1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: guest is Casey Bloys, Chairman and CEO. 5 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: Of HBO and Max. 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: Casey is one of the most influential people in entertainment today. 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 2: And he is also one of the most unassuming. 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: He has a hard and heavily scrutinized job, but he 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: is also unfailingly optimistic and always focused on what HBO 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: does best, make incredible shows. His programming team at HBO 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: has defied the odds and delivered a string of hits 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: of late from House of the Dragon, to The White Lotus, 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: to the Last of Us to Succession, Euphoria and Barry. 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: Bloys has also. 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: Been in the thick of the streaming wars as the 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: leader of content for Max, the fledgling streaming sibling of HBO. 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: The platform had a difficult birth as HBO Max in 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: May twenty twenty. It was re christened Max last month. 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: Max has had plenty of technical challenges, but on Bloy's 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: watch as content chief, it has fielded such top contenders 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: as Max and just like that the flight attendant, Love 22 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: and Death and more. Bloys addressed the HBO and Max 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: value propositions for consumers and many more topics during our 24 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: half hour conversation held on June seventh as part of 25 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: Variety's TV FYC Fest at the One Hotel in West Hollywood. 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: With the writer strike raging on, Bloys was gracious to 27 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: honor his long standing commitment to speak at our event 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: at a time when many executives are laying low. I 29 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: also appreciated Bloy's honesty in challenging my assessment of Succession 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: season one, as you'll hear, and for offering his candid 31 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: thoughts on AI and its use in entertainment. So get ready, 32 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: a wide ranging conversation about HBO and the media business 33 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: is coming up right after this break, and we're back 34 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: with HBO Chairman and CEO Casey Bloys. Let's address the 35 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: elephant in the room right now. This is a very 36 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: trying time for the creative community, given that there are 37 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: that there was a writer strike going on. There are 38 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: very difficult contract negotiations happening. We wish every single person 39 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: in that process, well, I don't want to be labor this, 40 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: but can you give us a sense like, how are 41 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: you all feeling right now at this moment as we're 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: at a you know, we're at a crossroads of sorts. 43 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm probably not going to say anything no 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: body that hasn't been said already. As someone who works 45 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 3: with writers, works with talent, I would just like us 46 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: all as an industry to you know, to figure it 47 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: out and for everybody to feel valued and get back 48 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: to at least for me, developing and producing great TV. 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 3: So but it's going to you know, it's going to 50 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 3: take some time, and everybody's got to feel that they 51 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 3: that they got a deal that values them. So I 52 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: understand that, and I get it, and I hope it 53 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 3: doesn't take longer than it. 54 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 2: Has to me too. We are absolutely in agreement with that. 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: Well, Casey, we thank you very much for hanging in 56 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: because we you know, we know it's a touchy time 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: and we do appreciate it. 58 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: Casey. 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: I was never so happy we put Casey on the 60 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: cover of Variety in February. I was never so happy 61 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: to have an executive on our cover. We had chased 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: this guy for years and he always said no, no, 63 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: I want to put it on the shows, and we finally, 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: we finally persuaded, And it was such a perfect timing 65 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: because it was just last of us came out, and 66 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: that one was I think a lot of us did 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: not see that coming. In terms of the we knew 68 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: it was HBO, we knew it was going to be quality, 69 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: But in terms of the emotional depth of that show 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: that must have been was the response and the execution 71 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: of what was you know, video game based ip did 72 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: the execution of the content and the response that it 73 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: got from the audience. 74 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: Did that surprise you? Was that a pleasant surprise to you? 75 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: It didn't surprise me, because obviously I think all of 76 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: our shows are special, you know, but you never know, 77 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 3: you know, even if you think something is the greatest 78 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 3: thing you've ever seen, you never know until you put 79 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 3: it out in the world. So I was really happy 80 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 3: to see the response, and I was happy for Craig 81 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 3: and Neil, and it was it was nice to see 82 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 3: everybody recognized, the cast and crew and directors. It's just 83 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 3: it was It's what you want to see when you 84 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: work so hard on a show. God, Craig's been developing 85 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: that for several years and so to have it come 86 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 3: out and be received like that is a very nice feeling. 