1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: From the brain's point of view, What is the self? 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: How do you put together thirty six trillion cells and 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: have it feel like one thing? Does the self of 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: a blind person include the tip of the walking stick? 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: How flexible is our sense of self? And what does 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: any of this have to do with psychedelics or trauma, 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: or synchronized swimmers, or religious rituals or cheerleaders, or why 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: soldiers across time and place love to march in unison 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: in lockstep. Welcome to Inner Cosmos with me David Eagleman. 10 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford and I've 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: spent my career at the intersection between how the brain 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: works and how we experience life. So I'm going to 13 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: beget in today's episode with a question that I've wondered 14 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: about since i was a kid. Something I've always found 15 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: amazing is watching armies, thousands of soldiers march in perfect lockstep. 16 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: And even as a kid, I noticed that across the world, 17 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: all armies did this and this goes back to the 18 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: earliest days of armies. And I know this because when 19 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: I was younger, I read about how the Romans discovered 20 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: a problem where if they marched in lockstep over a bridge. 21 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: It would sometimes hit the resonance frequency of the bridge 22 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: and then it would collapse. So they learned from their mistakes, 23 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: and whenever they came to a bridge, they would purposely 24 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: go out of sync with one another and they would 25 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: cross the bridge that way. But the point is that 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: they normally marched in lockstep. They, like all modern armies, 27 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: loved acting as a mega organism. So why do armies 28 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: love to synchronize? I mean, why not just have all 29 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: the soldiers walk asynchronously however they want to, as long 30 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: as they keep up well. One hypothesis would be that 31 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: an army marching in lockstep is intimidating. You see something 32 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: coming at you. That's like a giant, unified, single minded monster. 33 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: And a related hypothesis could be that an army stepping 34 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: with precision timing represents discipline and training, the way we 35 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: watch dancers or synchronized swimmers, and across sports like ballet 36 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: or cheerleader or whatever, athletes pursue this kind of perfect synchronization. 37 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: In other words, the army does it not just because 38 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: it's scary, but also because it represents discipline and training 39 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: to get there. And these both seem like reasonable hypotheses. 40 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: But I have something else to segest today, something that 41 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: I think you might find quite surprising and hopefully enlightening 42 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: because of all the other things that it sheds light on. 43 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: So what seems like an arbitrary question can sometimes unearth 44 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: a lot. But first, let's start at the beginning. So 45 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: let's step back to sixteen thirty seven, when Renee de 46 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: Kartes famously wrote Japan's don't suis I think? Therefore I am? 47 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: Now when he says I, we all understand what he 48 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: means here, we think, but what exactly is the I 49 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 1: If you think it's obvious what the self is, get 50 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: ready for some eye openers, because we're going to see 51 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: how the self emerges from computations in the brain and 52 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: how it can morph in unexpected ways. So let's start 53 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: by noting that nothing seems more obvious than you feel 54 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: like a single entity. But that's strange because you're actually 55 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: built out of thirty six trillion individual cells communicating through 56 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: chemical and electrical signals. But you don't feel like that. 57 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: You don't feel like a swirling bath of seven billion, 58 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: billion billion atoms, not to mention that you're constantly shedding 59 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: atoms and gaining new ones, such that your body is 60 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: composed of entirely new atoms about every seven years. Despite 61 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,679 Speaker 1: all this, you feel like one stable thing. You feel 62 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: like you. You have a name, You have a history 63 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: and a memory, and a personality. You have desires, and 64 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: you are unique personality. You have a self, and that 65 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: self seems to be located right behind your eyeballs. Now 66 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: this is wild, right, because consider other scenarios in which 67 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: there are lots of pieces and parts working together. Let's 68 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: say I go out to some big field and I 69 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: set up a bunch of and pulleys and levers, and 70 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: I start hooking everything up and this turns that, and 71 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: that affects that, and this lever pulls that thing, and 72 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: I start adding more and more parts in this big 73 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: crazy machine gets larger and larger. Here's the question, At 74 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: what point do I add one more lever and I say, ah, 75 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: Now this is no longer a Frankensteinian collection of trillions 76 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: of individual pieces, but suddenly it has the experience of 77 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: a living unity. Or just take your computer. It's made 78 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: of billions of transistors and resistors and capacitors. It's sending 79 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: zeros and ones