WEBVTT - NYC Sues Delivery App Over Lost Pay in Mamdani Crackdown 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:10.559 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.560 Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.840 Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.040 Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.560 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.960 Of course, it is now only fifteen days into the 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.280 New York City Mayor Zoramum Donnie's tenure, and he is. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.760 Making moves already. Alex, do you live in the city. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:34.120 I do. 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:35.200 I'm a lifelong New Yorker. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.360 You're a lifelong New Yorker, so you feel it more 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.440 than I do. I live in the suburbs along with 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:40.120 John Tuckers. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:41.560 So did you get your free bus service? 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.320 Yeah? Not yet, still waiting for. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.800 You, Still waiting a free child here take the bus. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:47.840 That often usually the train, so I don't think it'll 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.440 direct they impact me. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.239 Okay, but still waiting, still waiting. Let's check in with 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:53.920 Miles Miller. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.760 He is our senior reporter covering security the National Desk, 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.800 law enforcement, governments and cities. And it's here where we 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.040 want to talk to him, because Miles is joining us 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.800 from downtown Manhattan. And Miles talk to us a little 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.800 bit about what the new mayor, Zoramumdani is doing when 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:14.640 it comes to work. He is cracking down on some 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.680 companies and how they're treating workers. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.560 Yeah, you know, he's enlisted Lena Kahn as an advisor 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.400 unpaid advisor to him, of course, known to the Bloomberg 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.920 audience as the former FTC chair. In addition to that, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.800 Julie Sue who joined us on our fabulous Labor Fridays 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.560 right the fridays where we get the jobs report. And 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.559 then in addition to that Sam Levine, who was at 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:43.000 the FTC running enforcement. That's his dream team. And what 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.880 they're doing is going after companies that are involved in delivery, 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.040 that are involved in the gig economy to make sure 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.640 that workers are protected. The story across the Bloomberg terminal 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.160 just about twenty minutes ago is one that really they're 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:02.600 suing food delivery providers for what they say is withholding 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.000 pay from workers. And it really gets to the heart 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.519 of what the Mammdani administration is going to be about, 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:14.280 using little known laws to go after big companies to 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.400 fight for who they say is the little guy. The 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.800 company that is being sued today is Motoclick, and the 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.600 allegations are pretty simple that they violated delivery worker laws 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:30.600 by failing to pay the required minimum rate and deducting 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.600 canceled and refunded orders directly from their paychecks. And these 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.960 are folks who most times are only making you know, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:42.040 money off of the tips that they're getting from these 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:43.480 people who are ordering food. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.440 What you mentioned, the company that is in question here 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.800 is Motoclick. This is not a company that I think 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.280 a lot of people are necessarily familiar with. We don't 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.839 if you order from DoorDash or a grubhub, you don't 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.800 necessarily have a direct interaction with motoclick, do you. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:02:59.120 Right? 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.120 You know, this is what of those companies that says 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.200 it works with platforms like Uber Eats, door Dash and 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.600 grub hub. You know, you may value order through these companies, 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.400 and then you don't know that the folks who are 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.880 coming to deliver it are actually working with this. You know, 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:20.320 in some cases last mile company, they are basically integrated 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.160 into the point of sale systems at some of these restaurants. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.480 And so yeah, you may order from Uber lyft, but 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.400 you don't know that I was sorry, Uber or doordasher, grubhub, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.920 But you don't understand, you know, in that last mile 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.400 where it's coming from. Well, the city is putting them 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.200 unnotice that, you know that they're going to be sued 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.640 for this. And then in addition to that, the city 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.520 pass laws in the last year or so that protects 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.960 these workers. In addition to this lawsuit, they're also putting 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.560 the delivery companies on notice that there are specific laws 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.760 that protect workers as it relates to deliveries, making sure 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.080 that they get proper wages, minimum wage and all of that. 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.520 And if that's not followed, that they could meet the 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.640 same fate that's being met by motorclick right now miles. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.000 This of course follows the allegations that DoorDash and Uber 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.160 deprived New York City delivery workers of more than five 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.000 hundred and fifty million dollars in tips. That is a 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.720 lot of money. Is there a sense if this lawsuit 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.440 is successful that they might see those wages come back. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:18.920 Yeah. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.760 I think what the city wants to do, and specifically 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.479 the the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection wants to do, 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.919 is in filing any of these lawsuits or in making 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.600 these claims public, is to put pressure on these companies 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.880 to do the right thing before they get to the 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.240 enforcement level. We've seen a lot of these companies that 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.880 have been sued in the past, whether into the Blasio administration, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.640 whether being sued by the Controller's office, come to an 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.480 agreement on a settlement, and that money does trickle down 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.880 back to workers. But it doesn't stop with just the 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.040 city Hall and doesn't stop with the Comptroller's office. You know, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.160 just today the Manhattan DA also you know, trying to 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.719 make it clear that he wants protections for these workers 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.479 because these are you know, these wage cases continue to 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.480 pop up. It was just about a year and a 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.840 half ago, two years ago that Grimaldi's Pizza was being 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.400 accused of of wage theft and holding back pay pay 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.720 for these low paid workers. And that's going to be 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.680 a major focus of this administration. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.040 So can you reconcile this this first action, it's kind 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.239 of like a shot across about by the mum donnie 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:32.400 administration with the promises it had made to its supporters, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.400 to voters, to folks in the city, like alex Hemanova, 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.000 who's a lifelong New Yorker, is this is this kind 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.799 of the what they promised to prioritize. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.480 Yeah, I mean, you know, they have changed the role 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.640 that Julie Sue is in. It used to be the 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.160 mayor for a deputy mayor for economic development. But it's 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.800 not just economic development, it's it's really with a focus 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.400 on worker protection. It's really on a focus on equality 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.760 and rights for people. And you know, this is a 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.960 person who has spent a good amount of time in Washington, 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.160 had spent time in California, who is going to be 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.919 leading this effort. You know, when you look at Lena 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.600 Khan being involved in decision making here at city Hall 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.839 and going and doing what she knows best right and 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:23.320 going through you know, very complex parts of the city 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.320 Charter to find where you can really stick it to 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.800 companies or where they could stick it to companies, you know, 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.280 it really shows that this is a top priority for him. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.919 You know, and in addition to that, this role, the 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.240 role in consumer protection was one of the first roles 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:46.680 he filled after being being elected and right before take 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.080 it or right after he took office, because he knew 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.800 it was going to be something that people really relate to. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.800 Miles, when was the last time that we saw a 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.320 New York City mayor go after big companies like this? 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:58.400 Is this unusual. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:04.080 No, I mean in the Basio administration, we saw companies targeted, 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.840 certainly UH. And then you know, in the Atoms administration, 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.160 it was certainly a very pro business administration trying to 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:16.320 work with business, but also sort of the bonus on 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:17.080 businesses to. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:19.040 UH. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.120 And so it's it's a this is obviously a different tactic, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.400 and I think for the first time you're seeing UH 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.200 an administration where they're not taking people really from big 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.880 business and saying, Okay, here's how you can work on 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.120 economic development. In the Vasio administration, Lesha Glenn was the 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.160 Deputy Mayor for economic Development and had come from the 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.080 business community. No, these are people who've worked in government 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.320 for some time and are trying to figure out a 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.200 way to make government work for people who you know, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.520 don't have much money, or to hit at the affordability crisis. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.320 It's a it's really a first of its kind approach 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:58.440 to doing this kind of work. 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.160 Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.440 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.240 weekdays at ten am. He's done on Apple, Cocklay and 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.560 Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:15.520 Listen on demand. 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.120 Wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube. 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.880 Let's move over to the tech sector because there's some 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:27.080 big news for the AI sector given that Taiwan Semiconductor 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.320 Manufacturing and partner of Nvidia and other chip makers, came 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.280 out with a monster forecast. Man Deep saying is our 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.280 global tech research had apt Bloomberg Intelligence and he joins 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:40.840 US now and TSMC is a bellweather for the AI story, 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.200 and the revenue forecast it has given is growth of 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.800 almost thirty percent, handily beating analystsessimates. 