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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie

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Speaker 1: Loftus and I'm Caitlin Darante and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: about the representation of women in famous movies. Wow, there

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Speaker 1: where we are for episode? What is its one million?

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Speaker 1: There's still there's still so it just crazy me the

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Speaker 1: show that has been happening for three years and we're

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Speaker 1: still like, not even remotely through influential movies. There's so

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Speaker 1: many left. I'm surprised it took us this long to

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Speaker 1: get to this one today. I think this is the

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Speaker 1: first time they're recovering a Cameron Crow joint. I would say,

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Speaker 1: mercifully hold that as long as humanly possible, but sure

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Speaker 1: it's time to take a long, hard look at the

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Speaker 1: scourge of Crow. Yeah, because what he's got. Jerry Maguire, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. Almost famous boring? Right? Aloha offensive

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Town. Not offensive in the same way as Aloha,

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Speaker 1: but like offensively boring. We've got the Manic Pixie. We've

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Speaker 1: got yeah origins. Um. Anyways, The Bechdel Cast is FAMAS

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Speaker 1: Movie podcast. We use the Bechdel Test sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Wallace Test too, as a jumping out point for

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Speaker 1: a discussion, which is a media metric invented by cartoonist

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Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel that requires that a movie have two female

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Speaker 1: identifying characters with names that talk to each other about

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Speaker 1: something other than man. Can Cameron Crowe do it? I

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Speaker 1: don't think he probably not. I think he's ever done it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that Cameron I really like watching

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Speaker 1: We're doing Fast Times at Ridgemont High today. I really

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Speaker 1: didn't real eyes the amount that I find Cameron Crowe's

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Speaker 1: work to be annoying. Yeah, it's capacity for annoying me

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Speaker 1: in different ways knows no bounds. Sure, let's talk about it.

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Speaker 1: We have two guests today. We do, we do, Indeed,

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Speaker 1: we mustn't delay. They are comedians and hosts of Mall

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Speaker 1: Talk podcast, Page Weldon and Emily Faye. Hi. Hello, welcome,

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Speaker 1: than you having us Hey anytime. I am realizing right

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Speaker 1: now I'm really bad at knowing who made a movie,

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Speaker 1: who the director is, and I feel like I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that Cameron Crowe did all those other movies like WHOA,

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Speaker 1: What a career, What a legacy? The legacy that Cameron

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Speaker 1: crow leaves is immeasurable. And we'll talk about this. But

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Speaker 1: so Cameron Crowe wrote the screenplay and then also wrote

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Speaker 1: the book that this is adapted from. Amy Heckerling directed

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Speaker 1: the film, and I found out that Amy Hackerling was

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Speaker 1: my age when she directed this movie, and it made

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Speaker 1: me feel like ship made me feel bad but good

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Speaker 1: for her, good for her, but maybe feel like sh Sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about your your relationship in history with

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Speaker 1: the movie. Uh, page will start with you. Um, I

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Speaker 1: had never seen it before. I have seen almost famous,

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Speaker 1: I have seen Aloha. You were one of the fourteen

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Speaker 1: people that saw Aloha. You know. I saw it as

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Speaker 1: a goof at that two dollar theater and it was

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Speaker 1: so it was like bad in ways I had not expected.

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Speaker 1: It was like I was confused during it. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what was happening. I had never seen Past Times

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Speaker 1: a Ridgemont High. I feel like it was a classic

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Speaker 1: that just I skipped for whatever reason. And Emily suggested

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Speaker 1: as a very like mole movie. Um, and I watched

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago for the very first time. Okay, also, Emily,

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Speaker 1: that brings to you. I saw it when I was

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Speaker 1: like younger. I think probably like twice, like once when

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Speaker 1: I was like younger, younger once it's like a teenager.

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Speaker 1: I could be absolutely wrong about this, but I could

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Speaker 1: be mixing up with something else. I have the memory

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Speaker 1: that maybe my mom recommended I watched it potentially is

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Speaker 1: like like maybe remembered it as like one of those

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Speaker 1: like classic eighties movies and not you know, but I

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Speaker 1: I could also be wrong on that. But I really

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Speaker 1: liked it. And then I hadn't seen it in years,

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Speaker 1: and I rewatched it last night. Um And I had

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Speaker 1: remembered so little about It's a wild watch. I had

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Speaker 1: seen it at least one I think once before, probably

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Speaker 1: in college, because I was like, oh, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: one of those iconic movies that you know, I have

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Speaker 1: to see. I didn't remember a single thing from it

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Speaker 1: except for like Jeff Spiccoli being like a stoner surfer dude.

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Speaker 1: Like that was the one thing, the one aspect of

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Speaker 1: it that I remembered, and nothing else. It all registered

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Speaker 1: in my memory. So when I watched it again a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago, I was just like, oh wait,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Jason Lee is in this, Judge Reinhold is in this.

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Speaker 1: Judge Reinhold is extremely in this, and you didn't remember,

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Speaker 1: like what the story was. The Force Whittaker is in

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Speaker 1: this movie. Nick Cage who is credited as Nicholas Coppola

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Speaker 1: before he was like, oh wait, nepotism maybe a bad

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Speaker 1: look for me. It is, so yeah, I don't have

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Speaker 1: a long history with this at all, but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there it is. I hadn't seen it either. I just

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Speaker 1: don't live as if you've been listening to the Cheffer.

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Speaker 1: While I just don't like movie most movies released in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. It's a time and culture that I

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Speaker 1: find very weird. It's pretty toxic time and annoying that

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Speaker 1: in like the early two thousands are like two times

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Speaker 1: that you're just like, ah, yeah, it's a very Republican

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Speaker 1: presidency going on right now. Um, So you know, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't seen it. Now I can't say that anymore, and

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Speaker 1: that's my I did wish I had seen it when

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Speaker 1: I was younger, because I felt like I kept watching

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Speaker 1: it and being like, honey, no, don't I want to

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Speaker 1: stay up top. I do like this movie. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a good movie, and I don't like most eighties movies.

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Speaker 1: I don't like John Hughes movies, but this one feels

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Speaker 1: different in a way that I think I kind of

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Speaker 1: think it holds up. Honestly, I think there's parts of it,

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Speaker 1: some parts they did do and then others really don't

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Speaker 1: um and we'll talk about them. But I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you're comparing this movie to other, like comparable mainstream eighties

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Speaker 1: teen comedies, I would say the most notable of those

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Speaker 1: are things like Revenge of the Nerds, sixteen Candles, Breakfast Club, Porkis,

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Speaker 1: like are so flagrantly problematic and toxic and horrible that

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Speaker 1: fast times. The Ridgemont High does feel a little bit

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Speaker 1: more progressive, but there are still it felt like reeler,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense because it's like based on camera, like

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Speaker 1: the backstories that Cameron Crow under cover actually based on

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Speaker 1: his experiences on girls. A weird man. He's a weird man,

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Speaker 1: but I guess he was young enough. He was like

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Speaker 1: in his early twenties and he went to high school

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Speaker 1: and he wrote about the I think it was in

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Speaker 1: Santa Something Claremont, San Diego, Dimont High in San Diego.

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Speaker 1: He yeah, he went undercover with like in participation with

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Speaker 1: the school's administration, like they know what they knew what

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Speaker 1: was happening ing. Uh. He went undercover originally with the

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Speaker 1: intention of writing like a nonfiction book, but then it

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Speaker 1: turned and then he turned it into a novel as

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Speaker 1: he was never been kissing in in San Diego. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then that book was published in eighty one, and

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Speaker 1: then the film adaptation came out in eighty two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it was like bought as a movie before the

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Speaker 1: book even like came at Cameron Crowe was a hot

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Speaker 1: property at this at this time because he was like

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Speaker 1: he started writing for Rolling Stone when he was sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and that's what Almost Famous is about. And there's I

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Speaker 1: don't know, he was like a little young writer prodigy

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Speaker 1: um that everyone was really excited about. And then Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Town came out and that's just sort of the story

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Speaker 1: of this. I forgot to say, I hate Elizabeth Town.

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Speaker 1: Actually really loved Almost Famous growing up, and now the

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Speaker 1: way you guys are talking about it, I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think most people do. I just find it. I

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Speaker 1: just say, who came? I really liked it, and then

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't know what changed in me,

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Speaker 1: but I just I don't know. I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: like it now. I also didn't know a camera crew

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Speaker 1: also wrote and directed say anything, which I have not. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's that's when we must cover it. So I know

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Speaker 1: that's like on the must he's yeah, he's where isn't he?