all around. But the question is does 80 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: your MacBook pro have a sense of itself? Do you 81 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: think it ever aspires to be something greater in its life? 82 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: Or does it feel a sense of embarrassment and its 83 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: performance sometimes, or does it ever desire to be loved 84 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: by another computer? Now, the reason your sense of self 85 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: is so mysterious is because your brain is just made 86 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: up of pieces and parts cells with straightforward properties, each 87 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: cell by itself as just doing basic sell things. So 88 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: why does this giant collection, when hooked up and interacting 89 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: in the right way, have a unified sense of a 90 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: single you interacting with the world through time. You have 91 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: this conscious perception of yourself as a thing such that 92 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: the thirty six trillion cells that comprise you can collaborate 93 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: to go to a dance club tonight, or meet friends 94 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: at the coffee shop, or go to a bookstore, or 95 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: take a road trip across the nation, acting like a 96 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: single thing. So why do you feel like a unified entity? Now? 97 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: The answer, presumably is an evolutionary one. Those cells are 98 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: all hanging together, and this collection has to take the 99 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: whole vast complet space of possibilities and crunch it down 100 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: to a single decision. For example, your body can go 101 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: to the left or go to the right to get 102 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: around the tree, but you can't do both, and that's 103 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: why you have to squeeze down all the chattering of 104 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: billions of neurons to a single choice and control your 105 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: trillions of cells to do something that makes sense in 106 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: the outside world. I've mentioned before that the brain is 107 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: typically celebrated for its parallel processing, but in fact, just 108 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: as importantly it should be celebrated for its serialization. In 109 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: other words, its ability to conclude something, to decide something 110 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: from the vast space of possibilities, to take all the 111 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: rumbling trillions of cells and get to a single conclusion 112 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: about what to do next. So that's presumably why you 113 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: have a unified sense. But the story gets stranger from 114 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: here because the sense of self is not fixed, it's 115 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: not nailed into place. Instead, it's quite fluid, and in 116 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: many scenarios what we find is a dissolution of the self. 117 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: For example, various drugs can have profound effects on an 118 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: individual's sense of self. They lead to an alteration of 119 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: one's identity. And this is amazing, right, because these are 120 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: invisibly small molecules with particular shapes, and when they enter 121 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: your system and bind to particular receptors in your brain 122 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: and change the activity just a little bit, then this 123 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: neural technology that builds selfness breaks down. For example, a 124 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: lot of psychedelic drugs do this. They bind to particular 125 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: receptors here and there, and they cause profound alterations in 126 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: the feeling of self. Think of LSD or SILAS or DMT. 127 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: What happens when people take this is they report a 128 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: dissolving of their ego boundaries, leading to experiences of what's 129 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: sometimes called an ego death, meaning the loss of self identity. 130 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: You also have substances like ketamine or PCP or some 131 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:27,359 Speaker 1: synthetic cannabinoids, and these can trigger feelings of depersonalization and dissociation. 132 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: In other words, people on these drugs get a sense 133 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: of detachment from their own body, or their emotions or 134 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: their surroundings, so they have a distorted perception of self. 135 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: And you sometimes see this with certain psychiatric medications when 136 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: they're misused or taken in appropriately. They can alter cognition 137 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 1: and emotion and often lead to a feeling of disconnection 138 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: from a person's identity or sense of self, and all 139 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: throughout the drug world, you find people mixing different drugs 140 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: together and getting all kinds of severe things like dissociation 141 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: and confusion and a loss of coherent self awareness. So 142 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: what does this tell us? In all these situations, we 143 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: see how invisibly small molecules can disrupt the normal, very 144 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: delicate functioning of the brain, and that busts up the 145 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: computation of the self. And you can find the same 146 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: thing not just from the influence of molecules, but also 147 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: from the influence of experiences. Just look at something like 148 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: post traumatic stress disorder. Beyond the emotional challenges that we 149 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: find there, we also find cognitive impacts like a pervasive 150 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: sense of disconnection from one's identity and a loss of 151 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: coherence in self perception. For example, sometimes people report feeling 152 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: like an object rather than a person. Now, what happens 153 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: when we measure the effects of post traumatic stress disorder 154 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: in the brain. While there's a network called the default 155 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: mode network, and this network is critical for constructing one 156 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: sense of self, and in post traumatic stress disorder, for example, 157 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: you can find in neuroimaging that the connectivity gets disrupted, 158 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: and this appears to correlate with problems with one's perceived 159 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: sense of self. This feeling that people sometimes have in 160 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: post traumatic stress disorder, where they say they don't know 161 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: who they are, where they feel like they've stopped existing. 