Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Nol.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined with our super producer,
Speaker 3: Paul Mission Control Decant. Most importantly, you are you. You
Speaker 3: are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want
Speaker 3: you to know, coming to you directly from Earth. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was a good way to open it, right. Still, Yeah,
Speaker 3: just get in front of that. We get that question
Speaker 3: pretty often.
Speaker 4: Earth realm, guys. I'm sorry.
Speaker 5: I've been playing the New Mortal Kombat a lot lately,
Speaker 5: so I exclusively refer to this planet as Earth realm
Speaker 5: ight love it.
Speaker 3: In Neil Stephenson's Anathema, which is anathem which is a fantastic,
Speaker 3: by the way, examination of multi dimensional stuff that I
Speaker 3: don't want to spoil. But in that one, uh, there
Speaker 3: are different versions of Earth and they all have a
Speaker 3: name derived from if dominant civilizations went a different way.
Speaker 3: So there's like laterire where sort of France became like
Speaker 3: the United Kingdom. Basically anyway.
Speaker 4: Nice soon?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3: Techechnic is coming out too, Tech and eight is coming out.
Speaker 4: That's fine, and I've never been a tech inhead.
Speaker 5: But the New Mortal Kombat is like a reboot kind
Speaker 5: of almost like Marvel Cinematic Universe style, where it's like
Speaker 5: a multiversal version of the whole Mortal Kombat lore, which
Speaker 5: has never been like that deep. But they really do
Speaker 5: a good job with it. And man, some of the
Speaker 5: cinematics in it. You look at it and you think
Speaker 5: you're watching a movie. I mean, they've really got that's
Speaker 5: kind of bonkers.
Speaker 3: They're good with the cut scenes, but I am a
Speaker 3: tech tech them forever.
Speaker 2: Bring me Kuma any day?
Speaker 5: Is that you play as a giant panda?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's a bear.
Speaker 2: It's a bear, different.
Speaker 5: Skins, and there's also a isn't there a boxing kangaroo
Speaker 5: named Roger?
Speaker 4: Did I make that up?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Roger comes and goes. It depends on the iteration
Speaker 3: iteration kind of. But it does not have any good aliens.
Speaker 3: They're not good aliens in Teken and it's also a
Speaker 3: problem in astronomy, at least for the casual fans, because
Speaker 3: there are no good aliens in astronomy, they're actually zero
Speaker 3: proven aliens. I know, but it's it's a pickle. We
Speaker 3: talked about the Fermi paradox in the past. It is
Speaker 3: mathematically certain that life has to exist somewhere out in
Speaker 3: the ink, but those same numbers that make life statistically
Speaker 3: inevitable make it highly improbable, almost certain, that human life
Speaker 3: and these other life forms will not interact directly. Right,
Speaker 3: that's the great bummer.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, m it's just so far away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so much time too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, he's kind of so poudy just then
Speaker 4: that it is. It really is a bit of a bummer.
Speaker 2: I mean, just the fact that we can see so
Speaker 2: far back in time and through space, but there's just
Speaker 2: no way to do anything about it. Or we've come
Speaker 2: up with some really interesting ways and we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about sometimes to potentially do something about it. But again,
Speaker 2: it's the time. The time is the problem. You're right, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Haven't thought about the time? Yeah, like the time like
Speaker 3: flip it, flip it around. You know, there's a say,
Speaker 3: there is another sapien sentient civilization way out there in
Speaker 3: the dark, and they are seeing light or they are
Speaker 3: able to observe Earth. They're going to see dinosaurs and stuff.
Speaker 3: They have no idea that we made Velcrow and Tang
Speaker 3: and case ideas they have. They're so behind on Earth
Speaker 3: life the.
Speaker 4: Great Wonders of the World. You just mentioned him there
Speaker 4: in one go There.
Speaker 2: I go, that'd be pretty amazing if saw some life
Speaker 2: saw Plesiosaurus walking around and they got here and they found.
Speaker 4: Case of dias.
Speaker 5: I think I've mentioned this before, but it always reminds
Speaker 5: me of this really wonderful episode of Pete and the
Speaker 5: Adventures of Pete and Pete called Johnny Unitas and the Universe,
Speaker 5: where there's this character who's like becomes friends with Pete
Speaker 5: and he's a little off. He's kind of nerdy and
Speaker 5: a spoiler alert I guess for a twenty year old show.
Speaker 5: But it turns out he's an alien and he experienced
Speaker 5: Earth through these transmissions of TV signals. But there was
Speaker 5: such a delay that he saw this, Like Johnny Unitas
Speaker 5: is like a famous like football star, he saw his
Speaker 5: big game as it was happening for him, but it
Speaker 5: was actually like, you know, decades later for when it
Speaker 5: actually happened on Earth. Really really interesting episode, very thoughtful
Speaker 5: and sweet.
Speaker 3: We see that time dilation idea in a lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of fiction because it's something people have always
Speaker 3: thought about. Just the harrowing, astonishing math of what we
Speaker 3: call the universe, which is the observable universe for earth lets.
Speaker 3: In tonight's episode, we're returning to something we talked about
Speaker 3: in Strange News a while back. Did a Harvard astrophysicist,
Speaker 3: Avi Lobe find proof of alien life? Here are the facts? Okay,
Speaker 3: first off, not a wing nut. We have to say
Speaker 3: that this is a really, really smart guy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 5: Think any relation to the Lisa Lobe of Nine Stories
Speaker 5: and Stay fame. But Professor Lobe is a storied scholar.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not a member of nine Stories.
Speaker 5: With tons of accolades under his belt across the course
Speaker 5: of a decade's spanning career. Born on February twenty sixth
Speaker 5: of nineteen sixty two, he possesses a bachelor and a
Speaker 5: master's and a PhD.
Speaker 4: What a show off, all from.
Speaker 5: Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and currently he is the Frank B.
Speaker 5: Baird Junior Professor of Science at Harvard University. That sounds
Speaker 5: like some accolades that are pretty legit. Some bonafides if
Speaker 5: you will.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if any of that sounds familiar, Ben, you
Speaker 2: brought this up, I think on Strange News back in
Speaker 2: September last year. That's all I was like, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: this is all coming back. So Arvy Lobe is a
Speaker 2: fascinating person. Before we like, we cannot understate this. This
Speaker 2: is a learned scientist who is interested in the things
Speaker 2: that you're probably interested in, what's going on out there,
Speaker 2: and he is working towards it. So when we get
Speaker 2: into some of the claims and some of the things
Speaker 2: he's pursuing, this is a scientist that knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also, to be fair, we're gonna have to
Speaker 3: correct or clarify some I would say not quite mis reporting,
Speaker 3: but maybe misframing of what he is doing, because in
Speaker 3: headlines so often we hear stuff like Harvard scientists aliens
Speaker 3: and those are the only three words you walked away
Speaker 3: with from the headline, and that's doing a disservice to
Speaker 3: some really important pioneering in quite difficult science.
