Speaker 1: My name is Clay and Nucleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.
Speaker 1: Did Isaac get new boots? And what's happening to Brent's feet?
Speaker 1: Let's start with Isaac. I'm new boot. Those are those
Speaker 1: are different than the ones before? Wow, they've got some
Speaker 1: kind of metallic kind of looks like Allard Metallica. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what happened. I was at the Delta
Speaker 1: Waterfowl Expo and Little Rock and I straight surfed across
Speaker 1: the bathroom floor. There was a layer of moisture that
Speaker 1: I hope was from a recent mopping, but I doubt
Speaker 1: and just stop myself by banging my shins right into
Speaker 1: the jurnal because I had I had leather leather sole
Speaker 1: boots on, so I went for the hybrid ub So
Speaker 1: we'll see. Those are what we'd call rough out boots,
Speaker 1: you know that, Miss Nukem sir Okay, So there's two
Speaker 1: sides to leather. There's the smooth finish side and there's
Speaker 1: the rough out, so those would be rough out. Nice, nice, Isaac.
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about branch. What's happening. You don't know
Speaker 1: where your Crocs were. I was trying to figure out
Speaker 1: why you own them. Somebody gave them to me. Those
Speaker 1: are very popular, they say, hey, dude, hey, dude, dudes.
Speaker 1: I believe they are now owned by Crocs, so technically
Speaker 1: on brand for Brent Reeves. I don't know. They just
Speaker 1: they have a funny look with your your overall is
Speaker 1: They're not funny look funny funny to carry about other
Speaker 1: people a little more diplomatic. Okay, all right, I am
Speaker 1: wearing muddy rubber boots. Welcome to the bar, Gary surrender.
Speaker 1: This is uh, this is a fantastic day. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of just looking around at the footwear. Yeah, Brent
Speaker 1: definitely wins the kind of preppy guy in the overall award. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with those, we gotta skip over our guests. But he's
Speaker 1: got a nice solid pair of Brogrand type brown boots.
Speaker 1: Misty's wearing her extra tough rubber boots, which is great.
Speaker 1: Isaac with his rough outs and Gary Nucomb with his
Speaker 1: Sportivas trail running shoes. Great to see everybody. We have
Speaker 1: a fantastic podcast aligned. I would like to introduce my father,
Speaker 1: Gary Newcome to my right and how you been great? Great? Great? Great,
Speaker 1: maybe even better than great. I hope you enjoyed this
Speaker 1: whole Call your podcasts and have some insight for us. Well, uh,
Speaker 1: I didn't. It was just a lot. To your right,
Speaker 1: Isaac Neil, assistant to the regional producer with the Burgers podcast.
Speaker 1: Glad you got to see me today. Good to see you, man,
Speaker 1: Isaac's Isaac tells me today that he's got an appointment
Speaker 1: for a new tattoo. You want to share with us
Speaker 1: what that tattoo is? Mrs gonna maybe give me a
Speaker 1: little bit of credit for it. Yeah, by all means,
Speaker 1: Mry's gonna love this too, because I had this and
Speaker 1: that there is some level of planning on this one.
Speaker 1: I had it. I had the idea yesterday morning during
Speaker 1: church and the tattoo artist, but I thought, I don't
Speaker 1: know what about church inspired it, but I just popped
Speaker 1: into my head. You know, I want to get a
Speaker 1: possum in raccoon, So I think I'm going to get
Speaker 1: a big possum and a raccoon on the backs of
Speaker 1: my list. Why but these are like the creatures that
Speaker 1: that are the worst. That's what raccoon they eat my
Speaker 1: chickens about it. This is a great example of how
Speaker 1: perspective informs someone like now, a raccoon to me is
Speaker 1: one of the greatest beasts in North America. Chickens. But
Speaker 1: that is why I like chickens, is because raccoons eat them.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. I don't know if it's appropriate. Well,
Speaker 1: Clay's got a good possum story if he if he
Speaker 1: feels up to sharing it. Part two. I just because
Speaker 1: Isaac said, Missy's gonna love this. I want to make
Speaker 1: it clear I don't have a problem with Isaac getting tattoos.
Speaker 1: The thing that is really Misty's a principal, so she
Speaker 1: feels like she could well let talk. We stop saying that.
Speaker 1: But I think what makes me nervous is that Isaac
Speaker 1: gets tattoos sometimes without a lot of premeditation. And from
Speaker 1: my perspective, these are your fraid he's gonna run out
Speaker 1: of space. No, I'm concerned about These are lifelong commitments
Speaker 1: to your skin. And it's just like how can you
Speaker 1: make a decision like that that's so consequential. I think
Speaker 1: he is in Yeah, I think he woul come back
Speaker 1: to the possum story and I want to hear a
Speaker 1: little bit more about why the possum. But to your
Speaker 1: We're gonna skip over our guests as we do. Brent Reeves,
Speaker 1: great to see you, Hello, And then to your left
Speaker 1: is my friend Jonathan Wilkins. Jonathan, great to have you
Speaker 1: on the Burger Surrender. Thank you much. Tattoos. I've always
Speaker 1: loved some of Jonathan's tattoos. You gotta this, Yeah, let
Speaker 1: me see. Let me see. He's got a beautiful rooster tail.
Speaker 1: The fish is pretty. And then a picture of your mom.
Speaker 1: How cool is that? This dog with the mustache is pretty.
Speaker 1: Sport got a dog with a big mustache. Let me
Speaker 1: see the dog with a mustache, the picture of his mom.
Speaker 1: It looks like, Yeah, I saw that was when that
Speaker 1: he had that. That was like when the first ones
Speaker 1: I ever saw him. That's like twenty years old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: capture your mom and like, like, I mean, I assume
Speaker 1: she's aged in the last twenty years. Yeah, she was.
Speaker 1: She was not crazy about it at first, not because
Speaker 1: she was upset about the tattoo, but because she had
Speaker 1: last is on and she had gotten Lasik. But you know, now,
Speaker 1: this is what she looked like twenty years ago, so
Speaker 1: she's all about it. Just what do you think. I
Speaker 1: know that Lasik has developed a lot in the last
Speaker 1: few years. Do you think there's a potential for Lasik
Speaker 1: on tattoos? Do you think the tattoo can get late? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's a ridiculous question. YEA, Well, I was
Speaker 1: just curious how much forethought Jonathan put into his tattoos,
Speaker 1: as as opposed to her friend Isaac, who sometimes just
Speaker 1: are you still in the tattoo market, Jonathan? Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got a few that I I plan on getting
Speaker 1: once my buddy opens up his new shop. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I've I've thought about all of them for a
Speaker 1: long time, and then I went I went seven years
Speaker 1: without getting one. I was shooting. I haven't gotten a
Speaker 1: tattoo and probably three years. Yeah, I'm cool with having
Speaker 1: weird tattoos. I just you just want to think about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know, I had some bad ideas when I
Speaker 1: was younger that I'm glad I didn't. I didn't go
Speaker 1: with Yeah, I try. I try to takes like a
Speaker 1: real win when like ten years later you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: glad I didn't do that. I mean, it feels like
Speaker 1: you can look back on your past self and be
Speaker 1: kind of like proud of how wise you were even
Speaker 1: in the midst of a bad decision. Maybe there's there's
Speaker 1: some conversation that we had about the tattoos you didn't get,
Speaker 1: and now how that's like a credit to pretty much
Speaker 1: the story of my life. It's just a constant tattoos
Speaker 1: didn't get. Do you have the tattoos? Be honest, I
Speaker 1: have one? Do you really sinking ship sunk? I guess
Speaker 1: we just got Yeah, and it was an undercover tattoo.
Speaker 1: Let me see it's Batman in the middle. Can you say,
Speaker 1: did you really get that while you were undercoverage? And
Speaker 1: it's Batman the symbol? Rent? So wow, Brent, Tattoos as
Speaker 1: good a friends as we are brand I'm I've never
Speaker 1: seen your arm up that, huh. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: like showing the white parts of me anyway. You know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: when ride along Tattoosy Gary, you want to go with
Speaker 1: me on Friday? No, yeah, Matt, you could get a
Speaker 1: possum in a coon. Yeah, I'll get and you get
Speaker 1: the he's a black pantherom man. You know, when I
Speaker 1: was when I was young, we used to joke around about,
Speaker 1: you know, getting one tattoo, like in a place where
Speaker 1: no one else would ever see it in a few
Speaker 1: of my buddies did. But back then took tattoos. You know,
Speaker 1: people just didn't get them, like the real rebels got tattoos.
Speaker 1: I didn't know anybody with tattoos, so I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't know when he was in the service, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean, I didn't go around
Speaker 1: looking at people did Houston tattoos? You know, the World
Speaker 1: War Two guys had uh anchors and mom and stuff
Speaker 1: when they came back. But Houston taston heads. My grandfather tattoo.
Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. Anybody was thinking tattoos. I
Speaker 1: wonder about their stability. Example three on three here, it's
Speaker 1: really new comes versus tattoos. Yeah, okay, let me well, okay, Isaac,
Speaker 1: why the possum and coon? I just like the idea
Speaker 1: of the miso predators getting some love. So you're okay
Speaker 1: with a tattoo that has that little meaning to it.
Speaker 1: What do you mean why do they have to have meaning?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I'm talking about. That's great, It's okay.
