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Speaker 1: Hey, March is tripod month, my friend, and you know

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Speaker 1: what that means. Yes, that means it's time to let

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Speaker 1: people know about your favorite podcasts, just to share the

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Speaker 1: sheer joy of podcast listening. That's right, it's t r

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Speaker 1: y pod still in nascent industry. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't know what podcasts are and helps everybody out if

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Speaker 1: you would go out and just say, hey, family member,

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Speaker 1: who I see it? Thanksgiving once a year? Right, you

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Speaker 1: should try out this thing called a podcast. Here's what

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Speaker 1: they are. Here's a cool show you should try, and

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Speaker 1: here's how to get it. Yeah, and it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be our show, just any podcast you like in

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Speaker 1: general that you think someone else would like to share it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So get on board the dry pod train. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know from how stuff works dot com. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Sitting across

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Speaker 1: from me is Charles W. Chuck Bryant look so sharp today, dude,

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Speaker 1: wrapped in wrapped in my herring bone linen. I thought

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Speaker 1: that was an Infinity scarf. You're wearing it like an

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Speaker 1: Infinity scarf. That's the second Infinity scarf joke you've made,

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Speaker 1: although one was live on stage where you, uh, well,

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Speaker 1: immediate at you accidentally made fun of the lady there

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Speaker 1: on the first Yeah, some lady was like, well, what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with the infinity scarves? And I looked over and

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Speaker 1: lo and behold she was wearing an infinity scarf. Backpedal

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Speaker 1: from that pretty fast. I don't get why what is

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Speaker 1: it called an infinity scarf because it looks as if

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Speaker 1: it never ends. I think it's a scarf that is

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Speaker 1: sewn together. It's like a ring. Okay, that's all. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's not a good name for it for not a

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Speaker 1: great invention, like an infinity pool that never ends, like

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Speaker 1: you can swim and swim forever. It looks as if

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Speaker 1: I just call him rich person. Pools. Yeah, not like

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Speaker 1: my above ground pool in the back the rust nator. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the hick right next to the trampoline. Yeah, alright, I

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Speaker 1: think we've insulted enough people. Well that was a Simpsons reference.

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Speaker 1: Technically they insult and the hick um, Yes we did anyway,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk Shroud of turin Chuck, are you familiar?

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Speaker 1: What made you pick this the easter? No, it's just timing.

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Speaker 1: Although heck, that's great timing. Huh. Seriously, it wasn't it was.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I was listening to an episode of

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Speaker 1: w TF with Mark Marin and he it's an older episode.

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Speaker 1: All of our ideas from Mark man I'm growing in

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Speaker 1: a stache. Well I've grown it. I'm just gonna shave

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Speaker 1: the beard. Uh. He was interviewing William Friedkin, the director,

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Speaker 1: and uh who. As it turns out, it's quite chatty.

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Speaker 1: Did he not stop talking the whole time? He talked

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Speaker 1: a lot. It was a really good interview. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what you want out of an interviewee, yeah, sure, um.

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Speaker 1: But he saw all the shroud of turn in person,

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Speaker 1: and he described the experience and I thought, why haven't

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Speaker 1: we done one on that? That's pretty important. What was

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Speaker 1: his reaction to it? He he wept. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: actually something that's called Jerusalem syndrome. Yeah. He he was

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Speaker 1: incredibly move and he's not especially well. He talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about Jesus specifically, but said that he's not religious,

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Speaker 1: but he really has a thing for Jesus. But but

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Speaker 1: he doesn't identify as a Christian, but he really he

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Speaker 1: just is a big fan of Jesus. Jesus file Sure,

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Speaker 1: which is you know a lot of people like that.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, there's even um Messianic Jews Jews for

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Speaker 1: Jesus uh and apparently William Freed Kent I mean bio

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Speaker 1: because of the two categories Bill accounts Jesus the historical figure.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty stand up guy. Sure, you know, sure? And

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Speaker 1: I think, well, let's just stop dancing around this. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're not a really just podcast. We're not. Every time

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Speaker 1: we've ever done in religious episode, we've gotten so much

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Speaker 1: blowback from every single thing we've gotten wrong that we're like,

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Speaker 1: our structure is not really set up to two podcasts

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Speaker 1: on religion very much. The Shroud of Turn is such

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Speaker 1: an interesting and contentious flash point where science and religion

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Speaker 1: meet and butt heads that we just couldn't possibly pretend

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Speaker 1: like it doesn't exist. It's too interesting. And I can

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Speaker 1: imagine that William Freakin wept when he saw the Shroud

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Speaker 1: of Turn. I would love to see the Shout of

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Speaker 1: Turn myself. Um, I don't. I have no idea what

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Speaker 1: my reaction would be, but I wouldn't be all that

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Speaker 1: surprised if I did weep when I saw it. Whatever

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Speaker 1: the Shout of Turn is, it is probably the most

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Speaker 1: venerated object in the world. Yeah, perhaps it's at least

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Speaker 1: among the top two or three. Take of me that, um,

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Speaker 1: and the idea that so many people look at this

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Speaker 1: thing with love and awe and amazement, that it's somehow

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Speaker 1: abuse it with the very stuff that they that it's

