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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast, coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening hunt podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear.

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Speaker 1: For every hunt, First Light, go farther, stay longer here.

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Speaker 1: Everybody joined today in the Turkey Woods, very near the

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Speaker 1: Turkey Woods with with Fosburg, President CEO of the Theatore

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. We're actually here on part of our

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Speaker 1: fundraising mission. We are where we have the Turkey Hunt Giveaway.

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Speaker 1: We just hunted with the Turkey Hunt Giveaway people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you guys are very generous and you know, basically

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Speaker 1: allowing us to sweep stakes you off and two lucky

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Speaker 1: winners came out here and hunted with you, Steve and

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Speaker 1: Yanni and uh, not fully successful, but I think everyone

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Speaker 1: had a great time. And yeah, spectacular woods around here,

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Speaker 1: Matt Cook's farm, great place. We're still running success rate.

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Speaker 1: And just to give you an idea that you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of what it did for us, I mean

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Speaker 1: we had we raised on this one eighty plus thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars last year. It was over a hundred and twenty.

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Speaker 1: So we're making real money for conservation, and uh we

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Speaker 1: gotta we gotta find some way to sup it up

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Speaker 1: and get the numbers back up. Well, I think remember

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Speaker 1: we did it last year. It was October and then

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Speaker 1: now it's May, so we had a much more truncated season,

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Speaker 1: and people who had just entered, we're asking to enter again.

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Speaker 1: So I think as we moved back out to an

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Speaker 1: annual May cycle, the excess when our dinner is we

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Speaker 1: had to move it because of COVID, I think you're

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Speaker 1: gonna see those numbers get back up. Plus, you know,

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Speaker 1: to extent that the guys like we're here at this

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Speaker 1: time who had a great time, you know, they get

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Speaker 1: the word out and it's pretty cool. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: had three thousand plus people enter last time and these

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Speaker 1: you know, these two one and uh you know, super

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Speaker 1: good guys Western New York from Buffalo. We've talked. Me

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Speaker 1: and Ni were talking about switching it to uh um

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Speaker 1: doing a raffle for an elk hunt. Wondering if that

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Speaker 1: would make a huge difference or if it would make

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Speaker 1: any difference. Yeah, I mean I don't know. I think,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean we could certainly try it and

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Speaker 1: see it. Elkhart elk hunt, as you guys know, as

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Speaker 1: much harder to put on in general. Um, but you know,

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Speaker 1: and this one, you know, is pretty darn easy and

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Speaker 1: it's a high success rate and very fun. And it's

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Speaker 1: you know, honestly sitting in a ground blind with you

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Speaker 1: or Yanni, or sneaking through the woods. I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: gonna learn more on this about hunting and about you

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Speaker 1: guys than they would probably in a lot of the

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Speaker 1: elk hunting situations. They learned that, like take me a

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Speaker 1: little midday naw yep. Uh, tell everybody how you got

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Speaker 1: run over by a car. It's a good story. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So I've been bike commuting for twenty years to my

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Speaker 1: office down to our home, and I lived just outside

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Speaker 1: the d C line in Maryland, and I've never really

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Speaker 1: had a close call. But d C has been doing

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Speaker 1: a really good job of revamping the spike lanes and

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Speaker 1: it's become a very good bike city. But you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the passenger cars are not quite used

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Speaker 1: to it yet. And so they moved a bike lane

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Speaker 1: over near the watergate on Virginia Avenue so that the

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Speaker 1: water gate, so that both lanes are on the south

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Speaker 1: side of the road, and so I'm literally I'm heading

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Speaker 1: home and it's dark and it's it's about eight miles

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Speaker 1: nine miles, but so it was dark and rainy and

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Speaker 1: I'm heading into traffic and uh, a woman was running

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Speaker 1: late for a performance at the Kennedy Center and just

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Speaker 1: turned straight into me, and my bike goes under the car.

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Speaker 1: I go over the car and uh, you have three

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Speaker 1: broken ribs, broken clavical, broken finger, separated shoulder. But hey

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Speaker 1: have fly fish last weekend, so everything's good. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: how long ago did this happen? Uh? February, same day

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Speaker 1: as a Ukraine invasion. Wow, I would have never known

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Speaker 1: that you're beat up just a couple of months ago. Well,

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Speaker 1: part of the reason I haven't turkey on it this

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Speaker 1: year because I didn't feel like putting a twelve gage.

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Speaker 1: I guess my broken clavical and pulling a trigger was

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Speaker 1: a good idea to shoot left hand with the red dot. Well,

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Speaker 1: I could try that. I am very right handed. I

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Speaker 1: thought of you there today because you know, in the

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake City Airport they have this by the f Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Salta City Airport, by the entrance to the f

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Speaker 1: and G gates. They have this very large panoramic screen

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Speaker 1: and it's all advertising like Utah so slise, like gorgeous

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Speaker 1: scenics and people skiing and mountain climbing, and then they

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Speaker 1: got a five fisherman, the worst cast I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Everything's perfect with that. They didn't cast. They didn't They

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Speaker 1: just did a horrible job casting the cast. And they

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Speaker 1: should have had you come in there and paste one

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Speaker 1: out for their little video. The honest cast on the planet.

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Speaker 1: That's when a rambic screen. That's one of the things

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Speaker 1: that made River Run Through It successful is they didn't

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Speaker 1: have I mean, I guess Brad Pitt learned how to

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Speaker 1: fly fish. But for the really beautiful fly fishing scenes,

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Speaker 1: they brought into this guy from Wisconsin. Yeah, what was

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Speaker 1: his name, border, I'm forgetting his first name. His dad

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Speaker 1: was a legend too, but who was just a world class,

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Speaker 1: you know, fly caster, and so all the sort of

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Speaker 1: scenic fly casting shots you see are with one of

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Speaker 1: the best fly casters in the world, and which makes

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Speaker 1: a big difference. Yea, No, they should definitely head you.

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Speaker 1: Uh kay. Couple things here. Here's the funny one. Someone

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Speaker 1: sent us to tax exchange and it was someone saying, uh, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's they were named Katie. I thought it was from

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Speaker 1: your wife. No different Katie. But you know what a

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Speaker 1: lot like when I was a little kid, everybody named

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Speaker 1: everybody Steve and Jenny, and then five years later they

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Speaker 1: named him all Katie. How many like? I got more

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Speaker 1: Katies in my lefe to know what to do with this.

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Speaker 1: Here's another Katie. She's talking about how uh her husband

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Speaker 1: was reading my new book Outdoor Kids in an Inside

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Speaker 1: World while she wasn't labor. He was getting out ahead

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Speaker 1: of it, playing ahead. When my wife was in labor

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Speaker 1: my first kid, I passed out and had to have

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Speaker 1: a nurse come re suscitate me. They got out that

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Speaker 1: big gass. Uh. Do you ever see an epidural needle? Listen? Man,

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Speaker 1: Seeing that made you pass out? Yeah, Because here's the

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Speaker 1: deal too, Like my wife did all the like all

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Speaker 1: the garbage to have be like the all natural, you know,

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Speaker 1: all these classes and all this practicing and ship and

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Speaker 1: they get there and they like do the they put

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Speaker 1: the little heart monitor on the baby and they're like

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Speaker 1: that ain't happening. Pulled out, so she's all upset. But

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Speaker 1: then they pulled off this big. Yeah, the biggest needle

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Looked like something you'd based a turkey

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Speaker 1: with like an injector. And I just passed right out

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Speaker 1: and woke up out in the hallway with my head

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Speaker 1: in the nurse's lap. Yeah. Wow, I could cut your

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Speaker 1: arm off and eat it your honest he wentn't pass out,

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Speaker 1: but that needle going into my wife's spine maybe pass out? Wow?

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Speaker 1: Has that ever happened to you before you went? I

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Speaker 1: like to think I was overtired. I got really close.

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Speaker 1: I mean because but we were in like our forty

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Speaker 1: or something of labor and had not maybe had some

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Speaker 1: cat naps, but not really and it's getting very intense.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also like just feeling my body shutting our Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we went all natural the whole way and it

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Speaker 1: went long mega longez. Yeah. But that includes like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the beginnings, like where do you where do where does

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Speaker 1: the timer start? You know what I mean of labor.

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Speaker 1: So but yeah, I remember just being on my knees

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Speaker 1: kind of next to the bed with my arms on

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Speaker 1: the bed and just like looking at the midwife being like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I just I'm thinking I'm just gonna lay down. I

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Speaker 1: have to lay down just for a little bit, just

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Speaker 1: for a little bit. And I was like literally tapping out,

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Speaker 1: but then uh da came out, and then we both

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Speaker 1: might took it out. I think you should count it

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Speaker 1: from when the water breaks m but I'm not. You know,

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Speaker 1: what do you call him maternity nurse or something like that?

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Speaker 1: Guy wrote in this is interesting. This is the thing

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Speaker 1: to add to our list of things that make a

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Speaker 1: turkey gobble, which we were heavy duty into for a

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Speaker 1: long time but kind of got away from it. A

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Speaker 1: Chinook helicopter flying hundred feet off the ground as the

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Speaker 1: propellers split the air. You know that sound, says, got

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Speaker 1: every turkey in the woods goblin. That's good. But you

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Speaker 1: know they can adjust the pitch on those and make

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Speaker 1: it louder and quieter more if you can set them

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Speaker 1: to like ultrashot gobble setting. Well, no, I was. I

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Speaker 1: happened to when we went to hunt a region in Montana.

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Speaker 1: I was talking a wild life biologist. He says, well,

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Speaker 1: I won't be able to hook up with you because

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Speaker 1: every morning even I'll be flying doing deer counts. I said, well,

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Speaker 1: if you're flying over where, I'm gonna be do a

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Speaker 1: couple of low passes and make that chopper really sound

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Speaker 1: up and give me a couple of free shot gobbles. Um,

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Speaker 1: I saw the schopper, but not didn't get here off

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Speaker 1: the even following this the corner crossing whileman corner crossing case, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, not professionally as much as just as a citizen.

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Speaker 1: As a citizens, I'm guessing have we updated this yet?

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Speaker 1: So we've been working on I don't want to. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get out ahead of myself. A lot

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Speaker 1: more to come out on this subject, but just an update.

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Speaker 1: The four This is a while ago now, the four

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Speaker 1: Missouri hunters who were being tried for trespassing over having

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Speaker 1: corner crossed in Wyoming. We're all found not guilty. However,

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Speaker 1: three of the four hunters acquitted, So they were found

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Speaker 1: not guilty and criminal trespassing. Okay, but they had done

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Speaker 1: the same thing at the same ranch. Oh, so they

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Speaker 1: had done the same thing near there. So rather than yeah,

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Speaker 1: we did talk about this, I remember making the parallel.

