1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of I Heart Radio. Today, 2 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: on the show, we're talking pseudo science. Did you know 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: that sometimes people claim things are scientific, but well they're not. 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: We'll be looking at some scammers, some flim flammers, some 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: people who claim things are scientific but maybe they're not. 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Not really so, science can sometimes be misused, especially evolutionary 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: biology and psychology, which is often used as a way 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: to justify certain moral or ideological stances. First, I would 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: caution against using evolution as a moral compass. After all, 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: if you listen to this podcast, you know that evolution 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is one twisted sister full of murder, baby eaten and cannibalism, 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: body snatching and so on. Pop evolutionary psychology often make 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: sperious claims like women like jewelry because we picked berries, 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: and men like cars because of all those saber tooth 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: cars back in caveman times or whatever. And here's the thing. 16 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: Evolution is in a linear, simple process. It's full of 17 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: weird twists and turns, bandrels, detours and pit stops that 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: make tracing back the origins of behavioral tree It's extremely difficult. 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: It's like trying to thread a needle through the roots 20 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: of a tree, or if you'll allow another comparison, trying 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: to thread a male duck's corkscrew weener through a female 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: duck's labyrinthian vagina. The point is evolution is like a 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: duck's puzzle genitalia, twisted, freaky and weirdly beautiful. But just 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: because it's difficult to trace back human behavior to our 25 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: evolutionary roots doesn't stop a lot of people from trying. 26 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: And some of those people are well kind of bad 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: at it. They cherry picked from the evolutionary tree to 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: justify their cultural preferences, often with hateful consequences. Joining me 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: to talk about some of the pseudo scientific flim flammery 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: is Katie Stolen, Cody Johnston, hosts of the podcast Even 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: More News, producers of Some More News, and also they've 32 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: got some kind of new podcast. That's right. First you're 33 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: ever here. We're with my Heart Radio and other hosts 34 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: on their shows, Robert of Behind the Bastard's Fame. It 35 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: will be premiering. Uh, it's going to be premiering before 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: you hear this episode. Probably it's available now for you 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: to download listen. Yeah, we're the hosts of Fan Favorites 38 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: worst You're ever available now in the future, but not 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: in the future when you hear this in our future, 40 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: in our current future, low dude, your current past and 41 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: your current future and your current cool. Yeah. So I 42 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: chose this topic because I actually feel like we've you guys, 43 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: like I've talked to you guys about my frustration with pseudoscience. 44 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: I just wanted to take this opportunity to to bunk 45 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the evolutionary psychology and pseudoscience that seems 46 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: to kind of plague or political discourse. Now I love it. 47 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Um. First of all, uh, you know 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: a guy named Jordan Peterson, familiar a favorite special boy, 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: familiar with the Canadian gentleman. Yeah, he's a psychologist and 50 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: he makes a lot of claims that aren't really you know, 51 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 1: backed in fact. Kidding, Yeah, Jordan, Jordan Peterson. I thought 52 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: it was for bad boy Peterson. Man Peterson. He has 53 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: an appeal. I can get it because he kind of 54 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: talks like a dad, and he tells you things like 55 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: clean your room and stand up straight, and those are 56 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: solid advice, and then he gets into like weird like 57 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: gender and race sign He's got very specific views that 58 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: go back to his like whole his whole world view 59 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: is very interesting and where it comes from and his 60 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: his upbringing, but like he really tries to push it 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: based off of like random cherry pick fact. But you 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: know when he talks about his all meat diet that 63 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: I think we can accept as being based in science, right, 64 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: that that's good for it even water for your depression, 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: only if you're eating We actually talked about this on 66 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: last podcast. You can only have an all meat diet 67 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: if you like to eat raw meat and raw fish 68 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: and uh, if you basically follow a very strict diet 69 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: based on some Inuit cultures where you you got to 70 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: eat like raw organs to get vitamin c um and 71 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: they don't even eat it like the entire year there, 72 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: it's like sixty percent of the year. Is the does 73 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: seem like something he would be a proponent of though, 74 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: back get back to like you kill the animals. It's 75 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: just that can you imagine him killing the animal? There's 76 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: no evidence to suggest this is healthier, just that we 77 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: can do it. It's to do it, yeah, And I 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: don't recommend it because, as I talked about last time, 79 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: if you do it wrong, you can die of malnutrition, like, 80 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: if you eat only rabbits, you can starve to death 81 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: because rabbits do not contain enough nutrients to sustain you. So, uh, 82 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: you can go very wrong. So his not a nutritionist 83 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: daughter is wrong about this meat and water die. Yeah, 84 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's completely right that you should. 85 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with what the meat and water diet is. Yeah, 86 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I don't even think fishes included, do 87 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: they are they supposed to cook the meat just beef, 88 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: just beef and water, and I don't think that's Yeah, 89 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: I'm not I mean, look, I want a nutritionist, but 90 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: I don't think he can or should. I think we 91 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: can rule it out as as being not true. Um So, 92 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: one thing I wanted to talk about, which I think 93 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: is kind of his more one of his more viral 94 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: moments is his opinion on lipstick in the workplace. What 95 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: is it? So here's here's a quote. This is from 96 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: an interview. So I've cut out some of the like 97 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: back and forth like answer questions, but this is a 98 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: this is what he says. He says, quote, here's a rule. 99 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: How about no makeup in the workplace? Why should you 100 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: wear makeup? In the workplace. Isn't that sexually provocative? Why 101 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: why do you make your lips red? Here he gets 102 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: very confrontational. He's like, why why do you make your 103 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: lips red? Because they turn red during sexual arousal. That's 104 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: why why do you put rouge on your cheeks? Same reason? Um, 105 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: And he's in in the interview, they're discussing sexual harassment, 106 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: and Jordan Peterson is saying, can men and women work together? 107 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if 108 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: they can, doesn't know. We don't know the rules yet, right, 109 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: we don't know the rules. In the same in that 110 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: same conversation, he also complains about how one of the 111 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: rules at his university was to have open door meetings 112 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: with students and he will not abide by that rule. So, uh, 113 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: we don't know the rules yet. But also we do 114 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: and he doesn't like them. Unbelievable. Yeah, No, that that 115 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 1: whole quote makes me so angry when I hear it. Also, 116 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: he also thinks that a woman who wears makeup in 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: the workplace who doesn't want to be sexually harassed is 118 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: being hypocritical. Okay, cool, So obviously, uh, this is bad 119 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: because of moral reasons, so you don't understand what you're 120 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: really saying. Well, And it's funny because, like an interviewer 121 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: asked him again, like she's wearing red lipstick, and she 122 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: asked him what it means, and he said, you're enhancing 123 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: signals of youth and fecundity, which is a very normal 124 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: way to talk about things. Dislike that way. So, but 125 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: I often hear the refrain reels before fields. Facts, don't 126 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: care about your feelings, that kind of stuff. So let's 127 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: let's look at the facts, you guys, let's look at those. 128 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: I just like, what about like black lipstick? What about 129 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: like colors that he's not referring to? What about saying 130 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: you bring that up? Code? I may in fact have 131 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: something about that in just a minute here if you 132 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: just wait this Cody. Um. So, studies do indicate that 133 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: women with redder lips are concern that are more attractive. Uh. 134 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: It's been conjectured that this is due to sexual arousal 135 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: and health. But there's an obvious problem with this conclusion. 136 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: And when they do a study like this, it's like 137 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: they say, oh, maybe it's because of this, They don't 138 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: really know, they can't prove that. But One of the 139 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: issues is that men and women's when we're you know, 140 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: doing the sex, both of our lips get read. It's 141 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: not like only women. Um, and their face also, their 142 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: faces also get flushed. You know what else. People's faces 143 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: get flushed when you're walking, when you're embarrassed, when you're 144 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: excited about something. I have attractive embarrassed people. I like 145 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: to humiliate people. It's very attractive when someone's really awkward 146 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: social and going like a Jesus. Uh, yeah, I warn't 147 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: make up because I want to look nervous, right. Um. 148 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: And in fact, lipstick has been worn by men throughout history, 149 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: So this idea that it is strictly a gender thing 150 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: is uh not necessarily true. Eloys were dresses. That is true. 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: But it also this idea that redness is associated with sex, 152 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: that itself is not necessarily true. So there's a study 153 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: that examined this and they explored the idea that red 154 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: lips are associated with sexual arousal and uh red genitals, 155 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: which is interestingly. One of the theories is that, oh, 156 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: red lips are supposed to look like a red Volvo. 157 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: I guess well, I'm always but yeah, I'm always putting 158 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: lipstick on my vagina. Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, 159 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: gotta gotta get that vagina on fleek. I guess. Um. So, 160 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,599 Speaker 1: they found that in heterosexual men, and I'm sorry, a 161 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: lot of these studies are heteronormative, the redder vulvas were 162 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: less attractive. Uh So, they had like these photoshopped images 163 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: of women's volvas and they made them redder or less red, 164 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: and the ones that were redder were deemed less attractive. 165 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: I guess because they don't want, like Rudolph the rain 166 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: your vaginas. I don't know. Um so, uh the study, 167 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: so the researchers said, quote, we found in fact that 168 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,119 Speaker 1: men showed a strong aversion to red or female genitals. 169 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: Is not a sentence I normally like to say. Anyways, 170 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: the researchers continue, quote this, this study shows that the 171 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: myth of red is a proxy for female genital color 172 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: should be abandoned. This view must be replaced by careful 173 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: examination of precisely what the color red in clothing, makeup, 174 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: and other contexts is actually signaling to men. What it 175 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: isn't signaling is female sexual arousal. Um So, you know 176 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: that's not to say that it I don't necessarily think 177 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: that that study proves and negative, like it doesn't mean 178 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: that there can't be any context. So much red lips 179 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: uh signal sexuality, but to just reduce it to it's like, oh, 180 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: you know we see flushed bodies as more attractive because 181 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: it's sexual. It's making that connection is very tenuous. Yeah, 182 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: I mean you could say people wear that rugie lips 183 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: or pink lips for a youthful blush something like that. 184 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: But like you said earlier, like yeah, what about the 185 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: blue lipstick the other things, Like it's about so much 186 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: more than that, right, And so speaking of which, throughout history, 187 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: both men and women have worn lipstick for a variety 188 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: of cultural reasons. So ancient Sumerian men and women wore 189 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: lipstick made of crushed gemstones, which sounds hard to that 190 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: doesn't painful, but you know that's true. Um. Ancient Egyptians 191 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: used red lipsticks to show status rather than gender demarcation. 192 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: Red lips was traditional, but orange, magenta, and blue black 193 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: were also popular colors to show your social status. There 194 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: is more than one color exactly. During the Roman Empire, 195 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: lipstick was also an indicator of social status and not gender. 196 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: Purple lip color became popular amongst women. In addition to 197 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: the kind of more traditional red. In Germany and Britain 198 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: during the Dark Ages, orange lipstick was all the rage, 199 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: so that was the most popular lip color. In England. 200 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: During the Middle Ages, religion made red lipstick fall out 201 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: of style as it was unnatural and going against God's plan. Instead, 202 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: women would wear rose tints as that was associated with purity. 203 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: And during Edward the Fourth Sign in England, both men 204 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: and women of the court would wear lip color. And 205 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: so as you can see throughout human history, first of all, 206 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: it's not strictly associated with gender. It's also not just 207 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: red lipstick. Yeah, there's so many variables. This is why 208 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: he's he and people like him are so interesting to 209 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: me because they skip everything. They take this this little 210 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: bit that they assume about evolution, and they look at 211 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: the modern day and what they don't like about it, 212 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: and they skip all culture and all of history and 213 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: make their conclusion because they trust that most people aren't 214 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: going to go and look back at history and right, 215 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: and even when you look at the Animal Kingdom and 216 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: you look at they're both the use of makeup, which 217 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: is very rare, but when it happens, it's quite funny uh, 218 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: and just the presence of red lips. Uh. It's more 219 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: complex than just being like a sexual indicator. So we've 220 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: actually talked about this before, but I think it's a 221 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: really important example. It's the uh snub nose monkey. Uh. 222 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: Their old world love Old World monkeys who live in China. 223 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: They're really weird looking because they lack nasal bones, so 224 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: they kind of have a no nose look. And then 225 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: they have really juicy lips uh. And the males are 226 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: the ones that have the jiciest lips. That what they're uh, 227 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: they live at really high alstitudes, so that's why they 228 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: don't have a nose because their nose would get frost 229 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: bite otherwise, like they're just like, well we don't need 230 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: a nose then, so they're plump red lips maybe a 231 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: sexual selection thing to show uh, sexual availability. But the 232 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: older the male, the redder the lips. So first of all, 233 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: it's not youth, it's not showing youth and virility. It 234 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: is thought to also be a dominance signal, so like 235 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm older, I'm more dominant, and so that right exactly right, 236 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: And again like these are we're not these aren't are 237 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: like direct ancestors. So any conclusions you draw from these 238 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: monkeys is specific to these monkeys. You can't necessarily apply 239 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: to human So many things from just like they pick 240 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: any animals like that about that animal, this suits whatever 241 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: I want to say, right, you know? And I mean, like, 242 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: so take an animal that's very distant from us, like birds. 243 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: So bearded vultures will use iron rich soil to give 244 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: them a blush basically a reddish hue. And we talked 245 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: about this the last time I was on here. I think, yeah, yeah, 246 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: that makes sense. It'll enhance the red hue, and the older, 247 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: the older the vulture. As you may remember, like the 248 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: more reddit is. And so it's not just to attract mates, 249 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: although that's part of it. It's also to signal their dominance, 250 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: so their social status, which I think is interesting because 251 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: throughout human history it's been a signal of social status. Obviously, 252 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: we didn't evolve from vultures, we didn't evolve from birds. 253 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: But would you say that the desire, the instinct to 254 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: paint yourself, uh, to decorate yourself in certain ways as 255 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: a form of attraction, is a form of like expression 256 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: is very natural amongst many species. It could be I mean, 257 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: it's something that obviously doesn't occur in a lot of species, 258 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: like most animals don't necessarily decorate themselves. But you can 259 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: also make the argument that birds who are attractive, which 260 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: are typically the males, the females are typically more drab, 261 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: a little browner, and blend in with their environment more 262 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: so that they don't stick out, and it's a protective technique. 263 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: But the males are really beautiful and vibrate many different colors, 264 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: and the idea there's this more it used to be like, oh, 265 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: this is just an honest indicator of their fitness, but um, 266 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: more recently the ideas that like, maybe it's just the 267 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: females thought it was pretty and liked it, and it's this, Um, 268 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: it's a sexual selection that's for esthetic preference and not 269 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: just fitness. So it's not just an honest indicator of fitness, 270 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: but it's also they are stimulated by those colors and 271 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: they like them, and then they select them, and that's 272 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: how you get these crazy birds that in fact, their 273 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: plumage can sometimes be have a negative effect on their 274 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: overall fitness. So I think this is I mean, this 275 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: is one of the problems with looking to evolution for answers, 276 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: it's so complicated and you have so many different reasons 277 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: for you can have parallel evolution, like a bird putting 278 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: blush on, right, or a decorator clab crab decorating itself, 279 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: but the decorator crab is doing it to be camouflage. 280 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: Like it it'll pick up a little bits from its 281 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: environment and put it on. It'll like wear jewelry. If 282 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: you give it a pearl necklace, it'll put it on 283 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: because it's it just thinks it's part of its environment exactly. 284 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: So another problem with looking to evolution for answers is 285 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: that culture is a huge influence and it's really difficult 286 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: to separate like what's biological and what's cultural evolution, even 287 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: in animals. So we've seen this in primates. So savannah 288 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: baboons in Kenya are often aggressive bullies. Dominant males will 289 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: at tax subordinate males and they'll bully females basically to 290 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: get their white way. They'll bully them into submission. And 291 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,479 Speaker 1: I think it's often thought that this is like an 292 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: innate behavior, it's an instinctive thing that the baboons do, 293 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: but there's some evidence to contradict this. So a troop 294 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: of Savannah baboon's found themselves suddenly rid of their most 295 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: aggressive males. The dominant males had been aggressive enough to 296 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: fight their way into a garbage dump and eat all 297 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: the spoils, and in a karmic twist, this gave them 298 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: bovine tubercular want want did you get? Just the bullies 299 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: because they were the only ones that were able to 300 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: like fight their way to the garbage dump. Uh, So 301 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: they died off. Uh, And now the troop was populated 302 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: by females and subordinate males, and they became more peaceful 303 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: and pro social. So when they wanted things from each other, 304 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: instead of like smacking each other, they would groom each 305 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: other and like display affection and kind of just it's 306 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: a lot nicer, a lot more more peaceful. And then 307 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: this new pacifist culture has lasted over two decades. So 308 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: even after most of the original males have died off 309 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: and been replaced by new males. Uh, the newcomers are 310 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: being taught the pacifist lifestyle by the female. So these uh, 311 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: like a lot of animals, these, even though the males 312 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: will display like the aggressive males will sort of dominate 313 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: maybe um, the females form the core of the troop 314 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: because they don't migrate away from their natal homes, and 315 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: it's the males