Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,
Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over there, and this
Speaker 1: is Stuff you should Know. Titanic Edition, Part two, this sequel.
Speaker 1: When we last left off, the Titanic had just set sail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was you you. I'd like to say it was
Speaker 1: in fine shape, but it had almost sucked another ship
Speaker 1: into it, and it had a coal fire aboard. But
Speaker 1: other than that, it was doing just fine. I wonder
Speaker 1: if the captain, after they averted hitting the New York
Speaker 1: was like, did you see those guys? They were totally
Speaker 1: pooping in their pants? Yeah, give them, give me another too,
Speaker 1: don't mess with me. So, uh yeah, I don't have
Speaker 1: the impression that the captain, I don't know if we
Speaker 1: said his name or not yet, Edward Smith, um his name.
Speaker 1: I don't know that he what he certainly doesn't in
Speaker 1: retrospect have a uh sterling reputation. No, no, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, he doesn't have a reputation that is um
Speaker 1: like that of a maverick necessarily, like I think, have
Speaker 1: a sterling reputation at least exactly like he was. I
Speaker 1: saw in a I think a PBS documentary that that
Speaker 1: like captains like this at the time were likened to
Speaker 1: rock stars of today, like they had their own fans,
Speaker 1: and like it was a like you knew what captain
Speaker 1: you were sailing with, and it was a big deal.
Speaker 1: And he was one of the most famous and well
Speaker 1: well respected, if not revered as far as the captains go.
Speaker 1: But over time, yeah, exactly like stooping. But over time, um,
Speaker 1: because of like the inquiries and the desire to place
Speaker 1: blame and define like simple answers and compartmentalize everything, he's
Speaker 1: been um kind of painted with inaccurate brush that loses
Speaker 1: a lot of nuance. And one of the ways that
Speaker 1: he has been missle able that makes him seem like
Speaker 1: a maverick is that he was going full speed ahead,
Speaker 1: trying to break speed records, wanted to get there as
Speaker 1: fast as possible to show up those Kunard jerks, And
Speaker 1: that seems to just be not the case at all.
Speaker 1: And in fact, yes, the Titanic was going very fast.
Speaker 1: But according to a m an Irish journalist who has
Speaker 1: done a lot of research on this UH scene in
Speaker 1: Maloney I believe is their name, UH they were going
Speaker 1: that fast because they were trying to they were having
Speaker 1: to use up more coal to keep that fire from spreading,
Speaker 1: and that he didn't really have that much of a
Speaker 1: say in how fast the thing was going because they
Speaker 1: had to keep the coal fire under control. I'd like
Speaker 1: to slow down. Are we still on fire? Or we
Speaker 1: can't slow down there? But that really kind of goes
Speaker 1: to show you. It's like like really teaches you, like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've lost a lot of like the details here, or
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that. Pop Cole sure has lost a
Speaker 1: lot of the details. There are plenty of people out
Speaker 1: there who know details like that. Those are the people
Speaker 1: you should listen to. Those are the people who we
Speaker 1: listened to. So you can feel pretty comfortable listening to
Speaker 1: us for the last episode in this one. Let's begin
Speaker 1: now to alright, so fast forward from April eleven, when
Speaker 1: it sets sail to April fourteen. We all know what
Speaker 1: happens over those three days. There's some steamy love making
Speaker 1: in the back of a car in the cargo hold,
Speaker 1: drawing me like one of your French girls. Wasn't that
Speaker 1: a good Kate Winslett, Yeah, I thought you were doing
Speaker 1: Leo either one would have been funny. Okay, there's room
Speaker 1: for me on that door. That was Leo. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: she said no, there's not. Oh man, we lost a
Speaker 1: bunch of listeners. No, no, it shook. I mean, can
Speaker 1: you joke about that? So it is the night of
Speaker 1: April fourteenth, twelve. This is the third day out. It
Speaker 1: is very cold. The water is about twenty degrees fahrenheit
Speaker 1: uh negative two point to celsius. And around noon that
Speaker 1: day some things started happening. They had this really cool
Speaker 1: modern Marconi wireless system where they could receive messages wirelessly,
Speaker 1: and the operators on board started receiving the first of
Speaker 1: at least what would be for messages about ice and
Speaker 1: like a big, big ice that's in the water. A
Speaker 1: second one comes in at five thirty five from an
Speaker 1: actual ship that said, hey, icebergs nineteen miles north of
Speaker 1: from right, you're headed right toward towards these ice bergs,
Speaker 1: and you know what they say, like they don't look
Speaker 1: big on top, but there could be serious trouble underneath.
Speaker 1: They really fill out under water. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: the thing. Uh. In about an hour before the collision,
Speaker 1: pm UH, the Californian which was a nearby vessel, said hey,
Speaker 1: we're stopped. We're surrounded by ice, and the operator on
Speaker 1: the Titanic said, literally, shut up, I am busy. I'm
Speaker 1: working Cape Race, which apparently was a relay station in Newfoundland,
Speaker 1: and they were busy sending out messages for the passengers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the passengers could pace about sixty five bucks to send
Speaker 1: a Marconi Graham to basically show off to their friends
Speaker 1: and family back home that they were setting slow from
Speaker 1: the middle of the ocean. Yeah, because the postcard they
Speaker 1: sent was just in the mail room aboard the same
Speaker 1: ship at the same time as them. This this Marconi
Speaker 1: graham could go out immediately. So the first class passengers
Speaker 1: were sending out little hellos to the tune of about
Speaker 1: two d and fifty of them, I believe, just that day.
Speaker 1: So the Marconi operators were very much overworked, which is
Speaker 1: why he told the other one to shut up. Apparently
Speaker 1: said it twice, said shut up, shut up, exclamation points too.
