1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I come to stuff 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and today we're 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: bringing back one that was a really fun, surprising one. 4 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: I think for us in different ways. When we get 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: into July, I start thinking about a lot of nerd stuff. 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts. Listeners is keeping me awake 7 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: at night? How many thoughts I have about nerd stuff? 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: Right now, We're going to have to do a huge 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: episode on it. We're working on something with Joe. But 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: I've just got a million thoughts turning around my head. 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: But we did this episode a while back on the 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: feminism of fanzines, of zines, and it was really interesting 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: because you and I had different experiences when it comes 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: to our memories around them. And then after we did 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: this episode, I remembered that I had there had been 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: more zines in my life than I recalled while we 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: were talking about this, and it was just it was 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: a fascinating one. And because I do as we move 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: closer to what I call Colon season, for me a 20 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: very nerdy time, I was just thinking about that and 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: some of the zines that I have had, and with 22 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: a lot of the flux going on, right now and 23 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: nerd them what the future is and also how it 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: can be this place where there is more representation, which 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: is something that we talked about in this episode. 26 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: You bought me a witch zine I did. I love it. 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: It's cute. I love this too. I love it too, 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: And as always, listeners, Yeah, if you have any zine 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: suggestions or memories, please let us know. But in the meantime, 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and 31 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: Samantha and welcome to Steffan. I never told your production 32 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, and I have to give you some behind 33 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: the scenes. I'm kind of laughing right now because we 34 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: have outlines that we work off of, right and I 35 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: admitted in a passed episode my s key isn't working 36 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: on my laptop, which is one of the most painful 37 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: keys to not be working right. And instead of fixing it, 38 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: I've put everything off lately because I've been so busy. 39 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: I have a lot of interesting workarounds, and I can 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: tell by this outline that I was very frustrated already. 41 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: That's so funny. I'm sorry, it just cracked me up. 42 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: I've found some ways around it, but it's not been 43 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: the easiest thing to do. 44 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: I will say in one of the outlines, you definitely 45 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: missmelled my name. 46 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Because you start with And that's the other thing is 47 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: I said, my spell check isn't working, and I. 48 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: Was like, huh okay, yeah, you. 49 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: Could like see my descent into anger in this outline. 50 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: And another thing about this outline is it was originally 51 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: a Monday Mini. I do think it's going to be 52 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: a shorter one. But every time we say that, it 53 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: never works out. But we'll see. But I was researching 54 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: it and I think we could come back and revisit it, honestly. 55 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: So we're talking about zines. Originally I was specifically talking 56 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: about fanzine, So we are going to talk about zines 57 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: at large in this one. Do you have any experience 58 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: with zines, Samantha. 59 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: I will say I did not know what zines were 60 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: until I moved to Atlanta. I think that was around 61 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, and I 62 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: always called it zines, which he was how little I 63 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 3: knew about it and trying to understand it because there 64 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: was a whole like atl collective group that gets together 65 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 3: and does them, and I was like, what is this? 66 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: It's really fascinating, and then it got really like trendy. 67 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: Yes, so I was very scared of it. 68 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk about that because they 69 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: are experiencing a boom right now. I didn't realize resurging. 70 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: Are you kidding? It's been fifteen years. 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: Well it's been longer than that, but they are experiencing 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: a resurgence. I don't have much experience with scenes. I 73 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: had one nerd one that I just kind of found 74 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: at a thrift store once, and I really liked that one. 75 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: It was like mostly Star Wars, what a bunch of 76 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: other stuff, and I just happened to find it. It was 77 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: really cool. And then Atlanta used to have dope girls zes. 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: Well see I get confused with Zene Andziin too, But 79 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm going with scenes because magazine. I feel like that's 80 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: what it's got to be, right. 