Speaker 1: Hey, that folks is Friday, February thirteenth, and there is
Speaker 1: now a forensic artist sketch of the possible suspect in
Speaker 1: the Guthrie case. But police didn't ask for it. With
Speaker 1: that welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. They
Speaker 1: didn't ask for it, Robes. But it's coming from a
Speaker 1: woman that we have to pay attention to. But let
Speaker 1: me before we get into her background, what did you
Speaker 1: think about this story? To hear there's a sketch, first
Speaker 1: of all, piques your interest. It's not from police, but
Speaker 1: it seems to add to the nature of this case
Speaker 1: to where there's nothing official and some things are just bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yes, you're right. This fits with the theme of the
Speaker 2: entire past thirteen days, where nothing can be explained and
Speaker 2: nothing can be anticipated, and yet you kind of have
Speaker 2: to consider it all because that's where we are and
Speaker 2: look to have a sketch of a potential suspect based
Speaker 2: on what we see in the surveillance camera and what
Speaker 2: she knows I guess, based on her expertise how to
Speaker 2: maybe kind of see through a ski mask. I don't
Speaker 2: know how she did it or how she does it,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't help but wondering after looking at it,
Speaker 2: if this won't be a huge help or a massive distraction.
Speaker 1: There it is. That was my next thing, because folks
Speaker 1: says you're listening to us is early morning here on Friday.
Speaker 1: This sketch artist out of Houston put this together yesterday.
Speaker 1: It started getting a little pick up in the Houston area.
Speaker 1: But robes, I imagine one authorities might take a look
Speaker 1: at this or my comment on this a rose. This
Speaker 1: is probably going to start making some rounds today.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. She has a four decade long career and
Speaker 2: has some pretty incredible bona fides, like where you can say, wow,
Speaker 2: this isn't just some random person who says, let me
Speaker 2: try to sketch something. This is someone who knows what
Speaker 2: she's doing and has been credited for solving cases ropes.
Speaker 1: She has one at least line on her resume I
Speaker 1: didn't even know existed. We talk about it all over
Speaker 1: the years. If you've worked in the industry or you
Speaker 1: just see randomly as a citizen. They are all kinds
Speaker 1: of Guinness records. Guinness record for a big waffle, a
Speaker 1: Guinness record for the tallest ladder are the most random things. Ever.
Speaker 1: This woman is the Guinness World Record holder for the
Speaker 1: most successful forensic artists ever. That's kind of a legit title.
Speaker 2: It's impressive. Yeah, I don't know what the competition was like,
Speaker 2: but it seems like she was basically ahead of the
Speaker 2: rest in a field of her own, in a class
Speaker 2: of her own, in a field of forensic sketch artists.
Speaker 1: So this is why, folks, a sketch is not just
Speaker 1: something random by some random someone. This is a woman
Speaker 1: with credentials and has convictions to back it up. We
Speaker 1: are who we are talking about as a woman by
Speaker 1: the name of Lois Gibson. That's not some name. A
Speaker 1: lot of people know, certainly the Hue scenario. They do
Speaker 1: because she's been at it in the Houston area for
Speaker 1: four decades with the police department. She just retired in
Speaker 1: twenty and twenty one. Her record here robes more than
Speaker 1: five thousand, eighty nine sketches. Excuse me, that's an exact number.
Speaker 1: When she retired, she said, I've done five thousand and
Speaker 1: eighty nine sketches. Approximately thirteen hundred have been positively idd
Speaker 1: in cases, and she has over a thousand convictions to
Speaker 1: her name. That is impressive. So when you hear that
Speaker 1: woman who has done all of that is a Guinness
Speaker 1: World record holder, and you hear that, you know what,
Speaker 1: nobody asked me, But I want to help the Guthrie
Speaker 1: family too. I looked at those surveillance images robes and
Speaker 1: that's what she's basing it on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, So this is something that
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are going to be
Speaker 2: clicking on today. They're going to be looking at this
Speaker 2: sketch as we did. And if it sparks one person
Speaker 2: to say I think I know who that is, they
Speaker 2: can piece together perhaps as what they know about this person.