87 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I did you sense in the early going, I mean, 88 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: for me as a viewer, not being very not being 89 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: familiar at all with the video game. For me as 90 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: a viewer, I did not expect the depth of the 91 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: relationship between Pedro, Pascal and Bella. I mean that that 92 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: was almost it almost became a buddy journey story. But 93 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: is certain that has many more chapters to go right now. 94 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: But was that something was that part of the show. 95 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: Was that something that you was up at? 96 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: That is that is I didn't know the video game? 97 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: I'm not I don't play video games, so it makes 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 3: two of us. Yeah, so I am really not a 99 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 3: video game person at all. I obviously knew what it 100 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 3: was when Craig said this is what I want to do. 101 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 3: I I I learned about it, but I know that 102 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: relationship is key to the video game and key obviously 103 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: to the show, and the relationship that Pedro and Bella 104 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: brought to screen I think is really what really touched 105 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 3: a lot of people. 106 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: Was there any in the early going of bringing Last 107 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: of Us to the screen? Was there a sense of 108 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: plotting along with the way the game evolved. It's such 109 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: a different type of material to adapt. It's not like 110 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: a novel or you know, it's a it's a more 111 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: open ended story on the on the game sete. 112 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: I'm just curious how you conceptionally attacked. 113 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: So what's funny about it is that the success of it, 114 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: we got a lot of questions about, like, so, are 115 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 3: you going to do more video games? You know? Is this? 116 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: Does this mean? 117 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: Of course? 118 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: Because like Lemmings, you know, yeah, and and I guess 119 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 3: the the lesson for me and my two cents, for 120 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: anybody who looks at it and says we got to 121 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 3: go develop a video game, the lesson for me was 122 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 3: not develop a video game and it'll be a hit. 123 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 3: The lesson for me is get in business with someone 124 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: like Craig and trust what they want to do. Craig. 125 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: The reason we did it is because after Chernobyl, we 126 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: had a great experience with Craig and we said to Craig, 127 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 3: what do you want to do next? And I know 128 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: from Chernobyl, I know when he sinks his teeth into something, 129 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: he becomes obsessed, which is what you want from a 130 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 3: from a creator. And I knew whatever he wanted to do. 131 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 3: It would be something special, and so he said, I 132 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 3: want to do Last of Us. And we were lucky 133 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: because then Neil, who created the video game, Neil Druckman, 134 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: Neil Truman, went along on that journey with Craig as well, 135 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: and he directed episodes and wrote episodes, so we were 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 3: doubly lucky to have him involved. But the lesson is 137 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 3: not develop video games. It is being business with people 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 3: that you trust and support them in what they want 139 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: to do and follow their instincts. I think anyway, that's 140 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: that's my two coming out of that. That's my two cents. 141 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: Is if another if another writer who we like and 142 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 3: admire says I've got to develop this video game. There's 143 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 3: nothing else I can do, There's nothing else that will 144 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: fit my brain but this video game, and I've got 145 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 3: to do it, I'd go okay, But I don't know 146 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 3: that I would and I had we haven't scoured video 147 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 3: game titles and said okay, you know, here's here's what 148 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: we should do. 149 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: It was it was the story of last Story. 150 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I will say I know it was. It 151 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: was Craig. And then obviously in my mind, I thought, well, 152 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 3: Craig is really into this, and and I was the 153 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 3: idea of and it was not a zombie show but 154 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: a post apocalyptic setting. I thought that could be really 155 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: interesting to see what Craig would do with that. So 156 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 3: I thought the combo could be interesting. But again the 157 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 3: lesson for me is following the creator, following the creators, 158 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: not necessarily starting with the I P and M doing that. 159 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: Did you do anything in any of the marketing or 160 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: any of the outreach or you know, kind of building 161 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: buzz for the show. Did you in any way target 162 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the video game? Oh? 163 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeahmunity, Yeah. Sony was very helpful, right. 164 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: Sony Pictures Television produce the series. It's based on a 165 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: PlayStation game, so. 166 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: They were very helpful. Naughty Dog, which is Neil's company 167 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 3: that created the game, was very helpful in terms of 168 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 3: getting the work. It was a very getting the word 169 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: out to the Last of US fans and the video 170 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 3: game fans. The Last of US fan base is very active, 171 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 3: very supportive, so that was a nice That was a 172 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: nice benefit of doing the show. 173 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: And from as I have learned from gamers that it 174 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: is that it is of all types of games that 175 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: would lend itself because it is such an emotional story 176 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: that is that. 177 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: That did in that journey. 