Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? Hi? Hi, everyone, We're back. This is
Speaker 1: Are You a Charlotte? And we are now looking and
Speaker 1: at season one, episode two. It's called Models and Mortals.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, me, I watched this last night. I'm
Speaker 1: still in shock. I have more questions than I have answers.
Speaker 1: There's a lot to dig into here. I honestly just
Speaker 1: don't even really, I really am not sure what to
Speaker 1: say about. This episode is super fascinating, though, So let
Speaker 1: me just kind of go back in time a little bit.
Speaker 1: I Charlotte only has one scene in this episode, and
Speaker 1: it's a really fun and funny scene that I do
Speaker 1: have a lot of memories about. And someone asked me, oh,
Speaker 1: did you remember that you only had one scene? And
Speaker 1: I didn't remember. And part of the reason that I
Speaker 1: didn't remember is that one of the things, and I
Speaker 1: don't really know if we're the only show who does those,
Speaker 1: we probably aren't. But one of the interesting things about
Speaker 1: how we film, and this is still true to this
Speaker 1: day on and just like that, is that we crossboard
Speaker 1: two episodes at a time, so we're always filming two
Speaker 1: episodes simultaneously. And part of the reason for that is
Speaker 1: that locations in New York City are so expensive. So
Speaker 1: let's say you get a restaurant for the day. That
Speaker 1: takes you know, a lot of money. You have to
Speaker 1: get into all kinds of arrangements. You have to arrange
Speaker 1: with the Mayor's Office of Location Management for parking and
Speaker 1: for all the trucks, and it's a whole big to do, right, So,
Speaker 1: if you get a location, you would divide it up,
Speaker 1: Like let's say you got a restaurant, you might film
Speaker 1: in front of the restaurant, and then you might also
Speaker 1: film a different scene from a different episode inside the restaurant,
Speaker 1: So you know, you're kind of cross purposing those actual locations.
Speaker 1: So when you're filming, you're filming two episodes at once. Now,
Speaker 1: sometimes it gets out of hand, Like I remember one time,
Speaker 1: maybe season three of Sex and the City. Towards the end,
Speaker 1: we had all these unfinished scenes and we had I
Speaker 1: think four units filming, and we had to make T shirts,
Speaker 1: different colored T shirts for the different crews on the
Speaker 1: different units and all the actors. We just had to
Speaker 1: run from soundstage to soundstage to do the different things
Speaker 1: that we needed to do to finish the episode like
Speaker 1: that was crazy times, and then just his past year
Speaker 1: on and just like that. I think there was a
Speaker 1: time when the call sheet had six different episodes listed
Speaker 1: for Charlotte of things that I had to finish. So
Speaker 1: this particular episode, I have a different storyline for the
Speaker 1: next episode that I was also doing, so it's not
Speaker 1: like I was just sitting around the whole time. But
Speaker 1: I also didn't really remember that I only had the
Speaker 1: one episode and my thoughts on that, which, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're ever going to find out,
Speaker 1: you guys, why they tried to demote me, As one
Speaker 1: of our current writers said, because you know, the funny
Speaker 1: thing about the reaction, I mean, there's many funny things
Speaker 1: about the reaction to the first two podcasts. One is
Speaker 1: that a lot of my closest friends don't even know
Speaker 1: the stories that I told you guys. They're like, what
Speaker 1: you know? And some of our current you know, very
Speaker 1: beloved crew members and writers and directors and everybody don't
Speaker 1: know that story. So everyone's just like, why what happened?
Speaker 1: What happened? I don't know if we'll ever know. I
Speaker 1: really don't know. I don't know the answer to it,
Speaker 1: I feel when I look back on it now from
Speaker 1: the perspective of twenty seven years later or whatever, having
Speaker 1: read Candace's book, which was based on Candace's column, And
Speaker 1: the thing that's important for this particular episode to remember
Speaker 1: is that Candace's column in The Observer called Sex and
Speaker 1: the City was I believe, based in true stories that
Speaker 1: she was hearing and or participating in, but also hearing
Speaker 1: around town that were true stories, right, So she wouldn't
Speaker 1: use the names. She might imply who they were, so
Speaker 1: that if you were, like you know, ran in this
Speaker 1: circle of friends in New York, you might know who
Speaker 1: the stories were, but you might also not know and
Speaker 1: just you know, read it for some interesting like social archaeology.
Speaker 1: I guess maybe I'm going to try not to say
Speaker 1: like so much, because I did see the comment from
Speaker 1: one of our listeners that I say like too much.
Speaker 1: So I just said, like, I'm really sorry. I'm going
Speaker 1: to do my best. It's not going to be easy
Speaker 1: because I'm just sitting here by myself yaking, okay, but
Speaker 1: thank you for being with me and understanding. So Candace
Speaker 1: is writing this column in the nineties in New York
Speaker 1: City and she is writing things she's hearing happened, or
Speaker 1: was there for when they happened, or both or neither,
Speaker 1: I guess, but you know, that's the genesis of all
Speaker 1: of this. So when I watched this episode, episode two,
Speaker 1: which was the first episode we filmed once the show
Speaker 1: had been picked up, I'm assuming that this really insane
Speaker 1: storyline about this character that Gabriel Mock plays Barkley film
Speaker 1: these models. I'm just going to go with the fact
Speaker 1: that this is something Candice heard about that happened and
Speaker 1: put in her column and thus ended up in her book,
Speaker 1: and thus ended up in our show because Darren Starr
Speaker 1: optioned her book, Sex and the City. So that's what
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with. I'm going to go with
Speaker 1: the fact that they didn't just make this up or
Speaker 1: whatever for the show. I'm not sure because at this
Speaker 1: point also the important thing to remember for me is
Speaker 1: that the writers were all in Los Angeles. They did
Speaker 1: not come We did not know them very unlike how
Speaker 1: the show went on to develop, where the writers were
Speaker 1: with us every day. The writers were part of our lives.
Speaker 1: They were very close friends of ours, still are a
Speaker 1: very close friend of ours. You're going to be meeting
Speaker 1: them along the way. They're wonderful, these particular group of writers.
Speaker 1: Some of them I would not know them if I
Speaker 1: saw them. If I ran into them and they told
Speaker 1: me I wrote an episode of Sex and City for
Speaker 1: the first season, I would just say, like, okay, I
Speaker 1: would believe them, because I don't know what they look like.
Speaker 1: We were in Los Angeles after the pilot, Darren, myself,
Speaker 1: and then strangely Sarah Jessica. This is a funny story.
