1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this and Samantha and welcome to stuff I Never 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: told you, a production of iHeart Radio. 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: And welcome to today's activists around the world. And today 4 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: we're talking about an icon and the feminist anti fascist 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: movement and research. She's a professor, an advocate, writer, leader, 6 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: and so much more. We are talking about Veronica Gago. 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 2: And Gago is a published author and professor of social 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: science focusing on feminism and overall governmental policies and economy. 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: So she's a professor for the Faculty of Social Science 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 2: at the University of Buenos Aires and the National University 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: of San Martin. Yes, this is also going to be 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 2: a test into my high school Spanish apologies and advance, 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: but here we go. So in addition to her research 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 2: and published works, which she has several, she also has 15 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: been an active member and co founder of the ni 16 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 2: Unamentos movement or not One More in English, which hosted 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: strikes throughout Argentina to protest the sexist and inhumane treatment 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: of women in the country and anti abortion laws. They 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: were part of that green movement, and we've talked about 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: we praised and we wish for our own. But all 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: of that to say she was one of the big 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: centers and focuses of that. She grew up in Argentina 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 2: during a time that caused a lot of financial and 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 2: economic crisis in the country, so it's not surprising to 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: know that her family were active within political discourse and 26 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,559 Speaker 2: this kind of like pushed her into activism as well, 27 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: and she has put it into practice the different types 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: of activism that pushed Argentina to step forward in their 29 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: feminist movement. She is a force, and I will say 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: after I was reading it all about her, there's so 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: much information, of course, because she is a professional writer 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: a researcher, that we couldn't focus on everything. So we 33 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: were giving tidbits here and there, include some of the 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: books that she has written. She has had many lectures, 35 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 2: she is on YouTube, she's on different podcasts. We probably 36 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 2: should have her on. I feel like that about many 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: of our activists, but just so you know, we're just 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: kind of dwindling it down to our fifteen minutes or 39 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: less episode in this one. So apologies if I miss 40 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: something that you think is important, and if you do, 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,839 Speaker 2: let me know, because I know, again she's an icon 42 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: in this community. So here's a bit more about her. 43 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 2: Organization ni Una Menals from her article titled violence of 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: Feminist struggles against victimization to set fear on fire quote 45 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: the nie Una Menals not one woman less movement emerged 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: in response to the multiple and specific forms of violence 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: faced by women, lesbian's, transtravistis and non binary people by 48 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: occupying the streets at a mass scale in Argentina and Abiyayella. 49 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: More broadly, the question of violence has escaped from its 50 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: enclosure under the concept of domestic violence and the mode 51 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: of its domestication through the response attempted by institutions, NGOs 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: and philanthropic and paternalistic forms of management. So she has 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: really dug deep into the connections of the multifaceted ways 54 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,279 Speaker 2: of striking against violence or protesting against violence and violations 55 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: against the marginalized communities. She talks about using these tactics 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: as a way of radicalizing a movement, not allowing for 57 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: a single prong strategy, but more of a large scale response. 58 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: So I think something is really important that we should 59 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: be learning more about because we don't do this well. 60 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: We don't do this well in the US, I think. 61 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: But in another article published for the Journal of Latin 62 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: American Geography for the University of Texas Press. She writes, 63 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: Argentina's massive, popular and radical feminist movement has revitalized political 64 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: struggles in the country, building a transversal movement capable of 65 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: challenging multiple forms of violence that have differential impacts on 66 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: women and feminized bodies. It has done so by opening 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: up new forms of knowing and inventing new political tactics, 68 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: by weaving together different no hows and knowledges based on 69 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: multiple sus of heterogeneous concrete bodies and experience. Writing from 70 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: this feminist movement and situated within the experience of feminist strike, 71 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: we know how the strike as the process calls into 72 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: question hegemonic forms of knowing and