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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Jay Knappen here a podcast that has been really,

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Speaker 3: really fucking bleak basically since Trump took office. So instead

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Speaker 3: of doing another episode about how doom Vus is, we

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Speaker 3: are taking a I don't know a field trip to

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Speaker 3: Argentina to talk about something extremely funny. And that extremely

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Speaker 3: funny thing is the Argentinian President, Javier Malai promoting a

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Speaker 3: meme coin and maybe going down for it and with

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Speaker 3: me to talk about this is really the only person

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Speaker 3: I could have on to talk about a crypto thing.

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Speaker 3: Who is Molly White And I'm trying to explain who

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Speaker 3: Bally White is. My explanation of this is in the

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Speaker 3: same way that the great twentieth century marksis theorist C.

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Speaker 4: LR.

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Speaker 3: James's book Beyond a Boundary is both universally considered to

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Speaker 3: be the best book ever written about cricket and also

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Speaker 3: literally calling it the thing that it is the best

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Speaker 3: book ever written about cricket is like a damning insult

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Speaker 3: to how good the actual book is. Molly is like

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Speaker 3: probably the world's best crypto journalist and writes the newsletter

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Speaker 3: citation needed also does web three is going great, which

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Speaker 3: is amazing. Everyone should go listen to it, and Molly,

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Speaker 3: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. What an intro.

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Speaker 3: I've been waiting for an opportunity to use that one

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Speaker 3: for such a long time. A great book, by the way,

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Speaker 3: which everyone should both go subscribe to citation needed and

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Speaker 3: also go read Beyond the Boundary because it's great. So God,

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Speaker 3: we were talking about this before the show. I had

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Speaker 3: planned this episode out before Elon Musk showed up at

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Speaker 3: Sea Pac with Javier Malay like with me Malay's signature chainsaw,

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Speaker 3: doing an even weirder version of Malays thinking about like

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Speaker 3: cutting regulation with a chainsaw. But Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, what a spectacle that was.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I like Steve Bannon doing the Nazi salute.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't even the weirdest thing that happened there that was

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Speaker 3: only like day one.

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Speaker 6: Well that's overdone now you know everyone's doing it. You

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Speaker 6: have to do something new.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to get to wander around the stage

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Speaker 3: with a chainsaw like he didn't even do the Malay thing,

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Speaker 3: which is you have you have like a book of

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Speaker 3: regulations or whatever, you cut it with a chainsaws. Oh god.

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Speaker 3: So I am very excited to talk about the crypto

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Speaker 3: scandal that might finally bring this administration down. However, and

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Speaker 3: I am deeply sorry. I already I apologized before this

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Speaker 3: recording started. I am deeply sorry. In order to explain

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Speaker 3: who Hoavier Malay is, I have to do the single

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Speaker 3: most difficult thing I've ever attend in my like not

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Speaker 3: just in my like my history as a podcast, like

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Speaker 3: that's obviously trivially true, like by my entire history doing

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Speaker 3: theoretical work in general, which is I'm about to attempt

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Speaker 3: to explain paronism in under ten minutes on four hours

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Speaker 3: of sleep.

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Speaker 5: Let's say it.

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Speaker 3: Here, we fucking go because because to guess, that's why

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Speaker 3: you know, why we have to do this, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: Malay is able to take power like basically because he

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Speaker 3: he's like one of the first candidates in a long

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Speaker 3: time to in Argentina to run as an anti Paronist.

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Speaker 3: And that may seem weird because hold on, wait, shouldn't

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Speaker 3: there always be like, okay, if you have an ideology,

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Speaker 3: shouldn't it shouldn't that the person from like either the

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Speaker 3: left right side of the political spectrum, you know, be

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Speaker 3: running against an ideology and no, no, up until basically now,

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Speaker 3: both the left and the right in Georgina we're both paronists.

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Speaker 3: So to get an understanding of what paranism is, we

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Speaker 3: need to go back not just to who who I'm

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Speaker 3: parone is, and we'll we'll we'll get to Hujuan Peron,

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Speaker 3: who's like the guy this ideology is named after, and

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Speaker 3: you know, the ideology is based on like this guy

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Speaker 3: returning from exile from the military coups. But we have

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Speaker 3: to go back to one of the sort of foundational

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Speaker 3: parts of the modern Argentinian state, and that element is

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Speaker 3: the fact that Argentina has one of the most militant

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Speaker 3: workers movements in the entire world and has had it

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Speaker 3: for about a century. I was on Margaret's show, it

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Speaker 3: could happen here, and Jesus Christ not it could happen here.

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Speaker 3: Good Lord, you tell them on.

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Speaker 5: Four US you're doing great, Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I haven't even gotten we have not gotten to my

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Speaker 3: final analysis of Peronism, where that the closest thing I

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Speaker 3: can compare it to is post short cultural revolutions nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventies era China. So this is about to get so

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Speaker 3: much more unhitched. But a while back I was on

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Speaker 3: Margaret Show Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff to talk

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Speaker 3: about the second Argentinian giant and arcosyndy closed uprising in

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Speaker 3: about a span of four years, which was the giant

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Speaker 3: anarchist rebellion in Patagonia in nineteen twenty one nineteen twenty two.

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Speaker 3: And this is the second one because the first one

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Speaker 3: was the nineteen nineteen general strike, which ends in an

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Speaker 3: event called the Tragic Week where everyone sort of gets

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Speaker 3: killed by the military. But you know, the fact that

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Speaker 3: there's there's two in different parts of the country, enormous

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Speaker 3: and arcosndicalist uprisings in a span of about four years

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Speaker 3: is a demonstration of the fact that this is one

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Speaker 3: of the most billetant working classes in the world, and

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Speaker 3: any political movement that is trying to hold power in

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Speaker 3: this country is going to have to deal with the

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Speaker 3: fact that the Argentinian working class at any moment. Can

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're a factory owner, you can wake

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Speaker 3: up one day and there's a black flag flying over

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Speaker 3: your factories because your workers have seized it. And the

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Speaker 3: sort of culmination of this, and the reason this is

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Speaker 3: even still relevant today is that like the last of

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Speaker 3: what you would I guess you could call like the

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Speaker 3: classical twentieth century revolutions. So a line of uprising started

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Speaker 3: with like the original formation of the workers' councils in

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Speaker 3: Russia in nineteen oh five, you know, and that continues

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Speaker 3: to do like the occupations of factories and Itallly you

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Speaker 3: the two Red Years, and like nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen,

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Speaker 3: like the anarchist parts of the Spanish Revolution, with the

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Speaker 3: revolutions in Hungaria and Algeria, like you know, all like

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Speaker 3: through sixty eight, like the factor occupations in France and Italy,

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Speaker 3: and like all this whole, this whole lineage of like

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Speaker 3: the thing that happens when you do you revolution, as

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Speaker 3: workers occupy the factories and try to seize control of

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Speaker 3: the country. The last one of those ever was in Argentina.

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Speaker 3: In two thousand and one, like everywhere else in the world,

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Speaker 3: this ship was gone, and then randomly in Argentina in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and one, like there's a there's a giant

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Speaker 3: one of these uprisings that is, you know, only really

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Speaker 3: put down by a sort of left Corona's government agreeing

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Speaker 3: to like tell I am have to fuck off, which

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Speaker 3: was like, you know, a sort of seismic change in

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Speaker 3: the political landscape. But all of this is to say that, Okay,

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Speaker 3: if you were a capitalist in Argentina and you have

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Speaker 3: to deal with this, like what what do you do?

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Speaker 3: And the answer is to create the most unhinged ideology

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Speaker 3: the world has ever seen by uniting socialism and fascism

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Speaker 3: under the sea batter of Argentinian nationalists class collaboration, which

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Speaker 3: the thing that makes no sense, but you have to understand,

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Speaker 3: like paroism is, oh god, protoism is simply the weirdest

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Speaker 3: ideology ever. I promise we're going to get to the

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Speaker 3: fun crypto stuff, but we have to, unfortunately do this,

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Speaker 3: We have to do our whole work first, and part

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Speaker 3: of this is so Juan Perone, the actual guy who

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Speaker 3: who is ideologies based off is an enormously popular president

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Speaker 3: in like the late forties and fifties until he gets

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Speaker 3: overthrown by military coup and to get a sense of

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Speaker 3: again like how weird this guy is. Like, this is

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Speaker 3: a guy who when he comes into power a bunch

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Speaker 3: of the most famous Nazi war criminals and like not

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Speaker 3: just you know, obviously like like the famous Nazis fleet Argentina.

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Speaker 3: This is the whole meme about that, right, But I

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Speaker 3: mean we're talking about guys who do u stat si

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Speaker 3: like guys guys who literally did the Holocaust by hand,

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Speaker 3: like flee to Argentina and Drena's administration, and when a

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Speaker 3: military coup overthrows him, they flee the country. So again,

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Speaker 3: like the US back military junta is less pro Nazi

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Speaker 3: than this guy is. He is also personal friends with

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Speaker 3: Chae Guavara and consider like the Cuban Revolution to be

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Speaker 3: like part of his like revolutionary project. So a deeply

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Speaker 3: deeply weird, deeply weird guy. And the result of this

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Speaker 3: is that, Okay, so you have a military dictatorship through

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Speaker 3: like the fifties and the sixties, right, and like the

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Speaker 3: entire time there's a tatorship, not the entire night, but

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Speaker 3: most of the time this atatorship is happening, right, the

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Speaker 3: entire political spectrum sort of projects all of their political

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Speaker 3: energy onto we want Parone back, because Parona is remembered

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Speaker 3: as like the guy who like brought workers rights to

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Speaker 3: the country and also like gave women the right to vote,

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Speaker 3: and also as you remember it as like a stable

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Speaker 3: nationalist right wing government by the rights like everyone on

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Speaker 3: like both sides the political spectrum project all of their

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Speaker 3: political aspirations into the single figure of Perome, which works

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Speaker 3: because he's not in the country, is not not there,

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Speaker 3: so you know, and because he's gone, you can project

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Speaker 3: anything you want onto him. And this is to a

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Speaker 3: large extent the origin of modern populism, right, like the

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Speaker 3: you know, modern populism is the projection of all grievances

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Speaker 3: onto one guy and then having that come in take

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Speaker 3: power do constant sort of semi political mobilization to like

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Speaker 3: fix your issues. And one of the interesting threads here

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Speaker 3: is that like the theoretical origin of left populism is

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Speaker 3: very specifically Paronism, because one of the theoreticians of like

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Speaker 3: modern left populism, one of the most famous ones, is

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Speaker 3: my old nemesis, the Argentinian political philosopher and NESTL. Leclough

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Speaker 3: and his wife Chantill Moffe, who were like they were like,

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Speaker 3: you know, these are these people were like the the

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Speaker 3: theoretical forces behind a bunch of like the European left

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Speaker 3: in this sort of euro Communism era and even up

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Speaker 3: until like like pot Daemos in Spain twenty eleven, like

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Speaker 3: these are the people who are the theoretical force behind

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Speaker 3: so much like left electoral stuff in the last like

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Speaker 3: fifty years. And it's all from Leclough, who was a

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Speaker 3: left paronist. So all of all the dots are going

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Speaker 3: on the pin board and while he's gone, he's this

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Speaker 3: guy that like from an American perspective, it's like imagine

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Speaker 3: that like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump from twenty sixteen

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Speaker 3: were both the same guy, and both sides were just

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Speaker 3: trying to get this one guy to come back to

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Speaker 3: Argentina like fix everything. So this creates like the left

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Speaker 3: and right paronists. And when parn comes back in the

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Speaker 3: seventies and like immediately gets elected president again, the right

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Speaker 3: Paronis just I mean you literally starts slaughtering to left

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Speaker 3: Paronis in the streets, and Parne like backs the right

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Speaker 3: Paronists against the left, and you would think this would

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Speaker 3: destroy left Paranism, but no, no, Left Paronism was in

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Speaker 3: power in Argentina until like Malai's election like a few

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Speaker 3: years ago. It's so okay, So like why would you

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Speaker 3: still be a left Paronis after Parone like had all

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Speaker 3: your boys machine guns in the seventies. Part of the

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Speaker 3: reason this works also is that he dies and his

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Speaker 3: wife takes power and there's like another military coup, so

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Speaker 3: you know, he's not like in power long enough kind

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Speaker 3: of for like the disenchantment to really set in. He's

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Speaker 3: just he's in power just long enough for people to

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Speaker 3: remember it as like the break between the dictatorships. And

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Speaker 3: at this point I could finally attempt to go what's Paronism?

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Speaker 3: They're like how many minutes of like, oh god, I

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Speaker 3: think I've got over my limit of what is But okay,

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Speaker 3: Paron's deal is this right?

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Speaker 7: Like so okay?

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Speaker 3: Like if you're a pronus, right, and in Perona's state,

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Speaker 3: everyone is supposed to be equal before the power of

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Speaker 3: the Argentinian state, And so if you're a leftist, you

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Speaker 3: focus on the everyone is going to be equal part,

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Speaker 3: and this means on the one hand, you know, there

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Speaker 3: are there are real substantive gains for the Argentinian working

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Speaker 3: class that they didn't get under the you know, the

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Speaker 3: sort of previous administrations. And under the junta, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: you have like massive expansions of workers' rights and nationalizations

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Speaker 3: of a bunch of sectors of the economy. You have

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Speaker 3: this like strategy of national development through like import substitution.

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Speaker 3: There's there's like a long strain of like feminist paranism

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Speaker 3: from you know his like like him being the administration

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Speaker 3: where women got the right to vote. On the other hand,

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Speaker 3: if you're a fascist, you focus on the like before

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Speaker 3: the power of the Argentinian state part which means like

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Speaker 3: permanent class collaboration. And this this is the part of

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Speaker 3: the deal that brings the right in is like the

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Speaker 3: deal is that, okay, so you give the workers all

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Speaker 3: of this stuff, and you set up these really complicated

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Speaker 3: patriots networks, and you know, people have jobs and like

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Speaker 3: they have a social safety that at least in theory,

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Speaker 3: and the trade off is you will never ever again

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Speaker 3: attempt to like occupy a factory or and like drive

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Speaker 3: these parasites. You run your entire life out of power.

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Speaker 3: And the second part of that is this like this hardline,

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Speaker 3: unhinged right wing like Argentinian nationalism, which is wielded against

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Speaker 3: for example, like Argentinian indigenous groups. And so I promise

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Speaker 3: the comparison to the to the Long Culture seventies Long

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Speaker 3: Culture Revolution. We've reached that point of it, so to

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Speaker 3: understand like really what this is, right, It's an active

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Speaker 3: counterinsurgency that is sort of that is waged by the

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Speaker 3: state and waged by a bunch of like parts of

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Speaker 3: the social sector to unfold this really dynamic and miilitant

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Speaker 3: workers movement into the state in such a way that

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Speaker 3: there can still be politics kind of but it won't

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Speaker 3: actually be a threat to the ruling class. And my,

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Speaker 3: my sort of like closest thing to this is this

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Speaker 3: very very weird period in Chinese history between like the

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Speaker 3: end of the Short Culture Revolution in like nineteen sixty

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Speaker 3: nine and the death of Mao in seventy six, where

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Speaker 3: like the most unhinged parts of the Culture Revolution are

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Speaker 3: sort of over because Mao has set off, you know,

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Speaker 3: so nineteen sixty seven, like Mao sets off this uprising

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Speaker 3: in Shanghai. He does this deliberately as part of his

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Speaker 3: strategy to game power of the party. The problem is

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Speaker 3: that control of Shanghai is no longer in the hands

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Speaker 3: of the Chinese Communist Party, like like the workers take

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Speaker 3: the city, and this is a disaster because they've all

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Speaker 3: been reading about the Paris Commune, and I think with

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Speaker 3: the Paris comunies that they had like direct elections of people.

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Speaker 3: And there's a moment I actually like I found this

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Speaker 3: this moment of this transcript where Mao is talking to

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Speaker 3: Joe and Lai, and Joe and Lai is like, if

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Speaker 3: we let these people do direct elections, like it's going

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Speaker 3: to lead to anarchism, and Mao is like, oh shit,

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Speaker 3: we have to stop this. So what happens is that

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Speaker 3: he wheels together this baffling coalition of like student Red

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Speaker 3: Guards and the sort of somebody some like loyal like

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Speaker 3: rebel workers factions, along with a bunch of like the

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Speaker 3: remaining party bureaucracy and the military, which is a coalition

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Speaker 3: comprised of everyone on every side of the Cultural revolution, right,

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Speaker 3: Like normally the Culture Revolution is broken down into very roughly,

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Speaker 3: there are rebel factions and there are like government factions, right,

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Speaker 3: and he's he's pulled together coalition of a bunch of

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Speaker 3: elements of both of them with the explicit thing of

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Speaker 3: we are going to end the revolution. And in the

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Speaker 3: short run, what this does is it leads to the

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Speaker 3: back half of the Culture Revolution that people don't talk

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Speaker 3: about very much, which is instead of like everyone dying

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Speaker 3: because there are rebels running around, everyone's dying because the

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Speaker 3: state is killing everyone to like bring everyone back under control.

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Speaker 3: And that's what most of the people die in the

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Speaker 3: Culture Revolution are killed, putting the whole thing down. If

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Speaker 3: one of trying to understand like what parenism is, right,

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Speaker 3: it's this ideology of bringing together all of the different

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Speaker 3: sort of disparate political factions in a moment. Right, You're

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Speaker 3: bringing together everyone from like the fascist on the right

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Speaker 3: to like the socialists on the left, and you're bringing

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Speaker 3: them into the banner of this one guy and the

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Speaker 3: same And the reason Malo was able to do this

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Speaker 3: is because, like he's Mao, right, every single like faction

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Speaker 3: on every side of the Culture Revolution, whatever they're trying

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Speaker 3: to do, is justifying it in the name of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is what Mao wants, This is what Parona is doing, right,

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Speaker 3: He's drawing together the entire political spectrum in a way

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Speaker 3: that he can sort of stabilize power, take it away

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Speaker 3: from like the junta, and forge this permanent political collition.

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Speaker 3: And this results in like like the sort of total

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Speaker 3: dominance that this ideology has a Roger tim politics means

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Speaker 3: that like basically every election in Argentina until like Malai

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Speaker 3: takes power is an election between the left and the

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Speaker 3: right paranists. And okay, okay, I'm so sorry. This finally

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Speaker 3: is the end divide attempt to explain Baronis. But we're

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Speaker 3: gonna go to ads when we come back. I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: actually do this interview that I've been promising. I am

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Speaker 3: so sorry. Okay, we are back. Thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for serve.

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Speaker 8: This.

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Speaker 3: This sort of brings us to like how he kind

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Speaker 3: of takes power and how you know, there's an economic crisis.

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Speaker 3: There's like all this inflation and so he comes in

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Speaker 3: on like I don't know, we were talking about this

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Speaker 3: beforehands and we're going to talk to you about this.

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Speaker 3: Like there's all these really weird parallels between this and

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Speaker 3: the American election, where it's like except the inflation in

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Speaker 3: Argentina is like real.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we just have this sort of like boogeyman version

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Speaker 6: of it. They actually have hyperinflation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we really checked the current inflation rate. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think, I mean it's like several hundred percent right now.

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Speaker 3: I think I think it's like three hundred something percent,

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Speaker 3: which is actually Lay's entire thing was that he was

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Speaker 3: going to stop inflation. It's actually it's way worse under

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Speaker 3: him than it was the previous like Parnas administration. Oh

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Speaker 3: there's one other thing I forgot about it, which is like,

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Speaker 3: you know, why if you're on the left, would you

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Speaker 3: take this deal? And this also ties into like how

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Speaker 3: this politics?

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Speaker 9: How is politics?

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Speaker 3: I took over the state, which is that like you know,

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Speaker 3: there were people in Argentina like under these Prona's governments

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Speaker 3: got things that are like unimaginable here, Like there's one

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Speaker 3: that's important to me. And like obviously like it's still

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Speaker 3: you're still living under capitalism. A lot of it still sucks.

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Speaker 3: But like one of the things that people won under

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Speaker 3: these governments was this mandate that one percent of all

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Speaker 3: government employees had to be trans which is like unimaginable here,

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Speaker 3: like like like even at the height of like you

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Speaker 3: know like sort of transacceptance or whatever. Like that's there's

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Speaker 3: what like that's that's not that's not a thing. That's

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Speaker 3: even like no one even like thinks to ask about that,

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Speaker 3: and like yeah, like I don't know, like yeah, like

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Speaker 3: I might sell my soul to Juan Perona if it

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Speaker 3: meant that, like none of my trans friends ever had

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Speaker 3: to sleep in an alley. Again, like I you know,

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Speaker 3: but the wheels fall off of this and they put

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Speaker 3: the self described and narcro capitalists in power, which is

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Speaker 3: this is great and oh god, okay, and this finally

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Speaker 3: gets a the fun part of this. I said the

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Speaker 3: top of this episode that like he did a meme coin, right,

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Speaker 3: can you explain what that is? Because oh god, yeah.

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Speaker 6: So meme coins are a particularly weird part of the

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Speaker 6: cryptocurrency world where they basically go out and say that

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Speaker 6: this is a token that has no inherent value, which

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Speaker 6: I mean, you know, skeptics would argue that that's true

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Speaker 6: of all cryptocurrency, but but meme coins very actively embrace

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Speaker 6: that fact, and they're often themed around a meme. So,

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Speaker 6: you know, a lot of people know of dogecoin, which

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Speaker 6: is themed about the you know, around the she but

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Speaker 6: you new dog. They're also sometimes just themed around sort

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Speaker 6: of an idea or a person or you know, just

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Speaker 6: sort of whatever is capturing the public attention at any

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Speaker 6: given moment. And the idea is that you buy in,

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Speaker 6: and all of the attention causes more people to buy in,

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Speaker 6: and if you're really good at it or really lucky,

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Speaker 6: you're one of the first people to buy in, and

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Speaker 6: so you buy in at a low price and then

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Speaker 6: you sell after everyone else has bought in and pumped

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Speaker 6: the price. Hire that's the idea. In reality, it doesn't

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Speaker 6: really work that way. It's full of insider trading and

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Speaker 6: market manipulation, and it's not sort of a fair game

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Speaker 6: where anyone has a chance to be one of those

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Speaker 6: early people. But that's sort of the shape of it

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Speaker 6: at least. And so I guess that brings us to Libra,

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Speaker 6: which is the name coin that.

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Speaker 5: Mila was convinced I guess to endorse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think this is interesting thing here too,

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Speaker 3: where it's like our government is just like a fucking

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Speaker 3: meme coin. Now, Like the thing that is it ConTroll

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Speaker 3: of the American state is Doge, the barber of government efficiency,

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Speaker 3: which is just the Doge coin meme.

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Speaker 6: Like, yeah, we're in sort of a post ironic world

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Speaker 6: at this point where crypto and the US government are

397
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Speaker 6: somehow completely intertwined. And I guess we should probably mention

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Speaker 6: that just before Trump took office, he launched his own

399
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Speaker 6: meme coin, which was the Trump Token, followed very shortly

400
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Speaker 6: after by his wife launching the Malania And they did

401
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Speaker 6: what all good meme coins do, which is that they

402
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Speaker 6: spiked in price based on the original interest, and then

403
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Speaker 6: they lost everyone a bunch of money once the price

404
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Speaker 6: came back down, because with meme coins, people lose interest

405
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Speaker 6: and move on to the next one. And you know,

406
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Speaker 6: the Trump token shockingly does not have enduring value.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, like and that's just interesting thing about it,

408
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 3: which is like, Okay, this is just a pump them

409
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Speaker 3: dump scheme. Yes, Like, it's just securities fraud. Like I

410
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Speaker 3: we have an entire economy based on security. Everyone doing

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Speaker 3: securities fraud, and everyone knows that securities fraud. I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's really cynical.

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Speaker 6: Like if you actually talk to people who are deep

414
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Speaker 6: into meme coins, either creating them or trading them, there's

415
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Speaker 6: this broad acceptance that like, oh yeah, yeah, it's totally

416
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Speaker 6: a scam. People are trying to run off with the

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Speaker 6: money after they launched these tokens, Like there's all of

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Speaker 6: this mark manipulation happening average everyday people, who are you know,

419
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Speaker 6: seeing these stories about people buying in super early and

420
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Speaker 6: then making a million dollars out of thin air like

421
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Speaker 6: that never happens. Those aren't average people. Those are like

422
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Speaker 6: deeply sophisticated trading bots or people with insider knowledge. Like

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Speaker 6: everyone knows this and openly discusses it, and yet there's

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Speaker 6: still this active participation in it because the idea is

425
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Speaker 6: that like, Okay, sure it's a scam, but if you

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Speaker 6: get in on the scam early enough, you can be

427
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Speaker 6: the scammer and you can be the one who profits

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Speaker 6: and you know, screw everybody else. So it's like this

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Speaker 6: really deeply rotten, like cynical world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember you talked about this on Jamie's show

431
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Speaker 3: about like how just deeply nihilistic it all is. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I think you know, I mean, it's not even

433
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: it used to be. You had to do metaphors to

434
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: draw a direct line between this sort of like the

435
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 3: nihilism of this shit and like the nihilism of putting

436
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: like the lie or like putting Trump and Elon like

437
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: in office. But now it's just I mean, they just

438
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: do the meme coin right, like there's no Yeah, the

439
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 3: mask is.

440
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 6: Like fully off of crypto in the memechoin era. I think, like, yeah,

441
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 6: it's kind of amazing. How during the previous crypto boom

442
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 6: in like twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, there was

443
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 6: this phrase that everyone was saying, which was wag me,

444
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 6: which was like we're all going to make it, and

445
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 6: the idea was like we're all going to get rich together,

446
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 6: everyone's gonna succeed. And now it's like they've totally like

447
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,239
Speaker 6: you never hear that anymore. And now it's like, oh,

448
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 6: I will punch you in the face and steal your

449
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 6: wallet if I get the moment opportunity, and that is

450
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 6: like broadly accepted throughout the crypto world.

451
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and like that that is also like

452
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 3: what Malai has been doing to like everyone in Argentina

453
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: right like his his thing came in is he I mean,

454
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: I got one of the things I remember from like

455
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 3: the very first days he was in offices, he was

456
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 3: talking about all this stuff about how they were going

457
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 3: to take away will for benefits from anyone who was

458
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 3: arrested at protest. Yeah, and like that didn't start. There's

459
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: been massive protests like basically since the moment he took power.

460
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 3: But you know, like it's just this really deeply cynical,

461
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 3: very explicit thing of like pitting like everyone in society

462
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 3: against each other. Like you know, like making this argument

463
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: too is like a crime thic article about this word.

464
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: It's like they, you know, like he's very explicitly making

465
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: this argument. They're like, well, Okay, if you're like a

466
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 3: private sector worker and you're making no money, the reason

467
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 3: you're making no money is because wages are too high.

468
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: In the public sector, it's because taxes are too high,

469
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 3: and if taxes and corporations were lower, they would pay

470
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 3: you more. It's like, yeah, no, but if it fits

471
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 3: into this sort of like pure nihilism of like, yeah,

472
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: everyone trying to grift each other, and it's i.

473
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 6: Mean, it's really recognizable here in the United States too,

474
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 6: where it's the same story of like, oh, you're not

475
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 6: making enough money because you know, people are stealing your

476
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 6: tax money and it's going to you know, people who

477
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 6: don't deserve it, or it's going to these programs to

478
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 6: fund foreign aid instead of people in the United States

479
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 6: or you know, it's like very much trying to pit

480
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 6: everyone against one another so that you don't notice that

481
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 6: the person who's actually taking the money is the guy

482
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 6: who launched the meme coin or the people who have

483
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 6: the insider information.

484
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 10: You know.

485
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 6: It's like this very direct mirror of what is happening

486
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 6: in society, and yet it's like so obvious.

487
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 3: The problem that we have is like I think people

488
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: do probably recognize that, like everyone who is rich got

489
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: rich by fucking robbing people. But instead of trying to

490
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: do anything about that, the solution that's being positive by

491
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: these people is like, well, instead of you just being

492
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: scammed all the time, like you could be the scam artist.

493
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 5: You could be the robbery. Yeah, Like that's.

494
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: Like the new scam instead of like, you know, because

495
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 3: like organizing is fucking hard, right, and like attempting to

496
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 3: fight these people is really hard. They have all the money,

497
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: they have all the power, they have the police, they

498
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: have the military, and so you get like this shit

499
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: on the other hand, sometimes in backfires because these people

500
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 3: like are like all in enough on this fucking meme

501
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 3: cooin shit to like run it. So yeah, let's let's

502
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: talk about this specific mean coin Libra. Yeah.

503
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 6: So it's kind of a weird example of a meme coin,

504
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 6: because you know, most meme coins, the idea is like

505
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 6: this has no intrinsic value, this has no purpose. You

506
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 6: just gamble on the token price and hope for the best.

507
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 6: Libra was ostensibly supposed to actually have some sort of

508
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 6: point to it, making it much unlike most of the

509
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 6: meme coins, but it was still you know, basically a

510
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 6: meme coin under the hood. But the idea was that like,

511
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 6: somehow some of the profits from this Libra token we're

512
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 6: going to be put towards supporting Argentine entrepreneurs or something

513
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 6: like that. There was this sort of like social benefit

514
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 6: side to it, where which was all very vague and

515
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 6: like they're very little detail, like you know, you never

516
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 6: really know what these things what is actually supposed to happen.

517
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 6: But that was the story, is that like this is

518
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 6: going to support Argentine entrepreneurs and it's going to funnel

519
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 6: money to their projects and all this.

520
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 3: It almost feels like an older kind of scam, Like

521
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 3: it reminds me of like an NFT scam. We're like, yeah,

522
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: they'll they'll be like ah, so we're in the future

523
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 3: we're going to make a game and you're all going

524
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: to put it. It's like that thing, but they brought

525
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: it back for one last ride.

526
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 4: Right.

527
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 6: It's like the historical, like twenty twenty era crypto scam

528
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 6: where it was like, look, we have this beautiful roadmap

529
00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 6: of all these things we're going to do, and we're

530
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 6: going to give you gifts and rewards. And then it's

531
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 6: like okay, but how is it going to work? And

532
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 6: they're like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll tell you later.

533
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 6: Just give us your money now. And that was kind

534
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 6: of the idea with the libri coin. But basically the

535
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 6: team behind it had some folks who were involved in

536
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 6: something called tech Forum Argentina, which was like a group

537
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 6: of tech entrepreneurs with this sort of like blockchain angle

538
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 6: to it, who had access to Malay via this sort

539
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 6: of project that was happening in Argentina where you could

540
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 6: like pay to come to this conference and Malay was

541
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 6: going to be there and all this, and so they

542
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 6: joined forces with some meme coin guys who had a

543
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 6: lot of experience launching other meme coin projects, including the

544
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 6: Malania token, including the Enron token, which was literally launched

545
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 6: by someone who purchased the trademark rights to the Enron company.

546
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: I forgot about that.

547
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, that came back.

548
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 6: To haunt us, and so they all joined forces and

549
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 6: launched this meme coin, and they were able to get

550
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 6: President Mila to promote the meme coin on his Twitter

551
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 6: account by saying like, here's this Libra project. It's going

552
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 6: to support Argentinine entrepreneurs. Here's the contract address. Buy in,

553
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 6: And so everyone got super excited because a president had

554
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 6: just endorsed a meme coin, and he unfortunately was too

555
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 6: slow to be the first president to do such a thing,

556
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 6: with Trump beating him to that particular record.

557
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 3: But actually, I actually can't believe I blankey on his name,

558
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 3: the guy Nol Salvador hadn't pulled one yet. Oh yeah, Bukeley,

559
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: I'm like stunned he hadn't done it yet.

560
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's probably because he's a real bitcoiner and bitcoin

561
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 6: maximalists are not a huge fan of any other cryptocurrencies.

562
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 5: That would be my guess. But yeah, it is a

563
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 5: little surprising. Yeah.

564
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 11: Oh.

565
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: Also, okay, there's another run hinged angle here which I

566
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 3: want to briefly mention because it's extremely funny. One of

567
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: my good friends, Julie point to bt which is part

568
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: of the thing that's like originally, originally maybe you want

569
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: to do this is that So one of the people

570
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: who was like involved in like this hookup process with

571
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 3: like the crypto people was this guy named Augustine Lahay

572
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: who's like this very very famous conservative writer and he's

573
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: the guy who like introduced the concept of gender ideology

574
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: to Argentina. So he's like one of and one of

575
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 3: what lays like big things is like being a turf

576
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 3: all the time, right, And the guy who like got

577
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: all of these people into turf shit is like the

578
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 3: guy who introduced him to this fucking crypto scamp, and

579
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 3: he might have to sell him out in order to

580
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 3: get out of the cryptoscamp bullshit, which is just oh god,

581
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: trans people getting our revenge.

582
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: You love to see it.

583
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: Speaking of crypto scams, we should take one more ad

584
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 3: break before we get into all of the rest of

585
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: this bullshit. We are back to the main story of

586
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: the really unprecedented access is a ministration has given the

587
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: crypto people. Can you talk a bit about like who

588
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: the like who the people involved in this are, because

589
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: it's a lot of like very very large like players

590
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: in this world.

591
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, I mean it's still sort of coming out

592
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 6: like who exactly was involved and to what degree they

593
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 6: were involved, but it's really starting to look like the

594
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 6: creation of this meme coin was spearheaded by a bunch

595
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 6: of guys at a group called Kelsey or Ventures that

596
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 6: has been involved in, like I said, launching a bunch

597
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 6: of these tokens, and that's sort of a family run operation.

598
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 6: There's a guy named doctor Tom and then his two sons,

599
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 6: Hayden and Gideon.

600
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 12: I believe that lady named Kitty Jesus Rice like oh no,

601
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 12: making these guys in a lab, and you know they're

602
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 12: they're kind of young guys, like Hayden is like twenty

603
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 12: eight or something like that, which is you know, typical

604
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 12: for the crypto world, I guess.

605
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 6: But yeah, and so Hayden Davis is the mastermind behind

606
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 6: much of the launch, but they're working very closely with

607
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 6: a bunch of other people in the crypto world. And

608
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 6: that's something that they sort of have to do with

609
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 6: these big, splashy token launches, you know, the Trump token.

610
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 6: I had to do this as well, where you can't

611
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 6: just show up as like a president and launch a

612
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 6: meme coin and expect everything will just work, because when

613
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 6: that many people all try to buy a token at once,

614
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 6: you know, you need someone on the other end to

615
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 6: actually be selling the tokens. And you know, there's all

616
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 6: of this infrastructure behind it that goes into these launches,

617
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 6: and so you need people to do the market making,

618
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 6: and there's the liquidity providers, and there's all these you know,

619
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 6: projects under the hood that are that are involved. And

620
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 6: it's beginning to look like a lot of those people

621
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 6: were deeply involved in these token launches in ways that

622
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 6: was perhaps not entirely proper. Yeah, I know, propriety around

623
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 6: mem coin launches is maybe a lot to expect, but

624
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 6: you know, we're there's sort of talks out how one

625
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 6: of the co founders of a project called Mediora, which

626
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 6: is one of these huge liquidity platforms and also a

627
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 6: place where people are actually buying these tokens, can.

628
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: You explain like what a liquidity platform is for listeners.

629
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

630
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's it's basically sort of what I what

631
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 6: I suggested, which is that like if you go out

632
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 6: and launch a token and you don't do any prep

633
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 6: when someone goes to buy that token there's or sell

634
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 6: that token there's there's no one on the other side

635
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 6: of that trade. You need some amount of liquidity in

636
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 6: the markets when you start off.

637
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're like, there have to be like there

638
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: have to be like actual tokens that you can sell

639
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: to people.

640
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 6: Just yeah, and if someone, you know, if someone buys

641
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 6: one of your tokens, they want to be able to

642
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 6: sell it to someone as well. And so you need

643
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 6: to be able to sort of absorb that kind of

644
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 6: trading without just assuming that, you know, out of thin air.

645
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 6: These people will exist on both sides of the trade,

646
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 6: and so there are these projects called liquidity providers where

647
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 6: you know, sometimes it's like big firms will provide liquidity

648
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 6: and they'll step in in that role, and that's sort

649
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 6: of the market maker end of things. Mediora is a

650
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 6: little bit unusual in that they do like decentralized liquidity provision,

651
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 6: which I'm not going to go into too much detail

652
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 6: about because it's very mind numbing.

