WEBVTT - Released To Die: Episode 2 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:05.000 Hey, party people, It's Rosie Perez. If you like sasa 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.960 as much as I do, I hope you'll join me 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:13.840 in person. At WNYC. We're celebrating a new podcast that 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.840 goes deep into the history of salsa in Nueva York. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.560 We'll talk about the music and get a special live 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:26.360 performance from two time Latin Grammy winner Ella Brick. June thirtieth. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:38.440 Tickets at WNYC dot org, slash Events. 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:42.920 Puturo investigates Embassida. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.559 A few months after Frank Ross is released from prison 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.760 on compassionate release. We meet a woman named Marie Scott, 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.480 but she doesn't use that name very often. 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:00.360 I'm so used to. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.440 The police calling me Maurice goott till I don't even 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.480 use that unless I have to be talking to a cop. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.600 For decades now, she's gone by Michi. Michi is seventy 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.959 two years old. She was sentenced to life in prison 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.720 at just nineteen years old, and she spent more than 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.840 half a century at a woman's prison in Pennsylvania. In 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:27.160 January of twenty twenty six, she was given a second chance. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.440 So I'm free. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.400 I have to do with fifty three years in prison, 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.160 and right now it doesn't even feel like I have 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.399 feet because everything I. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.760 Do is flu. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.280 She's now getting adjusted to her new life, But before 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.200 she was released, Michi says she spent years dealing with 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.240 health issues inside the prison. It started with pain full 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.120 sciatica that made it hard to walk. She thinks this 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.160 was from decades of sleeping on a hard prison mattress. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:15.840 Sciatica hit my right leg and I dragged it until forever, 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.480 and that kind of pain when you have a sciatic attack, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:19.720 people don't understand. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.440 That's the kind of pain that makes you holler. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:26.679 Coupled with decades of prison meals, lacking in nutrition, limited 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:32.080 access to the outdoors, and little access to doctors, Michi's 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.720 health issues grew. She says she also worried about cancer. 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.079 She saw so many women inside the prison getting diagnosed 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:42.560 when it was already too late. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.280 Many of women had died of cancer in the here 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:47.320 died shortly thereafter. 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.040 And there is something to her observation. A recent study 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.280 from the National Institute of Health found that women in 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.320 prison are more likely to develop some kinds of cancer, 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.600 and they are also more likely to die because of it. 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.600 Mitschi didn't have this information then, but she says The 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.359 women at MUNCI didn't trust the prison to take their 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:15.280 health concerns seriously, so they kept tabs on their own bodies, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.760 their own health. One day, Mitschi found a lump in 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.080 her breast and she pushed to see a doctor. 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.160 And he said, miss Scott, I said yeah. He said, 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:29.240 I'm sorry to. 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.240 Tell you have breast cancer. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.880 Mitschi says she fought cancer behind bars at the same 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.400 time that she applied for commutation. That's a process that 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.800 requires governor approval and that basically suspends the rest of 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:51.800 a person's sentence. Eventually, Mischi was granted her freedom. She 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.040 was released just two days before Frank Ross in January 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:57.240 of twenty twenty six. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.880 I'm just so glad that I'm still a lie while 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:01.680 I'm out here. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.680 I got free. Being free is one. 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.760 Thing, but staying alive is another, and That's what I'm 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.320 trying to do. Stay alive. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.080 Michi's story would soon paint a vivid picture of what 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.480 growing old and getting sick in prison feels, like, how 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.640 similar her experience was to Frank's, and how me and 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:32.280 a woman can make those health challenges somehow even tougher 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:42.160 to navigate in prison. From Futuro media. It's Latino usay. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:49.520 I'm Maria Hosa. Today released To Die Part two. It's 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.880 a three episode mini series about incarcerated elders and the 0:04:53.960 --> 0:05:01.880 grain of American prisons. For this episode, we're going to 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.960 step away temporarily from Frank's story and we're going to 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.400 hear about Michi's experience and the particular challenges that face 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.599 women who are getting older and getting sick in prison. Now, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.039 it's undeniable that we know less about the experiences of 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.320 women behind bars. Part of that is because women make 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.760 up a smaller percentage of the incarcerated population across the board, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.040 in both federal and state prisons. The Prison Policy Initiative 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.719 says that about ten percent of people in prison are women. 