178 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: Their relationship, I think is what sets it apart from 179 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 3: other video game titles. 180 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: I think, all right, well, I want to also ask 181 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: you have so many shows. We have an embarrassment of 182 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: riches here, but I have to ask you. I have 183 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: to ask you about succession. 184 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: I mean truly. 185 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: First of all, I think the first victory there was 186 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: was really season one. There was a bit of a 187 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: slow build, but from about halfway through season one. 188 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 3: Although wait, let me just say one thing on that. Okay, 189 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 3: I just want to say one thing. I thought the 190 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: show was the show from the beginning. I think it 191 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: took some time for people to understand what it was doing. 192 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: But it was funny. I saw, you know, I follow 193 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: the reaction to the show in real time. So I'm 194 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 3: going back to the first season. But a lot of 195 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: people are like it finally found its voice in the 196 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 3: third episode. I'm like, third, that was used to take 197 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 3: shows three seasons to find their voice, you know, so, 198 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 3: but I think it was there from the beginning. 199 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: But okay, everything is accelerated these days. But what I 200 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: actually meant was just in terms of the reaction, the 201 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: show was absolutely there. 202 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: From the from the very get go. 203 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: Of course, we all remember that opening image that will 204 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: never forget Logan Roy. We saw him as the most intimate, 205 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: but in terms of reaction and then from honestly, from 206 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: about halfway through season one, it did become in a way, 207 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: Last of Us also achieved this must see you getting 208 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: people to tune in on a getting me to tune 209 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: in on a Sunday night at nine, making sure don't 210 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: call me, don't everybody knows I'm you know, I'm watching 211 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: my show. 212 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: That's rare. That's rare these days. 213 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: I honestly think that is that is so rare these 214 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: days that it's fun. It's fun for people that love 215 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: their show so much. Do you know when did you 216 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: know that you were that you had touched that nerve 217 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: with succession? Obviously you knew the quality was there from. 218 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 3: I following the first season, it really did seem to 219 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 3: catch on. I remember when we did it. One of 220 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 3: the things when we we shot a pilot and you know, 221 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: remember there's no IP, you know, there's no video game 222 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: it's based on, and we purposely didn't go for you know, 223 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 3: Adam McKay was directing, so he had a lot of 224 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 3: people who would have come to work with him, but 225 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: we wanted I didn't want to push anybody to higher 226 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 3: stars or anything, just kind of like whoever you thought 227 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: the best actor was. So we were going out in 228 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: the world with a show that was not based on 229 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: IP and had no giant movie stars attached. So it 230 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 3: was I don't wanna say a tough sell because that's 231 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: not fair to the show, but the fact that it 232 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: was able to break through, But you know, it was 233 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 3: a pretty amazing thing. I think it's estimate to Jesse's 234 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 3: writing in the cast and mark mylot, but I would 235 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: say probably halfway through the season, when people kind of 236 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: understood what it was doing and the rhythms and the 237 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 3: mix of comedy and drama, that there was something special there. 238 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: You know, I have to ask you, have you ever 239 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: heard from any of the Murdochs about the show. 240 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: I have not. 241 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 3: You know, I've anecdotally heard you know, somebody whose cousin's 242 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 3: brother knows so and so, and you know, so I 243 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 3: have no idea. I don't know. 244 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: You haven't gotten any idio signed notes from Rupert. 245 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: I haven't nothing. 246 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: Well, I do know that Jesse Armstrong has absolutely been 247 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: clear that it is an amalgam of some characters. Although 248 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: there are definitely having covered the Murdocks for a long time, 249 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: there are definitely some and what I just we all 250 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: know because we work in the business. I mean there 251 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: are some types, some personality types among the corporate roles 252 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: that they get that they nail so so well. 253 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:51,479 Speaker 2: It's incredible. 254 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: Let me ask you so fast forwarding to the end, 255 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: I really think you all have shown incredible discipline in 256 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: not no spinoffs. There are any number of characters, you know, 257 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: leading characters, supporting characters that we would all want to 258 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: spend more time with. But I know you feel strongly 259 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: about well. 260 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: I guess I would make the same I would use 261 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 3: this to make the same point I made about Craig 262 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 3: and the Last of Us. If Jesse said to me, 263 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 3: I have got to do a Tom and Greg spinoff, 264 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: I can't, you know, like I've just got to It's 265 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: what I I creatively, It's I can't get out of 266 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 3: my head and I have to do it. 267 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: The title is there, the Disgusting. 