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Speaker 1: But there? I do like it feels like this movie

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Speaker 1: is like written. It feels more authentic than other eighties

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Speaker 1: high school movies, which like yeah, because it's based on

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Speaker 1: at least some kernels of stuff that he witnessed. Um,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of it was like I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're it's, it's it's there's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: going on. Should we should we talk about it? Let's

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Speaker 1: dive into the recap, so we meet some teens who

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Speaker 1: have jobs at the Ridgemont Mall. Oh, I should also say,

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Speaker 1: I think hard of the Other reason I watched the

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Speaker 1: first time when I was younger is because the exterior

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Speaker 1: of the mall is my childhood mall. No, that's not

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Speaker 1: the interior, but the exterior shots are the Santa Monica plays,

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Speaker 1: So that was big to me. Okay, having your mom

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Speaker 1: featured in a prominent movie is a moment. That's I'm

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Speaker 1: thrilled for you. That's really exciting. It is so weird

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Speaker 1: how many movies they shoot the exterior mall is different

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Speaker 1: from the interior mall. Now, are any of the malls

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Speaker 1: the Glendelle Galeria our favorite mall on the Pactol cast,

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Speaker 1: of course it's well not the Americana Well, okay, I

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Speaker 1: you know, America Guy is a pretentious elitist ship whole

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Speaker 1: without sand there. I there's the Dungan dunnuts is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're the like there, beautiful partnership, symbiotic relationship. The many

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Speaker 1: things I love about Mantonka is um, they don't choose

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Speaker 1: between the America Ga there. We don't compare beautiful women,

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Speaker 1: beautiful powerful women don't need to be compared their neighbors.

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Speaker 1: And that's see I'm die hard. Glendelle Galleria stand they

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Speaker 1: have and we can't take that away true anyway. So

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Speaker 1: the mall is where they work, and we meet Mark

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Speaker 1: Ratner a k rat He works at the movie theater.

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Speaker 1: His pal Mike Demone scalps concert tickets for a living

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Speaker 1: across the way Stacy. That's Jennifer Jason Lee and her

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Speaker 1: friend Linda Phoebe Kates work at a pizza place. We

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Speaker 1: see Stacy gets hit on by an older guy. She

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Speaker 1: tells him that she is nineteen. We find out that

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Speaker 1: she's actually fifteen, he's twenty six. They exchange numbers. Oh honey,

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Speaker 1: no moment. Yeah. We meet Brad Judge Reinholtz character. He

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Speaker 1: works at a burger joint. And then we meet Jeff

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Speaker 1: Spicoli Sean Penn of course, and he is a stoner

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Speaker 1: surfer dude who just kind of hangs around sound and

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Speaker 1: he seems to not wear a shirt very often. Classic

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Speaker 1: San Diego, right, and then we cut to Ridgemont High

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Speaker 1: where there are fast times. Um. Brad seems kind of

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Speaker 1: like a big man on campus. He's got a cool car.

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Speaker 1: Spicoli is stoned and he's late to us history class

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Speaker 1: with Mr Hand who gives him a hard time. Then

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Speaker 1: we cut this Mr Hand or Mr Ham Mr Hand.

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Speaker 1: Really the cracks are starting to show. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: his name that character like the real person it has

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Speaker 1: a name that is similar or something. Yeah, like he

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Speaker 1: just was lazy about changing it to something could be.

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Speaker 1: Then we see Stacy and Linda lunch. They're talking about sex.

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Speaker 1: Linda is more sexually experienced than Stay. She's also a senior.

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Speaker 1: Stacy is an incoming ashman. Linda is a senior. I

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Speaker 1: believe Mike is a senior, whereas Mark Ratner is also

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Speaker 1: a freshman. Right, And I do like the like when

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Speaker 1: to a two year age difference feels like gigantic and

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Speaker 1: seeing that as always, I love the Phoebe Kate's character

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Speaker 1: because it's so she's so absurd. It's like she's, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she seems more experienced, sure, but she's like that is

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Speaker 1: such a real person who's just like lying about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: totally totally. I know how to do. I definitely have

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Speaker 1: a fiance, but he just lives somewhere else. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I know everything and I'm going to teach you. I

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Speaker 1: was shocked that there was confirmation in story that her

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Speaker 1: I thought the twist was going to be that her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend wasn't real because like she's I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: set up like he might not know. She's like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's not around, he's older, and then he sends her

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Speaker 1: a letter at the end. I'm like, how old is

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Speaker 1: he well that I feel like it's so clear that

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Speaker 1: it's like this man that she thinks is like this

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Speaker 1: thing to and he's like he's just so dumb in

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Speaker 1: her own way about it's sadder than I see. I

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Speaker 1: think she wrote that letter as part of her bruise.

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Speaker 1: Sam's a scamp. I Like there's like those little moments

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Speaker 1: to where she like they're talking about like, oh, do

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Speaker 1: you come every time you have sex? And she's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you're seventeen, yes, okay. So then meanwhile Rat

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Speaker 1: is developing a crush on Stacy. They have biology class together,

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Speaker 1: and but Stacy goes on a date with that twenty

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Speaker 1: six year old guy. They have sex a k a.

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Speaker 1: A statutory rape happens, and then which is like very

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Speaker 1: much written like kind of eighties style dodge where he's

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Speaker 1: like you're actually nineteen, right, and she's like, ah, Hi.

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Speaker 1: Questions about that part two, which is if he's six,

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Speaker 1: why doesn't he have a home? They can to where

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Speaker 1: is that point? I was so overwhelmed by the rape

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Speaker 1: that I didn't I was like, oh, yeah, he doesn't live,

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Speaker 1: Like what is that? Maybe he's like married or something?

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Speaker 1: Where God, yeah, that entire I mean, that's like one

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Speaker 1: of the worst, like because you go to like a

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Speaker 1: baseball dugout and it's a wild like that's been the

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Speaker 1: pretty much the beginning of the movie. Yeah. So it's

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Speaker 1: very very jarring. Yeah yeah, and the movie doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to think that much of it. It's like one of

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Speaker 1: those very weird, like culturally dissonant like, oh, this was

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Speaker 1: not a big deal, like it happens. Yeah. Um. He

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Speaker 1: sends her flowers after this, but then he never calls

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Speaker 1: her again. She never hears from him after that. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we get this reveal that Stacy and Brad are brother

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Speaker 1: and sister. Oh my goodness. Brad, he's having a tough time.

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Speaker 1: He gets fired from his job, and then his girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: who he was intending to break up with, breaks up

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Speaker 1: with him first, citing the exact same reason that he

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Speaker 1: was going to use. Then Rat asks Stacy out and

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Speaker 1: they go out to dinner. She takes them back to

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Speaker 1: her house. They start kissing and she tries to take

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Speaker 1: things a little further, but he is visibly not comfortable

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Speaker 1: with going any further, so he makes an excuse and leaves.

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Speaker 1: He's not like the other boys. He's not nice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about a little bit um. And

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Speaker 1: then we see Spole is getting in trouble at school.

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Speaker 1: He's dreaming about being a surf champion. He's driving Forest

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Speaker 1: Whitaker's car around like the big football stars, and his

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Speaker 1: car is a big deal. Car is a big deal,

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Speaker 1: but Speccoli crashes it, and in order to like make

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Speaker 1: it so he doesn't get in trouble, he makes it

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Speaker 1: seem like the rival school that they're about to have

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Speaker 1: a big football game with like messed up Forest Whittaker's

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Speaker 1: car right before the big game. Meanwhile, Stacy isn't sure

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Speaker 1: if Rat likes her, but then he and his friend

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Speaker 1: Mike come over for a swim. H Linda is also there.

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Speaker 1: Judge Reinhold jerks off to her in the bathroom. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that home. And I feel like the scene

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Speaker 1: that people remember from this movie probably i've seen I've

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Speaker 1: seen that scene before and I didn't even know what

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Speaker 1: this movie was about. Yeah. Meanwhile, Stacy starts to develop

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Speaker 1: a crush on Mike. He comes over to her place,

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Speaker 1: they start kissing, they have sex, and then he comes

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Speaker 1: really fast and then very abruptly leaves. Then later at school,

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Speaker 1: he blows Stacy off, and then sometime later after that,

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Speaker 1: she tells him that she's pregnant. Gregnant, She has already

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Speaker 1: arranged to have an abortion, but she wants him to

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Speaker 1: pay for half of it and give her a ride

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Speaker 1: to the clinic, which he agrees to, but then when

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Speaker 1: the day actually rolls around, he is nowhere to be found,

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Speaker 1: so instead she gets a ride from her brother Brad.

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Speaker 1: She's like, dropped me off at the bowling alley, I'm

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Speaker 1: going bowling, But then he sees her like run across

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Speaker 1: the street to the clinic, so he picks her up

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Speaker 1: from the clinic and he agrees to keep her secret.

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Speaker 1: He's like, you don't bowl like that? That was his

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Speaker 1: rationale behind calling her bluff right, And then Linda finds

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Speaker 1: out what ship head Mike was to Stacy, so she

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Speaker 1: sticks up for her friend takes revenge on him by

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Speaker 1: spray painting Prick on his car and his locker, and

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Speaker 1: then Rat confronts Mike about being shitty and like getting

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Speaker 1: with Stacy behind his back. Then the kids go to

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Speaker 1: prom you gotta at We're going to prom do, But

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Speaker 1: I like this one. This one wasn't made that big

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Speaker 1: of a deal of it. Wasn't like everyone's like, we're

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Speaker 1: all gearing up for prom. Yeah, it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: slice a life moment in their lives, some teens stance

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Speaker 1: and yeah, nothing wrong with that's a place for everyone

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Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, and then Mike and Stacy reconnect at

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Speaker 1: the mall. There's a scene at the end when Brad

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Speaker 1: is working at a convenience store where he stops a robbery.