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Speaker 1: Remember how the juice wasn't in trouble for killing his

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Speaker 1: wife in the waiter criminally, but then got in trouble

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Speaker 1: for killing his wife and the waiter Ronah Perlman. Is

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Speaker 1: that his name? Is his name? Gold Just look up

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Speaker 1: real quickly, you kill ron Pearlman. You don't follow this

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Speaker 1: with no I can tell you where else sitting when

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Speaker 1: he was driving down the road trying to get away

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Speaker 1: from the car. You're bad. You're talking o J. Now

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Speaker 1: do you think I saw? Yeah? I was sitting in

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Speaker 1: bone Nicky's Bar in Moskin County, Michigan, watching o J

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Speaker 1: drive around on that Bronco. That truck could be worth

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Speaker 1: a lot of money right now? Uh, Goldman, I think

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Speaker 1: it was his name wasn't. Come on? Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: easiest web search in the world. It's not. Are you

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Speaker 1: kidding me? When you type in o J Nicole Brown Simpson, Ron,

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Speaker 1: I hope Phil plays like a ticking clock. I would

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Speaker 1: have solved this ten times Ronald Lyle Goldman. The uh

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Speaker 1: why was I talking about o J? Meaning? O J

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Speaker 1: was not in trouble criminally, but he was in trouble civilly.

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Speaker 1: So the several of these guys are now facing a

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Speaker 1: civil suit from a landowner from actions taken in I

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Speaker 1: got a feeling that won't go anywhere. Uh. We often

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Speaker 1: RecA report on really how wildlife issues are so egregiously

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Speaker 1: misreported in the news, and Krin, who's not here right now.

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Speaker 1: I felt that for us to be fair and and

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Speaker 1: morally consistent, we would have to point out uh our

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Speaker 1: own egregious abuse of language and reporting wildlife news. If

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Speaker 1: you go to the meeting, we changed it. But if

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Speaker 1: you go to the meater dot com, we had coverage

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Speaker 1: of a fox that snuck into a zoo and killed

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Speaker 1: How many did he kill? A lot? Like a fox

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Speaker 1: snuck into the Smithsonian National Zoo and killed twenty five flamingos.

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Speaker 1: There's a term for that. It's called what's it called

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Speaker 1: when they do like overkill thing? Oh right, when they

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Speaker 1: just sort of plus surplus killing genocide. No, like when

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Speaker 1: a mountain No. No, like when a mountain lion gets

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Speaker 1: into it like a penful allamas right, you just can't

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Speaker 1: help him. Yeah, they get excited. Yeah, like it kills

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Speaker 1: way more and he can eat surplus surplus killing. The

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Speaker 1: fox got in there and somehow managed to kill twenty

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Speaker 1: five flamingos. Our headline, which we changed, I had we

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Speaker 1: had an uproar. I had an uproar was wild animal

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Speaker 1: massacres flamingo flock at Famous American Zoo, which now we'll

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Speaker 1: read if you go look wild Animal kills Flamingo flock

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Speaker 1: at Famous American Zoo. Applying the same level of maturity

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Speaker 1: to our own reporting as we do the reporting of others.

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Speaker 1: She has a crime scene in red Down there too?

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Speaker 1: Did she not like the use of crime scene for

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Speaker 1: that that? I was informed by Spencer that was meant

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Speaker 1: to be tongue in cheek. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I could read the text exchange I had with Spencer,

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Speaker 1: like Spencer always does, Spencer um is disinclined to admit wrongdoing.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, he's not gonna give

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Speaker 1: me my uh my, my answer from that last trivia around.

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Speaker 1: Oh here's another uh here, here's another example of saving lives.

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Speaker 1: A woman wrote in from British Columbia. Oh, hike in

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Speaker 1: uh with her twelve year old. They got a moose

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Speaker 1: kind of trying to attack them. And the twelve year

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Speaker 1: old had read our Wilderness Skills book and I knew

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Speaker 1: what to do from having read the book and it worked.

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Speaker 1: Scared of the moose off. Did we have a part

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Speaker 1: in there about how to scare a moose off? We did.

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Speaker 1: That's more common than probably a bear charge. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is the one that has enormous implications for me

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Speaker 1: and everyone that likes to hunt morrel's. It's it appears

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Speaker 1: after like over the years, many people have liked to

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Speaker 1: come forward and claim to have dialed in morele production,

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Speaker 1: and it often winds up being not true or exaggerated.

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Speaker 1: It seems like some Danish biologists, judging by the photos,

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Speaker 1: some Danish biologists have now tamed the last true piece

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Speaker 1: of wildlife in America. The one thing that man couldn't

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Speaker 1: conquer has been conquered. The morrel in a in a.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at they gotta ship. What about the huckleberry?

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Speaker 1: Huckleberrys is souped up? Huckleberry is a diminutive blueberry, right,

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Speaker 1: but I thought they couldn't grow them. Listen, if you

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Speaker 1: talk you ever talked to your wife's a botanist. Does

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Speaker 1: your wife really buy into like huckleberries being like it's

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Speaker 1: it's a little blueberry. That's true the same way like

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Speaker 1: if you take a wild small and more flavorfuls, right,

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Speaker 1: but strawberries have absolutely been domesticated, that's true. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: if a huckleberry just a blueberry. Then yeah, we're in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a lot of blueberries right now. And

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Speaker 1: the one thing that's that was the main reason that

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Speaker 1: not my view like Morrel's taste good, but the main

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Speaker 1: thing I liked about him was that they were they

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Speaker 1: couldn't be conquered. They were unconquerable. And the Danes, who

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Speaker 1: make a hell of a good movie, have figured out

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Speaker 1: cultivating Morrell mushrooms indoors year round. The Danish Morrel Project,

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Speaker 1: forty years of research collaboration with the Royal Veterinarian Agricultural

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Speaker 1: University in the University of Copenhagen. The growing method of

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Speaker 1: their black morals in the climate control environment over a

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Speaker 1: twenty two weeks cycle produces twenty pounds of mushroom per

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Speaker 1: square yard per year. So depressing because like when you

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Speaker 1: see a Morell, you're like someone went out and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't picked that son of a bit, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? Found it. Now it'll be like white tails.

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Speaker 1: Morrells have got the same problem that white tails have.

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Speaker 1: Like when you go into a house and see a

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Speaker 1: giant white tail, I'm as like, who knows, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, who knows? Who really knows? Is

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Speaker 1: it a white tailor is it not? Like? Is it

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Speaker 1: a fake white tail? No? Depressing. The reason it was

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Speaker 1: tough to cultivate wild morales is because of an extra step.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, I'm reading here in their life cycle

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Speaker 1: called the sclerodium. The word I had never heard sounds

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Speaker 1: vaguely sexual. Sclerodium to germinate and spring. The sclerodium can

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Speaker 1: either form new my celium, the root light network of

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Speaker 1: underground filaments, or they can form a fruiting body, which

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Speaker 1: is the above ground mushroom. The people, remember, we had

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Speaker 1: a big fight about this word before. I was calling

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Speaker 1: it a mackerel fructation, but it is a mackerel fructification.

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Speaker 1: Is the the fruit like if you imagine the part

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Speaker 1: that makes him moral is like a whole there's a

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Speaker 1: whole apple tree underground, but now and then it sticks

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Speaker 1: an apple up above the dirt. The my celium is

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Speaker 1: the apple tree living underground. Um. Instead of it producing

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Speaker 1: fruit a k and apple, it produces a mackerel fructification,

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Speaker 1: which is the part you cut off with your knife,

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Speaker 1: and three's supposed to come off with a knife and

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Speaker 1: not yank them out of the ground, and so you

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Speaker 1: don't damage the my celium, which I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's I've never heard if that's actually true or not.

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Speaker 1: So the death of one more cool thing. What do

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Speaker 1: you think about that? With? Uh? You know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a mushroom hunter, so I would love to be, but

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Speaker 1: I don't. I want never anybody to teach me. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that you just don't go blind

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Speaker 1: into it. I can teach you right now, well we're sitting, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you cut it. Yeah, yeah, no, but that's

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Speaker 1: that's maybe your morale, but there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: other ones out there, so you don't know about Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My my recommendation to budding my uh mycologists Michael Mica

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Speaker 1: opheliax is um Michael Phelia, Right, that means you love mushrooms,

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Speaker 1: um is. Let's stick to the There's like the fool

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Speaker 1: proof for the fail safe four, the fail safe five,

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Speaker 1: fool proof five, depending on who you ask. It's like

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Speaker 1: different ones, but there's certain just dead nuts. Right. Puff

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Speaker 1: Balls don't taste good. Really, people act like they do,

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Speaker 1: but they don't are always edible like all the puff balls.

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Speaker 1: The white puff balls are all edible. Morrel's Shantrells are

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Speaker 1: hard to mess up. Oysters are very hard to mess up.

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Speaker 1: Just stick with those you don't need to beating like

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Speaker 1: the crazy ones. I can't remember when maybe Criminal put

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Speaker 1: in the show notes we had an episode of podcast

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Speaker 1: episode called I believe it was called farewell red Wolf,

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Speaker 1: I think, and we had a red wolf expert um

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Speaker 1: talking about red wolves, red wolf or cravery. For the

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Speaker 1: first time in four years, a litter of red wolf

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Speaker 1: pups was born in the wild. Six pops in total,

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Speaker 1: four females and two males, found last month in the

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Speaker 1: Alligated River National Wildlife Refuge in northeastern North Carolina. To

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Speaker 1: give you a sense of the decline, forty seven red

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Speaker 1: wolves are born in the wild in two thousand eight,

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Speaker 1: down to only four pups ten years later. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, US Fish and Wild the IF reported not

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Speaker 1: a single red wolf birth in the past three years

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Speaker 1: one until now. There are an estimated fifteen to seventeen

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Speaker 1: red wolves in the wild today, with another two one

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Speaker 1: in captivity. Do you think people get fired up about

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Speaker 1: wolves in in the Rocky Mountains? They get real fired

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Speaker 1: up down there about wolves like that it's illegit that

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Speaker 1: it's not an actual species. That it's like it's like

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Speaker 1: a hidio hybrid. The FEDS are sticking it down their throat,

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Speaker 1: that it's conservation dependent. It's all a bunch of bullpockey. No, no,

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Speaker 1: no no. If you're interesting that whole debate, check out

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Speaker 1: the episode of Farewell Red Wolf and you will learn

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Speaker 1: more than you can remember about it. Are you ready

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Speaker 1: to get into this recovered? Y uh? What's going on

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C? Like what's the I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know what's going on in Washington, d C. But what's

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Speaker 1: going on like in the bowels of Washington, d C?

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Speaker 1: When you get outside of Supreme Court leaks and the

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Speaker 1: war in Ukraine and inflamed partisanship in the January six committee.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start over on the administrative side because

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Speaker 1: the big thing right now is implementation of the bipartisan

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Speaker 1: Infantry US for law that passed in the fall, which

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Speaker 1: is one point to trillion dollars for roads and bridges,

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Speaker 1: traditional infrastructure, but also billions for natural infrastructure. And you

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Speaker 1: know that can range from migration crossings over highways to

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Speaker 1: you know, investing in seed sources for restoration to everglades restoration.

