1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm Kaylee Shore and this is too much 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: to say, but don't go has some questions, so I'm 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: as said, now tell it out. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: You, okay. 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: On this week's episode, we are going to be discussing 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: a hot button topic about narcissists. But a lot of 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: the information out there, a lot of the podcasts out 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: there skew towards dating and marriage and occasionally parents, so 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: those types of narcissistic relationships. But this week I'm going 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: to focus on friends. I think that that's a really 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: important one, especially if you're the kind of person who 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: has like really really close friendships, deep friendships, you can 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: attract these kind of people. And I also want to 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: dispel some myths about narcissism. The word is grossly overused 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: and it's really important to understand it before you ever 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: call somebody that. And I would like to say a disclaimer. 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: I am not a doctor. I have a high school 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: degree and fifteen years of experience in the music industry, 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: but I do have a lifetime's worth of experience dealing 20 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: with these types of people. That being said, all of 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: the information that I'm using today comes from doctors. Like 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: I didn't do any sketchy sources double checked everything, but 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: specifically Alice Frye doctor Alice fry and doctor Romani de Vasulam, 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: and they're both amazing. They're experts in the field of 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: narcissism and they do a lot of research on that. 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Romney has an amazing podcast. I highly recommend you 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: check it out, and listening to her podcast is part 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: of what inspired me to do this episode. So one 29 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: of the biggest miss about narcissism, according to doctor Romney, 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: is that it is only a personality disorder, where in fact, 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: it's actually a personality trait. It's something that you can 32 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: have the same way that you could be agreeable. And 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: that's also an important word because a lot of people, 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: if you ask them what the opposite of a narcissist is, 35 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: they'd say, like, oh, like someone who's humble. But the 36 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: opposite of narcissism is actually agreeableness, agreeability, whatever that word 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: would be. It's being agreeable, and narcissm goes so much 38 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: deeper than just like being vain and liking yourself. And 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 1: that's a huge, huge misconception. These aren't people who stare 40 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: in the mirror all day. They're actually people who can't 41 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: look in the mirror, so they just say everything to 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: other people that they would like to say to themselves, 43 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: but they're never going to do it. So everyone that 44 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: I'm talking about on this podcast, with my personal experience, 45 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to diagnose anybody, but it is absolutely 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: glaring that they have some narcissistic tendencies. So doctor alis 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: Fry says that narcissism turns into a disorder when those 48 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: traits happen persistently and constantly and they affect the narcissist 49 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: daily life. They go from just like a quirk or 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: something that you can work on over time, something to 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: talk about therapy, something to like look inside yourself, to 52 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: something that is really difficult to treat. And there's some 53 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: really fascinating stuff out there by narcissists talking about narcissism. 54 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: So it's there's one called the self aware Narcissist, and 55 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: it's really fascinating because he lets you in on what 56 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: it's like inside his brain. And I thought that was 57 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: actually really hopeful because I also believed that if someone 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: is diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, there's no treating them. 59 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: A very close member of my family got diagnosed with that, 60 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: and those are also rare diagnosis to get because narcisis 61 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: typically hate therapy or they're really good aligning to their therapists. 62 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: Even doctor Romney, who's an expert, said on the Call 63 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: Her Daddy podcast that sometimes she'll take months with a 64 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: patient before realizing they're narcissist. And I think that that's 65 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: terrifying and tells you how good these people are at 66 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: manipulating people's opinions of them and just the world around them. 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: So the DSMV, which is like the Diagnostic Manual of 68 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: Mental disorders, that's like the I mean, it's like the 69 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: magnum opus of that. That's where what doctor's reference. It's 70 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: like the thing. They describe narcissistic personality disorder as an 71 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: overwhelming sense of self importance, an obsession with fantasies about 72 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: being incredibly successful, powerful, intelligent, attractive, or loved. A belief 73 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: that they are more special and unique than others. A 74 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: need for excessive admiration, a strong sense of entitlement, a 75 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: habit of constantly taking advantage of other people, a lack 76 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: of empathy towards others, an envy of others, and a 77 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: haughty attitude, and if you take each one of those 78 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: things and separate them, like you're likely to relate to 79 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: something I just read because humans are imperfect. I absolutely, 80 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I also have an obsession with fantasies about 81 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: being incredibly successful, powerful, intelligent, attractive, and loved. I'd like 82 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: to be all of those things. I, however, will not 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: bulldoze somebody else to get that, and I won't lie 84 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: to somebody else to get that. And who doesn't want 85 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: excessive admiration, right, But there's a point where it just 86 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: becomes like icky, like I want to be admired by 87 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: the people closest to me. And I also found out 88 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, I'm like, Okay, I don't like attension. 89 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: I like validation. I want someone to tell me, hey, 90 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: you're really good at writing songs and you should keep 91 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: doing that. I don't want like a hundred people coming 92 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: at me and being like, oh, like like staring at 93 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: me on the street. 