Speaker 1: I like a raccoon. I like, I like grammar could
Speaker 1: put some meaning on it this period in your life
Speaker 1: while you were you know. Yeah, for me, the tattoo
Speaker 1: will always mean that. At this point in my life,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about getting a possum and a raccoon
Speaker 1: tattooed on me to remember that. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I like it feels verreos archy in to me. So
Speaker 1: here's the possum story told. I've told this twice this week,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't told it originally to be funny. It
Speaker 1: was literally told as a means to explain the people
Speaker 1: in my house and the man that was staying in
Speaker 1: our barn, why something happened that potentially they saw, and
Speaker 1: just to be just totally disclosing. It's not like we
Speaker 1: often have been just staying in our barn, Like, that's
Speaker 1: not a yeah, we didn't find him out. So the
Speaker 1: other night I hear I hear dogs barking, and I
Speaker 1: don't tolerate barking dogs, and so they wake me up,
Speaker 1: and I think they're gonna stop. Shortly, they don't stop.
Speaker 1: They continue bark, bark, barking. It's Jed and Tim, Tim
Speaker 1: the squirrel dog, Jed the coon dog. They bark so
Speaker 1: much that finally I get up and I'm angry. And
Speaker 1: usually I just lift the window in the bedroom and oh,
Speaker 1: you ought to hear me my dog scolden voice. It's
Speaker 1: scare a child. Often the dogs don't wake me up,
Speaker 1: but always the dog's colding does. Yeah. And so I
Speaker 1: wasn't I was so fired up. I wasn't even gonna
Speaker 1: just open the window. I was gonna go downstairs and
Speaker 1: go on the front porch and scold the dogs, you know,
Speaker 1: just like h and uh. But about halfway down the stairs,
Speaker 1: I realized they're not just joy barking. They're treeing something like.
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're looking at something. Wait, can we pause
Speaker 1: this real quick? I got a question? Can we do
Speaker 1: a how to video on how to scold the dog
Speaker 1: in the middle of the way to do it? That works?
Speaker 1: And a dog and an animal can read intent. So
Speaker 1: I've got another story about that too. Um. The so
Speaker 1: I walk outside and I think those dogs are treat
Speaker 1: and so I go from anger to a little bit
Speaker 1: of excitement. I wonder what's in the tree. So I
Speaker 1: walk out, and sure enough I see Jet and Tim
Speaker 1: just treeing on one of our apple trees. And I
Speaker 1: know that they're looking at something, and I'm like, what's
Speaker 1: in the tree. And I happened to be in my
Speaker 1: underwear and barefoot, and then we happen to have a guest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so there's my buddy is staying over in the barn.
Speaker 1: So the window of the barn looks right over the
Speaker 1: apple orchard. Well, I've got my coon light on, and
Speaker 1: I walk out in the grass barefoot and my underwear
Speaker 1: and go and start circling this apple tree looking for
Speaker 1: what's in the tree. Just want a pause, so that
Speaker 1: everyone's got this coon hat, coon light. Yes, And so
Speaker 1: I look up in the tree and there's a possum
Speaker 1: about twelve foot up in the tree and the dogs
Speaker 1: are just looking at it, just tree in this possum. Well,
Speaker 1: I decide that the only way I'm gonna get rid
Speaker 1: of this possum. And you know, we possums were bad
Speaker 1: news on this farm, so I was gonna shake this
Speaker 1: possum ount. I'll just be honest with you, that's what
Speaker 1: I was gonna do. I shook the apple tree and
Speaker 1: nothing fell but apples. And so I think, man, if
Speaker 1: I can just crawl up this tree a little ways,
Speaker 1: I can grab that limb and I'll just I'll just
Speaker 1: shake that sucker down. And so there's a fork in
Speaker 1: the tree and I reach up and grabbed the tree
Speaker 1: and I go to climb in this apple tree. Now
Speaker 1: remember I'm in my underwear, and I have my Sunspot
Speaker 1: coon light, which are going to be for sale on
Speaker 1: the meat eatrew dot com soon. For real. You can
Speaker 1: get a coon light just like me and have best
Speaker 1: light in the world. I've got it on, and I
Speaker 1: go to climbing this apple tree barefoot. And I get
Speaker 1: like a way up in the top of this apple tree,
Speaker 1: and the possum just disappears into the stars, like I
Speaker 1: don't know where he goes. This isn't a big apple
Speaker 1: tree there. I once heard someone tell his story about
Speaker 1: how that they that like a slick tree, like when
Speaker 1: a dog trees and there's nothing in the tree that
Speaker 1: like the animal escaped into the stars and their dog
Speaker 1: was still their tree, and that's what happened. I get
Speaker 1: up to the top of the apple tree. I cannot
Speaker 1: find the possum. I don't know what happened to him. Well,
Speaker 1: so I decided that I've got to get down from
Speaker 1: the tree. And I don't have my contacts in and
Speaker 1: I'm barefoot. I don't know if you ever climbed apple
Speaker 1: tree barefoot, But my foot is crammed down and the
Speaker 1: crotch of this tree so deep that I can't get
Speaker 1: it out. And so I'm like hanging and I feel
Speaker 1: like I've got to like jump backwards just to land,
Speaker 1: and my foot is stuck in the crotch of this tree.
Speaker 1: And I think I'm gonna come out of back out
Speaker 1: of this tree backwards, and my foot is gonna stay
Speaker 1: in this tree and I'm gonna break my ankle in
Speaker 1: this apple tree. So basically I just have this big
Speaker 1: kerfuffle coming out of the tree, and uh. And I
Speaker 1: finally I feel like I'm like eight foot off the ground,
Speaker 1: and I finally just go I got I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: have to go up and then back and just like
Speaker 1: jump out. And when I go up and back and
Speaker 1: jump out, I was like six inches off the ground
Speaker 1: and then I kind of shined up towards where the
Speaker 1: window was where my but he was staying to see
Speaker 1: if he was watching me, and he wasn't. And then
Speaker 1: I just walked back in the house and the dogs
Speaker 1: were happy with that. They never saw the possum, didn't
Speaker 1: come down, but the dogs were just like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: good enough. So you're telling me about this magic animal
Speaker 1: that can right off into the stars, and You're like,
Speaker 1: why would you get a tattoo of that creature? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, why wouldn't you get creatures? Yeah, awesome, Brent.
Speaker 1: I've got another story for you that I haven't told you.
Speaker 1: I had to leave my dogs out overnight this week. Well,
Speaker 1: I went on a coon hunt. Wasn't planning to go,
Speaker 1: didn't have everything charged up really great because I hadn't
Speaker 1: been in a while, and I plugged it in for
Speaker 1: the last hour before before dark, and I went out
Speaker 1: and I took fern jed and Hoot the pup hoot
Speaker 1: and um. We went and treat and a treat in
Speaker 1: a spot where I don't think they had the coon.
Speaker 1: I couldn't find the coon, but it was thick and
Speaker 1: bining and and so we made a big loop and
Speaker 1: came around on the other side of the property and
Speaker 1: the dogs, Ferns collar went dead. Jed didn't have a
Speaker 1: collar because I only have two collars right now, and
Speaker 1: who stayed with me? So Fern and Jed go off
Speaker 1: and Ferns collar dies, and I'm up at the foot
Speaker 1: of this mountain and I hear like, I can't hear
Speaker 1: the dogs. And finally I'd say that for like forty
Speaker 1: five minutes or an hour, I can't hear the dogs.
Speaker 1: And I walked back to the truck like half a
Speaker 1: mile and I can hear firm tread way back in there,
Speaker 1: but I don't have the collar is dead and U.
Speaker 1: And then when I walked towards her, when I got
Speaker 1: to the foot of the mountain, I couldn't hear her.
Speaker 1: And I can't course the dog because of a bad ear.
Speaker 1: So three different times I tried to walk to her
Speaker 1: and never could. Like I would just start walking to
Speaker 1: her and I would lose her, and then I'd come
Speaker 1: back like the way the truck set, you know, I
Speaker 1: could hear. And finally at two am, I just left
Speaker 1: and I left her tread. I could hear her treating
Speaker 1: I mean, like my you know, three quarters of a
Speaker 1: mile away. I could not find her. Came back at
Speaker 1: daylight and she wasn't there. And long story short, about
Speaker 1: ten o'clock they showed up at the farmer's house I
Speaker 1: was hunting on. So that's my story. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you were using the Leon Boyd technique, you would have
Speaker 1: never lost him. Stayed with them. Just take off sprint.
Speaker 1: Ye look like a fallen man. You just gotta make
Speaker 1: it a habit as soon as you get home. I
Speaker 1: don't care if it's nine o'clock at night or nine
Speaker 1: in the morning. As soon as you get the house,
Speaker 1: you got to put that stuff on the charge because
Speaker 1: I've been right there, will you. I know it. And
Speaker 1: the whole deal as you go to that dog to
Speaker 1: get out there because you she went and did what
Speaker 1: you wanted to do. Yeah, and you gotta go to her.
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna talk about whole caller, but before
Speaker 1: we do, Brent. Brent pulled something out of his pocket
Speaker 1: today that shocked me. Brent, What do you have in
Speaker 1: your pocket? What do you carry in your pocket? And
Speaker 1: tell the story behind my whole all everything, or just
Speaker 1: this one maybe two? Well, I took two pocket knives
Speaker 1: and chapstick and a buckeye and this buck I've had
Speaker 1: since the first meeting you and I had, we went
Speaker 1: on top of the mountain on a bear hunt. We
Speaker 1: were we were side seating at that time, and there
Speaker 1: was a bunch of buck eyes up there, and I
Speaker 1: asked if you knew about guys being good luck for hunters,
Speaker 1: and you said no, you hadn't heard that story. Now
Speaker 1: that's not true, Gary, I blame you for that. Now
Speaker 1: that is an outright live I rejected, because we carried
Speaker 1: buck eyes our whole You're the one the top of
Speaker 1: that was a kid. That part of the story is
Speaker 1: not true. That that part may not have been true anyway,
Speaker 1: I said, the only way these can be good luck
Speaker 1: is if you one gives them to another that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know. And you said, well here, so I handed
Speaker 1: you one, and you handed me one. And this is
Speaker 1: the one that you gave me. And I've carried it
Speaker 1: in my pocket every day where everywhere when I get it,
Speaker 1: if I leave the house with my breeches on, unlike
Speaker 1: you know the possible, I've got this bucket in my
Speaker 1: pocket uniform back when I wore a uniform from going
Speaker 1: to church whatever, I've always got that. So you were
Speaker 1: that undercover was before that one correct. But I had
Speaker 1: one day because my dad had given it to me,
Speaker 1: and I had we exchange my whole life back and forth,
Speaker 1: and then they would just absolutely turned to the dust. Impressive.