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Speaker 1: How do how do they wedge that, like, I'm glad,

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Speaker 1: I'm supportive. How do they wedge that in there? Because

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Speaker 1: we're always annoyed when stuff gets wedged in that we

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Speaker 1: don't want, But there was stuff gets wedged in that

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Speaker 1: you do want. You're glad about it, but you don't complain.

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Speaker 1: So I mean a lot of this stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's use Everglades as an example. Yeah, I mean we

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Speaker 1: help as infrastructure. So what we did back in its

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Speaker 1: wisdom and the midnineteen is the core of engineers channelized

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Speaker 1: central Florida to have the wa to go east and

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Speaker 1: west as opposed to flow south through the Evergladies to

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Speaker 1: Florida Bay. That had done naturally, and that's where you

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Speaker 1: have things like the River of Grass and those iconic

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Speaker 1: images of yesteryear. So the impacts of that. Can we

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Speaker 1: dive into that story for a second. I just want

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Speaker 1: people to make sure we we had a podcast about

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Speaker 1: this long long time ago, But um, I don't think

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Speaker 1: people could People that haven't spent time and they can

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Speaker 1: fully grasp what that was like. Yeah, so you have

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Speaker 1: an incredibly flat terrain that runs essentially across from mid

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Speaker 1: to southern all the way down to Florida Bay that

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Speaker 1: was one giant wetland. It's the gradient is crazy. I

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Speaker 1: forget what it is we talked about in that podcast,

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Speaker 1: but it's like an inch over like a mile or

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Speaker 1: a foot over a mile or something like that. So

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Speaker 1: many it's like a many many miles wide river, yes,

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Speaker 1: and shallow and ecologically incredibly rich. But what it would

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Speaker 1: do is to take polluted water historically from developed areas

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Speaker 1: northern Florida, and by the time it reached Florida Bay,

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Speaker 1: it would be cleaned up naturally. And Florida Debay was

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Speaker 1: one of the best fisheries in the world. And then

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Speaker 1: what happened after they channelized that in the center river

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Speaker 1: water east and west is you've had one. Florida Bay

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Speaker 1: was starved of fresh water, as was a bunch of

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Speaker 1: the Everglades. I like to point out to people just

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Speaker 1: so they know, um in top about the Everglades, a

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Speaker 1: lot of times in history we skipped like what like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, now we're dealing with all the dams on

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Speaker 1: the Columbia system, right, and someone's like, you could you

402
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Speaker 1: could be you could have the idea that someone built

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Speaker 1: those damns just to screw salmon, right, But it was

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Speaker 1: their generating electricity, and some people point to the fact

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Speaker 1: that we did one of the you know, and people

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Speaker 1: like to define like how we won World War two.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that we could smell aluminum and

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Speaker 1: make and produce aircraft faster than anybody because we had

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Speaker 1: all that electricity. So at a time, it was like

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Speaker 1: a there's a deliberate thing, and then you move on

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Speaker 1: and you deal with mistakes you made. But they had

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Speaker 1: that in the Everglades, they had that flood. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to kill thousands of thousands of people, but it

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Speaker 1: was even more than that. It wasn't so much the

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Speaker 1: impacts of people on flooding. It was you know, largely mosquitoes.

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Speaker 1: It was, you know, just how to get the water

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Speaker 1: out of there faster in general to quote reclaim it right,

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Speaker 1: so you could then, do you know, more sustainable at

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Speaker 1: your more reliable agriculture in those areas, you could have

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Speaker 1: housing developments that didn't flood every other year. And so

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Speaker 1: that was It wasn't someone being like I got an

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Speaker 1: idea to really mess things up, right, But I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, at that time, you know, the core of

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Speaker 1: engineers across the country channelized rivers, you know, basically made

425
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: them move faster, you know, got rid of wetlands, and

426
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: we're owned for time. We'd recognize the you know, the

427
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: fallacy of that whole model, which was we needed those wetlands,

428
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: We needed the curves in the river which slowed down

429
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: the velocities to mitigate the floods, and but we didn't

430
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: really understand that at the time we were doing all this.

431
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: We could do it because we could and it seemed

432
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: like a good idea at the time. I always wish

433
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: I could go back, and I'm sure you could, if

434
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, a good historian could go back. Is who

435
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: were the at the time there. I'm sure they were

436
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: labeled as lunatics and alarmist. Who were the people that

437
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: were saying, you know what, man, if you do that right,

438
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: those voices are lost, not lost to history probably, but

439
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: lost the popular history, right. Yeah, but they look pretty

440
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: prescient now. Like the guy, the guy on the Columbia

441
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: River that was being like, you know, if you do this,

442
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: my feeling is that you will doom all of those

443
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: salmon species to extinction. And people were probably like, ah,

444
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: you tree hugger. Well, and at that time you could

445
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: even say, well, would just build a hatchery, which is

446
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: what they did. And yeah, so that was why they

447
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: dealt with it there. But in Florida, Yeah, we've seen

448
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: the impacts because now you have the huge dead zones

449
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: and you know, red tides and allergae ballooms coming off

450
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: east and west side for all this water, polluted water

451
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: being shunted out and you know, so that's having huge

452
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: economic impacts. You know, in addition to the decline of

453
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: Florida Bay in the Everglades and you know the various species.

454
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: So we're in the process of restoring that to make

455
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: it work way you know, nature was supposed to make

456
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: it work. So is the is the infrastructure logic? And

457
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: again I support the decision. I'm just trying to I'm

458
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: just trying to get to the lot. Is the infrastructure

459
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: logic that it was like a corp of Engineers infrastructure

460
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: project that created an issue, meaning it was it was

461
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: like earth moving construction, dam building, putting roads on tops

462
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: of dams, and it's not gonna get fixed naturally. We're

463
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: gonna have to go back and re engineered that system.

464
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: And so that's what we're doing in South Florida. Does

465
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: that become a core project, core of engineers, absolutely, and

466
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: money is running through their budget, but also a bunch

467
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: of other budgets. And but that's just a classic example

468
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: of natural infrastructure. Another would be you know, in the

469
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: South Louisiana, you know, reconnecting you know, the Mississippi River

470
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: with this delta because we've basically put up huge levees

471
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: and move all that water and all the sediment that's

472
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: coming down the Mississippi out into the Gulf of Mexico.

473
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: And so you have this huge land loss in Louisiana

474
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: where literally South Louisiana is sinking. Help people understand why

475
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: why the land is vanishing, because historically the Mississippi River

476
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: would brey it out as soon as it got down

477
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: past New Orleans that area, and you know, all that

478
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: sediment would then settle and maintain you know, this vast

479
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: area of wetlands and that verse area wetlands. In addition

480
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: to being good ecologically, is what protected you know, places

481
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: like New Orleans from hurricanes and you know, tidal surges

482
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: that would come in. And as we lose that, we

483
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: expose you know, the people, you know it too far

484
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: greater risk. And we saw that obviously with the Katrina

485
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: and other events. So we're trying to do an is

486
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: to actually break some of those levees along the lower

487
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: Mississippi River to allow the river to spread back out,

488
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: to allow that sediment to dump where it's supposed to be,

489
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: to you know, keep you know, trying to end the

490
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: subsidence that's happening right now, and then also create a

491
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: natural system that will protect flood surge. Uh. That's easy

492
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: to see on infrastructure because it was one of the

493
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: main reasons you channelize the river was to make it

494
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: predictable for navigation. Like if you go back and read

495
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: um Mark Twain, uh, his book about the river captains. Um,

496
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,719
Speaker 1: you had to have like a guy that knew how

497
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: to navigate that river back in those days, which was

498
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: constantly changing. Um, you couldn't run deep, you couldn't run

499
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: deep vessels. You had to have very detailed, constantly of

500
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: volving knowledge of how to get boats up the Mississippi

501
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 1: Channel because it changed all the time, and they just

502
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: made it a straight shot right for shipping. So that's

503
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: easy to see on infrastructure. I mean, nobody's really talking

504
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: about that main shipping channel, you know, changing that that

505
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: is what it is. But as you get down past

506
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: the New Orleans. Yeah, that is where we need to

507
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: recreate those wetlands. Now another example of things like you know,

508
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: the crossings over highways. Oh, I got one more question

509
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: about the Mississippi. Is is the primary energy the political

510
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: energy to start rehabilitating the delta um, Is the primary

511
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: energy coming from a public safety regarding hurricanes? Or is

512
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: the primary energy coming from the conservation community? All of

513
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: the above. And I think that largely this is being

514
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: funded through you know, basically BP oil spill dollars. So

515
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: there's still some of that has there's still some of

516
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: that that's going to be spent for several more years.

517
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: That's going to be you know obviously you know, kicked

518
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: up through the infrastructure spending. But now it's you know,

519
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: I think they've recognized that as you know, a critical

520
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: to basically you know, protect New Orleans and the people

521
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: that live along there. There's also recognition that we're destroying

522
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: that ecosystem, which is phenomenal, you know, fishery, waterfowl, habitat,

523
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: you name it. So I think everybody has come together

524
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: and this is one of those things like it's Mom

525
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: and apple Pie in Louisiana. By and large, that everybody

526
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: agrees this is the right thing to do. But that's

527
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: been a sea change in people's attitudes, you know, where

528
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: we have a long history of controlling nature and now

529
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: we're trying to get nature and actually play a role

530
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: in protecting us. Just another example of infrastructure would be that,

531
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: you know the part there's a pilot program in the

532
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: bill that was passed in November of million dollars for

533
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: expanding highway overpasses and underpasses for wildlife. And you see

534
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: that in places like you know down in you Trapper's

535
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: Point and why Coming and where. They've done that already

536
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: and they're incredibly successful. The animals use them. They reduce

537
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: accidents with people and death and uh, you know so

538
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: And it's just you know, as we think about a

539
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: change in climate and animals needing to move, I mean,

540
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: having those basically intact migration quarters is more important than ever.

541
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: So we're gonna see a big influx of that. And

542
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: it's not just you know, for mule deer and elk

543
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: and you know, prawing horn and wyoming. You know, this

544
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: is gonna be for reptiles and amphibians in New Jersey

545
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: getting under roads as they move and their spring migrations too,

546
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: So it's a difference. A pilot program and it's going

547
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: to be around the country and it's a chance to

548
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: show that really works and to expand that. But this

549
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: is just a different way of thinking about traditional roads

550
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: and bridges. And we have so much better data today

551
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: about you know, how animals move than we did even

552
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: a decade ago. You can be much more targeted, much

553
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: more targeted, and you know where to put that overpass,

554
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: and you know it's going to be used, and you

555
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: it's got to be combined with some fencing to push

556
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: them into there. But you know that is you know,

557
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: that is a solution to a lot of problems because

558
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at a lot of migration maps,

559
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: they end write it, you know I five or whatever

560
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: it is in Wyoming, and that's not the way it's

561
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: supposed to work. Walk me through on those three examples

562
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: unless you're ready to move away from the infrastructre like

563
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: before the infrastructure. So before we leave infrastructure, here's the challenge.

