Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that Christmas Crab could be
Speaker 1: the next big thing. Yeah, I mean it's already the
Speaker 1: big thing in my heart right now. I mean there's
Speaker 1: the Christmas Island crabs and they all go crabbing around,
Speaker 1: So why not Christmas Crab. I appreciate you're trying to
Speaker 1: ground it in any kind of reality. I didn't need
Speaker 1: that at all. You know, when we have all these
Speaker 1: religions and we disagree on them sometimes, but I think
Speaker 1: we could all agree on life. Like a gift crab. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, just imagining its claw, like, removing its hat
Speaker 1: and salutation, that's all I need. Greetings, I am the
Speaker 1: Christmas crab. Let me click at you. Yeah, you really
Speaker 1: can snip gift wrapping really easily with a little claws.
Speaker 1: My god, can you imagine the ribbon work a Christmas crab,
Speaker 1: such like getting that that twirl that spiral spirals. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I tried to do that, and my body refuses to
Speaker 1: learn how to do it. So thankfully the Christmas crab. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been recording all of this. I might leave it.
Speaker 1: I don't mind a stupid bit. Why not, why not?
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's let's pretend um okay, and then in
Speaker 1: shore music Now great, great, Welcome to Creature feature production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. I'm your host of Many Parasites,
Speaker 1: Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, and today
Speaker 1: on the show Pick Your Poison. There are lots of
Speaker 1: different things we know we should not put in our mouth,
Speaker 1: like cyanide, parasites, a styrofoam coffee cup you got out
Speaker 1: of the trash, But some animals have found a way
Speaker 1: to expand their culinary tastes or even benefit from things
Speaker 1: that would make a human restaurant shut down. In the
Speaker 1: Chef's Built to Prison is cover this in more as
Speaker 1: we answered the age old question why our scientists so
Speaker 1: mean to larvae? Joining me today is writer, director, co
Speaker 1: host of One Upsmanship on this here I Heart Radio Network,
Speaker 1: and also friend of the pod, Adam Canzer. Friend. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me so much. Yeah, friend is
Speaker 1: my favorite of those types. Yeah, you know that's the
Speaker 1: one friend excited about that? Joining Thank you, That's all
Speaker 1: I needed. Yeah, and I'm thrilled a back. I love
Speaker 1: that you picked this topic for me because you know,
Speaker 1: look behind the curtain, Katie asked me, is there any
Speaker 1: topic you'd like to explore, and I was like, how
Speaker 1: could I ever suggest the topic that be better than
Speaker 1: what you picked? This is so much better than anything
Speaker 1: I could have thought of. So I'm so excited about it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Today we are actually talking about animals
Speaker 1: who do eat garbage, poison, and other things that should
Speaker 1: not be good for them, but somehow they manage, which
Speaker 1: I think is inspirational. H Yeah, I think that, especially
Speaker 1: around this holiday season, there's a lot of like shaming around,
Speaker 1: like oh, no, it's the holidays, I'm going to eat
Speaker 1: a lot of garbage and then feel bad about it.
Speaker 1: I feel like you should just commit if you're going
Speaker 1: to eat something that's like no, I really shouldn't. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you know what, I should eat this? This is good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: order that second Baja blast, put that in your body,
Speaker 1: just go all the way. It's the holidays. Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, unless you have some direct orders
Speaker 1: from your doctor not to it's like, um, if you
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I'm eating pie, I should feel bad.
Speaker 1: It's like no, you once you've committed to eating the pie,
Speaker 1: um enjoy it. Yeah. The real doctor here is animals
Speaker 1: and what they're doing. Yeah, let's listen to their prescription doctor.
Speaker 1: Animals say, eat your own babies. Is that most of
Speaker 1: what we're gonna be eating today? No? No, no, babies aren't.
Speaker 1: Are But what are you saying at them? What? What
Speaker 1: am I saying? You're right? Dare you? Absolutely? Dare you?
Speaker 1: I'm no longer a friend? Unfriended? Um? No, So we're
Speaker 1: actually first going to talk about cyanide cyanide um, it's
Speaker 1: something you don't generally want to consume. That's what I've heard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's what I know about it so far. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It blocks your cells from being able to use oxygen
Speaker 1: molecules by binding two enzymes and stop cell metabolism, which
Speaker 1: is bad for the cell. It kills the cell. And
Speaker 1: then also you Yeah, sounds bad. Doesn't sound good? It's bad?
Speaker 1: But does it? Does it also taste amazing? Is that
Speaker 1: something I'm gonna learn? It tastes Apparently it has a
Speaker 1: slightly Wait? Is that arsenic? Is? Yeah? Is that arsenic
Speaker 1: that has the almond smell? Or is it siani? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I've heard, I know that factoid. I just
Speaker 1: don't know which one is true, But I've heard that factor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna google it. Um is it our cynic almond smell? Um?
Speaker 1: I bet you cut this out, But if you don't,
Speaker 1: I love that you typed all that in. No, no cyanide,
Speaker 1: I know the FBI is now like ha ha I
Speaker 1: got her. Um so no, No, it is cyanide that
Speaker 1: has a slight sort of almondy smell. Uh. Not that
Speaker 1: almonds are bad for you, but cyanide definitely is. So. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are actually antidotes to cyanide poisoning. They're not foolproof,
Speaker 1: so don't like, you know, try it as a prank.
Speaker 1: But the way that the antidotes work is by being
Speaker 1: able to bind to cyanide. And so by binding to cyanide,
Speaker 1: they prevent the cyanide from binding to the enzymes that
Speaker 1: facilitate the use of oxygen. So like our cells and stuff,
Speaker 1: when you think about cellular biology, it's all kind of
Speaker 1: like lock and key mechanisms are like little like puzzle
Speaker 1: pieces fitting together. It's all these It's like a Rube
Speaker 1: Goldberg machine happening inside your body. Um. And so when
Speaker 1: you have something like cyanide, it like gunks up the
Speaker 1: process attaches to something. It should not be attaching to
Speaker 1: and then prevents it from using oxygen. And then so
Speaker 1: this antidote basically like grabs onto the cyanide and it's like,
Speaker 1: whoa there, buddy, Now you settle down, you're coming with me. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it's a cyanide is bad generally for all animals. Um,
Speaker 1: So how could any animal ever eat cyanide and be okay?
Speaker 1: I guess the preliminary question is why would you want
Speaker 1: to eat cyanide? It's not a thing anyone should you know?
Speaker 1: Plan on? Right? It also is like why that can't
Speaker 1: be the only food there is? Whoever is doing this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's another weird factor. So plants actually often use
Speaker 1: toxins to protect themselves from being eaten by unwanted pests.
Speaker 1: A common toxin used by plants is hydrogen cyanide. For
Speaker 1: the record, hydrogen cyanide has also been used by humans
Speaker 1: and chemical warfare during World War One and World War Two.
Speaker 1: It's been involved in a lot of war crimes. It's
Speaker 1: very extremely nasty stuff. Um. But if you want to
Speaker 1: be able to have open access to like the world's
Speaker 1: most dangerous salad bar where you get like no competition
Speaker 1: from other animals, you would definitely want an immunity to
Speaker 1: that plant toxin. And yeah, of course I'm using the
Speaker 1: term want like in a non literal sense. What's really
Speaker 1: happening is that any evolutionary like accident that allows an
Speaker 1: organism to eat a plant protected by a toxin will
Speaker 1: offer that animal huge advantage because now it has um
Speaker 1: this like relatively uncompetitive like non competitive area niche where
Speaker 1: it can like eat a plant that nothing else is
Speaker 1: trying to eat, and then now it's healthy and can
Speaker 1: pop out a bunch of offspring. So it's like it's
Speaker 1: like the hometown buffet in Santa Monica. Dude, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna eat there, you're the only one eating there. It's
Speaker 1: Golden Corral. Um, Like what's like an off time? Like
Speaker 1: when when would the senior citizens not go to Golden
Speaker 1: Corral anytime after six pm? I guess so right? Like right, so, hey,
Speaker 1: what could possibly and evolve an immunity to cyanide? Well,
Speaker 1: adam of all the animals? What kind of family think
Speaker 1: would do this kind of thing? Okay, so god, what
Speaker 1: would it be? I don't like I wanted to be
Speaker 1: like some kind of like angry re badger some kind
Speaker 1: of really intense badger like it burrows underground, it eats cyanide.
Speaker 1: It's the old Grandpa. It's the old Grandpa of rodents.
Speaker 1: That's what I want. Yeah, in my day, we went up,
Speaker 1: we walked up the hill both ways in the snow.
Speaker 1: We ate cyanide, and we were grateful for it, and
Speaker 1: we were grateful for it. Yeah. Um no, sadly not.
