WEBVTT - Exploration 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.360 Today and next week. We're featuring ambient music from Nathaniel 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:12.360 Kraus here more and Nathaniel Krause dot band camp, dot com, 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:19.840 links and more on our website Ephemeral dot Show. Ephemeral 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:24.880 is a production of I Heeart three d ad Fuful Exposure. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:32.360 Listen with that phones what draws us two places off 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:38.360 the beaten path, seldom seen or only dreamed about. I 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.400 think they're all born explorers in the sense that as 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.279 soon as you learn how to walk, you kind of 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.640 walk off to the house you're living and you start 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:51.320 to wonder what's between you and the horizon. Um, as 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.400 soon as you get to horizon, you started wonder what's 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.040 beyond the horizon. That's how we'll be born. Unfortunately, when 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.920 they get the year and a half and two years soul, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.320 all the five years old, you get corrupted by kindergarten, 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.640 by your parents, by your friends, you mentioned by the 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.080 school system, by the government. You never stop being an explorer, 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:15.560 but gradually it's diluted that spirit. And also think we're 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.800 kind of all born philosophers too, like you know, thinking 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.480 about thinking, thinking about big questions. That's something you do 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.920 when you're two or three or four years old. Then 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.320 you gradually stopped doing that too. It's a better question. 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.480 Like a friend of mine, the philosopher Arnns, was asked 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.679 why do you climb? And he replied, why did you stop? 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:45.080 My name is Alene. I'm from Norway. I'm a polar explorer, mountaineer, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.320 and I was the first in the world to reach 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.280 the top of Everest and the North Pole and the 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:57.040 South Pole by foot. This is the first two episodes 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.920 will run this month featuring Early, who I interviewed the 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.680 motely from a studio in Osla. In addition to his 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.840 legendary expeditions, Arling is also an art collector, the owner 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.160 of a publishing company, the author of eight books, and 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.080 just generally a guy with a one of a kind resume. 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.160 I started out when I was twenty years sold to 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.880 sail across the Atlantic with three friends. Then we sailed 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.440 back in when I was twenty one, and then I 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.959 sailed first time to Antarctica bit a Bermuda boat called 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.680 war Baby in eight to six eight to seven. And 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.040 then when I was twenty seven, I walked with Burger 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:40.080 Olsland to the North Pole. Burling and Burger hold the 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.760 Guinness World Record for being the first to reach the 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:48.400 North Pole unsupported by air drops. Strange thing is at 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.520 least my experiences, and I think also quite a few 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.720 other explorers and all the people's experiences that first to 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.359 get the idea, then he decided to do it, and 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.320 then you start to figure out how to do it. 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.520 Because if it's the all the way around, they get 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.360 the idea, then they start to figure out how to 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.800 do it. You may give up quite quickly because it 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.000 is too complicate, it too demanding, and it's kind of 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:15.040 too irrational to walk to the North Pole in over time, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.160 I was college and I already been to Antarctica. I 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.760 have been doing different fairly extreme trips. And a guy 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.200 I knew him a little bit. He was an adventure 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.720 and he said, you know, Lank, should we walk to 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.080 the North Pole together. I just felt like this is 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.880 great and I didn't know much about it. And then 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.040 berg Alsland today probably the world's leading polar explorer. I 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.160 always wanted to see for myself what is behind the horizon. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.800 I always had that drive in me. We met him 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.480 almost by accident, and they decided to go together. I 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:55.600 spent two years preparing because expeditions has many All the 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.160 things in life all comes down to good preparations. If 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.280 you're not really well prepared, you will fail. So well 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:10.280 prepared for two years and started to walk from Northern Canada. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.480 When you say you're prepared for two years, what I mean, 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.840 what are you doing? Obviously you need to train fish 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.920 Cliff to become super fit to dragon two hundred and 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.880 fift pounds sled to crevasses and you know reugh eyes, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.280 and you need to have the right food, so you know, 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.640 it's lots of physiology to make up like as many 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.920 calories as possible per pound as you possibly can digest 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.960 because you're have to bring all the food video for 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.560 one or two months, and at least at that time, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:47.039 you need to design your own undrax because you couldn't 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.080 buy proper gear and did design the sledges. And then 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.520 you need to raise the money because needros had any 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.080 you know, sufficient means, so we need to raise money, sponsorships. 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.680 It's not the Hobbit's a total of style. So for 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.240 two years, I don't think I did any park this 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.120 or anything like that. Just kind of worked really hard 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.359 getting ready, and I was at school at the same time. 