564
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: So we have you know, the billion billions of dollars

565
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: for conservation in that infrastructure package, and we have agencies

566
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: that are not equipped to handle that level of money

567
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: and getting it on the ground is going to be challenge. Well,

568
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: first of all, we've had years of basically bashing the

569
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: federal government and talking about we need to downsize federal government.

570
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: We've had attrition from all the national resource agencies over

571
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: the years. So you need to have an infrastructure in place,

572
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, to apply these funds, make sure they get

573
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: on the ground, you know, in a reasonable way, because

574
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: nobody wants this money to be wasted. Nobody wants to

575
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: just to sit in an agency's bank account and not

576
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: get spent. So part of the challenge here, and we

577
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: have a working group of our various partner organizations that

578
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: is working on this is identify you know, places where

579
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: this money can get put to get it on the

580
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: ground quickly. For example, a National Fish and Wildlife Foundation

581
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, which is handling a lot of the BP

582
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: oil settlement funds is done, has a thirty plus year

583
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: track record of doing great conservation work and knows how

584
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: to get money on the ground quickly with very low overhead.

585
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: You have super size the programs there to get that

586
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: money on the ground. After a Hurricane Sandy in New Jersey,

587
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: they created a coastal Resiliency Fund managed a lot of

588
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: the Department of Commerce funds that came into that to

589
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: basically rebuild you know, wetland habitats, barrier islands, all the

590
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: rest and incredibly successful, matched by private dollars, matched by

591
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: state dollars. Use that same sort of model here, you know,

592
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: to get the money out of the agency's to to

593
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: an organization that knows how to do grants, that knows

594
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: how to monitor, knows how to avoid ait, and knows

595
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: how to get that money out quickly. And that's what's

596
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: happening right now. So they just did an announcement for

597
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: a while ago, a billion dollars going to National fisher

598
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: Wildlife Foundation for a host of different projects, terrestrial, marine,

599
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: you name it. And those are RFPs around the street

600
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: right now. So I think that's the big challenge is

601
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: how do we make sure that all this money has

602
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: been appropriated it actually gets two good projects. And if

603
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't, you can see a change administration that comming

604
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: and saying we have all this unused money, We're going

605
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: to rescind it and pull it back out, and nobody

606
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: wants that to happen. So I think that's a lot

607
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: of the challenge right now, Uh, explain to me how

608
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: if you look at the role of t RCP and

609
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: other players when they're when when they're shaping what the

610
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: infrastructure package will look like. Okay, and they're they're building,

611
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: they're they're they're creating legislation, and they have to keep

612
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: in mind that has that be passable, right, So it's

613
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: not just like a wish list, it's it has been

614
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: somewhat pragmatic to get the votes and has be signed

615
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: by the president. Um at what point does the conservation

616
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: community insert themselves into the dialogue to say, if we're

617
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: gonna be spending money on infrastructure, we need to be

618
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: like spending it in these ways and how do you

619
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: keep it in the end from all the work to evaporating.

620
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: So it was very clear early on that infrastructure was

621
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: one of those few areas that Democrats Republicans could agree on. Yeah,

622
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: Trump talked about it, you know, Obama talked about it,

623
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 1: Biden talked about it on the campaign trail. So back

624
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: during the middle of the Trump administration, we started gearing

625
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: up a campaign with our partner organizations. The way we're organized,

626
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: we have sixty one different groups under our broad umbrella

627
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: and then they mobilized into working groups on particular issues

628
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: like infrastructure, as we may have you know, twenty different

629
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: group on this particular issue. And so we created a

630
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: website years ago called Conservation Works for America that talked

631
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: about putting people back to work through conservation projects and

632
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: the benefits that would do for infrastructure, for natural habitats,

633
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: for hunting and fishing. And based on that platform, then

634
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: that basically gave us a seat at the table early

635
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 1: on as it started again negotiated, and so then as

636
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, became more real under when Biden came in.

637
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: You know, then we were prepared the whole series of

638
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: different road programs and we thought needed investment, and you know,

639
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: and they were happy to have our support on this.

640
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: And because they were trying to make it bipartisan, the

641
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing community tes to lean Republican and so

642
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: I think they valued our input and participation. And plus

643
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: it was the right thing to do. It met their

644
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: climate objectives, met their jobs objectives, and met their infrastructure objectives,

645
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: and you know, was something that you know, was frankly

646
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: pretty easy to get at the end of the day.

647
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: So at some point someone comes in there like I

648
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: got an idea for you, huh. And plus they think

649
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: about the groups that are underneath the partnership. When you

650
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: have Ducks Unlimited, Trout Unlimited, Pheasants, Forever Association, Official Wildlife Agencies.

651
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: I mean, these guys have been doing on the ground

652
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: projects for decades and they know what works and no

653
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. They know the implicant you know, some

654
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: of the you know, basically impediments to getting money on

655
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: the ground, be it NIPA analysis, be it matching, fun requirements,

656
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: things like that that all need to be tweaked if

657
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: you're going to get this stuff out and get it

658
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: on the ground quickly. So there's a tremendous amount expertise

659
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: there and this is you know, this is right in

660
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: those groups wheelhouse. And what we do is, you know,

661
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: we take advice from them and then we coalesce, coalesce

662
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: around the lobby and communication strategy and try to push

663
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: that through inside the beltway. And then if we're successful

664
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: like we were this time, there's a buttload of money

665
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: that goes back out to these groups to actually put

666
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: projects on the ground. If you go back to UM,

667
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: if you go back to the Greater Working Outdoors, how like,

668
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: what does implication implementation looking like? There you have some

669
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: of the same challenges. Uh. You know, So just to

670
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: remind your listeners, you have the Great American atdoor ZEKET

671
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: had two big components. One was permanent and full funding

672
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: for the Land of Water Conservation Fund nine million dollars

673
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: a year for projects that conserve sensitive habitats that expand access.

674
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: You know that they could be you know, fee acquisition,

675
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: it could be conservation easements. It runs the gamut. That

676
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: is the only one time in the history of the

677
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: program it was pasted in I think have we had

678
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: full funding of nine million dollars. So again we have

679
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: some of the same challenges with the agencies. The appraisal

680
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: process is a real problem here because the way that

681
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: the federal appraisal process works is they'll look at a

682
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: like a kick ass you know, elk or mule deer

683
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: property in a place like Montana, but they appraised it

684
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: on its ability to grow corner so i beans, and

685
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: so you have these ridiculously low valuations that don't meet

686
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: with today's I mean you look at a Hall and

687
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: Hall brochure or something like that, and these amenity ranches

688
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: that have great habitat are going for insane amounts of money.

689
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: They have nothing to do with how much corn and

690
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: soybean they can produce. Yeah, I've I've heard frustrations from

691
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: agency people about that that. You know, people should be

692
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: clear that that it makes sense and it seems like

693
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: a good thing, um that the government can't just buy

694
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: and like insanely priced pieces of property, like there has

695
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: been some sort of objective understanding of its value in law. Yeah,

696
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: to keep to keep tax prayers from getting screwed by

697
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: someone making like horrible financial decisions, right, like paying a

698
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars for something that's worth ten million bucks.

699
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: You just screwed taxpayers over So, so it's supposed to

700
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: have some discipline, but it has it doesn't keep up

701
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: to speed where someone explaining they're still looking at like

702
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: like stocking rates of cows and calves on places that

703
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: are absolutely gonna sell as recreational wildlife habitat. They're gonna

704
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: sells recreational properties. The values have changed since the nineteen

705
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: and you're not you can't you're not competing, and you're

706
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: not competing in the modern era because it's not a

707
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: thing where you're looking at contemporary comps, and you have

708
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: a landoorder that wants to do the right thing, like

709
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: make this public, you know, and but it's really hard

710
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: for them to do if they're getting off of you know,

711
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: what they would get on the open market, because they're

712
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: just not gonna do it. Yeah, Landard might be like,

713
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: it's got miles of trout stream, hundreds of elk antelope,

714
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: we see black bears and the feathers are sitting there

715
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: like it'll it's got thirteen acres of irrigated LFLFA and

716
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: support three cow calf pairs per you and it you

717
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: know or whatever, and some some texting comes and he's like,

718
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: I'll take it right. So we're having to deal with

719
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: that is shoes is. So that's in the process being

720
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: changed as we speak, and hopefully that gets done pretty quickly.

721
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: But then you also have a sort of a different

722
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: when you look at that it's being changed, but how

723
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: is it being Like what specifically are they changing? I

724
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: think the federal the methodologies. I don't think this has

725
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: to go through Congress. I think this administrative Act. And

726
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: again I've got people on our staff that know far

727
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: more about this than I do. But what they basically

728
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: need to do is you know, publish a new appraisal system,

729
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, that reflects modern values, and that goes through

730
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: a rulemaking process. It takes a little bit of a time,

731
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: and so that whole process is underway right now. In fact,

732
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: we had Tommy Boudreau, who's number two at the part

733
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: of the Interior, talked to our collective groups last week

734
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: about his personal frustration with this, but the fact that

735
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: it is moving forward and as fast as they can

736
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: make it go, and just Washington doesn't do things quickly.

737
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: I've heard other stories of landowners families that want to

738
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: try to move ranch land into public access and just

739
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: grew to be very fastated by the time I can't like,

740
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: I can't do this for three years. No, I totally agree.

741
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: It's a very legitimate concern. Yeah, there's a lot of

742
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: there's economic uncertainty. Who knows that the market's going to

743
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: be like, I can't wait for you guys. But also

744
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: the other thing about the Great American at Doors Act

745
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: and Land and Water Conservation Fund, part of that is

746
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: it really also has a little bit different orientation. I mean,

747
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: we got a provision in that requires at least three

748
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: percent of the funds or upwards of twenty five million

749
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: annually be used for projects to expand public access. So

750
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: instead of on that merit, Yeah, so instead of a

751
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 1: acre plum creek holding someplace that you maybe by under

752
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: land and water conservation function may still be a great project.