that will disperse and migrate around, so 316 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: they kind of have the core of the culture. So 317 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: so if they enforced this idea of being peaceful and 318 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: then new males come even when all the original males 319 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: die off and new males are coming around, the females 320 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: are creating this culture of being nice, just being chilled, 321 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: right exactly. And this even happens in interspecies interactions. So 322 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: captive Reese's monkeys, who are typically kind of aggressive, were 323 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: raised with peaceful sump tailed monkeys, and they learned to 324 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: be more gentle and they, according to the researchers, they 325 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: engaged in hip hugging as a form where they like 326 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: touch each other's hips and they're like, like, I like you. 327 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: That's so intimit and sweet, it's very cute, and other 328 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: things not just aggressiveness, but just other kind of cultural things, 329 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: like certain groups of chimpanzees learned to like tickle themselves. Uh. 330 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Last time on the podcast, we talked about potato dipping 331 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: monkeys monkeys UH in Japan who would dip potatoes in saltwater, 332 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: or these were maccaques, and they copied a female macaque 333 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: that would dip potatoes and saltwater and eat it. And 334 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: then that propagated throughout their whole whole thing. And now 335 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: even though all the original monkeys are dead, they still 336 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: do that. Um And different groups of primates who use 337 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: tools will use different kinds of tools, and it doesn't 338 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: really seem to track with like their environment necessarily. It's 339 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: just like a preference of some of them will you say, 340 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: they're cracking open nuts, some of them will use rocks. 341 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: Some of them you will use like sticks and stuff, 342 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: And it seems to just depend. It's like learned culturally. 343 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: So I think it's we when we think about animals, 344 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: we think about their behavior as being the static, unchanging 345 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: thing determined by their biology, which is it can be 346 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: the fact. It's often the fact that animals are born 347 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: with some kind of instinct. But I think in them, 348 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: especially the more intelligent animals, you see that influence of uh, 349 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: if not culture, at least learning certain habits from their cohort. Yeah, yeah, 350 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: shared behavior transferring over there. There's also like there's a 351 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: thing I think that it also happens where It's it's 352 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: assumption that anything that has come about from evolution means 353 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: it's automatically good, as opposed to just well that's how 354 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: it happened, right exactly, Because I mean, you know, if 355 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: you I hope that the people who listen to this 356 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: regularly have this sense of like, how screwed up because 357 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, just eating babies, uh, you know, killing each other, cannibalism. 358 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: Nothing that would track to like morality, right, unless you 359 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: think that stepfathers should kill all the existing children like 360 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: lions do. I don't know about that. I'll have to 361 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: think about it, but I gotta gotta think about it. 362 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that sounds dicey to me, but it's it's questionable, 363 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, but it's like you said, it 364 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: really is kind of a It's not a moral compass evolution. 365 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: It is what it is. And one of the great 366 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: things about being humans is we kind of get to 367 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: rise above just like we can change our behavior, can 368 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: make value judgments and things like that. That's why I like, 369 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: even despite all of this stuff, when I hear that 370 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: Peterson argument about lipstick, my reaction is, so what right 371 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: even if even if it was true, which like I 372 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: explained is probably not true. Yes, there's no, there's not 373 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: any definitive evidence that it's true. There's always a chance 374 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: that there there could find something feeling that he wants 375 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: to be true. But right, even if it is, like, so, 376 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: what we can we get to change, like we've seen 377 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: throughout history how lipstick use has changed, you know, from 378 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: orange to purple, uh to like mean different things we 379 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: get to do that. That's it's just there's a there's 380 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons, there's not just one. And we 381 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: are evolved people that know how to control our impulses. 382 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: People were lipstick literally everywhere. So yeah, that's true. That's 383 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: very well stated. Also, like even if that's like, so 384 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: if you want to ban lipstick from workplaces, do you 385 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: want to ban like shoulder pads and like stuff that, 386 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: Like I do actually because of the the kind of 387 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: door situations where you're trying to brush past someone in 388 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: their their shoulder pad smacks you in the face. I 389 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: think that's specific to like your height range, our height 390 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: range for people. But yeah, yeah, you can take our lipstick, 391 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: but you don't get to wear your shoulder pads. That's 392 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: a good compromise. It seems that testosterone pills are flooding 393 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: the market. These promised to prevent you from becoming a 394 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: quote soy boy, a term for someone with low testosterone 395 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: based on the erroneous, unscientific idea that eating soy lowers 396 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: your testosterone. The idea is that high testosterone will make 397 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: you more manly and attractive, but is this actually true. 398 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: Researchers at the biology department of the College of William 399 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: and Mary and Williamsburg at least found this not to 400 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: be true for heterosexual women. They showed women images of 401 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: men's faces that were digitally altered to mimic the variation 402 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: of facial differences due to testosterone levels. They found that 403 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: while women did perceive the high test doosterone individuals to 404 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: be more quote dominant, this had no effect on their 405 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: perceived attractiveness. Another study, conducted at the University of Aberte 406 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: Dundee in Scotland, took pictures of men and measured their 407 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: testosterone levels. Then they had women ripe the men's faces. 408 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: They found that there was no link between actual testosterone 409 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: levels and perceived attractiveness, masculinity, or health. So maybe you 410 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't be taking testosterone supplements to try to look more 411 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: manly as it could lead the heartbreak. Literally, the FDA 412 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: warns that testosterone supplements can cause heart attacks and infertility. God, 413 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 1: so you know, maybe those a is Alex Jones still 414 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: talking those codes. Oh yeah, he's got it all. Oh 415 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: my god. And the grill on mindset. Yeah yeah, it's uh, 416 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: you know. And actually, guys, if you want to be 417 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: a girl alike, you're going to have very small genital 418 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes pseudoscience can have dire consequences. The Bell Curve is 419 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: a book that was written by psychologist Richard J. Hernstein 420 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: and political scientists Charles Murray. It makes a variety of 421 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: claims that have received criticism, such as intelligence being more 422 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: heritable than determined by socioeconomic status, and that race is 423 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: different intelligence. It's often used in a racist social Darwinist 424 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: context to justify inequality by claiming that there are inherent, static, 425 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: biologically determined differences and intelligence which determines our quote ranking 426 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: in society. Often when a controversial claim such as this 427 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: is criticized, critics are accused of putting feelings before facts. 428 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: But hey, guys, let's take a look at those facts. 429 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: I would love to very exciting. So um, I think 430 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: this is one of those uh flashpoint things where it's 431 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: like this book has been often used as like, oh, 432 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: political correctness gone mad on college campuses because students don't 433 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: like for him to come speak and they they there's 434 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: a lot of criticism of this book, and it's kind 435 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: of held aloft as like oh, well, science should be controversial, 436 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: and the problem with this example shouldn't be anything right exactly. 437 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: Science should just be uh, you know, scientific. Um. So, 438 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: the book has been criticized by scientists for various methodological 439 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: issues as well as for their erroneous interpretations of the data. 440 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: So Stephen Jay Gould, who was a Harvard evolutionary biologist 441 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: and major contributor to the field of evolutionary biology, had 442 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: some pretty harsh critique of the book. Uh. He said 443 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: that the main argument of the book was based on 444 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: four false, unproven assumptions. So first, it's that intelligence must 445 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: be reducible to a single number. So like, um that 446 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: i Q is the absolute determinant of intelligence. He likens 447 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: it to like soil, like the phlevel and soil, or 448 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: like the quality of soil or something doesn't. Yeah, it 449 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: was like you look at soil and like, oh, that's twelve. Yeah, 450 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: well I do, I like, I like my men, like 451 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: I like my soil A number. Um. The second assumption 452 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: is that intelligence must be capable of rank ordering people 453 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: in a linear order. So like, you know, it's just 454 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: like this, the more the higher your number, the more 455 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: intelligent you are. And there's no like, if you're smarter 456 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: than a person, you're just absolutely smarter than them, not 457 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: that like, hey, you may be better at math, but 458 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: they're better at not getting run over by cars um 459 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: or you know, like they're better at looking at like 460 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: someone's feeling and going what if I look that up right? 461 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: Or even like if you're good at math, you could 462 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: be bad at evolutionary biology. So it's not just like 463 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,719 Speaker 1: arts for the sciences. It's just various intelligence and very 464 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: it's it's a multifaceted thing. Intelligence is not just one thing. 