assumptions about the subject 73 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: of that knowing through embodied an embedded process of investigation 74 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: and knowledge creation that produce new subjects, new concepts, and 75 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: new internationalists and plorer national alliances. That's a lot, but 76 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: she does talk about the fact that it opens up 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: so many things. Essentially, it brings in new ways of protests, 78 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: of counter protests, of tactics of political movements, and how 79 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: it does revitalize and revolutionizes something that has been needed 80 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: for so long. And something that's been used for so long, 81 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: go back and read our book about the different movements 82 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: and protests throughout the years. And she continues with a practical, 83 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: detailed approach, saying the feminist strike as an ongoing, evolving 84 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 2: practice involves assemblies and meetings, work stoppages and blockades, encounters 85 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: between women and other forms of being together, and practices 86 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: of care and of invention among women. As such, the 87 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: strike involves diverse forms of collective and embodied knowledge production 88 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: that challenge clear divisions between scholars and activists. Not knowledge 89 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 2: in the abstract. This feminists know how based on situated 90 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: knowledge practices in concrete territories and bodies, implies other ways 91 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: of knowing, valuing the knowing bodies, sensibilities and intuitions. This 92 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: knowing from the body challenges the colonial, capitalist, patriarchal unconscious 93 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: by questioning pre established identities and reactionary fears and creating 94 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: new forms of desire and subjectivities. Rivera Koshinkanki also speaks 95 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: of the importance of the body of weaving together manual 96 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: tasks with intellectual ones, thinking with the hands, heart and 97 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 2: brain at the same time in everyday collective practices. As 98 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 2: an important feature of these new waves of movements. And 99 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 2: I know we've talked about this before with previous people 100 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: who were starting movements protests, about how that is so important, 101 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: about being able to do it intellectually and with passion. Oh, 102 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: this is like to do know how? Yeah, she has 103 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 2: three different books about y'all. Within these published articles, she 104 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: talks about roles these actions play, political tactic, and research methodology, 105 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: and how those processes have to be large picture, including 106 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: the entirety of the groups affected, so we have to 107 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: understand intersectionality. But with that she digs deep into areas 108 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 2: where it's characterized as feminized economy, meaning that the area 109 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 2: is made up and largely ran by women, migrants, and 110 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: other marginalized communities, but they are not given equity or equality. 111 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: So feminized economy, I feel like that needs to be 112 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: a phrase that we hear more often, so this would 113 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: continue in her later works with the question of the 114 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: backlash against women. From a Georgetown University's look into Gogo's book, 115 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: Britique Ascan writes this of Gogo's book, Feminist International, a 116 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: work of political analysis and self reflection, it was written 117 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: from within the massive feminist mobilizations that swept Latin America 118 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: from twenty seventeen onwards. Gago presents the seemingly inexorable rise 119 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: of gender violence across the continent as a conservative backlash 120 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: led by disenfranchised men against the appearance of women in 121 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: the workplace, specifically in the informal sector, as in the 122 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: Mechilidores and Quidad Warrez and other towns along the US 123 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: Mexico border. And on the broader scope, Gago addresses the 124 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: already existence of a large network of feminist movements. She writes, 125 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: it is an internationalism that requires alliance in every possible place, 126 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: with strawberry picking day laborers, Morocco women working during harvest 127 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: times in Andalusia and the peasant unions and activist collectives 128 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: of the towns and cities, Between women laid off from 129 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: textile factories and students fighting against education cuts, Between indigenous 130 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: women in rebellion and community organizers in each neighborhood of 131 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: the urban peripheries. So again, this kind of is that 132 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: larger question of the pushback versus the entire entity of 133 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: those marginalized and those who were oppressed, And how big 134 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: of a part that does play in movements like these, 135 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: and with that talking about one of the biggest forces 136 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: of oppression on women around the world, debt and finances, 137 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: which we talked about before, which she expands upon in 138 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: her latest book, A Feminist Reading of Debt, which she 139 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: co wrote with Lucy Cavillerro. A bit more from Asakan's article, 140 