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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Tapolski,

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Speaker 1: and I have to tell you something. I have been

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Speaker 1: watching the show's succession, and finally, after four seasons, I've

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Speaker 1: decided that I'm enjoying it. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 1: the listener. If you're watching Succession, if you're not a

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Speaker 1: member of the media elite the way I am. If

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Speaker 1: you're not a member of the blue chech mafia from Twitter,

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Speaker 1: the old one, not the new shitty one, then you

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Speaker 1: maybe don't know about Succession. Maybe you're not watching it

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Speaker 1: because you're not a member of the coastal elites that

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Speaker 1: define and shape all news and culture. But as a

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Speaker 1: member of that elite squad of soy boys and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, whatever the fucking I don't know people call them,

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Speaker 1: but anyhow, as a member of the squad, not the

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Speaker 1: political one, but the elite squad of TV watchers, to

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Speaker 1: show about a very rich family that runs a media organization,

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Speaker 1: perhaps the only remaining successful media organization that any of

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Speaker 1: us have ever seen. I sort of hate watched the

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Speaker 1: first three seasons. To be honest with you, I didn't

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Speaker 1: love it. I didn't dislike it, but I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: I was in love with it or even totally liking it.

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Speaker 1: And then the season things have really taken off, and

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Speaker 1: unfortunately now it's ending. But I have been following and

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Speaker 1: reading a great writer at The Ringer named Katie Baker,

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Speaker 1: who's a senior staff writer there who writes about Succession,

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Speaker 1: amongst other things. She also writes about sports and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of really interesting stuff. And I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to somebody about Succession because I think Laura is tired

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Speaker 1: of me talking about it with her, and I thought

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Speaker 1: Katie would be fantastic because she's in the guts of

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Speaker 1: this stuff in a way that a normal person would

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Speaker 1: not be. And that's what I'm looking for is and

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Speaker 1: have normal conversation about a normal topic, which is the

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Speaker 1: television show Succession, which airs on HBO Max, which now

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Speaker 1: I guess is called Max. Anyhow, Katie's here and we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk to her, so let's get into it. Baker,

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Speaker 1: Is that how you say that?

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Speaker 2: Yep, Katie Baker.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever had anybody mispronounce that just out of curiosity? No?

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Speaker 2: But I had a funny story back when I worked

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Speaker 2: in finance, when I was an intern where you know,

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Speaker 2: my big boss said, Katie, how do you spell your

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Speaker 2: last name? You know, because he didn't know my last name?

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Speaker 2: And I was, right, that's smart, that's smart Baker b

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Speaker 2: A k R. And he was so busted and everyone

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Speaker 2: started making fun of him. You know, I felt cool

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Speaker 2: because then that was that was the whole joke for

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Speaker 2: the rest of the summer.

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Speaker 1: So he used the classic. Yeah, this was like a

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Speaker 1: pickup thing. I think like when I used to go

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Speaker 1: to bars, like if you were talking to somebody you

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Speaker 1: forgot what their name was, you would say something like,

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Speaker 1: your name is so interesting, how do you spell that right?

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Speaker 1: And then it was always like a real problem if

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Speaker 1: their name was like Jill, that's not that Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know what, but that's so funny the idea that it

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Speaker 1: was done in a work contact, and couldn't he have

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Speaker 1: just like looked at your file or something.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm surprised you knew my first name to

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Speaker 2: be able to even ask me.

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Speaker 1: So strange. Where was this? Where was this?

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Speaker 2: This was it Goldman Saxon Company down at one New

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Speaker 2: York Plaza at the time.

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Speaker 1: You worked at Goldman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the first seven years out of college worked at

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Speaker 2: Goldman and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Really, I didn't know this. I didn't know. Okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: you worked at Goldman and then for seven years is

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Speaker 1: that what you're saying? Yeah, okay, and then what happened?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'd say, let's see what year was it that

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Speaker 2: I got a that I finally got a laptop at

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Speaker 2: home and started a tumbler. That was probably in like

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven or something like that or two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: Time. That's a great time to get online. I literally

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Speaker 1: last week we were talking about this. That was when

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Speaker 1: I started blogging at en Gadget was two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: So that was that was a real online time in

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Speaker 1: my recollection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, like, my online story is kind

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Speaker 2: of funny in that it started way back when with

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Speaker 2: e World, which used to come if you bought an

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Speaker 2: Apple computer, you got this. It was like an AOL disc,

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Speaker 2: except in this case it was for the Apple only

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Speaker 2: AOL that they shut down e World, and so I

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Speaker 2: put in the disc. I remember I got my dad's

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Speaker 2: like wallet out of he kept it in the side

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Speaker 2: of his car, you know, and like the side console

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Speaker 2: right in his credit card dialed up on the modem,

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Speaker 2: joined e World, started an account I was probably in

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, sixth grade or something like that, right,

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Speaker 2: And that led to me being like a teen moderator

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Speaker 2: in a chat room on e World, which led to

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Speaker 2: me working for an IRC company called talk City when

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Speaker 2: I was a teen. Oh my god, yeah, wow, it's funny, Like,

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Speaker 2: I know, you're a veteran of Business Week, and they

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Speaker 2: had an article in Business Week at the time about

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Speaker 2: talk City and they took a picture of me, and

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Speaker 2: so anyway, the whole thing was so funny. But then

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Speaker 2: I was kind of like not online for a while,

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Speaker 2: well with some like you know, hockey and Dave Matthews

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Speaker 2: band usenet in between. I always liked computers and the Internet,

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Speaker 2: and I you know, had met people from the Internet

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Speaker 2: when it was really weird to do that. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of moulnerable now. I remember I lived in New York

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Speaker 2: City at the time. I lived really close to Tom

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Speaker 2: and Jerry's bar down in off Houston Street, and that's

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Speaker 2: where a lot of bloggers hung out back in the day.

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Speaker 2: And I remember, you know, I read, I've read a

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Speaker 2: lot of blogs, and so I started a tumbler and

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Speaker 2: I just would would tumble from work at Goldman, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of started writing a little bit while

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Speaker 2: I was still working there, sometimes using pseudonyms, but often

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Speaker 2: just using the fact that my name is so common,

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Speaker 2: even in the New York media world. It's common. But

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Speaker 2: there's another and there's another. Yes, yeah, so anyway, YadA YadA.

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Speaker 2: So like one thing led to another, and I was

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Speaker 2: kind of doing random blogging and Bill Simmons, you know,

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Speaker 2: who was of ESPN at the time, read something that

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Speaker 2: I wrote on the site media which gives you place

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Speaker 2: as I was writing for Yes.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know all this. This is so good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's how I got, you know, into that job.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Tumblr at the time was like my

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Speaker 2: big outlet. And then I started meeting people in person,

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Speaker 2: often at Tom and Jerry's, you know, in the New

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Speaker 2: York blogging scene, and that was a really just fun

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Speaker 2: moment for me where I really realized that, you know,

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Speaker 2: you start to kind of meet your people. And I

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Speaker 2: remember I would go back to work at Goldman and

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Speaker 2: feel frustrated because no one knew what the New York

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Speaker 2: Observer was. It's like, you know, but but you know,

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Speaker 2: but I'd beel like, you should know what that is?

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Speaker 2: You know, you're it's part of the culture in the

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Speaker 2: city in which you live.

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Speaker 1: So that's so interesting. So this was so you're saying

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Speaker 1: you were at Goldman. You're saying you started doing the

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Speaker 1: tumbler around two thousand and seven and two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: is that correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think what year would have been

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Speaker 2: to probably twousan and eight. It was right around the

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Speaker 2: like when the financial crash was like in the midst

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Speaker 2: of happening. So it was just a crazy time to

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Speaker 2: be watching that unfold while also going on Tumblr and

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Speaker 2: seeing you know, sad photos of traders at tumblr dot

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Speaker 2: com and sort of it all happening at the same time.

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Speaker 1: People don't remember this era. I mean, this is like

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Speaker 1: Katie Natopolis, my sister in law, had a tumblr. I

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Speaker 1: want to say it was a tumbler. Sorry I missed

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Speaker 1: your party, which was like really weird, bad, like people

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Speaker 1: posted horrible photos of like weird shit going on at

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Speaker 1: their parties. And I don't know if you remember that, but.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was like a thing that.

