1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,920
Speaker 1: with you. Let me tell you about Roger Stron. His

4
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,120
Speaker 1: career has been spent teaching in schools, colleges and universities,

5
00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,360
Speaker 1: culminating and is holding the post of Reader in Education

6
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: at the University of Reading in the United Kingdom. Specializes

7
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,279
Speaker 1: in the philosophy of education. He gained an m a

8
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: Degree and a PhD in that subject. Together with his

9
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: m a and classics, his university research has led to

10
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,239
Speaker 1: the writing and editing of many books and articles on

11
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,479
Speaker 1: issues in education, philosophy and ethics, and he is very

12
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,000
Speaker 1: active member of a number of societies and organizations concerned

13
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 1: with psychical and spiritual matters. Roger, welcome to the program,

14
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,879
Speaker 1: looking forward to chatting with you, and great job on

15
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,960
Speaker 1: the medium and the minister. Thank you. I'm not sure

16
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:57,400
Speaker 1: how did you get interested in the afterlife? Good question. Well,

17
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 1: I've always been interested in It's always puzzled me why

18
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 1: more people aren't interested in it to be such an

19
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,040
Speaker 1: important question. You know. The fact is, whether we like

20
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,320
Speaker 1: it or not, we're all going to die. I'm sorry

21
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,120
Speaker 1: to have to tell you that, but it's true. Oh

22
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:19,119
Speaker 1: my gosh, you told me that we all have to die,

23
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,560
Speaker 1: and you know it's going to happen. So what can

24
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 1: we do about that? Do we just push it under

25
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: the carpet. Do we say, well, okay, and I can't

26
00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 1: know anything about that, let's not bother about it. Or

27
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,400
Speaker 1: do we actually ask oursels what we think might do

28
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,680
Speaker 1: you just happen when we do die? Because there was

29
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 1: really only two possible options. Either he's finished, it's the end.

30
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 1: You know, we are just a cocktail of chemicals and

31
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: atoms which is going to disintegrate and that's the end

32
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 1: of it. Or there might just be something more to

33
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 1: it than that. We might just might be just be

34
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 1: a spiritual dimension here to us of our lives. And

35
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: which of those two options we think is more reasonable

36
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,919
Speaker 1: is going to affect us. It's going to affect our

37
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 1: whole view of the world. It's going to affect how

38
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: we see ourselves, how is the other people, It's going

39
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 1: to affect how we behave So it seems to me

40
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,960
Speaker 1: an extraordinary important question just to push it under the

41
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 1: carpet and say, well, I'm not going to think about

42
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 1: that isn't really the most rational thing we can do.

43
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: Our ancients seem, Roger to have had a better understanding

44
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 1: of the death process. I mean, there are a couple

45
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,519
Speaker 1: old works, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Tibetan

46
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 1: Book of the Dead. They seem to have a better

47
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 1: handle on death than we didn't. Do you sense that, yes, definitely,

48
00:02:54,080 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 1: Certainly this modern aversion to talking and thinking about death, which,

49
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 1: as you say, certainly hasn't always been the case. I mean,

50
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 1: all all spiritual all the ancient spiritual traditions believe it,

51
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: believed in some form of life after death. That they've

52
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: took slightly different forms, but they all believe it. They

53
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 1: all believed it, and that as well as not now,

54
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 1: rather i'd disappeared. I mean, some people will say, yes,

55
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,160
Speaker 1: I'm religious, I believe in life after death. A lot

56
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 1: of people will say, no, I'm not religious. I'm not

57
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,760
Speaker 1: interested in any of that. In fact, that's just mentioned

58
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: a very brief story, I might The idea for this

59
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: book first came to me when I was doing a

60
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 1: book signy at a store for a previous book about

61
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 1: survival life after death, and one shopper came up to me,

62
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: looked at one, look at the book, said I'm a Christian,

63
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in any of that, and rushed straight

64
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 1: out of the store. You know, she was afraid, who's

65
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 1: going to get polluted? I suppose by looking at evening

66
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 1: And that made me think there was something funny going

67
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: on here. You know, can't you be religion? You have

68
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,480
Speaker 1: to be religious whatever that means, to believe in life

69
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 1: after death. You know, there's never there haven't been this

70
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,840
Speaker 1: aversion to thinking about it. It's been part of people's

71
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,119
Speaker 1: religious outlook and wider than that, that whole outlook on life.