Speaker 1: I wish that were the case as well. But as
Speaker 1: is typical, the answer of what the hell is this
Speaker 1: thing doing, it's arthur pods. Insects. Yeah, certain arthur pods,
Speaker 1: including mites and the larva of certain species of butterflies
Speaker 1: and moths, have developed an immunity to cyanide. Uh. In fact,
Speaker 1: some insects, such as burnet moths, used the ingested cyanide
Speaker 1: as a toxic defense against predators. So they've definitely, yeah,
Speaker 1: they've they've taken this thing. They've made lemonade sign, they've
Speaker 1: taken life. Game. Okay, life gave them cyanide, so they
Speaker 1: made cyanide aid. Yep. Yeah, that's it's like it's like
Speaker 1: they dressed themselves entirely grenades, just like give it your
Speaker 1: best shot, broad Yeah. And the eather grenades, but they
Speaker 1: can don't. Also another suggestion, helpful tip, don't do that either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's if they haven't done it on Jackass, definitely don't
Speaker 1: do it. Like, if they've done it on Jackass, don't
Speaker 1: do it then either. But if they haven't done it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like the It's kind of like in a way,
Speaker 1: Jackass teaches you safety, right because you just don't do
Speaker 1: anyway anything they do or what they don't do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't just stay away from Jackass. Stay away from it.
Speaker 1: So how can they tolerate cyanide? Well, they have an
Speaker 1: enzyme that converts deadly hydrogen cyanide into its non deadly form,
Speaker 1: beta cyano alanine. I'm so glad you do this part
Speaker 1: of the podcast. If I had to read one of
Speaker 1: those if I had to read one of those names immediately,
Speaker 1: I'd be shown the but I'd be shown the podcast
Speaker 1: door and kicked out right there, exposed as someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't know what happens when you convert hydrogen cyanide into
Speaker 1: its non lethal form. That's right. They take my monocle
Speaker 1: away immediately past confiscated. That's right. I think I felt.
Speaker 1: I felt a little Sheldon E. When I said that
Speaker 1: just now, and it felt not great. I liked it,
Speaker 1: but but I liked it in a laughing at it way,
Speaker 1: lapping at me. Yeah, well yeah, okay this time, that's fine,
Speaker 1: that's okay. I'm cool with that. See I'm cool with that.
Speaker 1: Um yeah. So interestingly, the gene that codes for this
Speaker 1: cyanide detoxifying enzyme may not have originated in animals, so
Speaker 1: it appears to have originated in bacteria. Well what the
Speaker 1: heck is going on here? Well, it's just gonna be
Speaker 1: like eating inception. Is this going to be like them?
Speaker 1: Like the not the muss The butterflies eat the bacteria
Speaker 1: which eats the cyanide, and like it keeps them all safe.
Speaker 1: That sounds that sounds cool, But it's even weirder it
Speaker 1: is that they actually have this DNA in their genetic code.
Speaker 1: So like, this is a case of horizontal evolution. So
Speaker 1: vertical evolution is what is what we're all used to.
Speaker 1: It's you know, like your parents pops you out, gives
Speaker 1: you some DNA and you know makes sense. Horizontal evolution
Speaker 1: is when an organism has genes introduced it from something
Speaker 1: like a virus or a bacterium um but it doesn't
Speaker 1: come from the parent. It comes from another organism. So
Speaker 1: like bacteria often have horizontal evolution shin, but animals this
Speaker 1: is actually quite rare. For animals. We don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of horizontal evolution because it requires some weird circumstances
Speaker 1: like a virus, a viruses DNA or a bacteria's DNA
Speaker 1: somehow getting introduced to a cell and then somehow that's
Speaker 1: cell incorporating that into its own DNA. That does sounds
Speaker 1: strange and like vampiric or something. It does, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It's it's a little, it's a little it's a little
Speaker 1: wacky and strange. Um. But yeah, so the speculation based
Speaker 1: on well, it's not quite speculation. There's there's some pretty
Speaker 1: good science behind it where they have tracked back like
Speaker 1: the origin of this uh this genetic code that allows
Speaker 1: them to produce this enzyme two bacteria. Now they don't
Speaker 1: know exactly how this horizontal like when and how like um,
Speaker 1: under what circumstances this happened, but it's kind of interesting that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: these arthropods have stolen this DNA from bacteria to be
Speaker 1: able to um you know, basically eat cyanide and not die.
Speaker 1: It sounds a little like like Fountain of Youthy or
Speaker 1: something like they have like their own uncharted heist going
Speaker 1: on here or something where the answer the arthropods got together,
Speaker 1: like we've got to get this power. It's only stored
Speaker 1: in this one bacteria. You go and they assemble a
Speaker 1: team and there's a montage steal the bacteria. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be oceans is going to cover this ground. Yes, that's right,
Speaker 1: it's just going to the oceans are going to become
Speaker 1: increasingly abstract, where at some point we're just going to
Speaker 1: have sort of like lines stealing like the third dimension. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yes, that's exactly what it's going to be.
Speaker 1: You're just basically watching like a math to storial, but
Speaker 1: it's got that really cool score to it. And it
Speaker 1: turns out that one of them was a line all
Speaker 1: along or whatever. There's always a twist, so right, it's
Speaker 1: like Ocean's fifty is going to be you in like
Speaker 1: a sensory deprivation tank with flashes of light and you
Speaker 1: imagine the movie and then you pay for that. That's
Speaker 1: how it works. Yeah, that sounds like the ultimate heist, right,
Speaker 1: it really does. You've been hiding. That's what they'll call it.
Speaker 1: Ocean brainist. It's pretty good. Well, actually, when we come
Speaker 1: right back, we are going to talk about a literal
Speaker 1: brain highst Yes, really, how did you do this? Don't?
Speaker 1: It's magic? It's magic, man. I brain heisted you. You've
Speaker 1: been brain heisted. Seriously. I feel like I ate something
Speaker 1: that tricked me. All right, and we're back, and as promised,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about brain heist. Adam, have you ever
Speaker 1: heard about T gandhi I or toxoplasmosis. I can't say
Speaker 1: that one crossed my desk at any point that I recall.
Speaker 1: You get the memo, probably, but it was thrown out
Speaker 1: by my assistant who we're seeking to replace a CCED
Speaker 1: B bcced cp C. Yeah, it got it, got it
Speaker 1: got lost in the junk folder. Well. T GANDHIA or
Speaker 1: toxoplasmosis is that thing where a rat gets infected with
Speaker 1: this microscopic protozolan, and when that rat is infected, it
Speaker 1: causes these brain lesions and alters hormone production, making them
Speaker 1: fearless and possibly even attracted to cats. Because yeah, so
Speaker 1: this suits the T gandhi I. Uh, Because the t GANDHIAI.
Speaker 1: This little little protozoan reproduces only in the intestines of
Speaker 1: cat species can be house cats or wildcats, and so
Speaker 1: it will get Okay, this is a weird thing that
Speaker 1: a lot of parasites end up doing, where like they
Speaker 1: will disperse themselves by being eaten by one thing or
Speaker 1: accidentally picked up by one thing, and then that thing
Speaker 1: gets eaten by another thing, and now they're in the
Speaker 1: place where like, hey, this is the singles bar where
Speaker 1: we wanted to meet up and reproduce eight. It's the
Speaker 1: wrong bar, so they met the wrong Is that is
Speaker 1: that the it's actually it's like, so the rat is
Speaker 1: like the uber that they take to get to the
Speaker 1: singles bar, which is the cat and testines. But when
Speaker 1: the uber parks, it's parking inside the club because it
Speaker 1: just got eaten by the cat. Yeah, I for clarity,
Speaker 1: rat accidentally in just t gandhia I, T GANDHIAI does
Speaker 1: a brain heist takes over rat. Brain makes a rat
Speaker 1: go like, oh kitty cute, I love it goes up
Speaker 1: to the cat rackets eaten by the cat. Cat is
Speaker 1: like great, this is a weirdo, but I'll eat it
Speaker 1: cat now infest infected with t gandhia I. T gandhia I,
Speaker 1: you know, maids and reproduces inside the cat and test
Speaker 1: and cat poops. Nati gandhia I is out there again,
Speaker 1: ready to infect another rat. How do we know that?
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there's an actual answer, and this
Speaker 1: is half bit. How do we know everything that likes
Speaker 1: cats doesn't have this virus? Right like? Right, like that
Speaker 1: is a sorcery, that is biological sorcery. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: like there have been sort of jokes about that where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, maybe humans who are infected with t
Speaker 1: gandhia I like like cats. Um, but the there is
Speaker 1: a truth to that, which is kind of weird. Uh.