162 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: What this reflects is a disruption in their networks that 163 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: are critical to computing the self, and we see disruptions 164 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: of the self in closely related clinical settings also, for example, 165 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: in dissociative identity disorder. This is where people usually who 166 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: have been through some trauma, will have a fragment of 167 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: their self into different identities. They switch personalities. They can 168 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,599 Speaker 1: have these sudden changes in mood and in their behavior, 169 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: and family members can usually tell when a person switches 170 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: their personality. And by the way, they often get amnesia. 171 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: They can't remember what they said just a few minutes 172 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: ago when they were speaking as one of their other personalities. 173 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: I'll just note that often people with dissociative identity disorder 174 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: are misdiagnosed as having schizophrenia because their beliefs are interpreted 175 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: as a delusion. But I think more properly this could 176 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: be interpreted as yet another demonstration that the brain has 177 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: to go through an enormous amount of very delicate work 178 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: to construct the self, and there are lots of ways 179 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: this can be disrupted. Now, how can we study this? 180 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: In the lab, one of my colleagues at Stanford, Joseph Parvizi, 181 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: was studying patients with epilep see people who have electrical 182 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: seizures in the brain. So one day one of his 183 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: patients with APLEPSI tells him every time I have a seizure, 184 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: I have a sense of depersonalization and dissociation. Everything's unreal, 185 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: It's like it's not happening to me. And Parvez finds 186 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: out that this patient's seizures started in a tiny brain 187 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: area right in the brain's midline, called the anterior precuneus. 188 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: And there was something very interesting about this area because 189 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: it's not part of the default mode network, which I 190 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: mentioned a moment ago, but instead it's a node at 191 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: the center of a different network consisting of different areas. 192 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: And this network integrates data about where you are and 193 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: how you're moving, and where your muscles and joints are, 194 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: so it's involved in building a mental map of your 195 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: physical self. Now, just before I tell you more about this, 196 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: one of the things I think is interesting is how 197 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: parvs this ditinguishes between the I and the me. He says, Look, 198 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: for every action we take, even during dreams, there's always 199 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: an agent behind it. We call that agent I. But 200 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: me is everything we have stored in our memories about 201 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: the I. In other words, the eye has to do 202 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: with your sense of your body in the immediate here 203 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: and now, with a particular point of view, a first 204 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: person perspective that belongs to only you. But the me, 205 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: that's the narrative self, that has to do with actively 206 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: or passively thinking about your past life or planning your future, 207 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: things like memory and habits and personality, emotions, feelings for others, 208 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: what lies ahead, and so on. Okay, now here's the 209 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: key point from the brain's point of view. These two 210 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: functions of the eye and the me, they're actually underpinned 211 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: by separate networks of brain areas. These networks interact, they're 212 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: not the same. So the me involving my memory, inhabits 213 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: and personality and emotions, that mostly involves the default mode network. 214 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: But the eye, which gives my sense of my particular 215 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: point of view right now, that involves this other network 216 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: where the anterior precunius sits at the center. And what 217 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: Parvizi found is when that network becomes disrupted, let's say 218 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: by an epileptic seizure that disrupts your self in the 219 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: here and now. So he stuck electrodes into the anterior 220 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: precuneus and zaps with electricity, and people say that something 221 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: weird happens to their sense of physical self. They get 222 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: a depersonalization, similar to what happens with psychedelics. It's not 223 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: an out of body experience. People still feel like they're 224 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: in their bodies, but they generally feel like there's a 225 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: change in their orientation or their location, depending on where 226 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: the stimulation happens. They feel like they're floating, your sinking, 227 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: and it doesn't make any sense when they look around 228 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: and they see where they are. And so their report 229 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: was that the world around them seemed unreal. So again 230 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: I want to be clear that you require this extraordinarily specific, 231 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: delicate operation of multiple networks in the brain to make 232 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: you feel a particular way, to give you an eye 233 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: that's anchored in space with a point of view, and 234 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: a me with a stable sense of who you are, 235 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: and a connection to your memories and your sense as 236 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: an individual. Now, assuming you have average good luck, then 237 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: you'll never even be conscious of this perspective on the world. 