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Speaker 1: So it's Rat and Stacy reconnect at the mall. Oh

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Speaker 1: what did I say? Oh yeah, sorry, So Rat and

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Speaker 1: Stacy reconnect. And then the scene with the robbery, Spicccoli

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Speaker 1: like distracts the robber and then Brad saves the day,

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Speaker 1: which is a very I had to double check to

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Speaker 1: be like, did the movie just end? But that's where

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Speaker 1: it ends. That's where it ends. We get all these

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Speaker 1: like the title cards of like and then here's what

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Speaker 1: they got up to after this big eighties movie thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kind of appreciate it. I want to know what

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Speaker 1: happens all. I want to know the day they die.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the story. Let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and then we'll come right back for the discussion. And

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Speaker 1: we're back, thank god. Putting on couldn't couldn't win another second.

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Speaker 1: So where to start? Well, something something great is that

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Speaker 1: this was Amy Heckling's directorial debut. As you were saying,

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Speaker 1: for those that are not heck ruling heads. She goes

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Speaker 1: on to direct most notably clueless, but also, uh, luke,

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Speaker 1: who's talking? If you're as talking head, which I am,

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Speaker 1: have you seen that? Yeah? I love those movies. The

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Speaker 1: babest Kids. It's a kid. The baby's talk honestly, barely

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Speaker 1: remember I think that. Yeah, there's a both movies open.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's even a third one who remembers. But there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of oh yeah, there's like's talking to and

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Speaker 1: luk who's talking now? Now he was talking to a

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Speaker 1: spelled t o O or okayfirming? Yeah, I think like

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Speaker 1: Bruce Willis voice is one of the babies. There's always

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Speaker 1: like an opening sequence of a bunch of sperms swimming

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Speaker 1: to fertilize an egg. Perfect and then should begin Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they should all begin that, because every sect starts ultimately. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I used to love those movies when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: But I could not tell you a simple thing about

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Speaker 1: new detail about you. You've seen every Look who's talking? Um?

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Speaker 1: So clueless and look he's talking and a National lampoon movie, right,

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Speaker 1: So she's like a legendary director. This was her her

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Speaker 1: first feature that she directed, so that's great. We very

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Speaker 1: rarely had to cover movies that are directed by women

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Speaker 1: at all, especially comedies, especially comedies. Yes, I was surprised.

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Speaker 1: I guess not surprised because we live in a world

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Speaker 1: where everything's horrible butty society, I suppose would have maybe

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Speaker 1: expected a movie directed by a woman to not fall

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Speaker 1: into some of the trappings that we see happen in

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Speaker 1: movies that are directed by men, most notably the male

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Speaker 1: gaze dream sequence that Judge Reinhold has where he is

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Speaker 1: masturbating to a topless Phoebe Kates. That was, Yeah, that that.

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Speaker 1: I want to spring to Amy Hackerling's defense a little

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Speaker 1: bit here by just um, you know, she's twenty seven

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Speaker 1: when she directed this movie. It was her first gig. Ever,

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Speaker 1: I don't think she was really in a position to

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Speaker 1: be pushing back a lot, and she like goes on

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Speaker 1: I think to kind of course correct on stuff like

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Speaker 1: that train movies like Clueless, But yeah, no, I totally

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Speaker 1: see what you mean. Um, that scene is so weird. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I it's the iconic masturbation scene. I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that that scene was a fantasy that doesn't happen in

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Speaker 1: the because it was like when I when we meet

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Speaker 1: Linda's character, I'm like, she doesn't seem like she would

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Speaker 1: just do that because she doesn't. But it's the only

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Speaker 1: scene that anyone like can recall top of head from

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Speaker 1: this movie. And it's so like I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: one of those situations where I'm not going to like

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Speaker 1: phrase this correctly, but like where the writing and the

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Speaker 1: like cinematography, it's like a little bit dissonant where it's

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Speaker 1: because it's like Linda's character isn't like that, But then

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Speaker 1: the visual was go way out of their way to

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Speaker 1: give you this big nipple moment that was just what

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Speaker 1: movies were like. You just did get to see everyone's boobs,

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Speaker 1: like I feel like, I don't know, and ultimately all

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Speaker 1: the men are made fools up. That is like that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. It's not like, oh my god, this like

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere fantasy where he gets to fuck her.

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Speaker 1: It's like he's jacking off the bathroom. She walks in

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Speaker 1: on him, like oh my god, and he's embarrassed. So

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Speaker 1: I kind of don't think it's like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I think in context, like in the context of the movie,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with it. It's just like

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Speaker 1: it is when one of those things where it's like

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Speaker 1: a NATS the scene that like stands the test of time.

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Speaker 1: I think just because that was for a lot of

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Speaker 1: young boys who watched it, they did jack off to that,

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Speaker 1: and therefore it was what they remember. But yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is weird that, like I had never seen the movie,

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Speaker 1: but I knew that scene. There's so many like better scenes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like actually, and then the fact that that fantasy, which

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Speaker 1: is like very clearly framed as like a dream fantasy sequence,

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Speaker 1: is juxtaposed against what's actually happening where she's like getting

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Speaker 1: out of the pool in a very neutral, non sexy

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Speaker 1: way and she's like in my ears and yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I I appreciated that. So she's not

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Speaker 1: like her character by the judge Reine horn character is

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Speaker 1: like made like a sexy meal of by just like

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Speaker 1: his horny teen brain. And also they are the sage,

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Speaker 1: which is because she's a senior too, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not like his like little sisters like best freshman friend.

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Speaker 1: It's like they're both seventeen. Yeah, yeah, it's I don't

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Speaker 1: even know how to, like, I guess, articulate exactly why

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Speaker 1: it's like to me because it's like in the story

404
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Speaker 1: it makes sense, but something about it is just I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, just the choice to include it,

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Speaker 1: it all in the way that it is included, the

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Speaker 1: way that it's it's a very eight decision. Yes. And

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Speaker 1: also just like the way female nudity is treated in

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Speaker 1: this movie is so of its time of like you

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Speaker 1: see a lot of female nudity, and I mean you

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Speaker 1: see you know, Sean Penn shirtless, but it's not that

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Speaker 1: like I feel like that's just sort of starting to

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Speaker 1: happen like now ish in like shows like Euphoria, where

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Speaker 1: it's like in shows about teen sexuality, you never see

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Speaker 1: male nudity really at all, and it's this like taboo

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Speaker 1: thing still um where like in this movie you see

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Speaker 1: like both female lead characters almost fully nude. When you

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Speaker 1: see fully nude and Jennifer Jason Lee and then you

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Speaker 1: see Phoebe kids almost nude, and with the men, it's

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Speaker 1: like that's just not an expectation that people had this.

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Speaker 1: I was actually thinking of euphoria while I was watching this,

422
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: and how well just in the sense where I was like,

423
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: there is like a fair amount of like boobs, but

424
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: like euphoria is like if we're talking worse but DICKI.

425
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: But also when they show boobs it's like in a

426
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: doggy style, like you know whatever, it's more gazy. Where

427
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: is this? I feel like, I don't know. This is

428
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: almost just like a result of the time that's just like,

429
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: so we'll have the part of the movie where we

430
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: show the main characters boobs, like I kind of feel

431
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: like the Jennifer Jason Lee like when her boobs are out,

432
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: it's like fairly sexual. I don't know, it's well, she's

433
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: pretty sex she is, but there's I don't know the

434
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: way where I just I was thinking about this show

435
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 1: that was made literally this year that is also supposed

436
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: to be teens having sex. It was like so sexual,

437
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: I guess what I like about you for it because

438
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: I don't like, I mean, there's whatever it shows fine,

439
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 1: but like the at least it's like equal opportunity nudity

440
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: where it's just like this is like like it also

441
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: I feel like kind of speaks to like who they're

442
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: making the movie for. You know, it's just like catering

443
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: to male gaze stuff, and like the female guys are

444
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: the straight and gas or whatever is like not really

445
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: like you get Sean Penn's abs a couple of times,

446
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: but other than that, it's like the women are when

447
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: we're sexualized because character are we supposed to think he's

448
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: like a hot guy? That question? Think you see him,

449
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: he's like the surfer dude and he has like the

450
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: hot babes at the beach and I'm like, well that's

451
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: another Yeah, that's that's about him. Yeah, I don't I

452
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: don't think so, Okay, that's a relief. Take a question.