Speaker 1: And then you have a a quarter that your wife
Speaker 1: gave you. It's a dollar, Okay, it's one of those.
Speaker 1: Uh was that second? You will a dollar? And she said,
Speaker 1: you know, it would help me find my way back
Speaker 1: home always be if I'm in the woods, it would
Speaker 1: help me get home. So I care that my pocket too, Jonathan.
Speaker 1: Would you have the wherewithal to keep up with something
Speaker 1: for like ten years a buckeye? I wouldn't. I probably not.
Speaker 1: So if I had given you a buckeye ten years ago,
Speaker 1: you'd probably lost it through. Yeah, I'm not as romantic
Speaker 1: as nude. I've got a pretty good buckeye story. So
Speaker 1: we Clay wanted to plant all native plants out here
Speaker 1: when we first moved out here, so we planned some buckeyes,
Speaker 1: and the girls were really fascinated. If you've ever seen
Speaker 1: how a buckeye girls, it's pretty interesting. Right now, They're
Speaker 1: all spiky and then they fall down and we would
Speaker 1: just our girls. Even River came home last fall and
Speaker 1: she just like instinctively just started collecting them all and
Speaker 1: put them in a vase in our our living room.
Speaker 1: They just always would carry them around. River was a
Speaker 1: real funny girl. We would go places and Willow would
Speaker 1: always be focused on getting getting the job done, getting
Speaker 1: from point A to point B. River. You would turn
Speaker 1: around and she would be about a mile behind us,
Speaker 1: just picking things up, seeing all sorts of things that
Speaker 1: we missed along the way, and putting them in her pockets.
Speaker 1: So every time I did her laundry, I had an
Speaker 1: empty out, you know, two pounds worth of interesting things. Well,
Speaker 1: she was real fascinated with those buck eyes and she
Speaker 1: would keep them in her pockets. And you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know why people do this, but I get, uh,
Speaker 1: real testy around people who narrate the potential doom that
Speaker 1: could come that's really unlikely, but could happen. And someone said,
Speaker 1: as we were putting River in the car, hey, don't
Speaker 1: let her swallow that it's poisons. And this is a
Speaker 1: bucket on the size of like half the size of
Speaker 1: a golf ball. May not it's not really a swallow,
Speaker 1: it's not. Yeah, But I was a young mom, and
Speaker 1: I was like, why would you even put that thought
Speaker 1: in my head, and the River was real little, and
Speaker 1: we we put her in the car and we drove
Speaker 1: off and we were going to meet. Clay was actually
Speaker 1: behind me. We had two cars and we were meeting
Speaker 1: meeting somewhere, and I had River in the car. I
Speaker 1: had my mom in the car. I had Willow in
Speaker 1: the car. We're driving and Rivers just playing. Every time
Speaker 1: I look back there, she's just playing with this buck eye.
Speaker 1: And once I look back there and she doesn't have
Speaker 1: the buckeye, and I said, hey, where's your buckeye? And
Speaker 1: she looked and she she got this likely yeah. And
Speaker 1: River talked real funny. She had some things going on
Speaker 1: with their adenoids, so she had a real deep voice,
Speaker 1: and she just got really like scared looking, and she
Speaker 1: looked at me and she said, I's wallowed it. And
Speaker 1: I was like, no, it is hollowing, and she said,
Speaker 1: I swallowed it. Mama did. And all of a sudden
Speaker 1: she started like pay nicking in the car. And of
Speaker 1: course my mom and I are looking at each other,
Speaker 1: and I called Clay. He was behind us. They have
Speaker 1: just wallowed a buck eye. Are they really poisoned us?
Speaker 1: I mean, should I go straight to the e R
Speaker 1: or do we have some time here? I didn't know
Speaker 1: like all that. So we pull over and Clay walks
Speaker 1: over there and we sit what river up and everybody's
Speaker 1: looking in her mouth and looking and we set her up.
Speaker 1: We set her up and boom in her car seat
Speaker 1: is a big old buckeye and she had just lost
Speaker 1: track of it and remembered that we have been so
Speaker 1: she wasn't lying. She just thought like she was like,
Speaker 1: I've mapped it out, have swallowed it, and she looked
Speaker 1: at oh there, it is the same thing. If you
Speaker 1: swallowed it too fast, you forget it. No, it'll be
Speaker 1: in your chair when you stand. Uh. Hey, we have
Speaker 1: just a few more housekeeping things to do here. On
Speaker 1: the last Bargrease Render, I I put my mule up
Speaker 1: for sale. And when I did this, I thought this
Speaker 1: was a great idea to sell stuff on the Beargrease
Speaker 1: Render podcast. And so we're actually starting an official Beargrease
Speaker 1: bargain barn section of the Bargrease Surrender. And if and
Speaker 1: this is for real, if you have something for sale now,
Speaker 1: we're not guaranteeing that everybody that writes in is gonna
Speaker 1: is gonna get their item put up for sale. We
Speaker 1: need premium items. Okay, well that'll be the first one. UM.
Speaker 1: But so basically we're every every week we're gonna have
Speaker 1: the Beargrease bargain barn where we're gonna we're gonna sell
Speaker 1: about three items and you can email your item to
Speaker 1: bear Grease at the eater dot com. And I will
Speaker 1: not be monitoring this email address, but someone will. And
Speaker 1: it's got to be for real because we're gonna put
Speaker 1: your your you have to have a social media handle
Speaker 1: because that we don't want to put a phone number
Speaker 1: or an email. We're not gonna be playing matchmaker. That's right.
Speaker 1: We're just we're putting it out there. This is what's
Speaker 1: for sale. We're not involved in the sale. We're not
Speaker 1: involved with money. Would take zero liability for uh, for
Speaker 1: anything that could possibly go wrong with this um and
Speaker 1: but we're looking for for real stuff that needs to
Speaker 1: be sold that you think would be a big fuit. Listeners,
Speaker 1: what do you think you think it's gonna work? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess it could work. Like what if
Speaker 1: you had a duck boat that you needed sold and
Speaker 1: you could get it in front of a bunch of
Speaker 1: bargeras podcast listeners or some eagle feat pot belly stone.
Speaker 1: One of those would be illegal. I mean you've got ah,
Speaker 1: you've got a great listenership, so I'm sure that you could.
Speaker 1: You can make a few shekels. Well, I mean it's
Speaker 1: not we're not making money. It's not. It's not about
Speaker 1: saying taking a Oh you think we're gonna move into
Speaker 1: like taking a cut. Well, I mean, how hard is
Speaker 1: it to start an Instagram account? You know someone named
Speaker 1: Blay Buchum that was selling raccoon vacuums. There you go,
Speaker 1: there you go. Okay, okay, well this is you're you're saying,
Speaker 1: this is a way of fencing his ill gotten gain.
Speaker 1: Well maybe not ill gotten. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's poaching coons, but okay, I think there could be
Speaker 1: an illst of trade. And li we finally get those
Speaker 1: all bladders, we get stuck about this, No, no I have.
Speaker 1: So this is for real. It's gonna be called the
Speaker 1: Burgery's Bargain Barn, and there will be a short segment
Speaker 1: on the burgery Strender And so you can email what
Speaker 1: you have for sale to bear grease at the meat
Speaker 1: eat dot com. And we're not we can't read everybody
Speaker 1: stuff stuff, but stuff that we feel is appropriate, and
Speaker 1: you know, tell us what it is, give us, give
Speaker 1: us the whole sales pitch, and be ready for some
Speaker 1: people to come knocking on your door. One of the
Speaker 1: things we'd like to see is in the subject line
Speaker 1: and the email bear grease, bargain barn b G b
Speaker 1: B something like that, and then really sell us on it. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it needs it needs to be a good ad. We
Speaker 1: need some effort. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna facilitate a sale.
Speaker 1: Make it entertaining. Yeah, like, let me just put it
Speaker 1: out here. Broken clothes dryer, we're putting that up probably not.
Speaker 1: No pontoon boat turned into a tiki bar. Interesting, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good example. Would fired cook stove, old gas
Speaker 1: tiller for the garden? Yeah? How much we send that for?
Speaker 1: I don't know. We're getting going out. So yeah, we
Speaker 1: just we just kind of want to facilitate some stuff
Speaker 1: because because I put my mule up for sale the
Speaker 1: other day and I had a few, a few bites,
Speaker 1: a few nimbles, um, but I'm actually slandered the mule
Speaker 1: a lot. I didn't slander the mule. That's why I
Speaker 1: can never be a mule trader because I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 1: too honest, ms nukem. It's it's hard to sell a
Speaker 1: mule if you tell the truth every time. It's real hard.
Speaker 1: And so that's the reason I've decided to keep Banjo.