94 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: I don't want that. 95 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: I just want to be told that I'm good at 96 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: the things that I love. But yeah, so you're probably 97 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: gonna see some of yourself in that list. But again, 98 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: doctor alis Fry says, it's one It just like affects 99 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: your daily life on a grand scale. And I do 100 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: think that like the more severe ones that come at 101 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: the end of the list, like habit of constantly taking 102 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: advantage of other people, lack of empathy, envy of others, 103 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: in a haughty attitude, those ones are that like, we 104 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: shouldn't relate to, you know, and the taking advantage of 105 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: thing is big, and we're really we're going to talk 106 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: a lot about that. Narcissm is actually rooted in the 107 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: opposite of high esteem of oneself. So it's actually not 108 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: about being vain as much as it is about being 109 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: so insecure. So these aren't just people who look in 110 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: the mirror all the time. They're people who can't look 111 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: at themselves in the mirror and just say everything to 112 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: everybody else, and that is a really hard thing to 113 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: be around. Studies show that between three and six percent 114 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: of people have narcissis to personality disorder, So that's not 115 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: even accounting for the people who have just like narcissistic tendencies, 116 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: but it says between three and six percent. However, there's 117 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: not a lot of information on this because narcists are 118 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: unlikely to identify as narcissists. They're unlikely to identify as 119 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: anything other than amazing, but chances are you've met one. 120 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: We all meet hundreds of people in our lives, and 121 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: it would make sense that a handful of those people 122 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: you meet would have narcissis personality disorder. So if you're 123 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: like I feel like I've come across quite a few 124 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: people with these tendencies. But I do also think that 125 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: agreeable people or people who just give a lot tend 126 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: to attract those kind of, you know, self centered people 127 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: who want to take advantage of them. And I have 128 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: gotten really good at setting boundaries as I've gotten older, 129 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: and I feel like kind of ungaslightable and it feels 130 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: so good. I've been working on this in therapy. But 131 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: this has not always been like that. I have been 132 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: so gullible, just given so much of myself to people 133 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: who could not give less of a fuck about me, 134 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: and I have been there. I've been there with men, 135 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: family members, never dated a narcisstic girl, but I have 136 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: been really good friends with one, so that's difficult. There's 137 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: actually some studies as well that show that people have 138 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: narcissistic personality disorder have less gray matter in their brain 139 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: in the area that's related to empathy, and that's according 140 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: to the Mayo Clinic. And then as far as where 141 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: it comes from, you could have narcissistic parents and both 142 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: have some sort of like genetic component to that, but 143 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: also learn from modeling yourself after them. You also can 144 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: have just toxic parents in a different way. People who 145 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: are narcissists are very likely to come from homes where 146 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: they either had an insane amount of pressure on them 147 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: or an insane amount of excusing their behavior and letting 148 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: them get away with anything. So like a parent who 149 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: would be like, you're such a huge disappointment, you got 150 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: to be on your test, or the kid goes and 151 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: like lights some shit on fire and they're like, oh, 152 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: that's just how they are, Like that's the kind of 153 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: people we're talking about. It is one of the hardest 154 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: to treat conditions for the reason that I said earlier, 155 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: like narcissists don't go to therapy, they don't seek help. 156 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: But it is amazing to see that there are people 157 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: like the guy who runs the Self Aware a Narcissist 158 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: podcast who are seeking help and working on themselves, and 159 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: that makes me feel so much better talking about this 160 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: topic because the whole like throw the whole person away 161 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: thing really stresses me out. But it's also like, you 162 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: do have to cut off the narcissist in your life, 163 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: but there is room for improvement and self awareness, and 164 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: I just think that that's very, very hopeful and helpful. 165 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and then we will 166 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: be back and I'm going to talk about some of 167 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: my personal experiences with this. So we're gonna spill some tea. 168 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: I will see you guys in a bit. Okay, So 169 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of do this part backwards, and I'm 170 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: going to tell you some stories about my experiences with 171 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: people that I consider to be very narcissistic, and then 172 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you what to look for, and 173 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: then you'll be able to kind of see the whole 174 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 1: picture come together from the story and all the red 175 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: flags that I missed that you don't have to because 176 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: you can research this earlier in your life than I did. Okay, 177 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: So I think that my ex boyfriend had some really 178 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: narcisstic quality. I don't know if he was like, I 179 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: don't want to say smart, but I don't know if 180 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: he was like conniving enough he just had really bad 181 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: rage issues. And it's the guy that my song e 182 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: Fie Forever is about. And there was some really scary 183 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: moments in our relationship. The first one that I can 184 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: really remember that wasn't just like little stuff like the 185 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: first well, the first little thing that happened, I guess 186 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: is maybe not that little, but like he lied to 187 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: me about how many people he'd slept with, and that 188 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: is one thing, but he had actually slept with somebody 189 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: after we started sleeping together and we weren't officially exclusive, 190 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: but I had asked him if he was sleeping with 191 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: anybody else because I was, you know, really paranoid about STDs, 192 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: which is a very okay thing to be paranoid about. 193 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: And he said, no, I haven't and I'm not and 194 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: I was like okay. And then when I we got 195 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: to the point in our relationship like a couple months later, 196 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, how many people have you slept with? 197 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: Told me how many? 198 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: And like you know who they were, because it wasn't 199 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: that many at that point and was life things have changed. 