81 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: I think you're right. I just really could not grasp it. 82 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and nope, girls are still around, but yeah, but yes. 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I don't think they don't do the zine anymore, 84 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: or at least the last I heard they had retired it. 85 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: They might have bought it back, but they are still around, right. Yes, 86 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: it was very popular. But one of the reasons I 87 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this was I got this inkling 88 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: that something was up a couple of weeks ago, because 89 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 1: people started posting fan fiction that they'd written literal decades 90 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: ago and would say like, hey, I wrote this in 91 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: nineteen whatever, here it is, and I was just kind 92 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: of like, oh, that's interesting. I mean, yeah, I appreciate it. 93 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: And then, as you know, mar Jade, who is a 94 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: Star Wars character from Legends that I'm very very excited 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: to talk about on fictional women around the world, she 96 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: started popping up a lot more and I was like, 97 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: why are people talking about mar Jade? Not that they shouldn't, 98 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: but it's just kind of like, huh, I wonder if 99 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: there's a reason for this. It turns out there there is. 100 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: There is a movement that is primarily led by women 101 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: to digitize old fanzines, to preserve them, to save them 102 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: because otherwise they're just gonna be lost. And it's a 103 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: whole thing. It's really really interesting. I also am currently 104 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: reading one of the best Like I know I've said 105 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: it before, but there's some fan fiction you read and 106 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: you're like, yes, this could be published and be better 107 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: than half the stuff they're putting out, maybe even more 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: than that. And I'm reading one right now that's a 109 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: result of this, and it's so good. It's like reading 110 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: a book. It's all no good. But yeah, since we 111 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: have been on a tech kick lately, I'm always zoned 112 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: to talk about fan fiction, and this is happening right now. 113 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: We thought we would go over it fairly briefly, because honestly, 114 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: it was a much bigger topic than I thought it 115 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: was gonna be. Yeah, you can see the episodes we 116 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: did on fan fiction. You can also see the recent 117 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: ish many that we did that was called a love 118 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: letter to fan fiction, but was primarily about Arcave of 119 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: our own, which is one of the biggest fan fiction sites, 120 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: which is we're going to talk about in this conversation. 121 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so let's talk about this. What are zines 122 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 3: not Zien Smith, not science? I'm having to repeat this 123 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: to myself. Well, they encompass a lot of things, but 124 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: here are a couple of key things involved. 125 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: One is that they're. 126 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: Typically self published or published by an independent small publisher. 127 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 3: This has mainly been a way for marginalized folks to 128 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 3: exercise their voices more freely outside of mainstream media. So 129 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: as a part of that, they are usually not published 130 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 3: in large numbers and are for smaller communities and are 131 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: frequently very niche, and they aren't commercial. There's often a 132 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: lot of contributions and connections to the zine world, which 133 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 3: was what I saw in Atlanta. 134 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of people, you know, well if 135 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: you if I have Zene and you have Zene, will 136 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: work together and collaborate and conditions a lot. 137 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I 138 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 4: always feel like I have to caveat things zines aren't commercial, 139 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 4: but I do think we have seen with the popularity, 140 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 4: magazines try to get in on that, as always happens 141 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 4: in capitalism. 142 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: So I think there could be an argument made that 143 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: some of them aren't commercial, but like at their heart, 144 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: at their core, they're not right commercial. Okay, So a 145 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: brief history depending on how you define zines, because I 146 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: even wrestled with this and I don't know too much 147 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: about them, but I was like, doesn't it go back 148 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: way further than this? But most people say they go 149 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: back to the nineteen thirties with science fiction zines, so 150 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: fans trying to like collaborate with short stories and share 151 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: their fandom with each other. The zine is short for fanzine. 