Speaker 1: And um, I've got a guy, my friend Michael Lanier, uh,
Speaker 1: my Scurel hunting mentor and uh he was on Meat
Speaker 1: Eater Season ten. I think with Steve Rinella and me
Speaker 1: and we Scurore hunted and uh, Michael has found me
Speaker 1: uh a guy here in Arkansas that well keep him
Speaker 1: for thirty days and basically ride him. So that's a
Speaker 1: thing you do if you have a mule, Jonathan, you
Speaker 1: could pay someone. It's not it's that he's not training
Speaker 1: the mule because the mule has been trained to some degree.
Speaker 1: It's not like sending your kid boarding, right and so
Speaker 1: but what most guys that listen, it's actually a pretty
Speaker 1: good business model. And if things don't work out for
Speaker 1: me and outdoor media, I would consider doing this. Um
Speaker 1: is uh you charge like, I'll just tell you that
Speaker 1: this guy is going to charge six fifty dollars to
Speaker 1: ride that mule for thirty days and do the math.
Speaker 1: If you had even let's say seven or eight mules
Speaker 1: for a month and your own and you were getting
Speaker 1: paid six and forty bucks, you know, that's several thousand
Speaker 1: dollars of income per month and all you would have
Speaker 1: to do, and you don't write it every day. You
Speaker 1: write it like five days a week, so they'll guarantee
Speaker 1: you, you you know, they're gonna ride the mule like four
Speaker 1: times or something for like thirty minutes segments, not like
Speaker 1: they're gonna write it all eight They're just gonna saddle
Speaker 1: the animal, work the animal ride it unsaddled. So if
Speaker 1: you woke up every day and you had the ride
Speaker 1: eight mules, I mean an hour a mule would be
Speaker 1: eight hours is a good, honest mule man's work day
Speaker 1: of work. You know. So I have backup plans for
Speaker 1: my career. I think that you could really kick start
Speaker 1: your backup career by just going and writing people's mules
Speaker 1: and then invoicing them on the back end. Don't wait
Speaker 1: for them to send you a mule. Just find a
Speaker 1: pasture with a mule in itop on it, send him
Speaker 1: abil at the end of the month. That's a good idea, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the mule story, that's the bear grease bargain barn story. Uh,
Speaker 1: we've covered We've We've covered a lot. Jonathan Black Duck
Speaker 1: Revival Jonathan is Black Duck Revival on on Instagram and
Speaker 1: your business. Tell me about your Jonathan is Black Dunck Revival.
Speaker 1: Is that not a good way to kind of it's
Speaker 1: kind of sound like you said, Jonathan's Black Duck Revival.
Speaker 1: But that's that's funny. I don't know if I started
Speaker 1: did you just kind of you were slow and getting
Speaker 1: it out, and so I was like, what's saying remaining honest, Well,
Speaker 1: tell me about tell me about your waterfowl outfit. Huh
Speaker 1: oh it's ah and the classes and what you do. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I told the story. It feels so many times lately.
Speaker 1: So some years ago I bought an old church in
Speaker 1: a town called Brinkley, Arkansas, over and the the opposite
Speaker 1: side of the state and the Delta and referbed it,
Speaker 1: turned it into a lodge and then I started doing these.
Speaker 1: Uh it's kind of curated hunt experiences where folks come out,
Speaker 1: we go hunting for a couple of days. Do small
Speaker 1: groups like cat the hunts at five people um. And
Speaker 1: then we spent a couple of days hunting and just
Speaker 1: going into depth about like whole bird processing. We look
Speaker 1: at like wax plucking, dry plucking, mechanically plucking birds. We
Speaker 1: do cooking classes and demos. You know, I'm real big
Speaker 1: on like whole bird usage. So that's you know, cooking
Speaker 1: the innards and using the feet and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Uh. And you know it's got a bunch
Speaker 1: of like Southern heritage stuff wrapped into it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got I've got a handful of spots left for
Speaker 1: this season on that. So it's during duck season and
Speaker 1: goose season. You have people come in and you host
Speaker 1: them at your lodge. You feed them, and you take
Speaker 1: them duck hunting and goose hunt, and then and then
Speaker 1: you teach them how to handle the ducks, handle the geese,
Speaker 1: cook them. And I mean it's like a it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a class, an immersive experience call it. Uh yeah.
Speaker 1: Would you would you be upset with me if I
Speaker 1: basically copied your model for coon and squirrel hunting? Go
Speaker 1: for it, man squirreled what we call it, uh gray
Speaker 1: squirrel revival. I don't know you'd have to. You'd have to,
Speaker 1: you know, secure large blocks of private land because you
Speaker 1: can't guide for that stuff on public land in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: What about you could can't. You can't guide for squirrel
Speaker 1: hunting in Arkansas on public land. It's a fish only
Speaker 1: on public land really, So there's no public land guiding
Speaker 1: in Arkansas as far as I understand it. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: just never thought because no one guides for squirrel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, for a long time, you could do it. Uh,
Speaker 1: you do it for ducks, but they shout. I thought
Speaker 1: I thought they shut it down just for ducks because
Speaker 1: of the pressure that waterfowl areas have from outfitters and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I I'm not saying I know that.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I did not know, because I actually
Speaker 1: had if the if if the outdoor media thing didn't
Speaker 1: work and then the mule training thing didn't work, that
Speaker 1: was option three? What about what about flashy mule revival
Speaker 1: and then you train mule skinners. Man, I'm probably not
Speaker 1: that good. You don't have to be that good. You
Speaker 1: just have to get good. God, get him in, get
Speaker 1: him out. Part of Jonathan's I think part of the
Speaker 1: draw that's missing with a gray squirrel. It's just how
Speaker 1: how beautiful it is. When the videos you've gone and
Speaker 1: bear it's really a beautiful, neat place. And when you
Speaker 1: see the birds flying above you. I mean that was
Speaker 1: that was kind of amazing, just a really amazing, amazing
Speaker 1: experience too. It was I have to comments. One is Gary,
Speaker 1: just ra give me the six D fifty bucks and
Speaker 1: just keep your mule out here because it ain't gonna work, okay.
Speaker 1: Number two, Oh you don't you don't think it's that's
Speaker 1: a con job. Yeah, your buddies turned on you all
Speaker 1: right now. And on Jonathan, didn't you do a podcast
Speaker 1: on him under Bear Hunting Magazine. I'm gonna tell you, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: You're my hero. Oh. I was so impressed. If you
Speaker 1: have not heard that podcast, go back and find it.
Speaker 1: That was my favorite podcast ever. And I told Clay,
Speaker 1: I said, that guy right there is this thinking real
Speaker 1: deal and I love him. And I'm telling you, I
Speaker 1: was so impressed. We were at a family reunion, you remember,
Speaker 1: and I go, man, you guys gotta find this podcast
Speaker 1: and and you know, you explained some stuff that I've
Speaker 1: never heard before that made the world so much clearer
Speaker 1: for me and I just want to say that you
Speaker 1: going home brother. Thanks, uh, sorry to disappoint you can
Speaker 1: find out I'm a tattooed Carny. That's where you looked
Speaker 1: around at the world today. And if what I said
Speaker 1: is true, it's we're in big trouble because everybody. Yeah no, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jonathan and I did a podcast a couple of years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: on the front Porch. Yeah, yeah, no, we just we
Speaker 1: basically just talked about race issues. I don't know how
Speaker 1: we describe it. I don't remember what we talked about.
Speaker 1: The books, Giltner's book, Hunting and Fishing in the New South,
Speaker 1: that was what it was, but it kind of it it.
Speaker 1: We talked about how, um, well the book. You turned
Speaker 1: me onto it and I read it and it was
Speaker 1: a great book. And we actually interviewed Scott Guiltner, who
Speaker 1: is most likely going to be on some of the
Speaker 1: later episodes. Isaac reviewed him. Um, but yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a great podcast. We've got a lot of good feedback
Speaker 1: from it. Isn't that we found out about Collier Well
Speaker 1: in the book, Yeah, yeah, Scott's book, that's right. In
Speaker 1: Scott's book, he he had just like a little small
Speaker 1: section about Holt Collier was in Scott's book, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I also listened to that episode driving to interview Scott,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I should do a little bit
Speaker 1: of research, right because it was kind of a last
Speaker 1: minute thing. You're like, hey, can you drive up and
Speaker 1: interview him tomorrow? Yeah. So I'm on the way there
Speaker 1: four and a half hour, so it's like google whatever,
Speaker 1: Scott Giltner, interview whatever, and then it just comes up
Speaker 1: with you two. And I was like, for serendipity number
Speaker 1: one hit. I listen to that. It was awesome. M
Speaker 1: hm cool. Well, um, so we've if we thoroughly introduced
Speaker 1: Jonathan enough talked about his what he does. You're you're
Speaker 1: also a writer and an ambassador for some brands and
Speaker 1: the hunting Yeah yeah, you posess named you possess a
Speaker 1: fan that I'm envious of. Yeah, I got the van.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to spend as much time as possible in
Speaker 1: that thing. Nice. I gotta stop making babies if I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do that. Yeah yeah, yeah, married family man. I
Speaker 1: got two little girls and I got a boy coming
Speaker 1: in the middle of a duck season right on timing.
Speaker 1: Oh that's the way it goes circle. Well, great. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about let's talk about whole car er um this.
