you come an id these suspects that we have?
Speaker 1: And then they do a little bit of digging and
Speaker 1: they find out that this one way ticket was purchased by, surprise, surprise,
Speaker 1: the archdiocese.
Speaker 3: They go to talk to Enrique.
Speaker 1: They get Enrique's full story on tape and he's basically
Speaker 1: explaining that his sister Angelica was twelve when the abuse started.
Speaker 1: He was six teen and his mom thought they would
Speaker 1: all be safe at Catholic school. But then something went
Speaker 1: on with Angelica. She started drinking, smoking pot. His mom
Speaker 1: said she was a sinner. And then he said, Angelica
Speaker 1: gets crazy at the holiday.
Speaker 3: She came to Thanksgiving Stone, so I went off on her.
Speaker 1: She broke down and said he's never been there for
Speaker 1: her before, especially the Christmas when she was thirteen and
Speaker 1: she got pregnant and he made her have an abortion.
Speaker 1: And he says he never knew any of this stuff.
Speaker 1: And all that time with Father Shay, he thought that
Speaker 1: she was that she was being counseled by him, and
Speaker 1: he said it happened because she was evil and that
Speaker 1: she seduced him. So Father Shay said he was trying
Speaker 1: to exercise her sex demon. That's what That's what Enrique
Speaker 1: is saying, like that, you know the reason he was
Speaker 1: raping this teen girl is to exercise her sex demon.
Speaker 3: Wild wild stuff in that Bible of yours.
Speaker 1: So liv says, if your sister can corroborate, a jury
Speaker 1: would understand why you did what you did.
Speaker 3: And he says, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Angelica is in rehab, she's a mess, asks Shay yourself,
Speaker 1: he'll confess to what he did.
Speaker 4: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Finn and Rollins try to get Sam out and
Speaker 1: this pissy eightya guy will not budge, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you got to get Father Shay to id the actual
Speaker 1: guys who did it, which seems insane because they have
Speaker 1: both confessed, so it seems weird that you would also
Speaker 1: need an identification. And the two witnesses are also saying
Speaker 1: that he was a good Samaritan, so I would think
Speaker 1: he would be covered by a New York Good Samaritan law,
Speaker 1: Like remember the Seinfeld finale when they violated this good
Speaker 1: Samaritan law. But like I think, if you jump in
Speaker 1: to help someone, you're covered by a good Samaritan law.
Speaker 1: So it's weird that he's so stuck in jail. But
Speaker 1: also it's a broken system. So at the identification at
Speaker 1: the lineup, Father Shay's like, I don't want to send
Speaker 1: anyone to jail, like I won't testify, but he eventually
Speaker 1: id's Enrique to save Sam because he knows he kind
Speaker 1: of has to do it to get this innocent man
Speaker 1: who helped him out of jail. But he's like, I
Speaker 1: won't testify, and I think Enrique deserves forgive and live
Speaker 1: gives him a filthy side eye and then brings up Angelica.
Speaker 1: Then they cut to them showing Enrique's video confession to
Speaker 1: Father Shay and he's.
Speaker 3: Going no, no, no, no, no, no no, but he's
Speaker 3: also saying God forgive me.
Speaker 1: And then they go to another commercial break, like on
Speaker 1: a very confusing vibe, like what's going on? Like he's
Speaker 1: saying no, he's saying this didn't happen, but also saying
Speaker 1: God forgive me.
Speaker 3: So what is up?
Speaker 1: This is a packed fourth act, by the way, this
Speaker 1: last act of the episode for how SPU usually goes down,
Speaker 1: there's no, uh, not a lot of trial stuff in
Speaker 1: this episode. So anyway, Finn and Rollin's go pay a
Speaker 1: visit to Angelica. They tell her she could help Enrique
Speaker 1: if she testifies that she was abused and i'd the abuser,
Speaker 1: and then they bring a bunch of priests in for
Speaker 1: a lineup, which I do not understand why that's necessary,
Speaker 1: Like she knows the name of the priest who assaulted her,
Speaker 1: she was a member of his church. Like it's not
Speaker 1: a stranger danger situation, Like Okay, who's the guy that
Speaker 1: hit your car and then ran? Like you know this
Speaker 1: man named him, so she could have just named him.
Speaker 1: But anyway, they undo, they show the lineup. Father Shay's
Speaker 1: in the lineup. She goes, oh, number four is father
Speaker 1: Shay and they're like, oh, so he's the one that
Speaker 1: detects you and she's like, no, he is not the
Speaker 1: one who did it. And then when they're talking to
Speaker 1: father Shay, he's going, if Angelica won't say what happened,
Speaker 1: I won't see either.
Speaker 3: So we're like, what is going on here?
Speaker 1: And he says, she confessed to him and so that's
Speaker 1: a confession and that's protected, and Tomorrow is like, you're
Speaker 1: not allowed to use confession to cover up a crime,
Speaker 1: so he knows.
Speaker 3: He's kind of getting cornered.
Speaker 1: Rollins and Live are still talking to Angelica and she's like,
Speaker 1: this priest made me get an abortion, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: father Shay. Father Shay found me bleeding after my abortion
Speaker 1: and helped me and I she confessed everything to him,
Speaker 1: and she's really apprehensive about telling them.
Speaker 3: Like who what the name is of the person?
Speaker 1: Okay, Father Shay knows who molested Angelica, but tells Tomorrow
Speaker 1: that he can't tell him because of his vows.
Speaker 2: Wait, BT dubs have you seen Shake Huleh is the
Speaker 2: Grinch who stole Christmas?
Speaker 3: Very sexual Grinch. How much makeup is that?
Speaker 2: Because she has another number in that show, like for
Speaker 2: one number, getting into full Grinch makeup and then dancing
Speaker 2: so sexy.
Speaker 3: I like what.
Speaker 1: I think she wore a Grinch thing on drag Race
Speaker 1: at one point.
Speaker 2: I don't remember that. Maybe it was the Christmas special.
Speaker 1: Maybe I think I've seen her in a Grinch thing
Speaker 1: on television, but I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure by but it is so good, the
Speaker 3: dance is so good. So you know, Quen.
Speaker 1: Sexy monsters all the time. It's really funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She also recently in her stories, I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 2: started singing a jingle. Oh I told you this, a
Speaker 2: jingle from Chicago, a fur store. Feel the warmth of
Speaker 2: luxury that you deserve Andreanifer's. I mean, I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 2: Like my mind exploded when I saw her singing that. Anyways,
Speaker 2: get back to these molesting priests confessions secrets Enrique, Angelica, Sophia.
Speaker 5: So many holiday you gotta talk about priests so God. Basically,
Speaker 5: Father Shay says he knows who molested Angelica, but tells
Speaker 5: Tomorrow that he won't tell him who it is because
Speaker 5: of his vows, and he's like, I promise this bad
Speaker 5: priest swore he wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Do it anymore.
Speaker 1: And Tomorrow's kind of like, come on, dog, like, first
Speaker 1: of all, that's not true. Second of all, I can't
Speaker 1: take your word for that shit, Like I'm doing my
Speaker 1: job here. And Tomorrow's like putting on the pressure and
Speaker 1: he's like, you're covering up for a pedophile, and he's like, who.
Speaker 3: Could mean this much to you?
Speaker 1: Like why would this mean so much to you to
Speaker 1: not like turn this person in? And basically it hits
Speaker 1: Tomorrow and he goes, oh, I'm sorry, father. So essentially
Speaker 1: Tomorrow figures it out that they're looking at the wrong
Speaker 1: sin and that father Shay Twist is Sophia's dad.
Speaker 3: The reason he's covering this.
Speaker 1: All up is because he doesn't want it to get
Speaker 1: out that he committed an indiscretion as a priest, fathered
Speaker 1: a child. That hurts Margarita, that hurts Sophia, that hurts him, like,
Speaker 1: it's just like he wants it to keep it all in.
Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry, I don't. It's not about all these people.
Speaker 2: It's about him. He wants to keep being a priest, right.
Speaker 1: But what happened was Menendez the monsignor. He knew about
Speaker 1: this because Margarita confessed to him that they were in love.
Speaker 1: So Shae went to Menendez and Menendez said, can you
Speaker 1: hear my confession? And he told Father Shay what he
Speaker 1: did to Angelica, And then he said, once he confessed
Speaker 1: to me, I was bound by my vows.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: I still don't think you're allowed to cover up crimes
Speaker 1: in a confession, but maybe I'm wrong. Like I think,
Speaker 1: like there's doctor client privilege, but if there's a crime,
Speaker 1: you have to report it.
Speaker 3: I don't I think.
Speaker 1: But and Olivia's like, you endangered other girls. But he's
Speaker 1: like he promised he would never do it again and
Speaker 1: lives like were you born yesterday? Pedophiles are great at lying.
Speaker 1: He goes no. Margarita keeps an eye on him, and
Speaker 1: I come back every year for ten years to hear
Speaker 1: his confession. And I really don't think he's hurt anyone
Speaker 1: else since Angelica.
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, dude, and.
Speaker 1: She's like, you are legally obligated to report a crime,
Speaker 1: and you have to testify against Menendez and he kind
Speaker 1: of understands that that's what's up, and Amarro's like, your
Speaker 1: transgression is going to come out, so maybe you want
Speaker 1: to give your little baby girl, Sophia a heads up.
Speaker 1: So now Enrique is talking to Angelica, explaining to him
Speaker 1: that it wasn't Father Shay, and he assumed because Father
Speaker 1: Shay got sent away that that's what happens when there's
Speaker 1: a pedophile priest. And I just feel very bad for
Speaker 1: Enriquane Angelica. Like, Angelica's like, he got the wrong priest.
Speaker 3: Can you let him out? And they're like that's not
Speaker 3: how it.
Speaker 1: Works, girl, Like it's just very sad, like they're just
Speaker 1: two people that are very broken by the greedy actions
Speaker 1: of pedophile men. So Finn is on the phone with
Speaker 1: Teresa being like, I know it's Christmas Eve. I'm working
Speaker 1: on this NonStop. She hangs up on him. It's like okay,
Speaker 1: But then Finn gets an idea. He shows up to
Speaker 1: the judge's house. It's Christmas Eve. The judge, this is
Speaker 1: the judge who granted him remand he's with his grandkids
Speaker 1: and he's like this is not my and it's like, ugh,
Speaker 1: come on, like help out, and he's been on four
Speaker 1: episodes this guy. This is his most recent episode that
Speaker 1: he was on, I think his last one. He's like,
Speaker 1: let my guy out for the holidays, Like we have
Speaker 1: so much evidence that he's innocent, Like just like this
Speaker 1: is bureaucracy, this is paperwork, just like let it happen.
Speaker 3: And he's like, all.
Speaker 1: Right, but he's your responsibility and Finn's like yeah, yeah, yah,
Speaker 1: I got him.
Speaker 3: So then Sam is free. It's a Christmas miracle.
Speaker 1: But Live is about to shit can her Behavian vacation
Speaker 1: to go after Menendez and Amorro's like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: just go, I've got this and Lives like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I handle these things. And Amarro's like, girl, get on
Speaker 1: that plane and get a mye tie.
Speaker 3: I'll handle this.
Speaker 1: And he's like this is my Christmas gift to you,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I want jewelry next year. Cute they
Speaker 1: hug and then we see Finn bringing home Sam for
Speaker 1: little Dante and it's so sweet. I actually teared up
Speaker 1: at this, like I just thought it was so cute.
Speaker 1: He was like dad, and like then they all are,
Speaker 1: and then Rollins is like I'm gonna get going, and
Speaker 1: they're like I don't think so your family and you
Speaker 1: kind of see where you know, Finn and Rollin's relationship
Speaker 1: comes into play here, because like they're really sweet and well.
Speaker 2: It's also Chris, you're gonna let this woman eat alone
Speaker 2: in her house of course?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so all like Christmas music starts
Speaker 1: to swell, and this is like, there is this like
Speaker 1: a show called The Killing that Jared and I used
Speaker 1: to watch.
Speaker 3: At the end of The Killing, they would always.
Speaker 1: Do like a little thing where music would play and
Speaker 1: they would show you what every.
Speaker 3: Character was doing.
Speaker 1: And Jared would always saying, it's the part of The
Speaker 1: Killing where they check in on everybody, And so I
Speaker 1: thought this was like the part of SVU where they
Speaker 1: check in on everybody. So we're seeing everybody. The Christmas
Speaker 1: music is swelling, We're like getting everybody's little end of
Speaker 1: the episode a status update. Angelica's on the street kind
Speaker 1: of like staring at a manger, and then we see
Speaker 1: she sort of watches Menendez, the monsignor who molested her,
Speaker 1: go with the choir into the church and we see
Speaker 1: him put his arm around a very young teenage girl.
Speaker 1: And then we see Father Shay walking with Mark Garita
Speaker 1: and Sophia very cute. Then we see Finn's family sitting
Speaker 1: down to eat like a pineapple ham or something. I
Speaker 1: don't really know, Christmas foods. But Amorrow shows up at
Speaker 1: the same judge's house and that judge is like, okay,
Speaker 1: enough is enough, don't you guys to leave me alone?
Speaker 1: And the judge is like, he's basically like, you gotta
Speaker 1: sign this warrant. We got to pick up this molester tonight.
Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, but let him finish mass. And
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, okay, these religious fucking judges cut
Speaker 1: two weeks.
Speaker 3: We cut to Live on the plane.
Speaker 1: She's talking a Nick on the phone and she's like, okay, great, great,
Speaker 1: you got him, Okay, awesome, hangs up, and then we
Speaker 1: see her hold a man's hand, but we do not
Speaker 1: see his body. Some sneaky dick wolf shit, but it's
Speaker 1: definitely Cassidy. And then the next scene, Amorrow is at
Speaker 1: the church and he's heading up the stairs to arrest
Speaker 1: this guy when we hear bang bang bang gunshots. This
Speaker 1: is like a very twisty ending. To me, I thought
Speaker 1: that the music meant okay, everything's gonna like just end.
Speaker 1: And then we hear gunshots. He runs in. Menendez is
Speaker 1: lying there in the arms of like I don't know what,
Speaker 1: a junior priest, and he's bloody and dead. Angelica is
Speaker 1: sobbing off to the side. The gun is nearby, and
Speaker 1: he says I was here to arrest him, like I
Speaker 1: was just about to do it, and she's like, it's
Speaker 1: too late, and then off of the dead priest. Happy
Speaker 1: holidays from Dick wolf baby, and that's it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just sad.
Speaker 2: It's very white lotus where it's like great, So the
Speaker 2: victims of everything just end up going to jail forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, she's gonna go to jail for a bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure the jury will consider that this
Speaker 1: is a priest who molested her enforce her to have
Speaker 1: an abortion, are we.
Speaker 2: I mean, how many cases have we covered up women
Speaker 2: being executed.
Speaker 3: Their past?
Speaker 2: Like right, you're right, and people fucking love priests no
Speaker 2: matter what.
Speaker 1: Well, I can't wait for you to tell us more
Speaker 1: about that, or when we get back from our break,
Speaker 1: I'll let you know. This was the easiest, most succinct,
Speaker 1: simple crime to research.
Speaker 2: JK all right, welcome back. We're going to talk about
Speaker 2: Catholic sex crimes. Is that a new Dick Wolf show?
Speaker 3: Maybe?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you know, like what's really hard about this is
Speaker 2: it's global. You know, it's like Australia, Ireland, South America.
Speaker 2: Anywhere where there's a church, there's abuse happening. So it
Speaker 2: was kind of daunting in a way, and it's just
Speaker 2: it's really unfathomable and it's probably like the biggest metaphor
Speaker 2: to our lives as humans is just this institution doesn't
Speaker 2: have to pay taxes, openly molest children and no one cares.
Speaker 3: No one fucking cares.
Speaker 2: It is so weird generations and it's ongoing. It has
Speaker 2: not really like stopped in any way. So and from
Speaker 2: like when we record this to when you guys listen,
Speaker 2: there's probably gonna be a new article that comes out
Speaker 2: with like new abuse.
Speaker 3: It's really like there's never really a break.
Speaker 2: So well, we're gonna start with like just some recent
Speaker 2: Catholic sex crimes, and then we'll go down to the
Speaker 2: overall history of when there's moments of prominence and people
Speaker 2: pretend to care, and then we'll go into more specific
Speaker 2: things that have like cases that are very similar to
Speaker 2: the episode, but not exactly because there's not like a
Speaker 2: specific crime, but it's fucking Christmas. This is the Christmas
Speaker 2: episode and we're winging it and so that's what's happening.
Speaker 2: So that's how I'm gonna order everything. That's like, that's
Speaker 2: how my brain figured it out. So Jean Mark Swave,
Speaker 2: the president of the Shadow, how do you say it?
Speaker 3: Do you think it's so because.
Speaker 1: It's sau Yeah, but I love Jean.
Speaker 3: Marc Suave is like a great fucking name.
Speaker 2: So this guy, he's the president of the Independent Commission
Speaker 2: of Sexual Abuse in the Church CIASEE, and he authored
Speaker 2: this French report and that's he said that the abuse
Speaker 2: is systemic and not limited to a few black sheep
Speaker 2: that's strayed at all. So in France, between nineteen fifty
Speaker 2: and twenty twenty, around three thousand out of one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifteen thousand priests were found to be abusers.
Speaker 3: And that's in one country. Yeah, that's not a massive
Speaker 3: country either.
Speaker 2: And this this guy, Francois de Vois, who is that
Speaker 2: I should go to France.
Speaker 3: I think they'd get a kick out of me. He's
Speaker 3: the head of.
Speaker 2: The abuse victims group La Parole libret I mean stop it,
Speaker 2: I can't libery.
Speaker 3: Noadly Berat is probably right.
Speaker 2: He told the clergy men to their face in this
Speaker 2: like giant hearing really slowly. They made a point to
Speaker 2: write that he was like very deliberate in his the
Speaker 2: way he said it. There was a betrayal, a betrayal
Speaker 2: of trust, betrayal of morality, betrayal of children, betrayal of
Speaker 2: innocence of your own people, betrayal of the gossip, betrayal
Speaker 2: of the original message. It's a betrayal of everything. Will
Speaker 2: you just do a pickup?
Speaker 1: Will you just do a pickup of a betrayal of
Speaker 1: the gospel, not the gossip.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't, No, I didn't. You do not want
Speaker 3: to betray gossip. Gossip is your friend.
Speaker 1: It is the gospel, guys, but gossip is my gospel.
Speaker 3: So that was like really cool.
Speaker 2: So this recent report says that the Catholic Church is
Speaker 2: the place where the prevalence of sexual violence is at
Speaker 2: its highest outside of family and friend circle. So of
Speaker 2: all all the places anyone can commit sexual violence, the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church is number one.
Speaker 3: That is wild.
Speaker 2: And one of the archbists shops was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it's more than we ever could have imagined, and it's like, really,
Speaker 2: we've been saying, it's like so shocking that people ever
Speaker 2: act surprised. It's like very strange. Another case this past
Speaker 2: year from November eighth, twenty twenty one, from the New
Speaker 2: York Times is the Vatican issued acquittals in all these
Speaker 2: sexual abuse cases involving former altar boys and a priest
Speaker 2: for covering up the crimes, so there are still acquitting
Speaker 2: crimes as it happens as well.
Speaker 1: June twenty twenty one. I know we're like bouncing around.
Speaker 2: Cardinal Reinhard Marx, who was a leader in Germany's Roman
Speaker 2: Catholic Church and a member of Pope Francis's advisory council,
Speaker 2: resigned in a personal gesture to take responsibility of sexual
Speaker 2: abuses by priests. But he didn't commit any crimes, but
Speaker 2: he wanted to share the response instability and make a statement,
Speaker 2: and the Pope was like, you can't do that, and
Speaker 2: didn't let him do it. But I also don't know,
Speaker 2: it's like, why are you making this about you?
Speaker 3: You didn't commit these crimes.
Speaker 2: Why don't you just work instead of these symbolic actions
Speaker 2: of like resigning.
Speaker 3: Why at the same time.
Speaker 1: He's an innocent person that probably can't affect huge change,
Speaker 1: and so he's like, I'll give up my whole fucking
Speaker 1: life to the church, that I'd given my life to
Speaker 1: the church, and I'll give up my name just to
Speaker 1: call some attention to this shit.
Speaker 3: And the Catholic Church is like, no.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So June twenty twenty one, I mean, these are
Speaker 2: just recent cases. Like that's what I was trying to do.
Speaker 2: I was just like gonna talk about like what's happened
Speaker 2: in the past year, and it's everywhere.
Speaker 3: It's really kind of wild.
Speaker 2: So June twenty twenty one, the Catholic Church in Poland
Speaker 2: discloses hundreds of sexual abuse accusations. According to The New
Speaker 2: York Times, you can tell I have a subscription. Church
Speaker 2: authorities said they received three hundred and sixty eight reports
Speaker 2: of sexual abuse from July twenty eighteen through the end
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty. That is a year and a half,
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty eight reports, and like half of
Speaker 2: that last year. We're in a fucking pandemic where you're
Speaker 2: probably not even like there's not even mass there's not
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Oh my god, I didn't
Speaker 2: even think about that, and since Poland is ninety percent Catholic,
Speaker 2: it never received public attention until there was a release
Speaker 2: of two documentaries with former victims in twenty nineteen and
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and then the church started to scramble to
Speaker 2: show that they're taking this serious. But when you have
Speaker 2: such a devout country, it is hard for anyone to
Speaker 2: do anything about it because no one cares and everyone's
Speaker 2: like delusional about God. But right now in Poland, a
Speaker 2: lot of young people are leaving the church, especially with
Speaker 2: like the anti abortion stuff that's happening, and they are
Speaker 2: just seeing the hypocrisy of everything.
Speaker 3: So young people are leaving the church.
Speaker 2: But Poland is very conservative, devout Catholics. There's been some
Speaker 2: resignations in Poland, some forced early retirements. Archbishop and his
Speaker 2: name is Pollock. I don't know what to tell you this.
Speaker 2: It's it's Archbishop pole, it's Polak. I'm not saying a slur.
Speaker 2: It is what it's. It's that's his name. There's nothing
Speaker 2: he can do about it.
Speaker 1: So Archbishop Pollock said that the church deserved the public's
Speaker 1: trust and that its system for responding to harm against
Speaker 1: miners is working. So they're deranged. They're deranged, like it's yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah.
Speaker 2: So other recent scoop from the New York Times is
Speaker 2: like Fall of twenty twenty one is about a Brooklyn
Speaker 2: bishop and who the Vatican cleared of charges from the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies when he was a young priest in Jersey City.
Speaker 2: Truly cleared it. I don't understand what's happening. There are
Speaker 2: two civil live lawsuits left from that, but the Church
Speaker 2: will not discipline them at all. The bishop denies any
Speaker 2: in all wrongdoing and said in his fifty year ministry
Speaker 2: he has never abused anybody.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: The Bishop Demarcio allegations started to pop up just one
Speaker 2: month after Pope Francis chose him to investigate the handling
Speaker 2: of sex abuse claims by the Buffalo dioceses. So my
Speaker 2: point here is, like the people that the Church is
Speaker 2: choosing to do the internal investigations also are abusing people
Speaker 2: and do not see any crimes happening and are clearing
Speaker 2: the priests like they're acting like they're more serious with
Speaker 2: their investigations, but their standards of investigations are letting people
Speaker 2: just kind of be Yeah, I mean, if.
Speaker 1: You really cared about actually like ridding your institution of
Speaker 1: these people. You would hire a third party to come
Speaker 1: do the investigation, Like if you don't want it to
Speaker 1: be the government or whatever because of biases or whatever,
Speaker 1: you think that you can hire like third party.
Speaker 3: You know, Oh we'll get there. You don't think that.
Speaker 2: You don't think the cops in the judicial system have
Speaker 2: covered up and helped the church get away with crimes.
Speaker 1: Girl, what podcasts are we doing? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 2: And then with these civil lawsuits that I just mentioned,
Speaker 2: and like what's happening, especially in New York and on
Speaker 2: the East Coast.
Speaker 3: There's been like a.
Speaker 2: Wave of people coming forward and that stemmed from a
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen giant report from the Pennsylvania Grand Jury that
Speaker 2: documented a decade's long history of clergy sex abuse there.
Speaker 2: That grand jury report in Pennsylvania is out of control.
Speaker 2: They found out that the Diocese of Altuna Johnstown police officers,
Speaker 2: district attorneys, and judges colluded with two former bishops to
Speaker 2: cover up allegations against priests, and basically, bishops and other
Speaker 2: leaders in the Catholic Church in Pennsylvania covered up sexual
Speaker 2: abuse by more than three hundred priests over a period
Speaker 2: of seventy years while persuading victims not to report the
Speaker 2: abuse and for law enforcement not to investigate it. They
Speaker 2: legit found a thousand identifiable victims, so not counting those
Speaker 2: who have been too scared to come forward, or records
Speaker 2: that were lost of older victims or people that have died. Like, truly,
Speaker 2: a thousand identifiable victims, and the reports are beyond sick.
Speaker 2: It's a priest who raped a young girl in the
Speaker 2: hospital after shad her tonsils out. We're talking a victim
Speaker 2: who was tied up and whipped with leather straps by
Speaker 2: a priest. We're talking a priest who was allowed to
Speaker 2: stay in the ministry after impregnating a young girl and
Speaker 2: arranging for her abortion. One priest abused five sisters in
Speaker 2: the same family and one girl who's abused started at
Speaker 2: eighteen months old. No, these are predators and they know
Speaker 2: where to hunt. These are not accidental devil actions. This
Speaker 2: is not these are you know, Benson talks about this
Speaker 2: all the time. These are predators who know where to hunt,
Speaker 2: they know where to go. I'm I'm curious to find
Speaker 2: out how many people become priests just to molest yeah
Speaker 2: and get away with it. You know, like how I
Speaker 2: feel like how many cops might join to just like
Speaker 2: kill black people. It's like, we don't really know the
Speaker 2: motives of these people, but these it's like so fucking twisted.