152 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: That was the original use. And remember this was before 153 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: the internet and zines were away for fans to connect 154 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: with each other. It was sort of like, it's always 155 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: interesting these iterations of technology because I've heard people who 156 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: were like one generation before me talk about like old 157 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: message boards online, and that was like the precursor, and 158 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: then the precursor to that is zines, and so yeah, 159 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: it was kind of like a way to connect. These 160 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: fans would speculate with each other, they would share theories 161 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: about their favorite works, they would work together on arts 162 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: and stories, including fan fiction. Yes, but they were also 163 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: sometimes called per zines or personal zcenes, which I love, 164 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: and they were often handmade, right. 165 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: That's again this is what I know, Atlanta, And I 166 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 3: did not know that it had spanned so far back 167 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: because it was themed so niche and for again, the 168 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: ones that I saw in the early two thousands were 169 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: more about music and art. Yes, so it was a 170 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 3: little different and it was very hip culture. 171 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm old, stop it. 172 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 3: So yeah, zines saw a surge of growth in the 173 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: fifties and sixties against kind of like what I'm saying 174 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: with counterculture movements that were eager to support smaller, independent 175 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: publications and the underground press, and also saw it as 176 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: a way to connect with others with similar ideas, a 177 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: space for people to have a voice outside of mainstream media. 178 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 3: Mini designs from this time combined art and politics and 179 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: activism and writing in experimental and new and eclectic ways, 180 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 3: which that's carried on. That's how I knew it more 181 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 3: so than those fan zines, right. 182 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: I think you also just said zions, but we're leaving 183 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: it in because I think it's hilarious having a day. 184 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: Let's go yeah, okay, well, yeah, that's one of my 185 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about this more. But that's 186 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: one of the things people keep saying of why zines 187 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: are so unique is that you don't know what you're 188 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: gonna get in them already. They're like a really unique, random, 189 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: well not necessarily random, but just a lot of different 190 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: things that you can't really anticipate until you open it 191 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: up and look at it, right, and to your points, 192 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: Punk music zines really took off in the nineteen eighties, 193 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: often combining music and politics, and it offered something unique 194 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: because these znes really captured the whole esthetic and vibe 195 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: of a subculture. And the nineties is when feminist scenes 196 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: like Riot Girl really came onto the scene. And this 197 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: was a reaction to sexism within these punk music scenes 198 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: and within the writing of punk music, and it went 199 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: on to inspire so many other znes written by women 200 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: and girls about feminism, often in conjunction with something very specific, 201 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: which all coincided with third wave feminism. Quote about it 202 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: from the Sally Bingham Collection at Duke University's Rubinstein Library. 203 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: Feminist practice emphasizes the sharing of personal experience as a 204 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: community building tool, and zines prove to be the perfect 205 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: medium for reaching out to young women across the country 206 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: in order to form the revolution. Girl Style and Yeah, 207 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: forty thousand zines were being published by nineteen ninety three 208 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: in North America. I believe right. Yeah, So you might 209 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: be thinking, but wait, I've heard so much about the 210 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: death of print, and in terms of the environment, that 211 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: might be a good thing. But zines are still out 212 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: there and have recently seen some major growth, and much 213 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: of it is in the arena of intersectional feminism, led 214 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: by more women, queer folks, and people of color. However, 215 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: just like with most things, there is still work to 216 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: be done in terms of inclusivity. One of the big 217 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: criticisms of the nineties feminist zines was that they were 218 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: largely done and based around middle class white women, and 219 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: that is changing, especially with external pressure on the publishing world, 220 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: but major issues that were compounded by things like the 221 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: pandemic still remains. So like it was seeing this really 222 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: great growth in terms of inclusivity, and then the pandemic happens, 223 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: and also capitalism ruins everything, and some big magazines are 224 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: blurring the lines between magazine and zine, especially by copying 225 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: the aesthetic of things like riot girls try to appear 226 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: like they are that thing, when that's sort of the 227 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: opposite of what zines are about. And as part of 228 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: the whole thing behind the popularity of