Speaker 1: So this podcast has been the works for a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I talked to you about this a year
Speaker 1: and a half ago, did not, didn't We talked sometime ago? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And and it's just it's like it's been in the docket,
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of how this stuff rolls out
Speaker 1: is sometimes opportunistic, sometimes strategic. Um. And it just like
Speaker 1: came up in the rolodex, the Bear Grease Rolodex, like
Speaker 1: Holk Collier. It's time. And so I was. I contacted Jonathan,
Speaker 1: I contacted minor Ferris Buchanan. I love his name, like
Speaker 1: I wanted to say it over and over, Um, how
Speaker 1: do you spell the minor? Am I in music? In
Speaker 1: my in r I've got questions about his name. But
Speaker 1: Minor first Buchanan, I like him a lot. Uh and
Speaker 1: then Hank Burdon, So Jonathan, Hank and Minor where the
Speaker 1: where the guests? And uh? Yeah, So like what was
Speaker 1: your what was your thoughts? Yeah? I I it was
Speaker 1: such a good podcast. We were I was actually driving
Speaker 1: with our oldest daughter across across the US, across the
Speaker 1: east coast trying to get her moved, and we were
Speaker 1: listening to it and and I mean it was just
Speaker 1: like every break, I was sad that there was a
Speaker 1: break we kept. Yeah, it was. It was so intriguing.
Speaker 1: And I've heard a lot about it, just as you've.
Speaker 1: But I think what I've heard mostly has been about
Speaker 1: what the next podcast will be, you know, the next two,
Speaker 1: because you never talked about the things that we've Oh. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this was just the first twenty years of his life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is yeah, so I but I thought it was
Speaker 1: so it was so interesting. Just his whole life was
Speaker 1: just fascinating. What was what was most interesting? Well, I
Speaker 1: mean I just think it was fascinating just thinking about
Speaker 1: the time that he lived, like the era that he
Speaker 1: existed on this earth and how how you know, who
Speaker 1: we became inside of that and uh, and I just
Speaker 1: I thought it was super interesting. Oddly, I thought it
Speaker 1: was also super interesting how minor fairs became in the
Speaker 1: pathway to write in this book. That was super random
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Um, but that but it was just
Speaker 1: it was just really fascinating. The whole just his whole
Speaker 1: life story was just so not you'd expect. Yeah, Dad,
Speaker 1: what do you think? I thought it was very good. Uh,
Speaker 1: just a lot of a lot of thoughts. Um, let
Speaker 1: me ask this question. If he was white with basically
Speaker 1: the same story tied in with the Hinz fourteen years
Speaker 1: old went in the Civil War, I mean, would the
Speaker 1: story be any different? I mean it would be. You
Speaker 1: don't know that you would have paid attention to it
Speaker 1: had he been a white boy. Sure. So what's made
Speaker 1: this interesting to most people is that he was a
Speaker 1: black guy. So why was he so special? And? Uh,
Speaker 1: I think he revealed a lot of it. The depth
Speaker 1: of it was just amazing. It was almost as good
Speaker 1: as Jonathan's podcast. You know, it just reveals things where
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um M, it's it's just a subject
Speaker 1: that I think educated a lot of people. You know that,
Speaker 1: um on this on this one, this podcast just tells you,
Speaker 1: uh that there's just great people everywhere, and this guy
Speaker 1: was one of them. And he was exceptional. I think
Speaker 1: because of his d n A in the environment he
Speaker 1: was in just pulled everything together where he was a
Speaker 1: powerful person and and he couldn't help it. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was a magnet wherever he was. When he walked
Speaker 1: in the room, I mean, you go, like, here's this
Speaker 1: little scrimpy guy. But I mean he just captivated everybody,
Speaker 1: and so racism almost was not even in the subject.
Speaker 1: I mean in a way. I mean it was big racism,
Speaker 1: but it was like, Hey, we like this guy because
Speaker 1: who he is. We don't care what color he is.
Speaker 1: We want him to ride into cavalry. We want him
Speaker 1: to guide and bear hunt, we want you know, we
Speaker 1: want all this stuff because he's just thinking winner and
Speaker 1: I want to be a little bit of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what that's what you feel like you see because
Speaker 1: everywhere he goes, he's people are singling him out and
Speaker 1: just just he was and and and that. That's what
Speaker 1: I said inside of this is that, you know, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't And I said this to Jonathan, I said
Speaker 1: it to everybody. I didn't want to turn this into
Speaker 1: a podcast just about race. I wanted to celebrate this
Speaker 1: guy's life. But I think we owe it to Holt
Speaker 1: to look at it because that was the back, that
Speaker 1: was the that was the hedge of mom, that was
Speaker 1: the dominating thing of his life, was that he was
Speaker 1: a black guy in the South doing stuff that at
Speaker 1: the time, you know, just wasn't normal at all. And
Speaker 1: and but he he made it it's like almost like
Speaker 1: he from the story, from the version of the stories
Speaker 1: we have, like he made it kind of look easy.
Speaker 1: And that's what Jonathan did so well, was to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: this stories, you know, pretty easy to tell. But it
Speaker 1: was whole lived a very complicated life and it was
Speaker 1: it was wild time. And you know, I thought Jonathan
Speaker 1: did a good job of bringing in just like, hey,
Speaker 1: this story is not probably as simple as it sounds.
Speaker 1: You know, um, let me ask you this is I
Speaker 1: feel like you said in this podcast that he had
Speaker 1: killed three thousand bears by what age. Well, just in
Speaker 1: his life and his life that is wild, right, I
Speaker 1: mean that's exceptional. I mean I know, it's like a
Speaker 1: whole different time period combined. Yeah, so that's exceptional. And yeah,
Speaker 1: that's because I think I think you might have actually
Speaker 1: heard the whole call your story if even if he
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been in the in the context that he
Speaker 1: was in. But I especially thinking about what is about
Speaker 1: to happen in the next I'm like, foreshead and you
Speaker 1: can tell we've already told everything that's gonna happen. What
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Roosevelt. Yeah, yeah, him hunting with
Speaker 1: with Teddy Roosevelt and then like a global icon and
Speaker 1: just having killed three thousand bears. I mean that's when
Speaker 1: you said that, I thought that can't be, that cannot
Speaker 1: be true. Yeah, but it is true. Yeah. I mean, so,
Speaker 1: so what you'll learn, well maybe maybe we've already talked
Speaker 1: a lot about that, but he he basically had a
Speaker 1: log where he had logged bears, and these market hunters
Speaker 1: kept records, not like we keep records today kind of
Speaker 1: as we hunt. They kept records like financial records. It's
Speaker 1: like taxes, you know. And so he had a he
Speaker 1: had a log I think when he was at some
Speaker 1: latter part of his life but not finished bear hunting,
Speaker 1: where he'd killed twenty one bears, and a house burned
Speaker 1: down and destroyed that log. But basically, uh, they really
Speaker 1: believe that he killed three thousand bears in his I
Speaker 1: mean that wouldn't be It's not unheard of from the
Speaker 1: market hunting the peak of the market hunting era, but
Speaker 1: at the at the at the peak, no, I I can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying it's not There's people that
Speaker 1: have done that, but very few, and I mean Boone
Speaker 1: the thing. I think Johnah was the one who said
Speaker 1: it to me, maybe not on the air, but like
Speaker 1: Boone did some market bear hunting, But Boone didn't bear
Speaker 1: hunt for thirty years market He market hunting for periods
Speaker 1: of his life. And there was a year when he
Speaker 1: killed the hundred and fifty five bears on the on
Speaker 1: the Little Sandy River in Kentucky and that was you know,
Speaker 1: if he had done that for thirty years, he would
Speaker 1: have had his you know, more than that. But like
Speaker 1: you know, he had a long Holt had a long
Speaker 1: and illustrious career as a market bear hunter in a
Speaker 1: good part of the world to be market bear hunting. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: what do you think overall podcast? How did how did
Speaker 1: it come off? Yeah? Man, I thought I told you
Speaker 1: on the phone man, I thought I thought it was
Speaker 1: well done. I was happy to be a part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think that, you know, part of
Speaker 1: what's so compelling about the guy is that it's I
Speaker 1: feel like his story is so extraordinarily multifaceted that putting,
Speaker 1: you know, putting any sort of kind of parameters on him,
Speaker 1: or trying to quantify our understanding of his motivations or
Speaker 1: everything he was doing is we're never going to get
Speaker 1: the full picture of it, right uh. And And like
Speaker 1: I said, we've talked about on on the phone, because
Speaker 1: we've talked about this a couple of times on the
Speaker 1: phone the last few weeks, I think that we would
Speaker 1: know about I think that his story would be worth
Speaker 1: telling if he wasn't black, because I think that he
Speaker 1: did so many extraordinary things, right Uh. I think I mean,
Speaker 1: like we talked about before, like every ten years of
Speaker 1: this guy's life, there's some fantastic story, right Uh. And
Speaker 1: I do think that the relationships he had with the
Speaker 1: people around him are part of what's extraordinary about him. Uh.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna I'm gonna actually disagree a little bit
Speaker 1: with you here, Gary and say that I don't think
Speaker 1: that I don't think that it was I don't think
Speaker 1: it could fully get that because of the time. I
Speaker 1: don't think that, you know, him being black could ever
Speaker 1: be inconsequential to the way he interacted with people. Something
Speaker 1: I really thought about when I was listening back to
Speaker 1: that podcast was if you think about you know, the
Speaker 1: two guys are possibly three, but like the two guys
Speaker 1: that we know he killed, I think that if I
Speaker 1: think that if he had killed Southern men of standing,
Speaker 1: I don't think he would have been acquitted. I think
Speaker 1: that I think it's the people that he took out, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, like especially if you think about, uh, if
Speaker 1: you think about the Freedman's Bureau guy, right, like, I
Speaker 1: mean that was a that was the union guy. He
Speaker 1: was in the community would have liked. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: absolutely detested. I mean even to the point that if
Speaker 1: you if you listen to that podcast, uh, Hankberg Dyne
Speaker 1: used the word carpetbagger, right, which is a pejorative, right,
Speaker 1: It's a pejoraty of were here here in the South
Speaker 1: still sometimes, but that's a holdover from you know, a
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty years ago. Right. So I think that
Speaker 1: undoubtedly he was an extraordinary and exceptional outline human being.