238 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: But if your brain gets disrupted from drugs or trauma 239 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: or epilepsy, you're suddenly going to see it. Your world 240 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: will seem unreal, and you'll come to understand that the 241 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: self is a construction of the brain and needs all 242 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 1: the pieces and parts to be running just right. Okay, 243 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: so what we've talked about so far is the way 244 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: the self can get disrupted. But now I want to 245 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: switch gears to a less studied area. Instead of the 246 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: dissolution of the self, I want to consider the expansion 247 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: of the self. Now. I started thinking about this many 248 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: years ago, even when I was a kid. I noticed 249 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: that when you ride a bicycle, and maybe you accidentally, 250 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: without meaning to, you run over a little worm that's 251 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: crawled onto the sidewalk, and you recoil as though you'd 252 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: physically stepped on the worm yourself with your bare feet, 253 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: even though it was only the bicycle that touched the worm. 254 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: So I started wondering if the bicycle becomes essentially a 255 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: part of you, an extension of the self of some sort. 256 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: And then when I got to college, I ended up 257 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: reading some philosophers like Maurice Merleau Ponti and Gregory Bateson 258 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: who posed a question like this about a blind man 259 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: with a stick. The question was where does the blind 260 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: man's self end and the rest of the world begin. 261 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: You can think of the stick as like an extended 262 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: cognitive system that pulls in information from the world. So 263 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: does the blind man end at the handle of the 264 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: stick or at the tip of the stick? Or does 265 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: his self end somewhere in between? As Merleau Ponti wrote, quote, 266 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: the blind man's cane has ceased to be an object 267 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: for him. It's no longer perceived for itself. Rather, the 268 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: caine's furthest point is transformed into a sensitive zone end quote. 269 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: In other words, since the world is a deserved through 270 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: the stick, it becomes part of the man's self. So 271 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: humans alter the borders of their self all the time 272 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: by using new instruments. I talked way back in episode 273 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: two about dogs who learn how to ride skateboards, and 274 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: even though wheels are not a part of the evolutionary 275 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: history of canines, it becomes part of the dog. They 276 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: become one with the skateboard, and I talked about surfing 277 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: dogs even though the dog skeleton didn't evolve to be 278 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: big and long and flat. The dog has no trouble 279 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: incorporating the surfboard into its body plan into itsself. So 280 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: we're not limited by the borders of our skin, but 281 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: instead these self can expand. And I've also previously mentioned 282 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: some experiments that were done years ago where a monkey 283 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: learns to use a little rake to get some food 284 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: that he couldn't otherwise reach. And once the monkey becomes 285 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: proficient at this, there are cells in its brains sells 286 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: that command actions and sells that sense what's going on. 287 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: These cells change to include the rake in the space 288 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: that they care about, what's known as their receptive field. 289 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: In other words, the rake literally becomes part of the monkey. 290 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: So whether we're talking about bicycle tires or walking canes 291 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: for the blind, or the monkey and the rake, we 292 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: see that the notion of the self has flexibility. It's 293 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: not something that's just genetically pre programmed and fixed into place. 294 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: So how does the body decide what to include what 295 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: makes up the self? Well, in my last book, Live Wired, 296 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: I proposed an answer to this. In part, it's about control. 297 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: If the brain can control something, it becomes part of 298 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: the self. So, for example, when my brain sends out 299 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: signals to move my arm. My arm follows the commands, 300 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: and therefore it becomes part of my self. The monkey's 301 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: rake becomes part of what it can use and command 302 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: in the world, so it becomes in a sense, part 303 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 1: of its body. Now. Fundamentally, remember the brain is locked 304 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: in silence and darkness, and so what does command mean 305 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: to it? Fundamentally, it's all about prediction. Now. In an 306 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: earlier episode forty four, we dove into the issue about 307 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: the brain being a prediction machine. That's all it's trying 308 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: to do. Locked in silence and darkness, It's trying to 309 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: figure out what's happening in the world out there, And 310 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: for really sophisticated brains like ours, it's