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.679 But just as a number of aging people behind bars 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.160 is growing rapidly, so is the number of women. According 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.479 to a study by the Pennsylvania re Entry Coalition, the 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.440 rate of incarceration for women rowse more than fifty percent 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:53.120 faster than that of men between nineteen eighty and twenty fourteen. 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.400 That's why experts say it's important to understand how both 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:02.040 gender and age play upart in healthcare needs and why 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.200 reform aimed at reducing the number of elderly incarcerated people 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.000 is actually really important and also, dear listener, a warning. 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.080 There are mentions of sexual assault, so take care. Senior 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.120 producer Julia Ta Martinelli picks up the story from here. 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.520 A few weeks after her release. On a dark, rainy 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.360 morning in April, Suave, Michi and I meet at Community 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.919 College of Philadelphia, where Suave works. We sit down together 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.040 in a classroom. Michi is short, or maybe she looks 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.799 shorter than she actually is. She's crouched over a walker 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.880 that she now needs to be mobile. She is a 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.599 black woman with light skin and a bald head. She 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.880 has this great, big, friendly smile with a gap between 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:55.160 her front teeth. On this day, she's wearing a matching sweatsuit, sneakers, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:07:01.080 and a silver chain. She's got style. Before we get 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.039 into her cancer diagnosis in prison, Michie asked if we 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.360 can take a detour to talk about her past. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.440 I was raised in Teeneck, New Jersey, three blocks from 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.200 the Isley Brothers. We all grew up together, going between Teeneck, 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.040 New Jersey, to Peka, Kansas and Orlando, Florida. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:20.760 Those are the places that I grew up. 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.720 Michi lived with her dad. Her mom had passed away 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.240 when she was young, and she says her father's girlfriend 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.840 just didn't like having her around, so she was shuffled 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:38.080 around the family. At some point, Michie says that she 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.000 and her older sister ended up living with an aunt. 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.040 Michie says that her sister was sexually assaulted by their uncle, 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:46.960 and later so was she. 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.160 I learned how to jump out of second floor windows 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.440 because he would pick my lock and I couldn't keep 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:57.880 out of my room. 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.920 When she got older, Michi says she oathered the courage 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.200 to tell her aunt. 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.920 You know, I wasn't like let this was for comedy again, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.520 and I'll kill him. I didn't have to kill her effect. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:11.400 I was only five six seven in widow until I 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:12.680 was fifteen years old. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:19.160 She says, nothing really came of it. Michi felt ashamed. Later, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.440 when staying with her grandfather, she says she was molested 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:24.640 by a neighbor. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.320 And he said, if you scream, I'll kill you, and 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:38.200 I didn't scream. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.959 By sixteen, Michi had a baby. By seventeen, she had 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.760 run away in the streets. She says she was introduced 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.400 to all kinds of things, but the worst do. 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.360 Nobody tell you, Hey, this is Haron. You take this. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.560 You're gonna throw up and not like it at first, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.560 but after that you're gonna need it after three days, 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.839 and you're going to start feeling sick, dope, sick. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:04.720 That's exactly what happened. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.200 I got shot, I got stabbed, I got sodomized. I 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.800 got everything that could happen to somebody that young. If 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.360 you homeless in New York, you're gonna get raped. That's 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:16.440 par for the course. 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.959 Without support and now fighting an addiction, Michi says, so 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.400 she decided to give up custody of her son. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.480 And I could not figure out how I was going 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.760 to take care of my son the right way. I 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.960 had to give him up because my desire to get 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.240 that sickness off of me was greater than the need 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:37.520 that I needed to take care of my son. 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:38.960 I couldn't think logically. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.199 Eventually, she says, she was able to get clean. Her 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.280 father told her to return to Philadelphia. 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.480 And that was the worst thing that could have happened 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:48.720 to me. 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.560 Moving back to Philadelphia would change her life forever. Not 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.480 long after she moved back home, Michie says to her 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.080 father's girlfriend once again and kicked her out. She took 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.240 the first job she found at a restaurant. One night, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.280 while working the cash register at the front, Michi says 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.839 that her sister ran in. She told her that she 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.560 heard the men about to come in were planning to 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.080 rob her. When the men walked into the restaurant, Michi 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.800 says she told them she had a gun under the register, 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.880 a lie, and then. 