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.719 But of course that suffered too, so it's kind of 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.000 the most important thing in my life to get to 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.800 the North Pole for those two years. It's a very 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.520 ecocentric thing to do. I wouldn't say it's egoistic, because 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.839 that's such a misused world, but it's certainly very egocentric thing, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.080 and maybe, like you know, also a little bit unsympathetic 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.400 to focus so much on yourself and also to use 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:39.560 nature as kind of a field for competitive things. That's 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.440 what quite a few people think, and that's thought the fair. 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.640 But I'm proud of what I did. What kind of 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.200 stuff do you care? I mean, what's on that tuner 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.680 to depound sled? Yeah, about one key load, which is 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.280 about two pounds of food every day, and then you 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.359 have fueled to melt the ice and snow into water, 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.480 and a little cooker, sleeping bag and maddress and a tent. 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.880 Of course, we had like twelve hundred and fifty three 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.400 grams so repair kits, so we didn't bring any spares. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.400 We could repair everything that broke down, and of course 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:21.320 when it's done to minus fifty four centigrade, kind of 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.279 everything breaks down and it's so cold, like you're crying 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.200 when you're peeing at least when having a because it's 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.240 so unbelievable cold. That was kind of everything we had 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.680 in the sled and add up to dred twenty twenty 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:44.160 five kilos, which is about two hundred sixty pounds. I think, 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.919 did you say that one of your feelings broke and 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.400 you had to replace your feeling? Yeah. I was eating 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.440 lunch and of course I gots solid frozen and I 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.880 broke on tooth and it was I think a lot. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.800 First I walked to all today with painful tooth, and 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.400 then in the evening we heat up the tent and 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.080 I laid back and all my mouth. The one guy 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.520 I was just keeping my mouth open and clean my tooth, 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:12.960 and then the other guy was filling it up the 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.240 Temporarily it's worked really well. The dentists had a hell 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.400 of a time to get it out again when I 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:26.440 get back to Norway. How many days was that particular expedition, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.600 It was fifty eight days and nights. The Arctic is 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.600 an oceans are to navigated by continents, with the North 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.200 Pole on the top, while the south Pole Antarctica is 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.880 a continent setting navigated by oceans. So due to walk 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.440 to the north pole. We walked and drifting ice. Sometimes 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.480 the ice breaks apart, and you know it's sea level. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.679 It's like three thousand meters, so if you fall into 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:59.200 the water, it's quite dramatic. Then it's given polar bears 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.600 up there, so it's not super dangerous, but you know, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.040 pretty dangerous and very difficult, I think, to walk to 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.880 the North Pole, and that's why most people fail. How 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.960 does that relationship, that interpersonal relationship change over the days 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.360 and and how do you sort of come to rely 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.200 on each other? How do you really interact with each 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:23.840 other on a trip like that. It's quite interesting because 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.920 I didn't know the guys, the two other guys very well. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.520 And get the guy who asked me at college if 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.760 you should do it together. You had an extent early 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.360 on not to give up. And then it was Burger 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.200 and myself and the harder new each other and the 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.840 only new child because you have been preparing the expedition, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.360 so we kind of didn't have much in common at 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:48.600 the time, so we hardly talked about anything but food 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.120 because we're starving, because we're eating like six thousand calories 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.559 per person per day. It was too little to talk 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.679 about food. We talked about being freezing cold. Beyond that, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.600 it totally focused on putting one leg in front of 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.040 the other to get northwards, because to walk to North 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.320 Pole technical wise is that simple. You just need to 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.240 put your leg in front of the other sufficient times. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:16.360 That's was over total main concern. Today we are great friends, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.040 I think at that time we're not great friends, but 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.400 just two guys who had the same goal that was 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.120 totally dependent on each other. And I think that was 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.160 a great advantage because if you had been close friends, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.960 had that, you know, shared history, so much more to 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.600 argue about, so much more to misunderstand. But we only 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.600 had one goal. I think that was a good start. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.079 But also, like I think, you know one way, you 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.240 are totally hypnotized when it start on such an expedition. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.720 You are totally focused on having one direction and what 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.720 behind you or to the left or to the right 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.520 doesn't matter. All they want is to get to the 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.520 North Pole. We hardly talked walking to North Pole and 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.960 to the soft poll. I didn't talk at all. Maybe 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.360 I said a few words, but I hardly talked for 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:19.600 fifty one of you to two days. Your next trip, 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.800 you're planning to go to set poll. You decided to 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.320 go alone. Why do you decide to go down? Several reasons. One, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.760 it's more difficult, and I believe in making life more 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.440 difficult than it has to be. Of course, if I 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.240 was born in Sudden Sudan, I will have thought differently 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.840 about it. But as a Norwegian it has to be 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.440 more difficult, I think to be meaningful. And also I 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.960 want to be the first to do some things. I 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:47.839 didn't want to walk to themselves poll in the way 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.840 someone else had done it before. That had you know, 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:55.559 many good reasons I didn't express to myself, and afterwards 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.760 it was so much more interesting to be absolutely by myself, 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.920 not to meet any people, not to talk to anyone. 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.200 It's not about turning you back to the world to 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.840 be in silence for a while. To me, it was 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.640 the opposite. It was about opening up to the world, 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.319 thinking about people in a different way, with more respect, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:25.800 and loving the world even more. One thing which is 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.680 easy on expeditions, because sometimes it's really rough, really hard, 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:35.520 really cold you're suffering, is to swear. Here. I never 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.240 swear on expeditions because it on the drags you down 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:45.679 with just a negative words that drags it down. It's 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.240 a total waste of time to swear. It makes life 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.400 even worse. So that's another reason why I kept my 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:58.160 mouth shut. You tell a story in the Silence Book 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.599 that I think when you're under is the plane of 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.400 the helicopter going to your like dropping point that they 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.079 made you take a radio? Is that right? Yeah? I 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.480 was forced to bring a radio by airline company that 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.679 flew me off to the edge of the eyes and 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.199 my sponsor. But of course I didn't want to be 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.320 in touch with anyone, so I cheated a little bit 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.920 to stick to my ambition to be by myself. I 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:27.480 had to leave the batteries in the plane to begin with. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:32.280 You are restless because you think about eight hundred and 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.640 fifty miles or something to go, I'm not going to 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.360 meet any people, no idea or somebody else, but no 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.440 exact idea about how many days is going to last. 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.160 Then you kind of feel like a little bit desperate 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.120 or you don't feel happy. But then as the hours 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.640 and days passed by, you get into a written and 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.760 you start to enjoy life. It's a beautiful feeling, and 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.839 it's not like a feeling you should be living by 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.640 your self for rest of your life, because we're all 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.320 born social beings. But just like you have a break 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.679 from the world, and as you've already talked about, like 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:12.880 you know, experiencing the world and sometimes not the whole expedition, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.160 but being in the present. So I'd rather say it 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.240 was an absolutely beautiful experience, and I think most people 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.200 would react to the same way as me, because it's 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.000 in daily life. It's kind of very exotic idea to 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:27.800 be by itself for such a long time, but I 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.440 think if you had to, most people would have enjoyed it. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.040 In Earling set his sites and somebody in Mount Everest 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.960 becoming the first person to complete on foot what's known 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:49.840 as the Three Poles challenge. You know, has similarities in 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.200 the sense that you are very much a part of nature, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.319 that you feel that you have been out there for 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.400 a while to kind of feel that your body doesn't 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.440 stop by your skin, no, by a finger tips, but 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.240 it's extended in the nature. So that's a similarity. A 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:13.120 high upon a mountain. It's not as dangerous as you 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.160 read or here in the media, but still it is dangerous, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.480 so you have to be very careful. But of course, 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.200 you know the difference between the poles are like, this 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.200 is a mountain. This is a huge mountain, and it's 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.120 so much bigger than how I could have imagine before 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.880 seeing the mountain. It's dramatic because if you fall, you 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.920 don't fall into the water. It is could be tough enough, 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.680 but you can fall two or three thousand meters. I 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.560 think sometimes if they hear people claiming it's easier to 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.880 climb evers, but usually the people who didn't get to 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.080 the summit, I think everyone helped me to the summit 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.680 agrees it's readers have going to get to the summit. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:56.120 How's the view? Ah? You know when people tell you 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.200 the climb evers because they want to see the view, 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.000 it's not absolutely accurate. I think I love the view, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:03.960 but you know, the view from the next month is 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.440 even better because then you can see everything perspective. So 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:14.240 I got to the summit, I was smoothed, I was 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:19.600 so happy, I was almost crying. But then shortly afterwards, 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.120 you know, my next feeling was how in hell should 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.200 I get down again? Because to get down from the 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.400 mountain is kind of more dangerous than getting to the summit, 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:34.360 because you easily feel more confident, less self critical. Is 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:39.800 starting to take small chances and suddenly it's faithal to 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.520 my experience, most accidents are happening on the way down 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.720 from the mountains. I'm not on the way, so breaks 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:54.320 up palling, that manorious palling. Do you think there's something 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.240 about the simplicity required by that life, having everything on 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.240 your back or in your slid and hiking or climbing 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.440 that like affects your sense of pleasure and reward, that 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.720 things seem maybe more easily rewarding than they would in 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.880 like a normal sort of work of day life. Yeah, 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.600 that's sort of true. You're so much more present, So 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.240 it's like, you know, philosophers are writing about the existensive list, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.160 but to be on an expedition way of the apolar 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.800 regions or close to the summit of everys like existensive 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.640 listm in real life is so present. And I think 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.920 one of the most beautiful feelings you can have is 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:39.280 to be freezing cold and then get warm again. That's 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.600 the best feeling. And of course this advantage being warm 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.920 all the time that you're not appreciating it, just like 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.280 you know, if you have been healthy throughout your own life, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.320 you don't appreciate, you don't feel grateful for being healthy. 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.240 If you're always healthy, time is not linear, and to 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:03.200 have the variations in life makes life feel longer. There's 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.159 a Norwegian saying, and I think translates in English too 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:10.640 much want more. Yeah, yeah, that's the Norwegian saying. I'm 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.560 sure that they have then other languages too, but at 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:17.560 that we say it to Norwegian bill, Yes, much will 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.560 want made more. If you have a lot of things 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.960 in your life, you just want more and more things. 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.880 It's this kind of the opposite of the old wisdom 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.720 that if you're going to live a happy life you 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:38.879 need to keep your pleasures simple. Do you think something 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.400 that's too easily obtained can lose its sense of pleasure? 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.720 Like I think of this is the aphorism like no pain, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:53.960 no gain. Yeah, absolutely very much, believing in struggling, fighting hard, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.040 not getting things too easy in life. Of course, both 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.239 you knew we should be careful not romantizing about it, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.360 because of course many people are to talk like this 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.640 is almost obnoxious, because you know they have a daily 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:12.880 fight just to survive and support their families. But for 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.120 me it's maybe it sounds a bit strange to say, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.760 but for me it's different because I live in quite 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.359 normal Norwegian middle class life. I grew up in a 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.760 typical Norwegian middle class family, and then you have to 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.240 make your life more difficult and you have to struggle. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.879 And I think it's super important to struggle. But because 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.639 people know who has not been struggling, have been spoiled 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:40.640 throughout their whole lives, they get very boring and they 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.520 quite often complain that their lives are short, that is 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.439 not much excitement going on. So I don't think it's healthy. 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.760 I think life is a struggle. It should be a struggle. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.359 The difference between walking or climbing up to the top 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.399 of a mountain compared to use a hell a culture 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.880 up to the same place. You know, it doesn't relate, 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.520 even if you at the summit is totally different. Flow 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.800 in the helicopter. You need to stuggle it, you need 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.560 to use some time, You need to feel the environment, 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:16.840 You need to kind of become a part of nature. 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.480 If you're going to appreciate climbing a mountain. One of 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.200 the meanings of life is to fulfill your own potentials. 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:26.520 And if you're going to do that, we really have 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.800 to get up and live an active life. And you 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.640 need to think you need to experience, you need to read, 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.399 you need to talk to people, you need to move around, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.280 you need to be moved. Just when you get up 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.159 in the morning. Like you know, if you are a 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.159 fairly privileged life, you don't even need to get up 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.360 from bed. You can just stay in bed and your 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.040 moderate eventually give your food because she feels sorry for 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.760 you. You You can just remain in bed to just get 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.320 up in the morning. After that, everything kind of feels 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.800 nicier and easier, and then throughout the whole day. It 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.560 is very much about making life more difficult than it 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.440 has to be. Of course I'm more eager than most 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.800 of the people on it. And then the beauty, oh, 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.560 not getting a shape about it, and sometimes just remain 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:20.760 in bed. A variety is important. M hm m hmm. 