Speaker 1: I was renting a house at the time in a
Speaker 1: little canyon in the west side of Los Angeles, not
Speaker 1: a particularly popular canyon, and one day I had gotten
Speaker 1: a puppy and I was walking down the street and
Speaker 1: we are in the waiting period of waiting to hear
Speaker 1: if HBO was going to pick the show up, and
Speaker 1: they had I feel like they had eighteen months to
Speaker 1: decide something like that, maybe just a year. Whatever. It
Speaker 1: was felt like eternity. And I would call my poor
Speaker 1: manager Dave every day and be like, did you hear anything,
Speaker 1: did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And then
Speaker 1: I would call my lawyer Jason, and I would say
Speaker 1: did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And It
Speaker 1: just went on and on and on the waiting, and
Speaker 1: sometimes I think I would call Darren Starr say like,
Speaker 1: did you hear anything? I wasn't close enough to Sara
Speaker 1: Jessica at this point to have her number to be
Speaker 1: calling a buggy herm, which is probably a good thing.
Speaker 1: But one day walking down the street in this little
Speaker 1: neighborhood that I've rented a house in, and I'm walking
Speaker 1: my new puppy, and who drives down this empty street
Speaker 1: with Sara Jusica Parker in a rented Lexus And I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And she's like, Hi, what
Speaker 1: are you doing here? And I said, I just rented
Speaker 1: the house over here. What are you doing here? And
Speaker 1: she said, oh, Matthew's here doing a movie, so I'm
Speaker 1: here with him while he's filming this movie. And I said,
Speaker 1: did you hear anything? She was like no, and she
Speaker 1: didn't seem she didn't seem as anxious about it as
Speaker 1: I was. And I was like, what do you think
Speaker 1: is happening? You know what was going on? And she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I don't know. And I said,
Speaker 1: what don't you wanted to be picked up? And she
Speaker 1: said something like yeah, but I could tell she was
Speaker 1: just trying to please me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, no, Sara Jusica doesn't want to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I do think now, you know,
Speaker 1: knowing her all these many, many years, that this was
Speaker 1: back to her kind of reticence to being committed to
Speaker 1: a show. Because, as I told you before, we did
Speaker 1: have these massive, in your long contracts, which is the
Speaker 1: norm for any kind of pilot. So for her, she'd
Speaker 1: been kind of just this, you know, journeyman actress in
Speaker 1: a way, like doing Broadway, you know, doing movies like
Speaker 1: Honeymoon in Vegas. Most actors don't really want to be
Speaker 1: committed one to one job forever. So anyway, Sarah Jessica,
Speaker 1: I believe her nervousness was do I really want to
Speaker 1: be committed? Do I want to be tied down? It
Speaker 1: wasn't something that most actors like you didn't start to
Speaker 1: be an actor because you wanted to do one job
Speaker 1: for thirty years. That just wasn't even really a possibility.
Speaker 1: And obviously for us has turned into this incredible opportunity.
Speaker 1: But never, never, never, never, never, never would we have
Speaker 1: thought of that at the time, I mean never, never,
Speaker 1: Like we were just wanting to be picked up for thirteen episodes.
Speaker 1: That was our dream. Like I remember Darren and I
Speaker 1: when we did get picked up, we used to make
Speaker 1: jokes about how maybe one day we could get nominated
Speaker 1: for a Cable Ace Award. That was the highest our
Speaker 1: hopes were. There's this thing there gone they were called
Speaker 1: the Cable Ace Awards. They were just for shows on
Speaker 1: cable because at that point, no cable show had ever
Speaker 1: been nominated for an Emmy, much less one in Emmy.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't even in our mind that that could happen.
Speaker 1: But obviously it did later on happen, which is a miracle.
Speaker 1: There's so many miracles involved in our show. Anyway, back
Speaker 1: to this episode. So this episode to me is super
Speaker 1: fascinating for so many different reasons. So we have a
Speaker 1: different DP at this point. Her name is Maurice Albert Ti.
Speaker 1: She's French, and I used to butcher her name all
Speaker 1: the time, and for any French people, I'm really sorry
Speaker 1: if I have butchered it again. But she was incredible,
Speaker 1: and we also have this really interesting director, Alison McClain.
Speaker 1: Now what I remember of the first season Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I didn't get to the point that they did finally
Speaker 1: pick us up obviously. I guess that's obvious. So maybe
Speaker 1: like a year of waiting and then we get picked
Speaker 1: up finally. I also think, and when I watched this
Speaker 1: episode two, I really really seriously think this that you know,
Speaker 1: it was a really different, different time in our culture,
Speaker 1: certainly in our entertainment landscape. HBO at that point was
Speaker 1: known for having boxing. Yes, boxing, that was their claim
Speaker 1: to fame, boxing and movies, right. That was why you
Speaker 1: paid the hefty price to have HBO cable pay cable
Speaker 1: on your television at home, because no one had iPads
Speaker 1: because they weren't invented. It's crazy to think about, you guys. Crazy. Okay.
Speaker 1: So they had had a show called dream On on HBO,
Speaker 1: and on dream On every episode a different actress would
Speaker 1: show her breasts. That was just part of the show
Speaker 1: and it was theoretically to please the men who were
Speaker 1: watching HBO to watch the boxing. I believe, I mean,
Speaker 1: no one ever said these words to me, but this
Speaker 1: is what I believe to be true. So I think
Speaker 1: when we came along, one of the things that I
Speaker 1: think is super interesting to think about for the first season.
Speaker 1: Nothing had aired yet at this point, and back in
Speaker 1: the olden days, we used to put a show on
Speaker 1: the air and see the reaction as it went. Like
Speaker 1: if you were on, say, for instance, a multi camera show,
Speaker 1: you would start filming, they would come on the air,
Speaker 1: you'd still be filming, right, so you could kind of
Speaker 1: change and shift based on the audience reaction to things.
Speaker 1: Back when we started, we filmed the whole thirteen without
Speaker 1: anything ever being on the air, which was really unusual
Speaker 1: at the time. Now with streaming, people do it all
Speaker 1: the time. But no one knew what we were doing.
Speaker 1: We didn't really know what we were doing. I remember
Speaker 1: that someone made, probably production I guess, made a hat
Speaker 1: for us to start. It was like a welcome, you know,
Speaker 1: a welcome you get like swag right in the beginning,
Speaker 1: and it said sex on the front of the baseball cap.
Speaker 1: Back of the baseball cap it said and the city. Now.
Speaker 1: I wore this hat all over Manhattan. Okay. So I
Speaker 1: remember being into Starbucks one time with his sex hat on,
Speaker 1: and some man is ahead of me in line and
Speaker 1: he turns and he's like interesting hat, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a show. And he said, oh, and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a show on HBO. It's a new show.
Speaker 1: He said, are you on it? And I said I am, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I am. And he said, oh, is it Real Sex?