653
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: But it's also so funny that like the terms that

654
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 3: have taken hold for these things like are financial terms,

655
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, it's like like this is not

656
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: liquidity in the sense of like does the US government

657
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: have cash on hand to pay something? This is like

658
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: are there these like stupid little weird program things to

659
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: like move other programs around.

660
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's not even.

661
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 6: Dollars, you know, we're not We're not talking about real

662
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 6: dollars here. We're talking about like people providing you one

663
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 6: fake token in exchange for another fake token. But I

664
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 6: think they very much intentionally use the traditional financial terms

665
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 6: to sort of lend a degree of legitimacy to it

666
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 6: and cover up the fact that, like, oh and if

667
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 6: you're a liquidity provider and you just like siphon all

668
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 6: the liquidity out of there, you've just made a ton

669
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 6: of money in a total scam. But it sounds legit

670
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 6: because it's a liquidity provider and it's something that exists

671
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 6: in like traditional finance. But yeah, so there's this Mediora

672
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 6: project where that liquidity operation all happens, and you know,

673
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 6: Mediora was deeply sort of involved in some of these

674
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 6: big token launches like trump token was starting out on Mediora.

675
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 6: Milania started out there, this Libra token started out there,

676
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 6: and now it seems like the co founder was like

677
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 6: very closely connected to this Hayden guy, He even supposedly

678
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 6: introduced the Milania team to Hayden Davis, the Kelcier guy.

679
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 6: Sounds like, you know, according to some of the allegations

680
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 6: out there, he was personally involved in a lot of

681
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 6: this early insider trading that I'm sure we'll get into

682
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 6: when it comes to Libratoken and why everything went so wrong.

683
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 6: And it seems like there is this sort of network

684
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 6: of people throughout this meme coin world who are running

685
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 6: these big platforms and who are making connections and all

686
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 6: of that, who are personally insider trading a lot of

687
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 6: these big token launches, so that when those people who

688
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 6: were buying it up early and making all this money,

689
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 6: it's like, oh, yeah, that's the guy who runs Metiora.

690
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 6: This happens so much in the crypto world, and I

691
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 6: should stop being surprised every time it happens. But what

692
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 6: happened is when the co founder of Metiora stepped down,

693
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 6: the other co founder, who was like previously not really known,

694
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 6: stepped up and was like, hey, I'm the other co founder,

695
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 6: and he released this whole statement about how Ben Chow,

696
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 6: the co founder who stepped down, was, you know, he

697
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 6: thought he was totally innocent of all this and nothing

698
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 6: shady was happening at Metiora et cetera. The other co

699
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 6: founder who just like came out of the woodwork. He

700
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 6: runs Jupiter, which is the other it's like the ostensible

701
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 6: Metiora competitor. It's like, oh yeah, it's all just the

702
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 6: same people, you know, behind the scenes. And you know,

703
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 6: some of the insiders who were sort of whistleblowing on

704
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 6: this were saying, oh yeah, the Jupiter guys were all

705
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 6: insider trading too. The Metiora guys are insider trading, like

706
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 6: they're all trading against you. So it's really exposed a

707
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 6: lot of the rot in this sort of meme coin world,

708
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 6: in all of this infrastructure and the fact that like

709
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 6: oh yeah, yeah, when you're buying meme coins like you

710
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 6: are playing in a rigged casino, which has certainly not

711
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 6: done any favors to the meme coin reputation, but certainly

712
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 6: also to Malays as well.

713
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: Yes, well, let's let's get into like Malay's involvements in this.

714
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 3: Can you give you lamps to the timeline of this,

715
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: because it's so funny.

716
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a little wild, so unlike the Trump token,

717
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 6: Malay did not launch this token. He was not the

718
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 6: mastermind behind it. It's not clear how much he really

719
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 6: knew about the team behind it or what they were doing,

720
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 6: but he was certainly convinced to endorse this token and

721
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 6: you know, pump it up on Twitter and all of this.

722
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 6: And again, this is not an unusual thing for meme

723
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 6: coins to do. I mean, it's unusual for them to

724
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 6: find a president, but apparently not now, Like it was

725
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 6: true it was unusual for them to find a present.

726
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 6: But you know, there's this whole process with meme coins

727
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 6: where they try to find influential people to talk about

728
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 6: them to drive the interest in the token. And so

729
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 6: they will hire celebrities or people who are influential in

730
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 6: the crypto world or you know, anyone with some degree

731
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 6: of a platform to promote a token, and ostensibly they're

732
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 6: supposed to disclose that they are being paid.

733
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 5: To promote the token. They rarely do.

734
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is technically illegal, but like rarely rarely enforced

735
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 6: for for someone to promote a token without disclosure. One

736
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 6: of the very few cases where it was enforced was

737
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 6: against Kim Kardashian aivolts.

738
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, although that that SIT's all gone now.

739
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that was years ago before the SEC was

740
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 6: bought by the crypto companies and so yeah, and.

741
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: Like I mean they literally like I think, like yesterday

742
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 3: it was that this Yeah, was it yesterday as we're recording,

743
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 3: this recording is on Friday? Was it yesterday that the

744
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: the is it the SEC the SEC that dropped the

745
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 3: case sainst Coinbase.

746
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 5: SEC and that was today yeah, this morning to day.

747
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

748
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 13: Yeah.

749
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean we're seeing this everywhere.

750
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 6: But the SEC has paused a case against Binance, which

751
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 6: had involved allegations of actual fraud, not just the sort

752
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 6: of like minor securities law violation.

753
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 5: Fraud is also actually of the securities law violation.

754
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

755
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: Those those are all, by the way, a bunch of

756
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: like very very like like by Ins and like Coinbase,

757
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: like the biggest players in like the regular crypto market.

758
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, Finance is the biggest cryptocurrency exchange in the world.

759
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 6: Coinbase is the biggest cryptocurrency exchange in the United States.

760
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 6: Coinbase spent over seventy five million dollars on the most

761
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 6: recent political cycle in the US and now is reaping

762
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 6: the rewards by having the SEC case against them dropped.

763
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 6: So I would not expect much in the way of

764
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 6: SEC enforcement against crypto founders or companies. Yeah, especially given

765
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 6: that they have also installed crypto friendly people at the SEC.

766
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 6: At the CFTC. The CFTC nominee for chair is an

767
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 6: Andreson Horowitz, guy who is advising them on crypto policy.

768
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 6: Like it's totally rotten now.

769
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

770
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 3: Well, and also with the actual guy running the government

771
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: right now is Elon Musk, who is you know, like

772
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: what are their boys?

773
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the guy who's ostensibly running the project has

774
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 6: his own meme coin project, so I suspect he's not

775
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 6: going to be super keen on anyone enforcing laws against

776
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 6: meme cooin operations either.

777
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 14: Yeah.

778
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 3: Good god, it's such a mess.

779
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 15: Ye.

780
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 5: Back to Argentina before we get lost in despair.

781
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: Oh god.

782
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

783
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 6: So, so basically, you know, the coin launches, me lay,

784
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 6: you know, fires off a tweet about how this is

785
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 6: such a great meme coin, and you know, he he

786
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 6: gives the token address so you can all go buy it,

787
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 6: and then very early on it becomes clear that there

788
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 6: is some degree of insider trading happening. So, you know,

789
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 6: the beauty and the horror of crypto is that it's

790
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 6: all recorded on a public blockchain.

791
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 5: People can look.

792
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 6: At who is doing the early trades and these tokens,

793
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 6: and it fairly quickly becomes apparent that the wallets that

794
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 6: are that were involved in launching the token, and so

795
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 6: the ones that are being controlled by the people who

796
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 6: you know actually created this token and are promoting it,

797
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 6: are also involved in this early sniping of the token.

798
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 5: And sniping is when.

799
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 6: You use crypto trading bots, you know, like automated programs

800
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 6: to buy up the tokens very early on at low, low,

801
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 6: low prices, you know, earlier than any human could reasonably

802
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 6: be expected to go but hit the buy button.

803
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the thing that like fucking ticket scalpers do

804
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: or like, like the reason why you can't buy a

805
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: PS five is that all these trading bots get in

806
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: like immediately exactly.

807
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 6: It's one hundred percent analogous to that. But in the

808
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 6: case of these trading bots, you know, often they have

809
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 6: insider information, they have the contract address before it's public,

810
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 6: so that they can be like split stack and on

811
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,479
Speaker 6: it to buy these tokens early, and then they usually

812
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 6: dump them really early too. So you know, if if

813
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 6: Melea tweets about ameme coin. The price shoots up within

814
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 6: minutes of this thing launching, and within minutes these snipers

815
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 6: sell off and they make millions of dollars, often in profits.

816
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 6: And it is that selling that often causes the price

817
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 6: to crash right back down again, causing those average people

818
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 6: who thought that they were early to be the ones

819
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 6: basically subsidizing the folks who make.

820
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 5: Millions of dollars off these launches.

821
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 3: Like it's pupp a dump.

822
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 16: It's just literally just a puppe dump, Like it's just fraud,

823
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 16: Like I just right, I don't know, like I just

824
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 16: this is my my like old like twenty ten cents

825
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 16: of ethics emerging here, which apparently doesn't exist in the

826
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 16: sort of bold new world, is like nihilism, Like this

827
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 16: is just fraud.

828
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 6: Yeah no, And like people talk about, you know, we

829
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 6: need cryptoregulations, like you don't need any new regulations. Fraud

830
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 6: is still fraud, Like stealing from people is illegal. But

831
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 6: that's like a whole seperate point.

832
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: This entire thing. When everyone was doing this on Wall Street,

833
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 3: it like crashed the economy a bunch of times. We

834
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: were like, holy shit, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to

835
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 3: do this, But I don't know, capitalism is such that

836
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: you could just buy the governments and now all your

837
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: follow You're like, fraud schemes are legal, right if you

838
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 3: do it on the blackchain?

839
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 5: Crime is legal apparently.

840
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

841
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 6: But yeah, so you know there's this there's this really

842
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 6: early scandal where it's like, oh, you know, insiders are

843
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 6: trading this token. Everyone's calling it a rug pull because

844
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 6: that's like the cloak wheal term for when someone launches

845
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 6: a project and then steals all the money. And it

846
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 6: certainly looks like that's what's happening. And so Melay very

847
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 6: quickly distances himself from the project. He deletes the tweet

848
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 6: that he made and he sends out a new tweet saying, basically,

849
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 6: I didn't know anything about these guys. I don't really

850
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 6: know what their project is. I just thought it was this,

851
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 6: you know, cool thing that was gonna support Argentinian businesses.

852
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 6: I you know, I renounced all affiliation with it, basically.

853
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 6: And then he of course like blames his political opponents

854
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 6: for trying to weaponize this against him, and you know,

855
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 6: he goes very much shout swinging on people, being like,

856
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 6: I can't believe you're taking advantage of this scam to

857
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 6: come after my reputation.

858
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: Oh the pronus made me do it.

859
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah right, He's like, this is all your fault somehow.

860
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 6: So anyway, you know, that all happens, and it sort

861
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 6: of launches the project into chaos because the way that

862
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 6: the people on the inside are talking about it, and

863
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 6: huge grain of salt here, because you know, these are

864
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 6: people who are potentially admitting to their crimes.

865
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: Well it also like these are professional liars, like their

866
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: job is to lie to people for a living, like

867
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: it's and yeah.

868
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 6: And several of the things that they've said have already

869
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 6: been proven to be untrue. So like a huge, huge,

870
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 6: huge grain of salt here. But their story is that, oh,

871
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 6: we were sniping the token yes, but it's not bad

872
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 6: because we were doing it to try to protect people

873
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 6: from the other token snipers who show up on launches

874
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 6: like this, Like we didn't no.

875
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 17: No, you know what I said.

876
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 5: We had to do.

877
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 3: The scam to save you from the other people who

878
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 3: were trying to do the same scan.

879
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,439
Speaker 5: You're not even exaggerating. That's literally what they said.

880
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 3: That's so good.

881
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 6: And so they come up with this like hair brain

882
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 6: theory where they're like Okay, if we snipe the tokens early,

883
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 6: we can stop other token snipers from accumulating these huge

884
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 6: piles of the tokens and then dumping them and causing

885
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 6: the whole thing to crash. And so you know, they

886
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 6: will be limited to sniping smaller quantities that won't totally

887
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 6: wreck the whole you know, chart basically and cause.

888
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 5: It to go to zero.

889
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 6: And then we'll take our accumulated pile of tokens and

890
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 6: like slowly seed it back in to try to stabilize

891
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 6: the chart. I mean, it's like blatant manipulating market manipulation

892
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 6: that they're describing, like in defending themselves against allegations that

893
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 6: they're committing crimes, they're admitting to new crimes.

894
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 5: It's like this whole thing.

895
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 6: But that's the story is that they were like, we

896
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 6: have to do this to protect the chart. And the

897
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 6: idea was that, like Melay was going to make this

898
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 6: video promoting the token even more, and at that point

899
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 6: they were going to put all this money that they

900
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 6: had taken back into the project. But of course that

901
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 6: video never came because Meulay had already cut his losses

902
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 6: and was like, I don't want anything to do with this,

903
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 6: and so now the guys who launched this token are

904
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 6: sitting on like, ostensibly one hundred million dollars worth of tokens.

905
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 6: I use the word ostensibly because it's crypto and the

906
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 6: numbers aren't real, and you know, there's really not one

907
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 6: hundred million dollars.

908
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 5: Floating around in there.

909
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 14: Yeah.

910
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 6: People again people talk about how this is like a

911
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 6: four point five billion dollar crypto scam. There was never

912
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 6: four point five billion dollars in this. It's all fake money.

913
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 6: But like the it is true that there were people

914
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 6: who put real money into this. They got totally scammed,

915
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 6: basically taken for a ride because they thought that they

916
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 6: might be able to make money on it because the

917
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 6: President endorsed it, because they thought there was this, you know,

918
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 6: some legitimate scheme behind it to go to Argentinian businesses.

919
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 6: They lost their money and it all went to this

920
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 6: guy Hayden Williams, who is you know, connected to Mela,

921
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 6: who has some degree of influence with Malay, who claimed

922
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 6: in text messages.

923
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 5: That he controls Mela.

924
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah, but what use the N word

925
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 3: by the way, these two, yeah, like who these people are?

926
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 3: Like this is this is this is a white guy,

927
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: using the N word like Ica is like whiter than

928
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 3: I am, and using the N word to say that.

929
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 5: Not great.

930
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 6: He said in this text message that was leaked that

931
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 6: he was sending money to Mela's sister, who is very

932
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 6: influential and who sort of is Meala's right hand sister,

933
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 6: you know, sent money to her, and that as a

934
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 6: result of that, Melee will do anything that I want.

935
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 6: He'll say what I want, he'll tweet what I want,

936
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 6: He'll you know, he's my puppet basically. Of course, Mela

937
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 6: was very unhappy about this characterization, but it seems like

938
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 6: there's money trading hims behind the scenes, even though Mela

939
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 6: was not, you know, behind the token directly. And you know,

940
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 6: this has all resulted in somewhat of a political scandal

941
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 6: for Ula, which is both surprising that like, of all

942
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 6: things that could have caused a political scandal for Meula,

943
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 6: there are so many things to choose from, and this

944
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 6: is what it was. But you know, he's now facing

945
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 6: these these allegations that he was complicit in the fraud,

946
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 6: that he should be impeached. Even you know, there's some

947
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 6: rumblings among the opposition party about trying to start some

948
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 6: sort of impeachment proceedings against him, and it's all gone

949
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 6: very south, very quickly for him.

950
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 3: I think, God, it really would be so incredibly funny

951
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 3: if this is the thing that brings him down. I

952
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 3: don't know if it will. But also like I don't know,

953
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: this is one of these, like an even bigger way

954
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 3: than like the Trump plane crashes are like a political

955
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 3: fucking godsend, like handed down to the opposition, and the

956
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 3: Democrats aren't don't use it right because you know they're

957
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 3: the Democrats, right, instead of just like doing instead of

958
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 3: doing a thing I would do, which is starting literally

959
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 3: free speech with fucking no cops, no kings, no crashes.

960
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: They're like they're like, no atiuty. But like this is

961
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: like if you were like a Catholic opponent of this administration,

962
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 3: like this is like fucking God like reaching a giant

963
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: hand down and going, hey, have this thing to beat,

964
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 3: have this stick to beat over the head with.

965
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know, to their credit, I feel like

966
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 6: Argentinian politicians are taking better advantage of this than US

967
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 6: politicians have taken of their many opportunities because they are

968
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 6: calling for you know, impeachment. There have been you know,

969
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 6: many lawsuits filed against me Lee, and you know there

970
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 6: is a judge looking into his degree of connections here.

971
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 6: Obviously there is you know, some amount of corruption over

972
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 6: in the Argentinian government and so you know, the degree

973
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 6: to which they will adequately investigate themselves is somewhat.

974
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 3: Questionable, let's just say, yeah.

975
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 6: And you know, the likelihood of an impeachment proceeding actually

976
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 6: you know, getting the votes to go to trial is

977
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 6: certainly questionable. But this has been used, you know, in

978
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 6: a somewhat effective way to attack the credibility of Melee,

979
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 6: which is you.

980
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 5: Know, worth doing.

981
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 3: And you know, I say this about paranism, right like

982
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 3: the thing that the thing about Paronism is that it

983
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 3: it's like the engine that devours social movements, right like

984
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 3: anytime social movement comes in, the parnas sort of like

985
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 3: consume it from the inside. But the thing, the thing

986
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: about the way that like protos and functions is like, okay,

987
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 3: so they've they've eaten all these social movements, but it's

988
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 3: not quite like the US where you can just like

989
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 3: disband it and make it go away, like you actually

990
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 3: have to still have have the thing that social movement does.

991
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 3: And that means that these motherfuckers can throw a protest,

992
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 3: like whatever else is it about the paronas, like aren't

993
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: capable of putting an unbelievable number of people into the streets.

994
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 3: And I'm really interested to see what's going to happen

995
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: like this weekend and over the coming weeks, to see

996
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 3: if we see another seventeenth giant round of protests, like

997
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 3: also specifically about this.

998
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'll be curious too.

999
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 6: It's really interesting to me, like to what degree this

1000
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 6: resonates with three Day people, I guess in Argentina because

1001
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 6: you know, there's there's a lot to complain about with

1002
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 6: the MELA government, and so you know, it's sort of

1003
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 6: fascinating to me that people are latching onto this, and

1004
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 6: you know, it's sort of interesting just to compare with

1005
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 6: the United States, where there's a lot to complain about

1006
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 6: with the Trump administration, and you know, people were complaining

1007
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 6: about the meme coin, but by the time that was,

1008
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 6: you know, partly because it was pre inauguration and so

1009
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 6: Trump hadn't started signing all the executive orders and so

1010
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 6: it was very quickly overshadowed by the other sort of

1011
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 6: blatantly illegal things happening within the Trump administration, and so

1012
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 6: it didn't get that much traction in sort of the

1013
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 6: longer term. So it's interesting to me to watch this

1014
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 6: play out in a different country where you know, Milay

1015
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 6: has been in office for some time now, and you know,

1016
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 6: this has gained at least some degree of a foothold,

1017
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 6: and I'll be curious to see, you know, if that

1018
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 6: endures or not. He's he's sort of trying to play

1019
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 6: it off as like, you know, oh, everyone knows crypto

1020
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 6: is risky. He said something and he tried to do

1021
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 6: this like damage control interview on TV where he said

1022
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 6: that basically, like the people who bought this token knew

1023
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 6: they were playing Russian roulette and they got the bullet,

1024
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 6: which is a wild thing to say. Christ Yeah, that's

1025
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 6: just a nutty thing to say, but also very in

1026
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 6: character for him. And you know, he said something in

1027
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 6: then an interview to the effect of, like, you know,

1028
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 6: only a couple thousand people lost money, what's the chances

1029
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 6: that those people were even Argentinian, Like we shouldn't even

1030
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 6: care if they were, you know, not Argentinian. And so,

1031
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 6: you know, it's it's sort of interesting to watch him

1032
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 6: try to downplay this. It's like well, yeah, of course

1033
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 6: people lost money. It's a scam, you know.

1034
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 5: Like yeah, I guess.

1035
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: I think part of the reason this is like a

1036
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 3: real issue for him is that like he really truly

1037
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 3: you know, and this is something that like Trump is

1038
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 3: also doing this, like that he but he he like

1039
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 3: really truly went out to like his main base of supporters, yeah,

1040
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: and was like I'm just going to take you up

1041
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: behind a woodsend shoot you and like take the money

1042
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 3: out of your pocket. And like the way he's like

1043
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: systematically fucking all of the people who were supposed to

1044
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: be his political base, and like like Trump was also

1045
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: doing is but like people sort of like haven't set

1046
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: in that this is what's happening, whereas like this rug

1047
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 3: pull thing, it's like this is like the only thing

1048
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: that the fucking unhinge right when crypto wrote people care about,

1049
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 3: like this is like the one thing you could possibly

1050
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: do to like this the wall.

1051
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really interesting to see like what causes crypto

1052
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 6: people to turn on you, because it did happen in

1053
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 6: a much more limited way with Trump, where you know,

1054
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 6: the US crypto movement I guess that's not the right

1055
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 6: word for it, but the industry or the crypto world

1056
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 6: had really supported Trump very heavily, and you know, they

1057
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 6: had donated to him. But there was also this widespread

1058
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 6: belief among people who traded crypto that Trump was going

1059
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 6: to be good for crypto. He was going to cause

1060
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 6: crypto prices to go up, he was gonna to fix

1061
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 6: all these regulations that they thought were holding the industry

1062
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 6: back and all this stuff. And then when Trump came

1063
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 6: out and launched a meme coin, some of his most

1064
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 6: devoted fans among the crypto community were horrified by it,

1065
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 6: and they really responded in a way that I think

1066
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 6: a lot of people didn't expect, which is, like, I

1067
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 6: can't believe he's doing this grifty meme coin. He's supposed

1068
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 6: to believe in crypto, not just use it to steal

1069
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 6: money from his supporters, and so like, there was actually

1070
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 6: this degree of shock that very briefly rattled the crypto

1071
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 6: world in the US as well. And so I think

1072
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 6: that's you know, sort of interesting to see, is that like, Okay,

1073
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 6: you're allowed to do scams and you know, run your

1074
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 6: government in a way that personally benefits you, as long

1075
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 6: as it's not reflecting poorly on us, and it's not

1076
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 6: taking money from us. But as soon as it starts

1077
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 6: to make people, you know, look at scance at meme

1078
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 6: coins or the crypto world in general, or it starts

1079
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 6: to affect crypto prices, then things turn bad somewhat quickly.

1080
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder, I don't know. I'm interested in your

1081
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 3: take on this, Like how much of that is people

1082
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 3: who are in less meme coiny things who are worried

1083
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 3: about like their assets because they said at some point

1084
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 3: like have to be able to cash out.

1085
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 18: Yeah.

1086
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 6: I think that's a big part of it. Like there

1087
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 6: are factions in crypto where I sort of referred to

1088
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 6: this earlier when we were talking about Bichayley. But you know,

1089
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 6: there are bitcoiners who believe that bitcoin is the one

1090
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 6: true cryptocurrency and that everything else is a total scam,

1091
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 6: and so they are really upset when these meme coins

1092
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 6: come out because they feel like it reflects poorly on

1093
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 6: Bitcoin because people just sort of lump everything together. There's

1094
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 6: sort of a step down from that, which is people

1095
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 6: who think that there are more legitimate cryptocurrencies besides Bitcoin,

1096
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 6: but meme coins are not them. And so there's been

1097
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 6: all this talk recently where they're like, look at all

1098
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 6: these meme cooin scams that are getting in the news.

1099
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 6: You know that there was like the Hawktua meme coin

1100
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 6: that totally like yeah, stole a news cycle for a

1101
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 6: minute there, and they're terrified that, you know, people are

1102
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 6: starting to think of crypto as meme coins. You know,

1103
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 6: it's just one and the same. And they're like, people

1104
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 6: are not going to think of all these wonderful, legitimate

1105
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 6: cryptocurrencies and all of their use cases if they're thinking

1106
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 6: about hactua coin and how they ripped off a bunch

1107
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 6: of people, which like, personally, I think that the reputation

1108
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 6: is perhaps somewhat deserved, but you know, there is this

1109
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 6: belief among some people that like, oh, this is not

1110
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 6: real crypto and it's giving the rest of crypto a

1111
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 6: bad reputation. And we're actually starting to see talk of

1112
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 6: that in some of the higher places where you know,

1113
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 6: I've been seeing reporting that people are talking about the

1114
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 6: Hawktua coin on Capitol Hill, you know, like when they're

1115
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 6: talking about shredding regulations to prevent people from running securities frauds,

1116
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 6: the opposition is like, well, do we want haktua coin everywhere?

1117
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 5: Like is this really what we want?

1118
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 6: And so it is, you know, affecting the public perception

1119
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 6: and the perception in you know, Congress to some extent,

1120
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 6: which I think is what's really scary people, because they've

1121
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 6: just made these huge inroads with you know, all of

1122
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 6: these now crypto friendly politicians and friendly regulators, and now

1123
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 6: crypto is out here making a fool of itself right

1124
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 6: as you know, new legislation or regulation might be installed.

1125
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this gets me too. I think the thing

1126
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 3: I want to close on, which is, you know, like

1127
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 3: we actually did successfully as a society kill the NFT. Yeah,

1128
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 3: Like we took that all the fucker out back at

1129
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: staded to death.

1130
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 5: Yep.

1131
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 3: And I'm wondering whether you think that like this is

1132
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 3: this is a moment where we can like use this

1133
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: as a wedge thing to try to like fucking kill

1134
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 3: this entire industry. And how how vulnerable they are to

1135
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: like the negative pr rattlings from.

1136
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 4: All of this.

1137
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good point that,

1138
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 6: like the NFT, even as crypto has had a resurgence,

1139
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 6: you know, Bitcoin crossed one hundred thousand dollars, NFTs are

1140
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,240
Speaker 6: like nowhere to be found, you know, Like the NFT

1141
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 6: platforms are struggling there. A couple of them just went

1142
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 6: out of business, and I think it is largely thanks

1143
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 6: to the fact that NFTs became really cringe and you know,

1144
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 6: like everyone was like, oh, those stupid monkey pictures, and

1145
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 6: that had like a really devastating impact on this entire

1146
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 6: industry that was supposed to be like the future of

1147
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 6: art or whatever. And so I think there is that

1148
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 6: potential throughout other portions of the crypto world. I would

1149
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 6: not be shocked to see that happen to these memecoin platforms,

1150
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:25,479
Speaker 6: where they sort of lose their novelty value and people

1151
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 6: just see them as big scams and there's really no point.

1152
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 6: But unfortunately, I don't think that, you know, all of

1153
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 6: crypto can be undermined by the cringe factor or you know,

1154
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 6: the sort of societal distaste for it, because I mean,

1155
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 6: there are people who have bought bitcoin early, who have

1156
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 6: billions of dollars in crypto. In bitcoin, they are now

1157
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 6: working in the US government. You know, they have like

1158
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 6: very strong control over very powerful institutions, and so there

1159
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 6: is this countervailing force you keep crypto alive at basically

1160
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 6: any cost, and I think we're seeing them somewhat desperate

1161
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 6: to do that, as we're seeing calls for say a

1162
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 6: bitcoin strategic reserve, which is something that keeps coming up,

1163
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 6: the idea that like the US government should personally stockpile bitcoin,

1164
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 6: which you know, they make a couple of arguments as

1165
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 6: to why they should do that, which are not very

1166
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 6: convincing even to some of the people in the crypto world.

1167
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 6: But the sort of underlying thread through it is that

1168
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 6: if the US government holds a substantial amount of bitcoin,

1169
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 6: they won't be able to afford to let the bitcoin

1170
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 6: price collapse or to do anything that might threaten the

1171
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 6: cryptocurrency industry. And so I think that's why we're seeing

1172
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 6: the attempts to you know, sort of work crypto into

1173
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 6: government checkbooks, into the banking system, into traditional finance, you know,

1174
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 6: people trying to get bitcoin e ETFs into you know,

1175
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 6: your pension plans and your retirement funds and things like

1176
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 6: that is really to make it so oh endemic and

1177
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 6: so contagious. I guess to the rest of the financial

1178
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 6: world that it's almost like, you know, this this threat

1179
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 6: that they're holding against the government, which is like, all right,

1180
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 6: if you kill us, we'll kill you.

1181
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's this interesting thing of like, sorry,

1182
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 3: I know, I said we were going to close out,

1183
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 3: Like no, this is fun. There's this interesting way in

1184
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 3: which like this seems like the endgame for the entire

1185
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 3: like tech bubble economy is like you know, like none

1186
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 3: of these fucking companies have everybody able to make money, right,

1187
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 3: none of these fucking companies. But they all they all

1188
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 3: every like fucking like everything from like like fucking Uber

1189
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 3: to like fucking like Google and Amazon like hemorrhaged money.

1190
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 3: Uber will hemorrhage money until it eventually the bubble pops

1191
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 3: and it dies. Right, But like Amazon only really started

1192
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 3: making money, you know, Google was kind of making money,

1193
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 3: Like Amazon only started making money when they started getting

1194
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 3: government contracts for like their cloud computing shit. Yeah, and

1195
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 3: like that like looks like the endgame, Like you know,

1196
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: this is this is the thing with like Elon's like

1197
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 3: fucking electric armored vehicle content is like the only thing

1198
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 3: that can keep the bubble going is just pure standing intervention.

1199
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 3: But that also gives me a little bit of hope

1200
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: because I think the thing that's kept this giant bubble

1201
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 3: economy going for like over like a decade and a

1202
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 3: half now has been really really even under the original

1203
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: Trump administration, I mean, and the original administration kind of

1204
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 3: got bailed out by COVID to some extents, Like you know,

1205
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 3: I mean, like the the original Argentinian economic crisis was

1206
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 3: this there's this there's this huge wave of currency collapses

1207
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen where it was sort of contained, like

1208
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 3: the IMF did a bailout in while I was trying

1209
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 3: to do a bailout in Argentina, and it like it

1210
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 3: kind of got contained, but it set off a black

1211
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 3: wave uprisings. But like there's been this like really it's

1212
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 3: just taken this really careful financial management and like all

1213
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: of these like like like a trillion dollars of like

1214
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 3: overnight repo purchases like every day from the Treasury to

1215
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 3: like make sure there's enough liquidity in the banking industry

1216
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 3: to prevent like the kind of like two thousand and

1217
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 3: eight style collapses. And I think it it takes it's

1218
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 3: taken a really delicate hand, and you know, like I

1219
00:59:58,360 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 3: don't think it's a good thing. But on their hand,

1220
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 3: like these guys just fire the nuke police, like while

1221
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 3: they were moving a nuke, and I wonder if they

1222
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 3: can actually keep the dance going, or if they're just

1223
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 3: gonna if they're going to fuck up their bubble economy,

1224
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 3: just blow it all up, which might yeah, maybe nuke

1225
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 3: all of these people in the process.

1226
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 5: Maybe.

1227
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 6: I also think that, you know, if we're talking like accelerationism,

1228
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 6: I think that one of the most interesting things that

1229
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 6: we're going to be seeing now is that the crypto

1230
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 6: industry has long argued that they have all this potential.

1231
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 6: You know, they are just around the corner from reinventing

1232
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 6: the financial system to be wonderful and spectacular. And the

1233
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 6: only reason that they haven't you know, actually made true

1234
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 6: on that is because of those pesky regulators that are

1235
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 6: stopping them from doing all the stuff that they want.

1236
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 6: And so they've spent years now vilifying the regulators, claiming

1237
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 6: that the industry would be so wonderful if these regulators

1238
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 6: would just let them innovate. And now they've got the regulators,

1239
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 6: they're in a world where, you know, they basically own

1240
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 6: the regulation there, all of the enforcement cases against them

1241
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 6: are going to go away, you know, the friendliest possible

1242
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 6: regulations are going to be introduced. And now crypto doesn't

1243
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 6: have that excuse anymore, right, they can't just say that

1244
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 6: the reason we don't do anything useful is because these

1245
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 6: stupid regulators won't let us lend you bitcoin or whatever.

1246
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 6: And so I think, you know, there is going to

1247
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 6: be this moment where people are like, okay, so do

1248
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 6: it now, you know, like do the innovation now, And

1249
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 6: it's going to expose a lot of the popsicle sticks

1250
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 6: and bubble gum that's holding up this crypto industry because

1251
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 6: they don't have that excuse anymore, which I think will

1252
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 6: be interesting. I just hope it doesn't take, like, you know,

1253
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 6: the economic collapse of an entire country to prove it.

1254
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 4: Well.

1255
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: My line on this is that like accelerationism as an

1256
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 3: ideology doesn't exist anymore because there's not there's nothing you

1257
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 3: can do to do the acceleration. Yeah right, like or

1258
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 3: the like left accelerationism like Trump and Elon Musk like

1259
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 3: just have their fucking foot hammering the pedal all the

1260
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 3: way down. We are accelerating as fast as we could

1261
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 3: possibly go, and all we have left is to like

1262
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 3: make sure what the fucking acceleration goes our way and

1263
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 3: up theirs.

1264
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, but I yeah, I guess, like you know,

1265
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 6: it's me trying to find a light in the darkness.

1266
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 6: You know, it's like, all right, well, I guess at

1267
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 6: least we might see the crypto industry fall apart.

1268
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I look, look, they might bring down the

1269
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 3: first of arco capitalists president.

1270
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 5: So yeah, that's true.

1271
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know today Argentina, tomorrow in the world.

1272
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1273
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 6: Well, and I think also just like you know, it's

1274
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 6: interesting to see this uprising and sort of broad distaste

1275
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 6: formula and everything that he's doing when everything that he's

1276
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 6: doing is so clearly modeled after Donald Trump and his

1277
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 6: affection for Elon Musk, and so you know, to see

1278
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 6: people sort of turn on that is perhaps a little

1279
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 6: bit instructive.

1280
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1281
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 3: And I think this is interesting kind of like bounce

1282
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: back thing too, because he's like, you know, somebody say

1283
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 3: he's modeling himself on Trump one, like the first trumpministration,

1284
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,919
Speaker 3: but he got even weirder with it than like Trump wanted,

1285
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 3: and now Trump modeling itself back. Yeah, like slingshotting. But yeah,

1286
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 3: and and and and and and I don't know, hope, hope,

1287
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 3: hopefully the fucking rebound hits them too, and they also

1288
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 3: get the backlash to it, and we Yeah, I don't

1289
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 3: know we we don't all die when they actually set

1290
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 3: a nuke off because we've driven them out of power already.

1291
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 5: That would be nice.

1292
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1293
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 3: Well, Mollie, thank you so much for coming on the

1294
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 3: show and for talking talking with us about this unhinged bullshit,

1295
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 3: and also just genuinely thank you, thank you for reporting

1296
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 3: on all of the ship because oh my god, it

1297
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 3: is not easy. I don't know how you stay sane.

1298
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 6: I don't pretend I do give in the madness. Yeah, yeah, well,

1299
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 6: thank you for having me.

1300
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and where where where can people find your work?

1301
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 6: You can find me at citation needed dot news. I

1302
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 6: also a run web three is going just great, which

1303
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 6: is web three is going great?

1304
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 5: Dot com.

1305
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 6: And then I'm on social media everywhere you'll find me

1306
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 6: from either of those websites.

1307
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, we will put links to all of this in

1308
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 3: the description. Thank you again, and yeah, I don't know,

1309
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 3: go make crypto so uncool that these people have a

1310
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 3: terrible day in panic.

1311
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 5: I'll do my best.

1312
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 9: Hi everyone, and welcome to It Could Happen Here a

1313
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 9: podcast about things falling apart and the people putting them

1314
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 9: back together. And today Garrison and I are joined by

1315
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 9: Hailey and Dan, both Haley and Dan are gender affirming

1316
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 9: care providers in the Northeast, and they both work at

1317
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 9: federally qualit health centers. Welcome to the show, guys.

1318
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 7: Thank you so much and year.

1319
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 9: Okay. So for people who are not familiar, right, maybe

1320
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 9: they've been fortunate enough to have like really good health

1321
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 9: care the whole life, or fortunate enough to not live

1322
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 9: in the United States and have this bizarre like web

1323
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 9: of healthcare provision. Can you explain what a federally qualified

1324
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 9: healthcare center is?

1325
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 4: Sure? You matter?