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.920 Well, I mean, right now, we are in an environment 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:57.480 where the supply constraints are at the component level, at 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.840 the fab level, I mean TSMC doubt how advanced nodes 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.600 are almost seventy seven percent of their revenue. So that 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.480 just goes to show that if they have more wayfor 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.640 capacity at the advanced node level, they'll probably be you know, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.360 growing even faster. And that's why they raise their own capex. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.559 So think of the trickle down effect. Hyperscalers are raising 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.880 their capex. TSMC, being the fab layer, is raising their capex. 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.240 And this is the entire supply chain that everyone realizes 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.160 they need more data center capacity when it comes to 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.600 running AI and all the way through the supply chain. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.960 Right now, it's trickling down now. The question is obviously 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.760 of overbuild and if and when, you know, we'll hit 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.960 an equilibrium. And from what we have seen in terms 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.920 of partnerships and deal making like open Ai Cerebris, I 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.640 mean right now, they're trying to procure as much chip 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.199 capacity as they can because I mean Opening has said 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.400 their revenue growth is a function of the power and 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.280 chip available computer availability they have, so right last year 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:09.240 they grew their power and computer availability three x, their 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:13.320 revenue grew three x. So that's the kind of part 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.440 of the cycle we are in. And the question is 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.000 you know how long it's going to sustain and so 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.600 so far as signs are, this is going to carry 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:24.480 through at least through twenty twenty six. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.960 Mandy, what does the strong outlook from TSMC mean for 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.240 Intel and its foundry business. Intel is up some thirty 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.040 percent this year. Is it a positive sign for them 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.200 that demand is there or signed that TSMC is a 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:38.360 dominant name here. 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.559 Actually, there was some demand spill over to an Intel 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.079 and Samsung, especially on the non data center side. So 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.840 I mentioned TSMC is heavily skewed towards advanced notes and 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:55.520 more towards data centers. Well, there is demand for you know, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:00.360 chip capacity on the PC side, smartphone side, and that's 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.360 where there is some spillover that's carrying over to an 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.240 Intel on the PC side, to Samsung as well. And 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.840 so right now, everyone seems to be benefiting from overall 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.239 chip demand across the board. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.000 Right and something else that's in demand is memory. And 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.800 we've seen Micron, we've seen sand Disk, we've seen Western 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.840 Digital really benefit from that demand for memory chips. But 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:24.920 it also there's a downside to that because you have 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.360 hardware companies as a result under pressure because they need 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.280 to pay for that memory and they need to go 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.600 out and source it and it's not always available unless you. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:38.560 Are Jensen and Nvidia, who has really managed the supply chain. Well, 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.840 I mean, I was amazed how Nvidia mentioned that they 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.080 still feel comfortable holding on to that mid seventy percent 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.960 ross margins. They're one of the biggest users of HBM memory. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.840 That is a supply constrained right now, and the prices 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.560 are going through the roof, but they have logged in 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:01.319 those multi year agreements where these suppliers can really raise prices, 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.199 and so from that perspective, the bigger you are, if 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.080 you're an Apple, I'm sure they can source their memory. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.280 They may have to pay higher prices and it will 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.360 impact their gross margins, but not to the same extent 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.440 it's going to hit a smaller hardware vender. And that's 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.720 what I think we'll find out this earning season. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.760 Man Deep also looking at the story today about Oracle 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:27.199 struggling to hire workout workers for the buildout of its 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.360 headquarters in Nashville. What has this AI build out meant 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.840 for hiring the talent war? Is there anyone who's winning it? 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.800 Yeah, I mean we read the story on the terminal 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:42.280 about electricians, you know, having almost a doubling off their pay, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.960 and so anyone who is linked to that data center 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.840 construction right now is in high demand. And so it 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.960 doesn't surprise me that you are sort of in this 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.319 environment where laborers in short supply, you know, components are 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.800 in short supply, and putting all these things together is 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.640 taking longer time because everyone wants them to be ready overnight. Well, 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.920 that's where you're running into these bottom lines. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.920 Well too, Alex's point, Oracle is trying to attract workers 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.920 in Nashville where it's developing this riverfront headquarters. Is that 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.840 a place where the tech talent will flock to. 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.360 I mean, we've seen what has happened in Texas right 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.640 in terms of companies going to Texas just because it's 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.480 easier to set up data centers over there. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.559 So oh and no income tax. 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:36.200 No income tax, that's right. So all these pockets I 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.800 think are having their moment in terms of one attracting 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.320 these big companies. And if you have power, and I 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.880 haven't studied Nashville in that detail, but if you have power, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.400 then it suddenly becomes a very attractive destination. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.640 Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.800 You're listening to the Bloomberg and Helogen's podcast. Catch us 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.800 Live weekdays at ten am. He's done on Apple, Cocklay 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.760 and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.120 demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:11.800 on YouTube. 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.360 One of the tailwinds for the market heading into this 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.320 year was the expectation of a spate of deal making, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.720 and to that point, we did learn today that Boston 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.000 Scientific is looking to buy p Number for about fourteen 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.920 and a half billion dollars. Obviously, with the big banks 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:32.120 reporting earnings, bank executives are also making comments. David Solomon, 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.160 the CEO of Goldman Sachs, says that we are not 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.160 yet in the middle of a full on M and 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.960 A cycle, and he sees a very very good year 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.720 for M and A overall. Let's bring in Jennifer Ree, 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.640 she is our senior litigation analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, to 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.880 talk to us about the antitrust landscape. Is there an 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.360 active antitrust monitoring happening right now because this administration has 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.240 signaled that it wants to see deals being made. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:55.760 Yeah. 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.120 Absolutely, and it certainly is a big change from the 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.200 Biden administration, where we kind of had the opposite sentiment. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.120 I mean, we are really seeing very little activity from 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.040 the Department of Justice, a little bit more from the 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.760 Federal Trade Commission, but even in their case, it's been 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.760 pretty restrained. And it seems that both authorities are really 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.160 willing to work with the companies if they think that 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.120 there's a problem with the deal, to work out some 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.440 kind of settlement. And that's what didn't exist during the 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.680 Biden administration and why deal making was so stymied At 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.920 that time, and I think most companies see if we 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:27.800 can come up if we have a problem, A lot 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:29.760 of deals don't. But if we do and we can 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.920 come up with a solution, we can probably get it cleared. 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.080 Jen you mentioned muted activity from the regulators, but are 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.400 there any industries that they're targeting right now more than others. 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:40.520 Well, it looks like it. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.200 It's interesting that we see Boston Scientific has a deal 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.080 because of the few challenges that have been brought to 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.680 deals by the FTC, they've been in the healthcare space, 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.520 one in the housing area construction adhesives, which is a 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.520 recent case they filed, but two in the healthcare space. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.280 And it doesn't surprise me really because these are very 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.400 sensitive sector's, consumer facing sectors, and that does align with 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.680 essentially a populist agenda, which they talked about in the 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.240 beginning when they took on their positions, and so I 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.640 think we'll probably see if we see continued activity in 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.560 those areas or other very sensitive consumer areas. 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.080 The other thing that we need to keep in mind 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.960 is most of these companies that we're talking about are 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.040 big multinationals. They operate all around the world, so you 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.520 have US regulators and they may be stepping back and 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.760 letting things happen, but regulators in Europe may not be. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.800 And I bring this up because we heard reports yesterday 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.440 that Paramount and Netflix have been meeting with European Commission 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.640 officials as part of their bid for Warner Brothers. What 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.560 can pare contrast, for instance, the European Commission regulators with 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:45.440 those in the US. 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.320 You know, there's been a little bit of a pullback. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.760 I think when I think of really big regulators in antitrust, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.480 I think of US, China, UK and Europe. These are 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.080 the jurisdictions which would be willing to actually block. 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:58.680 A global deal. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.680 And we've seen a little bit of pullback across the board, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.159 and not so much with China. It's really just a 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.280 black box there. I can't speak to what they're doing. 