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, there was a show on
Speaker 1: HBO in the wee hours of the morning, you guys
Speaker 1: literally basically like porn. Okay. I only saw it once,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what, Oh my god, So this
Speaker 1: man in the Starbucks thinks that I, personally Kristen am
Speaker 1: on this show called Real Sex in the wee hours
Speaker 1: on HBO. And I didn't know what it was at
Speaker 1: the time, but I was like, no, no, it's a comedy.
Speaker 1: And he was like, oh, it looked like he didn't
Speaker 1: believe me, So I kind of quit wearing that hat.
Speaker 1: But these this is where we're at at this point,
Speaker 1: right we're just kind of at a vacuum, you know,
Speaker 1: so we're operating in a vacuum. We're trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what we're doing. All the writers are back in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Writer Darren had had a writer's room back
Speaker 1: in LA which is kind of you know, like how
Speaker 1: writers work, they have a writer's room, they pitch ideas.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they were using Candace's book. Maybe Candace was involved,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but they then they have the scripts,
Speaker 1: and then they already have the scripts when we come
Speaker 1: to work basically or the scripts are primarily done. Michael
Speaker 1: Patrick King is the person that we will ask about
Speaker 1: this because Michael Patrick's King. King's name appears on this
Speaker 1: episode for the first time, hallelujah, and we get to
Speaker 1: talk to him very soon. And man, the list of
Speaker 1: questions is going to be long, you guys, I mean
Speaker 1: so long, like things that I literally am. I feel
Speaker 1: like I've never seen the show. When I watched these
Speaker 1: early episodes, I feel like I don't remember this. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening. I'm fascinated. But wow. So Michael
Speaker 1: can hopefully answer some of these questions for us. I'm
Speaker 1: sure that he can, and he is on. His name
Speaker 1: is on, not as a writer Darren wrote this episode,
Speaker 1: but he definitely is on as a co executive producer.
Speaker 1: So that's super interesting. So this episode, Hey gosh, where
Speaker 1: to begin? This episode has so many fascinating, fascinating points
Speaker 1: to it, which you know, I really seriously need to
Speaker 1: hear all of your feedback on it. Because of two reasons.
Speaker 1: Number one, how does it seem to you if you've
Speaker 1: seen it, like in the last couple of years, for instance,
Speaker 1: does it seem really shocking to you in terms of
Speaker 1: this storyline of men who only date models, And then
Speaker 1: there's this one and they're they're kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: unembarrassed about it all, you know, like, yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, I just love beautiful women, you know, like
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. And then also there's this one particular character,
Speaker 1: bark Lee, who filmed these models that he's having sex
Speaker 1: with secretly and tells Carrie that this is his real
Speaker 1: art because he is also a painter. He's splashing some
Speaker 1: paint and you know, like kind of in a slightly
Speaker 1: Jackson Pollock way but not really on a big canvas
Speaker 1: with Carrie talking about models. And then he's like, but
Speaker 1: this is my real art, and he shows her this
Speaker 1: wall of like super old fashioned, like nineteen sixties televisions,
Speaker 1: and then shows Carrie the video of him having sex
Speaker 1: with these different women who are models, who Carrie says,
Speaker 1: it is like the entire fragrance section of Vogue magazine,
Speaker 1: and you know what on earth I mean? I Ah,
Speaker 1: I'm just still in Shock. Obviously he would be in
Speaker 1: jail if this happened now, which you know, this is progress, okay,
Speaker 1: But also Carrie has to really be like so kind
Speaker 1: of game, like she just sits there and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, And I just wonder what on earth Sir
Speaker 1: Jusica was thinking. And I'm also wondering what on earth
Speaker 1: Gabriel Mocked was thinking. I mean, he gets, in my
Speaker 1: mind so much credit because his likability factor is so
Speaker 1: high that he somehow makes this character likable almost I
Speaker 1: mean not really, because no one doing this could really
Speaker 1: be likable, but like you really are. You're kind of
Speaker 1: with him and then you're like, oh my gosh. But
Speaker 1: like then we see him again at the fashion show
Speaker 1: and Carrie's like, hey, you know, like it's really fascinating.
Speaker 1: And I honestly think if it were not Gabriel Mocked
Speaker 1: to play that character, I just don't even know how.
Speaker 1: I just don't even I just can't even picture it
Speaker 1: even being remotely palatable in any way. So credit to you,
Speaker 1: mister Mocked. I can totally see how you have a
Speaker 1: very successful career on suits and all the other things.
Speaker 1: I don't even know, And I really wish I had
Speaker 1: gotten to work with you because you were great, but wow,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you had to play this part. You can
Speaker 1: tell how I feel about this, this character and this storyline,
Speaker 1: and I just also feel for Sarah Jessica and I
Speaker 1: just can't wait to ask her, you know, what on
Speaker 1: earth were you thinking when you had to do this
Speaker 1: and be fine with it? And what I think about
Speaker 1: it is that one of the things I think as
Speaker 1: a kind of a thematic idea of watching the beginning
Speaker 1: of the beginning of the show is one of the
Speaker 1: things that we were struggling with, though I don't think
Speaker 1: we would have had the words for it at the time,
Speaker 1: was whose gaze is this story or show for and
Speaker 1: or by? Is it the male gaze? Is it the
Speaker 1: female gaze? Are we trying to be somehow filling this
Speaker 1: area that HBO has carved out for itself of having
Speaker 1: like kind of funny and slightly titillating shows like dream On.
Speaker 1: Are we trying to do that for the men viewers?
Speaker 1: Or are we trying to make a show about strong
Speaker 1: women navigating relationships in New York City, which obviously is
Speaker 1: we turned into Thank Goodness, But at the time I
Speaker 1: don't think that we really knew. And part of the
Speaker 1: reason I bring this up is that coming up in
Speaker 1: a couple episodes is going to be a storyline where
Speaker 1: Charlotte is in a situation that I saw happening one
Speaker 1: way and the director saw happening in a very very
Speaker 1: different way. And I ended up having to lock myself
Speaker 1: in a dressing room and call my manager and it
Speaker 1: was like two am. So Michael Patrick wasn't there, Sir
Speaker 1: Jessca wasn't there. No one was there to help me,
Speaker 1: and I just had to like hide and call my
Speaker 1: manager and be like what I do? What shud I do?
Speaker 1: What's happening? And it was very similar the more active
Speaker 1: as this storyline that Carrie finds herself in terms of
Speaker 1: like something that normally I think you wouldn't see on television, right.
Speaker 1: I think that was kind of the thing too, Like
Speaker 1: we were trying to push the boundaries, and I feel
Speaker 1: like Candice in her column was also like trying to
Speaker 1: push the boundaries, but investigate, like what is going on here?
Speaker 1: You know, can women have sex like men? You know?