zines amongst women 229 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: and marginalized folks is that you can talk about feminism 230 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: or whatever really without an ad about plastic surgery or 231 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: something in your publication, which you know, if you want 232 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: it all for it. But the history of magazines when 233 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: it comes to selling women a very specific image of 234 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: how they shoed look is not good. So there's it 235 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: also gives creators the space to write about other things 236 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: than women's issues or race issues, which a lot of 237 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: the writers reported like I'm tired of being asked only 238 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: to write about this. I want to write about fun 239 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: things too, or like not that those can't be fun, 240 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: but like you know. 241 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 3: Right, and I know a lot of it was like 242 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 3: I love music of all kinds and they only asked 243 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 3: me to do the specific genre of music, and it's 244 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 3: not what I'm interested in, Like I've saw that, Like 245 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: they would talk about things like that again, like dope girls. 246 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: Their whole thing was like let's talk about weed and 247 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 3: kind of well, no that wasn't their whole thing, but 248 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 3: like bringing it in and like normalizing what that looks 249 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: like in a culture that is so uptight at that 250 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: point in time. But yeah, it's very interesting to see 251 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: all of that. And again, what I witnessed was people 252 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 3: taking space and creating their own art, and a lot 253 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: of the zines, not Signs, not of the zines that 254 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: I saw at that time interweaved their artwork in the story. 255 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: So it was really interesting to see. 256 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's something else I've loved out recent fan fiction, 257 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: which we are going to get to, I promise, but 258 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: i'd love when they do that where they have like 259 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: art interspersed in the story, like I love them and 260 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm really gonna rude the day if it is Zienes 261 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: and not Zene Samantha. But it was me. I promise, 262 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: it just makes sense to me. 263 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure, right, I think I was corrected when 264 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: I first said that. 265 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: You okay, well, we'll see. We could have just looked 266 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: it up, but we're too into it now. Here's a 267 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: quote from a Guardian article written by Ruth Jamison. If 268 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: modern feminism is multifaceted by nature, there now seems to 269 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: be an independently published magazine or zine for every one 270 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: of those faces. There's Sabbat, which explores modern witchcraft through 271 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: a feminist lens, Typical Girls, which sets out to show 272 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: there's no such thing, the women only Zene Girls Club, 273 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: female general interest mag Lira or Lyra, and Private Eye 274 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: meets Vogue, satirical glossy mush pit Riposts, the smart magazine 275 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: for women burnt Rote, which showcases the talent of South 276 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: Asian women, Galdam, the print version of the popular website 277 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: for women of color of the same name, and feminist 278 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: indie mags Lady Beard and fruit Lands are amplifying women's voices, 279 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: championing female writing, and challenging ideas about what a women's 280 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: magazine can be. These publications tap into a rich history 281 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: of female protest in print. Here's the quote within the article. 282 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: Obviously there are lots of women in the media, but 283 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: they rarely control every aspect of a magazine. It's even 284 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: rarer that they own it, says Phoebe Lindsay of Fruitlands. Historically, 285 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: women have taken control of the way they are not 286 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: represented by publishing on their own terms. Think of Spare 287 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: Rib and the Riot Girls zines of the nineties. By 288 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: having our own magazine, we can control and direct every 289 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: element of our message. The lack of diversity in the 290 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: media is unbelievably frustrating, says Galdam's opinion editor Heather Barnett. 291 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: Galdam are changing that by providing a platform where women 292 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: and non binary people of color can write about whatever 293 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: they like. 294 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, the article continues. 295 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 3: The boom in independent magazine publishing has shown that print 296 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 3: is not dead. 297 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: Now. 298 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 3: Independent women's magazines are setting the standard for a more 299 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: progressive women's media. They are changing the face of women's 300 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: magazines and have their sights set on the media as 301 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 3: a whole. As Connery and Taylor says, quote, the number 302 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: of women who are running independent magazines is inspiring. 