1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,240
Speaker 1: Well, I'm coming on Thursday another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

2
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that this is the most

3
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:15,000
Speaker 1: enthusiastic episode in light of the tragic events in Utah,

4
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: the assassination, the killing of Charlie Kirk, a conservative political activist.

5
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: It's horrific, it's sickening. What's really awful about this is

6
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,400
Speaker 1: that it also happened on a college campus where we

7
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,480
Speaker 1: should be celebrating speech. That's what he was doing, expressing

8
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,680
Speaker 1: political speech, making a political argument, exactly what this country

9
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: was founded on, what every college campus in America embraces

10
00:00:49,680 --> 00:01:03,959
Speaker 1: and should embrace. And we get this violence. There's there's

11
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of finger pointing. There already is,

12
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 1: and I think we you know, I hope everybody realizes

13
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: that when they point the finger, they're also pointing at themselves.

14
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: Because everybody in the political arena, we all, everybody needs

15
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,760
Speaker 1: to do soul searching. You know, we're we're in a

16
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 1: tinder box of our own making. Political violence is happening

17
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:42,679
Speaker 1: far too often. It was just June in Minnesota when

18
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 1: you had somebody stock state legislatures, legislators killing killing them

19
00:01:51,080 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 1: in Minnesota, there's no political movement or party that is

20
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: immune from what we've seen, and so anybody that attempts

21
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: to try to say yeah but on this, I'm not

22
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: listening to you, and you shouldn't listen to him either.

23
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 1: This is not a yeah butt moment. This is tragedy.

24
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of this butt. We've all let

25
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: rhetoric escalate too much. It's been it's been a decade

26
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 1: of this. Okay, it's been a decade. Many of us

27
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:47,640
Speaker 1: in the land of reporting have experienced threats and have

28
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:55,079
Speaker 1: been fearful for ourselves. We're alive. Charlie's not. He was

29
00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:01,639
Speaker 1: a father, He had kids. As somebody whose father died

30
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 1: at sixteen, I can't imagine not having a father at five.

31
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,520
Speaker 1: At least I had my dad for sixteen years. His

32
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:18,400
Speaker 1: kids won't all over a political dispute, a disagreement. The

33
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 1: whole point You've heard me say it before, but I'm

34
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 1: going to say it till I'm bluwing my face. The

35
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:32,080
Speaker 1: whole reason human beings created invented this idea of politics negotiation,

36
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 1: was so that we could resolve disputes without violence. That's

37
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:45,280
Speaker 1: why I love politics. When you resolve disputes with violence,

38
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 1: you're no longer practicing politics. You're practicing nihilism. Maybe you're broken,

39
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,680
Speaker 1: and we got to ask ourselves what are we doing here?

40
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 1: You know? And and we're all going to want some

41
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 1: entity or somebody to blame because we hate moments like this.

42
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: I'm looking for somebody to blame. I'm not going to

43
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 1: lie to you. I think the way we amplify rhetoric

44
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 1: in this country the incentive structure in the information ecosystem,

45
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 1: which gives extreme rhetoric and a greater opportunity to circulate

46
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:38,760
Speaker 1: rather than nuanced conversation or respectful political debate. The algorithms

47
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 1: don't seem to favor those things. Far too easy for

48
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 1: broken people to get a weapon. The point is there's

49
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,479
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons we got here. There's no one

50
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: reason over another. There's a ton of contributing factors. We

51
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,119
Speaker 1: desperately need some political leadership in this country right now

52
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,479
Speaker 1: that wants to unify. Nobody says we have to agree

53
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 1: on everything, but we do need to agree that our

54
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 1: constitution gives us these rights to speech. We have a

55
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 1: right to disagree. We should stop dehumanizing. This is a

56
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 1: huge problem with political cranks on the left and right

57
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 1: who want to make who want to dehumanize their political opponents,

58
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: because once you dehumanize a political opponent, then you stop

59
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:40,480
Speaker 1: seeing them as three dimensional people, as fathers, as husbands,

60
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: as wives, as mothers, and you just see them as

61
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: enemy combatants or two dimensional figures. So I'm going to

62
00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:00,719
Speaker 1: be honest, I'm very fearful of the of the real

63
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 1: of whether we have the responsible leaders to meet the

64
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 1: moment that we're in right now. History is you know, look,

65
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: the history of this country has a lot of political violence.

66
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 1: Doesn't justify political violence happening though. Just because it has

67
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: happened in the past doesn't mean we have to repeat it.

68
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: You know. I've often had heard some historians, you know,

69
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: try to say, hey, you know what's happening now, it's

70
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: not as bad as the eighteen fifties, it's not as

71
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: bad as the nineteen fifties or nineteen sixties. Well, this

72
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,919
Speaker 1: is where the era we're living in now, and it

73
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,479
Speaker 1: feels bad. So I don't give a damn whether it's

74
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 1: it was worse before or not. This seems pretty bad

75
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 1: that you can't go on a college campus and express

76
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: your opinion without being shot and killed. That's not supposed

77
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 1: to happen in America. So it's far too often we've

78
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: had these moments where something like this happens and we realize,

79
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 1: wait a minute, we've got to take a step back.

80
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: You know, after Gabby Gifford's in twenty eleven, there was

81
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: a let's take a step back, and we had a

82
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: couple of stated unions in a row where the two

83
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,600
Speaker 1: parties sat with each other and didn't didn't sort of

84
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 1: split each other up. We've lost this ability to see

85
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 1: each other as Americans before, whether regardless of whether somebody

86
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:49,880
Speaker 1: is wearing a blue or red jersey, we're in a

87
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,560
Speaker 1: compet We should be in a competition for ideas. We

88
00:07:54,560 --> 00:08:03,760
Speaker 1: should be persuading. We shouldn't celebrate pugilism when you know,

89
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: all there's a lot of actions that have taken place,

90
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,239
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to sit here and single out

91
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: an action on the left or an action on the right,

92
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 1: because I'm not going to let this algorithm or let

93
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 1: some Yahoo try to weaponize something I said, to try

94
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 1: to disparage a whole group of people, whether journalists, whether whoever.

95
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 1: The point is everybody in elective office, everybody in the

96
00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,679
Speaker 1: political arena, every one of us who've covered politics, we've

97
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 1: been we know we've been walking on eggshell's. We know

98
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,800
Speaker 1: that there is that this, the way politics has been

99
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 1: conducted over the last ten years, is not going to

100
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 1: lead us to a better place. And here we are.

101
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 1: You know, there's an expression that sometimes before things get better,

102
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:04,079
Speaker 1: things have to get worse. Sometimes things just keep getting worse.

103
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: If we want things to get better, we have to

104
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,439
Speaker 1: actually want things to get better. We have to realize

105
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 1: that the whole point of this experiment that is America.

106
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 1: We're different than every other country. We're an idea. Despite

107
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 1: what some really uninformed senator said the other day that

108
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,760
Speaker 1: disputed the idea that America was an idea, wanted to

109
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,080
Speaker 1: believe it was some ethnic or like minded thing. It's

110
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,960
Speaker 1: an idea based on those principles and those Bill of Rights,

111
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,920
Speaker 1: based on the principle of freedom, freedom of expression, freedom

112
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,760
Speaker 1: of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom

113
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,480
Speaker 1: of assembly. We don't want the government to get in

114
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,680
Speaker 1: the way of that, and we certainly don't want individuals

115
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: to take it away from people like that was taken

116
00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 1: away from Charlie. So it's I think we've underreacted to

117
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 1: all the political violence that's been taking place over the

118
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 1: last few years, the assassinations in Minnesota, the assassination attempts

119
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:23,880
Speaker 1: against President Trump. I don't know if there's a lot

120
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 1: of credibility with elected members here in Washington, left or

121
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,960
Speaker 1: right to get together and try to do something, But

122
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: I'd like to see that happen. I'd like to see

123
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 1: the president address the nation and say this, we've got

124
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: to stop. We've got to sort of sit back. You know,

125
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: there's I could be cynical and say, oh, maybe not

126
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:54,040
Speaker 1: this president doesn't matter who's president. It should everybody should.

127
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 1: He should want us unified. He does. Maybe he wants

128
00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,679
Speaker 1: us unified in his own terms, but he needs to

129
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 1: add us the country be the He's everybody's president. Everybody

130
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,880
Speaker 1: needs to make an attempt to turn the temperature down.

131
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 1: I think the people we expect to rise to the

132
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: occasion will, but this moment calls for people to rise

133
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 1: to the occasion that you don't expect. So I'm going

134
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 1: to hold out some hope because the country needs it again.

135
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 1: Unity doesn't mean agreeing unity. It means you're agreeing to

136
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 1: the process. We've agreed that how elections go, we're going

137
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:43,440
Speaker 1: to let them go. Where you know who wins, We're

138
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 1: going to accept accept winning. And the problem is when

139
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 1: you don't, right, you start eroding things. And we keep

140
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,560
Speaker 1: and over the last ten years, we've just eroded these

141
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 1: things little by little. I think we've compartmentalized it a

142
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 1: little bit. And I can't help but go back to

143
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 1: our information ecosystem and how warped it is intentionally become

144
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:19,559
Speaker 1: by the algorithms and by these tech companies. This most

145
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: of US Americans live between the thirty yard lines, and temperamentally,

146
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: I think most Americans live between the thirty yard lines.

147
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 1: There is an extreme fringe that is super online, that

148
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 1: gets whipped up praise on the lonely, praise on the angry,

149
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 1: praise on the othered. Right. When you otherize somebody, they

150
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 1: may start outherising themselves. So the point is is that

151
00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 1: every action creates a reaction, Every attack creates a rationale

152
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: to counterattack, and that's what we have to prevent in

153
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,640
Speaker 1: this moment. So it's going to be a test of

154
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 1: our political leadership. It would be easy for me to

155
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 1: say here, I don't expect that we have the leaders

156
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: to meet this moment, because look at what happened over

157
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,600
Speaker 1: the last decade. But hope Spring's eternal, and you never

158
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,560
Speaker 1: know when the moment comes where somebody realizes enough is enough.

159
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 1: I hope this is the enough is enough moment. I

160
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: thought the attack, you know, I think we all thought

161
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,559
Speaker 1: the attack on the Minnesota legislatures would be enough is

162
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 1: enough moment. I think we thought seeing first graders massacred

163
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 1: would be enough is enough moment. I think we thought

164
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: a presidential assassination attempt would be enough is enough moment.

165
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,319
Speaker 1: I thought maybe pipe bombs showing up in people's mailboxes

166
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,559
Speaker 1: would be enough is enough moment. You get where I'm

167
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,080
Speaker 1: going here, But there will be that moment where enough

168
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: is enough. Let's hope this is a moment that there's

169
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: enough is enough. My conversation today, by the ways, with

170
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:21,120
Speaker 1: a Congressman Greg Landsman. He's a Democrat from Cincinnati, Ohio. Uh,

171
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: the interview, we did not know yet that Charlie Kirk

172
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 1: had died when the interview began, but we didn't know

173
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 1: he had been shot. So when you do listen to

174
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: the interview, do know that timing we were basically, we

175
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 1: had scheduled the taping when we did, and we spend

176
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,440
Speaker 1: a good chunk of time on it for obvious reasons.

177
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 1: He is somebody that is that is that has wants

178
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 1: to tack to the center, especially temperamentally. And that's you know,

179
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 1: when when when I get when I get attacked by

180
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 1: the left and the right for you know, I'm I

181
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: believe in in centering this country temperamentally, right, it's I

182
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 1: believe in incrementalism because in order to not scare people

183
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,880
Speaker 1: away or force people into horrible corners, or or or

184
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 1: having them feel nihilistic, you move an inch at a

185
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 1: time because you can bring more people along when you

186
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 1: try to make radical transformation. It can incentivize counter radicalization.

187
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,400
Speaker 1: And it feels like we're in this escalatory moment where

188
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 1: there's a radicalization and the rationale to radicalize, et cetera,

189
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 1: et cetera. Right, it has to stop now. We need

190
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: some help. These algorithms that incentivize and reward jack assery

191
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: and crazy rhetoric left and right are feeding into this.