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Speaker 1: Whole like electroclash, like New York people who had like

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Speaker 1: turned into like last Night's party or whatever, which was

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Speaker 1: like the Cobra snake or whatever. That was the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: but media meshing. But then there were all these tumblers

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Speaker 1: that people just make like I had one. I had

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Speaker 1: one called Bag of Bags, which was just patures of

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Speaker 1: bags that I liked, and then like like you know,

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Speaker 1: like shoulder bags. I also had one called I think

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Speaker 1: it was Guilt Models tumbler dot co. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: Guilt the service Guilt I do.

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Speaker 2: I've made many a transaction on that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well Guilt Guilt had really depressed looking models. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember, but they had like very unhappy

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Speaker 1: looking models, and so I just started like I would

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Speaker 1: just pull the people who looked most unhappy, and I

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Speaker 1: would just post, it's still there somewhere.

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Speaker 2: I think, like, yeah, they're all They're all there somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, so you were a nerdy kid. You got

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Speaker 1: online using something called eWorld, which I honestly I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to search my brain bank here to figure out if

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Speaker 1: I can even remember what E World was. I'm getting nothing,

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Speaker 1: so like it was.

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Speaker 2: I think it was a brief flash in the pan.

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Speaker 2: It came bundled with an apple, like I when I

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Speaker 2: finally got my parents to get me my first computer

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Speaker 2: of my own. Yeah that wasn't just the kind of

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Speaker 2: DOS computer that my dad got from work that he

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Speaker 2: never touched once in his life. Oh wow, So I

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Speaker 2: got my own, like, you know, I think it was

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Speaker 2: some sort of power PC desktop computer.

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Speaker 1: It was a Macintosh.

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Speaker 2: It was a mac And this was kind of in

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Speaker 2: the still in the first Steve Jobs era, like I

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Speaker 2: went to like I went to Macworld a few times.

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Speaker 2: I mean I was I was in I was in

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Speaker 2: deep like as a young tween.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it's so interesting we have It's interesting because your

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Speaker 1: story is so familiar to me, but only because of

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Speaker 1: my experience. I was online really young. My dad took

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Speaker 1: me to CES when it was in Chicago. I was

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Speaker 1: probably twelve years old, because I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: where all the game stuff is and where all the

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Speaker 1: computers are or whatever, and you know, just super nerdy.

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Speaker 1: But that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: First of all, like, props to parents who bring their

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Speaker 2: kids to these weird places and understand that they there's

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Speaker 2: a reason they're asking to go. May I may I

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Speaker 2: have that spirit with my kids, you know, continue to

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Speaker 2: have those seriously. Okay, so E World was very friendly.

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Speaker 2: It was sort of the anti AOL.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm looking at the Wikipedia entry now, just yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: It's a great graphics. It was this little a little

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Speaker 2: mail truck and it would say yeah mail wow, and

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Speaker 2: you go to these different little houses that were different,

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Speaker 2: Like there was like an arts pavilion and that's where

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Speaker 2: you go to the movie chat rooms or the movie.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was like it was like AOL like graphical boards

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Speaker 2: of things and pictures that took forever to load.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm just looking at it now. It's like,

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Speaker 1: welcome to e World. There's a little guy who's or

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Speaker 1: a person who's like talking to you. There's an arts

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Speaker 1: and leisure pavilion, learning center. So it was like yeah, online,

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Speaker 1: but not online.

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Speaker 2: Basically, it was it was like, yeah, there was so

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Speaker 2: in a later version of your world that you can't

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Speaker 2: see in this picture. It was the same interface except

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Speaker 2: basically next to the mail truck there was a little

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Speaker 2: off ramp to like the Information super Highway, and that's

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Speaker 2: when you could go on like the unfiltered Worldwide Web.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, like I got in these chat rooms,

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Speaker 2: but then they closed it down like Apple, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: it wasn't profitable in any way. Or whatever it was,

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Speaker 2: So I remember it so clearly, like I thought, I've

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Speaker 2: thought about this a little bit with Twitter sort of

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Speaker 2: being in a weird twilight phase, but I mean they

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Speaker 2: literally pulled the plug one night at like midnight Pacific time,

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Speaker 2: and so everyone.

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Speaker 1: Did everybody know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone knew, and we were all up in the

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Speaker 2: chat room, like I was on the East coast. So

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Speaker 2: I remember, I think, I don't think I could stay

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Speaker 2: up all the way, but we might have done like

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Speaker 2: a fox goodbye at midnight, but I think I stayed

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Speaker 2: up or I was set an alarm and woke up

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Speaker 2: and was kind of there for like the final It

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Speaker 2: was just like a lot of people being like goodbye forever, right,

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Speaker 2: and then it just like a little window appeared that

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Speaker 2: said like goodbye, like thank you, like it. And it's

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Speaker 2: a really crazy kind of experience to have gone through.

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Speaker 1: God, first off, such a vivid and depressing scene you've

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Speaker 1: set like where the services everybody's there waiting. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the end of the world, right like were

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Speaker 1: you're waiting for the for the asteroid to hit and

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Speaker 1: you're kind of like everybody's holding hands or i'man drinking

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Speaker 1: I don't know what people would be doing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and you don't know like what's going to

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Speaker 2: actually happen at the moment, What if there's a what

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Speaker 2: if there was a it doesn't go or whatever that

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Speaker 2: has happened.

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Speaker 1: I think we're like things just kind of hobble on,

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Speaker 1: you know, indefinitely.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So you said you were working in Goldman and said,

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Speaker 1: this is going way back to the stuff we were

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Speaker 1: just talking about. But you were working in Goldman. You

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Speaker 1: had been there for seven years? Is that correct? Is

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Speaker 1: that number accurate? You started like doing a tumbler, that's right, yep.

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Speaker 1: And at what point did you go from like I'm

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Speaker 1: doing a tumbler on the internet too, Like now I'm

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Speaker 1: writing something for a blog or for like a publication,

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Speaker 1: Like what was that transition for you?

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Speaker 2: I think the first paid work I did was for Mediaite,

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Speaker 2: and I remember it was if I wrote seven articles,

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Speaker 2: they would pay me five hundred dollars. But I had

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Speaker 2: to do the seven articles first. And then I was

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Speaker 2: writing for Gawker. I was doing a New York Times

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Speaker 2: wedding Like I wasn't the first person to have done

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Speaker 2: the column in which they called altercations, but I sort

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Speaker 2: of took over the mantle of it, and was you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of rating New York Times wedding announcement and.

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Speaker 1: So were you like trashing wedding announcement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know we're reading them. I liked to think

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Speaker 2: of it as celebrating the absurdities. But yeah, for sure

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Speaker 2: it was like that, right, that early aughts snark.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's like classic Goker. I mean the wedding announcements

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Speaker 1: were like in the New York Times are always like

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Speaker 1: the people are not normal, and like, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: either like fabulously wealthy or have some really insane jobs.

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Speaker 1: It's very rarely.

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Speaker 2: It's always been punching down, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: No where it's like he's a garbage man and she

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Speaker 1: worked retail. Like that's not you don't read about those

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times. Like nuptials or whatever. They're

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Speaker 1: always like he's a vagabond software developer and she's an

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Speaker 1: heir to the to this like chicken fortune or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then you know they got married.

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Speaker 2: Exactly like a lot of Mayflower Society references. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: so many people that have the grandmother's house in Maine

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Speaker 2: where they get married, and.

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Speaker 1: Right, all these people have a comment, no offense, but

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Speaker 1: the rich or whatever. I mean. Okay, so it was

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Speaker 1: Mediaite and then Gonker, did you remember the first thing

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Speaker 1: you wrote, like the first article? Man?

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Speaker 2: I remember I wrote a few things for a blog

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Speaker 2: called Young Manhattan Nite. One was about like the US

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Speaker 2: Open I went to the US Open. And another was

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Speaker 2: about you know, not using any real names, but a

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Speaker 2: little bit about like Lehman Brothers collapsing and sort of

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Speaker 2: the experience of some of my friends. You did some

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Speaker 2: like reporting, no, not even it was like one guy

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Speaker 2: that I'll call Peter said da da da, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and they were real quotes, but it wasn't you know,

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Speaker 2: I hadn't gone out and talked to them. It was

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Speaker 2: just relaying conversations, right. It was like a little bloggy essay. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I remember that being like a big thing that

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Speaker 2: like when I wrote that, like a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: you know, people in the New York blog scene read it.

