1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: name is Noah, my name is Ben. You are you 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know? 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: But not any ordinary episode of this show. And here's 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: the part where you're saying, well, Ben, what is ordinary? 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: Great question question for another day, ladies and gentlemen, because 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: we are joined today by a special guest, a returning 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: force to our show, longtime collaborator and friend of all 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: three of ours, ladies and gentlemen, the illustrious, the magnanimous, 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: the Transatlantic accenting, the phenomenal, the inevitable, ladies and gentlemen, 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: Jonathan Stricklett. Guys, I have to say that your ability 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: to introduce a person is only matched by your ability 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: to tie incredibly complicated knots. I look forward to getting 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: out of the studio. What are we talking about today? Okay, 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: let's get through this quickly then, guys. Look, no one 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: is getting untied until the show is over. Pipe down strictly, 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: all right, And that goes for you as well, Matt. 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 1: It is an excellent question. We are talking today about 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: something that might seem a little bit strange for some people, 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: which is advertising, but not just advertising, a specific kind 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: of advertising, targeted online advertising. So in our personal lives, 25 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: let's start there. Have you guys had any weird experiences 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: yourself with that? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, well, I mean all 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: sorts of things, right, But okay, So first, when you 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: think about targeted advertising, you know you wanted to find 29 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: that a little bit, right. This is advertising that is 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: specifically geared to most likely uh interest you, based upon 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: whatever data the advertiser has on you in the effort 32 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: to sell a good or service to you. Right. That's 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: the whole purpose of ads. So often we talk about 34 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: data mining, machine learning, examining people's behavior in order to 35 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: target them more effectively. But in the beginning, before you 36 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: gather all that information you're targeted, ads tend to be 37 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: a little more random and chaotic, may not necessarily really 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: target the person. And I'm specifically thinking of an AD 39 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: that popped up again and again and again for me 40 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: on Facebook for the longest time until I actually had 41 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: to take the effort to hide that ad. And say 42 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: I don't want to see this anymore. I didn't do that. 43 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: Yes you can, you can, you can. There's a little 44 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: there's a little menu you can pull up and say 45 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: this doesn't interest me. And and what it can do 46 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: is it actually tells Facebook, oh well, I can better 47 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: serve ads to this person by not showing this stuff 48 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: like it benefits Facebook, it benefits the companies that are advertising, 49 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: and it benefits the user. Right. What was the head was? 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: Uh for a muscle enhancer which had an impossibly muscular 51 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: person with an impossibly tiny head. Uh, Like you look 52 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: at you think if this isn't photoshopped, this guy has 53 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: a miserable experience in his day to day life because 54 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: he's so muscular that his range of movement has to 55 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: be limited. It does not at all make me want 56 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: to even remotely consider getting whatever nutritional supplement they're trying 57 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: to sell or or there you know, uh weight loss 58 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: program or muscle building photoshop courses. I mean, you guys 59 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: can see me. You you guys out there can't, but 60 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: the guys here in the podcast room could see me. 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 1: Your head is normal size. And you can also tell 62 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: that I am clearly not terrible ly concerned about building 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: lots of muscle mass. I don't know. I might need 64 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: a few moments here. I could take off the shirt, 65 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: but that's probably not something any of us really wants 66 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: to have burned into our memory. All that being said, 67 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: you do clearly have a pension for different flavors of 68 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: muscle milk. Well, that's true. That's it's just because you know, 69 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: I support those guys really fast to get in here 70 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: before we move on. I recently had a baby and 71 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: we made the mistake of making a registry at Target. 72 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: And as soon as we did that, all of the 73 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: advertising back when we had cable, all of it was 74 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: maybe centric and maybe it wasn't the you know, going 75 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: to Target doing that, Maybe it was our search result 76 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: in history, maybe it was any number of things. But 77 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: as soon as that life event happened for us, every 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: advertisement that we saw was about it. I've got I've 79 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: got an even more recent one for me that um, 80 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what comes out of it now, 81 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: because right now, at the earliest stages, I was looking 82 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: for a price quote for a particular type of vehicle. 83 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: So I used a website where you can get price 84 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: comparisons for dealerships in your area that sell whatever vehicle 85 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: you're looking into, and in order to get that information, 86 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: you have to do things like put in your email 87 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: address and put in your phone number. I knew what 88 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: was going to happen while I was doing it, but 89 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: I really needed to see those price quotes, so I 90 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: did it. Immediately, I'm getting phone calls and emails from 91 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: all the dealerships in the area. Now that's the first wave. 92 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: I suspect what happens next is if I keep checking 93 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: my email and I looked through the spam filter, I'm 94 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: gonna see a lot of car related stuff come at me. 95 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: Not the specific make and model that I was looking at, 96 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: but all sorts of things like aftermarket and all that 97 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, the related things around the car industry. 