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Speaker 1: Welcome with pathology with doctor Pria. Y'all tonight, we have

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Speaker 1: got an unusual case. It is a poisoning where Marcy Oglesby,

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Speaker 1: fifty three years old, poisoned her ex cop boyfriend with

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Speaker 1: eye drops.

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Speaker 2: Now she has been.

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Speaker 1: Found guilty of first degree murder, attempted first degree murder,

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Speaker 1: and aggravated battery for the death of the retired police

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Speaker 1: chief Richard Rick Young. Now Oglesby poisoned Young with over

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Speaker 1: the counter eye drops, just regular eye drops that she

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Speaker 1: mixed into his food and his drinks starting in the

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Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty one until his death in November

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Rick Young was seventy one years old.

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Speaker 1: She watched him suffer and I'm going to get doctor

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Speaker 1: pre in here because i want to hear how this

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Speaker 1: life long public servant was murdered in a horrific way.

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Speaker 1: And y'all, she drove right across the street and hid

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Speaker 1: his body in a storage unit. Then when they found

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Speaker 1: him and did the autopsy, of course toxicology comes back

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Speaker 1: with high levels of tetrahydro zoline. So his body was

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Speaker 1: found October of twenty twenty two. So doctor Pria, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna need you to jump in here and help me

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Speaker 1: understand some things.

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Speaker 3: I should not laugh, but we're just gonna put it

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Speaker 3: out there that the best legal advice would be to

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Speaker 3: leave him or see a divorce attorney. Please don't take

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Speaker 3: this as any endorsement, right, We're talking about a very

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Speaker 3: atypical case, right, this is quite complex.

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Speaker 1: It is complex, and you know, we've all heard about

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Speaker 1: people putting eye drops in somebody's drink, and this to me,

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Speaker 1: you said something extraordinary off air before we started recording.

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Speaker 1: And what did you say about eye drops in general,

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Speaker 1: just over the counter eye drops that nobody's doing. What?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I want to back up, like this is

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Speaker 3: really unusual and in my professional career, I have not

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Speaker 3: had a case. So we'll get into it. But there

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Speaker 3: has to be sort of peripheral clues that you know,

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Speaker 3: sort of give this as a candidate option for toxicology.

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Speaker 3: But it's not like on our routine panel, even though

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Speaker 3: that is a very wide range of testing for autopsy

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Speaker 3: for post mortem analysis. But I mean, because this is

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Speaker 3: what we call in medicine a zebra. It's way out there, right,

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Speaker 3: Like that's why we're talking about it. It's not a

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Speaker 3: run of the milk case. Now, what you have to

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Speaker 3: remember is that the eye drops are they're run of

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Speaker 3: the mill eye drops. Like who hasn't used eye drops? Right,

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Speaker 3: like for allergies, itchy eyes. So the biggest thing is

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Speaker 3: that the compound in them and is tetrahydrozoline. Say that

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Speaker 3: five times fast, but that you know, this is what

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Speaker 3: you can get off at any drug store shelf. It's

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Speaker 3: not controlled, which means it's not prescribed. And this is

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Speaker 3: it has effects right locally, which means you apply it

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Speaker 3: to the eye. When it's used properly, it helps your eye,

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Speaker 3: but it really doesn't get into the body. Now the

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Speaker 3: issue is it's like I said, it's not controlled or

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Speaker 3: not monitored. Right, you don't have to show your ID

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Speaker 3: to get eye drops, unlike certain other over the counter

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Speaker 3: or more controlled subs and says that may be more

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Speaker 3: routinely abused. And so you could go to any drug

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Speaker 3: store and buy ten bottles and I don't think they would.

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Speaker 3: They might look at you funny, but they're not going

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Speaker 3: to be like what are you doing with this? You

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Speaker 3: can just say I reddit gis every day and I

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Speaker 3: just go through them, right, And I mean then There's

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Speaker 3: also the fact that probably every drug store within a

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Speaker 3: certain area, you know, within the area, carries them, so

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Speaker 3: you could almost medicine shop if you will. You can

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Speaker 3: get a few from this store, if you from that,

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Speaker 3: and no one would even catch on, do you you know?