Speaker 5: But it also reminds me of kind of what's going
Speaker 5: on with some of these disclosure stories, and it's a
Speaker 5: bit heartening where you start to hear reports from folks
Speaker 5: who you know have skin in the game, you know
Speaker 5: who are politicians or former politicians and or government officials
Speaker 5: who are coming out and saying there's some sand to
Speaker 5: this stuff. So when you add in folks like Lobe,
Speaker 5: it really makes you start to think, you know, maybe
Speaker 5: there is something to all this alien talk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's also he by all accounts, is a
Speaker 3: really chill hang a really nice guy. And he's got
Speaker 3: that gift that some of our favorite scientists exhibit, which
Speaker 3: is being able to explain tremendously complex things in approachable,
Speaker 3: understandable ways. That's how you know someone genuinely understands what
Speaker 3: they're talking about.
Speaker 4: Science communicator.
Speaker 2: There's one article that I think we all read for
Speaker 2: this where he puts on like a one man show
Speaker 2: in his attic or something for a reporter who shows
Speaker 2: up to like describe and to again to help communicate
Speaker 2: what's going on in his life. It's cool.
Speaker 3: He also he also will I mean, because again he's
Speaker 3: been doing this for quite some time. You can see
Speaker 3: any number of interviews with him. People just show up
Speaker 3: at his house and he's like, hey, sit down and
Speaker 3: they have a conversation and they get to the actual questions,
Speaker 3: but there's also a lot of like hanging out discursive
Speaker 3: conversation when it's like, you know, Steven Hawking sat right
Speaker 3: where you're sitting, and you know, my wife cooked and dinner. Man,
Speaker 3: I just want you to know he ate everything, and
Speaker 3: the guy's like, cool, okay, thanks, doc.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 5: But that's just a sign of someone who's genuinely passionate
Speaker 5: about their field, not just in this isolated academic bubble
Speaker 5: that we often you see.
Speaker 4: This is somebody wants to spread.
Speaker 5: The word beyond those kind of niche corners of Harvard
Speaker 5: and academia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's written quite a robust body of scientific literature.
Speaker 3: He has made notable contributions to multiple fields of physics
Speaker 3: and astronomy. He's written or co written around eight hundred
Speaker 3: different papers. He's published textbooks, popular science books, the stuff
Speaker 3: that's meant to be accessible to the public. And then
Speaker 3: with those popular science or you know, kind of lay
Speaker 3: person named books, we start to see indications of his interest.
Speaker 3: Books like Extraterrestrial The First Side of Intelligent Life Beyond
Speaker 3: Earth twenty twenty one, or Interstellar not the movie Interstellar,
Speaker 3: the Search for Extraterrestrial Life and Our Future in the Stars,
Speaker 3: published just last year. In twenty twenty three, he co
Speaker 3: founded the Galileo project. All they do is try to
Speaker 3: find evidence of interstellar objects or some sort of extraterrestrial intelligence. So,
Speaker 3: I mean, we could spend hours talking about this exoplanets,
Speaker 3: gravitational lensing which I did not know about, thank you,
Speaker 3: doctor Lowe, gamma ray burst etched.
Speaker 2: And let's talk about just really quickly, this starshot mission.
Speaker 2: This is something that is so interesting to me, and
Speaker 2: I think maybe one of the biggest takeaways is something
Speaker 2: that's stated in an article written for Scientific American by
Speaker 2: and Fink Biner. So the concept is to create these tiny, little,
Speaker 2: almost weightless things that would be a solar sale attached
Speaker 2: to a microchip, like the microchip that you'd find in
Speaker 2: your cell phone, and you literally shoot a laser at
Speaker 2: this thing once it's in orbit, and it ends up
Speaker 2: accelerating to about twenty percent the speed of light and
Speaker 2: can get out to like Alpha Centauri in like four
Speaker 2: to five years. And it but it's just the whole
Speaker 2: idea is that it would like take it would fly
Speaker 2: past another star system and take some pictures and then
Speaker 2: take like five years to send it back to Earth.
Speaker 2: But just that concept.
Speaker 3: Auvi was on the.
Speaker 2: Team that was developing this project and that kind of
Speaker 2: thing is so amazing. But the only reason it was
Speaker 2: even possible as a concept is because this billionaire, Yuri
Speaker 2: Milner had he was a billionaire and he was like, well,
Speaker 2: let's try something crazy. Here's one hundred million dollars. Let's
Speaker 2: put a team together and find out if we can
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 4: Quick.
Speaker 5: Quick reminder, solar sales that is existing technology, right, that's
Speaker 5: not just conceptual or is it?
Speaker 4: I think it is kind of conceptual.
Speaker 2: Still, everything in the project when it was created was conceptual,
Speaker 2: like a possibility.
Speaker 5: Solar sale is a material or a technology that essentially
Speaker 5: harnesses solar radiation to propel something using this material.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it has been. It's one of those like
Speaker 3: science fiction becoming fact things because it has been i
Speaker 3: think used first in like twenty ten. So it's still
Speaker 3: got that new car smell, but it is. It is
Speaker 3: cool stuff and unfortunately, Yeah, another big part of doing
Speaker 3: you know, the Big Kid science is the constant quest
Speaker 3: for funding.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, one of the main points in that article
Speaker 2: is that NASA has to go slow, has to get funding.
Speaker 2: Is you know it could lose funding for a major
Speaker 2: project at any moment, but when you're a billionaire, you
Speaker 2: literally just throw a bunch of money on the table
Speaker 2: and you say.
Speaker 4: Let's do this.
Speaker 3: Let's get weird with it. Private industry is huge in
Speaker 3: space exploration and astronomy. I want to shout out an astrobiologist,
Speaker 3: Karen J. Meach, who has a fantastic ted talk about
Speaker 3: something that really brought Professor Loeb's name to the public sphere.
Speaker 3: This for this story, let's start around December of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: The entire world of astronomy, Uh huh is a buzz
Speaker 3: because they've tracked something unusual. Oh woah moah is what
Speaker 3: they ended up calling it. And boffins like Professor Karen
Speaker 3: Meach were over I don't want to say over the moon,
Speaker 3: but they were fascinated with it because it was so
Speaker 3: it was so weird. Its first name was super Unsexy.
Speaker 3: Was like one I slash twenty seventeen. You won, because
Speaker 3: that's how they name all this stuff in the sky.
Speaker 3: And what they found is that first off, they caught
Speaker 3: it late. It was first observed. It was about twenty
Speaker 3: one million miles from Earth. I was already heading away
Speaker 3: from the Sun. So it's like you walk outside of
Speaker 3: a gas station and you see a car driving away
Speaker 3: from the parking lot getting back on the interstate. That's
Speaker 3: exactly what it was like.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: But the scary part is human beings at large did
Speaker 3: not know about this like half mile long, very unusual
Speaker 3: ovuler or cylindrical object until after it had reached its
Speaker 3: closest point to Earth about fifteen million miles away, super
Speaker 3: close and astronomical terms.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and because the thing kind of like those
Speaker 2: little solar microtips we were talking about the planet like
Speaker 2: send them so fast, this thing was traveling over like
Speaker 2: somewhere between fifty nine thousand miles per hour and eighty
Speaker 2: something thousand miles per hour. So you literally, I mean
Speaker 2: imagine just like it's just flying across and it was
Speaker 2: an interstellar object. Right, it's been confirmed that that thing
Speaker 2: originated outside of our star system and just kind of did.