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.359 I want to talking about a couple more expeditions that 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.199 you did in the US. Funny ten, I think right, 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.040 you went to New York and you did two very 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.480 different kinds of walks. Yeah, it walked like five days 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.280 and nights. Together with your fellow of American Steve Duncan, 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.399 who's urban history and an urban explorer. City shaped their 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.240 environment and the way they do that is through infrastructure 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:54.760 with some of the people. I came and went went 0:20:54.840 --> 0:21:01.360 to Northern Bronx, walked through New York City, partly through 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:10.080 the train, water, subway and search systems that is beneath 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.399 the city streets. Navigating the literal underbelly of New York City. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.360 You straight up like went up to like a manhood cover, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.680 just lifted it up and just just drafted right. Sometimes 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.080 you could climb on fences and get into a tunnel 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.720 or something, but like just in Green Street and over Manhattan, 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.440 we just waited and it was no cars, and then 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.720 run over to the manhole and climbed in and cling 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.240 poop and the man holds back again and it was 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.480 down in the dark. So I've been Northern brown Swit 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.040 went into the sewage and walked down to Harlem and 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.400 then kind of crisscross the city through these tunnel systems 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.119 all to Shamaka Bay the Atlantic Ocean, and they have 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.520 to get that ball ground to change tunnels. Of course, 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.560 you can walk at subway tunnel through all of Manhattan, 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.760 but we want to have the variety. We want to 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.720 just see the city from the inside out and see 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:05.720 what the city would look like if you turned it 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:11.040 upside down, and it was great crossing the city with 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:15.760 a backpack, with a sleeping bag, little mattress, little cooker, 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:20.280 hit Waiders suggest Wailers. It's no hardship. It's not like 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.000 an ob expedition. It's kind of easy going. And I 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.600 guess the biggest risk was to be called by the police. 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.679 You were even laughing. Sometimes it's kind of playing flat 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.880 in the sewage, and so how we got absolutely soaking 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:39.800 webb wash. It was pretty crazy expedition, and even some 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.040 people living down there, not in the sewage, but in trentannels. 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.040 I'd really like New York City, and again I was 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:52.720 partly driven by curiosity to get to know New York 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:57.399 City even better. I'm not thinking about that expedition, or 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.360 like all the expeditions, unless I talk about it. Even 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.840 to me, it sounds strange thinking about it. Unfortunately, I 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.600 sat down off words to write down what we have 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.600 been through, because if you do it several years later, 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.440 it's a different story. So fortunately I wrote it down. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.760 What I wrote my book two is kind of based 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:22.800 upon what I wrote in twenty ten, so it's pretty accurate. Well, 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.240 I'm super happy with that that expedition and we didn't 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:31.440 get sick on that same trip to New York after 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:36.000 experiencing the city from the inside out, Stephen Erling side 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.440 from the top down, we'll climbed Williamsburg Bridge, but you know, 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.200 it's not really climbing. You have to climb some gates, 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.680 so it's a little bit risky, not super whiskey, and 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.640 then it's almost like stairs getting you to the top. 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:54.359 The biggest risk there is Toma sees you and reported 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:58.600 to the police, Like my friend Steve said, when it's 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.240 on the top of the bridge and sound there's absolutely 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.400 quiet down on the street below you. Then you're deep 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:10.399 because then the police has closed off the bridge. So 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:13.800 it's what like it's like super early in the morning 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:15.680 and you just go to the very top of the 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:17.960 Williamsburg Bridge and you have no permission to do it. 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:20.880 You know, you don't get the permission that we were 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:24.000 happy to get that permission it was possible, but of 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:25.800 course they will never give you a permission, so you 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:29.280 have to do it without the permission. I'm not recommending 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:31.359 and want to do it, because you know it's not legal. 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.520 That's one thing, But I'm another think it's like all 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:36.720 this is a little bit anxious to me it was 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:39.200 worth it. If it's worth it for you, I don't know. 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:44.040 The beauty is that we understand there we had the 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.920 sunrise over seeing into Brooklyn and Queen's beyond that the Atlantic. 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:52.960 Of course, New York City is very much about making money, 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.520 and making money makes lots of noise. But as I said, 0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:58.800 it was at night, early in the morning, so it 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:03.720 was fairly peaceful on the top of the bridge. And 0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:06.639