98 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: I expect I'll get a lot of that because I 99 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: have been identified as someone actively looking into purchasing a car, 100 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: and it is very valuable information for a company to have. 101 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: They could sell that to other companies before money, and 102 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 1: then I get inundated by all this advertising. So let's 103 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: look at advertisements. Jonathan, you provided an excellent definition of 104 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: what an advertisement is, essentially at heart and unsolicited attempt 105 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: to showcase the benefits of product X or the less 106 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: concrete sense of the brand or tone of an experience, 107 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: in hopes of having you, the customer, purchase an item 108 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: or service. And the thing is this is super I'm 109 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: not gonna occurse because we're still a family show. This 110 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: is super old. How old is it? Well, the earliest 111 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: known advertisement that we have right now comes from three 112 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: thousand BC from thebes Grease. I'm not sure if you've 113 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: seen this, Jonathan, you might have seen this, but it's uh, 114 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: it's it can't take a wild guess. I mean, if 115 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: I had to guess ancient Greece advertisement, I'm gonna say 116 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: it's something brothel related. No, in fact, which got one 117 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: to tell you? Yeah? Okay, Well, let me do this 118 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: one really fast. So this was for okay, let's just 119 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: go to it. It was a seller of fabrics who 120 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: had made this papyrus right, and he claimed that he 121 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: would give a reward to anyone who would report the 122 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: whereabouts of quote slave sem somebody. This was, yeah, Hapo 123 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: was was the name of the gentleman, and not to 124 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: be confused with Shemp, the underappreciated Yes so anywhere, Yes, so, 125 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: anyone who would report the whereabouts of this slave sem 126 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: and then report to him at his store where he 127 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: is would get a reward. And here's the thing it's 128 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: said on the papyrus, anyone who returns him to the 129 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: store quote where the most beautiful fabrics are woven for 130 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: each person's taste. By the way, I think it sounds 131 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: more like an A. P. B. Than an AD. It's 132 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: it's both, it's both. The pirates was crazy. You know, 133 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: it wasn't as available as paper is today. But I 134 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: think I know the example you're going to mention. Yeah, 135 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: so the example I'm mentioning was a more permanent type 136 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: of advertise. And uh so I've I've visited Pompeii, well 137 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: known as the village that was completely engulfed in volcanic ash, 138 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: killing everybody who was there, but preserving the village very well. 139 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: And you can go and tour Pompeii and it's very interesting. 140 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: One of the things you will notice if you're looking down, 141 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: which I recommend you do because the ground is very 142 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: uneven in certain places, is that every occasional paving stone 143 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: you come across, there's a very particular relief on that 144 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: paving stone, a fallus if you will, or as my 145 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: tour guide referred to it, a p noose, and these 146 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: pointed the direction toward the closest brothel. Yes, because people 147 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: would have visit Pompeii and they wouldn't necessarily be able 148 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: to speak Greek. It was all Greek to them, but 149 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: they understood what the signs meant, could follow it and 150 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: get to their desired destination, whereupon they would be greeted 151 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: with a mural that would have the offerings of the 152 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: house displayed, and they could just point to whatever one 153 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: they wanted, the House of ill Repute. And so as 154 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: we see, advertising is an ancient craft, art, science, trick scam. 155 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: Much of what we see a modern advertising today can 156 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: be traced back to a fellow named Edward Burns. We 157 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: will not labor you with the description of Edward Burns 158 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: other than to say you can check out our multiple 159 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: videos and audio podcasts on it. The first audio podcast 160 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: for this show actually go all the way back. The 161 00:09:53,640 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: dude was incredibly manipulative and intelligent and and some could 162 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: argue unscrupulous. And so now we know there are several 163 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: types of advertisement. Here just a few. So first we 164 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: have direct address. So this is basically the equivalent of Hello, 165 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: I am an ad for this product, product X, y 166 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: Z whatever. Here is a cool joke by it by me. 167 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: So it's the idea of sort of instilling positive feelings 168 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: in people and associating those positive feelings with a particular product, 169 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: like those those lovely Mentos ads from the nineties. You know, 170 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: that was a trivia question recently and I immediately recalled 171 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: the warm, fuzzy feelings you got when you saw that 172 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: plucky businessman who got paint on his suit lay down 173 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: on the bench and turn it into a pin stripe. 174 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: You know, it was just like you go guy for me. 175 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: I think the most recent example that that leaps to 176 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: mind would be either the old spice commercials, which sure yeah, 177 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: the ones that us Campbell as well, those two, because 178 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: they instill that sense of absurd city while getting across 179 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: this idea of this is this is a manly, manly 180 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: thing and will make you manly while not stinky and 181 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: clearly for our purpose. Is one of the most important 182 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: things here is that it is clearly being sold transparently, 183 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: and then that gets us to other things that would 184 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: be like branded content. You can find this in uh 185 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: not nonprofits and NPR, for instance, that they will have 186 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: something where there will be a show that you might 187 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: enjoy or an episode of a thing, and then at 188 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: the beginning or at the end, or somewhere in the middle, 189 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: they will say brought to you by And this is 190 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: this is something where the advertiser wants to be associated 191 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: with the thing but doesn't want to, you know, be 192 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: all in your business. About a company that is super 193 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: successful at doing that is red Bull. They do it 194 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: all for themselves, So they have these publications. They make 195 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: these skateboard videos, extreme sports videos, and all the gear 196 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: that people featuring these videos are wearing have red Bull 197 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: all over it. The skate board half pipe says red Bull. 198 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: The bloody parachute says red Bull. You know, but at 199 