192
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: And you never know when somebody's on the verge of

193
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 1: a mental breakdown and them post sets them off and

194
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: they go out and get a weapon and do damage.

195
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 1: So we have we have a lot of work to do,

196
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I I'd like to believe I want

197
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 1: to continue to make this a home where we have

198
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 1: responsible debate, that we have respectful disagreements, and I'm gonna

199
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hope that the leadership in this country at

200
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 1: this moment finds a way to rise up and meet

201
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 1: the moment. And if we don't have the leaders to

202
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,920
Speaker 1: meet the moment, express your anger at the ballot box.

203
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 1: That's what we have. Don't express your anger other ways

204
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:59,359
Speaker 1: like that. Peacefully protests. Sure, write your letters to the editor, great,

205
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 1: send nasty grams. You could do that. People don't read

206
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,800
Speaker 1: that stuff. Have respectful criticism. A lot of people like

207
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 1: to read respectful criticism. So the point is, we all

208
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 1: play a role here. Don't amplify crazy rhetoric. Just because

209
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 1: you really want to believe your political opponent has an

210
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:32,880
Speaker 1: awful idea doesn't always mean they're an awful person. Good

211
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,199
Speaker 1: people can have bad ideas. They I don't know my

212
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,040
Speaker 1: neighbor's political beliefs. They seem like pretty good people. I'm

213
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,040
Speaker 1: not going to judge them by the ideas that they have,

214
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: judge them as humans that way. So again, we all

215
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 1: play a role, and more importantly, we need to expect.

216
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: We need a police whichever side of the aisle you're on.

217
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,880
Speaker 1: Don't reward or more importantly, make excuses for hateful rhetoric,

218
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 1: hateful actions. That's what I'm already seeing a little bit

219
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 1: of on social media, some of which I think is

220
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 1: again an algorithm intentionally curates it in order to keep

221
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: you angry, keep you on these on these platforms. Unfortunately,

222
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 1: there's a financial incentive. As you know, I refuse to

223
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 1: play that partisan game, but that's that's they have a

224
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 1: huge they play a huge role here. I'm hoping we

225
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:55,199
Speaker 1: get some bipartisan concern about this from our elected officials.

226
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 1: It's the only way it can gain some credibility. And

227
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 1: we need to look at these and these tech companies

228
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: need to take responsibility for the environment they've created. They

229
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: have created this environment. This speech is not organic. This

230
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 1: hateful rhetoric is not organic. We've had hateful rhetoric forever.

231
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 1: We've just never had a system that amplifies it and

232
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: celebrates it and allows it to be monetized like we

233
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: do today. So I know I said I began this

234
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 1: by saying, you know, I don't want to point fingers

235
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,679
Speaker 1: at any one thing, but if you're asking me to

236
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: what's number one on the list. For me, that's number

237
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 1: one on the list. It's these horrible algorithms that incentivize

238
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 1: this hateful rhetoric and amplify it and make people think

239
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 1: that it is that there are more people who believe

240
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: this garbage about each other than they actually do. We

241
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: don't have well, you know the grocery store. You don't

242
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: have people behave in this way. So again everybody has

243
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: soul searching to do. Police your side of the aisle,

244
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: win your arguments, rhetorically, disagree without being disagreeable, and express

245
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,400
Speaker 1: your concern at the ballot box. All right, we got

246
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: my interview with Greg Landsman coming up, and as I said,

247
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: the interview happened before we knew that Charlie Kirk had died,

248
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: but after he had been shot. I want to get

249
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: through the interview and then after I'll think I'm going

250
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: to do a few questions, react a little bit to

251
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: the to what would have been my lead today, which

252
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 1: was the excerpts from the Kamala Harris book. So why

253
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: don't we do that? Sneak in a break.

254
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: I don't see any other side.

255
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: Well joining me now is a democratic Congressman from Cincinnati, Ohio,

256
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: Greg Landsman, Congressman, thanks for coming into the podcast. Hey,

257
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Look, we are recording about thirty

258
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: minutes after we've all heard about the news of what

259
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: happened to Charlie Kirk from Turning Point conservative activists. Obviously,

260
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: this is yet another moment where a piece of political

261
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: violence happens. We're shocked, not surprise, surprise, not shocked. I

262
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,719
Speaker 1: don't know how else to put it, but this is

263
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: just horrific. One of the phrases I always like to

264
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: use is the reason human civilization created politics so we

265
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: could resolve disputes without violence. This happened on a college campus, Congressman,

266
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: where we should be celebrating speech. This is the first

267
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: couple of weeks of school. I remember my freshman year.

268
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 1: I was so excited about hearing different points of view.

269
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: I got to Jesse Jackson one day, Nuke Gingrich another.

270
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 1: Back in the early nineties at JW, it was it

271
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: was the best part of being And to think now

272
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: an entire and I look, I've got two kids college

273
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: right now. Oh wow, every college campus is going to

274
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: lock down, right, Every college campus is suddenly going to

275
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: be afraid of celebrating speech and we have this. It's

276
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: just we know, we've got to get out of this moment.

277
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: How do we get out of this moment?

278
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 3: I mean, look, you know, one you have to decide

279
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: as a country that this is it when we don't

280
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 3: want to do this anymore. And that's something that happens

281
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 3: collectively over some time. You know, I haven't seen the video,

282
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,239
Speaker 3: but my understanding is it's pretty horrific. Uh.

283
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: I hope tech companies taken on. I mean it's I mean,

284
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: my eighteen year old son immediately text because I've seen

285
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: the video, and you're just like, I wish that. Yeah.

286
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 3: I honestly, I've been talking about this, uh, you know,

287
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 3: for for the better part of the year, because some

288
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 3: of this has has started to hit home. I mean,

289
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: we've we've gotten our fair share of threats and and

290
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,719
Speaker 3: you know, we had people outside of our house for

291
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 3: several days.

292
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: I I am.

293
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: Obviously frustrated like everybody else at the moment, I'm hoping

294
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 3: for a miracle here that that Hitty and Charlie uh

295
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: makes it. It's not clear what's going to happen because

296
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: I obviously I don't know, but you you hope he

297
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 3: not only survives, but he recovers. Either way, it's a

298
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: it's a tragedy and a horrific thing that we have

299
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 3: to all be completely appalled by. And then there is

300
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: part of it is political rhetoric, like we all have

301
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: a better job. Everyone does. I'm very careful about what

302
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 3: I say and how I say it, but we need everyone,

303
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 3: particularly those are the top, to get their act together

304
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 3: and to appreciate that strength does not mean cruelty. Strength

305
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 3: does not mean division, Strength does not mean yet you

306
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 3: ridicule people.

307
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: Strength and kindness actually go together.

308
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, you know, you want people who

309
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: are daring and courageous and who are strong and are

310
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 3: willing to like run through a wall to get something done,

311
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: but who are also decent and kind and bring people together. Plus,

312
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 3: there is a mental health issue in this country that's undeniable.

313
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: There is a social media you know issue in this

314
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: country that's undeniable. And there's an access to guns, not

315
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: you know, everyday people, but by those who have criminal intent,

316
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 3: those who are dangerous. Access to guns by those who

317
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 3: are dangerous is a huge, huge problem. And all of

318
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 3: that comes together to create a terrible, volatile deadly situation.

319
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: You know, I think about the role of the tech companies.

320
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: This is where I I don't disagree with any of

321
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: you said I am a zero in on the tech

322
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: companies in the algorithms because I really think they have

323
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: accelerated polarization. And I think when you when you look

324
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: at it's an accelerator. It's it's one hundred percent right.

325
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: And if you get a concentrated amount you know of

326
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: of of fear or rhetoric that is designed to keep

327
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: you on a platform and anger you and fire you

328
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: up and do all of this, it does impact your brain.

329
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: And you know, whether you're sixty five or sixteen.

330
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean personally, I got off of obviously, you know,

331
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 3: as an elected you know we have I'm I'm on

332
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: substack and x and Instagram and TikTok, all of them,

333
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: and we're constantly putting out content, and you know, people

334
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: print stuff out for me. So I'm getting I'm getting

335
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 3: feedback from people, But I do everything about a month ago,

336
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 3: and it feels like I'm I'm like a month sober,

337
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: Like I'm an infinitely happier person. I'm more focused. I

338
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: think people would say I'm I'm a kind person to

339
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 3: begin with. But I have been so nice and find

340
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 3: the last month because I don't have this like awfulness

341
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 3: flooding rain all day and so I don't know. Just

342
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: one thing you can do is just delete it all

343
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 3: right now?

344
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: No, I mean, because if you think about it, unfortunately,

345
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, most of our political debate is dominated by

346
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: some fringes who this is their hobby, this is all

347
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: they have. Maybe they're lonely and this is what they have.

348
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: Maybe they're you know, and there's so much of it

349
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: right The average person is living their life and isn't

350
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: in the middle of these you know, political debates right now.

351
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: Meeting law and I hope to god I don't ever

352
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 3: download them again. But it has also helped me better

353
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 3: connect to the people who I serve because I'm I'm

354
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: I'm really just listening to them now there's no other.

355
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: Noise, do you know what I mean?

356
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: And you know, like between friends and family and staff,

357
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: like who are now my algorithm? You know, I see

358
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 3: some stuff, they send me some stuff, and you know,

359
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: I can't really log on, but let sometimes Twitter will

360
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: let you on the browser and see what it is.

361
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: But I do think that for elected officials in particular,

362
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 3: it's really really bad to be uh sitting around scrolling

363
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: on these on these platforms.

364
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: I'm not going to name names, but there's a couple

365
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: of members who are super online terrible, and I think

366
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: it's perverted their brain. There's there's a specific senator that

367
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: has warped who who I knew, I know and in

368
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: person is this fascinating, intellectually interesting person. And their online

369
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: persona is off the rails. And I blame you know.

370
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: I think they're like, I'm like, man, go hang out

371
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: with your kids, go play some video games.

372
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: I have, you know, a long list of issues with

373
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: Donald Trump and JD. Vance and this crew, uh, you know,

374
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: but on that list is the fact that they seem

375
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: to they just like they have the time.

376
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: And I don't know what they're doing to either.

377
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: I can't believe the Vice president tweets as much as

378
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: he does.

379
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 3: I'm with you, I'm very busy, as are you, and

380
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: and and including at night, you know Trump, you know,

381
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: it's tweeting in the middle of the night. I just

382
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: they which also means that they're sitting there reading all

383
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: this stuff and it just removes them from our everyday lives.

384
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: But back to the political violence piece.

385
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I do think that people need to call

386
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: out those and political leadership who cross the line, and

387
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: so do we and I when it comes to me.

388
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: But this is.

389
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: Where Republicans and Democrats should start working together to say, Okay,

390
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: there is a mental health.

391
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: Issue here, there is a social media you know.

392
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: I'm on Energy and Commerce and one of the reasons

393
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: why I joined this committee was one part healthcare, one

394
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 3: part big tech.

395
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: I want to start to hold these folks accountable.

396
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: And the best thing you could do, quite frankly, to

397
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: eliminate the litigation shield that protects these companies hudred percent.

398
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: You know, if individuals, communities have the ability to take

399
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: on Mark Zuckerberg and say you got to get this

400
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: stuff off your platform in a lawsuit, he will get

401
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 3: this stuff off their well.

402
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: Congressman, I I am look, I actually think you don't

403
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: even need to wipe out Section two thirty. I think

404
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: the law has been misinterpreted. The second Facebook created an algorithm,

405
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: they became a publisher. The second X created an algorithm,

406
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: they're a publisher. This idea that the it's a no, no,

407
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: no no. The minute you choose to push stuff or

408
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: suppress stuff. You're now a publisher. That's I've been an editor.

409
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: I've been a publisher. I choose what to put as

410
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: a headline or what not to put as a headline.

411
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: The algorithm is the decision making press you.

412
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: Created, and those companies I don't. I think this is

413
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: just flawed. I didn't go to law school, but I

414
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: play one on a podcast.