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Speaker 1: And oh yeah, no, that sounds like really juicy shit,

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Speaker 1: like you know, that's the kind of stuff where it

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Speaker 1: was like, what is this right? Is this journalism? Is

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Speaker 1: it like hearsay? Is it you know, is it defamatory

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Speaker 1: or whatever? You know, it's like nobody really knew what

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Speaker 1: it was because it was just something that was like

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Speaker 1: it's part diary, it's part like somebody's like thoughts, it's

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Speaker 1: part reporting. It's you know, like what an amazing time.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Like I was writing about kind of like ESPN

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Speaker 2: personalities or I remember there was like a some kind

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Speaker 2: of Serena Williams scandal at the time where she had

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Speaker 2: you know, told like a ball a ball woman she

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Speaker 2: was going to like shove the ball down her throat

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Speaker 2: in a moment of anger or whatever it was. So

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Speaker 2: I was writing I would write a piece about how

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Speaker 2: ESPN covered that, you know, just kind of right whatever

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Speaker 2: it was. And so yeah, I wrote, I wrote a

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Speaker 2: few things like that, and that was what got the

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Speaker 2: attention of Bill Simmons, who's you know, kind of my

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Speaker 2: boss now and.

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Speaker 1: Kind of your boss. I haven't met that many people,

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Speaker 1: or maybe I haven't talked to that many people who've

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Speaker 1: had such a similar experience where you were so online,

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Speaker 1: so young, and you were doing things that were not

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Speaker 1: even really online, not the internet the way it is now,

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Speaker 1: And it's just interesting to hear because you did a

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Speaker 1: similar thing that I did, where you had a job

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Speaker 1: that you were doing, that you'd done for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and then you were like, no, I'm going to blog,

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Speaker 1: which is an interesting move. Like I don't know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that did it, but there are a

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Speaker 1: handful of people that did it. You had a real job,

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Speaker 1: though My job was like making music and chasing people

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Speaker 1: for money. Your job was like.

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Speaker 2: At Goldman chasing people for money.

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Speaker 1: Though, well sure, but like they're much more successful than

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Speaker 1: I was. I can tell you that we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about Succession, that the HBO TV show and not HBO,

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Speaker 1: I guess I call that anymore the Max TV show

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Speaker 1: about a media family. And we're probably going to have spoilers.

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Speaker 1: So if you haven't caught up to Succession, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: turn this off, but I would just really quickly watch

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Speaker 1: all those episodes and then turn this back on. So anyhow,

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Speaker 1: you you recently read about the Old People in Succession

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Speaker 1: and that that was based round episode four.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so episode four has a lot of great

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Speaker 2: wrangling between you know what they call the quote, the

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Speaker 2: Old Guard, the Gray Beards, the ember are penguins, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Emperor penguins, the you know, the inner circle of Logan,

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Speaker 2: the intercorporate, but also because Logan had no real life

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Speaker 2: outside the corporation, also his maybe the closest things he

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Speaker 2: had to personal friends too, in a twisted.

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Speaker 1: Them in The Bodyguard.

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Speaker 2: There's so many things all about succession, but one of

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Speaker 2: them is that next layer around the family, and just

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Speaker 2: all these people who you know are are important to

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Speaker 2: the family, because there's a layer beyond them of people

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Speaker 2: who are probably big deals in their worlds. You know,

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Speaker 2: the investment bankers, all the people that write the hundred

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Speaker 2: or whatever. You know, it's supposed to be happening there.

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Speaker 1: It's the hundred, that's that's their startup.

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Speaker 2: Right their startup. You don't even see those people. You

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Speaker 2: see them in the smallest glimpses, and.

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Speaker 1: So they show a lot of the heads. Actually I've

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Speaker 1: noticed of some of those people where they barely even

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Speaker 1: acknowledge there, and I think that's probably purposeful.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so, you know, I've always loved those characters,

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Speaker 2: and I've written before about some of the women in

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Speaker 2: Succession and Jerry being one of them, and she's always

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Speaker 2: just been such an interesting character in terms of her

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Speaker 2: you know, succession doesn't tell you that much about people's backgrounds,

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00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 2: but they drop little nuggets here and there, and so, yeah,

385
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Speaker 2: you learn that she's known Logan for so long, and

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Speaker 2: her kids wonder if they've you know, ever been romantically involved,

387
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Speaker 2: and I don't think we will ever know the answer

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Speaker 2: to that. But yeah, So it was after episode four

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Speaker 2: that I spoke with some of them, you know, with

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Speaker 2: the actors who play Carl and Frank, and you know,

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Speaker 2: just about what it's like to be in that role

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Speaker 2: of you know, you're kind of managing up you're but

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Speaker 2: you're also managing a lot of shit all the time.

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Speaker 2: What keeps them there in their minds? Like is it

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Speaker 2: the money or is it the proximity to power?

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Speaker 1: And right?

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, so it was really fun to talk to them.

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Speaker 2: And you know, one thing that stuck out to me

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Speaker 2: is that those actors, as many people in succession do,

400
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 2: have such a like rich theater background, and it's kind

401
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 2: of made me watch the show a little bit like

402
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 2: like it's this play and it's been fun since I

403
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Speaker 2: spoke to them to watch it, you know in that context.

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00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: Right, it's actually I mean it's funny that hearing you

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00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,119
Speaker 1: say that now makes me realize how many scenes on

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00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 1: that show are like, yes, people are traveling to in

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00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: from places, but like they are ultimately are often sort

408
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 1: of almost trapped in places. Right. There's like I can't

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00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,360
Speaker 1: remember what season is when when Logan is like sick

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Speaker 1: and he's supposed to give some big speech at like

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Speaker 1: an investor conference or whatever, and they're like can he

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Speaker 1: go on? Like is he with it? Like he was

413
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: like mentally out of it, but they're like basically trapped

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Speaker 1: in the building, right, like everybody's there and trying to

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Speaker 1: like solve it. Like the episode from This Sunday, which

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, well, I'll just say this, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think the latest episode it was the first time

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Speaker 1: that I kind of I would say I warmed up

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Speaker 1: to the show. It took me a while to really

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Speaker 1: warm up to it, and I do believe, like I

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Speaker 1: have a I think it's tough because where you know,

422
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Speaker 1: my viewpoint on a lot of it is like I'm

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Speaker 1: so close to people that are like these people not

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Speaker 1: like close like I like them or we're buddies. But

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Speaker 1: I have spent so many I've spent so much time

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Speaker 1: in rooms with people like those people, or at least

427
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 1: adjacent to those people that Like it's tough because it's

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Speaker 1: like very realistic, but it's also like, okay, like I

429
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Speaker 1: know what they're doing, you know. It's like sometimes you're

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Speaker 1: kind of like, I know what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the episode this past Sunday, which was perhaps I

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Speaker 1: would say one of the top five most uncomfortable TV

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Speaker 1: viewing experiences I've had, like ever, and uh, and I've

435
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: watched a lot of Curb Your Enthusiasm, so I think,

436
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: like that's saying something made me feel like I would

437
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: like to watch like another five years of Succession. Like

438
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: it was the first time that I think I was like,

439
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: I don't want the show. I mean, I'm not ready

440
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 1: for this show to not be doing this, Like, and

441
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 1: there is something that's interesting to to happen, like following

442
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 1: again spoiler alert, the death of Logan that obviously this

443
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 1: is on purpose and obviously they're leading to a conclusion

444
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: because this is the final season, right, this is really

445
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: going to be the final season. Do we think there's

446
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: any chance there?

447
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 2: No, I think I think i'd be surprised if if

448
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 2: they were, if this is a big fake out. Sadly, Yeah,

449
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: they had always said the like for a long time,

450
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 2: they said they had five in mind and so I

451
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 2: was like, all right, this is the penultimate season. That's great, right.

452
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: So I was taken aback because I really thought they

453
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 2: would do the five. But I guess, yeah, you know, yeah,

454
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 2: it's sad.

455
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: But this episode, it was so full of just the

456
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: worst of the characters and also in some way the

457
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: best of them. And but you got to see the

458
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: Emperor Penguins as they're described or whatever. You got to

459
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 1: see the kind of older characters. They're much more unbridled

460
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 1: in that episode, and they're like to the point where

461
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: it was so interesting. There's an interaction that Kendall has

462
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: with Carl, who I didn't actually, for some reason, never

463
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: I never really fully understood what their roles were. There's

464
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: actually like a little bit of like a lack of

465
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: clarity about what they do. For a lot of the show.

466
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he's the CFO, okay, And it

467
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 1: made me think a lot about like CFOs I've known

468
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: and he there's something about the way he plays that

469
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: character that is so CFO, like if you've met you know,

470
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: and this is both like an insult and and and

471
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: a sort of prop to that to him as an

472
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: actor into CFOs. Generally, there's just a vibe that CFOs

473
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: have and one of the things I've actually struggled with it.