200 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: But but then a couple months later I found out 201 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: he did a nude shoot with this girl he hooked 202 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: up with before and I was like, hey, can you please, like, 203 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna do a nude shoot with her? 204 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: Because I'm a cool girlfriend. I was like, could you 205 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: just like have somebody else there, like a makeup artist 206 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: or whatever. And he was like, oh, yeah, I guess so, 207 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, that's really important to me, 208 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: and like if she so basically like, if you're alone, 209 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: could she keep her clothes on? If she won't keep 210 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: her clothes on, can you not be alone? And I 211 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: think that's a really fair compromise. And he told me 212 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: he did that, and I was like, okay, So we 213 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: lived together at this point, and he is showing me 214 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: some pictures on his laptop of the shoot that he 215 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: did with this girl, and I was like trying to 216 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: be supportive, and then I like saw something kind of sketchy, 217 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: like she she like was wearing like all of a sudden, 218 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: she's wearing like the Risky Business Tom Cruise, like button 219 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: down white shirt and like no pants, and I was like, hmmm, 220 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: where did her pants go? And then I just reached 221 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: over and I pressed the forward arrow on his laptop 222 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: keyboard like really really fast, and immediately found all these 223 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: like nudes he'd taken of her, and I was just 224 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: so fucking pissed. So I like, grab my person and 225 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: I leave. I go to a friend's house and I 226 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: come back to my house later to get some more 227 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: stuff because I was. 228 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: Not planning on coming back anytime soon. 229 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm 230 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: gonna look at his laptop because I don't trust him, 231 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: and I feel like, you know, I acknowledged that this 232 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: is wrong, but I'm going to do it, and I'm 233 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: going to own that I'm wrong in this scenario. And 234 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: because I think, I'm gonna find something out. And I 235 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: found out that he had slept with our roommate's best friend, 236 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: who was over the house all the time, like maybe 237 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: a week or two before we started officially dating. And 238 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: I just never liked this girl. I always thought she 239 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: was really weird to me, and it turns out she 240 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: was like in love with my boyfriend, and that was 241 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: a whole thing. And then I got back together with 242 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: him because I'm a fucking idiot, but that was like, 243 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: that is a great microcosm of the issues in our relationship. 244 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: And then as time went on, he kind of got 245 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, more controlling and more jealous of stuff with 246 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: my career. But then it all came to a head. 247 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: One night. 248 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: He was really drunk at a party that I was 249 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: at and it was like a work party and I 250 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: was performing and really needed to be like on my 251 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: game because there was some investors there and there's an 252 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: open bar and it was really fun. But he drank 253 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: too much and I wasn't drinking at all because I 254 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: was trying to network and I was like driving everybody, 255 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm gonna be responsible, and he 256 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: had just like twelve too many Gen and Tonics. That's 257 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: an exaggeration, Okay, when I'm talking about people, I need 258 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: to not exaggerate. I he had like probably like eight 259 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: too many Gen and Tonics. And on the riot, he 260 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: started talking really loudly while somebody else was performing, and 261 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: I like leaned over and then like the nicest twenty 262 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: two year old Kaylee Way, I like was like, hey, 263 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: like I think you might be louder than you realize 264 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: you are, and like this girl's playing like a really 265 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: like kind of quiet song, like maybe you could like 266 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: bring it down a little bit, and his face just drops, 267 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: like all the blood drained out of his body and 268 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: he was like, okay, we need to go, and I 269 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: was like, well, I don't really want to go, and 270 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: he's like, no, we need to go, and he goes 271 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: outside and I was like okay, fine, So I follow 272 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: him out and everybody leaves, and then when him and 273 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: I are in the car alone after we like leave 274 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: our friends, he starts crying and screaming and saying that 275 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: I embarrassed him. And then all of a sudden, he's 276 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: like banging his fists on my dashboard and then like 277 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: reaching over and like hitting my steering wheel with his fist, 278 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: like trying to like run us off the road. And 279 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: I was like, what the fuck? And he's just like 280 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: crying and his voice is so deep and like loud, 281 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: and so it's really upsetting when he would yell because 282 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: it just always sounded scary than it was, but it 283 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: was very scary. 284 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: In that moment. 285 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: And so that was like the first time there was 286 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: violence of any sort involved. And I wouldn't really even 287 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: have called that violence, but I will now because it 288 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: was like a I mean, he. 289 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: Tried to run the car off the road. 290 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: I feel like that's look at me and gaslighting myself 291 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: for him. He doesn't even have to do it anymore anyways. 292 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: So six months later was when the incident that I 293 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: talked about in Effie Forever happened where he cheated on me. 294 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: I took a week because my therapist told me to 295 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: to like break, like take a. 296 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: Breather, but we weren't on a break at all. 297 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: I wouldn't stay at a friend's house, but I was like, 298 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: I just need some like space from this to think 299 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: about it. If I get back together with you, like 300 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: we're getting married, and I'm we're never breaking up if 301 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: we make it through this, So I'm trying to be 302 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: responsible and he just like at first was like okay, cool, 303 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: that's like really mature, that makes sense. And then he 304 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: starts like losing his mind. And my best friend at 305 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: the time invited us both to our birthday party, and 306 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: like I am like, why would you invite this guy 307 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: that your fucking best friends having issues with to your 308 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: birthday party? So we have to hang out, and once again, 309 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: I was not drinking because I was like really emotional 310 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: and didn't want to be around him, and I was 311 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: like trying to be there for my friend because like birthdays. 312 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: Are very important, and. 313 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: He like gets really drunk at this party and pulls 314 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: me into another room and is like, I want to 315 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: talk to you, like I want to get back together. 316 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: And I was like, dude, we have couples therapy scheduled 317 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: tomorrow morning at eight am, and like we're going to 318 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: talk about this with somebody there, and we're going to 319 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: do this the right way, Like I'm not talking to 320 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: you about this when you're wasted and I'm sober and 321 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: we're tired. And he was like okay, fine, And then 322 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: we get in the uber with like three of our 323 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: friends to go back to our apartment because I was 324 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: going to get some like more stuff and then go 325 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: back to my friends, who were two of the girls 326 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: in the car with us, and the Uber driver's like, 327 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: how's your night going. 