465 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: The other assumption is that intelligence must be primarily genetically based, 466 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: and then also that intelligence must be essentially immutable, so 467 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't change. You're born with it, you you die 468 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: with it. Basically, as we'll discuss, these assumptions are not 469 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: only unproven, but there's actually a scientific evidence that contradicts them. So, uh, 470 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: let's see first of all, One of the problems is 471 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: that it's so they make the assumption that racial and 472 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: gender differences in test scores must be due to genetics 473 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: rather than social influences. Um. They claim that when compared 474 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: to the influences of socioeconomic status, the biological influence is greater, 475 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: but the way they reach this conclusion is extremely flawed. Uh. 476 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: First of all, it's almost impossible to control for cultural 477 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: influence on is on i Q unless you like, uh, 478 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, go with Elon Musk's wet dream and drop 479 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: some people off at Mars as babies and then just 480 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: have them like grown up in a sterile environment. But 481 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: even then they would develop their own culture. And because 482 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: we're humans and it's just like so like the culture 483 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: that brought them there, right exactly, So you can't. It's 484 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems with evolutionary psychology is it's 485 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: so hard to separate culture as a conflicting variable. So 486 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: here's an example of that in action. There's a known 487 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: phenomenon in psychology called stereotype threat. It's where your test 488 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: score is affected by just being reminded of your gender 489 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: or your race. And an example of study found that 490 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: students who were women or black or Latino Latina did 491 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: significantly worse on tests just by being reminded about who 492 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: they were being reminded that of their gender or their race, 493 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: as opposed to the same demographic of students who weren't 494 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: given that. Um. This has been reproduced a few times 495 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's even like, if you remind boys and 496 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: girls of the difference in uh their performances in math, 497 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: like reinforces that makes right make sense to me, and 498 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: it bums me out. Another problem with this book, which 499 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: has got a lot of it's it's it's it's a 500 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: book of problems. Yeah that's the Yeah, that's the thing 501 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: with this book, where like you just gotta you have 502 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: to delve into every single bit, right, and I'm not 503 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: gonna I'm really not going to be able to. I 504 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: don't have time to literally don't have the studio time 505 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,719 Speaker 1: to debunk this entire book. But there are a lot 506 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: of problems. But one of them is that the Bell 507 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: curve our authors pointedly don't control for education levels. Um. 508 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: They make the assumption that education is a result of 509 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: i Q and therefore is not an independent variable at 510 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: so maddening our school funding on the wealth of the 511 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: people that live there. Did they mention that in the book? 512 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: I think there was like two footnotes about it. So 513 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: at the same time, this doesn't stop them from studying 514 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: socie economic factors, but then they exclude education. So I 515 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: think the problem with this is kind of evident. This 516 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: essentially has a minimizing effect on the power of wealth 517 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: by like excluding education as a factor. Uh, and the 518 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: ability to pour more resources into education because someone who 519 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: goes to it's this idea that someone who goes to 520 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: a fancy school goes there because they have a higher 521 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: i Q and they have it a higher i Q 522 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: because they're born with it, rather than maybe um, their 523 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: education from a very young age has been better and 524 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: they're going to these better schools and as they get 525 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: older and older, like, yeah, maybe their i Q is 526 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: going up because they're getting better education, so they wind 527 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: up at these you know, right, And I mean the 528 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: brain is the most malleable very early on, and like 529 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: if you're if you're a baby, what happens to you 530 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: in the first three or four years off your life 531 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: is going to greatly affect that. And yeah, I mean 532 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: it's you see that very markedly with say, um children 533 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: who are in some ways either severely neglected or somehow 534 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: accidentally excluded from society. So like children who are just 535 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: grow up in the woods, very rare cases, but they 536 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: cannot learn language. If you don't acquire language as basically 537 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: a baby and toddler and you're not around other people 538 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: and you don't pick up language, you can't really learn it. Yeah, 539 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: maybe you can learn one or two words, but it 540 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: really you have this crystallization period as a very young person. 541 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: So and the fact that we pick up on so 542 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: much in terms of culture and uh, language and all 543 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: these things from a very young age were just little 544 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: sponges that soak up everything around us. To try to 545 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: separate that out from the effects later in life is 546 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: it's very difficult. It's very tricky. So uh, even just 547 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: like the nuts and bolts of their statistical methodology has 548 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: been called into question. They concluded that the haritability of 549 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: intelligence is around but Carnegie Melons statisticians, that's cool, But 550 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: Carnegie Melon statisticians used the same studies um that we're 551 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: in the Bell curve and subjected them to a new 552 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: meta analysis and found that only around thirty heritability, which 553 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: is a pretty massive difference. UM which suggests that their 554 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: findings would suggest that intelligence is primarily not inherited, which 555 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: also makes sense, right, Um, but I mean it's not 556 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: I don't even know if this study is definitive because 557 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: they they're just studying these studies that are in the 558 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: Bell curve. So it's it's essentially saying that, you know, 559 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: the the statistics that the authors in the Bell Curve 560 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: came up with may not be right. So you have, 561 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: like the data they have the day they have might 562 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: not be reliable, but also the way they interpreted the 563 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: data was not necessarily correct, right, I mean at every 564 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: step basically, like the data collection may not have been reliable, 565 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: the statistics that they ran on the data may not 566 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: have been good, and then the conclusions they draw from 567 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: it have a lot of assumptions. This sounds like an 568 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: irresponsible book a little bit that it's mainly just this 569 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: book and then a bunch of other people saying the 570 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: book is wrong, as opposed to more and more people 571 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: writing books like that. Yeah, I mean that is a 572 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: little bit interesting. Although I mean if you believe that, 573 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: then you believe in climate change, and that the like 574 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: handful of sciences who are saying it's not a big deal. 575 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: Are like not not true? Is that? That is what 576 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: that would if the thing? If a thing is against 577 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: the scientific sense, is that means that thing is right? 578 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: Because Um, I don't know if you've heard, because at 579 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: one point we thought that the earth was actually the 580 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: center of the university, the sourcism and everything revolved around 581 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 1: the earth, and someone was like, and they were right. Therefore, 582 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: anything that's controversial it means that, um, it's right because 583 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: that thing that example I gave was actually before the 584 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: scientific method was developed. Tell me, was that before after 585 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,760 Speaker 1: we were wiping our butt holes with our like thumbs. 586 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: It's it's undetermined around the current, around the time. Um, 587 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: we're not supposed to do that. That's just I hear that, 588 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: So okay, I don't want to hear about it. Here's 589 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: another issue with the book, and also just with this 590 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: kind of ideology in general, is that research has found 591 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: um repeatedly that genetically speaking, between group differences like between 592 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: different races or regions, are on average less than between 593 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: individual difference. So the difference between me and you, like 594 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: you butt scraping people, it's probably greater than me and 595 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: some random person in another country. Hopefully um. In fact, 596 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 1: differentiating between races based on genome is not really straightforward. 597 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: We're a really young species, were like a hundred thousand 598 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: years old, so a lot of the differentiations that we 599 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: see between different races and ethnicities are skin deep, like literally. 600 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: Dr Jade Craig Venter, head of the Solero Genomics Corporation 601 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: in Rockville, Maryland, says that quote, race is a social concept, 602 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: not a scientific one. We all evolved in the last 603 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: hundred thousand years from the same number of small the 604 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: same small number of tribes that migrated out of Africa 605 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: and colonize the world. Um. The number of genes and 606 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: alleles that control external experience appearance like skin color are 607 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: very few and have like really drastic effects. So those 608 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: kinds of genes that you know can like change the 609 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: pigment of your skin, it's like it's a lot more. 610 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: Just a few genes can have a much more drastic 611 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: effect in terms of your appearance versus the many many 612 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: genes that are thought to control intelligence, which are it's 613 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: we don't even really understand that, and they also interact 614 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: with each other your environment, right, right, It's much more complex. 615 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: So it's like the idea that intelligence would somehow be 616 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: just as easily mutable as like skin color is kind 617 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: of ridiculous. And a study published in two thousand and 618 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: seven in the journal Genetics by Witherspoon and all I 619 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: didn't know reest was this, Yeah, you know, she's really 620 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: all trade. She gets a reverse Google. So um. They 621 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: found that random individuals within a population are far more 622 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: genetically dissimilar than the average difference between two groups. So, 623 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of what I said earlier, the 624 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: chance that you're just more it's like, you take two 625 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: random people in a population, they're going to be more 626 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: dissimilar than the kind of group differences between like an 627 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: entire population. Um. But they also found often like a 628 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: random individual from one population will be more similar to 629 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: a random individual in another population than within their own regions. 