1326
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 15: If I take this with Hailey, So I would start

1327
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 15: by saying that our industry, our advocacy arms would riot

1328
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 15: if they assumed that federally qualified health centers weren't good care.

1329
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 19: Right.

1330
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 7: So yeah, I dismissed with that to start.

1331
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 9: Oh, yeah, I get yeah, I guess good is a

1332
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 9: relative to Yeah. I've relied on federally qualified healthcare center

1333
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 9: for one and it was great.

1334
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 7: They were very nice.

1335
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 9: Actually, my prescriptions cost a lot less now than they

1336
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 9: do with my very expensive Eyheigh insurance.

1337
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1338
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 15: So, around the nineteen sixties there was the sort of

1339
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 15: free clinic movement that got started, and what grew out

1340
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 15: of that became the federally qualified health center system in

1341
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 15: the United States, So there are roughly sixteen hundred unique

1342
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 15: federally qualified health centers all over the country, and we,

1343
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 15: as a sort of confederated set of health centers all

1344
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 15: across the country, are responsible for treating those most in

1345
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 15: need in the United States, so the Medicaid population, those

1346
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 15: without insurance. We cannot turn anybody away if you do

1347
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 15: not have insurance, people in rural areas where healthcare is

1348
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 15: very difficult to access and to get, undocumented folks, and

1349
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 15: really everybody in between. At the health center that I

1350
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 15: work at, we mostly treat folks on Medicaid, which is

1351
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 15: pretty typical, although you'll find in states with no Medicaid

1352
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 15: expansion it's a lot more uninsured and less Medicaid. But

1353
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 15: we are the nation's safety net healthcare provider, and without us,

1354
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 15: there are roughly one in ten Americans would not get

1355
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 15: their healthcare.

1356
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 9: Jeez, well, I guess people who are not in the

1357
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 9: United States, do you want to go and give us

1358
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 9: a go one minute speedrun of what Medicaid is medicare.

1359
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 15: Sure, So America does not have a nationalized insurance program.

1360
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 15: As we are very frustrated with most of the time.

1361
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 15: It's mostly commercial insurance that you mostly get through your job.

1362
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 15: But if you are not fortunate it's not the right word,

1363
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 15: but if you're not fortunate enough to get that. Medicaid

1364
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 15: is the system that gives health insurance to people who

1365
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 15: are living at or below the federal poverty line. With

1366
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 15: the Affordable Care Act or the Acabambacare, that level raised

1367
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 15: a little bit, so you could still get Medicaid if

1368
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 15: you were at above the federal poverty line.

1369
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 7: But this is mostly for the working poor. That's who

1370
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 7: gets Medicaid.

1371
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 4: Cool.

1372
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's a great system. Let's talk about how this

1373
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 9: has funded them. And you said the US doesn't have

1374
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 9: like a single pair healthcare system, So how are these

1375
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 9: healthcare centers funded right now? Or maybe how were they

1376
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 9: funded like six weeks ago.

1377
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 15: Yeah, So most of the work that we do is

1378
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 15: fee for service. We're not a lot different than a

1379
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 15: lot of other places in that regard. Right, if you

1380
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 15: have Medicaid patients, we are a fee for service program.

1381
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 15: We give provision of care to them on a per

1382
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 15: visit base, same as anywhere else in the country. And

1383
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 15: how that works and we get reimbursed for it. What

1384
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 15: makes FQS different than everywhere else.

1385
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 7: Is two things.

1386
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 15: One, we get a special rate that is designated because

1387
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 15: of our willingness to take on these more expensive, more

1388
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 15: complicated patients and to ensure that they are healthy enough

1389
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 15: to keep out of expensive.

1390
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 7: Systems of care like the emergency rooms and things of

1391
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 7: that nature.

1392
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 15: And two is that we have a grant called the

1393
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 15: FED three thirty And this is a sort of like large,

1394
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 15: sort of use it as you need to grant that

1395
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 15: depending on the agency, is anywhere from five to twenty

1396
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 15: five percent of your total annual funds and is meant

1397
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 15: to cover all of the folks who can afford care

1398
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 15: and are uninsured.

1399
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 19: Part of my funding also, I do a lot of

1400
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 19: work with HIV and HIV prevention, so a lot of

1401
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 19: my work is done via Ryan White funding. And there's

1402
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,480
Speaker 19: some other kind of separate funding streams that's applicable specifically

1403
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 19: to gender firming care. However, it's all kind of messy

1404
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 19: and tied up in a lot of those other funding

1405
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 19: streams that Dan mentioned, and there's some specific limitations because

1406
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 19: of those funding streams. Again historically because who knows right now,

1407
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 19: but through something called the High Amendment, it means that

1408
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 19: our funding would be at jeopardy if we provided abortion care.

1409
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 19: So there are some kind of limitations. A lot of

1410
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 19: what we do as an FQHT is providing really comprehensive,

1411
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 19: expansive care where kind of some of the few clinics

1412
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 19: that do everything that we do under one roof, But

1413
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 19: there have been some limitations, specifically abortion to that.

1414
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's more of a a healthcare experience that I'm

1415
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 9: used to with someone from Europe, like going to one

1416
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 9: of these centers and like the American one where you

1417
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 9: get a referral and then yeah, get approves and blah

1418
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 9: blah blah, and like a.

1419
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 19: Lot of the ways that I talk to friends who

1420
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 19: live in other countries, Like, I feel like my role

1421
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 19: is kind of more similar to like a GP as

1422
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 19: a nurse partitioner. There isn't necessarily an equivalent, but I

1423
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 19: feel like a GP is kind of a very similar

1424
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 19: universal way to understand a lot of what I do.

1425
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, that makes sense. So can you explain Ryan White funding?

1426
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,719
Speaker 9: Like where does that come from? Why is it called

1427
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 9: Ryan White?

1428
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 19: So basically Ryan White funding was initiated in I believe

1429
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 19: the early nineties during the AIDS crisis and was a

1430
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 19: large government initiative. It's named after Ryan White, who was

1431
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 19: a patient who contracted HIV through a blood transfusion.

1432
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Ryan White.

1433
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 19: Funding right now is a major source for funding things

1434
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 19: like PREP, which is medication for prevention for HAV as

1435
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 19: well as direct HIV treatment.

1436
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, so a number of these things, right, gender affirming care,

1437
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 9: preps care for people with HIV, or preventing people from

1438
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 9: getting HIV through pre exposure prophylaxis. That you said, like

1439
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 9: these are things that have been like at the center

1440
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 9: of the culture war for the current government, right, Like

1441
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 9: that they're like the things that they point to is

1442
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 9: you know, whatever they're sort of like impacton's impacts in

1443
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 9: construction of fascism, he talks about moral decline, right, and

1444
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 9: this is their moral decline. That this is what they

1445
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 9: use when they're constructing their kind of we will save

1446
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 9: you narrative. What does that mean for funding? And like,

1447
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 9: what does that mean more importantly for your patients of

1448
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 9: people who come to you for these different types of care.

1449
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 19: I mean, I think it's terrifying. I think I'm more

1450
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 19: on the patient facing side. So a lot of the

1451
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 19: conversations I've been having are just about the uncertainty I'm

1452
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 19: a prescriber for a lot of trans youth adolescents and

1453
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 19: young adults, and so moreover, the uncertainty of just being

1454
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 19: able to you know, get their medication, the stress of

1455
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 19: being publicly named and targeted in this culture war has

1456
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 19: just created a climate of fear. As my job, I

1457
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 19: want to be able to reassure patients that I am

1458
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 19: going to fight for them and do all that I can.

1459
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 1: But it's really scary.

1460
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 19: As Dan mentioned, a lot of our patients don't have

1461
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 19: financial safety net, they don't have a medical safety net.

1462
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: We're really the one option for them.

1463
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 19: And if our clinic does not continue to offer this

1464
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 19: type of care, these are our kids who are going

1465
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 19: to go without hormones. I prescribe puberty blockers. My work

1466
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 19: as a gender for maing care provider isn't just blockers

1467
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 19: and hormones, but those are medications that we know are

1468
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 19: life saving. We know that that unfortunately, kids will suicide

1469
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 19: if they don't have access to those medications. And so

1470
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 19: I think, you know, talking about funding, talking about kind

1471
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 19: of these bigger shifts politically, you know, are sayings that unfortunately,

1472
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 19: a lot of the conversations I'm having are really coming

1473
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 19: just down to safety and safety planning and figuring out

1474
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 19: support networks and talking about creative ways to get hormones

1475
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 19: if we can't prescribe them.

1476
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's worth talking about the fact that, like,

1477
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 15: there are so many angles of attack on this. Right,

1478
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 15: there is the one that is just very clearly aimed

1479
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,520
Speaker 15: at trans kids, right the EO that specifies like protecting

1480
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 15: children it's nonsense, but that is aimed at ending this

1481
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 15: care everywhere. Now are they going to be able to

1482
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 15: do it everywhere? I don't know, maybe, but not quickly.

1483
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 15: But they can end it for FQHCs all across the

1484
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 15: country by simply making it like the heighth Amendment. If

1485
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 15: we were to perform abortion services at the place that

1486
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 15: I work, then we would lose our FED three thirty

1487
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 15: funding and we would lose our FQ designation, which would

1488
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 15: cut our rate in half, and that would devastate the

1489
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 15: business and put us out and mean that we could

1490
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 15: not care for the thousands and thousands and thousands of

1491
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 15: other people that we care for besides those kids.

1492
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 4: Right.

1493
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 7: Then there are also just.

1494
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 15: The doze fuckery that is going to harm all of

1495
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 15: this and may create a lot of the same outcomes right,

1496
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 15: which is they turned off grants kind of just across

1497
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 15: the board. Yes, some of them were targeted on things

1498
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 15: like gender affirming, most of them were just like, it's

1499
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 15: a grant, we're turning it off. And then there was

1500
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 15: the tro but much of that funding has remained frozen.

1501
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 15: We have been told that the system is up and

1502
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 15: running and that they undid what they did, and the

1503
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 15: courts stepped in, and oh, don't we have the courts

1504
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 15: still here in the United States. Isn't that a good thing?

1505
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 15: But they just kept the funding off. Whether because they're

1506
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 15: incompetent or because they're actively defying the law doesn't really matter.

1507
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 15: And as a result, federally qualified health centers all across

1508
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 15: the country have laid people off. They have closed clinics

1509
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:40,680
Speaker 15: and have entirely gone underwater in some cases. And then

1510
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,640
Speaker 15: those people are not there to treat the community that

1511
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 15: needs them so badly. And all of these systems are

1512
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 15: grounded in their communities. So when you lose the clinic

1513
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,680
Speaker 15: that's in LA that had to close its doors for

1514
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 15: the office that's on one side of town, the people

1515
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,879
Speaker 15: there knew that place. It was part of their community.

1516
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 15: Part of their existence is grounded in that community and

1517
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 15: its community's needs, and.

1518
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:03,719
Speaker 7: That's just gone.

1519
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 15: And this puts us in a very difficult position, and

1520
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 15: you know, leadership in the very difficult position of figuring out, well,

1521
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 15: do I worry about these trans youth and the fact

1522
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 15: that they might kill themselves, or do I worry about

1523
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 15: the impact that standing up on principle and saying I

1524
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 15: won't toss them to the wolves might have on the

1525
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,799
Speaker 15: rest of the system. And it becomes a very difficult

1526
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:26,560
Speaker 15: sort of situation for us as providers to navigate. But

1527
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 15: you know, in fairness to leadership, which I disagree with

1528
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 15: for them too.

1529
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's tough. Can you briefly explain, like maybe lay

1530
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 9: out a timeline, because we talked about executive orders there,

1531
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 9: We talked about a tro like there was a large

1532
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 9: number of executive orders right in the last three weeks,

1533
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 9: so like maybe people miss them. Can you explain the

1534
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 9: pertinent executive orders? And then what's a tensat difference training order?

1535
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:53,640
Speaker 15: Yeah, So on Trump's first day in office, on the

1536
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 15: day of his inauguration, so January twentieth, he signs one

1537
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 15: hundred some odd executive orders. The ones that are particularly

1538
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 15: of interest to us in healthcare. Were protecting children against

1539
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 15: chemical and surgical mutilation is the name of it, which

1540
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 15: is a disgusting and vile name.

1541
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 20: Yeah.

1542
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 15: And then protecting women something something something defending women. Yeah,

1543
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 15: defending women, which is similarly aimed at transgender individuals, and

1544
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 15: I think will be used after we are under attack

1545
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 15: for trans youth, to come after trans adults in federally

1546
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 15: qualified health centers as well. Those eos led to later

1547
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 15: that week, on Friday, we got emails to every PI,

1548
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 15: which is principal investigator on every federal grant that we had,

1549
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 15: that said, because of those two, and there was one

1550
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 15: about DEI, which is also in executive order, you are

1551
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 15: not allowed to use any of these grant dollars in

1552
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 15: service of anything in defiance of these three executive orders.

1553
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 15: So that was the first shot we got, and it

1554
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 15: came only four days later. It's threatening, but it wasn't

1555
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 15: specific right. It didn't specifically say we're going to do X,

1556
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,719
Speaker 15: Y or Z, but it was here, here's a threat.

1557
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 15: The following Tuesday, dog is let loose and announces that

1558
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 15: they are freezing federal grant funding tied to anything that

1559
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:17,639
Speaker 15: is in opposition to those things. If you actually looked

1560
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 15: at the excel file that they released with the actual grants.

1561
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 15: It froze everything. Like it was not just the stuff

1562
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 15: that they felt was in opposition to this, it was

1563
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 15: like everything. We have a ton of grants that were

1564
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 15: on that list at the agency that I work at,

1565
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 15: and boy, oh boy, oh boy, was there a lot

1566
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 15: of panic going around. Wednesday rolls around, and they get

1567
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 15: a judge to come in and sort of put a

1568
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 15: halt on it. And then later that day a press

1569
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 15: secretary says, oh, we're just going to find the memo.

1570
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 15: We're still going to freeze everything, and then the judge

1571
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 15: comes back and puts a temporary straining order. So in theory,

1572
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,640
Speaker 15: what that should have meant is that all of that

1573
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 15: grant funding once again flows. And it did not importantly

1574
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 15: too for us, given how much Medicaid dollars we take

1575
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 15: in Medicaid portals, and all fifty states went down, so

1576
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 15: we could not get any of those dollars in service

1577
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 15: of what we were doing for twelve hours. But still

1578
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 15: it was this very concerning situation because bedicaid was not

1579
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 15: on their list of things that they were after, and

1580
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 15: yet we couldn't even access it on the state level.

1581
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 15: A few more weeks go by and there's news popping about, Hey,

1582
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 15: you said you unfroze stuff, but it's still frozen. Another

1583
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 15: judge issued an order saying that, like, no, for real,

1584
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 15: I meet at this time unfreeze everything. I know some

1585
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 15: of the grants that we had that we couldn't access

1586
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 15: seem to have come back online, but I don't know,

1587
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 15: you know, I think it would be an impossible thing

1588
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 15: to do an accounting of like every single one that

1589
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 15: might have been turned off that might might or might

1590
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 15: not be back on right now. But I am doubtful

1591
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 15: that at this point every single grant across the federal

1592
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 15: agency is potentially available for folks.

1593
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 7: Just seems unlikely to me.

1594
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, we should pivot to advertisements here. So I'm going

1595
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 9: to do that and then we'll be right back. Okay,

1596
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 9: we are back. So you talked about like these grants

1597
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 9: being turned off or not coming. What does that mean?

1598
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 9: Does that mean people don't get cared? That mean providers

1599
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 9: don't get paid? Does that mean they can't access their prescriptions?

1600
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 9: Like what does it look like if I'm trying to

1601
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 9: access care through one of your clinics?

1602
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 19: So, yeah, I'll speak to that a little bit on

1603
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 19: the prescriber side, because I think, you know, having direct

1604
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,639
Speaker 19: contact with someone who works in the administration is really

1605
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 19: the only way that I have really been able to

1606
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 19: get any updates. So as a healthcare provider, it's been

1607
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:45,839
Speaker 19: out our chaos. Basically every day we've gotten different messaging

1608
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:50,559
Speaker 19: around whether or not appointments can be scheduled, new patients,

1609
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 19: can you know, schedule intakes, whether or not we're able

1610
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 19: to prescribe these life saving medications, and no one knows

1611
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 19: exact eactly. Gender firming care is basically healthcare. There's nothing

1612
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 19: that separates it. There's no hardline, there's no clear distinction.

1613
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 19: It is medically indicated, evidence based care. So saying you

1614
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 19: can't do gender firming care, it literally doesn't make any

1615
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 19: sense in terms of, you know, what we do as prescribers.

1616
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 19: And on my end, I've been faced with intimidation. I've

1617
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 19: been faced with kind of whisper networks of misinformation coming

1618
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 19: from administration trying to get us to stop prescribing because

1619
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:37,520
Speaker 19: they do see this type of care as a liability.

1620
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 19: I'm still prescribing. There is no state law in the

1621
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 19: state that I am in that prevents my ability to

1622
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 19: act us to the full extent of my scope. There

1623
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 19: are also no medical indications for me to stop prescribing,

1624
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,560
Speaker 19: and I'm ethically bound as a nurse practitioner to do

1625
01:20:57,680 --> 01:20:59,600
Speaker 19: what I believe is best for my patients, which is

1626
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 19: to continue to provide them with a care that they need.

1627
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: But it's terrifying, I.

1628
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 15: Think importantly, Haley and I have the event of working

1629
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 15: for a more economically stable institution. There's a lot of

1630
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 15: health clinics out there that have a week's worth of

1631
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 15: working capital, right, so if all of a sudden they

1632
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 15: lose access to every grant dollar, it lose access to

1633
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 15: their three thirty. They were scheduled to draw down on

1634
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 15: a grant that was going to cover a whole bunch

1635
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 15: of upcoming expenses, but they haven't done it yet, and

1636
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 15: then they can't. Like in very real ways, that may

1637
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 15: mean that the doors are closed and the place goes

1638
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 15: under and that no one can get care there.

1639
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 7: And there is this real.

1640
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 15: Challenge of you know, how do we decide what is

1641
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,600
Speaker 15: the best thing to do. But for me and what

1642
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 15: sort of started working with in our agency at least

1643
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 15: to organize around this, is that like this is an

1644
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 15: anti fascist practice. That is the right medical thing to do,

1645
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 15: it is the right ethical thing to do, but it

1646
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 15: is also our chance to take an anti fascist stance

1647
01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 15: against this government, because if we don't stand now for

1648
01:21:57,320 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 15: the very first group they're coming for, then the next group,

1649
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 15: which is without question trans adults and undocumented people, then

1650
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 15: those groups will fall just as quickly, and then at

1651
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 15: some point we're doing the poem the first they came for,

1652
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 15: the socialist thing, and I just refused to be a

1653
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 15: part of that.

1654
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, let's talk about what that means then. Like you said,

1655
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 9: it's difficult to get any response from administration right in

1656
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:25,720
Speaker 9: terms what you can do, intens what you can't do,

1657
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 9: how odd stuff, and providers organizing to make sure that

1658
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 9: they're able to keep providing for their patients, So just to.

1659
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 19: Provide also like a little bit of a peek into

1660
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 19: kind of the broader landscape of this. Our clinic is

1661
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 19: not alone in their confusion on how they've been handling this,

1662
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 19: not only sqhcs, but also hospital affiliated clinics, academic medical

1663
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 19: clinics have basically, clinic by clinic, decided on their own

1664
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 19: plan on how to manage this, which is also incredibly confusing.

1665
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: For providers and for patients.

1666
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 19: But something that was really heartening was that NYU ling Go,

1667
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 19: and this was in the news recently, they canceled appointments

1668
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 19: for two kids, literally just two kids, which is more

1669
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:11,679
Speaker 19: than enough.

1670
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:15,480
Speaker 1: And it sparked this enormous outcry and protests.

1671
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 19: And so I think there's also, on my end, a

1672
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 19: lot of solidarity building with other providers who are doing

1673
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:26,120
Speaker 19: this work, and a lot of inspiration. There are clinics

1674
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 19: out there, some who are FQHCs like us, who have

1675
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 19: stood firm and they've said our doors are going to

1676
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 19: stay open, We're going to keep providing this care. And

1677
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 19: so I think there are models out there, and I

1678
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 19: think that there are networks of healthcare providers who are

1679
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 19: committed to continue to advocate and just continue to do

1680
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 19: this right because a lot of what we're facing right

1681
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 19: now is intimidation. It's not actual legal.

1682
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: Threats as of yet.

1683
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think the organizing side has been challenging but

1684
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 15: also hugely rewarding.

1685
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 4: Right.

1686
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 15: It became really obvious really early on that both from

1687
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 15: the federal government's perspective as well as from our organization's perspective,

1688
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 15: that the uncertainty was where they wanted us all to

1689
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 15: live and die.

1690
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 7: That was the place that served them and their goals

1691
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 7: the most.

1692
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 15: And so how does uncertainty sort of foster Well, people

1693
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 15: don't talk to one another, right, like this is true,

1694
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 15: kind of an organizational sensus across the board. Right, if

1695
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:26,599
Speaker 15: you're in a union, you don't talk about your salary

1696
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 15: doesn't benefit you, it benefits the boss. And so if

1697
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 15: we're not talking to one another about where our lines are,

1698
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:33,840
Speaker 15: who we're going to treat, whether we're going to keep

1699
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:35,679
Speaker 15: doing it, or listen to them what we're being told,

1700
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 15: we're not being told that were consulting lawyers, all these

1701
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 15: other kind of things, then we're all just alone in

1702
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 15: the dark kind of you know, trying not to scream

1703
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 15: and cry about the horrors that are happening around us.

1704
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 15: So we pulled together folks with conversation here, conversation there.

1705
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 15: Folks who before anything was going on internally, you know,

1706
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 15: made really bold statements about what they would and would

1707
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 15: not do around this kind of stuff. And now all

1708
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 15: of a sudden, there there's an internal network that's looking

1709
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 15: at well, Okay, so individually we can keep doing this

1710
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 15: care because it's the right thing to do. But as

1711
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 15: a group, if they start coming after us.

1712
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 7: We have a lot more power. There's a lot more

1713
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 7: that we can do.

1714
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,600
Speaker 15: And I suspect, and you know, Hayley's getting at this

1715
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 15: point that like, there are probably a network of us

1716
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 15: across the entire country in these kind of settings that

1717
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:25,720
Speaker 15: are not talking amongst ourselves at our workplace, but are

1718
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 15: really not talking about it amongst ourselves on a national level.

1719
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 15: And I think we have some power that could be

1720
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 15: used there to really make a difference in all of this.

1721
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 15: And I am optimistic that if we talk about this,

1722
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 15: we get this out there, we make sure everyone's communicating

1723
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 15: openly about it, that there's a real possibility that we

1724
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 15: can work together to prevent this from being the first

1725
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 15: of many dominoes to fall.

1726
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 19: And one thing that's interesting, I think is that with transscare,

1727
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,639
Speaker 19: TRANTULSCA is inherently radical. Like Transtall's care is not something

1728
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 19: that came from the kind of medical hierarchy. This is

1729
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 19: by and large a field that was communal. Trans people

1730
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 19: were doing their own trans healthcare before it became kind

1731
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 19: of institutionalized into a lot of these spaces. So I

1732
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 19: think we also have a lot of providers who are

1733
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 19: willing to function up right, like the community and the

1734
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:21,560
Speaker 19: providers are intertwined. And I do think there is a

1735
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:25,639
Speaker 19: real kind of radical bent to this type of work,

1736
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 19: which is why I think a lot of us have

1737
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 19: been so easily able to collectivize and strategize and kind

1738
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:34,719
Speaker 19: of come together.

1739
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 1: It's a pretty small world as well.

1740
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 15: We sat down on a call and talked about, you know,

1741
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 15: what are we going to do? And I made mention

1742
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 15: that like, oh, through my other organizing work, I've got

1743
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 15: a DIY connection for Estra dial. So that's a huge

1744
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 15: thing that will help us if we can't prescribe this anymore,

1745
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,880
Speaker 15: if Medicaid stops covering it, Yah, YadA, YadA. I was like,

1746
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 15: but I don't have a you know, a DIY solution

1747
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 15: for tea. If anyone knows of anybody, that'd be great.

1748
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 15: And immediately someone's like, oh, yeah, absolutely, I do. It's tested,

1749
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 15: it's a ninety nine point nine percent pure we're ready

1750
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 15: to go. So now, like I wouldn't have done that,

1751
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 15: There was no way for us to know that that

1752
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 15: was the kind of radical work that people were doing.

1753
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 7: If not for coming together on this kind of stuff, Yeah,

1754
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 7: maybe we.

1755
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 9: Should explain like the inherent risks like legally, and then

1756
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 9: then distinction between those two hormones legally, right, like if

1757
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:20,759
Speaker 9: people are unaware.

1758
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 19: Yeah, so you know, as a medical provider again, I

1759
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,639
Speaker 19: have to be a little bit careful here. But basically,

1760
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 19: because the stosterone has been used by mostly the cistmail

1761
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:36,560
Speaker 19: community as an anabolic steroid and used you know, and

1762
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,839
Speaker 19: somewhat would call like anabolic steroid misuse or steroid use disorder,

1763
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,840
Speaker 19: it is a controlled substance. Estradial is not. They're both

1764
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 19: bioidentical hormones. Every human on this planet, their body makes

1765
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 19: estrogen and testosterone E.

1766
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:54,280
Speaker 1: And t estradyle and testosterone.

1767
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:59,799
Speaker 19: However, in the United States, testosterone is considered a controlled substance,

1768
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 19: which makes it a little more tricky for folks to

1769
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:07,640
Speaker 19: access without a prescription and also can put them at

1770
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 19: legal risk if they do so.

1771
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:12,559
Speaker 9: Right, Like there's a built in legal consequence for people

1772
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 9: who are trying to manufacture there or who are trying

1773
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 9: to obtain it, like outside of the sort of prescription system,

1774
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 9: not that there aren't other probably legal threats coming down

1775
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 9: the pipeline, I guess.

1776
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 21: Also, testosterone is yes, it is a controlled substance. It

1777
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 21: does flow in the bodybuilding community. Ye, it's well controlled. Yeah,

1778
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 21: that is also like worth stating, because yes, if you

1779
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:38,439
Speaker 21: go to your average gym.

1780
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, you can walk across the borders to Tijuanner

1781
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 9: and see like gas stations have the prices like unleaded premium. Yeah,

1782
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 9: you can get testosterone prices like displayed in the same fashion.

1783
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you're you're huge fans of Joe Rogan.

1784
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 9: So many many.

1785
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 19: Of my other patients who are not trans have been

1786
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:05,320
Speaker 19: influenced to purchase disasterone because of our good friends.

1787
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1788
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:08,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, fascinating self.

1789
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,840
Speaker 15: Yeah, which is also gender affirm and care for whatever

1790
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 15: that's worth, like gender a firm in care too.

1791
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 9: Yes they do. It's a lot easier for them right now.

1792
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:32,720
Speaker 9: So let's talk about like what this organizing looks like

1793
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 9: on the ground, right, Like if someone's working, maybe they're

1794
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 9: not in an f QHC, right, Maybe they're working in

1795
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 9: an academic health center. Maybe they're working, you know, in

1796
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 9: one of the many other places where you can access

1797
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 9: gender affirming care in this country, and they are feeling

1798
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 9: like alone or they're scared and they're not receiving any

1799
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:54,880
Speaker 9: affirmation or help from their management, and they don't know

1800
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 9: who they can talk to among their colleagues, Like how

1801
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 9: are people connecting? Like what are people talking about? And

1802
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 9: like how can people who are because you know, the

1803
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 9: healthcare system is fast in this country because it duplicates itself.

1804
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:14,240
Speaker 9: It's the nature of American privatized healthcare. Like, how can

1805
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 9: people who want to continue providing care for patients do that?

1806
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:19,759
Speaker 9: How do they organize their colleagues? How do they contact

1807
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 9: people who are already organizing, Like, let's talk through that

1808
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 9: nuts and bolts of it.

1809
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 19: I mean, I think there's a lot of national orgs

1810
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 19: out there that are really doing the work. So if

1811
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:32,519
Speaker 19: you're a medical provider, I would highly recommend to join GLAMMA,

1812
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 19: which is a gay lesbian medical association, because they have

1813
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 19: some lawsuits and as a member of GLAMMA, that could

1814
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:46,080
Speaker 19: possibly give you some additional protection. Following other orgs like

1815
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:51,639
Speaker 19: Lambda Legal Stage, which is an organization for an elder gay,

1816
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:58,560
Speaker 19: lesbian and queer folks, people have existed and have built organizations.

1817
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 19: A lot of those are organizations are fighting this on

1818
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:06,000
Speaker 19: a national level, and some of those are more geared

1819
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 19: toward healthcare professionals.

1820
01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:09,640
Speaker 1: Like Gleamma, I.

1821
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 15: Would say, there's two conversations that we all need to

1822
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 15: be having. Like those external organizations are huge and necessary

1823
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 15: for direction within your own space, you have to talk

1824
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 15: to your colleagues in a way that's honest and talk

1825
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 15: to them about risk taking. Talk to them about where

1826
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 15: you will and will not budge on some of these

1827
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 15: kind of things. Talk to them about the value of

1828
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 15: the work that you all do because there's more of

1829
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:35,040
Speaker 15: you doing it. Talk to your trans colleagues. They exist,

1830
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:37,560
Speaker 15: they're out there, like they have very strong opinions on this,

1831
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 15: I am sure. And then talk to a lawyer. Talk

1832
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:45,680
Speaker 15: to an employment lawyer, because your corporate attorneys have very

1833
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:49,240
Speaker 15: different goals than you do. Their goal is simply to

1834
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:53,680
Speaker 15: protect the company and its bottom line, and both they

1835
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:57,680
Speaker 15: and the federal government and the sort of DOJ are

1836
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 15: spewing absolute bullshit. So don't let them flood the zone

1837
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 15: with nonsense. Get a lawyer who can tell you what's

1838
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 15: nonsense and stand firmly in that because it is. And

1839
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,800
Speaker 15: then when you start thinking about as an organization, as

1840
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 15: a group, as a set of employees communicating with you know,

1841
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 15: leadership about these kind of things, Know that the law

1842
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 15: is actually not on their side, it's on yours. And

1843
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:24,600
Speaker 15: let them know that they are exposing themselves to vulnerability

1844
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 15: for malpractice and for civil rights violations and any number

1845
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 15: of other things that they probably don't want to be

1846
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 15: on the hook for. This is the leverage that we've

1847
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 15: got right now. It seems to have slowed things down

1848
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 15: a little bit internally for us that they've had to

1849
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 15: confront like a very well pointed out legal opinion that

1850
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 15: said that like they were exposing their providers to civil

1851
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:49,599
Speaker 15: lawsuits if they didn't do this, and that the FDCA,

1852
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:52,799
Speaker 15: the Federal Tort Claims Act, didn't protect people under these guides.

1853
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 15: That has been really beneficial to us. The other thing

1854
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 15: I would say is like there's a real union sort

1855
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 15: of feel to a lot of this, and as we

1856
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 15: started coming together, a bunch of us realize, well, we

1857
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 15: all kind of had union conversations somewhere along the way,

1858
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,640
Speaker 15: But corporate unions and like SEIU represents a lot of

1859
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 15: like individual sort of arms of companies, like the ones

1860
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 15: that we work at. They aren't interested in the politics

1861
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:20,599
Speaker 15: of the work you do. They are interested in your benefits.

1862
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 15: They are interested in you as a worker but they're

1863
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 15: not interested in like your relationship to the work. And

1864
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 15: so we are approaching this not necessarily as a union,

1865
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:32,759
Speaker 15: but from the perspective that if we need to strike

1866
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,640
Speaker 15: on behalf of patients and their access to care, like

1867
01:33:36,840 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 15: that's a tool in our toolbox, and we don't have

1868
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 15: to do anything more than declare it to strike to

1869
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:43,040
Speaker 15: be protected under the NLRB and some of these various

1870
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 15: different things. And we can do it for political reasons

1871
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 15: instead of for pay reasons, which means we could do

1872
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,360
Speaker 15: it as a diverse group instead of as all the nurses,

1873
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:54,120
Speaker 15: all the advanced practice providers, all of the psychologists and

1874
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:57,719
Speaker 15: therapists and lcsws, where they break us apart by discipline

1875
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:01,799
Speaker 15: instead of by you know what sort of managerial status

1876
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:02,080
Speaker 15: you are.

1877
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a very good point. I

1878
01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 9: read a book recently about how the long shoremen in

1879
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 9: San Francisco stopped weapons going to the Gilol salbad Or

1880
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 9: by striking and refusing to load weapons onto ships, and like,

1881
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:19,720
Speaker 9: that's a union energy we could use right now. Yeah, Yeah,

1882
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 9: I think people be well advised to, Like I will

1883
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 9: say that they'd be well advised to check with federal

1884
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 9: and local law because like some state legal landscapes can

1885
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 9: be very different. Right. I want to end with like

1886
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:34,560
Speaker 9: people are probably afraid of accessing care, right, Like, like

1887
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 9: people are probably afraid of going to see their providers,

1888
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 9: like understandably, like you said before, like especially kids or

1889
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 9: people under eighteen are like right in the center of

1890
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 9: the President of the United States called out a friend

1891
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 9: of mine personally by name recently. She's a trans athlete,

1892
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 9: and like they're really coming after people. I understand that

1893
01:34:56,520 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 9: people are afraid, Like what should they know if they're

1894
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 9: concerned about their whole moned supply or they're own puberty blockers?

1895
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 9: Right now, like people are listening, what would you Maybe

1896
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 9: they don't know where their provider stands, you know, Yeah.

1897
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 19: I mean I tell my patients this, But I'm in

1898
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:16,720
Speaker 19: awe of them. They're incredible. And a lot of them

1899
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 19: are nerdy theater kids who love cats and they want

1900
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 19: to just exist. And some of them are also incredible

1901
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 19: outspoken activists. They are just amazing, And I will fight

1902
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:36,719
Speaker 19: with everything that I've got for them, and I really.

1903
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 1: Hope they know that.

1904
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:40,439
Speaker 15: I think one of the mantras I've been given to

1905
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:42,800
Speaker 15: fellow colleagues as well, as to our leadership to like

1906
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:46,640
Speaker 15: get their heads on straight. Is that like pascism is messy, right,

1907
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,240
Speaker 15: Like it's a scary messy. There are a lot of

1908
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 15: throwing stuff with the wall and seeing what sticks. But

1909
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 15: the things that in theory are still in place, like

1910
01:35:57,120 --> 01:36:00,080
Speaker 15: when and if they fall. We have different problems the

1911
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 15: ones we're facing now, right, So we still have in

1912
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:06,439
Speaker 15: this country protections for your healthcare information.

1913
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:08,519
Speaker 7: So if what you worry about.

1914
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 15: In going to the doctor is that someone will find

1915
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:11,840
Speaker 15: out that your trends and put you on a list, like,

1916
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 15: I can't tell you that's never going to happen, but

1917
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 15: I can tell you that if it happens through your

1918
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:20,320
Speaker 15: healthcare clinic, like, we have significantly changed the threat model

1919
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:22,839
Speaker 15: that we're all living in because HIPPA doesn't matter anymore

1920
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:26,640
Speaker 15: and doesn't exist. Your providers are spending enormous amounts of

1921
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 15: time thinking carefully about how they document, where they document,

1922
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 15: how much of a deal they want to make it,

1923
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:34,040
Speaker 15: whether or not they can change the thing they're prescribing

1924
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 15: for you, and what diagnosis is for We are finding

1925
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:40,280
Speaker 15: ways to sort of throw as much cover and shade

1926
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 15: and camouflage over this as we can, but you shouldn't

1927
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 15: not come get care. Your life matters. You being in

1928
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,920
Speaker 15: the body that you were meant to have matters. Come

1929
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:52,360
Speaker 15: talk to us, come ask for help. We're here to

1930
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 15: do it, and we're not going to stop until they

1931
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:57,560
Speaker 15: make us. And right now they can't make us, and

1932
01:36:57,760 --> 01:36:58,920
Speaker 15: so we're going to keep doing it.

1933
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 19: And the mantra of trans people have always existed. Trans

1934
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 19: people exist, and personally, I'm going to do my best

1935
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:09,360
Speaker 19: to make sure that for every single one of my

1936
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:12,800
Speaker 19: patients that they continue to get what they need.