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Speaker 3: And because it was done over like months, you probably

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Speaker 3: did that if you think about it, right, she's not

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Speaker 3: going to stock up on bottles, but probably try a

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Speaker 3: little bit see how it goes. I mean, I have

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Speaker 3: no idea because I haven't seen the case file, but

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Speaker 3: I presume you try a little bit in his food

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Speaker 3: or drink to see if he even can taste it. Right,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there's like an unofficial titration or you sort

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Speaker 3: of dose it, you know, give a little see what

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Speaker 3: goes on, give a little bit more. And now I

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Speaker 3: did a literature search related to this, and it's interesting

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Speaker 3: because it has been reported, not commonly so, but you know,

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Speaker 3: every decade or two there's some depths. Poison Control probably

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Speaker 3: gets more calls about this, but we're hoping that they're

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Speaker 3: not all lethal, right, they don't all end in death.

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Speaker 3: But when it's very planned like this, it's scary. Now,

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Speaker 3: he's an older gentleman, and I don't know. I assume

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Speaker 3: just based on his age, he probably has some heart

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Speaker 3: conditions potentially, like we you know, we all do. It's

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Speaker 3: very common in that age group. And so this medicine,

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Speaker 3: what it does is when you put in your eye,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's almost undetectable in the blood. And then

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Speaker 3: but if you were to eat it, so by the

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Speaker 3: oral root like mouth to the stomach, that's when it's

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Speaker 3: really being absorbed and then accumulating in the blood and

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Speaker 3: has toxicity. So don't be scared to use them if

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Speaker 3: you use them in the right way at the right dose. Right,

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Speaker 3: But one of the papers I saw said, like if

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Speaker 3: you take even an ounce of this with like orally,

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Speaker 3: if you ingest it, you can have very significant effects.

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Speaker 3: Now what happens is like first you start feeling numbness, confusion,

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Speaker 3: You can get a little woozy, your lips can turn

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Speaker 3: blue just because you're not getting enough oxygen. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot of effects on the heart and the blood pressure.

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Speaker 3: So the blood pressure can be what we call laybile,

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Speaker 3: so up and down. And then so this drug, the

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Speaker 3: way it works is on receptors, so it binds to

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Speaker 3: certain signal pathways within the blood vessels. Okay, so that's

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Speaker 3: and these receptors are also in the heart, so that's

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Speaker 3: why it's affecting your blood pressure and your heart rate.

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Speaker 3: Things are are you know, going up and down again

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Speaker 3: that laybile blood pressure as we call it, so changing rapidly.

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Speaker 3: Your heart's going to be the signaling of your heart.

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Speaker 3: So the heart is electrical signaling that's going to be interrupted.

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Speaker 3: And some of the papers actually go into how even

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Speaker 3: with a small like a mouthful, a young girl took

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Speaker 3: a mouthful of this and basically it blocked the electrical

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Speaker 3: signals completely in her heart. So that's how I think

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Speaker 3: with suspected that it leads to death. Right, you can

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Speaker 3: get chess palpitations and then you really then basically lose

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Speaker 3: the signaling, the electrical signaling of your heart, which probably

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Speaker 3: the audience will know that you catch on like an

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Speaker 3: EKG an electric cardiogram, right, those little heartbeat. That's the

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Speaker 3: electrical signal that we're familiar with, and you know, that's

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Speaker 3: how we check it when you're alive. But obviously when

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Speaker 3: you're dead, we cannot get a rhythm stripped because it's

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Speaker 3: not present. Then we have to go to the autopsy,

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Speaker 3: which is really you know, a whole nother world.

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Speaker 1: Well, i'll tell you what's kind of resonate with me.