303 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 2: We're everywhere getting done. 304 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 3: It seems print is not only not dead, it has 305 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 3: also come back as a woman. Yes, I like that, 306 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: And here's a quote from Women's Media Center. Sus Meyers 307 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 3: is a graphic designer who, along with five other people, 308 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 3: organizes the NYC Feminist Zine Fest, the event that has 309 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 3: been happening since twenty eleven and offers a space to 310 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 3: first timers and old school zine makers to present their 311 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 3: work and exchange ideas. The event started with three hundred 312 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: dollars raised on GoFundMe and the purpose of quote promoting 313 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 3: the self published work of zine sters of all genders 314 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 3: as they explore a variety of feminist topics through print media. 315 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 3: The fact that zines are quote created without any mediating 316 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 3: influence from advertisers is an important aspect of the form. 317 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 3: Meyer said, a zine can be a lot of things, 318 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: and because of this, its precise definition can be wonderfully, 319 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 3: willfully difficult to pin down. 320 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: She added, Yes, and this is one of the things 321 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: I love doing this research is there's a lot of 322 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: collections or events like this for zines, and I would 323 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: love to go. 324 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure Lanta had a zene fest. I'm pretty 325 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 3: sure in the early two thousands they actually did, or 326 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 3: mid two thousands they did have a zine fest, which 327 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 3: also like what's happening cool? 328 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: Now you know? Now you know. Many zines are available 329 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,239 Speaker 1: in digital form. Some argue that they were essentially pre 330 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: Internet versions of blogs. Others argue that the physical nature 331 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,239 Speaker 1: is key to what makes a zine a zine, and 332 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: that's why one of the reasons why at least they're 333 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: experiencing a surge during the time social media, like people 334 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: want something kind of different where you can be random, 335 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: it's in your hands physical. But this brings us to 336 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: why my fan fiction sense was tingling, because the digital 337 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: bit is not necessarily about not offering a print option. 338 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: A lot of people are arguing it's about preserving for 339 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: future generations. So as discussed inner episode on Archive of 340 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: our Own or AO three, which is one of the largest, 341 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the largest fan fiction platforms in existence, 342 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: we talked about how it's just one piece of the 343 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: nonprofit the organization of Transformative Works, and as part of 344 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: their mission to preserve older fan fiction largely published in fanzines, 345 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: they recently launched the fanzine scan hosting project in collaboration 346 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: with Zenedom and basically, the goal is to preserve these 347 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: physical fan fictions on their site. And I have seen 348 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: some of the results. Was what was happening. I was like, oh, 349 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: look at this, and a handful of my favorite authors 350 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: have sort of fallen off the map to participate in it. 351 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: That was another thing I saw where they'd be like, 352 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: I gotta go scan some what was what did they say, 353 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: Cody one zines, I'll be back, And I was like, what, okay? 354 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, I've seen these fan fiction that are decades 355 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: old and they're so well written, and I'm just like, wow, 356 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: I understand why you were published. And I'm so glad 357 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: it was saved. I'm so glad I'm reading it right now. 358 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: And as mentioned before many times, most fan fiction is 359 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: created by women and other marginalized folks, which means that 360 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: those folks are largely spearheading this project. 361 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:42,959 Speaker 2: Love to see it. 362 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 3: For years, Zingdom has been scanning and archiving this material, 363 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: but this new project came in part out of frustration 364 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 3: that AO three's technology didn't really allow for uploading scanned 365 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: at fanzines, which I was wondering. 366 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: I was like, can they do that? 367 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 3: Morgan Dawn, who was leading the project, describe the difficulty 368 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 3: of uploading the scans and that once uploaded, they can't 369 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 3: be edited and many errors are often introduced. Don was 370 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 3: trying to upload a novel link fanfic with this process 371 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 3: to AO three and twenty twelve, but got annoyed with it, 372 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 3: so just put up a Google Drive link to the pdf. 373 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: Sou's like something I would do, But it was. 374 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 3: Taken down because the link was not fan work, which 375 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 3: is weird, citizen. 