not just about 311 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: reacting to what happened, but instead having a model of 312 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: the world that makes predictions about what will happen. So 313 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: given this, what else can become a part of the cell. 314 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: We are used to our brains controlling just our limbs, 315 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: and this is because evolution has built us with muscle 316 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: and tendons and nerves. But evolution never came up with 317 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: controlling distant limbs via bluetooth. So in theory, if you 318 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: could control a robotic arm with your brain, or a 319 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: metal avatar that's all the way across town. This would 320 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: become part of your self. And one question is what 321 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: consequence would this have for your conscious experience. The answer 322 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: is that the robot or the avatar would be perceived 323 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: as a part of you. It would be another limb. 324 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: It would be an unusual limb because of the physical 325 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: gap between you and it, but it would nonetheless qualify 326 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: as an extension of you. Think of the Avatar movies. 327 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,719 Speaker 1: The protagonist Jake Sully thinks of something he wants to 328 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: do with his limited body, and the eight foot all 329 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: avatar moves accordingly, and therefore the avatar becomes an extension 330 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: of his self. By the way, you see this all 331 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: the time. In the military. A soldier is in charge 332 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: of driving a bomb sniffing robot, and everything the soldier 333 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: commands with his joystick, the robot does. And at some point, 334 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: if the robot gets blown up, it's not unusual to 335 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: see one of these soldiers crying and heartbroken. It's like 336 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: a part of them physically has been lost. Now, if 337 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: this kind of extension of the self seems strange, just 338 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: remember that you have everyday experience with this. Whenever you 339 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: look in a mirror and move your body around, you 340 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: see a distant object move in perfect synchrony with your 341 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: motor commands. Your brain says, lift your arm, and you 342 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: see this thing across the room, lift its arm. It's 343 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: a perfect prediction. And so when you do that, you 344 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: understand the reflection as your self. You don't feel any 345 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: direct sensation from the distant limbs, but your brain registers 346 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: the prediction. Every time I send out a command for X, 347 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: that body over there does X, and that's enough for 348 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: your reflection to become a member of the selfhood tribe. 349 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: And one of the things I've written about recently is 350 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: expanding oneself using virtual reality. You're in a virtual world 351 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: and you raise your arm and you see your virtual 352 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: avatar and the virtual mirror raise its arm. You tilt 353 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: your head and it tilts its head. Now, interestingly, people 354 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: are studying this in the context of empathy, because you 355 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: can put someone else's face on the virtual avatar. Let's 356 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: say someone of a different gender and a different race, 357 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: and the question is how do you feel after having 358 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: them be a part of you for a while. And 359 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: you can experiment with very different kinds of bodies in VR. 360 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: What if in a VR world you're one hundred feet tall, 361 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: or you have eight legs or three arms. In all 362 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: of these cases, you can learn to control that body, 363 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: to predict what's happening, and then that body becomes you. 364 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: The identity of the self is surprisingly flexible. So what 365 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: I've proposed is that what the body can control becomes 366 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: the self. And this all pivots on predictability, and so 367 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: one tragic lesson we can glean from this is what 368 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: happens when a person gets damage to their peripheral nerves 369 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: so they can no longer control their limb. And what 370 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: happens is they can get a disorder called asomatic nosea, 371 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: which means they now deny ownership of the limb that 372 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: they can't control. So as somatic nosia means not knowing 373 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: one's body. And in the clinics you'll find the strangest 374 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: things where somebody will say this leg does not belong 375 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: to me, and sometimes they'll insist that the limb belongs 376 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: to somebody else. They'll attribute the leg to, say a 377 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 1: dead friend or a relative, or a phantasm or a devil, 378 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: or one of the doctors taking care of them. They'll 379 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: say the leg was sewn onto her, but it's not hers. 380 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: She'll explain that her own real limb was stolen or 381 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: is simply missing. And in variance of this disorder, people 382 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: will sometimes construe the limb as an animal, perhaps like 383 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: a snake, with its own independent life force and intentions. 384 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: But the point is it's no longer a part of 385 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: their self. So I was surprised when I found there 386 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: was no gold standard explanation for this in the literature. 