Speaker 2: And some of the bishops there are still denying the
Speaker 2: idea that the church concealed abuse, and they deny any
Speaker 2: cover up at all. But that report that I'm talking
Speaker 2: about in Pennsylvania helped propel the passage of long stalled
Speaker 2: laws in New York and New Jersey and other states
Speaker 2: that allowed victims of childhood sex abuse to file civil
Speaker 2: suits long after the statute of limitations has passed. So
Speaker 2: there's been an uptick of cases. During my research, I
Speaker 2: actually found a lot of like not ambulance chasing, but
Speaker 2: a lot of prest ambulance chasing vibes where it's like
Speaker 2: like there are just now lawyers that are like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're here to help.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, are they sla I don't.
Speaker 2: I ambulance chasing seems slimy, but in this case.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: Here take all the fucking Catholic churches money. They don't
Speaker 1: pay taxes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and the New York dioceses then released the
Speaker 2: list of all clergymen that had credible accusations of abuse.
Speaker 3: So they released this.
Speaker 2: List, and then different organizations and like legal firms create
Speaker 2: to interactive databases of all those names, so if you're
Speaker 2: someone that was abused, you can go into this database,
Speaker 2: find your priest, and then go to your lawyer. The
Speaker 2: fact that there's a whole database, it's like it's so telling.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think I'm like revealed, Like maybe
Speaker 2: these cases are new to people, but I don't think
Speaker 2: I'm revealing anything new.
Speaker 3: Can I ask a question?
Speaker 1: Might be stupid, but I hope I know the answer,
Speaker 1: Like why are you moving priests? Like if you find
Speaker 1: out that a priest been like molesting people, why not
Speaker 1: just like fire the priest and be like, hey, the
Speaker 1: priest decided to move to fucking Guatemala and just fire
Speaker 1: them and like nobody, you know, you don't report it.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: Are you in such a shortage for priests that you're
Speaker 1: just gonna allow them to go to a different parish
Speaker 1: and keep molesting.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's like what the French guy was saying,
Speaker 2: where it's like it's deliberate cover ups and they have
Speaker 2: a disdain for victims, like they don't care.
Speaker 3: It's callous and mean.
Speaker 2: I think these like I think your question is like,
Speaker 2: why don't they act in faith since they're people of
Speaker 2: God and they're not. They're flawed individuals. They are not
Speaker 2: the body of crime. They are people. We know tons
Speaker 2: of people. People are bad, you know, and so I
Speaker 2: think it's bad people protecting their friends and the institution
Speaker 2: and they don't want things to get out so they
Speaker 2: can continue to grift.
Speaker 3: These are grifters. These are criminal grifters. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know why you wouldn't just fire someone because
Speaker 2: then it's attention, and then that person gets charged and
Speaker 2: then they go to jail, and the people don't trust
Speaker 2: the church, and their whole thing is secrecy. They're trying
Speaker 2: to keep it as secret as possible. But you're right,
Speaker 2: they're endangering one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because to me, it's like it's a secret. And
Speaker 1: so if you fire them and then just tell them
Speaker 1: to fucking take off in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: that can be that's more secretive to me than keeping
Speaker 1: them in your community. But in another country where they're
Speaker 1: going to do it again, and then it's going to
Speaker 1: be like, now there's a fucking trail. Now you've shown
Speaker 1: that this person commits this crime over and over again,
Speaker 1: so it seems stupid.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. Yeah, maybe they're stupid, But you're right.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand the concept of that they blame victims
Speaker 1: and that they think victims are full of shit or whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's just like intimidating and making people shut up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they can't.
Speaker 2: So for basically like August fourteenth, twenty This is actually
Speaker 2: very confusing and I tried really hard to understand it.
Speaker 2: So like this New York Child Victims Act started, so
Speaker 2: from August fourteenth, twenty nineteen, and then the cutoff is
Speaker 2: August thirteenth, twenty twenty one, you can bring lawsuits from
Speaker 2: all past crimes no matter what the statue of limitations is.
Speaker 2: So maybe that cutoff ended, but you had to bring
Speaker 2: a case by that time. I have actual period, yea, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And the New York Child Victims Act also now you
Speaker 2: may file a civil case up until the age of
Speaker 2: fifty five. It used to be only twenty three years old.
Speaker 2: Because they've done like studies where people sometimes don't even
Speaker 2: come forward that they were even raped or assaulted until
Speaker 2: their fifties until they're way older and then they're reflecting back.
Speaker 3: So I think that's good.
Speaker 2: And then criminal charges have moved up from the age
Speaker 2: up to age twenty eight, and the cutoff used to
Speaker 2: be twenty three as well. I still think that's well whatever,
Speaker 2: But so yeah, if you are a victim of childhood
Speaker 2: of ause, you could bring that up to criminal court
Speaker 2: up until twenty eight if the abuse suffered was under
Speaker 2: the age of eleven, though there is no deadline now
Speaker 2: so the government can criminally charge a sexual abuser at
Speaker 2: any time.
Speaker 1: But also so weird how you're like, eleven is the cutoff?
Speaker 1: Like if it's over eleven, maybe they were asking for it,
Speaker 1: But if it's under eleven, no, no, no, you know,
Speaker 1: we got a prosecute.
Speaker 3: Like it's just or you know what I mean, like
Speaker 3: just to choose.
Speaker 2: I thought about that for sure, and then I was like,
Speaker 2: what age would I pick?
Speaker 3: Would it be fifteen?
Speaker 2: But that's weird and that's inviting something different. But I
Speaker 2: do think that, like we react different when it's someone
Speaker 2: that's eight or someone that's fourteen, and should we or
Speaker 2: should we not?
Speaker 3: Or is that natural? Like it is really wild?
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean I think it should just be the
Speaker 1: age of consent though. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's even a way to consent with a clergyman who
Speaker 1: kind of has like a certain power over you. But
Speaker 1: like if you're eighteen and I guess you want to
Speaker 1: have sex with a priest, I guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, the guilty people
Speaker 2: are making the rules. I don't know if you saw,
Speaker 2: like last month there was the video of like Italian
Speaker 2: Parliament and all these guys in Italian government clapping and
Speaker 2: cheering because they weren't able to pass protections against harassment
Speaker 2: in the workplace for like gender disabilities and like all
Speaker 2: this stuff. Like men were like celebrating that you can
Speaker 2: continue abusing people. I think the people that are in
Speaker 2: charge in our country are abuser. I think what we're
Speaker 2: learning is everyone's an abuser.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, when that legal window opened, its floods of
Speaker 2: lawsuits happened, and it bankrupted some organizations, which is great.
Speaker 2: So four out of eight dioceses in New York State
Speaker 2: became bankrupt, and the Boy Scouts of America also bankrupt
Speaker 2: from lawsuits because of abuse. The Brooklyn and New York
Speaker 2: diocese in just one month alone had fifteen hundred claims
Speaker 2: and just as many civil suits. But they're not bankrupt yet,
Speaker 2: so I don't know. But so now, so that's like
Speaker 2: what's just been happening in twenty twenty one. And now
Speaker 2: I'll just give you like the history of like the
Speaker 2: panic or when things have come out, and we'll see
Speaker 2: the cyclical nature of how nothing ever actually changes. So
Speaker 2: the first time, like nineteen eighties is when molestation by
Speaker 2: priests was first given significant media attention in the US
Speaker 2: and Canada. In nineteen eighty five, investigative reporter Jason Barry
Speaker 2: blew the whistle on the Catholic Church and the systemic
Speaker 2: cover up of sexual abuse.
Speaker 3: But nobody cared obviously.
Speaker 2: So that came out because we thought, you know, you
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier about like the Boston Globe article that like
Speaker 2: inspired the movie Spotlight, and it's like everyone's like that
Speaker 2: was a revelation, and it's like, nope, there was a
Speaker 2: revelation in nineteen eighty five, too big article.
Speaker 3: I didn't read it, okay, it was it was I couldn't.
Speaker 2: In the nineteen nineties, the issue began to grow, with
Speaker 2: stories popping up in Argentina, Australia, and then in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety five the Archbishop of Vienna and Austria stepped down
Speaker 2: amid some allegations, and that like really rocked the church.
Speaker 2: And then in Ireland there were revelations of historical abuse.
Speaker 2: And then by the early two thousand's sexual abuse in
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church was a major global story.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure I remember it.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I said, like, it's always been in
Speaker 2: the background of stuff. And then in two thousand and
Speaker 2: two the Boston Globe put out this huge investigation and
Speaker 2: they exposed how pedophile priests were moved around by church
Speaker 2: leaders instead of being held accountable. And there was a
Speaker 2: church commissioned report in two thousand and four that said
Speaker 2: more than four thousand Roman Catholic priests had faced sexual
Speaker 2: abuse allegations over the last fifty years, involving more than
Speaker 2: ten thousand children. In two thousand and nine a report
Speaker 2: came out that found sexual and psychological abuse was endemic.
Speaker 2: And Catholic runs schools and orphanages in Ireland for most
Speaker 2: of the twentieth century.
Speaker 3: So yeah, these.
Speaker 2: Reports keep coming out and then it's like and then
Speaker 2: what people still go to church? I don't get it
Speaker 2: because that's like kind of the vibe that I was
Speaker 2: seeing where it's like church people are always like, ah,
Speaker 2: the liberals are like corrupting the youth, and like they're
Speaker 2: all leaving the church.
Speaker 3: And it's like, no, they're leaving the church because you're all.
Speaker 2: Hypocrites and they see the hypocrisy and that's why people
Speaker 2: are leaving.
Speaker 1: No one leave, Like, and I have friends who are
Speaker 1: sending their kids to Catholic school and I'm always kind
Speaker 1: of like why, and it's like it's usually because in
Speaker 1: whatever neighborhood they're in, it's a better school, but it's
Speaker 1: not as expensive as a private school. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like that's and you know what does better school mean?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean each science? What are they reading? You know,
Speaker 2: like what is better school?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Pope Benedict told bishops that they had
Speaker 2: to report any suspected cases to local police because previously
Speaker 2: all cases were supposed to be referred to Rome, so
Speaker 2: that in twenty eleven they were like, you know what,
Speaker 2: maybe we should report to authorities.
Speaker 3: Yeah, twenty eleven. Yeah.
Speaker 2: In August twenty eighteen, Pope Francis wrote to all Roman
Speaker 2: Catholics condemning clerical sex abuse bold and demanded to end
Speaker 2: cover ups.
Speaker 3: Hey guys, can you stop doing what you're doing? Please? Please?
Speaker 2: February twenty nineteen, Francis also announced that sexual abuse, grooming
Speaker 2: miners for sex, possessing child's pornography, and covering up abuse
Speaker 2: is a criminal offense under Vatican law. So that was
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. That was an announcement. It's just like what
Speaker 2: I I just don't get it. I don't get support.
Speaker 2: I don't get it. I don't understand it. I never whying.
Speaker 2: But like, why was grooming miners for sex chill before
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen? Like how is this such a big announcement
Speaker 2: he had to make. It's like the announcements seem like
Speaker 2: pr stunts, not actual, like wants to.
Speaker 1: Take Look, we made it a crime, and it's like okay,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, it's semantics.
Speaker 3: It's like not you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because it is considered the biggest overhaul of the Roman
Speaker 2: Catholic Church's criminal code in decades, Pope Francis also broadened
Speaker 2: the definition of sexual abuse to include adults, not only
Speaker 2: children can be victimized.
Speaker 3: So that's good. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm glad the church realized you can rape an adult.
Speaker 2: So it's like they're telling on themselves. It is the
Speaker 2: weirdest thing. I don't care if I'm offending you. I
Speaker 2: doubt too many devout Catholics listen. But it truly is
Speaker 2: something I will never understand, never ever ever. And and
Speaker 2: you know what, I keep being like, what the fuck?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: But what is does make it so difficult to make
Speaker 2: these changes, specifically speaking like about German attempts to reform
Speaker 2: the church, has been a ton of resistance from conservative
Speaker 2: bishops and priests who are opposed to altered church doctrines.
Speaker 2: So like that's the thing that people within the organizations
Speaker 2: are old school and they keep fighting for old school shit,
Speaker 2: and like they don't want to change church doctrines.
Speaker 3: And Hans Zolner, one of.
Speaker 2: The leading church authorities on sexual abuse, said that including
Speaker 2: adults is too broad. And the problem is if everyone
Speaker 2: in quotes, if everyone can claim to be abused in
Speaker 2: any situation, how do you prove that it's very foggy
Speaker 2: some things that aren't as clear as you think or
Speaker 2: may wish for them to be end quote. And that's
Speaker 2: one of the leading church authorities on sexual abuse.
Speaker 3: So this guy is the leader of.
Speaker 2: Sexual abuse in the church and is like, listen, he's
Speaker 2: acting like a fucking he's acting like a comic, he's
Speaker 2: acting like a loot, Like come on, guys, Like are
Speaker 2: we going too far? Like if we include adults, how
Speaker 2: do we trust anybody? And that whole thing is weird
Speaker 2: to me? Like why not go too much the other
Speaker 2: way to ensure people's safety? Like why are we so
Speaker 2: like first of all, these numbers aren't equal to abuse
Speaker 2: versus like fake things, but like I'm willing to risk
Speaker 2: a few priests being excommunicated to thousands of children being abused,
Speaker 2: Like I don't get why not going the other way?
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, I think everyone that's listening is it's
Speaker 2: also like.