Speaker 3: A fly by, and no one knows how it started going.
Speaker 3: No one knows. You know, it's very it's like a
Speaker 3: cotton eye jove space. Right, we don't know where it's
Speaker 3: gonna end up, don't you invoke.
Speaker 4: That resen So it's the rest of the day, Dade,
Speaker 4: it's in there forever. I'm gonna give it to the
Speaker 4: other bil I had to man forgot nothing.
Speaker 2: That's this is another thing about I forget.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it's called, right. Yeah. Is that a
Speaker 4: Hawaiian where it feels like yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It actually stands for oh what is it?
Speaker 2: It's like the first one that arrives a traveler from Afar,
Speaker 2: the first to arrive or something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then something about history I want to say,
Speaker 3: But yes, the name means there's a there's a pretty
Speaker 3: cool story about from Afar, right, Yeah, first that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: mess here from before or scout right. But the idea is,
Speaker 3: or the story behind the name is I think, pretty
Speaker 3: cool and inspiring and a heck of a lot better
Speaker 3: than one I twenty seventeen. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny that we have a podcast on
Speaker 5: the network called Aftershock. It's like a scripted like fiction
Speaker 5: podcast about uh, sort of an island that's that shoots
Speaker 5: up in the middle of the Pacific, out of nowhere,
Speaker 5: and there's a lot of Hawaiian culture that's that's referenced
Speaker 5: in it, and there is a character who kind of
Speaker 5: comes to the island, and the native islanders or the
Speaker 5: people that have come from nearby refer to them as
Speaker 5: omum wu. I believe because it means like a traveler,
Speaker 5: you know, guy, like a scout, like you said.
Speaker 3: I think the like the doubling there is for emphasis. Anyway,
Speaker 3: it's a great story. Please read it when you get
Speaker 3: a chance. It's the kind of inspiring science stuff we love.
Speaker 3: And why is everybody interested in this thing? Again, you
Speaker 3: can find some great, easily accessible explanations of why and
Speaker 3: like why it is considered unusual in terms of its shape,
Speaker 3: its rotation, its speed, and its direction. And then you
Speaker 3: can also see really compelling arguments about how humanity figured
Speaker 3: out this is an interstellar object. Why is Lobe interested
Speaker 3: in this? He also notes that it's super weird, and
Speaker 3: again he knows what he's talking about, but he is
Speaker 3: one of the most credible people to publicly say we
Speaker 3: should also just check and see if like someone made
Speaker 3: and it got sent here or like is it is
Speaker 3: it like a flying bumper essentially from a car wreck.
Speaker 4: Yeah, some sort of a space jetsum, you.
Speaker 2: Know, But think about this. He is working on a
Speaker 2: project to send these weird little solar sale microchips to
Speaker 2: other star systems right when Omuma shows up. So he
Speaker 2: is working on a project that would do this very thing.
Speaker 2: We wouldn't send large, potentially rocky cigar shaped things that
Speaker 2: spin around on their access every seven and a half
Speaker 2: hours or whatever. But he is thinking about doing a
Speaker 2: very similar thing right to send another star system. So
Speaker 2: he's like, well, wait, maybe somebody already did that for us.
Speaker 2: What if this is just some kind of a sensor
Speaker 2: system meant to fly past?
Speaker 3: And there's there's a logic to it that I love.
Speaker 3: There's also a really cool stripe of humility there, the
Speaker 3: idea that hey, if I have a good idea, then
Speaker 3: somebody else probably was thinking along those same lines, you know,
Speaker 3: separated by chasms space and time. But so he does
Speaker 3: like he gets unfairly. I would think he gets people
Speaker 3: saying like look at this nutso guy when he's asking
Speaker 3: instead quite reasonable questions like you said, Matt, he's there's
Speaker 3: something familiar about this idea. And one of his other
Speaker 3: reasonable questions he's not the only one asking, is hey,
Speaker 3: let's see if it emits radio signals. That's an easy
Speaker 3: thing to check, you know what I mean, it didn't
Speaker 3: so far as they know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and we have to remember, everything we know
Speaker 2: about this object is observed from we are observing it
Speaker 2: from so far away. We only know or believe, let's say,
Speaker 2: infer and now believe that it's cigar shaped and spinning
Speaker 2: on its axis because it well, yeah, because of the
Speaker 2: way light it reflects light in a pattern right over
Speaker 2: like seven and a half hours. So we imagine, or
Speaker 2: we believe, we infer humanity scientists, that it is spinning
Speaker 2: because of the way it's reflecting the light from the
Speaker 2: sun as it's moving past us. But it's a tiny
Speaker 2: little blip on a screen when you're observing it. We
Speaker 2: don't actually have a picture of this thing. But if
Speaker 2: you go to NASA, they've got like this three D
Speaker 2: model that makes you think, oh, they know every ridge
Speaker 2: on this thing. They know exactly what it looks like
Speaker 2: and how it's shaped and all this stuff. But no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no, we have some really.
Speaker 3: Modeling assumptions right based on material science, on chemistry, and
Speaker 3: on the sensor analysis that is capable off a very
Speaker 3: very minimum amount of information. Instead, like for anybody who
Speaker 3: would cast aspersion on the good folks at NASA, Like
Speaker 3: imagine getting as far as they have with such a
Speaker 3: small amount of knowledge Like that, to me is one
Speaker 3: of the cool things about humans. And Lope knows all
Speaker 3: about this. This is, by the way, Umoham is not
Speaker 3: the main.
Speaker 2: Focus of this story.
Speaker 3: It's a big part of the story because later Professor
Speaker 3: Lowe made some other claims doubling down on the interrogation
Speaker 3: the possibility of extraterrestrial life. In twenty nineteen, he and
Speaker 3: one of his students, Amir Saraj discovered something like a
Speaker 3: kissing cousin to Amua Moah, another object that they believed
Speaker 3: to be interstellar that crashed into Earth in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 3: leaving a bunch of strange, strange stuff in its wake.
Speaker 3: Right now, it's known as c in EOS twenty fourteen
Speaker 3: zero one zero eight or Interstellar medior one what not.
Speaker 5: Nearly as sexy as a but you know, I get,
Speaker 5: I get that it's a descriptive and it might not
Speaker 5: just be space rocks.
Speaker 3: Lobe is arguing it might be genuine proof of extraterrestrial life.
Speaker 3: We're gonna pause for word from our sponsor. Here's where
Speaker 3: it gets crazy, all right, So like if he is tenured, right,
Speaker 3: and if you're tenured, you kind of have a safety
Speaker 3: a safety net in your career.
Speaker 5: Your credibility is, you know, is your currency in that field.
Speaker 5: And nobody's gonna go out on a limb about something
Speaker 5: as controversial or fringy seeming as extraterrestrial life or proof thereof.