387 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: But you'll have no trouble guessing my proposal, which is 388 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: that the brain can no longer control the limb, and 389 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: so the limb falls from the brotherhood of the self. 390 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: By the way, sometimes these patients have a small window 391 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: of lucidity in which they re recognize their limb as 392 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: their own, but it doesn't last long. I hypothesize that 393 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: this might result when the leg happens to move the 394 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: way that they had intended accidental predictability. That might be 395 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: a feeling of wanting to move the foot to the left, 396 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: and then the foot happens to move that way, which 397 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: leads the owner to take credit for the action. And 398 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: given a person's lifelong experience of controlling her leg It 399 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: should come as no surprise that even a temporary impression 400 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: of control can snap it back into alignment with the self, 401 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: even if just for a moment. So what you can 402 00:27:53,800 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: predict becomes part of the self. Now. One of the 403 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: places this becomes really interesting is with relationships, because when 404 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: you come to know someone well, you in a sense 405 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: expand yourself. They become a part of you. Again. This 406 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: is because the brain is a prediction machine. You've spent 407 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: a lot of time with the people in your life, 408 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: and so you have rich predictions about them. You have 409 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: increasingly sophisticated guesses about what they're going to do in 410 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: some situation, and in this sense they become a part 411 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: of you. Now, your predictions about other people are never 412 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: going to be perfect, and those people will often surprise you. 413 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: And so the degree to which your spouse or friend, 414 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: your family member remains unpredictable is the degree to which 415 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: she or he remains different from the self, remains independent 416 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: from you. Nonetheless, they are, to a greater or lesser degree, 417 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: a part of your brain's notion of the self, because 418 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: you have some degree of prediction about them, and as 419 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: a result, you can be proud of their accomplishments and 420 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: feel happy when they're happy, and sad when they're sad. 421 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 1: And part of what's hard about a breakup or the 422 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: death of a loved one is it something like a 423 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: self contraction. Okay, so now we're set up to return 424 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: to the question that I posed at the beginning of 425 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,239 Speaker 1: the episode. Why do soldiers march in lockstep? And I 426 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: think you can now guess my hypothesis. It's not just 427 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: about intimidation, it's not just about discipline. It's about giving 428 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: each soldier the usion of a larger self. If you 429 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: are an individual soldier, you experience this expansion of the self, 430 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 1: this enlargement because there are all these other bodies moving 431 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: in a way that is precisely predictable by your brain. 432 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: Your brain sends out motor commands that say, okay, stomp 433 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: my right leg exactly now. And after that command goes 434 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: out from the brain and down the spinal cord, it 435 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: witnesses the power of a thousand legs, all stomping at 436 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: the same moment. Your brain has sent out a command, 437 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: and you feel the earthshake as a result. It's empowering 438 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: to be part of a group because your self now 439 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: consists of thousands of bodies. There are a dozen ways 440 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: to look at this issue of marching in lockstep socially, 441 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: but from the neuroscience point of view, when you do 442 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: stuff in synchrony with others, there's an expansion of the 443 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: brain's construction of this self. So this is my hypothesis 444 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: for why we see so much synchronization around us. You 445 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: see this in Japanese festivals where everyone is doing the 446 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: same thing at the same time. Or take the Hodge, 447 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: which is this annual Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca. You've got 448 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: pilgrims from all over the world travel to Mecca to 449 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: flow around this big cube at the center of the 450 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: Grand Mosque. Is very stunning to see hundreds of thousands 451 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: of bodies swirling like a larger mega organism. And this 452 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: is typical of religious ritual. If you only knew neuroscience 453 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: and knew nothing about societal behavior, you might predict the 454 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: existence of this sort of thing because the commands from 455 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: each pilgrim's brain is multiplied by the feedback from hundreds 456 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: of thousands of other pilgrims, and that kind of feedback 457 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,719 Speaker 1: is intoxicating to human brains. And as I said, you 458 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: find this sort of synchronization in all religious rituals. Everyone 459 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: is doing the same thing at the same time, ideally 460 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: in the same costume. And I propose that it's not 461 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: accidental everyone stands and sits at the same time, or 462 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: genuflex or chants. When you look across religions, I suspect 463 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: that the details of the rituals don't matter much at all. Instead, 464 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: it's the allure of learning how to fuse your identity 465 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: with a larger group. You think, wow, I can learn 466 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: the steps, the moves, the words here and be part 467 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: of a larger self. That is the promise that is 468 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: being offered to you. You never find religious rituals where 469 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: everything is desynchronized, where the promise is come into my religion, 470 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,959 Speaker 1: where we each do our own thing. You walk in 471 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: whenever you want, you face wherever you want, Everyone sing 472 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: and chant out of tune. You just don't see religions 473 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: where there's no bigger voice, no bigger self acting in unison. 