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.240 All of a sudden, this guy comes from the in 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.440 part of the restaurant and has a silver gun up 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.319 in his hand, and he's telling them to get the 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:38.800 hell out, cussing it to the guys. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.679 After a life of abuse, Michi says she felt cared for. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.760 I felt like if a guy took me to the movies, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.480 he was in love with me, if he wanted to 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.920 take me to dinner, he's getting ready to pull out 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:52.400 a ring and. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.480 Ask me to marry him. So if he saves my life, 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.400 how do you think I feel? He's hero all my 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:00.640 life for me? There's nothing to. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.040 This guy that asked me did I would say no to? 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.000 So ten days later, when he asked me to go 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:12.080 on a robbery. 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.840 With him, I said, what am I supposed to do. 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:15.920 He said, just be a lookout. I said look out 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:16.199 for what? 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.160 And he said for any band that comes or cops 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:20.560 to come. 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:22.800 But it didn't end up happening like that. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.920 Michi says she had never done anything like that, but 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.079 she figured all she had to do was stand outside 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.880 a gas station. The man named Leroy would go inside 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.640 and take the money from a safe. In her head, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.280 at nineteen years old, Michi says she just saw an 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.240 opportunity to help this man, this hero who had helped her. 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.439 She didn't think too much about it. She figured it 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.880 would all be done in a matter of minutes. Instead, 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.120 when they got there. 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.360 He wanted me to go inside with him, and he 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.520 wanted me to search the man when he put that 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.760 knife around his neck, and the man had to watch 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.160 a wallet and a gun, and I felt it. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.320 I don't know how many. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.760 Hundreds of times lifeers will always think to themselves in 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.599 their rooms, some quiet place, how that crime could have 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.680 been done differently. I wished that I would have took 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:23.640 that gun and shot my codeyfind it. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:25.280 That's what I wished. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.760 What actually happened was far different from the fantasy that 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:31.840 she would later envision in her cell. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.000 We went in, I searched him. 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.199 I went to the safe, and the man had told 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.520 us his name is mister Michael Kirgan. I don't want 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.040 to call him the man, because he's part of me. 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.520 Mister Kirkhan said, there's a safe over there. It's already opened, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.640 and I went over it and there were these coins 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:52.880 wrapped up in paper. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.240 That's all it was in the safe, and I took 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:56.560 them all me. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.800 She says. When she looked outside, she saw the victims 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.480 coworker who was arriving for his shift. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.720 I screamed, and when I screamed, the gun went off. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.480 And I didn't see it, but I knew that he 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.720 had killed our victim. And he ran to the door. 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.600 And my feet are like stuck like seamen in the ground. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.439 That man lost his life for eighty seven dollars, no number. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.360 If I had said eighty seven million dollars, that man 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.880 lost his life for a million dollars, it wouldn't be 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.560 worth it. No money, no, nothing would be worth taking 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.680 somebody's life. I can tell you that, even though I 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.640 didn't kill him, I'm responsible for his death. And I 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.880 can tell you what it feels like to be responsible 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:49.839 for killing. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:14:04.480 Somebody Michi and the shooter went to trial separately. Both 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.440 received life sentences. Me she says, she never spoke to 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:08.959 him again. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.960 I hated him for using me, knowing that I never 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.000 knew anything about how to nobody. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.040 You didn't have to do that. Why you take me 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:18.440 with you? 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.720 Her first few days in prison were a blur. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.280 I wasn't even thinking about that I killed anybody, because 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.080 in my mind, I didn't shoot nobody, I didn't stab nobody. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.240 I'm not a killer, but I'm in jailed for first 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:33.920 degree murder. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.600 She remembers being in a room in a group of 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.120 women reading a newspaper. They kept looking at her. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.800 And they said, this is you. I was on front page. 