Speaker 5: So if he's gonna do that, he's probably gonna have
Speaker 5: something to back it up, or at least a really
Speaker 5: strong belief and belief that there is proof out there
Speaker 5: to back it up.
Speaker 3: I don't know if Okay, I don't know if this
Speaker 3: is a really good term, but I fell in love
Speaker 3: with this term, and I don't think it's a legit
Speaker 3: scientific term. But he starts conducting what we could call
Speaker 3: forensic astronomy.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 3: That sounds like a cool job, right, I think, So
Speaker 3: put that on a tender profile.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, like again, we talked about all this
Speaker 5: like space junk and the debris and little detritus kind
Speaker 5: of floating out around there, and you know, if you
Speaker 5: analyze it, or if you have the wherewithal and the
Speaker 5: technology to do so, it can lead to clues sort
Speaker 5: of like ice cores. You know, various things that points
Speaker 5: to historical goings on, you know out there in the ink,
Speaker 5: Like you.
Speaker 3: Say, Ben, out there in the ink, Yeah, I mean okay,
Speaker 3: So cast your memories back, folks. Eight January twenty fourteen,
Speaker 3: a fireball crashes from the sky. Biblical level stuff, you know.
Speaker 3: Religions get started based on things like this. It happens
Speaker 3: off the coast of Papua New Guinea, and everyone forgets
Speaker 3: about it for five years. It is just recorded, and
Speaker 3: it's sitting there until until these guys start saying, what
Speaker 3: if we look through the records, What if we check
Speaker 3: everything humans know about objects from space and start looking
Speaker 3: for indicators kind of like, what if we profile heavily objects,
Speaker 3: things with unusual speed or direction.
Speaker 2: Well, let's not forget things like that fly through Earth's
Speaker 2: atmosphere all the time and land somewhere, sometimes in the desert,
Speaker 2: sometimes in a house. It's happened before, We've reported on
Speaker 2: that before. Often they are very tiny objects, right, Sometimes
Speaker 2: they're a little bit bigger. Sometimes they kill the dinosaurs that.
Speaker 3: Was one time.
Speaker 4: Give a meta is a bad rap from then on out,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 5: Just because they wreak havoc and annihilate entire civilization that species.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're you're absolutely right too. There's I think
Speaker 3: that's a great point, Matt. There's so much to look at.
Speaker 3: This is not a one afternoon thing for these guys.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and what makes basically what makes this object special?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Because often it's just a meteorite that lands and hits
Speaker 2: the ground and you're like, oh, that's some special rock
Speaker 2: right there, but it doesn't really mean much more than that.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, ding dong question real quick.
Speaker 5: Meteors are bigger meteorites or more diminutive meteors, but still
Speaker 5: quite large.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, like I believe checkm in this. But a meteor
Speaker 3: is the one that hits No meteorite is the one
Speaker 3: that hits earth, right.
Speaker 4: It breaks off usually, right? Is that the deal? Okay?
Speaker 3: So shout out to NASA dot gov for meteors and
Speaker 3: meteorite facts. Love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like, so, I imagine if it's a meteor shower, right,
Speaker 2: you're gonna look up in the sky and see shooting
Speaker 2: stars that are just flying through, maybe impacting the atmosphere,
Speaker 2: but they just continue on their way. Meteorite is the
Speaker 2: one that lands, got it, Okay?
Speaker 3: And meteoroids are rocks.
Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, okay, so what about asteroids? What about metroids,
Speaker 2: me hemorrhoids.
Speaker 3: Wait, what's the name of the protagonist, the metroid Samos? Samos?
Speaker 3: That's right, what a great name.
Speaker 4: I almost said Seamus. That would have been so.
Speaker 3: Lob and Sarage are looking through their files and credit
Speaker 3: where it's due. Saraj has this moment where he's looking
Speaker 3: at this fireball from twenty fourteen and he says, hey,
Speaker 3: this little guy is moving way too fast to be
Speaker 3: gravitationally bound to the Sun, which other things in the
Speaker 3: Solar system are. So where did it come from? What
Speaker 3: does that indicate about its origin? They say, Okay, we
Speaker 3: got to go figure out, like we have to get
Speaker 3: boots on the ground, right, this is where the cool
Speaker 3: metal detector story comes in. And then, like so much
Speaker 3: other science, they said, who, we're going to need some
Speaker 3: cash because it's a it's kind of out of the
Speaker 3: way to get to Papua New Guinea.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, then there's much research to be done and diving.
Speaker 3: And diving is crazy expensive maritime maritime sensors and research
Speaker 3: of that nature gets very expensive very quickly. As Paul
Speaker 3: and I can attest from Missing in Alaska. It's a
Speaker 3: fantastic show. Season three is on the way. Everybody, please
Speaker 3: check it out. You might hear some familiar voices. So
Speaker 3: several years after they start digging into this and they
Speaker 3: see this anomalous thing in the records, they say this like,
Speaker 3: they go public and they say, look, this might be interstellar.
Speaker 3: We're pretty sure it's interstellar. It could also be something
Speaker 3: made rather than something that just happened, and across the planet,
Speaker 3: physicists and scholars trembled. There was a disturbance in the force,
Speaker 3: because that's stuff that that stuff that makes the news
Speaker 3: when a Harvard expert says it, and so he's like, look,
Speaker 3: this could be alien technology. It could be used. He
Speaker 3: it could have used a solar sale.
Speaker 2: It could have been like starshot exactly again why this
Speaker 2: is so fascinating, and also why other scientists in his
Speaker 2: field are like, come on, Abby.
Speaker 3: Snatch right, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, that's that's right. He
Speaker 3: his team, though, they soldier on and in April of
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, a merre rights an article confirming that
Speaker 3: the Department of Defense's Space Command has got up got
Speaker 3: together with NASA because Space Command for a militant society
Speaker 3: like the US tends to have the best space sensors.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a diplomatic way to say it, anyway.
Speaker 3: So they got with those guys, figured out what they could,
Speaker 3: you know, get past security clearances and all this other stuff,
Speaker 3: and they were able to confirm with ninety nine point
Speaker 3: nine percent certainty that this meteor was interstellar.
Speaker 4: WHOA.
Speaker 2: So they confirmed that obvious suspicions might have they let's
Speaker 2: get let's say they have fifty percent more sand to
Speaker 2: them that it could be something made. Even though that
Speaker 2: is an extraordinary claim, right, we do know that it
Speaker 2: came from somewhere else. So in May of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: that expedition that we were hoping was going to happen
Speaker 2: is happening.
Speaker 3: We were not called. But that's fine. No, I just
Speaker 3: really want to get out to that part of the world, man,
Speaker 3: don't you. Even though the capital is very dangerous. Really, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's super dangerous that capital. Yeah, Port Moresbio.
Speaker 2: I think it's called I still want to go. Let's go.
Speaker 3: Let's go. That's what they said. They said for science,
Speaker 3: And for.
Speaker 2: Like a month, they searched and searched and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: I don't know, and guess what in June they found something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so a little bit about the search, all right.