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.040 But in the UK and in Europe there has also 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.720 been a bit of a pullback, especially in the UK 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.240 after they kind of got really chided from Microsoft Activision 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.600 and trying to step in there. The thing is, for 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.200 companies doing a deal that might have scrutiny in Europe, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.960 it's a bit scarier than in the US because they 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.520 have the ability under their law to actually block a deal, 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.720 whereas the US regulators don't. They have to go to 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:31.840 court and they have to win in court in order 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.320 to actually block a deal. It is far more difficult 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.960 for them. It is easier in the EU. And Netflix, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.040 by the way, is gigantic. I didn't know this until 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.520 I started looking at the deal, but it's really really. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.359 Big outside the US. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.080 An HBO is getting bigger in many of the countries 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.960 in Europe. It's recently expanded in Italy, in a seven 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:49.880 or eight other countries. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.400 So they will that deal. I think no matter which. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.000 Company ends up buying, Warner Brothers is going to get 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.239 a lot of scrutiny, and certainly scrutiny in EU, and 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.320 that is going to be one area where they're going 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:02.800 to have to work, I think, to get clearance. 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.280 Jen The past couple of years saw a lot of 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.040 high profile antitrust cases, specifically within big tech. We had 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.359 rulings against Google and Meta. What kind of precedent have 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.760 they set for big tech regulation in twenty twenty six. 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.280 Well, what they're showing is that it's going to be very, 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.360 very difficult for US and anti trust agencies to actually 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.760 tame what they view as monopolistic conduct. I mean, they 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.480 did win technically against Google with respect to monopolizing search, 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.159 but the remedy was fairly weak. They didn't get what 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.920 they were looking for. Look at what Google's doing now 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:40.359 with AI with Apple, which is exactly what the plaintiffs 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.720 were trying to avoid, you know, dominance in AI after 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:44.760 dominance in search. 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.480 So the difficulty they have is even. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.680 Where they win on liability, they have a really tough 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.720 time with remedies. Most US federal judges are going to 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.360 be very cautious when it comes to meddling in business 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.240 and the way a sector may develop, especially in technology, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.960 because it's so changing and nobody knows where it's going. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.520 So when you have these cautious judges, you're just not 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.560 going to get the drastic remedies that are probably the 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.840 remedies that are needed to really do something about the 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.680 market positions of some of these companies. So we're seeing 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.840 that it's going to be difficult, but we haven't seen 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.000 as much of a let up on the cases that 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.280 were inherited from the Biden administration. This DOJ and FTC 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.840 are continuing to go after these cases in court. They're 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.200 continuing to pursue what you might think of as a 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.840 drastic remedy a structural remedy. The next test will be 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.919 Live Nation, which is going to trial March second against 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:36.320 the DOJ and some states. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.560 Okay, so we'll watch for them. Then it's a bit 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.800 of leftover from the previous administration. We talk about regulators, 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.359 and that's usually how the antitrust enforcement shows up, or 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.480 any kind of pushback from government authorities. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.280 But there's also the role of President. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.439 Trump as well, and he's made clear that because he 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.879 has some firm opinions about certain companies and certain sectors, 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.439 that he's going to be what he says personally in 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:00.880 some of them. 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:01.360 That's right. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.399 Is there a playbook for this? I mean, how do 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.160 regulators work in concert with a mercurial president? 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:08.920 You know, there really. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.600 Isn't a playbook. This is somewhat unprecedented. Now there are 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.720 many that would argue that this kind of started during 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.040 the Biden administration, but we have authorities at the Federal 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.280 Trade Commission and Department of Justice that are very much 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.520 trying to align what they're doing in the anti trust 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.760 space with the policy priorities of this administration, I think 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.520 much more so than in the past. And they just 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.560 don't look like they'd be willing to buck the White 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:36.320 House if the White House has some feel or some something, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.800 you know, an issue with the deal. Right, So we're 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.879 seeing a lot of alignment, and we're also seeing a 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.880 lot of reemptive alignment. It's preemptive alignment. And we're seeing 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.520 a lot of lobbying which we hadn't seen before too 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.719 in the overruling of the Anti Trust Division by senior 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.280 officials who are talking to lobbyists. And so there is 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.359 a lot of concern right now in the anti trust 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.960 community about the rule of lobbying really prevailing over the 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.560 rule of law when it comes to merger enforcement. 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:05.920 And this is stuff that we see after the fact, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.040 after an announcement has made, as opposed to during it. 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:09.560