Speaker 1: Uh and and we talked about it too. I think
Speaker 1: that he I'd be It'd be hard for me to
Speaker 1: think that he didn't have close relationships with some of
Speaker 1: these people, uh, you know, some of these kind of
Speaker 1: wartime relationships, like people in a foxhole type thing. But
Speaker 1: I also think that he was really adept And I
Speaker 1: know you've got you've got schooled a little bit on mezzanine.
Speaker 1: Just I'll just make I'll make the U. I'll make
Speaker 1: the admission that I said adapt in that podcast when
Speaker 1: I should have said a depth. But I think he
Speaker 1: was really talking a lot. You're gonna mess something up, absolutely,
Speaker 1: But I think he was really adept at negotiating his life,
Speaker 1: you know, and in finding ways to be useful to
Speaker 1: the people around him that endeared himself to them. Uh.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that if he had I think
Speaker 1: that if he had just got if he had gotten
Speaker 1: in a fight with Hines like old Hines and shot him,
Speaker 1: I think his story would have ended very soon after that,
Speaker 1: you know. But uh so I think so. I think
Speaker 1: that it's uh, like I said, man, it's so many
Speaker 1: different layers to it that it's such a rich story.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing too, that makes a story worth tell, right,
Speaker 1: is it's not just an adventure tale. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a this is a story that's like full of adventure,
Speaker 1: full of heroism, incredibly long, like these interactions I'm almost
Speaker 1: like forced Gump, like running into all these different historical
Speaker 1: figures and stuff. Right, But then when we start to
Speaker 1: really try and investigate the nuance of it, and you know,
Speaker 1: and and put the real human perspective into it. Uh,
Speaker 1: it almost reaches like a point of being hard to believe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, man. Yeah, it's uh well, Hank burd Eye
Speaker 1: said it in the beginning, he said, he said, it's
Speaker 1: a story that you almost think couldn't have happened, but
Speaker 1: it did. And that's why it's such a great story,
Speaker 1: is is he he had so many things that happened,
Speaker 1: but this the you know where he was and who
Speaker 1: he was in this underlying thing was just so intriguing.
Speaker 1: It's kind of wild that we all don't know Holtz name.
Speaker 1: Now they know his name down there in in uh,
Speaker 1: Jefferson County, Mississippi, And we're gonna unveil not that it's
Speaker 1: a secret, it's not a secret at all. But there's
Speaker 1: a federal wildlife refuge named after Holt Collier. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: only one in the country that's named after an African American.
Speaker 1: H Yeah. And so we're gonna talk about that at
Speaker 1: a big festival. There's a festival uh in October, I
Speaker 1: think that towards the end of October that they have
Speaker 1: every year down there. Yeah, and you know that's that's
Speaker 1: a uh that's probably something that happens with lots of people,
Speaker 1: right like the cloistered community around where some activity or
Speaker 1: some person was, they know about it, but you know,
Speaker 1: the broader country or world doesn't find out about it.
Speaker 1: But now we've got the the internets. So yeah, he was.
Speaker 1: He was heading shoulders above everybody almost. I mean, his
Speaker 1: d NA, his makeup, His little ten year old guy
Speaker 1: gets the attention of the owner, you know, hines and
Speaker 1: he goes, wait a minute, this guy, this little kid
Speaker 1: something special. I mean he's he can't help it, man,
Speaker 1: this guy's just thinking genius. I mean he might not
Speaker 1: have the IQ of a genie, but he's he attracts people,
Speaker 1: he can do stuff, He makes things happen, even as
Speaker 1: a little kid. They're going, what look at this little guy?
Speaker 1: So he is he is one in a big number
Speaker 1: of people that can do what he did. And because
Speaker 1: he was black, it makes the story really interesting to me. Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean he is. I mean, you know I've been
Speaker 1: around people like that. You know, you walk in a
Speaker 1: room with a professional athlete and you just wonder. I mean,
Speaker 1: he must come from a different planet. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: a different species. You know that they're big, strong, powerful,
Speaker 1: most of them smart, and you're like, you know, just
Speaker 1: cow down. I can't wait for him to leave the room. Man,
Speaker 1: this guy's and that's that's kind of the way this
Speaker 1: guy was. I mean he he might have been a
Speaker 1: little guy, might have had a quiet voice, but he
Speaker 1: was a powerful man, very powerful and um anyway, I
Speaker 1: love this guy. There was definitely something throughout his entire
Speaker 1: life that was evocative for other people, right. Uh. I
Speaker 1: would say though, too, that what I've been struck by
Speaker 1: is that if I think, if you really look at
Speaker 1: it and you go back to like when he was
Speaker 1: a little kid, and he's kind of starting his market hunting, right,
Speaker 1: because that's really kind of like a form of market hunting, right,
Speaker 1: he was hunting for the plantation. I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that allow out him to really explore the
Speaker 1: extraordinary DNA as you're referring to it, uh, was that
Speaker 1: I think he was really I think he was really
Speaker 1: nuanced and really kind of hip to the fact that
Speaker 1: he made himself useful to the people around, right, and so,
Speaker 1: and that allowed him to avail himself two opportunities that
Speaker 1: other people of his station would not have. So uh,
Speaker 1: you know kind of to me. I guess if there's
Speaker 1: a sad part about his life is that I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know that he ever fully got to realize
Speaker 1: his potential for uh for just himself, right, Like he
Speaker 1: had to be dexterous enough to always make it make
Speaker 1: the society around him like need him or want him.
Speaker 1: But I mean that's you know it like if you
Speaker 1: ever seen Game of Thrones or something, I mean that's like, uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's I mean, that's like a political game. Like
Speaker 1: you know, this guy I think had the had the
Speaker 1: dexterity of a politician coupled with the fact that he
Speaker 1: was his consummate outdoorsman. Right. They had to be incredibly tough, Uh,
Speaker 1: he had to be incredibly nuanced and all these things
Speaker 1: he did and then still be able to to circumvent
Speaker 1: the the norms of the time to where I think
Speaker 1: kind of undoubtedly he had close relationships with people, uh
Speaker 1: that you might not expect him to write. You know,
Speaker 1: it was natural though. He didn't have to go in
Speaker 1: and go, look, I can see this game we're playing,
Speaker 1: and if I get to be valuable, then I'm gonna
Speaker 1: win this game. I think it was not he wanted.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was just like that was part of
Speaker 1: this thing that made him great is that, you know,
Speaker 1: he he just that was not trull and it just
Speaker 1: you can portray it is having the political savvy to
Speaker 1: do all this stuff. But I think I think the
Speaker 1: guy was born with this stuff and that environment he
Speaker 1: was in accelerated it and magnified it, where he was
Speaker 1: just a powerful person by natural gift is the way
Speaker 1: I see it, more than a calculated thing. Now, he
Speaker 1: was smart enough to have calculated it and done a
Speaker 1: lot of great stuff. But I'm not sure you can
Speaker 1: a ten year old can be smart enough to go,
Speaker 1: man if I can kill them a bunch of bear,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean he wanted, he wanted to be helpful.
Speaker 1: He wanted and it just ended up being a great asset.
Speaker 1: That's probably the way. I mean a lot of us
Speaker 1: are and a lot of different scenarios too, you know,
Speaker 1: just like find find how to in the context you're
Speaker 1: in useful valuable. I think part of the endearing nature
Speaker 1: of the story is the loyalty aspect of it. That
Speaker 1: his loyalty to the different people inside of his life,
Speaker 1: even like going he heard that doesn't even remember the
Speaker 1: guy's name, the the union officer, what was his name, Well,
Speaker 1: the guy the guy killed allegedly allegedly he went after
Speaker 1: Captain Well allegedly went after Captain King. I'm not glad
Speaker 1: I think he did it. Is that sugarcane for me?
Speaker 1: Just like that anyway, So I think, like, you've got
Speaker 1: these stories, but then you also have a lot of
Speaker 1: different people being loyal back to him the Texas night,
Speaker 1: sitting out there waiting on him for during the court trial,
Speaker 1: and you see those stories, and so I think that
Speaker 1: the when I was listening to it, the thing that
Speaker 1: that struck me was just this theme of of loyalty, irrational,
Speaker 1: not common for that time, type of of loyalty coming
Speaker 1: in all different everybody gave back to him, like every
Speaker 1: relationship you see that loyalty coming back to him, which
Speaker 1: is unusual. Undoubtedly, Yeah, I think there's an element of
Speaker 1: what you guys are talking about. I don't think that
Speaker 1: there mutually exclusive this idea that like he was born
Speaker 1: with an uncanny gift. But also like when I think
Speaker 1: of a young kid, like uh, like an abuse survivor
Speaker 1: or whatever, do you see how that molds their behavior
Speaker 1: as soon as like, oh, I've connected that X and
Speaker 1: Y equals Z, so if I do this, I can whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't think that everyone thrives in that scenario, So
Speaker 1: I think that there is a natural gift there, but
Speaker 1: I think that there is probably some also learned and
Speaker 1: calculated responses. I think what's really interesting about that is, um,
Speaker 1: going back to an earlier podcast, luck or providence or whatever,
Speaker 1: he has some really huge strokes of luck. Right. I'm
Speaker 1: not here to paint Hines as a as a empirically
Speaker 1: good man or a bad man or whatever. He was
Speaker 1: a slave owner, but he got pretty lucky to get
Speaker 1: a guy who could Um, it wasn't altruism that he
Speaker 1: uh directed towards Holt, but to have an owner that
Speaker 1: might be open minded enough to say, like I, it's
Speaker 1: I I struggle for the semantics here, because there's certainly
Speaker 1: could have been other alternatives for an owner to the
Speaker 1: way they treated their people. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to say like that he was doing something empirically
Speaker 1: good by being less bad to hold than another owner.