453
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: I kind of do you think any of the guys

454
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: in it are actually supposed to be like someone that

455
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: we're supposed to think of as hunky? I don't know,

456
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: because Brad is always just kind of like keeps being

457
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: put in this position where he just keeps like kind

458
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: of being a loser. Yeah, and then at the beginning

459
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: I think he's supposed to and then they starting downhill,

460
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: and then like Mike Damon is such a cartoonishly's ball,

461
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: and then Mark Ratner just such a like sweet like nerd. Yeah,

462
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the thing I do like about

463
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 1: this movie is and and talking about how it feels

464
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: realistic to being a teenager. Is things like the fact

465
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: that losing your cool job just completely ruins your status,

466
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: like little tiny things just like ruin you. When in

467
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: the beginning he's going to break up with his girlfriend,

468
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm a successful guy, and he's like he

469
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: cooks the burgers in a fast food joint. He's like,

470
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: I have a job. Going back to the sex scene,

471
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: especially okay, so the first one that we see between

472
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: Stacy and that twenty six year old guy, So, okay,

473
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: it is a statutory rape. She is underage. The movie

474
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: excuses it by like him thinking that she is a

475
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: He doesn't think yeah, but she he like barely tries

476
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: to find out. And he excuses it because at the

477
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: end of the day, it's like he's clearly painted as

478
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: like a bad, bad guy. I don't know who does

479
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: suspect that she is too young because he keeps asking it.

480
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would say it excuses it,

481
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: but I don't know. The movie doesn't treat it like

482
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: that's what that is. And then also another huge issue

483
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: I have with this is that we're seeing we're seeing

484
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: her nudity while the actor, while Jennifer Jason Lee was

485
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: twenty at the time of filming, or at least at

486
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: the time of the release, her character is supposed to

487
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: be fifteen. And I just, I mean, call me a puritan,

488
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: but I have a huge problem with showing nudity of

489
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: characters who are who are supposed to be underage. That's

490
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: the I mean, that's the same thing with you for

491
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: you though, which I mean, I haven't seen that show,

492
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: but every sexy teen show that's ever been Yeah, isn't

493
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: that as long as it's like adult actors, Like that's

494
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: just kind of like the name of the high school.

495
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: I mean, And it's like I do think that like teenagers,

496
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: it like can just like benefit from I don't know,

497
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: like seeing teen sex shows when I was a teenager,

498
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: Like some of it sucked me up and others times

499
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: it was helpful and good. I don't I just don't

500
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: think it needs to ever be Like characters who are

501
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be teenagers, we don't need to see them naked.

502
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: I kind of fair, I guess, I never I don't

503
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: know it's fair. But then that's like if we're talking

504
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: about that with that movie, it's also the whole larger

505
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: cultural movement where sexy teen shows and stuff really one

506
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: of the hugest genres right, definitely made me very uncomfortable.

507
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: Like that scene. I don't know, I I do think

508
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: the movie kind of gives them a pass in general.

509
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: I think that like I don't know, cutting out like

510
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: teen sex stuff in general just kind of like limits

511
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: the kind of stories that you can tell. I mean,

512
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: it could be implied that they have sex, or it

513
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: can be shot in such a way where it's clear

514
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: that they're having sex, but to show nudity, to show

515
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: like what's supposed to be fifteen year old breasts is like, no,

516
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: think that's doesn't I don't think we need that. Like

517
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: most sexy team shows are on the c W and

518
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: they don't show actually right, But I'm just bringing in

519
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: the euphoria thing again. It's like it is the same

520
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: thing as this thing that is happening in two thousand nineteen,

521
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: but even more so. And I'm most most things over

522
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: the years have not showed nudity, and that has been fun.

523
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: That's why we have nine O two and O and

524
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: the other like those sex and not not a tip

525
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 1: to be seen and that's totally fine. I feel like,

526
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: like talking about whether or not the movie like dismisses it,

527
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: I feel like, um, and I don't know if it's

528
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: just a result of me watching this when I'm older,

529
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: but I feel like there was this undercurrent of like

530
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: the issue of not getting information about sex and sex said,

531
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: and like having parents around like tell you anything, and

532
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: she she purely relies on her friend who's full of

533
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: ship to tell her what she should be doing, is

534
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: kind of the one who encourages it too, and it's

535
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: like she's wrong. It almost feels like she had that

536
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: experience when like another older friend telling her this is

537
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: what she should do. And I feel like it was

538
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: that was an interesting and kind of real thing to

539
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: me of like, oh, you just like don't know what's

540
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: going on and you just trust someone who's cool to

541
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: you or whatever. That's kind of I think the whole

542
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: realism of it is. I think that in this movie,

543
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: it's like Stacy is fifteen. She's basically pressured by this

544
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: friend who keeps going like I have a thirteen, that's

545
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: the problem. You've gotta have sex she's basically pressured by

546
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: this friend into having these bad experiences, which like older

547
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: men taking advantage of younger girls figuring stuff out is

548
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: a tale as old as human kind, and that happens,

549
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: but it doesn't like ruin her. And I think that's

550
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: what's kind of like revolutionary about this movie at the time,

551
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: Like she has this experience, the statutory rape experience, she

552
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: like has sex with this guy who's like a ship

553
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: and like has like an abortion, and then like at

554
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's like, and I know

555
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: that it's kind of aggressive to not like you know

556
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: that it does not acknowledge any psychological effects of those things,

557
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: but also that it's don't it doesn't judge her or anything.

558
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: Like at the end, she's she's like, I don't care

559
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: about sex. I want to have romance, and she gets

560
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: with this guy. Now she has like a nice, like

561
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: fifteen year old boyfriend and is like moving on an

562
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: ant appropriate boyfriend named rat there. Yeah, No, I mean

563
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: I think that there's like a lot of things with

564
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: Stacy's character that is done in like a way that

565
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: it feels grounded and right. It just like the statutory

566
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: right showing it is I feel like I was not

567
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: did not need to see it, and just the I

568
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: don't know, like for a movie that's made for teens,

569
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: I feel like you have to like at least make

570
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: some effort to be a little explicit about like that

571
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: was not okay because I feel like they kind of

572
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: skirt it but it's not. And it's like also very

573
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: possible that like Stacy didn't fully hadn't fully like processed

574
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: it and there, but it's just kind of like left there.

575
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: And then you know what I thinking when I was

576
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: watching this, because I knew it was like based on

577
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: a book, it really had the feeling to me of

578
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: when you watch a movie that's based on a book

579
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: that you've read and you're like, they skipped the part.

580
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: How do you understand? Like the first time I ever

581
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: saw like a Harry Potter movie after reading the Harry

582
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: Potter books where I was like, this is too fast,

583
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: where it almost felt like whenever they would like skip

584
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: over like someone processing or having an emotional reaction, I

585
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: was like, maybe it's in the book. Probably not, but

586
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know. Feminist icon Cameron Crow, we have

587
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: to assume he addressed it. But yeah, that that whole

588
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: I mean, story point in general is just like I

589
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: don't even I don't even know if it was like

590
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: mishandled as much as it was just not at all.

591
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: It was just kind of like left there in a

592
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of weird way. Yeah, but I think that's because

593
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: the only people she has to talk to are like

594
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: other teens who don't know that it's like a bad thing.

595
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: We never even see the parents, yeah, which that was

596
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: kind of cool, Like I was like, no parent movies.

597
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: Nines is when parents started being characters and stuff talking

598
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: about those like teen shows again, the parents started being

599
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: hot and also becoming characters with their own drama, like

600
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: nineties early two thousand's. I feel like that started becoming

601
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: a horny parents always have an affairs with other parents. Um. Yeah.

602
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: And then I mean, I I, okay, can we talk

603
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: about that. The friendship between Linda and Stacy, we like

604
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: sort of started to already, but I think its like, again,

605
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: it's like one of those very realistic friendships that will

606
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: happen in high school where you're it's like a two

607
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: year age gap feels like a million years. And like,

608
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this girl in high school I

609
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: knew named Carrissa that I would have died for her,

610
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: and I like she was sucking genius when she was

611
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: the queen of sex, and I would have done and

612
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: I would have done anything she told me to. I've

613
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: made my dad like drive me to a Bright Eyes

614
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: concert and then drive around the block for three hours

615
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: while I went to the Bright Eyed concerts so Carrissa

616
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: would see me there and think I was cool. I

617
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: would have done anything. And so I'm like, oh, this

618
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: is very much like you know, a girl two years

619
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: older than you that who you would just do like

620
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: anything for, and that I mean, I think that my

621
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: main and I like that, even though Linda like and

622
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: I don't think if I was a teenager watching this movie,

623
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have realized that she's full

624
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: of ship. I think I probably would have just thought

625
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: she was cool. This was also the first time I

626
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: put together that she was older. Oh, I don't think

627
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: when I was younger and watching it, I realized that. Okay,

628
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if I even realize that until you

629
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: said it today, because talks about when she gets that letter,

630
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: and it's like he says he's not coming to my graduation, right,