Speaker 1: What do you make of modelizers? You know? Is it
Speaker 1: worth trying to like push through that with a man
Speaker 1: let's see you meet a man in New York, which
Speaker 1: could still happen. Okay, these dudes are one hundred percent
Speaker 1: still there. I mean there are some famous ones. I
Speaker 1: am not going to say their name. I know you
Speaker 1: all know who I mean. Like, I think it's really
Speaker 1: fascinating and I don't know that it's been answered yet,
Speaker 1: Like why, like why why would a man only date models?
Speaker 1: That is interesting? Okay, is it, like Carrie says about
Speaker 1: the status, you know, is it making them feel stronger,
Speaker 1: more powerful better that they have kind of a trophy
Speaker 1: kind of person on their on their arm. But I
Speaker 1: also feel like there is this storyline kind of uh
Speaker 1: sub subtext going on, or actually I think we actually
Speaker 1: say it in the episode of like that they're not
Speaker 1: that bright because the whole storyline with Josh Pace, who's
Speaker 1: so funny as Nick, who is the main modelizer of
Speaker 1: the episode, who takes Miranda on a date because his
Speaker 1: friends gang up on him and tell him that they
Speaker 1: want him to bring a woman who can actually have
Speaker 1: a conversation, which is kind of funny, and so he
Speaker 1: brings Miranda and then she finds out and then it
Speaker 1: shows these beautiful women that he's previously brought and they
Speaker 1: can't even really converse with his friends who are not models. Right,
Speaker 1: So it does kind of continue on this kind of
Speaker 1: idea that the beautiful women can't be smart, which is
Speaker 1: not fair either. Right. So, like we've got some different
Speaker 1: things that we're toying with in this episode, which I
Speaker 1: think are fascinating, but also I don't know that we
Speaker 1: go deep enough. I think that's I think that's what
Speaker 1: I think. I mean. I love these two beautiful women
Speaker 1: because we're still in the talking to the camera phase, right.
Speaker 1: So at one point we got cut to a restaurant
Speaker 1: and they're two beautiful women, and one of them says,
Speaker 1: oh god, I was hopeful for a second. She goes,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean people just don't think we're smart.
Speaker 1: And I read all the time, and I'm like yay.
Speaker 1: And then she says, I read sometimes a magazine from
Speaker 1: cover to cover, and I'm like boo. So, like, you know,
Speaker 1: this whole episode for me was really up and down,
Speaker 1: really up and down. Now let's cut two for a second.
Speaker 1: We now have the transition happening of Sir Jessica's hair.
Speaker 1: It's brown in the pilot, which I personally love. Maybe
Speaker 1: selfishly because obviously I'm a brunette and she's now blonde,
Speaker 1: but it's not as blond as she ends up, right,
Speaker 1: it's kind of in transition. She's got like really light
Speaker 1: highlights around her face. I think it's so adorable, and
Speaker 1: at one point she has ponytails and it's so cute.
Speaker 1: This is when we get Pat Field as our costume designer,
Speaker 1: so you don't totally see Pat's influence straight out in
Speaker 1: this episode, and I remember it being very much a
Speaker 1: pro right, like Pat, I had never really done a
Speaker 1: television show. She does not think like a regular costume
Speaker 1: designer at all. She thinks like a fashion designer, but
Speaker 1: also like kind of an avant garde fashion designer. So like,
Speaker 1: for me, in one scene that I'm in, I'm wearing
Speaker 1: my own clothes. Okay, now they're not good. All right,
Speaker 1: They're really not good, and I'm sorry. I apologize, And
Speaker 1: very soon in this in real life, Darren takes me
Speaker 1: out to dinner. Maybe these two episodes or maybe the
Speaker 1: next two episodes. I'm not sure, because I'd started going
Speaker 1: to my fittings with Pat and it was stressful. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to put it It was stressful
Speaker 1: for me because I came from you know, more traditional
Speaker 1: theater and TV and more traditional costume designers, and you
Speaker 1: would go, you would have a fitting in a costume
Speaker 1: room at a studio or you know, wherever you were filming,
Speaker 1: and there'd be closed there and you'd try them on.
Speaker 1: Pat did not work like that. I remember going to
Speaker 1: stores with Pat and Rebecca her assistant slash girlfriend, slash wife,
Speaker 1: and Mollie Rogers, who's still our costumes that are now
Speaker 1: was also around, and we're going to talk to Molly
Speaker 1: soon and I cannot wait. Okay, I cannot wait, because
Speaker 1: she was around for all of it. But it was
Speaker 1: a process with Pat. And I remember going to stores
Speaker 1: and you would have a stack of cash in their
Speaker 1: hand that they couldn't hold in their hand. It was
Speaker 1: a big stack of cash, okay, and they'd carry it
Speaker 1: in a bag. And the reason I remember this is
Speaker 1: because at one point we left it somewhere we had
Speaker 1: to go I can get it. I mean, like what
Speaker 1: on Earth? Alright? One on Earth? It's so crazy to
Speaker 1: think about, but like we would go to like Burgdorf
Speaker 1: and I would just be like, uh, just be just
Speaker 1: so riddled with Anxiet. We'd be looking at all the
Speaker 1: you know, Dulja Gabon and whatever, and I didn't think
Speaker 1: I could wear this, you know. And also we didn't
Speaker 1: really know who Charlotte was. Charlotte. As I said last time,
Speaker 1: when you read the book of Candace's column, she's not formed,
Speaker 1: she's not cohesive. And later on I think Candace either
Speaker 1: told me or said in an interview, I have no
Speaker 1: idea that she. Charlotte was based on numerous different friends,
Speaker 1: so it was really hard to tell, you know, who
Speaker 1: exactly is Charlotte. Like, part of the reason I think
Speaker 1: I only have one scene is that, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: this idea was to make me a recurring role instead
Speaker 1: of a series regular role, which I probably should have
Speaker 1: explained in more detail because there are some whacked headlines
Speaker 1: out there, which I find so frustrating because I just
Speaker 1: want to come on here and talk freely to you
Speaker 1: guys who loved the show. Ah. I somehow thought that
Speaker 1: if it was me talking that they would not misinterpret
Speaker 1: what I was saying. But I guess that that was naive.
Speaker 1: A little bit of Charlotte happening here because there's some
Speaker 1: very strange, first strange headlines in the world about what
Speaker 1: I said last time. So I hope you guys are
Speaker 1: just here with me. I'm going to try to explain
Speaker 1: the contract thing a little bit more. Basically, the big
Speaker 1: contract that you have to sign before you test for
Speaker 1: a pilot is very negotiated, very lengthy for seven years
Speaker 1: because they want to lock you up because if you
Speaker 1: are on a show that turns into a hit, that's
Speaker 1: obviously incredibly important for a network, and they need to
Speaker 1: keep the players you know, available to them. Right. So,
Speaker 1: back then, especially pre streaming, this was very important. So
Speaker 1: when they knocked on my door and said, oh, we
Speaker 1: have this, this paperwork you need to sign. Had I
Speaker 1: signed the paperwork, it would have made my big seven
Speaker 1: year contract null and void. That's why I didn't sign it.