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: the same time, you're like, you know what, this is 200 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: exciting content. I'm enjoying watching these people do these death 201 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: defying feats. And and and one person sitting at this 202 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: table has a show sponsored by a large company. I 203 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: I do a show called Forward Thinking, and our sponsor 204 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: is Toyota. And Toyota is the company that makes our 205 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: show possible. It is entirely because of them. If it 206 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: weren't for Toyota, it would not exist. And again you're 207 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: transparent about it. Every episode starts with a pre roll 208 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: that's just brought to you by Toyota. And even even 209 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: more importantly to me is that Toyota gives me the 210 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: message of we want you to talk about things that 211 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: excite you about the future. That was my that's my 212 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: that's my direction is awesome. They don't, they don't give 213 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: you anything. They don't ever, they don't ever tell them like, 214 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: they don't ever tell them, like what you should do 215 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: is relate space travel to this new sedan, right, And 216 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: so the direction I get is, what do you think 217 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: it's really awesome about the future? Make episodes about that? 218 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: And I don't, like, I don't even have to submit 219 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: something to Toyota to get approval. They trust me to 220 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: do what is good for our show and good for 221 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: their brand, which is weird because you're crazy sketchy. Yeah, well, 222 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's true. But for four years we've 223 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: managed to do that show. So, and this is one 224 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: of those things where if it's done well, it can 225 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: be a huge wind for everyone involved, but it can 226 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: also go in a bad direction either for for any 227 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: of the parties. And it's just because it hasn't been 228 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: handled properly that brings us to a darker side what 229 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: is called native advertising, or in a clever portmanteau advertorial 230 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: it yeah, so that what's that in Jonathan? You know? Yeah, 231 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: it would go kind of like this, Hi, I'm a 232 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: real thing. I'm not an ad, but hey, hey, is 233 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: it isn't product X cool? You know what that reminds me? 234 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: There is some legitimate journalism that I can point to 235 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: right here that this shows you how objectively amazing Product 236 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: X is not to mention science. Look at the science 237 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: right and this this is this is an iteration that 238 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: you can probably recognize any time you've been on the internet. 239 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: You can also see it in history, for one example, 240 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: with Edward Burns of course, and had the reason people 241 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: bacon for breakfast because there was this avatarial thing which 242 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: was purportedly a study by doctors. During a darker time 243 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: in my life, I actually worked for UM, a company 244 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: that published a community magazine. You guys know these community magazines. 245 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: Everyone's got it your little city as a city X magazine. 246 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to name names, but based on 247 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: my experience with this, I can only assume that a 248 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: lot of them are kind of like this, but I 249 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: could be wrong with My particular situation was like this, 250 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: where every single piece of content in this City X 251 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: magazine was paid for by local business owners, but it 252 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: was all like trained as some sort of profile or 253 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: some sort of you know, community interest piece where it's about, 254 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: look the great things that this lawyer is doing. But wait, 255 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: why are there nine stories about nine different lawyers in 256 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: this magazine. That's weird. That is native advertising advertorials, and 257 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: that's the bread and butter of a lot of these 258 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: smaller publications because people want to be seen, and they 259 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: want but the thing is, no one's Maybe some people 260 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: are fooled, but I would say anyone listening to the 261 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: show likely would not be fool or taken in. It's 262 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: one of the things that I find the most maddening 263 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: about that approach, because we know you guys out there, 264 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: We know that you are smart, we know that you 265 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: can smell when someone's trying to sell something to you, 266 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: and you can't imagine how frustrating it can be on 267 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: the other side of that equation to be the person 268 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: who has to produce that thing through whatever directive, like 269 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: to be told, Hey, you've got to create this podcast 270 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: or video or article or whatever it may be because 271 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: we want to sell more widgets, and so you've got 272 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: to make this widget thing. And uh, it's your you 273 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: know how widgets work, but you but really you're you're 274 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: explaining how awesome widgets are. Uh. This doesn't happen frequently, 275 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: and it's not something that I think most people have 276 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: caught on that. It's not necessarily the most useful approach 277 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: because since the audience can recognize what's happening, they lose 278 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: respect for the outlet that is producing the stuff. They're saying, Oh, 279 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: these people are just selling an ad or they're just 280 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: selling a product or service. Therefore I don't respect them 281 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: anymore because it is stuff they don't want you to know. 282 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: But the problem is you know it when you see it. 283 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,119 Speaker 1: This brings us to the subject of two Days podcast, 284 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: which is targeted advertising. No based on what we know 285 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: about you, and we do know more than you think. 286 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: Jonathan Matt and I are going to show you this product. 287 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: You're going to love it. Everything about who you are 288 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: tells us you were going to love it. I'm excited 289 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: to see it. Look, look, look, look, didn't you say 290 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: you like kayaks? I love kayaks and this one plays electronica. 291 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: I love electronica playing kayaks, and maybe Tom York signed it. 292 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: You'll never know unless you buy it. Never know. There's 293 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: also a handy place to put whiskey. What are you 294 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: saying that I'm an alcoholic? No, we just know you. 295 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: Oh no, he just clicked he found this ad offensive. 