376 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: It's a link to fanwork, it's not fan work actual 377 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: fan work. Yes, and I have experienced this whole hassle 378 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: of converting a PDF. I hear you, just sees you. 379 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: I hear you, Yes, I really do. This led to 380 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: a whole discussion about preserving fan history, a lot of 381 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: this history in zines, and how that fell to the 382 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: fans because the fans are the ones making these things. 383 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: Don started Zendom to take on this whole thing, uploading 384 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: and converting dot with permission I'm going to talk about 385 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: the more in a second, and only a handful of volunteers. 386 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: But because of that, it just wasn't working like Don wanted, 387 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: Like the volunteer in the scheduling and the organizing and 388 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: all this technology, it wasn't working. So Don reached out 389 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: to Open Doors. A part of the organization of Transformative 390 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: works with the mission, and their mission is by the way, 391 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: preserving quote those Spanish projects that might otherwise be lost 392 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: due to lack of time, interest, our resources on the 393 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: part of the current maintainer to join in. So Don 394 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: reached out to them. Mission seems like it fits right 395 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: in with what Zeemedom's trying to do. But because of 396 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: things that we talked about in that fan fiction episode 397 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: on IO three of crackdowns on Tumblr, the shutdown of 398 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: Yahoo groups where a lot of fanfic was hosted, this 399 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: process got really really delayed. So it wasn't until I 400 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: think twenty nineteen that they started working together. Another thing, 401 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: like Okay First AO three is also run by volunteers, 402 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: and one of the things we talked about in that 403 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: episode is that their technology is old, like it's not 404 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: super old, but it needs to be updated. But it's 405 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: just like gotten so out of control that they also 406 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: are struggling with that stuff. Another thing is the tech divide. 407 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of been an issue because a lot of 408 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: fanzines were written by older people who might not be 409 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: the most tech savvy to scan and save their work. 410 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: And another thing, and this is what I found really 411 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,239 Speaker 1: fascinating and I would love to expand on this, but 412 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: people often wrote under pen names and are hard to find. 413 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: So Don talked about like calling people and having these, 414 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, maybe never finding them, or maybe finding out 415 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: that they had died, or maybe connecting with an old 416 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: relative who was so thrilled, like maybe they had lost 417 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: that relative who wrote it and was so thrilled to 418 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: have this kind of piece of like oh I didn't 419 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: know they wrote that or whatever. Because they can't upload 420 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: them without permission, they have to get the permission first. 421 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 422 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: So with this project, thousands of physical fanzines have been scanned. 423 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: Most yeah, we're found through Facebook groups are just reaching 424 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: out to the names they found in the zines. But 425 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: there are thousands and thousands and thousands more to go. 426 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: One volunteer has eight thousand Star Trek fanzines alone alone, 427 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: and I want to talk about this. I want to 428 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: do the bigger episode on this one day because it 429 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: was so interesting. But the Kirk Spock fan fiction archive 430 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: was one of the first to be imported to AO three, 431 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: and it was being run by a fan who'd taken 432 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: on the task of maintaining an archive of zines in 433 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: that arena. Notably, this fandom is also the source of 434 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: a lot of our more modern Spanish spaces and understanding, 435 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: including Slash and the ripple effects that that had, and 436 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the women writing about why they were 437 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: writing Kirk AND's back is a romantic couple, and they 438 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: were talking about how they identified with Spock is not 439 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: belonging anywhere and getting all this like guff for the 440 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: It was just really interesting, really really interesting to see 441 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: the ripple effects of that. Open Doors is starting to 442 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: archive Zendom's links and is working with universities and other 443 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: institutions to make these scenes available online to the public, 444 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: which it hasn't previously been the case, Like some universities 445 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 1: have these collections, but you had to be a student 446 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: and go in person to see them. So that's a 447 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: piece of it too. From a twenty twenty two article 448 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: by Jay Costello. And this is a long quote, so 449 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: bear with me. It means not being forgotten, said Maggie Nowakowska, 450 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: the co editor of Geek Elders Speak, an anthology of 451 