72
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 1: And there seems to be a distinctive difference between religion

73
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: and spirituality. People are asked all the time, Roger that

74
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,279
Speaker 1: are you religious or are you spiritual? It's really one

75
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: and the same, I think, but one is a little

76
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: more organized than the other one. Where someone who's spiritual

77
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 1: wants to believe in God. Someone's who's religious beliefs in God.

78
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 1: But it all depends on whether you go to church

79
00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 1: or not. I think exactly exactly, Yeah, that that's dead right.

80
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,840
Speaker 1: It's very much a question of language. I mean, as

81
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 1: you said earlier, either I'm a philosopher and a philosophers

82
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,719
Speaker 1: very keen or language. And it's this word religious, being

83
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,359
Speaker 1: religious sometimes that it gets in the way I think

84
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 1: very often nowadays are being religious to say you're religious,

85
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,719
Speaker 1: that seems to suggest that you belong to a particular church,

86
00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: an institutional church. You perhaps regularly attend that church, you

87
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,360
Speaker 1: participate in its practices, is ritual, you accept its doctorates.

88
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: And that's what to many people being religious seems to mean.

89
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,159
Speaker 1: But of course it needn't mean that. I mean, it

90
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 1: can be, as you say, a much broader, a much

91
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,360
Speaker 1: broader things on that. And as you say that this

92
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 1: emphasis nowadays on being spiritual, well I think spiritual is

93
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: a bit of a difficult word to get a handle

94
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: on as well. But even so, it doesn't tie you

95
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:11,359
Speaker 1: into a particular set of doctrine teachings, if you like,

96
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: in the same way that being religious seems to do.

97
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 1: Do you think dying is much like sleeping in that

98
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,039
Speaker 1: when you go to sleep, if you don't recall your dreams,

99
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: you've got eight hours of voidness and darkness, and then

100
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 1: you wake up and you know you had no idea

101
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 1: what happened in those eight hours other than you were

102
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,560
Speaker 1: out of it. But if you dream, it seems like

103
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: that life continues even in the dream state, and you

104
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,880
Speaker 1: wake up and remember, Wow, what a dream that was

105
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: or something. Do you think the afterlife is a little

106
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 1: like a dream where it just kind of continues, Yes,

107
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: I do. I think the last similarities. I don't know

108
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 1: whether we're going to talk about what it might be

109
00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,520
Speaker 1: like later on that. Of course, there's been a lot

110
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: of research done on what the afterlife might possibly be like,

111
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,560
Speaker 1: and certainly that research especially via chap called Krookle, Robert Crookle,

112
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 1: who did some groundbreaking work on this. He's a scientist.

113
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: He wrote on books on astral projection too, didn't he

114
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 1: that's right? Yeah, Well, his work I think very much underrated.

115
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 1: Very few people know about it except people like you

116
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 1: and me. He did some extraordinary work on this. I

117
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 1: mean he's basically as a scientist. He was a top scientist.

118
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: He was the world authority on fossil fuels and very

119
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,200
Speaker 1: interestingly before he decided to get interested in this question.

120
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 1: And his method was to gather together reports from all

121
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,000
Speaker 1: sorts of different sources that might be mediums, it might

122
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: be near get experiences out of the body, experiences, mystical

123
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 1: experiences and see what the similarities weren't. He wouldn't concerned

124
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 1: with testing each individual one to see if it was

125
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: reasonable or not. He just put them all together. I

126
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: got this huge mountain of data and said, well, what

127
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 1: are the similarities here? What are the dissimilarities? And he found,

128
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:27,400
Speaker 1: as you suggected just now, that the immediate stages of death,

129
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: if you want to call it, that is very much

130
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,800
Speaker 1: like a dream. We don't alway, not everybody knows they die.