296 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: Back to the drawing board. The next step was to 297 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: talk about Beard Doyle. That's funny. That's funny, But it's 298 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: kind of the way these things are. It's a it's 299 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: a series of trial and error. It's like Jonathan was 300 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: saying earlier with the offensive what not offensive? But the 301 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: ad that was getting on your nerves to the point 302 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: where you had to hide it. When you told Facebook 303 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: that you didn't want to see that ad, it Facebook 304 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: took that as an opportunity, the opportunity to say, Okay, 305 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: well he doesn't like this, Let's try something new, Let's 306 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: try something Let's let's change a little bit and see 307 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: if he maybe likes this version of this thing. It's 308 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: switching up the bait in the trap and going further 309 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: than that. Like like the early stages of this it 310 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: relied a lot on us giving direct information to whatever 311 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: platform we're talking about. Like Facebook is a great example, 312 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: saying actively saying I don't like this, Well, Facebook's like, 313 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: all right, well, now we know they don't like this, 314 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: but maybe they like this other thing. Maybe body builders 315 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: like bigger heads. Yeah, maybe that would have made me 316 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: feel less freaked out at this. Amazon is another great example, right, 317 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Like the early version of Amazon is that you would 318 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: buy something, or you would be browsing for a specific thing, 319 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: and it would just show you related items that other 320 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: people who had also bought that that particular item were 321 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: interested in. Say, hey, people who are interested in kayaks 322 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: often also look at paddles. That makes sense, right. The 323 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: thing there is it's you are feeding Amazon this information 324 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: by buying things, and the more things you buy, oh 325 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: and god forbid you buy one of those suggested items, 326 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: the more accurate it gets at predicting the kinds of 327 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: things you or people like you will like. Once a month, 328 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: I buy something just completely out of left field. It's 329 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: like when you do the ratings on Netflix, you're giving 330 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: the algorithm good information that it can then turn around 331 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: and serve you better adds. Is that a good thing. Ah, 332 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: that's where he goes. So let's just talk about the 333 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: evolution of this. So when the nineteen nineties, internet companies 334 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: websites advertised with a method that was pretty similar to 335 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: what we saw in television. Right, it would say, we'll 336 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: choose ads based on what we think will appeal to 337 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: the most people in an audience. So, for example, we've 338 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: got Jonathan on a site about baseball statistics, and they 339 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: don't know anything about you other than you're a person 340 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: who visited this site, and by the virtue of that 341 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: piece of information, they say, you know what, ads for gloves, 342 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: ads for bats, ads for related merchandise, bobbleheads, bobbleheads perfos. Yeah. Yeah, 343 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: it's pretty simple on the surface. It worked for TV, 344 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: but a great deal of marketing, research and focus group 345 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: stuff when in behind this. In the early two thousands, 346 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: online advertising, like the terminator robots started to become more sophisticated. 347 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: At first, we could tell the difference, right, but now 348 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: it became a little more complex. Company said hey, we 349 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: can use this Amazon stuff. So companies said, hey, we 350 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: can use these Google browsing habits. This anonymous information on 351 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: this allowed companies to tailor ads to a specific user. 352 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: So it's for example, Matt, you and Jonathan could vote 353 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: both visit the same website on your computers and and 354 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: and you wouldn't see the same ads you would have. 355 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: You would have space a auded for an AD or 356 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: perhaps a pop up or pop under whatever format that 357 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: ad would take. And I'm sure we could all list 358 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: our most hated types of advertising from top to bottom. 359 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,719 Speaker 1: Pop unders are the worst anyway, especially pop unders with 360 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: automated audio playing. But yeah, what is this my Space 361 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: or GEO? You made me decide to never buy a 362 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: kayak again, I guess, and just not hanging out in 363 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: the rapid. There are a couple of sites in particular 364 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: that are super guilty of those, Like I'm gonna say 365 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: Salon is like one of the worst of the middle 366 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: of an article and then this animated video will come 367 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: down and fill up the whole screen, play music at me, 368 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I don't even want to I 369 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: don't even remember what I was reading anymore. That there 370 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: are other ones that have like related video that will 371 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: start to auto play, yeah, and then you have to 372 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: track it down like is at the top of the 373 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: screen is the bottom of the screen where can I 374 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: turn this off? Do I just need to mute the tab, 375 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: which I have done in the past, But at any rate, Yeah, 376 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: there's very us on a page that are designated for advertising, 377 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: whether it's on the physical page itself or it's some 378 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: sort of pop up or whatever. And while that layout 379 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: would remain largely the same for for Matt's visit and 380 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: for my visit, the actual ads we would view would 381 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: be based more upon the information that the web browser 382 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: was able to pull from me, that the the web 383 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: page owner was able to pull for me. Really, when 384 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: you think about it, those ads spaces, it's kind of 385 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: like a placeholder. You've got an advertising company that is 386 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: responsible for serving the ads that go into that placeholder. 