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Speaker 1: Now Here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Ron Felber is a graduate of Georgetown University, Loyola University,

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Speaker 2: and Drew University, where he earned his doctorate. He began

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Speaker 2: his career writing stories for True Detective magazine and the

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Speaker 2: iconic Nick Carter series while working as a deputy sheriff

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Speaker 2: transporting federal prisoners. The Runaway earned Ron the United Press

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Speaker 2: International Award for Fiction. He was the recipient of the

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Speaker 2: Albright Award for his nonfiction bestseller Mojave Incident. Some of

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Speaker 2: his books have made their way to film and television,

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Speaker 2: including The Mojave Incident, Il Doughty, The Double Life of

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Speaker 2: a Mafia Doctor, and The Hunt for Coon Saw. His

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Speaker 2: most recent title, The Unwelcomed The Curious Case of Clara Fowler,

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Speaker 2: is based on a true medical case history passed along

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Speaker 2: to him by William Peter Bladie, author of The Exorcist.

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Speaker 2: Ron Felber, Welcome back to Coast to Coast AM.

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Speaker 3: How are you good to be with you? Richard?

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Speaker 2: What were the circumstances under which you met William Peter Bladdie,

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Speaker 2: the author of the Exorcist, and his sharing of this

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Speaker 2: remarkable case of Clara Fowler.

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Speaker 4: But I think this is a case where luck and

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Speaker 4: maybe determination meet because he was filming The Exorcist in

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Speaker 4: nineteen seventy two when I was a student at Georgetown University,

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Speaker 4: and oddly enough, I had just finished my first novel. So,

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Speaker 4: like a lot of first novel novelists, you know, I

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Speaker 4: desperately wanted to get this published. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 4: if I could get this into the hands of Bill Bladie,

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Speaker 4: who at the time had a book that was on

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Speaker 4: the bestseller list for fifty six weeks, maybe he would

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Speaker 4: help me get it published. So I didn't get to

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Speaker 4: see him directly because the film stat was closed off

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Speaker 4: and they had fog machines and everything else around Georgetown

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Speaker 4: at the time, but he had an office across the

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Speaker 4: Potomac at the key Bridge Marriott, and I did get

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Speaker 4: to meet his administrative assistant. I handed her the manuscript

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Speaker 4: and said, please give this to William Peter Blattie. She said, well,

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Speaker 4: I'll put it in the stack over here.

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Speaker 3: And there are about.

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Speaker 4: Seventy manuscripts from all over the world that people young

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Speaker 4: writers like me had sent to him hoping that he

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Speaker 4: would help them get published. I guess in any case,

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Speaker 4: I convinced her because I was there physically and didn't

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Speaker 4: put it in the mail or something like that to

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Speaker 4: give it to him. He did. And actually I went

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Speaker 4: back for Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 3: Holiday my parents in.

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Speaker 4: New Jersey, and I got a call from William Peter Blatty,

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Speaker 4: and of course I was delighted about that. He said

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Speaker 4: he liked the manuscript, he wanted to meet.

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Speaker 3: So we struck up a friendship.

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Speaker 4: And actually i'd finished writing another novel that he offered

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Speaker 4: to help me with, and I flew out to California,

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Speaker 4: and by coincidence, again this wasn't planned. It was ost week,

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Speaker 4: Academy award week, and so I stayed with he and

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Speaker 4: his wife Linda at the time in Malibu, and during

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Speaker 4: that time he told me about this case that he

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Speaker 4: had come upon in researching The Exorcist, and this was

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Speaker 4: the case of Clara Fower.

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Speaker 2: So why didn't Bladdie write this case? Why did he

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Speaker 2: he write The Exorcist? Why didn't he write the Clara

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Speaker 2: Fowler case or is part of Clara Fowler in his

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Speaker 2: work The Exorcist?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what he did he tried, like I

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Speaker 4: did in writing this story, to write.

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Speaker 3: It as a documentary.

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Speaker 4: So he at first wrote The Exorcist as a documentary

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Speaker 4: based on two cases.

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Speaker 3: One of them was a.

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Speaker 4: Clara Fowler case, but the other was the more predominant one,

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Speaker 4: which was a young boy I think about fourteen years

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Speaker 4: old who was in Maryland and just down the street

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Speaker 4: from Washington Georgetown, and in the paper he had read

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Speaker 4: an article when he was a student at Georgetown and

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Speaker 4: it talked about this possession case. And so I think

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Speaker 4: he tried to write it as a documentary as I did,

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Speaker 4: and found that it was dry and too too much

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Speaker 4: like a medical case history and a textbook, And so

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Speaker 4: he decided to take the general concept of demonic possession

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Speaker 4: and exorcism and novelize them.

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Speaker 2: So tell us more about Clara Fowler. She's a student

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Speaker 2: at Radcliffe College. What sort of behaviors was she exhibiting

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Speaker 2: and who witnessed those behaviors?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is what makes us such a such a incredible.

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Speaker 3: Story because it went on for a number of years, and.