Speaker 1: There have been no conclusive studies that I've seen about
Speaker 1: humans liking cats because they're infected with ti gandhia I.
Speaker 1: Think we like cats just because they're adorable little murderers,
Speaker 1: and we love like true crime, and we love to
Speaker 1: pet soft things. So true crime plus like a soft
Speaker 1: thing is a cat. That's right, that's the math, that's
Speaker 1: the math. So uh yeah, So so ti gania We
Speaker 1: have talked about t GANDHIAI on the show before, but
Speaker 1: I got some cool updates aunti gandhia um. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: first of all, it's not just rats that Ti gandhia
Speaker 1: i can have an effect on In terms of behavior.
Speaker 1: Um chimpanzee is infected with Ti gandhia I have been
Speaker 1: observed to be attracted to leopard urine um, meaning they're like,
Speaker 1: this smells great. I like leopards sounds cool. And then leopards,
Speaker 1: uh by the way, just small detail, they love to
Speaker 1: eat chimpanzees. So not a great idea for a chimpanzee
Speaker 1: to like be attracted to the smell of a leopard.
Speaker 1: But again, the Ti ghandi it gets in the chimpanzee's brain,
Speaker 1: probably like the ideas that they cause some like cysts
Speaker 1: or brain lesions that alters the hormone production and then
Speaker 1: does a weird thing where the chimpanzee goes from like
Speaker 1: being afraid of the cappy to like being kind of
Speaker 1: into it, like being like, hey, this seems cool. This
Speaker 1: is terrifying. Yes, this is this is an abjectly terrifying thing, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: Just imagining the Chimpanzee council trying to diagnose thiss, like
Speaker 1: why do we keep having you know, why did Todd
Speaker 1: go over there and fall in love with the jaguar
Speaker 1: or whatever? Doctor animals, what's the answer, Well, did you
Speaker 1: try eating cyanide or your own babies? Then I'm out
Speaker 1: of ideas. Not very helpful, doctor animals, But boy does
Speaker 1: he get the job done. Yeah. And also, hyena cubs
Speaker 1: who have been infected with t gandhi I may lose
Speaker 1: their fear of lions and may be more likely to
Speaker 1: stroll up to a line. So observational studies have found
Speaker 1: that hyena cubs that are infected with Ti gandhia I
Speaker 1: approach approach lines more more often. This is incredible, Like
Speaker 1: it's so weird that that would work, right, It's bizarre
Speaker 1: where it's like yeah, like this protozoan is like well
Speaker 1: I need to be Like it's so choosy too and
Speaker 1: like spoiled. It's like I need to be in a
Speaker 1: cat and testine and nothing else will do. And then
Speaker 1: it makes sure that this poor animal it's infected is
Speaker 1: like suddenly like okay, I will wander up to this cat.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, hello, kitty, you're very large. I guess you're
Speaker 1: going to eat me. Oh well, like so this is
Speaker 1: obviously a dumb question, But are they sure that those
Speaker 1: that this this is a protozoa, that this protozoan wouldn't
Speaker 1: put in any creature, wouldn't make it attracted to its
Speaker 1: corresponding cat, Gennie. I just don't. Yeah, it's it's weird
Speaker 1: because it's not necessarily I don't think it's not that
Speaker 1: they have disproved that they're not sure that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: I just don't think they've found evidence that every animal
Speaker 1: is attracted to cats after being after being infected with
Speaker 1: t GANDHIA. So they wouldn't test that, Like, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: take it and injected into a hip and see, let's
Speaker 1: see if it likes leopards. Now, No, they definitely wouldn't
Speaker 1: do that. That'd be that'd be monstrous. Who would suggest it,
Speaker 1: right exactly? Who? Who? Indeed? Um? I mean later in
Speaker 1: the show we are going to talk about researchers doing
Speaker 1: messed up things, but they anyways, I was I was
Speaker 1: waiting for that. Yeah, it'll it'll be fun. I have
Speaker 1: immense respect for biology researchers, and yet again, once again,
Speaker 1: I would like to remind people that biology researchers can't
Speaker 1: it's like it's so good that they like biology and
Speaker 1: not murder because like the right, like the fiendish brains
Speaker 1: of the they're doing stuff for good mostly. Um so anyways, Uh,
Speaker 1: what a terrifying description of your job. It's mostly good
Speaker 1: what they're doing, thank god the times. Most of the times,
Speaker 1: I think ethnically, okay, yeah, that would be that would
Speaker 1: be a tough job to navigate emotionally, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: it's got to be a lot of for the greater good. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. Uh yeah, Like I want when I was
Speaker 1: in college, I like took care of some um contop
Speaker 1: tamarins that were involved in behavioral studies. And even though
Speaker 1: these were noninvasive studies, meaning they weren't like uh there
Speaker 1: was no surgery, the animals weren't killed or physically harmed
Speaker 1: any anyways, it was still like uncomfortable because it's like,
Speaker 1: as much as I enjoyed taking care of them, it's
Speaker 1: like they should be in the wild. This feels wrong,
Speaker 1: and like I'm not gonna like name any names, but
Speaker 1: like I do feel like in that specific instance, I
Speaker 1: don't think the research really justified having these captive animals
Speaker 1: in my you know, take it as it's worth opinion,
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, but a lot compared to mine. You
Speaker 1: don't you don't even brain heist me, so um so
Speaker 1: speaking brainhist uh More, research has come out about tea
Speaker 1: gandhia and its effects on other animals, and surprisingly it
Speaker 1: may not always lead to death by kitty kat and
Speaker 1: in fact can lead to positive results seemingly, which is
Speaker 1: very interesting. So wolves who are infected with T gandhia
Speaker 1: I may get a confidence boost that enables them to
Speaker 1: start their own packs and venture out into the world.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say this, the the effect of this
Speaker 1: brain heist really does feel similar to the effect of
Speaker 1: one too many beers, where you think maybe I could
Speaker 1: maybe I could hit on that person on the other
Speaker 1: side of the bar, right, only usually that person is
Speaker 1: a cat and I'm a rat. In this metaphor, for me,
Speaker 1: alcohol enables me to do worse and worse bits and
Speaker 1: thinking they're good and committing the bits that I really
Speaker 1: shouldn't be. Like. I remember once at college, my my
Speaker 1: darkest moment was when I had a few many two,
Speaker 1: few many two beers, like right now, you know, a
Speaker 1: few too many beers, and I was like sitting on
Speaker 1: some girls sweater and she's like, oh, excuse me, you're
Speaker 1: sitting on my sweater. I'm like, keep no warm for it,
Speaker 1: and she gave me a look of utter disgust. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, you're like no. The math adds up to
Speaker 1: that was funny, lady. Yeah, And I was right and
Speaker 1: she was wrong. Probably was warm and it was winter,
Speaker 1: so what the hell? Yeah, I can remember. I can
Speaker 1: remember a distinct moment when one too many beers made
Speaker 1: me stop remembering that waitresses are never flirting with you.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's like one beer where I was like,
Speaker 1: maybe she really is flirting. Yeah, like hey, sugar, and
Speaker 1: it's like I'm your sugar. I'm your sugar. It's real.
Speaker 1: And then my friend my friends thought that was hilarious
Speaker 1: that like I started like, maybe I think she's really
Speaker 1: He thought that was very funny. She called men, I
Speaker 1: think she's into me. That's right, that's I got brain heisted.
Speaker 1: She asked me how my meal is. She cares about me.
Speaker 1: She's got to be into me. Now. Was this waitress
Speaker 1: a giant jaguar or could have been? Could have been she?
Speaker 1: Because she was merciful that day. She waved me away
Speaker 1: as soon as I was like one quick personal question,
Speaker 1: no thanks, it was like relieve out. Well, so, so
Speaker 1: wolves do kind of get the the one too many
Speaker 1: beer like confidence boost from the US t GANDHIA apparently.
Speaker 1: So before we proceed, I think it's important to uh
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about wolf packs. So a lot
Speaker 1: of the info on wolf pack behavior is outdated because
Speaker 1: like that stuff about like alpha dominance um was based
Speaker 1: on research done on captive wolves. Uh. And captive wolves,
Speaker 1: like a lot of captive animals, their behavior is very
Speaker 1: different from wild wolves. Uh. Captive wolves, like they may
Speaker 1: be housed with a bunch of unrelated wolves. Usually they
Speaker 1: have less space, and so this tends to lead to conflicts.