630 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: So it's basically just kind of confirming the previous finding that, like, 631 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, I have a good chance of being more 632 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 1: similar to someone like in Australia than I am. Take God, no, 633 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: so uh now is the part of the show that 634 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: I really kind of don't want to talk about, but 635 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: it's eugenic. Yeah, it's the Nazi stuff kind of have 636 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: to talk about it even though it's very upsetting. It's 637 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: a viciously racist and bigoted ideology. It's the same kind 638 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: of genocidal rhetoric used to justify the Holocaust and the 639 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,760 Speaker 1: justification for this hate. It's like the hatred of Jewish 640 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: people predated the Holocaust, and they just kind of used 641 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 1: that as a way to justify it. My Jewish side 642 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: of the family was ousted from Russia or just because 643 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: they didn't like Jewish people. Uh, and then like later 644 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: there there's all this like pseudoscience, like, oh well it's 645 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: because of this so um, not only is eugenics morally 646 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: terrible and indefensible, it's also just wrong. So the presence 647 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: of recessive genes and alleles and also spontaneous mutations mean 648 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: that you can't like do a gattica like you can't 649 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: get a gatica situation. You can't effectively get rid of 650 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: certain traits because they will basically kind of we have 651 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: like a genetic library, and we can kind of we 652 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: can have variations within that genetic library, but without like 653 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: evolving over millions of years, we can't drastically alter that 654 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: library to exclude certain traits. So even back in nineteen fifteen, 655 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: that had already been discovered, so we really had no excuse. Um, 656 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: there was a study that found that red eyed fruit 657 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: flies without a history of any white eyes uh blue 658 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 1: dragon uh or it's a Yugo card game joke. Very yeah. Um, 659 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: so they were able to give birth to white eyed 660 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: fruit flies despite the fact that they didn't have previously 661 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: these red eyed jens just due to spontaneous mutation over 662 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: millions of years. You can have an accumulation of mutations 663 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: that change your genetic library, but you can't like eliminate. 664 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 1: You can't because it's like a it's kind of a memory, 665 00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: right like right, So like an example is, um, what 666 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: you're kind of thinking of, I think is atavistic traits 667 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: where you can have an evolutionary throwback sort of spontaneously 668 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: pop up again, like having supernumery nipples, which used to 669 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: be thought to supernumery, like an extra nipple, yeah, which 670 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: used to be thought to be a trait of witches, 671 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 1: that they had these extra nipples to feed their familiar, 672 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 1: which were demonic animals. But it really is because like 673 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: when we were more simple mammals, we had a lot 674 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: we had scaz and nipples, lots of nipples and now 675 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: we don't nipples and this disappeared hundreds of thousands of 676 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: years ago, but still up. Sometimes a nipple just pops up, 677 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: like Chandler Being had an extra nipple. That's true. There 678 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: you go. Treated I knew that. I keep track of 679 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: all these celebrities that have extra nipples. Um, like Crusty 680 00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: the Clown. Yes, like Crusty exactly. Um. Also, tail stuff 681 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: can sometimes happen where it's like you're it's just like 682 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: an overgrowth of your spinal cord into like the the 683 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: caudle region, like the tail region, and it, uh, you know, 684 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: just like pops up sometimes and it's like we haven't 685 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: had that for if you if you quote got rid 686 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: of it, it would still be there. Yeah, exactly. Interestingly, 687 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: atavistic traits has been used by racist social Darwinists who 688 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: claim that certain races are inferior, despite the fact that 689 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: it just like disproves that whole idea. It proves you 690 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: can't like selectively quote unquote breed out entire swatches of 691 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: d n A because like every you know, every human 692 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: has the capacity to have a child who has supernumery nipples. 693 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to break it to you, but it is true. 694 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 1: And you know, it's like these attavistic traits also pop 695 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: up in animals, which is kind of fun. So snakes 696 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 1: sometimes grow legs just like what we got legs again not, 697 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: are they like little legs? Yeah, they're just little leg 698 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: leggies kind of like just like dragging across as they 699 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: slither around. Your legs have feet? Yeah, well feet, we'll 700 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: use have toes, sure, yeah, why not? What's so gross 701 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,879 Speaker 1: about it? It's just like a long, long, long, long lizard. Yes, 702 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,919 Speaker 1: that's exactly correct. Sometimes horses grow extra toes. Yeah, yeah, 703 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: just like an extra It looks like a little miniature 704 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: hoove growing on the other and so it's like on 705 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: the on the other hoof, well know, so like at 706 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: the back of their hoofs, you know, because like some 707 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: like some ungulates like animals that are hooved to animals 708 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: will have like not just the one big toe like 709 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: the that horses have, they have like more, yeah, exactly. 710 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: Researchers have even used genetic modification to grow teeth and 711 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: embryonic birds bringing back in dinosaur times, like the universe 712 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: already decided that the dinosaurs lost the bird to losers, 713 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 1: why do we have to bring them back? Teeth. Well, 714 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: I mean, why not give birds teeth? Look, I'm not 715 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: saying I'm on this side of the bird. I'm not 716 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: saying I'm biased in favor of birds, or that I 717 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: have an entire Twitter account devoted to making birds the 718 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: supreme rulers of the planet. I'm just saying that I 719 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 1: funded this research. I may have funded this reason. It's 720 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: like it's Katie funded research, and I think birds should 721 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: have teeth just for reasons. I don't worry about it. 722 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: Don't don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. It 723 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: scares me, Katie. I got to be honest. So, as 724 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: you may know, lack of genetic diversity and humans and 725 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: animals can cause problems. Which is yeah, so um, recessive 726 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: genes stick around because they're overshadowed by dominant genes. Um, 727 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: so they're not expressed an offspring who have inherited the 728 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: dominant genes. And right exactly, in recessive genes aren't always bad. 729 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: Like I've got red hair and blue eyes doesn't make 730 00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: me well, it does mean it doesn't mean I don't 731 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: have a soul. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly with my 732 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: mini extra nipples with which I use to feed my 733 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: toothed birds. Oh how they bite and pinch? But uh so, 734 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: but sometimes recessive genes are like diseases that that heart 735 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: harm us. But um, lack of diversity means that recessive 736 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: genes are more likely to double up. And if the 737 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 1: recessive genes happens to be harmful such a disease, we 738 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: have less protection against that. Uh. And also look, determining 739 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: which genes are good and bad is beyond our humble capabilities. 740 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 1: So pliotropy is when one gene affects multiple traits. So 741 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: like if you get rid of a gene that you 742 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: think is bad, it could have had a bunch of 743 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: positive benefits that you've accidentally and eliminated, and like vice versa. 744 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: You could think, oh, this is a gene for being 745 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: good and strong, and then it turns out it makes 746 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: interacts with other stuffen exactly yeah, and in certain environments 747 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: it will express itself and so exactly yeah. And and 748 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: gene expression is a big thing where it's like it's 749 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 1: not just you know, you've got certain genes and that's it. 750 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: Like gene expression is very mutable and react yea, and 751 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 1: so even uh in the womb, like you can have 752 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: like development that affects certain traits that become tied to 753 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: each other. So have you noticed that like all domesticated 754 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: animals have floppy ears and they usually have spotted coats, 755 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 1: So floppy ears are associated with calmer demeanors and domesticated animals. 756 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,839 Speaker 1: So a wolf rigid acuiote and a wild boar versus 757 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: accuate at all. Peggy, um, So this is actually potentially 758 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: do Recent research suggests uh. The neural crest cells, which 759 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: are a type of stem cell that is an embryonic 760 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: development and the ideas that in domesticated animals these cells 761 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:02,439 Speaker 1: are suppressed during development. And these neural cells are stem 762 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: cells that control brain and head and other parts of 763 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,240 Speaker 1: the body development. And having fewer or suppressed neural crest 764 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: cells leads to a less developed adrenal medulla adrenal medulla. 765 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful um. Having a less developed adrenal medulla 766 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: means a friendlier, more social dog or other domesticated animal. 767 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: And the neural crust cells also control things like your 768 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 1: cartilage and for for coloration. So that's why when you 769 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: take a wild fox and you try to this was 770 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 1: an experiment where they tried to breed more calm, domesticated behaviors. 