415
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: Gitting you two thirty will help that argument even more.

416
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: But yes, I take your point, but I actually think

417
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: that again, they are published this idea that they're not publishers.

418
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: Well they are now. Maybe they weren't at the beginning.

419
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: If they did a timeline, they wouldn't be. They could

420
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: they could hide behind two thirty. But they chose an algorithm.

421
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: They's publishing.

422
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, once they picked the algorithm, I think that's right.

423
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: And then you know, this is in my pledge to America.

424
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: What we're now calling the Great American Comeback is our

425
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: ten bills, right, that would fundamentally I think, fix what's

426
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: been broken not just for the last eight months but

427
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: for decades. And one of those is around public safety

428
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: and saying like we do need to have.

429
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: Reform gun safety.

430
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: Work that says, you know, folks get to keep their guns,

431
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: for sure, but we're going to be really intentional about

432
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: keeping guns away from dangerous people.

433
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: And I think you can get those.

434
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: Those reforms done if you pair it with the other

435
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: thing we which is more cops. And that's what happened

436
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: in the nineties, right Clinton said, Look, we're gun reform

437
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: done and make things safer and reduce gun violence, but

438
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: we also need one hundred thousand cops. And so that's

439
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: our twenty first century anti crime bill that I think

440
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 3: resonates with people because they see these things and they

441
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: see disgusting. You know, this should not be happening. Why

442
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: did this guy? How did this guy get a weapon?

443
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: He's clearly unwell, and a lot of gun owners, you know,

444
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: like I'm surrounded by gun owners, you know, this is

445
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: I grew up with gunner.

446
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: I'm from Southwest Ohio.

447
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 3: I think everyone on my street is a gun owner

448
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: and they feel the same way that I do, which

449
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: is there are certain people who are unwell that should

450
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: not have weapons, and this guy probably was one of them.

451
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: Well, to me, the minute you make a decision that

452
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: violence is the is the right, something is snapped, right,

453
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: I sort of know, right like the minute and you know,

454
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: I think that. I forget who used to say, you know,

455
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: we don't. America doesn't have the lion's share of mentally

456
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: ill people. We just have our mentally ill people have

457
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: access to far greater firepower than many other countries with

458
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: their mentally ill people.

459
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: We do have more mentally ill folks I think roaming around.

460
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: But yes, I mean, I do think that's something that

461
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: like my side of the aisle has to contend with,

462
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: which is you know, they're.

463
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: You know, yes, we.

464
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: Don't have bets, but we also have to have a

465
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: plan because you know, you're seeing this play out in

466
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: our cities, and Democrats have to lead in a way

467
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 3: that not only convinces people we're serious about public safety,

468
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: but demonstrates that we are because crime is going down.

469
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: So this one of the unfortunate things that's probably going

470
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: to happen is we're going to slide into this who's

471
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: whose side is more violent debate? And I this is

472
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: where I don't know if we have the leadership and

473
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: we have both parties to say that's not the answer matter?

474
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, who cares?

475
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: I mean, like you, this is where again, being off

476
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: social media is so help because all I think about

477
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 3: is like, Okay, what's my wife this? I know what

478
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: she's going to think of this, but I want to

479
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: hear from her. I want to hear from my friends.

480
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: I want to hear from my family members. I want

481
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 3: to hear from my constituents. And they're all going to

482
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 3: say the same thing. It's all going to be. This

483
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: is this has got to stop.

484
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 2: Like we can't. It doesn't matter.

485
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 3: I almost want to say that Charlie Kirk, who is

486
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 3: obviously very conservative, very outspoken, just as a political figure.

487
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 3: Don't call him anything else, just he's a political figure

488
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 3: who was shot and.

489
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: For simply expressing his opinion. Correct. That is that is

490
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: we founded our country exactly. I mean the First Amendment.

491
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: You know that we have the greatest that amendment. No

492
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: other country hasn't. I know, no other country hasn't. And

493
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: the more we behave this way, this is how you

494
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: lose it.

495
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 3: We should fight for it. And you know, I this

496
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 3: is not going to happen, but we the president should

497
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: say this is a thing. It doesn't matter the politics,

498
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter that like this has to end. Nobody

499
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 3: should ever ever ever pick up a gun or any

500
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: other you know, weapon and hurt somebody ever for any reason,

501
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: certainly not for political way.

502
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: Look, our pre this our president has was almost killed

503
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: correct and uh.

504
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: Which by the way, was one of the scariest moments

505
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 2: I remember as.

506
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: It say, I mean, it was extraordinarily scary. And you

507
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: know it's and you know, let me ask you this,

508
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: why hasn't there been like a congressional special committee to

509
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: investigate what happened in Butler and learn more about this?

510
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: It's it's been one of the strangest past. Yeah, I've

511
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: been surprised at how little and it's it's a little

512
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: demand there's been for something of there's been. There was

513
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: some after action report, but it didn't get the get

514
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: the focus that I think it does well.

515
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 3: This is This is also one of the reasons, I

516
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: think is because what was a hallmark of politics growing

517
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: up for me was a sense of bipartisanship.

518
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: There there was there was that ship is sale right now.

519
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 2: That is one of the reasons.

520
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: Why is because you know, if if if we if

521
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: the folks at the top were as bipartisan as I am,

522
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: I suspect as you are in terms of like wanting

523
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 3: to have everyone in the room. You want everyone in

524
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: the room if you're going to solve a problem.

525
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: I count on it. I don't. I'm afraid of only

526
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: one side is in a room. No matter which side it.

527
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: Is, you want, you want everyone in the room.

528
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: I want to check.

529
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 3: That's how you that's how you get to a better solution.

530
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 3: It's also how you get to a durable solution. I

531
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 3: think the challenge was everyone, you know, immediately it took

532
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: a political position on Butler, you know, and and and

533
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: some said, oh, law enforcement, uh, you know, screwed this

534
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 3: thing up, and that's the end of it. And then

535
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 3: either said no, this was you know, a crazy person

536
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 3: and this kid, and well.

537
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: He was a Democrat and the no, no, no, he

538
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: was a Republican.

539
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: It was sort of like, who cares he was a

540
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: violent individual. How did he get so broken? That's what

541
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: we need to find out. How did the kid get

542
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: so broken? How did he get a gun? How did

543
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: he get on that roof?

544
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 3: And how was he in a position on that roof

545
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: to shoot the president? Like those are the answers, and

546
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 3: then how do you sure that never happens again?

547
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: But it is it to me, it's just shocking how

548
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: little we know about the shooter, how little we know

549
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 1: about what happened there, and you know, look, I don't

550
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: know if this is going to happen. I'm skeptical it would,

551
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: but this demand, this call, This is one of those

552
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: things where if you are worried the country's in a

553
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: tender that we're in a tinder box right now, and

554
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: my concern is we are, then I don't care who

555
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: the president is. They need to address the nation and

556
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: calm the waters.

557
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: I agree, And.

558
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 1: I hope he I hope you And I hope Susie Wilds.

559
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: I know Susie wils gets it. I do, I do.

560
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope he'll he'll help embrace it. I

561
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: don't know if he can. I'm not. Look, he's you know,

562
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: we can. We can go through all the ways he

563
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: has celebrated pugilism and all that stuff. I'm not you know,

564
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter the moment. Right now, he's the president.

565
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: He can rise up, he could be he could be

566
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: so powerful if he would do this, it would be

567
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: a powerful moment for him. And if you want me

568
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: to be cynical, might be good politics for him.

569
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Barack Obama was good at this as

570
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: he was.

571
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was good at this.

572
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: George W.

573
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: Bush was good at this. Our presidents usually know how

574
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: to rise.

575
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 2: To the family this.

576
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: I mean, they really I'm going back and reading all

577
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: these inaugural dresses as part of writing this great American comeback,

578
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: and it's it.

579
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: Really.

580
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: Trump was the departure from an Ouga address that was

581
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 3: all about where we go from here and how much

582
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: better it's going to be, and how it's rooted and

583
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 3: who we are.

584
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: They all follow this formula.

585
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Of except one, I know.

586
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean he can't redeem himself.

587
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: You know. I you know, the beginning of his speech

588
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee had that feel to it for a bit.

589
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 2: That's the thing.

590
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it's always the beginning, and then

591
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 3: it just sort of he goes off script. But look,

592
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: I think we need to get to a place after

593
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: this moment.

594
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: And obviously we work in this moment, to be clear,

595
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: but I think.

596
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: We need to get to a place where we have

597
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 3: these really energized, determined, strong leaders who are willing to

598
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 3: run through a wall.

599
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: To fix this, and.

600
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 3: Who we're going to bring up, you know, the biggest

601
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: coalition of people, multi generational, multi racial, bipartisan group of

602
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 3: people together upend what's broken. And the list of things

603
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 3: that are broken is long. But our capacity to fix

604
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: things throughout our.

605
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: History, I mean it's there.

606
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: I mean we have it, and to me, we just

607
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: we we I.

608
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 2: Know this is changing the gears a little bit.

609
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: Ben. No, he was a country and certainly as a party,

610
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: my caucus, my crew, but the country too that we've

611
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 3: been chasing Trump for ten years, right.

612
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. I had a friend, a friend of

613
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: mine say just that reaction, this initial his initial reaction

614
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: is a Democratic strategist who said, and I don't I

615
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: want to. I'm not going to use his name, but

616
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: it's funny you said, because it was. It was immediately.

617
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: It's like he's like, he goes, I'm so tired of

618
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: Dems talking about Trump, and he's a Dem.

619
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly same. Now I get the look.

620
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of a bunch of fights, really

621
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: important fights with this administration because I have federal workers

622
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: in my district who I will go to the map

623
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 3: for and I'm going to do everything in my power

624
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 3: to keep their jobs.

625
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 2: Uh.

626
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: And I've got people my district who are going to

627
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 3: lose their health care if I don't. If I don't

628
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: put up a good if I don't put up the

629
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: best fight possible.

630
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 2: So like there are fights day in and day out.

631
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: However, leading is something that they desperately want us to do.

632
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 3: And and chasing Trump is not leading. Uh And I

633
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 3: think folks are desperate for that kind of leadership that says, look,

634
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 3: we are going to head in a different direction. And

635
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 3: and and we are going to pull the American people

636
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: in that direction.

637
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

638
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: You know, by fixing the economy, by tackling public safety,

639
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: by offering real solutions on immigration and border security. Uh

640
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: and and and you continue to make the case before, during,

641
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: after a life actions so that it becomes what the

642
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 3: vast majority of Americans expect.

643
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 2: That's how you get to this great American comeback.

644
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 3: And I think that's how you as as a member

645
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party. That's how we get folks back

646
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: to say, Okay, we know who you are. You're not

647
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 3: just people who don't like Trump. You are people who

648
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: are going to fix the tax coach so that we get.

649
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 2: The money, not the super wealthy.

650
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: You're the folks that are going to help us pay

651
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: our bills because there is an affordability crisis. And you're

652
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 3: the folks that are going to, like, you know, build

653
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 3: ten million new homes, like you guys are going to

654
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: be the ones that start to get the country building again,

655
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 3: and so on and so forth. And I just think

656
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 3: people are desperate for it. I am, like, I consider

657
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 3: myself the most average voter, Like I'm about as average

658
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: of a you know.

659
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 2: And so like that's what I want. I want to see.

660
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: I want to see, you know, a really strong group

661
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: of leaders are who appreciate the fact that this system,

662
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 3: whether it's the political system, the economic system, the immigration system,

663
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: it's all broken.

664
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: It's been broken longer than eight months.

665
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: It's been broken for decades, and we need a group

666
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 3: of like really daring people to go fix it.

667
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: So you got your start in politics. What did you

668
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 1: do before becoming a member of the city council.

669
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 3: Before I was at city hall, I was doing education

670
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: shot advocacy work.

671
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 2: I was a teacher. My parents were teachers. I'm a yeah,

672
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 2: what did you teach?