328 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: And he's like it's going awful. 329 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for asking, And I was like, okay, get back 330 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: to the apartment. And I'm like thinking, I'm I'm safe. 331 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: I thought he was just gonna be kind of moody 332 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: because there's so many people around, like two of our 333 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: friends around the balcony, one was in the living room, 334 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: I'm in the bathroom, and I'm kind of like having 335 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: a moment, like a little panic attack, just giving to myself. 336 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: I was getting my skincare stuff and then I just 337 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: sat up against the bathtub and I was just like, I. 338 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: Just need to breathe for a second. 339 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: That was a lot to have to be around him 340 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: for that long. And then he comes into the bathroom 341 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: like bangs on the door, opens it up, and I 342 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: don't open it up. He just walks in and he 343 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: like sits in front of me. He's like, I need 344 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: to know if you're breaking up with me, and I 345 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: was like, well, the point is like I don't. 346 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 2: I don't. 347 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that because we're talking about it 348 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: in therapy and like I want to do this the 349 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: right way. And he was like, I need you to 350 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: tell me, and then he just starts repeating himself like 351 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: I need you tell me, I need you tell me. 352 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: You got to tell me. I need you to tell me. 353 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: And that's like kind of freaky when someone talks to 354 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: you like that. And then his voice gets louder and louder, 355 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: and he starts he grabs me by the shoulders and 356 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: he shakes me and slams me up against the bathtom 357 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: and he's like you need to tell me, but. 358 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 2: Like yelling it so loud so deep, like. 359 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: Sounds like the fucking gates of Hell opened up, and 360 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: I just like went like limp and like could not 361 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: believe what was happening. 362 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: And then he was like, are you breaking up with me? 363 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: And I was like. 364 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: Yes, I am, I am. And then he runs out 365 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: into the living room, which is like right outside the bathroom, 366 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: and just starts screaming like no at the top of 367 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: his lungs like held the note for so long it 368 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: was like operatic, both in drama and in lung capabilities, 369 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: and I was like, God, somebody's gonna call the cops. 370 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: And our friends like heard sash saw everything happen, like 371 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: they came running as soon as they heard the slamming 372 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: because it was very parent that, like, you know, somebody 373 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: was being you know, that was happening. So my friend 374 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: comes in and sits on the floor with me, and 375 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: then he runs out to the parking garage stands on 376 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: the edge of the park garage and then somebody comes 377 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: and gets me and I was like okay, and I 378 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: like they were like, you need to talk him down 379 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: off the parking garage because he says he's gonna kill himself. 380 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: And I was like okay. 381 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: And trying to be sensitive, and I like was still 382 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: processing the fact that he just like put his hands 383 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: on me for the first time in our relationship. And 384 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: he's on the edge of the parking garage and he 385 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: looks at me. He's like, if I jump, you're gonna 386 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: be to blame and it'll be your fault. And I 387 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: was like, oh god, well I And I don't even 388 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: remember what I said to him, because I think I 389 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: just like blacked out from trauma at that point. But 390 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: I know I wasn't mean. I know, I didn't yell 391 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: or hit back. I just was like weirdly calm because 392 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: I was so traumatized in that moment. And so that 393 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: whole night was crazy. But then what's crazier is just 394 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: how he acted after the breakup and like talks so 395 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: much shit about me and you know, fucked my friends 396 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: and obviously we're not my friends and just did all 397 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: this stuff. And then I know now because I've become 398 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: friends with some of his other ex girlfriends, that he 399 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: he got even like worse after we broke up, which 400 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: is horrible. But that really points to like narcissistic rage 401 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: and that kind of like projection, like he cheated on me. 402 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: He was angry with himself, but he had to get 403 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: angry at me because he wished he could beat himself 404 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: up instead, but would never get to the point where 405 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: he could acknowledge that. So that was like a big one. 406 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: But as far as like other types of narcissus, like 407 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: there's some really conniving ones out there. So there's this 408 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: strategy that narcisst will do called smear campaigns, And everybody 409 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: knows what a smear campaign is, but in the topic 410 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: of narcissm, it's specific, and it's when somebody tries to 411 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: slowly disassemble your support system and take all these like 412 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: safety nets away from you and make everybody hate you. 413 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: And there's like I've seen stuff like in high school 414 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: where like somebody's mad at a girl because she's like 415 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: slept with her boyfriend and every she wants all the 416 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: girls to hate that or because you don't want her 417 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: to have friends. Like that's that's complicated, that's drama. But 418 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: then there's like this smear campaign and basically my friends 419 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: starts dating this guy who was my really good friend, 420 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: and I don't know what I did. I think I 421 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: told I think I told them not to move in 422 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: together after knowing each other for five weeks. 423 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 2: And I will stand by that. 424 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: And I was also like going through a depressive episode 425 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: of like bipolar, which I normally just keep to myself. 426 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: I take my medicine, I read, I do yoga, I 427 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: stay out of bars, and I don't really have a 428 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: social battery. So I was doing all the right stuff 429 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: that I've learned how to do in therapy, because I've 430 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: done a lot of therapy and I know what works 431 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: for myself, right, Like we're supposed to trust ourselves when 432 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: it comes to self care. But apparently I wasn't like 433 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: around enough and they thought I was. I was being 434 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: a bad friend, and I was like, well, I'm kind 435 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: of depressed and Sam and I are arguing a lot, 436 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: and then it just like made no sense. Narcisis don't 437 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: make any sense if you ever like really fucking fused 438 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: by something like start thinking like this and see if 439 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: it adds up. 440 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: But even when I try to, anytime. 