268 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 3: Brothers, Yes, exactly. If Jesse wanted to do that, I 269 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: would follow his lead and say great. But he you know, 270 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: I think it was the right decision because there are 271 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 3: some I think there are some shows that naturally lead themselves, 272 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: a show like House the Dragon coming out of Game 273 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: of Thrones. You know, George's universe is so huge, I mean, 274 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 3: spans hundreds of years and many families, and there's battles 275 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: and civil wars and all of that stuff that kind 276 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: of lens itself more logically to spin offs or trying 277 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: again this one. I think it's it's obviously fun to 278 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 3: think about the the combinations, but if Jesse's not feeling it, 279 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 3: I'm not you know, I'm not going to go down 280 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: that road. If he's not feeling. 281 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: It, I think, I hear you. I still think incredible discipline. 282 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: So many other places would have been you know, succession, Sydney, where. 283 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: Wherever it might go. 284 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: When Jesse, I know you you talked about, you know, Jesse, 285 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: when Jesse came to tell you that he felt like 286 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: season four was the time to end, did you try 287 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: to persuade him or so? 288 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 3: I I kind of knew that we were that season four. 289 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 3: I knew about Logan, I knew that that was going 290 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 3: to happen, and so I think the sense was this 291 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 3: was probably it the only the only kind of advice 292 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 3: I gave to Jesse was like, just you know, whatever 293 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 3: you want to do is what we'll do. Just think 294 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 3: about it, because you do have this amazing cast, and 295 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: it's an amazing you know, it's lightning in a bob. 296 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: It's quite a company. 297 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, but so so just really really be sure that 298 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 3: it's time to go. And I also knew Jesse is 299 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: an incredibly thoughtful writer, and I knew if I he 300 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: would naturally kind of go through that process of do 301 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 3: I see anything here? Do I not see anything here? 302 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 3: And so I knew we would end up in the 303 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 3: right place regardless. So and I know he went back 304 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: and forth, and I think he wanted to make sure 305 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 3: that he wasn't leaving anything on the table. But I 306 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 3: trust that he fully felt that that was the right thing. 307 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: And I and as I said, when I saw the finale, 308 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: it was the only way that Succession could end. It 309 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: was to me, it was kind of a perfect ending. 310 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 3: So I think it was again, if you're following the 311 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 3: creator's lead, probably be a good place, a good good 312 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 3: place to go. 313 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 2: That is the recurring theme. 314 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: And since Casey is literally one of the most successful 315 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: development people of the last. 316 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: Twenty five years. I think that follows listen to the 317 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: creed the writer exactly. 318 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 3: Although you can give them notes, you can push them, 319 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 3: you can debate, but ultimately you've got to, you know, 320 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 3: follow their. 321 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: Leader, don't go anywhere. There's more from HBO leader Casey 322 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: Bloys coming up right after this break, and we're back 323 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: with more from HBO chairman and CEO Casey Bloys again 324 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: in the category of I have to ask you, so 325 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: much of what was going on with succession a little 326 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: close to real life for Warner Brothers, Discovery and all 327 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: of the different. 328 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: Pass to the entire media eCos. 329 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,120 Speaker 1: Very much, very much so definitely not Warner Brothers Discover 330 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: being in a vacuum. But did that ever did you 331 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: all ever reflect on that, like, Wow, this is a 332 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: little bit of a mirror. 333 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 3: Now, probably been in't too meta if I thought about 334 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 3: it too much. But again, I think the real Jesse 335 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 3: and the writers do a ton of research about media. 336 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 3: So the reason that it plays feel so real to 337 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: us is it's really informed by an extraordinary amount of 338 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 3: research talking to experts in media and news and you know, 339 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 3: obviously we've talked about we've had wealth consultants. It all 340 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: is meant to feel very real. So they they they 341 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 3: capture it because they work so hard at doing it 342 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: at the lingo and the possibilities of a media merger 343 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 3: and what could happen and what might happen. So I 344 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 3: don't think it's it makes sense that it would mirror 345 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 3: a lot of what's going on in any media company 346 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 3: right now, because it is based on actual conversations with 347 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 3: people in the business. 