Speaker 2: This could lead to a break in the case. People
Speaker 2: need to visualize stuff. They need to be able to
Speaker 2: see things for themselves to be able to try to
Speaker 2: put certain clues in place, and that's what police have
Speaker 2: been asking neighbors, people who know people in the area
Speaker 2: to be considering things they wouldn't have otherwise. They need
Speaker 2: someone to recognize this person, and what better way to
Speaker 2: do it than with a sketch.
Speaker 1: So here's the problem. Police are going to have to
Speaker 1: say something. They're gonna have to say, yes, keep an
Speaker 1: eye out for this guy or ignore this because there
Speaker 1: is now an image out there that quite frankly robes
Speaker 1: looks a little general.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you what I think the sketch looked like.
Speaker 2: I think the sketch looked almost identical to Carlos the
Speaker 2: door Dash delivery driver, Ibby.
Speaker 1: Dan's it looks like Sweetheart. But I heard a comment
Speaker 1: from someone say it looks like Marco Rubio with the goatee.
Speaker 1: Like it looks like such a general appear. It's of
Speaker 1: a brown skin, maybe Latino man. And look, there are
Speaker 1: some specific and somebody might see that immediately go wow,
Speaker 1: that's da da da. But they're gonna have to say
Speaker 1: public look out for this guy or don't because if
Speaker 1: they start getting calls say hey, I've seen the sketch
Speaker 1: and I know this guy you talk about tips, they're
Speaker 1: gonna be coming in from everywhere.
Speaker 2: Yes, because I will say it's it's interesting looking at
Speaker 2: the sketch, it does seem like someone who you would
Speaker 2: know like it does it it? Actually? I know it
Speaker 2: does look like a lot of men of Latino descent,
Speaker 2: but there is something specific, and I would say it's
Speaker 2: in the eyes. And the cool thing about this sketch
Speaker 2: is that is the one thing she actually could look
Speaker 2: at in this surveillance video, we do have a very
Speaker 2: good look at the suspect on the front porch of
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthri. His eyes and they are large, or at
Speaker 2: least they seemed large in the surveillance video and the
Speaker 2: way she put it in his face. They are a
Speaker 2: distinguishing feature, and that you know, you know people through
Speaker 2: their eyes. You recognize people in their eyes, So that
Speaker 2: that is the one thing that maybe gives me hope
Speaker 2: that she did have that to work off of, and
Speaker 2: they are an exceptional part of the sketch where if
Speaker 2: you know someone and you know those eyes, this could
Speaker 2: potentially lead to a break and she's had that happen
Speaker 2: before in her past work, so it's kind of it's exciting. Look,
Speaker 2: we haven't had a lot of things to go on,
Speaker 2: and to have something like this as a possibility could
Speaker 2: be perhaps an accelerant to figuring out this case.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't we assume that authorities already had, like they had
Speaker 1: to have been working on something like this behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't like it or think it was enough
Speaker 1: to put out there. They didn't want to maybe do
Speaker 1: something like this based on somebody's opinion of what someone
Speaker 1: looks like under a mask. I don't I have to
Speaker 1: think they were going after an avenue like this.
Speaker 2: Possibly, but it's and you pointed this out, It's not
Speaker 2: just somebody, this is the person. This is the skeedule
Speaker 2: artists that you would lean on. It would appear if
Speaker 2: you were to lean on a sketch artist at all.
Speaker 1: And she absolutely did say, like you said, the features
Speaker 1: that you absolutely can see. She says she did base
Speaker 1: it on this. She did try to qualify and said
Speaker 1: I guessed, she said, this is an her Facebook statement.
Speaker 1: I guessed that the parts of the face covered with
Speaker 1: the ski mask on the Nancy Guthrie kidnapping suspect. I
Speaker 1: use surveillance photos shown I spent forty three years at
Speaker 1: a job trying to help detective with similar photos. Only
Speaker 1: things somewhat sure are eyes and part of the lips
Speaker 1: and mustache. I'll take the hit if I'm drastically wrong.