441 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 1: I try to tell the story, it just sounds crazy. 442 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: But basically, like this guy ends up like slowly dismantling 443 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: my life from my adult best friend to my elementary 444 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: school best friend, middle school best friend who moved to Nashville, 445 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: to like members of Sam's family, to Sam's friends, and 446 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: then to Sam himself, and was like trying to get 447 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: him to break up with me. And I do not 448 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: think it's because this guy had a crush on me. 449 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: That would be way too easily explainable. It was just 450 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: like some weird thing. And I think it might be 451 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: because I recognized he was love bombing my friend and 452 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: I'd now seen him go through two breakups that looked 453 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: strikingly similar to each other and was kind of like 454 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: starting to be like, hmm, this guy's being a little weird. 455 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: And Narses really hate being fucking seen. They really hate 456 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: being seen. And you know what they love to do. 457 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: They love to call you a narcissist. And that's why 458 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: we can't throw around the word. I don't think it's 459 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: fair to do that, like to someone's face and whatever. 460 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: Like you have to think long and hard before you, 461 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, come to terms with somebody being narcissistic or 462 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: having a personality disorder, and that is something only a 463 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: doctor can do. But this shit was like undeniable, and 464 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: the lies and the gaslighting, and I have these like 465 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: crazy texts from him like I've never gotten in this 466 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: long of a text argument, like with a guy that 467 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't dating. I was like, what the hell, Like, 468 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: we don't what like I thought that we only felt 469 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: like this with like boyfriends and shit, and he just 470 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: was like going off. 471 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: He sent me one of those. 472 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: Texts that was so long you had to click on it, 473 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: and I was like, God, there's so few people on 474 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: the planet I care enough to type that long for 475 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: my thumbs would hurt. What are you even doing? And 476 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: he said this crazy thing about because I'd lost all 477 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: my friends after my breakup with my ex boyfriend because 478 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: I don't know, he manipulated people, like got people on 479 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: his side whatever. 480 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: And he's like knew that. 481 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: I was really really like insecure about that and said 482 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: something like He's like, you didn't want our whole friend 483 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: group to split up like yours did after your breakup. 484 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: But that's the track you're putting us on. Deal with 485 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: your shit, and I'll keep my distance. I hope you 486 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: figure it out. And I was like, I did not 487 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: put you on any track. I intentionally kept you off 488 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: of it. You all chose to involve yourself as something 489 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: you knew you didn't have the full context for and 490 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: I was like, appreciate the space I needed, And that's 491 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: the last thing we ever said. But like, that's such 492 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: a fucking mean thing to say, to be like, everybody's 493 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: gonna leave you, just like they did last time. So 494 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: when somebody says something like that, that's a huge red flag. Recently, 495 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: I've been dealing with somebody who reminds me way too 496 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: much of those two people. 497 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 2: And this person is a woman, and I like hate using. 498 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: My podcast to talk shit about people, but this has 499 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: just been so fucking crazy. And this person like stole 500 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: from me and I have them like doing something crazy 501 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: on camera and they lied about all of it and 502 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: it just gasol at me and to oblivion and it's 503 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: just been insane and I forgot that like adults behaved 504 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: like this, and it's just so like sinister, and I 505 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: have proof for all of it. And it's like she 506 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: can literally look at a camera and be like, no, 507 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: you're hearing that wrong, Like no, I'm not, and she's like, yes, 508 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: you are, like just thinking that she can just gaslight 509 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: like that. Well, I'm like, girly, uh huh. I've been 510 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: to too much therapy for this. And also you're gonna 511 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: have to get better at at lying because I can 512 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: see right through you, and I don't accuse people of 513 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: things unless I have fucking receipts, And with the stealing. 514 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: It was incredibly obvious. 515 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: Like I don't wanna tell specifics because then it'll be 516 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just trying to be ethical but also 517 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: share my story here. But it's just really frightening to 518 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: see how somebody can manipulate you and people around them 519 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: and then turn on this like poor me persona and 520 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: try to get sympathy and they like use your empathy 521 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,479 Speaker 1: against you, and that's just crazy. So without going too 522 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: far into that situation, we're going to take a break, 523 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: and when we come back, I'm going to give you 524 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: some questions to ask yourself about if you might be 525 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 1: friends with an narcist, And all of these questions will 526 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: apply to any other relationship you might have with one sibling, 527 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: parent dating, and there's lots of resources for that, and 528 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: maybe I'll do a follow up episode on like a 529 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: more specific relationship, but this one will focus mostly on like. 530 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 2: Friends, and we'll be right back to talk more about that. 531 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: So here's some questions to ask yourself about if you 532 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: might be friends with an narcist. This all according to 533 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: Choosingthapy dot com. The article is written by two doctors. 534 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: You can check it out yourself. But these are kind 535 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: of paraphrased into examples that I've seen myself, but I 536 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: highly recommend reading the original article. Uh So, somebody, these 537 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: all have to be severe. These examples can't just be 538 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: like your friend fished for a compliment one time and 539 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: was like, are you sure my hair doesn't look stupid 540 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: or like whatever. It's like compulsive and endless and never 541 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: stops and applies to every situation like this has to 542 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: be so fucking severe, So keep that in mind because 543 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: sometimes people are just shitty. Sometimes people are just toxic. 