Speaker 1: What it's also just like the statistics of women filing
Speaker 1: false rape accusations are minuscular, they're small, like it's yes,
Speaker 1: it happens, it does not happen a lot. I don't
Speaker 1: think there are many people going wrong, going my priest
Speaker 1: raped me when it didn't happen, Like maybe it happens,
Speaker 1: but it does not happen a lot.
Speaker 3: That is not a statistic.
Speaker 2: You need to plan for no, no, and this whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's like it's too broad. What about crimes? You could
Speaker 2: just claim abuse And it's like, well, maybe abuse is
Speaker 2: just happening all the time and you need a broaden
Speaker 2: your definition of it too. So anyways, why is sex
Speaker 2: abuse and the Catholic Church still a story again and
Speaker 2: again and again, never ending. So there's like a few
Speaker 2: reasons why the Catholic Church is more difficult than all
Speaker 2: other organizations. But it does happen in all churches and
Speaker 2: organizations and religions and cults and anywhere where there's authority.
Speaker 2: But like, these are the reasons why the Catholic story
Speaker 2: never ends. One, Catholics make up like a quarter of
Speaker 2: the American population. I didn't know that, so they're just
Speaker 2: like a large group. But to me, I'm confused because
Speaker 2: the whole thing, like John F. Kennedy was like the
Speaker 2: first Catholic president and everyone was like, oh, he's so
Speaker 2: why aren't there more Catholic leaders? And why is it
Speaker 2: such a big deal when Catholics run If such a
Speaker 2: giant population of the country is Catholic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, Biden's Catholic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, it's a hierarchical organization that keeps extensive records,
Speaker 2: so abuse leaves a paper trail. So that's always why
Speaker 2: stories are leaking as well. And back to your question
Speaker 2: up top, I think they're fucking idiots or not or diabolical.
Speaker 3: I don't know. And many people.
Speaker 2: Also believe that priests are an exalted position, that they
Speaker 2: are the representative for Jesus himself, so like they just
Speaker 2: can't wrap their minds around that, like this clear connection
Speaker 2: to God. God's representative is a criminal, So it's faith
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's faith. Like one
Speaker 2: woman abused by a priest said she believed priests were
Speaker 2: in quote about as close to Heaven as you're going
Speaker 2: to get, yeah, because.
Speaker 3: They're human beings.
Speaker 1: But it's also like you can if you're that if
Speaker 1: you're that like into the cult, then it's like you
Speaker 1: could literally say that six year old was had the
Speaker 1: devil in them and they were tempting that priest, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, if you're that yeah, devout,
Speaker 1: who knows who you're blaming.
Speaker 2: And of course forced celibacy added to the mix of
Speaker 2: all of these things is not great because it leads
Speaker 2: to covert sexual relationships and double lives, and just like
Speaker 2: lots of secrets, they also have institutional tolerance for sexual
Speaker 2: misconduct and the protection of perpetrators. And they're straight up yeah,
Speaker 2: this is my own words. They're committed to protecting the grift. Ye,
Speaker 2: they're in too deep. They don't pay taxes. They've convinced
Speaker 2: their flock that they have to give ten percent of
Speaker 2: their like salary to the church. They're making a killing. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is an MLM. This is no different than Lulu roh. Okay,
Speaker 2: this same thing. They're gonna hide each other and they
Speaker 2: know what's going on. That's the thing. It's like they
Speaker 2: fucking know it. They are committed to a cover up.
Speaker 2: They use they use words like they use inappropriate contact
Speaker 2: instead of rape or you know, they they do weird things, right,
Speaker 2: and then they like hire people that don't know anything
Speaker 2: about sexual abuse to be the ones that investigate their colleagues.
Speaker 2: And then like also not informing communities why priests leave
Speaker 2: or moved. It is on purpose. And a lot of
Speaker 2: these cover ups go all the way up to the Vatican. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a node to the episode. So I found a couple
Speaker 2: of cases of revenge and a couple affairs, so we'll
Speaker 2: talk about that really quickly. So December twenty nineteen, a
Speaker 2: teenager Alexandre. It's but is it Alexander even though it's
Speaker 2: spelled like that.
Speaker 1: If this is in France, I think it would be
Speaker 1: pronounced Alexandre Alexanda.
Speaker 2: So a teenager Alexander V in northern France. He killed
Speaker 2: a priest too, abused him by ramming a crucifix down
Speaker 2: the cleric's throat.
Speaker 3: Holy shit, they found this guy dead with a fucking crucifix.
Speaker 3: That's some faking SVU shit right there. Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 2: So it gets twisted though, not that that's not twisted.
Speaker 2: But Roger Matti soli Is was ninety one at the
Speaker 2: time and he had been accused of molesting at least
Speaker 2: four people during his decades long career. Alexandre worked as
Speaker 2: a housekeeper at the priest's home and he was around
Speaker 2: and the priest was accused of molesting not only Alexandre
Speaker 2: but Alexandri's father. So this guy molested it. It's all
Speaker 2: accused allegations, Like all of the paperwork, all the articles
Speaker 2: are always like alleged, alleged, accused. But basically, this motherfucker
Speaker 2: could have been molesting the dad and the son Jesus.
Speaker 2: But despite tons of these allegations, matt to Soli was
Speaker 2: shuffled around to different locations and remained on the payroll,
Speaker 2: with which the church said it was just an error.
Speaker 3: He shouldn't have been.
Speaker 2: Getting paid, and Alexandre was declared criminally irresponsible for his
Speaker 2: actions by the Investigative Chamber of the Amien's Court of
Speaker 2: Appeal in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3: And he's been sent to a medical.
Speaker 2: Specialized establishment which is probably just like a psychiatric hospital.
Speaker 2: But it was a French article translated and maybe they
Speaker 2: call it medical specialized establishments.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I like the sview vibe of
Speaker 3: it all.
Speaker 2: Okay, So then this next one, there's a fair and murder,
Speaker 2: no molestation. But in November twenty twenty a man was
Speaker 2: charged why France, in Lieon, France for attempted murder after
Speaker 2: admitting he shot a Greek Orthodox priest because of jealousy
Speaker 2: because his wife was having an affair with the priest.
Speaker 1: So this is Leon. This is a city in France
Speaker 1: where my brother used to live. Actually I've been there,
Speaker 1: no way, yeah, and uh oh no, I'm sorry, I've
Speaker 1: been to Leon, but my brother lived in Dijon.
Speaker 3: But anyway, I hit Leon. I've been there also, and wait,
Speaker 3: Dejon were the mustard? Yes, Oh my god, I had
Speaker 3: so much good mustard when I was there. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: But what I was gonna say is, is this not
Speaker 1: the plot of like a lot of like soaps in
Speaker 1: the seventies and shit, Like, wasn't there something called.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know, the Thornbirds.
Speaker 1: Or something like people were wanting to fuck priests a
Speaker 1: lot in like the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 2: Well, not evenbout shit. Flea Bag, I mean, flea Bag
Speaker 2: was all about.
Speaker 3: She brought that back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she brought it back. What's her next project? Can
Speaker 2: you please release something?
Speaker 3: I know you've had all a pandemic. Let's go. Phoebe
Speaker 3: waller Bridge yet to work, so yeah.
Speaker 2: The priest Nicholas kaka Vella Cavus is a married Greek
Speaker 2: national and has been holding services at the Leon Orthodox
Speaker 2: Church for a decade. October thirty first, he was locking
Speaker 2: the doors of the church when two blasts from a
Speaker 2: sawn off shotgun in the abdomen and the victim led
Speaker 2: police to the motive and attacker.
Speaker 3: When he was identified. Yeah, they he survived. He survived.
Speaker 2: He woke up from a coma and identified the attacker.
Speaker 2: Because there were like some there were some like terror attacks,
Speaker 2: anti religion attacks, so they were scared that this was
Speaker 2: like part of these bigger attacks.
Speaker 3: But it was just like jealousy.
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to talk about some babies fathered
Speaker 2: by priests. Some are consensual and then some are of
Speaker 2: course rape and so and I you know that is
Speaker 2: that is the truth.
Speaker 3: This is Australia.
Speaker 2: There was an Australian study done that found that four
Speaker 2: times as many women and two times as many adult
Speaker 2: men are sexually abused by clergy than children. And that
Speaker 2: was in February twenty seventeen. I think it's just like
Speaker 2: more horrific. I don't know, I don't know. We talk
Speaker 2: about child abuse all the time in terms of the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church, but people that are in seminary and nuns
Speaker 2: like people are, and people that just go to confession
Speaker 2: are getting assaulted as well. Yeah, somebody think about lots
Speaker 2: of chances for pregnancy. So there's this one guy Vincent,
Speaker 2: and he's the central figure of this New York Times article.
Speaker 2: So this guy Vincent Doyle in Ireland was twenty eight
Speaker 2: when he learned that his Roman Catholic priest that he'd
Speaker 2: known as his godfather was actually his father, and that
Speaker 2: led him to create a global support group to help
Speaker 2: other children like him who have had internalized shame from
Speaker 2: being born from a church scandal.
Speaker 3: And through that he was.
Speaker 2: Finally able to like because he got up the ranks
Speaker 2: of like help.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Basically, he was able to go to the Vatican and
Speaker 2: the Vaticans showed him an art a document and it's
Speaker 2: a secret document. He wasn't able to take a photo
Speaker 2: or write anything that like, he was only able to
Speaker 2: look at it. It's the secret document the Vatican showed him.
Speaker 2: This doesn't even seem real, but it was an internal
Speaker 2: document about how to deal with priests who father children.
Speaker 3: So proof that there's lots of kids out there if.
Speaker 1: They had a little Sophia's running around out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he was shown these guidelines in twenty seventeen by
Speaker 2: Archbishop Ivan Yorkovic the Vaticans. This guy is the Vatican's
Speaker 2: envoy to the United Nations in Geneva. So that's when
Speaker 2: that happened, and the Vatican has confirmed this document and
Speaker 2: that the archbishop did show him, and the document states
Speaker 2: that these kids are called children children of the Ordained.
Speaker 2: It says that the protection of the child is the
Speaker 2: fundamental principle and that it requests the priest to leave
Speaker 2: and assume responsibility as a parent. But why would you
Speaker 2: do that when you can continue being treated like a
Speaker 2: god and ignoring your child, you know, Yeah, that's why
Speaker 2: I would like in the sview episode of like, oh
Speaker 2: he's this good guy, it's like, no, he wanted the
Speaker 2: power of being a priest, Like I don't believe you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like if he actually wanted to
Speaker 2: live by the word, he would go raise.
Speaker 3: His fucking child.
Speaker 2: You can only ask for a priest to leave. You
Speaker 2: can't impose a dismissal. So even if a priest is
Speaker 2: like fathering people, you can't force him to leave. But
Speaker 2: they do say that natural law comes before, like you're
Speaker 2: right to be a priest, But there's zero written into
Speaker 2: the law about that. But they do say that you
Speaker 2: should go take care of your child. But like I said,
Speaker 2: I've been saying, it's a culture of secrecy, aversion to scandal,
Speaker 2: and it keeps you know, that's why it keeps this
Speaker 2: fucking shit going on. So this guy, mister Doyle, he
Speaker 2: says that his support group has fifty thousand users in
Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy five countries, So there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people out there. And one man, Eric Zetoni, his
Speaker 2: mother was raped by a priest when she was fourteen
Speaker 2: and the priest was fifty four years old. The family
Speaker 2: tried to make the man recognize the child and he wouldn't,
Speaker 2: and so they were evicted from their parish owned home.
Speaker 2: And in twenty ten she sued the priest and a
Speaker 2: DNA test proved that he was the father, but was
Speaker 2: not forced to leave the priesthood. And this father, Tosy,
Speaker 2: died in twenty fourteen, still a priest Jesus. And some
Speaker 2: of these women, like what happens to them is that
Speaker 2: they're now reflecting back and questioning whether their relationship with
Speaker 2: the priest was abused circumsensual, with like the power dynamics
Speaker 2: and the grooming and all of that. So that is
Speaker 2: something that's coming up with a lot of victims later
Speaker 2: in life. And it's also a lot of emotional abuse,
Speaker 2: pressuring people to stay silent and protect the priest's career, Like,
Speaker 2: that's gonna fuck with you. I never really thought about
Speaker 2: that because I have no respect for the church, but
Speaker 2: I understand if you do, sure that might be hard
Speaker 2: for you. Also, it's like tough dealing with the church
Speaker 2: going against you and treating you like shit. The moment
Speaker 2: you get pregnant is like what this woman was talking about.
Speaker 2: This other woman, Teresa Engelhart, she became pregnant after a
Speaker 2: fifteen year long affair with a reverend Robert Dryspack, and
Speaker 2: the years that followed the Diocese of Allentown in Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: did offer her regular child support payments for her silence
Speaker 2: and that her and her son would not contact the reverend.
Speaker 1: Shees, so just full hush money, just full hush money
Speaker 1: payment yees.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's what's fucked.
Speaker 2: It's like, not only are they having to constantly pay
Speaker 2: out like all these lawsuits from all these molesting, they
Speaker 2: are also paying out all this child support and hush
Speaker 2: money for all just like the quote like legal fucking
Speaker 2: that's even happening. But so it's basically an institution that
Speaker 2: doesn't pay taxes, that makes its followers give them money
Speaker 2: and then they spend their money. It seems billions and
Speaker 2: billions of dollars just hiding their crimes.