387 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: The advertising company has tons of clients. Some of those 388 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: clients are going to appeal to Matt, some of those 389 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: clients are going to appeal to me. Some might appeal 390 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: to both of us. And so what will happen is 391 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: based on Matt's behavior, which is exemplary, he would get 392 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: a certain type of ads, and based upon my behavior, 393 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: which is nefarious, I would get a different set of ads. 394 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: We're talking aboutlawful good, lawful evil, differ at experience I 395 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: have often been described as lawful idea, who I am? 396 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: And really? Um So, so it sounds like we're kind 397 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: of demonizing ads a little bit. Yeah, but we do 398 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: need these things to to have our economy continue functioning. 399 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: Not to mention we specifically as Internet content creators need 400 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: these things as in this show and ads. Let's let's 401 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: remember the ads can actually show us stuff that is 402 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: useful to us. Right, So, so if if people use 403 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: the abilities that we have generated for targeted advertising, and 404 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: those abilities include things like collecting and mining huge amounts 405 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: of information about an enormous number of people, being able 406 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: to differentiate the important factors in that and match advertising 407 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: up with those factors, to parse it, yeah, and to 408 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: act upon it properly. That's that's pretty complicates of this 409 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: kid stuff. If we use that correctly, then under ideal circumstances, 410 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: our experience as users will be that we encounter the 411 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: ads that actually matter to us, stuff that either we 412 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: would otherwise be interested in maybe we were actively searching 413 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: for it, but we hadn't found what we really wanted yet, 414 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,719 Speaker 1: and we would be able to connect to the things 415 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: that matter to us. And that's a positive experience on 416 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: our end, the the company selling that good or service, 417 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: it's a positive experience on therein because they get a customer. 418 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: The advertising company, it's a positive experience on there, And 419 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: because they delivered the proper ad to the proper place, 420 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: to the proper time. And for whatever website that ad 421 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: appears on, it's a positive experience. Because they get rewarded 422 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: for being the host of that ad, everyone wins. The 423 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: problem is this technology, this capacity that we have, it 424 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: is much easier to misuse it than to use it properly. 425 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: Returning to our earlier comparison of the evolution of terminators, 426 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: or for fans of deep cuts, the evolution of the 427 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: robots and screamers, huh anyone? Oh man? You know so 428 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: many things are like that movie Looper all the time. 429 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: The thing that we find though, is that as there 430 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: is an increasingly cynical and jaded and aware population, people 431 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: don't care to be manipulated. I think we can all agree. 432 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: As this population learns more and more about these advertising tricks, 433 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: and as people build things like ad blockers and stuff 434 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: like that, targeted advertising is also evolving and finding new 435 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: ways to gather more data. So it leads us to 436 00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: a question is there a legitimate privacy concern when it 437 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: comes to targeted advertising? Jonathan, you raised an excellent point 438 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: in a live podcast we did just before we hopped 439 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: into while we were in the studio, but just before 440 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: we started recording, and you can also shameless plug check 441 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: it out on our web on our Facebook page, Facebook 442 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: dot com, forward slash conspiracy stuff. And you said something 443 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: that really stayed with me, which is you talked about 444 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: collecting this data and you said it's anonymous. You said, 445 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: the thing they care least about is your name. Your 446 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: name means nothing. What what an advertiser needs to know 447 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: is what are you interested in? How likely are you 448 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: to buy something, how frequently are you going to buy it, 449 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: and what is the best way to convince you to 450 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: buy that thing? What your name is matters probably the least. 451 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: But here's the other thing is that it takes a 452 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: an incredibly small amount of data to identify a person. Uh. 453 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: There was a Harvard study that came out several years 454 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: ago in which a professor found that really if you 455 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: had a person's zip code, uh, the uh, the model 456 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: of car they had, and the color of that car. UM. 457 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: I think there might have been one other piece of 458 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: information that you could identify more than of the individuals 459 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: based upon that little bit of information. So think about 460 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: all the stuff, all the data you create just through 461 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: your browsing. So they're they're using local vehicle registrations to 462 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: find everybody. Well, this was just an example from Harvard 463 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: saying that it takes very little. It takes very few 464 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: points of data to to identify a person, to to 465 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: link it to an actual individual. But Jonathan, I'm a 466 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: beautiful and unique snow flick. Isn't it a bit reductive 467 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: to you describe me and to find me based on 468 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: just a handful of data points? Absolutely, but that's what 469 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: advertising does. Right, there's this sounds like there's some unrest 470 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: in the demo. That's okay, we can we can give 471 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: him some some nice uh some nice, some nice soft 472 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: drinks to really just take that edge off with valium 473 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: valium gas. So here's the thing. It doesn't take very 474 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: much information to get a really good grip on who 475 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: a person is. Even if you don't know the person's name, 476 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: you know what there wants and desires are, like the 477 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: things that make us us. We end up sharing that 478 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: through our activities online, just through your browsing history that 479 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: tells people a lot of stuff. What you share on 480 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: social networks obviously tells people a lot of stuff, and 481 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: this is valuable information for advertisers. They pay money to 482 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: get access to that kind of information. And so there 483 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: are companies that when they gather that info, they gather 484 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: that data, they'll sell it to a data broker. The 485 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: data broker will go around collecting larger and larger amounts 486 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: of this information. Just imagine a huge spreadsheet filled with 487 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: lots of little data points about the things that you 488 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: are particularly interested in. Then they'll go and sell that 489 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: to advertisers who will then plot advertising against that information. Now, 490 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: clearly this could lead to some really nasty breaches in 491 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,959 Speaker 1: privacy and security if it's used incorrectly. Before we move on, 492 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: I remember you did a tech stuff a while back. 493 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: We talked about some of this stuff, and I was 494 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: surprised to find that as an individual, your data ain't 495 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: worth all that much in terms of monetary value. It's 496 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: when you bundle it together for big picture use that 497 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: it becomes valuable. But do you remember what that number was? 498 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: It was? It was I think just it was either 499 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: just over or just under one dollar for for a person, 500 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: that's how much you're worth. Now. Now, obviously to you, 501 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: that information is worth a lot more because that is you, 502 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: that is who you are, That that information represents the 503 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: person that you are, So do you is priceless. To 504 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: a company that is trying to sell that data to 505 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: an advertiser, it's worth around the buck a dollar per person, 506 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: And obviously the amount of money is dependent also upon 507 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: how rich is that data, how much information do they have, 508 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: what's the depth of profile? And we are the ones 509 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: handing that information over. We are actively doing it ourselves 510 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: simply by using the Internet, by browsing the pages we 511 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: go to, by posting the things that we post on 512 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter, we are actively generating that information that 513 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: other people are selling and profiting from. Now you can 514 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: limit that to a degree, I would, yeah, mitigate is 515 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: probably a better word. So you could do things like 516 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: you could use uh incognito mode where you're not using 517 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: cookies or anything like that. That would help limit the 518 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: amount of information that you are sharing when you're visiting 519 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: various websites, But that also limits what you're able to do. Right, 520 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: Let's say you want to buy something on Amazon while 521 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: you've got to be signed into an account. Yeah. I 522 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: mean that's just the way the system works. It's like, 523 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: if you want to buy something in the store, you 524 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: better have money or a credit card or something like that. Uh, 525 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: if you don't, you can't buy the thing. And or 526 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: for something like a social media platform, Facebook being the 527 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: example we're using in this podcast, a social media platform 528 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: that is built to show you things it thinks you 529 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: would like from your friends, uses some of the same 530 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: techniques that they used to sell you kayaks or baseball uh, gloves, bats. 531 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: What do we do? I think we did tickets like 532 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: baseball sticks man the ball into the goal and you 533 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: know what sports ball paddles. It adds up, It adds up. 534 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: But that's that's a very good point, and at this 535 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: point we also should look at something that needs to 536 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: be more transparent across the board. Often online advertising is 537 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: what I would call the Achilles Heel of online content. 538 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a primary funding thing that enables 539 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff we like to see to occur. 540 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: And you know, if you have listened to this show 541 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: for more than this episode, you know that occasionally we 542 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: have run ads, sometimes by really cool companies like Great 543 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: courses right where you can pretty much learn for free. 544 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: Or we've run ads for shadier companies, like an outfit 545 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: called Illumination Global Unlimited. So we want to be completely 546 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: clear about this that we see this practice across the board, 547 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: across the world, and across the net as a continuing thing. 548 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: The Pandora's box, which was actually a jar in the story, 549 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: is is already open. Ben. It's not just a continuing thing. 550 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: This is going to be an explosive thing. Let me 551 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: paint a picture of what the future is going to be. Bend, 552 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: I get under the just grab a brush. Just imagine this. 553 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: This future, This is the future of future generations, Matt. 554 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: So you think about that for a second. Okay, I'm 555 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: getting real here, man. So it's a world where you 556 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: can put on UH an augmented reality pair of glasses 557 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: which gives you incredible abilities to see all sorts of 558 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: really awesome information. Imagine being able to walk down the 559 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: streets of London and with a simple command you can 560 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: look at what it would have looked like during Shakespeare's time. 561 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: It would be really cool. That's really interesting stuff. Or 562 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: you're just asking to get directions in a city that 563 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: you're not familiar with. And it's giving you a little 564 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: overlay showing you where you need to walk and where 565 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: you can turn really useful stuff. Oh it's also pointing out, hey, 566 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: you really like curry. You had eight of that curry 567 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: place a couple of weeks ago. That was really awesome. 568 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: This place that you're passing right now has the best 569 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: curry in the city. You should probably go in there 570 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: and eat. Oh and by the way, across the street, Uh, 571 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: there's a book shop and they are having a sale 572 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: for Neil game in books. I know you really loved 573 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: the that last Neil gaming book. You loved American God. 574 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: So you need to go in there. And oh, by 575 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: the way, you try to push, you try to push 576 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: skip and then you get at you cannot skip this content. 577 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: Now you know who's done this. The best, the best 578 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: UM pop culture representation of this near future dystopia is 579 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: on a little show called Black Mirror that many of 580 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: you might be familiar with, in an episode called fifteen 581 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: Million Merits, and it's the second episode is the second episode. Yes, 582 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: it depicts a world where there is a hierarchy um 583 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: a class divide between content creators basically and people that 584 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: are working the equivalent of blue collar jobs, and they 585 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: ride these bikes to generate power for the content creators. 