1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: back to work in progress friends. Today we are joined 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: by someone that I absolutely adore on screen and adore 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: even more off, a frequent guest at parties at my house, 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: and someone that I love to lean on for laughter 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: and also for spitballing how to make it through this 7 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: crazy world. Today's guest is none other than Kevin McHale. 8 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: You likely know Kevin from his incredible role as Artie 9 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: Abrams on the Fox TV series Glee. He was nominated 10 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: for a Grammy Award, three Screen Actors Guild Awards for 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Comedy Series, and 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: two Teen Choice Awards for his role as Arty on Glee. 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: He has hosted comedy Panels, podcasts, Been on the Office, 14 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: and American Horror Story. As a singer, Kevin released his 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: debut EP in twenty nineteen, and in addition to performing, 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: he directs music videos for other incredible artists. Growing up 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: in Texas's Tornado Alley, Kevin has a whole lot to 18 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: say about the Weather Service, how he grew up wanting 19 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: to be a weatherman, and why that curiosity mixed with 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: the wild circus of our day jobs led him into 21 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: really really incredible political activism for equity. I am so 22 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: excited to have a conversation that really covers all of 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: this and more with my dear friend Kevin Enjoy. 24 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: Hi, this feels really sad, it feels very fun. 25 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: Well, I'm very excited that you're here. 26 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 27 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: One of the things I actually really like to do 28 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: with people when they come on the show and they're 29 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: not like one of my friends, so I just want 30 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: to shoot the show with I actually like people to 31 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: take me all the way back because in this world 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: of having these crazy jobs we have, people often meet 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: you on a show, they meet you as an adult. 34 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: They get to know you when you've had some modicum 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: of success, right, And I'm always really curious if from 36 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: you know, inside of yourself today, like Kevin artist, performer 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: host multi hyphenet, if you look back at your little 38 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: boy self at like eight or nine years old, do 39 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: you see the through line of how you wound up 40 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: here or was this completely crazy, unexpected and your eight 41 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: year old self would never believe what you do for 42 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: a living. 43 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: Fully both yes, Because of my interests from when I 44 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: came out of the womb. It makes sense, okay, but 45 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: you know how it is of the fact that anybody 46 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 2: can find success and what they love to do, yeah, 47 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: is mind boggling. Like the amount of like you can 48 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: be prepared, you can have done all the things you 49 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: needed to do to put yourself in the right position, 50 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: but it still takes a little sprinkling of magical timing 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: and luck. And the fact that that has happened to 52 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 2: me a couple of times is mind boggling. My parents 53 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: have been visiting the past week, so there's been a 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: lot of that, like nostalgia looking back. You know, we 55 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: used to come out here for acting in la for 56 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: acting things, and so there's been a lot of intro 57 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: you know, introspective reflection, okay, this past week. So it's 58 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: an apropos question. 59 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: Okay, So so pay a little bit of a picture 60 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: for me, you know, little little boy version of you. 61 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: Where's he growing up? What's he intwo? What's what's the 62 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: vibe in the house. 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: The quickest picture to paint is I was but nine 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: years old when Titanic came out, belting out my heart 65 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: will go on. Oh, and just like I had to, 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: you know, like I just had to do it. 67 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, there was no way you were going 68 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: to survive if you didn't. 69 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: No, or I would be in front of the TV 70 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: learning the dancer teenes to and sync and like Britney 71 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: spears Michael Jackson, wow, or I would I don't know 72 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: if you remember. There was this like cheap video camera, 73 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: like home video camera that because like the real ones 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 2: were expensive and we didn't have it like that, but 75 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: there were like one Christmas, some like toy video camera 76 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: came out and I got it, and I used to 77 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: film myself doing playing Good Morning America. And so I 78 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: would be a news anchor and I would film myself 79 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: doing the weather, which is really what I wanted to do. 80 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: You wanted to be the weather man? 81 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: Oh desperately, yes. 82 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: Wait, why tell me everything. 83 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: I grew up in Tornado Alley, and I was deathly 84 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: afraid of tornadoes, and so I would sit in front 85 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: of the weather channel every day all day, and so 86 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: I learned everything about the weather. I would read books 87 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: on the weather because I was so scared that I 88 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: don't know how that maybe I felt if I knew 89 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: about it, I could see the signs that a tornado 90 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: was forming or something. And then get everybody into a 91 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: safe room or something. 92 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: So like if you became an expert at the thing 93 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: you were afraid of, maybe you'd see it coming before 94 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: everyone else. 95 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 2: Yes, which did happen? Like we would go to Florida 96 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: for vacation the summers and Tampa where we would lose, 97 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 2: like the lightning capital of the world. So I would 98 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: see the storms coming in, but we all have to 99 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: get inside now. Just real fun. I was a really 100 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: fun kid. 101 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, uplifting, Yeah, just. 102 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: Paranoid all the time. But yeah, so I used to 103 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: film myself. I would make maps of the United States. 104 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: I would make the cold front things and the oh. 105 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, wait have you seen the weatherman? And now of 106 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: course that I want to tell you this on a 107 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: show with all of these listeners. I can't think of 108 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: his name. I DM his videos to people all the time. 109 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: He he'll take a poll and ask people on Instagram 110 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: what song he should work the lyrics into in his 111 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: next weather report. Yes, and he does everything from like 112 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: the Yin Yang Twins. 113 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: He is so funny, it's brilliant. Like that's who I 114 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: would want to be if I if I was a weatherman, 115 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: That's who I'd want to be. 116 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it's not too late. No, maybe I'll be 117 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: a mayor and maybe you'll be a weatherman. 118 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 2: Great, can I be like secretary of weather? Yes, could 119 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: be in the cabinet. 120 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. If Project twenty twenty five goes through, 121 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 1: there won't be a national weather service anymore, which feels insane, 122 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: given that we do live in a country with a 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: tornado alley and you know, coasts that get pounded by hurricanes. 124 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: But should we beat rising fascism and actually preserve American democracy, 125 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: then the agencies that you know, do the weather report 126 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: will continue to exist, and then I absolutely think you 127 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: should be in charge of one of them. 128 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: What a crazy, crazy thing that's happening. Like it's like. 129 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: It's almost like somewhere there was a rip in the 130 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: matrix and the writers of Parks and Rick got made 131 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: in charge of writing scandal, well or more than West 132 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: Wing perhaps, and everything is it's hard to be it's 133 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: hard to believe that these things are to be believed, 134 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: and yet it's happening. And not only is it happening, 135 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: they've published the nine hundred page fascist manifesto for us 136 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: to read. And then they say no, no, that's not 137 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: real and you're like, no, but you published it. It's gaslighting. 138 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: Oh but that's what they do. Well, yes, I mean 139 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: they're very good at it, and that's why when you'd 140 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: be like, well, no, Trump tanked the border build, but 141 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: no he didn't gas lighting one to. 142 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: One Yeah yeah, yeah. 143 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: I mean they even made it so readily available online. 144 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: There's tabs you can click on to like go to 145 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: the thing, like it's great, like, oh, here's their horrific 146 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: plan to ruin democracy. 147 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's the plan to undo democracy. Here's the plan 148 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: to completely undo healthcare and medicaid. What's that senior citizens? 149 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: They don't need anything? Let them die, Like that's literally 150 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: what they're saying. And then they're they're telling us that 151 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: we've mis heard or misread, and again I just keep thinking, no, 152 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: this is on your your platform. 153 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: All you have to do is copy and paste those 154 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: sentences and spit them back to them and like no, like, no, no, 155 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: I didn't do anything. I'm simply just showing you what 156 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: you have published. I do feel like, I know we're 157 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: getting off topic, but it feels like it's starting to 158 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: land on deaf years a bit, and I'm very happy 159 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: in a good way. I think a way in which 160 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: we know this shtick, we're over it, and not just 161 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: like the people who will always vote Democrat. I think 162 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: there's a good portion in the middle there that is 163 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: just like the same show. 164 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting. I was talking to my 165 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: parents about this because I asked them a lot of 166 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: questions about their generation. You know, they're in their seventies, 167 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: and my dad is like, yeah, even my friends who 168 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: I didn't agree with, who were right leaning forty years ago, 169 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: are now like, Okay, we've lost the plot. This is 170 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: not We're not having a difference of opinion about budget. 171 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: We're not doing that. We're literally you've got a candidate 172 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: who is copying close to verbatim quotes from Adolf Hitler 173 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: talking about wanting America to be an oligarchy and then 174 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: everyone else to be peasants who die at a lot 175 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: arming rates. And it's like, I don't care if you 176 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: don't think medicare for all is an option. I could 177 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: show you where you're wrong, because it's math. Math is 178 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: actually very unemotional. It's it would be cheaper for us 179 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: to keep people healthy than to treat all the sick 180 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: people in our country. But we're not even debating that. 181 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: We're literally talking about like Nazis or the right to vote. 182 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: It's like, full, it's so crazy that I think it's 183 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: hard for people who quote unquote don't do politics to 184 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: ignore at this point. 185 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: Yes, And I also think for the people who are like, 186 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 2: oh no, he's not actually going to do those things. 187 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: So those people aren't I think at this point you're 188 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: in the minority if you don't believe them or don't 189 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: take them met their word, because they're showing you exactly 190 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: what And like, I mean to your point too about 191 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: there was a great respect for progress intentionally was slow. 192 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: You take two steps forward one step back every switch 193 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: of a presidency, and that's fine. You bring the people 194 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: along with you. You have a consensus, there's consensus building. 195 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: I like the way you phrase that. 196 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: It's not fast and it's not how we as fast 197 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: as we want it to be ever, but generally we 198 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: move in a consistent, driven direction. Sure, fine, And like 199 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: what you said now and like old school Republicans, it's like, 200 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: well we're not. We're not out nowhere near to having 201 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: those questions and debates. Debate is good, having a disagreement 202 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 2: is good if it's filled with substance, yeah, and filled 203 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: with like actually, like you feel ethically and morally obligated 204 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: to defend this position and back it up with X, 205 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: Y and Z. Now we're not doing that. Now we're 206 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: just attacking feelings and opinions and well, well. 207 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: And now we're literally just paying politicians to do things 208 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: they know will hurt people, like Clarence Thomas taking four 209 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: million dollars worth of bribes to then eviscerate people's rights 210 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court. It's like, what they're just doing 211 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: crime in public? Now, this is so crazy. 