Speaker 3: It's fucking weird, dude.
Speaker 2: Engelhart says, the priests can keep keep going and the
Speaker 2: women has some explaining to do, but that's its tail
Speaker 2: as sold as time. The priest told her to get
Speaker 2: an abortion or give the child up for adoption, and
Speaker 2: he would send money and stuff because he didn't want
Speaker 2: to leave the priesthood, so he's like, those are your options.
Speaker 2: But when she finally came forward, the bishop told her
Speaker 2: that she was a sinner that was bringing shame to
Speaker 2: her family and it was a lot of psychological trauma
Speaker 2: for this woman. Her son, who's now grown with his
Speaker 2: own kids, says he carries around a lot of guilt
Speaker 2: with him because if he hadn't been born, his mom
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been involved in like this church mess, and
Speaker 2: the dad could have stayed a priest.
Speaker 3: And so like, he has a lot of his own
Speaker 3: guilt and trauma with that. Did the dad lose his priesthood?
Speaker 3: I think he left? Yeah? Oh, okay, I think this
Speaker 3: one did some leave some.
Speaker 2: I mean I read somewhere like a guy was like
Speaker 2: happy to leave and raise his child and He's like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I love being a biological father way more
Speaker 2: than I was like a father at the church. And
Speaker 2: he was like pretty jazzed to leave his life and
Speaker 2: like married to this person.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: So this other guy, Richard Sipe, who I don't know
Speaker 2: who he is, but this is from the Washington Post,
Speaker 2: so we have to assume it's a respected researcher. But
Speaker 2: he found out that in nineteen ninety, forty percent of
Speaker 2: priests were practicing celibacy.
Speaker 3: So that's not high numbers.
Speaker 1: And but how are you researching that? How are they
Speaker 1: all confessing to you in the in the survey that
Speaker 1: they're fucking It's like it's a.
Speaker 3: Confusing it is.
Speaker 1: And I hope, I hope you got good numbers, but
Speaker 1: I don't think that many priests are like I'm getting
Speaker 1: my dick wet all the time.
Speaker 3: Don't tell anyone, you know. But it's the opposite.
Speaker 2: They said only forty percent were said they were celibate, Right.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. So sixty percent wrote down I'm
Speaker 3: not celibate. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was just like, you know what, I have to
Speaker 2: find as many good things that like tie with this
Speaker 2: Christmas episode.
Speaker 3: I mean because but.
Speaker 1: Then I was like researching for a true crime of it.
Speaker 3: But it's like if there was.
Speaker 2: I we it would have been based on it, like
Speaker 2: we would have known.
Speaker 3: So so after hours.
Speaker 1: Of figuring it out, I go, if there was an
Speaker 1: exact case, we would be studying it.
Speaker 3: What am I doing? So that was like hard.
Speaker 2: But priests nowadays do appear slightly more likely to come
Speaker 2: forward than in the past because they're more aware of
Speaker 2: like the risks of social media exposure and lawsuits and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So not because the Lord is watching
Speaker 2: in morality, but they understand that they are. It's easier
Speaker 2: to get caught and talk and like a firestorm start out.
Speaker 2: Flavia Alaya is a woman who had a twenty three
Speaker 2: year relationship with the Roman Catholic priest, and she wrote
Speaker 2: a memoir about it that detailed this whole relationship. But
Speaker 2: she wrote this, and this will be I don't know,
Speaker 2: a poetic or ending or a cheap cop out. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but I'm ending this in amending this in quotes.
Speaker 2: So this woman, she wrote, I am a Catholic in
Speaker 2: the same way that I am American. I don't believe
Speaker 2: in the way the state behaves. Yet I am a
Speaker 2: citizen here. My Catholicism is an accident of history, not
Speaker 2: an act of faith.
Speaker 3: I can't shed it like a dress. Still.
Speaker 2: I have always said that love is never a scandal.
Speaker 2: If there is something that makes love impossible, then it
Speaker 2: must be re examined.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 2: Interesting, and that's only in terms of obviously consensual adult
Speaker 2: love affairs, not nam style.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean that was some stuff I didn't know,
Speaker 1: so that thank you for doing all that research. I
Speaker 1: know this was more of a concept crime, but you
Speaker 1: found the worth it for the story about the crucifix.
Speaker 3: Down the throat.
Speaker 2: My god, I know, I wish there was more info
Speaker 2: about him, but I was like, it was really hard
Speaker 2: because I could have done all of it. I just
Speaker 2: that's so metal. Maybe we just write a short film.
Speaker 2: I just really want a crucifix in the throat.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing with these people in Angelica in
Speaker 2: the episode, And you know, like when you're let down
Speaker 2: by everyone and you're out of options, what the fuck
Speaker 2: do you do with all this trauma? Okay, well, we
Speaker 2: do have a great guest, like always, yes, we have
Speaker 2: an amazing guess, Marry Christmas.
Speaker 3: And happy Hanukkah. Guys. I am so excited about today's guest.
Speaker 1: He is a prolific, legendary character actor whose work spans
Speaker 1: many genres. You've seen him in everything from American horror
Speaker 1: story to The Good Wife, True Blood, The Proposal, but
Speaker 1: of course today you know him as father Chris Shay. Guys,
Speaker 1: we are so excited to talk to Dennis O'Hare. So
Speaker 1: you guys can't see this, but he is showing us
Speaker 1: a picture of himself covered in blood. He started off
Speaker 1: on the zoom telling us I have blood on my hands, Like, wow,
Speaker 1: you're really bringing it.
Speaker 3: Oh what is this for? Yeah? What are you shooting
Speaker 3: in London?
Speaker 4: The nevers for HBO? Oh right, yeah yeah we did.
Speaker 4: We shot and we already showed six episodes and this
Speaker 4: is the back six. This only think it is two
Speaker 4: years because of COVID to like put this puppy to like,
Speaker 4: you know, season one is crazy, crazy and long orders
Speaker 4: on like season ninety four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, exactly, that's how you do it.
Speaker 1: Wait, so we were obviously doing some gentle stocking of
Speaker 1: your Instagram and I was like, this man lives in Europe?
Speaker 1: Or are you just based there for this project or
Speaker 1: do you always live in Europe?
Speaker 4: No, I live in Europe. We moved in twenty eighteen
Speaker 4: to Paris, my husband and my son and I moved
Speaker 4: to Paris. Yes, what a shame, I know. I know.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll obviously get into s V Murder your career everything.
Speaker 2: But since this is Christmas or Christmas episode, I was
Speaker 2: wondering what you would like for Christmas this year and
Speaker 2: what your cutie son wants? What are his big asks
Speaker 2: and any traditions cute things about Christmas.
Speaker 4: You know my son he's ten years old, so you
Speaker 4: know what you would like is grand theft auto. He's
Speaker 4: not getting the okay, no, no, no, no no. The fact
Speaker 4: he plays Fortnite is a huge failure already. But what
Speaker 4: he'll get from me is who get things he really wants,
Speaker 4: like books he doesn't want. That's what I buy him.
Speaker 4: I buy him, yes, buy him books. And as far
Speaker 4: as me, I'm a terrible I'm a terrible gift receiver
Speaker 4: because I don't actually want anything and I just don't
Speaker 4: want anything, and what I do want nobody can buy
Speaker 4: for me because I have incredibly niche taste when it
Speaker 4: comes to music, and so I'm I'm an opera freak
Speaker 4: and a classical musician. And so you know, I want
Speaker 4: Schumann's Kinderstain and by Martha Augerich, the sixty five album,
Speaker 4: not the eighty two when she came out from retirement.
Speaker 4: I want the Glenn Gould, you know, the Goldberg, the
Speaker 4: eighty two and the sixty five, but not the other remix.
Speaker 4: You know. It's so you can't buy anythings because I'll
Speaker 4: just go, oh, it's the barber of Seville greatest hits.
Speaker 4: Why did you buy me? So my husband didn't bother?
Speaker 4: He doesn't bother.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, your poor husbands. Well that's
Speaker 1: a tough that's a tough one.
Speaker 4: Hats you always buy me a hat. I'll always take
Speaker 4: a hat.
Speaker 1: Yes, are you guys going to be in Paris or
Speaker 1: London for Christmas? Because I'm sure both cities are quite
Speaker 1: magical for Christmas?
Speaker 4: New York?
Speaker 3: Oh New York? Yeah, yeah, Oh that makes us happy.
Speaker 1: Well that's exciting. We hope you have an amazing Christmas
Speaker 1: in New York. Let's now that we're talking about New York,
Speaker 1: let's just talk about law and order. I mean, you
Speaker 1: are you're a Law and Order Legend because you are
Speaker 1: season one and season sixteen.
Speaker 4: I didn't know it was in season one. I didn't
Speaker 4: know that with Michael Mark and Moriarty.
Speaker 1: Oh it actually wasn't Michael Moriarty was it was SVU.
Speaker 1: It was season one of SVU and you played a
Speaker 1: guy named Jimmy walp Right.
Speaker 4: Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Is really really sad, haunting.
Speaker 4: I know we're crazy that, I'll tell you honestly. So
Speaker 4: that that part. I remember auditioning for it, sitting in
Speaker 4: the little room and there are like five of us
Speaker 4: putting a friend of mine named Tom RaSE Ferrell, and
Speaker 4: we were both like, dude, you're going to get this
Speaker 4: because none of us wanted it because it was creepy,
Speaker 4: because come on, it was really he rapes an old lady.
Speaker 4: It was really hard, and I was I was like,
Speaker 4: I don't want this part, and so Tom, this is
Speaker 4: right up your alley. You're going to be You're going
Speaker 4: to get this. And then I got it, and I
Speaker 4: was like, no, I got it, but of course, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I love me some Law and Orders, some
Speaker 4: Dick Wolf, and so I was I was actually thrilled
Speaker 4: to get it. And and you know, Tom McCarthy, the director,
Speaker 4: had once played a part of a mentally challenged person
Speaker 4: and so I remember looking at what he digs. I
Speaker 4: was like, he was really good at it. And I
Speaker 4: remember him talking about it about you don't play dumb.
Speaker 4: You play someone who's who's actually act smart but just
Speaker 4: isn't getting the answers right. So they sort of act
Speaker 4: like they know everything even though they don't know anything,
Speaker 4: because you know, and he had a really good approach
Speaker 4: and so I totally just copied him. I channeled Tom
Speaker 4: McCarthy for that. This is before he became a massive,
Speaker 4: the huge director and you know, in one of words,
Speaker 4: but yeah, he was my inspiration for that. I mean,
Speaker 4: his his he's playing of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: It's a very subtle sort of like something's off with
Speaker 1: this guy kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And that's interesting.
Speaker 2: But that's what makes the ending so horrifying, is that
Speaker 2: you probably that character didn't belong in that place, but
Speaker 2: he did commit this crime he didn't understand and now
Speaker 2: yeah he's there and there's nothing else and I guess
Speaker 2: justice has been served. You know, it's it was a
Speaker 2: rough one.
Speaker 4: Well, that's the great thing about you know, the all
Speaker 4: the Law and Order franchises. Is that I feel like,
Speaker 4: you know, sort of like The Good Wife. They're they're
Speaker 4: never square, they don't hit dead on, you don't get satisfied. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the guy. Yet the guy got caught. But why don't
Speaker 4: we feel good about that? Why is this still doesn't
Speaker 4: feel like it's you know, it's the happy ending. There's
Speaker 4: so much ambiguity, which is why I think people watch
Speaker 4: it because you're not just getting a square deal. You're
Speaker 4: get something that's a little more difficult to comprehend.
Speaker 2: Well, especially with your season sixteen one because obviously everyone
Speaker 2: is assuming that you are a pedophile priest, and so
Speaker 2: many twists and turns and.
Speaker 4: The I wore a Santa Claus.
Speaker 1: Head yes at the beginning, it's actually it's actually season.
Speaker 3: Fourteen this episode.
Speaker 1: So basically, if the map is correct, you're due to
Speaker 1: be back on SVU in like another few seasons. So
Speaker 1: I think season twenty eight is when we need you
Speaker 1: back on.
Speaker 4: I've played two priests, I could play a third priest.
Speaker 4: I've played one schizophrenic, I played a militia guy. I've
Speaker 4: played let's you know, if I've played I've played a
Speaker 4: sch schisph the lawyer. Ea, I've played various lawyers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so you're just like in the Law and
Speaker 1: Order universe, the Dick Wolf universe, and so they did
Speaker 1: they just bring you in for stuff. They're like, Dennis,
Speaker 1: get in here, we got we got something for you.
Speaker 4: You know, the universes are a little separate, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. Like SCU is a little separate from
Speaker 4: mothership Law and Order. You know, a different team of people.
Speaker 4: You know, Warren Light is SCU and he's got a
Speaker 4: different thing going on. And no, but I do remember
Speaker 4: my very first Law and Order ever. It was with
Speaker 4: I think it was Paul Cervino and Michael Moriarty and
Speaker 4: then I did on with Jerry Orbach and Ben Bratt, Right.
Speaker 4: I mean I've been to all of the all of
Speaker 4: the various characters over there.
Speaker 1: All over New York City playing different people. So you've
Speaker 1: been a priest before on Law and Order? Do you
Speaker 1: love those robes or what? Is that a comfy day
Speaker 1: on set for you?