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: they write she focuses on how the patriarchal financial APPARATUSUS 141 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: renew the colonial pact in the present, combining it with 142 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 2: forms of domination and exploitation. In her argument, the patriarchal 143 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 2: financial apparatus are revealed to be fundamental for understanding the 144 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: counterinsurgent dimension of war against women and feminized bodies. This 145 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: requires that feminism be international too. Yeah, yeah, Like I know, 146 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 2: there are so many conversations where we talked about how 147 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: feminism is so weaponized and so looked down upon. But 148 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,359 Speaker 2: this type of conversation is why that word is so important, 149 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,479 Speaker 2: so important. Obviously, when you have a feminist giant like Gotcks, 150 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: we're only skimming the vast amount of knowledge and research 151 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: that Gogoes has laid out. But one thing that did 152 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: catch my eye was her response to the US's Roe 153 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: v Wade overturning, and she was quick to speak up 154 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: about the importance of mobilization. So she actually wrote this 155 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: for The Guardian, and it's titled What Latin American feminists 156 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: can teach American Women about the Abortion Fight. She writes, 157 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: an important element for understanding the massiveness of these mobilizations 158 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: was precisely the way in which the struggle for abortion 159 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: was woven together with other feminist struggles. This allowed for 160 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 2: cognitively and politically connecting the different forms of violence against 161 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: women and feminized bodies as systemic violence. The violence of 162 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: often deadly and costly, clandestine abortion was thus connected to 163 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: domestic violence, sexual harassment, and the gender pay gap in 164 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: the workplace, and to the murders of female environment and 165 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: indigenous activists in the rural areas. In turn, this enabled 166 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: constructing the demand of abortion in terms that go beyond 167 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: merely individual right, challenging the conception of the body as 168 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: private property. The green Tide flooded spaces everywhere, including schools, slums, 169 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: union squares, and soup kitchens. Through this transversality, the body 170 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: that had been put up for debate took on a 171 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 2: collective and class dimension. This occurred because discussion about the 172 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: clandestine condition of abortion directly referred to the costs that 173 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 2: make it differentially risky according to one's social and economic position. 174 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: Those who were most harmed by the criminalization of abortion 175 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: were the women and people with the capacity to just 176 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: state with the fewest economic resources, those who could not 177 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: pay for safe abortions. Therefore, the right to abortion was 178 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: considered inseparable from the demand that it be guaranteed in 179 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: the public healthcare system. In turn, the demand for a 180 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: comprehensive sexual education in the public education that's curriculum allow 181 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: for deepening debates about sexualities, corporalities, relationships, and effects, displacing 182 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: the question in a radical way. So there was a lot. 183 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 2: It was very obviously, very thorough, But I feel like 184 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: there's so much in this conversation we don't we haven't 185 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: talked enough about what it looks like to come together today. 186 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: I don't get me wrong. There's a lot of protests, 187 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: and we know there's a lot of protests happening in 188 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: LA and all over the country today that we're not 189 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: seeing news about because of course they want to hide that. 190 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: And we love that and we want to talk more 191 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: about it. But this is the understanding of what it 192 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: looks like, what it's a mass movement with the understanding 193 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 2: that this is intersectional. It has to be intersectional for 194 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 2: it to be mobilized and to actually open up into 195 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: an entire national movement, it has to be intersectional. So 196 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: I found her works to be really fascinating, and I 197 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 2: think we have to dig more into her words for sure. 198 00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely, and listeners. If you have any thoughts 199 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: on any of this or what works we should delve 200 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: into next of what she has done, please let us know. 201 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at Stuffwenevertold You dot com. 202 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue Skype, Momstup podcast, or 203 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You. 204 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: We're us on YouTube and we have a book you 205 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always, 206 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: Tarry super Duce, Christina or executive producer My and your 207 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: contributor Joey. Thank you and I'm sorry and thanks to 208 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is picture 209 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: of my Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, 210 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 211 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.