131
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,319
Speaker 1: It may be just a continuation. For most people. He

132
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,959
Speaker 1: thought there was a sort of period of rest who

133
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: sort of recover a bit from the from the trauma

134
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 1: of dying, and that would last for a different length,

135
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: with periods for different different people. For example, interestingly the

136
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 1: very elderly or people who've been very sick, they seemed

137
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 1: to rest for a longer period. If you were in

138
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,079
Speaker 1: your prime of life, when you were when you died,

139
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 1: then it was a much more sudden, instant sort of

140
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 1: click of the click of the click of the thumber experience.

141
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 1: You were alive one minute, you were in the later life,

142
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 1: in the next life, in the next moment. That this

143
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 1: first experience, the first experience, the after life was dream

144
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 1: like in his view, because in a sense, you could

145
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,199
Speaker 1: make what you wanted of it. Um. It was an

146
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 1: element of the first stages of the after life, which

147
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,959
Speaker 1: you're constructed by our mind. Our mind hadn't died. Our

148
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,800
Speaker 1: body might have died, but our mind hasn't died, and

149
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 1: so in that first um period after death, we were

150
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 1: to to sort of ease the transition. We were allowed

151
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 1: or helped to create a sort of world that we

152
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: were happy with. So you get the lots of stories

153
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:18,560
Speaker 1: of people finding a house prepared for them just like

154
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 1: they dreamed, right, Yeah, that's right, yeah, leads. It's very

155
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,439
Speaker 1: strange and rather funny examples of people as we want

156
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 1: to carry on doing what they've been doing before. I had,

157
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 1: for example, one lovely examples or somebody who says he

158
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,120
Speaker 1: was a very keen golfer and he says, oh, yeah,

159
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm still play golf here if I want to, although

160
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't seem to want to do it quite so often,

161
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, So we can carry on doing the things

162
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: in the way that we want to do for a

163
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 1: time just to sort of get us use to this

164
00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 1: new form of living. Now. In your particular case, what

165
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,480
Speaker 1: have you concluded about the afterlife, Well, personally, what I

166
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 1: concluded as well, firstly that it definitely exists. You know,

167
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: I personally have no doubt about that. Did you always

168
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 1: believe that? I understand why some people, a lot of

169
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: people and don't want to believe in it. But it

170
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,000
Speaker 1: seems to be the evidence. And you may hear me

171
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: mention that word evidence quite a bit because I think

172
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,480
Speaker 1: evidence here is very very important. Evidence isn't proof, it's

173
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent, doesn't give us a hundred percent certainty.

174
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: But for everything, every important question we have to make

175
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 1: up our minds about, we need evidence, and I think

176
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 1: the evidence comes from different sources. We've already talked about

177
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: religious traditions, that's one source. Psychic research is another source.

178
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,040
Speaker 1: And if you put all this together, it makes a

179
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 1: very very very powerful case, I think. So. I do

180
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,680
Speaker 1: think there's a very strong set of reasons, amount of

181
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 1: evidence why we should think that there is an effort afterlife.

182
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,120
Speaker 1: What it's like is more difficult. I mean, I think

183
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: there are indications as as Robert Crickle found and lots

184
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 1: of other people have found. There have been lots and

185
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: lots of reports of what people who are apparently dead

186
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,439
Speaker 1: are experiencing. And I think the one general point which

187
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 1: comes out is that it's very much a developmental process.

188
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 1: It's staged by stage, and it's going to go on

189
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 1: for a very very long time. If we can talk

190
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,360
Speaker 1: about time, there's probably a different sort of time. But yeah,

191
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,959
Speaker 1: it's going to be a developmental process, and I think

192
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 1: there's going to be a process of growth as well.

193
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 1: Growth and development. We're not going to just stay static.

194
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: This is one of the objections I've always had about

195
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 1: against the more orthodox religious views. You know, we die

196
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 1: and that's it. You know, that's the end of were

197
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 1: taken into God's care and if we're lucky, if we're not,

198
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 1: we've sent somewhere else and that's our fate forever for eternality. Well,

199
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: that's not the way his life works. In life itself,

200
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:32,400
Speaker 1: we are constantly growing, change in developing. So it seems

201
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,640
Speaker 1: to be quite sensible to think that that's what's going

202
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 1: to happen in an afterlife. We're going to change, we're

203
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 1: going to develop, We're going to go through different modes

204
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 1: of consciousness, if you want to put it that way.