Speaker 4: You know, I was meant to be a priest, and
Speaker 4: so you know, finally, I mean till I was till
Speaker 4: I was seventeen, I was going to be a really
Speaker 4: I was only I was very very serious about it.
Speaker 4: I was the child who drove everyone else crazy in
Speaker 4: my family. I'm the fourth of five kids, and I
Speaker 4: gave all my money to UNICEF. I gave all my
Speaker 4: allowance away to the church. I kneeled and prayed. I
Speaker 4: made may altars, I made everyone say the rose. I
Speaker 4: had a real serious advent wreath for Christmas. I didn't
Speaker 4: believe in gifts for Christmas. I believed in praying for Christmas.
Speaker 4: I was totally humorous. Pictures of saints on the walls,
Speaker 4: priest being ordained, bloody Christ, you know, bloody gory, you know,
Speaker 4: chrus thorns in the head with blood coming down. They're
Speaker 4: gory pictures. So for a kid, you know, it was
Speaker 4: sort of like great because you got to indulge in
Speaker 4: in horror and you know, no Oneder, I ended up
Speaker 4: doing a horror Yeah.
Speaker 3: Really, well, when did the switch? When did you? When
Speaker 3: did you change tracks?
Speaker 4: You know, it was funny because I was seventeen. I
Speaker 4: was going to Brother Rise High School in Michigan, which
Speaker 4: is Christian Brothers of Ireland, and at that point I
Speaker 4: was thinking I was already thinking maybe not a priest,
Speaker 4: maybe your brother, because priests you know, have a heavier
Speaker 4: commitment and brothers had a shorter ordination track. And one
Speaker 4: of the brothers came to me privately and said, I
Speaker 4: understand you want to be a brother and I said, yes.
Speaker 4: He goes, I will block you. I was like what,
Speaker 4: and he said, I will block your admission and I
Speaker 4: said why and he said, because you don't have a vacation.
Speaker 4: And he was right. And he wasn't a friend of mine,
Speaker 4: because I had Brother Smith was a friend of mine
Speaker 4: and he was going to support me. And this guy,
Speaker 4: brother Haas was not a friend of mine. But he
Speaker 4: was correct and he was able to see me objectively
Speaker 4: and see that that kid is not in it for
Speaker 4: the right reasons. Because what I wanted to do was
Speaker 4: to play the organ and sit in church alone and
Speaker 4: be quiet and contemplate, you know, big things. I didn't
Speaker 4: want to help people. I didn't want to teach. I
Speaker 4: didn't want to say mass, you know, and that's what
Speaker 4: you have to really want. And I also, I'm not
Speaker 4: even trying to believe in God at that point, you know,
Speaker 4: I just was like way into the trappings of it,
Speaker 4: you know, the rituals of it, and there are a
Speaker 4: lot of ex priests in the acting world, or a
Speaker 4: lot of almost ex priests, a lot of ex seminarians.
Speaker 4: I know, lots of gods.
Speaker 1: An uncle of mine who just passed way, who was
Speaker 1: an actor and a comedian, almost became a priest. Yet
Speaker 1: he wrote a New York Times bestseller about almost.
Speaker 3: Becoming a priest.
Speaker 4: What was it called?
Speaker 3: So crazy? It was called Father Joe Nice.
Speaker 2: Wait, so what do you think do you have a like,
Speaker 2: why do you think that is all these almost actor priests?
Speaker 4: You know, because the especially in the Catholic Mass, it's
Speaker 4: a show. It's absolutely a show. You make an entrance,
Speaker 4: you got a dressing room, You get dressed in a
Speaker 4: dressing room. You kidd, it's beforehand. You have fun. You're like,
Speaker 4: who's out there in the night. I don't know. It's
Speaker 4: a full house, you know. And I get Father Franks
Speaker 4: to smoke a cigar. Back there, he's puffing away, and
Speaker 4: then he would like put it out and you go.
Speaker 4: He'd whip us with his thing and to ring the bell,
Speaker 4: and you ring the bell, ding, and you start down
Speaker 4: the procession. I mean, come on, it's curtains ding. And
Speaker 4: then you walk up the aisle. Everyone stands. They all
Speaker 4: watch you. You're in your costume. You get up there,
Speaker 4: you're on literally on stage. You jump up on stage.
Speaker 4: There's a script, you follow the script. There's a ritual,
Speaker 4: there's things you do. There's magic. There's a magic show
Speaker 4: in the middle of it. You turn, you turn the
Speaker 4: bread into the body of Christ and the wine into
Speaker 4: the blood. Read it's a magic show.
Speaker 1: This makes complete sense now that you're now that you're
Speaker 1: mapping it out for us.
Speaker 4: Wow. And then you get to like, say a sermon,
Speaker 4: you get to improv, you get to do a stand
Speaker 4: up routine. In the middle of it. It's totally off
Speaker 4: the cuff. You know. Some priests go for last Father
Speaker 4: John brought up props, he'd bring out he'd reached his rope,
Speaker 4: and you bring out a bottle of clorox. You go, now,
Speaker 4: this is your soul, this is your soul on God,
Speaker 4: and you bring out a cobust clorox you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, And we'd all laugh, you know. So, so
Speaker 4: it's everything. And then at the end, you know, you genuflect,
Speaker 4: you take your bow, and then you you know, you leave,
Speaker 4: and then you go behind the scenes again. You close
Speaker 4: the door and you take off the stuff and you
Speaker 4: kind of go that, and I was good. I love that.
Speaker 4: I love that thing. That was great that you kneel
Speaker 4: really well right there. Yeah, but you see how I
Speaker 4: lifted the host like that. It was great. Yeah. Nice
Speaker 4: the bells, that was nice timing the bill. Yeah wow.
Speaker 1: I mean we're both Jews, so this is like I
Speaker 1: didn't know about the pageantry of mass like this.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, but that's interesting. Wow.
Speaker 2: And then this one guy said this isn't for you,
Speaker 2: and you were like, yeah, all right, that's cool.
Speaker 3: I'll go I'll become a superstar.
Speaker 4: I You know, what a lot of things happened between
Speaker 4: eighteen and nineteen, you know, I mean, look at anybody's life.
Speaker 4: A lot what a lot of people wanted to be,
Speaker 4: is that what they ended up being. So at eighteen,
Speaker 4: I was accepted into the opera program at University of
Speaker 4: Michigan and at the same time except into Northwestern and acting,
Speaker 4: and it did not matter to me which way I went.
Speaker 4: And I ended up going to Northwestern and I did
Speaker 4: opera there for my first year and a lot of
Speaker 4: musicals and then just kind of like fell into acting,
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, and that that became the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I, you know, and far as it was weird,
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, I also was going to be straight.
Speaker 4: I decided when I left high school, I'm going to
Speaker 4: be straight. I'm going to be straight. And I got
Speaker 4: to college and like within two weeks I was in
Speaker 4: bed with my director, this guy named Tom, and I
Speaker 4: woke up and I was like, fuck, I forgot to
Speaker 4: be straight.
Speaker 1: Oh my plan forgot to be straight.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to add that I'm from Skochie, so yeah,
Speaker 2: I always love North. Then you did theater in Chicago, right,
Speaker 2: you did, like the Steppenwolf.
Speaker 4: And a bunch never this step everybody, but I think
Speaker 4: Goodman remains body Politech, uh, Wisdom Bridge. I got the Goodman,
Speaker 4: never stepped the most. They were sort of a closed shop.
Speaker 3: They were like, did you drink at old Town Alehouse.
Speaker 4: Everywhere? But I didn't I drink. I drank everywhere up
Speaker 4: and down Lincoln Avenue down, you know, I was a waiter,
Speaker 4: I thank god, everywhere, Yeah, everywhere, crazy crazy, crazy crazy.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember specifically Becau, because you
Speaker 1: are so prolific and you've done so many things, but like,
Speaker 1: do you remember with Sbu, like being on season one
Speaker 1: and then being on season fourteen, like flashing forward thirteen
Speaker 1: or fourteen years later, like was there like a different
Speaker 1: vibe on the set both episodes that you did, or
Speaker 1: like had you seen how things had kind of fallen
Speaker 1: into a groove? Or like what any any memories And
Speaker 1: if the answer is I don't remember a damn thing,
Speaker 1: that's fine and we can completely erase this question.
Speaker 4: I remember a lot of things from all the different things.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I do get mixed up between
Speaker 4: what I did in Law and Order. Yeah, but you
Speaker 4: know again, I just had these you know, these flashes
Speaker 4: and these images of where we were because you know,
Speaker 4: you'd be shooting in bizarre places in the Bronx. I
Speaker 4: don't know why. You're always in the Bronx for some reason.
Speaker 4: I don't know why either that or at Chelsea Peers,
Speaker 4: and it's always four in the morning. Your call is
Speaker 4: always four in the morning. So super tired. I think
Speaker 4: of that. My entire Law and Order experience was one
Speaker 4: on lack of sleep, always on three hours. You know
Speaker 4: how I got my lines out, I don't know, because
Speaker 4: you were always super tired, super super super tired.
Speaker 1: Well, your character does get like the crap beat out
Speaker 1: of him at the beginnings.
Speaker 3: Maybe you being.
Speaker 1: Tired sort of added to that whole vibe of like
Speaker 1: your face being kind of yes, you know.
Speaker 4: It didn't have to do no no acting required, kind
Speaker 4: of yeah. And there were I know that there was
Speaker 4: a makeup guy who was there for almost the entire tenure,
Speaker 4: kind after the life you remember his name, But so
Speaker 4: you would see a lot of the old faces, and
Speaker 4: you know, they recycle, a lot of cameraman would come
Speaker 4: through that you remembered, and drivers that you remembered, and
Speaker 4: people shuffle between the different franchises, and you know, as
Speaker 4: an actor, your your your real life on the set
Speaker 4: is with the people you hang out with, and that
Speaker 4: is wardrobe, makeup, hair and makeup and camera guys, you know,
Speaker 4: because that's that's what you're hanging out with them in
Speaker 4: who you get to know the best. And I remember
Speaker 4: being very finally having that sort of continuity of those
Speaker 4: of those people that's so good.
Speaker 2: And you got to work with Resident Hattie Danny Pino
Speaker 2: officer Amara.
Speaker 4: Yes and very sweet, really wanted some scoops.
Speaker 3: So he's nice, nice guy.
Speaker 4: In fact, I remember shooting with him this one thing
Speaker 4: and we were in some sort of weird set where
Speaker 4: you were in a jail set here and right next
Speaker 4: door was the lawyer set that was a kitchen set,
Speaker 4: and it was just so you know, weird, walking through
Speaker 4: these different worlds and to go to the jail set
Speaker 4: where I was interrogated. But he was lovely. He's truly lovely.
Speaker 2: Well, you work with so many amazing talented people, and
Speaker 2: you've worked for so long, do you ever get starstruck?
Speaker 4: God? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You know, whenever you walk into
Speaker 4: a room and you see somebody you recognize, you're always
Speaker 4: kind of like, oh my god, there's that person, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean I certainly had that the very first time
Speaker 4: I worked at Jerry Orbach, because Jerry Orbach, you know,
Speaker 4: mister Lumierre. I mean, you know, it's just like it's extraordinary,
Speaker 4: and you know, and he was a song and dance
Speaker 4: man in previously and then that, and he was truly
Speaker 4: one of one of the I don't know, just nicest people.
Speaker 4: And he had a great tan and amazing sparkly teeth
Speaker 4: and sparkly eyes and just nice, I mean, just a
Speaker 4: nice man. You know. I remember very early on he
Speaker 4: he gave me a I was sitting with my wife
Speaker 4: while I just met, you know, as you do. You're
Speaker 4: an actor, this is your wife, hi, and then you
Speaker 4: sit down and you go and we were shooting and
Speaker 4: he said to me, you know, you can put your
Speaker 4: arm around her. She's your wife. And I went, oh,
Speaker 4: he goes, yeah, but you put your arm around her.
Speaker 4: And so I did. And I couldn't have done that
Speaker 4: on my own as an actor who didn't know this person.
Speaker 4: But since he said it in front of both of us,
Speaker 4: you know, the permission was given and I could do it,
Speaker 4: and it just it made it broke the ice and
Speaker 4: a really really great way. He was very generous that way,
Speaker 4: as was Ben Bratt. He was very just very very generous,
Speaker 4: very very giving, very very you know, very I just
Speaker 4: you know, and I always had that experience, you know,
Speaker 4: as far as star Truck goes starstruck, I I mean,
Speaker 4: I've been lucky enough to work with Julia Roberts acually, Julie,
Speaker 4: George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep, and you know,
Speaker 4: more than being starstruck, you sort of feel this pressure
Speaker 4: to bring the game at their level because all those
Speaker 4: people walk in the room with ready to play. None
Speaker 4: of them are coming in the room, half asked, not
Speaker 4: all books. I mean they're they're ready to play, you know.