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Speaker 1: He's seventy one and a lot of this stuff. You'd

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Speaker 1: be like, well, my hands are a little numb or

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Speaker 1: I'm a little confused. Is something else happening? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you would be thinking, do I need to be tested

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Speaker 1: for Alzheimer's or am I having memory problems?

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think also at seventy one, if he

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Speaker 3: had some cardiac issues, right like if his chest heard

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Speaker 3: or he was having some abnormal heartbeat, he would probably

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Speaker 3: think that's age related. I think it would be very

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Speaker 3: unlikely that this would be in any kind of differential

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Speaker 3: for a treating physician, even an er doc. You really

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Speaker 3: have to know. And I mean this is what gets

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Speaker 3: into the autopsy part, right with the CSI aspect too,

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Speaker 3: which is we need the scene investigation, Like I don't

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Speaker 3: even know how this came to light because he wasn't

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Speaker 3: found at the home. He was found elsewhere, right in

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Speaker 3: the storage unit. Yeah, so he's removed from the scene.

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Speaker 3: And then the other thing I don't know, because I

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Speaker 3: don't have I'm not pretty to that information, is that

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Speaker 3: I don't know what his underlying medical conditions weren't or

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Speaker 3: what potential medications he was on for that, right, So

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Speaker 3: we have to think about that. But when they certified

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Speaker 3: as death, I assume they certified it because of this

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Speaker 3: drug being found as the main toxic. You know, he's

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Speaker 3: not doing any illicit drugs if he's likely on medications,

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Speaker 3: but those are assuming being used as prescribed, right, so

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Speaker 3: they're not they're not particularly lethal. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: there's any drug drug interactions. But because there's no normal

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Speaker 3: blood levels for this medication for the eye drops, right,

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Speaker 3: you're not supposed to take it internally, and I think,

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Speaker 3: like the reference article said that almost they're almost imperceptible

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Speaker 3: amounts detected if you'd use it at the eye level.

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Speaker 3: The eye is just it's going to get into the

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Speaker 3: eye itself, but it doesn't get into the bloodstream. It's

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Speaker 3: it's almost negligible. And so obviously we don't have any

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Speaker 3: normal levels for this drug within the blood, if that

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Speaker 3: makes sense, because you're never supposed to take it that way.

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Speaker 1: Over the five months in his food and in his drink.

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Speaker 1: How much are we talking about, I mean, does it

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Speaker 1: take a ton of it or just a few drops.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like at least one of the cases that

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Speaker 3: had a volume estimated looks like it's ten to fifteen milliliters,

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Speaker 3: which is just I mean a take, like so one

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Speaker 3: ounce is about thirty milliliters, so half an ounce to

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Speaker 3: announce max. I mean. So the issue becomes like, what

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Speaker 3: is she mixing it in with? Right, So I don't

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Speaker 3: know what this taste like. I assume it might have

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Speaker 3: a bitter taste as usual medications do. But if she's

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Speaker 3: doing it in a I mean a cocktail or something,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. I'm just speculating completely right,

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Speaker 3: or very flavorful food. I mean, it could be split

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Speaker 3: tween meals as well. Right, it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 3: one sitting, if you will, right, it could be a

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Speaker 3: drink and then it could be a snack and then

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Speaker 3: an hour later, because some of the literature does say

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Speaker 3: that you can get extended effects like hours on end

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Speaker 3: with it, So it could build up in the body

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Speaker 3: and then cause that kind of heart trouble and likely

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Speaker 3: he probably had a weakened heart just because of his

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Speaker 3: age as well.

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Speaker 1: So when you're doing the autopsy, and this is before

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Speaker 1: the toxicology comes back. Are there signs of a poisoning?

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Speaker 1: Are there things you're looking at?