1937
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:15,640
Speaker 21: However that looks like, then it is good to hear.

1938
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 21: I know a lot of trans people have essentially trauma

1939
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 21: with aspects of the medical community, establishment, whatever, and like

1940
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:28,519
Speaker 21: you know, not not all practitioners maybe as much in

1941
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:32,000
Speaker 21: our camp as maybe you are. And I would encourage

1942
01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:34,280
Speaker 21: people if they are, if they're still looking for care

1943
01:37:34,479 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 21: through like these these sorts of channels, you should you

1944
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 21: should try to find out where other trans people in

1945
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:44,080
Speaker 21: your city are already going. There's certainly like clinics will

1946
01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 21: have stuff on their website that indicate that they either

1947
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:49,760
Speaker 21: specialize in this or they offer this as supposed to know,

1948
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:53,519
Speaker 21: maybe just a general general practitioner who may not be

1949
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 21: you know, the greatest in this vein, and like this,

1950
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:57,680
Speaker 21: this still happens. I've I've talked to a lot of

1951
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:03,600
Speaker 21: friends recently who've spoken about having increasingly uncomfortable experiences with

1952
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:07,120
Speaker 21: nurses or doctors, whether they're trying out like different clinics

1953
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:11,640
Speaker 21: or different or different providers, university providers. So it is

1954
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:14,519
Speaker 21: definitely worth doing some research beforehand so you know the

1955
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,720
Speaker 21: place you're going is going to be like with you,

1956
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:20,679
Speaker 21: which is just an unfortunate reality also of being trands.

1957
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 21: But that has been the case for a long time

1958
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:26,639
Speaker 21: and it only continues to be a factor when considering care.

1959
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 15: Absolutely, it's really important to ask ask your friends. That's

1960
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 15: really solid advice, in part because whether I like it

1961
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 15: or not, a lot of organizations are taking the stuff

1962
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:40,040
Speaker 15: that says, hey, we treat trans people down off their website,

1963
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 15: off their marketing materials.

1964
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:42,759
Speaker 7: We are not trying to draw that attention.

1965
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 15: It doesn't mean we don't do it, doesn't mean we're

1966
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,919
Speaker 15: not skilled and trained and educated and smart and passionate

1967
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:50,240
Speaker 15: about it. It just means we don't really want to

1968
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 15: totally fly a trans flag on the roof right now,

1969
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 15: because it's just going to cause everybody harm. So talk

1970
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 15: to your friends, talk to people in your community.

1971
01:38:58,760 --> 01:38:59,800
Speaker 7: They know us, we know them.

1972
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:02,920
Speaker 15: I have a lot of activism and experience outside of

1973
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:05,160
Speaker 15: my work, and it's amazing how many of those people

1974
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 15: end up being the same people that.

1975
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:09,800
Speaker 7: Are in this conversation because of the way that this

1976
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:10,320
Speaker 7: all works.

1977
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:10,720
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1978
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:12,599
Speaker 19: Yeah, I was just going to say, I think, unfortunately

1979
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 19: it is the norm. An evidence shows that, like large

1980
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:20,679
Speaker 19: evidence of studies show that trans people are treated pretty

1981
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 19: horribly by the healthcare system, and most of my patients

1982
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:28,000
Speaker 19: have experienced that in some way or another. But like

1983
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,839
Speaker 19: I was talking about before, a lot of trans healthcare

1984
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:34,519
Speaker 19: kind of comes from a DIY community and there's a

1985
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 19: lot of really good community information about, you know, kind

1986
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 19: of who to trust and who you can go to

1987
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:42,919
Speaker 19: in terms of finding an allied provider.

1988
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:46,920
Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah, and that's really good. I think that was

1989
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:47,360
Speaker 9: really great.

1990
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:47,519
Speaker 4: Guy.

1991
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:49,519
Speaker 9: Thank you so much for your time and for your

1992
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 9: words for people. Is there anything else you want to share?

1993
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 9: Or perhaps if people want to support your efforts somehow

1994
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:57,960
Speaker 9: or support people's access to care, that's an organization you

1995
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:00,679
Speaker 9: could direct them to, or maybe like the way people

1996
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:02,960
Speaker 9: coming shout out to you or I know a lot

1997
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 9: of people. There are people in my family who are

1998
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:09,120
Speaker 9: healthcare providers who have substantially changed their outlook on the

1999
01:40:09,200 --> 01:40:12,040
Speaker 9: world and politics by how terribly their trans patients have

2000
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 9: been treated. So like, you know, like some of us

2001
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 9: have been organizing for a minute, some of us have

2002
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 9: been organizing for like literally a minute, And like, how

2003
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,599
Speaker 9: do those people access these networks? Like how can people

2004
01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:26,840
Speaker 9: who are not in healthcare support you and what you're

2005
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:27,680
Speaker 9: doing and reach out?

2006
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 19: The gender liberation movement is incredible. They're doing a lot

2007
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:36,680
Speaker 19: of work, kind of public feasing to really get the

2008
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 19: point across on why this is so essential and also

2009
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:43,519
Speaker 19: why everybody should have the right to their own bodily

2010
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:48,320
Speaker 19: and gender autonomy. I think I mentioned earlier, but Lama,

2011
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 19: if you're on the healthcare side, and you know there

2012
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:54,920
Speaker 19: are also kind of if you're in an academic setting

2013
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:59,800
Speaker 19: looking to wpass the World Professional Association for Transgender how

2014
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,360
Speaker 19: kind of going to the experts in this field and

2015
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:06,120
Speaker 19: really following and mirroring what they're doing.

2016
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:11,240
Speaker 15: I think if you're looking as a SIS person who

2017
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 15: gets your care somewhere that might get federal funding, but

2018
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:17,839
Speaker 15: this is the thing that you care about, would encourage

2019
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:20,800
Speaker 15: you to sort of make people get on record about

2020
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:23,640
Speaker 15: this kind of stuff, right, it's been the most distasteful

2021
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:24,920
Speaker 15: piece of all of this is the kind of like

2022
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 15: weasel hiding in all of this. So force them on

2023
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:31,800
Speaker 15: the record, ask them. If they don't tell you, send

2024
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 15: them an email. If they don't know, respond to the email,

2025
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:37,040
Speaker 15: send a follow up email. Like, make people get on

2026
01:41:37,120 --> 01:41:39,559
Speaker 15: the record about this so that we know where their

2027
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:41,519
Speaker 15: values are. And if their values don't align with yours,

2028
01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 15: take your business elsewhere. Because at the end of the day,

2029
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:45,760
Speaker 15: helthcare is a business because the United States sucks, and

2030
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 15: so we have to use those dollars in the ways

2031
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 15: that we can, and it matters in a lot of ways.

2032
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 15: I don't know that anyone will care to and I

2033
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:56,160
Speaker 15: certainly don't want to present us as the people with

2034
01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:58,439
Speaker 15: all the answers here because we just like are figuring

2035
01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 15: this as we go to But you can email us

2036
01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 15: at Community Health Resistance at proton dot and maybe let's

2037
01:42:05,200 --> 01:42:07,120
Speaker 15: have a conversation. Maybe there's like a ton of people

2038
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:09,559
Speaker 15: in the FQ world who want to do like an

2039
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:13,320
Speaker 15: Amazon or a Starbucks like diy union project where we're

2040
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:15,479
Speaker 15: all working on this together. For the politics rather than

2041
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 15: the pay as the primary sort of reason for it.

2042
01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 15: Let's let's let's be a red union and get something going.

2043
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:22,760
Speaker 7: I don't know that we can.

2044
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 15: I don't know that it's the right call, but I

2045
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:27,280
Speaker 15: imagine there's more of us out there feeling this way

2046
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:27,600
Speaker 15: than not.

2047
01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 9: So Yeah, and like whatever it is, we're stronger together

2048
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,640
Speaker 9: than we are apart. So like talking is how we

2049
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 9: fix this. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate

2050
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:39,479
Speaker 9: you being so open about this. And yeah, I hope

2051
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 9: that you succeed. You're able to keep taking care of

2052
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:42,280
Speaker 9: people you can.

2053
01:42:42,479 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 7: We hope so too.

2054
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:06,640
Speaker 10: I'm Michael Phillips. I wrote a history of racism in

2055
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:10,240
Speaker 10: Dallas called White Metropolis, and have co authored an upcoming

2056
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 10: book on the history of eugenics in Texas called The

2057
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 10: Purifying Knife.

2058
01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 22: And I'm Stephen Monticelli, an investigative reporter and columnist who

2059
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:22,600
Speaker 22: covers extremism and far right movements for a variety of publications,

2060
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 22: including The Texas Observer and The Barbed Wire.

2061
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 10: School board meetings used to be boring. Board members typically

2062
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:35,760
Speaker 10: spend hours discussing financial reports, land purchases, plumbing contracts, and

2063
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:40,639
Speaker 10: other tedious topics, but Beginning in twenty twenty, Christopher Ruffo,

2064
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:44,320
Speaker 10: a former documentary filmmaker and fellow at the right wing

2065
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:48,559
Speaker 10: Heritage Foundation, the group responsible for Project twenty twenty five,

2066
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,880
Speaker 10: launched a campaign to convince Americans that public schools have

2067
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:58,040
Speaker 10: become communists and doctrination centers. Rufo falsely claimed that public

2068
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:02,160
Speaker 10: school teachers were brainwashing school children with something called critical

2069
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:07,439
Speaker 10: race theory or CRT for short. Adherents of critical race

2070
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:11,600
Speaker 10: theory argue that racism has become so intrinsically entwined in

2071
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:16,559
Speaker 10: American politics, law, and culture that anti discrimination laws typically fail.

2072
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:21,560
Speaker 10: While CRT is studied in some graduate schools and law programs,

2073
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:24,519
Speaker 10: it hasn't been taught at the grade school level where

2074
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 10: the outrage has been directed.

2075
01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:30,480
Speaker 22: That's certainly not the case in Texas, which influences curriculums

2076
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:33,679
Speaker 22: across the nation due to its large population and purchasing

2077
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 22: power of textbooks. But precision wasn't the point of Rufo's campaign. Rather,

2078
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:44,320
Speaker 22: it was to refashion CRT into a sort of political cudgel,

2079
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 22: something that Rufo admitted to in a series of tweets

2080
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 22: in twenty twenty one. The goal is to have the

2081
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:54,840
Speaker 22: public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think

2082
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:59,120
Speaker 22: critical race theory, Rufo wrote, we have decodified the term,

2083
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,679
Speaker 22: and will you codify it to annex the entire range

2084
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 22: of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans?

2085
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:07,280
Speaker 7: End quote?

2086
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:11,919
Speaker 22: On Fox News, Newsmax and other right wing media outlets,

2087
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:15,880
Speaker 22: Rufo convinced parents that instead of teaching kids reading, writing,

2088
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 22: and arithmetic, public school teachers were using CRT to brainwash

2089
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 22: white children into hating themselves and goading black children into

2090
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:29,360
Speaker 22: hating white people. Radical teachers and professors, Rufo warned, had

2091
01:45:29,439 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 22: launched a sinister campaign to destroy the American way of life.

2092
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 23: In a foundational paper called Whiteness's Property, the critical race

2093
01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:42,679
Speaker 23: theorist Cheryl Harris has proposed suspending private property rights, seizing

2094
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 23: land and well from the rich and redistributing it along

2095
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 23: racial lines.

2096
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:50,800
Speaker 10: Rufa's timing could not have been more perfect. The artificial

2097
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:55,639
Speaker 10: CRT panic broke out during the COVID pandemic. Parents already

2098
01:45:55,720 --> 01:46:00,200
Speaker 10: felt frustration and fury about the hardships of campus closings,

2099
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:04,799
Speaker 10: remote learning, and mass mandates, now convinced that their children

2100
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:07,479
Speaker 10: were being taught to scapego white people for all the

2101
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:12,280
Speaker 10: country's problems, parents across the country exploded in rage at.

2102
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:13,280
Speaker 9: Local school boards.

2103
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:18,200
Speaker 10: Reuters reported on one meaning that turned violent in Loudon County, Virginia.

2104
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 24: What had been planned as a typical school board meeting

2105
01:46:24,120 --> 01:46:28,760
Speaker 24: in Virginia's wealthy Louden County this week devolved into pandemonium,

2106
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:36,120
Speaker 24: with hundreds of parents flooding an auditorium to accuse the

2107
01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:39,839
Speaker 24: school system of teaching their kids that racism in America

2108
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:43,840
Speaker 24: is structural and systemic, something the school board denies is

2109
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 24: part of the curriculum. Things got so heated that the

2110
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:50,800
Speaker 24: board members eventually walked out, leaving the police to deal

2111
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:51,960
Speaker 24: with the unruly crowd.

2112
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 3: Two people left in handcuffs.

2113
01:46:56,000 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 24: First Louden Counties school Board has been roiled for months

2114
01:47:02,120 --> 01:47:06,080
Speaker 24: by accusations that it has embraced critical race theory, a

2115
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:09,320
Speaker 24: school of thought that maintains that racism is ingrained in

2116
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:13,479
Speaker 24: US law and institutions, and that legacies of slavery and

2117
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:17,920
Speaker 24: segregation have created an uneven playing field for black Americans.

2118
01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:22,439
Speaker 24: The idea that CRT, as it's known, is infiltrating public

2119
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:26,640
Speaker 24: schools has become a rallying cry for conservatives, who, like

2120
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,720
Speaker 24: many in Louden, say it is being used to indoctrin

2121
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 24: eight children that America is a racist country.

2122
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:36,880
Speaker 4: Critical race theory is anti white, and it's not American.

2123
01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:40,600
Speaker 22: Those within a year for historical rhymes may find this

2124
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:45,639
Speaker 22: outcry familiar. Resistance to racial integration and the Civil rights

2125
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 22: era movements drue similar accusations of being hostile to whites

2126
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 22: and being a product of anti American communism, and those

2127
01:47:53,240 --> 01:47:56,760
Speaker 22: with experienced teaching students might chuckle at the accusations of

2128
01:47:56,840 --> 01:48:02,240
Speaker 22: ideologically motivated brainwashing and indoctrinaisation. A common joke posted by

2129
01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:06,080
Speaker 22: teachers online is that quote, if we could indoctrinate students,

2130
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:09,960
Speaker 22: students would always read the syllabus. But that didn't stop

2131
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 22: panic over CRT expanding to include anti LGBTQ sentiment as well,

2132
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:18,880
Speaker 22: with queer students and teachers who supported them being placed

2133
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 22: squarely in the crosshairs of a well funded national hate

2134
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:26,599
Speaker 22: machine dedicated to ginning up fear among local parents. Here's

2135
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:30,120
Speaker 22: a clip from one speech I personally witnessed at the

2136
01:48:30,240 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 22: school board meeting of my hometown school district, grape Vine, Kullyville,

2137
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,320
Speaker 22: from August twenty twenty two and bryce simple truths.

2138
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:40,320
Speaker 16: There's only two genders and boys should go to boys rooms,

2139
01:48:40,560 --> 01:48:42,840
Speaker 16: girls should go to girls bressrooms.

2140
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:46,800
Speaker 13: And guess what teachers should be forced to use your freaking.

2141
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 7: Made up fantasy pronouns.

2142
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:53,000
Speaker 9: Find like hell, hold the line against the LGBT mafia

2143
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 9: and their.

2144
01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:56,400
Speaker 3: Dang pedo fans.

2145
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:00,439
Speaker 14: Keith winning, you know what, keep the winnan, keep the

2146
01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 14: monkey cocks.

2147
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:02,719
Speaker 9: How's that working?

2148
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:06,040
Speaker 3: That king rings so much? Will can come?

2149
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:06,519
Speaker 20: You know what?

2150
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 2: We're gonna keck come so hard?

2151
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:11,160
Speaker 3: The only thing these will cards have to figure out is.

2152
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 9: Spoilers all their face, back bone, thighs.

2153
01:49:14,080 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 7: Wow, it's all.

2154
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:20,920
Speaker 22: As absurd as all this may seem, there was something

2155
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:24,640
Speaker 22: to this national phenomenon that was rooted in reality. As

2156
01:49:24,680 --> 01:49:28,160
Speaker 22: of twenty twenty, the United States had become more culturally diverse,

2157
01:49:28,600 --> 01:49:32,840
Speaker 22: racially integrated, and accepting of LGBTQ people than ever before,

2158
01:49:33,479 --> 01:49:37,559
Speaker 22: and our education systems have increasingly reflected that reality. There's

2159
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,120
Speaker 22: also a deep irony to this reaction. Prior to the

2160
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:44,120
Speaker 22: advances of the Civil Rights era and beyond, schools in

2161
01:49:44,160 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 22: the United States have often been the centers of ideologically

2162
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:52,600
Speaker 22: motivated education, but not the fantasy Bolshevik propaganda that outrages

2163
01:49:52,640 --> 01:49:52,920
Speaker 22: the right.

2164
01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:55,160
Speaker 25: In fact, it's usually been the opposite.

2165
01:49:55,800 --> 01:49:59,480
Speaker 22: For most of its history, American public schools have effectively

2166
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:04,880
Speaker 22: advanced white supremacy, female subordination, and submission to capitalism. In

2167
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 22: this episode, we're going to look at what has actually

2168
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:10,000
Speaker 22: been taught in American schools over the years, with a

2169
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:13,519
Speaker 22: particular focus in Texas, and how what you learn about

2170
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:16,839
Speaker 22: American history depends on where you live and how Christian

2171
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 22: supremacists are successfully inserting their theology into school curriculums in

2172
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:24,639
Speaker 22: much of the country, with Texas playing a leading role.

2173
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:29,400
Speaker 10: Textbooks before the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties Civil rights

2174
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:35,479
Speaker 10: era were explicitly and astonishingly white supremacists. Schoolbooks in the South,

2175
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 10: for instance, portrayed Confederates as gallant gentlemen fighting for a

2176
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:43,400
Speaker 10: noble loss cause. This influenced popular culture, as we see

2177
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:46,880
Speaker 10: in films like Gone with the Wind. Meanwhile, school kids

2178
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:49,639
Speaker 10: were taught that abolitionists who wanted to end slavery before

2179
01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 10: the Civil War were terrorists who needlessly plunged the country

2180
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:56,799
Speaker 10: into Civil war, and this too steeped into the public

2181
01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:01,160
Speaker 10: imagination of movies like Santa Fe Trail starring Van Heflin.

2182
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:04,599
Speaker 4: The Time is Coming when the rest of us are

2183
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:06,840
Speaker 4: going to wipe you and you're kind off the face

2184
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 4: of the earth.

2185
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:15,160
Speaker 10: According to the miss promoted first in schools, then echoed

2186
01:51:15,200 --> 01:51:19,000
Speaker 10: in mass entertainment, slavery would have gone away eventually if

2187
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:21,920
Speaker 10: only white slave owning Southerners had been left alone to

2188
01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:26,080
Speaker 10: figure it out themselves. Screenplaywriters, how often echoed what they

2189
01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:27,040
Speaker 10: heard in the classroom.

2190
01:51:27,160 --> 01:51:27,639
Speaker 9: Is we see?

2191
01:51:27,680 --> 01:51:31,080
Speaker 10: In this scene from the nineteen forty film Santa Fe Trail,

2192
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:35,599
Speaker 10: here Raymond Massey plays John Brown, a white abolitionist who

2193
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:38,640
Speaker 10: tried to start a slave rebellion Harper's Ferry, Virginia in

2194
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 10: eighteen fifty nine. Massey portrays them as a thoroughly crazed maniac,

2195
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:48,400
Speaker 10: while Aero Flynn depicts future Confederate General J. E. B.

2196
01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:50,559
Speaker 10: Stewart as sweetly rational.

2197
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:53,479
Speaker 18: Half the people in America believe in your theory, a

2198
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:56,200
Speaker 18: lot of them, even Condonia methods that'll guarantee you a

2199
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:59,479
Speaker 18: public trial, not.

2200
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:01,160
Speaker 25: On trial, but the nation itself.

2201
01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:05,160
Speaker 8: Are you too stupid and blinded by a uniform to

2202
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:08,840
Speaker 8: see what I see? A dark and evil curse laying

2203
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:12,400
Speaker 8: all over this land. A kind will sin against God

2204
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:15,280
Speaker 8: can only be wiped out in blood.

2205
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:18,599
Speaker 18: But why in blood. The people of Virginia are considered

2206
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:21,559
Speaker 18: a resolution to abolished slavery for a long time. They

2207
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,400
Speaker 18: sensed that the tomorrow wrong and the rest of the

2208
01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 18: South will follow Virginia's example. All I ask is time.

2209
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:32,800
Speaker 22: From the eighteen eighties until the nineteen sixties, school books

2210
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:37,000
Speaker 22: depicted the country's only brief experiment with multiracial democracy at

2211
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:40,600
Speaker 22: the time, the Reconstruction period from eighteen sixty five to

2212
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:44,920
Speaker 22: eighteen seventy seven, as a time of rampant corruption. These

2213
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:49,680
Speaker 22: books often described emancipated African Americans as ignorant, lazy, and

2214
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:54,479
Speaker 22: expecting government handouts, while their white allies were portrayed as crooks.

2215
01:52:55,560 --> 01:52:59,040
Speaker 10: American school children furthermore learned from their teachers that so

2216
01:52:59,200 --> 01:53:03,280
Speaker 10: called radical democracy was not a good idea, and sometimes

2217
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:07,600
Speaker 10: dictatorship was the better option. The nineteen twenty four textbook

2218
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:11,480
Speaker 10: Are World Today and Yesterday, a History of Modern Civilization,

2219
01:53:12,120 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 10: published two years after Mussolini's fascist government took over Italy,

2220
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:20,439
Speaker 10: had nothing but praise for that nation's new dictator. The

2221
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:24,080
Speaker 10: authors told the impressionable high school students the following about

2222
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:25,759
Speaker 10: the world's first fascist leader.

2223
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:29,840
Speaker 26: Mussolini has chosen a ministry made up of capable men

2224
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:33,880
Speaker 26: and has straightened up the badly demoralized finances of the country.

2225
01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:37,760
Speaker 26: He and his followers are accused of suppressing liberty and

2226
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:43,120
Speaker 26: downing the Communists by violence. Nevertheless, he has done much

2227
01:53:43,360 --> 01:53:46,760
Speaker 26: to do away with strikes and to re establish conditions

2228
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:51,559
Speaker 26: as they were before the economic demoralization of World War

2229
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:54,120
Speaker 26: One set in Again.

2230
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:57,400
Speaker 22: School books reinforced an American culture in the nineteen twenties

2231
01:53:57,479 --> 01:54:00,759
Speaker 22: that responded to the horrors of World War One, labor unrest,

2232
01:54:01,120 --> 01:54:03,800
Speaker 22: and the impact of immigration by becoming not only more

2233
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:07,000
Speaker 22: intolerant but also more anti democratic.

2234
01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:11,680
Speaker 27: All the while, Mussolini's propaganda machine churned out images of

2235
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 27: a thriving country and a VIAU leader Beluche stripped down

2236
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:18,679
Speaker 27: for the camera book side by side with the peasants

2237
01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:22,479
Speaker 27: and wrestled wild animals, never mind that this one had

2238
01:54:22,560 --> 01:54:28,320
Speaker 27: no teeth. Nonetheless, it was working. Mussolini attracted fans worldwide,

2239
01:54:28,680 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 27: including Thomas Edison, Sigmund Freud, and Mohandas Gandhi. Here he

2240
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:36,440
Speaker 27: speaks to as many supporters among Italian Americans.

2241
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:42,800
Speaker 20: I tell it the Italians of America who I want

2242
01:54:43,040 --> 01:54:44,440
Speaker 20: to make America greed.

2243
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,800
Speaker 10: Another textbook published in nineteen thirty five, The Record of

2244
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 10: America told Stins that the so called Founding Fathers like

2245
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:57,080
Speaker 10: Alexander Hamilton were not big believers in democracy, an attitude

2246
01:54:57,160 --> 01:54:59,880
Speaker 10: the authors seemed to endorse. As the Record of the

2247
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:00,840
Speaker 10: America put.

2248
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:03,800
Speaker 26: It, the Founders had little faith in the ability of

2249
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:07,600
Speaker 26: people as a whole to maintain self control and wisdom

2250
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:12,080
Speaker 26: in government. They had no confidence in the man without property.

2251
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:16,200
Speaker 26: A man who had failed to accumulate property would be

2252
01:55:16,360 --> 01:55:21,360
Speaker 26: regarded as shiftless, lazy, or incompetent, and not deserving a

2253
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 26: voice in the government of others. The Constitution was written

2254
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:30,160
Speaker 26: to retain power in the hands of those who released

2255
01:55:30,320 --> 01:55:33,879
Speaker 26: radical and to set obstacles in the way of radical

2256
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 26: mob action.

2257
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:38,680
Speaker 22: After the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties civil rights movements.

2258
01:55:39,240 --> 01:55:42,480
Speaker 22: History textbooks for the first time covered the horrors of slavery,

2259
01:55:42,720 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 22: the heroism of African American abolitionists like Surgeon or truth

2260
01:55:46,560 --> 01:55:49,120
Speaker 22: in Frederick Douglas, and the evils of the Ku Klux

2261
01:55:49,160 --> 01:55:54,960
Speaker 22: Klan with clarity. But the backlash was swift, particularly after

2262
01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:58,320
Speaker 22: the election of the first African American President, Barack Obama

2263
01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:02,040
Speaker 22: and the rise of the High Conservative Tea Party in response.

2264
01:56:12,160 --> 01:56:15,320
Speaker 22: In twenty ten, TEA Party supporters took control of the

2265
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 22: Texas State School Board, which has control over Texas school

2266
01:56:20,120 --> 01:56:23,880
Speaker 22: book curriculums. They felt that this reckoning with America's racist

2267
01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:28,400
Speaker 22: past undermined patriotism and demanded a rewrite of school lesson plans.

2268
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:32,320
Speaker 10: In twenty fifteen, Ronnie Dean Baron got a text from

2269
01:56:32,360 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 10: her son, Kobe, who was glancing at a ninth grade

2270
01:56:35,960 --> 01:56:39,040
Speaker 10: geography textbook published by McGraw hill signed him by his

2271
01:56:39,160 --> 01:56:43,480
Speaker 10: high school in Perilyn, Texas, near Houston. He sent her

2272
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:48,040
Speaker 10: a video highlighting a map in its shocking caption. Soon

2273
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:54,200
Speaker 10: Burn posted her son's video online. That video, as KPRC reported,

2274
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:56,160
Speaker 10: spread outrage across the nation.

2275
01:56:56,480 --> 01:57:00,120
Speaker 28: A video post on Ronnie dan Buren's Facebook page, I'm

2276
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:00,320
Speaker 28: going to.

2277
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:02,680
Speaker 5: Show you the book and then there's just an interesting.

2278
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,840
Speaker 28: Section, went viral. Her video has been viewed more than

2279
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:09,320
Speaker 28: one point eight million times and has forty eight thousand shares.

2280
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:13,000
Speaker 28: To get to the topic of conversation, you literally have

2281
01:57:13,120 --> 01:57:16,760
Speaker 28: to turn through the pages of her son's geography textbook.

2282
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:18,920
Speaker 3: The immigration in the United States can be divided in

2283
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 3: four district periods.

2284
01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:22,840
Speaker 28: Kobe, who's in the ninth grade, at Perlin High School

2285
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:25,480
Speaker 28: was studying immigration when he read this in his textbook,

2286
01:57:25,600 --> 01:57:29,560
Speaker 28: a comment that referenced African slaves as workers.

2287
01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:31,920
Speaker 19: As if we worked our way up in America, as

2288
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:35,240
Speaker 19: if we came here by choice for a better life.

2289
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:39,800
Speaker 22: The offensive caption read, in full quote, the Atlantic slave

2290
01:57:39,920 --> 01:57:43,000
Speaker 22: trade between the fifteen hundreds and the eighteen hundreds brought

2291
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 22: millions of workers from Africa to the southern United States

2292
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:51,440
Speaker 22: to work on agricultural plantations. The publisher of the book,

2293
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:56,560
Speaker 22: simply titled World Geography later apologized for the euphemism, noting

2294
01:57:56,640 --> 01:57:59,760
Speaker 22: that it did not adequately convey that Africans were both

2295
01:58:00,360 --> 01:58:04,040
Speaker 22: into migration and to labor against their will as slaves.

2296
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:07,080
Speaker 22: The company said it would revise the digital version of

2297
01:58:07,160 --> 01:58:10,480
Speaker 22: the text and future print versions, but it was unclear

2298
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:13,120
Speaker 22: at the time when the new edition would be in students' hands.

2299
01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:17,240
Speaker 10: The caption wasn't an accident. McGraw hill had given the

2300
01:58:17,280 --> 01:58:20,560
Speaker 10: Stay of Texas what it wanted, rather than anything like

2301
01:58:20,640 --> 01:58:24,080
Speaker 10: critical race theory. The State Board of Education twenty ten

2302
01:58:24,160 --> 01:58:28,440
Speaker 10: adopted changes in Texas curriculum standards for public schools known

2303
01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:32,960
Speaker 10: as Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills that imposed a whitewash

2304
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:37,720
Speaker 10: of American slavery, raised doubts about human cause climate change,

2305
01:58:38,120 --> 01:58:42,000
Speaker 10: and imposed other right wing content. To be sold in

2306
01:58:42,120 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 10: Texas school textbooks had to meet the board's standards.

2307
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:49,000
Speaker 22: Texas State Board of Education members are elected from districts

2308
01:58:49,080 --> 01:58:51,600
Speaker 22: that tilt the body towards rural parts of the state

2309
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:55,360
Speaker 22: and serve four year terms, while the governor appoints the

2310
01:58:55,480 --> 01:58:57,800
Speaker 22: chair of the board. Since the beginning of the twenty

2311
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:01,640
Speaker 22: first century, the board has been dominated by Christian right activists.

2312
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:04,760
Speaker 22: As a twenty thirteen PBS report notts.

2313
01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:08,160
Speaker 17: Don McLeroy has three jobs and he loves them all.

2314
01:59:08,920 --> 01:59:10,520
Speaker 17: Good Morning, doctor mclroy's offices.

2315
01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 20: Job number one, dentist, Job number two Sunday school teacher,

2316
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 20: and job number three member of the Texas State Board

2317
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 20: of Education, a seat he's held for the last twelve years.

2318
01:59:25,640 --> 01:59:28,320
Speaker 17: But it's that third job which has put this dentist

2319
01:59:28,400 --> 01:59:31,920
Speaker 17: and Sunday school teacher from Brian, Texas into a national

2320
01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:35,280
Speaker 17: debate over what kids are taught in school. Critics have

2321
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:40,280
Speaker 17: accused McLeroy of injecting his religious conservative beliefs into the curriculum.

2322
01:59:41,080 --> 01:59:44,520
Speaker 17: About every ten years, the board revises the textbook standards

2323
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:48,040
Speaker 17: for different subjects. Any books bought by the state must

2324
01:59:48,120 --> 01:59:52,000
Speaker 17: conform to these guidelines. The last big battle was over

2325
01:59:52,240 --> 01:59:57,080
Speaker 17: the science standards. This year he's tackling social studies.

2326
01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 10: The demand's Texas makes of texts book publishers matter, as

2327
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:03,240
Speaker 10: PBS reported a decade ago.

2328
02:00:03,760 --> 02:00:07,680
Speaker 17: According to publishing insiders, textbooks are often tailored to fit

2329
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 17: Texas's standards because Texas is the largest buyer of textbooks.

2330
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:16,200
Speaker 17: That means the choices made here could determine books that

2331
02:00:16,320 --> 02:00:19,160
Speaker 17: other states will buy, and that's led to a school

2332
02:00:19,240 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 17: fight that has the entire country looking on.

2333
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:25,720
Speaker 10: This is how Kobe Burn ended up with the World

2334
02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:29,919
Speaker 10: Geography textbook that used the word workers to describe chattel slaves.

2335
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:34,600
Speaker 10: Kathy Miller of the anti censorship group Texas Freedom Network

2336
02:00:34,760 --> 02:00:38,400
Speaker 10: said quote, it's no accident that this happened in Texas.

2337
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:42,320
Speaker 10: We have a textbook adoption process that's so politicized and

2338
02:00:42,440 --> 02:00:46,880
Speaker 10: so flawed that's become almost a punchline for comedians. Those

2339
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:48,880
Speaker 10: serious about education aren't laughing.

2340
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:49,320
Speaker 9: However.

2341
02:00:49,880 --> 02:00:53,360
Speaker 10: In twenty eighteen, the state board removed Hillary Clinton, the

2342
02:00:53,440 --> 02:00:56,800
Speaker 10: first woman to be presidential nominee of a major political party,

2343
02:00:57,120 --> 02:01:00,320
Speaker 10: from the list of major historical figures Texas students must

2344
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:05,120
Speaker 10: learn about, a decision later reversed after embarrassing news coverage.

2345
02:01:06,040 --> 02:01:09,160
Speaker 10: In twenty ten, that board mandated that textbooks depict the

2346
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:13,320
Speaker 10: Civil War as primarily a struggle over states' rights and

2347
02:01:13,440 --> 02:01:16,400
Speaker 10: not slavery, a choice that was later modified in twenty

2348
02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:20,880
Speaker 10: eighteen to return slavery as the primary cause, but still

2349
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:25,560
Speaker 10: maintained that quote states rights and sexualism were key contributing factors.

2350
02:01:26,520 --> 02:01:29,800
Speaker 10: Approved books still tell students that segregated black schools and

2351
02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:33,680
Speaker 10: the Jim crow Eric quote had similar buildings, buses, and

2352
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:37,520
Speaker 10: teachers as white schools, maintaining a hint of these separate

2353
02:01:37,600 --> 02:01:43,160
Speaker 10: but equal logics that upheld segregation. One textbook included cartoon

2354
02:01:43,240 --> 02:01:45,720
Speaker 10: in which a space alien lands on Earth and asks

2355
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:48,320
Speaker 10: if he's eligible for affirmative action programs.

2356
02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:52,560
Speaker 22: Texas standards also misled students into thinking there was controversy

2357
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 22: about whether human activity has led to climate change and

2358
02:01:56,080 --> 02:02:00,480
Speaker 22: to quote consider all sides of scientific evidence regarding evolution,

2359
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:04,400
Speaker 22: even though the scientific consensus in favor of fossil fuels

2360
02:02:04,440 --> 02:02:08,720
Speaker 22: trinking climate change and also the scientific consensus regarding evolution

2361
02:02:09,360 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 22: is nearly unanimous.

2362
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:15,640
Speaker 10: Students can get dramatically different versions of American history based

2363
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 10: on which state they attend schools. A New York Times

2364
02:02:19,240 --> 02:02:23,680
Speaker 10: comparison textbooks used in California, Texas show that both versions

2365
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:27,320
Speaker 10: of the same history textbook include an annotated Bill of

2366
02:02:27,480 --> 02:02:31,680
Speaker 10: Rights in reference to the Second Amendment. However, the California

2367
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:35,640
Speaker 10: textbook notes that several federal court rulings have allowed regulation

2368
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:39,560
Speaker 10: of gun sales and ownership. The Texas version of the

2369
02:02:39,600 --> 02:02:44,040
Speaker 10: same book replaces US commentary with a quote blank white space.

2370
02:02:44,360 --> 02:02:45,640
Speaker 10: As The New York Times.

2371
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:50,320
Speaker 22: Reported, Texas and California textbooks both introduced students to African

2372
02:02:50,360 --> 02:02:54,320
Speaker 22: American authors during the Harlem Renaissance, but only Texas students

2373
02:02:54,360 --> 02:02:58,400
Speaker 22: are told that quote. Some dismissed the quality of the

2374
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 22: literature produced by.

2375
02:03:00,560 --> 02:03:02,760
Speaker 7: The Harlem Renaissance, as.

2376
02:03:02,680 --> 02:03:05,000
Speaker 10: The New York Times reported, The California version of the

2377
02:03:05,080 --> 02:03:08,880
Speaker 10: history textbook addressed the issue of white flight, the phenomena

2378
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:13,120
Speaker 10: whereby parents moved from cities when schools became integrated and

2379
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:17,920
Speaker 10: moved to overwhelmingly Anglo suburbs. The California textbooks said this.