Speaker 1: So two hundred and fifty first class passengers sent us
Speaker 1: just that day. It's like there were only three hundred
Speaker 1: and something first class aboard, so that was most of
Speaker 1: the first class. Yeah, well, hopefully there wasn't just like
Speaker 1: some obnoxious one that had sent out like ten or
Speaker 1: twelve but who knows, right, he was like, or send
Speaker 1: another marcornograph about Picasso. Yeah, so um he uh he,
Speaker 1: I was just thinking of Billy's ain again. Um, the
Speaker 1: Marconi operators like the presence of this, this Marconi wireless
Speaker 1: thing on board was just as cutting edges technology got
Speaker 1: at the time. It was a text. Basically, there were
Speaker 1: so few ships that had wireless aboard that it was
Speaker 1: just it was just nuts, which is why so many
Speaker 1: people were sending Marconi grams to show off. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, the fact that there were these wireless
Speaker 1: radios on some ships, including ships that were in the area,
Speaker 1: means that the Titanic did have warning that there was
Speaker 1: an ice flow like in between them in New York,
Speaker 1: and they started, you know, like you were saying, they
Speaker 1: were receiving warnings about the icebergs and ice flows. And
Speaker 1: again Captain Smith is depicted as having ignored this and
Speaker 1: just heedlessly headed on full steam ahead into an ice field,
Speaker 1: even though he had been warned against it. And from
Speaker 1: what I saw, um, this is again a mischaracterization because
Speaker 1: he didn't receive any warnings that that would warrant slowing
Speaker 1: down or changing course or anything like that. He knew
Speaker 1: that there are icebergs. It's just kind of like if
Speaker 1: somebody was saying, there's an iceberg twenty miles ahead of
Speaker 1: your your projected course, you know, heads up, he'd be like, okay,
Speaker 1: good to know, but that wouldn't require you to do
Speaker 1: anything about it. But there was one, the very faithful
Speaker 1: one that really may have sealed the fate of everybody
Speaker 1: aboard the Titanic. And that was that last one that
Speaker 1: um came in at eleven forty that said we're stopped
Speaker 1: and surrounded by ice That apparently did not make it
Speaker 1: to the captain as far as I know. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: like the deal, You're right, the deal was is is.
Speaker 1: Icebergs were very common. It wasn't like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there are icebergs, we gotta stop everybody like they were
Speaker 1: used to dealing with icebergs. It was just a heads up.
Speaker 1: And that that last one may have been a big
Speaker 1: difference maker. Right, So, um, they knew that they are icebergs, um,
Speaker 1: but there was nothing to be worried about as far
Speaker 1: as they could tell. Uh. And when when Captain Smith
Speaker 1: handed over command of the ship for the night to um.
Speaker 1: I think, uh, Charles second officer, Charles Lightholer. So when
Speaker 1: he handed it over Lightholer he said, hey, um, if
Speaker 1: conditions become hazy, let me know and we'll you know,
Speaker 1: we'll slow down, but until then, full speed ahead. And
Speaker 1: it turns out that the night of April fourteenth, nine twelve,
Speaker 1: in the area of the North Atlantic was incredibly calm.
Speaker 1: The sea was like glass. Um, it wasn't hazy at all.
Speaker 1: It was totally clear, and there was no moon and
Speaker 1: lots of stars, so they couldn't see very far because
Speaker 1: there wasn't much light. They didn't have binoculars in the lookout. Um.
Speaker 1: But also because the sea was calm, there were no
Speaker 1: waves to um give out any telltale characteristics of breaking
Speaker 1: against iceberg's. It was just nothing but clear water everywhere
Speaker 1: they could see. So there was not a lot of
Speaker 1: chance of them spotting icebergs under the conditions that they
Speaker 1: were dealing with. So, speaking of the moon, did you
Speaker 1: ever hear that theory about how the moon could have
Speaker 1: impacted the fact that the iceberg was where it was?
Speaker 1: There was apparently on January four, a few months before
Speaker 1: the Titanic. The Moon made its closest approach to Earth
Speaker 1: in about four hundred years, which a so coincided within
Speaker 1: six minutes of a spring tide, which is the semi
Speaker 1: monthly alignment of the Sun and the Moon with the Earth.
Speaker 1: And basically all of this ends up in especially high
Speaker 1: tides entitle currents, and this was a really big year
Speaker 1: for icebergs. There were about double the amount of icebergs
Speaker 1: than average. And what usually happens is when they kind
Speaker 1: of calve off from where they start, they end up
Speaker 1: getting kind of hung up um when it gets into
Speaker 1: sort of shallower lanes, and that almost always happens. It
Speaker 1: kind of keeps them in place. But because of this
Speaker 1: strong spring tide, it may have like sent more icebergs
Speaker 1: out to see than normal. That's nuts, man. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: you know, again it's one of these things that other
Speaker 1: people are like, you know, everyone's trying to find these
Speaker 1: retroactive things to blame. But I think it all kind
Speaker 1: of adds up when you start looking at sort of
Speaker 1: the sliding doors theory of of fate, that it all
Speaker 1: sort of ended up impacting what happened that night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's another reason why people are so
Speaker 1: engrossed by it because again, it's like it just seems
Speaker 1: almost preordained. Yeah, and that is very often traced back
Speaker 1: to this hubris that um kind of infested the whole
Speaker 1: origin and an idea of the Titanic, um that it
Speaker 1: was unsinkable and that it was just the biggest thing
Speaker 1: ever made. We're going to send it out as fast
Speaker 1: as we want. Um. That that is that that just
Speaker 1: seems like they were sailing into fate just from those things.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean it's it is like a
Speaker 1: Hollywood script or something, but you know, it really happened.
Speaker 1: I know, somebody should make a movie out of him,
Speaker 1: so and get someone else to write it. Um oh Man.
Speaker 1: Eight hours long, Frederick Fleet and Reginald Lee were in
Speaker 1: the crow's nest, and I think Fleet is the one
Speaker 1: that later said that binoculars could have really helped, because
Speaker 1: Fleet was the one who was close to the end
Speaker 1: of the shift when he saw this iceberg. He sounds
Speaker 1: an alarm down to the bridge and First Officer William
Speaker 1: Murdoch was up there in about thirty seven seconds said
Speaker 1: stop the engines, go full speed astern, which was very
Speaker 1: common maneuver to sort of try and dodge something if
Speaker 1: you're in a big ship like that. And you know
Speaker 1: this again in retrospect, this was not a great idea.