474
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know if you what your take on

475
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 1: this is is like, do normal people watch Succession like

476
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: I've had for a little bit of I know, I've

477
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: talked for a while. I'm gonna let you get in here,

478
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: but I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that

479
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: the only people who really are invested in Succession are

480
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: media people. And because we decide what's going on the

481
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: blogs and in the papers and in the magazines, like,

482
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: we have over indexed tremendously on the importance of Succession

483
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: as a TV show. What is your what is your

484
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: what does your take on that?

485
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 2: Well? I think you know, the classic comparison that people

486
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: have made lately is, you know, when you compare the

487
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,120
Speaker 2: viewership of Succession to like Yellowstone, which is kind of

488
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 2: of you know, yeah, Succession out West and and a

489
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: lot like Dummer. And I say that as someone that's

490
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: that's seen all the Yellowstones and all the spinoffs and

491
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: is it good? Yes? But now no?

492
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, my septic guy yesterday, I'm the guy. We

493
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: have a guy comes up because we have a septic

494
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: tank here to make sure we are sept tank isn't

495
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: getting getting blow up on us. He literally was like

496
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: talking to me about Yellowstone, like and I was like, Oh,

497
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: I've never seen it.

498
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 2: You know, the most recent season is absurd, but it

499
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: you should watch it. It's really good. It's really silly.

500
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: And if you start to if you do watch it

501
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,719
Speaker 2: and you start to like tally up the family's you know,

502
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 2: death count and body count of like or just all

503
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 2: the weird things that you're like, how would this actually

504
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: happen in the world, Whereas I do think succession does

505
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: give sort of real world consequences to things, even when

506
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: those consequences are a little like absurdist or like.

507
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: Not right rich people consequences, Yeah, exactly.

508
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: But anyway, like the Yellowstone spinoffs are really good, by

509
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: the way, and I really don't think you need to

510
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 2: have seen Yellowstone to watch them. They're called eighteen eighty

511
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: three and nineteen twenty three.

512
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, somebody really, somebody really great is in one

513
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: of those. I would like, I want to say, it's

514
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: like Harrison Ford or something is in one of these.

515
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: Is that Kristen He's in nineteen twenty three? Eighteen eighty

516
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: three is strangely Faith Hill and Tim McGraw, but it works.

517
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: God, this is like so American. What you're describing is like, yeah,

518
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: the ultimately it's like the show's Yellowstone. I think Kevin

519
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: Costners is he in the main one? Yeah? Okay, maybe

520
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 1: he's dead. I don't know.

521
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: I mean I got I got for my for Christmas.

522
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: I got my dad the Blu ray set complete set

523
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: of Yellowstone. And I don't think eighteen eighty three was

524
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: out yet, so that'll be. That'll be next Christmas. And

525
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: sometimes I get them these things, and I don't know

526
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: if he ever really watches them or you know, and

527
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: he like he and my mom watched every episode like

528
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: every day. We're fell asleep to it, Like oh my god,

529
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: keep asking me what the like when they can watch

530
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 2: the new season?

531
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: So wow, okay, interesting.

532
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: I think they would like fall asleep during succession. Like honestly,

533
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: I think, if you sure, I get it. And I

534
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: find that I love watching every episode the second time,

535
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: like I love watching them the first time too, But man,

536
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: that second watch, you're just like you notice so many things,

537
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: you know, But it's like, should someone have to watch

538
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 2: a show twice? To appreciate it, sure, but I think

539
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: that I think that not everyone will. And you know,

540
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 2: you kind of always hear from people that try to

541
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: watch it from the beginning. You know, it can be

542
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: slow to get into, you know, I know a lot

543
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: of people don't really love like the first few episodes.

544
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I liked it from the start, but I

545
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: remember when I first started writing about it in the

546
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: first season, it was kind of like people didn't know

547
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: what to make of it or understand what it was

548
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: trying to do. I think a lot more people do now, right,

549
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 2: And you know, when you watch it, like with that

550
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: in mind, it's it's great. But if you're going into

551
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: it thinking it's going to be either really overtly funny

552
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: or really dramatic and soapy, like you're not going to

553
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: find and either one in the way that you're expecting.

554
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: I guess.

555
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there are some dramatic moments, some dramatic beats,

556
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: certainly in some of the seasons, but like it is

557
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: a show of micro aggressions. It's like kind of the

558
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like the things that happen

559
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: that are I mean, Shiv, who is the actress that

560
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: plays her name I'm blank, amare Yeah, Sarah Snook, who

561
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: is just like one of the most expressive actors and

562
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: so has done so much with so like with so little,

563
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: such like these little tiny expressions. Like in fact, there's

564
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: some scenes with her and her husband Tom, who is

565
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: played by the actor another British actor.

566
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: What is his name, I'm blank, I'm kindly gonna mispronounce

567
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: it. It is like Matthew McFadyen. I think, sure, why not,

568
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm such one of those people that reads and writes

569
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: and can never pronounce names.

570
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, all the time, I'm like, oh right, these

571
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 1: people are not like these American these totally American characters.

572
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: They are so perfect to playing. But there's just like

573
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: so much going on between them. But it is nothing

574
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: like in the grand scheme of like TV drama or whatever,

575
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: or just drama generally. It's so so subtle. But that's

576
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: what I'm asking, is like I think like the show

577
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: feels like I feel like everybody talks about it that

578
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: I know, and I feel like it's been written about

579
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: a ton and like Jeremy Strong is this character he's

580
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: like become this meme because he's like a method actor

581
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: and everybody thinks that's hilarious, which you know, I think

582
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 1: it probably is. But like, what is the viewership of Succession? Like, well,

583
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: I know they.

584
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: Recently had I think this season, let's see, it's like

585
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 2: two million or something, setting record. Yeah exactly, it's like

586
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: in oh actually, oh whoa, this is actually like way

587
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 2: more than I thought. It's now averaging eight point four million.

588
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: Okay.

589
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: I feel like it was originally like way lower than that.

590
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: I'm from one point two or something like.

591
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, this says season four premiere of Succession was up

592
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: sixty two percent compared to season three.

593
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: Wow.

594
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, season three premiere viewership was one point four million. Yeah,

595
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: so it's kind of that's that's actually really interesting. I

596
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: wouldn't That's not something I would have like expected. It

597
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: kind of shows how much is like created the culture

598
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: that like now people are probably watching because everyone's talking

599
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: about it and they're like right.

600
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: No, there you go. But you see that's the media

601
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: once again, the media's narrative pushing you know, people towards

602
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: a story that maybe wasn't a story to begin with.

603
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I also think it's a show that's

604
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: fun to watch in the context of like, you know,

605
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: it's not about any certain family. There are obviously lots

606
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: of influences about many families that we've heard of, and

607
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: so it's fun when you you know, recently there was

608
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: that big Rupert Murdoch Gabriel Sherman peace about kind of

609
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: just what's what's the latest in his life, and you

610
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: know some of his relationships with you know, women ranging

611
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: from Jerry Hall to this you know, dental hygienicist who

612
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: thinks Tucker Carlson is somehow the Messiah. And so when

613
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: you start to see that and then you start to

614
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: kind of put these things together, you realize that, like, yeah,

615
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: this show is weird, and all these people are you know,

616
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: on the surface bad, but like that's baby, and it's

617
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: you know, I love the character of Roman Roy and

618
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: I love Karen Culkin, and I'm like, oh, Roman, he

619
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: you know, he's poor guy. Here's a there's a good

620
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: guy in there somewhere trying to come out. And then

621
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: they show him on that studio Hollywood golf cart and

622
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: just hit looking at the people and with this look

623
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: on his face, like with utter disdain, and you just

624
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,239
Speaker 2: realize that's the asshole that goes through the set and

625
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 2: is mean to everyone and those are the same person

626
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: and I love that tension, but some people hate that discomfort,

627
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: like you mentioned this right, so it was like very

628
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: cringe but very.