771 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,800 Speaker 1: In these wild foxes, they get floppy ears and spotted 772 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: coats to despite the fact that they're not like the 773 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: closest relatives to dogs. Yeah, it's just yeah, and a 774 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: side side effect. Yeah, it's fascinating, It really is. And 775 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of interesting that, you know, you 776 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: would if you were using sort of like the pseudoscience perspective, 777 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: You're you're like, oh, they have more repressed medullas or 778 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: adrenal medulas. That means they're not as intelligent or or 779 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,399 Speaker 1: you know, but actually, in that case, it means they're 780 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: more socially, you know, Like you look at the ears 781 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: and you'd like to be like, oh, well, the actually 782 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 1: the floppiest of the ears actually indicates, like I don't know, 783 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 1: some bullshit to write, like them from being able to 784 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: vote or whatever, like like, let's let's pretend to be 785 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: sort of a pop evolutionary psychologists just sort of trying 786 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: to spin a yarn where you're like, Okay, they have 787 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: floppy ears because they look cuter and we selected the 788 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 1: cuter dogs, uh, you know, or like they don't need 789 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: their ears to perk up anymore because we're protecting them 790 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: so they don't need to be so like, you can 791 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,800 Speaker 1: come up with all these stories, um like fearful of sounds, 792 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: so they're like trying to mask themselves or whatever. Right, 793 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 1: So it's like you can come up with all these stories, 794 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 1: but it's actually really difficult. Sometimes these are just a spandrel, 795 00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 1: which in evolutionary terms means like a physical change that 796 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 1: doesn't really have any function. It's just the result of 797 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: other constructions, sort of like in a building, a spandrel 798 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: is the space between like two archways, and it's just 799 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: it's not there for any real architectural purpose. It's just 800 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,759 Speaker 1: there because it has to be there for the Yeah, 801 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: exactly like a corel. I don't think that's where it 802 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:26,920 Speaker 1: was going. Oh that's great. Sometimes pseudoscience not only threatens people, 803 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: but animals as well. Industries can use their political wealth 804 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: and power to pervert the course of scientific research to 805 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: the detriment of animals. Take, for instance, the humble salmon 806 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,719 Speaker 1: and the early two thousands of fishery biologists working for 807 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 1: the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration blew the whistle, and 808 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: the fact that he was being pressured to change the 809 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: conclusions of his research to downplay the negative effect that 810 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: hatchery has had on the salmon population, and now currently 811 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,680 Speaker 1: under Trump, the Energy Department's International Climate Office received instructions 812 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,880 Speaker 1: to not use the term quote climate change, emissions reductions, 813 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: or Paris agreement in their memos. Attacking real science to 814 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,840 Speaker 1: fit a political ideology is often referred to as licendiism. 815 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 1: It's a Russian word lysand Coism, which was coined from 816 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: the term used to describe the Stalinist policy of quashing 817 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: any science that went against the theory of trothen Lysenko, 818 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,880 Speaker 1: who did not believe in natural selection. The fact that 819 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: even killed some of these scientists who believed in natural 820 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: selection and who were against this theory troughen Lysenko thought 821 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,719 Speaker 1: that the genetics of crops could be changed by exposing 822 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: wheat seeds to humidity such that the crop yields would 823 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: be higher. Well, this wasn't true, and it's screwed over 824 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: a lot of people who needed the crops to you know, eat. 825 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,320 Speaker 1: This feels especially relevant now as climate science deniers and 826 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 1: the current administration tries to downplay the seriousness of climate 827 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 1: change as it could mess up the planet which we 828 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: need to you know, live on. So when we return, 829 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,359 Speaker 1: will discuss even more science quests. And I don't mean 830 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: adorable ducks were scientists. I'm sorry, but if you have 831 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 1: a picture of a duck in a nab coat, send 832 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:15,720 Speaker 1: it to me. We'll be right back. Throughout history, science 833 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,640 Speaker 1: has had a few growing pains, but for some reason, 834 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 1: even as we prove certain theories wrong, they just keep 835 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: popping up in modern society. Even today, there are flat earther's, 836 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 1: anti vaxer's, evolution deniers, and so called race realists who 837 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: try to lend credence to their ideologies by using suit 838 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: of scientific explanations that may have the veneer of truthiness, 839 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,880 Speaker 1: but when you actually think about it, they make no sense. 840 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,839 Speaker 1: The lack of science behind these truth the ideas are 841 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,279 Speaker 1: even more clear when you look throughout history. Unfortunately, some 842 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: of these ideas are weirdly making a comeback. Like rhrenology. Okay, 843 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:56,919 Speaker 1: let's talk about phrenology and get your caliber clowder. Such 844 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 1: a creepy thing like so connected with the Nazis, just 845 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: like let's nest so the little background, uh s. Phrenology 846 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: is an old discredited pseudoscience claiming that skull shape determines 847 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 1: personality and intelligence because when they're like distinct parts of 848 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: the brain that like, this is your intelligence, this is 849 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: your ability to cook, this is your And when they're bigger, 850 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,400 Speaker 1: they make bumps in the skull, and each bump correlates 851 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,280 Speaker 1: to a personality trait, so you can feel someone's skull. 852 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,759 Speaker 1: And phrenology has taken many shapes and forms, but like, um, 853 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 1: that was that's sort of the main thing that that 854 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: popped up in the eighteen hundreds, and there's kind of 855 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 1: been a resurgence of people talking about skull shape where 856 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,880 Speaker 1: they point to it as an indicator of a difference 857 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:49,520 Speaker 1: in intelligence between like different groups of people, like based 858 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: on sex or race, which is a problem because it's 859 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,680 Speaker 1: just there's no science to indicate that it's true. Here's 860 00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,800 Speaker 1: one big problem that it's kind of off es. So 861 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,759 Speaker 1: Neanderthals had much bigger skulls and much bigger brains, and 862 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: they lacked the I mean, it's always hard to compare intelligence, 863 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:11,880 Speaker 1: but if you're like looking at it at the metric 864 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:17,040 Speaker 1: of human intelligence, they weren't as smart as us in 865 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,360 Speaker 1: that kind of aspect, like humans were able to develop 866 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,520 Speaker 1: complex kind of second and third order tools where it's 867 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: like you use a tool to make another tool to 868 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: make another tool, which Neanderthals, it's thought that that's like 869 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 1: one reason they didn't advance socially as much as we did. 870 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,839 Speaker 1: And obviously so Neanderthals were around a lot longer than 871 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,560 Speaker 1: we've ever been around, and we've like just kind of 872 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: exponentially developed in terms of our civilization, for better or 873 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,160 Speaker 1: for worse. But you know, obviously, in nature, there's not 874 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,120 Speaker 1: strong evidence to indicate that brain size and intelligence are 875 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,840 Speaker 1: always directly correlated. It's not that brain size and shape 876 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,880 Speaker 1: and stuff doesn't necessarily like have an effect on on 877 00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,320 Speaker 1: how that brain functions. But it's just it's not like 878 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,160 Speaker 1: as simple as a bigger brain or a smaller brain 879 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: are less or more intelligence, right exactly. Like it's really, 880 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: first of all, it's hard to measure animal intelligence, as 881 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,800 Speaker 1: kind of a disclaimer, but if you use sort of 882 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: human metrics of what intelligence is, you're good at being 883 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: a smart human, right right exactly. So, for example, an 884 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: African parrot's head and brain is very tiny, but it's 885 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: considered one of the smartest birds, capable of outperforming for 886 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,640 Speaker 1: your old human children on simple physics test. Really. Yeah, so, 887 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,440 Speaker 1: like you know, the whole thing where you give a 888 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,719 Speaker 1: child like a liquid volume liquids and they're like, here, 889 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna pour this liquid into a taller glass. And 890 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,839 Speaker 1: then they're like, I want the taller glass because it's 891 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,480 Speaker 1: taller and that's more orange juice that I want more juice. 892 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,959 Speaker 1: You can't fool an African gray parrot with that. Each other, Like, no, dude, 893 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,800 Speaker 1: trying to scammy. I've seen the scam. I invented this scam. 894 00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,919 Speaker 1: Of course. The sometimes the argument is that it's brain 895 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,239 Speaker 1: to body ratio. So African grain parrots are more intelligent 896 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,759 Speaker 1: because they have a high brain to body ratio. So 897 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,160 Speaker 1: research has been just like kind of basic facts about 898 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,920 Speaker 1: animals doesn't really seem to indicate this is true. So 899 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,279 Speaker 1: here's here's kind of an example of why this is 900 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,920 Speaker 1: a problem. Humans have a brain to body ratio of 901 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,759 Speaker 1: on average about one to forty. Tree shrews have a 902 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,719 Speaker 1: one to twenty brain body ratio, dolphins have a one 903 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,680 Speaker 1: to seventy eight brained body ratio, and dogs have one 904 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: to one and ants have one to seven. Yeah, so 905 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,799 Speaker 1: according to this, ants are the most smart. Uh. Tree 906 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,560 Speaker 1: shoes are also very very smart. A lot of people 907 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,080 Speaker 1: are saying this, yes and uh, that humans are not 908 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,640 Speaker 1: as smart as the tree shoes, um, which obviously is 909 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:58,040 Speaker 1: you know it's true. I mean, have you seen the 910 00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,560 Speaker 1: tree shows either they don't even know to treat shoe 911 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,920 Speaker 1: is well, see that's the thing. They're so secret, They've 912 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,360 Speaker 1: got their entire secret society. So tree shoes are so 913 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,560 Speaker 1: smart that they know what treaties are. But the point 914 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,399 Speaker 1: is that the idea of like brained body ratio meaning 915 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 1: like more intelligent less intelligent, it's not to say that like, Okay, yeah, 916 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: if you have a brain that's like two neurons, yeah, 917 00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 1: that's going to be more simple than a brain that 918 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:30,360 Speaker 1: has like hundreds of thousands of neurons. But it's you 919 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: can't just like look at an animal and be like, okay, 920 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,640 Speaker 1: that bird is small and that whale shark is big, 921 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 1: therefore bird dumb, whale sharts. So you can't take like, 922 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,239 Speaker 1: i mean size and density or different things, right, and 923 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,920 Speaker 1: density in terms of brain is like you know, one 924 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,040 Speaker 1: of the things is like brain folds can be an 925 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,240 Speaker 1: indicator of it, Like smoother brains are considered like maybe 926 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,040 Speaker 1: not having as much neurological activity. But you know, even 927 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,480 Speaker 1: then it's like you can't know measuring these things doesn't 928 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,960 Speaker 1: necessarily like the difference between gray matter and white matter, 929 00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,879 Speaker 1: like we don't really know how that translates to intelligence, 930 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,960 Speaker 1: Like that's often pointed to in gender differences, is like 931 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,520 Speaker 1: an indicator that like, oh, well there's a difference, but 932 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 1: we don't actually see that reflected in like you know, say, 933 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: like you know, women and men who take like get 934 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: the same scores on like Ravens tests, which is a 935 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,800 Speaker 1: type of UM. It's another kind of type of i 936 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: Q test that tries to eliminate a lot of cultural factors. 