Speaker 1: So it's not that they only paid me five thousand
Speaker 1: for the pilot, which I think is some headline. I
Speaker 1: don't know. That's not true because I did not sign
Speaker 1: the five thousand dollars paperwork, right. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. What paperwork? What
Speaker 1: I left at home? Oh my god, I did a
Speaker 1: lot of acting. Okay, there's a lot of acting in
Speaker 1: my trailer about that paperwork. I knew. I knew that
Speaker 1: it was a risk because clearly there was some thought
Speaker 1: that maybe Charlotte wasn't integral to the story of Sex
Speaker 1: and the City, and I felt like she was. And I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, grateful that I had that confidence. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I have that confidence or had that confidence,
Speaker 1: but I'm very very grateful that I did. It came
Speaker 1: from above, I guess, I don't know. But they basically
Speaker 1: would have only used me when they felt they had
Speaker 1: a storyline, I think, is the point. Right, So recurring
Speaker 1: means that you wouldn't you were not booked for all thirteen,
Speaker 1: So I would have gone home to LA and waited
Speaker 1: for them to call me and say, like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: a storyline for you in episode five or whatever something
Speaker 1: like that. Right, So, like when I see myself in
Speaker 1: this one scene in this episode, which I didn't even
Speaker 1: remember at all, but when I see myself in this
Speaker 1: one scene, I'm like, Oh, they did not know what
Speaker 1: to do with Charlotte, which I also from this vantage
Speaker 1: point understand because she makes no sense in the book. Really,
Speaker 1: you don't the whole wanting to get married her coming
Speaker 1: from a more traditional background and wanting to recreate that
Speaker 1: her going to Smith. She's from Connecticut. All things that
Speaker 1: we know about Charlotte now, we did not know that then,
Speaker 1: so she was not formed. We didn't know how to
Speaker 1: dress her. I remember being with Pat and Rebecca in
Speaker 1: one of these stores and They've got this beaded dulce
Speaker 1: tight wiggle skirt, as Pat would say, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't wear this, and She's like, yes, you can,
Speaker 1: and you know she was right. Of course she was right.
Speaker 1: And so at some point Darren Starr takes me out
Speaker 1: to dinner and he says, Kristen, you have got to
Speaker 1: let Pat Field dress you. You've got to just do
Speaker 1: what she says. And I'm like, okay, all right, I'm just,
Speaker 1: you know, nervous. I don't know these clothes. I just
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can pull it off, you know,
Speaker 1: which was all totally true. And he says, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: You know, she is gonna dress you better than you're
Speaker 1: gonna dress yourself. And I was like, oh, okay, you
Speaker 1: know sure. So when I see myself in that episode
Speaker 1: wearing my own outfit, which I believe I went out
Speaker 1: and got at Fred Siegel, which is also kind of
Speaker 1: adorable and funny in so nineties, any of you who
Speaker 1: are my age remember Fred Siegel and how that was
Speaker 1: like the spot for all of us people in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles to go and spend our money. I just think
Speaker 1: it was a whole process with Pat. And when I
Speaker 1: see Sarah Jessica wearing the incredible dress that she wears
Speaker 1: to the fashion shows, like a black dress with these
Speaker 1: kind of silver jewelry chain pieces that hang off the back,
Speaker 1: oh god that she ends up with them up Derek
Speaker 1: in which we've got to talk about Derek. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you guys. So she ends up she goes Okay, backtrack
Speaker 1: to the episode. So we've met the Gabriel Mocked character.
Speaker 1: Carrie's trying to do her research on modelizers. She goes
Speaker 1: to a modelizer to ask him about this. This is
Speaker 1: Gabriel Mock, who is I guess like an uber modelizer.
Speaker 1: Let's go with that. Okay, slash artist, just being kind,
Speaker 1: all right. So then she goes to a fashion show
Speaker 1: with Samantha and they run into Gabriel Mack's character Barkley
Speaker 1: at this fashion show, and Carrie is wearing this fantastic
Speaker 1: dress that then she then wears to the after party,
Speaker 1: where she runs into Big, which is so incredibly likable.
Speaker 1: I have to say, the two of them, I really
Speaker 1: liked them a lot, and it was nice to remember
Speaker 1: their original kind of chemistry and the way that it
Speaker 1: was written where they just kind of keep running into
Speaker 1: each other, but it's like casual, but then you can
Speaker 1: see that she lights up whenever she sees him. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really liked it. I really liked it, and I
Speaker 1: was surprised that I really liked it because it's a
Speaker 1: long time ago and I didn't really remember how c
Speaker 1: leverly it unfolds. You know, it's not really it's not
Speaker 1: like a television storyline. It's more like a film storyline,
Speaker 1: but also set against this backdrop of Manhattan, right where
Speaker 1: like you would theoretically run into people in your same
Speaker 1: social circle out an event and whatnot. Anyway, back to
Speaker 1: the modelizer, so they run into Gabriel Mark's character Barklay
Speaker 1: at this fashion show, and Samantha really with incredible confidence,
Speaker 1: decides that you know, she is up to the challenge
Speaker 1: of dating someone who literally only has sex with models,
Speaker 1: as Carrie tells her, and you know, you gotta really
Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for how Kim plays Samantha
Speaker 1: with such kind of a light touch, but also this
Speaker 1: incredible confidence that yes, she is going to seduce this
Speaker 1: modelizer even though she's not a model, and that she
Speaker 1: likes that challenge. And then when Carrie tells her later no, no,
Speaker 1: you can't do that because he secretly films the people
Speaker 1: yes sex with She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do that, like it's crazy, and she does it so lightly,
Speaker 1: like with with ease. Is what I was thinking when
Speaker 1: I was watching her, And obviously, wow, you know, I
Speaker 1: still can't quite get over the whole filming situation. But
Speaker 1: you know what I think, I think what's happening? And
Speaker 1: I you know, I guess we'll have to ask everybody,
Speaker 1: But what's happening I think is that Candice in originally
Speaker 1: in her column, is trying to say, you know that
Speaker 1: we need to like pull the cover off of sexuality
Speaker 1: and relationships and what's really going on and talk about it,
Speaker 1: which obviously our show then did as well over the
Speaker 1: years in different ways. And here in this early early
Speaker 1: early version, like Samantha saying like, no, no, I want
Speaker 1: to do this, I'm doing the on purpose because I'm
Speaker 1: choosing to do this. I think that she Samantha, and
Speaker 1: the show, I guess, is like trying to take the
Speaker 1: power back. I think I'm not sure. I want to
Speaker 1: know what you guys think about this, because obviously this
Speaker 1: is something where you can say, oh, wow, look at
Speaker 1: that show filmed in like basically I want to say
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, and how different things are now that
Speaker 1: that would not be okay to secretly film people and
Speaker 1: consider it your art, like you're going to eventually show
Speaker 1: someone like it's very whacked, right. I mean, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure that everyone feels this. And the other thing I
Speaker 1: thought about when I was watching it is that I
Speaker 1: do tend to think like sometimes I'll meet young women
Speaker 1: or my friend's daughters and they'll say like, oh, I've
Speaker 1: just started watching the show and I love it, And
Speaker 1: I'll be like, oh, thank you, I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: love it, Like are you learning a lot? And I'll
Speaker 1: say yes, I mean I watched this show and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh no, they're watching this. Oh no, you know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem it doesn't seem necessarily like the most empowering
Speaker 1: situation that we're showing here. So it is really interesting
Speaker 1: to me, and I'm just dying to know what you
Speaker 1: guys all think, whatever age you are, young, old, please
Speaker 1: tell me your thoughts on this whole situation. Let me
Speaker 1: get my paper out because we are going to talk
Speaker 1: about Skipper and Miranda. I mean, wow, you know, there's
Speaker 1: so much here. My biggest favorite thing, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: Carrie's wearing her coat. Let's talk about the coat for
Speaker 1: a second as well. This is when we first see
Speaker 1: Carrie wearing her vintage for a coat that Pat got her.