2380
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:21,640
Speaker 26: Some people wished to escape the crime and the congestion

2381
02:03:21,840 --> 02:03:25,520
Speaker 26: of the city. Movement of some white people from cities

2382
02:03:25,680 --> 02:03:29,400
Speaker 26: to suburbs was driven by a desire to get away

2383
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:34,640
Speaker 26: from more culturally diverse neighborhoods. Others believed the suburbs offered

2384
02:03:34,720 --> 02:03:36,880
Speaker 26: better and more affordable living.

2385
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:40,640
Speaker 10: The Texas version of the same textbook deleted the sentence

2386
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:43,600
Speaker 10: referring to racism as a motive for white flight, but

2387
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:47,320
Speaker 10: left the reference to a fear of crime, reframing what

2388
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:50,880
Speaker 10: students learned about why suburbs grew so rapidly after World

2389
02:03:50,920 --> 02:03:55,040
Speaker 10: War Two. The Texas State Board also specifically asked one

2390
02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:59,240
Speaker 10: textbook publisher demphasized how many clergies signed the Declaration of

2391
02:03:59,320 --> 02:04:03,480
Speaker 10: Independence and to underscore the disposed importance of religion to

2392
02:04:03,560 --> 02:04:07,600
Speaker 10: the founders. These particular demands were the result of intense

2393
02:04:07,720 --> 02:04:11,680
Speaker 10: lobbying by Texas Christian nationalist David Barton.

2394
02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:16,600
Speaker 22: Barton, a seventy year old lifelong resident of Aledo, Texas,

2395
02:04:17,240 --> 02:04:19,920
Speaker 22: which is a small town just southwest of Fort Worth,

2396
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 22: has become a major influence on the Republican Party and

2397
02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:27,560
Speaker 22: its attitudes towards education, not just in the Lone Star state,

2398
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:32,120
Speaker 22: but across the nation. While reporting on the Conservative Political

2399
02:04:32,200 --> 02:04:35,200
Speaker 22: Action Conference for Rolling Stone, I recall being given a

2400
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:39,160
Speaker 22: copy of one of Barton's books, he calls himself a historian,

2401
02:04:39,560 --> 02:04:43,440
Speaker 22: although his only credential is a bachelor's degree in religious

2402
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:48,480
Speaker 22: education from Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma. A one

2403
02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 22: time science and math teacher at a Christian academy in

2404
02:04:51,360 --> 02:04:54,760
Speaker 22: his hometown, Barton plunged into politics in nineteen eighty eight

2405
02:04:55,120 --> 02:04:58,480
Speaker 22: as a Republican activist with a penchant for homophobia. He

2406
02:04:58,600 --> 02:05:02,160
Speaker 22: declared that homosexuality is as evil as any deed Adolf

2407
02:05:02,240 --> 02:05:05,600
Speaker 22: Hitler committed, and said that the lack of cure for

2408
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:10,200
Speaker 22: AIDS was God's punishment for a wicked community. Quote your

2409
02:05:10,240 --> 02:05:12,480
Speaker 22: sexual choice is not a God given right, he said

2410
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:13,240
Speaker 22: on one occasion.

2411
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:18,440
Speaker 10: In nineteen eighty eight, Barton founded Wall Builders, a nonprofit.

2412
02:05:18,560 --> 02:05:22,959
Speaker 10: The organization says dedicated to quote educating the nation concerning

2413
02:05:23,080 --> 02:05:27,360
Speaker 10: the godly founding of the nation. Barton believes that Americans

2414
02:05:27,440 --> 02:05:29,680
Speaker 10: have been deceived about the true meaning of the First

2415
02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:33,720
Speaker 10: Amendment to the United States Constitution, which declares, quote, Congress

2416
02:05:33,800 --> 02:05:37,200
Speaker 10: shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion.

2417
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:41,880
Speaker 10: The founders, Barton claims, only meant that Congress should pick

2418
02:05:41,960 --> 02:05:46,960
Speaker 10: a particular Protestant denomination as the national faith. Barton also

2419
02:05:47,120 --> 02:05:50,280
Speaker 10: argues that Thomas Jefferson meant that the wall of separation

2420
02:05:50,440 --> 02:05:54,160
Speaker 10: between church and state should operate only in one direction,

2421
02:05:54,840 --> 02:05:57,600
Speaker 10: that the government should not interfere with a religion, but

2422
02:05:57,720 --> 02:06:01,120
Speaker 10: that Christians should dominate the government. As Barton said in

2423
02:06:01,160 --> 02:06:02,520
Speaker 10: an interview, so.

2424
02:06:02,880 --> 02:06:04,840
Speaker 29: We've got to get away from from being scared to

2425
02:06:04,840 --> 02:06:06,760
Speaker 29: say we're a Christian nation. What we've got to do

2426
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:09,240
Speaker 29: is define it the right way, define it the historical way.

2427
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:13,160
Speaker 29: We can't let the left steal three hundred years of heritage.

2428
02:06:13,360 --> 02:06:15,760
Speaker 29: We can't let them wipe out three hundred core cases,

2429
02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:18,600
Speaker 29: wipe out what dozens of presents and governors have said

2430
02:06:18,680 --> 02:06:21,640
Speaker 29: simply because they don't like the term. We are a

2431
02:06:21,720 --> 02:06:24,320
Speaker 29: Christian nation. We have been a Christian nation, and that

2432
02:06:24,440 --> 02:06:27,640
Speaker 29: doesn't mean anything they think it does. We're not theocratic,

2433
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:31,320
Speaker 29: we're not coercive. We believe in free choice. We don't

2434
02:06:31,320 --> 02:06:33,280
Speaker 29: believe in any of the others. And that's what we've

2435
02:06:33,280 --> 02:06:34,720
Speaker 29: got to get back to doing. We don't need to

2436
02:06:34,760 --> 02:06:36,840
Speaker 29: be ashamed at all that we're Christians and that we

2437
02:06:36,960 --> 02:06:38,120
Speaker 29: believe we have a Christian nation.

2438
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:41,960
Speaker 22: The story is much more complicated than Barton says, and

2439
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:44,960
Speaker 22: he gets the most important details wrong. Most of the

2440
02:06:45,040 --> 02:06:48,680
Speaker 22: generation that led the Revolution and wrote the Constitution, agreed

2441
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:51,880
Speaker 22: with Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence,

2442
02:06:52,440 --> 02:06:56,600
Speaker 22: that when church and state mix, both are harmed. Jefferson

2443
02:06:56,640 --> 02:06:59,480
Speaker 22: successfully established separation of church and state in his home

2444
02:06:59,560 --> 02:07:03,040
Speaker 22: state of Virginia in seventeen eighty six when it adopted

2445
02:07:03,080 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 22: the Statute of Religious Freedom he authored. The First Amendment,

2446
02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:10,080
Speaker 22: adopted in seventeen eighty nine, also banned Congress from quote

2447
02:07:10,160 --> 02:07:13,720
Speaker 22: establishing a religion, and most states embraced, to varying degrees,

2448
02:07:14,160 --> 02:07:15,960
Speaker 22: the doctrine of church state separation.

2449
02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:20,440
Speaker 10: There were some states that objected to this notion. The

2450
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:24,800
Speaker 10: state governments of Connecticut and Massachusetts, for instance, initially interpreted

2451
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:28,320
Speaker 10: the First Amendment as meaning only Congress could not establish.

2452
02:07:28,040 --> 02:07:29,240
Speaker 7: Religion, but states could.

2453
02:07:30,040 --> 02:07:33,200
Speaker 10: Citizens of those two states paid taxes that supported the

2454
02:07:33,280 --> 02:07:38,440
Speaker 10: Congregationalist Church, respectively until eighteen eighteen. In eighteen thirty three,

2455
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:42,200
Speaker 10: for decades, some states had so called quote jew laws

2456
02:07:42,640 --> 02:07:46,560
Speaker 10: that prohibited non Christians from holding office or had similar

2457
02:07:46,640 --> 02:07:50,480
Speaker 10: bands on Catholics. Such laws were the exception, however, and

2458
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:53,400
Speaker 10: fell by the wayside by the end of the nineteenth century.

2459
02:07:54,080 --> 02:07:57,440
Speaker 10: The Fourteenth Amendment adopted in eighteen sixty eight placed the

2460
02:07:57,560 --> 02:08:00,400
Speaker 10: same limits on state power. There are plaed on the

2461
02:08:00,440 --> 02:08:04,520
Speaker 10: federal government regarding the establishment of religion, a limitation upheld

2462
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:07,920
Speaker 10: in the nineteen forty seven Supreme Court case. Ever since

2463
02:08:08,040 --> 02:08:09,720
Speaker 10: versus Board of Education.

2464
02:08:10,120 --> 02:08:13,200
Speaker 22: Artin has campaigned to overwrite that history with his own

2465
02:08:13,320 --> 02:08:18,160
Speaker 22: alternative narrative. Towards that end, he's collected approximately one hundred

2466
02:08:18,240 --> 02:08:22,760
Speaker 22: thousand primary documents written before eighteen twelve. Based on that

2467
02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:27,560
Speaker 22: selection of material, he argues that American leaders like Washington, Jefferson, Adams,

2468
02:08:27,640 --> 02:08:30,960
Speaker 22: and their peers wanted only Christians to lead the nation,

2469
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:34,160
Speaker 22: and that American law should be based on the Bible.

2470
02:08:34,720 --> 02:08:37,600
Speaker 10: Art believes that not just the Bible, but also the

2471
02:08:37,720 --> 02:08:43,240
Speaker 10: original United States Constitution, which includes provisions protecting slavery such

2472
02:08:43,280 --> 02:08:47,400
Speaker 10: as the Three Fifths Compromise, were directly inspired by God.

2473
02:08:48,200 --> 02:08:52,000
Speaker 10: He asserts, again with no evidence and without defining terms,

2474
02:08:52,520 --> 02:08:55,120
Speaker 10: that fifty two of the fifty five signers of the

2475
02:08:55,200 --> 02:08:59,080
Speaker 10: Declaration of Independence were, in his words, quote orthodox or

2476
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:05,560
Speaker 10: evenangelical Christians. In reality, the early leaders of America didn't

2477
02:09:05,560 --> 02:09:08,960
Speaker 10: speak with one mind regarding religion. Many were deists who

2478
02:09:09,040 --> 02:09:12,160
Speaker 10: saw God not as a deity, invested in the daily

2479
02:09:12,320 --> 02:09:16,680
Speaker 10: lives of humans, but as a dispassionate clockmaker who put

2480
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:20,040
Speaker 10: the gears the universe together, wound it up, and let

2481
02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:23,400
Speaker 10: it run on its own. Their God didn't intervene in

2482
02:09:23,560 --> 02:09:28,240
Speaker 10: history or perform miracle healings at spiritual revivals. When Ben

2483
02:09:28,320 --> 02:09:31,560
Speaker 10: Franklin proposed opening the first session the seventeen eighty seven

2484
02:09:31,640 --> 02:09:35,880
Speaker 10: Constitutional Convention with a prayer, the proposal was voted down,

2485
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:39,840
Speaker 10: with only four approving Franklin's motion, and a gathering that

2486
02:09:39,920 --> 02:09:42,680
Speaker 10: as many as fifty five attended on any given day.

2487
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:47,040
Speaker 22: In their letters, many of the Founding Fathers scoffed at

2488
02:09:47,040 --> 02:09:49,720
Speaker 22: the accuracy of the Bible and the reliability of its

2489
02:09:49,840 --> 02:09:53,840
Speaker 22: myriad translations. As John Adams said of the Bible.

2490
02:09:54,080 --> 02:09:59,760
Speaker 25: In an age when fraud, forgery, and perjury were considered

2491
02:09:59,760 --> 02:10:06,600
Speaker 25: as lawful means of propagating truth by philosophers, legislators, and theologians,

2492
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:09,320
Speaker 25: what may not be suspected.

2493
02:10:10,040 --> 02:10:14,080
Speaker 22: Benjamin Franklin told his friend Ezra Styles that Jesus was

2494
02:10:14,080 --> 02:10:16,960
Speaker 22: a wise philosopher, but that he had personal doubts that

2495
02:10:17,120 --> 02:10:20,080
Speaker 22: Christ was the son of God. Franklin questioned whether the

2496
02:10:20,160 --> 02:10:22,960
Speaker 22: depiction of Christ's life or even his teachings as describing

2497
02:10:23,040 --> 02:10:24,280
Speaker 22: the Gospels could be trusted.

2498
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:28,680
Speaker 25: As to Jesus of Nazareth, I think the system of

2499
02:10:28,840 --> 02:10:32,320
Speaker 25: morals and his religion as he left them to us

2500
02:10:33,120 --> 02:10:36,320
Speaker 25: the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.

2501
02:10:37,160 --> 02:10:42,160
Speaker 25: But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and

2502
02:10:42,280 --> 02:10:45,880
Speaker 25: I have doubt with most of the present dissenters in

2503
02:10:46,000 --> 02:10:50,600
Speaker 25: England as to his divinity, though it is a question

2504
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:54,520
Speaker 25: I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it.

2505
02:10:55,560 --> 02:10:59,400
Speaker 22: And Thomas Jefferson, who Barton insists believe that the American

2506
02:10:59,440 --> 02:11:02,480
Speaker 22: government should be based on Christian values, was even more

2507
02:11:02,520 --> 02:11:06,040
Speaker 22: blunt about a central Christian belief regarding Jesus and his

2508
02:11:06,160 --> 02:11:06,760
Speaker 22: virgin birth.

2509
02:11:07,640 --> 02:11:12,640
Speaker 25: Jefferson wrote, Jesus was a man of illegitimate birth, of

2510
02:11:12,760 --> 02:11:17,360
Speaker 25: a benevolent heart and an enthusiastic mind, who set out

2511
02:11:17,520 --> 02:11:22,000
Speaker 25: without pretensions of divinity, ended in believing them, and was

2512
02:11:22,080 --> 02:11:26,320
Speaker 25: punished capitally for sedition by being gibbeted according to the

2513
02:11:26,440 --> 02:11:26,960
Speaker 25: Roman law.

2514
02:11:27,880 --> 02:11:31,400
Speaker 10: Barton's books and speeches are filled with misquotes and statements

2515
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:35,440
Speaker 10: attributed to historical figures that no credible scholars have been

2516
02:11:35,480 --> 02:11:39,200
Speaker 10: able to find. He cherry picks evidence to Bolster's claims

2517
02:11:39,200 --> 02:11:42,960
Speaker 10: about the founder's religious beliefs. Barton, for instance, made up

2518
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:46,280
Speaker 10: a story that Jefferson started the practice of holding church

2519
02:11:46,360 --> 02:11:50,760
Speaker 10: services in the US Capital. More reputable scholars argue that

2520
02:11:50,920 --> 02:11:54,080
Speaker 10: while there's evidence that Jefferson attended one service held at

2521
02:11:54,120 --> 02:11:58,160
Speaker 10: the Capitol building, there's no evidence that he approved them officially.

2522
02:11:58,960 --> 02:12:02,040
Speaker 10: What's more, Jefferson and was far from an orthodox Christian

2523
02:12:02,480 --> 02:12:06,160
Speaker 10: or the sort of Christian that dominates conservativism today. He

2524
02:12:06,360 --> 02:12:09,480
Speaker 10: edited and published The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth,

2525
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:13,160
Speaker 10: commonly referred to as the Jeffersonian Bible, which is a

2526
02:12:13,240 --> 02:12:16,120
Speaker 10: condensed version of Jesus's teachings from the Bible that excludes

2527
02:12:16,200 --> 02:12:20,200
Speaker 10: all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural,

2528
02:12:20,680 --> 02:12:24,160
Speaker 10: the resurrection, the raising of the dead, and so on.

2529
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:27,800
Speaker 10: These sort of facts are the subject of Barton's twenty

2530
02:12:27,880 --> 02:12:32,640
Speaker 10: twenty two New York Times bestseller, ironically titled The Jefferson Lies,

2531
02:12:33,160 --> 02:12:36,160
Speaker 10: Exposing the Myths You Always believed about Thomas Jefferson.

2532
02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:41,000
Speaker 22: For instance, Barton depicted Jefferson as defining the United States

2533
02:12:41,040 --> 02:12:44,200
Speaker 22: as a Christian nation. Here's the real Jefferson. In his

2534
02:12:44,440 --> 02:12:47,800
Speaker 22: seventeen eighty five book notes on the State of Virginia.

2535
02:12:48,240 --> 02:12:52,760
Speaker 25: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only

2536
02:12:53,200 --> 02:12:56,400
Speaker 25: as are injurious to others. But it does mean no

2537
02:12:56,560 --> 02:12:59,560
Speaker 25: injury for my neighbor to say that there are twenty

2538
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:04,240
Speaker 25: gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor

2539
02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:05,120
Speaker 25: breaks my leg.

2540
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:08,360
Speaker 22: Barton's book on Jefferson went too far for even some

2541
02:13:08,520 --> 02:13:12,600
Speaker 22: of Barton's fellow Christian Conservatives. The History News Network website

2542
02:13:12,680 --> 02:13:15,680
Speaker 22: derided the book as quote the least credible history book

2543
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:20,280
Speaker 22: in print. Ten Christian conservative scholars so harshly criticized Barton's

2544
02:13:20,320 --> 02:13:23,360
Speaker 22: book that his publisher withdrew it from circulation because it

2545
02:13:23,440 --> 02:13:27,120
Speaker 22: had quote lost confidence in the book's details. Yet, in

2546
02:13:27,200 --> 02:13:31,200
Speaker 22: spite of the questions regarding its truthfulness, another evangelical publishing

2547
02:13:31,240 --> 02:13:33,240
Speaker 22: company eventually released a new version.

2548
02:13:43,680 --> 02:13:46,520
Speaker 10: In spite of his flexible relationship with the truth, Barton

2549
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:50,280
Speaker 10: is a major player in Republican Party politics. On a podcast,

2550
02:13:50,400 --> 02:13:54,080
Speaker 10: Barton claimed that Republican US House Speaker Mike Johnson consulted

2551
02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:57,400
Speaker 10: with him about staffing at the Capitol. Johnson made his

2552
02:13:57,440 --> 02:14:00,120
Speaker 10: speech at a wall Builder's event, telling the audience that

2553
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:04,480
Speaker 10: the theocratic evangelists had quote a profound influence on me,

2554
02:14:05,120 --> 02:14:07,520
Speaker 10: my work, my life, and everything I do.

2555
02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:12,040
Speaker 22: Because of Barton's influence, the state of Texas recently okayed

2556
02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:16,640
Speaker 22: public schools teaching Bible stories to kindergarten children. Former Arkansas

2557
02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:20,200
Speaker 22: governor and Republican presidential candidate and Trump's choice to be

2558
02:14:20,240 --> 02:14:24,040
Speaker 22: ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, owns the company that designed

2559
02:14:24,080 --> 02:14:24,920
Speaker 22: those lesson plans.

2560
02:14:25,600 --> 02:14:28,800
Speaker 10: Huckabee has long produced so called history videos for school

2561
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:32,600
Speaker 10: children that promote Christian nationalism and the idea that United

2562
02:14:32,600 --> 02:14:35,680
Speaker 10: States has a unique relationship with God, such as a

2563
02:14:35,800 --> 02:14:38,960
Speaker 10: series aimed at older children called One Nation Under God,

2564
02:14:39,320 --> 02:14:43,800
Speaker 10: which portrays a revolutionary war soldier and George Washington suggesting

2565
02:14:43,920 --> 02:14:45,360
Speaker 10: God was on their side.

2566
02:14:46,560 --> 02:14:49,800
Speaker 30: We will bring the plagues upon our British oppressors, just

2567
02:14:49,920 --> 02:14:53,280
Speaker 30: as Moses did in ancient Egypt, and we will win

2568
02:14:53,400 --> 02:14:54,360
Speaker 30: the same freedom.

2569
02:14:55,800 --> 02:14:58,360
Speaker 3: We fight for the idea that we can make something

2570
02:14:58,520 --> 02:15:02,960
Speaker 3: great here. Spirit compels us forward, and the.

2571
02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:04,600
Speaker 4: Times of writers upon us.

2572
02:15:06,680 --> 02:15:10,080
Speaker 22: This video series may not be shown to kindergarteners in Texas,

2573
02:15:10,200 --> 02:15:13,240
Speaker 22: but the lessons in the Huckabee design curriculum clearly favor

2574
02:15:13,560 --> 02:15:17,040
Speaker 22: a Christian worldview at the expense of other religions. The

2575
02:15:17,080 --> 02:15:20,600
Speaker 22: Scripture field lessons are not required by state law, but

2576
02:15:20,720 --> 02:15:23,680
Speaker 22: the state will reward school districts with extra tax dollars

2577
02:15:23,760 --> 02:15:28,080
Speaker 22: per student for teaching Huckaby's product. This is an attractive

2578
02:15:28,200 --> 02:15:30,240
Speaker 22: offer to the many school districts in Texas that are

2579
02:15:30,320 --> 02:15:33,760
Speaker 22: currently filing deficit budgets and struggling to raise revenue.

2580
02:15:34,240 --> 02:15:38,480
Speaker 10: Meanwhile, Barton's political and cultural influence has grown exponentially over

2581
02:15:38,520 --> 02:15:42,480
Speaker 10: the last decade. One of his political action committees played

2582
02:15:42,480 --> 02:15:45,400
Speaker 10: a major role in getting Ted Cruz elected to the

2583
02:15:45,520 --> 02:15:49,040
Speaker 10: United States Senate. He has close allies with Texas Lieutenant

2584
02:15:49,120 --> 02:15:53,240
Speaker 10: Governor Dan Patrick, who wields power typically held by governors

2585
02:15:53,280 --> 02:15:56,480
Speaker 10: and other states. Patrick said this at a twenty twenty

2586
02:15:56,520 --> 02:16:00,360
Speaker 10: two Conservative political Action convention in Dallas about who he

2587
02:16:00,520 --> 02:16:02,440
Speaker 10: thinks wrote the US Constitution.

2588
02:16:02,880 --> 02:16:05,160
Speaker 13: We were a nation founded upon not the words of

2589
02:16:05,200 --> 02:16:08,960
Speaker 13: our founders, but the words of God. Because he wrote

2590
02:16:08,960 --> 02:16:11,280
Speaker 13: the Constitution, he empowered them.

2591
02:16:12,120 --> 02:16:15,240
Speaker 29: We were a Christian state, and we've been blessed because

2592
02:16:15,280 --> 02:16:15,480
Speaker 29: of that.

2593
02:16:15,560 --> 02:16:16,440
Speaker 25: For so many years.

2594
02:16:17,120 --> 02:16:20,200
Speaker 22: In twenty ten, the Texas State School Board for the

2595
02:16:20,280 --> 02:16:24,879
Speaker 22: first time required that textbook publishers portray a particular Biblical

2596
02:16:24,960 --> 02:16:29,760
Speaker 22: figure as an honorary founding father. This supposed founder was

2597
02:16:30,080 --> 02:16:34,199
Speaker 22: famously portrayed in the nineteen fifty six box office smash

2598
02:16:34,320 --> 02:16:38,039
Speaker 22: by Charlton Heston, who later served as a five term

2599
02:16:38,120 --> 02:16:40,599
Speaker 22: president of the National Rifle Association.

2600
02:16:41,400 --> 02:16:46,560
Speaker 4: Woo unto the you're Israel, you have sinned a great

2601
02:16:46,760 --> 02:16:51,279
Speaker 4: sin in the sight of God. You are not worthy

2602
02:16:51,400 --> 02:16:53,760
Speaker 4: to receive these Ten Commandments.

2603
02:16:54,840 --> 02:16:58,760
Speaker 10: In Texas, regardless of a lack of evidence, textbook publishers

2604
02:16:58,800 --> 02:17:02,359
Speaker 10: are required to tell Stin that Moses, the prophet depicted

2605
02:17:02,400 --> 02:17:05,720
Speaker 10: in Judeo Christian scripture as well as the Qur'an as

2606
02:17:05,800 --> 02:17:09,080
Speaker 10: leading the Hebrews out of slavery, was a major influence

2607
02:17:09,120 --> 02:17:13,359
Speaker 10: on the authors of the Constitution. Furthermore, under Barton's influence,

2608
02:17:13,440 --> 02:17:16,280
Speaker 10: the state of Louisiana enacted a law in June twenty

2609
02:17:16,360 --> 02:17:19,720
Speaker 10: twenty four which requires every public school classroom in the

2610
02:17:19,800 --> 02:17:23,640
Speaker 10: state to prominently display a version of the Ten Commandments

2611
02:17:23,680 --> 02:17:27,400
Speaker 10: for the Book of Exodus, derived from Protestant translations of

2612
02:17:27,480 --> 02:17:31,080
Speaker 10: the Bible. This past November, a federal court issued an

2613
02:17:31,080 --> 02:17:33,440
Speaker 10: injunction barring enforcement.

2614
02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:33,480
Speaker 9: Of the law.

2615
02:17:34,040 --> 02:17:37,680
Speaker 22: With Barton's encouragement, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick fought to get

2616
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:40,640
Speaker 22: a similar bill passed in Texas that would have required

2617
02:17:40,720 --> 02:17:44,200
Speaker 22: every classroom to feature a display of the Ten Commandments

2618
02:17:44,240 --> 02:17:47,640
Speaker 22: at least sixteen inches wide and twenty inches tall, and,

2619
02:17:47,760 --> 02:17:50,320
Speaker 22: as the law put it, quote, in a size and

2620
02:17:50,440 --> 02:17:53,400
Speaker 22: typeface that is legible to a person with average vision

2621
02:17:53,560 --> 02:17:55,279
Speaker 22: from anywhere in the classroom.

2622
02:17:56,120 --> 02:17:57,359
Speaker 7: The bill passed the state.

2623
02:17:57,240 --> 02:18:00,520
Speaker 22: Senate with unanimous Republican support, but died when didn't come

2624
02:18:00,600 --> 02:18:03,400
Speaker 22: before the Texas House in time for a legislative deadline.

2625
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:08,160
Speaker 22: As KVUE in Austin reported, Patrick has vowed to continue

2626
02:18:08,240 --> 02:18:09,960
Speaker 22: his crusade in the coming months.

2627
02:18:10,440 --> 02:18:13,680
Speaker 30: Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick resurrecting a bill to force

2628
02:18:13,760 --> 02:18:17,360
Speaker 30: public schools to display the Ten Commandments in every classroom.

2629
02:18:17,720 --> 02:18:21,760
Speaker 30: That bill was originally proposed during last year's legislative session,

2630
02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:24,520
Speaker 30: but missed a key deadline and died in the House.

2631
02:18:24,959 --> 02:18:29,400
Speaker 30: Louisiana just passed a similar law this week, the Lieutenant

2632
02:18:29,440 --> 02:18:32,920
Speaker 30: governor posting on x saying, quote, Texas would have and

2633
02:18:33,120 --> 02:18:35,920
Speaker 30: should have been the first state in the nation to

2634
02:18:36,040 --> 02:18:39,480
Speaker 30: put the Ten Commandments back in our schools end quote.

2635
02:18:39,800 --> 02:18:42,360
Speaker 30: The Lieutenant governor says he will pass the bill during

2636
02:18:42,560 --> 02:18:44,200
Speaker 30: the next legislative session.

2637
02:18:45,160 --> 02:18:48,360
Speaker 22: Under the Ten Commandments bill, moral codes from other major

2638
02:18:48,480 --> 02:18:51,520
Speaker 22: world religions, such as Hinduism and Buddhism would not be

2639
02:18:51,640 --> 02:18:55,320
Speaker 22: posted in classrooms, presenting a clear case of a state

2640
02:18:55,400 --> 02:18:59,760
Speaker 22: government violating the First Amendment. Princeton historian Kevin Cruz explained

2641
02:18:59,760 --> 02:19:03,000
Speaker 22: by such laws like those signed by Louisiana or Governor

2642
02:19:03,120 --> 02:19:06,000
Speaker 22: Jeff Landry, ignore the United States Constitution.

2643
02:19:06,840 --> 02:19:10,240
Speaker 13: There are three references to religion in the Constitution. All

2644
02:19:10,320 --> 02:19:13,760
Speaker 13: three are ones that keep religion at arm's length away

2645
02:19:13,800 --> 02:19:16,920
Speaker 13: from the state. There is no religious tests required for

2646
02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:20,640
Speaker 13: office forms, a remarkable revolutionary act at the time. The

2647
02:19:20,680 --> 02:19:24,720
Speaker 13: First Amendment says there will be no national religion established

2648
02:19:24,920 --> 02:19:27,600
Speaker 13: by the national government. Says that we will not interfere

2649
02:19:27,720 --> 02:19:30,200
Speaker 13: with your private right to worship or not worship as

2650
02:19:30,200 --> 02:19:30,640
Speaker 13: you see fit.

2651
02:19:30,800 --> 02:19:30,920
Speaker 4: Right.

2652
02:19:31,240 --> 02:19:33,840
Speaker 13: That is what the Constitution says. And so Landry says

2653
02:19:33,879 --> 02:19:36,320
Speaker 13: he wanted to put this up because Moses was the

2654
02:19:36,360 --> 02:19:37,080
Speaker 13: first lawgiver.

2655
02:19:37,360 --> 02:19:37,640
Speaker 5: He's not.

2656
02:19:38,080 --> 02:19:42,000
Speaker 13: The Code of Hamerabi predates Moses by four centuries or something.

2657
02:19:42,879 --> 02:19:44,520
Speaker 13: But also, if you want to look at the real

2658
02:19:44,800 --> 02:19:47,680
Speaker 13: law of the land, put the Constitution up on those walls.

2659
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:50,720
Speaker 13: Let's students read what the real law of this country

2660
02:19:50,800 --> 02:19:53,720
Speaker 13: has to say about the proper role of religion in politics.

2661
02:19:54,680 --> 02:19:58,520
Speaker 10: The history of posting Ten Commandments signs or plaques are

2662
02:19:58,600 --> 02:20:02,080
Speaker 10: building such monuments public spaces over the last seventy years

2663
02:20:02,480 --> 02:20:05,640
Speaker 10: has an origin that might shock many right wing cultural

2664
02:20:05,800 --> 02:20:11,160
Speaker 10: warriors who associate Hollywood with godless liberalism. As Cruise points

2665
02:20:11,160 --> 02:20:13,800
Speaker 10: out in this book One Nation Under God, How Corporate

2666
02:20:13,920 --> 02:20:18,520
Speaker 10: America invented Christian America. The three hour, forty minute epic

2667
02:20:18,640 --> 02:20:21,960
Speaker 10: movie The Ten Commandments was a monster hit and wild

2668
02:20:22,040 --> 02:20:26,039
Speaker 10: audiences with its twenty five thousand member cast and advanced

2669
02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:29,240
Speaker 10: special effects. When it was released in nineteen fifty six,

2670
02:20:30,240 --> 02:20:33,840
Speaker 10: the movie grossed more than eighty five million dollars. The

2671
02:20:33,920 --> 02:20:39,040
Speaker 10: film's politically conservative subtext was unmistakable. The director Cecil B.

2672
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:42,080
Speaker 10: De Mel hated the New Deal and testified to the

2673
02:20:42,160 --> 02:20:47,000
Speaker 10: House un American Activities Committee that communists exercised malign influence

2674
02:20:47,040 --> 02:20:50,360
Speaker 10: over unions, including those in Hollywood, that drove up the

2675
02:20:50,480 --> 02:20:51,480
Speaker 10: cost of filmmaking.

2676
02:20:52,080 --> 02:20:54,440
Speaker 22: The film can be read as a metaphor about the

2677
02:20:54,520 --> 02:20:57,959
Speaker 22: Cold War, with the oppressive Egyptians representing the Soviet Union

2678
02:20:58,120 --> 02:21:01,040
Speaker 22: and the freedom loving Hebrews standing out for the United States.

2679
02:21:01,879 --> 02:21:04,760
Speaker 22: At the beginning of the movie, Demil appears and calls

2680
02:21:04,800 --> 02:21:07,560
Speaker 22: the movie quote the story of the Birth of Freedom,

2681
02:21:08,080 --> 02:21:12,160
Speaker 22: the story of Moses. The movie also captures the racism

2682
02:21:12,240 --> 02:21:15,480
Speaker 22: and ironically, the anti semitism of a country that had

2683
02:21:15,560 --> 02:21:20,160
Speaker 22: not yet emerged from McCarthyism. The historian Alan Nadel tells

2684
02:21:20,240 --> 02:21:23,560
Speaker 22: a revealing story of two cast members in The Ten Commandments.

2685
02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:26,760
Speaker 22: According to the story, during the film's production, Charlton Heston's

2686
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:30,160
Speaker 22: wife became pregnant. Demill then told Heston that if his

2687
02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:32,680
Speaker 22: wife gave birth to a boy, the child would be

2688
02:21:32,800 --> 02:21:36,480
Speaker 22: cast as the baby Moses. When Heston's wife gave birth

2689
02:21:36,600 --> 02:21:40,480
Speaker 22: to a son, Demill sent her a telegram saying congratulations,

2690
02:21:40,680 --> 02:21:41,400
Speaker 22: He's got the part.

2691
02:21:42,240 --> 02:21:45,600
Speaker 10: Meanwhile, an adult actor, Woody Strode appeared in the film

2692
02:21:45,720 --> 02:21:49,800
Speaker 10: in two markedly different roles. A former NFL star who

2693
02:21:49,840 --> 02:21:53,480
Speaker 10: broke the thirteen year informal NFL ban on African American

2694
02:21:53,520 --> 02:21:56,160
Speaker 10: players when he signed with the Los Angeles Rams in

2695
02:21:56,240 --> 02:22:00,240
Speaker 10: nineteen forty six, stro played both an Ethiopian king and

2696
02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:05,040
Speaker 10: the enslaved attendant of Moses's adopted Egyptian mother. Demill thought

2697
02:22:05,080 --> 02:22:08,440
Speaker 10: that the audiences could tell whether a swaddled white baby

2698
02:22:08,600 --> 02:22:11,320
Speaker 10: was a boy or a girl, but apparently assumed they

2699
02:22:11,400 --> 02:22:14,000
Speaker 10: wouldn't notice a black actor playing both a king and

2700
02:22:14,080 --> 02:22:17,160
Speaker 10: a slave because of the racist belief that all black

2701
02:22:17,240 --> 02:22:21,120
Speaker 10: people look alike. Meanwhile, a movie set in ancient Egypt

2702
02:22:21,160 --> 02:22:25,400
Speaker 10: and the Sinai Peninsula featured an almost entirely light skinned cast,

2703
02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:29,560
Speaker 10: even though Demill's mother was Jewish. The only Jewish actor

2704
02:22:29,640 --> 02:22:32,080
Speaker 10: to play a major role was Edward G. Robinson, who

2705
02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:36,760
Speaker 10: earlier became famous playing gangsters, and who won de Mill's favor,

2706
02:22:36,879 --> 02:22:39,760
Speaker 10: perhaps because he was a friendly witness before the House

2707
02:22:39,800 --> 02:22:44,000
Speaker 10: on American Activities Committee during the Communist witch hunts. Thus,

2708
02:22:44,080 --> 02:22:47,840
Speaker 10: the one prominent Jewish face in The Ten Commandments was

2709
02:22:47,959 --> 02:22:51,160
Speaker 10: cast as a bad guy, a Hebrew named Nathan who

2710
02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:54,959
Speaker 10: continually tries to undermine Moses and convince the escaped slaves

2711
02:22:55,040 --> 02:22:56,920
Speaker 10: to return to their Egyptian masters.

2712
02:22:59,400 --> 02:23:02,400
Speaker 3: You take too much upon yourself.

2713
02:23:03,480 --> 02:23:05,279
Speaker 1: We will not live by your commandments.

2714
02:23:05,320 --> 02:23:05,800
Speaker 30: We're free.

2715
02:23:07,200 --> 02:23:09,720
Speaker 4: There is no freedom without the law.

2716
02:23:10,600 --> 02:23:11,320
Speaker 3: Who's law?

2717
02:23:11,400 --> 02:23:12,240
Speaker 5: Most you yours?

2718
02:23:12,959 --> 02:23:15,480
Speaker 4: Did you call those tabolists to become a prince over us?