937 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,560 Speaker 1: Of course you can't. Um, there's no test that is 938 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:38,560 Speaker 1: going to eliminate cultural influence. Yes, it's yeah, it's trying 939 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,640 Speaker 1: UM and you know, the gender scores are basically identical, 940 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,560 Speaker 1: and so it's you know, it's one of these things 941 00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,640 Speaker 1: where we don't we just don't understand the brain well 942 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,520 Speaker 1: enough to be able to like point out like, ha, 943 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,360 Speaker 1: that brain is a lot a lot more you know, 944 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,440 Speaker 1: fat than that one, so it's better. So much of 945 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,760 Speaker 1: this just seem it's just a lot of grasping it strong, 946 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,720 Speaker 1: like knowing like I really want this to be a thing, right, 947 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,040 Speaker 1: and and speaking about it definitively when you just can't 948 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,840 Speaker 1: write exactly. Um. I've seen like several conversations between like 949 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,280 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson and like Stephan Mall and you, who speaks 950 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,520 Speaker 1: so definitively about these things, and it's like, well a 951 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,000 Speaker 1: lot of times they're just wrong or they're just it's 952 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,600 Speaker 1: not decided and it there's so much nuance to it 953 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: that to speak diffinitively about it makes me question what 954 00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 1: your intentions? So frustrating We know that you don't know 955 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,520 Speaker 1: this answer. People don't know. The brain is hard to study, 956 00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,080 Speaker 1: like and that's the thing, and I think that's an 957 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,240 Speaker 1: important distinction, is what is their motivation for doing this? 958 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:47,520 Speaker 1: Because obviously evolutionary biology and psychology are both fields that 959 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:52,080 Speaker 1: are plagued by um just it's really difficult to study. 960 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that it's not they aren't worthy 961 00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,360 Speaker 1: disciplines or that you know, obviously, I think they're extremely 962 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,680 Speaker 1: worthy disciplines. And I think that you know, trying to 963 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,640 Speaker 1: find out why behaviors came across and stuff, that's not 964 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 1: it's not it's not all garbage science. It's just that 965 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,760 Speaker 1: it's so hard to figure these things out. It requires 966 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,960 Speaker 1: such detailed analysis and studies to parse out all of 967 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,760 Speaker 1: the um conflicting variables and that you know, we will 968 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,320 Speaker 1: try things sometimes and then like genuinely good natured studies 969 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,760 Speaker 1: that are really intellectually honest will sometimes be proven wrong 970 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,880 Speaker 1: later on. So it's like, what is your So that 971 00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,000 Speaker 1: motivation is actually very important because if you're doing a 972 00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,200 Speaker 1: study where it's like, well, I think this beetle maybe 973 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,760 Speaker 1: uses its um chills rae in like sexual selection, and 974 00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm just curious about this, and I'm proposing this thing, 975 00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,320 Speaker 1: and I'm doing the study you're doing that, it's like 976 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 1: your your whole motivation is you're curious about this thing. 977 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,520 Speaker 1: You want to find out the truth. When you're like, 978 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, maybe chicks can't just do can't do math, 979 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,360 Speaker 1: and maybe it's okay to that they you know, are 980 00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:00,920 Speaker 1: pressed in society or something, right, David blatant motive for 981 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,400 Speaker 1: why they're trying to extrapolate this specific conclusion from something 982 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't have a conclusion, And usually the motivation, in 983 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,560 Speaker 1: my opinion, is to justify social inequalities, so like to 984 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,600 Speaker 1: say that if certain like if if a gender or 985 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,760 Speaker 1: race is not doesn't have as many resources or rights 986 01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,480 Speaker 1: as another one that's okay because they're in fear. That's 987 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,200 Speaker 1: how it is. Yeah, that's just how. And I'm it's 988 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: like any time, like the burden of proof for that 989 01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,880 Speaker 1: kind of claim. It's not only high morally but just scientifically. 990 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: It's like, I feel like you should just be very 991 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: skeptical of anyone who makes a sweeping claim about human behavior, uh, 992 01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,680 Speaker 1: in any capacity, especially though if it's in that vein 993 01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:48,040 Speaker 1: where it's like everything's don't don't rock the boat, stop 994 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,640 Speaker 1: trying to Yeah, it's yeah, you see it a lot again. 995 01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,440 Speaker 1: I keep coming back to Jordan Peterson, but like his 996 01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,120 Speaker 1: like his lobster thing, it's very much like no hierarcharies 997 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,040 Speaker 1: is good, don't rock the boat because the way lobsters operated, 998 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 1: therefore society works the way it's as if. Yeah, I 999 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,880 Speaker 1: mean that's so funny to me because of all the 1000 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,680 Speaker 1: animals that you could have picked, like a lobster is 1001 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,200 Speaker 1: maybe one of the furthest it isn't the furthest, but 1002 01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,960 Speaker 1: so far back on the evolutionary tree, like uh, sea bugs, 1003 01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,280 Speaker 1: like what are you doing man? And and like just 1004 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,320 Speaker 1: the idea that because it's also although they are remembering 1005 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,040 Speaker 1: little merdmaid like wasn't that Sebastian, Oh it was a crab, 1006 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,160 Speaker 1: So maybe we should be looking to crabs, right, that's 1007 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:39,600 Speaker 1: actually a Disney propaganda for some feminisms bat or something. Um, 1008 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,919 Speaker 1: but these also these It's always interesting because as we've 1009 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,520 Speaker 1: sort of you've been talking about this whole time, uh, 1010 01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:54,000 Speaker 1: making a claim like that from evolutionary biological standpoint without 1011 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,680 Speaker 1: like saying like have you have you talked to an 1012 01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,920 Speaker 1: anthropologist about this and historian about this, and people who 1013 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,880 Speaker 1: are aware of these kinds of things that are like, oh, 1014 01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,280 Speaker 1: actually that's related to this, or like that wasn't always true, 1015 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:11,160 Speaker 1: and uh, they don't seem to be open to all 1016 01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: of the variables and the nuance that is required. I 1017 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:16,640 Speaker 1: wonder why. I wonder what we'll also, I mean, like 1018 01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: Peterson doesn't want ethics panels for science, so he has 1019 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,520 Speaker 1: a specific agenda. He has this he wants he basically 1020 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,520 Speaker 1: wants like the fifties again, where women are in their place. 1021 01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 1: You have sort of like you know, uh, white people 1022 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,240 Speaker 1: have all the privilege and you know, and science was 1023 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,600 Speaker 1: king dips into like low i Q people not participating 1024 01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,600 Speaker 1: in society and eugenics, yes, eugenic yes, he does well 1025 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,320 Speaker 1: speaking of all this, I wanna in the show with 1026 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:52,320 Speaker 1: something that is very funny. Well it's terrible, but funny. 1027 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:58,919 Speaker 1: So physiognomy. Physiognomy, which is a Nazi Furries wet dream. Look, 1028 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm not by the way, I'm not slandering all Furries. 1029 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,840 Speaker 1: Good job, good job on kicking Polo Annapolis out of 1030 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,520 Speaker 1: that convention. So they're really taking a stance against the Nazis. 1031 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:16,040 Speaker 1: Nazi Furries are right, very vigilant about keeping fascist Nazis 1032 01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:20,520 Speaker 1: out of there. That's great. Yeah. The So physiognomy is 1033 01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:24,360 Speaker 1: the idea that someone's outer appearance, such as facial structure, 1034 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,160 Speaker 1: is an indicator of personality and intelligence. So this was 1035 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: popular during ancient times like uh in in ancient Greece, 1036 01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,840 Speaker 1: uh and in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Um. One 1037 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,960 Speaker 1: of the claims is that animal like features indicated a 1038 01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:43,480 Speaker 1: personality similar to that animal. So like a lion like 1039 01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:45,960 Speaker 1: face meant that the person was going to be more 1040 01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,440 Speaker 1: bold and brutish, and like a dog like face is 1041 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,920 Speaker 1: going to be more like submissive. Um. Actually, let me 1042 01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,880 Speaker 1: show you some of these because it's extremely funny. Here's 1043 01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:01,080 Speaker 1: a here's a science for you face face looks more 1044 01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:10,080 Speaker 1: like lyon, therefore person more like lyon. Uh. It's so 1045 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,480 Speaker 1: fascinating well because also like there's an element of like 1046 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,360 Speaker 1: people might treat you differently if you look like a lion, 1047 01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,200 Speaker 1: and that might affect your personality behavior. But it's not 1048 01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:24,000 Speaker 1: because of that, but also just it's also they weren't 1049 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:29,720 Speaker 1: like doing studies ums like the same, same, same, same. 1050 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:34,200 Speaker 1: Like here's one see he looked like dog. They're funny. 1051 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:39,520 Speaker 1: Maybe he's like a dog. Dog therefore is right And 1052 01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,000 Speaker 1: this uh sounds like something that would just like how 1053 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,920 Speaker 1: it would just be dismissed um before the eighteen hundreds. 1054 01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,800 Speaker 1: But so this almost derailed the course of evolutionary biology research. 1055 01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,160 Speaker 1: So Charles Darwin was almost barred from sailing on the 1056 01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:00,440 Speaker 1: the Beagle because the captain was a fan of physi agnomy, 1057 01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,920 Speaker 1: so he didn't like the shape of Darwin's nose. So 1058 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:11,160 Speaker 1: Darwin wrote, quote, this captain was an ardent disciple of Lavador, 1059 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,040 Speaker 1: who I guess as a physiognomist, and he was convinced 1060 01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,680 Speaker 1: that he could judge a man's character by the outline 1061 01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,880 Speaker 1: of his features. And he doubted whether anyone with my 1062 01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,000 Speaker 1: nose could possess sufficient energy and determination for the voyage. 