586 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: Presumably it's not entirely clear, because it's almost this fairy 587 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: tale structure, which that's a wonderful one of and you're 588 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: following from the perspective of one of those blue colors, 589 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: which means that you have a limited amount of information 590 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: about the world. But the way it works is they 591 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: spend time on these exercise bikes and earn the equivalent 592 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: of pay, but it's actually some sort of imaginary money 593 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: called Xbox for merits. It's like Xbox points, and it 594 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: gives them the ability to buy um different pieces of 595 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: clothing for their avatar, which in the episode looks kind 596 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: of like those WE those ME characters and the WE 597 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: network or whatever. And I don't want to spoil anything. 598 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: Everyone that hasn't seen it, please watch it. It's a wonderful, 599 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: prescient piece of science fiction. The whole series is fantastic. Actually, 600 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: it's been picked up by Netflix for an American not reboot, 601 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: but whole new run featuring the same show runner, Charlie Brooker, 602 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: who is a genius. Anyway. The way the ads play 603 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: in the episode are you get this ad and you 604 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: can skip it, but it could cost you. It will 605 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: cost you your merits to skip the ad. And then eventually, 606 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, the people that don't have any merits, they 607 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: got to watch all the ads. And it's this whole 608 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: economic ecosystem, for lack of a better term, where you know, 609 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: it's like a self feeding system. It's it's like indentured servitude, 610 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: but it's a high tech version of it. So the 611 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: thing is that that this advertising is going to become 612 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: more pervasive as we get into the realm of the 613 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: Internet of things, as we get personal digital assistance, like 614 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 1: you get things like um the Amazon Echo or Google. 615 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: As we record this, it's on the day that Google 616 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: announced their Google Assistant, and they're going to have their 617 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: own Amazon Echo type of product called Google Home. These 618 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: are products that will live in our houses if we 619 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: choose to buy them, and they will listen when we 620 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: talk to them, and maybe sometimes they'll listen when we're 621 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: not trying to talk to them, and they will help 622 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: us do things and buy stuff and learn about us 623 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: and learn what stuff we want to buy. And it 624 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: becomes so pervasive and part of our lives that it 625 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: just becomes reality, and it's no longer adds it is reality, 626 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: right right, It's just another layer of information that is biquitous, 627 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: the same way that the majority of people receive constant 628 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 1: information from their skin, their eyes, their ears, or their nose. Right. 629 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: And it's terrifying because I just see these pictures of 630 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: someone like. Let's let's step even further, a little bit 631 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: less plausible at this point. Let's go full dystopian. Let's 632 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: say that you have an offer to have the Internet 633 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: in your head boom little chip. You can search anything 634 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: we talked about on this show before. And it's free, 635 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: but it's ad supported, which means that every so often, 636 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: when you're in the midst of some amazing research and 637 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: you're saying, you're saying, oh, Google, what was the name 638 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: of r Siria or whomever? What was the name of 639 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: at John Carpenter movie with Kurt Russell right right right, 640 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: and and then this list pops up in your in 641 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: your like interface and you can somehow see it, and 642 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: then it pauses and everything stops, and you listen to 643 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: a voice in your head tell you about the reboot 644 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: of Big Trouble in Little China, and it's louder Jonathan, 645 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 1: you are our tech expert here how stuff works. And 646 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: one thing we love about having you over on our 647 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: show or coming to visit you on your show is 648 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: that we are able to explore in a credible and 649 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 1: well informed way these possibilities that that can so often 650 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: be exaggerated but then also ignored when there, when there 651 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: is dangerous. So we come to you today to ask 652 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: do you think this stuff is possible? If so, do 653 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: you think it's plausible? How realistic is that picture you painted? 654 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,800 Speaker 1: The picture I painted with augmented reality is not just possible, 655 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: it's happening. I mean you get things like the Microsoft 656 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: Hollow lens that is going to open up opportunities for 657 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: app developers to create apps that are going to be 658 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: ADS supported, just as the apps on your smartphone often 659 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: are ADS supported. If you've ever played any game on 660 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: your smartphone, chances are you've encountered one that is supported 661 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: by ADS, and in order to progress in the game, 662 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: you need to watch an AD first. Same thing is 663 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: gonna happen with augmented reality. For a future in which 664 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 1: the entire reality is ADS supported, I think that's going 665 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: to be that's more far fetched, but devices that that 666 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 1: react to us and listen to us. You can guarantee 667 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: that they are going to go into feeding more data 668 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: two services like Amazon or Google that will build out 669 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: even more robust dossiers if you prefer on the individuals 670 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: within that home. Because there's an adage it goes if 671 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: the service you are using is free, you are the product. 672 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: You are the thing that is being sold. Google is 673 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: not really a search company. Google is an ad company. 674 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: And Google is able to sell information based upon the 675 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: searches that numerous individuals over billions of different searches have provided. 