544 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: They're not always an narcissist. But after you hear these questions, 545 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: if you answer hell yes to more than like four 546 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: or five, do some listen to some other podcasts of 547 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: like actual doctors talking. So a friend who's a narcist 548 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: will put their needs first, and that means like financially, 549 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: like they might think that they shouldn't have to pay 550 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: for dinner because you were the one who invited them 551 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: to dinner even though you said nothing about paying. They 552 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,719 Speaker 1: will you know, never offer gas money. They'll want you 553 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: to drive them everywhere so that they don't have to 554 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: spend money on that. They'll just assume things are being 555 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: taken care of. Like if you went and bought like 556 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: let's say you guys were going to hang out and 557 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: you went and bought like a bottle of wine or whatever, 558 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: they would never a bring a bottle of wine the 559 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: next time, and they would never like offer you any 560 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: money for that or it just it's a one way 561 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: friendship financially, and then also just somebody who like takes 562 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: advantage of your time and they put their needs first 563 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: in that way, they run late. They have no apology 564 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: or explanation. They don't understand why you're mad that they're late. 565 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: They could be an hour late, and you're like, dude, 566 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: I have like things to do, like what are you doing? 567 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: And they're like, why are you so mad at me? 568 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: Like you're so controlling. I have things going on too, 569 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: Like why are you acting so entitled to my time? 570 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: And they're like and you're like, wait, why are you 571 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: acting so entitled to my time? I just sat here 572 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: for an hour? What are you talking about? And like 573 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: they have a lot of rules that only apply to them. 574 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: I e. 575 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: Like, if you were ever late, they'd kill you, not literally, 576 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: but then the fishing for compliments thing is very very big. 577 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: It's like dramatic insecurity, so they might not even like 578 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: narcisism is an insecurity disorder, but this is like kind 579 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: of like a put on humility and insecurity thing, very 580 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: like over the top. Like let's say your friend and 581 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: it's something they know the answer to. Let's say your 582 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: friend is just got her hair done and it looks 583 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: really good and spent a lot of money on it, 584 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: and it like looks great objectively, everyone would say it 585 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: looks great, and you haven't said anything to her about 586 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: her new hair yet because you're just so busy or 587 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: you didn't notice or whatever. And she comes up and 588 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: she's like, do you think my hair looks ugly? I 589 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: think it looks so bad. I feel like everybody's going 590 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: to make fun of me, Like it looks so bad, right, 591 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: And you're like, no, you look like Jennifer Aniston. 592 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: What are you talking about? 593 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: And they're like, are you sure I don't look ugly? 594 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: I just feel like I. 595 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: Look ugly in it, And then they'll like bring it 596 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: up like ten more times, and you can tell when 597 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: that's somebody who's like, hey, do you think my hair 598 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: looks bad? I don't know how I feel about it, 599 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: versus like something that clearly looks amazing, and they just 600 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: want to hear more about how it looks amazing. 601 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: It being amazing is not enough. They must hear about 602 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: it as well. 603 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: Superficial convos. If you have superficial conversations with your friend 604 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,239 Speaker 1: that never go deeper. Let's say you need something like 605 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: support because family member dies, they're not going to know 606 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: what to say, so they'll just say something like stock 607 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: that's like. 608 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: Oh, they're in a better place. 609 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: Change the subjects start talking about them not have any understanding. 610 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: And this friend of mine that I've been dealing with, 611 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 1: like one of our friends did lose somebody, and I 612 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: was saying something to the narcissistic friend and I was like, yeah, 613 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: I feel like we should. Probably she wanted me to 614 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: ask the other girl for something, and I was like, yeah, 615 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I don't really want to do that, Like she's going 616 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: through a lot, and I just feel like we should 617 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: just take care of this for her because she has 618 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: all that going on. And this girl was like, what 619 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: does she have going on, I'm like, oh my god, 620 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: somebody died last week. What the fuck are you talking about? 621 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, yeah, I guess so. And 622 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: then that same exact conversation happened like again two weeks later, 623 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 1: and I was like, girl, oh my god, like tell 624 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: me you have no empathy without telling me you have 625 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: no empathy. But another superficial thing is like they'll they'll 626 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: ask you no questions about yourself. 627 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 2: They'll talk about themselves. 628 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: They'll talk about things like looks and boys or girls 629 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: or just like very very superficial, superficial things that make 630 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: them seem great. They'll brag about themselves a lot. And 631 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: there's a difference between a friend like sharing something they're 632 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: excited about and a friend who's like trying to seem superior. 633 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: And you should trust your. 634 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: Judgment on that. 635 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: That friend also may only ask questions about you when 636 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: they're going to use them against you. So they also 637 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: will mind for information to find things that they can 638 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: either throw back in your face or say about you. 639 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: So let's say, you know, for me, I had told 640 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: that guy friend. I was like, hey, like I'm going 641 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: through or I guess I told I told him, But 642 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: before that, I told his girlfriend. I was like, I'm 643 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: going through a bipolar episode and I'm really not doing great. 