Speaker 3: They have a ship named the Silver Star Nice, and
Speaker 3: they have on this ship they have a sled. It's
Speaker 3: like a metal detector and a sled from a Christmas movie,
Speaker 3: had a kid. The sled is riddled with these molybdenum
Speaker 3: magnets on both sides and they drag it across the
Speaker 3: seafloor and hope they pick stuff up. And this is
Speaker 3: beyond a needle in a haystack situation. The ocean's kind
Speaker 3: of big. They're looking for stuff that's kind of small.
Speaker 3: They owe a lot of thanks to a crypto mogul,
Speaker 3: as he's described Charles Hoskinson, who says, yeah, you can
Speaker 3: use my jet. Here's one point five mil. Heck, yeah,
Speaker 3: that wor nice.
Speaker 2: Mister h looks seriously. Thank you billionaires for wanting to
Speaker 2: do something interesting like this every once in a while.
Speaker 2: This is really good. Good on you billionaires.
Speaker 3: I like that you didn't say specifically thank you for
Speaker 3: doing something good. You said thank you for doing something interesting?
Speaker 2: Yeah, why not if you get the money, let's at
Speaker 2: least make this thing a little bit weirder.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, why not? Right, So when they drag
Speaker 3: this sled across the floor of the ocean, they get
Speaker 3: a lot of junk, black powder, volcanic ash, because volcanoes
Speaker 3: have been a thing for a while, still very popular
Speaker 3: in the Pacific Ocean. And Lobe starts getting by his
Speaker 3: own admission, you can read this in an interview with
Speaker 3: Times of Israel and several other interviews, because he does
Speaker 3: them a lot. By his own emission, he and the
Speaker 3: team were getting kind of frustrated. You know, we came
Speaker 3: all this way, we're looking, we're looking, we're doing the
Speaker 3: best science we can. We're filtering volcanic out and then
Speaker 3: we're going through whatever's left with a microscope. And then
Speaker 3: they find feerls mm hmmm. They find a bunch of
Speaker 3: tiny little balls.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, yeah, these are not substantial in
Speaker 2: any way. These are not pieces of a machine that
Speaker 2: anyone would recognize as pieces of a machine. As you said,
Speaker 2: They are like actually microscopic.
Speaker 3: Right, They're very very small. I mean they range in size,
Speaker 3: but we are talking millimeters and they are composed of
Speaker 3: This is what amazes Avi in the team they're composed
Speaker 3: of iron. Okay, that's fine, that happens. Magnesium, sure, why
Speaker 3: not titanium?
Speaker 4: Right on?
Speaker 2: What you expect to see those, right, we expect in
Speaker 2: the universe all over the place.
Speaker 3: But we have a missing a missing expected house guest
Speaker 3: here a very negligible amount of nickel, which is it's
Speaker 3: a mystery at this point. Nichola is supposed to be there.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. You go to McDonald's, you
Speaker 3: order a happy meal, it doesn't have fries. What's going on?
Speaker 3: I guess they could do apples.
Speaker 4: Comes from.
Speaker 2: In my mind. It's like if you imagine the atmosphere,
Speaker 2: but you find another atmosphere that appears to be breathable
Speaker 2: for humans, and it's got a ton of oxygen and
Speaker 2: a ton of carbon dioxide, but there's no nitrogen for
Speaker 2: some reason.
Speaker 3: Right barely. Any that's a great yeah, that's a great comparison.
Speaker 3: And so Loeb explains this. He says, you know, compared
Speaker 3: to what we know about metal alloys that humans make,
Speaker 3: to compared to what we know about asteroids and the
Speaker 3: familiar astrophysical sources, this stuff is weird. Also, thankfully it's magnetic.
Speaker 3: That's the main way we're able to find it, and
Speaker 3: there are probably a lot more of these things out there,
Speaker 3: and they're probably a lot smaller particles, like we are
Speaker 3: just seeing the big chunks right of whatever this to
Speaker 3: this wreckage was. And so he asked those questions. And
Speaker 3: again people say it's controversial for him to even bring
Speaker 3: these up. He says he and his team, to be clear,
Speaker 3: a lot of people worked on this. They say, is
Speaker 3: it possible that this just occurred naturally and to your point,
Speaker 3: Matt came from a wildly different kind of environment or situation,
Speaker 3: or did someone purposely make this thing? That's a very
Speaker 3: dangerous question in the halls of academia.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so, oh boy, I'm going to ICP territory.
Speaker 2: But how does one become magnetized? If one is a metal?
Speaker 4: You're going to drop some bars from the Great Malenco.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, no, I don't know what that is. But
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering.
Speaker 4: But I'm just wondering.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Sorry, I'm just wondering if it's possible,
Speaker 2: Like if you find a magnetized object or something. Usually
Speaker 2: I would assume, and maybe I'm completely wrong with this,
Speaker 2: I would assume that it became magnetized over time because
Speaker 2: it's it's a metal that's capable of being magnetized, and
Speaker 2: then it's been basically affected by the fields for long
Speaker 2: enough that it then gains those properties. But like ICP,
Speaker 2: I don't know how magnets.
Speaker 3: Work, Okay, I think you have to. I don't know either.
Speaker 3: I know Magneto was right in the comics. That has
Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything. I just want to say
Speaker 3: that Magneto is right. But to become magnetized, a substance
Speaker 3: or material has to have the ability to be magnetic, right,
Speaker 3: like you can't magnetize everything, and it has to enter
Speaker 3: the magnetic field of an existing magnet like Earth.
Speaker 4: Right right.
Speaker 3: So I think that that's the basis of it. They
Speaker 3: talk about it in the paper they publish, which you
Speaker 3: can read for free online, and we'll tell you how
Speaker 3: to find that one at the end. Is that some
Speaker 3: I think we're on base. I think that's roughly right.
Speaker 3: Like man, magnetization is like radicalization you hang out with others.
Speaker 2: Well, I think so, because of it's the electrons get, yes,
Speaker 2: kind of angled in one direction, right when when you're magnetized,
Speaker 2: and that occurs through some process there are a lot
Speaker 2: of different types of magnetism. I just remember as a
Speaker 2: kid doing those experiments where you run a magnet across
Speaker 2: in one direction like a metal substance, and if you
Speaker 2: do it long enough that that metal substance, if it
Speaker 2: is able to be magnetized, becomes magnetized because you're effected
Speaker 2: at its field and it's electrons. But so if you
Speaker 2: find something on the bottom of the ocean floor, maybe
Speaker 2: it's been there for a long time and it got
Speaker 2: magnetized through some process running over I don't know, another
Speaker 2: magnetized thing. I just don't understand it, and I feel
Speaker 2: like such a dumb dumb.
Speaker 3: And so critics again accused Professor Loebe of being too credulous,
Speaker 3: right to having too much of a tendency to believe
Speaker 3: in unproven things. But if you look at his actual
Speaker 3: statements past the headlines, the stuff that he is stating
Speaker 3: as fact is all logical and grounded. The stuff people
Speaker 3: have a problem with him saying that stuff that it's
Speaker 3: what ifing. It's just asking questions, right, And I think
Speaker 3: that's fine to do so, and you could argue that's
Speaker 3: the heart of good science. He's just talking openly about
Speaker 3: the possibilities because it hasn't been disproven. So like for example,
Speaker 3: he talks in depth where he says, basically says, this
Speaker 3: is already a win for science. We don't need aliens.