Speaker 1: Don't criticize. Do your own version. Is how she left it.
Speaker 1: But this is I mean, Robes, she's the real I
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a random artist or a random
Speaker 1: I don't know Robes because it's her and her background
Speaker 1: that we have been back deep diving and researching because
Speaker 1: it's her. How can we dismiss the photo? How can
Speaker 1: police dismiss the photo? But can this cause chaos? Because
Speaker 1: everybody in the country if they start looking for a
Speaker 1: guy the police say is not the guy? What does
Speaker 1: this do to the case?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that's the concern, and I think that's
Speaker 2: why she put all of those qualifiers in her Facebook post.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the fact that she's trying to do something.
Speaker 2: She has a skill set that's been recognized, that's been effective,
Speaker 2: that has helped families, and you can tell based on
Speaker 2: we looked at some prior interviews she's done, she is
Speaker 2: a kind hearted person who wants to help, and so
Speaker 2: I do appreciate that she she put I guessed at
Speaker 2: parts of the face covered with the sche masks, and
Speaker 2: she put guests in all caps, like she just wants
Speaker 2: to make sure. Hey, I'm not saying this is the person,
Speaker 2: but this could be the person, and based on my experience,
Speaker 2: this could be the direction we should be headed in
Speaker 2: terms of who we're looking for. But she she I
Speaker 2: like that said she's the only thing she's somewhat sure of.
Speaker 2: That's funny. That's a funny statement, but she's just being honest.
Speaker 1: And this is stuff she's had to work on before.
Speaker 1: And usually she says roles and forensics and artists is
Speaker 1: what they do. They go on people's memories. So she
Speaker 1: actually has more to go on, at least visually, than
Speaker 1: she's used to doing. It is so impressive and the
Speaker 1: reason she's doing this, there are a lot of people
Speaker 1: in this country who wish they could just pick up
Speaker 1: the phone and make the Guthrie family pain go away
Speaker 1: and Nancy Guthrie be back home. Everybody wants to help.
Speaker 1: Her comment here was that I did this because I
Speaker 1: couldn't stop myself. I just couldn't stop myself. I wanted
Speaker 1: to help. I felt the pain. And that's word there,
Speaker 1: I felt the pain. That statement is more real than
Speaker 1: you can imagine. Stay here, we'll explain now the backstory
Speaker 1: on this Guinness World Record holder for forensic artists and
Speaker 1: why she is so good at her job. It comes
Speaker 1: from a painful experience decades ago. Stay here, all right,
Speaker 1: We continue here on Amy and TJ. On this Friday,
Speaker 1: February thirteenth, an artist sketch is floating around potential suspect
Speaker 1: in the Nancy Guthrie case. But rodes this is not
Speaker 1: an official sketch, but I believe it's gonna get around
Speaker 1: today and people are already trying to piece things together.
Speaker 1: They're looking at the sketch and then comparing it to
Speaker 1: surveillance videos that have been shown around the area Tucson.
Speaker 1: They said, oh, it kind of looks like that guy.
Speaker 1: And then you saw it and said, it kind of
Speaker 1: looks like the DoorDash guy who got arrested or excuse me,
Speaker 1: detained and released.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, actually because I happened to just see the
Speaker 2: sketch and then he was in an adjacent article and
Speaker 2: I looked at the two of them side by side
Speaker 2: and thought she if she were trying to sketch him,
Speaker 2: she kind of nailed it. But no, it does look
Speaker 2: like the person They detained briefly, and it was reported
Speaker 2: that part of the reason why that DoorDash driver was
Speaker 2: detained was because his eyes matched the eyes in that
Speaker 2: surveillance video. And that is the one thing you can
Speaker 2: see clearly. You can see the suspect's eyes, you can
Speaker 2: see his lips, and you can see he has a mustache.