673
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: I taught high school Spanish and Spanish and remedial math. Interesting, Yeah,

674
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: I mean, I just I wanted to be in a classroom,

675
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 3: you know. I made a list when I was like

676
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: in my ear twenties of like everything I wanted.

677
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: To do.

678
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: Was running for Congress one of them, or being a

679
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: gunning for running for office was one. I think I

680
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: know which you didn't. You didn't when that.

681
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: Was actually the sentence on my It was a list

682
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: of ten twelve things I wanted to Did.

683
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: You say you wanted to be president? It's okay? And

684
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: klob Shard told me an interview, told me that in

685
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: high school she thought.

686
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 3: About being president. Was my twenties and said run for office.

687
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 3: And I remember somebody seeing a really close friend and

688
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: he said, don't you want to be more ambitious? And

689
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: I said, what do you mean. He's like, I mean,

690
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 3: don't you want to win? That's like it does just

691
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: say run, does only say run.

692
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: But that's how That's what tell me about the city

693
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: council experience. Because I I sit here, I have a

694
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: very cynical view, sometimes shocking. Right, you'd spend this much

695
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: time in Washington, you can't help it. But one of

696
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: my jokes is the least corrupt legislative body in America's Congress,

697
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: and that the more local you go, the more possibility

698
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: for corruption there is, mostly because there aren't a lot

699
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: of reporters like me covering city council races. There are

700
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 1: a lot of reporters that cover Congress and even though

701
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: we sit here and over index on congressional scandals, My goodness,

702
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: it's the stuff people don't realize what's happening there. So

703
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: I know that was a very cynical answer. I'm setting

704
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: you up here, But am I being too cynical?

705
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think being skeptical is really good.

706
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

707
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 3: I can only speak for Cincinnati. I mean, Cincinnati has

708
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: been relatively clean. We've had a relatively good.

709
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: You have a weak mayor system.

710
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: It's kind of in the middle.

711
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 3: You have an independently elected mayor who hires and fires

712
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: a city manager who obviously.

713
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: The council is pretty strong, right, They're pretty.

714
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: Powerful, very very strong. So if you want to be

715
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: a strong mayor, you have to work for it.

716
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: And I love that about our system, which means you

717
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 3: have to have really good relationships with and build a

718
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: strong coalition on councible and really strong mayors have done that.

719
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: But you got to want it done. It just doesn't.

720
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: You got to work for it.

721
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: And I feel that way about the presidency of the

722
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: United States, Like there's a lot of power there.

723
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 2: What I think doing now.

724
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 3: Seems strong because he's like, but he's only using the

725
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 3: levers at the White House.

726
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: He's not he's not doing anything other than the records.

727
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: I call him. It's like getting It's like potato chip

728
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: calories right, it isn't healthy. And more importantly, it'll disappear.

729
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: It means you know meediately. You know, if you do

730
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: everything the executive order, you leave nothing that's last y.

731
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so like you have to like work with Congress,

732
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: and so we have a system that requires the mayor

733
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: to work with counsel and to have a governing coalition,

734
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 3: which I think is great. Uh, there there have been

735
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 3: there obviously, there was some pretty serious issues.

736
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: With corruption in the last couple of years and a

737
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: city council.

738
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: One of the things I did in the I was

739
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 3: there five years was to set up the first ever

740
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: Office of Good Government, Ethics and Good Government, which requires

741
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 3: a ton of training and support and new new expectations,

742
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 3: which I think have helped because it's been it's been

743
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 3: nothing but smooth sailing since the office was created, but

744
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: it has gotten better. I do also think that like everyone,

745
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 3: let me say this, it helped me to be at

746
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: city Hall. It helped me because every every week I

747
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 3: was in front of my constituents. There was open public

748
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 3: comments section, you know, sessions where you know, for as

749
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: long as they wanted, you know, everyone got two minutes,

750
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 3: and sometimes those lasted for hours, you know, and like I.

751
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: Can get time.

752
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm envisioning scenes out of parks and rec you know,

753
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: those people passionately.

754
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 3: That's just when people are yelling at me, I just

755
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 3: I what's the Leslie Noble line? They're just they're just

756
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 3: talking passionately, but something like that. But yeah, I like that.

757
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 3: I think it's really good and healthy to hear from people.

758
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's like pretty crazy stuff. Sometimes it's actually like God,

759
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 3: that is a good idea, or like, yeah, we should

760
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 3: actually spend more time focusing on these questions.

761
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 2: I also think one more thing.

762
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 3: I also think it's really important that we start to

763
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 3: run government much better. And if you've been at city

764
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: Hall and you care about running government much better, you

765
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 3: have a really good census to like what bureaucracy can

766
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 3: do and why it can become a huge problem, and

767
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: what you have to do to like punch through and

768
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: create shot clocks and get stuff out the door and

769
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 3: why that's so important. You learn a lot about public

770
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 3: safety and what cops need and what firefighters need, and

771
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: what communities want from their cops and their firefighters.

772
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: And you learn the.

773
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: Basics the paving, you know, paving roads and picking up trash,

774
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 3: and why doing the basics, the fundamentals has to be

775
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: top of, like that's what you have, Like there's all

776
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 3: these wonderful things I want to do for children and families,

777
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 3: from prenatal care to childcare and.

778
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 2: All these things.

779
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 3: And ultimately we got done at fiction, prevention, housing stuff.

780
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 2: But you've got to do the basics first.

781
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 3: And I think that's true at state and you know

782
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 3: state at the state level and up here.

783
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: Compare being a small legislature essentially, which is what a

784
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,479
Speaker 1: city council is, to this gigantic one.

785
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: It there are more personalities.

786
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just gonna say, it must be both

787
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: more empowering and sometimes frustrating though that you take so

788
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: long to get something done.

789
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's this. I guess this is the

790
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 3: other The other benefit of I think being at.

791
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: City hall is that.

792
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 3: They're at city hall, like you're constantly any calls from

793
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 3: people and in the city that need help, we can

794
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 3: know and picked up their trash, their mail is not

795
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 3: getting delivered to them, there's a problem property across the street.

796
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 3: And so you're constantly getting to work, which I love.

797
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 3: When you get to Congress, you can do the same thing,

798
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: like just you have you invest in your case swort

799
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 3: team and you tell your case s work team, like,

800
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 3: obviously your focus is on federal agencies, but if they

801
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 3: need help with a local.

802
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: Help them ount figure it out, You figure it out.

803
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: And if that means helping to figure out who to

804
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: call to get their trash picked up, be that person. Uh.

805
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 3: And you know we're known for that, which is awesome

806
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: And I love getting in the middle of some of

807
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 3: the stuff. I give my email and my phone number

808
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: out wherever I go. I staff hates, but I'll get

809
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 3: an email that's like, hey, I'm so sorry, nobody picked

810
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 3: up my trash, And I'm like, I love this because

811
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: I know who to Like, yeah, here's who's going to

812
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: so now. In addition to that, if you if you

813
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: get really good at the legislative part up here, you can.

814
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 2: Fundamentally change the world.

815
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: Like I think that's the the you know, we last

816
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 3: year forced to vote on the Social Security Fairness Act.

817
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: Now there are millions of people in this country. For

818
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: twenty five years, this bill will have been sitting in

819
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: Congress where teachers, retired teachers, police officers, firefighters, letter carriers,

820
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 3: they weren't getting all their soci security because they got

821
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 3: their stay pension and you know they don't give them

822
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 3: too much, but they paid for their social security. They

823
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 3: paid into social Security, so it's earned benefits. And it

824
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: had three hundred and sixty three signatures. People who were like, no,

825
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 3: I want to do that, because they wanted to tell

826
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: their teachers or or police or they're firefighters.

827
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 2: That they were on the bill.

828
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 3: But it wouldn't get to the floor. And so I

829
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 3: worked with Abigail S. Bamberger and Garrett Graves Republican, she's

830
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 3: a Democrat, and we after weeks months of negotiating, when

831
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 3: we realized we weren't going to get a vote, we

832
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 3: forced a vote. It was one of only a couple

833
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 3: discharage petitions last session. I went hard to get two

834
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 3: hundred and eighteen signatures. We got it in two days

835
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,720
Speaker 3: and it passed the House. We worked it on the Senate.

836
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 3: We got Schumer to get us a vote and now

837
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 3: it's twenty billion dollars a year. There's a lot of money,

838
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 3: but it's their money that's going to retire teachers. So

839
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: when I'm out and about, I swear to you this

840
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 3: is not hyperbole. Every every week, let's say I have

841
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 3: multiple people coming up to me and saying thank you

842
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 3: because I get all my benefits. That's like six seven

843
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: hundred dollars a month now, and that's a big deal.

844
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 3: That's twenty years. So it's like, no, I want to

845
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 3: figure out how to do this so well that I'm

846
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 3: doing all of I'm doing that, you know, four or five, six, seven,

847
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 3: eight times a year.

848
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: So sometime after nine to eleven congressional leaders ruin Congress.

849
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: I sit here and I wish you were a member

850
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: back when there was a lot more opportunity for non

851
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: leadership to get stuff done. The fact that you have

852
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: to use discharge petitions, right, you know one of the things.

853
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: Now we have five hundred and thirty five members of

854
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: Congress and four people make decisions. It is it is.

855
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes I almost don't want to even bother

856
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: telling people how it used to work, because for me,

857
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like that long ago, like this was

858
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: still the nineties and committee chairs and ranking members could

859
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: work together and do stuff. Max Bokas and Chuck Grassley

860
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: ran the Finance Committee. They cared more about running that

861
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: committee together than they did either of their party leaders,

862
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: until eventually the party leaders just sort of revoked those privileges.

863
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 2: This is when when I went on break. I'm so

864
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: frustrated about this.

865
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 3: When I went on break last year for the election,

866
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 3: which was essentially the end of the term, right, I

867
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 3: asked somebody to pull. Somebody from a team pulled the

868
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: number of bills that passed out of committee that are

869
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 3: ready for a floor vote. Six hundred and ninety eight.

870
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,959
Speaker 3: There were seven hundred bills. You're kidding me. I didn't

871
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 3: know that number.

872
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: So say that again, seven one hundred bills made it

873
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: out of committee, which means it had, you know, majority vote,

874
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: made it out of committee. And you know, we all

875
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: supposedly saw the cartoon of how a bill becomes a law.

876
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 1: So you get out of committee and it's supposed to

877
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: go to the floor of the House. And how many

878
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: of those six hundred ninety bills made it.

879
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 3: To the floor that let's just say, in the last

880
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 3: couple of weeks of the year. I don't know, we'll

881
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 3: give them the benefit of down, say fifty, wow, and

882
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 3: I think that's probably generous.

883
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 2: So I suspect it was around seven hundred.

884
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: That's a that's a batting average of under one hundred.

885
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just insane, you know, So close to

886
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 3: seven hundred bills or over six hundred and fifty bills

887
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 3: made it out of committee and never got a floor vote.

888
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: Now what was leadership doing with all that floor time?

889
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 3: They were putting forward messaging bills?

890
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 2: You know.

891
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: I mean it used to be that Congress would do

892
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 3: a few bills to try to like help their incumbents,

893
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 3: but now it's it's messaging bill after messaging bill after

894
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 3: messaging bill.

895
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: Do they have the direct mail pieces written in advance

896
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: and then they write the bill to make the piece work?

897
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, read the bills read like.

898
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: Hack you we today this is another sad day.

899
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 3: The National Defense Reauthorization Act, which has always been nonpartisan,

900
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 3: remember you, and I I suspect you know, I say

901
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 3: this to young people and they're like, oh, that's a

902
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 3: cool saying. But we grew up with it, which is

903
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 3: politics ends at the water's edge. I love that which

904
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 3: was Unfortunately.