Speaker 1: Uh they Some people posit that if it had just
Speaker 1: gone straight and hit this thing head on, it might
Speaker 1: not have sunk, but it ended up turning just enough
Speaker 1: to hit a very and especially when you factor in
Speaker 1: that fire, if that actually was a thing that weakened it,
Speaker 1: it hit the whole at a very vulnerable spot, possibly
Speaker 1: it's most vulnerable spot because of that fire. But also
Speaker 1: even had that fire not been there, it was like
Speaker 1: that was the Achilles heel of the the Titanic that area.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's tough to to fault Murdoch for,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to spin away for it, but it
Speaker 1: was it was well, it isn't except or it was
Speaker 1: an accepted technique to also just ram Iceberg head on um.
Speaker 1: But the reason Murdoch chose, probably why he chose not
Speaker 1: to do that, was because if you did that head on,
Speaker 1: you're gonna send everything and everybody lurching forward, because it's
Speaker 1: a head on collision. Um. When you side swipe something,
Speaker 1: that's much less jarring. And in fact, the passengers who
Speaker 1: did survive. The Titanic later said that there was a
Speaker 1: slight jar when this thing hit the iceberg. Um so
Speaker 1: much so that I think a passenger said, had he
Speaker 1: been holding a full glass of water, not a drop
Speaker 1: would have been spilled. So he did it I think
Speaker 1: out of instinct, because nobody wants to hit anything head on.
Speaker 1: But I think he also did it to spare the
Speaker 1: passengers and the crew and the cargo being jostled and
Speaker 1: jarred as rudely as they would have been had they
Speaker 1: hit it head on. Yeah. And this is where those
Speaker 1: rivets come into play as well, because it is theorized
Speaker 1: that because those rivets didn't hold like they should, uh,
Speaker 1: it ended up buckling the ship right there. And apparently
Speaker 1: it's that buckling that really sort of uh put the
Speaker 1: nail in the coffin for the Titanic. Yeah, like it
Speaker 1: might have survived the gouges had it not been for
Speaker 1: the buckling. Apparently. Yeah. Um so the I guess the
Speaker 1: buckling kind of pulled the rivets or the seams apart,
Speaker 1: and that allowed the water in. Is that the idea
Speaker 1: behind it? I think so, because you know they started Murdoch,
Speaker 1: you know, said let's get all these watertight door shut,
Speaker 1: which was a really really great move, but it was
Speaker 1: too late and they were there were five of them
Speaker 1: that were filling up. They originally thought. You know, Captain
Speaker 1: Smith was like, there, you know, there must be a
Speaker 1: three foot hole in this thing. Uh. And I saw
Speaker 1: a couple of different numbers. This article from how Stuff
Speaker 1: Works says three point two square feet for these six
Speaker 1: slim lacerations on the boat, I saw about twelve square feet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I saw I like into about two sidewalk squares. Um,
Speaker 1: like that took down the titan Now can you imagine?
Speaker 1: And that nuts Like of course you would think Captain
Speaker 1: Smith would be like, it's got to be a three
Speaker 1: ft gash just to have that kind of water, And
Speaker 1: he wouldn't know. It's not like he could see, like
Speaker 1: this was beneath the water. It struck the iceberg underwater. Um,
Speaker 1: so it was just an estimate. But yeah, now we
Speaker 1: know from from going down and looking at the Titanic, uh,
Speaker 1: using sonar, just how small they were. So just a
Speaker 1: couple of sidewalk squares. Huh. Yeah. And you know, the
Speaker 1: the really brutal part is Andrew's kind of just like
Speaker 1: in the movie Victor Garber. Once he got worded that
Speaker 1: there were five of those cavities filling up with water,
Speaker 1: he was like, that's it, man, Like we could have
Speaker 1: survived four. But and I know it doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: it right now, but this ship is going to go down. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you remember, I think in the first
Speaker 1: one we said that the thing was designed to be
Speaker 1: just fine with two and that four it could probably
Speaker 1: make it, but five was the magic number. With five,
Speaker 1: it was like, this is this is not going to
Speaker 1: end well at all. And even with four compartments full
Speaker 1: and sealed off, there's a good possibility that the Titanic
Speaker 1: would have sunk, but it might have taken so long
Speaker 1: to sink that all of the everybody aboard would have
Speaker 1: easily made their way off. But that five, that fifth
Speaker 1: compartment was just it was just terrible, um because not
Speaker 1: only was the Titanic doom to sink, it was doomed
Speaker 1: to sink very very fast. I think Andrew's estimated two
Speaker 1: hours basically when he found out how many compartments were filling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really the speed. And if you're saying to yourself,
Speaker 1: but Josh, how can you say that when they were
Speaker 1: short lifeboats. As we'll see, there were other ships nearby
Speaker 1: that that that likely would have gotten there quicker, or
Speaker 1: not gotten there quicker, but gotten there quick enough had
Speaker 1: it sunk lower to get people off of that thing. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: take a break, Yeah, I think so I could use one, buddy.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break and we'll talk about
Speaker 1: what happened after that chunk of ice fell near Caton
Speaker 1: Leo right after this. So, um, when when Thomas Andrews
Speaker 1: explained to Captain Smith, like, this is going down and
Speaker 1: it's going to happen in about two hours. Um, Smith
Speaker 1: basically gathered his crew and said, hey, this is you know,
Speaker 1: the ship is sinking. We need to get everybody to
Speaker 1: the lifeboats. Um. He started, he started lowering the lifeboats.