Speaker 1: So like smaller spaces mean there's going to be more
Speaker 1: aggression because often in the wild, if you have some
Speaker 1: kind of conflict, the favored way to avoid that is
Speaker 1: to give each other space. Uh. Um. So like uh
Speaker 1: you know, and so like the researchers may have accurately
Speaker 1: observed these captive wolves, but it in no way kind
Speaker 1: of reflected the behavior of wild wolves. So wild wolf
Speaker 1: packs are more like a family. Um so uh instead
Speaker 1: of this like thing of like alpha's dominate beta's as
Speaker 1: much as pick up artists would like this to be true. Uh,
Speaker 1: A pack structure for wolves is like there's parents and
Speaker 1: then a bunch of kids, and the parents kind of
Speaker 1: laid down the law for the kids. Um. So you
Speaker 1: have an alpha breeding pair, which is like typically the
Speaker 1: mother and the father of the rest of the pack. Uh.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there are unrelated wolves who will like join the
Speaker 1: pack if they are accepted. So it's basically like a
Speaker 1: big Thanksgiving with a bunch of siblings and then maybe
Speaker 1: some like family friends that tag along. Um, and then
Speaker 1: like the mother and father wolf are sort of enforcing
Speaker 1: rules about like who gets to eat first, and like hey,
Speaker 1: sit down, mind your table manners, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Don't bring up this topic. It pisses off your uncle everything. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't remind him of that time he got his pasta
Speaker 1: and a wolf trap. You know he's aware. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: likes to talk about it. Yeah, so gone. So yeah,
Speaker 1: overall these are like kind of family dynamics. Um. There
Speaker 1: there is something of there is like a hierarchical structure,
Speaker 1: but it's much less this thing of like well the
Speaker 1: alf the wolves like dominate the lessers and like you know,
Speaker 1: bully them into submission, and more like you know, mom
Speaker 1: and dad sort of get mad at you. So like
Speaker 1: that analogy suggests there's something a little more nurturing about
Speaker 1: that environment. Is that? Am I wrong in thinking that
Speaker 1: that's that's what you want? Okay? Great, No, that you're
Speaker 1: not wrong. I mean, it's obviously more complicated than like
Speaker 1: say or it's a it's different from say like family
Speaker 1: relations with humans, like typically we don't bite our offspring,
Speaker 1: um typically when we're mad at them. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's you know, like I would say, so the offspring
Speaker 1: gain an advantage by being in this group, even if
Speaker 1: like some of the rules seem kind of like unfair,
Speaker 1: like the alpha you know sometimes like the alphas will
Speaker 1: get the best choice of the meat or something. But
Speaker 1: like they also are teaching their offspring how to hunt.
Speaker 1: They are working together to bring down larger prey than
Speaker 1: any of them could bring down individuals. So you know,
Speaker 1: it is and so it is more of a like
Speaker 1: cooperative dynamic than just this sort of bully kind of
Speaker 1: ordering every Yeah, yeah, like I've enthralled you right exactly, Gale.
Speaker 1: So so that that's a good background to know because
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about wolves like being more confident
Speaker 1: and being able to go off and start their own pack.
Speaker 1: You know, it's more like a wolf going off starting
Speaker 1: its own family. It's not so much the classic view
Speaker 1: of wolves. Uh, how we learned from captive wolves, which
Speaker 1: doesn't really represent them. I'm taking my mental image out
Speaker 1: of the frat house and into the suburbs. I totally
Speaker 1: get it. In some ways, the suburbs are far more
Speaker 1: vicious than the frat house. So uh, no doubt. So
Speaker 1: the research there is this research study that looked at
Speaker 1: blood samples from wolves and yellowstone, and they found that
Speaker 1: wolves infected with t GANDHII were far more likely to
Speaker 1: disperse uh far from their home range and more likely
Speaker 1: to become leaders of their own packs. So what can
Speaker 1: we like infer from this, right? Because it's tricky, like
Speaker 1: when you find an effect or correlation, like it's really
Speaker 1: difficult to kind of establish causality, like is the uh
Speaker 1: is the parasite causing this boosting confidence? Are more confident
Speaker 1: animals more likely to be infected with this parasite? So? Um?
Speaker 1: I looked into the study and uh, it seems like
Speaker 1: they did do a pretty good job in trying to
Speaker 1: adjust for a lot of factors, so like UH. In
Speaker 1: the study parasitic infection increases risk taking in a social
Speaker 1: intermediate host carnivore published in Nature, UH, the authors try
Speaker 1: to control for a multiple number of factors, so like
Speaker 1: they would see how t GANDHAI infections are influenced by sex, age,
Speaker 1: proximity to cougar populations, and they controlled for these factors
Speaker 1: in their analysis. They also like monitored wolves over a
Speaker 1: number of months to try to establish causality of infection
Speaker 1: on behavior, so like they would see, like at what
Speaker 1: point they're like infected, and then in the following months,
Speaker 1: how likely they were to like disperse or join their
Speaker 1: own uh start their own packs. So it's like they
Speaker 1: it's like they went to like a Ted talk for
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship or something, so the viruses like, you can do it.
Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, I'm gonna start my own pack.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always been saying. You know what's funny
Speaker 1: is there is some research on humans um that seem
Speaker 1: to suggest that maybe t gandhi I produces more entrepreneurs Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm fantastic. I am a little okay, so full disclosure,
Speaker 1: I'm a little skeptical of this. I think that it's
Speaker 1: a really interesting idea and I think we should do
Speaker 1: more research on it. But I think it's a study
Speaker 1: that we need to do more follow up on. So like, basically,
Speaker 1: students who were infected with our tested positive for having
Speaker 1: like a team GANDHIAI were one and a half times
Speaker 1: more likely to major in business. So again I think
Speaker 1: remember like the problems that I talked about with the
Speaker 1: Wolf study that they seem to uh control for it's
Speaker 1: a lot It's very hard to do when you're doing
Speaker 1: an observational study where you have a lot of different
Speaker 1: kind of human behaviors. So like, um, the study authors
Speaker 1: admit this is just correlational. They weren't able to establish
Speaker 1: causality because like, for instance, maybe students who are more
Speaker 1: bold or you know in some kind of like social
Speaker 1: class to uh interact more with cats, or maybe like
Speaker 1: eat more like undercooked meat or something like they eat
Speaker 1: more meat in general, so they are more likely to
Speaker 1: get infected with te GANDHIA because they eat steak a
Speaker 1: lot or something. Uh, And maybe they're also more likely
Speaker 1: to be business school students. Uh. And so you know,
Speaker 1: it's like it could be of behavior A will ask
Speaker 1: a different behavior that both makes them more likely to
Speaker 1: contract the virus because like hey, maybe they hang out
Speaker 1: with cats more or eat more meat or whatever, um,
Speaker 1: but also that makes them more likely to be business
Speaker 1: school students. So I mean, I just want to know
Speaker 1: how many of them have attended a masterclass, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, like there's just certain ways that I'd like
Speaker 1: this test to go. How many of them are, like
Speaker 1: ordering specialty drinks at Starbucks? I want I want to
Speaker 1: long term study on te gandhia I on whether people
Speaker 1: invest in crypto. Oh please could be please, thank you?
Speaker 1: That's all I want. Do they were they in early
Speaker 1: on n f T s test those people exactly right?
Speaker 1: And so like whether or not you think these are
Speaker 1: confident in bold behaviors or maybe stupid behaviors, because like hey,
Speaker 1: like when the wolf starts its own pack, We're like, hey,
Speaker 1: that's a confident wolf. But when a rat gets eaten
Speaker 1: by a cat, were like, that's a stupid rat. That's
Speaker 1: a dumb rat. And when a when a your friend
Speaker 1: forwards you an email about ethereum, that's a that's been
Speaker 1: a brain high strain. I was speaking with did you
Speaker 1: see my blank Club of Coffee c C C C
Speaker 1: C C. I was gently I was gently bringing it
Speaker 1: up with a wink. And you did not acknowledge that win. Creature,
Speaker 1: creature cash, creature cash, creature use how it works. And
Speaker 1: it's got a little smiling protozoa. Yeah, as it's icon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's like this, you infect two, five,
Speaker 1: ten of your friends with creature cache and then creature
Speaker 1: case and it goes upstream. You got your downstreams, you
Speaker 1: got your stream. It floats upstream, loads upstream. We all win,
Speaker 1: except for you, but mostly me. It's swimming up river
Speaker 1: into fortune. Yeah. I don't know what kind of being
Speaker 1: we're creating. Investing Creek, give me five dollars for your
Speaker 1: own slice of creature. I'm gonna I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna go bankrupt and
Speaker 1: then get my own. Like, what is it? Where where
Speaker 1: is that guy? Felony? I believe it's called Peakman Fried. No, No,
Speaker 1: he's he's like in where is it? He's in some
Speaker 1: kind of like resort now hiding out right. Yes, he's
Speaker 1: he's in a minimum security beach prison, a minimum security
Speaker 1: resort he's got a couple of years of vacation to do.
