WEBVTT - 091220 ft. Zarra from BLM 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:01.480 Yes, yes, y'all. 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:05.480 This is Civic Cipher and I'm your host, Rams's Jah 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:10.039 And of course this show exists to empower the community 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:15.640 and give a voice to the movements, the various movements 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:22.560 and the struggles even and really to empower us all individually, 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:25.800 as groups, as cultures, and as far as we relate 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.920 to each other. And today's guest on the show is 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.280 somebody that I don't even know if I want to 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.000 call you a personal hero, but I think I'm gonna 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.239 go ahead and say it, just because I've been so 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.239 inspired by you that I've changed the significant amount of 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.159 my life just to make sure that I get a 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:52.760 chance to interview you. Her name is Zara and she 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.840 is the Minister of Activism with Black Lives Matter. 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:58.680 So welcome to the show. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.880 And thanks for having me. I appreciate it. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.959 So a little bit more about how I got a 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.480 chance to get to know Zara is I went to 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.200 a protest in Timpe. Now i'd seen her before, we 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.080 actually had a chance to talk before. But in the 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:24.200 wake of the killing of George Floyd and Brianna Taylor 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.160 and Dion Johnson, you know, there were a lot of 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:34.280 rallies where I live in Phoenix, and I went out 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.000 to a lot of the Black Lives Matter protests. I 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:38.920 got a chance to see a lot of the organization, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.560 and I showed up with a bullhorn just because I 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.400 had one, and one of the other people that had 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.360 a bullhorn was Zara, and so I did my best 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.120 to echo sort of what she was saying, because when 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.760 there's a crowd of four or five thousand people, would 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.920 you say something like that, there's a lot of folks 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.880 out there. When a crowd is that big, you in 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:04.280 up not really reaching everybody with a bullhorn. You know, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.680 a bullhorn is good for like the first three hundred people. 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.000 When you have three thousand, it's just not going to work. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.639 So we had to kind of echo the message throughout 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.680 the crowd. And I noticed very early on that what 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.440 she was saying was very potent and very powerful, and 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:18.000 I really. 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:18.840 Wanted to make sure that. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.840 She had a chance to get on the air and 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:26.840 say some of the things that she was saying that 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.600 energized the crowd and motivated people to take action. And also, 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.960 you know, after those first couple of protests, I would 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.519 come home and I would watch like twelve News and 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.360 some of the other media outlets, and I recognized that 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.560 there was not two sides. There was not a lot 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.720 of balance there. It was, you know, those guys telling 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.560 their version of the story. In other words, to them, 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.760 everyone was a rioter. You know, there were riots and 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.440 all that sort of stuff. And then I was there 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.880 with my children, you know, and it wasn't that. It 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.360 was very much to empower the community. And so I 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:05.160 felt like, this woman is one of the women who 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:10.239 needed a platform to say something. And when I saw 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.360 her in Tempe, there was another protest in timp We 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:19.120 stopped by the courthouse and you stood up with I 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.920 think there was like a like a gate or something 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.360 covering like a water maine or something. You stood on that, 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.799 you got a bullhorn again and you just addressed this 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.280 huge crowd and it was so potent, it was so powerful, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.600 and it really spoke to what it was that was happening, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.880 sort of the spirit of the movement. And again that's 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:40.880 when I decided, you. 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.000 Know what I need to do more than just show up. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.960 I need to lend as many resources to this as 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.200 I can, specifically to this message. And you happen to 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.720 be the person carrying that message, and it moved me 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:57.920 and my chop. We talked about that when we went home. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.080 A lot of the things that you said, and so 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.279 I wanted to say that just so that you understand 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.280 exactly how important this meeting was to me. And of 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.480 course on the show, we're going to have sit down 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.480 conversations with lots of folks who are very active in 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.640 the community, but this one was a long time coming 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.599 and I and again, I appreciate you coming out. So 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.159 I think first things first, tell me a little bit 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:28.919 about what got you into activism. 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:34.320 Yeah, so there's a few things that got me into activism. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.320 I think I was a little bit inclined because my 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.280 mom and my sister were involved in their union. They're 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:47.040 both nurses, and so kind of through that was able 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:51.039 to kind of have a consciousness of that things were 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.200 not right, that healthcare should be free, that education should 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.240 be free, and that, you know, just a critical consciousness. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:03.680 But really what me out was during occupy and when 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.080 the student. 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.279 Debt hit UH larger than. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.760 The UH then like home mortgages and it hit like 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:18.479 one trillion, and I remember that moment and remembering, you know, 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.760 UH that like this the system is rigged in that 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.440 we have you know, a bunch of uh the one 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.400 percent that is oppressing the ninety nine percent. 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.640 And uh, I really got involved then. 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:36.480 And then continued to uh do active vism, whether it 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:42.640 was about inequality or environmental justice. Uh, but it really 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.760 got me involved in the activism I'm doing now with 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:46.640 Black Lives Matter. 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:48.880 You know, was. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:56.640 First uh going to South Africa right before the Trayvon 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.960 Martin shooting and being able to see that white supremacy 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.240 global and that around. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:03.320 The world we have. 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.440 We have a system where our lives don't matter simply 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.160 because the color of our skin. And you know, I 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.800 always thought, oh the motherline, everything would be better there. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.679 And to see black people still as second rate, still 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:22.320 their lives still don't matter on their indigenous homeland in 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.479 South Africa, and then to come home and see this 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.120 young boy being murdered simply because he was black. It 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.960 really pulled me into the streets and you know, decided 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:35.279 we're going to do something about this. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.200 Very good. You know, it's funny. I saw something the 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:45.360 other day. So we're we're recording this on the heels 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:53.080 of the shootings in Kenosha, Wisconsin. And something that is 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.560 very telling is that there was a I mean, I'm 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.719 sure everyone knows the story, but there's a young white 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.880 male years old walking down the street with an clearly 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:08.520 visible assault rifle and he's walking toward the police, and 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.680 he's walking past the police. He's not pointing the gun 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.760 at them. But it's that doesn't matter because I saw 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.360 something last night. The Atlanta Black Star put up a 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.800 clip and this was I want to say September second, 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:28.440 twenty twenty and Washington, DC, and there was a kid. 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:29.920 He was on live stream. I think he had just 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:34.200 turned eighteen. He's on live stream and he's in I 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.160 look like some projects. I'll tell you the story if 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.040 you don't know. He's sitting in the car with some 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.080 of his other friends and he's sort of showing off 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.800 a gun. What happens is the police see the live 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.200 stream and they pull up and they shoot the kid, okay, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.840 but not before the kid throws the gun as far 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.080 away from the officer as possible. They found the gun 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.760 so far away, and then there's bodycam footage of the 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.520 guy who runs and shoots the kid in the chest. 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.000 So the kid was running away as he threw the gun. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:05.840 The officer circled around front of him and shot him 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.440 in the chest, and obviously he died and then went 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:10.720 to go look for the gun. It took him like 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.520 five minutes to find the gun that was so far away, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.600 and I think it shows that panic response with the police. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.400 But I want to say something real quick, just while 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.680 we're here, and to anyone that will listen, now that 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.760 I have a microphone and an audience, having a gun 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.440 is not always a crime. You know, this kid was 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.760 an adult and so forth and so on. But even 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.520 if you wanted to make that argument, I think Zara 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.000 kind of touched on the fact that there are certain 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:42.319 economic conditions that really lend themselves to black and brown 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:47.080 folks ending up in environments where, you know, sometimes you 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:51.960 have to fight for survival, or fight to protect the 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.920 things that you've earned, or you know, anything like that, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:57.960 and so a lot of times in those environments you 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.960 do find people that protect themselves in that way. And 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.320 if having a gun is not necessarily a crime, especially 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.000 if it's not pointed at an officer, and it makes 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.000 sense that a lot of people in those really harsh 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.559 environments do have weapons or other means of protecting themselves, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.559 then to show up and shoot them is more indicative 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.960 of a panic response than it is of just the 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:21.959 normal state of things. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:29.640 With that said, I want to touch on this rallying cry. 