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: essays by older women in fandom. Now Akowska herself is 452 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: seventy three, and I hope I'm not put shuring your name. 453 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: One reason for preserving and celebrating that history is the 454 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: fact that so many of the franchise is key to 455 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: phantom history. Likes Star Trek and Star Wars have a 456 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: reputation of being for boys, whereas fanfic and fanzines have 457 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: traditionally been a space dominated by women. They don't think 458 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: we ever existed. They don't know that women did all 459 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: these things, says Nawakowska. Julie Baza, an Australian fanzine author 460 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: and publisher who volunteers with Open Doors, also emphasizes that 461 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: preservation isn't just about making sure the best fan fiction 462 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: is available to readers. It's about preserving the culture and 463 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: history that got us to where we are now. It's 464 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: really interesting to get an idea of the bigger picture, 465 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: she says, what tropes are being written about and why 466 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: at different times, how have things changed. For instance, fan 467 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: fiction has often been celebrated for its ability to give 468 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: writers and readers a chance to explore their gender and sexuality. 469 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: This terminology has changed with words like lemon denoting explicit 470 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: sexual content and even slash denoting male male relationships falling 471 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: out of favor, but knowing how and why they were 472 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: used as important in understanding how same sex relationships and 473 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: women's sexualities were even more police than they are today. 474 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: At the same time, preservation can also demonstrate the sheer 475 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: breadth of fanworks. Baza shared some scans with me, which 476 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: include a series of haiku inspired by eighties sci fi 477 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: movie Buckeru Bonzai. For instance, when you open up fanzine, 478 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: you'll see cartoons, you'll see essays, you'll see poetry, you'll 479 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: see snarky little comments, you'll see letters of comment said 480 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: now a Kawska, And that's a totally different experience than 481 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: just reading one story, which I love. They were kind 482 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: of talking about that in terms of, you know, like 483 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: if you go to fan fiction dot net, which is 484 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: what they're talking about with the slash. The reason we 485 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: say slash is because if you said, like Kirk and 486 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: Amper sans block. That's a friendship. If you say Kirk 487 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: slash block, that is a romantic relationship. But that's not 488 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: everybody uses fanfiction dot Net anymore, Like that's not how 489 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: it is necessarily on every site, although it is still 490 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: in my case that's what I usually see. But I 491 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: love that, and I love like this idea of when 492 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: you open a fanzine. It's not like when you click 493 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: a tag and you know what you're looking for and 494 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: you know what you're gonna get probably, but you could 495 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: get a series of Miker that's amazing. 496 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 497 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, wow, you just brought me back it really, 498 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 3: like I forgot about this. Yeah, it's been so cool. Yeah, 499 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 3: it was cool. It's something that I'm like, I love it, 500 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 3: but I would never have the courage to do it 501 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: because I'm not artistic. I think I actually participating in 502 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 3: putting like a Stanza in one. I could be making 503 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 3: this up, but this seems familiar, like I'm having a time, 504 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 3: or maybe I was just around when people did that. 505 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: I don't remember. 506 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 3: I remember buying because I loved going to local readings, 507 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 3: like we have a lot of good writers in Atlanta. 508 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: We know this. 509 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 3: iHeart has been blessed with some of our writers recently 510 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 3: of fiction, including yourself, including There was a thing called 511 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 3: Write Club, and I don't know they're still going in 512 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: I believe our one of our producers, Mike Johns, was 513 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 3: a part of that. She was a big founding and 514 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 3: beginning of that, and I remember hearing her read uh there. 515 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 3: So shout out to one of the producers of iHeart 516 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 3: and Our Family rather who began this and seeing different 517 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 3: writers go up and give an essay and have a moment. 518 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 3: But in that same group, they did zine clubs and 519 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 3: I think they still do Actually, now that you say that, 520 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: I feel like it's been years since I attended one 521 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 3: of those, but I think they still do it. Yeah, 522 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: And I know Right Club is I think a national thing, 523 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 3: but it's the Right Club in Atlanta was started by them, 524 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 3: and I remember them selling independently published books and independent zines. 