629
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: Good, like well, one of the problems with the show

630
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: that I think for for like people to get I

631
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: mean not problems, but one of the challenges. And again

632
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: I sort of took me a while to warm up

633
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: to it. I would say this season is by by

634
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: far my most enjoyable watch, but I think that you know,

635
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: the characters are detestable. There's not a likable character, to

636
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: be honest, I mean there's they have likable qualities. There

637
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: are moments of extreme likability, like the character of Roman

638
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: Roy played by Karen Culkin, as you mentioned, is super

639
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: funny and also in very endearing in parts like but

640
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: ultimately is a callous, horrible, shitty person with who is

641
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: really pretty dumb and like That's I think one of

642
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: the things of this season that I've enjoyed is this

643
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: kind of exploration of how sort of inexperienced and stupid

644
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: the kids of the family are, and just how so

645
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: out of their depth they are in so many of

646
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: their whether it's interpersonal relationships or professional relationships or ideas

647
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: about you know, who they are and what they're supposed

648
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: to be doing. Like it's I think there is. It

649
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: seems to me like the writers have taken a bit

650
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: of joy in like exposing the emptiness of these characters,

651
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: because like, you know, these these people are so present

652
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: in our lives and in our minds, like they're so

653
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: they occupy so much, they suck up so much air

654
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: and have I mean, Rupert Murdock as an example, has

655
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: like altered the shape of politics. Not just an American

656
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: by Baker in the world, I mean like globally. His

657
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: power to wield the media as a weapon is you know,

658
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of like demonic, Like it's pretty crazy. And

659
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: so there's something that's really intriguing about trying to understand

660
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: or get a glimpse inside of, like what their lives are.

661
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: Like Yeah, but again, like I think, like a big

662
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what Yellowstone is, Like I haven't seen it.

663
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 1: My guess is there are pretty likable characters, and some

664
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: of the characters must be pretty likable, like it can't

665
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: all be back. But yeah, okay, okay, I gotta watch it,

666
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: But like I don't know, this is a show where

667
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: where you know, it's hard to you know, I'm not

668
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: rooting for anybody. I kind of like, I'm like, I

669
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: hope they all fail. Like that's my my overarching feeling

670
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: of it is not like, boy, I hope Kendall pulls

671
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: this off. It's like, you know, I'm like it's hard

672
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: to watch, but like I don't want him to win. Basically,

673
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, we're all projecting something you know about reality.

674
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting to me is like when I worked

675
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: at Goldman, I was in wealth management, and there's been

676
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: these studies done in the in the field where they

677
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: talk about how when you have a you know, big,

678
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: big source of wealth, it doesn't take very many generations

679
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: to like really fuck that up, you know, basically takes

680
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: like two generations by the time you get to the

681
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: grandchildren where really you know, they just don't have that connection. Yeah,

682
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: like it's faster than you'd think beyond. But I just

683
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: remember working with people where we would refer to them

684
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: as the children. We'd say, oh, well we're having a

685
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: meeting with the children today, and then the children would

686
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: come in and they'd be like fifty years old, and

687
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I was like assuming that they were not.

688
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: You know, this is when I was in my twenties,

689
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: and like these are like grown adults, but and yet

690
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: they're the children to all these institutions that have sort

691
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: of already been involved with like their father and that wealth.

692
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 2: And you don't want to always believe in these like

693
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: birth word or things or whatever the you know, but

694
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: there is always a lot of these. If you have

695
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: enough kids, like one of them is going to be

696
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: a hippie. And if you have enough kids, one of

697
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: them is going to like really want to go into

698
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: the father of the mother's footsteps in a way that

699
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: maybe becomes pathological or you know whatever.

700
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: It is right right now? Yeah, yeah, I mean so

701
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: much of the show is like is like adults acting

702
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: like babies and yeah.

703
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: And you know a line that I just always come

704
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: back to, I think from like the first season is

705
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: Marcia says to Shive, like your father built you a

706
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: playground and you think it's the world. And it's kind

707
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 2: of interesting because so much of that, like you were

708
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: saying in succession, like they go to these amazing places

709
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: and then they never leave like the hotel or the

710
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: yacht dining room or whatever it is, right and it

711
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: doesn't look very fun, and I always wonder, like, you know,

712
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: Shive doesn't have any friends, Like you know, none of

713
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 2: these people have like these real support structures almost and

714
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: so that's why you know they they turn to, you know,

715
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: the closest thing they have is like you know, Frank,

716
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: who is also actively trying to you know, caring about this,

717
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: the shareholders and that sort of thing.

718
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's definitely like, you know,

719
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: if they were sympathetic characters, I would say, like I

720
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: feel bad for them because they seem isolated. But I

721
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: feel I maybe I'm being cruel in my sort of

722
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: estimation of the family. But like I think about those

723
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: characters and I think about the real people, I'm like,

724
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: you have so much wealth, you have so much opportunity.

725
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: There are so many things a person could do. Like

726
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: I think a lot of what like kind of has

727
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: driven the drama between the father and the kids is

728
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: like he wasn't, as far as I can tell, did

729
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: not come from wealth. I think his backstory is that

730
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: like he's sort of a he is actually like a

731
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: self made man, like a person who kind of fought

732
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: for everything he had or whatever. And the kids who've

733
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: just been handed it, and it's like, well, you have

734
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: all this opportunity and all this wealth, and like what

735
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: you do with it is like amounts to almost nothing,

736
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: Like you don't have an idea, you don't have like

737
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: an impulse. It's all just like kind of surface. They

738
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: do seem very isolated, and they are in these very

739
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: isolated situations, which I kind of to me, there's always

740
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: remind me of a horror film, like I always think

741
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: of like a lot of the places they're in, like

742
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: when they went to the retreat Matson's like retreat that's

743
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: a very horror film setting, like inside of offices, trapped

744
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: inside of offices, very horrific, you know, like hotels kind of

745
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: a horrific vibe to them sometimes.

746
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: And I did love what you talked about, like when

747
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: they were at one of the shareholder meetings, I think

748
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 2: the one where Logan goes like quote piss mad.

749
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you know.

750
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: I loved like as anyone that's ever been to like

751
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: a you know, a Macworld or a CS them sort

752
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: of half running through these long corridors at these expo

753
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: centers where you know, to get from place you.

754
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: Can pay you know, you know what the carpet feels

755
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: like like you know, like you know how the floor

756
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: vibrates like in those places. I guess like as a

757
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: person who's you know, covered these things and gone to

758
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: them and been a part of them and whatever, like,

759
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I understand those environments in a way that when I

760
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: see it, I mean again, that's like I think watching

761
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: it from me and a lot of people in media,

762
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: it is different than if you're just a regular person.

763
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: I like hotels, I like hotel bars. I think there's

764
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: something like very enjoyable about them. But it is like

765
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: a very very specific kind of anonymousness that can exist

766
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: there that this like weird like all these people from

767
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: all these different places and like you kind of like, yeah,

768
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: nothing there is permanent. It's like this very strange sort

769
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: of you know what would have been referred to as a.

770
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: Temporary national waters.

771
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this concept of the temporary autonomous zone, which

772
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the writer who sort of coined it.

773
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: But it's like airports and hotels and these places where

774
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: they have their own rules, they have their own like

775
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: all the people that are gathered but not for like

776
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: to be in that place, but usually like to go

777
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: between some other from there to some other place and anyhow.

778
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: But like, but that's the show. It lives in a

779
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: lot of those spaces that are maybe I'm getting too

780
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: philosophical on it, but like I think you know about it,

781
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: but no.

782
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: I totally agree. I mean it's like, you know, even

783
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: when they were just in la you know, and this

784
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: is the classic alley experience, but they're just like in

785
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: a car for so much of it. If they're not right,

786
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: you know, you're in a room and then you go

787
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: from the room to the car and then from the

788
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 2: car to the next room with all the same people

789
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: in each place.

790
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to me. There is like just a

791
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: there's a dread, a feeling of dread that had over

792
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: the whole thing, and that I think this season and

793
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: obvious for obvious reasons, perhaps like it has come forward

794
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: more in a way that makes me feel engaged and

795
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: excited about it. There are some plot points that are

796
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: brewing that have yet to be really brought to the

797
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: surface that I think are you know, as far as

798
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: the drama goes, Like I make this joke every time

799
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: Shiv and Tom are in a scene, I'm like, ah,

800
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: the greatest romance of our time Shiv and Tom like

801
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: because there is like an enormous amount of attention paid

802
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: to their relationship and its struggles and their defeats and

803
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: sort of you know, the possibility of reconciliation, and yet

804
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: like they're again very unlikable characters that don't even seem

805
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: to like each other, and you're sort of like, this

806
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: is not a great romance, but it is an interesting

807
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: one at the very least. But yeah, you know, Shiv

808
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: is again spoiler alert, for the love of God, spoiler alert,

809
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: Shive is it last we heard?

810
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: I think pregnant, we believe, So, yeah.

811
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: It hasn't come back up. And since the episode of

812
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: like the Wake or whatever, I guess like the day

813
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: after her dad died, I think is when that was

814
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: supposed to have taken place.

815
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they talk about scheduling like the you know, the

816
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 2: twenty week scan, so she's kind of still in that

817
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 2: like fifteen weekish probably area.