676 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can 677 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: be a bad thing, and certainly it's the it's the 678 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: sort of stuff that if someone had the intent to 679 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: misuse it, they could do a great deal of harm 680 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: or um end up being personally very damaging to a 681 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: particular individual. It's not likely to happen. It's not like 682 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: it would behoof whichever company it is that owns that 683 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: data to allow it to happen. But it's possible because 684 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: information is power. I mean, if you have a lot 685 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: of information about somebody, you can use that information either 686 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: to help that person or you could do lots of harm. 687 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 1: To that person. Um So, really, I think the worry 688 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: is making sure that the companies that are gathering all 689 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: this information are practicing good stewardship, that they're being responsible 690 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: with it. Uh. But there's nothing forcing them to do 691 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: that other than their own self interests. But self interest 692 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,439 Speaker 1: is power, I agree. So I'm saying like, as soon 693 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: as their behavior affects the bottom line, only then will 694 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: they change. But I would argue that we contribute to 695 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: this system willingly because it's the cost of doing business, 696 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: the cost of having all the benefits and joys associated 697 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: with being able to be on the Internet all the time, 698 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 1: and having free email accounts and free web hosting and this, 699 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 1: that and the other, I mean free podcasts. We we 700 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: love this stuff, you know well. And and with things 701 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,359 Speaker 1: like social media platforms like Facebook and and the fact, 702 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: you know, people talk about oversharing here I say, we're 703 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: addicted to this stuff. Well, for me, Facebook is the 704 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: primary way that I interact with my friends now because 705 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: I have so little time, my friends have so little time. 706 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: We don't live close to one another. Uh. That taking 707 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: the time to to make taking time to make time, 708 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: boyam son of a preacher man to take that time 709 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,320 Speaker 1: so that we can have personal interactions in a real space. 710 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: It's getting increasingly difficult. So Facebook is a legitimately valuable 711 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,720 Speaker 1: tool for me to stay in touch and learn what's 712 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: going on with my friends lives. You know who's having 713 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: who just got a new job, who's getting married, you 714 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: know who's having a kid. That kind of stuff. That's 715 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: really important for me to to be able to keep 716 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: up with that. And I love being able to share 717 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: in those experiences, even vicariously through this platform. And so 718 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: I willingly engage in using Facebook because it does have 719 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: a value to me. Um. But I know that the 720 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: upside of that is I'm feeding more and more information 721 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: about myself in the process. And you have to ask 722 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: your question yourself, a question, is what I'm getting out 723 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: of it worth the fact that I'm giving up some 724 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: of myself in return, exactly? And that is a question 725 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: that we would like you to answer for us, ladies 726 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Today, we are going to skip our shout 727 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: out corner because we wanted to spend some more time 728 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: exploring this question. You can check out that live broadcast 729 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier at the front of our podcast, where 730 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: you can see Matt Jonathan Noel and I talking about 731 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: some other aspects of this that maybe we didn't quite 732 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: touch on in the same so I was worried that 733 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,439 Speaker 1: when we did that that we were leaving all around 734 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: the table and we're going to skip it on the podcast. 735 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: We ended up kind of going in a little bit 736 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 1: different directions. So definitely a good supplement for this episode. 737 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: So do check it out. And while you're on the internet, Hey, hey, 738 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,839 Speaker 1: why not like and follow us on Twitter and Facebook? 739 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: What a you're You're already You're already on a list. 740 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: It's we're conspiracy stuff at both of those. Jonathan. For 741 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: the people who have not heard your appearances on earlier 742 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: episodes or our appearances on earlier episodes of your show, 743 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: where's the best place for people to find you? Well, 744 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,720 Speaker 1: I mean if you love the tech world. Tech Stuff 745 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 1: is the podcast that is going on eight years now 746 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: and more than seven hundred fifty episodes of all things tech, 747 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: so you can go check that out. We've done everything 748 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: from how specific technology works, to deep profiles of big 749 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: tech companies to explanations of important events in tech like 750 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: the video game crash of three. So that would be 751 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: my first suggestion, and of course, you can check out 752 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,879 Speaker 1: things like now dot how stuff works dot com, which 753 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: is our more news oriented website. I write and shoot 754 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: video for that constantly, so you can check me out there, uh, 755 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: tons of other places, but you just need to explore 756 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,240 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. If you love this show 757 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: and you love learning, and you love knowing what really 758 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: makes the universe tick, you gotta go to how stuff 759 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: works dot com. Well said, I will also mention you 760 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,879 Speaker 1: can catch Jonathan as we said, I'm forward thinking and 761 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: brain stuff audio and video. If you like the future, 762 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: you'll love those things. And speaking of the future, our 763 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,240 Speaker 1: best suggestions for upcoming episodes come from you, ladies and gentlemen. 764 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: So let us know on Twitter, let us know on Facebook. 765 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: Answer the question Jonathan posed at the end, which I 766 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:46,919 Speaker 1: think verges on philosophy and matters of cosmic import. We 767 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: want to hear your answer. We want to hear your 768 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: recommendations for things we should cover. If you don't want 769 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: to mess around with the social media, then after this 770 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,439 Speaker 1: episode we get it. I'm I'm rethinking some things as well. Yeah, 771 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: so you can instead of uh playing out there on 772 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: the on the vast social sUAS of the Internet, you 773 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: can email us directly. We are conspiracy at how stuff 774 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:27,320 Speaker 1: works dot com.