Speaker 3: We found in interstellar object. This is something from outside
Speaker 3: the Solar system. And unlike Mua Moa, this is the
Speaker 3: one we can touch, right because we could send humanity
Speaker 3: rather could send a craft to chase uma. It would
Speaker 3: be very expensive, it would take a long time.
Speaker 2: How do you catch up to that thing?
Speaker 5: And I mean when you have questions like that, it
Speaker 5: becomes a matter of priority where it's like you know
Speaker 5: something that is reasonably going to yield.
Speaker 3: Results exactly and it's such a gamble. I mean just
Speaker 3: just the math already is tough. So this is even
Speaker 3: without the idea of extraterrestrials. This stuff here on the
Speaker 3: ocean floor by Papua n Guiney. It's great. It's a
Speaker 3: huge win for science. And people are only i think
Speaker 3: looking at skance at it because they think maybe he's
Speaker 3: asking to the questions he's pondering or to provocative because
Speaker 3: he says, look is this technological in origin? Droplets melted
Speaker 3: from a semiconductor or an electric circuit. But that explained
Speaker 3: you know, magnetism.
Speaker 2: There's something interesting too, because if you did design something
Speaker 2: like this and you imagined it would one day interact
Speaker 2: with an atmosphere at the speeds it's traveling to reach
Speaker 2: another star system, you imagine it's going to break up
Speaker 2: and probably you know, be broken down to its constituent
Speaker 2: alloys and stuff, right, because it's going to probably burn
Speaker 2: up unless it's made out of something that is designed
Speaker 2: to both withstand that heat and pressure and the impact
Speaker 2: into either a water or rocky substance as it impacts
Speaker 2: a planet. I mean to be the interstellar spacecraft solar
Speaker 2: wind thing star shot that he was developing, is meant
Speaker 2: to fly past, take some pictures, and then its mission
Speaker 2: is over, continues barreling through towards another star maybe at
Speaker 2: some point in its life, but humanity would never know
Speaker 2: what happened to that thing after it makes its first pass.
Speaker 2: If there's an extraterrestrial civilization that makes something like this
Speaker 2: and it's designed to fly through a star system and
Speaker 2: maybe accidentally impacts Earth like them, information or the usefulness
Speaker 2: of this machine theoretically would have already been done. It's
Speaker 2: if you imagine it's sending signal as it's flying through
Speaker 2: entering our star system. Oh there's a planet here. It's
Speaker 2: sending information back to wherever it originated. Oh there's a planet,
Speaker 2: and we're oh, and it's gone because it crashed, right,
Speaker 2: But it's fulfilled its purpose. Nobody's going to come looking
Speaker 2: for it. But now that civilization would know that this
Speaker 2: planet is.
Speaker 3: Here, Earth is compromised.
Speaker 2: I mean, but really it's like it's almost like sending
Speaker 2: out spores the the way the way Starshot was designed.
Speaker 2: If there's another civilization doing that with just a much
Speaker 2: more robust substance, it does feel like a very close
Speaker 2: potential one to one.
Speaker 3: And there are more questions too. I mean, in every
Speaker 3: I think with Emerson who said, in every work of genius,
Speaker 3: we recognize our own rejected thoughts. They returned to us
Speaker 3: with a sort of alienated majesty. But like, yeah, of
Speaker 3: course we see ourselves in these things. And the neat
Speaker 3: thing is that this idea, this theory, these suppositions do
Speaker 3: line up, right, they do jibe together. And he is
Speaker 3: not saying, by any means that that is true, nor
Speaker 3: is he saying it's confirmed. He's saying it makes you wonder,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, why is this alloy tougher than
Speaker 3: iron meteors? Right? And what other questions do these initial
Speaker 3: questions inspire. Here's a question from our producer, when are
Speaker 3: these guys going to take an ad break?
Speaker 4: Is it now? Ben? Is it now?
Speaker 3: I think we owe it to mister decant and we've returned.
Speaker 3: All right, here's where we're at now. All in all,
Speaker 3: Love's team has recovered something in the area of fifty
Speaker 3: of these tiny spherical, mostly iron fragments. Again, the controversy stuff,
Speaker 3: I think it's a little overblown and it's unfair to
Speaker 3: the science being conducted. But we should note that not
Speaker 3: all scientists are necessarily persuaded that these materials are interstellar.
Speaker 3: At this point. They're saying there could be other explanations, right,
Speaker 3: like terrestrial pollution, sad reality of the ocean. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of human made stuff down there. Is it possible
Speaker 3: that we just don't we just haven't recognized what human
Speaker 3: made kind of thing produced this?
Speaker 2: But what of the nickel?
Speaker 3: But what about the nickel? We're not talking Royce the
Speaker 3: five nine. Yeah, the nickel part is really interesting.
Speaker 2: It is the lack of nickel really makes it makes
Speaker 2: you again, makes Auvy and everybody else involved to go
Speaker 2: that's kind of weird.
Speaker 3: It takes it past the past the threshold of philosophy.
Speaker 3: As Lot said, Yeah.
Speaker 2: For sure, but again for a lot of other people
Speaker 2: what you just said been potential pollution or some other
Speaker 2: thing we're just not accounting for. Is a possibility here
Speaker 2: of why there's no Nickel.
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, we have to, I mean we have
Speaker 3: to be fair and say that. Professor Loeb, for his part,
Speaker 3: he acknowledges that all of the investigative avenues must be explored,
Speaker 3: and that he also says multiple times the extraordinary claims
Speaker 3: require extraordinary evidence.
Speaker 4: Dope.
Speaker 3: Of course he's going to say that he's an astronomer
Speaker 3: from Harvard, right, I feel like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but can can we get to go back
Speaker 2: to be so? To me is one of the most
Speaker 2: fascinating points in this whole episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In Scientific American, and he appears in multiple Scientific
Speaker 3: American articles, as do his colleagues, etc. In one recent one,
Speaker 3: he says, at this time, the possibility that any uap
Speaker 3: R extraterrestrial is highly speculative emphasis hours, and he says,
Speaker 3: but if we entertain this possibility for fun. Then the
Speaker 3: tumbling motion of omuam woa could potentially be meant to
Speaker 3: scan signals from all possible directions.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. So
Speaker 2: we believe omuama is shaped like a cigar, right, and
Speaker 2: then imagine it is spinning like long ways round, right, and.
Speaker 3: It also rotating clockwise.
Speaker 2: Exactly in this weird tumbling motion. And so imagine if
Speaker 2: you have censors on both ends of the cigar, and
Speaker 2: as it's tumbling around, it's just scanning literally everything. Did
Speaker 2: you guys see that movie Prometheus?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was had issues, but there were things
Speaker 5: about it that I loved. I loved the depiction of
Speaker 5: like ancient almost love Craftian beings.