Speaker 2: Don't know if it's a goatee, don't know if it's
Speaker 2: a full beard. She took some obvious liberty she had
Speaker 2: to take with his hair and his facial hair, but
Speaker 2: she knows his build and wait, so to speak, so
Speaker 2: she can kind of fill out his face a certain
Speaker 2: way and with the eyes look, it's possible that she
Speaker 2: could spark some tip that could lead to the guy.
Speaker 2: You never know, and certainly it's happened before. But I
Speaker 2: did appreciate her talking about it, and you could tell
Speaker 2: when she was speaking about why she did this, why
Speaker 2: she stepped up and decided to draw this sketch without
Speaker 2: police asking her to. She has not only spent almost
Speaker 2: four decades with people who have survived or have been
Speaker 2: a part of violent crimes, trying to help solf cases,
Speaker 2: she herself has been at the center of one.
Speaker 1: You know, you make a good point that I read
Speaker 1: so many of her comments and then you see video
Speaker 1: of her making those comments. She does she comes across
Speaker 1: totally different, a like her heart is in it, like
Speaker 1: a very sweet lady. And two, yes, your point ropes
Speaker 1: is because it comes from a place in her twenties
Speaker 1: to twenty one years old out in La wanting to
Speaker 1: be a dancer, wanted to be an actress. She was raped, beaten, tortured,
Speaker 1: left for dead by a guy who was later caught
Speaker 1: and was a serial rapist and murder out there in California.
Speaker 1: She survived that, moved back to Texas, started working as
Speaker 1: an artist on the street, drawing sketches for like tourists
Speaker 1: and things like that. And then she said she forced
Speaker 1: herself onto the Houston PD. She said, there was resistance
Speaker 1: and like, how can you help us? But she did
Speaker 1: a sketch that was a crappy sketch. It was her
Speaker 1: first case, crappy sketch that caught a murderer. And when
Speaker 1: she realized the power she had, and she spent the
Speaker 1: next forty years robes getting back at the guy who
Speaker 1: raped and beat her, is what she said, forty years
Speaker 1: getting back at him with a sketch at a time,
Speaker 1: by putting them behind scenes. And she called them these
Speaker 1: aren't the greatest pieces of art in the world. And
Speaker 1: she said, when I realized that I was addicted. I'm
Speaker 1: addicted to putting people behind bars, I just got chills.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, when you have something personal like that
Speaker 2: that's so transformational and then you can use that for
Speaker 2: good and that's what she realized she could do. That's
Speaker 2: just such a cool story. And you know what, I
Speaker 2: think you found this story this morning and we've been
Speaker 2: googling it. I am with you. I think this is
Speaker 2: going to This sketch that she has created is going
Speaker 2: to catch fire today. I think if you're waking up
Speaker 2: and you're listening to this, go look at the sketch
Speaker 2: and you can start to see because it's not just oh,
Speaker 2: some random person put out a sketch. It's the country's
Speaker 2: most accomplished forensic artist is revealing what the mass concealed.
Speaker 2: Like those are going to be the headlines because it's
Speaker 2: just now kind of percolating out of Houston. All it
Speaker 2: takes is one national outlet to pick this up and boom,
Speaker 2: It's going to be everywhere. And let's hope that it helps.
Speaker 2: Let's hope that it doesn't distract. Let's hope that this
Speaker 2: maybe leads folks into the correct direction. But we have
Speaker 2: to lean on her expertise, we have to lean on
Speaker 2: her forty years of effective history with finding perpetrators and
Speaker 2: putting them behind bars.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious to hear from police and I just
Speaker 1: what they will say. Will they say, look, we can't
Speaker 1: rely on this or will they say, you know what,
Speaker 1: call us if you think you see the guy. They've
Speaker 1: got to say something because now the public needs a
Speaker 1: direction to go. Are we looking for this guy or not?
Speaker 1: And this roopes there is nobody better. The other note
Speaker 1: about this lady, you're everybody remembers I can't remember the name.
Speaker 1: I apologize, but the very famous World War two times
Speaker 1: square kiss yes the sailor right, yes, dipping the woman
Speaker 1: and kissing. Can't remember that that sailor. It was a sailor,
Speaker 1: not a soldier. I believe. I believe it was a sailor,
Speaker 1: most famous, one of the most famous photos of the war.
Speaker 1: She later on did the work to help confirm who
Speaker 1: it was in that picture through forensics over the This
Speaker 1: happened in recent years because she had to match up
Speaker 1: who that person was with faces and features and whatnot.
Speaker 1: She was a part of that case. I'm saying, this
Speaker 1: woman is legit. Well, every show you can think of
Speaker 1: America's most wanted, all that stuff, been there, done that,
Speaker 1: She's done it all.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so with that history, with that resume.
Speaker 1: Why shouldn't we listen to that?
Speaker 2: You'd have to think that the FBI and police there
Speaker 2: in Tucson are going to welcome her stepping in and
Speaker 2: welcome her expertise and maybe you know what. They have
Speaker 2: had thirteen thousand tips come in since February first, this
Speaker 2: is day thirteen of the search. They've been a little
Speaker 2: distracted in the sense that they have been chasing down
Speaker 2: hunting down tips. Maybe they haven't had the time or
Speaker 2: the wherewithal, or the resources necessarily to even consider ringing
Speaker 2: in a sketch artist. Yes, they've been doing forensics with
Speaker 2: the surveillance video in terms of determining his height and
Speaker 2: his build and those sorts of things, but maybe it
Speaker 2: just hadn't been something on their mind.
Speaker 1: Well, they say it's not reliable, right, It's one thing
Speaker 1: to go from somebody's memory. You saw somebody, tell me
Speaker 1: what you saw, I'll draw it. But this woman and
Speaker 1: if they might come out and say, yet, look, we
Speaker 1: know this is not a reliable way to go about
Speaker 1: putting and that's why we haven't done it. But they
Speaker 1: got to say something, Robes. They can't leave guy's in
Speaker 1: the country who look like this hanging, because there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of dudes that could fit that description.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm wondering too, like she chose to make him.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. Looks like he could be in his thirties,
Speaker 2: maybe forties, but he looks like a younger man, and
Speaker 2: maybe that would be the idea. Just by the way
Speaker 2: he was moving. She was trying to put an age
Speaker 2: on him. But look, it's a very specific sketch. It's
Speaker 2: sometimes you see sketches and they're very basic. They're kind
Speaker 2: of rudimentary. They're almost like an outline of a face
Speaker 2: with a This is a very detailed This looks like
Speaker 2: a portrait where someone sat down in perfect lighting and
Speaker 2: she drew. I mean it's you said that. She claims
Speaker 2: she's not that great of an artist. This looks like
Speaker 2: an unbelievable portrait of somebody.
Speaker 1: And she does it usually from memory, sitting down with someone,
Speaker 1: but this time she had images to work with en robes.
Speaker 1: She is a victim herself. She said that also helps
Speaker 1: her be good at her job. She usually has to
Speaker 1: sit across from someone in pain, recalling one of the
Speaker 1: most traumatic things in their life. She said that pain
Speaker 1: that she feels she relates to, and it makes her
Speaker 1: good at a job. She's doing it once again. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see how this works out ropes.
Speaker 2: Yes, it'll be very interesting to hear if and when
Speaker 2: the police comment on this sketch, which again is going
Speaker 2: to be everywhere today, So we will keep you updated
Speaker 2: on any new developments in the Guth three case and
Speaker 2: certainly any breaking news throughout the day. You can always
Speaker 2: count on us. You can hit subscribe there on the
Speaker 2: top right corner of your podcast, but we are always
Speaker 2: here looking at the news and doing our best to
Speaker 2: try and bring it to you when we can. But
Speaker 2: we thank you as always for listening to us. I'm
Speaker 2: Amy Robock alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to you
Speaker 2: very soon. The two ens