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Speaker 3: Sure? Absolutely, So I just wanted to clarify he's an

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Speaker 3: adult male too, So God forbid a child gets a

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Speaker 3: hold of this, then we're having like it takes a

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Speaker 3: lot less okay. So in children it could be like

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Speaker 3: half a teaspoon to like one to two teaspoons, like

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Speaker 3: very little, okay. In an adult it's going to be

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Speaker 3: more than that. But remember just a few tablespoons could

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Speaker 3: be it. Now, what's happening is this is going to

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Speaker 3: tighten his blood vessels. That's how it works, put strain

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Speaker 3: on the heart. But it can also you know, affect

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Speaker 3: the heart. But all of this we're not going to

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Speaker 3: see the electrical activity at autopsy, right the gentleman's already passed.

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Speaker 3: So what we really need to do this is a

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Speaker 3: very important sort of what I like to say, like

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Speaker 3: holistic approach. Okay, So the scene would be very very important,

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Speaker 3: meaning like they would get a search warrant for her house,

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Speaker 3: and I mean obviously him being found in a storage

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Speaker 3: unit raises the red flag if he's deceased at home.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if this would even come to light, do

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Speaker 3: you follow that if he she's deceased in bed, but

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Speaker 3: the fact that he was found in such untoward circumstances

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Speaker 3: that is obviously like a red flag right there, which

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Speaker 3: should then lead to further investigations. So in some ways,

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Speaker 3: her like the way she disposed of the body is

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Speaker 3: was her downfall in a way. And then what we

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Speaker 3: really need to do is look at the scene, like,

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Speaker 3: are there's you know, I've had let's say, drug abuse

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Speaker 3: cases where there's needles on the scene or huffing cases

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Speaker 3: where there's multiple cans in the trash can, right, So

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Speaker 3: the scene is very important to lead us to what

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Speaker 3: candidate drugs may be. And so if there's an excess

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Speaker 3: number which I would think more than one, maybe two

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Speaker 3: bottles of eye drops, right, or eye drop containers, maybe

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Speaker 3: they're used, especially if they're in the trash or she

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Speaker 3: stored them somewhere or has them in the medicine cabinet,

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Speaker 3: then you know, that becomes really important. And then I

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Speaker 3: don't know what, if anything, they were able to get

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Speaker 3: from her. Now she's only fifty, so there's a considerable

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Speaker 3: age difference between them two, so I don't know how

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Speaker 3: able bodied he was compared to her, right, is she

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Speaker 3: caring for him? Is she giving him his medication?

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Speaker 2: Well, they had been together for thirty years.

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Speaker 3: Right, but now he's older too, right, so I don't

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Speaker 3: know if he's more dependent on her. Maybe that kind

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Speaker 3: of history also means that he trusts her in a

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Speaker 3: very you know, very trusting fashion. And then whatever she's

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Speaker 3: feeding him or giving him, right, Like, he's not even questioning.

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Speaker 3: And seventy one could be young, but let's not forget

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Speaker 3: there could be some dementia. I don't it was not mentioned,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I don't know how sharp he was mentally,

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Speaker 3: like how easy it was to poison him as well? Like,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is a very we think about the

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Speaker 3: elderly as a susceptible population, right, the extremes of age,

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Speaker 3: so we think about kids and elderly. So I want

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Speaker 3: to just put that out there too. If he trusts her,

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Speaker 3: she's probably doing a lot for him. He's retired, right,

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Speaker 3: he's not actively working anymore, and so probably more dependent

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Speaker 3: on her than he was in the past too, right

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Speaker 3: when he was fully working in the police force, so

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Speaker 3: all of that has to come into play. And then

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Speaker 3: he was police in the town that they were living in.