348 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: I mean, knowing the lead time that they had to 349 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: produce episodes. The way that they were it seemed like 350 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: they were commenting on things that we had the Variety 351 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: was reporting about, you know, the previous day. 352 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 2: It was so so spot on. 353 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: All right, I will not talk take the whole half 354 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: an hour to talk about succession, but I. 355 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 2: Do last that I have to ask. 356 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: Did you did you were you rooting for any one 357 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: of the siblings? Were you rooting for a a success 358 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: Thank you? 359 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 3: Thank you for asking that, because the one thing I 360 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 3: want to make sure you know, nobody won. None of 361 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 3: the siblings won. No, and even Tom didn't win. If 362 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: anybody won, it's Matson, and he will go on to 363 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 3: screw up his kids, like Logan. Did you know? So 364 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 3: maybe in twenty five years, someone can do the mats 365 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: in succession story. But there was no no. Tom didn't win. 366 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 3: I don't think nobody really won. And that was kind 367 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 3: of the point, you know, Jesse said at one point. 368 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 3: I thought it was a great phrase. Logan was guarding 369 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: an empty safe. You know, the kids were fighting for 370 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 3: this thing and there's nothing there. You know, there's nothing there. 371 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 3: So uh but that said, I, if anybody should have won, 372 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: Jerry should have. Jerry should have gone. She was the 373 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 3: most capable, so she should have won, if anybody. 374 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: Won by the sweat equity pleasure pressure. I just love 375 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: how she unfired herself. She just decided I was on fired. 376 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: I thought that was so and such again we again, 377 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: we could talk for the whole half now. But just 378 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: such great casting. I mean, to give her such a 379 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: such a media role. Let me ask you about you 380 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: you've made. I mean I could go, you know, House 381 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: of the Dragon, White Lotus Berry, so many July twelfth 382 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: and Denominations Day should be a very should be a 383 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: very bountiful morning for HBO. 384 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: Knock on Wood. I'm superstitious. 385 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: I won't ask you. I know that's like asking you 386 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: to pick a favorite child. I would not ask you that, 387 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: but let me ask you about though, something that is 388 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: not in contention for this year's at means, because it 389 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: has just arrived and it has made quite a splash 390 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: the idol. 391 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 3: Yes, how are you? 392 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 2: How do you feel about how that show has gotten off? 393 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: Obviously I knew it was going to be controversial. I 394 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 3: was not necessarily looking at reviews on that show. But 395 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 3: it made it did what I thought it was going 396 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 3: to do. Was it made a splash. If you think 397 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 3: about it, it's been on the air for three days, 398 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 3: four days. There's not been in New York Times. I 399 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: was going to say, there was another article in the 400 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 3: New York Times wondering if it can bring back the 401 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 3: erotic thriller, And there was a Wall Street Journal article 402 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 3: wondering if rat Tails were coming back. So that's in 403 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 3: four days. So you know, you want shows to be 404 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 3: part of the conversation. You want them to provoke. Maybe 405 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 3: the rat Tail. 406 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 2: One is a you know, that's the one you could lose, right. 407 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 3: Maybe maybe not, but anyway, so it's kind of doing 408 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 3: what we kind of expected and thought it was going 409 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: to do. 410 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 2: You knew going in it was going to prove it 411 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 2: was going to provoke, do you is that? 412 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: Is that a metric of sorts the level of like 413 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: I mean not only social commentary and social media, but 414 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: like commentary at the level of the New York Times. 415 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: I mean we used to we used to say, you know, 416 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 3: for you want a show to go from the entertainment 417 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 3: pages of the opinion, you know, like you want it 418 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: to be discussed in all realms. It's certainly something that 419 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: our shows do. And and I like the fact that 420 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 3: people have opinions, strong opinions, positive and negative about a 421 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 3: lot of the stuff that we do, because you kind 422 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 3: of want to, you know, ultimately, it is good for 423 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 3: your brand to be out there and people discussing the 424 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 3: shows and caring that much about the shows that they 425 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 3: do have opinions on who won or whether a rat 426 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: tail is coming back. 427 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, A lack of interest is probably probably 428 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: the worst thing these days. Well, let's take a hard 429 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: pivot from from this conversation, because I actually do want 430 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: I know that I know that this is something that 431 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: you've been thinking about, something the industry has been thinking about, 432 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: and something that is an issue right now that is 433 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: an issue in Hollywood's contract talks, and that is artificial 434 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: intelligence and its role in the creative process. And I 435 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: think we can tell by the applause and boomy. 