Speaker 3: Space is haunted.
Speaker 2: Yeah that, well, this is not the same thing, but
Speaker 2: I'm just this is what the picture in my mind.
Speaker 2: They have these little spheres that one of the engineers
Speaker 2: puts up into the like just kind of lets it
Speaker 2: levitate and then it's live.
Speaker 5: Boys, right, those are called the engineers, the big the
Speaker 5: big giant gray guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, well this is the human team when
Speaker 2: they arrive for the first time.
Speaker 4: Are you talking about the things that shoot out the
Speaker 4: lasers and map the tunnels and tunnel yeah, so sorry,
Speaker 4: they aren't. The other guys also called engineers literally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you're right, My bad.
Speaker 3: I mean the Eldrich astronauts are called the engineers.
Speaker 2: Yes, one of the human teams that is a specialist
Speaker 2: in mapping these things uses that technology to scan those tunnels, right,
Speaker 2: and the shape of the structure. And I'm imagining something
Speaker 2: like this on much larger scale. But I don't know
Speaker 2: why it wouldn't be shaped like a sphere or why
Speaker 2: you wouldn't design it as a sphere, because you could
Speaker 2: potentially have it spin in a much more uh, I
Speaker 2: don't know, efficient fashion. It would also travel more efficiently.
Speaker 3: If it's if it is intelligently designed, then we have
Speaker 3: to also allow for possible cultural prejudices, right in terms
Speaker 3: of design, like why.
Speaker 2: Is shaped like that here?
Speaker 3: Why do humans use ace ten in numbers? Right? Why?
Speaker 3: Why is that the one?
Speaker 4: I never thought about that? Geez Ben, we're involved.
Speaker 2: No, you're you're absolutely right. But but in this in
Speaker 2: this idea, uh aviy Lobe is saying, well, why not,
Speaker 2: like what if it's just for fun? Like what if
Speaker 2: it is spinning around? Because it's got really powerful scanners
Speaker 2: on those two ends, and it's just doing what it
Speaker 2: needs to do. And here's the other thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it's thought.
Speaker 2: That Omua Muha has been traveling for hundreds of millions
Speaker 2: of years.
Speaker 4: Yes, so is it broken apart by then? Whatever? It
Speaker 4: might be just.
Speaker 2: The sheer rock of space and traveling between star systems
Speaker 2: at least theoretically, but the thing has been bombarded by
Speaker 2: cosmic rays and appears to have this red hue at
Speaker 2: least scientists believe because of its irradiation. Basically over hundreds
Speaker 2: of millions of years.
Speaker 3: It's been through some rough roads, is what they're saying, right.
Speaker 2: I guess just if you send something out like that,
Speaker 2: is it like our voyager system where we're monitoring it
Speaker 2: for the entirety of its trek, or do we lose
Speaker 2: contact with it interesting at some point? Or is it
Speaker 2: a standalone Yeah, just so many possibilities you're saying it.
Speaker 5: It might be some sort of alien space station that's
Speaker 5: out there exploring and monitoring the cosmos like we do
Speaker 5: with ours.
Speaker 3: We're case for sci oh boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, just a thing that goes and it just
Speaker 2: sees what it sees and at some point its mission
Speaker 2: is completed and it's sent all that information back to
Speaker 2: wherever it originated.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: For me, sensor systems are the concept of sensor systems
Speaker 2: that have just been sent out not just our way,
Speaker 2: but towards a bunch of other stars. Feels like a
Speaker 2: super plausible thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, it seems like a logical inevitability for any
Speaker 3: civilization that is interested in space exploration. You want to
Speaker 3: see what's out there, so you have to build eyes
Speaker 3: and ears and then put those things on some kind
Speaker 3: of device to go a little further than you can
Speaker 3: on your planet. I mean, it's I think it's brilliant.
Speaker 3: It also asked the question if this was made designed intelligently,
Speaker 3: dare we say, then, how would the designers monitor it?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: What would be their medium of communication? Is it something
Speaker 3: that humans are aware of? Is it something they could
Speaker 3: remotely understand?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Are there a bunch of like little maybe on their world?
Speaker 3: The life dominant life form is just like a naturally
Speaker 3: spinning cylinder. And those guys are like, well, of course,
Speaker 3: is how we're going to build the satellite? Right, They'll
Speaker 3: get it all the maybe they're like, all the evidence
Speaker 3: we have proves that all life in the universe is
Speaker 3: spinning cylinders, so they'll recognize this.
Speaker 2: If they're also alive, that's it. Well, but would you
Speaker 2: want to be found? I think Obvi's next point in
Speaker 2: this quote, you've found man is again the next mind
Speaker 2: blowing thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dark forest. So there's the idea that is so weird,
Speaker 3: a cosmic stitch up that Umuamua could have arranged to
Speaker 3: appear as coming from the neutral local standard of rest,
Speaker 3: the what he called the galactic parking lot, such that
Speaker 3: it disguises its origin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, would you really want a super powerful
Speaker 2: advanced civilization to know exactly where you are? I mean
Speaker 2: the way we did with Voyager and Forger two, the
Speaker 2: one that had the golden plate on it, the Golden disc.
Speaker 3: It's the Vigier in Star Trek.
Speaker 2: Would you really want to just say, hey, we're down here.
Speaker 2: It feels like maybe a short sighted move, but.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the dark forest, Right, what's the like, what what's
Speaker 3: the old riddle? What's the spookiest message you could receive
Speaker 3: from like alien civilization? It's just be quiet, they're listening. Right.
Speaker 3: No one would said that message because it would give
Speaker 3: double way too. I mean this again, this is not
Speaker 3: is not proven, but it's it's we're thinking about it
Speaker 3: just so. As he said, literally, it's fun to explore
Speaker 3: it conceptually. And he also ends that quote by saying this,
Speaker 3: rather than simply wonder about possible scenarios, we should collect
Speaker 3: better scientific data and clarify the nature of uap is
Speaker 3: a groom yep? I mean, how is that controversial?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: Nope, that's it. That's the thing.
Speaker 3: He also asked, what if this thing from twenty fourteen,
Speaker 3: what if it's somehow tagged Earth and gave Amua mua
Speaker 3: a destination point. WHOA, that's kind of cool, right, I
Speaker 3: have no idea how that would work, because how would
Speaker 3: you observe it.
Speaker 2: The thing in twenty fourteen enters the atmosphere and it's
Speaker 2: still sending information back to its originating point as it's
Speaker 2: entering the atmosphere, and he goes, oh, this planet has
Speaker 2: a viable atmosphere for life. So then a mua mua
Speaker 2: comes by and he's like, let's verify that information, and
Speaker 2: they verify, and then in you know, twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: they show.
Speaker 3: Up, yeah, or they just drove by and We're like, ah,
Speaker 3: we could do a little better as this kind of
Speaker 3: mids you know what I mean, like keep the windows
Speaker 3: rolled up. It's a bad neighborhood. Oh jeez, I don't
Speaker 3: know though, I mean no, do you. What's your take
Speaker 3: on these concepts?