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Speaker 3: How awkward is that because his staff members, right, he's

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Speaker 3: former chief, are now investigating his death, and they probably

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Speaker 3: know her from his prior career because they were together

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Speaker 3: so long. So it makes her a very interesting like

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Speaker 3: police dynamic too. Write how much can they press her

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Speaker 3: without crossing the line, or maybe she trusts them and

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Speaker 3: maybe that makes her volunteer the information. I don't really

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Speaker 3: know that whole. I think Scott Duffy would be the

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Speaker 3: one to ask about this, right, but he talked about

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Speaker 3: the different interrogation techniques, which I think would be very

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Speaker 3: useful here. And all of that then comes back to

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Speaker 3: me at autopsy when we do a post mortem panel,

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Speaker 3: collecting blood and urine and eye fluid, all this for testing.

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Speaker 3: But there may be three three hundred things that we're

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Speaker 3: testing for, but those are more common drugs if you will,

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Speaker 3: and medications. Okay, so this is not even a common

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Speaker 3: blood medication, right, so like that we should find post mortem,

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Speaker 3: even in therapeutic levels. And so what they did they

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Speaker 3: did targeted testing, which means someone they had a clue

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Speaker 3: that this was an issue, I presume based on investigation

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Speaker 3: because it's not going to leave any kind of trace.

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Speaker 3: So some ingestions at autopsy. Let me back up, like

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Speaker 3: any kind of overdose can lead to fluid in the lungs.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if the heart would show any subtle

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Speaker 3: changes with being stressed from the blood pressure changes and

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Speaker 3: the heart rate changes. But the biggest thing is I

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Speaker 3: would almost be able to discount that because of his age, right,

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Speaker 3: probably underlying heart disease, although again that speculation in this

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Speaker 3: case without having the report, then I would be like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: he has fluid in his lungs. That's nonspecific, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't think there would be anything at autopsy that

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Speaker 3: would be leading to this. Okay, I've had people in

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Speaker 3: just lie you know, cleaners corrosive materials that I mean

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Speaker 3: that literally turns their stomach black or erodes a hole

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Speaker 3: in it, right, But this is not that kind of material.

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Speaker 3: This is a very small volume. So even when we

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Speaker 3: look at the stomach contents, if he has food in it,

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Speaker 3: it's not like this is going to be gritty or

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Speaker 3: pills that would stand out when I look at the

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Speaker 3: stomach content. So really it would just be the toxicology

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Speaker 3: that's really the key. And again then what the targeted

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Speaker 3: testing is you have to say okay, I'm looking for tetrahydrozoline,

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Speaker 3: and then send out the blood and you're in for that, okay.

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Speaker 3: And that's what's called targeted testing, meaning I want you

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Speaker 3: to prioritize this detection even though it's an unusual compound,

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Speaker 3: because I have X, Y Z, you know, clues about it.

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Speaker 3: So really, this is where it's a combined approach. It

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Speaker 3: can't just be autopsy and isolation. Right. I always say,

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Speaker 3: we don't practice in a black box because this could

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Speaker 3: be any kind of drug overdose. Do you understand it? Really?

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Speaker 3: Or it doesn't even have to be a drug overdose.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the findings are nonspecific, Like I said,

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Speaker 3: the pulmonary a demon which is fluid in the lungs

306
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Speaker 3: with a thunk it right, unless there's a clue.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know some poisons, you know, turn the skin

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Speaker 1: a different color, affect the heart, affect the eyes. So

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Speaker 1: with this really, without the toxicology, you wouldn't know it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So this medicine is there to shrink blood vessels.

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Speaker 3: That's why it takes the redness out of the eyes, right,

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Speaker 3: That's why people are using these eye drops. There's no normal.

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Speaker 3: This is not a normal medication to have within the

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Speaker 3: body with that though, I mean, he's seventy one. His

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Speaker 3: heart stops. It is what it I mean, you know,

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Speaker 3: in some ways it is what it is that that

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Speaker 3: could be an appropriate cause of death, cardiac cause, just

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Speaker 3: because of his age, correct, like even without any medication

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Speaker 3: toxicity and then and so you know, you sort of

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Speaker 3: have to look at the horses versus the zebras, Right,

321
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Speaker 3: what happens when you're older, Okay, you get cardiac disease