Speaker 4: And and especially someone like Nicole Kidman, I find that,
Speaker 4: you know, she makes you just go toe to toe
Speaker 4: in a really really hard, great way. Not to mention
Speaker 4: missus Meryl Streep, who you know, is amazing to work with,
Speaker 4: Kat Debates, you know, first time, I was very intimidated
Speaker 4: by her when I first started working with her, and
Speaker 4: then I became, you know, less intimidated. But she always
Speaker 4: challenges you to bring your best, you know. Jessica Lang,
Speaker 4: you know, I had a very hard time sort of
Speaker 4: like allowing myself to be be her peer while we're
Speaker 4: working together. But you have to, you have to, you
Speaker 4: have to be there peer. You know. Just an amazing
Speaker 4: person to work with. Truly.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about being in
Speaker 1: the Ryan Murphy universe. I mean, it's like that's another
Speaker 1: universe that you're a part of. You're a part of
Speaker 1: many many universes, but there's like there's so much Ryan
Speaker 1: Murphy SVU crossover, Like Chloe Savigny has been on its,
Speaker 1: Sarah Paulson.
Speaker 3: Lily Rob, a lot of people you. You know, like
Speaker 3: so many people.
Speaker 1: Have been on this SVU and are on American Horse Story,
Speaker 1: So it's fun as a viewer of both.
Speaker 3: How's that franchise?
Speaker 4: The Ryan Murphy world is crazy? It's it's crazy good mostly.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a it's a it's a mad ride
Speaker 4: in that just the logistics of it are always mad
Speaker 4: because you don't quite know what you're doing ever, and
Speaker 4: you don't get a whole lot of clues, and you
Speaker 4: just kind of have to show up and work. It's
Speaker 4: super creative, it's super challenging in a really good way.
Speaker 4: You're given great characters, You're given great opportunity. Ryan gives
Speaker 4: people a platform, he gives people an amazing opportunities to succeed.
Speaker 4: He he really is in your corner. And I love
Speaker 4: the fact that he creates for all kinds of communities,
Speaker 4: you know. And also there's there's the rep idea which
Speaker 4: exists in the Good Wife, it exists in Law and Order,
Speaker 4: This rep of actors, this community of actors who seek
Speaker 4: to cycle in and out and always show up everywhere.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was watching Evil.
Speaker 3: Oh we Are I love I love that show, which I.
Speaker 4: Love, but it's like it's all the Good Wife people.
Speaker 4: It's like, uh oh, there's there. Michaelamorous at all.
Speaker 1: Both both SVU alums, Carrie Preston, Michael Emerson, all SBU people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I always find the overlap. My kind of
Speaker 2: where my brain is is the SVU, Sex and the
Speaker 2: City Oz. Those are my three New York like Constant,
Speaker 2: those are where everyone exists or Seinfeld like that's where
Speaker 2: everyone exists in my brain.
Speaker 4: It's really really interesting. And you know, there are some
Speaker 4: poor actors who never got on Law and Order, and
Speaker 4: they really do. It's a thing. It's a thing. You
Speaker 4: can't talk about it with them. You can't bring it up,
Speaker 4: you know, it's a thing. They just sort of like
Speaker 4: eat themselves up and kind of go. I never got
Speaker 4: on Law and Order. I never I never got a
Speaker 4: loan order.
Speaker 3: You know, Well, you got to work with a kid,
Speaker 3: you know, your daughter on this show.
Speaker 2: Does that change the vibe on a set when you
Speaker 2: have to work with the child, and how is it
Speaker 2: working with her?
Speaker 4: I've always liked kids and always been fairly you know,
Speaker 4: comfortable with kids. It's not a thing that throws me
Speaker 4: off at all. And I tend to be an actor
Speaker 4: who I will go off script at the drop of
Speaker 4: a hat. If you let me, I will, I will
Speaker 4: go over there. And so I love that kid energy
Speaker 4: that they don't really play by the rules and they
Speaker 4: don't obey things, and it's like like dogs, you know,
Speaker 4: dogs are the best actress in the world. They look,
Speaker 4: but they want to look. They do what they want
Speaker 4: to do. They just their dogs and it's it's really admirable.
Speaker 4: And and kids have that quality. And I like that,
Speaker 4: and you know, I mean I I I also you know,
Speaker 4: you've got to keep it g rated for a kid,
Speaker 4: and I get very protective about about that, you know,
Speaker 4: And so I want to make sure that their experience
Speaker 4: is good. And I'm very interested in in them having
Speaker 4: a good time, you know. I did. I did Inherit
Speaker 4: the Wind years ago on Broadway with Chris Plumber and
Speaker 4: Brian dennehy. And it's a kid named Connor. I can't
Speaker 4: remember his last name, but he was twelve at the time.
Speaker 4: Uh And and a couple of kids in that show.
Speaker 4: And what I loved about kid actors is that backstage,
Speaker 4: we're all just actors. We all sat backstage waiting to
Speaker 4: make our entrance, and there's no difference between Chris Plumber
Speaker 4: at eighty and Connor at twelve. They're all just actors.
Speaker 4: And you turn to Chris and you kind of go,
Speaker 4: good weekend and he's like, yeah, yeah, And turn to
Speaker 4: Connedy kind of go, would you have a good good weekend? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 4: what'd you guys do? I hang out with some buddies. Yeah,
Speaker 4: me too, Me too. It's the same thing. You know,
Speaker 4: they're actors. And I love that about the world of
Speaker 4: an actor is that you don't have a age hierarchy.
Speaker 4: You know, you're you're an actor. You're an actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I bet kids love too because it's you
Speaker 1: always just want to be treated like an adult, and
Speaker 1: that maybe that's one of the reasons why kids want
Speaker 1: to be in that world so much. Do you like,
Speaker 1: like I said, your IMDb is like just so extensive,
Speaker 1: Like do you have like favorite roles that you've played
Speaker 1: or like, as I know you have played so many
Speaker 1: different things with Ryan Murphy and like and Big Little Lies,
Speaker 1: so many different things, Like do you have a favorite
Speaker 1: or or a top three?
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I do I have parts that
Speaker 4: I that I really loved playing. I have to say
Speaker 4: sticking in the Law and Order franchise that I played
Speaker 4: a schizophrenic in a law and order years ago who
Speaker 4: was his own lawyer, And there was a really challenging
Speaker 4: episode to shoot, and I remember being very I don't know,
Speaker 4: it was hard to do. However, two things about it.
Speaker 4: One was and out played my sister. Yes, the great,
Speaker 4: the great, the great and legend. Yeah, and we were
Speaker 4: we were in Garden State together, even though we didn't
Speaker 4: play together the same movie. And I knew her big
Speaker 4: Vega from Chicago. Anyway, she played my sister in that,
Speaker 4: which was extraordinary anyway, And I'll never forget on my coverage,
Speaker 4: I had this scene right to turn around and look
Speaker 4: at my sister and she breaks down, and I break down,
Speaker 4: and every single take off camera camera not on her
Speaker 4: and out full tears, full breakdown. Wow, because she was
Speaker 4: supporting me, she was giving it to me. And I
Speaker 4: remember thinking, save it for yourself, honey, you got to
Speaker 4: save it, You got to save it for yourself. But
Speaker 4: she didn't. She was just like full on all the time. Incredible,
Speaker 4: such a problem, such a probe. And you know that episode.
Speaker 4: So many people have remembered that episode and referenced that episode,
Speaker 4: and I think it's one of those things that has
Speaker 4: helped people who deal with relatives or a schizophrenic or
Speaker 4: who have an experienced a schizophrenia, and they find it
Speaker 4: very cathartic or very moving. And it's not, as actors,
Speaker 4: what we expect our work to do. But it's really
Speaker 4: satisfying when our work has another effect beyond just entertainment,
Speaker 4: that it actually is therapeutic. And so I've always been
Speaker 4: proud of that episode for that reason that it seems
Speaker 4: to have affected people in a helpful way. And you know,
Speaker 4: and the book end of that is playing Liz Taylor
Speaker 4: in American Horror Story in Hotel kind of the same thing.
Speaker 4: You know. We went into that character. I had no
Speaker 4: idea what that character was. Ryan Murphy just said, you're
Speaker 4: playing Liz. She has a Cleopatra eye, gorgeous. You're gonna
Speaker 4: love her shaved head, gorgeous. That's all I got. That's
Speaker 4: all I got as a character to go. I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: I didn't want to play it. I had no interest
Speaker 4: in playing. I was like, I don't want to know this.
Speaker 4: I put off investigating and I put it off working
Speaker 4: on it. I was like, ah, And then when we
Speaker 4: got there, you know, and I got into my high heels,
Speaker 4: my lue batons. It just kind of like it just
Speaker 4: all came together. The character came fully formed. But I
Speaker 4: didn't we didn't know that she was on a gender journey,
Speaker 4: that she was a transgender character at that point, and
Speaker 4: I didn't know that. I thought this was someone who
Speaker 4: had a male a male life, and a female life,
Speaker 4: and didn't realize that she identified as transgender. And I
Speaker 4: don't think the writers knew that either, And that became
Speaker 4: a reality as we got into the episodes, and so
Speaker 4: my journey as an actor was also mirrored in her
Speaker 4: journey as a character. It was really really interesting that
Speaker 4: was also a character I had a hard time playing
Speaker 4: in that I found it difficult to let go of.
Speaker 4: Of shooting days, I found it. I found shooting days traumatic.
Speaker 4: I found the aftermath traumatic but really rewarding. And uh,
Speaker 4: and again, that's a character that a lot of people
Speaker 4: relate to and have come up to me and and
Speaker 4: and said thank you, which again is a great sort
Speaker 4: of amazing. It makes you feel like you're doing something
Speaker 4: useful in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you get recognized? Sorry, the most like
Speaker 2: on the streets when you're approached, you.
Speaker 4: Know it's funny. It's funny. Charles Abernathy Judged The Good Wife,
Speaker 4: Russell Edgington, the vampire King in Mississippi, and usually Taylor
Speaker 4: from American Horror Story you know, or sometimes Larry from
Speaker 4: season one of Horror Story. It's it's usually those those
Speaker 4: two guys. I mean, I can tell a lot about
Speaker 4: a person. I can usually tell from fifty paces what
Speaker 4: they're going to know me from.
Speaker 1: If I saw you on the street before this as VU,
Speaker 1: I think it would for me have been true Blood.
Speaker 4: True Blood. Russell. Yeah, it's really funny. I mean I could,
Speaker 4: I could almost almost pick it out. And of course
Speaker 4: there are those people who completely baffle me and surprise
Speaker 4: me and they're like, oh my god, you were so
Speaker 4: good as Ed Grell and Poe. I'm like, what, no
Speaker 4: one watch that you watch that? You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: It's good for you. I'm so happy you watch That's
Speaker 4: so funny.
Speaker 3: Do you want to direct? Is that something that you
Speaker 3: want to do or not? I don't know, No, no,
Speaker 3: maybe the first cool.
Speaker 4: I'm a writer, though, and so I you know, I've
Speaker 4: written a movie of mine, the Party Glass, and was
Speaker 4: in it, and I've pitched a pilot and nobody wanted.
Speaker 4: They all were like, oh, I got an amazing pitch
Speaker 4: and nobody bought it. And so I'm now turning into
Speaker 4: a novel and I've written eight hundred pages and now
Speaker 4: I'm on my third rewrite. I'm hoping to get it
Speaker 4: down about four fifty. It's a dystopian novel. I write plays.
Speaker 4: So I've written two plays in my friendly So Peterson,
Speaker 4: a play called an Elia, which I do a one
Speaker 4: man show, and then The Good Book, I play about
Speaker 4: the Bible which I would love, which has done at
Speaker 4: the Birthday rep. And let me have a third play
Speaker 4: called The Song of Rome, about the Fall of Rome,
Speaker 4: which we are going to be premiering in Romania this
Speaker 4: coming up June. So that's where my creative other thing
Speaker 4: comes in is writing, not so much directing. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't have the director bone. I don't have that desire.
Speaker 4: I just don't. I don't think I have the vision
Speaker 4: or whatever it is. I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 4: I have that vision.
Speaker 1: We don't want to keep you all day or anything,
Speaker 1: but are there any thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time to talk to us. Are there projects that
Speaker 1: you shout out, like, besides the Nevers, which I know
Speaker 1: is is currently on or is you know the Nevers?
Speaker 4: We we We showed the first six on HBO and
Speaker 4: then the next six for finishing up, and I think
Speaker 4: it'll be out next April May June. Not not up
Speaker 4: to me, above my pay grade, but wonderful actors Laura.
Speaker 6: Donnelly, Uh, Olivia Williams and Skelly Amy Manson, Ben Ben Chaplin,
Speaker 6: Jim Norton, Tom Riley, James Norton, sorry Tom Riley.
Speaker 4: Just really a great group of actors, paper directors, and yeah,
Speaker 4: and a really cool set, you know. I mean Joss
Speaker 4: Whedon was our first showrunner, and then Josh left and
Speaker 4: Philip A. Gossa came in. Uh, and it's a really
Speaker 4: it's really a cool female team. I must say, I'm
Speaker 4: loving watching this industry finally wake up. And I've been
Speaker 4: lucky in my care to be in directed by some
Speaker 4: great female directors. We have a great female DP. I
Speaker 4: love female camera ops. I love the fact that a
Speaker 4: lot of the first aids are female. Now, I love
Speaker 4: the fact a lot of the gaffers, the focus pullers
Speaker 4: are girls or women. It's it's about time and I
Speaker 4: love it, and the same with people of color. You know,
Speaker 4: when I worked on The Good The Good Fight in
Speaker 4: New York, I was so gratified to finally see crews
Speaker 4: that weren't all white. And you know, it's just so
Speaker 4: nice to finally see the industry changing. It's got a
Speaker 4: long way to go, but it's going there. It's moving
Speaker 4: in the right direction, and I'm thrilled about that.