2719
02:23:16,360 --> 02:23:21,680
Speaker 22: As Cruz documents? When the Ten Commandments film was initially released,

2720
02:23:22,040 --> 02:23:25,240
Speaker 22: the Mill came up with an ingenious marketing strategy. He

2721
02:23:25,360 --> 02:23:29,440
Speaker 22: teamed up with a conservative anti communist organization, the Fraternal

2722
02:23:29,600 --> 02:23:33,119
Speaker 22: Order of the Eagles, to establish ten Commandment monuments across

2723
02:23:33,160 --> 02:23:36,520
Speaker 22: the country around the time that Southern States erected new

2724
02:23:36,680 --> 02:23:41,280
Speaker 22: Confederate monuments to protest desegregation. Ten Commandment monuments appeared at

2725
02:23:41,320 --> 02:23:45,360
Speaker 22: the county courthouse in Evansville, Indiana, the Milwaukee City Hall,

2726
02:23:45,760 --> 02:23:49,039
Speaker 22: and near the US Canadian border in North Dakota. Nearly

2727
02:23:49,080 --> 02:23:52,440
Speaker 22: one hundred and fifty such monuments were erected across the country.

2728
02:23:53,000 --> 02:23:55,600
Speaker 22: Momentum stalled during the Civil Rights era, to the extent

2729
02:23:55,680 --> 02:23:59,440
Speaker 22: that in Alabama, State Justice Roy Moore suffered ridicule when

2730
02:23:59,480 --> 02:24:03,680
Speaker 22: he placed without authorization, a self funded five thousand, two

2731
02:24:03,760 --> 02:24:06,400
Speaker 22: hundred and eighty pound monument in the rotunda of a

2732
02:24:06,480 --> 02:24:09,880
Speaker 22: judicial building housing State Supreme Court in two thousand and one.

2733
02:24:10,560 --> 02:24:14,280
Speaker 22: The monument was ordered removed two years later, but once

2734
02:24:14,360 --> 02:24:17,760
Speaker 22: fringe figures like more have moved closer to the American

2735
02:24:17,800 --> 02:24:20,960
Speaker 22: political mainstream because of the influence of people like Barton,

2736
02:24:21,200 --> 02:24:23,240
Speaker 22: Lieutenant Governor Patrick and their allies.

2737
02:24:23,760 --> 02:24:28,640
Speaker 10: The contemporary of session with festooning public spaces with religious

2738
02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:32,600
Speaker 10: artifacts has as much to do with malevolent nostalgia as

2739
02:24:32,720 --> 02:24:38,160
Speaker 10: with religious zeal men like anti CRT crusader Christopher Rufo,

2740
02:24:38,879 --> 02:24:41,960
Speaker 10: along with Barton and Patrick, want to return to the

2741
02:24:42,080 --> 02:24:45,080
Speaker 10: world that made The Ten Commandments film, a world in

2742
02:24:45,120 --> 02:24:48,920
Speaker 10: which white people are centered, the accomplishments of dark skinned

2743
02:24:48,959 --> 02:24:53,360
Speaker 10: people are erased or expropriated, and where America stands as

2744
02:24:53,400 --> 02:24:56,480
Speaker 10: an untainted beacon of freedom in spite of its history

2745
02:24:56,480 --> 02:25:01,840
Speaker 10: of enslavement, imperialism, and genocide. And now once again, advocates

2746
02:25:01,879 --> 02:25:05,039
Speaker 10: of historical amnesia have a friend in the White House.

2747
02:25:05,520 --> 02:25:08,800
Speaker 14: The time has come to reclaim our once great educational

2748
02:25:08,920 --> 02:25:11,680
Speaker 14: institutions from the radical left, and we will do that.

2749
02:25:12,320 --> 02:25:17,440
Speaker 14: Our secret weapon will be the college accreditation system. It's

2750
02:25:17,520 --> 02:25:21,800
Speaker 14: called accreditation for a reason. The accreditors are supposed to

2751
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:26,119
Speaker 14: ensure that schools are not ripping off students and taxpayers,

2752
02:25:26,200 --> 02:25:29,200
Speaker 14: but they have failed totally. When I return to the

2753
02:25:29,280 --> 02:25:32,200
Speaker 14: White House, I will fire the radical left accreditors that

2754
02:25:32,320 --> 02:25:37,840
Speaker 14: have allowed our colleges to become dominated by Marxist maniacs

2755
02:25:37,879 --> 02:25:38,680
Speaker 14: and lunatics.

2756
02:25:39,560 --> 02:25:42,720
Speaker 22: On January twenty ninth of this year, Trump issued an

2757
02:25:42,760 --> 02:25:46,160
Speaker 22: executive order mandating the withdrawal of federal dollars from any

2758
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:51,640
Speaker 22: public school that allegedly imprints quote anti American subversive, harmful,

2759
02:25:51,920 --> 02:25:55,840
Speaker 22: and false ideologies on our nation's children. This can include

2760
02:25:55,879 --> 02:26:01,360
Speaker 22: teaching them about transgender identity, providing services to students, or

2761
02:26:01,600 --> 02:26:06,720
Speaker 22: educating students about America's long, bloody promotion of white supremacy, homophobia,

2762
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:11,440
Speaker 22: or transphobia. The order also requires public schools to provide

2763
02:26:11,640 --> 02:26:16,560
Speaker 22: quote unquote patriotic education. Those like Trump, Barton and others

2764
02:26:16,800 --> 02:26:19,600
Speaker 22: who have clamored the loudest about schools as centers of

2765
02:26:19,640 --> 02:26:24,040
Speaker 22: indoctrination are now imposing their own form of propaganda, returning

2766
02:26:24,160 --> 02:26:27,800
Speaker 22: history classes from kindergarten to graduate schools to the days

2767
02:26:27,879 --> 02:26:30,640
Speaker 22: of the nineteen twenties and the nineteen thirties, when textbook

2768
02:26:30,680 --> 02:26:33,760
Speaker 22: writers praised fascist dictators for keeping unions in their place,

2769
02:26:34,240 --> 02:26:37,040
Speaker 22: and those willing to die to end slavery were painted

2770
02:26:37,240 --> 02:26:38,040
Speaker 22: as the bad guys.

2771
02:26:38,760 --> 02:26:41,800
Speaker 10: In the Civil Rights era, black and brown parents boycotted

2772
02:26:41,840 --> 02:26:46,120
Speaker 10: public schools that discriminated to undermine their funding, created their

2773
02:26:46,120 --> 02:26:49,600
Speaker 10: own freedom schools that provided lessons in black and brown history,

2774
02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:54,000
Speaker 10: and marched against the old Jim Crow laws. Parents who

2775
02:26:54,160 --> 02:26:57,160
Speaker 10: want their children receive an honest accounting of the nation's

2776
02:26:57,200 --> 02:27:00,520
Speaker 10: past will do well to learn from these pretas sessers

2777
02:27:00,920 --> 02:27:03,840
Speaker 10: and to disrupt the meetings of right wing school boards

2778
02:27:03,879 --> 02:27:07,400
Speaker 10: as loudly and enthusiastically as the parents who were conned

2779
02:27:07,400 --> 02:27:11,320
Speaker 10: into a frenzy about the phantom dangers of CRT. This

2780
02:27:11,520 --> 02:27:12,959
Speaker 10: is Michael Phillips and.

2781
02:27:13,040 --> 02:27:16,320
Speaker 22: This is Stephen Monticelli. Thanks to Betsy Freoff for reading

2782
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:19,840
Speaker 22: passages from textbooks, and to Dan Glass for reading quotes

2783
02:27:19,959 --> 02:27:21,000
Speaker 22: from the founding fathers.

2784
02:27:21,480 --> 02:27:23,920
Speaker 7: Of course, thanks to you for listening.

2785
02:27:45,560 --> 02:27:48,480
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to it could happen here. This is

2786
02:27:48,640 --> 02:27:52,440
Speaker 2: Robert Evans, and I have an episode for you. It's

2787
02:27:52,440 --> 02:27:55,560
Speaker 2: also an article I wrote for our substack, Shatter Zone,

2788
02:27:56,040 --> 02:27:58,760
Speaker 2: So I'm just going to get into that. Since February fifth,

2789
02:27:58,840 --> 02:28:03,160
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, atum has been circulating among democratic parties, staffers,

2790
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:07,360
Speaker 2: and liberal think tank experts warning about Curtis Jarvin and

2791
02:28:07,480 --> 02:28:11,440
Speaker 2: the Silicon Valley led coup to end US democracy. The

2792
02:28:11,600 --> 02:28:14,960
Speaker 2: document is titled the Imminent Neo Reactionary Threat to the

2793
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:18,360
Speaker 2: American Republic. It opens with a statement that the brief

2794
02:28:18,560 --> 02:28:22,720
Speaker 2: was quote iteratively and collectively compiled by a broad, bipartisan

2795
02:28:22,840 --> 02:28:26,600
Speaker 2: and decentralized network of experts who wish to remain anonymous

2796
02:28:26,680 --> 02:28:30,720
Speaker 2: due to concerns about being targeted. The full document is here.

2797
02:28:30,920 --> 02:28:34,439
Speaker 2: The table of contents is split into three main areas,

2798
02:28:34,840 --> 02:28:37,760
Speaker 2: one the new shape of threats to the American Republic,

2799
02:28:38,080 --> 02:28:40,800
Speaker 2: two understanding recent events in the context of threats to

2800
02:28:40,840 --> 02:28:44,440
Speaker 2: the American Republic, and three a list of appendices. The

2801
02:28:44,560 --> 02:28:46,880
Speaker 2: title of the actual file when I received it was

2802
02:28:47,040 --> 02:28:50,720
Speaker 2: Evidence Brief for Journalists, and the introduction describes its aim

2803
02:28:50,800 --> 02:28:53,840
Speaker 2: as quote explaining the nature of the current political crisis

2804
02:28:53,879 --> 02:28:57,600
Speaker 2: to journalists who are attempting to inform the public. However,

2805
02:28:57,760 --> 02:29:00,240
Speaker 2: I spoke with two sources who are members of these

2806
02:29:00,320 --> 02:29:03,080
Speaker 2: groups and received the document. They told me that, to

2807
02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:06,360
Speaker 2: their knowledge, the document was not mostly spread to journalists,

2808
02:29:06,760 --> 02:29:11,360
Speaker 2: but instead among networks of think tank employees and DNC staffers,

2809
02:29:11,760 --> 02:29:15,600
Speaker 2: people you might refer to broadly as policy wonks. One

2810
02:29:15,680 --> 02:29:18,280
Speaker 2: source I interviewed explained it is a thing for think

2811
02:29:18,360 --> 02:29:21,880
Speaker 2: tanks to frame overviews for laypeople as briefs for journalists

2812
02:29:22,000 --> 02:29:25,600
Speaker 2: or congress see the IPCC reports. Part of me thinks

2813
02:29:25,640 --> 02:29:28,560
Speaker 2: the framing for journalists is just a shortcut for this

2814
02:29:28,760 --> 02:29:33,080
Speaker 2: is somewhat specialized knowledge broken down. The paper opens by

2815
02:29:33,120 --> 02:29:36,600
Speaker 2: acknowledging the scope of the executive power grap being perpetuated

2816
02:29:36,720 --> 02:29:39,760
Speaker 2: under President Trump, and that is stabilization wrought by Elon

2817
02:29:39,920 --> 02:29:43,480
Speaker 2: Musk and his doge team. It then notes the threat

2818
02:29:43,600 --> 02:29:46,879
Speaker 2: is an order of magnitude beyond just a presidential power

2819
02:29:47,000 --> 02:29:49,680
Speaker 2: grap It states that Musk is tied to a quote

2820
02:29:49,760 --> 02:29:53,360
Speaker 2: broader group of Silicon Valley tech elites, including Peter Thiel

2821
02:29:53,480 --> 02:29:57,400
Speaker 2: and Mark Andresen Curtis. Yarvin is labeled as a thought

2822
02:29:57,520 --> 02:30:02,320
Speaker 2: leader in this group quote called the neo reactionaries. I'll

2823
02:30:02,360 --> 02:30:05,039
Speaker 2: stop here to note that this summary is accurate enough

2824
02:30:05,160 --> 02:30:07,560
Speaker 2: for mass consumption, but I have some issues with it.

2825
02:30:08,200 --> 02:30:11,720
Speaker 2: Musk probably would not label himself a neo reactionary, and

2826
02:30:11,800 --> 02:30:14,640
Speaker 2: he doesn't have much of a history with Jarvin. Peter

2827
02:30:14,840 --> 02:30:18,120
Speaker 2: Teeal does, but it's more a relationship of patronage than

2828
02:30:18,200 --> 02:30:21,560
Speaker 2: mutual influence. It would be more accurate to say that

2829
02:30:21,720 --> 02:30:24,840
Speaker 2: Teal and Andreas and find Yarvin useful because of his

2830
02:30:25,000 --> 02:30:27,600
Speaker 2: success and spreading to a lot of young techy kids

2831
02:30:28,000 --> 02:30:31,960
Speaker 2: the idea that tech CEOs should run the world. Musk,

2832
02:30:32,040 --> 02:30:35,040
Speaker 2: I feel, has largely jumped on this bandwagon with the

2833
02:30:35,120 --> 02:30:39,439
Speaker 2: neo reactionaries because those tech kids are useful foot soldiers

2834
02:30:39,879 --> 02:30:44,520
Speaker 2: Jarvin's ideas about retiring all government employees and destroying the

2835
02:30:44,640 --> 02:30:49,640
Speaker 2: independent media and academia are convenient for Musk's own ambitions.

2836
02:30:50,240 --> 02:30:54,640
Speaker 2: This context may be unnecessary for explaining the overall danger

2837
02:30:54,840 --> 02:30:58,280
Speaker 2: of the neo reactionaries and Musk to regular people. But

2838
02:30:58,320 --> 02:31:00,520
Speaker 2: I also think it's a mistake to credit Jarvin with

2839
02:31:00,600 --> 02:31:03,080
Speaker 2: more power than he holds. The document refers to him

2840
02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:06,840
Speaker 2: as the leader of the neo reactionary movement, and I

2841
02:31:07,000 --> 02:31:10,199
Speaker 2: think that gets across kind of the wrong idea about

2842
02:31:10,240 --> 02:31:13,880
Speaker 2: how all of this works. That said, the document does

2843
02:31:13,959 --> 02:31:16,199
Speaker 2: do a pretty good job of summing up the threat

2844
02:31:16,240 --> 02:31:19,800
Speaker 2: that we face. Quote. The neo reactionaries have openly stated

2845
02:31:19,879 --> 02:31:22,760
Speaker 2: their aims to destroy the nation state and the constitutional

2846
02:31:22,920 --> 02:31:26,200
Speaker 2: order and replace them with a newly privately owned corporate

2847
02:31:26,280 --> 02:31:30,120
Speaker 2: state to be run by a CEO dictator. Citizens become

2848
02:31:30,240 --> 02:31:33,840
Speaker 2: subjects owned by the state state slaves in Yarvin's terms,

2849
02:31:34,160 --> 02:31:38,080
Speaker 2: because everything rots when it has no owner. Human beings included.

2850
02:31:38,840 --> 02:31:42,119
Speaker 2: That last quote is also one of Jarvin's. From here,

2851
02:31:42,320 --> 02:31:45,080
Speaker 2: the document argues that Musk and his team are attempting

2852
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:47,960
Speaker 2: to bring about this dystopia by taking over the quote

2853
02:31:48,080 --> 02:31:52,000
Speaker 2: nervous system of the state. Another Jarvin quote These would

2854
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:55,280
Speaker 2: be the data and communications systems that DOSE is trying

2855
02:31:55,360 --> 02:31:59,520
Speaker 2: to centralize in its unaccountable hands. Next, the authors of

2856
02:31:59,560 --> 02:32:02,840
Speaker 2: this docum document make a call to action. Quote the

2857
02:32:02,920 --> 02:32:06,840
Speaker 2: most dramatic reversals of democratic breakdown nineteen seventy seven, India

2858
02:32:06,959 --> 02:32:09,920
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, Brazil twenty twenty three, Poland have been

2859
02:32:09,959 --> 02:32:14,640
Speaker 2: accomplished by radically large, tent cross ideological coalitions with little

2860
02:32:14,680 --> 02:32:17,400
Speaker 2: in common accept a desire for the continuation of a

2861
02:32:17,480 --> 02:32:21,680
Speaker 2: constitutional order. Evidence suggests that the present threat to American

2862
02:32:21,760 --> 02:32:25,320
Speaker 2: democracy is dire enough that such a broad tent approach

2863
02:32:25,440 --> 02:32:29,280
Speaker 2: focused on Musk and his associates may be required. And

2864
02:32:29,400 --> 02:32:31,840
Speaker 2: I think this is the most interesting and hopeful part

2865
02:32:31,879 --> 02:32:34,200
Speaker 2: of the whole document for me. For one thing, I

2866
02:32:34,280 --> 02:32:37,560
Speaker 2: believe it does accurately state what's needed in the present moment,

2867
02:32:37,920 --> 02:32:42,039
Speaker 2: a popular front against autocracy and dictatorship. I would add

2868
02:32:42,120 --> 02:32:45,800
Speaker 2: to their list of relevant examples of popular fronts the original,

2869
02:32:45,879 --> 02:32:48,440
Speaker 2: which is France from nineteen thirty four to nineteen thirty eight.

2870
02:32:49,400 --> 02:32:52,720
Speaker 2: So it's heartening to see evidence that this understanding has

2871
02:32:52,760 --> 02:32:55,880
Speaker 2: started to grow within D and C policy circles in

2872
02:32:55,959 --> 02:32:59,560
Speaker 2: the people around them. The source who sent me this document.

2873
02:32:59,640 --> 02:33:02,720
Speaker 2: In the first described themselves as a member of quote

2874
02:33:02,800 --> 02:33:06,080
Speaker 2: a few unofficial networks of climate activists who are high

2875
02:33:06,160 --> 02:33:09,560
Speaker 2: ranking in the government and policy think tank circles. They

2876
02:33:09,680 --> 02:33:13,119
Speaker 2: noted that these are normally quote very milk toast lib spaces,

2877
02:33:13,240 --> 02:33:19,120
Speaker 2: but quote they're being radicalized rapidly. Both sources I interviewed

2878
02:33:19,200 --> 02:33:22,280
Speaker 2: for this requested anonymity. The second person I talked to

2879
02:33:22,360 --> 02:33:25,760
Speaker 2: with gave an explicit reason. They stated, quote I've suspected

2880
02:33:25,800 --> 02:33:27,760
Speaker 2: for a while a lot more things in D and

2881
02:33:27,840 --> 02:33:31,160
Speaker 2: C stuff was compromised than people were comfortable with. In

2882
02:33:31,240 --> 02:33:34,360
Speaker 2: other words, they believe the Republican Party has spies within

2883
02:33:34,440 --> 02:33:37,160
Speaker 2: the DNC, and people they know have made statements to

2884
02:33:37,440 --> 02:33:41,720
Speaker 2: that effect. They were worried that these quote GOP moles

2885
02:33:42,000 --> 02:33:45,000
Speaker 2: might reveal their identity, but more so, they were worried

2886
02:33:45,040 --> 02:33:48,000
Speaker 2: that these moles might have planted the document itself and

2887
02:33:48,120 --> 02:33:51,480
Speaker 2: put false information inside it with the goal of provoking

2888
02:33:51,520 --> 02:33:55,600
Speaker 2: a reaction from Democrats that would be useful politically to Republicans.

2889
02:33:56,280 --> 02:33:59,800
Speaker 2: I do think this caveat is worthwhile it's certainly not impossible.

2890
02:34:00,040 --> 02:34:02,960
Speaker 2: I think the frank admission that the DNC likely has

2891
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:07,000
Speaker 2: Republican spies inside it is also really worth stating. But

2892
02:34:07,120 --> 02:34:09,440
Speaker 2: I should note that when it comes to the actual

2893
02:34:09,520 --> 02:34:12,640
Speaker 2: accuracy of this document, I don't really see much to

2894
02:34:12,720 --> 02:34:15,600
Speaker 2: take issue with. I've spent more time than most people

2895
02:34:15,680 --> 02:34:18,920
Speaker 2: studying Curtis Jarvin and the neo reactionaries. I would not

2896
02:34:19,040 --> 02:34:21,920
Speaker 2: describe myself as a top expert in the matter, but

2897
02:34:22,000 --> 02:34:23,720
Speaker 2: I do have a good base of knowledge here, and

2898
02:34:23,800 --> 02:34:26,040
Speaker 2: nothing that I've read in this document struck me as

2899
02:34:26,200 --> 02:34:30,240
Speaker 2: obviously false or incorrect, nor did the overall tone seem

2900
02:34:30,320 --> 02:34:34,360
Speaker 2: hysteric or unreasonable. So I asked my sources if over

2901
02:34:34,440 --> 02:34:37,480
Speaker 2: the last month they'd seen more people talking about Jarvin

2902
02:34:37,560 --> 02:34:40,080
Speaker 2: in their daily lives within sort of the circles that

2903
02:34:40,160 --> 02:34:43,000
Speaker 2: they work in and around, because again, they communicate with

2904
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:47,680
Speaker 2: a lot of DNC staffers and politicians. They said, respectively, No,

2905
02:34:48,000 --> 02:34:50,400
Speaker 2: and quote. That's kind of one of the odd things,

2906
02:34:50,440 --> 02:34:53,200
Speaker 2: to be frank, this guy Jarvin is being brought to

2907
02:34:53,280 --> 02:34:56,400
Speaker 2: big events in DC. He's been referenced by Bannon Advance.

2908
02:34:56,520 --> 02:34:59,040
Speaker 2: I have heard his talking points come from Republican mouths,

2909
02:34:59,280 --> 02:35:03,600
Speaker 2: but he's largely not tracked. That concern comports with some

2910
02:35:03,720 --> 02:35:07,080
Speaker 2: of fears that I had late last year about Jarvin

2911
02:35:07,160 --> 02:35:10,120
Speaker 2: and the neo reactionaries. Namely, I had believed for some

2912
02:35:10,320 --> 02:35:13,760
Speaker 2: time that Yarvin and the people kind of aligned with

2913
02:35:13,920 --> 02:35:16,520
Speaker 2: him largely, a lot of these Silicon Valley folks with

2914
02:35:16,680 --> 02:35:20,360
Speaker 2: money had become much more influential among Trump and his

2915
02:35:20,959 --> 02:35:25,160
Speaker 2: tight inner circle than was widely understood at the time. Ultimately,

2916
02:35:25,240 --> 02:35:28,160
Speaker 2: I wrote and researched two episodes of Behind the Bastards

2917
02:35:28,520 --> 02:35:31,400
Speaker 2: because I thought it was valuable to bring more attention

2918
02:35:31,600 --> 02:35:34,480
Speaker 2: to the subject. I really had kind of a gut

2919
02:35:34,560 --> 02:35:37,080
Speaker 2: feeling that this was going to become much more relevant

2920
02:35:37,200 --> 02:35:39,360
Speaker 2: very soon, which is why I picked it as the

2921
02:35:39,400 --> 02:35:41,760
Speaker 2: topic for the episode we did with Ed Helms, who's

2922
02:35:41,879 --> 02:35:44,360
Speaker 2: by a pretty good margin, the biggest celebrity we've had

2923
02:35:44,440 --> 02:35:46,520
Speaker 2: on the show so far, and I hope that that

2924
02:35:46,560 --> 02:35:49,160
Speaker 2: would help kind of get we were talking about out

2925
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:51,840
Speaker 2: to a wider audience, and it did. The episodes did

2926
02:35:52,000 --> 02:35:55,640
Speaker 2: very well between YouTube and our downloads in the podcast

2927
02:35:55,800 --> 02:35:58,360
Speaker 2: were probably at something like a million listens for them

2928
02:35:58,440 --> 02:36:02,040
Speaker 2: at this point. Listener base is a mix of leftists

2929
02:36:02,120 --> 02:36:06,520
Speaker 2: and progressive liberals. Right their interests are not representative of

2930
02:36:06,600 --> 02:36:10,800
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party at large. It is noteworthy and perhaps

2931
02:36:10,840 --> 02:36:14,400
Speaker 2: even important that influential individuals in the policy space with

2932
02:36:14,600 --> 02:36:18,040
Speaker 2: connections to democratic politicians and the DNC as an organization,

2933
02:36:18,600 --> 02:36:22,000
Speaker 2: have started a grassroots effort to spread the word about

2934
02:36:22,120 --> 02:36:24,960
Speaker 2: Jarvin as a threat, and that's what this document represents.

2935
02:36:25,440 --> 02:36:29,160
Speaker 2: It's even more noteworthy that this document is unsparing about

2936
02:36:29,200 --> 02:36:31,640
Speaker 2: the danger and the fact that a clock is currently

2937
02:36:31,760 --> 02:36:35,200
Speaker 2: ticking over all of our heads. Here's another quote. If

2938
02:36:35,280 --> 02:36:40,720
Speaker 2: non governmental actors, by which we mean unelected, unratified, unvetted, untrained, unconstrained,

2939
02:36:40,760 --> 02:36:44,519
Speaker 2: and or unaccountable actors gain access to key digital infrastructure,

2940
02:36:44,760 --> 02:36:47,400
Speaker 2: they could seize control of critical functions of government in

2941
02:36:47,520 --> 02:36:51,560
Speaker 2: ways that will be difficult or impossible to reverse. And

2942
02:36:51,760 --> 02:36:55,440
Speaker 2: speaking of things that can't be reversed, my love for

2943
02:36:55,840 --> 02:36:56,600
Speaker 2: our sponsors.

2944
02:37:07,000 --> 02:37:07,480
Speaker 4: We're back.

2945
02:37:07,959 --> 02:37:10,960
Speaker 2: So to continue from this document, there's a section next

2946
02:37:11,120 --> 02:37:15,640
Speaker 2: titled national security, and the focus shifts from Jarvin and

2947
02:37:16,000 --> 02:37:20,120
Speaker 2: his neo reactionaries to Musk, who it claims, quote poses

2948
02:37:20,200 --> 02:37:24,640
Speaker 2: a uniquely significant security risk. This, in its argument, is

2949
02:37:24,680 --> 02:37:28,920
Speaker 2: because Musk and Doge espouse quote anti constitutional ideologies and

2950
02:37:29,160 --> 02:37:33,040
Speaker 2: quote are under the influence of America's principle foreign adversaries

2951
02:37:33,280 --> 02:37:36,199
Speaker 2: China and Russia. It goes on at some length about

2952
02:37:36,280 --> 02:37:40,360
Speaker 2: Musk's foreign business interests and how they might compromise him. Now,

2953
02:37:40,360 --> 02:37:43,640
Speaker 2: I don't disagree that Musk is compromised, but I see

2954
02:37:43,720 --> 02:37:46,680
Speaker 2: his actions as very much consistent with those of a

2955
02:37:46,760 --> 02:37:50,800
Speaker 2: man seizing power for himself. I do understand why people

2956
02:37:50,920 --> 02:37:54,200
Speaker 2: speaking to an audience that is largely you know, when

2957
02:37:54,240 --> 02:37:56,760
Speaker 2: it's bipartisan, it's folks who are kind of more on

2958
02:37:56,840 --> 02:37:59,120
Speaker 2: the centrist side of things in the policy space, and

2959
02:37:59,160 --> 02:38:03,439
Speaker 2: otherwise largely lot of like Democratic Party employees and politicians.

2960
02:38:03,520 --> 02:38:06,920
Speaker 2: I understand why you focus on the China and Russia

2961
02:38:07,120 --> 02:38:09,680
Speaker 2: of it all with them, But when it comes to

2962
02:38:10,160 --> 02:38:13,000
Speaker 2: both accurately stating the threat and getting a lot of

2963
02:38:13,040 --> 02:38:15,680
Speaker 2: people to care, I really don't think that's the right

2964
02:38:15,760 --> 02:38:19,480
Speaker 2: strategy to take. I think it's an issue to focus

2965
02:38:19,640 --> 02:38:24,240
Speaker 2: popular messaging around how this all empowers quote America's principle

2966
02:38:24,320 --> 02:38:28,920
Speaker 2: foreign adversaries, because most Americans don't really think that way

2967
02:38:29,160 --> 02:38:33,280
Speaker 2: or particularly care about that. And beyond that, the larger

2968
02:38:33,400 --> 02:38:36,840
Speaker 2: issue is that the primary adversary Musk has empowered is not,

2969
02:38:37,000 --> 02:38:40,480
Speaker 2: in fact the Russian or Chinese governments, it's himself, and

2970
02:38:40,680 --> 02:38:44,480
Speaker 2: he personally, as an individual, is currently a greater threat

2971
02:38:44,560 --> 02:38:48,880
Speaker 2: to every citizen of the United States than any foreign government.

2972
02:38:49,360 --> 02:38:51,960
Speaker 2: I think that's undeniable, and I think again, it's an

2973
02:38:52,320 --> 02:38:55,720
Speaker 2: error not to frame it that way. The next section

2974
02:38:55,840 --> 02:38:59,480
Speaker 2: of the paper lays out the definition of a coup quote.

2975
02:39:00,000 --> 02:39:02,600
Speaker 2: In essence, a coup is a number one rapid seizure

2976
02:39:02,640 --> 02:39:05,560
Speaker 2: of state power by unelected actors who acquire that power

2977
02:39:05,640 --> 02:39:10,040
Speaker 2: by two seizing critical government infrastructure, and three weaponizing it

2978
02:39:10,160 --> 02:39:13,800
Speaker 2: to neutralize legitimate government actors' efforts to stop them. The

2979
02:39:13,879 --> 02:39:16,600
Speaker 2: unelected actors then use this power to four remake the

2980
02:39:16,680 --> 02:39:18,800
Speaker 2: rules of the political game in a way that cannot

2981
02:39:18,840 --> 02:39:22,920
Speaker 2: easily be checked or undone through democratic processes. Now it

2982
02:39:23,120 --> 02:39:26,400
Speaker 2: argues convincingly that all four of these steps are underway now.

2983
02:39:26,920 --> 02:39:29,080
Speaker 2: One thing I found compelling is the way at which

2984
02:39:29,160 --> 02:39:33,560
Speaker 2: this document recognizes the threat that cryptocurrency represents right now,

2985
02:39:33,800 --> 02:39:35,640
Speaker 2: and how it can and will be used by the

2986
02:39:35,720 --> 02:39:38,920
Speaker 2: new regime to cement their power in ways that sidestep

2987
02:39:39,040 --> 02:39:43,240
Speaker 2: the present legal system quote without canceling elections. For example,

2988
02:39:43,320 --> 02:39:46,880
Speaker 2: cryptocurrency can be used to create informal but powerful new

2989
02:39:46,959 --> 02:39:51,040
Speaker 2: levers of political influence. Politicians can sell personal coins to

2990
02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:54,360
Speaker 2: unknown buyers who vote on public policy on the basis

2991
02:39:54,400 --> 02:39:58,640
Speaker 2: of their shareholder power shielded from public view. I think

2992
02:39:58,680 --> 02:40:01,160
Speaker 2: that's a real thing to be concerned with. I also

2993
02:40:01,240 --> 02:40:04,920
Speaker 2: think it's very clearly part of the goal of this project. Now,

2994
02:40:05,200 --> 02:40:08,080
Speaker 2: next we have a summary of the neo Reactionary Agenda,

2995
02:40:08,240 --> 02:40:11,279
Speaker 2: which lists some additional names among the Silicon Valley elde

2996
02:40:11,320 --> 02:40:15,520
Speaker 2: currently championing an overthrow of democracy. These include David Sachs,

2997
02:40:15,840 --> 02:40:17,720
Speaker 2: Blaji Shrinivasan, and JD.

2998
02:40:17,959 --> 02:40:18,320
Speaker 7: Vance.

2999
02:40:18,720 --> 02:40:22,400
Speaker 2: Also name dropped is a political theorist named Nick Land,

3000
02:40:22,480 --> 02:40:25,680
Speaker 2: who is in fact referenced twice in this paper. He

3001
02:40:25,800 --> 02:40:28,240
Speaker 2: is quoted directly as having said in his paper the

3002
02:40:28,360 --> 02:40:32,360
Speaker 2: Dark Enlightenment quote for the hardcore neo reactionaries, democracy is

3003
02:40:32,440 --> 02:40:36,039
Speaker 2: not merely doomed. It is doom itself fleeing it approaches

3004
02:40:36,080 --> 02:40:39,440
Speaker 2: an ultimate imperative. Land has had a huge impact on

3005
02:40:39,520 --> 02:40:41,440
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys, although he's not really a

3006
02:40:41,560 --> 02:40:44,400
Speaker 2: Jarvin like figure in he's not this kind of guy

3007
02:40:44,440 --> 02:40:46,800
Speaker 2: who sees himself as or I think, really wants to

3008
02:40:46,879 --> 02:40:50,959
Speaker 2: be a shadowy puppet master orchestrating the overthrow of democracy

3009
02:40:51,040 --> 02:40:55,400
Speaker 2: from behind the scenes. He's really someone stating what he

3010
02:40:55,480 --> 02:40:59,080
Speaker 2: believes to be kind of inevitable concepts and realities about

3011
02:40:59,120 --> 02:41:02,560
Speaker 2: our presentest historical moment that happened to comport with a

3012
02:41:02,600 --> 02:41:05,480
Speaker 2: lot of the things that these guys believe now. The

3013
02:41:05,640 --> 02:41:09,720
Speaker 2: author's next layout Jarvin's concept of the Butterfly Revolution, which

3014
02:41:09,760 --> 02:41:11,720
Speaker 2: is based on an essay he wrote in twenty twenty

3015
02:41:11,760 --> 02:41:14,000
Speaker 2: two in which he laid out how a full reboot

3016
02:41:14,080 --> 02:41:15,960
Speaker 2: of the US government could be accomplished.

3017
02:41:16,440 --> 02:41:16,720
Speaker 4: Quote.

3018
02:41:17,000 --> 02:41:20,879
Speaker 2: Jarvin's seven part Butterfly Revolution has been roughly summarized as follows.

3019
02:41:21,040 --> 02:41:23,600
Speaker 2: Number one, have Trump run for president on the platform

3020
02:41:23,680 --> 02:41:26,720
Speaker 2: of getting rid of an efficient system. Number two, once

3021
02:41:26,760 --> 02:41:31,039
Speaker 2: he wins, purge the bureaucracy, rage, retire all government employees.

3022
02:41:31,520 --> 02:41:34,680
Speaker 2: Number three, ignore the courts through declaring states of emergency.

3023
02:41:35,040 --> 02:41:39,080
Speaker 2: Number four, co opt Congress. Number five, centralize the police,

3024
02:41:39,240 --> 02:41:42,240
Speaker 2: federalize the national Guard, create a national police force that

3025
02:41:42,320 --> 02:41:43,400
Speaker 2: absorbs local ones.

3026
02:41:43,800 --> 02:41:44,360
Speaker 7: Number six.

3027
02:41:44,760 --> 02:41:47,440
Speaker 2: Shut down the elites, the media, and the universities who

3028
02:41:47,480 --> 02:41:50,760
Speaker 2: make up the cathedral. Number seven. Get people on the

3029
02:41:50,879 --> 02:41:54,160
Speaker 2: streets whenever there is any obstruction by a government agency.