Speaker 1: Let's test Let's test Baker Big Bakerman Fried Bank Bankman Fried.
Speaker 1: Let's test him for Tea Gandhi. I. He might have it.
Speaker 1: He could get the tea GANDHIAI defense. I had to
Speaker 1: differ of these people. I was inspected. I got the
Speaker 1: bad germs. That's why I was so excited about And
Speaker 1: I promised, you creepy scientists, and we're going to get
Speaker 1: into it now. Thank you. That's all I've been asking for.
Speaker 1: I know, he's like, please tell me about science atrocities,
Speaker 1: and I deliver. Name the trash scientists I'd like to
Speaker 1: hear about. It's not delivery, it's dig golden, it's um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's talk about eating garbage. Uh, and of
Speaker 1: course I'm not talking about junk food, which is decidedly
Speaker 1: not garbage. Have you tasted it? It's good, That's all
Speaker 1: I've tasted. I thought this podcast was a gentle rebuke. No, no,
Speaker 1: you know what, like, yeah, it's unhealthy, but I feel
Speaker 1: like once you've committed to a bag of chips, you
Speaker 1: got to enjoy it, you know what. Yes, I'm doing
Speaker 1: full hallopenio Supreme Cheetos right after this, just a full
Speaker 1: bag of those the Hallopenia ones, you know, the green
Speaker 1: ones we called Hallopenia Supreme. No, I think that title.
Speaker 1: I forgot what they're called Halloween. I want to say blast,
Speaker 1: but I know that's not right. You gave it that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it deserves to be called that Halloween is Hollopeni Supreme.
Speaker 1: That's right. Give that thing a top hatne monocle. Right,
Speaker 1: but that's the peanutsman. Well, I feel like he's the
Speaker 1: most important of the snack creatures. Mr Cheeto is the
Speaker 1: cheetah right, Chester Chester Chter. He's got sunglasses, and I
Speaker 1: guess the implication is he's orange, just like the Cheetos,
Speaker 1: because I think that's right. It's it's like his dust.
Speaker 1: He's like literally dusted all of those chips, like those
Speaker 1: little puffs special Cheetah dust. His dandruff, they like his
Speaker 1: dandruff is the powder on the Cheetos. Do you ever
Speaker 1: notice how much more you let cats after eat Cheetahs.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's infected with cheese, gandhya. It ain't easy
Speaker 1: being cheesy, that's right. It's a hard life for him anyways. Uh,
Speaker 1: that aside I'm talking about actual trash can garbage, like
Speaker 1: indigestible garbage. Um, like one of the least appetizing things. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess there's a lot of unappetizing things I can
Speaker 1: creatively think of that come out of a garbage can,
Speaker 1: but um, like a styrofoam cup. I don't even like
Speaker 1: using styrofoam as cutlery or cuppery. I hate the feel
Speaker 1: of styrofoam, like that squeaking sound. Yeah, and do you
Speaker 1: feel bad now? Oh yeah. It's like, man, this is
Speaker 1: this is gonna last like two thousand years. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like we're converting all of the planet into pure styrofoam.
Speaker 1: M that's all that will be left. But on a
Speaker 1: more personal note is that I just don't like the
Speaker 1: mouth feel. I don't like the squeakiness of it, Like
Speaker 1: the two styrofoam things squeaking against each other. Uh it
Speaker 1: hurts um my soul. I don't know. It's like I
Speaker 1: literally have this like reaction, this shuddering reaction to it.
Speaker 1: Is that that's certainly not me, right, Like, no, that's
Speaker 1: not you, it's it's it's not it's a little bit
Speaker 1: squishier and grosser than like two balloons rubbing against each other,
Speaker 1: which is which is also like a mortifying squeak. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't love that either, but yes, like the tooth
Speaker 1: field to when I like when like styrofoam, Like you
Speaker 1: have a styrofoam cup and it like gently scrapes against
Speaker 1: your top teeth, I kind of want to die. Well
Speaker 1: that's because it like scrapes right off, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like like styrofoam is like like it feels
Speaker 1: like it's made of like the crumbliest material there is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like it feels like it's barely holding together as a solid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I hate everything about styrofoam. I'm gonna be honest, um,
Speaker 1: but like for every classy lady like me who refuses
Speaker 1: to eat styrofoam is a worm with no dignity, So
Speaker 1: talk about amazingly. I wrote that line for myself ahead
Speaker 1: of time. Uh, A shameless worm who just is like
Speaker 1: I'll eat that styrofoam bracket. Right. Yeah, here's here's me,
Speaker 1: classy lady, and here's worm who eats styrofoam. Down here.
Speaker 1: Put it in my put it in my equivalent of mouth.
Speaker 1: It's just a mouth equivalent of a mouth is just mouth. Um.
Speaker 1: Worms have mouth, so warms have mouths. Of course they
Speaker 1: did not. That sounded insane that I did not know
Speaker 1: they eat at them with no I thought they honestly,
Speaker 1: I thought they absorbed it with their slime powers. I
Speaker 1: really did, you know. That's not like the worst idea.
Speaker 1: There are warm like things that do absorb nutrients through
Speaker 1: their skin, like the hagfish, although they also have a mouth.
Speaker 1: But it's not so you know, it's not not a
Speaker 1: not a bad idea, but they do have mouth. Um.
Speaker 1: Let's chat about the larvae of the darkling beetle. So
Speaker 1: the darkling beetles are a family of beetles found all
Speaker 1: over the world in deserts and forests, and they love
Speaker 1: to eat decaying plant matter, including decaying wood. That's just wood,
Speaker 1: that's just that's wood. That's a little tangy wood. That's fun.
Speaker 1: Yet in a party forest, each invest in early then
Speaker 1: they retired cane um. So uh, we will focus on
Speaker 1: Zoophobus mario, which is the beetle whose larval stage is
Speaker 1: uh called a fun name. Super worms superworms technically not
Speaker 1: like worms. Um, they're larva. I mean like sometimes we
Speaker 1: like call larva worms by larva larva because they're like
Speaker 1: the larval stage of an insect or an arthropod on
Speaker 1: in this case this beetle and um so they're not
Speaker 1: technically worms, but you know they get a cool nickname though,
Speaker 1: super worms. Great. I love it. Oh yeah, absolutely sounds
Speaker 1: like he's gonna like it's like fly around the city
Speaker 1: solving and defeating crime, and the criminal is gonna be like,
Speaker 1: oh it just hit my face? Is this a little noodle? No,
Speaker 1: super warm? That's super warm, super warm, wrestling your crime
Speaker 1: from you with its apparently with its mouth. It also
Speaker 1: sounds like the exact name of a SKA band I
Speaker 1: may or may not have started in high school. Really yeah,
Speaker 1: why not literally or just what it might or in
Speaker 1: this bit right? Yes, uh it's it's the kind of
Speaker 1: name SKA bands were taking in the late nineties. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to like put your bit on trial of like
Speaker 1: is that the truth? At him? Are you telling lies
Speaker 1: to me? Where was this? Where was this bit five
Speaker 1: seconds earlier when it was uttered without consequence? Doesn't have
Speaker 1: an alibi? So it doesn't. Uh so the Phoebus memorial
Speaker 1: um as adults are matt black beetles that can grow
Speaker 1: over two inches or fifty seven millimeters long. You know,
Speaker 1: they're there's just kind of normal looking beetles. Um. The
Speaker 1: super warm larva, the baby version of the beetles, are
Speaker 1: light brown in color, uh, and grow to be around
Speaker 1: one and a half inches to two inches or fifty
Speaker 1: to sixty millimeters long. So you know, you know they're
Speaker 1: not like huge, but they're I guess they're called superworms
Speaker 1: because they look like large, like extra large meal worms. Um,
Speaker 1: they're actually used. Yeah, they're actually used to feed pet
Speaker 1: insectivores like birds, reptiles and fish. So like pet owners
Speaker 1: will buy these and feed them to their animals. Well,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like the kind of thing is that
Speaker 1: that's got to be better than normal words for my pet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: ford of exactly, you know, like like dirt enriched worms
Speaker 1: those Yeah, part of a balanced beak fest, balanced parrot meal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do feel like, uh, superworms is a little bit
Speaker 1: of a treacherous name because what I want is for
Speaker 1: the worm to be gigantic and for the beetle that
Speaker 1: comes out of it to be normaliz, Like if we
Speaker 1: never see that in nature, Actually we do not worms,
Speaker 1: but we have the paradoxical frog, where the the tadpole
Speaker 1: is kind of larger or longer than the frog, and
Speaker 1: it's just that this tail sort of gets absorbed by
Speaker 1: the frog, says, it's metamorphosizing from a tadpole into a frog,
Speaker 1: and so it's just kind of using up that tail
Speaker 1: energy during its metamorphosis. Um. And so it looks it's
Speaker 1: seems like the frog is like smaller, like somehow there
Speaker 1: has been a loss of matter here. But it's just
Speaker 1: it's but it's not a big change, right, Like it's
Speaker 1: a it's the smallest change. It's a. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: like a it's not a ridiculous change, because that's what
Speaker 1: I want. I want the worm to be like a
Speaker 1: foot long, and I want the frog to be or
Speaker 1: the beetle to be normal sized. Like it's like the
Speaker 1: worm was a high school quarterback, like like a Benjamin
Speaker 1: Button situation, except that Benjamin Button because like in the movie,
Speaker 1: it's like he comes out small. Um here's okay, Now
Speaker 1: here's what is confusing about Benjamin Button. I've always had
Speaker 1: this problem with it. The idea, the conceit of the
Speaker 1: movie is that Benjamin Button is born old and gets young. Okay,
Speaker 1: got it. But when he's born old, he's small, he's little.