644 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 1: I just need to kind of take two weeks and 645 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: just ride it out, let it happen, and keep to myself, 646 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: and then I'll come out on the other side and 647 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: I'll be great. And she told him about it whatever, 648 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, two weeks later, he's like, well, 649 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: you're mentally unwell and you just haven't been doing well lately, 650 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: and like everybody can tell. And I was like, well, yeah, 651 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: because I told everybody. And he's like yeah, but you're 652 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: making it other people's problem and you're taking it out 653 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: on other people. I'm like, how can I take it 654 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: out on everybody if I'm not talking to them, if 655 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm just like in my room reading, Like that is 656 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: the healthiest depression activity one could do that, and you know, 657 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: just sleeping, but like just immediately through the back in 658 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: my face and was like, well, you're a bipolar and 659 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well you clearly got something going on 660 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: up there, to buddy. And then also when it comes 661 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: to like questions about yourself or caring about you, sometimes 662 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: they may show up to an excessive degree, like listen 663 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: to you talk and like talk to you about a 664 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: breakup on the phone for like four hours so they 665 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: can hold it over your head and. 666 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 2: Be your best friend. 667 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: Because this person will also not like that you have 668 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: other best friends. They'll need to be your best best 669 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: friend however long. They need you in their life for 670 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: their narcissistic supply, which is like attention, and they just 671 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: like basically take people like a washcloth and bring them 672 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: out till there's nothing left. And while they're doing that 673 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: to you, they need you little wash cloth to love 674 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: them more than anything or anyone. So they might just 675 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: like be really dramatic in the ways that they support 676 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: you and really inconsistent with that. So like sometimes they'll 677 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I can't handle like I can't deal 678 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: with this. I don't know why you're complaining to me 679 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: about your dad. And then other times they may be like, 680 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe you would do that 681 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: to you, like let's talk about it and like drive 682 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: over to your house in the middle of the night. 683 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 1: They'll also be entitled to your time in ways other 684 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: than just being late, but in the way that they 685 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 1: might be upset when you're hanging out with other people. 686 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: They will be upset when you won't drop things to 687 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: hang out with them or help them, like picking them 688 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: up from the airport, like you might have work or 689 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: have something else that you really wanted to do, and 690 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: they want to understand, and they'll be you never help me, 691 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: like and I took you to the airport, and you'll 692 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: be like, wait, you never took me to the airport, 693 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: and then they'll start saying something crazy. And there's this 694 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: whole concept within like narcissistic psychology about circular conversations, which 695 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: are the biggest red flag because when a normal, healthy 696 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: person normal meaning you know, I guess self aware and 697 00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: trying to work on themselves, goes into an argument, the 698 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,439 Speaker 1: goal is to come out with a solution. The goal 699 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: might be to be like, you really think you're right, 700 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: and you want that other person to see you're right, 701 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: but you're not trying to like win anything. 702 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 2: You want them to. 703 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: See your perspective. That's what you want, and you want 704 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: them to take the same approach as you. But being 705 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: right and winning are not the same thing. And it's 706 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: also like being right and winning at all costs, no 707 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: matter what you have to say, even if you have 708 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: to lie, even if you have to deny everything, even 709 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: if you have to gaslight somebody, like that's crazy. And 710 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: there's this quote online it's called the narcisist Prayer, which 711 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: is a little dramatic, but this is exactly how those 712 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: conversations go. That didn't happen, and if it did, it 713 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a 714 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. 715 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 1: And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if 716 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: I did, you deserved it. And it's exactly that in 717 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: circles and circles, and then they'll like hone in on 718 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: something really small you said. You might have like pronounced 719 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: a word and they'll be like, oh, yeah, what do 720 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 1: you mean by that, And then you'll get distracted and 721 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: try to like explain yourself, or then they'll take like 722 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: one little thing you said and they'll try to derail 723 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: the conversation onto something totally different. So like if you're like, hey, 724 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: I don't like that you stole money from me, and 725 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: I noticed the other day because my wallet wasn't where 726 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: I put it, and then when I found it, and 727 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: they're like, wait, where'd you put your wallet? And you're like, well, 728 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: I put it on the counter, and they're like, you sure, 729 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: you put it on the counter because you put your 730 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: stuff everywhere, and I feel like you are always losing 731 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: your things and you throw them all over the place, 732 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: so maybe you lost it and I don't know why 733 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: you can have to do that, And also like if 734 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: you could start cleaning up the dishes more like I'm 735 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: so tired of your stuff being everywhere, and I'm like, 736 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: you haven't swept in weeks. 737 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, you're like, wait, what 738 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: we're talking about. 739 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: You're stealing money from me, and then you go down 740 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: the rabbit hole, and then getting yourself out requires crazy 741 00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,280 Speaker 1: strict boundaries, like too crazy, as in like very actually 742 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: very sane, and redirecting and redirecting and redirecting as if 743 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: you're talking to a child and you're trying to teach 744 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: them how to ride a bike, you're trying to teach them. 745 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 2: How to have an adult conversation. 746 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: Another thing, too, is like they'll be really harsh with you, 747 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: and like let's say they're like, oh, have you been 748 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: like working out? Because I feel like you're looking a 749 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: little you don't really look like yourself are you okay, 750 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: Are you eating all right? 751 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 2: Like are you good? 752 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: Because I feel it and I feel like you haven't 753 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: been like wearing the same clothes recently, Like are you 754 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: insecure because you've gained weight? Because I think you still 755 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: look really good. And then you'll be like, wait, did 756 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: you say I gain weight? I don't think I gain weight. 757 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: And then they'll be like, oh my god, you're always 758 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: so fucking sensitive, and it's always you're so sensitive, like, 759 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 1: oh God forbid, somebody lets something emotionally perfect them right. 