Speaker 1: That's the language struggle that I'm having there. But like
Speaker 1: he was fortunate to have that, he was fortunate to
Speaker 1: when he ran away to join him, like to have
Speaker 1: found his master, Like the story of him getting off,
Speaker 1: like stowing away on a boat and then getting off.
Speaker 1: Where were they in Memphis? Is that where they were mustering? Uh?
Speaker 1: I just remember the story of him like and then
Speaker 1: he showed up, And it's like if I showed up
Speaker 1: in a big city, like the odds of finding one
Speaker 1: person in that huge city. Maybe there was more to
Speaker 1: that story that I missed, but there were like these
Speaker 1: moments of serendipity that followed him around. I think it
Speaker 1: gets back at the idea of this like you can't
Speaker 1: remove any one leg of this table, Like he's an
Speaker 1: uncommonly gifted guy, He's has uncommon experiences. He you know,
Speaker 1: the fact that he's black, and that changes that paradigm. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know it you're making, man, You're making some
Speaker 1: really astute points, and I think I think, I think
Speaker 1: what you said was well said, man, is that none
Speaker 1: of this stuff is mutually exclusive. Like I guess I
Speaker 1: feel a certain responsibility to push back against uh kind
Speaker 1: of a disneyfication of his life. But I think everything
Speaker 1: that folks are are picking up about this guy's is there,
Speaker 1: which is why he's so fascinating because he's extraordinary. You're right,
Speaker 1: he lived through extraordinary times. Extraordinary Uh you know, what
Speaker 1: do you call luck or providence or whatever? Uh. I
Speaker 1: think he's super savvy. I think that you know, he
Speaker 1: made the most of kind of extraordinary situations he found
Speaker 1: himself in. Uh. Yeah, it's it really is. The more
Speaker 1: I think about it, the more I look into it,
Speaker 1: the more I work, you know, on research about this guy,
Speaker 1: it's and I don't think this is an overstatement. I
Speaker 1: really feel like it's one of the greatest American stories
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. He is an absolute Shannon example of
Speaker 1: perseverance if there ever was one, and taking it I
Speaker 1: don't even know if taking it you could accuse him
Speaker 1: of taking advantage of anything because of where he lived
Speaker 1: and when he lived, but what he built out of
Speaker 1: that we're talking about him today. How long has that been?
Speaker 1: A hundred sixty years ago? How many people were in
Speaker 1: the Civil War, It was like up to ten thousand.
Speaker 1: I think that black people, African Americans have served on
Speaker 1: the Confederate side, and we're talking about this one guy.
Speaker 1: And this guy did a lot of good stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: it was in some really unique places. Perseverance is what
Speaker 1: I took from it. I can't wait for the next
Speaker 1: What was your favorite part? What was your favorite halt
Speaker 1: story in this one? Yeah, we can't go around favorite
Speaker 1: halt story. You don't have to retell it necessarily, But
Speaker 1: was there one that stood out to you? Yeah, shooting
Speaker 1: that cat if, the alleged shooting of the of Captain King.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, that's being in law enforcement and
Speaker 1: having somebody wait a minute, you're here. Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: As long as it's not a turkey break, having having
Speaker 1: your fellas with you and you get in a tight
Speaker 1: spot and somebody's got your back. There's a lot to
Speaker 1: be said for that, you know. I mean you multiply
Speaker 1: that by time's ten the situation he was in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but well, and I haven't I just told the third
Speaker 1: time that he like on the next on podcast too,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the other guy he's straight up killed.
Speaker 1: I told about the guy he shot and wounded, and
Speaker 1: told about Captain King, and we just like ran out
Speaker 1: of time. So the beginning of podcast three is the
Speaker 1: dude that he's straight up killed, and you'll see that
Speaker 1: maybe it was his fault, maybe it wasn't. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave it there so self. So you liked the idea
Speaker 1: that Holt was kind of I mean, we presume he
Speaker 1: there was some some something of loyalty regardless where it's
Speaker 1: favorite story, Jonathan in this podcast. You gotta keep it
Speaker 1: to this one. I love the idea of him being
Speaker 1: this little kid, you know, and just the thick palmetto
Speaker 1: swamps and he goes out there with some gun you
Speaker 1: know that I imagine is as tall as he is,
Speaker 1: and coming back with a bear yeah, the long gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean I'm sure they didn't. I'm sure
Speaker 1: they didn't give him, you know, the best gun of
Speaker 1: the time. Right, So he's got some rough weapon and
Speaker 1: he just goes out there and he makes it happen.
Speaker 1: I just and also that's kind of that's like kind
Speaker 1: of the beginning of the spark of this extraordinary life,
Speaker 1: right Yeah, I agree. You can see that those formative experiences.
Speaker 1: Um gosh, I like so many of them. Uh. I
Speaker 1: like that he wore his hat the same way his
Speaker 1: whole life. I really I don't know why, but that
Speaker 1: was like the ninth ninth Texas Calvery No film Cavilry
Speaker 1: for for mispronouncing words recently real Hard. The Whole Life
Speaker 1: reminds me of back to the last podcast, Leon Boyd
Speaker 1: wearing the letterman jacket his whole life. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, the whole the whole war, a
Speaker 1: Confederate hat with a bill flipped up, and that there's
Speaker 1: all those pictures of him as an old man with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It just really like that I did.
Speaker 1: When I heard it. I was like that, I love it,
Speaker 1: not just that he had this thing from his his
Speaker 1: youth that it was like, this is this is where
Speaker 1: I fit from that. It seems like the keV. I
Speaker 1: can't even say it on you did a great job,
Speaker 1: Favorite Favorite party. They were gone a little bit out
Speaker 1: of left field. But I'm gonna try to explain it,
Speaker 1: the story of him like the kids wanting to hear
Speaker 1: stories from him and being like it, go get me
Speaker 1: an orange and the high and a plug of tobacco.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't partake in either of those,
Speaker 1: but I want to start now those on the same
Speaker 1: moral plane with you. I just don't hot take. I
Speaker 1: think that soda might be worse for you than tobacco.
Speaker 1: I'm saying it I'm saying it, Surgeon General, come fight me, um,
Speaker 1: but check this out. I love it because I think
Speaker 1: this gets back to something that is maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit of what you're talking about. But uh, and I'm
Speaker 1: pointing at Gary Um this idea of his in dwelling
Speaker 1: like innate understanding of his value, like identity is one
Speaker 1: of the biggest struggles for people, and if you know
Speaker 1: your identity and your value, it is going to determine
Speaker 1: a lot of how your life goes. And for him
Speaker 1: to be like an old man and be like, I
Speaker 1: got something you want, You got something I want. Go
Speaker 1: get your pennies together, get me an Ortsota and a
Speaker 1: plug of tobacco, and I will give you everything you want.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just love that it's not um,
Speaker 1: it is not what we would necessarily expect or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just like such an endearing like
Speaker 1: yeah that squeers in that story. Of all the stories
Speaker 1: that Minor Ferris Buchanan told, it felt like he was
Speaker 1: most proud of that one because that wasn't written in
Speaker 1: an article, that wasn't written down somewhere in some place
Speaker 1: on the internet, like he he searched that one out
Speaker 1: when he met this guy from that had moved to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, which was interesting of itself too. This guy
Speaker 1: had moved to Los Angeles, lived his whole life, was
Speaker 1: an old man out there and was coming back to Greenville,
Speaker 1: and that's where Minor met the guy. And it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of whole seems so far back there, like when
Speaker 1: you think of someone when the Civil War, and to
Speaker 1: think that Minor Ferris Buchanan, this guy, I don't know,
Speaker 1: miners probably in his sixties, talk to a guy that
Speaker 1: new Holt Collier that's set on his porch in Greenville
Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties, and the Holt was cracking knee
Speaker 1: high SODA's. I mean, I guess that glass bottles back
Speaker 1: then wouldn't have been an a limited bottle, right, um
Speaker 1: it you know, it just it just it's just like, wow,
Speaker 1: this really wasn't that long ago. And then when you
Speaker 1: realize that, you can say, wow, it wasn't that long
Speaker 1: ago that you know, heck, all this wild stuff was
Speaker 1: happening in this country. But that's a great story. That
Speaker 1: was a favorite story of mine too. Do we go
Speaker 1: further in depth to the Teddy Roosevelt Teddy Bear Story
Speaker 1: in future episodes. You're the assistant producer of this podcast,
Speaker 1: shouldn't you know that? Of course we do. Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: hold my next question. Now we go into a lot
Speaker 1: of detail in okay, I didn't want to like if
Speaker 1: if storytelling, we're up to me and just like everyone, Like,
Speaker 1: if y'all are all in my living room and I
Speaker 1: was telling the whole Collar story, I wouldn't have. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have told the punchline at the very beginning. But
Speaker 1: the bad thing about podcasts and people listening that don't
Speaker 1: have to listen to you, that's the reason I like
Speaker 1: Missing so much, is she has to listen to me
Speaker 1: because you talk over the top. She's listening to you, like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Missy, look at me, and yeah, let me
Speaker 1: tell your story. And I would drop the punch line
Speaker 1: at the very end. I would tell all this stuff
Speaker 1: about whole caller and then I'd go and then he
Speaker 1: got it, Teddy Roosevelt. But the way you have to
Speaker 1: do it this because Steve Ronnella gave me some great
Speaker 1: advice early in Bear Grease, as he said, don't bury
Speaker 1: the hook too deep. He really did. Don't bury the
Speaker 1: hook too deep. So you kind of have to tell
Speaker 1: people what you're gonna tell them early. So later we
Speaker 1: will talk more about the Teddy Bear dad favorite favorite,
Speaker 1: whole Car story, favorite story. You know, I did not
Speaker 1: like the knee high chewing the back of story, But
Speaker 1: because I have so much respect for this guy, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking he was trying to teach these kids a lesson,
Speaker 1: or he just wanted he had plenty of money. Why
Speaker 1: what what didn't he f you in the back up? Well,
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn a lot about Whole Caller in the
Speaker 1: next couple of episodes. I was disappointed in that. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Well, you know you can tell from what
Speaker 1: I said. You know, my appreciation has a lot of
Speaker 1: depth to it. And the depth is he pulled all
Speaker 1: that and it might be contrary to what Jonathan thinks,
Speaker 1: which I respect his view more than mine. But those
Speaker 1: people loved him. I mean, I'm telling you, the Hynds
Speaker 1: loved this kid. I mean they went to they went
Speaker 1: to shootout with him. I mean they got out and said, hey,
Speaker 1: you won't let the kid ride with this buggy, let's
Speaker 1: duke it out. And that truth. I mean, he said,
Speaker 1: I think so much of this kid. Come on, he's riding,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna whoop you, Fanny. Then when he shoots that guy,
Speaker 1: I mean he was protecting Hines, wasn't he. So? I
Speaker 1: mean this love was like father son almost. I mean,
Speaker 1: he loved this kid, and this kid loved everybody. He
Speaker 1: loved his Cavalry people, the Calvary people loved him. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you this guy was so deep and complicated
Speaker 1: in it all came natural. I mean, this guy, once
Speaker 1: you say he's a criminal, it's kind of shooting a
Speaker 1: hole in my stuff. But I think you know, he
Speaker 1: was smart enough to plot some of this stuff out.
