1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Today and next week. We're featuring ambient music from Nathaniel 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Kraus here more and Nathaniel Krause dot band camp, dot com, 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: links and more on our website Ephemeral dot Show. Ephemeral 4 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heeart three d ad Fuful Exposure. 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: Listen with that phones what draws us two places off 6 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: the beaten path, seldom seen or only dreamed about. I 7 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: think they're all born explorers in the sense that as 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: soon as you learn how to walk, you kind of 9 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: walk off to the house you're living and you start 10 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: to wonder what's between you and the horizon. Um, as 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: soon as you get to horizon, you started wonder what's 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: beyond the horizon. That's how we'll be born. Unfortunately, when 13 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: they get the year and a half and two years soul, 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: all the five years old, you get corrupted by kindergarten, 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: by your parents, by your friends, you mentioned by the 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: school system, by the government. You never stop being an explorer, 17 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: but gradually it's diluted that spirit. And also think we're 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: kind of all born philosophers too, like you know, thinking 19 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: about thinking, thinking about big questions. That's something you do 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: when you're two or three or four years old. Then 21 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: you gradually stopped doing that too. It's a better question. 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: Like a friend of mine, the philosopher Arnns, was asked 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: why do you climb? And he replied, why did you stop? 24 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: My name is Alene. I'm from Norway. I'm a polar explorer, mountaineer, 25 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: and I was the first in the world to reach 26 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: the top of Everest and the North Pole and the 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: South Pole by foot. This is the first two episodes 28 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: will run this month featuring Early, who I interviewed the 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: motely from a studio in Osla. In addition to his 30 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: legendary expeditions, Arling is also an art collector, the owner 31 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: of a publishing company, the author of eight books, and 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: just generally a guy with a one of a kind resume. 33 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: I started out when I was twenty years sold to 34 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: sail across the Atlantic with three friends. Then we sailed 35 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: back in when I was twenty one, and then I 36 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: sailed first time to Antarctica bit a Bermuda boat called 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: war Baby in eight to six eight to seven. And 38 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: then when I was twenty seven, I walked with Burger 39 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: Olsland to the North Pole. Burling and Burger hold the 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: Guinness World Record for being the first to reach the 41 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: North Pole unsupported by air drops. Strange thing is at 42 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: least my experiences, and I think also quite a few 43 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: other explorers and all the people's experiences that first to 44 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: get the idea, then he decided to do it, and 45 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: then you start to figure out how to do it. 46 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: Because if it's the all the way around, they get 47 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: the idea, then they start to figure out how to 48 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: do it. You may give up quite quickly because it 49 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: is too complicate, it too demanding, and it's kind of 50 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: too irrational to walk to the North Pole in over time, 51 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: I was college and I already been to Antarctica. I 52 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: have been doing different fairly extreme trips. And a guy 53 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: I knew him a little bit. He was an adventure 54 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, Lank, should we walk to 55 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: the North Pole together. I just felt like this is 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: great and I didn't know much about it. And then 57 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: berg Alsland today probably the world's leading polar explorer. I 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: always wanted to see for myself what is behind the horizon. 59 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: I always had that drive in me. We met him 60 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: almost by accident, and they decided to go together. I 61 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: spent two years preparing because expeditions has many All the 62 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: things in life all comes down to good preparations. If 63 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: you're not really well prepared, you will fail. So well 64 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: prepared for two years and started to walk from Northern Canada. 65 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: When you say you're prepared for two years, what I mean, 66 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: what are you doing? Obviously you need to train fish 67 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: Cliff to become super fit to dragon two hundred and 68 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: fift pounds sled to crevasses and you know reugh eyes, 69 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: and you need to have the right food, so you know, 70 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: it's lots of physiology to make up like as many 71 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: calories as possible per pound as you possibly can digest 72 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: because you're have to bring all the food video for 73 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: one or two months, and at least at that time, 74 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: you need to design your own undrax because you couldn't 75 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: buy proper gear and did design the sledges. And then 76 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: you need to raise the money because needros had any 77 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: you know, sufficient means, so we need to raise money, sponsorships. 