Speaker 1: I think they found it in like just a really
Speaker 1: no name store. We did recently get it back out
Speaker 1: on and just like that, and it was a true,
Speaker 1: true vintage for a coat. And I hope I'm allowed
Speaker 1: to say this. I'm really sorry if I'm not, but
Speaker 1: we eventually did get in a lot of trouble with
Speaker 1: Pete about it. I don't really like to wear fur.
Speaker 1: I think I'm okay to say this as well. Pat
Speaker 1: back in the day really really really loved for and
Speaker 1: every year, what would happen with us scheduling wise, is
Speaker 1: that we'd come back to work in roughly February to
Speaker 1: start filming. The show would come on HBO in June
Speaker 1: and then play through the summer. So we had to
Speaker 1: pretend in February like it was summer weather, but obviously
Speaker 1: it really really was not right. So pat would always think, like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be great to put them in some fun
Speaker 1: for coats. I could try to do my patent impression,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to really annoy you guys. She
Speaker 1: has a very distinctive voice, I'm sure you know. But
Speaker 1: every year, every year, at the beginning, she would try
Speaker 1: to get me into a fur coat. And every year
Speaker 1: I beg or please Pat no, please, Pat no, please,
Speaker 1: please no, please know anything anything but that, and but
Speaker 1: she'd be like, all of you are go to be
Speaker 1: in fart It's going to be great. And I remember
Speaker 1: having to go to I can't remember which store, like
Speaker 1: a burgdor for maybe Barney's, but I don't think Barney's
Speaker 1: had a first section. It was like a whole section
Speaker 1: of fur coats, and she was like, you have to
Speaker 1: come here. So I go. She puts this chinchilla wrap
Speaker 1: cape on me, and she's like, it's fabulous. Her favorite
Speaker 1: compliment was to say it's d So I go to
Speaker 1: this store, I put on this chinchilla rap and she's
Speaker 1: like it's so de and I'm like, oh God, help me.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I go home. I literally have nightmares
Speaker 1: that the chinchillas have come alive and that they're crawling
Speaker 1: all over me. So I go to work the next
Speaker 1: day and I'm like, please, bad, I guess sleep think
Speaker 1: about those chinchillas. Please. I'm begging and begging. So what
Speaker 1: she would compromise on is that I would wear shearling.
Speaker 1: So like, there's a really popular pink shearling jacket that
Speaker 1: I wear one year that people still love to this day,
Speaker 1: which for me seems very random out of all of
Speaker 1: the fantastic things I ever wore, that they love this
Speaker 1: pink cher link coat. But that was Pat's compromise that
Speaker 1: I didn't have to wear like mink or chinchilla or
Speaker 1: whatever it was. But we initially see Carrie in her
Speaker 1: really fabulous Okay, I can totally understand that this was
Speaker 1: a special coat. And of course, sir, Jessica has this
Speaker 1: unbelievable gift of style, like just innate personal style, where
Speaker 1: you know she can wear a pair of sweatpants and
Speaker 1: you do not realize that they're sweatpants because of whatever
Speaker 1: she has done to them and put with them and
Speaker 1: a cessorized with them. They just look amazing. This is
Speaker 1: just her personal like special talent. Okay, obviously you all
Speaker 1: know that, but in terms of this vintage fur, that's
Speaker 1: definitely what's happening here. Like if you or I went
Speaker 1: into this door and saw this vintage fur and we
Speaker 1: put it on, I don't know that it would be
Speaker 1: so so fantastic. Also coming up, I think soon they
Speaker 1: put me in a vintage outfit. I love vintage clothes.
Speaker 1: You guys always have love vintage clothes. One of the
Speaker 1: two notes that I know of coming from HBO is
Speaker 1: do not put Charlotte in vintage. Very interesting. You're gonna
Speaker 1: see why when we get to it. It did not.
Speaker 1: It did not play so well on the camera. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, I'm sure we could have figured
Speaker 1: it out, but they were like, do not put Charlotte
Speaker 1: and vintage. And I also kind of understand, like it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, like kind of too on point in a
Speaker 1: weird way. But that was kind of sad for me
Speaker 1: because I do love vintage. But the first time that
Speaker 1: we see the coat, Carrie is walking with Skipper down
Speaker 1: the street and Skipper is going on about Miranda and
Speaker 1: how much he loves her and how he's been calling
Speaker 1: her and calling her and calling her and she won't
Speaker 1: call him back. And then he gets out the most
Speaker 1: hysterical cell phone you've ever seen in your life, which
Speaker 1: I have such memories of, and Carrie pulls the antenna
Speaker 1: up with her teeth, which is like so enjoyable, you guys,
Speaker 1: and he flips open the thing like it's just so great.
Speaker 1: And I remember these things so well, and for us,
Speaker 1: we were just so thrilled to have them, like, you know,
Speaker 1: to have an actual cell phone as clunky and strange
Speaker 1: as it was very exciting in the day. So they
Speaker 1: call her together and Carrie looks kind of nervous, like
Speaker 1: she understands that Skipper is being like too needy and
Speaker 1: that Miranda is not going to be into it, but
Speaker 1: she doesn't quite know how to tell Skipper because he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, very puppy energy and you know, like pick me.