Speaker 1: He's like an old man born because he's got to
Speaker 1: come out somehow, and so he's got to be small. Okay.
Speaker 1: As the movie progresses, he gets younger and younger and
Speaker 1: so turns back into baby. But he's small again. So
Speaker 1: here's my problem, giant giant baby, because he starts out
Speaker 1: small and ends up small again. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: It's like old Tommy Melville, Hermie Hermie Melville is trying
Speaker 1: to hide the absolute horror of this concept, like it's
Speaker 1: so horrifying. Gonsip a little less cute if Kate Blanchet
Speaker 1: is walking along with her former lover who's now a baby, um,
Speaker 1: which I always thought was weird. That's like um, but
Speaker 1: now like instead it's just walking along with giant baby.
Speaker 1: Is like you used to be my lover, Now you're
Speaker 1: a giant baby. That's so much funnier, though it's like
Speaker 1: legally so funny, like like a baby the size of
Speaker 1: a normal person, like a tall baby, you know, like
Speaker 1: it's has to push this bassinet that's like the size
Speaker 1: of a limousine. You know. It's honestly, that's that's a
Speaker 1: good movie. Come on, baby, Brad Pitt, let's uh you know,
Speaker 1: where's where's that reboot? Where's that reboot? Poorly conceived metaphor
Speaker 1: for dementia. Um. Anyways, we were talking about worms, and
Speaker 1: in fact not worms but larva. So super worms are
Speaker 1: incredibly super and not just because um they are food
Speaker 1: for birds and that they are slightly larger than meal worms.
Speaker 1: They have another superpower. So they can eat styrofoam, which
Speaker 1: is benanes. Why why why can't they eat it? H Well,
Speaker 1: I'll answer that question for you, Adam. First of all,
Speaker 1: what styrofoam. Styrofoam or polystyrene is a synthetic polymer. It's
Speaker 1: not biodegradable, meaning that if left outside, bacteria and microorganisms
Speaker 1: will not break it down. So it's not great for
Speaker 1: the environment because it just we we take energy to
Speaker 1: make it and then now it's it's not being reclaimed
Speaker 1: by the earth and it sits there landfills right exactly.
Speaker 1: It ages more than like Roman colosseums, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like, you know, the ruins of
Speaker 1: our society are all going to be like dirofied. Yeah. So, um,
Speaker 1: but somehow superworms can eat styrofoam. So um full disclosure,
Speaker 1: styrofoam is not the most nutritious or delicious food for
Speaker 1: these superworms, but they can do it, so they'll take it.
Speaker 1: They'll take it in a pinch. It's like mac and
Speaker 1: cheese for them, exactly. Yea craft. We're talking about craft,
Speaker 1: not Annie's, right, because Annie's is, you know, Andie's is
Speaker 1: a delicacy. Craft. Mac and cheese is the ultimate fill
Speaker 1: in the blank food. I used to, at the lowest
Speaker 1: point in my life, eat it when it was refrigerated
Speaker 1: and and became sort of like a cake. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: because you'd like refrigerate it and then like take it
Speaker 1: out of the little pot and it just sort of
Speaker 1: come out as as as a little loaf, and I can,
Speaker 1: can I take a nice slice out of cold mac
Speaker 1: and cheese? I fixed myself, don't worry. That's a real
Speaker 1: natier for sure. That's that's that's the moment in the
Speaker 1: screenplay where you get your crew together and fight back.
Speaker 1: Finally in a screenplay. Inexplicably be in my underpants while
Speaker 1: doing this, but generally I was clothed, thank god, thank god.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, um onto the scientists being mean to
Speaker 1: larva um. So in a twisted University of Queensland study,
Speaker 1: super worms were divided into three groups, those who were
Speaker 1: fed brand flakes uh, those who were served a heaping
Speaker 1: pile of nothing, and then those who were fed styrofoam
Speaker 1: so uh. In a in a study that could only
Speaker 1: be done because we apparently have no sympathy for larva um,
Speaker 1: they compared the outcomes of these three groups of superworms.
Speaker 1: So the super worms who got to eat brand flakes
Speaker 1: were living large, they having a great life. Of course,
Speaker 1: have a great life. Yeah, they're fat, they were happy,
Speaker 1: and they pupated, meaning they metamorphosized from the larva to
Speaker 1: an adult stage over ninety percent of the time. So
Speaker 1: they're doing great. Yeah. The superworms who got nothing and
Speaker 1: then we're told to like it um didn't do so good.
Speaker 1: They didn't really gain weight. They only pupated ten percent
Speaker 1: at the time, So, you know, not a good situation. Surprising, right,
Speaker 1: I mean presumably I think that like for a lot
Speaker 1: there there was like they had to pause the study
Speaker 1: because too many of them were resorting to cannibalism, so
Speaker 1: like they had to isolate, they had to isolate the
Speaker 1: super worms, so they couldn't literally eat each other do
Speaker 1: a Dawner party situation of super worms, it turns into
Speaker 1: the walking dead in there, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it's just an endless tale of sorrow reality great um.
Speaker 1: And then there's just like one worm that's always going
Speaker 1: like coral co it's wearing a hat but always yeah uh.
Speaker 1: And then these super worms who were fed styrofoam actually
Speaker 1: slowly gained weight, you know, not as not as well
Speaker 1: as the brand eaters, but they were able to pupate
Speaker 1: sixties seven person at the time. So this sames sandicate
Speaker 1: that styrofoam is way better than nothing. What a sort
Speaker 1: in same test, I put literally anything there and proven
Speaker 1: that I feel, like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: I mean something that's not poisoned, okay, but like they
Speaker 1: could have put any food stuff there that but it's
Speaker 1: proven that it's better than zero food. Well no, I
Speaker 1: mean it actually makes sense because if styrofoam could not
Speaker 1: be digested as we assume like it probably shouldn't be,
Speaker 1: then it should be zero. It should be the same,
Speaker 1: It should be the same as the ones that get nothing,
Speaker 1: because like if you are given like like here, eat
Speaker 1: some sand, you're not going to do well. It's not
Speaker 1: going to be better than nothing. Will Yeah. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking of like like tiny atoms bursting out of
Speaker 1: like one little foot becomes another me. Yeah, exactly, Well
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's budding. You're talking about reproducing by
Speaker 1: butting like a coral, like coral co uh so, like
Speaker 1: there'd be a little chrysalis around, you know, flag or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then it's Adam's face on a butterfly's body improvement.
Speaker 1: I think everybody gets improved by that, right for everybody.
Speaker 1: Human face on a butterfly's body is Um, I'm picturing
Speaker 1: it and I'm not loving it, I say so. Uh yeah.
Speaker 1: So this indicates the fact that they not only gained weight,
Speaker 1: but they were able to pupate, so they had enough
Speaker 1: energy and nutrition to pupate a shockingly you know, passing
Speaker 1: grade of sixty seven. Um. Yeah, means that they were
Speaker 1: able to get a shocking amount of nutrition from the styrofoam.