78 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: It's not the Hobbit's a total of style. So for 79 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: two years, I don't think I did any park this 80 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: or anything like that. Just kind of worked really hard 81 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: getting ready, and I was at school at the same time. 82 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: But of course that suffered too, so it's kind of 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: the most important thing in my life to get to 84 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: the North Pole for those two years. It's a very 85 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: ecocentric thing to do. I wouldn't say it's egoistic, because 86 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: that's such a misused world, but it's certainly very egocentric thing, 87 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: and maybe, like you know, also a little bit unsympathetic 88 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: to focus so much on yourself and also to use 89 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: nature as kind of a field for competitive things. That's 90 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: what quite a few people think, and that's thought the fair. 91 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: But I'm proud of what I did. What kind of 92 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: stuff do you care? I mean, what's on that tuner 93 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: to depound sled? Yeah, about one key load, which is 94 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: about two pounds of food every day, and then you 95 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: have fueled to melt the ice and snow into water, 96 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: and a little cooker, sleeping bag and maddress and a tent. 97 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: Of course, we had like twelve hundred and fifty three 98 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: grams so repair kits, so we didn't bring any spares. 99 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: We could repair everything that broke down, and of course 100 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: when it's done to minus fifty four centigrade, kind of 101 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: everything breaks down and it's so cold, like you're crying 102 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: when you're peeing at least when having a because it's 103 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: so unbelievable cold. That was kind of everything we had 104 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: in the sled and add up to dred twenty twenty 105 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: five kilos, which is about two hundred sixty pounds. I think, 106 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: did you say that one of your feelings broke and 107 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: you had to replace your feeling? Yeah. I was eating 108 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: lunch and of course I gots solid frozen and I 109 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: broke on tooth and it was I think a lot. 110 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: First I walked to all today with painful tooth, and 111 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: then in the evening we heat up the tent and 112 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: I laid back and all my mouth. The one guy 113 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: I was just keeping my mouth open and clean my tooth, 114 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: and then the other guy was filling it up the 115 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: Temporarily it's worked really well. The dentists had a hell 116 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: of a time to get it out again when I 117 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: get back to Norway. How many days was that particular expedition, 118 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: It was fifty eight days and nights. The Arctic is 119 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: an oceans are to navigated by continents, with the North 120 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: Pole on the top, while the south Pole Antarctica is 121 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: a continent setting navigated by oceans. So due to walk 122 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: to the north pole. We walked and drifting ice. Sometimes 123 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: the ice breaks apart, and you know it's sea level. 124 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 1: It's like three thousand meters, so if you fall into 125 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: the water, it's quite dramatic. Then it's given polar bears 126 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: up there, so it's not super dangerous, but you know, 127 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: pretty dangerous and very difficult, I think, to walk to 128 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: the North Pole, and that's why most people fail. How 129 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: does that relationship, that interpersonal relationship change over the days 130 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: and and how do you sort of come to rely 131 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: on each other? How do you really interact with each 132 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: other on a trip like that. It's quite interesting because 133 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: I didn't know the guys, the two other guys very well. 134 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: And get the guy who asked me at college if 135 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: you should do it together. You had an extent early 136 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: on not to give up. And then it was Burger 137 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: and myself and the harder new each other and the 138 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: only new child because you have been preparing the expedition, 139 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: so we kind of didn't have much in common at 140 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: the time, so we hardly talked about anything but food 141 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: because we're starving, because we're eating like six thousand calories 142 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: per person per day. It was too little to talk 143 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: about food. We talked about being freezing cold. Beyond that, 144 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: it totally focused on putting one leg in front of 145 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: the other to get northwards, because to walk to North 146 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: Pole technical wise is that simple. You just need to 147 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: put your leg in front of the other sufficient times. 148 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: That's was over total main concern. Today we are great friends, 149 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: I think at that time we're not great friends, but 150 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: just two guys who had the same goal that was 151 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: totally dependent on each other. And I think that was 152 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: a great advantage because if you had been close friends, 153 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: had that, you know, shared history, so much more to 154 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: argue about, so much more to misunderstand. But we only 155 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: had one goal. I think that was a good start. 156 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: But also, like I think, you know one way, you 157 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: are totally hypnotized when it start on such an expedition. 