753
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: This also encourages the agency to look at maybe that

754
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: half section in someplace you know that may not be

755
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: worth a whole lot by itself, but it opens up

756
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: ten thousand makers of national force behind it, and so

757
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: you know there's a different way of thinking even within

758
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: the agencies that they look at this money and how

759
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: it's going to get spent. Because it's not just big

760
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: landscape level acquisitions. I mean, it's conservation easements, is access easements,

761
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: it's small fee purchases. But it's hard to picture getting

762
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: someone getting a team of people with who can be nimble,

763
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: make quick assessments, quick intelligent assessments, and be nimble enough

764
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: to participate in the market right now. So that's why

765
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: you have the NGO components. So you have groups like

766
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: Nature Conserving Trust for Public Land Conservation Fund that have

767
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 1: done a lot of the early legwork and putting together

768
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: the deals and making the public justification and getting the

769
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 1: landowner trust. And then they're the ones that are private

770
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: being the primary interface with the federal government saying lining

771
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: this up, saying this is cute up, it's ready to go.

772
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: And so the Rocky mountainol Foundation does some stuff. Foundations

773
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: perfect example, like they'll work deals. We're ranchers who may

774
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: even be members of r M e F come to

775
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: r M e F and be like, we'd love to

776
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: get our place protected, but yeah, and then that they

777
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: become the interface with the federal agency or the state

778
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: agency or whatever might be that is, you know, would

779
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: take ownership or hold the conservation easement. There are other

780
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: times for these groups will actually buy the area in fee,

781
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: just because the landowner is facing you know, a real

782
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: crunch from cash and this can't wait. With the understanding

783
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: that then they'll flip it to the federal agency. But

784
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: you know, that puts a big burden on the nonprofit

785
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 1: because all of a sudden they're out however many million

786
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: dollars that they're having to sit there and wait for

787
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: the federal government to get in its active there's probably

788
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: always some apprehension that they'll change their mind. Sure, I man,

789
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: And that's the risk of the game. But the groups

790
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: like Conservation Fund, Trust republic Land, I mean, these are pros.

791
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: They've been doing this for years. I think they have

792
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: a pretty good sense about, yeah, this is gonna happen

793
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: or not. And now that you have a guaranteed stream

794
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: of federal funding through land and water conservation, one is

795
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: far more certain that's going to happen at some point.

796
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: The old day is a real concern was Okay, we'll

797
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: go ahead and buy this. But let's say Congress instead

798
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: of giving nine million dollars only decides to give it

799
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: a hundred million, and that's competing with projects all around

800
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: the country. Then you can really be screwed. Are they

801
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: having uh? Are they having a hard time finding projects

802
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: on the right timeline? Plenty of projects out there is

803
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: a backlog of projects that are ready to go. The

804
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 1: issue is more on the just the administrative side, getting

805
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: the appraisal process fixed, getting the people within the agencies

806
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: to deal with, and three times as much volume of

807
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: transactions as they've been doing historically, which means staffing up

808
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 1: to a certain degree. So those are the bigger challenges. Now.

809
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: You also have in the Great American Outdoors Act and

810
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: nine and a half billion dollar trust fund to address

811
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: the maintenance backlog on public lands, national parks, national forests

812
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 1: that could be campgrounds, could be visit of centers, could

813
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 1: be roads, could be trails. So you know that they're

814
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: facing a lot of the same problems there too about

815
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: capacity because if you have an agency whereas you know,

816
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: you have a lot less people than you had a

817
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: few years ago, and all of a sudden you have

818
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: this money to go do all this stuff, it's hard.

819
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes you get that money on the ground. Now you're

820
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: not going to go out there and build that businitess

821
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: and you're gonna contract with somebody else. But you've got

822
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 1: to do that due deal. Just on the front hand.

823
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: You gotta go put out a bid. You gotta go

824
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: through the RFP process and make sure you're again not

825
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: getting screwed because this taxpayer money that you're using. Yeah, Uh,

826
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: explain the map Act. So map Land is an act

827
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: that just passed. So it's it's m A P L

828
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: A N D map Land, which is making our public

829
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: Lands Accessible Act. It's I'm probably it's an acronym, yeah,

830
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: but it's a nice acronym. Map Land. So this is

831
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: the just passed the House in the Senate, signed by

832
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: Biden two weeks ago. Uh, unanimous vote out of the Senate.

833
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: And what this does is unanimous. Yeah, so I knew

834
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: it passed overwhelming you, but I don't know it's unanimus.

835
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: It was overwhelming in the House. I think we had

836
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: like nine people that voted against it, and then you

837
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: then listened the Senate. You know, you haven't explained it

838
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: to people yet. I'm just curious. Now. The nine that

839
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: didn't like it, what the what then they like about it?

840
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: Anti just anti federal government. Um, you know, it's going

841
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: to cost some dollars. They could sort of fall in

842
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: on the taxpayer concern. It's basically people that don't like

843
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: conservation and out of the spending money. Out of the

844
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: almost four people hanging around the house, yeah, nine didn't

845
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: like it exactly, and then every senator liked it. Yeah.

846
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: So anyway, what it does This goes back to the

847
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: projects we did with on X that identified landlocked public lands.

848
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: And you know, in that process we went through a

849
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: multi year and a series of different reports and anybody

850
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: can read them on our website, but identify all these

851
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: lands of the public owners the public can't get access

852
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: to because there's no legal acts us right. Well, in

853
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: the process of doing that, we discovered that there are

854
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: a whole lot more legal access rights that we know about.

855
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: And Joel Webster, who runs our Western Lands or Western

856
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: conservation programs, you know, he and the folks and on X,

857
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: that dude is one of the sharpest minds when it

858
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: comes to I mean I land designations, land access and

859
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: he is like, I think it like our little mad

860
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: scientist in the back room concocting new schemes to protect

861
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: public land to expand access, and comes on him was like,

862
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: that's how in the world does he know all that? Yeah,

863
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm so distracted by wondering how he like he lives. So,

864
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, hardcore public land hunter. He'd be like,

865
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, what do you see like a railroad crossing

866
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: and it says something or another around the map, but

867
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: then next to that it says something or not about

868
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: d O T whatever. He'll be like, oh, that's because yeah,

869
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: it's like no ship really so but tooking back to

870
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: the map land, I mean, part of this process with

871
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: on X, they discovered that the agencies and this is

872
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: really Forest Service in BLM, you know, had you know,

873
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: somewhere around fifty thousand negotiated access easements, of which somewhere

874
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: around five thousand actually been digitized, so you you knew

875
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: about them through a public process, so if you're using

876
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: your on X or something like that, it would show up.

877
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: The rest of them are in boxes in the basements

878
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: of ranger districts someplace. And we asked the forest like,

879
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: do you mean literally literally? Do you mean that if

880
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: the building burnt down? Yes, well, as it is right now.

881
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: Nobody the people that are there. These may have been

882
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: negotiated fifty years ago. People there now have no idea

883
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: about them. At Lander may have put up a gate

884
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: someplace a long time ago, nobody really noticed. Everyone assumed

885
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: it's been awful mists forever and he sold it three times.

886
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: So we asked the Forest Service, and this is Forest

887
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: Service is probably the worst. I mean, they've got thirty

888
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: five thousand, you know, access easements, of which far less

889
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: than five thousand have been actually digitized. So we asked

890
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: them how long it would take you guys to get

891
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: this stuff basically into a only first century format. And

892
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 1: they're like, well, our current levels of funding probably between

893
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: ten and twenty years, And so what we did was

894
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: you know, Joel and his team drafted up this bill

895
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: that would give the agencies the money they need, give

896
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: them a two year window to get this all done,

897
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: tell them to get together to come up with a

898
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: common data set because of course the agencies also have

899
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: their own process in their own data standards, and get

900
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: it done. And so you know, that's what passed Congress.

901
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: And I think this is gonna be a real game

902
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: changer for a lot of the public land access because

903
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: then if you have your handheld GPS, you're on X

904
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: or whatever your format might be, you're gonna see you

905
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: know what it where we have legal access rights, then

906
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: they're gonna be a bunch of stuff showing up that

907
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: we had no idea was there. We have a mutual acquaintance, okay, uh,

908
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: his name is Carl. Yes, he recently had a very

909
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: interesting I'd to have him explained as himself in long form.

910
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm not gonna talk about where it is.

911
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: We said, a very interesting discovery in the Midwest where

912
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 1: he's looking at maps and sees that there's this block

913
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: of state land and there is a hundreds of yard long,

914
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: hundreds of yard long strand on the map marked of

915
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: like what appears to be state land that's literally feet wide.

916
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: He's a lands expert, so he noticed something that maybe

917
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: peopleuldn't have noticed. He goes over to have a look

918
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 1: and it is the wind row, the wind row between

919
00:53:53,760 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: two crop fields, which is piled up with rock as

920
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: the over the years farmers kick up rock, throwing the

921
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: wind row. It's rock and briar, but it's a wind row.

922
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: And he goes and does some research and it turns

923
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: out this is owned by the state. He goes and

924
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: has a chat with one of the neighboring landowners who

925
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: assures him that it's been closed. Right ah. He goes

926
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: to the state office. They're like, that hasn't been closed. Um,

927
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 1: you can definitely use it. There hasn't been a trail there,

928
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: but it was meant to be. And in fact, we

929
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: don't I don't know what happened. That guy has asked

930
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: us to close it. We don't really know what that means.

931
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: And he walks down that stumb bitch gets down there

932
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: and guess what he finds all kinds of This is

933
00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: a place you can't bait, all kinds of bait piles. Hey,

934
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: it's been and then he parked and he can legally

935
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: park on the right away, and he does this trudge.

936
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: He says, it takes about an hour and a half

937
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: to go down this thing to get to this lake

938
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: that's otherwise inaccessible. And the guy leaves, um notes, I'm

939
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: calling the sheriff. He goes and says, let's call the

940
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: sheriff together. Well, I'm not calling him right now, but

941
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: it's a crazy story. I don't think that's it's not

942
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: federal but a state right, It's not. It's not isolated.

943
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find as we do this process

944
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: and get this implemented, you're gonna find those all over

945
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: the place. And as you you talked about, corner crossing

946
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: is a little bit. I mean, this all sort of

947
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: plays into you know, one way to deal with overcrowding

948
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: on a bunch of our public lands is to expand

949
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: access to the public lands that nobody has access to

950
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: right now. And map land is one tool to help

951
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,760
Speaker 1: us do that. And it's not infringing on private property

952
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: rights because we own these and you know, maybe the

953
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: new landowner doesn't know that, but this is gonna help

954
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 1: I think a long term with reduced conflicts with private

955
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: landowners because you know, this is the way it is.

956
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: It's gonna be digitized. Everyone knows where it is, and

957
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: everyone knows where it isn't. That's the thing I think

958
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: people need to um not need to this. The thing

959
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: I'd like people to recognize is it's instead of the

960
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: public take like, instead of the public going to sort

961
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 1: of like taking something from a private landowner, it's that

962
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna say it's in effect, the private landowner

963
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: has taken something from the public, the private landowners utilizing

964
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: as their own something that isn't. There's so if you

965
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: if you believe in this whole like you know, this

966
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: whole idea of a property rights and stuff, we're just

967
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 1: we're simply the public is simply asserting it's property rights.

968
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: And if it's saying we the republic have access to

969
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: certain things, we'd like to clarify what it is and

970
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: utilize it. And there may be no malice on the

971
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: landowner's part. May have you changed hands two or three

972
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: times since this was negotiating, he had probably had no

973
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: idea here or she And it's got to be a

974
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: rude it's a rude awakening. You can like I can

975
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 1: easily get in the head of someone who has been

976
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: on some chunk of ground for you know, twenty years,

977
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden someone says, hey, you know,

978
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: I hate to break it to you, but it turns

979
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: out your driveway is a road. Yeah, of course you're

980
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: gonna of course yours. No one's gonna be like, oh well,

981
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: in that case, welcome, But it is what it is.

982
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of other stuff we're working on right now.

983
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: There's a bill that's pending in the Senate called Recovering

984
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: America's Wildlife Act, And that's a slam, don't right, Oh no, no, no,

985
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: this is a you know, I mean, it's We've got

986
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: sixteen Democrats, sixteen Republicans on it, and this is in

987
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: the Senate, so I mean, it's got good bipartisans support.

988
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: But it's gonna cost, you know, one point four billion

989
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: dollars a year, and any time that you have something

990
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: that's that expensive, there's gonna be opposition to it. We

991
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: know that. And it's not gonna be something that sales

992
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: through a hundred or nothing. But you know the rationale

993
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: behind this bill. But you have a split number of

994
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans supporting it. Yeah, but that's you know,

995
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: still thirty or thirty two out of a hundred and

996
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: not heard about it yet. Oh they may have heard

997
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: about it, they just haven't signed on as co sponsors.

998
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: When they signed US co sponsors, we know we got

999
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: their vote, and we're we've been very deliberate of making

1000
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: sure that for every Democrat we take get we're going

1001
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: to get a Republican to keep this bipartisan going the

1002
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: way through. And you got how many thirty two right

1003
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: now and how many even have you talked too, We've

1004
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: talked all of that. Well, you only got eighteen to

1005
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: go in your halfway and you're at the You also

1006
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: have the filibuster in the Senate, which means you have

1007
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: to get above sixty and uh, you know so. But anyway,

1008
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: I think we can get it done. But it's not

1009
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: slam dunk by enemies. But what this bill would do

1010
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 1: is invest this money one point four billion a year

1011
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: two states to work on essentially non game wildlife issues

1012
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: and with the goal of keeping species off the Endangerous

1013
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: PECS Act list. And you think about you know, the

1014
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: state agencies which have primary jurisdiction for managing wildlife, you know,

1015
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: somewhere in that plus of their annual budgets come from sportsmen. Yeah,

1016
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: through you know, the excise taxes that go back out

1017
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: to the states for yeah, fishing, tackle, ammunition, guns, archery equipment,

1018
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: motor boat fuel, all the rest, and the licenses that

1019
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: we all pay and the tags we buy and all that.

1020
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: So sportsman is basically paying for wildlife management for years

1021
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: and some of that is understand. The agencies used to

1022
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: deal with things butterflies, bats, you know, whatever the non

1023
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: game species might be, but it's not a sustainable model.

1024
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: And several years ago the states developed what they call

1025
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: their Wildlife Action Plans, which is what they would need

1026
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: to deal with all these species that are in decline

1027
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: that will probably eventually get listed and you know, cost

1028
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: a ton of money to recover. So how do we

1029
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: get ahead of that? And they added up you've added

1030
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: up the fifty states and the territories and it came

1031
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: out to one point four billion a year, which is

1032
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: why we came up that number. So in this you know,

1033
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: it's a penny wise, you know, this is a good

1034
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: investment to save a lot of money down the road,

1035
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: because you know, if as we say, if it's species

1036
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: gets down to a red wolf status and we're spending, however,

1037
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: many tens of millions of dollars you had to try

1038
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: to recover that species, it would have made a whole

1039
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: lot more sense before it got to that level, and

1040
01:00:55,400 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: red wolf maybe a bad example to spend. Yeah, end

1041
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: that money in advance to make sure that these species

1042
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: aren't you collapsing. And plus we're really talking about habitat management,

1043
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: so we're talking about you know projects, if you think

1044
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: about something like the sage brush step, you know, sage

1045
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: grouse is obviously iconic species there, but we also have

1046
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: three and fifty other species that are not really game

1047
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: species that occupy that exact same ecosystem. So honestly, the

1048
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: reason we've been pushing this as much as one we

1049
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: think that we need that investment, but to this is

1050
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: going to help game species as well, because we're really

1051
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: going to be investing in habitats and not just single

1052
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: species management. So we think it makes a ton of sense. Um,

1053
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: we hope we're gonna be able to get it done

1054
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: this year, but you know it's again, I think it's

1055
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: gonna be a fairly heavy lift. There's companies that want

1056
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: to touch on UM. I don't want to back up

1057
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: a little bit. We talked about Great American Outdoor z

1058
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,439
Speaker 1: Act in the Land and Water Conservation Fund. I feel

1059
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: like a lot of people sitting there being like, where

1060
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: is all this money coming from? At one point we

1061
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: didn't cover this. But in the case of the Great

1062
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: American Outdoors Act, which is funding l w CF Land

1063
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:05,439
Speaker 1: and Water Conservation Fund funding, UM, that was a deal

1064
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:14,959
Speaker 1: struck when in nine it was that when when an

1065
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: oil company is leasing from the American people offshore oil

1066
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: field land. So it's like you get out how many

1067
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: miles you've gotta get off the coast where you're out

1068
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: of state water? Okay, So if you if you let's

1069
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: say you live in California and you get in your

1070
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: boat and start heading west, you are in California water

1071
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: for a few miles, and then you enter United States

1072
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: water and that goes I don't know, quite a way.

1073
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: So that's land on by the American people. Someone's gonna

1074
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: go drill for oil. The for profit venture is going

1075
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: to go drill for oil. Well, there's ranking a deal

1076
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: with the American people saying like we would like to

1077
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: lease this oil site from the American people to drill

1078
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: oil to sell oil. That is where this revenue comes from.

1079
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: It's a it's a percentage of the lease fee. So

1080
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: we're saying as Americans, you know, like our representatives saying, Okay,

1081
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna pay us acts to use our land to

1082
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 1: draw oil from and we're gonna say that a percent

1083
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: of how many of that? Do you remember what it is?

1084
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: I can't remember it was, you know, as the percentage

1085
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: would have changed by now because it was a set

1086
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: dollar figure. So they're saying, of that money, this amount,

1087
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: like of the money you're paying to US America, we're

1088
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: pledging to spend this amount on access conservation projects. So

1089
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: this isn't like money that is just getting pulled out

1090
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: of thin air. This was a deal that was struck

1091
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: back then that allowed the Outer Continental Shelf to be

1092
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: opened up for oil and gas development, and then the

1093
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: oil industry and return agreed to pay into this fund

1094
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: to pay for conservation on yeh. And it was a

1095
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: a great model and it's worked well. The exception that

1096
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: the legislation was written in a fashion that didn't make

1097
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: that funding until the Great American ADOR's Act passed mandatory.

1098
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: So every year our Congress will see that nine hundred

1099
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: million dollars inside, well, let's not appropriate, maybe nine hundre

1100
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: millions to four hundred million, even though we were supposed

1101
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: to or but it wasn't protected from that. So Congress

1102
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: a raid it for all sorts of other purposes, and

1103
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: that was what got fixed in the Great American Doors Act. Now,

1104
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: obviously nine million dollars today is not worth the same

1105
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: as it was. It's still a lot of money, but

1106
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: it's a fraction of what it was originally intended to be.

1107
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: It would have been better if it was a percentage

1108
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: it would have been. But you know, listen, I'm happy

1109
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: we get nine hundred million dedicated for this because there's

1110
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: a whole lot better than what we were getting in

1111
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: the case of uh, let's let's take this recovering America's

1112
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: Wildlife Act situation. So here's the thing that it's helpful

1113
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: to consider. I remember I was talking with a policy guy.

1114
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: It worked on grizzly bear policy, and in the lower

1115
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: forty eight grizzly bears are um listed as threatened under

1116
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act. And someone was telling me that

1117
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: the state of Idaho, Okay, the state of Idaho, through

1118
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 1: the Fish and Game Agency, which is funded by hunters

1119
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: and anglers. They spend half as much on every annually.

1120
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: They spend half as much on every grizzly bear that

1121
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: lives in Idaho as they do on every kid enrolled

1122
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: in public school. I would be a skeptical of that number.

1123
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: But okay, does it come No, Listen, I got it

1124
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: through the New York Times fact checker. They don't know

1125
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: anything through, but run it, run it again. The state

1126
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: of Idaho was spending what what they are spending. Nine

1127
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: They they cost them like nine thousand bucks per year

1128
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: per kid for public school. If that was I don't

1129
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 1: remember the exactly, nor something like that. The State Idaho

1130
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: is spending four thousand five dollars on every grizzly baronet stage. Sorry,

1131
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: you're not talking accumulative total. No, I'm saying they spend

1132
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: half as much per bear as they do per kid

1133
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: to put them in public school. To put into context

1134
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: like what it costs what managing like what it costs

1135
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: to manage imperiled species. It's expensive to mandage imperiled species. Um.

1136
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: So when you get into this question of is there

1137
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: a better funding mechanism than than having a state which

1138
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: is get all of it's funding through hunter angler participation

1139
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: or excise taxes on sporting goods. To to have this

1140
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: like chunk of money spread so thin, as like you're saying,

1141
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: as we have increasing numbers and sure to have more

1142
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: species make the endangered Species list, it's at a point

1143
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like week at a state level, we

1144
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: can't do it anymore. I know there's fun, there's like

1145
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: federal mechanisms too, but at a point you're going to

1146
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: be that we're trying to and I know that state

1147
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: fish and game agencies are encouraged not to think this

1148
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 1: way anymore. Where they look at like that they have

1149
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: a clientele, their clientele being like hunters and anglers, and

1150
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: hunters and anglers want to see lots of oh, lots

1151
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: of turkeys, well managed resources, and so they're like, I

1152
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: want my money, Like I'm paying the money because I

1153
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: want I like to hunt. I want you to take

1154
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: my money and make sure that these things that have

1155
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: all this public support are viable. And you don't have

1156
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: people buying butterfly stamps stamps, so there's a there's a

1157
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: whole huge hole. And and how we look at this stuff. Yeah,

1158
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: and I just think that, you know, triage is not

1159
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: where we want to get. We want to protect the

1160
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: ecosystems that maintain these species that are on the decline,

1161
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, so they never get to that trio situation

1162
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: where it costs so much money. And that's what those

1163
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: whole backs about. Yeah, And even if you're not a

1164
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 1: butterfly lover, I can just about guarantee you that if

1165
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: it's good for the butterflies, is probably gonna be good

1166
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: for your turkeys and deer too. Oh. Indeed, there aren't many, Um,

1167
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: there aren't many habitat moves that turn out being bad

1168
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 1: for something cases where you go help one thing and

1169
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: it turns out being bad for something else. That's right.

1170
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 1: A couple other things is worth noting. Um, we just

1171
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 1: had a big milestone on Striped Mass on the East,

1172
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: which is the number one marine recreational fish in America.

1173
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: And they know that is that in terms of in

1174
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: terms of angler ours, angler, our economic impact, um. And

1175
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: it's huge. I mean it goes all North Carolina, all

1176
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: the way I pet through Maine. I've never even caught

1177
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: one awesome fish and eat and it's it's really you know,

1178
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: unlike something like a bone fish or a tarp and

1179
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 1: it was it's an every man's fish catching from the beach.

1180
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: It's blue, blue collar. I mean you can catch them

1181
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: from the beach. You don't have to have a fancy boat. Yeah,

1182
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: you can catch them on a fly. You can walk

1183
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: down Rhode Island, walk them down the beach. So I

1184
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: saw a bunch of them, and you catch out there

1185
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: and you actually catch a whole bunch of blue fish.

1186
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: But now and then, yep, there is so anyway the

1187
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: stripe bass. You may remember, you know, there was a

1188
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: full moratorium back in the nineties, there was so overfl

1189
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: like it got bad, they got really bad, so over fishing.

1190
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: I mean there was some some habitat stuff too, but

1191
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 1: it was recreation. It was recreational and commercial. I mean

1192
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: recreational is the bigger part of the problem today. Like

1193
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 1: recreational anglers actually put a hurt on that fish. I

1194
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: mean commercial did too. But you know today s the

1195
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, the fish that are caught are caught by

1196
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 1: are killed or killed by recreational language. Really and that's

1197
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 1: how popular are the fishes. I always run around telling

1198
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 1: people that like regulated recreational fishing is negligible. I mean

1199
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: regulated is the key word there. And we just didn't

1200
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 1: do what we need to do at that time to

1201
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: regulate it properly and until it was too late, and

1202
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: we had a full last moratorium on commercial and recreational

1203
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: harvest for years. And was it because people are killing

1204
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: big females? That was certainly part of the problem. Yeah,

1205
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: and you have a big female, forty female can lay

1206
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: I forget million eggs or something. I mean, they are

1207
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: incredibly fakun and uh, but we were, you know, starting

1208
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: to lose them. And also you're you're killing you know,

1209
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 1: they're just killing too many fish period and even catching release.

1210
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: You know, we are far better today at you know,

1211
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 1: surviving you know, knowing how to do that properly without

1212
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 1: huge you know, impacts me. If you're if you're using

1213
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: live bait with trouble hooks, you know, and you're letting

1214
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: the fish swallow it, You're not going to release that fish,

1215
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: even if it's below the slot limit or you want to.

1216
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: You've already caught your limit for the day. That fish

1217
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: is going to die. Yeah. So you know they've there

1218
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 1: have been a lot of advancements and you know, they

1219
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: see more reducing mortality. But the species has still been

1220
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: in basically steady decline for the past twenty years still now.

1221
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: And the last management action that was taken was taken

1222
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: in two thousand three or two thousand four, and that

1223
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: was what they call Amendment six to the Strip Bass

1224
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: Plan and that's been intact until today and BASY has

1225
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: been in place as we've been watching this steady decline

1226
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: and so finally this year in fact, just this decline

1227
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,680
Speaker 1: in total numbers is the decline in like numbers of

1228
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 1: large sexony mature fish total numbers at this point. So

1229
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: but they're different management trigger as they look at to determine,

1230
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, how whether over fishing is occurring. You know,

1231
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 1: they do stock assessments, they do younger the year in

1232
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,839
Speaker 1: disease in the key spawning areas, you know, so overall

1233
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: they will look at those and that's determines whether you know,

1234
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 1: the stock is okay or whether it's you know, being

1235
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: over fished. And right now we've been a constant state overfishing.

1236
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: So the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, which is the

1237
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: basically the body made up of all the states on

1238
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: the Atlantic coast, you know, finally adopted last month something

1239
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: called amendiment seven, which dramatically changes how we're gonna be

1240
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: managing stripe best. It makes it much better for conservation. Now,

1241
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: rubbers gonna hit the road in October when we have

1242
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: the stock assessment this year. We didn't get stock assessments

1243
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 1: during the pandemic because they were not doing it, and

1244
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: so we will actually sort of see how bad it

1245
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: is come October, and if it's really bad, you're going

1246
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: to see a whole bunch of triggers put in place

1247
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: to reduce mortality. Give me a preview. Well, we've already

1248
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: had certain things done last year, like requiring circle hooks

1249
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 1: on live bait because the again that trouble hook is

1250
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: not good for catching release. Um, but you know what

1251
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: it could be is yeah, I mean it's it gets

1252
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: pretty walky pretty fast. And you can go on our

1253
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: website and read all about this. But for example, there

1254
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: is something called conservation equivalency, which means that in a

1255
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: place like the chess Peake Bay, which doesn't have a

1256
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: big fish much of the year, they allow you to

1257
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: catch fish that are much smaller and keep some because

1258
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 1: there simply aren't that the slot isn't in there. You

1259
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: know when people are fishing in the summertime, and that's

1260
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 1: been abused over the years. So they're finally gonna if

1261
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: you're if it continued over fishing is occurring, that goes away.

1262
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I'm getting this right. They

1263
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 1: have a slot limit and then guys are like, dude,

1264
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: I'm not catching one that I can keep. Well, if

1265
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 1: you're in the chest back bay, I mean those fish

1266
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: they're in the slot have moved out in the summer,

1267
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: and they're based on based on angler feedback. They're doing

1268
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: an adjustment. Like it's like the never mind the slot.

1269
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: You guys get to have a different you know, management

1270
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: regime down here to allow people to fish, and we're

1271
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: us killing way too many fish. And so you know,

1272
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 1: if we if it's decided that over fishing is still

1273
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 1: occurring come October in the stock assessment, then you know

1274
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: that is going to go away. So yeah, tough. I mean,

1275
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: we just can't kill small fish. Can I share with

1276
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 1: you three quick stripe bass go for things? Uh? I

1277
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 1: spent several months in San Jose, California. One time when

1278
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 1: I was working on a book and I had a

1279
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: I would call him my fake uncle down because he

1280
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: was like not even he was sort of a relative,

1281
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: like a step seemed like uncle, but he wasn't even

1282
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 1: kind of close to my uncle. Anyways. He would take

1283
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: me out trolling in San Francisco Bay for stripe bass,

1284
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,759
Speaker 1: and he would troll so close to the San Quentin.

1285
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 1: You know who was in there at that time? Was

1286
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 1: that Mamber that guy that took his wife out. Says

1287
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: he took her out sturge and fishing, killed her and

1288
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 1: sunk her down at the bottom of the bay. Vaguely, Well,

1289
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 1: he was in there, Lord knows who else. We would

1290
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 1: troll so close to the guard tower at San Quentin

1291
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: that we'd wave to the guards and catch them good.

1292
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: And in the Upper Delaware, I used to go fish

1293
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: the Upper Delaware, uh way up where it's like Pennsylvania

1294
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: and New York Hancock to the West Branch come together.

1295
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,839
Speaker 1: You're catching trout right like it was like rainbows and browns.

1296
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 1: And that's where I was fly fishing two weeks ago. Well,

1297
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: sometimes you've probably seen this happen. I'd be in my canoe,

1298
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, you're catching like rainbows, small moss, whatever, and

1299
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like you looked down in some

1300
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: hole and just stripers as long as your leg, And

1301
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 1: I like, I didn't know because that was new to

1302
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 1: the area. I didn't know that was the thing. And

1303
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, normal, you see something like that,

1304
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:49,720
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, it must be a carp right, like

1305
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: something like that big. But they're fast, And I was like,

1306
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 1: what the I thought I discovered a new species. Someone's like, no, dude,

1307
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: stripe basket will come all the way out of the

1308
01:15:58,120 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: ocean and come up here. So the Delaware is the

1309
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: look like a stream. It's the longest stretch of undamned

1310
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: river in the eastern United States, so all the way

1311
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 1: from south of Philadelphia up to upstate New York. I

1312
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 1: thought I was hallucinating until I figured un till someone

1313
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: explained what I was looking at. Yep, were they ever

1314
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 1: hitting that kind of stuff? I can't even imagine. I've

1315
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: got friends of target them. Yeah, I can't imagine there

1316
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 1: that many that stay up there, but the ones to

1317
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:25,680
Speaker 1: get up there and often, like you know, I mean,

1318
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: not go back out of the ocean because all these

1319
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 1: tastes a little trout in here. Oh, just incredible, man.

1320
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: My final one is this dude, my brother Danny used

1321
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: to work with was in Connecticut, and he took me

1322
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: out one night and uh, what the hell river it was. Um,

1323
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,520
Speaker 1: we wait out on the river like the darkest night imaginable,

1324
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 1: and you can't you can't, I can't tell anything that's

1325
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 1: going on. And you just see the house lights and

1326
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: we're staying in the river like you know, up to

1327
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: your crotch and some river I can't see. We got

1328
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 1: there in the dark, no idea what's going on. And

1329
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: he's like just cast out there, you know, And I'm like,

1330
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: this is the stupidest thing in the look, this will

1331
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: never worked. Oh yeah, one of those things hits in

1332
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 1: the dark, dude. It was amazing, man. And that's the

1333
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 1: time to fish fish because you know the Long Island

1334
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: Sound around there is there's a lot of people, and

1335
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 1: you go during the day there are people everywhere, and

1336
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 1: you got it there at night and these little coastal

1337
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: rivers or flats were right in the mouth of the river. Yeah,

1338
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean you have, first of all, there's nobody around,

1339
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: and you know the fit the fish come in and

1340
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 1: this they fish, they've hit better at night than they

1341
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: do in the daytime. Anyway. Yeah, it's so dark when

1342
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 1: you cast, like cast that plug you could, like the

1343
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 1: plug just sort of vanished into the darkness, like every

1344
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: idea like where you cast. Now, I did that for

1345
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 1: years and I'd love that. Oh he was I thought

1346
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 1: it was a riot. But you know, you get that

1347
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:44,120
Speaker 1: feeling like I don't know what you're going out, but

1348
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 1: there's no way this, Like you can't catch fish like this,

1349
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't work like this. So anyway, I think that

1350
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: the future is finally looking a little bit brighter for

1351
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: striped bass and hopefully we can stem this decline and

1352
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: start a recovery. Now, there are other things that are

1353
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: working against it, you know, from you know, maybe the

1354
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: Chest Peak Bay isn't as productive as it used to be,

1355
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: a climate get a little warmer. How much how much

1356
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:08,840
Speaker 1: pushback do they anticipate from fisherman Very little? So right now,

1357
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean all that and this is one of the

1358
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: cool things about this process. Basically entire recreational community, you know,

1359
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 1: it was on board with you know, taking very strong

1360
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: steps for conservation. Yeah, which is a change. And I

1361
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: mean listen, well, I'll take a little credit for that

1362
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: because you know, we helped assemble the coalition of as

1363
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:30,799
Speaker 1: American support Fishing Association, Coastal Conservation Association, Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation,

1364
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: National Marine Manufacturers, others, to make sure that we were

1365
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 1: all on the same page because you know there are

1366
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 1: other groups you've you know, going to be good on this.

1367
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 1: But you know, our community, especially like the industry, you know,

1368
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,599
Speaker 1: it just hates the thought of you know, fewer people

1369
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: on the water and you know, less economic activity. But

1370
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: I think everybody finally recognized that if we don't take

1371
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 1: some steps now, it's going to give you we're looking

1372
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 1: at another moratorium down the road. And that helps nobody.

1373
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,719
Speaker 1: You know, that's in people's memory. Ye oh yeah, Vivid

1374
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 1: got you. How do they do these accounts? So you know,

1375
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 1: I don't know how they do the stock assessments. They

1376
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 1: do young of the year in disease in the Chesspeake

1377
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: Bay and the Hudson River, which are the two mains

1378
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: spawning areas for stripe bass, and they have certain areas

1379
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 1: they go to all the time, and you know they

1380
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 1: see you basically, you know, this time of year they'll

1381
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 1: go in and do surveys a little bit later about

1382
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:23,680
Speaker 1: the young because they'll come up there, you know, the

1383
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 1: stripe bass like in d C. We'll swim all the

1384
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: way up the Potomac past d See and spawn and

1385
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: they come up there in that you know, February March,

1386
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: you know time frame, and then spawn the little guys

1387
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:37,719
Speaker 1: come out. And there are certain areas where the little

1388
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 1: ones tend to congregate where you can go and do

1389
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 1: a little sane surveys and you use the same methodology

1390
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: year to year. You come up with some pretty good

1391
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: trend lines over time, and they've been bad trend lines

1392
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 1: of late. And we also have things like, you know,

1393
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 1: blue catfish are now in the Chess Peak, which tend

1394
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: to love to eat little stripers, and that's an invasive species.

1395
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 1: It was never there before. So and people in the

1396
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,640
Speaker 1: Chesty Bay aren't you used to whacking them even though

1397
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: they're great eating and you know, good game fish. But

1398
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: so they're out there and they're relatively unmolested, except they're

1399
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 1: doing a lot of molesting of straight bass. M So

1400
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 1: people gotta start keeping blues. Hit hit them hard. That's

1401
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 1: so good eating fish too. People like to look down

1402
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 1: on the old catfish, but delicious, yeah, cleaning it up right,

1403
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: and fish right especially has been eating straight bass and

1404
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 1: hanging out the sewer system outfall. Another question for you

1405
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: for the recovering America's wildlife? Are there there are there

1406
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 1: non hunting, non sportsman groups that are like chipping in,

1407
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,440
Speaker 1: helping out, pushing for it. Oh, absolutely, like the butterfly

1408
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: Lover group. The environmental community is strongly behind it. I mean,

1409
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 1: this is another one where there is really no separation

1410
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: between our Yeah, what we want, what the environmental community want,

1411
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 1: what's the yeah, So everybody who cares about wildlife wants

1412
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 1: this to happen. When you're in a meeting, um, and

1413
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different wildlife interests in the room,

1414
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 1: including a lot of people who are probably like instinctively

1415
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 1: adversarial to the hunt and fishing community. Um, are you

1416
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 1: guys just all business? Oh? Yeah? And honestly, there aren't

1417
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 1: that many groups. I mean Pete Human Society, they don't

1418
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 1: deal in federal policy. They don't know they they're much

1419
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 1: more comfortable, you know, throwing fake blood on somebody were

1420
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 1: in a fur or something like that. So I mean

1421
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: they're not involved in these negotiations. And you know, honestly,

1422
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: groups like Sierra Club supports hunting and they don't make

1423
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 1: it big. But but like a group like a group

1424
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 1: like Peter doesn't. I never thought about that. They don't

1425
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 1: get there, not a federal policy group. I mean maybe

1426
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: they do in some places, but no, we've never bumped

1427
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:54,800
Speaker 1: into um. But you know, so we work really close

1428
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,960
Speaker 1: to a groups like Audubon. Yeah, yeah, which they're probably

1429
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: like pretty agnostic to it. Actually they're they're fine with hunting.

1430
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just about good management. And you know,

1431
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: so we've worked with him a ton on sage grouse,

1432
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: on infrastructure, on variety of other things. And they've got

1433
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 1: great staff, they have you know, long proud tradition, they

1434
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 1: have good chapters, and you know, some members of Congress

1435
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 1: are rather here from Audubon. Some would rather hear from

1436
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:24,160
Speaker 1: the Boone and Crockett Club. Got you, uh, do you

1437
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 1: feel that the recovering America's wildlife fact if if we

1438
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 1: if it doesn't get done before mid terms, it's just

1439
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 1: all the hubbub of mid terms going to kind of

1440
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: just yeah, I mean, well just so you know, so

1441
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: basically we have a working period between now and I

1442
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: would gets August recess. After the August recess, nothing's going

1443
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:50,839
Speaker 1: to happen basically until after the election. After the election,

1444
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: after the mid term, after the mid term, and then

1445
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 1: it'll be like another little bit of activity, could be

1446
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: a lame duck session, but that all depends on, you know,

1447
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: what's happening in the election. So it's time to the

1448
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: time to do this is now, I think so Yeah,

1449
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, we've got the wind at our back

1450
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 1: right now. We've you know, we've got had Great American

1451
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: Outdoors Act, we've just got map Land, We've had you know,

1452
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: the America's Conservation Enhancement Act. We have a variety of

1453
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 1: other things that are pushing through that we've managed to

1454
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:19,879
Speaker 1: get done. And I really feel that, you know, momentums

1455
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: on our side. We got to use that, uh to

1456
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: close out explain to people, and you've explained it before,

1457
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:36,719
Speaker 1: explained to people, um, the unexpected goodness of of times

1458
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 1: of inflamed part partisanship. Yeah, you know, it's I mean, listen,

1459
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: it's not. DC in general is not a fun place

1460
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 1: to be in these days, especially if you're a member

1461
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 1: of Congress and you want to do the right thing.

1462
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 1: But in this very broken system we're in, it turns

1463
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: out that our issues tend to be ones that you know,

1464
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: folks can come together. Gone you have right, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives,

1465
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 1: and you know so and most members of Congress, maybe

1466
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: a little pollyannic on this, are there for the right reasons.

1467
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 1: They want to do public policy, they want to make

1468
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 1: a difference, they want to do us right, and we're

1469
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 1: giving them things that you know, Republicans Democrats can support.

1470
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 1: They're good on the ground. Yeah, they can be proud

1471
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 1: of for multiple reasons, from hunting and fishing to climate

1472
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: to access and you know, we've you know, we're just

1473
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: in a sweet spot right now. Like if they want

1474
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:30,520
Speaker 1: to have some wine, they can often turn to conservation.

1475
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to win and uh, you know, and these

1476
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: are ones that and honestly, you know, I think that

1477
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, our community is a perfect messenger on this

1478
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: stuff because yeah, okay, the community tends to lean conservative,

1479
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 1: lean Republican, but at the end of the day, they're

1480
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: pragmatists and you know, they care about, you know, conservation,

1481
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,519
Speaker 1: They care about maintaining basically the best conservation system in

1482
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: the world that we have in this country. And you

1483
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: know that requires you know, Democrats, Republicans, and what we're

1484
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 1: trying to do is conservation. It is durable that does

1485
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: not depend on having a Democrat a Republican the White

1486
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 1: House or in the House of Representatives or in the Senate.

1487
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: These things make sense regardless of what parties in power.

1488
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 1: And if we maintain that were true to that, then

1489
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:15,880
Speaker 1: I mean you were at our dinner of umced our

1490
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 1: dinner last week, and we always honor one Republican, one Democrat,

1491
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 1: some of even the private sector. And you know that's

1492
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 1: the whole theme that there's plenty of quite often that

1493
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: private sector individual is is is an industry, you know,

1494
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 1: somewhe from Yeah, this year it was Ben Special, the

1495
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: head of you know, Yamaha Marin and Yama has done

1496
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: unbelievable things. From someone from the beer industry yep, New

1497
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 1: Belgium the year before that. And I mean it runs

1498
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: a gamut, but you know, the hope of some like

1499
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 1: like someone from the corporate world who's running a great business,

1500
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: running a profitable business. But keeping in mind, yeah, we

1501
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:53,840
Speaker 1: we were got with corporate America, and but we try

1502
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,600
Speaker 1: to identify the leaders in each of the sectors and

1503
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 1: not just you know, Padagon in r I. But you know,

1504
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 1: we work a lot with Shell Oil because I think

1505
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 1: they're by far the most conservation minded, progressive of the

1506
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: big oil companies. And listen, oil and gas is gonna

1507
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:10,639
Speaker 1: be here for a long time in the future, even

1508
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,240
Speaker 1: if we get to a much more carbon free society.

1509
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:15,680
Speaker 1: And my trucks is only two years old. I mean,

1510
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be driving for a long time, I hope.

1511
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:20,679
Speaker 1: And but we want to work with companies that really

1512
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: have a commitment to doing the right thing. And you

1513
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 1: know that's sometimes harder than other times. But yeah, like

1514
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: Ben specially Yamaha, that's an easy one. I mean, they

1515
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:31,720
Speaker 1: have walked the walk for a long time now. But

1516
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I mean, there's plenty of disagree

1517
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:37,640
Speaker 1: about in d C, but these issues hunting, fishing, conservation

1518
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 1: should not be one of them. All right, Everyone with

1519
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 1: Fosberg from TRCP. If you like uh withs approach dot org. Yeah,

1520
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 1: if you like withs approach and you like the kind

1521
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: of projects t RCP works on, tell them how to

1522
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 1: go find more. Yeah, just go to our website. This

1523
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 1: is pretty wonky, but we try to boil it down

1524
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 1: so it's understandable for the late person. And uh, you know,

1525
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:04,720
Speaker 1: become an activist and membership is free if you want

1526
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: to give us a little money exchange for something we'd

1527
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 1: love to have it. Um. But you know you will

1528
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:11,400
Speaker 1: get those updates weekly if what's happening in d C,

1529
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,519
Speaker 1: and you'll have plenty of opportunities to weigh in yourself

1530
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: and uh TRCP dot org. Yeah, all right, thanks everybody,