3030
02:41:54,720 --> 02:41:58,040
Speaker 2: And obviously all of that we've seen Trump and his

3031
02:41:58,120 --> 02:42:01,800
Speaker 2: people make moves towards in the last couple of weeks, right,

3032
02:42:02,320 --> 02:42:04,600
Speaker 2: And that's in fact what the next chunk of the

3033
02:42:04,760 --> 02:42:08,040
Speaker 2: document is Subsequent pages summarize the first days of the

3034
02:42:08,080 --> 02:42:11,360
Speaker 2: Trump administration and DOJE activity, and they show how it

3035
02:42:11,440 --> 02:42:14,560
Speaker 2: comports with the Butterfly Revolution blueprint. Now, we've all lived

3036
02:42:14,600 --> 02:42:16,920
Speaker 2: that in real time, so I'm not going to summarize

3037
02:42:16,959 --> 02:42:20,959
Speaker 2: their arguments here. So the document ends with a section

3038
02:42:21,240 --> 02:42:25,960
Speaker 2: on actions and rhetoric to watch. Those are listed as

3039
02:42:26,160 --> 02:42:30,120
Speaker 2: quote government contracts which fund many of Musk's companies at present,

3040
02:42:30,320 --> 02:42:33,760
Speaker 2: and the next is Greenland and Mars quote. A core

3041
02:42:33,879 --> 02:42:37,040
Speaker 2: tenant of neo reactionary ideology is the replacement of nation

3042
02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:42,480
Speaker 2: states with network states, but states require territory. Technocracy Inc,

3043
02:42:42,600 --> 02:42:45,320
Speaker 2: a predecessor to the neo reactionary movement, whose one time

3044
02:42:45,400 --> 02:42:49,920
Speaker 2: director was Elon Musk's grandfather, proposed a North American Technate

3045
02:42:50,240 --> 02:42:53,039
Speaker 2: where the entire continent of North America would be united

3046
02:42:53,160 --> 02:42:57,199
Speaker 2: under one technocratic superstate. There is currently a Peter teelbacked

3047
02:42:57,280 --> 02:43:01,520
Speaker 2: network state project called Praxis in Greenland. Musk's public statements

3048
02:43:01,520 --> 02:43:03,880
Speaker 2: about colonizing Mars can also be read as part of

3049
02:43:03,920 --> 02:43:08,760
Speaker 2: a territorial project. Lastly, it lists crypto, which the authors

3050
02:43:08,840 --> 02:43:12,480
Speaker 2: primarily seem to fear, as a method of deniably bribing Trump. Now,

3051
02:43:12,520 --> 02:43:14,640
Speaker 2: I think most of this is pretty credible. Although I

3052
02:43:14,680 --> 02:43:18,160
Speaker 2: feel differently about musk talk about colonizing Mars. I think

3053
02:43:18,200 --> 02:43:21,440
Speaker 2: that's been more about pr than anything. I do think

3054
02:43:21,480 --> 02:43:23,680
Speaker 2: there's a good chance he's just delusional enough to think

3055
02:43:23,720 --> 02:43:27,240
Speaker 2: that that's something feasible on any kind of close end

3056
02:43:27,360 --> 02:43:31,680
Speaker 2: time frame, that we start building persistent colonies on Mars.

3057
02:43:32,200 --> 02:43:35,160
Speaker 2: I think the science suggests that if that ever happens,

3058
02:43:35,240 --> 02:43:37,760
Speaker 2: it won't be anytime soon, and I think he knows that.

3059
02:43:38,080 --> 02:43:42,440
Speaker 2: I think he's largely understands hype well and how to

3060
02:43:42,600 --> 02:43:45,080
Speaker 2: use it, and Mars has been an easy way for

3061
02:43:45,200 --> 02:43:48,080
Speaker 2: him to do that over the years. Overall, I'd say

3062
02:43:48,120 --> 02:43:50,480
Speaker 2: the document is fairly thorough, and it's layout of the

3063
02:43:50,560 --> 02:43:54,920
Speaker 2: neo reactionary ecosystem and the actual plan currently being acted

3064
02:43:55,000 --> 02:43:59,000
Speaker 2: to end US democracy. It includes a section that lists

3065
02:43:59,000 --> 02:44:02,160
Speaker 2: several of the earliest known DOGE employees, and it quotes

3066
02:44:02,280 --> 02:44:06,760
Speaker 2: extensively from Jarvin and somewhat less extensively from Land. The

3067
02:44:06,840 --> 02:44:10,200
Speaker 2: paper's ultimate conclusion is that Musk is using this moment

3068
02:44:10,280 --> 02:44:13,120
Speaker 2: to turn himself into the kind of unitary, all powerful

3069
02:44:13,160 --> 02:44:16,880
Speaker 2: executive that Yarvin longs for. This is an executive who

3070
02:44:17,120 --> 02:44:21,480
Speaker 2: rules alongside a largely ceremonial president, as well as courts

3071
02:44:21,600 --> 02:44:26,840
Speaker 2: and a legislative system that are equally ceremonial. After laying

3072
02:44:26,879 --> 02:44:29,600
Speaker 2: out the bulk of the actual threat, the article promises

3073
02:44:29,680 --> 02:44:32,840
Speaker 2: that quote Section three articulates what Congress and other actors

3074
02:44:32,879 --> 02:44:35,960
Speaker 2: can do in order to stop this threat. However, the

3075
02:44:36,080 --> 02:44:39,160
Speaker 2: document in its present form does not include any Section

3076
02:44:39,360 --> 02:44:43,840
Speaker 2: three or any comprehensive list of solutions Congress and other

3077
02:44:44,040 --> 02:44:47,279
Speaker 2: actors might carry out in order to stop the present

3078
02:44:47,320 --> 02:44:51,720
Speaker 2: assault on democracy. And perhaps there's a later version of

3079
02:44:51,800 --> 02:44:54,520
Speaker 2: the document that I don't have access to that includes that,

3080
02:44:54,959 --> 02:44:57,600
Speaker 2: perhaps this is just a statement that wasn't edited out.

3081
02:44:58,120 --> 02:45:01,120
Speaker 2: I have to say and heart as I find the

3082
02:45:01,200 --> 02:45:04,040
Speaker 2: way in which this document talks about the threat that

3083
02:45:04,120 --> 02:45:06,359
Speaker 2: we're facing, and the fact that I think it's overall

3084
02:45:06,480 --> 02:45:09,680
Speaker 2: good that people in positions of influence and around the

3085
02:45:09,760 --> 02:45:13,360
Speaker 2: DNC are talking about this stuff. It's also kind of

3086
02:45:13,440 --> 02:45:16,360
Speaker 2: perfect that at the end they're like, hey, you know,

3087
02:45:16,680 --> 02:45:19,960
Speaker 2: don't worry, We've included some tips on how to defeat

3088
02:45:20,000 --> 02:45:22,680
Speaker 2: these guys, and then they just don't. You know, if

3089
02:45:22,720 --> 02:45:25,960
Speaker 2: the situation weren't so dire, it would be a lot funnier,

3090
02:45:26,120 --> 02:45:28,520
Speaker 2: but unfortunately it is pretty dire.

3091
02:45:28,840 --> 02:45:28,960
Speaker 4: Now.

3092
02:45:29,280 --> 02:45:30,520
Speaker 2: If you want to take a look at the full

3093
02:45:30,560 --> 02:45:33,080
Speaker 2: document itself, it's quite a bit longer than what I've

3094
02:45:33,160 --> 02:45:35,440
Speaker 2: read to you now, but it is really worth reading,

3095
02:45:35,640 --> 02:45:38,880
Speaker 2: especially if you have been hearing about this Curtis Yarvin

3096
02:45:38,920 --> 02:45:41,760
Speaker 2: guy or the neo reactionarys and you kind of want

3097
02:45:41,800 --> 02:45:43,520
Speaker 2: to know how this all fits together with what Musk

3098
02:45:43,680 --> 02:45:46,440
Speaker 2: is doing in more detail, if you go to my

3099
02:45:46,640 --> 02:45:50,200
Speaker 2: substack at shatter Zone, the most recent article is the

3100
02:45:50,320 --> 02:45:52,560
Speaker 2: text of this and I include a couple of different

3101
02:45:52,760 --> 02:45:56,120
Speaker 2: points links to the full document which I have uploaded

3102
02:45:56,160 --> 02:45:58,760
Speaker 2: to scribed, and you can read the whole thing if

3103
02:45:58,800 --> 02:46:01,680
Speaker 2: you want. It is not been altered since I have

3104
02:46:01,840 --> 02:46:05,360
Speaker 2: received it. And again, yeah, I think it's worth getting

3105
02:46:05,400 --> 02:46:08,800
Speaker 2: out there and spreading to more people. So that's the episode.

3106
02:46:08,879 --> 02:46:12,120
Speaker 2: We will be back tomorrow with something else. Until then, folks,

3107
02:46:13,520 --> 02:46:16,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, keep an eye on this shit.

3108
02:46:17,760 --> 02:46:18,000
Speaker 4: Bye.

3109
02:46:42,480 --> 02:46:43,480
Speaker 3: This is it could happen here.

3110
02:46:43,560 --> 02:46:47,480
Speaker 21: Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

3111
02:46:47,640 --> 02:46:51,280
Speaker 21: White House, Yes, the crumbling world and what it means

3112
02:46:51,320 --> 02:46:54,920
Speaker 21: for me and you. I'm Garrison Davis today. I'm joined

3113
02:46:54,959 --> 02:46:57,879
Speaker 21: by James Stout and Robert Evans. Yes, this week we're

3114
02:46:57,959 --> 02:47:02,040
Speaker 21: covering the week of February ninth, nineteen to February twenty sixth.

3115
02:47:02,240 --> 02:47:05,640
Speaker 9: Boy, if you thought we had ed before, do we

3116
02:47:05,879 --> 02:47:10,240
Speaker 9: have ed now? We still haven't got that Haym sponsorship,

3117
02:47:10,280 --> 02:47:11,320
Speaker 9: but will yeah crying.

3118
02:47:11,160 --> 02:47:13,119
Speaker 2: We're going to keep working at it. I'm also looking

3119
02:47:13,200 --> 02:47:16,960
Speaker 2: to get us a penis pump sponsorship. Speaking of penis pumps,

3120
02:47:17,120 --> 02:47:22,240
Speaker 2: let's talk about the Germans. So Germany had its election

3121
02:47:22,720 --> 02:47:27,760
Speaker 2: very recently after their most recent coalition collapsed. The way

3122
02:47:27,840 --> 02:47:34,560
Speaker 2: their government works is that periodically governments can't continue being governments,

3123
02:47:34,600 --> 02:47:36,480
Speaker 2: and so they have to have a very sudden election.

3124
02:47:37,000 --> 02:47:37,600
Speaker 25: I'm not going to.

3125
02:47:38,040 --> 02:47:41,039
Speaker 2: Explain it much more than that, but the actual results

3126
02:47:41,120 --> 02:47:44,960
Speaker 2: of the election were pretty interesting, right. The primary winner

3127
02:47:45,240 --> 02:47:49,360
Speaker 2: was off Day AfD Alternative for Germany would be kind

3128
02:47:49,360 --> 02:47:52,959
Speaker 2: of the mostest English translation of the name of the party.

3129
02:47:53,480 --> 02:47:57,199
Speaker 2: This is a far right party. It is primarily popular

3130
02:47:57,480 --> 02:48:02,480
Speaker 2: in East Germany now, but it has surged massively after

3131
02:48:02,760 --> 02:48:06,240
Speaker 2: years and years of being decidedly on the political fringe.

3132
02:48:06,600 --> 02:48:08,280
Speaker 2: One of the reasons it has always been on the

3133
02:48:08,320 --> 02:48:13,800
Speaker 2: political fringe is that German parties, both centrists conservatives and

3134
02:48:14,080 --> 02:48:18,480
Speaker 2: the left have had a tacit agreement since the end

3135
02:48:18,560 --> 02:48:22,840
Speaker 2: of World War Two called the Cordon sanitaire. It's not

3136
02:48:23,120 --> 02:48:24,760
Speaker 2: just Germany, this is the thing that used to be

3137
02:48:24,879 --> 02:48:27,400
Speaker 2: present in all of Europe. And basically the gist of

3138
02:48:27,480 --> 02:48:31,119
Speaker 2: the cordon sanitaire is you don't form a coalition because

3139
02:48:31,160 --> 02:48:34,840
Speaker 2: these are parliamentary democracies, right, so usually no one party

3140
02:48:34,959 --> 02:48:37,800
Speaker 2: has fifty percent or more of the vote. So you know,

3141
02:48:37,840 --> 02:48:39,680
Speaker 2: a party with twenty and a party with fifteen and

3142
02:48:39,760 --> 02:48:42,440
Speaker 2: a party with eight and they form a coalition government.

3143
02:48:42,640 --> 02:48:47,880
Speaker 2: And the norm for up until now, and thankfully is

3144
02:48:47,959 --> 02:48:49,640
Speaker 2: still the normal we'll talk about that is that you

3145
02:48:49,720 --> 02:48:53,000
Speaker 2: don't coalition with AfD, which is a part of why

3146
02:48:53,080 --> 02:48:57,320
Speaker 2: that and kind of lingering stigma about the Nazis kept

3147
02:48:57,360 --> 02:49:00,360
Speaker 2: them from being a major force in German politics until

3148
02:49:00,840 --> 02:49:03,280
Speaker 2: you know, over the last eight or so years they

3149
02:49:03,360 --> 02:49:07,800
Speaker 2: have grown substantially to the point where in this recent

3150
02:49:07,879 --> 02:49:10,640
Speaker 2: election they doubled their support from around ten percent to

3151
02:49:10,680 --> 02:49:14,880
Speaker 2: a little over twenty percent. This makes them they're not

3152
02:49:15,080 --> 02:49:19,959
Speaker 2: the largest single block in the German in the Reichstag,

3153
02:49:20,320 --> 02:49:23,160
Speaker 2: they're number two though, right they are number two, I believe,

3154
02:49:23,360 --> 02:49:24,520
Speaker 2: which sucks.

3155
02:49:24,959 --> 02:49:25,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's not great.

3156
02:49:25,920 --> 02:49:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the CDU is still significantly larger, although not like

3157
02:49:32,000 --> 02:49:38,040
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly larger, to be clear. So basically, right now, the CDU,

3158
02:49:38,200 --> 02:49:41,000
Speaker 2: which is the centrist party and it's kind of like

3159
02:49:41,160 --> 02:49:43,920
Speaker 2: center right, a little center right, has two hundred and

3160
02:49:43,920 --> 02:49:46,720
Speaker 2: eight seats in the Reichstag. AfD has one hundred and

3161
02:49:46,840 --> 02:49:50,320
Speaker 2: fifty two, the Social Democrats have one hundred and twenty,

3162
02:49:50,720 --> 02:49:53,600
Speaker 2: the Greens have eighty five, and the Left Party has

3163
02:49:53,720 --> 02:49:59,080
Speaker 2: sixty four. So AfD is a minority in the government

3164
02:49:59,240 --> 02:50:02,040
Speaker 2: compared to all of the people who didn't vote for AfD,

3165
02:50:02,560 --> 02:50:05,560
Speaker 2: but the rate at which they're increasing is a serious problem,

3166
02:50:05,680 --> 02:50:10,120
Speaker 2: especially since most Germans list immigration as their primary voting concern.

3167
02:50:10,240 --> 02:50:15,080
Speaker 2: Right now, this most recent election had unusually high voter

3168
02:50:15,280 --> 02:50:19,000
Speaker 2: turnout twenty twenty one election, seventy six percent of the

3169
02:50:19,040 --> 02:50:21,240
Speaker 2: country or so voted. More than eighty two percent of

3170
02:50:21,280 --> 02:50:24,840
Speaker 2: the country voted in this most recent election. So the

3171
02:50:24,920 --> 02:50:28,760
Speaker 2: fact that like you have record high turnout and AfD

3172
02:50:29,040 --> 02:50:33,440
Speaker 2: doubling its support is deeply chilling. Now, it's not one

3173
02:50:33,520 --> 02:50:37,680
Speaker 2: hundred percent bad news because one of the other stories

3174
02:50:37,760 --> 02:50:40,840
Speaker 2: here is the new Left Party, well not super new,

3175
02:50:40,920 --> 02:50:43,039
Speaker 2: but the Left Party, which is kind of came out

3176
02:50:43,240 --> 02:50:48,240
Speaker 2: of East Germany's Communist Party massively increased their support too,

3177
02:50:48,440 --> 02:50:52,519
Speaker 2: and they actually for the first time, like very significantly

3178
02:50:52,640 --> 02:50:55,520
Speaker 2: increased their share of the vote, which had been under

3179
02:50:55,560 --> 02:50:59,080
Speaker 2: this kind of five percent threshold before and is now

3180
02:50:59,120 --> 02:51:02,760
Speaker 2: at about eight point eight percent. So they went up

3181
02:51:03,400 --> 02:51:06,360
Speaker 2: by an amount. Actually it's not like as much as

3182
02:51:06,440 --> 02:51:08,960
Speaker 2: AfD went up, but like in terms of a percentage

3183
02:51:09,000 --> 02:51:13,440
Speaker 2: of their prior vote, it's a similar increase. So there's

3184
02:51:13,600 --> 02:51:17,440
Speaker 2: another party that had significant gains in this and it's

3185
02:51:17,480 --> 02:51:19,720
Speaker 2: kind of a newer party called the BSW, which is

3186
02:51:20,560 --> 02:51:22,280
Speaker 2: you could say they do a little bit of like

3187
02:51:22,360 --> 02:51:26,360
Speaker 2: a Red Brown Alliance kind of thing, where there's some

3188
02:51:26,520 --> 02:51:29,040
Speaker 2: like left wing messaging in what they're saying with they're

3189
02:51:29,040 --> 02:51:33,880
Speaker 2: also like super anti immigrant and they're not, you know,

3190
02:51:33,959 --> 02:51:35,880
Speaker 2: it's not kind of like to the extent that the

3191
02:51:36,040 --> 02:51:39,960
Speaker 2: AfD is. But when they came on to the scene,

3192
02:51:40,400 --> 02:51:44,160
Speaker 2: they were expected by some people to pull votes away

3193
02:51:44,480 --> 02:51:48,840
Speaker 2: from the AfD this selection, and that's really not what happened.

3194
02:51:48,879 --> 02:51:51,120
Speaker 2: And in fact, a lot of the votes they pulled

3195
02:51:51,160 --> 02:51:55,360
Speaker 2: were from Social Democrats and the left parties, so that

3196
02:51:55,600 --> 02:51:58,320
Speaker 2: was one of the you know, it's because the way

3197
02:51:58,360 --> 02:52:01,800
Speaker 2: the parliamentary system works, which is more rational than our system.

3198
02:52:01,920 --> 02:52:05,800
Speaker 2: This didn't like hand the whole election to off day again.

3199
02:52:05,879 --> 02:52:08,879
Speaker 2: This is the benefit of a system like the Germans had,

3200
02:52:08,879 --> 02:52:11,560
Speaker 2: which is pretty explicitly set up to make it a

3201
02:52:11,680 --> 02:52:13,280
Speaker 2: lot harder or a right.

3202
02:52:13,240 --> 02:52:14,920
Speaker 7: Wing dictator to get in again.

3203
02:52:15,520 --> 02:52:18,320
Speaker 2: But it is interesting to me that that kind of messaging,

3204
02:52:19,040 --> 02:52:21,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's further kind of evidence of what's been

3205
02:52:21,720 --> 02:52:26,200
Speaker 2: happening everywhere, which is when your party positions itself to

3206
02:52:26,400 --> 02:52:30,040
Speaker 2: try to win over far right votes by kind of

3207
02:52:30,120 --> 02:52:32,240
Speaker 2: mixing in Well, okay, what if we did some sort

3208
02:52:32,320 --> 02:52:35,280
Speaker 2: of you know, liberal lefty policies, but we also got

3209
02:52:35,360 --> 02:52:39,600
Speaker 2: really racist. You don't take votes from the far right,

3210
02:52:40,000 --> 02:52:42,840
Speaker 2: but you do wind up pulling the worst people from

3211
02:52:42,879 --> 02:52:47,680
Speaker 2: the left. Yeah, and yeah, I guess that's kind of

3212
02:52:47,840 --> 02:52:51,600
Speaker 2: like the broad strokes. Now, like this is bad, although

3213
02:52:51,640 --> 02:52:55,760
Speaker 2: it's also not comprehensively a nightmare. One of the things

3214
02:52:55,800 --> 02:52:58,120
Speaker 2: that's kind of I don't know, positive may not be

3215
02:52:58,200 --> 02:53:00,640
Speaker 2: the right. Wait, but interesting to me is if you

3216
02:53:00,840 --> 02:53:04,720
Speaker 2: looked at the twenty twenty one election maps of the

3217
02:53:04,879 --> 02:53:08,480
Speaker 2: strongest party by constituency in the twenty twenty one election,

3218
02:53:09,080 --> 02:53:11,959
Speaker 2: and I've found a good article German election results explaining

3219
02:53:12,040 --> 02:53:14,640
Speaker 2: graphics on DW dot com. If you just google that,

3220
02:53:14,720 --> 02:53:18,760
Speaker 2: you'll find it. In twenty twenty one. Off Day obviously,

3221
02:53:19,000 --> 02:53:23,800
Speaker 2: like the whole northeast was you know, their territory, but

3222
02:53:23,920 --> 02:53:27,760
Speaker 2: they also had strong inroads into the northwest parts of

3223
02:53:27,840 --> 02:53:30,640
Speaker 2: the country, right, you know, primarily like rural areas and

3224
02:53:30,680 --> 02:53:32,480
Speaker 2: the like. But like there was a there was a

3225
02:53:32,560 --> 02:53:35,280
Speaker 2: lot of red on that map in the northwest portion

3226
02:53:35,440 --> 02:53:40,200
Speaker 2: of Germany. In the new election, that's all black, which

3227
02:53:40,320 --> 02:53:46,400
Speaker 2: is the CDU right, Which means while off Day's representation

3228
02:53:46,520 --> 02:53:49,880
Speaker 2: in the Reichstag and like number of voters increased substantially,

3229
02:53:50,000 --> 02:53:54,680
Speaker 2: their geographical reach has been kind of cauterized. Yeah, would

3230
02:53:54,680 --> 02:53:56,120
Speaker 2: be in a fair way of saying it, which is

3231
02:53:56,240 --> 02:53:59,119
Speaker 2: which is interesting to me, hard to say too much,

3232
02:53:59,240 --> 02:54:01,240
Speaker 2: Like does that mean, you know, I think some of

3233
02:54:01,360 --> 02:54:04,879
Speaker 2: what has happened here, because it's important both to note

3234
02:54:04,920 --> 02:54:08,880
Speaker 2: that this is bad. It's bad that the Nazis doubled

3235
02:54:08,920 --> 02:54:11,560
Speaker 2: their share of the vote, but also it was expected

3236
02:54:11,640 --> 02:54:14,880
Speaker 2: to be a little worse than it was. You know,

3237
02:54:14,959 --> 02:54:18,520
Speaker 2: there's some evidence that after jd Vance made his speech

3238
02:54:18,640 --> 02:54:23,520
Speaker 2: introducing AfD, their pollings started to like freeze a little bit,

3239
02:54:24,040 --> 02:54:25,640
Speaker 2: and it may be the fact because a lot of

3240
02:54:25,720 --> 02:54:29,400
Speaker 2: older voters came in and they seem to have primarily

3241
02:54:29,520 --> 02:54:32,840
Speaker 2: gone with the CDU, with this sort of center right party.

3242
02:54:33,440 --> 02:54:36,240
Speaker 2: So one story here is you can maybe look at

3243
02:54:36,280 --> 02:54:39,840
Speaker 2: it as a lot of older, more conservative Germans who

3244
02:54:40,720 --> 02:54:43,199
Speaker 2: are also old enough to really not like the idea

3245
02:54:43,240 --> 02:54:47,440
Speaker 2: of the AfD, came out and voted for, you know,

3246
02:54:47,680 --> 02:54:50,200
Speaker 2: the center right party in order to kind of cut

3247
02:54:50,280 --> 02:54:53,960
Speaker 2: off their power. The other thing, though, that's kind of

3248
02:54:54,160 --> 02:54:57,600
Speaker 2: a lot less optimistic, is that AfD is most popular

3249
02:54:57,760 --> 02:55:01,800
Speaker 2: among people under thirty who don't view it as an

3250
02:55:01,840 --> 02:55:06,039
Speaker 2: extremist party, which is deeply, deeply concerning.

3251
02:55:06,200 --> 02:55:09,040
Speaker 21: And AfD won the majority of like working class, unemployed

3252
02:55:09,120 --> 02:55:10,680
Speaker 21: and male votes.

3253
02:55:11,080 --> 02:55:12,560
Speaker 9: Yes, yes, pretty substantially.

3254
02:55:13,400 --> 02:55:14,240
Speaker 25: Yes, they did.

3255
02:55:14,400 --> 02:55:18,600
Speaker 2: Extremely well with young men an unemployed young men in particular,

3256
02:55:19,280 --> 02:55:22,920
Speaker 2: and that's all deeply concerning. So, you know, there's a

3257
02:55:23,040 --> 02:55:25,760
Speaker 2: few things going on here, all of which are very

3258
02:55:25,879 --> 02:55:29,040
Speaker 2: interesting to me. But the power off Day continues to

3259
02:55:29,120 --> 02:55:33,879
Speaker 2: have with younger, really young Germans is frightening. That said,

3260
02:55:33,959 --> 02:55:39,320
Speaker 2: there's also some evidence here that the situation in the

3261
02:55:39,480 --> 02:55:43,040
Speaker 2: United States has galvanized a chunk of the German voting

3262
02:55:43,120 --> 02:55:46,720
Speaker 2: populace to attempt to stop off Day and kind of

3263
02:55:46,760 --> 02:55:48,760
Speaker 2: one of the positive things that came out is prior

3264
02:55:48,840 --> 02:55:51,240
Speaker 2: to this election, there was a lot of talk about

3265
02:55:51,320 --> 02:55:55,440
Speaker 2: whether or not the CDU would choose to coalition with

3266
02:55:55,560 --> 02:55:59,600
Speaker 2: the AfD and thus into the Cordon Sanitaire, And to

3267
02:55:59,680 --> 02:56:02,000
Speaker 2: make a long story short, they're not going to do that.

3268
02:56:02,160 --> 02:56:06,240
Speaker 2: They're looking to coalition with the Social Democrats, which is

3269
02:56:06,680 --> 02:56:08,600
Speaker 2: a good thing. You know, it doesn't mean no one

3270
02:56:08,600 --> 02:56:11,160
Speaker 2: will do that in the future. And unfortunately a majority

3271
02:56:11,320 --> 02:56:15,359
Speaker 2: of German voters suspect AfD will be in a coalition

3272
02:56:15,520 --> 02:56:19,840
Speaker 2: by twenty thirty, but it hasn't happened yet. And that's

3273
02:56:19,879 --> 02:56:22,440
Speaker 2: as good as things get right now. And that's what

3274
02:56:22,520 --> 02:56:23,600
Speaker 2: I got to say about Germany.

3275
02:56:24,160 --> 02:56:26,000
Speaker 21: Yeah, I mean, and people frame these results is like

3276
02:56:26,040 --> 02:56:31,120
Speaker 21: slightly better than expected, slightly. Previous pulling showed AfD being

3277
02:56:31,640 --> 02:56:35,560
Speaker 21: being slightly better in results, and that dipped for vance

3278
02:56:35,680 --> 02:56:40,320
Speaker 21: and Musk started really trying to push AfD, both in

3279
02:56:40,440 --> 02:56:44,000
Speaker 21: person and digitally, so you saw a slight dip there.

3280
02:56:44,320 --> 02:56:46,880
Speaker 2: Yes, And this is the other thing that's kind of

3281
02:56:46,959 --> 02:56:50,880
Speaker 2: worth noting that kind of like red Brown Party, in

3282
02:56:50,959 --> 02:56:55,840
Speaker 2: addition to being kind of pro social programs, anti immigration,

3283
02:56:55,959 --> 02:56:57,920
Speaker 2: they're also very anti United States.

3284
02:56:58,320 --> 02:57:04,840
Speaker 9: Okay, so uh, that may explain some of that too. Yeah,

3285
02:57:05,040 --> 02:57:06,720
Speaker 9: it does seem like things are changing a lot. And

3286
02:57:06,760 --> 02:57:08,680
Speaker 9: one of the things that we've seen, like les we've

3287
02:57:08,680 --> 02:57:11,160
Speaker 9: spoken aboutfore, like not just in Germany, being Canada, was that,

3288
02:57:11,360 --> 02:57:15,520
Speaker 9: like people hate Musk and Trump so much in the

3289
02:57:15,600 --> 02:57:18,160
Speaker 9: rest of the world that like their endorsement could be

3290
02:57:18,200 --> 02:57:20,199
Speaker 9: something of a kiss of death electorally.

3291
02:57:20,440 --> 02:57:20,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3292
02:57:20,840 --> 02:57:23,280
Speaker 21: Yeah, Like the Conservative Party in Canada has been growing

3293
02:57:23,320 --> 02:57:26,360
Speaker 21: pretty exponentially in terms of like popular support the past

3294
02:57:26,440 --> 02:57:29,160
Speaker 21: few years as the Liberals have like tanked, and now

3295
02:57:29,320 --> 02:57:32,440
Speaker 21: those trends that actually started to reverse. The Canadian like

3296
02:57:32,600 --> 02:57:35,480
Speaker 21: Liberal polling is up ten points, the Conservative pulling is down.

3297
02:57:35,879 --> 02:57:38,640
Speaker 21: Conservatives might not even be able to control Parliament in

3298
02:57:38,680 --> 02:57:41,760
Speaker 21: the next election as they were like expected to. And

3299
02:57:42,000 --> 02:57:43,920
Speaker 21: it'll be interesting to see like if this if this

3300
02:57:44,080 --> 02:57:47,840
Speaker 21: anti like far right United States trend continues to more

3301
02:57:47,879 --> 02:57:51,800
Speaker 21: countries beyond like Germany in Canada. But I'm still still eagerly,

3302
02:57:52,120 --> 02:57:54,520
Speaker 21: eagerly waiting for the next Canadian election.

3303
02:57:55,080 --> 02:57:56,840
Speaker 2: And this is part of the story that is really

3304
02:57:56,920 --> 02:57:58,880
Speaker 2: interesting right now. Where we've talked a lot about the

3305
02:57:59,040 --> 02:58:03,800
Speaker 2: transnational fascist coalition. You know the fact that Trump and

3306
02:58:03,959 --> 02:58:07,480
Speaker 2: his people have had the quasi dictator of Hungary, you know,

3307
02:58:07,760 --> 02:58:10,200
Speaker 2: over at mar A Lago, and have repeatedly cited him

3308
02:58:10,240 --> 02:58:13,400
Speaker 2: as an inspiration for how to take and centralized power.

3309
02:58:13,879 --> 02:58:17,320
Speaker 2: You know how close Polsonyaro was in the last Trump administration.

3310
02:58:17,560 --> 02:58:22,080
Speaker 2: Like you know, obviously the Republican parties increasing closeness and

3311
02:58:22,240 --> 02:58:26,560
Speaker 2: embrace of Putin's Russia. But what also is happening right

3312
02:58:26,640 --> 02:58:31,360
Speaker 2: now is people like countries that had been heading in

3313
02:58:31,400 --> 02:58:37,000
Speaker 2: a very more authoritarian right wing direction turning around in

3314
02:58:37,240 --> 02:58:40,880
Speaker 2: part due to the war in Ukraine and turning away

3315
02:58:41,360 --> 02:58:45,359
Speaker 2: from kind of the international right wing movement, as Poland

3316
02:58:45,440 --> 02:58:49,160
Speaker 2: being the best example right whereland. Polish politics have changed

3317
02:58:49,200 --> 02:58:53,119
Speaker 2: substantially in the last several years, and a big part

3318
02:58:53,160 --> 02:58:55,560
Speaker 2: of that is the war in Ukraine and a lot

3319
02:58:55,640 --> 02:58:57,800
Speaker 2: there are a lot of Poles who I think otherwise

3320
02:58:57,800 --> 02:58:59,560
Speaker 2: would have been more on board for a lot of

3321
02:58:59,560 --> 02:59:02,480
Speaker 2: the social conservative shit who are like, well, but all

3322
02:59:02,520 --> 02:59:07,240
Speaker 2: these fuckers are pro Russia and we're pulling it, like no.

3323
02:59:10,360 --> 02:59:13,720
Speaker 21: All right, let's go on a break and return to

3324
02:59:13,760 --> 02:59:18,240
Speaker 21: talk more about the crumbling world. And you said, yeah,

3325
02:59:30,800 --> 02:59:33,960
Speaker 21: all right, we are back I'm gonna throw to James

3326
02:59:34,120 --> 02:59:37,599
Speaker 21: to do a segment on USAID.

3327
02:59:38,280 --> 02:59:40,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, we are back. And before I talk about USAD,

3328
02:59:40,560 --> 02:59:42,040
Speaker 9: I do want to talk about something else that has

3329
02:59:42,120 --> 02:59:45,440
Speaker 9: been advertised along with whatever products and services support this show.

3330
02:59:46,080 --> 02:59:49,240
Speaker 9: That is the Gold Card. So the Gold Card if

3331
02:59:49,240 --> 02:59:51,480
Speaker 9: You're not Familiar, is something that Trump floated this week

3332
02:59:51,720 --> 02:59:55,680
Speaker 9: to replace the EB five investor visa. Trump suggested that

3333
02:59:55,920 --> 02:59:59,160
Speaker 9: the Gold Card it would require a five million dollar

3334
02:59:59,360 --> 03:00:03,320
Speaker 9: investment investment. I think it's just a charge, right, You're

3335
03:00:03,360 --> 03:00:06,160
Speaker 9: just giving the money to the United States government, and

3336
03:00:06,240 --> 03:00:10,199
Speaker 9: in return you will receive a Green card plus privileges,

3337
03:00:10,920 --> 03:00:13,800
Speaker 9: and it will be not a green but a Gold card.

3338
03:00:14,360 --> 03:00:14,960
Speaker 25: So that's great.

3339
03:00:15,160 --> 03:00:17,480
Speaker 9: That is the EB five vs Or if You're not

3340
03:00:17,520 --> 03:00:21,320
Speaker 9: familiar required you Since twenty twenty two, it's been one

3341
03:00:21,440 --> 03:00:25,040
Speaker 9: million and fifty thousand dollars investment and the creation of

3342
03:00:25,160 --> 03:00:28,640
Speaker 9: ten jobs. So it had some kind of like it

3343
03:00:28,760 --> 03:00:31,120
Speaker 9: trickled down economics. It's not a real thing. It's a

3344
03:00:31,240 --> 03:00:33,880
Speaker 9: lie that they tell you, but it had some idea

3345
03:00:33,959 --> 03:00:37,400
Speaker 9: that these rich people would create jobs in the US

3346
03:00:37,520 --> 03:00:40,280
Speaker 9: people who are less wealthy. The Gold card seems to

3347
03:00:40,360 --> 03:00:42,480
Speaker 9: not have that. You just have to be rich right.

3348
03:00:42,760 --> 03:00:45,520
Speaker 9: So that's a that's an interesting change to the immigration system.

3349
03:00:46,200 --> 03:00:48,520
Speaker 9: The other thing I want to talk about today is

3350
03:00:48,560 --> 03:00:52,360
Speaker 9: a United States Agency for International Development, better known as USAID.

3351
03:00:53,360 --> 03:00:56,080
Speaker 9: It's been a target of like the anti work right

3352
03:00:56,520 --> 03:01:00,320
Speaker 9: for some time because they fundamentally don't understand what Joseph

3353
03:01:00,360 --> 03:01:03,360
Speaker 9: Nia would have called soft power, right, their power to persuade,

3354
03:01:03,879 --> 03:01:06,440
Speaker 9: the power to influence outcomes around the world with things

3355
03:01:06,520 --> 03:01:08,120
Speaker 9: other than tanks and bonds.

3356
03:01:08,120 --> 03:01:12,160
Speaker 2: Oh and again, if your power is soft right now,

3357
03:01:12,680 --> 03:01:16,760
Speaker 2: you might consider trying Hymns or one of our other sponsors.