436 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: You're here, Yes, so as you can imagine. 437 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: But for anybody that's you know, any of us with 438 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: a variety at HBO, that cop that all work in 439 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: copyright based businesses, work in the world of filling the 440 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: blank page with words, it's a little scary time. Can 441 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: you talk at all about on a high level how 442 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: you're thinking about that? 443 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I so the caveat or two things 444 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 3: to keep in mind when I say this. One is 445 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: remember I grew up in bethlen, Pennsylvania, which is steel town. 446 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 3: So I am very very aware of what happens when 447 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: a company does not think about the future as not aware. 448 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: Of the future, that is very seriously. 449 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 3: But also I've been at HBO for nineteen years and 450 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 3: I have never tested a pilot to decide whether to 451 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 3: pick it up or not. That we just don't use 452 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 3: all of the kind of things that other places is 453 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 3: just not something we do. So my take on AI 454 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 3: I just the idea that AI would be involved in 455 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 3: any sort of development or the creative process in the 456 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 3: kinds of shows that I do, or we do at HBO, 457 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 3: I just don't think that's that's not something I want 458 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 3: to be a part of. So I think if it 459 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: does become something, and I hope I don't sound like 460 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 3: a Seal executive in the seventies, but I just can't 461 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 3: see it, And if it is, I hope to god 462 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 3: I'm retired by that point. I am sure. Now that said, 463 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 3: I am sure there is very smart and useful ways 464 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 3: to use it that smart people are thinking about. But 465 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: in the creative process what I'm mostly concerned about development 466 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 3: and working with writers, I don't see it. And for 467 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 3: almost I've been at HBoL for nineteen years, almost that 468 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 3: entire time, people kept coming to us and saying, scripted 469 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 3: short form content is the future, and you guys got 470 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: to figure it out, and I kept saying, don't. I 471 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 3: don't see it. I don't think so I don't see it. 472 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 3: So I think I was right about that, and I 473 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 3: think I'm right about this. 474 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: Well. 475 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: The courage of your convictions has served you really well 476 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: so far, so. 477 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 3: Well, and I guess I should. If a creator came 478 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 3: to us and said I am desperate to use AI 479 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 3: in my development process, I guess I would think they 480 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 3: were wrong. But you know, I can't imagine that happening though. 481 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: I just can't. 482 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I think it's something that is 483 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: so it's so new that we all can't wrap our 484 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: heads around it, which is like these are things we've 485 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: been saying regularly these days that you know, this. 486 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 3: Is I get to retire before we actually have to 487 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: deal with this. 488 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 2: Exactly, but it is. 489 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: You know, the scary part is that it is fed 490 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: by ingesting other works, which is like that you know 491 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: where where the where the line is that is going 492 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: to be the art. 493 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 3: There is so much to legal scholars, that's right, exactly, 494 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 3: There's so much that it is so new and there's 495 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 3: so much to figure out. It is a little scary. 496 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: Let me ask you yet another hard pivot here. I 497 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: want to ask you, Uh, there's so much to talk about. 498 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: We could we could go on longer, but obviously HBO 499 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: and the parent company have been through a you know, 500 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: been through a process of brand iteration for both HBO, 501 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: for both Max, we don't need to talk over every detail, 502 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: every step of the boy. But what would you like 503 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: to leave this audience with and the streaming audience with 504 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,479 Speaker 1: in terms of how you are thinking about Max and 505 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: how you are thinking about HBO as you are the 506 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: creative steward of both. 507 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 3: I get asked about it a lot, so this is. 508 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: Not the first time you've heard this. 509 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 3: So here's here's the the issue. When HBO Max was created, Remember, 510 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 3: nobody from HBO was involved in that back in the day. 511 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 3: So when they put HBO in the two regimes two 512 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 3: regimes ago, yes I've lost. But when you put HBO 513 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 3: in the title, whatever follows it HBO Max, h whatever 514 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 3: was that becomes HBO and HBO was not designed to 515 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 3: be a brand that took on repeats and reality television, 516 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 3: and you know, it was very specifically for our lineup 517 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 3: of Sunday night programming, Bill