631
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: and then in the end, thing it's like she's at

632
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: Ridgemont College now living with her Like I don't know,

633
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: but I mean I like that they're like friendship is

634
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean it's based a lot of it's based on misinformation,

635
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: but like good things about it are they're like supportive

636
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: of each other in their weird sex endeavors. I like

637
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: when Linda like super jumps to her defense. Yeah, when

638
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: she's going through the abortion thing is it's not anything

639
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: where anyone passes judgment on her, including her brother. I

640
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: thought was really cool. That's like I feel like that's

641
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: a huge moment. Mostly, Yeah, it's worth just a whole

642
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: other conversation that we can get to. But it's been

643
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: in general like they have, uh friendship that's based on

644
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: misinformation and like maybe like some failures of parenting and

645
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: their job together. And I think my main thing was,

646
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: like I like their friendship. I just like wish that

647
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: they like we knew stuff about them that wasn't just

648
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: like a relationships. Yeah, I also do like and well,

649
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings about this because part of it's

650
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: pretty problematic, but um, Linda has a pretty just kind

651
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: of casual, cavalier attitude about sex where she's just like, hey,

652
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: it's no big deal, like whatever, And like I like

653
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: to see that attitude on the screen. Not to say

654
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: that everyone needs to have that, but we usually see

655
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: like girls being like sex is sacred and beautiful and

656
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: I can only have it with my husband, and like

657
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: male characters get to be promiscuous right out consequence exactly.

658
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: So to see you a girl. And we talked about this,

659
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: I think a little bit on a bonus episode on

660
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: American Pie, but the Natasha Leon character has a pretty

661
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: similar just like casual like sex is whatever, it's no

662
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: big deal. Again, just something I appreciate seeing now when Linda,

663
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: part of her attitude is that, yeah, fifteen year old

664
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: friend of mine, go have sex with this twenty six

665
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: year old man. My theory is Linda's a virgin. I

666
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: think Linda's virgin, and she's absolutely I mean they're all

667
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: lying like when like even she's the only one telling

668
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 1: the truth. No she's not. Because after that Mike thing,

669
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: when Linda's like day last and she's like fifteen to

670
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: twenty minutes and then she's like, yeah, my boyfriend last,

671
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: like and she's like I thought he's a thirty Oh yeah,

672
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: Linda's a virgin. But then also like Brad right in

673
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: the beginning when he's talking to the other person at

674
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: work and he's like yeah, and she's great in the sack,

675
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: and then like he turns to her to talk and

676
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't want to have sex with you. Yea. Yeah.

677
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: Everyone is like, yeah, I think that Linda probably is

678
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: a virgin. I got very strong Mina Suvari in American

679
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: Beauty Vibes, so yeah, and you know, I thought that

680
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 1: movie but like like that characters are like, yeah, I'm

681
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: so sexually experienced, and then we find out that she

682
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: is in fact a virgin. Um, So yeah, it was weird.

683
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: At the beginning of that movie, it's not about like

684
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: if it's right for her to have sex with the

685
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: older guy. It's about how do we get him to

686
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: agree to this? Like all you gotta do is tell

687
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: him your nineteen that's the believable age because it's not eighteen.

688
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: Totally believe you, which it's like I never did that,

689
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 1: but I like, I never actually got to the point

690
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: of having sex with someone because that would have been

691
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: like scary. But I certainly like if a man was

692
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: Florida with me at Starbucks and was like, where do

693
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: you go to college? I'm fourteen, I'm like I'm nineteen.

694
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: I go to SMC. Which it's not like I'm actually

695
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: going to entrap them, like I'm not gonna have stuck

696
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 1: with them, but it's like you're safe. That's the thing.

697
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, even if it's not about trying to

698
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: have sex, you do just want to appear older. There

699
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: is just a thing if it's like Okay, I'm gonna

700
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: go with this, gonna I'm gonna run with this. I

701
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: would go on like message boards and pretend to be

702
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: older and just talk to someone for fifteen minutes and

703
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: then get scared and delete the account. Is a relatable experience.

704
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: Let's take another quick break and we'll come right back. Okay,

705
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: here we're back. Here we are like, oh my GOSHU

706
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: should we talk about the abortion that? Yes, we shall.

707
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: Emily was saying this earlier. I was like very impressed

708
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: with how this movie handled it, especially for like the eighties,

709
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: where like they're like John Hughes wouldn't have handled it

710
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: this well, like they're Johnny has doesn't who like handles

711
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: nothing well kind of Um. I thought it was like

712
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: sometimes in this movie I find it frustrating that they

713
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: just present stuff and sort of have no comment on it.

714
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: But for this like story point, I thought it was

715
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: like really cool where like, you know, she has Stacy

716
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: has sex with Mike, she gets pregnant. She barely has sex,

717
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: which that's god. That scene is so upseting. So she

718
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: like Mike's insigner for two seconds, but he's very fertile,

719
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: which is another beautiful humiliating moment for a man or

720
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: a horrible boy in that movie or them get humiliated.

721
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: Such a cool guy, so funny, like oh he's a

722
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: ticket scalper's a huge loser. Uh. But she like, I

723
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: liked how that scene played out where it starts by

724
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: making a fool of Mike because he's like flirting with

725
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: a girl who doesn't seem to be interested in him,

726
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: and Stacy goes out to him, is like I need

727
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: to talk to you, and he's like, no, big is

728
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: big that she's pregnant. He immediately gets angry and blames

729
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: her and says it was her idea, and she shuts

730
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,479
Speaker 1: it down right away. She was like no. He also says,

731
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: how do you know it's mine, implying like, oh, you're

732
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: probably like sleeping around with a bunch of different guys

733
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: might not be mine. She's like, it's definitely yours. Also,

734
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: don't say it was my idea, And he does take

735
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: it back, and he's just parenting something someone told him

736
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 1: you're supposed to say. At the older ones just seemed

737
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: like they got some bad advice from someone else older.

738
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: And then they're giving this young and then and then

739
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: she like, he is like, oh, well there. It seems

740
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: like he's sort of like telling her what an abortion

741
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: is and she's like, no, I know what one is,

742
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: and she already has it planned out. Yeah, Like and

743
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: then she's like and I want you to pay for half.

744
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: I was like, that was all pretty good, right, and

745
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: then and then she has the abortion. We see her

746
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: right afterwards. She seems and then like, Emily, you kind

747
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: of brought this up, but she seems like physically and

748
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: emotionally fine, because I think a lot of media would

749
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: have you believe that, like, I mean, an abortion, depending

750
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: on who's getting it, can be a very difficult physically

751
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: and emotionally taxing thing. But it seems like for Stacy

752
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: she bounced right back from it. It didn't like emotionally

753
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: ruin her. She's not like just sail regret and regret

754
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: and remorse exactly. She's And then when her brother realizes

755
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: what is happening and he picks her up from the clinic,

756
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: he doesn't judge her, he doesn't slut shame her, and

757
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: then he's like, oh, you're hungry, let's go get some food.

758
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: Like he just he treats her with respects very sweet

759
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: because it's like he drops her off then like in

760
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: his rear view mirrors sees her run across the street

761
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: from the bowling alley, so he's just waiting outside the

762
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: whole time, which is and then she just comes down

763
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: and because like no one's there to pick her up,

764
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: and then she's just like, Brad, don't tell my mom

765
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: and dad and he's like no. The thing that's weird

766
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: about that is like, um, it's sort of implied that Mike,

767
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: he tries to get the money, couldn't and he couldn't

768
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: and that's why he didn't come, Like he would have

769
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: given her a ride if he but he couldn't get

770
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 1: the money or something, right, which is like I don't

771
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: know why they went, And like maybe that's another like

772
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: very specific true thing that Cameron Crowe heard about because

773
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm just like I didn't know, because I was like,

774
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: why include that? But maybe that's just I don't know,

775
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: Like he Mike ohs, Stacy an apology and most of all, yeah,

776
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: save the apology I will take the seventy five dollars first.

777
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: But what I also like about the storyline is that

778
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: when Rat finds out that Mike and Stacy had sex,

779
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: he gets mad at Mike rather than Stacy. He's like yeah,

780
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: and then Rat still likes Stacy and wants to reconnect

781
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: with her. He doesn't act like she's like, you know,

782
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: tainted or anything like that. After having I guess thing,

783
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: it's like, nothing is like, oh, she's ruined, right, because

784
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: a lot of guys especially would have that mentality and

785
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: a lot of or even a moment of like that

786
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: slut and then maybe he comes back around. He never

787
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: has that moment right now, He's like, how could you

788
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: do this to me? You are my friend? I like, yeah,

789
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: I like Rat Rat's book and it's a good boy.

790
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: He's a good boy and likes a classic movie. End

791
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: up with this guy at the end of the movie

792
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: good Boy. But unlike most of the eighties guys, he

793
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: doesn't super suck like because most eighties nerd characters there's

794
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: been like a bit and things written about how like

795
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 1: in like the like Proto in Cell entitled to women,

796
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: he doesn't feel entitled. He's just shy around her because

797
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: he likes her. And then at the end when she

798
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: gives him that picture of her, there I liked And

799
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: I also liked seeing that like a moment where I

800
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: feel like you don't see in teen movies a lot,

801
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 1: where like a moment during sex where the boy gets

802
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and nervous, you don't really and like that's important

803
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: to see too, because that definitely happens in real life

804
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: and you just don't really They're like men are supposed

805
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: to be sexually aggressive and like they never want to

806
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: not have sex. And I feel like that's scene where

807
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: she's trying to have sex with him, it's so obvious

808
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: that that's just what she thinks she's supposed to be doing.

809
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: And she had sex once, so she thinks that they

810
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: see who she is now it's this like vixen, like

811
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: just sexual, and it's so right. It's like clearly that's

812
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: not who she is. He gets uncomfortable, but they're clearly

813
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: both like they both want to date, but they've been

814
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: told that dating or something different. By the way, there's

815
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: another thing. Mike is a fascinating character to me because

816
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: he's almost like a good friend. Like he he brings

817
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: him his wallet at the dinner. He like tries to

818
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: help him out. But even when he does that, it's

819
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: like a failure, like he couldn't do it subtly at all. Right,

820
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: he like totally gives him bad advice. Yeah, I have

821
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: a list of the okay, so he gives He says,

822
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: here's five dating tips that begins to rat and I've

823
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: broken down each one. The first is never let on

824
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: how much you like a girl, which means like be

825
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: emotionally withholding not okay. The second one is you always

826
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: call the shots, which is like be domineering, I guess,

827
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: And then the example he gives is kiss me. You

828
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: won't regret it, so it's like coercions. Um. The third

829
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: one is actually wherever you are, that's the place to be,

830
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: so it's like, okay, emotionally manif beulate the woman. The

831
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: fourth one is find out what she wants an order

832
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: for the both of you. It's a classy move, which

833
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: is what cal hot so it's like, you know, take

834
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: away her agency and autonomy. And then the fifth one

835
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: just kind of stupid when it comes down to making

836
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: out put on side one of led Zeppelin five and

837
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, well, it's like it's very it's the

838
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: same thing that's happening on the other side. What's funny

839
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: is that immediately we see that everybody hates Mike, like

840
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: even in the end when like Rat is confronting and

841
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: he's like, whenever anybody talks shit about you, I try

842
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: to stand up for you. And like when he's like

843
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 1: always he's always like with different popular guy's being like yeah,

844
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: this guy's my buddy, like whatever, and then the guy's

845
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: just like funck off. And it's clear that none of

846
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: these tips work because everybody hates I forget what is

847
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: Mike's like thing that happens to him at that like

848
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: oh if he works at like write an oh he

849
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: got busted for scalping and now okay, cool, cool, He's

850
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: on the straight and arrow now. I mean in New York,

851
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: kuld have presented with these like two parallel like like

852
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: Stacy and Rat are both like the younger like being mentored,

853
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: and then you have the senior mentors. But yeah, like

854
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: Mike is like bullshitting just as much as as Linda is.

855
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: But on top of that has like this like projected

856
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: fake machiese mo. That makes him infinitely worse. Yeah yeah, yeah.

857
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: By the way, this is a total sign note. Did

858
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: you guys look up by any chance with the actor

859
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: who played Rat? Did? Later? No? But I didn't. He well,

860
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 1: he wrote a couple of for dummies books. Oh so

861
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: not not sorry, not the actor, not the actor who

862
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: plays Rat, but the the real life person that Rat

863
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: character was based on. Yeah, it's like a tech gene

864
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: is and wrote a bunch of like computers for dummies.

865
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: Thank you. I know I remember something about that. I

866
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: forget his name, not the actor, who knows what he did?

867
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: You want a Tony? Good for him? He was also

868
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: how to win a Tony for dumb five. He's twenty

869
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: five in the movie. That's what he looked like when

870
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: he's twenty five years old. Twelve years. I remember when

871
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: I got older and I realized that, like all the

872
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: people in teen Things are six years Okay, why don't

873
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: I look like that. I'm still kind of jarred sometimes

874
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: when it's like I have like a fourteen year old

875
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: cousin and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's what a four

876
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: looks like. On Riverdale, they're supposed to be sophomores. In

877
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: Third they're like twenty eight years old. It's like, obviously,

878
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 1: this is what we have to do. We can't actually

879
00:52:52,239 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: have teens. Rat He was based on Andy Rathbone, who

880
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: I don't know who that is, but apparently he's rich

881
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: and famous and is a computer. So um, it's just

882
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: like such a wonderful end for like a high school nerd. Yeah,

883
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: I um, I have just a quick list of so

884
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, this movie comes out. It's like a you know,

885
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties teen sex comedy basically, so you know,

886
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: if you are comparing it to things, it's contemporaries things

887
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: like it is. It has funny parts, but it's more

888
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: of a dram kind of not really a comedy, right,

889
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: fun characters, right, and some good lines, but it's like

890
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: I would say, more like good dramatics life of life.

891
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: It's totally pretty light. But also I mean, yeah, there's

892
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: some heavy stuff in it, like an abortion things like that,

893
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: but it's it's contemporaries or things like you know. Again Porkies, Revenger,

894
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: the Nerds, which are super super problematically see either than wretched,

895
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: So it's it's less problematic than those, but there are

896
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: still some like nine eighties problematic things that happen. I

897
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: just have a quick list of them. Uh. Like, there's

898
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: an opening shot of like the kids in high school,

899
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: and one of the kids puts like a little sign

900
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: on the back of another student that says like I

901
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: am a homo. Uh, you know that doesn't get commented

902
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 1: on or anything like that. There's another moment where Speccoli

903
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: is having his dream sequence about being a surf champ

904
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: and he uses a homophobic slur. There's there's also some

905
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: just kind of like other male gaze shots where uh,

906
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: there's an upcoming football game at the rival school and

907
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: we like some of the girls are wearing shirts that

908
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 1: say like kill Lincoln on it uh to promote school spirit.

909
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: But like these are like very like headless women of Hollywood,

910
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 1: like male gaye shots of their chest and their butts um,

911
00:54:53,760 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: and then forgot about kill Lincoln Eascinatecoln. That's like a

912
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: good I don't think that's high school rivalry energy. Also,

913
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: I do think it's always funny in eighties movies where

914
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: I feel like that was before the cheerleader is a

915
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: popular thing got popular, and so every time in eighties

916
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: movies when there's like cheerleaders, they're fucking nerds because the

917
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: school spirit, like was not cool to have. It was

918
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: cool to not care. So the cheerleaders weren't like the

919
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: popular girl trove which they have there, and those girls

920
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: are just like the spirit squad. It takes a lot

921
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: of vulnerability to get up here and do something that

922
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: you know you're going to be made fun of. So funny.

923
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: Here's another thing that was like what is what is

924
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: this like an eighties thing or what? But Mr Hann

925
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: passes out like his syllabus to the class and then

926
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: everyone lifts up their paper and sniffs it. I don't

927
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: know what that one? What was that? I don't I

928
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: don't know what his name was, Mr ham so I

929
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: can't speak too smells like him. I like, yeah, I

930
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: have no one talking about the school spirit thing though,

931
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about Charles Jefferson, that is the

932
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: Forest Whitaker character. Um he and his brother are the

933
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: only two characters who are people of color who have

934
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: really any significant screen time at all, and even then

935
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: it's quite low. He's barely barely in it. And really

936
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 1: all we know about Charles is that uh AN alumni

937
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: gave him a nice car for playing football, and he's

938
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: very protective of this car. We know that he wants

939
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: to take his brother to the Earth's Wind and Fire concert,

940
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: but aside from that, we don't know anything about his

941
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: personal life. He's not given any sort of characterization. Really,

942
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: everything that we know about him comes from someone else's perspective,

943
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: and then in most scenes you see him in, he's

944
00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: framed as being this like very agro intimidating person. So

945
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: it just to characterize like the only characters of color

946
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: in this way was a very just like regressive eighties approach.

947
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: And again it seems like this is like someone that

948
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: Cameron crow like observed and and then just proceeded to

949
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: not write anything for the character, which is like it's

950
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: kind of like not really much of an excuse to

951
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: not do that when he is not writing it from

952
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: life anymore. He's like basically on experiences and then adding fiction.

953
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, then like let us know more

954
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: than one thing about the character and don't like ground

955
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: it in these like broad stereotypes. Yeah, for Cameron, I mean,

956
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: but I mean we all know and then he makes

957
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: a loha, so he's not really good. Yeah, but it was.

958
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: It was a delight to see a young Forest Whittaker.

959
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: Forest Whitaker is one of those actors. I'm like he

960
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: was born at Like it's so wild to see him.

961
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: I do think one of the best scenes in the

962
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: movie is um when Sean Penn and the brother are driving.

963
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: I do think that's one of them. That's one of

964
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: the most like comedy scenes definitely, because I mean it's good,

965
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: like the way he gets narrowly avoiding like getting in

966
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: a crash, and that it's just like there, I mean,

967
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: Sean Penn is making some choices. Sure, he's so blonde.

968
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: I just kept doing blonde. And I don't know if

969
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: we've we've recovered a movie that Sean Penn is in before,

970
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: we might not have. Well, for for I would feel

971
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: weird not mentioning that he has a horrible track record

972
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: with everything. He's hit a lot of ladies. Yes, he

973
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: is not a good persons bad and like during this

974
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: time specifically too, is like I think around the time

975
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: that he's dating Madonna and there's just old. He was

976
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: in his early twenties, which is weird because when he

977
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: was dating Madonna, he was dating her in the eighties,

978
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: so this might have been slightly before. But it was

979
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: like there is a lot of stuff. But there were

980
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: times where certain people wouldn't report him physically abusing them

981
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: because he was already almost in jail for hitting other people.

982
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: And just like there was this whole culture we have

983
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: to protect Sean Penn when it's like, no, we don't.

984
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: He's also strange watching him play a character. It's like

985
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: very chill. Yeah, it's because he decidedly not chill. Also,

986
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: I read that he he's famously going method for this

987
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: role and he refuses to go out of character at

988
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: any point on set. He makes people call him Spaccoli

989
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: only not worth it. But as far as method characters go,

990
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the one I would prefer to

991
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: be around, and maybe he should have just stayed there.

992
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: Like people just go method for like sociopath and it's like, no,

993
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: you can't do this, then you're just being a sociopath.

994
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: This one. It's like, yeah, it's like chilled out before

995
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: I said it again, women rarely go method because they

996
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: would be fired, right, I know, I'm like most I

997
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: feel like when I think Sean Penn, I think like

998
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: fucking Mystic River, like into like where is my daughter?

999
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: Like that's this is not a classic, Like yeah, of

1000
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: course Sean Penn. That that's very weird. Yeah, anyways, he's

1001
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: a bad man. Yes, indeed, does anyone have any other

1002
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: thoughts aside from him being a bad man? I do

1003
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: kind of like how it wraps up with him and

1004
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: Mr Hand at the end. What a goofy scene, Yeah,

1005
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: because they've been like adversaries the whole time and it's

1006
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: so weird. But it's like comes to his house to

1007
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: house prom night, yeah, and doesn't let him leave for

1008
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: prom because he wants to tutor him, but that he

1009
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: tutors him and then was just like okay, yeah the

1010
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: War Heaven, Okay, I'm going to the dance. So it's

1011
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: so weird, but I feel like everyone gets kind of

1012
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: a nice little wrap up. Yeah. I like that. I mean,

1013
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: like we we know Linda goes to college. There's kind

1014
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: of like a slight joke at her expense made about

1015
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: like she and and she started like hooking up with

1016
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: her professor um, which again that like sort of like

1017
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: contradicted what I had in my head of like she

1018
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: was not telling the truth about having sex, and I'm like, oh,

1019
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: maybe she did. Don't think she's as I think she

1020
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: has had sex. It has consistently been with like you know,

1021
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: this thing where it's like guys who just don't really

1022
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: care about her. Yeah, like this guy probably settling offhand

1023
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: and she's like, he's my fiance and Chicago, and he's not.

1024
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: He has no intention, you know, and so that I

1025
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: feel like the professor would follow in that sure. Yeah,

1026
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: Like I don't think anything she was doing this like

1027
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: a full fabrication. It was just like based in something

1028
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: much smaller, you know, all out of proportion. It was

1029
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: just like all any character in this movie does, which

1030
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: was all experienced. Yeah, I do like that. Um, the

1031
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: judge runhold care your Brad is like gearing up to

1032
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: break up with his girlfriend and he's like, it's because

1033
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 1: I want my freedom and did, and then she breaks

1034
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: up with him first and uses the exact same reason

1035
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: for she's like, I'm a you know, and I like that.

1036
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: It's like as soon as he gets fired, he doesn't

1037
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: want to break up with her anymore because now he's

1038
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: like something, and he's like, I'm so glad I have you,

1039
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: And she's like, actually, I don't know what ended up

1040
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: happening with her. I know, yeah, I don't find out

1041
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: what happened to Lisa. But and she like literally yeah,

1042
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: she just like tells him she doesn't want to have

1043
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: sex with him when he's declaring himself king of the

1044
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: world for having a purger flipping job, like it's all

1045
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: very satisfying. What habit to Lisa? Camera? Just Lisa. I

1046
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: think that's all I really had. Yeah, this movie, I

1047
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I was like pleasantly surprised by it. It's

1048
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,959
Speaker 1: better than most eighties teen comedies we've covered on the show,

1049
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: which is saying something true. I mean back to the

1050
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: Future I still stay on for and yet we did

1051
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: give it zero nipples the bonus episode we did of it. Yeah,

1052
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: I think it's just a very like of the time,

1053
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: but also in some respects pretty progressive for the time,

1054
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: especially like the way it handles abortion, I mean the

1055
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: fact that it even features an abortion at all, I

1056
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: mean in a non deferential way, like even still we

1057
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: can come on one hand, the number of like mainstream

1058
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: movies that even mention abortion let alone like have it,

1059
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: and she's in a way better than obvious child. I

1060
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: do think it's true because she ends up dating the

1061
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: guy that she got an abortion from. Anyways, Well, yeah,

1062
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: so I think that, Yeah, the fact that we even

1063
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: get that at all is is very progressive for its time.

1064
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: But then there's just the whole like there being a

1065
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: statutory rape and it not being framed that way by

1066
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: the movie, and like the teen nudity that I don't

1067
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: think is necessary at all. Uh. Yes, so it's kind

1068
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: of it's a little bit all over the place, but um,

1069
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised that it's you know, not as

1070
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: bad as some of its contemporaries in terms of like

1071
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: toxic eighties mentality. Yeah, so it doesn't pass the Bechdel tests.

1072
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: We don't think there's like think, I think maybe some

1073
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: two line exchanges. It almost like there's one where they're

1074
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: in the cafeteria and they're like, there's four girls who

1075
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: are just exactly like pat Banatar this year, but which

1076
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: almost is. But then it turns into her being like

1077
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 1: do you think that guys think they're hard? Right away?

1078
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: But that is almost looks just like Pata turned like yeah,

1079
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: there's four I have tried to pay attention to, like, um,

1080
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: if the guy has had any because I was like,

1081
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: I feel like I noticed this too. They don't have

1082
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: very many conversations that aren't about girls. Yeah, but they do.

1083
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: There are a couple, like I feel like because I

1084
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, the reason why this movie I think

1085
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: doesn't pass the Bechdel test is because it about sex.

1086
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: It's like, so it's just that's what it ends up being.

1087
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: So I was like, I wonder if if the boys

1088
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: talk about anything else, and they like kind of do

1089
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: I think it in the brother of Forts Whittaker's character,

1090
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: like talk about the car history, you know, boy stuff. Yeah. Well,

1091
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: even like the like the title cards at the end

1092
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: that like like here's what everyone's up to. The girls

1093
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: information that we're given is mostly about their relationships with

1094
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: boys versus the boys. That we get information about the

1095
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:40,959
Speaker 1: boys or the men. It's like all about their job,

1096
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: which is that same thing from The Royal Ten and Bombs. Yeah,

1097
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: I thought that they only introduced the Marco is the

1098
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: only one going to college. That's true, they do, and

1099
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: he's the only one who made it to college. She

1100
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: gets a sentence. Um, but yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't.

1101
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: It does not pass the bile test. We're pretty sure, right,

1102
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: I might might pass a little bit, but yeah, I don't.

1103
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean just because yeah, it's

1104
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: like almost and then those exchanges kind of turning. Yeah,

1105
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: the context of almost every conversation is about like boys,

1106
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: one of my there's even you know, like one line

1107
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: like Stacy being like I cannot do another summer. Oh yeah,

1108
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: Stacy says she said something like, um, oh I can't

1109
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: keep working here or else I'm going to get so

1110
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: fat that no one will want to take me out.

1111
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: And it's like I was even thinking near the end,

1112
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: it's just like I can spend another summer at Perry's. Yeah,

1113
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 1: but I think there's maybe a few small, like two

1114
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 1: line exchanges by our very low bar would pass. But

1115
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: the context of almost every scene, conversation, storyline is like

1116
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: hetero romance and sex checking in with what's going on. Yeah,

1117
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: so there you have it. Uh, let's write the movie

1118
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: on our nipple scale zero to five aipples based on

1119
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: its representation of women. This one, O. God, it's a

1120
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: really such a mixed bag for me because like, on

1121
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: one hand, like I really like how the abortion thing

1122
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 1: is handled. But I would give this like a two,

1123
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: I think because it's still you know, harboring a lot

1124
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: of like nineteen eighties stuff. I mean that's the thing.

1125
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: It's like when you talk about a movie that's about

1126
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 1: like romance and sex, Yes, a lot of it's going

1127
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: to be about like what the female characters. What we

1128
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: know about them is what boys they like, how much

1129
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: they like them. It's you know, it's very geared towards

1130
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: like their interest in boys, just by the nature of

1131
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: that kind of storytelling. But I don't know, they still

1132
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: could have been characterized a bit more. We could still

1133
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: like know what their favorite subjects in school, maybe, what

1134
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: they want to do when they graduate, what are their fantasies.

1135
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: Get to see boys fantasies? Yes, and then just the

1136
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: encouragement of like, yes, uh, you're fifteen year olds old,

1137
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: but you should have sex with this twenty six year

1138
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: old guy. Hate it? Um, So yeah, I'll stick with

1139
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: a two. I'll give one nipple to Stacy and one

1140
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: to Stacy's mom. She's got it going on. We do see,

1141
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: she taught reference. She tucked her into bed right before

1142
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: her You do see you hear your parents, and you

1143
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: see their hands, you see your faces, your face. Wow,

1144
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: She's like, good night mom, and then she sneaks out

1145
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,839
Speaker 1: the window. High. Um. I guess I'm gonna go. I'm

1146
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: gonna probably be too hard of it, like for listener context.

1147
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: Because I just gave Little Women a three and a half,

1148
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: I feel like I cannot give this ste too. Yeah,

1149
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to give it a I think I'm gonna

1150
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: give a one and a half. It does a lot

1151
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 1: of things that I wasn't expecting it to do at all,

1152
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 1: do really well, Like I can't think of a I

1153
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 1: think a more like straightforward, effective, non judgmental abortion plotline

1154
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: in another teen movie off the top of my head

1155
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: at all, Like I thought that was like great, um,

1156
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: and then yeah, just kind of kind of echoing what

1157
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: you said of stuff that and just like basic writing

1158
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: stuff of just like there were very easy non and

1159
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: like stuff that wouldn't even change the story ways of

1160
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 1: just like flashing out the female characters a little bit

1161
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: more that either Cameron Crowe was not able to do

1162
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: or like what whatever I mean, It doesn't seem like

1163
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: he has a very coherent understanding of women based on

1164
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: his work um so in this in this instance, he

1165
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 1: simply did not try. Um. The same thing was like

1166
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: people of color, just like no attempt to characterize them

1167
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 1: at all, which is include them hardly at all, which

1168
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: is like the Sophia couple of school of writing non

1169
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: white characters, which is just I don't know. So I

1170
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 1: want you're just like that's can't that can't be it.

1171
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,639
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think

1172
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: like Amy Heckerling, this being like her directorial debut is

1173
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: like awesome, and I like all the performance like all

1174
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: the all the performances are great. I like that you

1175
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: sort of see humiliating side to male sexuality in like teens.

1176
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: I like I like the way that rats like masculinity

1177
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: is written and shown. Uh. And I just it's nice

1178
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: to see like teenagers that sort of sound like teenagers

1179
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: and are making the mistakes the teenagers would make in

1180
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: a lot of kids. The more I think about, the

1181
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: more that like American Pie rips off so much from

1182
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: this movie that Jason Diggs character is basically rat but horrible.

1183
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, that movie I think is far worse. It's

1184
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: far more toxic. Yeah. Anyway, um, yeah, I'll do when

1185
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 1: I have I like genuinely enjoyed most of this movie. Yeah,

1186
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna give give my nippies to Phoebe

1187
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: Kate's because she is one of my favorite musicians. Mom Oh,

1188
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: Frankie cosmos Um is the child of Kevin Klein and

1189
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,719
Speaker 1: Phoebe Kids. I didn't know that she and Kevin Klein

1190
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: they've been married for her, Like you learn some story, great,

1191
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: how about y'all? Um? Okay, I mean, I guess I'm

1192
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: gonna go a little high. I want to give it three.

1193
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 1: I'm taking context into account a little bit, thinking like

1194
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: between this movie because it's eighty one and like Book

1195
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: Smart forty years that is forty years different, and that

1196
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: this one it has like the protagonist in this teen

1197
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: sex comedy is a girl who was like figuring out

1198
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 1: sex and stuff, and it I feel like it treats

1199
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: her as like valid and like as opposed to just

1200
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: I feel like it kind of does like subvert a

1201
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: lot of those eighties tropes where is the protagonist would

1202
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: in another movie would have been rat or would have

1203
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 1: been Brad or like something like that. And I kind

1204
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: of think, like at the time, like if you were

1205
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: a teenager in eighty one. This movie would have been

1206
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 1: like seeing this movie compared to most of those movies

1207
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 1: at the time, if you were like a teenage girl,

1208
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: I think that would have been huge. And he like

1209
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 1: dignified representation. And I think like a lot of the

1210
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of the negative stuff in it.

1211
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't deal with it enough, but it's not untrue,

1212
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: like just because it sucks and it is it like

1213
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 1: is an unpleasant fact of like life, doesn't mean it

1214
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: doesn't actually happen. It happens all the time. So I

1215
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 1: kind of like that it like presents that and in

1216
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: a way that isn't like earth shattering, you know. And

1217
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: then I'll give one to um Rat because he's a

1218
01:12:56,320 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: nice boy. Um. I'll give one to the Cardigan in

1219
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: this movie. Um, they're really good Cardians. And UM one

1220
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:11,759
Speaker 1: to Phoebe Kate's hair, um, because it's doing great work. Really,

1221
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: how many aerosol cans went into um? Okay? You know,

1222
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: it's interesting when we talked about like, okay, representation of

1223
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 1: women versus teen girls, you know what I mean. And

1224
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: so it's like, obviously teen girls are complex human beings,

1225
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: but they're it's different, you know what I mean, so

1226
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of the moments where I feel

1227
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: like we're maybe missing some greater like emotional arc or something.

1228
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 1: I think it's maybe not a great excuse just being like, oh, well,

1229
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 1: they're just teen, so they didn't really think about it. Um.

1230
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 1: I think we've seen a lot of things about teens

1231
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 1: where we get much deeper than that. Um. But I

1232
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: think too seems fair. I also enjoyed watching this movie.

1233
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: I think it has a lot of very fun characters,

1234
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: and that's always my favorite thing in like eighties like

1235
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: teen like any kind of like high school movie is

1236
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: really good characters. Like I mean, obviously we have our

1237
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: issues with Spaccoli, but he's a very fun character. The

1238
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 1: issue not but totally as an entity is fine, but

1239
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 1: unfortunately is casting. Okay, I will give a nipple too.

1240
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: I feel like nobody has given one to Brad. What

1241
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: a little nice guy, sweet to his younger sister. I

1242
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of the time you see siblings

1243
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: in high school together and the older one is like,

1244
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: don't talk to me, and I'm a hard worker. It's

1245
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 1: like he said at the beginning, a successful guy. I

1246
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: also like that, Well, I guess he was going to

1247
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,839
Speaker 1: break up with his girlfriend and give her her freedom

1248
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 1: to explore. But then I guess he actually wasn't going to,

1249
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: so never mind on that um and then I would

1250
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: give the other one to Linda because I just like

1251
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: that character. I like Linda a lot, just such another

1252
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 1: fantastic like that is such a true like high school girl,

1253
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 1: the girl who feels like she has to act more

1254
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: mature than she is and then spray paints. Yeah, I

1255
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: really like how immediate. At least she's just like, he's

1256
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 1: not a human, he's a little pray yeah. Oh god.

1257
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: When he just covers it with what are people going

1258
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: to think? Well, thank you, thank you so much. Where

1259
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: can people follow you individually and then as a podcast

1260
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 1: tell us everything? Okay? Um? I am at m l

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Speaker 1: E like the letters um fae f A y E

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Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. I am at Page Weldon on

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01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter. And you can follow our podcasts too.

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Speaker 1: It's called mall Talk. It's on the Forever Dog Network.

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01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: It's about them all if you can imagine, um about

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Speaker 1: it every week, so you know, if that seems fun,

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Speaker 1: at mall talk pose Yeah, mall talk on iTunes and everywhere,

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Speaker 1: you know, what to do? You found this podcast, so

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Speaker 1: you know how to find a podcast? Yeah, yeah, you're cool.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't, you can find us at not

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Speaker 1: thank you so much, on Twitter, Instagram. I hardly ever

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Speaker 1: use Facebook, so don't message us there. But we're at bectelcast.

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Speaker 1: You can join our patreon ak Matreon. It's five dollars

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Speaker 1: a month to bonus episodes, plus our entire back catalogs

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Speaker 1: and so many. Yeah, and it's at patreon dot com,

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Speaker 1: slash backtel cast. You can get our you can get

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Speaker 1: our merge at the public dot com slash the beechtel

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Speaker 1: cast um. And yeah, thank you for listening. Is there

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Speaker 1: like a line from this movie that people quote