525 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: Like now that i'm thinking about it, and it's been 526 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: several years since I've attended one, they still do that, 527 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 3: and I love that aspect of it because it brings 528 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 3: a lot of personality to these writings and yeah. 529 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 2: Wow, you've really got me back. And as in fact, 530 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: I just had to look through. 531 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 3: Twitter because it's not part of your world, you don't know, which, 532 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 3: thank you very much for bringing it back. 533 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: Into my world. 534 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 3: There's one group called Queer Circle and I believe they're 535 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 3: based out of the UK that did a thing called Atazine, 536 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 3: which they did in December, which they brought over one 537 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 3: hundred zines submitted by different people from all over the world, 538 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 3: all of the world from the queer community. And I'm like, hell, yeah, 539 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 3: this stuff like that is so amazing and I forgot 540 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: the impact of things like this. 541 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this was a really fun one to research 542 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: because I kind of knew about them, but I didn't 543 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: know too much. I'm so glad that this project is happening, 544 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: that these fanzines are getting preserved, because I there was 545 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: a lot of other Honestly, we talked about this before, Samantha. 546 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: Sometimes we just want to quote like entire articles because 547 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, yes, this is it. But a lot 548 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: of the older women they interviewed were like, yeah, oh, 549 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want this to get 550 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: lost because I think other people will still enjoy it 551 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: and it's such a good marker of where the fandom 552 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: was then, so why should it get lost just because 553 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: you know the Internet wasn't around then, right, So I 554 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 1: don't know. It makes me very happy. 555 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it encompasses so many mediums to this that it's 556 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: a phenomenal thing and that being digitized would be an 557 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 3: amazing thing to preserve things. I would love to see 558 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 3: some of the nineteen thirties zines. I want to know 559 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: what those are. Someone give me a copy, because they're 560 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: also like aesthetically pleasing because for me, I love variety 561 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: and it doesn't need to be clean. I need, like 562 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 3: I love it's not chaos, but the variety within it 563 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 3: and the way they bring it together that I'm like, yeah, 564 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: this is fun. This is an amusing thing that you 565 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 3: can see and it's someone's take of whatever they're publishing 566 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 3: or whether they're trying to send out. 567 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, huh yeah yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, 568 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: I have been enjoying the fan fiction. Everybody, thanks who 569 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: is doing that up looking it because I've been like 570 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: blown away, legitimately almost texted you and I was like, I'm 571 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: reading a fair fiction that is so much better than 572 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: so much of the official stuff out there, Like wow, 573 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: And it would have been lost, It would have been lost, 574 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: and that's just yeah, I don't, I don't want it. 575 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm I don't. I'm very happy. Uh So if anybody 576 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: listening is participating in this or has any thoughts about this, 577 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: that would be great. Uh. But yeah, it is pretty 578 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: beautiful to bring like one topic and see all these 579 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: different takes on it, all these I don't know, it 580 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: is really cool. Pretty much anyone can make one. There 581 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: are tutorials online if you're interested. Uh, if you have 582 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: made one, oh my goodness, let us know, yes, yes, 583 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: And if you have any suggestions, because we did go 584 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: over some in that middle part, but there are a 585 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: lot right now and it's a lot is happening, and 586 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: especially in yeah, kind of the intersectional feminist realm of zine. 587 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: So send to those our way. 588 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe we can do that as a book club somehow. 589 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: That'd be cool. I think we could. I think we 590 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: could well. In the meantime, if you got any of 591 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: those suggestions or thoughts about this at all, you can 592 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: email us ATEFPIA mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You 593 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at most Stuff podcast or 594 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: on Instagram a stuff I've Never told you. Thanks as 595 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina. 596 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 2: Thank you, Christina, Yes, and. 597 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stuff on ever Told You 598 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: the Direction? From iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 599 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 600 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: or reeve you listen to your favorite shows.