1063 01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,360 Speaker 1: But I think he was afterwards well satisfied that my 1064 01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:37,040 Speaker 1: nose had spoken falsely drag him Darwin. Ye oh, my gosh. 1065 01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,760 Speaker 1: It's so it's just I mean, it's silly, it's funny, 1066 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,520 Speaker 1: but I think it's kind of like it's fun to 1067 01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,600 Speaker 1: laugh at it. But I think it's a really good 1068 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,880 Speaker 1: reminder that, like, just be alert for these kinds of things. 1069 01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,400 Speaker 1: Anyone telling you something that kind of seems like snake oil, Like, hey, 1070 01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,640 Speaker 1: if he's got a face that looks like a bird, 1071 01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,440 Speaker 1: maybe he's bird like, Like that doesn't make any sense, 1072 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,840 Speaker 1: but you know, I mean I've seen just kind of 1073 01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,600 Speaker 1: anecdotally like this a sort of more of these kinds 1074 01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,120 Speaker 1: of things of like well maybe you know, like skull 1075 01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,640 Speaker 1: shape or like face shape or whatever, you know, has 1076 01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,480 Speaker 1: some kind of thing to do with personality, and it's 1077 01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:26,240 Speaker 1: just just be alert to that and like being legitimized 1078 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 1: by people who have the air of and there's so 1079 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,960 Speaker 1: many grifters that have a platform and being elevated that 1080 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,720 Speaker 1: you know, things are happening today across the board that 1081 01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:42,240 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have been able, you wouldn't expect it happened. 1082 01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a very good warning to be on 1083 01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,640 Speaker 1: guard for this kind of ship. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh. 1084 01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with the Prigger You website, 1085 01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, we're familiar the website that says not an 1086 01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:00,720 Speaker 1: accredited universe, but that's the one. It is weird how 1087 01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,800 Speaker 1: because they do get like they will get professors on 1088 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,240 Speaker 1: there and such. So it's like it's not that it's 1089 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:10,600 Speaker 1: all just like Ben Shapiro, you know, whining about pronouns 1090 01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. But oh Benjamin talking about how comedy is 1091 01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,160 Speaker 1: dying running into a Nazi whoops. Um. But yeah, so 1092 01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,640 Speaker 1: it's like it's kind of trying to legitimize a lot 1093 01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,600 Speaker 1: of these these things, and is he looking at it 1094 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,880 Speaker 1: as a whole, like, I mean, even have a video 1095 01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,920 Speaker 1: about how the Civil War was actually about slavery. It's 1096 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,040 Speaker 1: good job. Oh they do have Oh I see, Okay, 1097 01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:39,800 Speaker 1: that's confusing to me because typically yeah, um, but again 1098 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,000 Speaker 1: that's like they try, they try to make it legitimate. 1099 01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,600 Speaker 1: But then they'll have one on They had one where 1100 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:51,280 Speaker 1: it was like it was by Praeger himself, Dennis Trager, 1101 01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,440 Speaker 1: where he was talking about the power of the visual. 1102 01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:55,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys saw this one. But 1103 01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:00,400 Speaker 1: it was like saying that men are just hard wired 1104 01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:04,480 Speaker 1: to be more attracted to visual stimuli, and they were 1105 01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,720 Speaker 1: aroused by visuals, whereas women won't aren't and they can't 1106 01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,439 Speaker 1: understand it and so um and and he's like, that's 1107 01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,720 Speaker 1: this is not to justify sexual assault, like whoa buddy, 1108 01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:20,679 Speaker 1: what this? Um? Yeah, they know they know that that's 1109 01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:25,160 Speaker 1: but it's basically saying women or men are attracted by 1110 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:32,000 Speaker 1: visual stimuli like hot ladies. Of course, it's it's right exactly, 1111 01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:35,160 Speaker 1: it's all heteronormative, of course, like it's always been attracted. 1112 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,960 Speaker 1: Although he does mention like, oh, well, you know, women 1113 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,520 Speaker 1: don't look at pornography, but game in look at pornography 1114 01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:49,439 Speaker 1: or whatever. I don't even know why speaking of citations needed. 1115 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,040 Speaker 1: A study found that even though women when they were 1116 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:58,320 Speaker 1: sort of surveyed they may report less being like visually stimulated, 1117 01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,840 Speaker 1: when they actually measured their brain responses brain activity identical 1118 01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,439 Speaker 1: to men when they were shown um, you know, like 1119 01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,479 Speaker 1: sexual image. Yeah it was so you know, it's like, 1120 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's one of these things where you 1121 01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:17,720 Speaker 1: can have Again, it's so hard to separate culture from biology, 1122 01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:22,960 Speaker 1: right exactly, so I mean, for example, obviously different cultures, 1123 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:27,160 Speaker 1: different clothing styles, different things are considered attractive. We used 1124 01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:31,000 Speaker 1: to get hard about ankles, you know. So it's I 1125 01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 1: just if you take one thing away from this whole 1126 01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:39,080 Speaker 1: fun journey through pseudoscience is if something sounds like a 1127 01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:42,960 Speaker 1: big claim, it might be and just check out the CITA, 1128 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,759 Speaker 1: like read the studies it's based on. Oftentimes those studies 1129 01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 1: will you know, maybe not actually say what the person 1130 01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,360 Speaker 1: is saying. They're saying right and there, and it's not 1131 01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,080 Speaker 1: like all It's not like studies are always perfect. Like 1132 01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,439 Speaker 1: there could be a study that makes a claim like 1133 01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,759 Speaker 1: or they do something and then in the discussion section 1134 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,559 Speaker 1: they're like, we think maybe this, but they don't. That's 1135 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,880 Speaker 1: just an assumption right there. They're Oftentimes studies like that 1136 01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,200 Speaker 1: are used to say that the thing is true when 1137 01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:16,479 Speaker 1: studies like, yeah, they're speculating right exactly. So, uh, you know, 1138 01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,800 Speaker 1: and studies can be flawed too. I mean that's not 1139 01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:21,640 Speaker 1: I don't think people you know, don't not trust the 1140 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:26,000 Speaker 1: larger body of scientific research, but just you know, I 1141 01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:29,960 Speaker 1: think being having a sort of critical eye for things 1142 01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,679 Speaker 1: is really important, especially if someone is trying to trying 1143 01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,360 Speaker 1: to tell you button up your shirt, keep your shoulders straight, 1144 01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,479 Speaker 1: and don't have women in the workplace. Yeah, if it's 1145 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,240 Speaker 1: like if there's like a political or social agenda that's clear, 1146 01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,840 Speaker 1: or like a conclusion that's being made and it's based 1147 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,479 Speaker 1: off of this kind of stuff. Question that right? Uh, 1148 01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,080 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's really misused a lot and again more 1149 01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:56,360 Speaker 1: and more and more by publications and figures. That's fun. 1150 01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:00,160 Speaker 1: That is cool? How fun? What fun we've had? What 1151 01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,240 Speaker 1: fun we've had? I feel like if I if you 1152 01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:07,040 Speaker 1: did physiognomy on my face, I'm trying to think what 1153 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:11,639 Speaker 1: I would look like. I feel like human being, human being. 1154 01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,400 Speaker 1: That's a good one. Yeah, I think I think a 1155 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,680 Speaker 1: human being, right, I think definitely being You know, you 1156 01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:21,559 Speaker 1: look like human being, an act like a human being, 1157 01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:25,360 Speaker 1: you might be being human being. Also like the idea 1158 01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:30,640 Speaker 1: that like all like one species of animal has like 1159 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:35,720 Speaker 1: a personality. It's also weird, like I mean, look at 1160 01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:40,920 Speaker 1: any dog. Probably not true. Also the lion like face. 1161 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,080 Speaker 1: I might post this online, but like the lion like face, 1162 01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:48,080 Speaker 1: it was also their mustache and beard hair like the 1163 01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:53,759 Speaker 1: hair style Cody, you have a beard, so clearly you're 1164 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:58,120 Speaker 1: like a lion. You eat babies. But if I were 1165 01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:01,679 Speaker 1: to shave, if I personality would change with you would 1166 01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,400 Speaker 1: stop eating babies, which I mean, maybe you should shave. 1167 01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,519 Speaker 1: No you haven't. I mean I've been trying to say 1168 01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:11,439 Speaker 1: it for a while now. It's very distracting, the eating 1169 01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,960 Speaker 1: the babies. Yeah, I mean, and then he doesn't finish them. 1170 01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:19,320 Speaker 1: So we've got like that. But like we get ants. 1171 01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,760 Speaker 1: And one time we came back to the office and there, 1172 01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,840 Speaker 1: which is a room full of lies, was that the 1173 01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:29,280 Speaker 1: baby though it might have been my coffee. Well, this 1174 01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,880 Speaker 1: has been a delight. So do you guys want to 1175 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,000 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about all the things that you do, 1176 01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:38,320 Speaker 1: because you do a lot of things, a lot of sure. Um, 1177 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,000 Speaker 1: we have our own podcast called even More News. Our 1178 01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:45,120 Speaker 1: YouTube show is called some More News, and you can 1179 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,559 Speaker 1: check us out on patreon dot com slash some More 1180 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,200 Speaker 1: News if you'd like to support us. Hear all that 1181 01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:52,479 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Social media is all some More News, 1182 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,800 Speaker 1: and then our news show with Robert Evans is called 1183 01:12:55,960 --> 01:13:01,400 Speaker 1: Worst Year Ever. It will be released releasing when you 1184 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:05,760 Speaker 1: hear this, um social media first year pod. Yeah, I'm 1185 01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,400 Speaker 1: so looking forward to that. It's gonna be fun and 1186 01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,720 Speaker 1: all basically we're yeah, we're doing everything. Uh, you know, 1187 01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:14,880 Speaker 1: for the rest of this year, we're gonna be going 1188 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,240 Speaker 1: in depth on candidates and talking about different issues and 1189 01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,040 Speaker 1: things like that. In the next year news sources. Um. 1190 01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:23,759 Speaker 1: Next year we're gonna start traveling around going to contention. 1191 01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,120 Speaker 1: Now you not thank you for taking that weight upon 1192 01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:30,680 Speaker 1: your shoulders. It was exciting. It still is, but now 1193 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,840 Speaker 1: it's like, oh God, there that's happening. And you can 1194 01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:39,080 Speaker 1: find us on the internet Creature feature Pod dot Com, 1195 01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:43,400 Speaker 1: Creature Feature Pod on Instagram, Creature feak Pod on Twitter, 1196 01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:48,720 Speaker 1: at t tee that is a um and you can 1197 01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,439 Speaker 1: find me at Katie Golden and at pro bird Rites 1198 01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:56,040 Speaker 1: where I say we give teeth to birds. And thanks 1199 01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,320 Speaker 1: to the Space Costics for their awesome song Exo Lumina. 1200 01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:01,720 Speaker 1: Cre 's Your Feature is a production of I Heart 1201 01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,800 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from our Heart Radio, 1202 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 1: visit i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1203 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:09,360 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.