205
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,559
Speaker 1: But what exactly those are I wouldn't be too dogmatically.

206
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get all dogmatic about when people ask me,

207
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,560
Speaker 1: Roger if I believe in the afterlife, and I of

208
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 1: course tell them yes. I had my doubts, so I

209
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,319
Speaker 1: was to tell him my prior guests. Before you came on,

210
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,560
Speaker 1: I was at a funeral and I had some doubts

211
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: whether it exists or not, just by looking at the

212
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,959
Speaker 1: stark dead body. But then I realized it does exist,

213
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,840
Speaker 1: because it was a horrible feeling thinking it doesn't. But

214
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 1: when people ask me about the afterlife and why do

215
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 1: I believe it, my answer to them is, we can't

216
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,040
Speaker 1: even explain how the universe started. You know, I have

217
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,600
Speaker 1: done countless programs on the Big Bang theory and things

218
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 1: like that, and I still can't get age a logical

219
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 1: answer from anybody because nobody knows. And when you add

220
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,800
Speaker 1: in the afterlife to it, you have to say the

221
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,520
Speaker 1: same thing. Nobody really knows, other than we have more

222
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 1: evidence I think of the afterlife than we do of

223
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 1: the starting of the universe, because so many people have

224
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 1: witnessed spirits and ghosts and all these They're not all

225
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 1: making it up, are they. That's right, that's right. Gain

226
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: As a philosopher, you know, we can't. We don't know

227
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 1: anything I think about anything. We can't back to language

228
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 1: again here, and we can't know for sure. If by

229
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 1: that we mean one hundred percent guaranteed certainty. We haven't

230
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 1: got that about anything. Actually, I mean to take a

231
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 1: silly example. I'm sitting here with a phone to my

232
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 1: ear thinking I'm talking to you or thousands of miles away.

233
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,760
Speaker 1: I think I know that, I'm pretty certain of I'm

234
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 1: doing that, but I might be dreaming, you know, I

235
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 1: might be hallucinating. As always that very small chance that

236
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,600
Speaker 1: what we think we're sure about isn't actually the case.

237
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: We can be ninety nine sure of a lot of things,

238
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: and it's sensible, probably can do that, but we can

239
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,360
Speaker 1: never have that total certainty. I don't think about anything,

240
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: even what scientists tell us is true, made to and

241
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 1: ask in the future to be otherwise. With Roger Stron

242
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about his work, The Medium and the Minister.

243
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 1: Roger tell me about the title, which is fascinating. The

244
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: medium and the Minister. Yeah, right, we obviously it had

245
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: to sound good, you know, so we've got the two ms.

246
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 1: So I will commit. I'll admit to that. But yeah,

247
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: it seemed to me to sum up these two or

248
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 1: two the main approaches to the possible approaches to thinking

249
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:36,640
Speaker 1: about the afterlife, the psychic psychical approach, which is represented

250
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 1: to some extent, not entirely, but to some extent by mediumship.

251
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 1: The medium. The medium is a fascinating mediumship is a

252
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 1: fascinating area, and it is one way of possibly getting

253
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: information about an afterlife and getting communication about that. So

254
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 1: that's one, as it were, one avenue, one road of

255
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: approach to this question. The minister of the religious minister

256
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 1: I had to use the word like minister to get

257
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 1: get get a title that sounded good that I wanted

258
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 1: to compare contrast put together the psychical and the religious.

259
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 1: Those are the two main approaches I think to tackling

260
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,920
Speaker 1: this question, and actually quite a bit of a book

261
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: is looking at the conflict something that has it taken

262
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 1: place between those two. There's been a lot of agro,

263
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 1: a of a lot of blood spilt actually between the

264
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,399
Speaker 1: medium of the psychic researcher and religion, the churches in

265
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 1: particular the Western Church, and that that whole story about

266
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 1: that conflict is fascinating actually because it brings up and

267
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,280
Speaker 1: the key points where um that our at issue here

268
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: when we're talking about and thinking about the after lask

269
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 1: from whether we might believe in it. Listen to more

270
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast a M. Every week night at one

271
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 1: a m. Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast a

272
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 1: m dot com for more