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.640 That initially it might sound jarring to people who, you know, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.440 maybe when they first heard it, or maybe they have 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.240 heard it over and over again and maybe not know 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.160 exactly what it means. But you explained it so well, 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.240 what does defund the police mean? 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.920 Yeah, I think it's really important for folks to realize 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.439 because when people say defund the police, a lot of 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:58.640 you know, the white middle class have been like you 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:03.200 talking about perge, you know, and you know. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:04.600 It's not that it's not that. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.360 It's really important to see that where we're at and 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.480 what public safety means, and when we look at where 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.839 we're at right now, we know that especially in poorer neighborhoods, 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.920 but even in rich white neighborhoods, you call the cops 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.520 after the crime has happened, right, You call the cops 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:24.920 once they've broken into your house. You call the cops 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.440 after something's been stolen, after harm has been had. So 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.400 if we can agree on that, then we can agree 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.560 that the police aren't keeping us safe. They're they're just 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.080 coming after to try to you know, clean up after 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:38.720 the mess. 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:39.160 Has been made. 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.640 What we're calling for is preventative measures. We're calling for 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.720 Why is that person breaking into your house in the 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:45.400 first place? 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.440 Why what made them? What pushed on that? 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.319 Is it mental health? Is it drug addiction? Is it poverty? 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.400 Those are systemic issues and we can fix those issues. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.840 So when we call for defunding the police, or we're 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.080 calling for as an investment into communities, an investment into 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:07.080 mental health, an investment into community services, into being able 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.720 to address systemic poverty, being able to Right now, we 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.360 do not have no social safety net for those who 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.920 have mental health issues, and when we call the police, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.440 they often end up dead. So what we're calling for 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:20.960 is a change to that, and I think that's something 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.120 that we can all agree on. Even police, I think 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.720 will agree that they are not and they've said it before, 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.520 they're not able to handle They do not have the skills. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:30.319 Or equipped with. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.360 The tools to be able to handle mental health issues, 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:41.680 to handle homelessness, to handle drug addiction. And yet those 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.880 are the people who are being called. So when we 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.360 call for defunding the police, we're calling for other people 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.400 to call. Who else can we call to address drug addiction, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.440 who actually has the skills and the tools and the 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.000 training to be able to help in that situation instead 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:57.280 of what do police have. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.200 They had they're armed with only guns. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.600 And so what ends up happening is people who are 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.240 in crisis then have a cops call on them, and 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.959 then it creates a larger crisis. So when we call 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.840 for defunding the police, we're calling for a reimagination of 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.960 what safety is and the rebuilding and restructuring of the 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.240 social safety net so that these crimes don't happen. And 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.920 that makes us all safer because you know, when we 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.000 strengthen the social safety net, when we make sure we 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.319 leave no one behind, that's how you actually reduce crime. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.520 It's not by getting more cops on the street. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.120 It's by preventing people from having to do these crimes 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.080 in the first place, because no one actually wants to 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:40.720 commit crimes. You know, it's the society that creates the 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.480 structures where causes people to feel like they have no 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.040 other option but to commit these crimes. And so once 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:52.240 we invest in community, we will we reduce our reliance 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.480 on police. And that doesn't make us less safe, that 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.000 makes us more safe. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:02.800 Okay, So what do you say to someone who says, well, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.920 in recent years there has been an increase in police 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:12.800 funding and a decrease in the overall crime rate, and 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.840 that correlation cannot be ignored. What do you say to 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.240 a person with an argument like that. 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:23.920 So crime actually started going down, and under Bill Clinton, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:29.559 and despite the fact that crime was going down, which had. 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.920 There was a lot of factors in why that happened. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.240 But uh, while crime was going down, he actually pushed 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.640 for the Crime Bill, push pushed for further criminalization of 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:46.679 people and also for further funding of police departments in prisons. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:54.080 And so we've created this system based off of this fear. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.880 And when you look at the type of ads Clinton 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.880 was running to pass the crime Bill, it was criminalization 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:06.520 and primarily of black men, you know, and the right 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:11.520 still does this and you know that basically it's scare tactics. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.719 But when you look at the data, we see that 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:18.320 crime has been going down regardless, and yet we've put 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.720 all this money into police and what is that done? 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.880 You know, how are we even defining crime because police 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.840 killings have been going up as we've been overfunding these 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.600 police departments, as we've been hiring military people, to treat 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:37.520 the streets of America like a battleground, and does that 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.760 make it safer? I think we could all agree that 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.640 doesn't make it safer. So I think when we look 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:49.400 at what's needed and what helps, it's not more funding 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:55.400 to the police department. Researchers shown a great way to 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:00.480 decrease crime is actually to fund pre k education. And 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.640 then when you fund pre educate education, all of those 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.880 who get access to that, it reduces the likelihood that 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:14.120 they will go into be you know, uh, victim of 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.920 the school to prison pipeline, be victim of the whole 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.280 car soural system. And so when we look at how 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.480 much we're spending on police, and then we look at 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.040 how much like a pre K program costs, or how 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.720 much a cost to reduce class sizes so that you know, kids, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:37.480 because they're basing how many prisons to build off of 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:38.880 third grade reading scores. 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:39.600 And so. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.480 We are continuing to divest from education, divest from my 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:51.320 community resources while we're investing into this militarized, occupying police force. 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.960 So what is that going to create. It's going to 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.360 create like a war. We don't have money for you know, education, 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:58.720 but we have money for guns. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.360 Is that the type of that we want to live in. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.680 That is not a society that we are safer, That's 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.560 not a society where you know, it's a society that 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.440 we're we're all treated like criminals. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:12.760 Okay, very good. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:18.760 Now there's a lot of activism. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.720 On the streets, and you know, these are some messages 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.200 that I've I've heard you speak about before, and I've 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.720 heard them echoed in other organizations that work alongside Black 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:34.800 Lives Matter, But Black Lives Matter, the official Black Lives Matter, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.680 of course, as a as a statement. You know, that's 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.280 a statement that many people can get by, get behind, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.920 not everyone, because obviously there's the all Lives matter cry 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.920 from some folks, and that also is a true statement 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.680 in and of itself. But obviously the reason for Black 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.480 Lives Matter, for those of us that understand it, is 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.040 kind of built into the. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.160 Narrative already of our lives. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.320 Even though I know the answer, I have to ask 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:10.560 the question, does black lives matter condone anarchy and unlawful unlawfulness? 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.400 So one, uh, there's Black Lives Matter like the National 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.480 whom I cannot speak for, and then Black Lives Matter 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:23.760 Phoenix Metro, you know, and we are not an official 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.200 chapter of Black Lives Matter National. They haven't been accepting 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:33.399 chapters for uh for five years now. But that being said, uh, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.520 you know, so I E would feel more comfortable to 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.520 speaking to Black Lives Matter Phoenix, but our lie our 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.960 values are aligned with Black Lives Matter National, So there 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:47.879 isn't really much of a difference here. As far as 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:53.320 does Black Lives Matter engage in that anarchy and lawlessness, No, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.720 But as far as condemning it, we have an understanding 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.840 of it, much like MLK that is the voice of 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:05.040 the unheard, and we understand that, you know, it's the 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:10.240 social conditions that cause people to riot. We understand that, 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:18.320 you know that people engage in that way when they've 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.679 had everything taken from them. And so again, when we 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.720 think about how to make our community safer, if these 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.280 people had something to lose, that wouldn't have happened. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:28.760 In the first place. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.359 And so, you know, it's the social conditions that create 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:37.320 the riots. It's being disenfranchised for so long, it's having 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:42.320 your community disinvested, everything from the redlining to the disinvestment 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.359 of public transportation, to the disinvestment of even down to 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.399 the side rocks and trees, which we don't have in 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.399 black and brown neighborhoods. We see that our lives don't matter. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.680 We see that, you know, our government doesn't care about us. 