3358
03:01:17,120 --> 03:01:19,800
Speaker 9: Gyms is not a sponsor. Sorry, Jams, we needed to

3359
03:01:19,920 --> 03:01:22,760
Speaker 9: do that, but I have been diverted by returning to

3360
03:01:22,879 --> 03:01:28,480
Speaker 9: my topic. Yeah, the agency has been massively impacted by

3361
03:01:28,760 --> 03:01:33,359
Speaker 9: DOGE and Trump administration cuts right. The Trump administration suspended

3362
03:01:33,480 --> 03:01:36,000
Speaker 9: all foreign aid in January via executive order on the

3363
03:01:36,040 --> 03:01:38,400
Speaker 9: twentieth of January in order to assess if it was

3364
03:01:38,520 --> 03:01:43,199
Speaker 9: quote serving US interests. The State Department then issued guidance

3365
03:01:43,320 --> 03:01:45,760
Speaker 9: that seemed to go beyond the executive order and cut

3366
03:01:45,920 --> 03:01:49,960
Speaker 9: nearly basically all USAI the expensive on the thirteenth of

3367
03:01:50,040 --> 03:01:52,720
Speaker 9: this month, that's February if you're listening. Later, A judges

3368
03:01:52,720 --> 03:01:57,000
Speaker 9: shoed a temporary restraining order. This TIERRO didn't really stop

3369
03:01:57,080 --> 03:02:00,400
Speaker 9: them from doing what they were doing, because it told

3370
03:02:00,440 --> 03:02:03,640
Speaker 9: them to continue with existing contracts. And what the State

3371
03:02:03,720 --> 03:02:07,320
Speaker 9: Department claims that it's doing is implementing clauses that are

3372
03:02:07,360 --> 03:02:09,680
Speaker 9: already in the contract so that the contracts will have

3373
03:02:09,760 --> 03:02:12,199
Speaker 9: some kind of kill clause, right, and that they claim

3374
03:02:12,240 --> 03:02:15,840
Speaker 9: that they're implementing that, so they think they've found a

3375
03:02:15,920 --> 03:02:19,199
Speaker 9: fun work around. Rather than talking extensively about court battles,

3376
03:02:19,200 --> 03:02:21,200
Speaker 9: I want to talk about what this means. These are

3377
03:02:21,280 --> 03:02:23,960
Speaker 9: cuts made by the richest man in the world that

3378
03:02:24,120 --> 03:02:26,800
Speaker 9: have had a direct, tangible, and devastating impact on the

3379
03:02:26,879 --> 03:02:30,720
Speaker 9: poorest people on the planet. In Sudan, eighty percent of

3380
03:02:30,800 --> 03:02:34,120
Speaker 9: emergency kitchens have been closed. That means that close to

3381
03:02:34,240 --> 03:02:38,440
Speaker 9: two million people will go without food. Local groups organizer

3382
03:02:38,520 --> 03:02:42,560
Speaker 9: kitchens are running out of money. The way this works

3383
03:02:42,760 --> 03:02:48,000
Speaker 9: is that even when Rubio issued a communication talking about

3384
03:02:48,040 --> 03:02:51,960
Speaker 9: continuing food aid, it's unclear exactly what that means, because

3385
03:02:52,000 --> 03:02:55,200
Speaker 9: in this case and in other cases, USAID is sending

3386
03:02:55,280 --> 03:02:58,760
Speaker 9: them money in order to provision themselves locally, as opposed

3387
03:02:58,800 --> 03:03:02,280
Speaker 9: to sending them food as an in kind donation. Right,

3388
03:03:02,760 --> 03:03:07,120
Speaker 9: whatever he communicated, these people are not getting food an

3389
03:03:07,120 --> 03:03:09,440
Speaker 9: as a result, the people who run these mutual aid

3390
03:03:09,520 --> 03:03:14,000
Speaker 9: kitchens it's a mutual aid coalition of Sudan are facing

3391
03:03:14,040 --> 03:03:16,160
Speaker 9: the horrible decision of having to turn people away it

3392
03:03:16,320 --> 03:03:19,680
Speaker 9: or deciding who to feed, which is pretty bad. On

3393
03:03:19,879 --> 03:03:22,600
Speaker 9: the border between Thailand and Myanmay, a place where Robert

3394
03:03:22,640 --> 03:03:24,840
Speaker 9: and I have been to report, I've heard that people

3395
03:03:24,879 --> 03:03:27,359
Speaker 9: are having babies right now outside a lot of clinics

3396
03:03:27,920 --> 03:03:30,160
Speaker 9: and life support machines have been removed for it, so

3397
03:03:30,240 --> 03:03:32,800
Speaker 9: people who were relying on those life support machines obviously, and.

3398
03:03:32,879 --> 03:03:35,160
Speaker 2: At least one person has died, yeah.

3399
03:03:35,280 --> 03:03:37,760
Speaker 9: And I'm sure many many more people than that have done.

3400
03:03:37,840 --> 03:03:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3401
03:03:38,040 --> 03:03:41,440
Speaker 2: I mean that's just what's reported. Like it's a lot

3402
03:03:41,480 --> 03:03:43,560
Speaker 2: of most of what happens there does not get out.

3403
03:03:44,080 --> 03:03:44,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3404
03:03:44,440 --> 03:03:47,800
Speaker 9: I will try in not too long to be there

3405
03:03:47,840 --> 03:03:50,840
Speaker 9: and report on that. But it's pretty devastating right now

3406
03:03:50,879 --> 03:03:52,400
Speaker 9: that Robert and I have met the people who run

3407
03:03:52,480 --> 03:03:54,160
Speaker 9: some of these clinics, and they are some of the

3408
03:03:54,400 --> 03:03:58,920
Speaker 9: most incredible people doing amazing work. And yeah, they relied

3409
03:03:59,000 --> 03:04:02,040
Speaker 9: on USAA funding, as lots of other places do, and

3410
03:04:02,520 --> 03:04:06,920
Speaker 9: that's not happening now. The State Department has exempted quote

3411
03:04:07,080 --> 03:04:11,520
Speaker 9: life saving humanitarian assistance programs from the cuts, but no

3412
03:04:11,600 --> 03:04:13,240
Speaker 9: one really knows what that means.

3413
03:04:13,440 --> 03:04:13,560
Speaker 4: Right.

3414
03:04:13,680 --> 03:04:17,400
Speaker 9: The order reads, quote life saving humanitarian assistance applies to

3415
03:04:17,600 --> 03:04:23,040
Speaker 9: core life saving medicine, medical services, food, shelter and subsistence assistance,

3416
03:04:23,320 --> 03:04:26,480
Speaker 9: as well as supplies and reasonable administrative cost as necessary

3417
03:04:26,560 --> 03:04:30,040
Speaker 9: to deliver such assistance. As I mentioned before, the mutual

3418
03:04:30,040 --> 03:04:33,640
Speaker 9: AIDS who are in coalition was receiving financial assistant to

3419
03:04:33,720 --> 03:04:36,040
Speaker 9: help it provision itself, right, which is much better than

3420
03:04:36,080 --> 03:04:40,240
Speaker 9: the US going through all the infrastructure spending of being

3421
03:04:40,280 --> 03:04:44,720
Speaker 9: able to deliver that aid itself or through USAID contractors.

3422
03:04:45,240 --> 03:04:49,360
Speaker 9: Other contractors implementing partners of USAID are still owed money

3423
03:04:49,640 --> 03:04:52,560
Speaker 9: for work that they completed before January, before the stop

3424
03:04:52,600 --> 03:04:55,640
Speaker 9: Work Order stopped payment to them. For work to begin

3425
03:04:55,760 --> 03:04:59,080
Speaker 9: again on any of these contracts, they need the contract

3426
03:04:59,200 --> 03:05:01,280
Speaker 9: officer to sign up on it, and it's at a

3427
03:05:01,400 --> 03:05:03,920
Speaker 9: lunclear exactly how many of these contract offices are still

3428
03:05:03,920 --> 03:05:08,680
Speaker 9: employed at USAID because of the federal employment cuts, So

3429
03:05:09,640 --> 03:05:14,039
Speaker 9: essentially USAID has stopped all over the world. In addition

3430
03:05:14,160 --> 03:05:17,920
Speaker 9: to this, in this country, four hundred and ninety million

3431
03:05:18,080 --> 03:05:21,720
Speaker 9: dollars worth of US grown food, which is in the

3432
03:05:21,840 --> 03:05:24,840
Speaker 9: USAID pipeline to go to people who very desperately needed food,

3433
03:05:25,000 --> 03:05:28,520
Speaker 9: is currently at risk of spoilage according to USAID. So

3434
03:05:29,000 --> 03:05:31,160
Speaker 9: it's not just that people are starving, it's that we

3435
03:05:31,280 --> 03:05:35,760
Speaker 9: are allowing food to go bad here while people starve

3436
03:05:35,920 --> 03:05:39,160
Speaker 9: in other places, which is pretty bleak. I will just

3437
03:05:39,280 --> 03:05:42,080
Speaker 9: really briefly hear plug the Mutual AIDS Sudan Coalition. If

3438
03:05:42,080 --> 03:05:44,880
Speaker 9: you'd like to help, you can direct to them directly,

3439
03:05:44,959 --> 03:05:47,720
Speaker 9: and it's Mutual AIDS Sudan Dorg. If you'd like to

3440
03:05:47,760 --> 03:05:49,360
Speaker 9: do that. It'll be in the show notes too if

3441
03:05:49,400 --> 03:05:50,320
Speaker 9: you're driving or whatever.

3442
03:05:51,200 --> 03:05:55,360
Speaker 21: And there is like ongoing legal fights over this issue.

3443
03:05:56,040 --> 03:06:01,519
Speaker 21: On Tuesday, February twenty fifth, another ordered the Trump administration

3444
03:06:01,680 --> 03:06:06,519
Speaker 21: to resume hundreds of million dollars of funding towards USAID,

3445
03:06:07,360 --> 03:06:11,160
Speaker 21: and there's no indication Trump's going to follow that order.

3446
03:06:11,720 --> 03:06:17,400
Speaker 21: They're already planning to appeal again. They have already appealed before.

3447
03:06:18,200 --> 03:06:22,160
Speaker 21: And like we've seen them continually deny court orders from judges,

3448
03:06:22,360 --> 03:06:26,280
Speaker 21: fine loopholes, fine workarounds, and Musk and Trump continue to

3449
03:06:26,360 --> 03:06:29,000
Speaker 21: just openly float like defying the order of the Court.

3450
03:06:29,440 --> 03:06:35,080
Speaker 21: Representative Andy Ogles introduced articles have appeachment against a specific

3451
03:06:35,760 --> 03:06:39,039
Speaker 21: quote unquote activist judge. This will go nowhere. They don't

3452
03:06:39,080 --> 03:06:41,840
Speaker 21: have nearly enough numbers to make anything like this happen.

3453
03:06:42,720 --> 03:06:45,959
Speaker 9: It's a frontal assault on the separation of powers. It's

3454
03:06:46,000 --> 03:06:49,320
Speaker 9: what he's proposed, right, And like they don't have their

3455
03:06:49,360 --> 03:06:50,080
Speaker 9: numbers yet.

3456
03:06:50,520 --> 03:06:53,000
Speaker 21: Yes, well, and then they have openly floated just like

3457
03:06:53,120 --> 03:06:56,480
Speaker 21: defying orders because they are they're interpreting the actions of

3458
03:06:56,520 --> 03:07:00,480
Speaker 21: the judges as like themselves, unlawful. But must have himself

3459
03:07:00,560 --> 03:07:04,240
Speaker 21: called to impeach judges who violate the law. And I

3460
03:07:04,360 --> 03:07:10,760
Speaker 21: believe his his most recent pinned pinned x posts reads

3461
03:07:10,879 --> 03:07:15,440
Speaker 21: quote if any judge anywhere can block every presidential action everywhere,

3462
03:07:15,640 --> 03:07:17,959
Speaker 21: we do not have a democracy. We have a tyranny

3463
03:07:18,080 --> 03:07:19,119
Speaker 21: of the judiciary.

3464
03:07:20,360 --> 03:07:24,080
Speaker 2: So what a great legal mind shit we were saying,

3465
03:07:24,200 --> 03:07:25,760
Speaker 2: and back in twenty twenty three.

3466
03:07:27,400 --> 03:07:29,040
Speaker 9: So this, this will continue.

3467
03:07:29,080 --> 03:07:32,400
Speaker 21: I mean, I'm really really waiting for a final showdown

3468
03:07:32,480 --> 03:07:36,320
Speaker 21: between Trump Elon and you know, maybe the Supreme Court,

3469
03:07:36,720 --> 03:07:39,360
Speaker 21: and you know, seeing seeing if they will actively defy

3470
03:07:39,480 --> 03:07:42,120
Speaker 21: a ruling from the Supreme Court, if they indeed rule

3471
03:07:42,160 --> 03:07:44,960
Speaker 21: against Trump and Musque. But until then, I feel like

3472
03:07:45,000 --> 03:07:48,840
Speaker 21: we're just kind of all chugging along as the Trump administration,

3473
03:07:49,000 --> 03:07:52,520
Speaker 21: you know, very very unconstitutionally defies the authority of the Court.

3474
03:07:53,600 --> 03:07:56,920
Speaker 21: In some related news, last week, President Trump signed in

3475
03:07:57,000 --> 03:08:01,720
Speaker 21: executive order stating that the president can change law erroneously,

3476
03:08:01,920 --> 03:08:04,880
Speaker 21: citing Article two, which only calls for the presidents to

3477
03:08:05,280 --> 03:08:07,360
Speaker 21: quote faithfully execute the law.

3478
03:08:08,200 --> 03:08:09,400
Speaker 9: I'm to quote from the.

3479
03:08:09,480 --> 03:08:12,280
Speaker 21: Order, the President and the Attorney General, subject to the

3480
03:08:12,320 --> 03:08:16,240
Speaker 21: President's of supervision and control, will interpret the law for

3481
03:08:16,400 --> 03:08:22,119
Speaker 21: the executive branch, instead of having separate agencies adopt conflicting interpretations.

3482
03:08:22,840 --> 03:08:26,880
Speaker 21: The next section is titled reigning in independent Agencies. It

3483
03:08:27,000 --> 03:08:30,840
Speaker 21: reads the Federal Trade Commission, the Federal Communications Commission, and

3484
03:08:31,040 --> 03:08:35,000
Speaker 21: Securities and Exchange Commission have exercised enormous power over the

3485
03:08:35,040 --> 03:08:39,040
Speaker 21: American people without presidential oversight. These agencies issue rules and

3486
03:08:39,080 --> 03:08:43,320
Speaker 21: regulations without the review of the democratically elected president. They

3487
03:08:43,400 --> 03:08:46,560
Speaker 21: also spend American tax dollars to set priorities without consulting

3488
03:08:46,600 --> 03:08:49,560
Speaker 21: the President. Voters and the President can now hold all

3489
03:08:49,760 --> 03:08:53,880
Speaker 21: federal agencies, not just cabinet departments, responsible for their decisions,

3490
03:08:54,240 --> 03:08:59,280
Speaker 21: as the Constitution demands, unquote. This is absurd. This is

3491
03:08:59,400 --> 03:09:02,520
Speaker 21: like extreme, seemly dangerous, one of the most like blatant

3492
03:09:02,640 --> 03:09:06,280
Speaker 21: like attempts at power that we've seen since Dick Nixon.

3493
03:09:06,800 --> 03:09:09,800
Speaker 21: Like this is gonna get litigated, but this is crazy.

3494
03:09:10,040 --> 03:09:12,360
Speaker 21: The the fact that that we have that we have

3495
03:09:12,440 --> 03:09:15,320
Speaker 21: a president saying that he has the ability to interpret

3496
03:09:15,360 --> 03:09:18,119
Speaker 21: the law something that specifically he cannot do. That's why,

3497
03:09:18,160 --> 03:09:21,000
Speaker 21: that's why we have three branches of government, just like

3498
03:09:21,120 --> 03:09:25,199
Speaker 21: openly openly claiming that power is like very worrying. Again,

3499
03:09:25,240 --> 03:09:28,040
Speaker 21: like I feel like every episode on Executive Disorder I

3500
03:09:28,160 --> 03:09:30,920
Speaker 21: say that, you know, I'm very worried. I'm very concerned,

3501
03:09:31,200 --> 03:09:32,840
Speaker 21: but that does continue to be the case.

3502
03:09:33,360 --> 03:09:36,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, it is very concerning. I don't know what more

3503
03:09:36,320 --> 03:09:39,640
Speaker 9: to say, because it's mad, like we're watching a coup

3504
03:09:39,680 --> 03:09:43,480
Speaker 9: happen on the timeline while everyone just continues to go

3505
03:09:43,600 --> 03:09:46,879
Speaker 9: shopping and stuff like it's it's it's pretty weird.

3506
03:09:47,080 --> 03:09:50,360
Speaker 21: Speaking speaking of shopping, I just got a fantastic Swedish

3507
03:09:50,560 --> 03:09:54,040
Speaker 21: M ninety feel jacket. It looks great, it fits tight.

3508
03:09:54,480 --> 03:09:57,000
Speaker 9: I'm very happy, incredible. Garrison's becoming a mill sup.

3509
03:09:57,360 --> 03:10:00,959
Speaker 21: We will go on break once again to come back

3510
03:10:01,000 --> 03:10:03,800
Speaker 21: to talk about the Navy and the FBI.

3511
03:10:15,800 --> 03:10:17,160
Speaker 3: All right, we are back.

3512
03:10:18,640 --> 03:10:22,160
Speaker 21: Let's now talk about the Navy, arguably one of the

3513
03:10:22,240 --> 03:10:27,000
Speaker 21: gayer branches of the military, besides the besides the drone operators.

3514
03:10:27,280 --> 03:10:32,320
Speaker 2: Oh you're you're really missing out on the Marine. As

3515
03:10:32,480 --> 03:10:35,840
Speaker 2: multiple Marine veterans have told me, the US Marine Corps

3516
03:10:35,879 --> 03:10:39,080
Speaker 2: is the gayest place I've ever been. The Marines are

3517
03:10:39,160 --> 03:10:41,520
Speaker 2: like part of the Navy, right, come on, they are,

3518
03:10:41,680 --> 03:10:44,240
Speaker 2: they are, they are, and they hate it when you say.

3519
03:10:44,160 --> 03:10:47,920
Speaker 21: Oh, well, wait, wait, go cry about Daddy Trump.

3520
03:10:47,959 --> 03:10:48,400
Speaker 5: I don't care.

3521
03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:50,600
Speaker 25: It's a lot of fun.

3522
03:10:51,080 --> 03:10:52,160
Speaker 7: It's a lot of fun.

3523
03:10:52,760 --> 03:10:56,440
Speaker 21: So meanwhile, there's a shakeups in the Navy and the

3524
03:10:56,520 --> 03:11:00,480
Speaker 21: Marines relating to Trump's anti trans executive orders. And we

3525
03:11:00,560 --> 03:11:03,199
Speaker 21: have obtained an al NAVE memo directed to all Navy

3526
03:11:03,280 --> 03:11:07,480
Speaker 21: units and Marine Corps from February twenty fifth that outlines

3527
03:11:07,520 --> 03:11:10,320
Speaker 21: the Department of Navy's guidance on how to implement the

3528
03:11:10,320 --> 03:11:13,720
Speaker 21: anti trans executive orders. Now, this includes ending programs and

3529
03:11:13,760 --> 03:11:17,480
Speaker 21: policies related to quote unquote gender ideology all across the Navy,

3530
03:11:18,120 --> 03:11:21,040
Speaker 21: as well as only using assigned sex at birth on

3531
03:11:21,160 --> 03:11:27,840
Speaker 21: official documentation. I will quote from the statement quote don

3532
03:11:28,040 --> 03:11:31,880
Speaker 21: entities will review policies for quote unquote intimate single sex

3533
03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:35,240
Speaker 21: spaces and take appropriate action to ensure such spaces are

3534
03:11:35,280 --> 03:11:39,800
Speaker 21: designated by sex and not gender identity on installations, facilities, ships,

3535
03:11:40,080 --> 03:11:43,080
Speaker 21: and any other infrastructure under the jurisdiction of the Department

3536
03:11:43,120 --> 03:11:47,760
Speaker 21: of Navy unquote. So this will force women into bathrooms

3537
03:11:47,879 --> 03:11:51,480
Speaker 21: and barracks with men. It's in line with the stuff

3538
03:11:51,520 --> 03:11:53,800
Speaker 21: that Trump's been talking about and the stuff that he's

3539
03:11:53,840 --> 03:11:56,640
Speaker 21: been signing. But we are slowly getting more and more

3540
03:11:56,680 --> 03:11:59,959
Speaker 21: of these implementation guides getting sent around to various department

3541
03:12:00,080 --> 03:12:01,039
Speaker 21: and James.

3542
03:12:01,600 --> 03:12:05,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, and like, just to clarify that to people, most

3543
03:12:05,879 --> 03:12:08,360
Speaker 9: of these bases are pretty full, right, These are pretty

3544
03:12:08,360 --> 03:12:12,080
Speaker 9: crowded places. So this will mean women sharing rooms with

3545
03:12:12,240 --> 03:12:16,560
Speaker 9: young marines, right. This will meet them sharing non stalled

3546
03:12:16,680 --> 03:12:21,160
Speaker 9: bathrooms with young sailors and marines, right. This will force

3547
03:12:21,240 --> 03:12:24,840
Speaker 9: them into very confined spaces together on board ships. Like

3548
03:12:25,040 --> 03:12:29,519
Speaker 9: this isn't like some kind of sort of minor inconvenience

3549
03:12:29,640 --> 03:12:31,320
Speaker 9: or whatever like this, this will put these people a

3550
03:12:31,879 --> 03:12:37,600
Speaker 9: demonstrable risk for assault, for bullying, which is a serious

3551
03:12:37,680 --> 03:12:40,200
Speaker 9: thing and an issue in lots of militaries, including the

3552
03:12:40,280 --> 03:12:43,080
Speaker 9: US one. But like and many of these people, I

3553
03:12:43,080 --> 03:12:46,440
Speaker 9: should add, like have had that they're like post surgery, right,

3554
03:12:47,200 --> 03:12:50,880
Speaker 9: and not that it matters hugely, but they're people who

3555
03:12:50,959 --> 03:12:53,959
Speaker 9: might pass as women or men, and they're now forced

3556
03:12:54,000 --> 03:12:58,000
Speaker 9: to live according to their gender assigned at birth. Pretty

3557
03:12:58,560 --> 03:12:59,280
Speaker 9: fucked up.

3558
03:13:00,160 --> 03:13:00,720
Speaker 3: It's not great.

3559
03:13:00,920 --> 03:13:04,760
Speaker 21: I'm going to wait before I do reporting on the

3560
03:13:05,520 --> 03:13:08,480
Speaker 21: implementation guides for visas. I know there's been a lot

3561
03:13:08,560 --> 03:13:11,640
Speaker 21: of articles in the Guardian and a few trans journalists

3562
03:13:12,000 --> 03:13:16,120
Speaker 21: have conflicting interpretations of a few Department of State cables

3563
03:13:16,480 --> 03:13:22,560
Speaker 21: regarding the issuing of visas to people who are trans Specifically,

3564
03:13:22,640 --> 03:13:25,960
Speaker 21: I think the main cable that we've seen allows the

3565
03:13:26,040 --> 03:13:31,120
Speaker 21: continued issuance of visas, but that would only match what

3566
03:13:31,320 --> 03:13:34,760
Speaker 21: the the the case officer or like the whoever whoever

3567
03:13:34,879 --> 03:13:38,000
Speaker 21: is like handling the actual these information whatever they determined

3568
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:40,040
Speaker 21: to be the assigned gender at birth to be. Yeah,

3569
03:13:40,280 --> 03:13:42,800
Speaker 21: that's that's how it would get issued. But I'm going

3570
03:13:42,840 --> 03:13:45,480
Speaker 21: to wait to report on kind of the rest of

3571
03:13:45,560 --> 03:13:50,680
Speaker 21: the nitty gritty details, because there is conflicting information from

3572
03:13:50,840 --> 03:13:54,360
Speaker 21: like from like these like policy wonks, lawyers and journalists

3573
03:13:54,360 --> 03:13:56,360
Speaker 21: themselves who are trying to figure out kind of what

3574
03:13:56,480 --> 03:14:00,120
Speaker 21: the full implications of those cables are, but we are

3575
03:14:00,120 --> 03:14:02,640
Speaker 21: aware of them. We've been talking about them in our chat.

3576
03:14:03,120 --> 03:14:05,840
Speaker 21: Yes they are bad, but I don't necessarily want to

3577
03:14:05,920 --> 03:14:09,600
Speaker 21: like overblow the scope of some of these things just

3578
03:14:09,680 --> 03:14:12,800
Speaker 21: to like induce panic when really this is all kind

3579
03:14:12,840 --> 03:14:16,000
Speaker 21: of vary in line with Trump's earlier orders to only

3580
03:14:16,120 --> 03:14:20,440
Speaker 21: have male and female documentation that matches a signed gender

3581
03:14:20,520 --> 03:14:20,880
Speaker 21: at birth.

3582
03:14:21,160 --> 03:14:24,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would say. Also, like, if you are soldier,

3583
03:14:24,959 --> 03:14:29,200
Speaker 9: sailor em and a person marine whatever, and like these

3584
03:14:29,400 --> 03:14:32,680
Speaker 9: these gexty voters are affecting you, you can email us

3585
03:14:33,240 --> 03:14:35,520
Speaker 9: at cool Zone, tips at proton dot me. I know

3586
03:14:35,640 --> 03:14:38,320
Speaker 9: trans folks tend to serve at a higher rate than

3587
03:14:38,400 --> 03:14:41,640
Speaker 9: cisgender folks, so its a good number of people who

3588
03:14:41,640 --> 03:14:45,200
Speaker 9: will be affected by this. And like, for whatever it's worth,

3589
03:14:45,320 --> 03:14:46,640
Speaker 9: if you want to talk to us, you can reach

3590
03:14:46,680 --> 03:14:47,080
Speaker 9: out to us.

3591
03:14:47,800 --> 03:14:50,880
Speaker 21: I'm also going to note we obtain information on the

3592
03:14:51,080 --> 03:14:55,720
Speaker 21: Department of Defense removing travel coverage for abortion. On January eighteenth,

3593
03:14:55,760 --> 03:14:58,400
Speaker 21: the Department of Defense Travel Management Office Room of Dissection

3594
03:14:58,520 --> 03:15:02,240
Speaker 21: from their joint travel Regulations that outlined travel allowances for

3595
03:15:02,480 --> 03:15:06,920
Speaker 21: quote non covered reproductive healthcare quote meaning like abortion and

3596
03:15:07,120 --> 03:15:12,080
Speaker 21: assisted reproductive technology like IVF. Now this change was directly

3597
03:15:12,160 --> 03:15:15,680
Speaker 21: in compliance with Trump's executive order to enforce the High Amendment,

3598
03:15:15,920 --> 03:15:18,560
Speaker 21: which Mia has talked about lots before on the show.

3599
03:15:19,000 --> 03:15:22,440
Speaker 21: And then on February fourth, they actually re established coverage

3600
03:15:22,560 --> 03:15:26,800
Speaker 21: for assisted reproductive technology, so probably just IVF, but abortion

3601
03:15:27,080 --> 03:15:29,000
Speaker 21: was not re established, so.

3602
03:15:29,080 --> 03:15:34,360
Speaker 9: That means travel cover for abortion related medical care reproduct

3603
03:15:34,440 --> 03:15:39,560
Speaker 9: health care is no longer there. Correct. Correct.

3604
03:15:40,120 --> 03:15:42,760
Speaker 21: For our last main story, I'd like to talk a

3605
03:15:42,879 --> 03:15:46,679
Speaker 21: little bit about updates to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

3606
03:15:47,200 --> 03:15:50,840
Speaker 21: Trump goon rap producer and children's book author Cash Patel

3607
03:15:51,200 --> 03:15:55,040
Speaker 21: has been confirmed as FBI director, and Patel is joined

3608
03:15:55,480 --> 03:16:00,960
Speaker 21: by far right podcaster and conspiracy theorist Dan po Gino,

3609
03:16:01,879 --> 03:16:03,879
Speaker 21: who has been appointed deputy director.

3610
03:16:04,080 --> 03:16:06,920
Speaker 2: Ah God, and I look, I gotta say it. I'm

3611
03:16:06,959 --> 03:16:09,280
Speaker 2: just glad there's an adult in the room now, you know.

3612
03:16:09,760 --> 03:16:11,199
Speaker 2: This is thank God again.

3613
03:16:11,320 --> 03:16:13,640
Speaker 21: Like I don't want to just be talking about how how,

3614
03:16:13,760 --> 03:16:16,160
Speaker 21: you know, kooky everything is in this new administration.

3615
03:16:16,480 --> 03:16:18,240
Speaker 3: But this is wild yet.

3616
03:16:18,240 --> 03:16:21,880
Speaker 2: This is no, no, no, Garrison. I disagree, and that's

3617
03:16:21,959 --> 03:16:27,000
Speaker 2: because I have professional solidarity. Anything that's good for podcasters

3618
03:16:27,080 --> 03:16:33,760
Speaker 2: in general, you know, is good for the country's.

3619
03:16:31,959 --> 03:16:35,920
Speaker 9: So not great, not great.

3620
03:16:37,240 --> 03:16:39,800
Speaker 21: Last week, Patel told senior officials he wants to relocate

3621
03:16:39,879 --> 03:16:43,520
Speaker 21: upwards of fifteen hundred employees from DC to fuel offices

3622
03:16:43,520 --> 03:16:47,279
Speaker 21: around the country, and in a statement on last Friday,

3623
03:16:47,600 --> 03:16:52,520
Speaker 21: which is February twenty first, Patel said, quote, anyone that

3624
03:16:52,680 --> 03:16:54,520
Speaker 21: wishes to do harm to our way of life and

3625
03:16:54,600 --> 03:16:57,480
Speaker 21: our citizens here and abroad will face the full wrath

3626
03:16:57,560 --> 03:17:00,520
Speaker 21: of the dj and the FBI. If you seek to

3627
03:17:00,600 --> 03:17:03,480
Speaker 21: hide in any corner of this country or planet, we

3628
03:17:03,520 --> 03:17:06,320
Speaker 21: will put on the world's largest man hunt, and we

3629
03:17:06,320 --> 03:17:10,119
Speaker 21: will find you, and we will decide your end state unquote.

3630
03:17:10,879 --> 03:17:13,840
Speaker 21: Agents and government employees have warned that under Patel, the

3631
03:17:13,879 --> 03:17:16,800
Speaker 21: Bureau will be on course to refocus efforts away from

3632
03:17:16,959 --> 03:17:20,880
Speaker 21: far right street fighters and accelerationists and towards the nebulous

3633
03:17:21,040 --> 03:17:26,400
Speaker 21: BLM Antifa. In related news, on Tuesday, a far right

3634
03:17:26,440 --> 03:17:30,880
Speaker 21: extremist named Joe Kent was confirmed as director of the

3635
03:17:31,040 --> 03:17:34,959
Speaker 21: National counter Terrorism Center. Kent is a former Special Forces

3636
03:17:35,000 --> 03:17:38,640
Speaker 21: and CIA operative. He's described himself as an American first

3637
03:17:38,760 --> 03:17:42,080
Speaker 21: populist and has strong ties to the Proud Boys and

3638
03:17:42,240 --> 03:17:46,480
Speaker 21: Patriot Prayer. Kent has praised Joey Gibson for standing up

3639
03:17:46,480 --> 03:17:50,160
Speaker 21: to Antifa and Kent himself employed a proud Boy to

3640
03:17:50,440 --> 03:17:54,640
Speaker 21: consult on a failed congressional campaign in twenty twenty two.

3641
03:17:55,120 --> 03:17:58,400
Speaker 21: Kent has historically advocated that the FBI refocus their efforts

3642
03:17:58,480 --> 03:18:02,400
Speaker 21: to target Antifa. And this is like all amidst a

3643
03:18:02,520 --> 03:18:06,000
Speaker 21: report from The Guardian suggesting that the Nazi cocelerationist group

3644
03:18:06,120 --> 03:18:09,800
Speaker 21: the Base, has had a decent resurgence in activity and

3645
03:18:09,959 --> 03:18:14,960
Speaker 21: recruitment efforts inside the United States. That's good, so not

3646
03:18:15,160 --> 03:18:19,120
Speaker 21: cool stuff happening, read the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I

3647
03:18:19,160 --> 03:18:21,920
Speaker 21: guess i'll close unless we have any other thoughts on

3648
03:18:22,120 --> 03:18:26,119
Speaker 21: Kent or Patel or our podcaster deputy director.

3649
03:18:26,959 --> 03:18:29,160
Speaker 9: What are you supposed to say? All right?

3650
03:18:30,120 --> 03:18:32,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think it's funny that because of

3651
03:18:32,520 --> 03:18:35,600
Speaker 2: the number of podcasters that have been hired, there have

3652
03:18:35,680 --> 03:18:38,440
Speaker 2: been statements by people in the administration that like, there

3653
03:18:38,480 --> 03:18:41,959
Speaker 2: aren't going to be any more conservative podcasters because we're

3654
03:18:41,959 --> 03:18:43,440
Speaker 2: giving them all government jobs.

3655
03:18:44,800 --> 03:18:48,600
Speaker 9: Well, that's more hymns advertising dollars for.

3656
03:18:48,760 --> 03:18:50,360
Speaker 7: Us, that's right, that's right.

3657
03:18:50,440 --> 03:18:52,200
Speaker 2: I feel like this is going to be huge for US.

3658
03:18:53,120 --> 03:18:58,040
Speaker 21: I would like to close on three more funny news

3659
03:18:58,160 --> 03:19:01,320
Speaker 21: moments from the past week. On Musk danced around with

3660
03:19:01,440 --> 03:19:04,520
Speaker 21: a chainsaw at sea pack while multiple of his ex

3661
03:19:04,600 --> 03:19:07,520
Speaker 21: wives and baby Mama's pleaded for him on Twitter to

3662
03:19:07,600 --> 03:19:13,920
Speaker 21: respond to emergencies regarding his children, including that including that

3663
03:19:14,080 --> 03:19:17,600
Speaker 21: weird far right journalist and Babylon Bee contributor who's who's

3664
03:19:17,760 --> 03:19:19,840
Speaker 21: had an increasing spat with Musk and I now I

3665
03:19:19,920 --> 03:19:23,040
Speaker 21: believe has filed for complete custody of their child.

3666
03:19:23,560 --> 03:19:26,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I mean that's good luck. I guess, like,

3667
03:19:26,680 --> 03:19:30,160
Speaker 9: I guess good luck. I can't think of a worse

3668
03:19:30,240 --> 03:19:33,040
Speaker 9: situation to be and than Elon Musk being one of

3669
03:19:33,160 --> 03:19:35,680
Speaker 9: your legal parents. So like, for the sake of that child,

3670
03:19:35,760 --> 03:19:36,879
Speaker 9: I hope that she succeeds.

3671
03:19:37,680 --> 03:19:41,800
Speaker 21: Tesla stock is down nearly thirty percent this month. There's

3672
03:19:41,840 --> 03:19:44,080
Speaker 21: been a real pressure on him because people in Europe

3673
03:19:44,080 --> 03:19:46,840
Speaker 21: are refusing to buy Tesla's in a boycott, you know,

3674
03:19:47,040 --> 03:19:49,280
Speaker 21: upset at him for doing the whole Nazi salute and

3675
03:19:49,440 --> 03:19:53,960
Speaker 21: being a Nazi thing. And finally, in some very sad news,

3676
03:19:54,640 --> 03:19:59,600
Speaker 21: a crypto trader killed himself live on a Twitter space

3677
03:20:00,440 --> 03:20:03,680
Speaker 21: in order to start a sorry sorry on an x

3678
03:20:03,879 --> 03:20:08,240
Speaker 21: space in order to start a meme coin. How do

3679
03:20:08,320 --> 03:20:09,879
Speaker 21: we feel about this, folks? I know it's a dark

3680
03:20:09,959 --> 03:20:10,840
Speaker 21: time for our community.

3681
03:20:11,879 --> 03:20:13,039
Speaker 9: They did start the meme coin.

3682
03:20:13,240 --> 03:20:15,800
Speaker 3: Multiple meme cooins actually were started.

3683
03:20:15,560 --> 03:20:18,400
Speaker 9: So well, well done for the people cashing in on

3684
03:20:18,520 --> 03:20:20,680
Speaker 9: the guy shooting himself in the head and then bleeding

3685
03:20:20,720 --> 03:20:24,520
Speaker 9: out for thirty minutes on stream. You are vampires, I

3686
03:20:24,560 --> 03:20:27,280
Speaker 9: don't know, not the cool kind. No, yeah, not the

3687
03:20:28,160 --> 03:20:32,800
Speaker 9: not the cool kind, the evil kind, vultures. Vultures can

3688
03:20:32,840 --> 03:20:34,360
Speaker 9: be cool as well. I guess it depends.

3689
03:20:34,560 --> 03:20:38,520
Speaker 21: Yeah, well, I think that's it for us. We reported

3690
03:20:38,600 --> 03:20:39,600
Speaker 21: the news again.

3691
03:20:42,000 --> 03:20:42,920
Speaker 25: We reported the news.

3692
03:20:47,240 --> 03:20:50,400
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3693
03:20:50,480 --> 03:20:52,359
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3694
03:20:52,959 --> 03:20:55,400
Speaker 11: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3695
03:20:55,640 --> 03:20:58,640
Speaker 11: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3696
03:20:58,760 --> 03:21:02,280
Speaker 11: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3697
03:21:02,400 --> 03:21:05,920
Speaker 11: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3698
03:21:06,000 --> 03:21:08,280
Speaker 11: now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly

3699
03:21:08,360 --> 03:21:10,640
Speaker 11: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.