818
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: And just to be clear, in this season, I was

819
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: a little confused, but these episodes are moving like almost

820
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: day to day, like they're not there's not a huge

821
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: amount of time that's gone on, right, Like, he dies

822
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: and then the next episode they're flying to Sweden or

823
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: wherever they're going, and that's like the next day, right,

824
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: like literally or close to the day after.

825
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like at one point, it like people were kind

826
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: of wondering if it was going to be each episode

827
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 2: was basically a day, and I think like that's gotten

828
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 2: a little like just given the travel times between some

829
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: of these continents, you know, I think there might be

830
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: a little bit of fudging, but it does seem like

831
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 2: they're from what we can see so far, they've really

832
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: been kind of putting all this stuff in a really

833
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: compressed period of time. And I think, what the election

834
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 2: is a few days away or whatever, right.

835
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: And they keep talking about the election and yeah, nothing

836
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: has happened, So it's like, yeah.

837
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that. I mean my understanding is,

838
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, and we still haven't even had Logan's funeral,

839
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: which I assume will be the setting of something.

840
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: Right.

841
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: You see the prediction here we are prediction. Yeah, this

842
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: is all a prediction. I haven't I haven't seen in

843
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: the head.

844
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so we have four more episodes left, Yeah,

845
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: many unresolved. What do you think where are going to?

846
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: What are gonna be the big points that we see?

847
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: Have any any character development, any arcs, any moments that

848
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: you predict.

849
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: You know, I always think about like what Jesse Armstrong,

850
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: the showrunner, talks about, how you know, his decision on

851
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: when or whether to have Logan die, And it does

852
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: seem like the kind of thing that a lesser show

853
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 2: would have done in you know, the second to last

854
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: episode or something like that, or you know, right at

855
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: the end and that's the end or whatever, right, And

856
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: so I love the fact that they did it pretty

857
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: early on. To me, I just am trying to think,

858
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: like put myself in Jesse Armstrong's head, like what is

859
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: he trying to what story is he trying to tell

860
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: about this, because he's always been obsessed with the idea

861
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: of what happens when you have this big thing, what's

862
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: the succession that that happens, and how does it play out?

863
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: So I don't know. For me, I don't think this

864
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: is like necessarily going to be the big thing, but

865
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 2: like it would be realistic to have you know, this

866
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: company that's the heart and soul of its family, for

867
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: better and worse, mostly worse probably you know, be purchased

868
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: and kind of like sold for parts and assets, you know,

869
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: spun off and like cause that's kind of sometimes what

870
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: happens in the real world, and that's capitalism and it's

871
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: not very exciting, but right, I sometimes wonder if there's

872
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: going to be that just sort of dismantling element, Like

873
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: on a personal level. There is an interesting shot that

874
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: a lot of people have picked up on. You know,

875
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: people pick up on all sorts of things. I don't

876
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: think it necessarily means anything more, but when Kendall takes

877
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: Shiv's seat and she has to sit in another chair

878
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: at the table, they have a shot where she's shot

879
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: from behind, kind of like in the Logan Roy shot

880
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: in the opening credits where he's at the table behind.

881
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 2: So a lot of people are like, ooh, Kendall took

882
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 2: her spot, but as a result, she ended up in

883
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: that seat. Maybe that's a sign.

884
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: Okay's kind of thinking about.

885
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: That ever since. But that's I'm stealing from Reddit theories there,

886
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: like very blatantly.

887
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know enough about Jesse Armstrong. Just

888
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: is he the kind of you know, creator who would

889
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: put that kind of easter egg in there? Like has

890
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: that happened before? Like I don't know, is that like

891
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: that feels like a not a stretch but no, totally.

892
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,959
Speaker 2: I know, you mean, I feel like, yeah, like I'm

893
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: more so when I'm writing, I'm I'm going back to

894
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: old episodes and looking at like sometimes you see old

895
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 2: things in old episodes of the script where you're like, wow,

896
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: there's just a remarkable amount of like continuity. Not in

897
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: an easter egg way, like it doesn't feel like they're

898
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: like trying to plant some like seed that is not hacky,

899
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: but but it is interesting to see like the things

900
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 2: that kind of carry through. And I'm like, just even

901
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: in the context of like the Frank Jerry Carl stuff

902
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: like you when you go back, you realize, oh wow,

903
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: it was pretty early on that. You know, they try

904
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: to like appoint her CEO like in episode two and

905
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: it's when Logan has just had like a brain hemorrhage

906
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: and she's like the job that makes people's head explode,

907
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: Like I don't want that. Yeah, interesting, and you just

908
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: start to like realize these things have kind of been

909
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 2: in motion for longer than you'd like realize, right right, Yeah,

910
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: I mean, like I don't know, I could also see

911
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: it being that Kendall really does sort of win, but

912
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: what is winning even mean, and that he sort of

913
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: just continues on like his father's ways. It's like, is

914
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 2: that even a good thing? You know, Like it's just

915
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: kind of depressing.

916
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, so much as this last episode was

917
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: them trying to imagine, like clearly it's like trying to

918
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: imagine what their father would be doing or what he'd

919
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: be like or and and trying to execute in a

920
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 1: totally shitty, stupid, like misguided way. Right. Yeah, I mean,

921
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: the Kendall thing is so interesting because like this last

922
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 1: episode was triumphant for him. He seemed like he was

923
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: like you know, on draw Uggs and was like hatching

924
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: these crazy schemes and was going to like tank the

925
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: company and tank the deal and blah blah blah. And

926
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: but then everybody's like, oh, look, people really like this,

927
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: Like you did a great he's doing a great job,

928
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: Like this is really good, and it's sort of like, oh,

929
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: he's emerging as a capable leader or whatever. I mean.

930
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 1: One thing I did respond to, I have to say,

931
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: is in the scene where he does his like keynote

932
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: speech or whatever, where he starts talking about living plus,

933
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: which incredible, by the way. Whoever is responsible in that

934
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: writing writer's room for the concept of Living Plus as

935
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: a real I mean to me, it feels exactly like

936
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: something that one of these companies would introduce, no question,

937
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: Like it is directly from the playbook.

938
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: And like it's so perc how Manton is just like

939
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: cuts right through the right through it. But even after

940
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: he's done that, you're still watching the presentation like huh

941
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: and yeah, like I could see that this is like.

942
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: Actually kind of a good Like it's like it's yeah,

943
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I can see a large company going like

944
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: we're creating these like amazing homes that they're going to

945
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: be like high security. I mean, think about like these

946
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: gated communities in all these different places. Like if you

947
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: could sell that package that like an apple product or whatever,

948
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: I think there is a one hundred percent of market for

949
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: that and so yeah, and so they captured that perfectly.

950
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: But then he starts going into like all this weird

951
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like life extension stuff, and then

952
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: you know the part of that scene is they're like, oh,

953
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: like you know what it's The response is pretty good,

954
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: like we're seeing some good tweets about it or whatever,

955
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: and it's like you've been to events like this, if

956
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: you've been to one of these like corporate events when

957
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: the like when the Elon musker whoever gets on stage,

958
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: it starts talking shit. Like whatever they're talking about, they

959
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: are just so full of shit most of the time,

960
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: just absolutely whether it's made up on the spot or

961
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: it's from a script or whatever, Like there's so much

962
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: of it that is just complete horseshit, and it is

963
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, often sort of bought by the public, you know,

964
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: hook line in synchro. And I was like, oh, this

965
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: is like they're really capturing both the fakeness of the

966
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: whole thing and also how easy it is, Like that's

967
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: you were saying, Like even though you heard him like

968
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: hatching this stuff at like two in the morning or whatever,

969
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: you can see how you can so easily be drawn

970
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: into it as a concept. You go like, yeah, like

971
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: that seems workable, Like that seems doable, Like I believe

972
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: in that.

973
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's like meanwhile, I'm there and it's like,

974
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: why can't we cancel this precision because it's already on

975
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: the calendar. It's just one more product. And then like

976
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: to your point, it's whoever is coming up with this stuff,

977
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: it's like the same that we here for you in

978
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: the last season, like exactly the same example. It was

979
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: so perfect of just like.

980
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: That yeah he is, Oh my god, it's it's incredible writing.