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:46.160 I said, oh God. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.320 When we come back, we hear more from Michi about 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.360 her life in prison. The challenges of accessing healthcare inside 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.680 and now being a woman makes the situation all that 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:02.800 more complicated. 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:26.680 Stay with us. Yes, have you ever. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.080 Seen people fighting on TikTok? But you can't figure out 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.080 for the life of you, why want to know. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.520 All the juicy social media drama but also want to 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:34.280 protect your piece? 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.320 On the go Touch Grass podcast, comedians Elise Morales, That's. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:39.880 Me and Millie Tamaraz. 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.880 That's me break down the week in internet discourse, viral memes, 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.040 TikTok trends, and niche influencer drama. So you can go 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.560 to literally anything else with your time. 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:54.040 Whether you're happily offline or extremely online. Go Touch Grass 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.120 podcast is the pod for you. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.600 It's Latino USA. I'm Maria no Hosa. We've been hearing 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.360 from Michi about how a traumatic childhood ultimately led her 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.280 down a road that ended in a prison cell. Now 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.600 we're going to hear from her about what growing older 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:22.480 and sicker in prison really feels like. Senior producer Jujiata 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.760 Martinelli continues the story here. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.080 And that's how the years went by at sci Munci. 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.920 Mitchi says that she was far from a model prisoner. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.680 In the beginning, she ran away three times. On one occasion, 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.400 she was caught a couple of months later. 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:43.880 I was eight weeks pregnant, she says. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.640 She gave birth in shackles. 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.320 I had a little girl, and that little girl is 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:51.320 in her forties now. 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.920 I never got to raise her. 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.000 The baby's aunt on her father's side took custody. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.720 I said, when she gets old enough to call you anything, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.800 let her call you mom, because my mother died when 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.199 I was three, and when I asked my aunt about 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.200 five years old, could I call her mommy? 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.679 She said no, and that hurt me. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.520 And I never wanted my daughter to feel like I 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.600 felt when I was denied calling somebody mom. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.399 Eventually, Mitchie was able to attend therapy in prison. She 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.880 says that she spoke out loud for the first time 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.399 with other women about the abuse she had endured, about 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.360 the shame that she carried so deep inside of her, 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.080 about the terrible thing that she was a part of, 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.199 just so she could feel valued by a man she 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:41.960 didn't even know. 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:47.600 Loathed myself for what I did. I am a person 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:52.080 of embarrassment. I am a person of regret. I am 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:56.440 a person of negligence. I am a person of bad, 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.159 but I am also a person of good. Today I 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.359 am a person of good. You know, my life is 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.000 worse up to now it wasn't before. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:09.720 What is worth up to now? 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.959 Mitchie says she has now been sober for over thirty 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.320 years in prison, She says she made it her mission 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:30.960 to help other women do the same. Mitchie's story is 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.680 rife with trauma, but as she tells us. It's not 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.560 so different from the experiences of many of the women 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.120 she met in prison. A recent study by the Council 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.800 of Criminal Justice estimates that about seventy percent of incarcerated 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.879 women report being victims of abuse or sexual assault in 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.800 their childhood. Women in prison also consistently report higher rates 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.600 of mental health issues and addiction. All of these factors 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.360 raised the likelihood that these women will have more severe 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:07.119 health issues, especially as they get older. People who study 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.120 access to healthcare in prison say that institutions are not 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.280 prepared to address complex healthcare needs like these. Mitchie says 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.359 her experience with the healthcare system was basically nonexistent. 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:25.080 You mean the care that health give you or your 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.280 own health is to care for because there is no healthcare. 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.040 You know, the people who come to play doctor on us. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.439 Mitchie says that as she got older, she began to 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.520 lose friends one by one, some to cancer and others 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.200 to various other illnesses. It was from these women that 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.600 she learned to take meticulous care of herself and to 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.760 note any changes in her body. 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.159 This one day, I get in the shower and I 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.080 feel is not and I said, oh, that cad to 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.440 come overnight let me jump on this is it now? 