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Speaker 1: venerated for in some weird way. And I can imagine

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Speaker 1: that even as an atheist you would get hit by that. Well,

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Speaker 1: be to me like looking at a at a great

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Speaker 1: painting or something. Um, not to say that it is

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Speaker 1: a painting, even though some people say it is a painting,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to. But you know what I'm saying, like, uh,

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Speaker 1: just moved by seeing the Mona Lisa, Yeah, or being

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Speaker 1: like I thought I was bigger than that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was a little underwhelmed. Well, but that's the same thing

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Speaker 1: that Jerusalem syndrome. Typically happens when you go to a

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Speaker 1: very holy site in your overcome, but it can also

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Speaker 1: happen when you're looking at art as well. All Right,

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Speaker 1: it is a fifty if you don't know what it

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Speaker 1: is and you're hearing's go on and on about crying

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Speaker 1: t out of Turin, it is a fifty three square

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Speaker 1: foot piece of linen rectangle. I think it's about three

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Speaker 1: ft by four ft. Yeah, and it is, like I said,

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Speaker 1: herring bone twill uh, faint brownish image that uh when

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Speaker 1: we'll get into some of the more interesting finer points.

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Speaker 1: But when photographed the negative images is a very clear

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Speaker 1: image of a man, naked man with his arms folded

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Speaker 1: over his groin area, tastefully beard, mustache, shoulder length hair

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Speaker 1: parted in the middle um. And you know, looks like

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Speaker 1: that if you grew up in the Southern Baptist church.

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Speaker 1: Looks like that picture of Jesus hanging on the wall

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Speaker 1: that I grew up with, or your friend that you

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Speaker 1: went to that three eleven show back in Uh. And

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Speaker 1: there are stains in areas on the linen consistent with

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Speaker 1: crucifixion wounds. Yes, well, which we'll get to because it's

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Speaker 1: very important. All of this is I feel like we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be teasing this out throughout. Well, let's stop. Let's

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Speaker 1: start at the very beginning of all this. Okay, if

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Speaker 1: you're a believer and that the shot of turn is

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Speaker 1: a legitimate religious artifact, that is to say that Jesus

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Speaker 1: Christ was wrapped in it after his Christ buried in

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Speaker 1: it in Jurus, and that is indeed his image when

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Speaker 1: he died. He and this is Jesus we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Still not William freaking right, He's still alive, right, is he? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: When Jesus died and was interred or in tombed, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: after three days, his apostles went and checked on him

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Speaker 1: and they found he wasn't there. He had ascended into heaven.

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Speaker 1: This just happened to be what we now celebrate as Easter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and a boy, really, this is going to come out

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Speaker 1: right around then, isn't it. Yeah? And Easter celebrates the

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Speaker 1: among Christians, the resurrection of Christ. After his death, he

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Speaker 1: dives Christified on Good Friday. He is found to be

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Speaker 1: have been resurrected up into Heaven on Easter Sunday. Jesus

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Speaker 1: wasn't there. His body was gone, but according to legend,

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Speaker 1: they found shrouds still there, his burial shroud. So the

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Speaker 1: idea is is that his burial shroud was taken out

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Speaker 1: of his tomb um and venerated from the get go

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Speaker 1: basically held on to so and moved from uh I

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Speaker 1: guess the from Jerusalem out to where did make its

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Speaker 1: second trip to believe. From there it went straight to

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Speaker 1: Turkey Constantinople and it was there for several hundred years. Right.

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Speaker 1: It was in the possession of some of the sultan's there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the Crusaders came along and said, we'll be

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Speaker 1: taking that and whatever else we want, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to move it to Athens, Greece. And it was there

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Speaker 1: um or actually I don't know if the Crusaders took it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it'll smuggle out, but crusaders sacked the town. I

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Speaker 1: saw both. Well, the history is a bit murky until

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Speaker 1: the mid fourteenth century, right, it is so. And you

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Speaker 1: would think that if the Crusaders had taken it, they

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Speaker 1: would have taken it back to Europe because that's where

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Speaker 1: they hailed from. They wouldn't have taken it down to Athens, Greece.

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Speaker 1: But supposedly it's spent several centuries between the Crusades and

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Speaker 1: about the thirteenth century in Greece, and somehow, some way

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Speaker 1: it made its way to France, right, Yeah, a French night,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is where it gets a little

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Speaker 1: more solid and it's travels. Uh. Jeffroy de Charny de

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Speaker 1: Charny Um took it to France about thirty miles outside

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Speaker 1: of Paris, and um eventually it mounted it made his

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Speaker 1: way to its final home in Turin, Italy and where

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Speaker 1: it's been there ever since. Yeah, the cathedral of St.

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Speaker 1: John the Baptist is when it landed there, and it's

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Speaker 1: still there and you can go look at I think

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Speaker 1: it went on tour for a little while within the

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Speaker 1: last few years, right with van Halen. Uh. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was on display as a part of a traveling exhibit.

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Speaker 1: Was it traveling or was it just on display? In turn? Now,

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Speaker 1: I think it traveled but sprised. But here's what I'm

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Speaker 1: going on is William Friedkin's account. So I'm not sure,

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Speaker 1: but I do know that um more people saw it

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Speaker 1: in the last like few years than ever before, ever before,

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Speaker 1: very very recent times, because apparently, um, for many centuries

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Speaker 1: it was on public display. Yeah, you just have to

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Speaker 1: go to Turin, go into that church. Uh, and they would,

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Speaker 1: you know, probably ask you a serious questions before you entered,

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Speaker 1: right and as you exited, like what kind of fish

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Speaker 1: is this? That Jesus fish? Come on back? Uh. The

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church does not have an official stand on the

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Speaker 1: authenticity of this shroud. But um, chump, uh Chope, Pope

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Speaker 1: John Paul the Chopster said, you know, we trust science

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Speaker 1: basically to keep studying this thing. Yeah. The church, um,

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Speaker 1: I think, used to have an official position on it

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Speaker 1: until I think around and they said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, we still believe that you Catholics or

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Speaker 1: Christians should venerate this thing because at the very least

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Speaker 1: it's symbolic of Christ suffering on the cross. Um. But

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna say either way. We're the Catholic Church,

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Speaker 1: thank you, good night. I think it's how and transmission.

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Speaker 1: That's how Pope Ball ended all of his speeches. Um,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's let's take a little break here. You

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Speaker 1: want to, yeah, and we'll talk a bit about the

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Speaker 1: early science the shot turn. So Chuck, we were saying, um,

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Speaker 1: the shroud. As far as the Catholics are concerned, the

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Speaker 1: shroud didn't really exist until thirteen fifty three, when Geoffrey

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Speaker 1: de Charnay came up with it. Right, So that's the

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Speaker 1: beginning of its documented existence. That the Shroud of Turn

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Speaker 1: at least goes back on the record to thirteen fifty three,

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Speaker 1: which makes it pretty awesome in and of itself, right,

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Speaker 1: And for centuries and centuries people saw it, people looked

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Speaker 1: at it. I'm sure they kissed it and wept over

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Speaker 1: it and everything. And then it wasn't until the I

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Speaker 1: think the nineteenth century or at least the twentieth century

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Speaker 1: that it was really started to move out of public

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Speaker 1: display and started to be cared for and preserved a

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Speaker 1: little more, I think. And that's when science kind of

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Speaker 1: started to come around, specifically starting in right, Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was the first. Like if you if you look at

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Speaker 1: just the regular image of the shroud of Turin, not

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Speaker 1: the negative photographic image, you know, you sort of see

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Speaker 1: an image of a person. But in like you said,

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Speaker 1: there was an amateur photographer in Italy name uh Second.

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Speaker 1: That means the second. He had an older sibling. He

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Speaker 1: took a picture. He was first though, No Primo that right.

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Speaker 1: If you're seeing Big Night, it's Stanley Tucci movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Secondo and Primo. Yeah yeah, man, I won't see that again.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it since it was out. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever heard um that fam key Jansen? You know, the actress.

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Speaker 1: Does her name mean female or girl in Danish idea?

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Speaker 1: I think it might because that means her name is girl.

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Speaker 1: Jansen that's what her parents named her. If that's what

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Speaker 1: that means, all right, Sorry, that's okay. Um. So Secundo

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Speaker 1: took this photo. Um, when he was developing it, he

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Speaker 1: saw the reverse negative and went, wow, Mama Mia. What

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Speaker 1: he saw was that much more clear image of a man,

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Speaker 1: of the likeness of a of a human being in

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Speaker 1: much more detail. He was accused of forgery, of course,

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Speaker 1: out of the gate. Uh, and I think wasn't fully

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Speaker 1: clear to like the nineteen thirties when more photographers did

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and they're like, it's just a negative image.

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Speaker 1: Let the guy up, yeah right, like this round. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this negative image really kicked off like an even

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Speaker 1: greater interest in the shroud of turn. I think up

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Speaker 1: to that point, um, people of science had just been

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Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, yeah, sure, that's exactly what it is.

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Speaker 1: It looks definitely like a burial shroud. When they saw that,

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Speaker 1: though that that negative, it's really difficult to avoid the

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Speaker 1: fact that it is clearly the image of a man

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Speaker 1: like you described at the beginning. It's not Jesus on toast, No,

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Speaker 1: it's nott or on my the wall of the house

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Speaker 1: I'm demoing from, you know, or this grilled cheese. I met. Yeah, Um, no,

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Speaker 1: it's it is, and it's universally recognized as that. It's

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Speaker 1: not like it kind of looks like this, it's that's

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Speaker 1: that's what that is, so much so that um even

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Speaker 1: skeptics say, well, then it was just a painting or

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Speaker 1: something like that by some artists. But just like that

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Speaker 1: photographed by Secondo pia Um, we've our new techniques and

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Speaker 1: tricks and software that we use as far as photography

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Speaker 1: goes and images goes, is starting to unlock even more

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Speaker 1: weirdness of it too. Right, So if you take the

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Speaker 1: um the lightness and darkness patterns and turn them into

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Speaker 1: like three dimensions, it actually reveals very clearly the three

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Speaker 1: dimensional shape of a face, which is kind of surprising

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Speaker 1: because that would mean that if we're a painting, somebody

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Speaker 1: had to have painted on a face with just the

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Speaker 1: right amount of darkness in places where that would have

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Speaker 1: been closest to the cloth, and lighter amounts in places

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Speaker 1: that would have been further away from the cloth, so

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Speaker 1: that when you did look at it in this light

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Speaker 1: gradient map, it would appear in in perfect three To mention,

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Speaker 1: it's a bizarre little thing, don't you think for sure. Uh.

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Speaker 1: As far as real study, UM, it took all the

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Speaker 1: way until almost nineteen seventy nine, sixty nine, when scientists

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Speaker 1: could finally I mean for decades people had done um

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Speaker 1: what they call indirect analysis. So basically, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at it, and I'm thinking about it and I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about it. But as far as actually getting your

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Speaker 1: hands on it, it was nineteen sixty nine when um,

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Speaker 1: like you said that they needed to preserve this thing.

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Speaker 1: So they brought in a team of of scientists us

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, how do we preserve this thing. We'll

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Speaker 1: let you touch it. And they all went, oh, that

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Speaker 1: sounds good to me. Uh so they formed the shroud.

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Speaker 1: We're always laughing about how the acronyms work out perfect.

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Speaker 1: This is not this is not that the Shroud of

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Speaker 1: Turn Research Project or stirp Uh. They had five days

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Speaker 1: of continuous access in ninety eight hours a day for

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Speaker 1: five days. Yeah, so this is nine years after the

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Speaker 1: first scientists were allowed to touch it. I guess they

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Speaker 1: formed this thing and they you know, of course, what

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Speaker 1: they did was it and say like all right, well

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Speaker 1: we'll work eight or nine hours a day, kick back

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Speaker 1: half some dinner and then sleep, get up to start

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Speaker 1: over eight course Italian meals. They split up into teams

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Speaker 1: so they could work non stop around the clock. They

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Speaker 1: had thirty three members from all over the spectrum of science,

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Speaker 1: twenty major research institutions, along with a team of European

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Speaker 1: scientists who observed. I guess they sat there with our

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Speaker 1: arms folded and just like you know, every ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: They were the ones that brought the good espresso. The

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Speaker 1: US led team, We're like, we don't know where you

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Speaker 1: get that around here, not the kind of espresso you

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Speaker 1: spit out into a napkin. Like what was that? It

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Speaker 1: was in Mulholland Drive when a great scene. Um so

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Speaker 1: here's what their report said, we need like a bombshell

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Speaker 1: effect here, okay, uh quote the shroud images that of

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Speaker 1: a real human form of a scourged, scourged, crucified man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a whip with like, um, several flays on the end

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Speaker 1: and and I think it has like um, like rocks

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Speaker 1: or something tied onto the end of the flaz It's

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Speaker 1: just terrible, very bad crucifixion. We we could do a

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Speaker 1: podcast on that. Yeah. You know something that I came

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Speaker 1: out of this research for me was do you have

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Speaker 1: to be a real s ob to crucify human being,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the son of God or some criminal criminal

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Speaker 1: whatever you should The idea that the Romans used to

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Speaker 1: do that is just it makes my ear blow. Torture

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Speaker 1: until you die, but it's the worst kind. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: So they continue to say it is not the product

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Speaker 1: of an artist. Um. The blood stains are composed of

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Speaker 1: hemoglobin and also give a positive test for serum albuman

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Speaker 1: and um. Despite this, they said it is a mystery

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Speaker 1: because no combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances

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Speaker 1: can adequately adequately account for the image. Right. So that's

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Speaker 1: their official report from that first scientific inquiry, Yeah, published

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Speaker 1: and these definitely were men of science. But the Stirp

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Speaker 1: team was also um and it's ill today has is

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Speaker 1: criticized for. Uh. I guess the way it's put is

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Speaker 1: there were a team of scientists believers, like they were

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Speaker 1: all legitimate scientists, but they also legitimately believed the shrouded

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Speaker 1: turn was the burial shroud of Christ that had been

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Speaker 1: some way or another miraculously imbued with Christ's image upon

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Speaker 1: his ascension to Heaven. Yeah, I get the feeling a

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Speaker 1: lot of this research is like, well, let's get a

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Speaker 1: team in here to debunk it. Let's get a team

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Speaker 1: in here to verify it, you know, right, And and

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Speaker 1: there were skeptics on the Stirp team, but they they

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Speaker 1: apparently didn't have as full access as the believers did,

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Speaker 1: and there there was a lot of like infighting and

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Speaker 1: backbiting among the team. But one thing that's universally agreed

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Speaker 1: on by the members of the team, skeptics and believers alike,

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Speaker 1: is that the Vatican itself did not try to influence

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Speaker 1: the outcome of these tests. At the very least back

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Speaker 1: in ninete yate they were willing to just say, hey,

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever you find is what you find. Um, we're

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Speaker 1: still gonna love the shroud, no matter what right I thought.

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Speaker 1: The thing you were going to say was. The one

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Speaker 1: thing they all agreed on was that those sturt t

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Speaker 1: shirts didn't really work out very well. They argued about

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Speaker 1: the name a lot, but the sturb team is still

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Speaker 1: their findings are still criticized, and one of the things

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Speaker 1: that's very much criticized is the idea that there's no

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Speaker 1: artificial pigments on the shroud and that the bloodstains are

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Speaker 1: actually blood for an alternative hypothesis or an alternative um examination.

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Speaker 1: There's a guy named Walter mcclun did you did you

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Speaker 1: run into him in the hallways? Very ironic. Well, he's

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Speaker 1: also very dead, so that's odd, but that happened. Should

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Speaker 1: have mentioned it was the ghost of Dr McCrone. McCrone,

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Speaker 1: that's so, I'm sorry, that's it. So Walter McCrone was

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Speaker 1: I was like, is this guy you know, is he legit?

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Speaker 1: He's probably the most legitimate scientist of the twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: Like he he published and edited a u a peer

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Speaker 1: reviewed journal on microscopy and microscopic investigation. It's called scop

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Speaker 1: this with an exclamation point. Um. He uh. It was

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Speaker 1: just he's a legitimate scientist, so let me just say that.

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Speaker 1: And he did some examination of the turn shroud and

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Speaker 1: he found, no, there's actually no blood on this at all.

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Speaker 1: And what you're what what looks to be blood is

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Speaker 1: actually red ochre pigment for million and then a temper

357
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Speaker 1: temper um binder. Yeah. And this was in the late seventies,

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Speaker 1: early eighties. And he said, um, basically he could account

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Speaker 1: for everything in there as something that would have been

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Speaker 1: in a paint from the fifties, whereas other folks have said, no,

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Speaker 1: actually that iron in there, that's old hemoglobin. That's from

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Speaker 1: the hemoglobin, and he said, no, it's not. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: needn't bend. So the idea that that he did find

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Speaker 1: red ochre and vermilion pigment, you think, okay, well case

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Speaker 1: closed here, Like this is a great example of the

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Speaker 1: shroud of turin. It is not case closed. It's never

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Speaker 1: going to be case closed. Chemists, molecular biologists, geneticists, you

368
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: could throw every single scientist that you can possibly think

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Speaker 1: of at this thing, and they can find wherever they

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Speaker 1: want to find, And you're gonna have another team who

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Speaker 1: finds the other contrary findings. And neither group is going

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Speaker 1: to read one another's publications except the most hardcore people

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Speaker 1: carrying out these experience. But people like you and I

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Speaker 1: have no idea whether wait, was there blood found on

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Speaker 1: it um? What were the findings about the red ochre.

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Speaker 1: Did he just surmise that it was red ochre pigment

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Speaker 1: because he found all the stuff that makes up red

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Speaker 1: ochre pigment, or did he actually find red ochre pigment?

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Speaker 1: Like this is the kind of thing that keeps the

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Speaker 1: shot of turin a mystery. Well, yeah, I mean there

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00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: have been He's not the only one to have studied

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Speaker 1: whether or not it was blood. There have been other

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Speaker 1: people that said, who's a Heller and Adler said, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's blood, and it's it's a B blood type. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we can even tell you that, and then someone else

386
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Speaker 1: would come along and say it's not blood, or if

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00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: it was, he certainly can't tell the blood type, or

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's blood from the person who might

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Speaker 1: have been wrapped in the shroud, or blood from someone

390
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: handling it, or animal blood. Yeah, there's a there's a

391
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: big criticism of that that it was contamination from somebody

392
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Speaker 1: who was actually analyzing the samples, because well, as we'll

393
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Speaker 1: see later on, a lot of people touch this thing

394
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Speaker 1: over the years, right, and then other skeptics point to

395
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Speaker 1: it and say, dude, you can see it's not blood.

396
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Speaker 1: That's not blood. Blood turns black or at least such

397
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: such a dark, deep brown over the years that it

398
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 1: looks black to the human eye. This looks like blood.

399
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: That's not what blood looks like once it dries and

400
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Speaker 1: ages on cloth. So there's a lot of different arguments

401
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: either side but neither one is compelling enough to convince

402
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: the other side that they're correct, correct, And so it

403
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: just goes on and on, And I read a I

404
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: think a Skeptics Dictionary post on um the Shroud of Turn,

405
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: and the the guy who wrote it just perfect skeptics

406
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: fashion was basically said, you know, even if you do

407
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: prove that this is Jesus's burial shroud, that Jesus Christ

408
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: was buried in this burrel shroud, it doesn't prove that

409
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Speaker 1: he's the son of God. So it will never be settled. Yeah,

410
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: that's not the point of the Shroud of Turn. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think anyone's saying that this proves that. Yeah,

412
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: I think they're just trying to get Well, they're two

413
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: big mysteries. One is is it authentic as a shroud?

414
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: Who is it? Or if it's not, how how was

415
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: this thing made? The second thing is called the question

416
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: of questions? Yeah, so, uh, should we take another break?

417
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: All right, we'll talk about that and some other carbon

418
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: fourteen testing and DNA testing right for this? All right?

419
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: Should we start with you? Let's start with carbon test.

420
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: Let's go chronologically, Uh, late nineteen eighties. I'm a junior

421
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Speaker 1: in high school, Sonny Crockett was coked to the gills,

422
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: long bangs hanging in my face. I think I'm a skater,

423
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: but I'm really not same here. I tried pretty hard,

424
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: but I was never that great. I was okay. I

425
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: was wearing jams. Sure, you're like a little version of me.

426
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: Did you wear jams? Yeah? Did you ever wear skids

427
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: or wear those? Like? Past your before? Yeah? Past your tone?

428
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Kids. They were like pajama pants, clear

429
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: and clear and simple. Definitely not foot but I mean

430
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: like they were what you would think of his flannel

431
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: pajama pants, but they were to be worn like pants.

432
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: They were a weird chat. Not as weird as that

433
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: is the cavaricis, but they were weird. I saw a

434
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: guy I try not to judge people on their appearance,

435
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: but I saw a guy getting on a Delta flight

436
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago wearing, uh, a pair of oversized

437
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: baggy fleece batman pajama pants with these huge fuzzy animal

438
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: slippers and like a Porsche or a Lamborghini T shirt

439
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: and mirrored sunglasses. Oh, how cool. It's like a forty

440
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: something in year old man. I couldn't figure it out,

441
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: and that man was val Kilmer. That might have been

442
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: all right, carbon fourteen dating. The Vaticans said, go forth

443
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: and date this thing. Um. That's what I kind of

444
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: love about how the Vaticans treated this over the years

445
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: of They've always been like, you know, you've got some

446
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: new scientific methods. Let's bring him in here and we'll

447
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: talk science. Yea. So they sent it to three different

448
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: labs University of Oxford Radio Carbon Accelerator Unit UH, University

449
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: of Arizona Go Wildcats, and the Swiss Federal Institute of

450
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: Technology probably so uh Yodlers UH. And this is an

451
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: interesting case because they all three of them found that

452
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: the shroud material that they were given dated between twelve

453
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: sixty and long, long, long after the Jesus of history lived,

454
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: and perhaps not coincidentally, right around the time when the

455
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: shroud first shows up in the documented record. So that

456
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: combined with the fact that it was much after Jesus time,

457
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: led a lot of people in the late eighties to say,

458
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: case closed. This thing is certainly not the burial cloth

459
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: of Jesus. Now, when somebody comes out with um findings

460
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: like this, the other side sets about trying to take

461
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: it out as much as possible every way they can.

462
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of really um interesting backwards twisting turning

463
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: arabesques that that involved logic in a lot of a

464
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: lot of instances. But with this one of the first

465
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: ones that came out was well you you guys, the

466
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: sample was tainted somehow. That was a big one. And

467
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: then the scientists have said, well, how how is the

468
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: sample tainted? And this is where some of the stretching

469
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: nous comes in sometimes, right, one of the one of

470
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: them accusations is that the samples retained by contemporary carbon deposits,

471
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: which threw off the readings of the carbon fourteen. Right. Okay,

472
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: So there's a very famous thing that I think maybe

473
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: um Walter McCrone came up with. But it shows it's

474
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: a graph and it shows how much twentieth century carbon

475
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: it would take to to taint the results from the

476
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: fourth from the forties to the four fourteenth century CE.

477
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: It would take an amount of carbon contamination that weighs

478
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: more than the shroud itself weighs. So that was probably

479
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: not the case. Yeah. Another thing that um, some people

480
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: kind of poopooed about this study was they gave them

481
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: three control fabrics to test alongside um all old stuff

482
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Egyptian mummy, a medieval Nubian to him in a medieval

483
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: French investment, ecclesiastical siment, and all the data from those three,

484
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: from the three different institutions came out the same, whereas

485
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: there was a span of about a hundred and fifty

486
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: years on the Shroud of turin between the three, and

487
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: what they released was the mean of these three. And

488
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: so a lot of people said, well, hey, you're your

489
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: fancy science. Tests nailed these controls, all three of them,

490
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: but there's a big variants in the Shroud of Turrance results,

491
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: so they go back to the your stuff was tainted.

492
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: Another criticism that was proposed was that they had taken

493
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: a patch from the medieval era that had been used

494
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: to patch up the shroud, because the shroud actually was

495
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: in a fire once yea when it was in France,

496
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: I believe still um. It was folded up in a

497
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: box and the chapel that it was in caught fire,

498
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: and the box caught fire and the shroud miraculously sorry

499
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: didn't didn't burn. It just kind of got some scorch

500
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: marks and melted a little bit. Still survived. Yeah they

501
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: are um, but they survived this fire. So what the

502
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: critics of the carbon fourteen test said was that, well,

503
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: you guys chose a part that had been patched up

504
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: around this time during the medieval age. It's so fact though,

505
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: you got it wrong. And then they probably said, well,

506
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: why did you give a SEP part? Well they didn't.

507
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: The Carbon fourteen reports supposedly says that they specifically avoided

508
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: any part that showed any stitching or patches or anything

509
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: like that, that they did not take a sample from that.

510
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: And these were very small samples too. It's not like

511
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: they cut off the bottom third of it and out

512
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: for testing. Um. Alright, so back to what you described, well,

513
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: you quoted from the description of physicists as the question

514
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: of questions. All right, forget the fact that this could

515
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: be the shroud that Jesus was buried in. Forget all

516
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: this stuff like how was this thing made? Because no

517
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: one's been able to recreate this, like come up with

518
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: the process that could recreate this thing, because it's got

519
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: a weird color and it's just no one can replicate it, right,

520
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: And the reason why they're having trouble replicating it is

521
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: it's not just the color that's that's tough to replicate.

522
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: They're finding that if you look at the places where

523
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: it is colored, Um, the thread itself is only just

524
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: a little bit saturated with this color. Yeah, like it

525
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: soaked in a very like thin amount. Right, This is

526
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: what's throwing everybody off. Apparently to me, this is the

527
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: whole key that the mystery swings on. If you were

528
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: an artist and you were creating this using pigment, your

529
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: your paint should just so right through at least one thread.

530
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: This stuff is literally not deep enough to penetrate and

531
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: individual fiber, let alone, all the way through like a

532
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: paint wood point seven micrometers the diameter of an individual fiber.

533
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: That's a that's a very shallow um pigmentation, right, So

534
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: that this is where the big stumbling block is there, Like,

535
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,479
Speaker 1: how would you do this? One of the proposals is that, Um,

536
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: there's this technique called bab relief. I always thought it

537
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: was boss relief until yesterday. But it's like if you

538
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: take an image and you carve it um and this

539
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: is actually pretty well known in the medieval era. You

540
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: can make it out of metal or um stone, and

541
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: you heat it up and you can scorch an image

542
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: on fabric. The thing is to make a scorch that's

543
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: as shallow as the shroud of turns images. It would

544
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: it would have to occur the shrouded have to lay

545
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: on the bab relief bust for something like just a

546
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: minute fraction of a second, And no one can figure

547
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: how you would get a good image like you have

548
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: on the shroud of Turin if you just if the

549
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: the linen just dropped and was pulled off and less

550
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: than a second. No one knows how that could possibly

551
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: be done. Yeah, and that's just one like there have

552
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: been many, many attempts to replicate this over the years,

553
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: either through science or through people using arts and and

554
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: uh materials available in the medieval times, UM something called

555
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 1: acid pigmentation. There's actually a kind of photography, very very

556
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: primitive photography. I saw that in medieval times. UM something

557
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: called dust transfer the bar relief. And then some have

558
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: contended it's a Malliard reaction taking place. Okay, well I

559
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: don't really know fully how they explained that, and I

560
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: don't think it held up. But I mean, that's the

561
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: reaction in cooking, like when you're browning like a meat,

562
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Well, that actually deepens the mystery

563
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: rather than rather than all of it. Other people say

564
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: it could have been burial ointments, ultra violet radiation in

565
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: the Bible, and Matthew says the earth shook, the rocks split,

566
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: and the tombs broke open after the Crucifixion. So geologist said,

567
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: it might have been an earthquake that happened, and maybe

568
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: that threw off the radio carbon dating and maybe there

569
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: was a blast of neutrons. So you say, turned this

570
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: image into the fabric. And those are geologists, legitimate geologists,

571
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: but there are also extraordinarily controversial and most people in

572
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: their fields shunned them, wouldn't even talk to him at

573
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: a cocktail party for Jesus. Basically, they're what they're talking

574
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: about is something called piazzo nuclear fission. And the idea

575
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: is is that, like if you crush a rock, the

576
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: force of it can actually break the atoms apart, releasing

577
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of neutrons. And this Italian geologist's idea is

578
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: that this earthquake that happened when Jesus died um released

579
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: these neutrons and created this irradiated image of him on

580
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: his burial shroud. And that's if you take that one

581
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: line from the Bible completely literally and supposed that they

582
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: didn't mean, like, you know, in a symbolic way, the

583
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: earth shook. But even if it did, there's no evidence

584
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: whatsoever that there is such thing as piezzo nuclear fission.

585
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: And then secondly, it even says that it shook when

586
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: he Um was crucified, so he wouldn't have even had

587
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: the burial shroud around him at the time. Of holes

588
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: in that one in particular Um, but it is, it's

589
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: a theory. And that's another thing about the shrouded turn too.

590
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: It's just learning about all the different hypotheses and all

591
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: the different suggestions that people have come up with, and

592
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: all the holes that they poke in those suggestions that

593
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: in and of itself is fascinating to me. Yeah, the

594
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: physicists a lots that I tried the ultra violet light

595
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: experiment and he basically said, you know, the the amount

596
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: of ultra violet light you need exceeds quote exceeds a

597
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: maximum power release by all ultra violet light sources available today.

598
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: So how in the world could someone have done this

599
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: on purpose in medieval times? So chuck the um carbon

600
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: fourteen and the fabric analysis. Those are huge, big landmark

601
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: cases one, right, and then I think things just kind

602
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 1: of everybody bickered for the next twelve five years. Yeah,

603
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: it's a lot of bickering, and um, finally somebody's like, well,

604
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: hey man, we've got this great DNA testing stuff we

605
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: can do. Uh, let's do let's do something. Let's do it.

606
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: To it to the shouted turn with the DNA tests. Yeah,

607
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: and so what they found out, Um, they found out

608
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things that didn't in the end

609
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: lead to any sort of verification of fake or authentic

610
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: at all, but interesting stuff. Nonetheless. One is that this

611
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: thing got around um or at the very least, um

612
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: was touched by a lot of people from all over

613
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: the world, and in return, it touched a lot of

614
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: people around the world. I would say, so, um, you

615
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: know Europe, uh, Middle East, India, Africa had DNA from

616
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: a lot of folks, and it had a lot of

617
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: plant DNA too. They tested both. Yeah, and a lot

618
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: of weird DNA plant DNA showed up on it. Right,

619
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: So you've got like black locust trees from Appalachia and

620
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: North America. Yeah, that was a little surprising. It's weird.

621
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: Apparently a very rare Asian pear tree. Um stuff that's

622
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: fun in India. Yeah, um, Mediterranean clover. That makes sense.

623
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and so does with the human DNA. They

624
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: found the the most the heaviest concentration of DNA was

625
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: from people in the Middle East around where Jesus was buried,

626
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: So that kind of makes sense. Um. But here's the

627
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: one I don't get. They said that the oldest DNA

628
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: was from India, which they say suggested it could have

629
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: been manufactured in India because Indians and Europeans didn't like

630
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of contact back then. But then I

631
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: saw someone trying to refute that in the same article,

632
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: and this is from Life Science by the way, um,

633
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: saying that it could have been uh when it was

634
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: on public display. Is where the Indian DNA came from.

635
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: That's where all this DNA could have come from. Well yeah,

636
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: but they said that the oldest DNA was from India.

637
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: So again it's just like every time someone uncovers something

638
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: that's just another little mystery to it. It It seems like

639
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: unless you go back to the carbon dating and those

640
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: scientists are like, now this has stood up to scrutiny

641
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah. And I actually saw a BBC

642
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: um little documentary on the uh, the shot of Turn,

643
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: and they went in physic it did somebody who was

644
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: there at at Oxford when they did the carbon dating,

645
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: and they were like no, he was his mind seemed

646
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: wide open at the very least, but he was definitely

647
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: like no, it was all legitimate and I've never heard

648
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: an objection to it that that panned out. You know, Um,

649
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 1: you got anything else, Well, I think you can probably

650
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: sit here for hours and hours, yeah, in hours, but

651
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: we're not going if you if it has floated your boat.

652
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: There's plenty of stuff for you to go read. You

653
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: can start with a couple of great articles that we used,

654
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: um one from nat GEO, Why is shoud of Turn?

655
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: Secrets continue to elude science? That was great and live science,

656
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: like you said, article called is it a fake DNA

657
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: testing deepens mystery, shout of Turn and plenty of other stuff.

658
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: Go check out um Walter mccrone's site as well. He's

659
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: got his own site on the shutter Turn. Yeah. Oh

660
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: it's by the way, I mentioned him and in this

661
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: meant to mention this send anology. It's what it's called

662
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: the Official Study of the Shroud. Really, it has its

663
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: own ology s I N D O N i'll apology.

664
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: We all know how to spell that O L O

665
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: G I E r Uh. Well, if you want to

666
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: know more about the shild, like we said, go start

667
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: searching and welcome to the rabbit hole. So see the thing?

668
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: Yeah in person? Why not? I totally would if I

669
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: was in your turn. There's steamers that go to Italy.

670
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 1: Still uh. And since we said Italy, it's time for listener.

671
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this divorce upcoming. Hey, guys, my wife

672
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: Jade and I are huge fans of the show and

673
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: listen almost every night before bed. But we don't like

674
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: each other. We have our favorite s Y s G moments.

675
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: But when that made us both laugh like crazy was

676
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 1: Chuck's nerd gasm towards the end of the Action Figures episode.

677
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: We rewound the podcast and listen to that part so

678
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: often I'd decided to take a clip. Uh, make a

679
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: clip of it and said it as my alarm clock tone. Uh.

680
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: Sound files attached. It's very short, but played on a

681
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: loop fifteen to twenty times at seven thirty am, and

682
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: you will get the full effect. Now we wake up

683
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: to your voices as well as falling asleep to them. Uh.

684
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: Long and may you're a great show. Continued David. Uh,

685
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: he didn't leave his wife's name, but David and oh

686
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: yeah Jade uh in Newcastle, England. And let's just play

687
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: this really quick. He's played like five times to get

688
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: the full effect. Let's hear it, go go go go go. Wow.

689
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: That would wake me up. I sit pulled up right

690
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: and be like not a Cain. Yeah, that's a yeah.

691
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: Good luck with the divorce. Thanks sorry Jade and David.

692
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: Thanks Jade and David. You could also bring them together,

693
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: you know, right in opposition against us. Okay, Uh, thanks

694
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: Dad and David and Jade or Dade that's your couple

695
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: name now and Javid? Um, yeah, either one's good. Uh.

696
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with this like

697
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: Jade and David did, yeah, you can tweet to us

698
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: at s Y s K podcast or I'm also at

699
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: Josh um Clark Chucks at Charles W. Chuck Bryant and

700
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: at stuff you Should Know on Facebook dot com. Uh.

701
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: You can send us an email stuff podcast at how

702
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com and has always joined us at

703
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: a home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot

704
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

705
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: Is It How stuff Works dot com