981
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: And also I think like that one of the talents

982
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: of the people who write this show, you know, not

983
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: to just like hit them with so much praise, but

984
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: like they just are really good at picking up what

985
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: is very real about this stuff and kind of like

986
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: just putting that unvarnished on display. And that's what I

987
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: find I think why I'm so drawn into, like particularly

988
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: the season, because there's so much of the window dressing

989
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: that they're kind of showing so much of like the

990
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: products and the way that these companies actually sort of

991
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: like present their image to the world. Like the whole

992
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: thing about like you know, doing like bad press about

993
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: his dad. Now he wasn't really like you know, in

994
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: with it, and they were kind of leading, you know,

995
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: secretly or whatever. I think that just feels like all

996
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: the artifice kind of pulling back and seeing how the

997
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: sausage is made for lack of a better term, Okay,

998
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: so is she going to keep the baby?

999
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: Yes? I think so. One thing I was trying to

1000
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: figure out is like if Tom even knows that she

1001
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 2: was trying, like, I mean, obviously, I guess I don't know, Like,

1002
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: what does Tom think is happening?

1003
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: Right? Is it Tom's? Do we think it's Tom? It

1004
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: could not be Tom?

1005
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: I guess that is some people, Yeah, some people do

1006
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: think that, like.

1007
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: Right, maybe Also people were talking about the fall, like

1008
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: maybe something's going to happen, like because she fell at

1009
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: the at the wake or whatever. So a bunch of

1010
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: people mentioned that to me, Like I was talking about

1011
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: it with maybe Laura said something about it, and then

1012
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: somebody else I was talking to said something about it,

1013
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: like and I was like, oh, yeah, I hadn't thought

1014
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: of it. I thought it was just like she was

1015
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: just flustered and tripped or whatever. But I don't know,

1016
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: it's start Yeah.

1017
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 2: No, And I guess what's weird is that if it is,

1018
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: if they really, if there really are just a few

1019
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: days that have gone by, like it could still like

1020
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: that ball was only a couple of days ago, which right.

1021
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: I mean a lot's happened in five days or whatever, right,

1022
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: Like her and Tom were total enemies like five days ago,

1023
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: and now like they're back in some kind of weird

1024
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: you know, death biting like romance. Yeah, Bidey. I don't

1025
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: know that game I'm not familiar.

1026
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: With, but they Yeah, I grew up doing a lot

1027
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: of weird you know, rope burns and all that, but

1028
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 2: Bidy was not in the in the arsenal.

1029
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Biddy's very strange. It's interesting you mentioned like how

1030
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: they have no friends and stuff. The thing with Kendall

1031
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: has a family, like this is the thing that I

1032
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: every once in a while, I'll remember Kendall has like

1033
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: several children, like at least two, right, and like a

1034
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: for an ex wife, and they don't exist in his

1035
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: world like at all. I know, like they're not there.

1036
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 2: And it's strange because we have seen them existing in

1037
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: his world, Like it's not like I don't know if

1038
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: you're familiar with sort of the Roman, like in season

1039
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 2: one he had there was a woman named Grace who

1040
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: watching it at the time you kind of thought was

1041
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: maybe his wife. And there's a daughter, but you know

1042
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: they've said, oh, it was just a girlfriend and their daughter.

1043
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: But then he's also wearing a wedding ring, so real storyline. Yeah,

1044
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: if you go back to season one, like the first

1045
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: couple episodes and that storyline kind of got written.

1046
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: Out, Oh wow, Okay, I remember vaguely like a girlfriend

1047
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: or something.

1048
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, and like I always just assumed it was

1049
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 2: a girlfriend that had that had a child and it

1050
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: wasn't his child, and I and I sort of think

1051
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: that's what they have, like like RT cond it into.

1052
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 2: But people have pointed out, no, they're wearing wedding rings.

1053
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: And but I say that to say that, like, I

1054
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: think they sort of pushed that away and obviously did

1055
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: it well because I think a lot of people haven't

1056
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: really thought about it since in order to give Roman

1057
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: like more freedom to you know, develop his character, and

1058
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 2: you can kind of see the constraints or black theo

1059
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: with Kendall in the sense of that you do sometimes

1060
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: think about, well, wait, wait, what about when he was

1061
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 2: kind of hanging out with his kids a lot and

1062
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: taking them to birthday parties?

1063
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: I mean he did I guess he took them to

1064
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: uh he took them wherever they were in Rome or

1065
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: something is when.

1066
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: He yeah, they were like in the pool. Yeah, he

1067
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: was like the poor kids come to Rome and see

1068
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 2: their dad like floating face down on the pool, and

1069
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: they were.

1070
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: Like side character. I mean they're like you know, you know,

1071
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: props or basically it's.

1072
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 2: Seemed like his ex wife is doing well. She seemed

1073
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: to have a you know, she seems like she's kind

1074
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 2: of living her best life.

1075
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: So okay, I don't I have no recollection of what

1076
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: last time when you even saw his ex wife, Like

1077
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: when do we see her?

1078
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 2: It was I'm pretty sure last season at the beginning,

1079
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: he has like a like an operational thing set up

1080
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: in her apartment.

1081
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, right, like his like his like social

1082
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: media team is there.

1083
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 2: And I think she even has like a new man yeah,

1084
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: because I think she kicks him out once because she's

1085
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: like her I forget the guy's name. He has like

1086
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 2: a meeting early in the morning or something. But I

1087
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: was like, okay, good, she's doing well. There was a

1088
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: time where I was thinking, oh, I could see it

1089
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: ending with you know, shive whatever it is like with

1090
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: this baby being somehow important because it's the next generation.

1091
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: And then I was like, wait, there already is a

1092
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: next generation, right iverson, He's right there, right there, yeah.

1093
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: Right exactly. Oh god, the daming so perfect. It's the

1094
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: Kendall construction of that character is just like incredible. You're

1095
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: writing on it, and the insight is just so interesting

1096
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: and everybody should read your stuff. It's all all of

1097
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: it's at the Ringer, right, there's.

1098
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 2: Nothing nowhere else.

1099
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you've got four more episodes to watch

1100
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: and observe and write about. Are you going to are

1101
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: you going to feel like? Is there going to be

1102
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: a sadness when Succession ends? Are you preparing for it?

1103
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: I think you know what, I think there will be, like,

1104
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: especially you know, because I've been writing about it, I've

1105
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: been going back and watching these old episodes and I

1106
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm now starting to see it as this sort of

1107
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: big work of art as a unit, and it's just

1108
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, I love this and I just think

1109
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 2: it's brilliant. That said, whenever someone says I don't like it,

1110
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 2: I'm like totally get you. I'm not going to even

1111
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: try to convince you. You know, if you haven't liked

1112
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 2: it by episode six of season one, like you're done right. Yeah,

1113
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm not going to start liking it, but anyway, like

1114
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: I will be sad. I respect and admire the decision

1115
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: to stop it after four seasons, Like that's a pretty

1116
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: cool creative choice. And Jesse Armstrong has obviously shown that

1117
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: he has you know, really good tastes and really good sensibilities.

1118
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: I was joking like they should do some sort of

1119
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 2: procedural spin off where you know, there's some investment banking

1120
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,399
Speaker 2: firm that you know, and all these people are coming through.

1121
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 2: That's kind of like the Good or something like that.

1122
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 2: You've got these recurring characters.

1123
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: No, they should do a spin off with the Emperor Penguins.

1124
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: They should be about those characters and like their lives,

1125
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: like what's going on at home with those characters? I

1126
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: have no idea.

1127
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 2: Well, and it's funny because having interviewed them, they say

1128
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: like they kind of have no idea either, which is

1129
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: so funny. Like Peter Friedman, who plays was saying that

1130
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: sometimes when there's little nuggets in the script about Frank's past,

1131
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: he doesn't know if it's real or not because he

1132
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: doesn't know if it's just the characters like roasting him

1133
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 2: or actually based on like the no bable of who's

1134
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: he exactly, like, right, who's Frank? Yeah?

1135
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: Right, that's amazing, that's incredible. Yeah, No, I mean I

1136
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: spin off potential. I mean that's I don't know. I

1137
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: don't know. This feels like a CAP's like a time

1138
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: capsule to me, like this feels like one of those

1139
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: shows like that if it ends, you know, it's season

1140
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: four and that's it. It's going to be perfect. It's

1141
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: going to be like what it needs to be. These

1142
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 1: aren't there's no like you said earlier one time, there

1143
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: isn't some big explosive drama that's happening. It's actually like

1144
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things, it's a small story.

1145
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: It's like, who's going to run the old man's business

1146
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: when he kicks the bucket? Is really the question? Right,

1147
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: Like that's all it is.

1148
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: It's funny, Yeah, the number of freaking investor meetings they

1149
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: have had, you know that it's which is true to me,

1150
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. It's just funny that they just basically like

1151
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 2: mark time through Logan's birthday and investor meetings and like

1152
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: that's that's the whole life cycle of succession.