158 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: You are totally focused on having one direction and what 159 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: behind you or to the left or to the right 160 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. All they want is to get to the 161 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: North Pole. We hardly talked walking to North Pole and 162 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: to the soft poll. I didn't talk at all. Maybe 163 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: I said a few words, but I hardly talked for 164 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: fifty one of you to two days. Your next trip, 165 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: you're planning to go to set poll. You decided to 166 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: go alone. Why do you decide to go down? Several reasons. One, 167 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: it's more difficult, and I believe in making life more 168 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: difficult than it has to be. Of course, if I 169 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: was born in Sudden Sudan, I will have thought differently 170 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: about it. But as a Norwegian it has to be 171 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: more difficult, I think to be meaningful. And also I 172 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: want to be the first to do some things. I 173 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: didn't want to walk to themselves poll in the way 174 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: someone else had done it before. That had you know, 175 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: many good reasons I didn't express to myself, and afterwards 176 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: it was so much more interesting to be absolutely by myself, 177 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: not to meet any people, not to talk to anyone. 178 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: It's not about turning you back to the world to 179 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: be in silence for a while. To me, it was 180 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: the opposite. It was about opening up to the world, 181 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: thinking about people in a different way, with more respect, 182 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: and loving the world even more. One thing which is 183 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: easy on expeditions, because sometimes it's really rough, really hard, 184 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: really cold you're suffering, is to swear. Here. I never 185 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: swear on expeditions because it on the drags you down 186 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: with just a negative words that drags it down. It's 187 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: a total waste of time to swear. It makes life 188 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: even worse. So that's another reason why I kept my 189 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: mouth shut. You tell a story in the Silence Book 190 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 1: that I think when you're under is the plane of 191 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: the helicopter going to your like dropping point that they 192 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: made you take a radio? Is that right? Yeah? I 193 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: was forced to bring a radio by airline company that 194 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: flew me off to the edge of the eyes and 195 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: my sponsor. But of course I didn't want to be 196 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: in touch with anyone, so I cheated a little bit 197 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: to stick to my ambition to be by myself. I 198 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: had to leave the batteries in the plane to begin with. 199 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: You are restless because you think about eight hundred and 200 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: fifty miles or something to go, I'm not going to 201 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: meet any people, no idea or somebody else, but no 202 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: exact idea about how many days is going to last. 203 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: Then you kind of feel like a little bit desperate 204 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: or you don't feel happy. But then as the hours 205 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: and days passed by, you get into a written and 206 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: you start to enjoy life. It's a beautiful feeling, and 207 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: it's not like a feeling you should be living by 208 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: your self for rest of your life, because we're all 209 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: born social beings. But just like you have a break 210 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: from the world, and as you've already talked about, like 211 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, experiencing the world and sometimes not the whole expedition, 212 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: but being in the present. So I'd rather say it 213 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: was an absolutely beautiful experience, and I think most people 214 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: would react to the same way as me, because it's 215 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: in daily life. It's kind of very exotic idea to 216 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: be by itself for such a long time, but I 217 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: think if you had to, most people would have enjoyed it. 218 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: In Earling set his sites and somebody in Mount Everest 219 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: becoming the first person to complete on foot what's known 220 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: as the Three Poles challenge. You know, has similarities in 221 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: the sense that you are very much a part of nature, 222 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: that you feel that you have been out there for 223 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: a while to kind of feel that your body doesn't 224 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: stop by your skin, no, by a finger tips, but 225 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: it's extended in the nature. So that's a similarity. A 226 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: high upon a mountain. It's not as dangerous as you 227 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: read or here in the media, but still it is dangerous, 228 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: so you have to be very careful. But of course, 229 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: you know the difference between the poles are like, this 230 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: is a mountain. This is a huge mountain, and it's 231 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: so much bigger than how I could have imagine before 232 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: seeing the mountain. It's dramatic because if you fall, you 233 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: don't fall into the water. It is could be tough enough, 234 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: but you can fall two or three thousand meters. I 235 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: think sometimes if they hear people claiming it's easier to 236 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: climb evers, but usually the people who didn't get to 237 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: the summit, I think everyone helped me to the summit 238 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: agrees it's readers have going to get to the summit. 