Speaker 1: But his six buddies didn't come up there. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you know they come up there for any other reason.
Speaker 1: They loved this guy. And see and and I'll speak
Speaker 1: for Jonathan and I have talked a lot. I that's
Speaker 1: why this story is so complex and interesting because basically,
Speaker 1: and we don't even have to get into this, but
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. But what Jonathan, I think
Speaker 1: so skillfully did and there's no solution. It's not like
Speaker 1: he's right, you're wrong. Jonathan introduced the word to me. Binary.
Speaker 1: There's not it's not black or white, but like, how
Speaker 1: can how you know it's really I don't even necessarily
Speaker 1: we we kind of got to close it down to
Speaker 1: some degree. But you can say he loved him, but
Speaker 1: he also enslaved the guy. You know, Jonathan, this this
Speaker 1: this deal is black and white. To me. You gotta
Speaker 1: stringly gifted kid that loves people and wants to help people,
Speaker 1: and people go, look at this kid, man, I love
Speaker 1: him and I want to help him. And and so,
Speaker 1: I mean wherever he went, people were on his side.
Speaker 1: He was on their side. And I mean he is
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of the war. And you know why,
Speaker 1: because he loved those people around him. He didn't he
Speaker 1: didn't go, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna evaluate this now.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I need to be on the Union side.
Speaker 1: He didn't do that. He goes, Man, people, I love you.
Speaker 1: You've taken care of me. I'm gonna take care of you.
Speaker 1: Let's go to battle. Give me my m sixteen. We're going. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know to me, it's that simple. Yeah, gifted, loving guy.
Speaker 1: I love the guy. I hear you. Stop it, stop it,
Speaker 1: don't give Junth and Chiffs go back. Uh, Clay, what
Speaker 1: was your favorite story his favorite story. I can't have
Speaker 1: a favorite story. What this is a ridiculous question. A
Speaker 1: great stories? Now, I I like the Knee High Orange.
Speaker 1: I like, Uh, it's really hard for me because I
Speaker 1: know his whole life, but inside of this, inside of
Speaker 1: this one um him him getting in these gunfights was wild.
Speaker 1: The ninth Texas Calary. If y'all would have done what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, I would have been like, Nope, just pick one.
Speaker 1: I guess it was the ninth Texas Cavalry. There is
Speaker 1: hard to say you're doing great them being at the
Speaker 1: court House in Vicksburg. Man, that story, it feels like
Speaker 1: it has to be apocryphal, but it's so powerful, Like
Speaker 1: guys like that, that's the end of a movie, man,
Speaker 1: And that's just the beginning of this movie. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it was to me that this story. What's
Speaker 1: intriguing about it? And why you just couldn't You couldn't
Speaker 1: you don't want to miss anything? Is it is complex?
Speaker 1: There's no it's he is loyal. People are loyal to him.
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of subtexts around that, and why are
Speaker 1: they loyal and what's driving that? And is he is
Speaker 1: he actually free to be disloyal? I mean there's all
Speaker 1: sorts of questions around it, but at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you've got the Texas ninth Cavalry showing up
Speaker 1: and a slave master, you know, as and all those things.
Speaker 1: We have appropriately negative thoughts of of these that these
Speaker 1: things are still happening to this man. And it does
Speaker 1: sound like it's a made for movie still. I mean
Speaker 1: it just sounds it's almost like everything was so complex
Speaker 1: and you can't understand it. I mean, this was an
Speaker 1: hour long podcast, and I mean most people that's all
Speaker 1: they would know about the story. It was an hour
Speaker 1: in our commentary on it. But like there was just
Speaker 1: there was so many complexities even when you yeah, so
Speaker 1: many complexities, but no, I think I think, uh, what
Speaker 1: Jonathan did good and what he said here today, and
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do is not to like basically
Speaker 1: this idea that this wasn't a Disney story and this
Speaker 1: guy was living in the midst of it. There was
Speaker 1: time and uh, and so it's easy sometimes to hear
Speaker 1: the story and just be like, oh, this guy had
Speaker 1: a great life and you know, and when you see
Speaker 1: some of the other aspects of holtz life, um, and
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna tell them they're in the book there. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he wasn't a criminal, but I mean he just I'll
Speaker 1: never believe anything other than what I've said here today. Uh,
Speaker 1: Brent closing thoughts and then we gotta give Jonathan the
Speaker 1: closing talk is Lowell to Gary. Oh, I'm ready for them.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to get into the hunting's part. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be really intriguing because I mean he's
Speaker 1: he started when he was ten, he's twenty at the
Speaker 1: end of this podcast. He ought to be ripping and
Speaker 1: rolling in the next one. I'm looking. Yeah, it's cool. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: thanks for coming up. Man. Yeah, absolutely, Man, thanks, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it, really appreciate it. Uh, given the social
Speaker 1: details real quick, how do they find you? Oh, just
Speaker 1: black Duck Revival. You can google it, you can instagram it,
Speaker 1: Black du revival dot com. Yeah, that's the duck hunts.
Speaker 1: Goose hunts this winter are you're trying to get rid of? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think. I mean I've got like three or four
Speaker 1: spots on a hunt. Uh at the end of the
Speaker 1: year for speckle belly December. Yeah, so it's I think
Speaker 1: it's like December thirtieth to January one. Uh yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what's left. That's the prettiest one. I think those those
Speaker 1: speckle belly geese. Yeah, they're gorgeous. They taste the best.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so pretty to watch. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: super uh they're super communicative to right, So like for
Speaker 1: anybody who's in the bird hunting, that sounds more like
Speaker 1: a turkey but you know, I mean like if you're
Speaker 1: if what you like about turkey hunting is that that
Speaker 1: talking to a bird, communicating with the bird. Speckle belly
Speaker 1: geese are great for that because they talk back and
Speaker 1: forth to you all the way in uh yep uh,
Speaker 1: i'd say like if you know, closing thought, uh one, Gary,
Speaker 1: I still love you, but and you know, and I
Speaker 1: guess you know, part of me is worried that I'll
Speaker 1: be labeled a contrarian of some sort, but at this
Speaker 1: point in my life I might have already. I think
Speaker 1: I'm probably wearing that that fairly proudly. But h yeah,
Speaker 1: I would just I would just reassert my thought that
Speaker 1: what makes the story so fascinating to me is that
Speaker 1: I think that there are aspects of what everybody in
Speaker 1: here is relating that are true, right, and that we
Speaker 1: got a squirrel tree down here there, dash hush, right,
Speaker 1: and I heard that dog. But there's no way start over, Jonathan.
Speaker 1: Uh So sorry, there are elements to what everybody's saying,
Speaker 1: but there's there's truth in all of this stuff, right. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think, Well, I think what we owe to the
Speaker 1: legacy of Whold Collier is to allow him to be
Speaker 1: as multifaceted and nuanced as I think he was, allow
Speaker 1: his life and his story to exhibit those characteristics. Uh,
Speaker 1: and to continue to talk about him, you know, and
Speaker 1: and to talk about him and discuss him and think
Speaker 1: about him and look to his example. Uh, with the
Speaker 1: nuance that I think he lived his life with. And
Speaker 1: I mean there's stuff for everybody to take something out
Speaker 1: of this man's story, right. Uh. And so that would
Speaker 1: that would be my closing thought. It's this is not
Speaker 1: a again, this is not a binary story, right, This
Speaker 1: is not a binary discussion. This is a a super
Speaker 1: complicated thing. And and for me personally, that's those are
Speaker 1: the kind of people and those are the kind of
Speaker 1: stories that I feel drawn to. Mm hmm, perfect, perfect,
Speaker 1: great conversation. Guys, Send your anything you are looking to
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Speaker 1: grease at the meteor dot Com. Include your social tag,
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Speaker 1: bargain Barn Bonanza excellent. Thanks guys, Thanks for everybody that
Speaker 1: drove drove up here, and everybody everybody Yeah,