1153
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: These days, the show's called succession. Do you believe we

1154
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: will witness a succession? I mean we've sort of I

1155
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: guess we have this like co CEO situation. So but

1156
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: it all feels like it's very impermanent, Like everybody's kind

1157
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: of like, well, it's just you're just kind of keeping

1158
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: the seat warm. Until like Mattson shows up to break

1159
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: the company apart or whatever final prediction. Does Matson buy

1160
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: the company, sell it off for parts that do the

1161
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: kids ultimately keep it?

1162
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, like, I think he buys it

1163
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 2: and sells it off for parts. I think I could

1164
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 2: see them going with a a not neatly wrapped up

1165
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: satisfying conclusion. I don't know if it'll be that particular one,

1166
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 2: but like, but that idea feels interesting to me in

1167
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: a way that I could see them playing with it.

1168
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: Interesting interesting. I'm going to say, since you know, I

1169
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: might as well answer question. I think, you know, it's

1170
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: got a real kind of no exit thing going on,

1171
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 1: Like I think it's possible, like they're in a room

1172
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: in hell together, you know, like that, and then and

1173
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: that's the room they're going to be in for the

1174
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: rest of their lives, like constantly warring over this, like

1175
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: inconsequential bullshit that only matters to them, and only matters

1176
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: for reasons that are like this is the kind of

1177
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: esoteric like sentimental pride and shit, you know, just like

1178
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: weird sort of like familial stuff, you know, like or

1179
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: cousin Greg is going to become somehow b CEO. I

1180
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: think there's a possibility that just for some reason, somehow,

1181
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: like his dad is the actor's still alive, right, who

1182
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: plays his dad?

1183
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: Believe?

1184
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: So so weird question to ask it. So yeah, it's

1185
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: like James Cromwell, yes, who is also has a great

1186
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: character arc in Six Feet Under, one of the greatest

1187
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 1: television dramas of all time.

1188
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: So funny because I was just about to reference Six

1189
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 2: Feet Under in the sense of I'm thinking of the

1190
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 2: finale where you see Billy and uh, what's the what's

1191
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 2: the women's saying I forgot his sister Brenda Billiam Brenda

1192
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: and it's like there, all these years later, they're still

1193
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 2: together bickering and he's just like talking at her and

1194
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: she's so bored, and like I love that. Yeah.

1195
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: The Six Feet Under ending is I think iconic and

1196
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: like just so over the top and it's like taking

1197
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: it to its logical conclusion, like just unbelievable. Like Laura

1198
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: actually introduced me to that show. She had watched it.

1199
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, we have to watch it,

1200
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: and I was like just absolutely devastating.

1201
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: Made the crossover between the two shows, right, Yeah, it

1202
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 2: would be funny to imagine the logan episode of Six

1203
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 2: Feet Under. You know, the opening scene of him in

1204
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: the aeroplane bathroom.

1205
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: No, that's a great idea, that's amazing. Well, his death

1206
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: is very six feet Under. I mean a lot of

1207
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: that show is like people dying in the most stupid

1208
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: or mundane ways, because that is what happens, right, like, like,

1209
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, what is the story, Like Tom says, he

1210
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: was like trying to fish his iPhone out of the toilet.

1211
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: That Carl clogged. He says, by the way, which I

1212
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 2: didn't even hear until I watched it like the third time.

1213
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: Such an unglamorous, sad, little death for such a big man.

1214
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: And that is like and that's sort of like it's

1215
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: a interesting fuck you, Like he didn't die in some

1216
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: heroic yeah, or even like I don't know.

1217
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: Emotional like yeah, final goodbye.

1218
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, just that, but like death, I mean that was

1219
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: I actually thought that episode. Sorry, I know we keep

1220
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: going down rabbit holes, but I thought that episode was

1221
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: one of the finest depictions I've ever seen of what

1222
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: it's really like to get bad news, like the way

1223
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 1: the bad news, not the whole thing, because I actually

1224
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: thought they went on a bit long with the with

1225
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: the whole like kids find it out thing, It just

1226
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: felt like it took a little longer than needed to.

1227
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: But I was like at the end of it, I was like,

1228
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, I think they could have edited down, like

1229
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of that could have been edited straight out

1230
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: and it would have been fine. But the way the

1231
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: news is communicated and the call comes through and that

1232
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: whole thing is like, I'm like, this is exactly what

1233
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: it's like when somebody tells you that somebody has died.

1234
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 1: This is the exact feeling, and this sort of like

1235
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: the way it like sounds when you're listening to them

1236
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: on the phone, or when you know, if you're listening

1237
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: to somebody get the news or whatever. Anyhow, we got

1238
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: to wrap up, Katie. This has been so fascinating, not

1239
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: only the succession talk which is Lee, which was like

1240
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to get into and it was desperate to

1241
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: get into because I really was hoping to do this

1242
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: kind of stupidly detailed exploration with you. So I'm glad

1243
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: that we did it, but like the what a fascinating,

1244
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: Like You've had such a fascinating career and like I

1245
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: had no idea what a long strange trip it had

1246
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: been for you to the world of journalism, and is

1247
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: this it? Are you done? You're not going to go

1248
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: back to Goldmen or anything.

1249
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: Who knows if they'd ever have me back? But no.

1250
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm it's been funny like writing about Succession

1251
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: the last few months, and I'm like, this is kind

1252
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: of silly, but also kind of nice. This has become

1253
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: like my mini beat for a little while here.

1254
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: With your background, I would imagine there's a lot of

1255
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: like material there from those like that World of Money

1256
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: that would be really anyhow, this is great. You got

1257
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: to come back and we got to do this again.

1258
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: You know, we should talk about the show Industry or

1259
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: something down the road. I don't know if you've ever

1260
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: watched that show.

1261
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting our industry.

1262
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 2: I have.

1263
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: I have watched so Industry. I have watched alone because

1264
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: Laura hated it. When I'm like alone in front of

1265
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: the TV and I want to watch something, that's one

1266
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: of those shows that I've put on because i know

1267
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: Laura won't watch it with me and doesn't care about it.

1268
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, I'm not going to like try

1269
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: to you know, because I'm not going to watch, you know,

1270
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: an important show. Yeah, he's interesting. It is definitely in

1271
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: the family.

1272
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: I thought season I like season two a lot better

1273
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: than season one, and now I'm they've like hooked me

1274
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: a little bit more than I is it?

1275
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: Are they continuing to make Industry? Is that going to

1276
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: be a show they're getting? Yeah?

1277
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 2: So season three there I think filming now? And the

1278
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: guy that what's the guy the guy from Game of Thrones?

1279
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,479
Speaker 2: You know nothing, John Snow, John Snow.

1280
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: Isn't it John's coming to industry? It's just John Snowe's

1281
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: coming to industry would sell a lot, put a lot

1282
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: of asses in seeds. Actually, all right, fine, maybe I'll

1283
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: finish season two of Industry and then and then we'll

1284
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: have talk about it. Or maybe I'll watch all of

1285
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: Yellowstone on a Blu ray box set and and give

1286
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: you my take on What was the character you mentioned?

1287
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: What was her name?

1288
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 2: Oh, Beth Button, Debbie Boone or you'll see Debbie Boone.

1289
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: That's actually her.

1290
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: That's what that's a person, that's a verse. What did

1291
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: you do do this her day?

1292
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 2: That's her character's day, that's her characters? Da am I?

1293
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know. Here's the thing about Yellowstone. Sorry,

1294
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: I know we're just so over time here, but like

1295
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know when it's set. Like in my

1296
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,479
Speaker 1: mind it's like a Western set in the old days.

1297
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: But it's not, is it.

1298
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 2: It's a modern got to like go on the journey

1299
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 2: for yourself. I guess you want to tell me.

1300
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: There must be some shows that are not set in

1301
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: present day because they're called nineteen twenty three three? Okay, good,

1302
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: all right, Well listen, this is great. You got to

1303
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: come back. We're going to talk about industry, We're going

1304
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: to talk about Yellowstone, and then some secret third thing

1305
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: that has yet to be put on television yet, and

1306
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: we're going to have a long conversation about it. Thank

1307
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: you so much for doing this.

1308
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it you as well. Thanks for having me.

1309
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: Well that is our show for this week. I mean,

1310
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: I think there's a good chance I'm going to be

1311
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: discussing Succession after next week's episode, and so just going

1312
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: to be filling this the next one with huge spoilers

1313
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: about whoever is going to die next that show. But anyhow,

1314
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: we'll be back with more what future, And as always,

1315
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: I wish you and your family the very best