239 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: How's the view? Ah? You know when people tell you 240 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: the climb evers because they want to see the view, 241 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: it's not absolutely accurate. I think I love the view, 242 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: but you know, the view from the next month is 243 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: even better because then you can see everything perspective. So 244 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: I got to the summit, I was smoothed, I was 245 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: so happy, I was almost crying. But then shortly afterwards, 246 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, my next feeling was how in hell should 247 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: I get down again? Because to get down from the 248 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: mountain is kind of more dangerous than getting to the summit, 249 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: because you easily feel more confident, less self critical. Is 250 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: starting to take small chances and suddenly it's faithal to 251 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: my experience, most accidents are happening on the way down 252 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: from the mountains. I'm not on the way, so breaks 253 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: up palling, that manorious palling. Do you think there's something 254 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: about the simplicity required by that life, having everything on 255 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: your back or in your slid and hiking or climbing 256 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: that like affects your sense of pleasure and reward, that 257 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: things seem maybe more easily rewarding than they would in 258 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: like a normal sort of work of day life. Yeah, 259 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: that's sort of true. You're so much more present, So 260 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, philosophers are writing about the existensive list, 261 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: but to be on an expedition way of the apolar 262 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: regions or close to the summit of everys like existensive 263 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: listm in real life is so present. And I think 264 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful feelings you can have is 265 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: to be freezing cold and then get warm again. That's 266 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: the best feeling. And of course this advantage being warm 267 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: all the time that you're not appreciating it, just like 268 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, if you have been healthy throughout your own life, 269 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: you don't appreciate, you don't feel grateful for being healthy. 270 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: If you're always healthy, time is not linear, and to 271 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: have the variations in life makes life feel longer. There's 272 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: a Norwegian saying, and I think translates in English too 273 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: much want more. Yeah, yeah, that's the Norwegian saying. I'm 274 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: sure that they have then other languages too, but at 275 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: that we say it to Norwegian bill, Yes, much will 276 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: want made more. If you have a lot of things 277 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: in your life, you just want more and more things. 278 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: It's this kind of the opposite of the old wisdom 279 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: that if you're going to live a happy life you 280 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: need to keep your pleasures simple. Do you think something 281 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: that's too easily obtained can lose its sense of pleasure? 282 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: Like I think of this is the aphorism like no pain, 283 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: no gain. Yeah, absolutely very much, believing in struggling, fighting hard, 284 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: not getting things too easy in life. Of course, both 285 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,239 Speaker 1: you knew we should be careful not romantizing about it, 286 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: because of course many people are to talk like this 287 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: is almost obnoxious, because you know they have a daily 288 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: fight just to survive and support their families. But for 289 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: me it's maybe it sounds a bit strange to say, 290 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: but for me it's different because I live in quite 291 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: normal Norwegian middle class life. I grew up in a 292 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: typical Norwegian middle class family, and then you have to 293 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: make your life more difficult and you have to struggle. 294 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: And I think it's super important to struggle. But because 295 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: people know who has not been struggling, have been spoiled 296 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: throughout their whole lives, they get very boring and they 297 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: quite often complain that their lives are short, that is 298 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: not much excitement going on. So I don't think it's healthy. 299 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: I think life is a struggle. It should be a struggle. 300 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: The difference between walking or climbing up to the top 301 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: of a mountain compared to use a hell a culture 302 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: up to the same place. You know, it doesn't relate, 303 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: even if you at the summit is totally different. Flow 304 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: in the helicopter. You need to stuggle it, you need 305 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: to use some time, You need to feel the environment, 306 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: You need to kind of become a part of nature. 307 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: If you're going to appreciate climbing a mountain. One of 308 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: the meanings of life is to fulfill your own potentials. 309 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: And if you're going to do that, we really have 310 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: to get up and live an active life. And you 311 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: need to think you need to experience, you need to read, 312 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: you need to talk to people, you need to move around, 313 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: you need to be moved. Just when you get up 314 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: in the morning. Like you know, if you are a 315 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: fairly privileged life, you don't even need to get up 316 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: from bed. You can just stay in bed and your 317 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: moderate eventually give your food because she feels sorry for 318 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: you. You You can just remain in bed to just get 319 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: up in the morning. After that, everything kind of feels 320 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: nicier and easier, and then throughout the whole day. It 321 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: is very much about making life more difficult than it 322 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: has to be. Of course I'm more eager than most 323 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: of the people on it. And then the beauty, oh, 324 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: not getting a shape about it, and sometimes just remain 325 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: in bed. A variety is important. M hm m hmm. 326 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: I want to talking about a couple more expeditions that 327 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: you did in the US. Funny ten, I think right, 328 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: you went to New York and you did two very 329 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: different kinds of walks. Yeah, it walked like five days 330 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: and nights. Together with your fellow of American Steve Duncan, 331 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: who's urban history and an urban explorer. City shaped their 332 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: environment and the way they do that is through infrastructure 333 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: with some of the people. I came and went went 334 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: to Northern Bronx, walked through New York City, partly through 335 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: the train, water, subway and search systems that is beneath 336 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: the city streets. Navigating the literal underbelly of New York City. 337 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: You straight up like went up to like a manhood cover, 338 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: just lifted it up and just just drafted right. Sometimes 339 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: you could climb on fences and get into a tunnel 340 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: or something, but like just in Green Street and over Manhattan, 341 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: we just waited and it was no cars, and then 342 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: run over to the manhole and climbed in and cling 343 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: poop and the man holds back again and it was 344 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: down in the dark. So I've been Northern brown Swit 345 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: went into the sewage and walked down to Harlem and 346 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: then kind of crisscross the city through these tunnel systems 347 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: all to Shamaka Bay the Atlantic Ocean, and they have 348 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: to get that ball ground to change tunnels. Of course, 349 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: you can walk at subway tunnel through all of Manhattan, 350 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: but we want to have the variety. We want to 351 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: just see the city from the inside out and see 352 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: what the city would look like if you turned it 353 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: upside down, and it was great crossing the city with 354 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: a backpack, with a sleeping bag, little mattress, little cooker, 355 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: hit Waiders suggest Wailers. It's no hardship. It's not like 356 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: an ob expedition. It's kind of easy going. And I 357 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: guess the biggest risk was to be called by the police. 358 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: You were even laughing. Sometimes it's kind of playing flat 359 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: in the sewage, and so how we got absolutely soaking 360 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: webb wash. It was pretty crazy expedition, and even some 361 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: people living down there, not in the sewage, but in trentannels. 362 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: I'd really like New York City, and again I was 363 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: partly driven by curiosity to get to know New York 364 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: City even better. I'm not thinking about that expedition, or 365 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 1: like all the expeditions, unless I talk about it. Even 366 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: to me, it sounds strange thinking about it. Unfortunately, I 367 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: sat down off words to write down what we have 368 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: been through, because if you do it several years later, 369 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: it's a different story. So fortunately I wrote it down. 370 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: What I wrote my book two is kind of based 371 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: upon what I wrote in twenty ten, so it's pretty accurate. Well, 372 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm super happy with that that expedition and we didn't 373 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: get sick on that same trip to New York after 374 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: experiencing the city from the inside out, Stephen Erling side 375 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: from the top down, we'll climbed Williamsburg Bridge, but you know, 376 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: it's not really climbing. You have to climb some gates, 377 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: so it's a little bit risky, not super whiskey, and 378 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: then it's almost like stairs getting you to the top. 379 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: The biggest risk there is Toma sees you and reported 380 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: to the police, Like my friend Steve said, when it's 381 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: on the top of the bridge and sound there's absolutely 382 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: quiet down on the street below you. Then you're deep 383 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: because then the police has closed off the bridge. So 384 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: it's what like it's like super early in the morning 385 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: and you just go to the very top of the 386 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: Williamsburg Bridge and you have no permission to do it. 387 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, you don't get the permission that we were 388 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: happy to get that permission it was possible, but of 389 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: course they will never give you a permission, so you 390 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: have to do it without the permission. I'm not recommending 391 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: and want to do it, because you know it's not legal. 392 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: That's one thing, But I'm another think it's like all 393 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: this is a little bit anxious to me it was 394 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: worth it. If it's worth it for you, I don't know. 395 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: The beauty is that we understand there we had the 396 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: sunrise over seeing into Brooklyn and Queen's beyond that the Atlantic. 