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.560 And for the folks who are mostly disenfranchised and have 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:04.840 nothing to lose, you know, and after the continual disrespect 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:10.560 and disregard for our lives, it causes. 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.080 The conditions for riot. And so I wouldn't. 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:19.240 I don't condone, but I don't engage in that way. However, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.520 I think it's important to recognize the way to stop 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:27.320 riots is not bringing martial law like they've been doing. 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.240 It's not to bring in federal police like they did 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:30.880 in Portland. 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.480 What did that do? It just made people more angry 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:35.480 because you're adding fuel to the fire. 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.680 The way to stop the riots is to stop unhearing 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.720 the people. Right, if a riot's voice of the unheard. 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.320 If you listen to the people, what the people are saying, 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.040 and actually show that our lives matter and actually address 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.800 these things, then there won't be rights. But as long 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.080 as you treat people like their lives don't matter, you 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.240 disinvest in their community, you disregard their life, you're creating 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.679 the conditions of the riot. So I don't actually blame 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:08.160 the you know, individual rioters. I blame the societal conditions 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.800 that allowed for that to happen in the first place. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.760 And if we look on a systemic level, if we 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.600 want to change this, the way that we do it 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.440 is change the societal conditions to prevent rioting. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.080 So it's funny that you mentioned that I was in. 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:32.280 Portland maybe two weeks ago, and I was at they 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.080 call it ground zero there where all the the riots 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.720 are happening. And I think it's very important. This conversation 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.200 is important for another reason because a lot of folks, 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.280 I think that if you haven't participated in a riot 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:49.920 or really in a protest, which I have. I haven't 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.080 been in a riot, you know, but I have been 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:53.800 to a lot of the protests. So what you have 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:58.119 is a lot of angry people who, you know, like 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.600 you said, Okay, said it best, they don't feel heard, 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.560 you know, They're they're making very simple demands. I think 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.680 that there's a lot of compromise built into the fact 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.440 that we're protesting and not rioting already. We just want 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.160 to be hurt. So these are people who are willing 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.320 to have a conversation, and they've taken to the streets, 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.560 and they haven't. You know, they're not necessarily anarchists. Of course, 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.200 there might be individuals in the crowd, but for the 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.160 most part, the group is trying to move a social 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:27.919 agenda forward ive forward. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:28.240 Sorry. 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:35.320 And when I was in Oregon or in Portland, you 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.240 understand that the people out there, they're not opportunistic. They're 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:43.119 not trying to break in and steal stuff necessarily. That's 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:49.200 a function of, you know, people being at their wits end, 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.240 and one person does something and then there's a way 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.520 for people to vent their frustration or otherwise receive some 0:21:54.680 --> 0:22:01.440 form of recompense in that moment. And what I saw 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:03.960 when I was there is people just frustrated. They're just 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.320 setting fires, not to gain anything, but just because it 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.480 will get attention. And if we do this, then you 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.359 have to hear us now. And that's really what I 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:15.160 got a sense of when I was out there. Same 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:17.239 in DC, there wasn't a lot of that going on, 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:19.200 but just talking to the folks in DC. I was 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.520 in DC maybe three weeks ago, and the same thing 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.080 happened out there. You know, when I was talking to 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.600 people and they were discussing how they were dealing with 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:33.280 counter protesters and things like that, and I do want 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:38.440 to share a quick story. Actually know, I'll wait, I'll 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.960 share the story in just a bit. Before we get there, 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:48.320 let's talk about Marxism for the folks that don't know, 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:53.399 is Black Lives Matter? Does Black Lives Matter consider itself 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:54.520 a Marxist organization? 0:22:55.720 --> 0:23:00.800 Black Lives Motternational has said that, one of the co 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.920 founders has said that they're a Marxist organization. But I 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:09.879 also think it's important what what people understand what that means. 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.000 I think that since the Cold War, there's this hysteria 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:18.919 when you mentioned Marxism that makes people be like, you know, 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:20.920 like like you're somehow. 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:21.920 Like like it's a scary word. 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.359 Yeah, and so on socialism exactly. 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.520 And so you know, with what they mean when they 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:34.520 say there are they are Marxists is that they, you know, 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:39.360 believe in free education, they believe in free health care 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.520 for all. They do not believe in the monopoly that 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.960 we currently reside in where you know, the one percent 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.439