212 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: And there's even more that gets uncovered. It's like, okay, 213 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: what else? What else is there? Though? 214 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: Okay, so I have a question for you because I 215 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: get this a lot, and we did just say we 216 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: sort of went off topic. We went from childhood to election. 217 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: But you know, we're stressed. Our rights are on the 218 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: chopping block. Alsum. 219 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 2: So you know, and I like see each other mostly 220 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: at these like political things. 221 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're always together in DC, never in LA. 222 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: And we're based on the neighbors, which. 223 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: Is and like nobody else, we're like the two people 224 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: I feel like from LA who were just constantly in 225 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: DC and everyone's like, why are you here. 226 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: And You're like, because we have work to do. So 227 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: this was going to be my question because a lot 228 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: of people believe the crazy lie that like entertainers are 229 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: all privileged. They don't understand that most people in our 230 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: industry are circus performers living paycheck to paycheck. Yes, And 231 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: when people will say to me like, oh, well, what 232 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: do you know, like you what do you know about 233 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, paying your fair share? And I'm like, oh, 234 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: you mean the entire democratic socialism of Hollywood, which means 235 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: everybody makes a person of the money I make, Like 236 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: I don't make my own money. Everybody on my team 237 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: gets paid first, and I'm kind of proud of that, 238 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: but like, I have to work. I have to make 239 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: ten x to make even money with everyone on my team. 240 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: Like that's how it is. So that's part of why 241 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: we work so hard. And when people are like, what 242 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: do you know about unions or this or that, I'm like, well, 243 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: the only reason I have healthcare is because I'm in 244 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: a union. Like I'm literally in this circus performer union 245 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: sag afterra and it is the only reason I get 246 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: to go to the doctor or the dentist. I'm very 247 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: grateful for it. 248 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: And it's great health insurance, it's great health. 249 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: I mean it used to be better. But we're we're working, 250 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: we're working our way back. But I think people don't 251 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: understand what a team sport, our line of work is, 252 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: and cause I think, you know, they see the two 253 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: actors in a scene and they don't know there's two 254 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: hundred people on set making that scene happen. They see 255 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: you go to the Golden Globes, which everybody thinks is 256 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: our life, and it's actually like this ridiculous lie, and 257 00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: none of us know what we're doing there, and we're 258 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: wearing all borrowed clothes and borrowed jewelry and we're terrified 259 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,599 Speaker 1: to lose it because god forbid, we got mugged. We 260 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: could never pay the brand back for the thing that 261 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: was stolen from us. Like it's this wild sort of thing, 262 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I guess it would be cool if 263 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: people could see that. Most of the time we're hanging 264 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: out on sets that don't have great climate control because 265 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: the climate control messes up to microphones. And it's like 266 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: it's the Actors' Union, the construction Union, the transportation union, 267 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: like it's just us and a bunch of crew humans. Yes, 268 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: And so I think because we can only move forward 269 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: if we're part of a team. We believe in the 270 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: team spirit of America Hoully. And that's sort of the 271 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: only way I know how to explain it to people. 272 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: Is that why you feel politically passionate? Or was there 273 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: like a moment that made you go, oh, I need 274 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: to know more about this. 275 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: You know, there was a moment re me working more 276 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: regularly where Prop eight, the whole Prop eight thing was happening, 277 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: And it was around the time I was going to 278 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: be able to vote for the first time. So I 279 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: was seventeen or eighteen, and I remember there were protests 280 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: on the street corner outside my apartment complex and secretly 281 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: like closeted gay kid and me and my friends were like, 282 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: let's go check it out. And then like one of 283 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: my straight best friends like got a sign. He's like, 284 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: we have to go protest. This is crazy, And so 285 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: we went and protested, and it was like that small act. 286 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: I always watched the news, clearly love of the Water Channel. 287 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: I was engaged in, you know, those types of things, 288 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: And I think because it directly impacted me Yeah, Unfortunately 289 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have to take something like that, But I 290 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: think that was my sort of gateway into it where 291 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: I saw for the first time people It wasn't politicians talking, 292 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: It was just people in my neighborhood, in my community 293 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: with opposing visions for what they wanted to happen in 294 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: the state. And that coupled with absolutely when you're on 295 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: a set, you are dealing with people from all walks 296 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: of life. It is a very unglamorous job. Yeah, and 297 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: I think you're right. People see the movie stars of 298 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: the big TV stars, and that's what you associate with it, 299 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: But the actual work of it, the job of it 300 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: is very humbling in the sense of, yeah, we're getting 301 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: paid more than almost everybody in the crew, but they're 302 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: there before us, they're there after us. They usually have 303 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: families who are waiting on them, and they don't get 304 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 2: to spend that much time with their kids. Like on Glee, 305 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: we had fifteen sixteen hour days regularly. Yeah, and so 306 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: it's a way too. It was always a way to 307 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: really quickly check any amount of privilege you had walking 308 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: into that situation, because like for Glee, it was also 309 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: the first time I was making any sort of money, 310 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: and it felt very strange and it almost felt wrong 311 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: in a way. And the amount of respect you have 312 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: for people doing the gaffers and the sound and the 313 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: that we know nothing about, right, and like, this show 314 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: doesn't get made without hundreds of people, like you said, 315 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: showing up every single day. And I think because I 316 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: was lucky. I think because the type of show that 317 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: we were on and when it represented, the crew was 318 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 2: affected by that. It felt like it was a full 319 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: team effort. We're doing this really positive thing for society, 320 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: and it never felt like it was in us and 321 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: them thing. It's how I learned about unions. It's how 322 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: I learned the importance of unions and respecting all those 323 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 2: different types of viewpoints. Having people come and work on 324 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: the show that was a really super gay show, and 325 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 2: watching people Nobody talked about their personal beliefs, but you could, 326 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: you know, sort of sense things changing and how people 327 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: were into it and like, oh, my kids really like this. 328 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: And so it was a really nice way to sort 329 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: of get a slice of life, a slice of different 330 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: communities and demographics that you wouldn't normally someone that was 331 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: twenty years old wouldn't normally be interacting with on a 332 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: daily basis for that many hours. And so yeah, I 333 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: feel like a more well informed citizen because of that, 334 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 2: and because every day you're up against other people who 335 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: are unlike you. And I think that is and that 336 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 2: is the old way that you know, I think politics 337 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: used to work where you get in rooms with people. 338 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 2: If you only surround yourself with people who have the 339 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 2: exact same opinions and like experience of you as you, 340 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: you're not going to get anywhere because it's it's just 341 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: all you're in a vacuum and everyone's agreeing, and there's 342 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 2: you don't have to defend your position, and being challenged 343 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: and seeing you know, things from other people's perspective is 344 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 2: what we do as actors and as citizens. I think 345 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: that's what you have to do to be well informed 346 00:18:58,920 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: and well engaged. 347 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: I agree. And now a word from our sponsors, who 348 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: make this show possible. Well, and I think it's really 349 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: important to have a willingness to noodle on something, to 350 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: really get into the nitty gritty of it, and in art, 351 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, in our line of work, that's so important. 352 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: You have to sit with your coworkers and figure out, 353 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: like what you're doing to make the thing on the 354 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: page be more than just typeface. And then for some reason, 355 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: we've gotten to this point where people don't really want 356 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: to they don't want to noodle on things, and they 357 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: don't want to accept reality. It's like, part of the 358 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: reason I've become such a policy nerd and I get 359 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: so deep in the data is because math is unemotional. 360 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: It's just addition and subtraction, et cetera, et cetera. Like 361 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: and when people just say, well, that's just not true, 362 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: or you know, this politician hasn't done anything. I literally 363 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: look at the pages and pages and pages of this 364 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: person's record. I'm not impressed by that, and I'm like, what. 365 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 2: I had this conversation with somebody the other day. It 366 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: was fascinating because we can get stuck in our you know, 367 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: people who agree with me or ourselves. And I was 368 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: at a dinner and there were these like two young 369 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 2: guys in the early twenties, and politics came up, and 370 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 2: I knew how like the friends who invited me to 371 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: dinner felt. I knew we were all on the same page. 372 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: And this kid was talking about it was after the 373 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: assassination attempt of Trump, and he was like all of 374 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 2: a sudden, out of nowhere, just very gung ho, loud 375 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 2: and boisterous, but not saying anything about like pro Trump stuff, 376 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 2: and I felt I was like, this is great. I 377 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 2: want to hear what other people are saying and thinking. 378 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: And then when we I was like, okay, well that's 379 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: not true, and here's why you know what you just said. 380 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: It's like, well, I'd love to see those numbers. I'm like, 381 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 2: you can, you absolutely, he can. Those are all publicly available. Yeah, 382 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 2: you can. You can pull up your phone right now 383 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: and search on Google. We can talk about inflation all day. 384 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 385 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: And he just sort of like shut down immediately. And 386 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: I was like, okay, because what I heard you say 387 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 2: was everything from a Fox News pundant like, which I get, 388 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 2: and I understand why you're saying these things, but here's 389 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: some here's some pushback for you. I like to be challenged. 390 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 2: I like someone to come at me with numbers and like, 391 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: I love, I have no problem of meeting I was wrong, 392 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: but like, give me the data, like prove it to me. 393 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: That's what's frustrating for me too. Like when we talk 394 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: about the the sort of and I don't mean this 395 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: to be rude. It's it's literally a quote from an 396 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: article I read like the brain rot being caused by 397 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: Fox News. This is a company that multiple times has 398 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: gone to court and defended themselves by saying, we are 399 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: not a news program, we're entertainment. No intelligent viewer would 400 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: believe we are the news. And I'm like, you're you're 401 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: literally going to court and making fun of your own viewers. 402 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: You're calling them stupid. But your defense for the reason 403 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: that they're quote stupid is because you're lying to them. 404 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 2: They don't care. 405 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: You are lying to these people and then riling them 406 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: up and then causing them to go in the streets 407 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: with you know, semi automatic weapons and like do the 408 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: most insane and then going, well, that wasn't our fault. 409 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: As long as the check clears. It's like, as long 410 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: as the check clears, they don't care. There's no moral 411 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 2: obligational responsibility. 412 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: Well, and what's crazy is that someone like a Tucker 413 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: Carlson will make fun of people like me and you 414 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: when he was making forty million dollars a year to 415 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: lie to people on Fox News. And I'm like, bitch, 416 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: in my entire life, I don't think I'm ever going 417 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: to see that much money. I think I would have 418 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: to win the lottery. 419 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 2: Used to make like eighty million dollars or something a 420 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 2: year from this podcast or radio show. 421 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I'm out here being like, well, if 422 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: I make a dollar, I pay my agent ten cents, 423 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,959 Speaker 1: I pay my manager ten cents, I pay my publicist 424 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: ten cents, I pay my assistant ten cents. Then I 425 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: pay my union, then I pay my taxes. If I'm lucky, 426 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: I keep twenty cents. 427 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: You're a really good friend, and you like also throw 428 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 2: really great events at your house, but probably aren't either, 429 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: so you're not. 430 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: But they're like the source of my joy. 431 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: But you know it's conf you're spending yeah, man like. 432 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: And it's just so weird. I'm like, y'all, y'all accuse 433 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: us of like not knowing how to share, and you're 434 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: just over here being robber barons. It's so weird. 435 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: It is so weird. 436 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: But I have a question to go back to the 437 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: place where we began, sort of fish about what you 438 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: were talking about on Glee, like that experience of being 439 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: on your first show having it be such an enormous hit. 440 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: I mean, from critically acclaimed to like a ratings juggernaut 441 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: to also surfacing these social conversations about outcasts and queer 442 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: kids and even disability and like all of these things 443 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: that weren't really happening before. And when you talk about 444 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: and I want to know more about this, what it 445 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: was like to see people expand perhaps as they worked 446 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: on the show, you know, in front of her behind 447 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: the camera. But the real first question about that that 448 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: I want to ask is really for you, Like what 449 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,479 Speaker 1: did that feel like for you? How old were you? 450 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: What was the audition process, Like did you know this 451 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: was going to be really special or were you like, 452 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is going to work. Is 453 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: anybody going to care about like, you know, quote unquote 454 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: outcast kids singing? Like? What was that like? 455 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 2: The My manager called me and she was like, there's 456 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: this great pilot And it was right towards the end 457 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 2: of it was right after the writer strike of seven, okay, 458 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: and so it was supposed to be a mid season replacement, okay, 459 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 2: And so it was early two thousand and eight. My 460 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 2: manager loved the script and she was like, you need 461 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 2: to read this. It's hilarious and there's music in it. 462 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 2: I didn't really think too much of the music component. Okay, 463 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 2: I was doing music at the time, I know, and 464 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: so it seemed like, oh, this is fun. But I 465 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: couldn't in my little simple brain couldn't really conceptualize how 466 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 2: it was going to be done. And so I just 467 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 2: read it like a normal script and it was really dark, 468 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: like the humor was so dark and sarcastic, and I 469 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 2: loved it and I laughed out loud. And you know, 470 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: I'll audition for anything, but it's not very often that 471 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: you get a script that you really really love. Yeah, 472 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: And it was one of those like, oh, this is 473 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: very good. Yes, I want to absolutely audition for it. 474 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: We'll see who knows, you know, you get one out 475 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: of every eight hundred auditions, whatever it is. And so 476 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I'll audition for this whatever. And 477 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: so I went an audition for it. It was me 478 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 2: and Robert Orich, the casting director, in his little office, 479 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: and it was one of those places where everybody in 480 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: the waiting room can hear. 481 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: You, oh, like. 482 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 2: Nightmare, especially because you're singing. It's already bad enough when 483 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: people can like hear you doing the scenes. 484 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, through the door, you just hear. But I love him. 485 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: Yes, it's I have. I'm like sweating out thinking about 486 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 2: it the worst. It's the worst possible setup. Yeah, But 487 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: I went in there. I did the song I sing 488 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 2: Let It Be by the Beatles. I didn't nail it 489 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: because I thought he would just need a verse and 490 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 2: a chorus, and so I only really practiced that. And 491 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 2: then I got past the chorus and he's like, keep going, 492 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 2: I don't know any more. 493 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: Words, like can I go back to the beginning, And I. 494 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 2: Think I just started like repeating the first verse and 495 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: then eventually stopped and laughed and then did the scene 496 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: and he's like, Okay, when you come back, can you 497 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 2: prepare two songs? And the scenes are great. I was like, oh, 498 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 2: I guess I'm coming back. And then I had to 499 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 2: for Ryan Murphy and the entire team. It went from 500 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 2: being from one guy to like fifteen people yeah, and 501 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 2: Ryan's office on Paramount. And then I found out a 502 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: couple days later that they wanted me to test for it. 503 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: I had never tested for anything before. Oh my gosh, 504 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 2: and so I then had to wait six weeks for 505 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: them too. Yes, I found out I was testing and like, well, 506 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 2: we have to find other people. 507 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Because they needed you to test with 508 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: other actors for other roles. 509 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: And they didn't have anybody to test yet for any 510 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 2: of the other roles either, So I think they had secretly, 511 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: I think they had cast Leah, and I think they 512 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: had possibly cast Matthew Morrison. Okay, and I maybe Jane 513 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 2: was in the picture being talked about at some point. 514 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 515 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 2: But any of the kids besides Leah they didn't have, 516 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: so I had to wait and didn't. 517 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: Am I crazy because time is so bendy since the pandemic. Also, 518 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: I've learned that people with ADHD have time blindness. So 519 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: maybe it's not the pandemic. Maybe it's just my brain. 520 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: But what I feel like I remember because I remember 521 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: when she did Spring Awakening and like it was so 522 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: I mean, just like this revelatory show. And I feel 523 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: like Spring Awakening led to her getting cast on Glee, right. 524 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: Yes, because I mean that voice like duh insane? 525 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: Okay, she. 526 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 2: I think she was still in Spring Awakening. Oh my gosh, 527 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: So I think Ryan had seen her. Jenna was also 528 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: in Spring Awakening. 529 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Oh my god. 530 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, So like they were fully pulling from. 531 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, they were pulling Broadway kids left, Yes. 532 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: Okay, which me I went and tested against. My first 533 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: test was against nobody. They had taped people in New 534 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: York and then said so. Then two days later they 535 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 2: flew in a Broadway guy from New York and I 536 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: tested against him. And when I found out he was 537 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: on Broader and were texting my like manager and my sister. Yeah, 538 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, this is a good run. Like I 539 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 2: had two tests. I've never been called back four times 540 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: for something like you know, oh my god, you see whatever, 541 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 2: like this is a good experience. Pretty devastating, but yeah, 542 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: and then I got it, which was wild. I was twenty. 543 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: I was going to say, because I know you were 544 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: twenty when it aired, So it was it was pretty tight. 545 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I got it in September of two thousand and eight. 546 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: We shot the pilot all of October, and then it 547 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: aired in May of two thousand and nine. May only 548 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,959 Speaker 2: so because they ended up holding it. It ended up 549 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 2: not being They liked it so much that they picked 550 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: it up for a full half season. Originally it was 551 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: going to be picked up for maybe six or seven episodes. 552 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 2: Oh wow, they gave us thirteen episodes and we're going 553 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: to hold it into the fall. But we aired the 554 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: pilot after the season finale of American Idol Smart just 555 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: to like, you guys see it and then we'll be 556 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: back in three months. But no, an answer to one 557 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: of your other questions, we did not have any idea 558 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: if it was going to be a success because there 559 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 2: was nothing really to compare it to any musical show 560 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 2: had not done well. Right, But we knew and what 561 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: we really learned from the crew because this was almost 562 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 2: all of us. It was our first show. Yeah, and 563 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: the crew who were veterans were like, this is special. 564 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: You guys should enjoy this and so and that's who 565 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 2: we are performing for. I mean, for the six seasons, 566 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: that's who we were always performing for. 567 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, how fun. 568 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: And so like they were such I mean every crew 569 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: is integral part of a set, but yeah, I feel 570 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: like there was even that extra layer of they were 571 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 2: our audience and they were really involved in those performances, 572 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: even if they were never on camera. And from the 573 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 2: pilot on, we really benefited from that and we knew 574 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: we had a great time doing it. We loved it. 575 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: We loved the humor, we loved the music. When we 576 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: saw the pilot. It was pretty overwhelming in the sense 577 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: of I think this works really well, but like, who 578 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: are we to judge? 579 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you just never know. 580 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the thing, Like how many friends did 581 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: I have who got pilots and no one ever knew 582 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: and no one ever saw them because they didn't. More 583 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: often than not, pilots didn't get picked up. 584 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors. I made this 585 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: show that I was so passionate about years ago, like 586 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: so passionate about, and I'll never forget the DP such 587 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: a baller sat me down and was like, I've never 588 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: been wrong about a show that I've dpeyed. This is 589 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: going to air, This is going to win every award. 590 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: This is one of the best scripts I've ever read. 591 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: I have had the most fun working on this and 592 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: watching all of you actors and da da da da 593 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: da da da, and it it had a political bent 594 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: to it. And this this premise of our pilot, which 595 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: was like this could never ever happen, wouldn't it be 596 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: crazy if this happened in the government essentially happened because 597 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: we had a con man get elected as the president, 598 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: and literally the network was like, it's an incredible project. 599 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: We can't we can't put this on the air. And 600 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: I was like, this, but this is my baby, this 601 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: is like, this is the love of my working life. 602 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: Like is that what's making me feel better? 603 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? And they were just like, yeah, we're not looking 604 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: to become targets for the president, so by so sorry. 605 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, this baller ass show we 606 00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: made will never see the light of day and right, 607 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: but it's like you just never you never know what's 608 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: going to be the circumstance. You never know what's going 609 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: to happen in the world. You never know if it's 610 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: going to be exactly what culture needs or something where 611 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: you've missed a window. And that's one of the things 612 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: I think was so profound about your show. I mean 613 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: talk about like parties at my house obviously, like Jenny 614 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: and I did that, you know, professionally in our off 615 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: time for a decade as roommates together, and you were 616 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: at most of them. And like Jenny was the one 617 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: who introduced me to the leak. She was like, what 618 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: do you mean you're not watching this show? And I 619 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: was like, I've heard it's really good, but like I'm 620 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: I'm making my I'm on set for sixteen eighteen hours 621 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: on my show, and she was like, I don't care. 622 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: Like Sundays we're watching, we're doing something, and we just 623 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: started binging the show. And so when you and I 624 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: became friends, I was just like are I'm so proud 625 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: of you and also like are you good? Are you 626 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: so tired? Are you okay? Like do you need a hug? 627 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: Because I knew. I was like, I know how hard 628 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: are hours are on us? And we have one basketball 629 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: day and episode and you're essentially doing a full Broadway 630 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: production every single week, Like, sir, are you taking epsom 631 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: salt bats? What are you doing for yourself? 632 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 2: But I felt like when I met you, because your 633 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: show was just so gigantic, you were all wildly famous, 634 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 2: which is a different thing than our show. 635 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't feel like that. 636 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 2: I was the exact age. I think I was the 637 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: exact demographic who grew up watching you guys, And so 638 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 2: I think I could at least feel like you were 639 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 2: on every magazine cover, like just everywhere. 640 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: I just feel like all we did was get made 641 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: fun of on the soup. But maybe that's that human thing, right, 642 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: But people compliment you and you're like it can't possibly 643 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: be true, and then people tell you you're terrible, and 644 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:52,720 Speaker 1: you're like, they must be right. 645 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's that you can't feel it when 646 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: you're inside of it. Yeah, you can to an extent, 647 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: but when you're in the beast of it, in the machine, 648 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 2: like you were off shooting, especially in another state, so 649 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 2: you're so far removed from it. We were locked on 650 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: these stages in la but like ten months out of 651 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: the year though, so we didn't have a lot of 652 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 2: public interaction. It was only really when we went on 653 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 2: tour the first few seasons, or we would go home 654 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 2: for the holidays and you would go to other states 655 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 2: and like, oh, something different, right, people are watching this. 656 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 2: This is crazy because I didn't feel like that, Like 657 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: we were just having a good time. And I'm sure 658 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 2: it was a similar experience for you, where yeah, like 659 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 2: I'm working, I've made a lot of great friends. I 660 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 2: do imagine, though, you're I imagine the dynamic. We didn't 661 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 2: all become individually, like really famous. The show became famous. 662 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 2: I feel like your guys a show and you was 663 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 2: individuals became quite famous, which I think would be an 664 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 2: additional sort of mind because everybody's young everybody's having probably 665 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 2: like the most success they had had up to that point. 666 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: It was my first show. 667 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so there's no training for that, and so 668 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: the amount that we interfaced with that, I could see 669 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 2: how it affected everybody, But I think you guys, like personally, 670 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 2: were on a different level. And yeah, I can't imagine 671 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: how hard or just the mind. 672 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: What's also weird is were we you know, our show 673 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,879 Speaker 1: premiered in the early two thousands, so it was very 674 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: much Now we understand, right like we've had the Britney 675 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: Spears documentary. We we understand the way that the press 676 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: in particular treated women. And I think what was the 677 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: most alarming about it for us is that they essentially 678 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: decided what caricature of a person we were, and then 679 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: they've tried to remit us to that for clickbait ever since. 680 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: And it's a very weird and bizarre thing to be 681 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: reduced to like a cartoon version of a human. But 682 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: I think that's true for everyone, and and society has 683 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: also shifted in so many interesting ways, Like I as 684 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: a fan of your show, and aside from being aside 685 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: from being a person who has a friendship with you, 686 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: like as a fan of watching you as a performer. 687 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: I loved your portrayal of Already. I loved him, I 688 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: loved everything that you did with it. I thought, I 689 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: just thought you were so beautiful. And I understand that 690 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: as things have shifted and we are having different kinds 691 00:37:54,040 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: of conversations about representation. You have also publicly said, I'm 692 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: an able bodied person, I shouldn't have been playing this 693 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: disabled character, and you played him so beautifully, and you 694 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: brought that experience into the forefront of culture for so 695 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 1: many people who have lived with disabilities and been kept 696 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: out of so many spaces. And I remember hearing you 697 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: first talk about it and thinking like, yeah, absolutely, And 698 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: now I'm also in this position where I feel like 699 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: it's a both and yes, of course, like they should, 700 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: casting should work harder to find people who have lived this, 701 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: and you did such a beautiful job as a storyteller 702 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: making all of us learn about stories like his. And 703 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: I would imagine because I know who you are and 704 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: we talked about this earlier, like the research you did 705 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: and the people you spent time with, I know you 706 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: carried them into set with you every single day that 707 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 1: you played Artie. So it's like I guess I bring 708 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 1: that up only to say we've shifted so much about 709 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: so many conversations and then in certain ways, I mean, 710 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: at least with media culture, I think not enough has shifted. 711 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: But how do you kind of feel about all of 712 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: it now? Has your purview expanded? Like do you have 713 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: more room for both kindness and accountability with yourself? Like 714 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: what is that like? All these years later? 715 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 2: Very well said and asked, and thank you. I love it. 716 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: I know it's really difficult. I like can't even look 717 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: at you while I'm like giving you your flowers. 718 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 2: As a friend though people I don't know if people 719 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: know though you are very supportive of all your friends, 720 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 2: and like, there's been times when I've wanted to get 721 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 2: an audition, I couldn't get an audition, and you helped 722 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 2: me before be like, Okay, if you were in a meeting, 723 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 2: what do you want to get out of it? What 724 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 2: are you trying to say? Help me formulate my plan? 725 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 2: And it works and it worked, and so you're just 726 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 2: you're very supportive of your friends, and I appreciate it, 727 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: so thank you. I completely agree with everything you said. 728 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 2: I think at the time it already was not the 729 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 2: first audition I had playing somebody in a wheelchair. Those 730 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 2: were things that just happened. And I think I was 731 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:27,760 Speaker 2: blissfully ignorant to representation in general and what that actually meant, 732 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 2: because through playing a character who was not normally seen 733 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,439 Speaker 2: on television on network television every single week, and seeing 734 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 2: how much it meant to people in chairs, especially to 735 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 2: kids in chairs, and having their parents tell me that 736 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 2: the kids and then actors who were in chairs needed 737 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 2: to see that. And yes, in an ideal world would 738 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 2: already have been played by somebody who was actually in 739 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 2: a chair. Absolutely, But I also think Glee was at 740 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 2: that time, and we always say this like it was 741 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 2: sort of that bridge. It was the end of an 742 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 2: era in the beginning of a new era, where at 743 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 2: the end of it we knew better about a lot 744 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 2: of things and culture was shifting for the better in 745 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 2: that way. Yeah, where you know, there's some things in 746 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 2: Glee that did not age well. We were sort of 747 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 2: workshopping those things, what works, what doesn't work. 748 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: Oh, there are things that I see when I rewatch 749 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: One Tree Hill and I'm like, oh my god. 750 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure. 751 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: And some of them are fights we didn't even know 752 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: to have, and some of them are fights I tried 753 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: to have and lost because you know, we have no 754 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: power as babies on a set, and good god, I'm like, 755 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: I was right, I should have fought harder on that one. 756 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: And then there's there's the things you don't see coming 757 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: and you just go, oh, there really has an age. Ye, 758 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: I can't believe nobody caught that. 759 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we we're watching season four now and 760 00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 2: we just started to deal with a trans character, and 761 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 2: every time there's like a scene that's around it, I'm like, oh, 762 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 2: how is this going to go? And I don't even 763 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 2: think I realized at the time what we were the 764 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 2: significance of that, even if it was not exactly right 765 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,720 Speaker 2: and it wasn't a lot of the time, the fact 766 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 2: that it was happening at all, and trying to figure 767 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 2: out to have that conversation amongst young people, because there's 768 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,760 Speaker 2: also a show that kids watch with their families a lot, 769 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,959 Speaker 2: so this is an introduction and an education to many 770 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 2: generations who are watching this show together. But back to 771 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 2: the arty of it all, I felt I did. I 772 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 2: felt very privileged to play it. I felt play him, 773 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 2: I felt a gigantic responsibility. It did feel weird and 774 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 2: uncomfortable for some of that because like I'm obviously not 775 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 2: in a wheelchair like this, but I got hired to 776 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 2: do a job, and that's I'm very grateful for that. 777 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 2: It's conflicting a lot of the time, but it was 778 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 2: let me just sort of do no harm, I think, 779 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 2: is sort of what I felt like. 780 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 1: They did. They hire like a specialist for you, Did 781 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: you have a movement coach, Like how did you learn 782 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: or you were responsible to go and meet folks and 783 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: chairs and do all your research and learn about, you know, 784 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: what sorts of paralysis he might have, Like that was 785 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 1: all up to you. 786 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I yeah, And so I was like, uh, 787 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 2: I guess I'll just try to go meet people. And 788 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 2: I did, like through the high school I had just 789 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 2: graduated from a year before in the community college that 790 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 2: I went to at the high school and all that. Yeah, 791 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 2: and just also just trying to be observant and trying 792 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 2: to see what life was like for somebody to chair 793 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,879 Speaker 2: in real life, right in different spaces. And I also 794 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 2: got critiques from that community. I remember at the beginning 795 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 2: of season two, I was getting fitted for a new 796 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 2: chair and the guy who was fitting me who was 797 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 2: in a chair. He corrected the way I was sitting. 798 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 2: He's like, by the way and one breath. I was 799 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 2: horrified that I had done twenty two episodes that was 800 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 2: seemingly wrong. I also was very, very grateful that he 801 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 2: felt like he could speak up yea and say that 802 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 2: to me, and he was absolutely going to be heard, 803 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,399 Speaker 2: because again I was like this, let me not do 804 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 2: this incorrectly. Thank you give me all the feedback, and 805 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 2: so any any position, you know, any argument of that 806 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 2: I shouldn't been playing the apartment. Yeah, I hear you, absolutely, 807 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 2: And now we do know better. And I think now 808 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 2: that characters like that have been seen then also creator, showrunners, creators, writers, 809 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 2: casting directors now know to look for that now, and 810 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 2: people in chairs know that they can be cast in something, 811 00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 2: and I think that has to we have to challenge 812 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 2: it from sides. 813 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really a beautiful way to put it. 814 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 2: When those opportunities come up, you just yeah, like you said, 815 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 2: you sued to work a little harder to find the 816 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 2: right people for the gig. 817 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. The thing 818 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: that you said earlier I really love is remembering that 819 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: progress like getting farther down the road does always require 820 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: a bridge. Somebody has to help build the bridge from 821 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: the way we think we've always done it to what's 822 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: possible on the other side of the river. And what 823 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: a cool thing that, you know, in this timeline of 824 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 1: culture and storytelling, you helped to do that and really 825 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: did help to bring a conversation about representation and disability 826 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: into the forefront because Glee became this I mean juggernaut, 827 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: Like what a huge show. The awards and the stories 828 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: and things, and I mean what was amazing and what 829 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: was dramatic? And you know what, I think any show 830 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: that lasts for as long as ours did, like there's 831 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: always rumors of drama and YadA YadA, and it's like 832 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 1: half of it's a bullshit and half it's worse than 833 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: anyone ever knows. 834 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 2: The stuff that doesn't get out as always it's the 835 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 2: craziest part. Yeah, Like you made up this thing. We 836 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 2: used to like bring like tabloids into the choir room 837 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 2: and just read them out loud for everyone and we 838 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 2: all laugh because none of it was ever ever true. 839 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 2: And I will say, like we were also it's family, 840 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 2: so like if there is a disagreement or sort of infighting. 841 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 2: We can talk about it, yeah, but if anybody else 842 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 2: says it, oh, it's very defensive of it. Because there 843 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 2: was one time, I think there was like one article 844 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 2: that was a little too close. Yeah, and we're like, 845 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 2: first of all, who said that, Like who, Like, we 846 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 2: can handle this internally. This is nobody's business because it's 847 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 2: an it sounds disproportionately like like a big deal. When 848 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 2: other people hear about it, like you said, they try 849 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 2: to cast you in these caricatures of what they think 850 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 2: you are. Yes, and it's like that's obviously not how 851 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 2: life works, that's no. And so yeah, there was a 852 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 2: moment where then we all, even if we had a disagreement, 853 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:23,280 Speaker 2: we all band it together to be like who's them, all, Yeah, 854 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 2: we don't do this. 855 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 1: This is we handle our sh in the family. Thank you. 856 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Like we can have disagreements, that's fine, that's 857 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 2: what humans do, and we come back and we're all 858 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 2: family at the end of the day. And I think 859 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 2: that's where a lot of those probably in a lot 860 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 2: of sets, it gets blown out of proportion and misconstrued 861 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 2: because yeah, you just hear one side of it, but 862 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 2: most of the time. It was all fun and it's 863 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:46,839 Speaker 2: also just. 864 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: So silly because it's like, listen, humans are human. They 865 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: have conflict, they have drama, they fall in love, they 866 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: split up. People get their feelings hurt, sometimes over real things, 867 00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 1: sometimes over nothing. You know, you have to have growing 868 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: pains with people, and I think they forget. Like what 869 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: I always say about a set is it sort of 870 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: like an arranged marriage. You don't know any of these 871 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,160 Speaker 1: people and then one day you show up and you're 872 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: just married. You spend eighteen hours a day together and 873 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: you have to learn people's personalities, quirks, how to communicate. 874 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 1: Everyone has different communication styles, everyone has different backgrounds. Like 875 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,719 Speaker 1: it's a really wild thing to have to do and 876 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: then also shoot ten pages of dialogue a day, Like 877 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,359 Speaker 1: it's crazy, but. 878 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 2: We it's a miracle. If it works. 879 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: It's a miracle. If it works. Was it weird for 880 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: you or relieving for you when it was time to 881 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: wrap and move on. Were you like, oh, I'm so 882 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 1: ready to get out of here, or were you like, wait, 883 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 1: what do you mean we're not coming back to work 884 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,319 Speaker 1: on Monday? Or a little bit of both. 885 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 2: I think it was a little bit of both, but 886 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 2: mostly wait, no, let's not stop this. I think I 887 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,839 Speaker 2: because the magic of showing up to Paramount to work. 888 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 2: There was so little turnover in our crewe that it was, 889 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 2: for the most part, the same group of people for 890 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 2: six years. Well we shot it for seven years, but 891 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 2: it was six seasons. Yeah, And so that part was 892 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 2: like the really sad part because every time you got 893 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 2: picked up for another season and you're going to come back, 894 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I get to drive through these gates. 895 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 2: It's such a beautiful lot. It was like romanticizing the 896 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 2: whole Hollywood thing of it all, and you know, like 897 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,799 Speaker 2: we got to sing and dance and we felt like 898 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 2: clowns and like this is not serious and we're entertaining people. 899 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 2: And the show turned into that thing where it was 900 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,360 Speaker 2: representing a lot of different people who weren't normally represented, 901 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,759 Speaker 2: and that felt good and it just checked off a 902 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 2: lot of boxes that don't normally get simultaneously checked off 903 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 2: when you get a job like that. The other part 904 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,320 Speaker 2: of it was it did feel like it was time 905 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,800 Speaker 2: to just put it to bed. I think after Corey 906 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 2: passed it was the show never really recovered, I think internally, 907 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 2: and then I think creatively. I don't even know how 908 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,600 Speaker 2: the writer the writers had to go into the writer's 909 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,960 Speaker 2: room and then start writing immediately. How do you how 910 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 2: do you do that? 911 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:18,399 Speaker 1: I don't. 912 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 2: I don't know how they did that, but I just think, 913 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 2: you know, it's a it's a different it's weird going 914 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,840 Speaker 2: to work after that, it's weird showing up to the 915 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 2: same places. And the show just never also creatively yet recovered, 916 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,399 Speaker 2: I think from that, And so it wasn't didn't feel 917 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 2: the same, It didn't feels good, it didn't like the work. 918 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,080 Speaker 2: I think everybody tried their hardest. I'm not trying to 919 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 2: share anybody, but I think it was I mean Ryan 920 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,879 Speaker 2: has said that. Ryan came on our podcast and said, yeah, 921 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 2: we probably should have just stopped it. But the same time, 922 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 2: it also felt like maybe this could be a cathartic thing. 923 00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: But I mean, how do you how do you recover 924 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: from something like that in your life, let alone having 925 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,440 Speaker 1: to do it in real time on camera with two 926 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: hundred people. That's heavy and hard. 927 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,360 Speaker 2: Very very strange as an understatement, but yeah, yeah. 928 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: But to your point, I mean, everything from the most 929 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: fantastical sort of romance of what your career can be 930 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: to seismic loss. You guys really did all of it. 931 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: You you had such a wide spectrum of experience on 932 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: your show. Did you and Jenna want to do a 933 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,399 Speaker 1: rewatch so that you could make sense of it all? 934 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 2: Like? 935 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,319 Speaker 1: How? Because because first you launched showmance and then now 936 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 1: we have and that's what you really messed which but 937 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with the artwork. Not to make a full pivot, 938 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:55,000 Speaker 1: but this is how my brain works. But what did 939 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,120 Speaker 1: you want to kind of have a space to process 940 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:02,279 Speaker 1: everything and get to to really hold on to the 941 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,880 Speaker 1: good stuff? What? What? What made you want to go 942 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: back and do this? I know, I know us girls 943 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: needed to. And there was a point where I was like, well, listen, 944 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 1: now the world knows our boss was a monster and 945 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,839 Speaker 1: a creep and he can't really do his the old 946 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,959 Speaker 1: line of like I don't know why these girls would 947 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 1: make up these stories about me, I was like, Bro, 948 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: we haven't even told people the worst of the you did. 949 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,839 Speaker 1: You should feel thankful. I hope you never crawl out 950 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 1: of the hole that hopefully you've crawled into. But we 951 00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: wanted to be able to own our own joy. We 952 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,080 Speaker 1: wanted to be able to say like that wasn't his world. 953 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,560 Speaker 1: That was our world. Like once it once it came 954 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,399 Speaker 1: to us, once the scripts were in our hands, once 955 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: we were on set with our people, like that was 956 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,840 Speaker 1: ours and when he came to town it was a bummer, 957 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: but like that was that was that's for us. We 958 00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,719 Speaker 1: wanted to throw out the trash and hold on to 959 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:59,360 Speaker 1: all like the good antiques. What what was the reason 960 00:52:59,400 --> 00:52:59,880 Speaker 1: for you. 961 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:05,480 Speaker 2: To We did not want to do it. We started 962 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,840 Speaker 2: showmans and then we just kept getting asked about Glee 963 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,600 Speaker 2: and we're like, okay, I guess we'll do a rewatch 964 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,040 Speaker 2: and we sort of half asked it. We was pre 965 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 2: and that's what you really missed. Showmance evolved into a. 966 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: It was like a special project basically. 967 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 2: Yes, and so we did it and it was fine, 968 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 2: but we were not really into it. It was and 969 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:43,560 Speaker 2: then Nia passed away and then we were just like no, no, no. 970 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,480 Speaker 2: Immediately we're like, yeah, we're not doing this anymore. 971 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: Well, and to have that happened twice, I mean, yeah. 972 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,839 Speaker 2: We're like we're done with this. We can't, we don't 973 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,319 Speaker 2: want to watch it. We just needed a break. And 974 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,839 Speaker 2: then a couple of years later, my brother in law, 975 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 2: who works for iHeart. He was like, you and general 976 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 2: should think about doing picking up the Glee watch the 977 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,840 Speaker 2: Glee Rewatch podcast again. Wasn't even saying iHeart should do it. 978 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,439 Speaker 2: He was just saying, you guys should just do it. It 979 00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 2: was great, and I was just so resistant to it. 980 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,439 Speaker 2: We're both like, I just don't. I don't think so, 981 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 2: I don't wanna. It's hard. It was hard the first 982 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,760 Speaker 2: time because it was the first time I had watched 983 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,480 Speaker 2: it since Corey and then after and I it was 984 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,240 Speaker 2: just like, we don't need to revisit this, let's let's 985 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,759 Speaker 2: just not But I don't know if something was in 986 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,680 Speaker 2: the air or Jenna and I were sort of like, 987 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:50,719 Speaker 2: let's just talk to them because iHeart then came to 988 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:55,719 Speaker 2: us and we're like, look, you guys can do this 989 00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,360 Speaker 2: however you want. We think it would be great, you know, 990 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,600 Speaker 2: for X Y and Z and something in this I 991 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:08,319 Speaker 2: don't know what it was exactly. We're like, okay, let's 992 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,040 Speaker 2: do this. I think we shifted in our minds how 993 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,799 Speaker 2: we would do it. It would be like an intentional thing. 994 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,440 Speaker 2: Let's talk to the crew, Let's talk to everybody who 995 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,360 Speaker 2: was really on it. We talked to Ryan wasn't involved 996 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,239 Speaker 2: in the first one. Ryan was like, yes, let's do it. 997 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,480 Speaker 2: I'll come on and do the first episode. Like great, 998 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 2: and he sort of spilled everything. We ended up being 999 00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:35,120 Speaker 2: two episodes, and that sort of set the precedent and 1000 00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 2: gave permission for everybody to be as open as he was. 1001 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,920 Speaker 2: Because if the head person is like the filters off 1002 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 2: and here's all the things that I think we did right, 1003 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 2: here's all the things I think we fell short on, 1004 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 2: then that permission structure changes for everybody, and I think, 1005 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,120 Speaker 2: like what you said, it was also about reclaiming the 1006 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,799 Speaker 2: narrative because that ended up being the biggest thing for 1007 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,640 Speaker 2: us was people were talking about a Glee curse and 1008 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,160 Speaker 2: people were talking about everyone hated each other. Oh the 1009 00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,280 Speaker 2: show was you know this, this and that and it. 1010 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:16,120 Speaker 2: The weird thing that happened after npassed was that we 1011 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 2: all with Ryan sort of reconnected. Everyone sort of aired 1012 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,360 Speaker 2: their grievances with him, and he took the call. He 1013 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,200 Speaker 2: called everybody for the most part and just sort of 1014 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:33,280 Speaker 2: took it because people had, you know, issues, sure, but yeah, 1015 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,920 Speaker 2: and he's a different person. He has kids, he has 1016 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,360 Speaker 2: this empire. Yeah, but he his brain is a steel trapping. 1017 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,920 Speaker 2: He does not forget anything and sort of owned up 1018 00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:48,480 Speaker 2: to the ways in which he fell short. And in 1019 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,000 Speaker 2: his defense, I also think, you know, nobody trains you 1020 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,640 Speaker 2: to go from being a writer to running a billion 1021 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 2: dollar business within a year. No, there's no way to 1022 00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,840 Speaker 2: know how to do that correctly. 1023 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:00,920 Speaker 1: And so. 1024 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,160 Speaker 2: That coupled with like, guys, this was like such a 1025 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:09,640 Speaker 2: joyful experience for us. We really did have the best time. 1026 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,080 Speaker 2: Sure there were hard times, especially towards the end, and 1027 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,880 Speaker 2: like you said, after you spend that much amount of 1028 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 2: time with people, there's going to be especially when there's 1029 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 2: you know, emotional strain and personal strain like that towards 1030 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 2: the end, where there's gonna be some shit that happens. Fine, 1031 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:29,800 Speaker 2: but for the most part, on the whole, like we 1032 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,360 Speaker 2: all had the time of our lives. And I just 1033 00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:38,160 Speaker 2: felt so passionately about changing that narrative publicly because the 1034 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,600 Speaker 2: only thing that really made me sad about when people 1035 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,720 Speaker 2: talked about the show. Criticize it all you want the storylines, 1036 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 2: blah blah blah, go for it, but the drama was 1037 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 2: bullsh and we were all obsessed with each other. We're 1038 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,400 Speaker 2: all still great friends and so and you know how 1039 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,640 Speaker 2: many times have like half the cast of Glee been 1040 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,240 Speaker 2: at your house, Like we travel in groups, and we 1041 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,280 Speaker 2: were totally come out over when we were still shooting 1042 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:04,720 Speaker 2: the show. 1043 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's exactly that thing. It's like family, 1044 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,440 Speaker 1: you said it perfectly. As you work out your ship, 1045 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,320 Speaker 1: which is inevitable because we're all a bunch of human 1046 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,040 Speaker 1: beings in spaces together. 1047 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 2: It's messy, like being. 1048 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,000 Speaker 1: A human as complicated. You can work it out in 1049 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,560 Speaker 1: your family, but the minute anyone outside your family talks 1050 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: about a family member, you're like, don't you dear? And 1051 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:34,680 Speaker 1: we absolutely had that, And I think that's also really special. 1052 00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,760 Speaker 1: I think when you love people enough not because you 1053 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,400 Speaker 1: have to, not because you're related, but because you are 1054 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,200 Speaker 1: privileged enough to go on a journey together, and you 1055 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,440 Speaker 1: love them enough to work through the hard stuff and 1056 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: come out the other end better and you get to 1057 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 1: relish in your joy. 1058 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,880 Speaker 2: Like what is cooler than that, especially because and you know, 1059 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,920 Speaker 2: it's such a specific. 1060 00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,120 Speaker 1: Experience and rare and weird. 1061 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:05,919 Speaker 2: All of those things like understatement like it is, it's 1062 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:11,800 Speaker 2: so weird, and to be able to always have those 1063 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,160 Speaker 2: people who know exactly what it felt like at that 1064 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,880 Speaker 2: exact moment in your life is invaluable and if you 1065 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,040 Speaker 2: can do whatever you can to hold on to those relationships. 1066 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,240 Speaker 2: I think it's just it's so important because it's foundational 1067 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,560 Speaker 2: to who we are and that informs anything we do 1068 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:35,000 Speaker 2: afterwards as people or professionally. Even getting to interview people 1069 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,920 Speaker 2: through the podcast, people who came on as guest stars 1070 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 2: or were on for you know, one episode or two episodes. 1071 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 2: We all still feel that deep connection with each other. 1072 00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 2: And I don't know if that's normal. And I don't 1073 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,800 Speaker 2: know if that's just because the type of show it 1074 00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:55,000 Speaker 2: was or the way it impacted people externally, but there 1075 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,200 Speaker 2: is a weird Glee bond that we all have. 1076 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: Do you have it too? 1077 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think it's something to really be proud 1078 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,040 Speaker 2: of because we all fought for it. Probably didn't even 1079 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:11,600 Speaker 2: realize we were. But again going back to how wonderful 1080 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,880 Speaker 2: crews are, it was they were a real time check 1081 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,960 Speaker 2: on how we were doing as friends and as co 1082 01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,120 Speaker 2: workers because they would say all the time that the 1083 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:28,600 Speaker 2: way you all get along is not normal, and that's 1084 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,240 Speaker 2: they're like Penny, one of the assistant camera operators, I 1085 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,520 Speaker 2: remember her saying to us, She's like I think part 1086 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,320 Speaker 2: of the magic of watching you guys on the show 1087 01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,200 Speaker 2: is that your real life chemistry is coming through. And 1088 01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 2: after she said that and we all heard that, there 1089 01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 2: was no way to not see that, and now rewatching 1090 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:49,760 Speaker 2: it too, it's. 1091 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,480 Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, yeah, do you see that? 1092 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,240 Speaker 2: Oh, our real life chemistry is filling in a lot 1093 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,040 Speaker 2: of holes. Yeah, where our reactions to people performing just 1094 01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,000 Speaker 2: the way, you know, the little glances to each other. 1095 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, I know that's real or if that's acting, 1096 01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,760 Speaker 2: but because you can't tell, I think that's sort of 1097 01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,920 Speaker 2: you know. And as the show goes on, the writers 1098 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,560 Speaker 2: start writing for us as real people. 1099 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:12,960 Speaker 1: Well, and everything gets blurry. 1100 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,240 Speaker 2: Oh, it's very blurry. We're in season foury now, and 1101 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,520 Speaker 2: it's very blurry. Santana has just turned into Naya and 1102 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:19,480 Speaker 2: I'm like, this is. 1103 01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:20,960 Speaker 1: Really what is happening? 1104 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think you know, it's all we all 1105 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,680 Speaker 2: were obsessed with each other, and I think that helped 1106 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 2: the success of the show as well. 1107 01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I 1108 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:39,680 Speaker 1: really enjoy and I think you will too. Do you 1109 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,320 Speaker 1: find I'm curious about this because you know different, it 1110 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,160 Speaker 1: wasn't on a global stage, but you know, me and 1111 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,640 Speaker 1: some of my loved ones lost someone years ago that 1112 01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 1: we loved with our entire beings, and it's a really 1113 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:59,840 Speaker 1: hard thing, I think, to navigate young life loss. And 1114 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,240 Speaker 1: one of the things I find, you know, almost a 1115 01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:09,360 Speaker 1: decade out of it, is I love talking about my 1116 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,960 Speaker 1: friend who passed away. I love when people talk about 1117 01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,120 Speaker 1: him my friends, and I love when people bring up 1118 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:23,040 Speaker 1: his name, like because we still carry him now that 1119 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,480 Speaker 1: you have Not that it ever gets easier, but I 1120 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:31,280 Speaker 1: do think distance allows you to be more capable of carrying, 1121 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, big emotional weights, Like you're talking about this 1122 01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,120 Speaker 1: thing in season four and I watch you light up 1123 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,840 Speaker 1: when you're like, oh, Santana, just is Nya Like you're laughing. Yeah, 1124 01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,120 Speaker 1: are you able to like really enjoy getting to be 1125 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,480 Speaker 1: with a piece of your friend now? 1126 01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,680 Speaker 2: And it feels like such a gift that we get 1127 01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:58,840 Speaker 2: six seasons of Corey and Naya being so talented. Yeah, 1128 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:04,000 Speaker 2: I one of them most. I mean, it's not unexpected, 1129 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,960 Speaker 2: but it was, you know, it's not planned for. Almost 1130 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,360 Speaker 2: every guest we've had on who worked on the show 1131 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:16,280 Speaker 2: has some personal story about how wonderful Corey was to them, 1132 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:22,520 Speaker 2: where it was like their specific interaction with Corey almost 1133 01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:27,920 Speaker 2: every single person, and we had no idea. When new 1134 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,040 Speaker 2: people would come onto the show, he'd take them out 1135 01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,840 Speaker 2: to dinner and talk to them, like doing these things 1136 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,240 Speaker 2: as a leader, because on the show he was a leader, 1137 01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,200 Speaker 2: but in real life I don't even think we realized 1138 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 2: what he was really doing to make people feel comfortable 1139 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,600 Speaker 2: that were in front of the camera and behind the camera. 1140 01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:49,880 Speaker 2: Our tour manager just told us how, because he would 1141 01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,280 Speaker 2: be so good with fans, he would always be late 1142 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,600 Speaker 2: to the venue to do the show, and so she 1143 01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:01,680 Speaker 2: started getting coffee with him before call time to make 1144 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:03,360 Speaker 2: sure he didn't get caught up in the fan stuff, 1145 01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,320 Speaker 2: and then for years after that continued to get coffy 1146 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:07,920 Speaker 2: with him back, you know, when we were back in 1147 01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,320 Speaker 2: LA and had this like wonderful special thing with him, 1148 01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:17,600 Speaker 2: and hearing those stories is exactly what you just said. Like, obviously, 1149 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:23,400 Speaker 2: you know, with loss, it's hard, it's heavy, it's often 1150 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:28,320 Speaker 2: very challenging to even put into words, how all complicated, 1151 01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,440 Speaker 2: how complicated that is. But hearing these wonderful positive experiences 1152 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,800 Speaker 2: about people you love and are obsessed with it has 1153 01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 2: just been such a gift. Yeah, and seeing Nia just 1154 01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,160 Speaker 2: be so good and we used to get mad that 1155 01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,320 Speaker 2: they used to write the characters so similarly to how 1156 01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,720 Speaker 2: we were in real life. But selfishly, now I'm very 1157 01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:54,280 Speaker 2: thankful for it because I don't know what happened in 1158 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,880 Speaker 2: the past couple episodes where I am now in this rewatch, 1159 01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,320 Speaker 2: But it's just it's I don't think there's any option 1160 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,840 Speaker 2: in the character, and it just reminds me of all 1161 01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,880 Speaker 2: these wonderful It reminds you too, like I could send 1162 01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,080 Speaker 2: you clips You're like, oh, yeah, I've seen NIA have 1163 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,120 Speaker 2: that conversation with our friends. Wow, And yeah. It just 1164 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:14,600 Speaker 2: it feels like a gift and I love it and 1165 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,720 Speaker 2: I love talking about it because it does feel like 1166 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:21,080 Speaker 2: something we can share. And it feels like I the 1167 01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,680 Speaker 2: biggest fans of both of them and their abilities and 1168 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,600 Speaker 2: how they were as human beings and as friends, and 1169 01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,360 Speaker 2: so anytime I can talk about them and spread that 1170 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,760 Speaker 2: because we do all get that, we get to carry 1171 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,920 Speaker 2: that and tell people about it, and so it feels 1172 01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:37,960 Speaker 2: like a privilege to be able to do that. 1173 01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,640 Speaker 1: I love that. That's really beautiful. It makes me want 1174 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,160 Speaker 1: to sob, but like in such a good way. 1175 01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a weird, always a weird set of emotions. 1176 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,960 Speaker 2: There's I mean, there's been some episodes where we've watched 1177 01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,200 Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's an episode a couple months ago. 1178 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:57,800 Speaker 2: I literally started bawling, and you took a picture of 1179 01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,960 Speaker 2: myself and sent it to I and Marco, who you know, 1180 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:04,320 Speaker 2: was here too. He just had to be in town. 1181 01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:05,800 Speaker 2: He was watching too to look over and he's like 1182 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,960 Speaker 2: hiding his face in a pillow because they did flashbacks 1183 01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,560 Speaker 2: of Corey and Naya to like the first few episodes 1184 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:17,480 Speaker 2: of Glee, and it was just like, oh, no, was 1185 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,560 Speaker 2: not prepared for this. So you know, it is tough, 1186 01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:25,400 Speaker 2: but it's it's life. We were all so young, and 1187 01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,320 Speaker 2: learning how to grieve personally is horrible and hard, and 1188 01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,560 Speaker 2: learning how to do it publicly is even harder and weirder. 1189 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:40,800 Speaker 2: But again, it's one of those universal experiences, and it's 1190 01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,400 Speaker 2: one of those experiences that we now have a vast 1191 01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:48,000 Speaker 2: network of friends to lean on, yeah, for those things, 1192 01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,800 Speaker 2: because we were all that close with each other. Wow, 1193 01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,840 Speaker 2: and you and like you've experienced that, and you also 1194 01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,000 Speaker 2: know our friends who we lost, and so it becas 1195 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:04,200 Speaker 2: I'm just this extra level of empathy and understanding of 1196 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,520 Speaker 2: the human experience and condition that we already share, and 1197 01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:13,760 Speaker 2: it's nice to know that you can sort of, you know, unfortunately, 1198 01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:18,480 Speaker 2: empathize in those ways with people, Like, Yeah, it's. 1199 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,320 Speaker 1: Like a club no one asks to be in, but 1200 01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,000 Speaker 1: thank god you have people in it with you. 1201 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1202 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,840 Speaker 1: And I would say that is true for loss, that's 1203 01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:29,080 Speaker 1: true for divorce. That's true, like no matter what anybody 1204 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,880 Speaker 1: thinks it is, they have no idea. But thank god 1205 01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,880 Speaker 1: when you've got people who who have all the ideas 1206 01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:36,960 Speaker 1: because they're in the trenches. 1207 01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,720 Speaker 2: Yes, you know, and you never know. It's also one 1208 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:41,480 Speaker 2: of those things that you never know who's going to 1209 01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,040 Speaker 2: be able to I don't like be the person to 1210 01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:49,920 Speaker 2: unlock something to understanding, Like my when Corey died, my 1211 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:55,560 Speaker 2: brother randomly said something to me about like grief where 1212 01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:59,360 Speaker 2: it's like he's like, just don't worry about how you're feeling. 1213 01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:01,680 Speaker 2: He's like, it may hit you today, it may hit 1214 01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,720 Speaker 2: you in three years. He's like, it doesn't happen on 1215 01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,640 Speaker 2: a schedule. He's like, so just allow yourself to feel 1216 01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,560 Speaker 2: however you're feeling right now, and don't judge yourself for it. Yeah, 1217 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:14,000 Speaker 2: And I never expected him to like came through this 1218 01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,720 Speaker 2: piece of Wisdom's like who is this? And I have 1219 01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:23,479 Speaker 2: gone back to that so many times and it's so 1220 01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,559 Speaker 2: useful and you just never know, and it's like like damn, yeah, 1221 01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,280 Speaker 2: this is the club I did not want to be 1222 01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:33,640 Speaker 2: a part of. But you know, I guess luckily for 1223 01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,120 Speaker 2: us there are people who are part of that club 1224 01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:37,880 Speaker 2: and can help guide us through it. 1225 01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:42,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I had this really surreal experience last summer 1226 01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,000 Speaker 1: when like a group of us was leaning on each 1227 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:50,040 Speaker 1: other in this like you know, tragic moment of dissolution, 1228 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:55,040 Speaker 1: like four friends all going through divorce at the same time, 1229 01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 1: and it's like really hard when you hit the point 1230 01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,160 Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, today's the day I'm gonna admit that, 1231 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,240 Speaker 1: like the thing in front of me is dead, like 1232 01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,880 Speaker 1: it's a kart guss, Like I can't keep trying to 1233 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,439 Speaker 1: revive it. And that was happening at the same time 1234 01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,200 Speaker 1: that two of our other best friends were pregnant with 1235 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:18,519 Speaker 1: their first babies, and there were days where we'd be like, whoa, 1236 01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:20,920 Speaker 1: let's get the divorce girl club and the first time 1237 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,280 Speaker 1: mom club together to sort of be like what's happening 1238 01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,320 Speaker 1: on your island, right, you know, And it's like it's 1239 01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,040 Speaker 1: a trip. But you need people in your life that 1240 01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,000 Speaker 1: are going through the same thing that you're going through. 1241 01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,479 Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean any of your other wonderful friends 1242 01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,200 Speaker 1: aren't capable of being there for you. It means you 1243 01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,559 Speaker 1: need a person who can go ah you two, whether 1244 01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,120 Speaker 1: it's good, bad, ugly, whatever. And I think, like, I 1245 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,840 Speaker 1: don't know, I think grief is like that on obviously 1246 01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,320 Speaker 1: one of the harder sides. I think when we talk about, 1247 01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, as you mentioned earlier, like some of the 1248 01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,599 Speaker 1: ways we bonded over our first shows, it's really fucking 1249 01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,960 Speaker 1: rare and weird to have your first show turn into 1250 01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,519 Speaker 1: like a hit show, and it was so you know, 1251 01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,599 Speaker 1: me and my castmates are like, man, we went through 1252 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,240 Speaker 1: this thing together that was so wild. But it was 1253 01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,960 Speaker 1: also so helpful for me when we became friends to 1254 01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,040 Speaker 1: be like, how are you guys doing this part? How 1255 01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,599 Speaker 1: are you navigating this? Like how are you dealing with 1256 01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,799 Speaker 1: you know, the fact that some tabloid had their story 1257 01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:23,679 Speaker 1: meeting on a Tuesday and has like made up something 1258 01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,760 Speaker 1: about your life, Like it's crazy, but it is this 1259 01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,880 Speaker 1: really special thing, and so I'm going to ask you this. 1260 01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:33,720 Speaker 1: Even though sometimes it used to drive me crazy. When 1261 01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 1: people ask this. Interestingly, the silver lining of our podcast 1262 01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,519 Speaker 1: is that it sort of changed my answer now when 1263 01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,200 Speaker 1: people are like, would you ever want to take a 1264 01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,840 Speaker 1: trip back like to Tree Hill as an actor? Now, 1265 01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, honestly, maybe I would love to see Brook 1266 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,639 Speaker 1: Davis like running the town or something that could be cool. 1267 01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,760 Speaker 1: Like from this vantage point now that you guys have 1268 01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, reclaimed it, you own it. You're having such 1269 01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,479 Speaker 1: a good time with and that's what you really missed. 1270 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,599 Speaker 1: Are you ever like i'd go back, like I could 1271 01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,160 Speaker 1: be the choir director now, like, or does it feel 1272 01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:06,960 Speaker 1: like it's done for you? 1273 01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:11,080 Speaker 2: Oh, that's complicated, That's okay. 1274 01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:12,840 Speaker 1: By the way, you can just say that if you 1275 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:14,160 Speaker 1: don't want to expand on it. 1276 01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,320 Speaker 2: I think if we didn't think too deeply about it 1277 01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,320 Speaker 2: in terms of how it would work, but. 1278 01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,120 Speaker 1: Just don't go there that'll make you crazy. 1279 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:26,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, time of my life. I think we would 1280 01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,840 Speaker 2: all have such a great time. I think all the 1281 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,280 Speaker 2: crew would come back like I think it would be 1282 01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,920 Speaker 2: because they're also in Ryan Murphy world. I think it 1283 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,040 Speaker 2: would be a great time. And absolutely, yeah, oh my god, 1284 01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:39,559 Speaker 2: I love it. 1285 01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:47,599 Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, I also not that this 1286 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:49,599 Speaker 1: relates to what you're saying. But I love that we're 1287 01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,200 Speaker 1: so far over time. I'm a third of the way 1288 01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,120 Speaker 1: through my questions for you. It's fine. I knew this 1289 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,760 Speaker 1: was going to happen, so I'm going to horseshoe us 1290 01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:03,080 Speaker 1: around to the captivism part. Because you have been doing 1291 01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,720 Speaker 1: so much good work for so long. This year you 1292 01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,040 Speaker 1: won the Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award this year. 1293 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,040 Speaker 2: How silly, that's wild. 1294 01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:16,439 Speaker 1: No, it's not silly. It's beautiful. And I get as 1295 01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:19,320 Speaker 1: a person who deals with how much or how little 1296 01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,519 Speaker 1: of your life to share, not necessarily knowing how to 1297 01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,240 Speaker 1: do it. I have had the good fortune of knowing Austin. 1298 01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,519 Speaker 1: I mean, since you guys have been together, but you 1299 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:33,160 Speaker 1: didn't really publicly address your relationship until twenty eighteen. I 1300 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,720 Speaker 1: think people were all they all got it. It's like, 1301 01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, Tobin and Press finally confirmed they've been together 1302 01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,679 Speaker 1: for eight years, in the whole world was like, yeah, 1303 01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:48,080 Speaker 1: we know, duh. But it's complicated, I think to figure out, 1304 01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,880 Speaker 1: like are you going to let people in or not? 1305 01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,160 Speaker 1: I find that the only reason I ever have is 1306 01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,360 Speaker 1: because it's been sort of done for me, and then like, 1307 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,519 Speaker 1: what am I going to do. I'm a human being. 1308 01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 1: I want to go out and like be in the world. Yeah, 1309 01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:05,519 Speaker 1: what how do you decide? You know? I know you 1310 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:07,559 Speaker 1: said when you were wanting to be the weather man 1311 01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,439 Speaker 1: in Tornado Alley, you were like a closeted little gay kid. 1312 01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,760 Speaker 1: But like, how do you decide when you want to 1313 01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:19,360 Speaker 1: do this? How How did Ariana Grande fit into the picture? 1314 01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,600 Speaker 1: Like how do you how do you say, now's my 1315 01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,160 Speaker 1: moment to go out and be visible, as the HRC 1316 01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:28,639 Speaker 1: Award says, in the world. 1317 01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,920 Speaker 2: To your point, I wanted to just It got to 1318 01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:37,040 Speaker 2: the point where I wanted to just live my life 1319 01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:41,640 Speaker 2: and if I was seen in public, not have to 1320 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:46,439 Speaker 2: explain anything. Yeah, but I was in a relationship and 1321 01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:50,559 Speaker 2: so for me it was about I felt beyond ready. 1322 01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,760 Speaker 2: You know, It's like I we can do this because 1323 01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,160 Speaker 2: I would like to be able to like talk about you. 1324 01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,880 Speaker 2: I would like to be able to just yeah, be 1325 01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,920 Speaker 2: out at a bar or a club and kiss you 1326 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,799 Speaker 2: and not have to worry about if anybody's watching and whatever. 1327 01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:08,960 Speaker 2: And so one day I was just like, are you 1328 01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:13,840 Speaker 2: cool with this? Like if I post something or say something, 1329 01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:15,600 Speaker 2: and he was like, I don't give it. I'm like 1330 01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:19,240 Speaker 2: all right, it's time. Well I didn't and I didn't 1331 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,960 Speaker 2: do it. Then there wasn't like a conscious It was 1332 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,400 Speaker 2: sort of let me just I just wanted to know 1333 01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,479 Speaker 2: that if something did happen, if it did come up, 1334 01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,240 Speaker 2: because we so we met when we worked on a 1335 01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:35,680 Speaker 2: mini series together and he impressed. For that show, he 1336 01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:41,200 Speaker 2: got asked a really sort of tasteless question by someone 1337 01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:43,839 Speaker 2: about like, so like who was hooking up with who 1338 01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,479 Speaker 2: like trying to like dig because there was a lot 1339 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,640 Speaker 2: of these young a lot of the closeted people on 1340 01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,920 Speaker 2: the show, and so like, you're only asking that question 1341 01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:54,679 Speaker 2: if you're trying to sort. 1342 01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:58,120 Speaker 1: Of out Yeah. 1343 01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:59,400 Speaker 2: And so in that moment, I knew I was going 1344 01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:03,360 Speaker 2: to have a an interview with that guy the next 1345 01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,080 Speaker 2: day or something, and so I talked with my manager 1346 01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:09,240 Speaker 2: and my agent. It was like, look, this may come up. 1347 01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,240 Speaker 2: What do you think I should do? And they were like, 1348 01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,280 Speaker 2: you say whatever you want. We would never tell you 1349 01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:15,240 Speaker 2: not to say something. 1350 01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,760 Speaker 1: I was like, oh god, this is on me, tell 1351 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:19,439 Speaker 1: me what to do. 1352 01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:23,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, But it made me face it for the first 1353 01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:25,280 Speaker 2: time because I think growing up, I just assumed that 1354 01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,240 Speaker 2: would never happen. There would never be an option. I 1355 01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:32,640 Speaker 2: would always be closeted, and I somehow, I think, romanticized 1356 01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,760 Speaker 2: it or fetishized it in a way where I was 1357 01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:36,479 Speaker 2: okay with it. 1358 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,879 Speaker 1: You find a coping mechanism wherever you find. 1359 01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,719 Speaker 2: It, yes, And I think that's and I didn't realize 1360 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:42,559 Speaker 2: it was a coping mechanism until one of the producers 1361 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,000 Speaker 2: of Glee at some point was like, I think this 1362 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,760 Speaker 2: is what you're doing. I was like, oh, no, you're 1363 01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:54,599 Speaker 2: completely right. And having been on such a joyous show 1364 01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,200 Speaker 2: about queer expression and acceptance, it was also weird that 1365 01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,960 Speaker 2: I never did it. But I think I had seen 1366 01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,519 Speaker 2: how Chris Kolfer was treated and was scared of that. 1367 01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:07,080 Speaker 2: I sort of got to live my life and in 1368 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,719 Speaker 2: private and I had a boyfriend and it was great 1369 01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,880 Speaker 2: and nobody knew and you know, so I was taking 1370 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,360 Speaker 2: advantage of I was playing a straight character. Nobody even 1371 01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:22,519 Speaker 2: questioned it. He didn't really have a choice, and I 1372 01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,920 Speaker 2: got away with it. And I think at some point, 1373 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,000 Speaker 2: being in my mid to late twenties, I was like, 1374 01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,000 Speaker 2: get like, what am I doing? Yeah, I need to 1375 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,639 Speaker 2: be able to live my life and I don't care, 1376 01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,160 Speaker 2: and I don't I'm not worried if it's going to 1377 01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:43,479 Speaker 2: take away from work opportunities, and if it is, who cares, 1378 01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,439 Speaker 2: Like I don't, I'm like, okay, yeah, so something just 1379 01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:53,479 Speaker 2: I think maybe having that success young it made me 1380 01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,880 Speaker 2: feel I know this probably sounds so stupid, but it 1381 01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,479 Speaker 2: made me feel more secure in myself in a way 1382 01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,040 Speaker 2: of being like, well, I don't need you to give 1383 01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,000 Speaker 2: me a job. Then I've had the success, and so 1384 01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,519 Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it taking away opportunities. Because that 1385 01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,439 Speaker 2: was I think really the only reason why I didn't 1386 01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:14,880 Speaker 2: say anything sooner. But then Ariana Ground I put out 1387 01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,920 Speaker 2: a new song and I just made a joke that 1388 01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,640 Speaker 2: wasn't even like my intention. I didn't think people were 1389 01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:26,600 Speaker 2: going to infer that from that tweet. Wow, All I 1390 01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:31,360 Speaker 2: said was that the song was gayer than me, you know, 1391 01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,280 Speaker 2: like i'd be a normal joke we'd make, like I 1392 01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:35,160 Speaker 2: just I thought it was funny. 1393 01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:38,360 Speaker 1: But again, that's that's you being a whole person, not 1394 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,559 Speaker 1: the sort of small percentage that the world precedes you as, 1395 01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,240 Speaker 1: which is what happens when you live a public life. 1396 01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,920 Speaker 1: Like it was so weird for me finally leaving something 1397 01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,439 Speaker 1: that like just proved to really not be good for 1398 01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:55,960 Speaker 1: me and like finding this really unexpected joy and then 1399 01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:59,680 Speaker 1: having having it be treated like fodder, where I was 1400 01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,599 Speaker 1: also like, have you guys like not been paying attention? 1401 01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,360 Speaker 1: I literally always said I would never. I don't play 1402 01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:09,600 Speaker 1: characters I don't represent, Like, how many women have you 1403 01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,479 Speaker 1: seen me hook up with? Are on camera? Like, by 1404 01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,880 Speaker 1: the way, Ryan Murphy's first ever TV show was my 1405 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,080 Speaker 1: first arc on TV in Kate Morrow was my girlfriend. 1406 01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:22,040 Speaker 2: Like, Hello, I mean there's something about your house. 1407 01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:28,560 Speaker 1: There's something gay about my house, something deeply bisexual about. 1408 01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:32,320 Speaker 2: Something deeply bisexual about your house. I don't know what 1409 01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:32,880 Speaker 2: it is. 1410 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,760 Speaker 1: Who knows? But yeah, it was so funny to me. 1411 01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,840 Speaker 1: But I also had to learn similarly to what you're saying, 1412 01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:44,520 Speaker 1: Like I almost had it in reverse where and obviously 1413 01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,120 Speaker 1: in the twenty years I've been like in these sort 1414 01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:49,799 Speaker 1: of activist spaces, I've had to learn a lot about 1415 01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,960 Speaker 1: all the internalized fill in the blanks misogyny, homophobia, whatever. 1416 01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:58,719 Speaker 1: And for me, I understand now why in my twenties, 1417 01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,479 Speaker 1: some elder gays in my life who I deeply respect, 1418 01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:04,120 Speaker 1: in a door, we're like, oh, honey, you're a girl, 1419 01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:05,880 Speaker 1: and like you can be a little fluid but girls 1420 01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,880 Speaker 1: are just more experimental, like you're not really by And 1421 01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,920 Speaker 1: I got this whole thing about like, you know, great 1422 01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:13,840 Speaker 1: that you've been going to the Pride marches since you 1423 01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,360 Speaker 1: were six, and we love you as an ally, but 1424 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,599 Speaker 1: like also the community's under enough threat and like you're 1425 01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,200 Speaker 1: a very privileged, privileged like white girl on TV. You 1426 01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,320 Speaker 1: don't really need to take up space here. And I 1427 01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:28,280 Speaker 1: was like, got it. Allyship is my jam, And eventually 1428 01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:32,800 Speaker 1: I was like I kind of think that, Like you know, 1429 01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,280 Speaker 1: when people say, if there's like smoke, there's fire, I'm like, 1430 01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,960 Speaker 1: I sort of think that, Like this many experiences and 1431 01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:42,599 Speaker 1: very real feelings in my own body tells me more 1432 01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:48,040 Speaker 1: about who I am than like anybody else. But you know, 1433 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,559 Speaker 1: the running joke for many years being like as soon 1434 01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:52,760 Speaker 1: as Dua Alipa asks me how to date, like I'm out, 1435 01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:57,840 Speaker 1: I was like, turns out not not my type. I 1436 01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,360 Speaker 1: have a very different type. And she's great. 1437 01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:04,880 Speaker 2: I love the two of you. Seeing you two together 1438 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,280 Speaker 2: makes me so happy. Also, she's the I. 1439 01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,920 Speaker 1: Mean, the best person I know. I mean, she's truly 1440 01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:12,600 Speaker 1: the best person I know. And when I want to 1441 01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,400 Speaker 1: like snap and I can feel though like Brooke Davis 1442 01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:18,680 Speaker 1: and me wanting to be outlandish. She reminds me to 1443 01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,040 Speaker 1: be like soft and gentle and kind and to take 1444 01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:24,599 Speaker 1: the high road. Like everyone thinks I'm the Michelle Obama 1445 01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,640 Speaker 1: and like she's the like wild one, and I'm like, 1446 01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,599 Speaker 1: absolutely not. I'm out of my fucking mind. And she's 1447 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,480 Speaker 1: like a sweet teddy bear. She just has tattoos. And 1448 01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:37,400 Speaker 1: people are very prejudicial with stereotypes. 1449 01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:41,680 Speaker 2: Like the first time you introduced you introduced me to her, 1450 01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,880 Speaker 2: you were I've never seen you so giddy ever, and 1451 01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:49,240 Speaker 2: like just the biggest seating grin on your face, like that. 1452 01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:52,040 Speaker 1: It feels really nice to be happy. 1453 01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,280 Speaker 2: Yes, And you were just like telling me about things, 1454 01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:57,000 Speaker 2: and I was like, I could not be happier for 1455 01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:57,439 Speaker 2: you both. 1456 01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:58,720 Speaker 1: Well, we're both obsessed with you. 1457 01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,600 Speaker 2: I I mean, anytime I see you guys, I'm like, 1458 01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,639 Speaker 2: I got to leave my friends over here, friends by. 1459 01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like doing all the things that we get 1460 01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:11,519 Speaker 1: to do together in the world. Like it's really fun 1461 01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,360 Speaker 1: for me when I see some of my favorite people, 1462 01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:16,320 Speaker 1: not just you know, at a house party or friendsgiving, 1463 01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:20,120 Speaker 1: but like at the White House out there doing good work, 1464 01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,679 Speaker 1: and like it feels nice to be in a moment, 1465 01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,320 Speaker 1: where as you said you could just be yourself. I 1466 01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,000 Speaker 1: feel like I get to be more myself. Everyone I 1467 01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,080 Speaker 1: know who really finds joy, no matter how long it takes, 1468 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:36,400 Speaker 1: who finally learns to choose themselves in their own happiness. 1469 01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:40,679 Speaker 1: Like what a gift because you teach people by being. 1470 01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,680 Speaker 1: And so I guess like, when we look at this 1471 01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:48,680 Speaker 1: whole landscape, you know things we're revisiting, healing, we're doing reclaiming, 1472 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:52,040 Speaker 1: we're doing all the joy we've got, like being loved, 1473 01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:55,679 Speaker 1: being embodied, all the things like as you look out, 1474 01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,040 Speaker 1: obviously you and I are working on the election, we 1475 01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:01,240 Speaker 1: know that, but when you look at the year ahead 1476 01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:04,640 Speaker 1: of what feels like you're work in progress. 1477 01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:09,040 Speaker 2: Oh god, okay, beyond the election. 1478 01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:15,840 Speaker 1: Okay, that's response oon, what about what about the what about? 1479 01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:16,800 Speaker 1: What's next? 1480 01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:22,960 Speaker 2: What's next? Is I have such a good group of 1481 01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:26,959 Speaker 2: creative friends and people around me that I love and respect, 1482 01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:29,360 Speaker 2: and we have so many ideas of things we want 1483 01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:32,559 Speaker 2: to do and get made, and some of them we 1484 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,280 Speaker 2: think will help make the world a better place. And 1485 01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:40,000 Speaker 2: so it's about actually following through on some of those 1486 01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:44,519 Speaker 2: thing yeah, and not just talking about them in theory 1487 01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,160 Speaker 2: and actually let's figure out how to do this, and 1488 01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:51,439 Speaker 2: I think that would be just it's so fun because 1489 01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,440 Speaker 2: also just getting to put people together almost producing the situations. 1490 01:22:57,200 --> 01:22:59,400 Speaker 2: I want this person to work with this person and 1491 01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:01,439 Speaker 2: like that's figure out how that's going to work. And 1492 01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,439 Speaker 2: I just want to do a lot of that and 1493 01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,080 Speaker 2: figure out how to make these sort of dreams and 1494 01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,080 Speaker 2: wishes actually happened. 1495 01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,400 Speaker 1: Me too, Count me in. I'm ready to go signing 1496 01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:12,559 Speaker 1: up all the things. 1497 01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:16,559 Speaker 2: Okay, great, cool, So we have a god we can 1498 01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:17,400 Speaker 2: have this chat. 1499 01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,880 Speaker 1: Okay, great, can't wait to an once our next project 1500 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:24,840 Speaker 1: to the world. All Right, I love you, go, thank 1501 01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:25,280 Speaker 1: you so much. 1502 01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,800 Speaker 2: Ch I have a confession. I don't know if you 1503 01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,639 Speaker 2: remember this. I remember this the other day goes hockey 1504 01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:36,000 Speaker 2: with So you were having one of your parties and 1505 01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,839 Speaker 2: I brought my brother, which I had never done. 1506 01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,360 Speaker 1: Like friends giving party or Saint Patrick's Prey. No, it 1507 01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:43,120 Speaker 1: was which is random house. 1508 01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:44,560 Speaker 2: It was like one of the music. 1509 01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:46,320 Speaker 1: Living room show. 1510 01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:50,400 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, and it was a bigger one because 1511 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:51,760 Speaker 2: they started off pretty small and then. 1512 01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:53,479 Speaker 1: They like, yeah, they started to grow. 1513 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:59,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Ed Sheeran was at your house and I was like, 1514 01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,479 Speaker 2: that's new. I were like walking in. I'm like, he's 1515 01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:06,080 Speaker 2: very famous. And my brother we were on the balcony 1516 01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:10,240 Speaker 2: upstairs and my brother, So what I thought happened was 1517 01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:14,160 Speaker 2: my brother put his beer on the banister, yeah, and 1518 01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,519 Speaker 2: then turned and knocked it down and it fell where 1519 01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,320 Speaker 2: Ed Sheeran was standing not twenty seconds before. 1520 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:21,479 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 1521 01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:25,640 Speaker 2: But I realized I blamed my brother. I was like, 1522 01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,840 Speaker 2: my brother, I bring my brother one time to your 1523 01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,200 Speaker 2: house and he almost kills like the biggest artists in 1524 01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,240 Speaker 2: the world. But I realized it was me. 1525 01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:35,120 Speaker 1: It was you. 1526 01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,000 Speaker 2: He put the beer stupidly on the banister. 1527 01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:39,160 Speaker 1: So there's that's not a great call. 1528 01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:43,360 Speaker 2: Fine, And then I turned and knocked it over and 1529 01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,200 Speaker 2: it went like flipping down to the bottom and splattered. 1530 01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:51,000 Speaker 2: And I just remember looking over because I had looked 1531 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,160 Speaker 2: down right before, and Ed Sheeran was right there. And 1532 01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:57,080 Speaker 2: then you come running out and you look up and 1533 01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:02,400 Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry, Like 1534 01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:06,519 Speaker 2: in the middle of your party, I almost just kill 1535 01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:08,160 Speaker 2: Ed sheer List. 1536 01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:12,720 Speaker 1: Nobody needed stitches, and I'm I'm very obsessive compulsive, so 1537 01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:14,800 Speaker 1: I have like a dust bin and a little thing 1538 01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:15,160 Speaker 1: you did. 1539 01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:16,960 Speaker 2: You were out there in seconds with the dust I've 1540 01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:19,480 Speaker 2: got them all over the place. Yeah, it was very impressive, 1541 01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,200 Speaker 2: but I felt horrified. I just need to get that 1542 01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:22,840 Speaker 2: off my chest. 1543 01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:25,880 Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to publicly apologize to Ed Cheerin 1544 01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:27,439 Speaker 1: or do we feel like we've done it. 1545 01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:34,160 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, cheer we never even met. I just almost 1546 01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:35,639 Speaker 2: severely injured him. 1547 01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,120 Speaker 1: Clearly he needs to join you for an episode of 1548 01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:39,160 Speaker 1: the podcast. 1549 01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:39,599 Speaker 2: Or maybe. 1550 01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:45,280 Speaker 1: Massive Glee fan. Well, okay, hey, Internet, help us figure 1551 01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:45,599 Speaker 1: it out. 1552 01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I need to personally apologize. I don't even 1553 01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:50,599 Speaker 2: think he I don't know if he realized how close 1554 01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,360 Speaker 2: he was to a beer bottle smashing on his head 1555 01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:54,560 Speaker 2: from a second. 1556 01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:57,080 Speaker 1: Story touched by an angel. 1557 01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,400 Speaker 2: I guess he really moved just in time. I will 1558 01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:04,040 Speaker 2: never get over it. Anyway, I feel much better at 1559 01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:06,880 Speaker 2: having it because I was literally giving my brother the 1560 01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:08,599 Speaker 2: other day, like, remember when I brought you to Soap's 1561 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,479 Speaker 2: house and you almost kill that cheer And he's like, 1562 01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,320 Speaker 2: is that right? He's like, you did that and then 1563 01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:15,200 Speaker 2: we can reconstruct it. I was like, oh, yeah, that 1564 01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:15,439 Speaker 2: was me. 1565 01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:18,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Well look at this. That's what they 1566 01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:21,760 Speaker 1: call growth, just like owning your mistakes. Moving on right, 1567 01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:26,040 Speaker 1: my badad. We're glad you're still with us. 1568 01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:31,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. Please keep making beautiful songs with that beautiful soldiery voice. 1569 01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:36,760 Speaker 1: New music soon, please, please Thank you for coming. Go 1570 01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:37,639 Speaker 1: do your other job. 1571 01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:42,880 Speaker 2: I love you, Okay, j and I said hi bye everyone,