Speaker 1: But apparently, from from what I've read aboard the Titanic,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have known that that the ship was sinking
Speaker 1: based on the activity and the behavior of everyone aboard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: most people were kind of going about like their business,
Speaker 1: hanging out in the lounge, still sleeping, Um, getting ready
Speaker 1: to go to bed. Because this is I think around
Speaker 1: eleven or so when when it struck the iceberg, and
Speaker 1: like I said, it was such a faint jar that
Speaker 1: I think people couldn't believe that the Titanic would be
Speaker 1: taken down by something that only produced that that faint
Speaker 1: of a jar um. And so a lot of people
Speaker 1: just kind of acted like nothing was wrong. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: crew included, I think it was. I think when the
Speaker 1: message went out from the captain, there was a lot
Speaker 1: of disbelief all the way around, right like, surely if
Speaker 1: we hit an iceberg bad enough to sink it, we
Speaker 1: would it would be you know, it would be evident,
Speaker 1: like just standing here like, but that's just not the case.
Speaker 1: And you know, because it was so large, uh you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, you wouldn't even spill a glass of water.
Speaker 1: So no one except Leo and Kate they saw that
Speaker 1: chunk of ice fall. Yeah, oh yeah, they I forgot.
Speaker 1: They were witnesses to it. They knew what was going on.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah, they were out there, King
Speaker 1: and Queen of the world. All right, So ulf the
Speaker 1: captain is sending out messages and I mentioned that ship nearby.
Speaker 1: There were a couple but the Carpathia was a Cunard
Speaker 1: Line steamer, and they were like, oh, you need help,
Speaker 1: do you back. No, they acted fast, of course, but
Speaker 1: they were about fifty eight miles away and they knew.
Speaker 1: They're like, there's no way we can get there in time. No,
Speaker 1: especially not if it's going to sink in a couple
Speaker 1: of hours. But again, had you know, even just the
Speaker 1: only four compartments not flooded, the Carpathia probably could have
Speaker 1: made it there in plenty of time. But there was actually,
Speaker 1: Chuck another ship, though, the Californian, that was closer to
Speaker 1: the Titanic, and as we'll see in the inquiry that followed,
Speaker 1: it's basically the Carpathia hero California villain. The Californian was
Speaker 1: um accused of basically refusing to render aid, and that
Speaker 1: just wasn't the case. Um, there was a mystery ship
Speaker 1: that very much did refuse to render aid and just
Speaker 1: pretended like it didn't see what was going on. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was actually a ship called the Mount Temple that
Speaker 1: was keptain by a man named James Moore, Captain James Moore.
Speaker 1: That was I believe, within ten miles of the Titanic
Speaker 1: the entire time that some passengers and crew uh later
Speaker 1: said they could see the lights, they could hear the
Speaker 1: lifeboats being lowered. They could hear the cries of people
Speaker 1: in the in the water, and that survivors said they
Speaker 1: saw another ship. They there was close enough that they
Speaker 1: could see some of the porthole lights, like that's how
Speaker 1: close it was, and that it just sat there, wouldn't
Speaker 1: come And it was because the captain made the decision
Speaker 1: that that he wasn't gonna risk go anyto the ice
Speaker 1: ice flows. Well, he also didn't come forward and say, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was me. He let um the captain of the Californian,
Speaker 1: Stanley Lord take the take the blame. And Stanley Lord
Speaker 1: went to his grave basically a disgraced captain, even though
Speaker 1: he would be vindicated when they finally found the Titanic
Speaker 1: and said, oh wait, you were way far away. And
Speaker 1: also more to the point, you didn't realize that the
Speaker 1: Titanic was in distress. So history has rehabilitated a lot
Speaker 1: of people. But at the time, and for many many years,
Speaker 1: you know, we like simple stories where there's a hero
Speaker 1: and a villain, and the Carpathio was the hero in
Speaker 1: the Californian was the villain. That's right, good story, I
Speaker 1: think so too. So they're giving out these life jackets, uh,
Speaker 1: made of or plenty of those, and they I think
Speaker 1: there was room for eleven seventy six passengers on lifeboats
Speaker 1: if they're all full. Uh. There were about two d
Speaker 1: and change of passengers and crew aboard. So at am,
Speaker 1: the captain says, start lowering these things. Let's get those
Speaker 1: first class passengers in there first. I think there were
Speaker 1: fourteen of the lifeboats, were the big daddies that could
Speaker 1: carry sixty five people. Uh. There were I think two
Speaker 1: emergency ones that could carry thirty five each, and then
Speaker 1: four collapsible boats that could carry forty nine people each.
Speaker 1: And uh, I see different numbers bandied about, but supposedly
Speaker 1: that first lifeboat uh, and maybe the first few were
Speaker 1: not full. And I think that first one only had
Speaker 1: anywhere from five to eight people out of sixty five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: mostly because there are a lot of people aboard who
Speaker 1: were like, I don't believe the Titanic is sinking, and
Speaker 1: that getting in that life seems way more dangerous to
Speaker 1: me than staying more than nice, warm, toasty Titanic where
Speaker 1: there's lots of brandy to be had. Um. And that's
Speaker 1: why some of those first lifeboats, That's what I was
Speaker 1: saying like it was apparently eerily calm and quiet and
Speaker 1: not at all chaotic. And then when it finally became
Speaker 1: apparent that, yeah, the ship was sinking and no, there's
Speaker 1: not enough lifeboats to save everybody, that's when it became
Speaker 1: rather chaotic. And then suddenly people were not only getting
Speaker 1: into lifeboats until the capacity was full, they were like
Speaker 1: jumping into lifeboats that were being lowered and injuring people
Speaker 1: already in there. Like it it became kind of pan
Speaker 1: ammonium all of a sudden. Yeah, like when your drink
Speaker 1: was sliding off the bar. Then it got real, you know,
Speaker 1: that's right. So, uh, first and class, I'm sorry, First
Speaker 1: and second class passengers are being uh going up to
Speaker 1: the highest deck, which is where these lifeboats are. They
Speaker 1: just like in the movie, the third class passengers were
Speaker 1: you know, kind of locked down there for the time
Speaker 1: being because they were waiting to get other people out
Speaker 1: of the way and then they were going to let
Speaker 1: them out. Uh, And that that John Hart, third class Stewart.