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Speaker 3: and that's why the heart stops. I mean, that is

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Speaker 3: the number one cause of death in the country. Even

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Speaker 3: in medical examiners, right, we see natural deaths are still

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Speaker 3: the the things we see frequent, most frequently, but they

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Speaker 3: appear unexplained. Okay, So this is a seventy one year

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Speaker 3: old gentleman who passed away. The weird presenting part of

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Speaker 3: it was that he's found in the storage unit. And

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Speaker 3: I don't know how like is that their storage unit

330
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Speaker 3: or that he was working at. Could she have played

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Speaker 3: that off like, oh, he was doing something in the

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Speaker 3: storage unit and died. But I think it was for

333
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Speaker 3: a few days that he wasn't found, right, or there

334
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Speaker 3: was a delay, So I mean, why wouldn't you have

335
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Speaker 3: reported him missing type thing, especially the advanced age, and

336
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Speaker 3: then you have to think, okay, what's going on? And

337
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 3: she had I mean, there's a significant age difference, and

338
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 3: she looked rather angry in her mugshot, so there had

339
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Speaker 3: to be some sort of backstory as to why she,

340
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Speaker 3: after thirty years or twenty years whatever they were together,

341
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Speaker 3: targeted him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's reporting that he died or they let me

343
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Speaker 1: be clear, they're reporting he died in November of twenty

344
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Speaker 1: twenty one, but he wasn't found till October seventh, twenty

345
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Speaker 1: twenty two.

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Speaker 3: Oh, so he was gone. Yeah, so that's that's the

347
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Speaker 3: red flag.

348
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Speaker 1: So let me ask you, if you're called to testify

349
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Speaker 1: and they want you to tell them what would have

350
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Speaker 1: been going on with him?

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Speaker 2: What are some of the common effects, side effects.

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Speaker 1: Causes, Because I know the prosecution said he suffered, but

353
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Speaker 1: can you explain what would have been happening, what he

354
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Speaker 1: would have been going through.

355
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Speaker 3: Part of it is like probably feeling nauseated, you know,

356
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 3: having some trouble breathing some you know, maybe he even

357
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: threw up once or twice. But that's very nonspecific. So

358
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Speaker 3: who's going to think, oh, my loving girlfriend is trying

359
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Speaker 3: to poison me. Right, So it's only once this gets

360
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 3: to a higher concentration, and I I don't know if

361
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Speaker 3: it was just I doubt if it was just one event,

362
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Speaker 3: but maybe it could be. Right, it sounds like it

363
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Speaker 3: was cumulative, like she started adding it and adding it

364
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 3: and adding it. So he could have chest pain, he

365
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 3: could have a headache, he could have you know, difficulty breathing.

366
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 3: So all of these are very non specific. So what's

367
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Speaker 3: gonna think? Okay, he is being poisoned, But again that's

368
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Speaker 3: where he's becoming uncomfortable. As we get higher doses, that

369
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 3: that's when he's going to have significant like effects like

370
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: the blood pressure changes, the stress on the heart, et cetera.

371
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Speaker 3: So I just found an interesting sort of quantification. So

372
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Speaker 3: a typical bottle contains fifteen to thirty milliliters of solution,

373
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Speaker 3: So like an ounce right half an ounce to an

374
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Speaker 3: ounce and then putting two drops in both eyes six

375
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 3: times a day would be one millileter, So you get

376
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 3: that's why you get like a month out of it?

377
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: Does that make sense? If you use it six times

378
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: a day, you get like what like a few weeks

379
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 3: to a month out of the bottle. So I mean

380
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: if it only takes a mouthful, she could easily squeeze

381
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: like one or two bottles and cause significant harm to him.

382
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 3: If she adds it to his water multiple times a day,

383
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 3: food multiple times a day, and over even a few days,

384
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: like two to three days, she could really get that level.