905
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: I have a thesis that that when the Berlin Wall fell,

906
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: so did that And I don't think we look, why

907
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: do we go all the way that I thought was

908
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: well because of the I think when you look at it,

909
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: if you actually look, if you sort of take a

910
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: step back of where we are, the only time that,

911
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: the only time that was actually relevant was during the

912
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 1: Cold War, when both parties kept their fringes at bay

913
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: and everybody had their eye on the on the on

914
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: the Soviet ball, and you did you had this sort

915
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: of it didn't matter who was president. Everybody was going

916
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: to make sure, you know, was concerned about nuclear war

917
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: and was concerned about the Soviets. Well, I want to

918
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: I want to do too. And we had it briefly

919
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: at nine to eleven, but it went away pretty fast,

920
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: and it it is. It's one of those I have

921
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: an Unfortunately I look at it, and if you look

922
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: at the totality of our two hundred and forty nine years,

923
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: the Cold War era might be the outlier where we

924
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: were more bipartisan, where we were a bit less sort

925
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: of a caustic at each other. We had the all

926
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: of our presidential elections were blowouts by the way we

927
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: never had most of the during the Cold War sixty

928
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: eight and seventy six were it. You look at this century,

929
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,879
Speaker 1: every single presidential election has been decided by six points

930
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: or less.

931
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think you're you're touching. I mean

932
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 3: that's interesting. I mean I wonder whether or not. I

933
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: was just in Asia last week to pan in Tokyo,

934
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 3: and it's impossible not to spend most of the time

935
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 3: talking about or thinking about the China threat and how real.

936
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: It is, how how close we are?

937
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: What is I was on a show today that said

938
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: how close are we to World War three? And I

939
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, please get off the internet.

940
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: But how would you have answered the question?

941
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 3: I mean, if we don't get our act together, we're

942
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 3: very close, and we're a couple of years away.

943
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like.

944
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 3: You know, because at the moment, China has said within

945
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 3: the next couple of years they are going to resolve

946
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 3: the Taiwan issue in their minds, which is going to

947
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 3: be potentially boots on the ground for them. They're going

948
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 3: to invade, and the Taiwan Straits is a huge, you know,

949
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 3: a trading artery, and.

950
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 2: You know, if China controls that and.

951
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 3: Decides, you know, well, if they move on Taiwan, the

952
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 3: United States has to decide, the world has to decide

953
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: whether or not they're going to allow it. I think

954
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 3: the answer is you can't at which point we are

955
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 3: at war. I don't know what that war looks like.

956
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 3: But the best way to deter or to avoid that

957
00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 3: is by being very very serious about our capabilities in

958
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 3: the region and by proving too g that the cost

959
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: of doing that, the cost of messing with Taiwan, which

960
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 3: would potentially, you know, start a global war, is too high.

961
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 3: And that now means you have to push Putin back,

962
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 3: because if he sees Putin advancing without you know, any

963
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 3: real pushback from the United States, you know, for example,

964
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 3: he just messed around in Poland and and and and

965
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 3: and our president seemed uninterested.

966
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: That's that was a little in fact, they didn't said

967
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: anything on that is disconce Look, I mean Poland.

968
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 3: Before, right, kind of the incentive to say, okay, if that,

969
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 3: if the cost was up here with that cost comes down,

970
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 3: and the further the cost goes down for China, the

971
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 3: more likely it is you don't.

972
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: Well, let me let me I mean, look, this is

973
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: how one person put it to me, this is somebody

974
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: on the right who wants to defend Taiwan, but said,

975
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: how do you make the case to somebody in Cincinnati,

976
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: Ohio that their son or daughter ought to fight on

977
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: behalf of this small island against China. Yeah, I mean,

978
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: it's it's global trade. It's also just the global order.

979
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 3: And you know us being you know next, or our

980
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 3: allies being next. You know, it's the same situation in Ukraine.

981
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 3: I look, I don't think that the next big global

982
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 3: war necessarily means that we have troops invading other countries.

983
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: I mean, oh yeah, we're learning the drone I mean

984
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: what we're learning coming out of I just had a

985
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: tremendous interview with Dexter Filkins, who did this deep dive

986
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: about the future of warfare and everything that's been learned

987
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: from the Ukrainians. Here. The drone wars are here.

988
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 3: Run wars are here, and you have to have you

989
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 3: have to have, you know, people in strategic places all

990
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 3: over the world, and we do do we have enough?

991
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: Probably not?

992
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:14,479
Speaker 1: Should we have an Asian NATO?

993
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 3: So you know, I asked that question I was over there,

994
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 3: and the answer is no.

995
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 2: We're good.

996
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 3: The multilateral agreements are fine, everyone's working together.

997
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 2: That's what you need. But it gets complicated.

998
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 3: And because not all of those countries, it's not the

999
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 3: same as Europe. There's not a shared currency, there's not

1000
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 3: a shared economy, but there's a shared.

1001
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: Concern about China. I mean, I do between Japan, Korea,

1002
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: South Korea, Australia, right, I mean, now I know the

1003
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: South I mean they're all nervous about China.

1004
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 3: Everyone Philippines, like everyone is has banded together, but they

1005
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 3: like to there's beef, you know, you know, and.

1006
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: The South Koreans and the Japanese are still beefing.

1007
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 3: Right. It is not it is not going to go away,

1008
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 3: but that does not mean that and and and quite frankly,

1009
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 3: this is where American leadership is so important, because we're

1010
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 3: there and we're helping to sort of organize all that

1011
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 3: they are in a position to defend themselves and to

1012
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 3: maintain a role based system around you know, in in

1013
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 3: the Indo Pacific, which has huge ramifications for our economy

1014
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 3: and our national.

1015
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 2: Security, but it does, like right now, what you need is.

1016
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 3: A president of the United States and a Defense Department secretary,

1017
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 3: somebody who's serious, you know, And this is this is

1018
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 3: frustrating that you have somebody like heg Seth leading such

1019
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 3: a you know, a hugely important organization increasing the cost

1020
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 3: to China to mess around with Taiwan. And at the

1021
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 3: moment you saw China hanging out with you know, Russia,

1022
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 3: that is them saying no, no, we see you. You

1023
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 3: know Trump, You're you're sort of letting Putin do what

1024
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 3: he wants? Is that going to be the same for us?

1025
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 3: And the answer is absolutely not. And he has to

1026
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: prove that by pushing Putin back.

1027
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: One of the dots I connect where I get concerned

1028
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: about global global conflict in the moment we're in is

1029
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: that when you the last time we were this protectionists

1030
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: in our country with the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties,

1031
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: and and you know, we're a far larger economy now.

1032
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: Our decisions are affecting the livelihoods of people all over

1033
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: the world. And you know, when we behave with hey,

1034
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: it's us first, everybody else is going to say, okay,

1035
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: then we're not in this together. And everything is a

1036
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: zero sum game. I mean, I worry that this increases

1037
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: the likelihood of war all these terms.

1038
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 3: And it it diminishes the connectivity, the connectiveness net. Look,

1039
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 3: obviously there is a role for terists to play. I'm

1040
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 3: a big believer in strategic tariffs, where you're you're using

1041
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 3: it for.

1042
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: A purposeful end to help somebody describe it to me

1043
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: that the way tariffs should be used is it's It's

1044
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: like the way police use force. It's there. They can

1045
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: use it if they need to. We hope we don't,

1046
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: but when we have to, we'll use it. But it

1047
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 1: is not a strategy to grow the economy, just like

1048
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: using force all the time is not a strategy to

1049
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: protect people.

1050
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, we're still very popular around the

1051
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 3: world based on you know, the Pew like data.

1052
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: Right, be careful of going to South Soul these days.

1053
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're very popular and Soul.

1054
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: But with the leaders, they're frustrated.

1055
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 3: But you know, and and and obviously the rate on

1056
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 3: the plant didn't help with the numbers. But we're still

1057
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 3: much more popular than anyone else. I mean, people still

1058
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 3: like the United States, they don't like.

1059
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: Well, we're the cleanest pair of underwear in the in

1060
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: the UH in the Emperor, but it's still dirty.

1061
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like we need somebody who this this

1062
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 3: country desperately needs somebody globally who can bring people together,

1063
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 3: uh to uh re establish the kind of global order

1064
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 3: that has led to you know, unprecedented uh you know,

1065
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 3: uh peace and and and and.

1066
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: And unprecedented prosperity.

1067
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 3: And somebody who will bring us together, unify us as

1068
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 3: a country, which we desperately need to fix the things

1069
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 3: that are broken. And at the heart of what's broken

1070
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 3: is is the swamp right like, is this rigged system,

1071
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 3: whether it's political, economic like, it's just that the super

1072
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 3: powerful and the super plugged in get have gotten so

1073
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 3: much at the expense of everybody else, and somebody or

1074
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 3: a group of us will have to upend that whole thing.

1075
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the future of the

1076
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. If you had all read Kamala Harris the

1077
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: excerpt from Kamala Harris's book Yet in the Atlantic, Did

1078
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: you did so, you're fresh on that you were among

1079
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: the first I think you were the first member of Congress. Yeah.

1080
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 3: I was one of the first people after the debate

1081
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 3: to say that's a huge problem. If he doesn't, you know,

1082
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 3: if Biden doesn't reverse course and proved that this was

1083
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 3: some sort of anomaly, then then he's got to drop out.

1084
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 3: And then I gave him a couple of weeks to

1085
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 3: prove that he could reverse course, and he clearly didn't.

1086
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 3: I thought I have more credibility if I gave him,

1087
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 3: you know, that time, and you know, and I was

1088
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 3: kind of hoping it was an anomaly. It clearly wasn't anomaly.

1089
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, anyone who did not, you know,

1090
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 3: say what was obviously true, is going to have a

1091
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:58,479
Speaker 3: problem with voters and.

1092
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 2: So our already you know needs and.

1093
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: You're in a swing district. I mean, let's yeah, you

1094
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: know you and you you won making that case. Hey,

1095
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know, I'm.

1096
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 3: Not right making that case on everything, which is this

1097
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 3: is one percent how I feel.

1098
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 2: I'm just going to tell.

1099
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 3: You, you know what I mean, and that people just

1100
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 3: want that they don't the expectations for elected officials aren't

1101
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 3: any different than the elected than the expectations they have.

1102
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, Why didn't you do

1103
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: it sooner? Why not before the debate? I mean, there

1104
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: was a lot of yeah, and I'm just curious.

1105
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 2: Did you no, No, it's a good question.

1106
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 3: I saw him that that, you know, I went to

1107
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 3: the UH I sat in the chamber during that say

1108
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 3: the uh you know and you know, and it was like,

1109
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 3: which one is real? Is the State of the Union

1110
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 3: Joe Biden? Or is the uh the debate Joe Biden?

1111
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 3: And that's why I said, look, you have a couple

1112
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 3: of weeks proved to me that it was the union

1113
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 3: that we're dealing with.

1114
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 2: State of the Union Joe Biden.

1115
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: And did you feel pressure? Though not it was did

1116
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: you feel that there was a collective pressure? You know?

1117
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris called it, It's like we were all hypnotized.

1118
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: She said, everybody was hypnotized. Did you feel that.

1119
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 2: I knew it was there. I didn't feel it.

1120
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 3: I mean I there were these votes that would come

1121
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 3: up that would say like, hey, you got to get

1122
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 3: serious about the border. I had no problem voting for

1123
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 3: those those resolutions that you know, that that that you know,

1124
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 3: essentially attacked Biden because I thought I thought they I

1125
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 3: thought they shoot.

1126
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 2: The bed on the border. And so I had no problem.

1127
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I I watched what they did to uh,

1128
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 3: Dean Phillips.

1129
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 1: But Dean, he's voted an apology.

1130
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 2: No, he's yeah, yeah yeah. And Dean's a friend.

1131
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: But you know.

1132
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 2: Look, I can just say this, the Biden situation was

1133
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 2: a mess. Uh and uh.

1134
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 3: For those of us who said so, I think you know,

1135
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 3: people appreciated that and those who you know, stood with

1136
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 3: him because it was one thing to not say anything.

1137
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 3: But then there were a bunch of people that were

1138
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 3: like and elected officials, members in Congress, are they you know,

1139
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 3: don't abandon Joe. We're back, We're back in Biden. You know,

1140
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 3: like they're gonna have a hard time with voters in

1141
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 3: my opinion. But the same is true for the people

1142
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 3: who said, I know I'm going sorry, sorry, you can cut.

1143
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 2: That and say this. The same is true for.

1144
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 3: People who are like, oh, the economy is great, the

1145
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 3: economy has been broken. Those of us who've been honest

1146
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 3: about the economy do better. Those of us who are

1147
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 3: honest about the border do better. So I just think

1148
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 3: people want honest leaders. You're going to get redistricted.

1149
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 2: I don't know yet.

1150
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: I gotta go. I know, you do. I know that

1151
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: was the one that was the one one thing we

1152
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 1: didn't get to is the re redistricting.

1153
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 2: You know, we won by ten in a very tight district.

1154
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure they want to you know,

1155
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 3: do messing with with with with us, which which could

1156
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 3: happen leads to a demimander and they.

1157
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: Could lose multiple seats. So we'll see.

1158
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 1: I will leave it there. I know this was a

1159
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: tough time, Congressman. Sorry. I feel like we've got to

1160
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: know each other already and I hope to do this again.

1161
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 1: Thank you, well, my thanks to the congressman there. He

1162
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 1: could have easily canceled on me, given the events of

1163
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: the moment, but I appreciate that he kept his commitment

1164
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: with me, sat down. He had a race off for votes,

1165
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: and that's the thing we you know, a lot every

1166
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 1: we all move on, but we don't forget. And it

1167
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: is still worth lingering in this going forward. Uh it is.

1168
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 1: It is certainly something. Hang on, let me start that again.

1169
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: He's got a phone call in the middle of it.

1170
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: I didn't I don't know if the ring came through

1171
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:57,719
Speaker 1: three two one. I just want to thank the Congressman again. Frankly,

1172
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: if he had it canceled on me, it wouldn't have

1173
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 1: surprised and have been surprising sometimes when you get a moment.

1174
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: It happened literally about ten minutes before our scheduled interview,

1175
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: but I appreciate that he kept it, kept the commitment,

1176
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 1: and in some ways, I think, you know, it's is

1177
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: raw and in some ways unprepared of an interview, but

1178
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 1: that's you know. I think we're all processing this, and

1179
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: I hope the interview helps you, helps you process it

1180
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 1: a little bit. I hope what I said at the

1181
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 1: top helps you process things a little bit. So I'm

1182
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: going to go to let me pivot here before I

1183
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 1: get to questions and talk a little bit about the

1184
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: the excerpts from the Kamala Harris From Kamala Harris's book,

1185
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: I think it's I am. I think a lot of

1186
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: us that are observers of the former vice president are

1187
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: surprised at how direct she was, at least in the excerpt.

1188
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: And I'm hesitant to do too much on the book

1189
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 1: because I'd like to read the whole thing. I have

1190
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: not gotten my copy yet. I have only read the

1191
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: excerpts in the end Alan. But what was interesting is

1192
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: what it confirmed. She confirmed a lot of the reporting

1193
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: that I had done and been doing during the Biden

1194
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: Harris years, which was how marginalized she was, how much

1195
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: the West Wing it looked to me, and certainly I

1196
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: had my own sources there that they aggressively marginalized her

1197
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: in some ways. I think she feels to this day

1198
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: set up for failure when it came to the quote

1199
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: unquote borders are I found that the details in there

1200
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: where she talked about the fact that she was you

1201
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: know here, she would give a speech, it would be approved,

1202
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 1: they'd see it, and then it gets a little traction,

1203
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: and they'd be upset that it got a little traction

1204
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 1: and be upset with her. Look, this goes back to

1205
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 1: and what my sneaking suspicion is that there was always

1206
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: division inside Biden world about whether to pick her or not,

1207
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: and those that didn't want her picked had a lot

1208
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 1: of power in that way best wing, and she was

1209
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: not treated as an equal. I want to be careful here,

1210
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to violate off the record conversations, but

1211
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: I'll just put it this way. I am surprised that

1212
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: a former vice president who then assumed the presidency, who

1213
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: himself thought he was treated unfairly or dismissed at times,

1214
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 1: or set up for failure by a presidential West wing staff,

1215
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:41,919
Speaker 1: would then become president and then treat his vice president

1216
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 1: in a way that I know he didn't like how

1217
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: he was treated. That is the thing that jumps out

1218
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: at me the most in this is that a former

1219
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: vice president who assumes the presidency ends up treating his

1220
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: vice president as badly as he felt like he was

1221
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: treated at times. This is a reminder, right, like bad

1222
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 1: behaviors passed on, right, if you want to set a

1223
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: new tone, you have to set a new tone. It's

1224
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: too bad that didn't happen. And you can't help but

1225
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: read the excerpts and realize that that you know, you know, look,

1226
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: I've i uh, I've always felt that there's too many

1227
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:33,799
Speaker 1: people were in the vice president's ear. Too many people

1228
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 1: were trying to make money off the vice president, pushing

1229
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:39,640
Speaker 1: her in different directions at times. I think the consulting

1230
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 1: team really sort of pushed her. I have no idea

1231
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: whether she had the ambition to be president in the

1232
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: teens that the consultants talked her into it. I don't know,

1233
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: because the campaign she ran was way too consultant heavy,

1234
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 1: way too focus grouped, and it it felt like too

1235
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 1: many people, which is in that and you saw and

1236
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 1: so of course she got this reputation for being cautious

1237
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: all the time. And I do think by her nature

1238
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: prosecutors are cautious, you have to be. Defense attorneys don't

1239
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: have to be. But when you're representing the government, you

1240
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: have to dot every eye and cross every tee. Right,

1241
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 1: that should be an asset, but in politics that sometimes

1242
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: that isn't an asset. Right, So by her, you know,

1243
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: it's always been by her nature she's cautious. Well, of course,

1244
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: because she was a former prosecutor. That's how she cut

1245
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 1: her teeth in government and from there, you you know,

1246
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 1: and being an attorney the same thing. When you're representative

1247
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,560
Speaker 1: of the government in the legal space, you know, you

1248
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 1: can't you can't put you can't be a cowboy. Obviously,

1249
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: our politics rewards those that go off go off script,

1250
01:14:53,680 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: and that was that's just not who she is. You know,

1251
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: we've talked about this the campaign itself. I think in

1252
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 1: hindsight it was doomed to fail, not and there's nothing

1253
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 1: she could have done that. The circumstance that she was

1254
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: given made it impossible for her to sort of do that. Now.

1255
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: You know, look, we will there be should she have

1256
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,719
Speaker 1: thrown Biden under the bus sooner? Should she have told

1257
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: us all this, perhaps that would have been politically expedient,

1258
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: but it actually wouldn't be who she is, which I which,

1259
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 1: and you know she waited till now. Look, the whole

1260
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:43,759
Speaker 1: Biden presidency is sort of a tragedy that Joe Biden

1261
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: I covered in two thousand and eight. Had he become president,

1262
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: he would have been I think, a much different president.

1263
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: But she does seem to describe a presidency that we

1264
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: all thought we were seeing, which was was very small,

1265
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: bubble tight circle, and that there were three or four

1266
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: people who were almost selfishly guarding the Biden presidency to

1267
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 1: the point where it was it looked like it was

1268
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 1: self serving more for themselves than looking out even for Biden,

1269
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: let alone the country. The book may open some wounds

1270
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: inside the party, but I'm one of those you can't

1271
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: you can't let this stuff fester, So rip the band

1272
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: aid off and have the conversation the other thing. And again,

1273
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: I want to be careful using this excerpt to make

1274
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 1: an assumption about her ambition in the future. But now

1275
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm a bit more convinced she wants to run for

1276
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 1: president again and on her terms, and not have to

1277
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 1: run as Biden's vice president. It may be that that's

1278
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: a tattoo that she'll never be able to remove, and

1279
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,639
Speaker 1: she'll always be Biden's vice president. But if the rest

1280
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:58,839
Speaker 1: of the book is similar to this excerpt, I certainly

1281
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,600
Speaker 1: think she's trying to say, Hey, I was in a

1282
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 1: position where I couldn't be the one to say he

1283
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 1: should have gone? But where was everybody else? Right? The

1284
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 1: hypnotized line was quite striking when she said, let me

1285
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: read it for it, that it was a Jill and

1286
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 1: Joe decision about whether he should run again. And she

1287
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: goes we all said that like a mantra, as if

1288
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 1: we'd all been hypnotized. Was it grace or was it recklessness?

1289
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: In retrospect, I think it was recklessness. The stakes were

1290
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: simply too high. This wasn't a choice that should have

1291
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: been left to an individual's ego, an individual's ambition. It

1292
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 1: should have been more than a personal decision. And then

1293
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: she goes on, I was well aware of my delicate status.

1294
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: Lore has it that every outgoing chief of staff always

1295
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: tells the incoming president's chief of staff rule number one,

1296
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: watch the VP, Because I'd gone after him over busting

1297
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: in the twenty nineteen primary debate. I came into the

1298
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 1: White House with what we lawyers call a rebuttable presumption.

1299
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,839
Speaker 1: I had to prove my loyalty time and time again.

1300
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 1: The point was, and she made this point, she couldn't

1301
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: be the one to tell him he had to go,

1302
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 1: because the assumption would have been she was doing she

1303
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: was the one that was going to benefit it. But

1304
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: she was in the impossible position. But all these Democrats

1305
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 1: that besmirched Dean Phillips, all these Democrats that stood by

1306
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: Biden and said that, you know, at a minimum, Dean

1307
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 1: Phillips is owed an apology for how he was treated

1308
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 1: by the party. The party would have benefited from an

1309
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 1: open debate on this. I don't know whether future Democratic

1310
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: electorates will hold her time with Biden against her. Some might.

1311
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 1: We'll see if that makes her if that if you know,

1312
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:46,880
Speaker 1: if the country wants to turn the page, they may say, hey,

1313
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: do we want anybody connected to any of the any

1314
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: of the last ten years. And that's possible. But from

1315
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: what I read in this excerpt, it strikes me as

1316
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: she's somebody that isn't done in American politics and and

1317
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 1: may want one more chance at the presidency. So I

1318
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: look forward to reading the rest of the book. Yes,

1319
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:06,919
Speaker 1: I'm making every effort to get her on the podcast.

1320
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:11,640
Speaker 1: We shall say. I will tell you this, every conversation

1321
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: I've had with her on the record and off the

1322
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 1: record has been illuminating and interesting. So I hope to

1323
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: bring a conversation like that to you guys here. All right,

1324
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: let me take a few questions ask Chuck. All Right,

1325
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 1: this comes from a Lions fan, so I'm going to

1326
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 1: assume it's Michigan, but we shall see Troubell Go Lions.

1327
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 1: He says, as someone who grew up in the Detroit

1328
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:38,759
Speaker 1: metro area, I loved hearing your reflections in the city.

1329
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 1: With the Dan Campbell Brad Holmes era of the Lions,

1330
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,879
Speaker 1: There's been a real rebirth of pride in grit in Michigan.

1331
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,959
Speaker 1: Do you think that energy could translate into political awareness

1332
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 1: or action? And have sports teams ever sparked that kind

1333
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 1: of movement before? On a related note, I recently spoke

1334
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: with a couple of MAGA voters and Detroit said they'd

1335
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: likely support Mike Duggan for governor if Dugan wins. Want

1336
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:58,759
Speaker 1: to impact do you think you would have on Michigan

1337
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 1: politics and beyond look I have you've heard me say

1338
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 1: it before. I think the single most important state in

1339
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six where I can learn the most about

1340
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,799
Speaker 1: the American electorate and the appetites of the American electorate

1341
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,280
Speaker 1: is in Michigan. Whether it's the Democratic primary for Senate,

1342
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 1: which you've heard some candidates on here, and it's going

1343
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: to be a lively debate about the future of the party,

1344
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: which direction should they go ideologically, temperamentally, et cetera. But

1345
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:27,639
Speaker 1: Duggan's candidacy is an independent for governor. You know, can

1346
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 1: if an independent somebody who's not an R or a

1347
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 1: D wins the governorship in arguably one of the one

1348
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 1: of the three most important swing states in America right now,

1349
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: that's a size. That's an earthquake. That is an earthquake.

1350
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm a tad skeptical. I've seen these candidacies before. They

1351
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: have they have this sort of fifteen to twenty percent

1352
01:20:55,000 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: hard sort of enthusiastic support, but they struggle to go

1353
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: to build there. And then sometimes as the campaign season

1354
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: gets more partisan, it just does. Right. Red starts to

1355
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 1: go back to red, Blue starts to go back to blue.

1356
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 1: But look, I mean, I mean, look, this is this

1357
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: is about the heaviest podcast I've done since I relaunched

1358
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: the podcast, given the events of the events of this

1359
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,760
Speaker 1: week with what happened to Charlie Kirk. But you know,

1360
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 1: is that a moment for a guy like Mike Dougan

1361
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: to say, you know, this is you know, our party.

1362
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 1: You know, partisan politics are hurting us as a country, right.

1363
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: Our inability to be bipartisan, Our inability to sort of

1364
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 1: work with the other side, Our inability to view the

1365
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: other side as with as having worthy ideas and worthy

1366
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,719
Speaker 1: of the moment is our problem and it's holding us back.

1367
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if if that's the message that a

1368
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 1: dug In could deliver or convey, but it's a I

1369
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 1: think it's an opening that's out there. I think we are.

1370
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: I think the country is dying to de escalate the

1371
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:11,959
Speaker 1: partisan warfare. And so that's where I think Duggan's candidacy

1372
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: is interesting to me. And if it gets there, and

1373
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 1: you know, I do think the partisanship is exhausting. This

1374
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 1: vast temperamental middle right, there's two you know, I was

1375
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 1: trying to get at this before. I think there's there's

1376
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 1: ideological middle right, and then there's there's there's a temperamental moderate. Right.

1377
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 1: I've always said I'm a temperamental moderate, meaning I just

1378
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: don't think you can do things quickly or radically. You

1379
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: have to be incremental because you have to bring everybody up,

1380
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 1: you have to bring everybody around. It's possible that this

1381
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 1: is what's appealing at the ballot box if you want

1382
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 1: to if you want to stop the partisanship, the best

1383
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 1: message you might be able to send is to fire

1384
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: both parties when you get the opportunity to do so.

1385
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: And right now Michigan voter will have the opportunity to

1386
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 1: do that. So I'm I'm extraordinarily intrigued. As for your

1387
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 1: note about sports, I do think that sports teams can

1388
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:11,880
Speaker 1: help a city pride, right. I don't know if it

1389
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: can translate beyond a city, but there is something that

1390
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 1: it can. It can create some city pride, that can

1391
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: create some political momentum, meaning it can sort of you know,

1392
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: it's if you know, it's funny. There's been studies of

1393
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: this about voting behavior, for instance, and this is there's, uh,

1394
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:40,679
Speaker 1: there's a some academic work and forgive me, it's about

1395
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:45,480
Speaker 1: a decade old, but they did a study of of

1396
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 1: of of voters and they you know, different places. So

1397
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 1: take Columbus, Ohio. If the Ohio State Buckeyes won the

1398
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 1: Saturday before an election, incumbents did a couple of points

1399
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: better on the following Tuesday. If Ohio State lost the

1400
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 1: big football game the October the saturday before the election,

1401
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: incumbents did worse. Meaning that you you know when voters,

1402
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 1: when you're in a bad mood, you're anti incumbent. When

1403
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 1: you're in a good mood, you're more likely to be incumbent.

1404
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: So there is a moodiness is there is mood music

1405
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:28,640
Speaker 1: that a sports team can set, but it's pretty temporary.

1406
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 1: But this is it's funny you bring this up about

1407
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 1: the Lions and you're referring to something I It is

1408
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 1: been heartwarming to see the entire state embraced Detroit in

1409
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 1: a way that for the longest time, For most of

1410
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 1: my adult lifetime, Detroit was otherised by the rest of Michigan.

1411
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 1: Political candidates would run for office, run against Detroit to

1412
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 1: win statewide. Look it happens, and a lot of people

1413
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 1: used to do that. You'd run against Philadelphia to win

1414
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. You run against New York City to win

1415
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 1: in New York. I saw it run against Miami, you know,

1416
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: win statewide in Florida, it was you know, a way

1417
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 1: of you know, whatever the biggest city was, you could

1418
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: tap into voter antipathy about that city and other parts

1419
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 1: of the state. And it's like Detroit was so beaten

1420
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 1: down for so long, and there is something that Detroit

1421
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: is making a comeback on. At the same time, the

1422
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 1: Lions are good, right, and it's sort of it just

1423
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: it fit a narrative that may end up benefiting Duggin.

1424
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 1: You know, if the Detroit Lions are nine and one

1425
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: going into election day November of twenty twenty six, and

1426
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 1: as a Packer fan, so I'm I'm all for the

1427
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 1: if the Packers go and win the Super Bowl this year,

1428
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 1: by the way, trouble, I'm fine if you guys do

1429
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: great next year in twenty twenty six, But if they're

1430
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 1: nine and one, nine and two going into election day

1431
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, it's worth something to dug In on

1432
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 1: the net. Positive there. All right? Next question, This one

1433
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: comes from Dan and he writes, I'm running from DC

1434
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: as a GW grad student. All Right, go Revolutionaries. One

1435
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:12,640
Speaker 1: of the oldest tricks in the Corrupt Politician playbook is

1436
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:15,599
Speaker 1: that they are all bastard's defense when cotton scandals shrug

1437
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 1: it off by pointing at the other side, So your

1438
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 1: own corruption looks normal by comparison. You know, we call

1439
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: that projection, right. The trouble is, I've yet to hear

1440
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 1: a sharp nonpartisan CounterPunch to this. With the twenty twenty

1441
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 1: six mid terms in New York's mayor ural race looming,

1442
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 1: how should Democrats respond when their own unfavorables are running

1443
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 1: just as high? Thanks Dan Well, I'd actually say this

1444
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: is why I'd rather. I feel like this is why

1445
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 1: Mike Douggan said, I'm not going to be a partisan

1446
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: this year. I'm going to go try to be an independent.

1447
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 1: You know, I think you know, you get a halo

1448
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 1: effect if you're not a member of one of the

1449
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 1: two parties. I think right now, as far as voters

1450
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,000
Speaker 1: are concerned, or if you're willing to buck your party,

1451
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: and I think that that's really what it is. If

1452
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:01,800
Speaker 1: you want to make corruption of of the quote other

1453
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:05,959
Speaker 1: party an issue, you better police your side and call

1454
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 1: out the bad behavior on your side, call out those

1455
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:12,600
Speaker 1: that are being bought off by the crypto industry on

1456
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: the Democratic side of the isle. If you also want

1457
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: to call out what the crypto industry is doing with

1458
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 1: the Trump family, right, like you you can't have that

1459
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:23,599
Speaker 1: credibility there if you don't also with the voter, if

1460
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 1: you don't also say hey, look they're buying off people

1461
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 1: on my side of the aisle too. Whichever it is,

1462
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:36,519
Speaker 1: I will say this that that corruption, it is. It

1463
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 1: is a It is always the second hit when one

1464
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:45,640
Speaker 1: when the out party overperforms and does well in a midterm,

1465
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 1: there's always a top issue. Maybe it's the economy. Most

1466
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,720
Speaker 1: times it is six was wor in Iraq, and then

1467
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 1: the second hit, right, the second hit is some form

1468
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 1: of corruption, culture of care, ruption, whatever you want to

1469
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:04,760
Speaker 1: call it. And it was successful Republicans in ninety four

1470
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 1: they had there was a check bouncing scandal that was

1471
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: sort of the second hit. It was still an economic hit, healthcare,

1472
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: all of that, but the second hit, you know, the

1473
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:16,519
Speaker 1: second punch if you will so. But in order for

1474
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 1: it to be effective, you know, you've got to be

1475
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:23,600
Speaker 1: willing to hold your own side accountable too, because I

1476
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:28,479
Speaker 1: do fear that we've one of the reasons why I

1477
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: think everybody believes all politicians are corrupt. You know, he's

1478
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: one person's just behaving more corruptly, more brazenly, you know,

1479
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: waving at the camera as they shoplift. It is. But

1480
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 1: if you want to make your case and you want

1481
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,720
Speaker 1: the voters to think you're credible, also advocate for a

1482
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 1: system that tries to minimize the corruption. Not just identify

1483
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:56,480
Speaker 1: who's corrupt, but come up with a plan to minimize

1484
01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:02,640
Speaker 1: the ability. Look, elected officials are corrupt, the every everybody's corruptible.

1485
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 1: The question is do you have some systems in place

1486
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:12,639
Speaker 1: to maybe make corrupting an elected official difficult? Right? Campaign

1487
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 1: finance limits, things like public disclosure forms like that, And

1488
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:18,759
Speaker 1: you hope you This is why I think you should

1489
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:25,760
Speaker 1: why character is destiny. I've always vote on character before ideology,

1490
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:30,280
Speaker 1: before points of view. I always vote character first because ultimately,

1491
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: are you going to be honest when the chips are down,

1492
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:35,760
Speaker 1: not when it's easy to not when you're getting close

1493
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: to election day. So I think I do think it

1494
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 1: is It is a you know, this is this is

1495
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 1: where I think the third Party of you know, the

1496
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 1: Forward Party was ever going to find a moment, if

1497
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 1: the Libertarian Party was ever going to find a moment.

1498
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 1: We're in one of these moments right where there's a

1499
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 1: lot of distrust. You point out the unfavored abilities of

1500
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:02,720
Speaker 1: the Democrats in some cases are worse than the Republicans,

1501
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 1: even as people identify don't like the what appears to

1502
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 1: be just a transactional uh nature that that that the

1503
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 1: uh that the Trump administration is created. It's a I

1504
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,720
Speaker 1: think that's I think corruptions the the opportunity for a

1505
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: third party candidate. We need to clean it all up.

1506
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:26,920
Speaker 1: You can't trust a Democrat or Republican to clean it up.

1507
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 1: You're going to have to fire both parties. And I

1508
01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:34,640
Speaker 1: think that if you were trying to be a successful

1509
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:39,240
Speaker 1: third party insurgency, corruption would actually be the first place

1510
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 1: to start, because I think you I think that that

1511
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 1: independent voter in some ways is a bit let they are,

1512
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: they're very safe. I think you can you can end

1513
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 1: up appealing to some on the left and some on

1514
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: the right who do care about characters.

1515
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 3: Mh.

1516
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 1: This comes from Alex in North Carolina. He says, love

1517
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: your long in depth show, Well thanks, always do the

1518
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,559
Speaker 1: full episode. Well right on there it is even if

1519
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 1: it takes you out, you could, you know, take throughout

1520
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: the day, take the entire day, to finish it, finish

1521
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: it up right. I wonder if dem should reverse their playbooks,

1522
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 1: surprise Trump by welcoming the National Guard into the Blue cities,

1523
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 1: then claim that the red cities are the crime ridden ones.

1524
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:28,640
Speaker 1: No one likes crime, and I think this could up

1525
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:32,479
Speaker 1: end Trump's plan. Alex Carborough, North Carolina, Well that's pretty

1526
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: much what maryol Bowser's saying. It's what Wes Moore is

1527
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:39,479
Speaker 1: doing in Baltimore. And I think it's a giant mistake

1528
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 1: of how Governor Pritzker's handled the Chicago situation. I mean,

1529
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:46,719
Speaker 1: the fact is we've had violent, too much violence in Chicago.

1530
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:50,640
Speaker 1: Now you could I've had I've had so many conversations

1531
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: about the Chicago issue, and you know, some of it

1532
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,240
Speaker 1: is how the city was originally laid out, and there's

1533
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:59,839
Speaker 1: always been all sorts of rationalizations to why there's violence.

1534
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 1: This is what you're advocating is essentially the Bill Clinton playbook. Yes,

1535
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:12,759
Speaker 1: let's do it right. Nineteen ninety four, Republicans one using

1536
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 1: in some cases three strikes in you're out. That was

1537
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:17,639
Speaker 1: this mantra three. And of course we've since said, well,

1538
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,639
Speaker 1: maybe that was those penalties were too harsh, those mandatory

1539
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 1: sentencing and all of this stuff that it really especially

1540
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:29,120
Speaker 1: for nonviolent on the nonviolent criminal side. But the point

1541
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 1: was that was popular. And Bill Clinton's party got hammered

1542
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: at at the midterms, and he comes and basically leans in, yes,

1543
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 1: let's get more cops on the street. So I don't

1544
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:45,080
Speaker 1: think you're wrong, and I think, you know, the best

1545
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:48,799
Speaker 1: way to take an issue off the table is to say, yes, yes,

1546
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: let's deal with it, let's go instead of fighting with data.

1547
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we just learned the vibes, right, I mean,

1548
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 1: how silly does the Biden Harris team look now know about?

1549
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: But the data shows the economies healthier, you know, you know,

1550
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,639
Speaker 1: the you know, the media is you know, not recording

1551
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 1: it correctly. Actually we were, because the perception of the

1552
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 1: economy is reality. Right. If you don't think the economy

1553
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:19,439
Speaker 1: is good, you pull back yourself, you start you start

1554
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 1: making you know, sometimes it's subconscious, you don't even realize,

1555
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 1: but when you have this feeling that things are are

1556
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 1: not in the best shape, you might I don't think

1557
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to go on this trip, or I don't

1558
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 1: think I'm going to you know, go out tonight, and

1559
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 1: you do, and everybody just pulls back a little bit

1560
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 1: and suddenly everybody's pulled back. Point was the vibes mattered? Right?

1561
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 1: But anyway it goes. Sometimes you say yes and then

1562
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 1: you can have a debate about how you should do it.

1563
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:51,600
Speaker 1: What's the best way to do this? We got to

1564
01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 1: deal with this. Is it your way or is it

1565
01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 1: our way? But you got to acknowledge reality. All right,

1566
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to do one more question here and then

1567
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave you with of what will be

1568
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:11,360
Speaker 1: a weekly segment every week I do NFL games with

1569
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:15,639
Speaker 1: my friend Tony Kornheiser. It's me and a monkey. What

1570
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to do is less about picks, but sort

1571
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:20,600
Speaker 1: of more of the games that are interesting me, the

1572
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:23,559
Speaker 1: interested interesting to me this week, and how I'm watching

1573
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 1: college football for the week ahead. But let me take

1574
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: this last question here comes from Jim in Pennsylvania. Says

1575
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:32,280
Speaker 1: that the media hounded Trump about the poor judgment of Kennedy.

1576
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:34,679
Speaker 1: Would he not then be more inclined to closely watch

1577
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: him or fire him? I think so, And I think

1578
01:34:37,479 --> 01:34:44,640
Speaker 1: the fact is he is sensitive to he is sensitive

1579
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 1: to how many people don't like what Kennedy's up to

1580
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:49,960
Speaker 1: and how I mean I think we you know, Bill

1581
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 1: Crystal writes these imaginary memos in the voice of Donald

1582
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:58,240
Speaker 1: Trump sometimes or and I think he's had one where

1583
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:03,800
Speaker 1: he imagines calling him, going, Dad, these vaccines, I don't

1584
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:05,400
Speaker 1: want to send my kid to US. I've got my

1585
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: kid in school here in Florida, and these vaccines we

1586
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:08,960
Speaker 1: need the mandatory.

1587
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:09,200
Speaker 3: Right.

1588
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:13,840
Speaker 1: Whether that conversation happened or not, it was interesting to

1589
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:16,120
Speaker 1: me that Trump went out of his way to say no, no, no,

1590
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: These these vaccines have been tested and they've stood the

1591
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,519
Speaker 1: test of time. And frankly, you know, Trump is of

1592
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 1: the generation he's you know, I think I've shared with

1593
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 1: you on here. But my father got a lot of

1594
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:33,799
Speaker 1: these childhood diseases, and you know I heard the stories.

1595
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 1: You know, he'd get the measles and they quickly put

1596
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:42,200
Speaker 1: a you know, quarantine sign on their front door, you know,

1597
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:45,400
Speaker 1: because that we didn't have a vaccine then. So Donald

1598
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:48,439
Speaker 1: Trump lived in a lived in that world. He grew up.

1599
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:50,439
Speaker 1: He's just two years older. He was born two years

1600
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:52,800
Speaker 1: before my father was born. But he grew up in

1601
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:55,720
Speaker 1: that world. So in some ways it may take older.

1602
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 1: This is one case where an older politician with a

1603
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:00,240
Speaker 1: memory of what life was like before we had some

1604
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 1: of these vaccines. You know, so that these millennial wellness

1605
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 1: people who don't have a lived experience about what life

1606
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:17,160
Speaker 1: was like before these vaccines. You know now why Kennedy

1607
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 1: doesn't see it. He's on the older side. But he's

1608
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 1: lived a life for privilege. It isn't He's never lived

1609
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 1: in the real world. So what does he know? Right?

1610
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 1: He lives in a he's he was born into a

1611
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 1: protective bubble, and he's lived in this protective bubble. He

1612
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 1: was bailed out of every bad decision he made, So

1613
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:35,640
Speaker 1: how does he know how the real world works and

1614
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: how dangerous these viruses really are? You're not wrong, and

1615
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:48,559
Speaker 1: I look, I fully believe. I fully believe that it's

1616
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:52,799
Speaker 1: not a matter of if. But when Trump decides it's

1617
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 1: uh that that Kennedy bag anti vax baggage is too

1618
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 1: heavy to be carrying around in his administration. All right,

1619
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:09,559
Speaker 1: before I let you go for the weekend, uh I am.

1620
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:13,519
Speaker 1: I am not here to make bets for you or

1621
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 1: anything like that, but these are the games this weekend. Obviously,

1622
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 1: the game I care about the most is Miami versus

1623
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:23,799
Speaker 1: South Florida. I am relieved that you that the USF,

1624
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:27,960
Speaker 1: UH that USF beat the Gators last week, because it

1625
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 1: means Miami won't be overlooking them. Uh, they'll be fully prepared.

1626
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 1: If you're if you're not following the Miami Hurricanes as

1627
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:38,760
Speaker 1: closely as I do, this is going to be the

1628
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:42,639
Speaker 1: second of four straight games against teams from the state

1629
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:45,280
Speaker 1: of Florida. In the state of Florida, it'll be five

1630
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:48,759
Speaker 1: straight games. I don't think the In fact, the Hurricanes

1631
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:51,240
Speaker 1: don't leave the state of Florida to play a football

1632
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 1: game until November one, which is why if there was

1633
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: ever a year to be striving for a championship, whether

1634
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:04,799
Speaker 1: conference or even bigger, the scheduling gods were on our side.

1635
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:07,519
Speaker 1: And this is going pretty well. This is exactly the

1636
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:09,920
Speaker 1: way you want it. By the way, speaking at Florida,

1637
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:13,920
Speaker 1: they play LSU, We play the Gators next week. So

1638
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,120
Speaker 1: Florida LSU is a game I'm gonna have my eye on,

1639
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 1: and let's just say I really would like to see

1640
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:22,080
Speaker 1: the Gators win that game. But that is I got

1641
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,639
Speaker 1: two games I'm watching this week that are the hot

1642
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:30,160
Speaker 1: seat coaching hot seat games. One is Wisconsin at Alabama.

1643
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 1: Luke Fickle at Wisconsin Caitlin de board Alabama a huge blowout.

1644
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:40,599
Speaker 1: If Wisconsin gets blown out, blown the doors off forty

1645
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 1: to fifty point loss, I do think that there's going

1646
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: to be more and more conversations about fickle, fair unfair.

1647
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:50,680
Speaker 1: Wisconsin wants to be they want to move into that

1648
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 1: top tier of college football. They've always been like right

1649
01:38:53,120 --> 01:38:56,759
Speaker 1: on the cusp. Always feels like they're like one game away,

1650
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,880
Speaker 1: another player away. I think they thought that fickle would

1651
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, he took the University Cincinnati, took them to

1652
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:08,640
Speaker 1: the playoff when they had that undefeated season, right, so

1653
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 1: he can't get blown out? And then poor Kalin de

1654
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,120
Speaker 1: boor Yeah, he put up seventy points last week, but

1655
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: what have you done for me lately? And when you're

1656
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 1: the successor to Nick Saban, you got to win every

1657
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:21,800
Speaker 1: game big. If somehow he got upset in this game,

1658
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:27,280
Speaker 1: Paul Finebaum would only be taking calls on his radio show.

1659
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:29,760
Speaker 1: Another game that I care about a lot is going

1660
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:33,080
Speaker 1: to be Clemson Georgia Tech. I think loser is out

1661
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:36,240
Speaker 1: of the ACC race, not necessarily to win the conference,

1662
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:38,920
Speaker 1: but probably has to win out in order to get

1663
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: a chance at the college football playoff. Georgia Tech is

1664
01:39:41,240 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 1: A is kryptonite to the University of Miami. I I've

1665
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 1: been skeptical of Clemson. I didn't understand the hype of Clemson.

1666
01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:56,400
Speaker 1: I never have understood the hype of Clemson for this team.

1667
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 1: I think we're going to learn a lot about that

1668
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:00,599
Speaker 1: team because I don't know if anybody's good. We still

1669
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 1: don't fully know. We think we do. I think Miami's

1670
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 1: good because I think Notre Dame's good. Let's just say,

1671
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 1: as a Miami fan, I hope Notre Dame beats Texas

1672
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 1: A and M this weekend. That's going to be another

1673
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,519
Speaker 1: interesting game, probably a must win for Notre Dame if

1674
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 1: they want to make the playoff ten and two and

1675
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:20,120
Speaker 1: both of and they have two losses to an M

1676
01:40:20,120 --> 01:40:23,519
Speaker 1: and Miami and no other great win. USC could be

1677
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 1: a good win for them if they get there. I

1678
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:27,600
Speaker 1: think they need this win ten and two. With a

1679
01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 1: win over an SEC team and lost somewhere else, they

1680
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:32,920
Speaker 1: get in for sure ten and two without a win

1681
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:34,840
Speaker 1: over either Miami or a an M. That could be

1682
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 1: a problem there. And for my South Florida friends, Pitt

1683
01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 1: Bull Stadium, FIU FAU, nobody outside of Boca ratone and

1684
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: west Chester in Miami may care about this game, but

1685
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 1: I kind of do. It's actually a fun little rivalry

1686
01:40:56,760 --> 01:41:00,000
Speaker 1: that's sprung up here. Feels like FAU always beats FIU.

1687
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:03,280
Speaker 1: You But this one's a home game, so let's go

1688
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 1: fighting pit bulls. And then if you can't sleep, I

1689
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:10,600
Speaker 1: think that the surprise game of the day starts at

1690
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:13,560
Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night and it's the University of Minnesota

1691
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:19,400
Speaker 1: playing the cow Bears, two interesting new quarterbacks playing. If

1692
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: you have insomnia, that might be the game that you

1693
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 1: that sneakily is the most fun game to watch all

1694
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 1: weekend long. So again, I'm not here to give you

1695
01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:35,840
Speaker 1: give throw up picks like that. For now, I'll let

1696
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 1: you know how I do this weekend, and then maybe

1697
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 1: maybe I'll feel confident enough to share to share some

1698
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 1: of those things. So anyway, with that, look, college football

1699
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 1: is a distraction, right, It's a good distraction, and well

1700
01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 1: you know, we all you don't want to you don't

1701
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 1: want to wallow, and you don't want to forget either,

1702
01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 1: So have a RESTful weekend. Remember, maybe find a way

1703
01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: to do your part to de escalate. Do you have

1704
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:12,879
Speaker 1: a friend who always seems to be a little harsh

1705
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 1: about the other side politically, maybe say hey, let's tone

1706
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:22,840
Speaker 1: it down. Can't we do this differently anyway? As they

1707
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: used to say on the First Great TV Show, let's

1708
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: be careful out there. Have a good beginning.