Speaker 1: John Hart basically was like you, a lot of you
Speaker 1: people haven't even been out of third class, so you
Speaker 1: don't even know where to go. So John Hard spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time directing people to the proper route
Speaker 1: to get them to safety or at least an attempt
Speaker 1: at safety. Yeah. I mean there were a lot of like,
Speaker 1: um stories of heroics, of everyday heroics of people who
Speaker 1: were just like, you know, this is my job. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna die doing my job trying to make you know,
Speaker 1: people as safe as possible. Um, And that that's that's
Speaker 1: a John Hart's a very good example of that totally. UM. So,
Speaker 1: the first officer Murdoch and second officer Lighthowler um were
Speaker 1: in charge of overseeing the lifeboats on the port side
Speaker 1: and the starboard side, UM, and they kind of approached
Speaker 1: it differently. I believe Murdoch was basically like, hey, you're breathing,
Speaker 1: get in a lifeboat, or you're just gonna try to
Speaker 1: get as many people out of here as possible, whereas
Speaker 1: light Aller was like, if you're a woman or a child,
Speaker 1: come on, but if you're a man, I'm going to
Speaker 1: shoot my gun in the air. Because by the way,
Speaker 1: all of the officers who were in charge of overseeing
Speaker 1: lifeboats were issued pistols basically keep people in line and
Speaker 1: in worst case scenario, shoot people who tried to get
Speaker 1: aboard lifeboats that otherwise shouldn't have been um and I
Speaker 1: think light aller shot or no, not a light aller.
Speaker 1: I think one of the um the fourth or the
Speaker 1: fifth officer had to fire his gun in the air
Speaker 1: to basically like get people to come back to their
Speaker 1: senses because they were like men were starting to try
Speaker 1: to push aboard lifeboats while women, Yeah, exactly, while women
Speaker 1: and children were still there. So again it was it
Speaker 1: was nice and calm, and everybody was, you know, following
Speaker 1: the order of women and children first. And then you
Speaker 1: know that that kind of started to crumble. Um in place.
Speaker 1: It's not everywhere, but in some places. Billy's ainet grabbed
Speaker 1: a kid. I have a child, remember that? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was in another movie I saw recently. What
Speaker 1: Billy Jane or Billy's Ain't stealing a kid to get
Speaker 1: in the lifeboat. No, I'm trying to think there was
Speaker 1: another movie that was made recently where this couple that's
Speaker 1: like a kind of a post apocalyptic thing or something's
Speaker 1: going This isn't gonna be interesting. I'll try to figure
Speaker 1: it out and tell you later. But somebody else did
Speaker 1: the same thing, grabbed a kid and used a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you don't realize it until about two thirds of
Speaker 1: the way through the movie, and then you're like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Like that's it's it was really well done.
Speaker 1: But I didn't realize that they'd stolen that from Titanic.
Speaker 1: All right, well, let me let me know. Uh, so
Speaker 1: the band really did play on that's that movie scene
Speaker 1: is straight out of reality, apparently, right down to the song.
Speaker 1: I think, um, they say the last song was either
Speaker 1: Autumn or Nearer My God to the and I think
Speaker 1: near my God is the one they played in the movie.
Speaker 1: Very you know, say what you want about the movie.
Speaker 1: That was. There were some really really gripping scenes in
Speaker 1: the second half of that film, and that was one
Speaker 1: of them. Uh. The other one that really always got
Speaker 1: me was uh. And and this is kind of the
Speaker 1: point where we are now with how this thing actually sank. Um,
Speaker 1: when Cathy Bates is as Molly Brown is in that
Speaker 1: lifeboat and sees that those propellers up in the air, Uh,
Speaker 1: it was pretty remarkable. Yeah, the the that those lacerations
Speaker 1: in the hole they took on um like water towards
Speaker 1: the bow, So the front of the ship was suddenly
Speaker 1: much heavier than the back of the ship, and the
Speaker 1: ship was built so strongly even with those sub sub
Speaker 1: standard rivets, the wrought iron ones, that the it didn't
Speaker 1: just break immediately, that it actually lifted up the rear
Speaker 1: and the propellers became became um visible first, and then
Speaker 1: it kept going higher and higher and higher, and then
Speaker 1: the pressure on those on the plates that were that
Speaker 1: whole held the whole thing together became so enormous that
Speaker 1: it was something like seventeen and a half tons of
Speaker 1: pressure per square inch. That's how much pressure was being
Speaker 1: exerted on the basically the halfway point where where the
Speaker 1: where the where the Titanic split in two. And finally
Speaker 1: it did split in two, but it didn't break into
Speaker 1: two immediately. The bottom of the whole, the um that
Speaker 1: connected the front of the back still hung on and
Speaker 1: it almost became like a hinge. And so the whole
Speaker 1: bow went under water, but just dangled there for a
Speaker 1: little while until it finally filled up. And at one
Speaker 1: point the stern, the back half of the ship was
Speaker 1: straight up in the air basically and was about as
Speaker 1: tall as the twenty five story building. Imagine being a
Speaker 1: lift and seeing that I can't I cannot like, I
Speaker 1: can't like all of this, all of these things that
Speaker 1: you're seeing. You're like, this shouldn't be happening. None of
Speaker 1: this should it be, should exist right now? And it was,
Speaker 1: and it was all still it was going pretty fast too.