Speaker 4: Man? Well, I'm no rocket scientist.
Speaker 5: It fascinates me and I think it's endlessly curiosity inducing.
Speaker 5: And then to hear somebody with this level of expertise
Speaker 5: kind of ruminating on some of this stuff, it really
Speaker 5: opens up the minds to the possibilities. You know, I
Speaker 5: can't really speak to the specifics of what this thing
Speaker 5: might be, but I am fascinated by the fact that
Speaker 5: it's existed for so long, and it's moved so far
Speaker 5: and maintain and you know it's size. I guess relative
Speaker 5: size and shape, you know, based on what we know,
Speaker 5: because I mean, if it was space wreckage or debris
Speaker 5: or whatever, you think it would have broken apart over
Speaker 5: time or you know, gotten smaller or fragmented or whatever.
Speaker 3: Maybe it did. Maybe that, of course, was a much
Speaker 3: bigger spinny cylinder, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all spinny cylinders, bro, It's just spinny cylinders
Speaker 2: all the way down. That's exactly all. I don't, so
Speaker 2: I want to read something from NASA's website. They've gotten
Speaker 2: an overview on a muamua and this is a It
Speaker 2: speaks to this concept that potentially it was that its
Speaker 2: originating point was disguised, just because again I think this
Speaker 2: makes the mind wonder if it's a possibility here you
Speaker 2: preliminary orbital calculations suggest the object came from the approximate
Speaker 2: direction of the bright star of Vega. That's from our
Speaker 2: perspective here on Earth, right, not street Fighter to Vega
Speaker 2: with the clause in, but that's in the northern constellation
Speaker 2: of Lira. I guess if you're looking up there. However,
Speaker 2: it took so long for the interstellar object to make
Speaker 2: the journey, even at the speed of about fifty nine
Speaker 2: thousand miles per hour that's twenty six point four kilometers
Speaker 2: per second, that Vega was not it was nowhere near
Speaker 2: that or originating position when Amua Mua was there three
Speaker 2: hundred thousand years ago. So it it came from somewhere
Speaker 2: that a star system has moved into at this point
Speaker 2: when it you know, three hundred thousand years after it left.
Speaker 2: So it just makes you go hmm. Man, there's more
Speaker 2: to this.
Speaker 3: I love it. I love the idea. The speculative stuff
Speaker 3: gets a lot of attension, and it should because it's
Speaker 3: smart to think about it, and it has. It brings
Speaker 3: more and more questions as way leads on the way.
Speaker 3: But again, the science behind this too is legitimate. This
Speaker 3: is a credible series of investigations. They're not playing around,
Speaker 3: they're not trying to like builk people in some weird
Speaker 3: you know by a piece of it is still a
Speaker 3: rock scheme or whatever. So I have great respect for that,
Speaker 3: and I also you know, it reminds me of the
Speaker 3: Three Body Problem or the series that came out recently
Speaker 3: or came out years ago that plays with the idea
Speaker 3: of dark Forest quite a bit. And it's ultimately, if
Speaker 3: you think through it with with brutal logic, then it
Speaker 3: feels like a prisoner's dilemma. Right. You simply cannot risk
Speaker 3: the entirety of your civilization on the gamble that another
Speaker 3: civilization will understand, acknowledge, or be cool with you. Those
Speaker 3: are all three tremendous assumptions, you know, uh, And to
Speaker 3: get even one of them wrong could have existential consequences.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so terrifying if a civilization of just like
Speaker 2: oh you're who, I don't have time for this, and
Speaker 2: literally like the wave of a hand kind of thing,
Speaker 2: and we're just.
Speaker 3: God, uh, this is a we have we have other
Speaker 3: sons at home.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: But but with that, you know, I think there's there's
Speaker 3: something we can conclude, which is Loeb is not claiming
Speaker 3: that he and his team or anyone have found proof
Speaker 3: of extraterrestrial civilization or life. He is saying that they
Speaker 3: have found something extraordinarily strange, and at this point he
Speaker 3: is asking what if. And he's one of the smartest,
Speaker 3: most well positioned people to ask that sort of question.
Speaker 3: That's the soul of goods. I also all got I
Speaker 3: love the idea of haunted space, and I just if
Speaker 3: you guys are kid with it, I have to ask
Speaker 3: you about this comic book series. I want to see
Speaker 3: if you've read it, Outer Darkness.
Speaker 4: I don't think I know that one.
Speaker 3: You are going to love it.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 3: It's it's like imagine all your favorite horror movies, hauntings,
Speaker 3: demonic possession, lovecraft stuff, really weird period fiction. It's all
Speaker 3: in there. It's an absolute great rate.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've heard about this. It's on a list
Speaker 2: of ones that I'm supposed to pick up.
Speaker 5: Oh what, there's another really good one called Nameless.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I love Nameless.
Speaker 5: That one's upsetting, Yeah, gnarly. I would say the Week
Speaker 5: of Stomach maybe not apply, but that's another good existential
Speaker 5: like what's out there, like almost event horizon esque, kind
Speaker 5: of like space as a.
Speaker 3: Portal to hell evil gnosticism, right, that's right. Yeah. And
Speaker 3: then oh man, there's so many good horror space graphic
Speaker 3: novels and explorations. Nameless as a stem to stern banger,
Speaker 3: super optimistic and inspiring. Read it and you'll see what
Speaker 3: we mean. Yeah, the tinge of sarcasm, outer darkness, also
Speaker 3: stem disturned banger. That's going to be a reread for me, gents.
Speaker 3: And and you know, we might speak of rereading. We
Speaker 3: might need to give the science a little more time
Speaker 3: and perhaps one day ask Professor l himself to drop
Speaker 3: by the show.
Speaker 2: What do you guys think, Abby, Come on down, come
Speaker 2: on out.
Speaker 3: He does. He does, again, seem like a person acting
Speaker 3: in good faith with sincerity, and he, just like the
Speaker 3: rest of us, he wants to believe, like he wants
Speaker 3: the truth to be out there.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine actually talking with him? Please, Abby, please
Speaker 2: come come do an episode. That'll be awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah we could. Yeah, let's make it happen. And at
Speaker 3: that point, you know who else we would like to
Speaker 3: hear from you, fellow conspiracy realists. Let us know what's
Speaker 3: on your mind. If you have proof of extraterrestrial civilization,
Speaker 3: of course, as always, hit us up. Or if you don't,
Speaker 3: that's fine too. If you just have some cool ideas,
Speaker 3: we love to hear those. Well, yeah, we love to
Speaker 3: hear anything that you've got to offer. You can reach
Speaker 3: out to us in a multitude of ways. Firstly via
Speaker 3: your social media platform of choice, where you can find
Speaker 3: to the handle conspiracy Stuff on YouTube x hey, Twitter,
Speaker 3: and Facebook where we have our Facebook group Here's where
Speaker 3: it gets crazy. On Instagram and TikTok we are Conspiracy
Speaker 3: Stuff show.
Speaker 4: Hey.
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Speaker 2: make sounds that other people can understand? Why not call
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