Speaker 1: So researchers suspect that there is some kind of symbiotic
Speaker 1: relationship between the super worms and a gut bacteria, and
Speaker 1: that's somehow together the larva and the gut bacteria managed
Speaker 1: to digest this typically inedible material. So uh, you know,
Speaker 1: because like if you put star from out on the ground,
Speaker 1: it doesn't break down like you know, generally speaking like
Speaker 1: by from bacteria, even if you like put it in water,
Speaker 1: I don't think it really breaks down. But somehow there's
Speaker 1: something going on with this superworm that there's potentially some
Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship where it's able to digest this. It's sort
Speaker 1: of like with termites. Um termites will eat wood and
Speaker 1: be able to derive nutrients from that thanks to symbiotic
Speaker 1: um bacteria that they have in their guts. And if
Speaker 1: you've wondered like okay, well wait, if bacteria can eat wood, uh,
Speaker 1: then why isn't my house just a rotting you know,
Speaker 1: pile of mush? Well, like what will break down? Like
Speaker 1: say you if you have like a chair and you've
Speaker 1: ever had it like sit out it's unfinished and it's like,
Speaker 1: uh sits out in the rain and it gets it
Speaker 1: rots it exactly because the water is a good environment
Speaker 1: for the bacteria to thrive and like a dry and
Speaker 1: vironment um the the wood is you know, it's like
Speaker 1: the bacteria has kind of nowhere to survive, and so
Speaker 1: the termite since the bacteria it's like happy and the
Speaker 1: and the termites gut can survive in there um. And
Speaker 1: then when the termite breaks down the wood and eats it,
Speaker 1: the bacteria that can then process the wood and actually
Speaker 1: turn it into usable nutrients for the bacteria or for
Speaker 1: the termite. So the thought, so the thought is maybe
Speaker 1: somehow the super worm and this bacteria are able to
Speaker 1: work together in a way that it can digest the styrofoam. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it did not evolve to digest styrofoam, because styrofoam came
Speaker 1: way after the portion of this thing. It's just incidental
Speaker 1: because it breaks down plant material, rotting wood, so it
Speaker 1: must have some pretty, you know, great gut bacteria that
Speaker 1: helps it break down and incidentally seems to also help
Speaker 1: it break down styrofoam. So it feels it feels like
Speaker 1: we're like ten years from some scientists just pouring it
Speaker 1: on a landfill, just taking a mountain of super worms
Speaker 1: and pouring it on a lamp. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: what like this is the application they're thinking that maybe
Speaker 1: we can use this to help break down styrofoam. I mean,
Speaker 1: like obviously, like the better thing is that we don't
Speaker 1: create the problem in the first place, um and find
Speaker 1: better materials to make than styrofoam. But yeah, like having
Speaker 1: having uh animals that can break down like plastics and
Speaker 1: styrofoam would be good for our already existing heaping piles
Speaker 1: of trash that we have created. But then you then
Speaker 1: you got the problem of like the Beatles have too
Speaker 1: much leverage, what I mean, And then and then we
Speaker 1: have another We got a war on our hands and treaties.
Speaker 1: We gotta make Beetle treatise in favor of the Beatles union. Honestly,
Speaker 1: of course, who wouldn't be you know, you know I
Speaker 1: hadn't asked for this exactly. I mean like, I kind
Speaker 1: of also love the idea of of these little super
Speaker 1: worms going on strike and having tiny signs that too,
Speaker 1: I like that too. I like I like them having
Speaker 1: to sort out conflicts with their beetle overlords, right exactly. Wait, wait, no,
Speaker 1: the worms are the beetles babies. We would be the
Speaker 1: overlords because we'd be like literally enslaving their babies to
Speaker 1: make them eat our styrofoam. I feel like I can't
Speaker 1: be the first to break the idea of generational oppression
Speaker 1: to you. I feel like you're like, yes, humans take
Speaker 1: our babies and make them work in the styrofoam mind
Speaker 1: and pay and pay us and you know, pay us
Speaker 1: and whatever beetles want. Bring back the Larva labor laws.
Speaker 1: Bring them back. That's right, they were, because I don't
Speaker 1: think they exist. I'm pretty sure that wasn't pork barreled
Speaker 1: onto somebody's you know, somebody's bill a few years ago.
Speaker 1: So that here m wiggles Senator Jim bugs past the
Speaker 1: bill submitted to build of Congress today. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: about larval treatment And everyone's like, get the hell And
Speaker 1: it's just like that guy from Men in Black, he's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, for Nebraska, give us sugar, our vote, please,
Speaker 1: more water will sugar. I love it. I love super Worms.
Speaker 1: I loved it. But I feel like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like also, just like give him brand once in a while,
Speaker 1: let him meet something nice. Yeah, I mean I know
Speaker 1: that people are tossing out extra boxes of Raisin brand
Speaker 1: once in a while. I know that's happens. Honestly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree. I'm not a big scoops. It's okay, okay
Speaker 1: with Raisins, milk, milk and Raisins don't work for me, raisins.
Speaker 1: It's okay, Yeah, it's okay. I don't settle, doesn't settle
Speaker 1: for Syria, and I respect that. That's why you founded,
Speaker 1: because you're looking for a better currency. I remember you.
Speaker 1: Your down flows and your up flows will thank you
Speaker 1: when you invest in creature case. Just get five of
Speaker 1: your friends to invest in creature cash. In the value
Speaker 1: of creature cash will skyrocket. Well, Quentin tuple, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's real math. That's real math, real math. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: graphic real math slides in with the next just create
Speaker 1: a power point where I'm just like, it's just a
Speaker 1: line that shoots right up and like this is where
Speaker 1: it's going, that's going up, followed by just a couple
Speaker 1: of slides with bugs on them. Yeah. I like this
Speaker 1: presentation sold me instantly. And then I just like demonstrate.
Speaker 1: I'm like like with some super worms eating a styrofoam
Speaker 1: cup and they're so odd that they invest in creature.
Speaker 1: This is the kind of this is the kind of
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship creature cash funds. And then it's like worms at
Speaker 1: foam cup that says profits on it eating them These
Speaker 1: larva are you? Yeah, you're the larva yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: that ted Ax talk. Yeah, I'd give that for money. Absolutely. Well,
Speaker 1: before we go, we gotta play a little game. The
Speaker 1: game is called Guess Who Squawk and the Mry Animal
Speaker 1: Sound Game. Every week I introduced some Mr Animal Sound
Speaker 1: and you the listener, Hey, you the gift, try to
Speaker 1: guess who's squawking. The rules is it's any animal? Um,
Speaker 1: and it's yeah. It can be any animal. It can
Speaker 1: be more well known animals. It could be some obscure
Speaker 1: animal you've never heard of. Um. It's not necessarily a
Speaker 1: fair game. Um, but you know it's educational, so shut up.
Speaker 1: All right. So last week Mr Animals Sound, the hint
Speaker 1: was not quite a gobbler. So again the hint not
Speaker 1: quite a gobbler, and here is the sound. Mm hmmm
Speaker 1: mm hmmm. So Adam, did you hear that little boo? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like it was like like a cute fish,
Speaker 1: like flirting with a waiter. It's that waitress who was like,
Speaker 1: you're like, I know she's into it. Yeah, it's exactly.
Speaker 1: She was also a fish. You're right, um, not quite
Speaker 1: a gobbler? Is you're not quite a gobbler? Okay? Alright,
Speaker 1: so I guess that leads me with only one logical guess,
Speaker 1: and that is that this is a turkey vulture that
Speaker 1: is so close and I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: It's not quite true. I got some kisses from listeners
Speaker 1: to for turkey vultures and you guys are picking up
Speaker 1: what I'm putting down. But it's another it's another one.
Speaker 1: And this is funny because this is the Australian brush turkey.
Speaker 1: OK so it's another bird that's called a turkey who's
Speaker 1: not a turkey. Uh, congratulations to Amanda m who is
Speaker 1: the only one who gets correctly. Uh. Usually I have
Speaker 1: I do it where it's like the first three, but
Speaker 1: like this time, this one was a real real head scratcher. Um,
Speaker 1: so what does she get? What does she get? It?
Speaker 1: Some creature of shares. Right now, it's worth all the
Speaker 1: zero point zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero
Speaker 1: zero zero one dollars, But in the future, who knows
Speaker 1: it'll be worth one dollar? It will be so, yes,
Speaker 1: the Australian brush turkey is found in can you guess Australia?
Speaker 1: That's right? What if I's like no, it would be like,
Speaker 1: oh god, this is a dangerous game. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: found in eastern Australia and it's not related at all
Speaker 1: to American turkeys, does it? Does it look like a turkey?
Speaker 1: Kind of? Um? So it has black feathers, a bald
Speaker 1: red head and neck, and a yellow wattle that kind
Speaker 1: of looks like a fleshy, wrinkly, mildly scrotal necklace. Um.
Speaker 1: The the males will build amount of leaves and dirt,
Speaker 1: which he hopes females will come to use to lay
Speaker 1: her eggs after she made with him. So um, he
Speaker 1: can mate with multiple females at once and they all
Speaker 1: leave their eggs in this mound. Um, and he carefully
Speaker 1: constructs it. It's got dirt and it's got decaying leaves,
Speaker 1: and he kind of like sticks his face in there
Speaker 1: to check to make sure the temperature is good for
Speaker 1: egg hatching. And he also has to fend off rival
Speaker 1: males who want to steal his dirt mound. Sure a
Speaker 1: sweet pad you know in dating, You know, isn't that
Speaker 1: the human condition? We're all just fighting over dirt? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: that is. I believe My favorite show Succession that had
Speaker 1: the line life is a knife fight in the muck.