Speaker 1: And so then you know that Miranda has gone out
Speaker 1: with a modelizer, right, which is obviously not a wise choice,
Speaker 1: but how was she to know? And so she kicks
Speaker 1: him to the curb, thank goodness, and she's so funny.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh, I didn't even talk about the group scene.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you guys welcome to my mind. So
Speaker 1: we have to back up. We have to back up
Speaker 1: to the group scene, the one scene that Charlotte's said.
Speaker 1: I do have so many memories of the scene because
Speaker 1: it was the first time that we're in Carrie's apart.
Speaker 1: We have Carrie's real apartment, though it also shows the
Speaker 1: coffee shop sign and Neon from the pilot, so it's
Speaker 1: an interesting jextaposition of the old with the new. But
Speaker 1: it is Carrie's apartment, though it's not fully worked out yet,
Speaker 1: but it's like the blueprint the set that we would
Speaker 1: come to know and love, and we're all together. It
Speaker 1: is the one and only time that we were told
Speaker 1: that we could add lib. After that, it never happened again.
Speaker 1: It was very, very very frowned upon after this. But
Speaker 1: it was the sweetest reason why in this particular scene,
Speaker 1: we're talking about models and men who only date women
Speaker 1: who are models, and you know how we feel about
Speaker 1: that or whatever? Does it make us feel less than
Speaker 1: I think it's something like that, Carrie asked us, and
Speaker 1: then we were each supposed to say what we felt
Speaker 1: insecure about, and the writers didn't want to write that
Speaker 1: on paper, so that was very sweet of them not
Speaker 1: to want to write what they thought that we you
Speaker 1: would feel self conscious about, to let us add lib
Speaker 1: what we felt self conscious about, which was really kind.
Speaker 1: It was also like four in the morning. This was
Speaker 1: the beginning of our well, no, the pilot. Actually, I
Speaker 1: think when I'm on the stairs of the met is
Speaker 1: like four in the morning. We filmed all night long,
Speaker 1: almost all the time. We would start Monday f five am,
Speaker 1: and each day would get longer and longer because we
Speaker 1: had night exteriors. Because as you remember a lot of
Speaker 1: the show in the beginning, especially, we're out and about
Speaker 1: at night. We're on the streets at night blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So we had to wait for nighttime,
Speaker 1: which meant we had to film later and later as
Speaker 1: the week went on. So as the week went on,
Speaker 1: like we'd film probably Wednesday night till two, Thursday night
Speaker 1: till four. By the time we got to Friday night,
Speaker 1: we would film until the sun came up on Saturday
Speaker 1: every single week, and then you'd have to turn yourself
Speaker 1: back around by Monday morning to go to work at five.
Speaker 1: It was a lot, okay. And also back then, we
Speaker 1: really felt like we could never say this publicly like that.
Speaker 1: We just had to be like, we're fine, We're great,
Speaker 1: we love our show so much, and we're having so
Speaker 1: much fun, because that's what everyone wild always say, like
Speaker 1: is there so much fun? You'd be like yes, now,
Speaker 1: mind you. Also, on the weekend, I had a pair
Speaker 1: of shoes that was the whole size too big because
Speaker 1: my feet would be so swollen because I wasn't used
Speaker 1: to wearing these shoes. Everyone always says like, oh, the shoes.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it's hard. It's a thing. It's not
Speaker 1: just like easy. And this is obviously a long time ago.
Speaker 1: So I would have a certain pair of shoes I
Speaker 1: would wear all weekend that my feet could just be
Speaker 1: swollen in. And then hopefully by the end of the weekend,
Speaker 1: the short weekend, they would be back ready at five
Speaker 1: am on Monday to be putting those minolas back on.
Speaker 1: But it did take Pat a little while to get
Speaker 1: me in the minolo's. So right when we see this
Speaker 1: first episode, I'm wearing some boots. I think they're mine.
Speaker 1: I don't know, They're not good Okay, Pat has not
Speaker 1: worked her magic on me yet. It's begune and I'm
Speaker 1: stressing about it, but it has not really fully happened.
Speaker 1: So when we do do this scene in Sara Juska
Speaker 1: Carrie's apartment, sorry, I can't keep us straight. It is
Speaker 1: the wee hours and we are living and absolutely Kim
Speaker 1: ad libs like she like touches Cynthia's face at one
Speaker 1: point or whatever. I mean, it was really I just
Speaker 1: remember giggling and that it was fun and exciting. And
Speaker 1: then I also thought, and this is just because I'm
Speaker 1: the only one here right now, I'm going to tell
Speaker 1: you my own thoughts on myself. Previous to this show,
Speaker 1: I had been on well, I had done some guest
Speaker 1: star things in between, but I'd been on Melroe's Place,
Speaker 1: Darren's other show, right, and when you were on and
Speaker 1: Aaron Spelling Soap Opera, there were a lot of rules,
Speaker 1: and the rules were non negotiable, and the rules had
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that they wanted to do
Speaker 1: three sizes of a camera shot on you, one of
Speaker 1: which was a super close up that would literally cut
Speaker 1: your hairline off right like be like your eyes and
Speaker 1: your mouth, and to do that you had to hold
Speaker 1: really still. So I played this character Brook who worked
Speaker 1: in this office with Billy and Allison on Heatherlockler's character,
Speaker 1: and I used to say like, oh, couldn't I have
Speaker 1: some props? And they'd say like, well, why would you
Speaker 1: want some prop? And I'd be like, well, we're working right,
Speaker 1: Like like should I write something down? It'd be like no, no,
Speaker 1: don't do that. They'd be like why why why wouldn't
Speaker 1: I write something down? Aren't I supposed to be working?
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, you can't look down? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean
Speaker 1: I can't look down now? Mind you, I'd spent the
Speaker 1: last fifteen years in acting class where they're just trying
Speaker 1: to talk to you about being natural and doing things
Speaker 1: and you know, being not self conscious or whatever, and
Speaker 1: so then you're on a show that's like, no, you
Speaker 1: can't look down, you can't have props, you can't do anything.