Speaker 3: What a dream guest.
Speaker 1: I love him like he's just fully up in London
Speaker 1: at eleven PM, just chatting away with us with stage
Speaker 1: blood on yes, with stage blood on his hands and
Speaker 1: in his beard, like I mean.
Speaker 2: And we stopped recording, but I think you'd all like
Speaker 2: to know that to top off his night, he was
Speaker 2: gonna go watch drag Race and we can't believe it, right,
Speaker 2: he goes.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna go watch drag Race. We were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you tell us, yeah, But check out Dennis O'Hare in
Speaker 1: the second half of the first season of The Never's
Speaker 1: on HBO.
Speaker 3: It sounds like a cool show. And I love so talented.
Speaker 2: Talking to someone who doesn't want to be a director,
Speaker 2: because that is something that I personally would never I
Speaker 2: never want to do. But it seems like every actor
Speaker 2: professional is like I can't wait to do that. So
Speaker 2: I thought I was like lazy or something. And then
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just not that's not in your heart,
Speaker 2: like how you say to me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Lisa, what you should do is you should
Speaker 1: just make a spreadsheet put all your passwords in it.
Speaker 3: And you're like, Kara, that's in your heart. That's not
Speaker 3: for me, Like and I get that, you know.
Speaker 2: So it was just cool to talk to someone that
Speaker 2: is so accomplished, doing so much and he's like, I'm
Speaker 2: happy to yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I don't need Yeah, And he is working and he
Speaker 1: has a beautiful husband and child, a beautiful family.
Speaker 3: He's a wonderful person and theater and he's right.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just for what a Christmas miracle,
Speaker 2: I guess I would say someone, Yeah, Well, if.
Speaker 1: We want to jump into our post mortem, I'll say.
Speaker 1: One thing I learned is that many actors were about
Speaker 1: to become priests.
Speaker 3: I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's like a pretty that's well, you know
Speaker 1: what's funny. It's like how a lot of comics were lawyers,
Speaker 1: like a ton of comment like guy Branham Giraldo like
Speaker 1: all these people, I guess we're in law school or
Speaker 1: like the Lucas brothers, like we're.
Speaker 3: In law school or became lawyers and then.
Speaker 1: But that kind of makes sense to me because it's
Speaker 1: like argumentative, analytical, you know, like becoming a like wanting
Speaker 1: to be a priest. I just don't know that because I,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm not Catholic, so I don't really
Speaker 1: think of I think of Catholic mass as boring as fuck,
Speaker 1: not like a show you put on.
Speaker 2: But you know, well a show is way to look
Speaker 2: at it, because to me, like religion's always like rules
Speaker 2: you have to do, Like it doesn't seem as free.
Speaker 2: But for him, he was like you get to chat
Speaker 2: a little, get the crowd going, you know, like there's
Speaker 2: a project show, smoke a cigar. Like I guess, yeah,
Speaker 2: I never I never it that way. I mean what
Speaker 2: we learn every week. I would have to say is
Speaker 2: believe victims. Yeah, believe victims.
Speaker 3: They have nothing to benefit from lying.
Speaker 1: But I will say, just if you are trying to
Speaker 1: vigilante some shit for your sister, just let's just double check.
Speaker 3: Let's just confirm that you got the right person. You know,
Speaker 3: and we learn, as we learn all the.
Speaker 1: Time on the show, that eyewitness accounts are not accurate,
Speaker 1: like everybody had Sam Pegg does the guy who was
Speaker 1: beating up this priest and that was it was not true.
Speaker 2: So you know, Also we learned that Warner wants to
Speaker 2: fuck Finn. Hopefully maybe I.
Speaker 1: Think we did, but I was a question for one
Speaker 1: of them when we get them on for sure, and
Speaker 1: maybe things have changed.
Speaker 2: But you know, I've been on a tear this month.
Speaker 2: I have been watching all SVU twenty four to seven
Speaker 2: in the Home and.
Speaker 3: In the Home RRA.
Speaker 2: Melinda talked about a husband in one of the episodes.
Speaker 2: Oh and so she had been married. We don't know
Speaker 2: if there was a divorce, he could have died. I mean,
Speaker 2: who fucking knows. But she does mention a husband in
Speaker 2: previous episodes. But it doesn't mean they could have an
Speaker 2: open thing. They've been together a long time. We don't know,
Speaker 2: who knows.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just like a whole vibe with the
Speaker 1: way she's talking to Olivia about how she's gonna get
Speaker 1: some over the holiday and she's not going to fin
Speaker 1: Maybe it's also just some good old fashioned flirting, like
Speaker 1: maybe it's like I'm married, you know, you got a
Speaker 1: girlfriend or something, but let's just have some fun at
Speaker 1: this Morgue Christmas party.
Speaker 2: I also learned that I have a goal, and my
Speaker 2: goal is I want to work so much hopefully that
Speaker 2: I don't remember that I just yeah, I'm like, wait, what.
Speaker 1: Year was this? That would be impossible for you, though,
Speaker 1: Like you just have such a good memory. You'd be like, no,
Speaker 1: remember on day four of shooting when we ate this
Speaker 1: at that, Like, you just like have such a good
Speaker 1: memory for everything. And I think that there's no way
Speaker 1: that you'll work so much that you'll forget stuff. You're
Speaker 1: just gonna always just be that girl.
Speaker 2: I actually brought up a show that I worked on
Speaker 2: someone with and we're still all young, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: remember we did that game show and they had no recollection.
Speaker 2: They're like, can you tell me about this gig? And
Speaker 2: they did multiple episodes with no recollection at all. That
Speaker 2: seems cool. Maybe one day I would love to just
Speaker 2: mix it up and be like, wait, was that on
Speaker 2: SVU or Original?
Speaker 1: I know to do so much Dick Wolls that you're like,
Speaker 1: was I on Chicago Med or was that criminal Intent?
Speaker 2: And then of course I told him the one theater
Speaker 2: he doesn't work in Chicago. I was like, oh, of
Speaker 2: course Stepan, Well, of course the one he probably liked.
Speaker 3: And then you said what about this bar? And he's
Speaker 3: like everywhere but that.
Speaker 1: He was like, why can't we connect? No, Northwestern to
Speaker 1: me is like I don't know a lot.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 3: I like the idea of it because I bet.
Speaker 2: Those people could have gotten into more traditional IVY League
Speaker 2: quote unquote fancier places.
Speaker 3: The Northwestern is fancy.
Speaker 2: There's just something about choosing the Midwest being a while
Speaker 2: cat that I just respect.
Speaker 1: And when I was growing up, like my town was
Speaker 1: very obsessed with IVS and like that whole college thing,
Speaker 1: but Northwestern was like right there, like you might as
Speaker 1: well have been going too. It was so so impressive
Speaker 1: to get into.
Speaker 3: Oh it's tough.
Speaker 1: I didn't even apply. Really, yeah, no, I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: gotten into Northwestern.
Speaker 2: I mean I always think about if I didn't drop
Speaker 2: out of Iowa State and like finished with my degree
Speaker 2: in ames Iowa, what my life would be like and
Speaker 2: like worked at the call center, Like I just life
Speaker 2: goes so many ways, But I do wonder if I
Speaker 2: would have ever figured out my heart or given up
Speaker 2: on my dreams?
Speaker 3: Who knows, I don't know. Who knows.
Speaker 2: Why can't we just have a sliding doors technology? Like,
Speaker 2: why can't they figure that out for us?
Speaker 3: We want to.
Speaker 2: I want to see what my life would have been
Speaker 2: like if I graduated from Iowa.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you chose this path and you
Speaker 1: were able to tell me about a man getting a
Speaker 1: crucifix ram down his throat.
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's all I care about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyone is artistic that listens, and you want to
Speaker 2: give us a recreational drawing that we can hang out.
Speaker 4: I want it.
Speaker 3: I want it. You want fan art of a death
Speaker 3: bikers a fix throat?
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I can be a little angel saint flying watching.
Speaker 2: I don't know how talented you are out there, but
Speaker 2: you know, send it, send it over, send it over
Speaker 2: pds to get.
Speaker 3: Some whack ass fan art. I can't wait.
Speaker 2: That's actually what I Yeah, we want fan art, bitches,
Speaker 2: get us fan art. We want fan art, and we
Speaker 2: would love to touch on this. You know you had
Speaker 2: to wait a week, you know, time machine stuff. But
Speaker 2: a dugger, A dugger is in jail, finally sentenced Josh
Speaker 2: Duggar found guilty of possessing and downloading child pornography.
Speaker 3: Do you know how much you got? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what his sentence is yet, but he's
Speaker 1: been found guilty, and he's been found guilty in federal
Speaker 1: court of you know, his possession of child's sex.
Speaker 2: Okay, eighteen minutes ago, Jim, Bob and Michelle break their silent.
Speaker 3: Oh, they actually didn't do the worst thing.
Speaker 2: Hearts and prayers to anyone who has been harmed through
Speaker 2: sexual child abuse material.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that they know the correct wording. They have
Speaker 1: some kind of pr someone from TLC is helping them.
Speaker 2: The fact that they use child abuse images. I am like, yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of impressed with the Duggers for a moment because
Speaker 2: he was trying to claim.
Speaker 1: One of our listeners wrote us in and had like
Speaker 1: kind of a personal connection to a witness in this
Speaker 1: case and said he was trying to claim that like
Speaker 1: other people had access to his computer and that those
Speaker 1: were the people with the images, and it was like, Okay, dog,
Speaker 1: that's not really Oh no.
Speaker 2: His wife, Josh's wife Anna, just welcomed their seventh child
Speaker 2: in the f.
Speaker 1: You know what's wild. Her name is Madison. Your husband
Speaker 1: got busted on Ashley Madison. Why would you name your
Speaker 1: kid Madison? Oh my god, I thought you were saying
Speaker 1: her name. I go no, it says Anna, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: the baby, the baby's name. And I can't take credit
Speaker 1: for that. That was a listener that Drew that brought
Speaker 1: that to our attention and was like, don't you think
Speaker 1: it's crazy?
Speaker 3: And I was like, yes, that is crazy.
Speaker 2: As parents, we will never stop praying for Joshua and
Speaker 2: loving him as we do all our children. In each
Speaker 2: of life's circumstances, we place trust in God, strength, refuge, prayers. Okay,
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know, but I'm glad he's found guilty.
Speaker 2: I like when people are found guilty of crimes they've committed,
Speaker 2: you know. And in our Kyle Rittenhouse world we live in,
Speaker 2: we never fucking know what's gonna happen. Our judicial system
Speaker 2: is a joke so much that nice to just hear
Speaker 2: someone getting caught.
Speaker 1: And now we talked about him in we talked about
Speaker 1: the Duggers in our episode Patrimonial Burden, but then we
Speaker 1: also talked about child sex abuse images in Downloaded childs.
Speaker 1: So some people were saying they hope that he has
Speaker 1: to give some restitution to the victims.
Speaker 3: Of his you know, the people that are in the images. Wow,
Speaker 3: we have such smart listeners. Yeah, all right, well let's
Speaker 3: ease into our what would sister peg do?
Speaker 1: Girl?
Speaker 3: What do you got for us?
Speaker 1: Every week we give you a you know, an organization,
Speaker 1: a book, an article, something that will give you some
Speaker 1: more information on the topic that we touched on in
Speaker 1: today's episode.
Speaker 3: And I wanted this week to highlight Honestly.
Speaker 1: I first heard about this this organization through a joke
Speaker 1: that my husband does on his album. But it is
Speaker 1: an actual, very important organization. It's called the Survivor's Network
Speaker 1: of Those Abused by Priests and it's SNAP and so
Speaker 1: the website is www dot snapnetwork dot org and it's
Speaker 1: the oldest, largest and most active support group for women
Speaker 1: and men wounded by religious and institutional authorities. That's priests, ministers, bishops, deacons, nuns, coaches,
Speaker 1: teachers like. It's very inclusive and their goal is to
Speaker 1: provide support to survivors through their hotline and to advocate
Speaker 1: for a reform of statute of limitation laws that limit
Speaker 1: criminal prosecution and civil responsibilities for these users.
Speaker 3: So again, Yeah.
Speaker 1: If you want to learn more, check out www dot
Speaker 1: dot Snapnetwork dot org and that will be up on
Speaker 1: our Instagram stories in our WWSPD highlight.
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks Kara. And then for next week, we're doing
Speaker 2: Hell's Kitchen. That's a season twenty episode eight, great episode.
Speaker 3: Watch on Hulu peacock. You can rent stuff from your library.
Speaker 1: Go to a friend's last episode, last episode of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one.
Speaker 2: Baby, We'll be Hell's Kitchen. Yeah, amazing. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for listening.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Annalise Snelson, and
Speaker 2: to our mixing engineer ryo Bound, and to Henry Kaperski
Speaker 2: for our theme song, and to Carly Geen Andrews for
Speaker 2: our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers, Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3: Dun, dun,