Speaker 1: Yes quite, I mean the Australian brush turkeys certainly, uh certain, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like succession, but Australian brush turkeys and it's all these
Speaker 1: like going also mistreating its children, you know, leading its
Speaker 1: jore to believe that it loves it. No, actually, you
Speaker 1: know speaking of that, like, yeah, it's not one of
Speaker 1: the like Compared to most bird species, this is not
Speaker 1: the most attentive parents. Once they hatch, the baby brush
Speaker 1: turkeys are fully fledged, meaning they can fly as soon
Speaker 1: as their wings dry, so like within hours they can't.
Speaker 1: They just find for themselves. There's no more parental care.
Speaker 1: That's it. Get a job, Get a job. The adult
Speaker 1: turkey is like you chipping in on rent. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: just let your hatched go get a job. That's so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah I love it. Yeah, so you know, very much
Speaker 1: like Succession, I guess, although I guess, like, wait, isn't
Speaker 1: succession a bunch of rich kids who are like yeah
Speaker 1: they none, none of them have a real job. Even
Speaker 1: even the running the company doesn't feel like a real job.
Speaker 1: Do you see what they do? Wow? How unrealistic? I say,
Speaker 1: while I'm funded by companies, well, I talk about bugs
Speaker 1: for an hour for money. I love companies. I am
Speaker 1: not infected with brain worm. That lesions me into loving
Speaker 1: company or in I believe that. Yeah, what if there's
Speaker 1: like a there's like a T GANDHIAI that makes makes
Speaker 1: you like attracted to ah capitalism. Oh my dude, if
Speaker 1: you don't think that somebody's working on that, if that
Speaker 1: was a real thing, it's if that's like priority number one.
Speaker 1: Maybe they already have maybe we're already eating it. I
Speaker 1: do really like those cheetos I mentioned earlier. Let's try
Speaker 1: the the what was it served? Supreme? Hallepinia Supreme? Mr
Speaker 1: Hall of Pain you supreme. Yeah, that's right. I'd do
Speaker 1: anything to eat those. I'd rather have that than a
Speaker 1: pot roast. I'd rather have that than a good community.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get. Like most of my
Speaker 1: comments on this show are very lovely and sweet, and
Speaker 1: I love I love them, and I love all of
Speaker 1: you listeners. But once in a while I get someone
Speaker 1: who I think has wandered into the wrong classroom, and
Speaker 1: we'll leave a comment where it's like I mentioned vaccines,
Speaker 1: is like, why do you have to get all political?
Speaker 1: I'm like, ma'am, this is a science podcast. Vaccines are
Speaker 1: a medical reality. I don't we like to get silly
Speaker 1: and joke about like Cheeto brain highsts, but it is
Speaker 1: science based, so you know, but I'm probably gonna get
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna get someone who's like, why why did
Speaker 1: you get all political with with the capitalism brain virus?
Speaker 1: And it'll be fun. You're gonna get it with somebody
Speaker 1: who's like, why do you have to get all political
Speaker 1: about that? That brush turkey could have been a bush
Speaker 1: turkey part of the Bushhooki clan. And it's like, all right, man,
Speaker 1: didn't mean to step into your whole thing. Why do
Speaker 1: you have to Why do you have to get all
Speaker 1: political saying you don't like styrofoam? What are you communist?
Speaker 1: I happen to work for big Styrofoam. Put food on
Speaker 1: my table, and most of its styrofoam. It's styrofoam food
Speaker 1: and I can eat it right, right, it's you want
Speaker 1: me out of a job in the styrofoam mines, right,
Speaker 1: just got hacking out big lumps of styrofoam, right, getting
Speaker 1: the foam lung. Yeah, yep, that's happening anyways. Um onto
Speaker 1: this week's mystery animals. Sound here's the hint. It's a
Speaker 1: fashionista with a great sense for what look is in season.
Speaker 1: So again the hint is, it's a fashionista with a
Speaker 1: great sense for what look is in season. I guess
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's got to be a peacock, right, or
Speaker 1: like or like a dapper monkey of some kind, a
Speaker 1: dapper monkey, some kind of the West African dapper monkey,
Speaker 1: the dapper tough did fancet monkey. That's my guest. But no,
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like peacock is the closest
Speaker 1: thing I can think of to your prompt, to your hint.
Speaker 1: Now the listener can't see my face, but this is
Speaker 1: an impartan. It's a no no, it's an impartant going
Speaker 1: for impartial. It's an impartial mask of impartiality. Because the
Speaker 1: answer won't be revealed until next week, go on the
Speaker 1: next episode of Creature Feature, where you'll find out the
Speaker 1: answer to this and also how Creature Case is doing
Speaker 1: on the markets. It's up, it has to be. It's
Speaker 1: have a these shares. The compound interest, man, is just like,
Speaker 1: I can't even tell you that's where you really make
Speaker 1: your money. You gotta divest, you gotta invest, you gotta
Speaker 1: like fold it. You win to fold it. You gotta
Speaker 1: no win to fold it and no win to hold it.
Speaker 1: That's the tricky part, is like people think it's knowing
Speaker 1: when to fold it, which is the tricky part. It's
Speaker 1: actually knowing when to hold it. It's the holding. It's
Speaker 1: the holding. We have so many holdings. Anyways, Um, so hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, here's the end of the podcast now.
Speaker 1: But Adam, thank you so much for joining. It was
Speaker 1: great to see you too. Just all the it's like, man,
Speaker 1: your um, I miss you too, man, And it's like
Speaker 1: this is my secret ploy where it's like, ha, be
Speaker 1: on my podcast now, you have to be with me.
Speaker 1: Now we have to be friendly for about an hour. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's how most of our friendships work
Speaker 1: now and pretty much pretty much. How can I monetize
Speaker 1: this friendship? Hey, we've all we've all accepted the brain
Speaker 1: virus and are doing We're all doing well. All of
Speaker 1: us are doing well. So it's nice. It's exchanging labor
Speaker 1: with you. It really is. So where can people find you?
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. So my my primary podcast that
Speaker 1: I do with Michael Swain is on the I Heart
Speaker 1: network and you mentioned it earlier. It's one upsmanship. It
Speaker 1: is about video games, where we decide which video games
Speaker 1: deserved to be preserved for aliens on a celestial hard drive.
Speaker 1: Uh so check that out. Space Space, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 1: We can make the case. You can make the space.
Speaker 1: I got it in a cereal box. That should be
Speaker 1: a new deep song for us. I had a couple
Speaker 1: other podcasts for those of you who are just enamored
Speaker 1: with my voice. I talk about movies and the art
Speaker 1: of directing and sharing media with your friends. And also
Speaker 1: we have a new podcast about the multiverse. All of
Speaker 1: that is over on the small Beans Patreon, which is
Speaker 1: patreon dot com forward slash small Beans. Go check it out.
Speaker 1: We'd love to we'd love for you to hear some
Speaker 1: of that stuff. And if you feel like it tosses
Speaker 1: a buck or two, which should be grateful, do it.
Speaker 1: Do it um and they do. Take creature cache. That's
Speaker 1: our primary that's our primary currency. It's very it's very
Speaker 1: secure because when you get a creature cache, what you're
Speaker 1: getting is like a handwritten note from me with a
Speaker 1: little smiling face that like this is indicative of one creature.
Speaker 1: That's right, that this indicates a creature cache. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: also a smiling Protozola and as we agree with thettle
Speaker 1: winky base right, it's a kind of mitochondria for a grid.
Speaker 1: One of its Floodgella is giving a thumbs up. That's it.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening, um, and investing
Speaker 1: in my pyramid scheme. If you're enjoying the show and
Speaker 1: you want to leave a comment, even if it's like
Speaker 1: to um, get mad at me for my financial stands, Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: do that because it actually really helps. I read all
Speaker 1: the comments. I really enjoy them. And uh, it's also
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be great with you. It's the algorithm loves that.
Speaker 1: It just eats that right up. It's like a comment. Huh,
Speaker 1: this must be a good podcast. Um, and we must
Speaker 1: all obey the algorithm. You know. Really, it's truly is.
Speaker 1: It's not even a joke. Um. And hey, thank you
Speaker 1: to the space Cossics for their super awesome song. Ex
Speaker 1: Alumina Creature features a production of I Heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app app podcasts or hey guess what
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: honest with you, don't care whatever you want, listen to
Speaker 1: wherever you want. You know what, I'm a free thinker.
Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday.