Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid Verbo hell that for me. I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well,
Speaker 1: I want to be happy. You want to be happy
Speaker 1: for a day? Edo steak?
Speaker 2: Is that woof? Woof? And then and tie, welcome back
Speaker 2: to the salververbal joys of girls.
Speaker 1: My name is Ty.
Speaker 2: He'll a brand that fine gentleman away over there on
Speaker 2: the far side of the good old us of A
Speaker 2: the one the only still the comfortable.
Speaker 1: Dan Rubenstein, sir, how are you. I'm good. Some might
Speaker 1: argue that you're the one who's way over there, terribly
Speaker 1: far away from the best coast. But I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's a lot of family time. There's been a
Speaker 1: lot of rain out here in southern California, but it's
Speaker 1: it's been largely good. I'm always just more worried about
Speaker 1: my av setup, which is now on a card table
Speaker 1: literally here you can. That's next to the bed that
Speaker 1: I sleep in, And it's just it's it's a different
Speaker 1: setup with toddlers running around. And look, life is all right.
Speaker 1: I've been watching some Bowl games, been paying attention to
Speaker 1: some news. Excited for we're recording this with some of
Speaker 1: the bigger Bowl games being yet to be played, so
Speaker 1: I'm not going to like, oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: believe blobbity blohmity blah. But life is all right, ty,
Speaker 1: How you doing, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Are you pulling the Michael Barbara with the pillow for
Speaker 2: it to get maximum sonic optimization?
Speaker 1: I have two pillows directly in front of me, and
Speaker 1: if you're watching, if you're lucky enough to be on
Speaker 1: rulers dot com and watching the video, I don't have
Speaker 1: any anything soft behind me. There's just some books. I'm
Speaker 1: literally staying in my middle brother's childhood bedroom and he's
Speaker 1: a pilot and there's a broken wing just like the
Speaker 1: Beatles song. There's a broken wingtip And no, it's a
Speaker 1: relatively soft room. It's carpeted. There's a bed right here,
Speaker 1: there's a closet to my left. And it's not the
Speaker 1: full New York Times treatment though I have made the
Speaker 1: audio igloo before and it's not bad. It's a nice experience.
Speaker 2: Well, welcome back to the sho Hope everyone had a
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Speaker 2: Howard signed mini helmet Dan Desmond Howard friend of the
Speaker 2: podcast apparently apparently.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just learned this yesterday. I went on his
Speaker 1: podcast and he apparently likes the solidverbal. That's pretty cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you hit everything you need to hit.
Speaker 2: So here is the deal, Dan, We've got a game
Speaker 2: today that I'm calling three reasons why. Three reasons why.
Speaker 1: For new coaches. Okay mm hmm.
Speaker 2: As you know, this is a very active coaching carousel,
Speaker 2: was it not.
Speaker 1: Man, it's gonna be a different looking sport in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two.
Speaker 2: We're gonna go through one reason why new coaches will work,
Speaker 2: one reason why they won't. You are one pathetic loser whoa?
Speaker 2: And then finally, just one burning question as we head
Speaker 2: into the twenty twenty two seasons. All right, does that
Speaker 2: make sense to you?
Speaker 1: I'll do my best it does.
Speaker 2: I was doing a little shimmy there listening to Bruno.
Speaker 1: Not a sponsor, could be You're suggesting that it's on
Speaker 1: the table that Bruno mars sponsor of the solid verbal.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, okay, if he's looking to attract an
Speaker 1: interesting new demographic, I'm ready, LSU. LSU got rid of coach.
Speaker 2: Oh, they're bringing in Brian Kelly, Brian Kelly and his family. Um,
Speaker 2: give me a reason why it's gonna work.
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly, if nothing else, is somebody who wins a
Speaker 1: lot of games and a lot of places, understands, we presume,
Speaker 1: what it's like to hire a winning staff, what it's
Speaker 1: like to instill a week to week winning culture, to
Speaker 1: wather down moments, and you know, reverse course, he understands
Speaker 1: how to put together a staff who can recruit. But
Speaker 1: with what he's done at what Central Michigan and Cincinnati
Speaker 1: and Notre Dame and Notre Dame being a humongous place
Speaker 1: with humongous pressure, and the ease with which LSU and
Speaker 1: you know, any SEC team really, if they're on their game,
Speaker 1: can geographically, go out and sell their program and bring
Speaker 1: in top flight players to develop into a top flight team.
Speaker 1: More difficult after Dame, given geography and academic restrictions in
Speaker 1: some cases, but certainly Notre Dame sells itself. But LSU's
Speaker 1: just different. LSU is a team that has actually won
Speaker 1: and played for national championships multiple times, whereas Notre Dame
Speaker 1: couldn't quite get that over that hump and do it
Speaker 1: as consistently as LSU. Everybody wins and wan at LSU,
Speaker 1: and Brian Kelly wins everywhere. So that's the case.
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly's won two hundred and eighty four games if
Speaker 2: you count the twenty one that the NCAA vacated back
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve and twenty thirteen, everywhere. As he said,
Speaker 2: Grand Valley State, Central Michigan, Cincinnati a Notre Dame for
Speaker 2: the last twelve years.
Speaker 1: It's notable.
Speaker 2: I think Brian Kelly has been a pretty good recruiter,
Speaker 2: even in that SEC footprint, right, He's recruited nationally at
Speaker 2: Notre Dame. It's just something you have to do. He
Speaker 2: has left every program better than when he found it,
Speaker 2: and in Notre Dame's case, for the last five years
Speaker 2: that's been double digit wins. So I think yeah, on
Speaker 2: the surface, as opposed to some of these other hires
Speaker 2: that we're going to discuss here momentarily, there's a very
Speaker 2: promising track record with Brian Kelly that you got to
Speaker 2: feel good about.
Speaker 1: He did it largely and what he rebuilt a down
Speaker 1: noting program that took over and turned into So right
Speaker 1: now you can argue LSU is a down program that
Speaker 1: needs a lot of elbow.
Speaker 2: Grease as for one reason why it won't.
Speaker 1: Work.
Speaker 2: M H. I don't believe for a second that it won't.
Speaker 2: But this is very much a marriage of convenience, and
Speaker 2: as you said, there are previous coaches. Each of the
Speaker 2: last however, many coaches at LSU have won a national championship.
Speaker 2: That's the one goal here if you're Brian Kelly, it's
Speaker 2: a one goal if you're LSU. We have seen Brian
Speaker 2: Kelly in this play before where he's been on a
Speaker 2: big stage, either in a playoff or otherwise in a
Speaker 2: big game, and it has not exactly worked out. Go
Speaker 2: on over to Andy Nation, they'll tell you all about it.
Speaker 2: They've been trying to get rid of Brian Kelly. For
Speaker 2: years because they don't think he performed well in that stage.
Speaker 2: There's a case to be made though that what was
Speaker 2: holding Notre Dame back with Brian Kelly. So with all
Speaker 2: that said, now onto the burning question Dan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think by the way, everything you said, I
Speaker 1: think is correct. I think the SEC West is harder
Speaker 1: than what Notre Dame has scheduled in recent years, by
Speaker 1: and large, especially with the ACC being down and the
Speaker 1: Alabama exists, they're scheduled in their division every year that
Speaker 1: the case against LSU is the blueprint for historic championship
Speaker 1: football is one of their quote unquote rivals, and that
Speaker 1: is more difficult than playing a down USC or a
Speaker 1: random NC State team or occasionally Clemson. It's just it's
Speaker 1: a more difficult place to meet expectations. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and BK in big games is a work in progress.
Speaker 1: Let's Sure's be honest here. It just is so SEC West. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll see what he's made of. That's why they're paying
Speaker 1: the big bucks, and they expect him to win.
Speaker 2: How long of a leash she gets if he doesn't win,
Speaker 2: And again I don't think that he won't size of
Speaker 2: said leash that will be interesting to see, and.
Speaker 1: He's making a lot of money. So it is a
Speaker 1: golden diamond encrusted leash, so he will be given time.
Speaker 1: What is your burning question about BK at LSU, what
Speaker 1: that full staff looks like, and what kind of autonomy
Speaker 1: he has with big decisions, be it with staff, be
Speaker 1: it with getting rid of staff. We saw at Oorzron
Speaker 1: have a lot of latitude in terms of hiring, firing,
Speaker 1: making new decisions quickly cutting the cord when a guy,
Speaker 1: a coordinator isn't working. I assume they're going to invest
Speaker 1: a lot of money in top flight coordinators as they
Speaker 1: have done these past few years, or quote unquote top
Speaker 1: flight quarter coordinators if you look back at the bo
Speaker 1: Polini experiment. But yeah, it's what that offense looks like.
Speaker 1: It's what quarterback looks like. If there was a question
Speaker 1: at Notre Dame, it was a rotating cast of coordinators
Speaker 1: who worked to various degrees. He hired Brian van Goorter, right,
Speaker 1: So his hiring is not bulletproof. His quarterback development and
Speaker 1: evaluation is not bulletproof. And if it doesn't go well
Speaker 1: at LS you it's a nightmare that I don't know
Speaker 1: how quickly he can recover from well.
Speaker 2: And that's my question, can develop a quarterback because the
Speaker 2: best three quarterbacks in the last twelve years at Notre
Speaker 2: Dame have been Ian Book, Deshaun Kaiser, and depending on
Speaker 2: which way the wind blows, either Tommy Reese or ever Golson.
Speaker 2: Sure Book was a good quarterback in college. There was
Speaker 2: a ceiling to what he could give him. He was
Speaker 2: good winning his quarterback in program history. But go back
Speaker 2: and listen to some of my old commentary to get
Speaker 2: how I felt about ian Book sure and how that
Speaker 2: quarterback position developed over the years. It's like seven of
Speaker 2: the twelve seasons in South Bend for BK that he
Speaker 2: had a hard time committing to a quarterback and LSU
Speaker 2: knows that song and dance well, like outside of twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen and obviously twenty nineteen, it's pretty much been a
Speaker 2: deep dark hole outside the Joe Burrow years.
Speaker 1: That's not what they're looking for.
Speaker 2: They're looking for somebody who call and harness the true
Speaker 2: power of that recruiting operation and the talent that they
Speaker 2: bring on to play as part of that offense.
Speaker 1: So can he do it? At LSU?
Speaker 2: I don't know if a change of scenery helps him
Speaker 2: do that, but he will have the chance, and I
Speaker 2: think that's going to be truly the burning question for me,
Speaker 2: not just this coming year, but really throughout his entire
Speaker 2: stay in Baton Rouge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you're totally right, and he's again. I
Speaker 1: go back to the division thing. For whatever reason, we
Speaker 1: are now in a golden era of SEC West quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: With what Alabama does the year after year, we know
Speaker 1: Mike Leach and Lane Kiffin are going to develop, find
Speaker 1: and develop dudes who are productive. Same goes for Jimbo Fisher,
Speaker 1: same goes it seems for Kendall Kendall Briles in Arkansas
Speaker 1: with how quickly they got Felipe Franks up to speed,
Speaker 1: and now kJ Jefferson is to me a big national name.
Speaker 1: So you don't want to be the one left standing
Speaker 1: without solid to very good quarterback play. When the music stops.
Speaker 1: All right, where do you want to go next? You
Speaker 1: tell me, man, you made the Google doc. Let's go
Speaker 1: to Lincoln Riley.
Speaker 2: Okay, and USC Clay Hilton out Lincoln Riley in Here
Speaker 2: is why I think this works. I think this works
Speaker 2: because there are now serious people running the USC football program,
Speaker 2: the athletic department as George Costanza would say, these are
Speaker 2: men with jobs. They've finally gotten away from that whole
Speaker 2: USC guy thing because they've got Mike Bone in from Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: He's not a USC guy. Lincoln Riley clearly not a
Speaker 2: USC guy either. It starts at the top, and now
Speaker 2: there are capable people running this thing, So I feel
Speaker 2: good about that. I think the situation is better, will
Speaker 2: be better now. Lincoln Riley has clearly proven that he
Speaker 2: can develop talent, he can put it into the NFL,
Speaker 2: he can recruit nationally, he can recruit California. He's been
Speaker 2: a perennial top dog in a conference that I'm sorry
Speaker 2: to say is much better than the Pac twelve much
Speaker 2: and he's been doing so for the last couple seasons.
Speaker 1: No, I mean the case for Lincoln rally is very easy.
Speaker 1: I mean, his offenses are electric. He produces Heisman winning
Speaker 1: quarterbacks and high draft picks at receiver, quarterback, running back, whatever.
Speaker 1: The offensive line has been great. And yeah, his path
Speaker 1: towards his path to the playoff within the PAC twelve,
Speaker 1: if USC is merely good, even if they're not great,
Speaker 1: is a lot cleaner than it would be in many
Speaker 1: other conferences. His name came up with the LSU opening.
Speaker 1: It's a lot cleaner that path to get to the
Speaker 1: playoff and restore USC to where its fans think the
Speaker 1: trojan should be in the national conversation with what the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve looks like right now. No, it's I mean,
Speaker 1: the recruiting is interesting because you know, Southern California is
Speaker 1: not what it was during the Pete Carroll time. And
Speaker 1: I just I think the big thing is the path
Speaker 1: and path and offense I think is the clear case.
Speaker 2: More importantly, the program didn't go off a cliff after
Speaker 2: he took it over for Bob Stoops. Correct, And we've
Speaker 2: seen many a coach step in for a legend and
Speaker 2: go full Thelma and Louise.
Speaker 1: Just true with a couple of years and no, it survived.
Speaker 1: Why won't it work? Dan, give me a reason it
Speaker 1: won't work? Because everybody looks at USC and says, man,
Speaker 1: look what he did at Oklahoma with that offense, Imagine
Speaker 1: what he could do at USC with that path. He's
Speaker 1: bringing the Oklahoma defensive coaches with him, and that's something
Speaker 1: that's interesting, I suppose, And maybe there were reasons it
Speaker 1: didn't work out at Oklahoma, but he recruited good defensive prospects,
Speaker 1: a lot of blue chip players on all three levels
Speaker 1: that Oklahoma was able to bring in. It won't work
Speaker 1: because of the defense. It won't work because Lincoln Riley
Speaker 1: has never taken over a down program. He was, you know,
Speaker 1: he was handed the keys to a maserati with experience,
Speaker 1: having already driven it some of the time. And at
Speaker 1: USC it's a rebuilt, it's a construction. It's a different place.
Speaker 1: And we think USC has invested resources and is now
Speaker 1: a more serious place with more serious leadership. But we
Speaker 1: actually have to see it right. We don't have actual
Speaker 1: evidence of it yet, And so is it Lincoln. And
Speaker 1: we're also on the heels of Lincoln Riley's arguable worst
Speaker 1: season as an Oklahoma head coach, not making the Big
Speaker 1: Twelve championship game, And so is there any sort of
Speaker 1: momentum to people figuring out Lincoln Riley or people figuring
Speaker 1: out Okay, if he doesn't have a top one pick
Speaker 1: in the NFL Draft, maybe his teams are merely good
Speaker 1: and not great, And so maybe there's that Lincoln Riley
Speaker 1: regressing to becoming a merely very good coach, not a
Speaker 1: coach with an elite reputation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're kind of saying the same thing here.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask the question about the defense in my
Speaker 2: burning question bit here, But okay, on the specific topic
Speaker 2: of why won't it work? I do think the risk
Speaker 2: of failure is pretty low. But even though he's not
Speaker 2: a USC guy and we feel good about that, they
Speaker 2: did still sort of use the same hiring template, didn't they?
Speaker 2: Like Riley is the latest on this long list of
Speaker 2: up and coming offensive geniuses that USC has tried and
Speaker 2: spit out over.
Speaker 1: The young guns, the hot, sexy Clay Helton type.
Speaker 2: So you know they've tried this before, and albeit now
Speaker 2: with new leadership, perhaps that's more of a fertile crescent
Speaker 2: for a program to rise up and take the playoff
Speaker 2: in the PAC twelve by storm. I don't know, mm hmm,
Speaker 2: but I would like to see one year before I
Speaker 2: fully committed the bit and saying that, yeah, this is
Speaker 2: gonna work.
Speaker 1: So what's your burning question is defense? You said?
Speaker 2: My burning question is can he toughen up the defense?
Speaker 2: Like you said, he brought over Alex Grinch with him
Speaker 2: from Oklahoma. They're gonna have their work cut out for
Speaker 2: him because this past year for USC, the defense was
Speaker 2: Drake Jackson and then around him ten guys who got
Speaker 2: pushed around, and developing defense has not been his forte.
Speaker 2: He's trying to get better. That's why he brought Alex
Speaker 2: Grinch over from Ohio State a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: and there have been marginal improvements there. But I think
Speaker 2: this is a different kind of rebuild. He's going to
Speaker 2: need to toughen him up, and I don't know if
Speaker 2: we've seen a whole lot of proof that he can
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: So we'll see.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at a certain point, you have to keep going
Speaker 1: further and further back in time for Alex Grinch's success,
Speaker 1: and that's not always the best, right, That's not always
Speaker 1: the like, this is a dude year in and year out,
Speaker 1: he just even producing solid defenses might be an improvement
Speaker 1: over where Oklahoma was. So yeah, I think that's definitely
Speaker 1: an open question. On a coast, in a recruiting footprint
Speaker 1: that doesn't produce four five star defensive tackles, edge rushers,
Speaker 1: safe like, it's just that it's your farther and farther
Speaker 1: away geograph, which is why you know I and Ryan
Speaker 1: Abraham when we did our show, we talked about the
Speaker 1: national recruiting footprint that USC sees itself with, because that's
Speaker 1: what it'll need to be. It's it's difficult. We both
Speaker 1: feel pretty bullish on this move, though.
Speaker 2: I do. Yeah, okay, let's go on over to the
Speaker 2: replacement at Oklahoma, Lincoln Riley.
Speaker 1: Out Brent Venables in.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is a much more interesting conversation
Speaker 2: because now we're starting to pop the hood on guys
Speaker 2: who have not any previous college football head coaching experience, right.
Speaker 2: That was sort of a theme with some of these hires.
Speaker 2: These guys come in with much acclaim. Brent Venables is
Speaker 2: no different. Brent Venables knows the place, loves the place,
Speaker 2: is from the general area, coached under great coaches, and
Speaker 2: has been very patient for the right situation. He didn't
Speaker 2: just jump at the first opportunity or knows he had
Speaker 2: a ton of opportunities out there. But one of the
Speaker 2: reasons why I think this will work is because he
Speaker 2: was patient, waited for a situation that he thought was
Speaker 2: good for him. He also knows how to recruit. He
Speaker 2: certainly knows how to build an elite defense, which probably
Speaker 2: means a very high floor like, defenses respond to this guy,
Speaker 2: and I think he will get them playing a tougher,
Speaker 2: better brand of defense in Norman pretty quickly. He also
Speaker 2: did a good job of quelling fears about his offensive
Speaker 2: expertise by hiring away Jeff Lebby from Old Miss to
Speaker 2: run the offense. Now, some folks are mixed on Jeff Lebby,
Speaker 2: there's baggage from the Baylor thing and whatever. But in
Speaker 2: a pure football sense, Jeff Lebby did a good job
Speaker 2: at a really good job with Matt Carrall and Lane
Speaker 2: Kiffin at Old Miss, and so that's a pretty good
Speaker 2: hire as football things go. Those are the reasons why
Speaker 2: I think it will work. He's a good guy, he
Speaker 2: knows the place well, he knows how to recruit. He
Speaker 2: obviously brought in some firepower on offense.
Speaker 1: I'll talk about ted Roof on defense. We'll get to
Speaker 1: that in a second, but yeah, I think ted Roof
Speaker 1: is probably the patsy if things don't start out well
Speaker 1: on defense, and it's Brent Venables's defense, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we got to move on from ted Roof, right that
Speaker 1: you hired like that patsy guy that is friendly and
Speaker 1: interview as well, But no, I think you made the
Speaker 1: case pretty well. I mean, it's also Brent Venables has
Speaker 1: experienced fielding very strong defenses when his own offense, when
Speaker 1: his own team's offense is explosive and electric, at least
Speaker 1: until this past season, which is where Oklahoma struggled. They
Speaker 1: didn't have the depth, they didn't have the strategy. They
Speaker 1: weren't able to force the turnovers that a defense that
Speaker 1: sees itself on the field a lot because of a
Speaker 1: quick scoring offense is not always able to do. So,
Speaker 1: I know, I think that the force of personality, that
Speaker 1: the experience, the stage with which Brent Venables is used
Speaker 1: to winning, it's all a big plus. In his column,
Speaker 1: why won't it work? It won't work because he's a
Speaker 1: first time head coach and it's difficult as a first
Speaker 1: time head coach to take over a major, major, blue
Speaker 1: chip program with expectations on the level of Oklahoma's, which
Speaker 1: should realistically be the playoff. USC's should maybe eventually be
Speaker 1: the playoff. But what Oklahoma has and what Oklahoma invests
Speaker 1: in this program, what they're able to attract in terms
Speaker 1: of national recruits, you know, bringing the number one quarterback
Speaker 1: from the DC area with Caleb Williams, you know, going
Speaker 1: to California, you know, obviously going into Texas, there's a
Speaker 1: ton of pressure to win at Oklahoma. And if he's
Speaker 1: merely good and he is merely running a nine to
Speaker 1: three program, he's a failure. And so that's why it
Speaker 1: won't work. He just he hasn't been in that seat before,
Speaker 1: and to be in that seat for the first time
Speaker 1: with those types of expectations, it's Man, it's a lot
Speaker 1: that day to day of running a huge program all
Speaker 1: the small medium in large elements, it's difficult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's also moving into the SEC shortly good call,
Speaker 2: which does mean tougher competition on a week to week basis.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's good to get that defense in prime working
Speaker 2: order beforehand. That would serve them. Well, I just wrote
Speaker 2: down ted Roof. I don't I mean ted Roofs. I'm
Speaker 2: sure a nice guy. I don't like ted Roof running
Speaker 2: my defense.
Speaker 1: I don't want him. I don't think my defense. I
Speaker 1: don't think he's running the defense.
Speaker 2: Even if he's not running it, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: want the leaky Roof anywhere near my defense.
Speaker 1: I honestly I don't think his his his fingerprints will
Speaker 1: be all over this Oklahoma defense in the way like
Speaker 1: he will be tasked with helping to run it. I
Speaker 1: don't know who's calling the defensive plays during a game,
Speaker 1: but I don't think and I could be wrong. Brent
Speaker 1: Vennable said, Yep, that's my dude. And maybe Ted Roof
Speaker 1: is just an iron chef type. He only wins with
Speaker 1: top top, top, top, top level talent. But also that
Speaker 1: kind of hasn't been the case either, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, I don't want I don't want the leaky Roof
Speaker 2: anywhere in my defense. That spooked me a little bit.
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of like the cooler that the casinos
Speaker 1: bring in when somebody's too hot at the craps table.
Speaker 2: That spooks me to the same degree as Jimmy Lake
Speaker 2: hiring John Donovan.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, Okay, that's reasonable.
Speaker 2: Burning question for me is can he continue the momentum
Speaker 2: on the offensive side of the ball even though he
Speaker 2: hired Leby, Yeah, and even though he held on to
Speaker 2: Kle Williams. There's an open question for me, like two
Speaker 2: or three years from now, what shape is that offense
Speaker 2: going to take? Because I think whether or not Leby
Speaker 2: is successful. He's probably destined for a head job somewhere
Speaker 2: relatively soon. And so that means or hire an other people.
Speaker 2: That means you got to continue with that recruiting operation.
Speaker 2: Certainly at the quarterback position. That recruiting operation ran through
Speaker 2: Lincoln Riley. This is a dude who pumped out Heisman
Speaker 2: Trophy winning quarterbacks first overall draft picks. If you're Caleb
Speaker 2: William or someone like Caleb William Spencer Rattler, why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you want to go there?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: It doesn't have that same level of cachet, So what's
Speaker 2: it look like a couple of years down the road.
Speaker 2: On the offensive side, especially defensively, we know the drill there. Defensively,
Speaker 2: he puts guys in the league. We saw it did
Speaker 2: at Clempson. Everywhere he's been he's done a good job
Speaker 2: with defense. But offensively, even with a really good coordinator,
Speaker 2: that to me is is the burning question. I just
Speaker 2: don't know what to make of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's totally reasonable. And some of the
Speaker 1: continuity for Oklahoma, especially Bill beat and Bow up front,
Speaker 1: certainly is an amazing starting point. His reputation as an
Speaker 1: offensive line coach, But You're right. It's when you have
Speaker 1: these defensive standout minds taking over a full program, what
Speaker 1: do they want their offense to be like? And we've
Speaker 1: seen it time after time where defensive coaches want the
Speaker 1: offense to serve the defense. They want ball control, they
Speaker 1: want the defense rested, they want to dominate the game
Speaker 1: via defense. They don't want to play with pace because
Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to risk getting off the
Speaker 1: field super quickly. And so is Brent Venables open to
Speaker 1: airing it out, letting it fly, playing quickly, you know,
Speaker 1: playing creative RPO stuff, which obviously comes with you know,
Speaker 1: the Jeff Lebby fingerprints on the offense. I don't know
Speaker 1: what Jeff Lebby's play calling experience was under both Josh
Speaker 1: Hipel and Lane Kiff, And I know Lane Kiffin called
Speaker 1: the plays last year for Ole Miss. So to what
Speaker 1: degree was Lebby involved with the architecture of that offense?
Speaker 1: My guess is significantly. But yeah, I think you're right,
Speaker 1: what is the vision for this offense with Brent Venables
Speaker 1: perspective coming from the defensive side? Defensive? So I'm right
Speaker 1: there with you.
Speaker 2: Dan, Let's go out west to Washington. Your favorite school.
Speaker 1: I like Washington. That's right on a lake. Seattle is
Speaker 1: a great city. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Lake out, Caitlin de boor In.
Speaker 1: I love this higher Okay, talk to me. I love it.
Speaker 2: This is low key my favorite hire of the cycle.
Speaker 2: What it is?
Speaker 1: It is wow? Okay, I love this move. I love it.
Speaker 2: He's forty seven and seventy nine and nine as a
Speaker 2: head coach if you count the two years at Fresno
Speaker 2: and the five years before that at Sioux Falls, which
Speaker 2: is lower level of college football granted, but won three
Speaker 2: championships there. He has had an almost instant impact everywhere
Speaker 2: he's gone, especially on offense. Mainly on offense. That's been
Speaker 2: his nay right yep, sort of an understated guy, like
Speaker 2: a really good cultural fit for that part of the
Speaker 2: country in the Pacific Northwest. He brings over Ryan Grubb,
Speaker 2: who was his OC at Fresno, and that was a
Speaker 2: good Fresno team. They made a former Husky quarterback and
Speaker 2: j Camp looked really good. Just a lot to like
Speaker 2: you made Michael Penick junior. Michael Pennix liked him so
Speaker 2: much he's transferring up to Washington now. H So this
Speaker 2: is a guy who, by all accounts and x's and
Speaker 2: o's genie, seems like he fits in very well culturally.
Speaker 2: I do have some questions about the recruiting, which we
Speaker 2: can talk about, but talk me off that position, Dan, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean the case I think you nailed the case
Speaker 2: for it's is really as simple as he wins everywhere
Speaker 2: he's been on smaller, medium, and larger levels in the
Speaker 2: Mountain West.
Speaker 1: Now he hasn't run a program of this size. And
Speaker 1: the expectations in Washington are winning eight plus games, competing
Speaker 1: at their best, competing for a conference crown, and given
Speaker 1: you know, expectations in the history of Washington at its best,
Speaker 1: and this was a playoff team what five years ago,
Speaker 1: So it's not unrealistic to say they should be at
Speaker 1: their best and when they're at their most experience and
Speaker 1: when they've nailed evaluation and development, they should be winning
Speaker 1: ten plus games at their best, not every year, but
Speaker 1: when they're hitting their ceiling. The question to me is
Speaker 1: Oregon's not going anywhere. To me, USC is improving, Wazoo
Speaker 1: will see Stanford is down. The Arizona schools are. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think Arizona is heading in the right direction, but
Speaker 1: it's going to be a while. UCLA I think is decent.
Speaker 1: But is Kaylin de Borr able to acquire and develop
Speaker 1: talent recruiting against the West Coast powers and obviously Utah
Speaker 1: is a year and a year out very good. Is
Speaker 1: he going to be able to build a roster to
Speaker 1: compete to win nine plus games? Because I think they
Speaker 1: can win eight or nine, But I don't know about
Speaker 1: his ceiling if he's not able to bring in top
Speaker 1: flight talent, and so what I've seen from the staff
Speaker 1: hires early is familiarity. I'm curious to see. I think
Speaker 1: it's more of an open question. How much does Washington
Speaker 1: invest in recruiting. Chris Peterson really built a recruiting operation
Speaker 1: in Seattle and they were fielding top flight recruiting classes
Speaker 1: and taking advantage of SARKS classes as well. Just the
Speaker 1: question to me is what does the talent level look like?
Speaker 1: Are they going to rely solely on development? And if so,
Speaker 1: that that's great, but that's sort of that that's when
Speaker 1: you get into that nine win ceiling. So on the margins,
Speaker 1: how talented will Washington be in three years is my
Speaker 1: open question. Yeah, I think we're both sort of saying
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, when we talk about the reason
Speaker 1: it won't work as well as the burning question totally,
Speaker 1: can he build a recruiting operation that can match up
Speaker 1: with the likes of Oregon? Schematically, everyone loves him, everyone
Speaker 1: thinks he's a genius. Schematically sure, but the recruiting side
Speaker 1: of this is very interesting to me. And on some level, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to take that recruiting operation up a peg,
Speaker 1: and you've got to find a way to bring in
Speaker 1: that top flight talent and develop that that gives you
Speaker 1: the higher ceiling. I don't know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: we've seen that he can do that yet. And so Washington,
Speaker 1: by the way, the state of is an underrated place
Speaker 1: in terms of recruits. And we've seen the path from
Speaker 1: Washington to Ohio state look fertile. You know, JT Toamalu,
Speaker 1: A couple of receivers these past couple of years heading
Speaker 1: to Ohio State. It's can he even just keep those
Speaker 1: kids home? Can he convince and build the Washington brand
Speaker 1: to a point where top flight Northwest recruits are saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: Washington's the move, not even just Oregon, not even USC,
Speaker 1: but staying away from Notre Dame Michigan. You know Ohio
Speaker 1: state obviously that you know teams nationally are going to
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest, and so it's rebuilding Washington from the
Speaker 1: failed Jimmy Lake experiment.
Speaker 2: All right, Dan, if only for dramatic interlude, It's our
Speaker 2: DraftKings Game of the Week, presented by the DraftKings Sports Book.
Speaker 2: We talked about this on the Monday Show. We're getting
Speaker 2: closer to the playoff. This show dropping on Wednesday, the
Speaker 2: playoff on Friday. Again, it's Michigan, it's Georgia right now.
Speaker 2: Georgia favored by seven and a half. You're over under
Speaker 2: listed at forty five points. It's like a freaking NFL game.
Speaker 2: This is the game that I am looking forward to.
Speaker 2: It is on Friday evening. I need to find a
Speaker 2: way to watch this game amid the other New Year's
Speaker 2: Eve festivities. Thanks Bill Hancock. But I'm excited. I'm excited
Speaker 2: for this game. I am still on Georgia minus the
Speaker 2: seven and a half. You I believe are on Michigan
Speaker 2: plus the seven and a half.
Speaker 1: Who are you picking out right?
Speaker 2: One more time?
Speaker 1: Michigan the Wolverines. I'm staying with it.
Speaker 2: Are you saying that because you believe it, or because
Speaker 2: you want to stay married.
Speaker 1: I believe it now. I do believe it because I
Speaker 1: was on a podcast and one of the hosts brought
Speaker 1: up a good point that Georgia is secretly like the
Speaker 1: super rich Man's the billionaires Big Ten team with winning
Speaker 1: with defense and ball control efficiency and a quarterback who
Speaker 1: is good and make plays, but it makes plays but
Speaker 1: is not always. This is not an electric, explosive offense
Speaker 1: from Georgia all of the time, especially without having the
Speaker 1: consistent speed and playmaking outside. And so I just think
Speaker 1: Michigan may just be built via their pass rush, via
Speaker 1: the creativity of this offense, and even without Ronnie Bell.
Speaker 1: I'm curious about, like, what would your case be for
Speaker 1: the under? Just that the quarter you know, Cad mcnamaraanstats
Speaker 1: and bended are underwhelming. What's the case for the under
Speaker 1: of forty five so that we get like a twenty
Speaker 1: three to twenty game or something like that.
Speaker 2: The case for the under is that, frankly, both defenses
Speaker 2: overpower the opposing rules. Yeah, Michigan's defense is able to
Speaker 2: confuse and curtail and keep down the Georgia offense, which
Speaker 2: by the way, is entirely plausible. Entirely plausible. Georgie's offense
Speaker 2: against good defense. This is not something we've seen a
Speaker 2: whole lot of this season, So I think that for sure.
Speaker 2: And then on the flip side, George's defense. We know
Speaker 2: all about the George defense, been singing its praises all year.
Speaker 2: Can they stop what Michigan wants to do, which is
Speaker 2: run the ball forty times?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: And so if this turns into a rock fight between
Speaker 2: Stetson Bennett and Cade McNamara, yeah, I feel pretty good
Speaker 2: about that under. I would track towards the under if
Speaker 2: I were actually betting. I'm not good at over under,
Speaker 2: so maybe don't take my word for it. But at
Speaker 2: forty five points in a game where both teams are
Speaker 2: probably terrified.
Speaker 1: Of making the big mistake, yeah, totally can see the under. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things also where I mean,
Speaker 1: what was the largest number of points a team scored
Speaker 1: against Georgia. Was it Tennessee, was it Kentucky? There wasn't
Speaker 1: a lot of points scored against this defense before Alabama.
Speaker 1: It was seventeen points. That's yeah, that's not many points
Speaker 1: if you're looking to cover an over.
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Speaker 2: Gambling problem call one eight one hundred gambler. Back to
Speaker 2: the coaching circuit, Dan, talk to me about Florida, m.
Speaker 1: Florida's fascinating. Florida's fascinating. The case for billion Apier is
Speaker 1: he has major experience programs, major experience, program experience, major
Speaker 1: program experience. That's English, right. He has the experience, he
Speaker 1: has experience winning, he has experienced as a head coach.
Speaker 1: He comes in with obviously high expectations at Florida, given
Speaker 1: where Georgia is as a program, given where we believe
Speaker 1: the SEC East is going. You know, Kentucky has ascended
Speaker 1: to a good place. Tennessee we think is on the
Speaker 1: way up. South Carolina appears to be on the way up,
Speaker 1: and it's a you know, we'll see with Missoo, I suppose,
Speaker 1: but they're recruiting very well, and expectations at Florida are
Speaker 1: compete to win the East, compete to win the conference,
Speaker 1: and if you win the conference, it's compete in the playoff.
Speaker 1: And Billy Napier is a proven head coach who has
Speaker 1: won big games relative to the place he was at
Speaker 1: in Louisiana and won that conference, and comes in, as
Speaker 1: I suppose, by all indications, a grown up running a
Speaker 1: program that very much needs a grown up running it.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's there's definitely we'll see elements, and
Speaker 1: there's definitely, I suppose, cases against it. But in terms
Speaker 1: of his resume, in terms of his reputation, I don't
Speaker 1: know what more you would like to see from somebody
Speaker 1: coming from the G five level.
Speaker 2: He's forty two, he's familiar with the area. He's already
Speaker 2: forty one to twelve as a head coach at Louisiana,
Speaker 2: which is a good base. He's coached under both Dabo
Speaker 2: and Nick Saban, which is sort of like going to
Speaker 2: both Harvard and Yale. It was the least spectacular big hire,
Speaker 2: and I think you always feel good about Yeah, Florida, Florida.
Speaker 2: This monster job somehow flew completely under the radar. As
Speaker 2: USC and LSU and Oregon in Miami and Notre Dame,
Speaker 2: we're all doing their thing and just it worked into
Speaker 2: a frenzy. This was a very unspectacular hire. And what
Speaker 2: I like about it is there's no stick is there,
Speaker 2: there's no show. He's an adult. His teams were rock solid,
Speaker 2: and they were always good, and they were at a
Speaker 2: clear talent disadvantage when they played some teams from the
Speaker 2: Power five, but they were always competitive. And they played
Speaker 2: Iowa State beat I twelve runner up Iowa State. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so this is just a guy who knows how
Speaker 2: to coach really good football and he does it the
Speaker 2: right way. And he's going to have his work cut
Speaker 2: out for him now because he's not playing Louisiana competition.
Speaker 2: He's playing the SEC East. That's really my only case
Speaker 2: against I like the billiy Napier higher. We brought Bruce
Speaker 2: Felman on the program, you know a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: months ago now, and it seemed as if the Napier
Speaker 2: High was sort of a no brainer to Florida. Everyone
Speaker 2: wanted to move, he wanted it. It happened very quickly.
Speaker 2: The case against, I think, is that it's the SEC East, and.
Speaker 1: The SEC East has.
Speaker 2: Gotten demonstrably tougher in the last year and a half.
Speaker 2: Even if you win all the games you're quote unquote
Speaker 2: supposed to, that's like a ten and two season. Dan
Speaker 2: Mullen did that twice. Dan Mullen went to three New
Speaker 2: Year six Bowl games.
Speaker 1: They canned him the first time. He didn't go to one.
Speaker 2: Now I get that there are extenuating circumstances, and we
Speaker 2: could talk about.
Speaker 1: The mollenisms if we want to.
Speaker 2: But the bar is much much higher at Florida than
Speaker 2: it is at a place like Louisiana. That side of
Speaker 2: the conference is getting more difficult. New teams are coming
Speaker 2: into the conference, which is going to make it even
Speaker 2: more difficult than it's been over the last decade plus,
Speaker 2: and so we just have not seen Napier coach on
Speaker 2: this level. That's not necessarily a reason why it won't.
Speaker 2: It's a reason why it might not. But I feel
Speaker 2: really good about the higher. I just I question about
Speaker 2: him running a job this big, an operation.
Speaker 1: This huge. Also, if you look at programs with the
Speaker 1: expectations of a Florida, a University of Florida Gators, which
Speaker 1: programs across the nation have succeeded on that level hiring
Speaker 1: from a group of five school, a head coach from
Speaker 1: the group of five now Chris Peterson Washington took them
Speaker 1: to the playoff. Ultimately long term didn't work out. But
Speaker 1: who else, Right, It's a lot of internal hires, It's
Speaker 1: a lot of coordinators from huge places. In the case
Speaker 1: of Michigan this year, it was Jim Harbaugh at Stanford,
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh with the forty nine ers, Jim Harbaugh at Michigan.
Speaker 1: And so that leap is not always the most successful
Speaker 1: one at a major place. Maybe I'm not thinking of one,
Speaker 1: but in terms of track record of winning major conference
Speaker 1: getting to the playoff, who is there? Is there another
Speaker 1: name across the country? We are like this guy worked
Speaker 1: at a G five place and is now killing it
Speaker 1: at a huge job at a you know, a power
Speaker 1: five school. Maybe I'm missing it, but you know, if
Speaker 1: it's I guess Lane Kiffin at FAU. If that's the goal.
Speaker 1: But Lane Kiffin obviously had a lot of major head
Speaker 1: coaching experience at you know, Tennessee briefly and USC. So
Speaker 1: where where is the track record? Necessarily? That's what I'm
Speaker 1: curious about. It doesn't mean he can't do it, It
Speaker 1: just means it hasn't been done a ton.
Speaker 2: I think the burning question for me is, you know,
Speaker 2: as we alluded here, Florida made them move away from
Speaker 2: Dan Mullen for a number of reasons, notably because of
Speaker 2: concerns in the recruiting operation. Right also he basically lost
Speaker 2: the team, which that happens, you're pretty much dead, doesn't
Speaker 2: matter what you did. But can Napier build that type
Speaker 2: of operation on the recruiting trail that's going to rival Georgia,
Speaker 2: that's going to rival even South Carolina. South Carolina is
Speaker 2: bringing in Spencer Rattler. I mean, they're all up in
Speaker 2: their game.
Speaker 1: In the SEC.
Speaker 2: Tennessee is doing a good job, Kentucky is doing a
Speaker 2: good job. Like this is a side of the conference
Speaker 2: that has gotten a lot lot better very quickly. Can
Speaker 2: he build an operation that's going to rival the competition
Speaker 2: on the side of on that side of the conference
Speaker 2: and in the short term and still more discipline on
Speaker 2: the roster because these guys did give up off for Yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't want to be there.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious. I'm very curious to see what he
Speaker 1: can do on that front. On the recruiting trail, Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: how good is he at rebooting the Florida brand after
Speaker 1: it suffered both in terms of the on field product
Speaker 1: and on the recruiting trail also just an open question
Speaker 1: and not necessarily why he won't succeed. But now in
Speaker 1: his state at Miami is one of the best five
Speaker 1: recruiters in the nation that they're competing against for in
Speaker 1: state kids, which is not always the case when you
Speaker 1: look at some previous Miami head coaches. Not that Miami
Speaker 1: hasn't recruited well, but now that's going to be what
Speaker 1: we presume to be an in state machine, unlike you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the height of Florida state for sure under Jimbo was.
Speaker 1: But that's definitely a new challenge. I would say for Florida,
Speaker 1: why don't we go there? Next, it's a pro segue.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Mario Christobal, Mario crystal Ball for the
Speaker 2: cultured among us. Going back home to Miami, christ Ball
Speaker 2: played their offensive line back in the heyday for Miami
Speaker 2: football is Miami guy. He knows what the U is
Speaker 2: all about. He is an ace recruiter. He is a
Speaker 2: very good coach. There is a lot to like about
Speaker 2: the Crystal Ball situation. Those are the reasons why it
Speaker 2: will work. I have more reasons why I don't think
Speaker 2: it will. I have other burning questions, but outside of
Speaker 2: the recruiting, outside of his familiarity with that part of
Speaker 2: the country, with this part of college football, give me
Speaker 2: some other reasons why it'll work.
Speaker 1: Remind me who played in the ACC championship game this year.
Speaker 1: That's a reason it'll work. If you have to merely
Speaker 1: be better than pitt and Wake Forest to win the
Speaker 1: conference as it stands now, I understand Clemson is in
Speaker 1: this conference. I understand Florida State and a potentially improved,
Speaker 1: revised Florida State is in this conference. I understand North
Speaker 1: Carolina and the way they've recruited, and the way that
Speaker 1: the best of North Carolina is is in this conference.
Speaker 1: In NC State. There are cases to be made for
Speaker 1: several programs, but the two that broke through are Pittenway
Speaker 1: Forest so merely being talented and winning games and more
Speaker 1: talented than everybody maybe save for Clemson of in two
Speaker 1: three years or whatever. Should be enough for Miami to
Speaker 1: win a ton of games. And they have a quarterback,
Speaker 1: you know, Mario christaball inheriting the quarterback has been a
Speaker 1: thing already and he's won conferences with that inherited quarterback.
Speaker 1: We like Tyler van dim a considerable amounts. That's a
Speaker 1: great starting point. When you have quarterback and recruiting, you
Speaker 1: can go a long ways. And Mario Cristobal has apparently
Speaker 1: had the resources added to the program that he felt
Speaker 1: were necessary for Miami to compete with the best of
Speaker 1: the best nationally. We'll see if it works out. We'll
Speaker 1: see if it's an actual long term dedication. But everything
Speaker 1: is in place for Miami to win a ton of
Speaker 1: games with a ton of really good players. The situation's
Speaker 1: a mess. It's a mess.
Speaker 2: And I know that you got this infusion of cash
Speaker 2: now into the athletic program, and that's why they went
Speaker 2: out and they poached Mario as well as Dan Radakaevich
Speaker 2: brought him over from Clemson to be the athletic director.
Speaker 2: There's talk about building stadiums on campus and upgrading facilities
Speaker 2: and just as he said, putting all the things in
Speaker 2: place that they feel they need to revive the program.
Speaker 2: That's all great, but that stuff does not happen overnight. Dan,
Speaker 2: If we're gonna I think Mario knows that, but yeah,
Speaker 2: he knows it.
Speaker 1: Do Miami people know it?
Speaker 2: Because if we're gonna dunk on USC for going after
Speaker 2: all the USC guys, the same should hold true here.
Speaker 2: Miami has been a program that has arguably been much
Speaker 2: worse at following that same playbook over the last decade.
Speaker 2: And so we can talk a great game about all
Speaker 2: these things that they're gonna to fix the program, but
Speaker 2: really what I question is what is the definition of
Speaker 2: success here? How are we going to score? How Mario
Speaker 2: crystal ball does? As I understand it, Over the last decade,
Speaker 2: there have really been two measures for head football coach
Speaker 2: at Miami. Number one, are you Miami enough for the job?
Speaker 2: You know, like this this purity test, this purity test
Speaker 2: that's sort of a pre wreck for the job, And
Speaker 2: it was, oh, well, Manny Diaz is from here.
Speaker 1: But he's not Mario who played here. Oh okay.
Speaker 2: And then once you're in too, are you winning national championships?
Speaker 2: There has to be some middle ground, like maybe we
Speaker 2: start with getting to the ACC title game. Maybe we
Speaker 2: start there, or maybe we get the ten wins to
Speaker 2: a better bowl game or something of the sort. But
Speaker 2: there has to be some middle ground that we can
Speaker 2: grade Crystal Ball on something of a curve, somewhere between
Speaker 2: being here and playing here and being beloved here and
Speaker 2: winning national championships. We need some dose of realism here
Speaker 2: in this program. So all the good stuff is, let's
Speaker 2: build the stadium on campus, Let's get the athletic department
Speaker 2: in order, let's spend more money on the football program.
Speaker 1: Let's get there. But in the interim, the.
Speaker 2: Program is still sort of a mess, and we need
Speaker 2: to rebalance expectations a bit because he's not going to
Speaker 2: win a national championship that quickly.
Speaker 1: Not saying you won't do it.
Speaker 2: He's a good coach, but it's going to take a
Speaker 2: while to get there, to get to the ACC title game,
Speaker 2: to do these interim things that need to happen first.
Speaker 2: And so for me, why won't it happen? A? The
Speaker 2: situation's a mess, and B what is the definition for success?
Speaker 2: That's my burning question. I want to know how are
Speaker 2: we grading Mario crystal ball, and what are Miami fans
Speaker 2: saying after year one, if he goes eight and four.
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite Miami ACC championship? There have been, Sonny,
Speaker 1: we have it there. It's so hard to pick. Miami's
Speaker 1: not an ACC championship program. I mean, that's the reality
Speaker 1: in which we live. Maybe that changes, but we have
Speaker 1: a lot of data to suggest that Miami as an institution,
Speaker 1: which is what Bill c Is quickly quick to point
Speaker 1: out is sometimes you don't blame coaches, you blame places.
Speaker 1: There are reasons places can't win, and Miami doesn't fully
Speaker 1: reflect USC. But there are some faint whiffs of USC
Speaker 1: hiring a Miami guy, big city, big expectations to get
Speaker 1: back to pass glory without actually doing what it takes
Speaker 1: to win, you know, the step before that or the
Speaker 1: three steps before that.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk tie, there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of walk so far. Right, So I'm just talking about
Speaker 1: the last twenty years, not necessarily Mario Cristobal's tenure. That's
Speaker 1: the issue to me, that there's gonna be a crazy
Speaker 1: amount of pressure on Mario Cristobal because of his status
Speaker 1: as an alumnus and you know, player for the Kaynes
Speaker 1: and also Miami is just not a conference championship program.
Speaker 1: It's just not. Again, it can change, but sometimes we
Speaker 1: are who we are at a certain point and can change.
Speaker 1: But there are reasons why Miami hasn't been there. And
Speaker 1: so this is it's not like I was like a booster, Right,
Speaker 1: there's a billionaire booster who was like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: tear down a middle school and build a stadium, and
Speaker 1: it just didn't happen. Right, it just is not happening.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen blueprints, I haven't seen bulldozers. So it's
Speaker 1: it's a program built around talk and not necessarily built
Speaker 1: around walk. Maybe it changes, but again, sometimes we just
Speaker 1: are who we are.
Speaker 2: The swagger baby got to bring the swagger back since
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: Okay, by the way, the open question, the open question
Speaker 1: to me is offense and offensive coordinator and what the
Speaker 1: vision is going to look like that's different than what
Speaker 1: really did hold Oregon back. Yeah, that's the question for
Speaker 1: me with Miami. Not necessarily can he get them back
Speaker 1: to glory or whatever, but the actual in the next
Speaker 1: two years question is how is it different than what
Speaker 1: held Oregon back? And yet to see.
Speaker 2: All right, let's go on up to the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2: Let's pull in this thread a little bit more crystal
Speaker 2: ball bolts. He goes back home to Miami, Dan Lanning.
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning is your new head football coach at Oregon.
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning gonna be calling the plays for Georgia as
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator in the playoff game against Michigan, so we'll
Speaker 2: get one final look at him. I guess, I guess
Speaker 2: if they go to the National Championship, he'd call him again.
Speaker 1: But we'll see. I mean, he could always be Lane
Speaker 1: kiffined right where you're just like, I don't dig your
Speaker 1: head's here, bye bye. Between those two games, who knows.
Speaker 2: We'll have to wait and see what happens if they
Speaker 2: end up winning. But for the time being, anyway, we'll
Speaker 2: see more of him and his work at Georgia. He
Speaker 2: is young, he is charismatic, He is an awesome recruiter.
Speaker 2: He has no familiarity with the Pacific Northwest. He's a
Speaker 2: first time head football coach. He's gonna be put in
Speaker 2: charge of this big operation. Where are we at on,
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning?
Speaker 1: Why will it work? Why won't it work? And what's
Speaker 1: your biggest question. Uh, it will work because of his
Speaker 1: reputation connecting with kids and recruits and people within the program,
Speaker 1: and his reputation, his energy, given his age. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody is you know, wants the next Sean McVay, right,
Speaker 1: everybody wants the next Who's is the Packers coach? Could?
Speaker 1: I don't know the names of these young coaches in
Speaker 1: the NFL, but everybody is like seduced by that or
Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley or whatever, that young hot shot coach. And
Speaker 1: he comes. He's on the defensive side. He's not like
Speaker 1: an an offensive wounder kind as that's a German thing, right,
Speaker 1: wunderk oh yeah, yeah yeah. And he's recruiting his tailoff
Speaker 1: at Georgia and building a recruiting monster at Oregon with
Speaker 1: his staff hires, with hiring Texas A and M and
Speaker 1: previously Georgia's you know, I forget the exact title, but
Speaker 1: it's the the the chief personnel type guy, the director
Speaker 1: of whatever, Marshall Malchow, malt I don't know how to
Speaker 1: pronounce it. So there is an entire focus on, you know,
Speaker 1: recruiting and bringing in consistent top eight national classes, which
Speaker 1: is what Mario Christobal was basically able to do. And
Speaker 1: so talent plus conference plus energy plus hopefully a rethought
Speaker 1: of offense that really struggled, and a new person to
Speaker 1: try to evaluate and develop quarterbacks and the quarterbacks existing
Speaker 1: and the roster that exists, which is arguably the deepest
Speaker 1: and best roster depending on who actually comes back. There's
Speaker 1: a lot to like about where Dan Lanning's Oregon potential is.
Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about this with a
Speaker 2: first time head coach, sure going to a part of
Speaker 2: the country that he's not terribly familiar with. My questions
Speaker 2: are around staff and staves. Staves what kind of support
Speaker 2: net will be put around Dan Lanning. Everybody loves Dan
Speaker 2: Lanning like you won't talk to anybody who doesn't think
Speaker 2: this is a good hire, especially as late in the
Speaker 2: game as it came together. This is about as good
Speaker 2: as Orgon was going to do. So you know, if
Speaker 2: you believe the people who are closest to whom who
Speaker 2: have worked with him, everybody is very bullish on this move.
Speaker 2: But there are a lot of questions. It is not
Speaker 2: a Marcus Freeman situation, which we can talk about next.
Speaker 1: Now he's been on the staff.
Speaker 2: He's not a promotion from within like this is uprooting
Speaker 2: and going three thousand miles the opposite direction totally, and
Speaker 2: so I question it from that standpoint. Doesn't mean it
Speaker 2: can't work. But in terms of this little goofy game
Speaker 2: we're playing, I would say there's no familiarity with the region.
Speaker 2: He's a first time head coach. It's a lot of
Speaker 2: upheaval and then being put in charge of this huge operation.
Speaker 2: Oregon obviously is sort of the crown jewel at the
Speaker 2: moment of the PAC twelve North, maybe the PAC twelve
Speaker 2: as a whole. That's a lot of pressure for a
Speaker 2: first time Totally.
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think look the lack of
Speaker 1: experience and going to a big place, just like we've
Speaker 1: talked about with other coaches in this coaching search that
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it was Brent Venables, who's certainly
Speaker 1: older and more experienced and has been around more big
Speaker 1: programs with bigger roles at big programs. So it's not
Speaker 1: a direct apples to apples analogy, but you're totally right.
Speaker 1: It's him putting a staff together for the first time,
Speaker 1: him putting together a you know, a recruiting department and
Speaker 1: personnel department and dealing with the ins and outs of
Speaker 1: daily college football bossing. That I think is a huge question.
Speaker 1: And you know, he trained under one of the best
Speaker 1: with Kirby Smart and before that, Mike Norvell at Memphis.
Speaker 1: It's it's a wide gaping question of what does Dan
Speaker 1: Lanning look like as a younger guy tasked with taking
Speaker 1: over a major program that has won on big levels.
Speaker 1: And I guess the open question is again it's right now,
Speaker 1: it's quarterback. Why he won't is what I just laid out.
Speaker 1: What the open question is quarterback and offense and Kenny
Speaker 1: Dillingham and you know what does this look like? What
Speaker 1: is the vision for an offense like we mentioned with
Speaker 1: Bret Venables as a defensive minded guy. All right, let's
Speaker 1: close it out here.
Speaker 2: Well, there are a bunch of coaches that we can
Speaker 2: talk about.
Speaker 1: We can do a bunch of quick hitters. We can
Speaker 1: do a bunch of quick hitters.
Speaker 2: But we do have to close it out with a
Speaker 2: little bit more detail about the Notre Dame thing and
Speaker 2: Marcus Streamer. It is a quick hitter to me, Marcus Freeman,
Speaker 2: Marcus Screaman promoted from within. He is young, he is charismatic,
Speaker 2: He's a hell of a recruiter, and I believe that
Speaker 2: for Notre Dame to get to that next gear, they
Speaker 2: need and even stronger focus on recruiting if they want
Speaker 2: to continue raising the floor. It's just where they have
Speaker 2: to go next. I give them credit for recognizing that
Speaker 2: this is the guy who seemingly can help them do that.
Speaker 1: It's a huge.
Speaker 2: Shift for Notre Dame in a very brief period of time.
Speaker 2: They have gone from the older guy and Brian Kelly
Speaker 2: at the top of this thing, kind of a legacy
Speaker 2: coach has been there for a decade plus to this
Speaker 2: young up start. Frankly, it's been a huge brand revival
Speaker 2: in a matter of days and weeks, turning things over
Speaker 2: from Brian Kelly who was still successful and was still
Speaker 2: getting recruits to a thirty five year old Marcus Freeman
Speaker 2: and a twenty nine year old Tommy Reese.
Speaker 1: We'll see if it works. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm hopeful, but that's a lot of brand revival in
Speaker 2: a very short period of time. Marcus Freeman is going
Speaker 2: to give them that. He's going to give them I
Speaker 2: think a degree of continuity as well, because not only
Speaker 2: is he staying on staff, but a bunch of the
Speaker 2: heavy hitters outside of Reese are also going to be there.
Speaker 2: So even though Freeman is new at the top, functionally speaking,
Speaker 2: it may not be all that different, which is a
Speaker 2: good spot if you're Marcus Freeman. As for why it
Speaker 2: won't work, tell me why you think.
Speaker 1: If he's young, he's inexperienced. He's taking over a major
Speaker 1: program with huge expectations at a unique place. And what
Speaker 1: does quarterback look like moving forward? What is you know,
Speaker 1: what is different? I mean that's an open question. I
Speaker 1: guess what is the quarterback? What is the offensive vision
Speaker 1: for this Notre Dame team without Brian Kelly. But this
Speaker 1: is a this is a place that largely hires not older,
Speaker 1: but more experienced head coaches who can deal with the intricacy,
Speaker 1: intricacies and unique challenges of Notre Dame from a more
Speaker 1: grizzled perspective, perhaps especially the guys who have succeeded. And
Speaker 1: Marcus Freeman isn't that. Marcus Freeman just isn't that. He's
Speaker 1: also relatively new. He's eleven months, twelve months in South Bend,
Speaker 1: and so while he is internal, he's not long time
Speaker 1: Notre Dame defensive coordinator, and so that's just going to
Speaker 1: be new. That's it's just going to be new for him.
Speaker 1: Uh with uh with the unique challenges of Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: with you know, the academic requirements, and I think he'll
Speaker 1: recruit well, I really do. I believe it might even
Speaker 1: you know, go up a notch consistently. But it's that
Speaker 1: day to day. It's the dealing with players who want
Speaker 1: to transfer, it's dealing with parents, it's dealing with administrators
Speaker 1: that he's never done. And same can be said for
Speaker 1: Dan Lanning for sure. But yeah, it's it's the unique
Speaker 1: difficulties of taking over a major program without having spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time there. You know, Mario Christapaul did
Speaker 1: that Orgon he was only there for a year with
Speaker 1: Willie Taggert. So I, you know, I think it can
Speaker 1: be done. I'm more optimistic than I am concerned. But
Speaker 1: you know, young guy Green, I think that's the case.
Speaker 2: First time head coaches have not done well at Notre Dame.
Speaker 1: No, there's not.
Speaker 2: There's not a whole lot of success. The point to
Speaker 2: each situation is different, but they just they haven't. They
Speaker 2: haven't been successful, and it is a unique place. It's
Speaker 2: a tough first job to get, for sure. I think
Speaker 2: he's equipped well to handle it. He certainly seems capable.
Speaker 2: People love him, the players love him. But if we're
Speaker 2: being objective about this, you have to point out that
Speaker 2: this is a different kind of job that has not
Speaker 2: always had a whole lot of success for first timers.
Speaker 1: So why won't it work? We've got a track record
Speaker 1: on that side. What's the status of his staff.
Speaker 2: Hiring unclear at this point. The open question at the
Speaker 2: moment is on defense and what that looks like moving forward. Sure,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm looking most forward to finding out more about.
Speaker 2: I've got a couple burning questions about this. Oh okay
Speaker 2: hit most notably at his presser, he talked about how
Speaker 2: he wants to enhance. Use the word enhance a lot, enhance,
Speaker 2: enhance enhance. Pete Sampson, our friend who was on the podcast,
Speaker 2: he asked of what do you mean by that, Marcus?
Speaker 2: He didn't really answer. It is probably one of those
Speaker 2: things like you and I when we just sort of
Speaker 2: talk ourselves into a corner and then you're stuck with
Speaker 2: it on the record.
Speaker 1: You know, I hope he enhances.
Speaker 2: That'd be great but I think it was probably something
Speaker 2: you said to be non controversial, and he doesn't have
Speaker 2: any specifics around that. For the short term, for me,
Speaker 2: it's can you go to Ohio State in week one
Speaker 2: and be competitive next year?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And longer term, can you develop a quarterback? This is
Speaker 2: a defensive guy. Can you develop a quarterback? I don't know.
Speaker 1: So definitely a ton of burning questions about Marcus Freeman,
Speaker 1: but reasonable we could talk about those in due time.
Speaker 1: Let's do some quick hitters though. All right, kitters, give me,
Speaker 1: give me some quick hitters that you're interested in. What
Speaker 1: jobs out there did we not talk about that we
Speaker 1: owe a little bit more attention to. I mean, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of them. But you know, Jeff Tedford
Speaker 1: at Fresno State, you know, can he hire and win
Speaker 1: like he was able to do before when kaylind Wore
Speaker 1: was on staff Jane Norvel, like Colorado State, there were
Speaker 1: some open questions about their consistency and especially on defense,
Speaker 1: and he's bringing over a lot of guys. He knows.
Speaker 1: Ken Wilson at Nevada, you know, coming over from Oregon
Speaker 1: as a linebackers coach, very familiar with that program, and
Speaker 1: so can he rebuild that defense. Can he evaluate and
Speaker 1: find kids because he's a really well thought of coach
Speaker 1: and was at Oregon both from the recruiting perspective and
Speaker 1: from a coaching perspective, And so what does that look
Speaker 1: like at a place that you can win and is
Speaker 1: not terribly far from talent. I'm trying to think, what
Speaker 1: you know, Joe Morehead's going to accurate? I think is fascinating.
Speaker 1: Can he get them back to a bowlish program? It's
Speaker 1: much closer to where he's from in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean area, and there are other Power five
Speaker 2: jobs too, right, TCU and Sunny Dikes. Sonny Dikes is
Speaker 2: from the area. He knows it well.
Speaker 1: But can he play defense? Yeah, it's defense and quarterback.
Speaker 1: That's It's the name of the game. And what does
Speaker 1: the recruiting operation look like in a pretty fertile part
Speaker 1: of the country. His staff is I don't believe complete,
Speaker 1: but has a couple of couple of interesting guys. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's defensive quarterback. It's always been a fall around Sunny
Speaker 1: Dyke's Yeah.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Tech Texas Tech isn't in all
Speaker 2: that dissimilar situation, but they've got this huge infusion of
Speaker 2: enthusiasm now with Joey McGuire, successful high school football coach
Speaker 2: who has taken over was at Baylor for a little bit.
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of steam so far on that program.
Speaker 2: People are very excited about him taking over.
Speaker 1: With Kiley by the Way from Western Kentucky as his
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator. I think exactly so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they'll put points on the board. I
Speaker 2: think it's a very fascinating program to follow. But another
Speaker 2: first timer taking over a big job in Texas Virginia Tech,
Speaker 2: to me is very interesting. I like Brent Prye a lot.
Speaker 2: He's familiar with the region, he's a good recruiter. I
Speaker 2: think he will build a good defense. What I do
Speaker 2: have questions about, though, is he's a first timer and
Speaker 2: he's hiring two thirty two year old coordinators. Tyler Bowen
Speaker 2: who comes up. You worked with Tyler Bowen for a
Speaker 2: couple of years at Penn State. Tyler Bowen's been the
Speaker 2: tight ends coach at Jacksonville and Chris marv who was
Speaker 2: I think a linebackers coach at Florida State. So first
Speaker 2: time head coach, two first time coordinators. Not to say
Speaker 2: it won't work, but talk about playing without a net, right,
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's about as high stakes as you're going
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I'm not really bringing back a ton
Speaker 1: on either side of the ball that you're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is the core of a ten win program, especially
Speaker 1: on offense. So that to me is a question with
Speaker 1: him Tony Elliott. At Virginia a place that put up
Speaker 1: monster numbers, it's who can they convince to come back?
Speaker 1: I saw they just lost an offensive lineman officially to Michigan,
Speaker 1: I think their center. So it's who can Virginia bring
Speaker 1: back from this offense? And what does he do in
Speaker 1: terms of fully, you know, going after a defensive coordinator
Speaker 1: and a defensive staff who can both recruit and coach
Speaker 1: their asses off because this Virginia defense was a nightmare
Speaker 1: in terms of production. So a lot of acc questions.
Speaker 1: I don't know who I like, Mike Elcho at Duke.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a matter of rebooting and having
Speaker 1: a vision. After being around so long and in a
Speaker 1: lot of major programs, you know, going from Wake to
Speaker 1: Notre Dame to Texas A and m you know, Duke
Speaker 1: has a ways forward.
Speaker 2: I want to know why he took that job in
Speaker 2: the first place.
Speaker 1: It's a good question. It's an opportunity, it's a it's
Speaker 1: good school, good part of the country to live in.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. That's tough. That's tough.
Speaker 1: If he just wanted that shot, if he was just
Speaker 1: sick of calling and running a defense and Duke, you know,
Speaker 1: if you turn Duke into back into a bowl team,
Speaker 1: you can get a bigger job, right. So yes, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. It's a springboard. But if
Speaker 1: he wasn't getting those sort of big twelve sec footprint
Speaker 1: type looks, then you know, he just felt it was
Speaker 1: time and he felt confident enough that he could build
Speaker 1: a good enough defense. He built a good defense at
Speaker 1: Wake Forest. You know, they're difficult places to win, and
Speaker 1: Duke is one of them. And so he has that
Speaker 1: experience in that part of the country. We'll see other jobs,
Speaker 1: other openings, other higher you know, Don Brown at UMass
Speaker 1: familiarity certainly there with what he did at UMSS when
Speaker 1: they were an FCS school. Who else Jake Dicker at
Speaker 1: Wazoo Oh Wazoo. Yeah, I think that's fascinating because he
Speaker 1: is he has looked at some lower levels for his
Speaker 1: assistant hires, which has been fascinating. He has what we
Speaker 1: think is a quarterback of the future. There's some talent
Speaker 1: on that defense, there's familiarity with an internal hire of
Speaker 1: a program younger and without the you know, years experience
Speaker 1: as a head coach. But I think the players really
Speaker 1: liked playing for him and playing hard for him. The
Speaker 1: open question is what does that system look like? What
Speaker 1: is on both sides of the ball that you become,
Speaker 1: at the very least a pain in the ass for
Speaker 1: everybody in the PAC twelve? Yeah, yeah, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, please do right in and let us know
Speaker 2: your thoughts on Clay Helton Georgia Southern, Clay Helton Georgia Southern,
Speaker 2: or Joey Maguire Texas Tech or Mario to Miami or
Speaker 2: Marcus Freeman a notre dame or billion aper, Brent vannibles
Speaker 2: Lincoln Riley. Tell me again how to pronounce the Louisiana
Speaker 2: higher Desorma like the jockey disorma, Kent desormo. I think
Speaker 2: Kent Disarmo, Kentucky Derby or something.
Speaker 1: I love the last name. I love the internal hire,
Speaker 1: I love the enthusiasm.
Speaker 2: I'm good with that hire. Write in let us know
Speaker 2: your thoughts. Solid Verbal at gmail dot com. Don't forget
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Speaker 2: in the hat hat yeaing to win that signed Desmond
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Speaker 2: of the National Championship in.
Speaker 1: That's all I got.
Speaker 2: That's all I have for that guy all the way
Speaker 2: over there, and beautiful sunny southern California for myself, Ty
Speaker 2: Hildebrand back to East.
Speaker 1: Thanks again for downloading, for listening to playing along at home.
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Speaker 1: Stay solid, peace,