397 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: Of course, New York City is very much about making money, 398 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: and making money makes lots of noise. But as I said, 399 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: it was at night, early in the morning, so it 400 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: was fairly peaceful on the top of the bridge. And 401 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: to see a city kind of low and early in 402 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: the morning, to sit there still asleep and see the 403 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: sun is rising, it's a fantastic experience. Other way enreaching 404 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: experience and made me feel grateful. I think more people 405 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: should get up and wanting to see the sunrise, because 406 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: that puts your life into perspective. There's one more work 407 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: I want to talk about. You went in I think 408 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: you went to Los Angeles and walked from where to wear. 409 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: We walked Cesar Jervis Avenue, which is kind of east 410 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: in l A, walked down Caesar Chaves and into Sunset Boulevard, 411 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: and then we walked Stor Billward into the Pacific Ocean 412 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: to kind of walk into the whole city. He didn't 413 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: leave Caesar Chervis and Sunset Boulevard at all, so just 414 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: followed us two streets. We could probably have done it 415 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: in one long day, but we had three nights sleeping 416 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: and we did whatever we can do in l A. 417 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: On those streets. We didn't see anything that you don't 418 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: see if you're driving, but it's kind of the sort 419 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: in slow motion, and we saw it from a different 420 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: angle because you saw it from the curve of the road. 421 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: So for the first time in my life, I did 422 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: manicure and pedicure for me as no reagi, and I 423 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: thought was very exalted because it's so many pedicure manicure 424 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: saloons in l A's kind of get a feeling that 425 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: everybody is kind of doing pedicure on each other. We 426 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: went into the church or psychology and had nineteen in 427 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: its consultation, and the church concluded that we were all 428 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: insane but they could help us. And then we went 429 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: to all kinds of bars and you know, restaurants, etcetera. 430 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: And first night they slept at the hotel called Value In, 431 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: which is kind of hotel when you bring a person 432 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: to for maybe before half and over two hours and 433 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: go back home again just doing whatever you could do 434 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: on those two streets was not even dangerous, just kind 435 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: of interesting and fun to see. L A. It was 436 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: this truth that you got stopped by the cops for 437 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: walking because it just looks suspicious. Yeah, actually that's kind 438 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: of a cliche. I had read this novel from the 439 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: fifties that kind of this guy was speculating was going 440 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: to happen in the future. It happened to us in 441 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: East l A. It was pretty rough neighborhood. So the 442 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: police guy was just kind of wondering, you know, why 443 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: do you walk here with a small backpackage publicly a 444 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: bit suspicious And we told him what we were doing, 445 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: and he was very nice. It just said, you like 446 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: to take a photo with me, So it was a 447 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: very nice policeman. Did you experience any kind of Catharsis 448 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: hitting the Pacific Ocean? Yeah, this loneliness approaching the Pacific. 449 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: I've been driving through l A. Of course, when it's 450 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: also cars, you move slowly, but then you're kind of 451 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: piste off again and tie moves fast because nothing is happening, 452 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 1: or it's like at this life feel a little bit 453 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: meaningless because nothing is happening this time you're walking so 454 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: towards the oceans. It felt meaningful, and it felt like 455 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: so many things to see and to experience and to think. 456 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: And then ematually get to the ocean. You jump into 457 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: the ocean, you have a swim, and then you go 458 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: to this gladstones. I think the restaurant is at the 459 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: end there, and you have a cocktail, and life is great. 460 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: Any big expeditions planned or things that you want to do, No, No. 461 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: After this, I jump on my bike and go home 462 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: to cook for my kids. That's that's my thing today. 463 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: And I will do some hiking tomorrow. Day after tomorrow 464 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: I will go on long expeditions again. Most likely, of course, 465 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: nobody knows anything, but somehow, some of the biggest mistresses 466 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: in life or in the world is in your own backyard. 467 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: I think, to Arling's earlier point, if we are all 468 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: born explorers and in tandem philosophers, what is it that 469 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: each of us might be looking for? For Erling, the 470 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: answer was silence, not only in his surroundings, but silence 471 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: of the mind. That's next episode. This episode of Ephemeral 472 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: was written and assembled by Alex Williams, with producers Max 473 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: Williams and Trevor Young and editing by Rima Ilkali. Special 474 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: thanks to Nitro Sound in Oslo, Norway, and to Andrew 475 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: Howard for gifting me a copy of Silence in the 476 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: Age of Noise, which, along with Walking One Step at 477 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: a Time, are the books by Erling Kage on which 478 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: this conversation was based. Find them wherever books are sold, 479 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: and find us on the world wide Web at Ephemeral Show. 480 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 481 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 482 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.