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Speaker 4: It was studied by a team of physicians that really

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Speaker 4: the most prominent psychotherapists and psychiatrists of the time, doctor

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Speaker 4: Morton Prince, who whose father, by the way, was Mayor

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Speaker 4: of Boston, so Boston Brahmin, graduate of Harvard Medical School

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Speaker 4: and a lecturer at Tough Medical School. The famous William James,

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Speaker 4: really the father of abnormal psychology, who was the first

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Speaker 4: to teach abnormal psychology at Harvard Medical School. Richard Hodgson,

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Speaker 4: who was president of the Psychical Research Society and a spiritualist,

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Speaker 4: and they were joined by Princess protege, George Waterman who

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Speaker 4: was also a Harvard graduate, and the clairvoyant Leonora Piper.

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Speaker 4: So this was study from a number of points of view.

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Speaker 4: It started with Clara being afflicted by what they called

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Speaker 4: at the time nourristhenia, and this would be a condition

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Speaker 4: of fatigue, lack of a appetite, insomnia for example. And

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Speaker 4: originally she went to Putnam Jackson Putnam who was a

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Speaker 4: prominent general physician, and the symptoms got so extreme that

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Speaker 4: he wrote to Prince sent her to Prince realizing this

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Speaker 4: was above his you know, this was not his field

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Speaker 4: of expertise. And when he wrote to Prince, and I

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Speaker 4: have the letter in the book was basically, she exhibits

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Speaker 4: all the symptoms. If I didn't know better, and if

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Speaker 4: we were living in different times, I would suggest that

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Speaker 4: this is a case of demonic possession, but I leave

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Speaker 4: that up to you. And so Prince formed this team

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Speaker 4: around this.

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Speaker 3: Young woman.

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Speaker 4: And the symptoms were, you know, were incredible. I mean,

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Speaker 4: her face would remold into a different faith. Her voice

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Speaker 4: would change into this boomy, raspy, terrifying voice that of

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Speaker 4: a man. She spoke in different languages, tremendous strength, had

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Speaker 4: unbridled rage at religious articles, you know, a Bible, rosaries.

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Speaker 3: A priest at church.

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Speaker 4: She even exhibited some elements of clairvoyants where she would

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Speaker 4: predict what was going to happen to Prince Ergo James,

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Speaker 4: and of course it would happen, and usually they weren't

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Speaker 4: nice things. James studied.

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Speaker 3: William James, who was a.

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Speaker 4: Great practitioner in terms of abnormal psychology, studied the demonic

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Speaker 4: presence and came to some conclusions. It felt no pain,

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Speaker 4: for example, it had no need for food or sleep.

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Speaker 4: Of course, it called itself a spirit and a demon.

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Speaker 4: It exhibited no illness or fatigue. It was awake twenty

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Speaker 4: four to seven, so it knew clarifyllers every thought, every desire,

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Speaker 4: and it exploited those things against her to take over

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Speaker 4: the body and to actually uh try to kill her.

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Speaker 2: Were these behaviors witnessed by any of her fellow students

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Speaker 2: When she was attending Radcliffe.

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Speaker 4: What she would have, and this is a phrase that

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Speaker 4: I think we're all familiar with, is missing time. When

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Speaker 4: the demonic presence would appear, she would her they actually

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Speaker 4: have battles for the body, where with great rapidity Clara

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Speaker 4: would face would appear, then the demon's face would appear,

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Speaker 4: and it would be the struggle for control of the body.

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Speaker 4: The demonic presence realized that the weaker, the weaker Clara

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Speaker 4: was physically and mentally, the easier it was to take over,

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Speaker 4: and so she experienced missing time. And during that missing

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Speaker 4: time a number of things would happen. One is that

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Speaker 4: she would be taken on long walks, exhaustly walks for

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Speaker 4: miles and then just left and awakened, so she wouldn't

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Speaker 4: know where she was, She wouldn't know how she got there,

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Speaker 4: and this of course was mentally disturbing, but physically she

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Speaker 4: would have to find her way back, you know, back

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Speaker 4: to the back bay where she lived. And these were

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Speaker 4: the kind of things.

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Speaker 3: So there were.

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Speaker 4: Elements where students, associates, neighbors, things like that.

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Speaker 3: Witnesses, for example.

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Speaker 4: Of her landlady and a boarder that lived nearby lived

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Speaker 4: in the same roomy house as.

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Speaker 2: She did when she was under the watchful eye of

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Speaker 2: this Harvard medical team. Was she pulled out of Radcliffe

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Speaker 2: College or was she actually able to I don't know,

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Speaker 2: you know, maintain her educational pursuit.

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Speaker 4: Yea, now she dropped out. She had to drop out.

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Speaker 4: She was two weeks she couldn't hold. She was a stenographer,

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Speaker 4: she worked as a stenographer and went to school part time,

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Speaker 4: and she had to drop out of all of those

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Speaker 4: things due to just erratic health. But she struggled against

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Speaker 4: this from a large percentage of her life, and eventually

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Speaker 4: she was cured.