Maher, John Oliver documentaries, first 518 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 3: Pay one movies. It was not designed to represent as 519 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 3: a brand all this stuff. It did that during HBO 520 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 3: Max a lot of stuff. You know, I would see 521 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 3: things written to drive me crazy. Why ISO f Boy 522 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 3: Island on HBO and I to go It's not really 523 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 3: you know, the problem. The challenge was we had spent 524 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 3: two years as HBO Max or three years. I'm losing 525 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: track of time. I think it was three years. So 526 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 3: we spent just said HBO Max, people got used to it. 527 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 3: I believe we ended up in the right place, which 528 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 3: is max Is. I like to think of Max as 529 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 3: a little bit like a cable bundle. You know, HBO. 530 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: In the history of tech, bundling has always been whether 531 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 3: it's in network television was a bundle. The cable bundle 532 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 3: obviously was a bundle. The history of HBO was always 533 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 3: an add on to a larger a larger amount of indifference. 534 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 2: There was the first step to just even getting in 535 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: the door. 536 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 3: Yes, so HBO is a standalone product, really only existed 537 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 3: for a couple of years with HBO now, but it 538 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: it is successful when it's part of a larger package. 539 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 3: That was what the cable bundle was. And even in 540 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: the cable bundle, to get to channel two hundred and five, 541 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: you had to flip through a bunch of other channels 542 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 3: to get to HBO. So now that people have seen MAX, 543 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 3: I hope you've noticed that the very top is HBO. 544 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 3: So if you sign on you just want to go 545 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 3: to HBO, you can go right there and in the 546 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 3: brand rails there's HBO, there's HGTV, there's Food Network. So 547 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 3: if you the only experience you want to have is 548 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 3: going to HBO. You can do that just like you 549 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 3: had to do in the cable bundle, flip through channels 550 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 3: to get there and just live there. But the reality 551 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 3: is most people coming in and we're seeing more of 552 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 3: it now, want to see other things. They don't want 553 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 3: to just watch HBO. They want to watch movies, they 554 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: want to watch library content, they want to watch other things. 555 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 3: And for HBO to be healthy, it's got to be 556 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 3: a part of a larger ecosystem. And as a matter 557 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 3: of fact, at this point for HBO, the average show 558 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 3: is getting about sixty to seventy percent of its viewership 559 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 3: from max as opposed to Live as opposed to Linear. 560 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: That's interesting. So it's significant. 561 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 3: So if we didn't have I mean, because obviously the 562 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 3: you know, the linear bundle is praying if we didn't 563 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: have that, we would you know, not be in good 564 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 3: shape and right, you know, so this is really about 565 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 3: saving you know, or securing the future of HBO. So 566 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 3: now it can live as HBO. It doesn't have to 567 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 3: take on, you know, thousands of hours of discovery content 568 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 3: that came on. It can just be what it is 569 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be defined by anything else 570 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 3: other than what the team at HBO develops and puts 571 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: on the air. 572 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: And you have done your job in bringing people to 573 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: the screen. I mean again, we could just go down 574 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: the list, last of us, House of the Dragon, the. 575 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 2: Bury, the White Lotus. 576 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: I mean just so many, so many great shows and 577 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: more on the horizon. 578 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, True Detective, which I have seen and it's very good. 579 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: So look for that in the fall. 580 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 581 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: Anything else, any other as oh, we are out of 582 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: time here, anything you want to leave us with, anything 583 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: we should be watching out for, either on HBO or Max. Anything, 584 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: maybe a little under the radar we should watch out. 585 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 3: Well, it's not under the radar, but the second season 586 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 3: of and just like that. I've heard of that show, Yes, yes, 587 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 3: lately it's been in the news a little bit. And 588 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: then we have the second season of Winning Time, which 589 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 3: is a great show. John, thank you, John c Riley 590 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 3: is so good. So we're excited about that. I don't 591 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 3: think we've announced the date yet, but we are going 592 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: too soon. We've got that, We've got the Gilded Age, 593 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 3: We've got I'm gonna go through Hope. We've got rap 594 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 3: shit coming back, We've got our Flagman's death, so we've 595 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 3: got a bunch of stuff coming up. 596 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: Awesome. Casey, thank you so much for your time. Thanks 597 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: really deeply appreciate it. Thanks for listening. Be sure to 598 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: leave us a review at Apple Podcasts and Amazon Music. 599 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: We love to hear from listeners. Please go to Variety 600 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: dot com and sign up for our free weekly Strictly 601 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune in next week 602 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: for another episode of Strictly Business.