Speaker 1: I mean like they launched the first lifeboats about two
Speaker 1: hours before. The stern was now suddenly like twenty five
Speaker 1: stories into the air. Finally the bow part fills up
Speaker 1: with enough water that it breaks off and it it
Speaker 1: was so heavy that it traveled the about two point
Speaker 1: four miles down to the sea floor or the Titanic
Speaker 1: rest today, in like six minutes. That's how fast it
Speaker 1: traveled down there, and just hit like a like a missile,
Speaker 1: basically it hit the sea floor. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: obviously this is when they start losing like remarkably they
Speaker 1: had electricity, uh and even I think um radio that
Speaker 1: Marconi was still working for a while. But obviously when
Speaker 1: this thing s puts in half, that's when these flickering
Speaker 1: lights even go out. And that was also a very
Speaker 1: you know, pretty emotional part in the movie, when it
Speaker 1: goes quiet, when you know there's so much chaos going on,
Speaker 1: and when those lights go out in the boat is Finally,
Speaker 1: you know, when both halves fully go underwater, then you're
Speaker 1: just left with screaming human beings. Yeah, there was a
Speaker 1: survivor who said that it sounded to him like the
Speaker 1: sound of all the people crying and screaming and yelling
Speaker 1: for help in the water, that it sounded like the
Speaker 1: sound of Cicada's on like a summer night. It was
Speaker 1: just that kind of frenetic and and all encompassing. But
Speaker 1: then I saw another survivor who said that the worst
Speaker 1: part was when those when it started to like fall silent,
Speaker 1: when they were like fewer and fewer people yelling, because
Speaker 1: you knew that the people who'd just been yelling a
Speaker 1: few minutes before, we're now dead. They'd frozen to death. Apparently,
Speaker 1: the the temperature of the water was so cold that
Speaker 1: you would lose consciousness in about six to twelve minut
Speaker 1: It's basically yeah, and you know, we've been joking around
Speaker 1: and stuff. I think that the adage comedy is tragedy
Speaker 1: plus time. Uh, you can apply here, but we do
Speaker 1: not take any of this slightly. It's at this point
Speaker 1: it is one of the most horrific scenes that anybody
Speaker 1: could ever imagine being a part of absolutely, which is
Speaker 1: again why why so many people celebrate Molly Brown. Um,
Speaker 1: Because there were so many people out in the water
Speaker 1: still with those cork life jackets. Um. The guy who
Speaker 1: I think the quartermaster Robert Hitchens, who was basically the
Speaker 1: captain of the lifeboat that Molly Brown happened to be in,
Speaker 1: refused to go try to pick up survivors who might
Speaker 1: be in the water. He said, they're all dead and
Speaker 1: she's She threatened apparently to throw him overboard if he
Speaker 1: didn't go find people. And what was amazing is that
Speaker 1: some people did actually survive. Um. The chief baker, his
Speaker 1: name was Charles Jofflin or j Offen. He survived paddling
Speaker 1: around for two hours, two hours, and then he finally
Speaker 1: found a capsized lifeboat and clung to that climbed aboard that,
Speaker 1: and some people did survive like that. But but um,
Speaker 1: but he he was in the water for a couple
Speaker 1: of hours, and weirdly they attributed to him getting drunk
Speaker 1: before he went in the water. But this was apparently
Speaker 1: after he had helped save a bunch of people. The
Speaker 1: first thing he did is he went and stocked as
Speaker 1: many lifeboats as he could with bread, and provisions. Um.
Speaker 1: Then he started actually physically throwing women who refused to
Speaker 1: get into lifeboats into the lifeboats. And then after there
Speaker 1: was no one left to help, he went and started drinking.
Speaker 1: For some reason, they think that that kept him alive,
Speaker 1: where otherwise he might not have just maybe by freaking out,
Speaker 1: like it kept him from freaking out. Yeah, well warmed
Speaker 1: him up to maybe. I don't know, No, I think
Speaker 1: it's supposed to do the opposite of that opposite. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: don't take that advice, don't drink choke. There's another story
Speaker 1: I saw talking about the sound of the um, like
Speaker 1: the people who were crying out. Um. There was a
Speaker 1: young survivor, I think he was like nine or ten
Speaker 1: or twelve, um. And he later on they moved, his
Speaker 1: family was moving to America, and he found out the
Speaker 1: hard way that he couldn't go to baseball games because
Speaker 1: the sound of the cheering crowd took him right back
Speaker 1: to the sounds of the people crying for help the Titanic.
Speaker 1: And he just wanted to love baseball but absolutely couldn't
Speaker 1: because because of that. Basically, he had PTSD. Basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's very sad, But let's take our last break here
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about what happened after to am, after
Speaker 1: the Titanic made its way to the bottom of the ocean.
Speaker 1: All right, so the Titanic is underwater at this point.
Speaker 1: It is chaos and death and despair everywhere you can see.
Speaker 1: The Carpathia finally arrives at about four thirty am on
Speaker 1: April and you know, these lifeboats were adrift. They had
Speaker 1: no compasses, no lights, they were freezing. Uh, they were
Speaker 1: I think the Carpathia recovered fourteen boats and seven and
Speaker 1: twelve people, which is remarkable. One of those people, only
Speaker 1: one of those I think died on routes in New York.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, the world starts getting word that
Speaker 1: the Mighty Titanic has sunk, and it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: front page news all over the world. Basically. Yeah, when
Speaker 1: the our Pathea finally made port in New York, it
Speaker 1: was surrounded by um smaller boats that have been rented
Speaker 1: by the press who were trying to get scoops by
Speaker 1: shouting up to people aboard asking for quotes and and
Speaker 1: all that. Like, there was a gobs of money thrown
Speaker 1: at people by journalists to try to get their story
Speaker 1: because there. This is as international news as as news gets. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So apparently the Californian looked for bodies and did not
Speaker 1: find any may not have accounted for the drift, and
Speaker 1: you know, may have been looking sort of in the
Speaker 1: wrong place. And White Star said, as you would say,
Speaker 1: nuts to that, let's send out a bunch of search
Speaker 1: vessels to see what we can do. And I think
Speaker 1: they knew at that point they were not going to
Speaker 1: find anyone alive, but they were at least trying to
Speaker 1: recover bodies. And they sent out a few boats and
Speaker 1: one of them found three hundred and six bodies, one
Speaker 1: found fifteen and one, and then another couple found four
Speaker 1: people in one person uh. And again all these people
Speaker 1: died in the most tragic way you could imagine. They
Speaker 1: were water logged, They were so heavy that it took
Speaker 1: several people to lift them aboard. The first class passengers
Speaker 1: were put in coffins. They were embalmed. Um, this is
Speaker 1: really gruesome, but sometimes they had to break their frozen
Speaker 1: limbs just to fit them inside. It was um. It
Speaker 1: was sort of no time for the formalities of burial.
Speaker 1: It seems like it was a mass casualty scene and
Speaker 1: so they were just kind of doing what they could.
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, some of the crew was actually buried
Speaker 1: at sea, which I I would be like, I don't
Speaker 1: bury me at see. That sounds like the opposite of
Speaker 1: okay to me, right, I've never been okay with burial.
Speaker 1: Let's see. Okay, you're telling me that. I'm just going
Speaker 1: on the record in case we ever go on a
Speaker 1: cruise together. Yeah, all right. So the US kind of
Speaker 1: like really insinuated it's self into this tragedy, umque to
Speaker 1: a questionable degree in some people's minds at the time.
Speaker 1: You know, the Titanic was a British ship, the White
Speaker 1: star Line was a British company, um. And yet the
Speaker 1: US held public inquiries. The Senate did um on the
Speaker 1: Titanic tragedy before the Brits could even do it, because
Speaker 1: they they started this inquiry I think one or two
Speaker 1: days after the Carpathia made port. That's how quick these
Speaker 1: the The inquiry was launched by the U. S Senate UM.
Speaker 1: And so all of these people who were subpoenaed as
Speaker 1: witnesses before they could leave New York, um had to
Speaker 1: stay and give their testimony before they could go back
Speaker 1: to England. So the British had to wait to hold
Speaker 1: their public inquiry until the American one was over, which
Speaker 1: I think kind of chafed everybody a little bit. But
Speaker 1: between the British inquiry and the American inquiry, they both
Speaker 1: basically reached the same conclusions, and they were threefold lifeboats,
Speaker 1: lifeboats and lifeboats. Yeah, and and not just the amount
Speaker 1: like kind of the stuff we've already been over. Like
Speaker 1: there was no system, it seems like, and this is
Speaker 1: all because it's true. It seemed like no one knew
Speaker 1: how to load these things. It seemed like there was
Speaker 1: a lot of indecision about where you actually do the loading.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of opinions flying about about who
Speaker 1: should be loaded, about how many crew members you need
Speaker 1: on these lifeboats, and there was just there was no
Speaker 1: direction at all. There was no uniformity and there was
Speaker 1: no plan. And that's like we mentioned at the beginning,
Speaker 1: because so many of these crew members just kind of
Speaker 1: showed up at the last minute and they didn't even
Speaker 1: have training and how to do this. Yeah. And like
Speaker 1: we said, the Californian was vilified. Um. That was another thing. Um.
Speaker 1: But the they it was you know, even at the
Speaker 1: time it was explained by the California's captain, like, look,
Speaker 1: the wireless operator went to bed. He didn't hear these
Speaker 1: distress signals. Yes, they were shooting off rockets, but we
Speaker 1: thought it was another boat that was mainly doing it
Speaker 1: to navigate through the ice. Like it didn't seem like
Speaker 1: a distressed thing to us. Um. And again history has
Speaker 1: kind of exonerated him, but at the time he was
Speaker 1: not very well thought of. Neither was J. Bruce is May,
Speaker 1: who survived because he got in a lifeboat. He was
Speaker 1: vilified as a coward who didn't go down with his
Speaker 1: own ship. Um. He was painted as um having dressed
Speaker 1: up as a woman to get a board, like just
Speaker 1: basically anything you can think of that's despicable. He was
Speaker 1: described as having done to get a board of lifeboat
Speaker 1: to save his own skin. Um. The only way that
Speaker 1: he could have had any honor dignity is if he
Speaker 1: had like willingly died with the ship. He didn't do that,
Speaker 1: And supposedly in retrospect he was probably unfairly characterized. Uh.
Speaker 1: He went to his grave saying that he Um there
Speaker 1: was no women or children anywhere near where he was, Like,
Speaker 1: they were not around, and he decided to get into
Speaker 1: a lifeboat that had space. Um, but even still, like
Speaker 1: he's just considered this despicable figure because of this kind
Speaker 1: of historical trend that was initiated during the public inquiries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course Andrews the designer, uh and Captain Smith,
Speaker 1: you know, as in the movie you see them both
Speaker 1: go down with the ship. And that another very impactful
Speaker 1: emotional scene with Victor Garber. I think doesn't need like
Speaker 1: set the time correctly on a clock or something like.
Speaker 1: I know, I think he went and rearranged the deck furniture,
Speaker 1: the wicker chairs. No he didn't. I think he said
Speaker 1: the clock. Right, He's just such a cliche, he said,
Speaker 1: he said the clock chair. And and you know this
Speaker 1: is as things are sliding off tables. And uh, it's
Speaker 1: a good movie now that I'm talking about it, I
Speaker 1: kind of want to watch it again, all right. Um.
Speaker 1: There were other people that were hailed as heroes. The
Speaker 1: Captain of the Carpathia was knighted by King George five
Speaker 1: for his actions and saving people. The um Marconi operators
Speaker 1: and the just the Marconi operating or wireless system in
Speaker 1: general was viewed as heroes because had it not been
Speaker 1: for those instant distress signals that were sent over Marconi wireless. Um,
Speaker 1: who knows how long those those people would have been
Speaker 1: out there in lifeboats and how many more would have died. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people could be saved, could have been saved.
Speaker 1: I think the number I've seen most widely used as
Speaker 1: five hundred. Had the lifeboats been properly filled with passengers,
Speaker 1: another five hundred people would have survived. Um. But you
Speaker 1: also have to say, well, how many people would have
Speaker 1: died had the Marconi wireless not been in operation at
Speaker 1: the time too, So Marconi himself is actually hailed as
Speaker 1: a hero for having, you know, come up with this
Speaker 1: this wireless even though I don't think he invented the technology.
Speaker 1: Binocular locker, maybe it doesn't need a lock, Yeah, Davy
Speaker 1: Player was like, oh god, I've got the key in
Speaker 1: my pocket, right, maybe just put it in a in
Speaker 1: the basket right there in the crow's nest, or just
Speaker 1: taking in your cheek, you know, locks, you don't need
Speaker 1: a lock. Okay, Are they afraid they're gonna people are
Speaker 1: gonna walk off with the binoculars? Right? They well they did.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of um, a lot of reforms
Speaker 1: that came out of this. They they started um launching
Speaker 1: ice patrols. Uh, wireless operators started appearing on ships far
Speaker 1: more prevalently, and they were there were operators sitting there
Speaker 1: around the clock to help with distress signals. But I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, and these probably saved thousands and thousands of lives.
Speaker 1: But because these things hadn't existed at the time or
Speaker 1: were ignored, like the lifeboat regulations, then uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people died brutal um So Chuck. The
Speaker 1: Titanic wasn't it went down and was not discovered until
Speaker 1: five I believe, right, Yeah, I mean that's when things
Speaker 1: get really interesting. Uh. I think anyone who had any
Speaker 1: even passing interest in the Titanic is marveled for years.
Speaker 1: Like we were talking about an episode one about these
Speaker 1: images and especially you know, the way these things are
Speaker 1: lit with these little sort of you know, these little
Speaker 1: swimming robots and their flashlights in the dark down there.
Speaker 1: It adds this eerequality to it with the suspended debris,
Speaker 1: and how easily this thing, you know, would would kind
Speaker 1: of come apart if it was knocked against or something.
Speaker 1: Just really stunning, stunning footage and that's I think what
Speaker 1: like drove James Cameron, he got really into it. Oh yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: The guy who discovered the Titanic was Dr Robert Ballard
Speaker 1: Um and he I saw a talk by him where
Speaker 1: he was talking about one of those early ones where
Speaker 1: they were using one of their UM remote vehicles with
Speaker 1: equipped with like a spotlight on it, and he said
Speaker 1: in from the inside, the gloom of the Titanic looked
Speaker 1: like a light came on, he said, He and the
Speaker 1: rest of his crew on the vessel aboard or uh
Speaker 1: on on the surface just like stopped breathing, Like there
Speaker 1: was the eerious thing you'd ever seen. And he realized
Speaker 1: that the searchlight had just was reflecting off of one
Speaker 1: of Titanic chandeliers that was still hanging there. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine what that sensation would have been like just terror,
Speaker 1: but also just total awe. You know. So the Titanic
Speaker 1: is falling apart thanks to a kind of iron loving
Speaker 1: bacteria I believe called hal amonas Titanic A. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's right, right, surely that's on purpose. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they I think they discovered it from evaluating the Titanic, right, Okay. Um,
Speaker 1: And so they're there there. They basically don't think it's
Speaker 1: going to be around much longer. But Dr Ballard just saying, no, no,
Speaker 1: we can, we can do something with this. There's actually
Speaker 1: underwater technology that uses epoxy paint where you can paint underwater.
Speaker 1: And he has a proposal to save the Titanic by
Speaker 1: painting it and turning it into an underwater museum. Because
Speaker 1: outside um outside in the debris field like um, bodies
Speaker 1: were you know, dissolved and eaten within a very short
Speaker 1: amount of time. But there's still plenty of objects that
Speaker 1: are still there. Inside the Titanic. There's no currents, and
Speaker 1: a lot of areas inside the Titanic might be anaerobic,
Speaker 1: so it's quite possible that there are bodies generally preserved
Speaker 1: in there, and that a lot of this like rooms
Speaker 1: and um uh, different areas in the bowels of the
Speaker 1: Titanic are still in relatively good shape. So he's saying
Speaker 1: all like, it's imperative that we keep the Titanic from
Speaker 1: rupturing and opening up and exposing its innards to the
Speaker 1: currents and the oxygen in the ocean um, and we
Speaker 1: can do that by painting it. The outside of it,
Speaker 1: So I'm really hoping that he uh, he's successful in
Speaker 1: that quest. Very cool. Yeah, you got anything else? I
Speaker 1: got nothing else. I got one more thing. We could
Speaker 1: not talk about the Titanic without talking about futility. The
Speaker 1: book that was written by a guy named Morgan Robertson,
Speaker 1: and it's about the biggest ship ever built, the titan
Speaker 1: Uh that is um headed from Liverpool to or New
Speaker 1: York to Liverpool when it encounters an iceberg in the
Speaker 1: North Atlantic and sinks. And like the description of the type,
Speaker 1: the titan almost matches of Titanic even though it was
Speaker 1: built fourteen or it was written fourteen years before. Very cool.
Speaker 1: We cover that on something else at some point. Didn't
Speaker 1: we do an episode on coincidence once? I don't know,
Speaker 1: because if so, I'll bet that was it. Well, if
Speaker 1: you want to know more about the Titanic, have a
Speaker 1: good rest of your life, because there's a lot to learn.
Speaker 1: So go forth, find your favorite Titanic based podcasts or
Speaker 1: website and start there. And since I said start there,
Speaker 1: it's time for finally listener mail. You know, instead of
Speaker 1: listener mail, let's do the old call for reviews that
Speaker 1: we do once every five years, all right, let's do it. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't have a listener mail ready, so you know,
Speaker 1: occasionally we like to ask people for reviews and ratings
Speaker 1: on iTunes because we were told ten years ago that
Speaker 1: that helped. Yeah, I mean I think it still does. Um.
Speaker 1: So if you want to go onto Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: whether you're on Spotify, wherever you are, there's probably a
Speaker 1: way to leave a review. And if you can leave
Speaker 1: us a nice review in a rating like yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that definitely at the very least, it boosts our spirits, right,
Speaker 1: that's right. And also tell a friend. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: we don't try to grow the show very much, which
Speaker 1: is weird. We've never been great at it yet somehow
Speaker 1: it happened. But we've always counted on you guys to
Speaker 1: spread the words. So if you could tell a friend
Speaker 1: or family member about us, that would be wonderful. Yes, So,
Speaker 1: I guess thanks to all of you leaving us reviews
Speaker 1: and ratings, preferably good ones. Um, and even if you don't,
Speaker 1: thanks a lot for listening. We appreciate you all, each
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