Speaker 1: You have to just stare at the other person like
Speaker 1: hardcore okay. And you can't change your hair. That was
Speaker 1: the other Aaron Spelling thing, because he didn't want hair
Speaker 1: in your face because you wanted to see your eyes. Okay, now,
Speaker 1: I kind of get it because eyes are the windows
Speaker 1: to the soul. But on the other hand, as an actor,
Speaker 1: it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to do that. So
Speaker 1: when I watch myself in the scene with everybody in
Speaker 1: the group scene, I'm just trying to be natural. I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to be present. I'm eating, I'm touching my hair,
Speaker 1: I'm touching my face. I'm you know, just trying to
Speaker 1: be like un self conscious and in the show that
Speaker 1: we're trying to make, which is much more realistic, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, like not like TV in the
Speaker 1: way that I was, you know previously in So that
Speaker 1: was one of the things I thought about watching watching
Speaker 1: the Four of Us with the Chinese food, like, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm eating. That was a big thing on our show. Yes,
Speaker 1: we always ate, No, we almost, I don't. I can't
Speaker 1: think of a time we had a spit bucket because
Speaker 1: we're in a scene. You can't stop and spit food
Speaker 1: out in a spit bucket. That doesn't work. You have
Speaker 1: to keep talking. As you know, it's going to be
Speaker 1: a Miranda like signature. I mean, you know, they would
Speaker 1: like challenge her like how much food can you get
Speaker 1: in your mouth? And Cynthia was ready. She was ready.
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm going to go for it. We'd I'll
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, maybe it's too much. She'd
Speaker 1: be like no, But it was so much fun to watch,
Speaker 1: so to me that all of that is there in
Speaker 1: the beginning, Okay, Skipper, Skipper, Skipper Skipper, and Miranda are adorable,
Speaker 1: So he's there, he is. I don't even know that
Speaker 1: we ever have a guy care character who is like him. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't think we do. Where he's just like calling
Speaker 1: her and calling her and calling her and kind of needy,
Speaker 1: and everyone's thinking it's not going to work out. Then
Speaker 1: they run into each other in the bodega, which is
Speaker 1: also so New York and so adorable, and he very
Speaker 1: beautifully tells her at the checkout that she's luminous, and
Speaker 1: she is luminous and it just melts her cold heart.
Speaker 1: So it's such a great, great, great scene and I
Speaker 1: love it so much. And then he wants to finish
Speaker 1: paying for his Captain crunch I believe or something, and
Speaker 1: she's like, there's cereal at my house, which is so great.
Speaker 1: There's cereal at my apartment, I believe. She says it's
Speaker 1: so classic and great. So for me, there are such great, great,
Speaker 1: great moments in this episode where you really see this
Speaker 1: huge potential. But then there's also just really really strange
Speaker 1: things like this dude who's filming model secretly having sex
Speaker 1: with him. Right, So it's a very mixed thing. But oh,
Speaker 1: the other thing I was gonna say is that, so
Speaker 1: we filmed these whole we'd done the pilot obviously, and
Speaker 1: then we filmed twelve more episodes before anything came on
Speaker 1: the air. And one of the great things is that
Speaker 1: HBO allowed us to find ourselves, right, So like we
Speaker 1: would kind of, you know, shift this way and shift
Speaker 1: that way, and one script might seem more pushing the boundaries,
Speaker 1: like I would say this episode, and then a different
Speaker 1: script might seem more comedic. And remember Darren, sometimes he
Speaker 1: would come down the writer's rooms in the studio where
Speaker 1: we were in Silver Cup at this point on Long
Speaker 1: Island City. It's still there. It used to be a
Speaker 1: bread factory. It's a very charming place. It's kind of
Speaker 1: falling down, but we love it. And he would come
Speaker 1: down sometimes and he'd be like, you know, you guys
Speaker 1: got to be sexy. You gotta be sexy. And I'd
Speaker 1: say like me, really me, are you sure me? And
Speaker 1: he'd be like, yes, all of you, all of you.
Speaker 1: And we'd be like okay. We kind of look at
Speaker 1: each other. And then a different week he'd come down
Speaker 1: and he'd be like, you guys, gotta be funny. You
Speaker 1: gotta be funny. And we'd be like, okay, uh, are
Speaker 1: you is there a rewrite? Like did something change in
Speaker 1: the script? You'd be like, no, just make it funny.
Speaker 1: We'd be like, okay, okay, Darren, Okay. So there was,
Speaker 1: you know, definitely a growing period of the show and
Speaker 1: the fact that HBO allowed us to kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: slightly flail around a bit. I hope it's okay that
Speaker 1: I'm saying this, because when I watch them, I am
Speaker 1: really just like, it's been a long time. I vaguely,
Speaker 1: vaguely remember this stuff, but like I one percent did
Speaker 1: not remember this filming the model secretly part like it
Speaker 1: is crazy. But I do also feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: we've come a long way in some of these areas.
Speaker 1: I mean, some of these areas we haven't, and then
Speaker 1: some of these areas we have. And I think back then,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that relationships and sexuality were kind
Speaker 1: of seen from the male gaze more often than not,
Speaker 1: at least in entertainment, so like in films, because that's
Speaker 1: really where you saw sexuality. You didn't really see it
Speaker 1: in television so much, right, So that was kind of
Speaker 1: one of the ways that we started pushing that boundary.
Speaker 1: And then what I think happened my perspective on it
Speaker 1: is that as we kind of found ourselves and Michael
Speaker 1: Patrick came, and other writers came, more women writers came,
Speaker 1: we became more grounded in the fact that we were
Speaker 1: about investigating things from the female perspective and not from
Speaker 1: the male gaze, not from the male perspective, where we're
Speaker 1: just trying to kind of deal with it and make
Speaker 1: the best of it as we can, which is what
Speaker 1: I feel like poor Kerrie's trying to do in that
Speaker 1: one scene with the dude. You know, she's like hah,
Speaker 1: you know, like kind of nervously laughing, but she's sitting there,
Speaker 1: you know, it's very fascinating. But then she definitely tells
Speaker 1: Samantha like, do not go there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's not like she thought, oh, it's fine, right,
Speaker 1: So it's I think a very interesting thing, and I
Speaker 1: think something that we'll be talking about more. And I'm
Speaker 1: super curious what you guys think of it, meaning those
Speaker 1: points of like, you know, did you feel uncomfortable watching
Speaker 1: that or did you feel like, oh, yeah, this stuff
Speaker 1: happens and let's uncover it, let's see it, let's see
Speaker 1: it for what it is. And I do think also
Speaker 1: that it should be said that I think that Candice
Speaker 1: had a very non judgmental, you know quality. She was like,
Speaker 1: I'm a social anthropologist and I'm uncovering what's going on
Speaker 1: and I'm not judging it. And in that way, she
Speaker 1: was kind of ahead of her time. I would say,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like now, in many ways, society's
Speaker 1: much more non judgmental and like, well, this is what
Speaker 1: you're into, but also there has to be consent hopefully.
Speaker 1: I mean that's how I feel, at least as someone
Speaker 1: with the daughter. I think we're there. I don't know
Speaker 1: what do you guys think? I want to know from
Speaker 1: you guys. All right? Those were my's dream of consciousness
Speaker 1: thoughts about episode two, Season one, Models and Mortals. Thanks
Speaker 1: for being with me everyone. Next week we have an
Speaker 1: amazing guest. I can't wait. All right, bye,