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Speaker 2: So doctor Morton Prince, can we describe him as a materialist?

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Speaker 2: He was, yeah, yeah, so he was looking I'm sorry, really, oh,

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Speaker 2: I was just going to say, so he was looking

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Speaker 2: for some what physiological behavioral explanation, like what schizophrenia or

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Speaker 2: something exactly.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting. Years ago, I had a conversation

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Speaker 4: with a publisher actually, and there's a lot of misconceptions

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Speaker 4: about what science was like at the turn of the

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Speaker 4: twentieth century. So I'm talking eighteen ninety eight to nineteen

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Speaker 4: oh four that range. But I mean you had Sigmund

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Speaker 4: Freud it just public nineteen oh one interpretation.

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Speaker 3: Of the dreams.

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Speaker 4: So there was psychoanalysis, which Prince thought was garbage science,

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Speaker 4: pseudo science. Then you had at the time spiritualists, and

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Speaker 4: there were about seven million spiritualists in the United States

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Speaker 4: and in Europe at the time. That included people like

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Speaker 4: Charles Dickens, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the author of the

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Speaker 4: Sherlock Holmes books, Madame Cure, the founder of X rays,

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Speaker 4: Sir Francis.

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Speaker 3: Latt Lodge who Richard Lodge.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, who was a prominent physicist at the time.

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Speaker 3: And so that was the other.

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Speaker 4: Then the other was Prince's point of view, which is

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Speaker 4: really something that's come into favor these days, which is behavioralism.

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Speaker 4: He believed, he was a materialist. He believed that let's

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Speaker 4: say schizophrenia or let's say multiple personality really boiled down

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Speaker 4: to a physical ailment that created these symptoms. So for example,

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Speaker 4: a brain lesion or a chemical imbalance in the brain,

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Speaker 4: so Tourette syndrome for example. You know, nobody would he

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Speaker 4: would not look at that as some did at the

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Speaker 4: time as some exhibition of possession. He said this was

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Speaker 4: caused by a physical malady. The spiritualists, and this argument

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Speaker 4: goes on to this day, believed that there was an

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Speaker 4: interdimensional world, that there was a spiritual world that existed

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Speaker 4: either alongside ours or maybe you know, our reality is

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Speaker 4: in question altogether, and it's a spiritual world as opposed

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Speaker 4: to the materialists.

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Speaker 3: Somebody in between that was on this team.

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Speaker 4: Was William James, who was really open minded to all

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Speaker 4: of these possibilities.

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Speaker 2: Who assembled this team? I mean, such a disparate collection

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Speaker 2: of world views. You've got the materialist Prince, You've got

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Speaker 2: the spiritualist Hodgson, and then, as you say, William James

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Speaker 2: kind of somewhere in the middle, opened to either side.

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Speaker 2: Who put this together? And I'm trying to imagine. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the battles must have been incredible.

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Speaker 4: They really were. But you know, it sounds like it

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Speaker 4: was difficult to do. But these were all buddies. They

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Speaker 4: belonged to the same high society social clubs, the same

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Speaker 4: they went to the same parties, et cetera. So you know,

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Speaker 4: William James was a professor at Harvard. Prince was a

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Speaker 4: professor at Harvard and then Tuft's University as well. George Waterman,

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Speaker 4: who was Prince's protege, graduated from Harvard Medical School, so

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Speaker 4: Prince took him under his wing as a young associate.

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Speaker 4: And then as far as hogs and Hogson was a

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Speaker 4: buddy of Morton Prince, you know, they happened to have

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Speaker 4: different points of view. But in those days, I suppose,

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Speaker 4: you know, you would smoke a cigar and have a

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Speaker 4: you know, a cushioned couch, and you'd have these discussions

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Speaker 4: and they would relate to you things like spiritualism and materialism,

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Speaker 4: and you know, the basic questions I guess all of

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Speaker 4: us have, and they're answered in different ways, is you know,

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Speaker 4: where do I come from? What's the purpose of my life?

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Speaker 4: And what happens when I die? And these were subjects

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Speaker 4: that were very prominent at the time.

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Speaker 2: And for you when you first heard this story from

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Speaker 2: William Peter Bladie, were you were you a skeptic?

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Speaker 3: Were you.

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Speaker 2: A believer in the supernatural?

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Speaker 4: Not?

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 4: You know, I was a writer looking for a great

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Speaker 4: story and I've been fortunate enough to stumble onto them

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Speaker 4: or have them find me whatever. But really, the way

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Speaker 4: Bill presented to me. Wasn't you know in any kind

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Speaker 4: of depth? It was, you know, there's a great story

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Speaker 4: I uncovered. All the information is at the Harvard Medical

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Speaker 4: School Library. There's a curator there named Richard Wolf.

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Speaker 3: I'll contact him.

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Speaker 4: You can go in there and you can look at

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Speaker 4: all this material. But what you'll find is an incredibly

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Speaker 4: studied and documented chase that's jaw dropping.

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