385
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 3: That's very that's toxic to him. So what starts happening

386
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 3: is he gets sleepy, he gets slower breathing, slower heart rate,

387
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 3: and then he goes coma like he dies comatose. So

388
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: you can have a seizure or have cardiac arrhythmias like

389
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 3: I was saying, like the electrical signals are being blocked,

390
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 3: which is called heart block. That's been reported in the

391
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 3: literature from this toxicity. Now remember this, we're just reporting

392
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 3: cases that have that we know of, and luckily this

393
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: is not prolific, you know, it's just been isolated cases.

394
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 3: So we're just drawing from the toxicities that people have

395
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: reported or now we've seen at autopsy, like the drug levels,

396
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: there's no established normal drug level. Nothing is normal. So

397
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 3: when we say, okay, this is the number we have

398
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 3: in him, this is the number we have in her.

399
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: I mean that's just luckily scattered numbers. There's not like

400
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: a case series or no one studied it in humans

401
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: because it is so poisonous. If there's no safe way

402
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 3: of doing that, well.

403
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: You know. Again, the frightening thing for me is a

404
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: lot of these symptoms could easily be explained ignored. I mean,

405
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: I have a neighbor she's seventy six, and she was

406
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: real disoriented not too long ago, and it was because

407
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: she was dehydrated.

408
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

409
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: Well, if you've got somebody nauseated.

410
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: And confused, I mean you might just write it off

411
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: like honey, go lay down, let me make you some

412
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: you know, gatorade and some souper.

413
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 3: There's some gatorade with some mindreads in it.

414
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't keep drinking the gatorade, right.

415
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 3: But you think about it. Something like a gatorade or

416
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: a soda that has flavor would help mask the additive,

417
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: Like you know, pure water maybe harder, but sometimes I

418
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: drink electrolyte water, gatorade, you know, when I'm exercising. Whatever

419
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 3: add flavor, even lemon water, right or lemonade. Those kinds

420
00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 3: of flavors would probably mask a small amount of drug additive.

421
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: So it's so toxic that a small amount will.

422
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: Do you in, and especially if you're getting it three

423
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: or four times a day with everything she makes you.

424
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: You know, even if she's lying to him, Let's say

425
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: she even said, oh, maybe you have COVID. If he

426
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: said something tasted weird, she may have a ready answer.

427
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: And I think she did respond that he died of COVID, right,

428
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 3: that was her theory or that was her eyes.

429
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: But I'm saying she could have been lying to him.

430
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: Oh totally, your taste is changing because you have COVID.

431
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 3: It tastes bitter, not because you are, not because I'm

432
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 3: poisoning you, because you know it's COVID the thick of things, right,

433
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: And I mean this was years ago, when I mean

434
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: COVID is still around, we can't ignore it. But that

435
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 3: was definitely when the elderly were very, very susceptible, right

436
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 3: in any passing of getting the infection.

437
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: Excuse me, well, doctor, I'll tell you. I always learn

438
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: so much. And I was fascinated because I thought, well,

439
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: when she gets to autopsy and was this person up,

440
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: She'll look right at the heart or the liver or

441
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: the kidneys or something and be able to tell.

442
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: So now we know.

443
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 3: There you go.

444
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, I.

445
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: Appreciate you, and you know you're just such a natural teacher.

446
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: But we do.

447
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: We learn something every week, so I just appreciate you

448
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 1: so much.

449
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, just good. It's not a face that I knew about.

450
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: I tell people, people always ask me, do you follow

451
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 3: these pieces? I only follow them or look them up

452
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: when I'm asked about them. So I ask others in

453
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: the audience to keep bringing them because you know, it

454
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: makes me a better pathologist. And if something starts tasting weird,

455
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 3: maybe I'll blame David.

456
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: Y'all pay attention now. I mean, after thirty years, seriously,

457
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: that's what's going to.

458
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: Be the end.

459
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: That's just anyway, sad and pitiful, but thank you, thank

460
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: you doctor, and I will talk to you soon.

461
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: Yes, good night,