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:57.639 What is inside of me? 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.760 Mitchie says she put in a request a visit in 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.080 the prison infirmary. She saved up for money for the 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.840 five dollars cope. Yes, incarcerated people also have a cope. 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.560 Paid my five dollars. I said, look a not just 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.560 popped up on me overnight. I need a check for cancer. 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.520 So it took them like a month to put me 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.439 on the list for ultrasound. They said it was fine 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.480 that I was on a stage too. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.639 But Mitchie didn't trust the results. She wanted to attack 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.919 cancer as hard as possible. She wanted to live, so 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.480 she insisted on another opinion. She wanted to see a 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:36.840 doctor at a hospital. 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.639 They finally came back a month later and took me 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:45.480 out to see the on colleges. He did his own 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.399 and half an hour later he came back and he said, 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.880 miss Scott, and he sat down and said yeah. 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:52.760 He said, I'm sorry to. 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.719 Tell you have breast cancer. 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:03.560 She began chemotherapy. Because Michi was not terminal, she couldn't 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:08.680 apply for compassionate release, but Michi could apply for something 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:13.680 called commutation. That's a process that could potentially reduce her 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.000 life sentence and allow her to be released from prison. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.800 Michi had tried once to apply but had been denied. 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.679 She decided to try again with the support of the 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:29.320 Abolitionist Law Center, who also represented Frank Cross. Michi says 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.040 that many people wrote letters of support, including some within 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.480 the prison administration. Supporters on the outside made calls and 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.040 wrote letters to the governor and the Board of Parole 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:45.639 asking for her release. By then, Leroy Saxton, the actual shooter, 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:50.080 was already free. He was resentenced and released from prison 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:54.879 years prior when laws governing juvenile life sentences were amended, 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:59.840 and yet Michi, who received a life sentence for murder 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:05.720 despite not killing anyone herself, was still in prison. Supporters 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.520 asked the state to consider the fifty years she spent inside, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.960 her rehabilitation and her illness. 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.960 And I used the rest of that time in Muncie 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.080 fighting breast cancer to the point where I said, just 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.119 take the other one too. I don't want either one 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.200 of them because I don't ever want to go through 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.720 what I went through trying to get rid of breast cancer. 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.439 Eventually, she had a double mis stectomy. 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.080 So now I don't have any breast but I don't 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.919 want cancer coming up with me through the breasts, you know, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.119 So if it comes again, it's going to have to 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:37.320 come back somewhere else. 0:22:41.400 --> 0:23:10.280 We'll be right back, and we're back. Senior producer Juliata 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:11.879 Martinelli continues from here. 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:18.240 Michi says undergoing chemotherapy and a double mistectomy was difficult 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.480 and painful. She made a point of speaking to the 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.080 younger women and passing on the wisdom that she had received. 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:27.760 And I tell the women, I said, you got to 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.000 speak up for yourself. Tell them you want more than 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.520 a Maym gram. You wanted three D because you're resident. 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:34.399 Don't let them tell. 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:35.920 You that you can't have And if they do tell 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:36.200 you that. 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:36.639 Let me know. 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:41.520 While we're recording our interview, Michi receives a call from prison. 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.440 This call is subject to recording and monitory. 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.560 It's her friend Terry calling to check up on her. 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:52.320 Michi and Terry were cellmates like thirty years ago, but 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:54.199 they're still really close friends. 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.560 She has been such a great fund to me and 0:23:57.600 --> 0:23:59.760 it has been a blessing in to have her in 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:00.720 mind corner and. 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.040 To be herves Mitchi asked Terry if she would be 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.400 willing to talk to us and tell us about her 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:08.480 own struggles with prison healthcare. 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:12.840 Well, I've had seven surgeryes in fifteen years, so between 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.440 my carpo tunnel, my hysterectomy, my foot surgery, my two 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.000 back surgery, it's been rough. 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:23.800 Terry says. It's difficult to get a diagnosis, let alone treatment. 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:27.320 But fortunately for me, I have a very strong support 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.760 system and family, so when something is wrong, I can 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.439 voice it that it will do research for me, and 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:35.760 then I go into the doctor's clinical to sit call 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:37.720 and say, okay, now this is what I know what 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.280 you're going to do. So I think that has made 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.399