474 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,959 Speaker 1: And of course you find exactly the same synchronization in 475 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: non religious ceremonies. One hypothesis about the origin of music 476 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: and dancing is that this came from early primates who 477 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: would synchronize with one another, and when we dance, we 478 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: see this. If you're an observer of human behavior, it's 479 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: hard to ignore that humans love to be synchronized on 480 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: the dance floor. And you can imagine a bunch of 481 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: early primates sitting around and all banging rocks together, making 482 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: shouts or chants that aren't random but synchronized. You can 483 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: see how the drive for a larger self could be 484 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: at the root of this. And when you start looking 485 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: for humans synchronizing, you see it everywhere. You see it 486 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: in group exercise classes like yoga or dance or aerobics. 487 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: Everyone's doing the same thing at the same time, and 488 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: that synchronization fosters this sense of unity. You get the 489 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: same thing in choirs where everyone sings together, or at 490 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: music concerts, where the crowds synchronize their movements to the 491 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: rhythm of the music. They sway, they clap, they sing 492 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 1: along together. At sports events, you have fans synchronize their 493 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: chance just like a protest marches. What's happening if you're 494 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: at the event is that your brain sends commands to 495 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: your larynx with the prediction that it will hear your 496 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: voice in return. But now you hear your voice times 497 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: a thousand, and you feel like your self is larger 498 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: and more powerful. So let's wrap this up. My interest 499 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: is in this question of where does your self end 500 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: and others begin? And although you think you end at 501 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: the borders of your skin, you're actually a flexible creature, 502 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: extending past what you can see and feel, incorporating it 503 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: tooferent times, your family, your partners, your teams, the culture 504 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: in which you're embedded. And I think looking at this 505 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: from the neuroscience point of view is a very powerful 506 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: way to understand rituals and dancing inquires and religious ceremonies. 507 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: Even on the political scale. It might shed light on 508 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 1: our study of in groups and outgroups, and our understanding 509 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: of things like patriotism. And this all fundamentally comes down 510 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: to an extension of this self, which always reminds me 511 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: to question, what would happen if you were born in 512 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: a different culture, a different neighborhood, a different era in time. 513 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: Would you be you? Presumably not in a way that 514 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: we would recognize. You are wired up by the world 515 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: that you happen to be in. All of it, to 516 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: a lesser or greater degree, becomes part of what your 517 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: brain considers your self. So I'm fascinated with this question 518 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: of how we draw the limits of our selves. For example, 519 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: I'm thinking some thoughts, and I jot notes throughout the week, 520 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: and I go into my studio and record this podcast, 521 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: and you listen to it. But it might be a 522 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: week later after I've recorded it, or maybe you are 523 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: listening to this long after I'm dead, and yet we're 524 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: still communicating. I'm taking ideas from my head and capturing 525 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: them in zeros and ones stored on a server somewhere, 526 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: and eventually that gets transmitted over the Internet or maybe 527 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: in a century, over Internet twelve to your device, and 528 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: then my words reach you, and you're suddenly connected with me. 529 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm right next to you, I'm in your ear, I'm 530 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: in your brain. My words make physical changes to the 531 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: networks inside your head. And if we're alive at the 532 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 1: same time, you can send me an email and I 533 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: read the words on the screen that you wrote, and 534 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: we are connected. And with our current communication technologies, this 535 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: is more true than ever that our brains have the 536 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: opportunity to expand the self, from literature to television, to 537 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: podcasts to the Internet. We increasingly have the opportunity to 538 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: become larger than we would otherwise be. Please visit eagleman 539 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast for more information and to find 540 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: further reading. Send me an email at podcast at eagleman 541 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: dot com with questions or discussion, and check out and 542 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: subscribe to Inner Cosmos on YouTube for videos of each 543 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: episode and to leave comments. Until next time, I'm David 544 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: Eagleman and this is Inner Cosmos