760 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: Another one is blatant lies like you saw them do it, 761 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: and they're like, no, I didn't do it. You're always 762 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: seeing things. You always come up with stuff that never 763 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: makes sense. And I'm just so tired of being accused 764 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: of things I didn't do, like that one time three 765 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: years ago that you did this and it was just 766 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: so upsetting and so traumatic for me, And I cannot 767 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: believe that I'm still putting up with your shit because 768 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: I hate like being your friend because I'm constantly put 769 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: through the ring air and you're like what wait, what wait? 770 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 2: We were talking about something. 771 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: Totally different and it just goes off the rails. And 772 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: I think that the thing that I was talking to 773 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 1: about the girl I've been dealing with, like having something 774 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: on camera and here still trying to tonight. I was like, 775 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: oh my god, oh sweetie, you were not ready for me, 776 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: because I will call you out and I see you. 777 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: And narcissists hate they love being looked at. 778 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 2: They hate being seen. 779 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: Another thing, too, is like hostility. If you came to 780 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: a friend who was like in a healthy space and 781 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, didn't have all of these issues, and 782 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: you were like, heye, So some money went missing from 783 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: my wallet and I feel like you were in the 784 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: room with it when I wasn't there, and I like, 785 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: I hate having to say this, but like, did you 786 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: take it? Because you can just give it back and 787 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: we'll be fine and we'll get over it. And I 788 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: feel like if somebody came to me with that, I'd 789 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I did 790 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: not do that. I understand how you could think I 791 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: would because I was home at that point, but I 792 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: didn't do it. And I'd love to try to help 793 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: you find out who did, because that sucks and I 794 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: don't know who would do that, But that's that's wild, 795 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: and you know, are you sure you don't misplaced it 796 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: somewhere like something like that, and like try to help 797 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: them problem solve, whereas a narcissist, you'd be like, hey, 798 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, come to them the same way as soft, 799 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: you know, well spoken, not from anger, and they would 800 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: be like, here we fucking go again with you and 801 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: your crazy delusions. You just can't leave me alone. You 802 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: have it out for me and you want to ruin 803 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: my life. And I'm so tired of this smear campaign. 804 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: And you are such a narcisst you need everybody to 805 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: love you, and like you're just like, oh my god, wait, 806 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: what are you just saying all these things about yourself 807 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: to me? And the answer is yes. And to quote 808 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: my song if You've Forever, it's my favorite line. I 809 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 1: wrote it with my best friends Candy Carpenter and Nanny Wilgrin, 810 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: and the line is I'm just a mirror reflecting and 811 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: you're just an asshole projecting. And I love when y'all 812 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: seeing that really loud at shows. It makes me so happy. 813 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,959 Speaker 1: So like hostility. And then if they do get caught 814 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: and you have undeniable proof and they decide that they wanted, 815 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,439 Speaker 1: they're just too tired to gas light you. I guess 816 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: they will show like no remorse, and again it'll be 817 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: that didn't happen. If it did, it wasn't that bad. 818 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: If it was, that's not a big deal. And if 819 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: it is, it's not my fault. And if it was, 820 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. 821 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: And it's just that cycle over and over and over again. 822 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: So that is my thoughts on this scenario. I really 823 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: highly recommend, like, if any of this kind of struck 824 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: a nerve with you, I definitely recommend doing some more 825 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: research on your own and reading some stuff. I mean, 826 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: it's really difficult because all the advice out there for 827 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: how to deal with this is to just put up 828 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: with it and stop being friends with the person, which 829 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: you know doesn't sound doable, but it can be, and 830 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: your life will be better with boundaries, and you can 831 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 1: stay friends with people that are kind of toxic to you. 832 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: But you just have to do it with boundaries and 833 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: make sure that you protect yourself and you can still 834 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: be kind. Setting boundaries and telling somebody no does not 835 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: make you an asshole. It means you're looking out for yourself. 836 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: Saying no when someone asks you to do something does 837 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: not make you an asshole if it's like a favor 838 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: for them and you just don't have time or you 839 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: can't hang out or whatever, like there's time so you 840 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: can be an asshole. It's like, you know, let's say 841 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 1: you're I keep going back to people dying, but like 842 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 1: your friend's dad dies and it's like, hey, can you come. 843 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 2: To my funeral, like the funeral with me? Like and 844 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 2: you being like, oh, well, sorry, I don't have a 845 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 2: social battery. 846 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well nobody has about social battery for 847 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: a funeral, so get the fuck over it. But then 848 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: there's like, hey, like can you come shopping with me? 849 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: Like I really need to pick out a dress for 850 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: this date? And it's like, oh fuck, I really, like 851 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: I don't have the money to go. And then it's 852 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: like you're such a bad friend. You never want to 853 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: hang out with me. This is the only thing I 854 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: could do the episode on this week because I've been 855 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: so stressed by this situation that I'm trying you do 856 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: not say too much about woof Anyways, that has been 857 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,479 Speaker 1: today's episode, and I hope you guys learn something from it. Again, 858 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: I highly recommend talking checking out Dr Rominey's podcast. It's 859 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: amazing and there's some really great advice on there. I 860 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: also liked the podcast Narcissist Apocalypse. That one has a 861 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: lot of great information about if you think you might 862 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: be dating one, but just educate yourself, protect yourself, set boundaries, 863 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: be kind, but you do not need to let anybody 864 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: take advantage of you. I'm gayly shore and this is 865 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: too much to say. 866 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 2: All Go has some questions. Yes, so I'll ask you. 867 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 2: Now tell it out. You